OKC Tank 2007-2009

[Millennial_Messiah]

Landed them Kevin Durant (best of the three obviously), Russell Westbrook, and James Harden, back-to-back-to-back.

The Thunder, in Durant's second year and Westbrook's rookie year, started the season 3-37 and got PJ Carlesimo fired.

It wasn't until 2010 when the core of Durant, Westbrook, rookie Harden, Ibaka, Thabo, Jeff Green etc (they hadn't made the Perkins trade yet)... that they took off and went from below .300 to 50-32.

Even when you draft an otherworldly franchise, god-tier talent... It takes time.

This isn't Tim Duncan being drafted onto a veteran-loaded playoff team that wasn't a playoff team for one season because of injuries. This is a ground-up rebuild featuring a new class of young talent.

It takes time... I'd say 3 years, counting this year.

[Mugen]

That bit about Carlesimo getting fired is encouraging. Hopefully history repeats itself.

[NASpurs]

I trust Presti more than Brian Never Wright :lol

[Russ]

I trust Presti more than Brian Never Wright :lol

Hopefully Wright won't get a Big 3 and then lose each of them.

[Mugen]

Hopefully Wright won't get a Big 3 and then lose each of them.

Wright won't come close to drafting 3 MVPs tbh :lol

[scott]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.

[FutureMan]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.

Lottery picks does not a tank make. You proved his point IMO.

Interestingly enough Durant, Wembys idol, had a losing streak of 13 in his first year. He still won ROY though.

If this is the plan let’s hope it doesn’t last 3 years and the Spurs are able to get this done in two.

[John B]

A lot of ST posters are either fair weather fans or trolling. It’s not worth explaining

[BatManu20]

Wright won't come close to drafting 3 MVPs tbh :lol

Remember when we drafted Primo over this guy :lol

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[NASpurs]

A lot of ST posters are either fair weather fans or trolling. It’s not worth explaining

You should probably explain how this organization is playing chess while others are playing checkers first. :lol

[John B]

You should probably explain how this organization is playing chess while others are playing checkers first. :lol

As I said, it’s a waste of time :lmao:lmao:lmao

[J_Paco]

A lot of ST posters are either fair weather fans or trolling. It’s not worth explaining

Pretty much this.

People here act like drafting Wemby alone was gonna make them a 'winner' again, and now that that isn't happening they are losing their minds and shit talking ad naseum.

The team is probably still 2 or 3 years away from being good and the Durant - era Seattle Sonics/Oklahoma City Thunder comparison is apt. Hopefully the Spurs ownership won't cheap out if they strike gold (which is needed) in the next few drafts.

They literally only have 1 top five pick (of their own) on this entire roster but somehow they were gonna be a playoff contender. Yeah right. :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Budkin]

Landed them Kevin Durant (best of the three obviously), Russell Westbrook, and James Harden, back-to-back-to-back.

The Thunder, in Durant's second year and Westbrook's rookie year, started the season 3-37 and got PJ Carlesimo fired.

It wasn't until 2010 when the core of Durant, Westbrook, rookie Harden, Ibaka, Thabo, Jeff Green etc (they hadn't made the Perkins trade yet)... that they took off and went from below .300 to 50-32.

Even when you draft an otherworldly franchise, god-tier talent... It takes time.

This isn't Tim Duncan being drafted onto a veteran-loaded playoff team that wasn't a playoff team for one season because of injuries. This is a ground-up rebuild featuring a new class of young talent.

It takes time... I'd say 3 years, counting this year.

How dare you bring logic and reason to a SpursTalk thread!

[exstatic]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.
All lottery picks are not the same. Their big 3 were picks 2,3,4. Our picks were 10,11,9,1. If you ever read any analyses of NBA draft pick values, it drops off a cliff,in the aggregate, after pick 5.

[spursparker9]

Remember when we drafted Primo over this guy :lol

1726834316226056686

Mini Jokic tbh. His playing style

[Fireball]

OP is right, but that still does not explain why this team seems way worse than last years team. Perhaps having Poeltl for half the season is a difference maker, but otherwise its a bit mindboggling that we get blown out so often this early in the season.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.

We're in 07-08. Last year in Seattle, I guess. We haven't drafted the 2nd or 3rd piece yet.

As long as Ray Allen was still on that team, the team wasn't truly tanking, it just had bad surrounding pieces, bad coaching etc. The 50-32 year in 04-05 was Ray Allen's best career year and they had flukish performances from everyone else and got a lot of luck along the way. It was Rashard Lewis's best career year and only all star year as well, IIRC. The Ray Allen trade and letting Lewis walk to Orlando, much like the Spurs dealing Murray and White, sealed the tank for that franchise.

Someone like Muhammad Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick is indeed analogous to some of the similar nobody late lottery picks we've gotten lately that probably won't be on the Wemby core team when we're competing for titles in a few years with Wemby and a couple other stars not yet on the team.

The Spurs not bottoming out a few years ago instead of last year cost them and us, the fans, a few years, sure... but it also granted us Wemby and the right to tank 2 more years for our equivalents of Westbrook/Harden.


OP is right, but that still does not explain why this team seems way worse than last years team. Perhaps having Poeltl for half the season is a difference maker, but otherwise its a bit mindboggling that we get blown out so often this early in the season.
It's simple, Sochan the point forward is a disaster and ultimately he's going to be the Jeff Green of this team. Not a bad player, but dealt for a better chess piece when the time is right.


Wright won't come close to drafting 3 MVPs tbh :lol

Struggle Westbrook only won MVP on the merit of stats alone, and Harden is a career playoff choker since he's been the alpha, so there's that.


Look at today's Clippers? At least we're not the Clippers. They have our home-grown franchise guy from our last title era, they have two of OKC's original big three from their era of supremacy, and they have Lebron's top resistance player in the entire Eastern Conference from the Heatles era, and yet they're still below .500. How???

[Tyronn Lue]

OKC isn't a great example. They in essence didn't win anything except a conference banner but they were in the hunt annually. I don't think anyone serious is expecting the Spurs to be in the hunt. They just expect to see something resembling team building and development of the 1st overall phenom.

[CGD]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.

Drafting late lotto is not the same as drafting 2, 3, 4, and with in the case with OKC. This year should be another shot at another Top 5 pick, which is would really begin a fairer comparison.

[rjv]

The problem with this comparison, is we've already had 3 consecutive lottery picks PRIOR to Wemby.

If you want to compare this with those Sonics/Thunder, then Durant was drafted in Year 2 of a 4 year tank.



In 2004-05, the Sonics went 52-30 and made the conf semifinals.
In 05-06, the Sonics went 35-47 and Saer Sene with the 10th overall pick (who?)
In 06-07, the Sonics 31-51 (under Bob Hill, lolz) and drafted KD #2 overall, and also drafted Big Baby and sent him and Ray Allen to Boston for Jeff Green, Wallyworld and Delonte West.
In 07-08, the last year in Seattle, the Sonics went 20-62, drafted Russ #4, Serge #24
In 08-09, first year in OKC, Thunder go 23-59. PJ Fired after 13 games (1-12). Thunder draft Harden #3 overall, and Rodrigue Beaubois #25 (who?)
In 09-10, Thunder go 50-32, and would make the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years.


If you are comparing to OKC, we last year was year 4 of 4 and we should be competing for the playoffs now. Instead we're apparently in year 1 or 2.


but we also traded away core components of our roster (d white, murray, poeltl and even richardson) when the plan became centered on the prospect of getting Wemby so I think it's not a reach to say that this was actually year 1 of the process as opposed to year 4, or that it's a reboot facilitated by landing the top prize. the spurs were stuck in neutral with no real center piece to build around. OKC had KD on which the rest could be placed around. if we look at the rockets, where are they going? or the pistons? these teams are facing the fate that the spurs are trying to jettison from. neither team has a franchise player. the rockets then went and spent too much on free agents that will, at best, get them into the play in games.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Good reminder that the Sonics sucked during Durant's rookie season. I hope Wemby is aware of their struggles during that rookie season considering he's a big KD guy.

[Mugen]

The only having 1 pick in the top 5 is a valid argument but it really isn't an apples to apples comparison. Victor has infinitely more pressure/spotlight on him than even KD did back then. I think they need to show real improvement early on in Wemby's 2nd year or they're going to be in trouble. And I'm talking being in the hunt for a play-in spot.

[rjv]

Good reminder that the Sonics sucked during Durant's rookie season. I hope Wemby is aware of their struggles during that rookie season considering he's a big KD guy.

yes, i believe they started 3-11 as well. Lebron's Cavs were 4-16 to start the year.

[TDomination]

Remember when we drafted Primo over this guy :lol

1726834316226056686

that pick made me sick

seeing this makes me nauseous

ugh

[TDomination]

Remember when we drafted Primo over this guy :lol

1726834316226056686

my only solace with this is knowing that if everything didn't happen exactly the way it did, we probably wouldn't have wemby. So i'm glad we have wemby but still makes me sick...this pick.

[TDomination]

OKC isn't a great example. They in essence didn't win anything except a conference banner but they were in the hunt annually. I don't think anyone serious is expecting the Spurs to be in the hunt. They just expect to see something resembling team building and development of the 1st overall phenom.

the whole point is showing what it takes to build a contender. the specifics of what happened in OKC once they got to that point are irrelevant because that had to do with their individual decisions (i.e. harden leaving, and the feud between russ and durant).
hopefully we're able to manage our stars better but this is what it will take to get to that level.

[exstatic]

Good reminder that the Sonics sucked during Durant's rookie season. I hope Wemby is aware of their struggles during that rookie season considering he's a big KD guy.


yes, i believe they started 3-11 as well. Lebron's Cavs were 4-16 to start the year.

Spurs “fans” would do well to note this, as well.

[scott]

but we also traded away core components of our roster (d white, murray, poeltl and even richardson) when the plan became centered on the prospect of getting Wemby so I think it's not a reach to say that this was actually year 1 of the process as opposed to year 4, or that it's a reboot facilitated by landing the top prize. the spurs were stuck in neutral with no real center piece to build around. OKC had KD on which the rest could be placed around. if we look at the rockets, where are they going? or the pistons? these teams are facing the fate that the spurs are trying to jettison from. neither team has a franchise player. the rockets then went and spent too much on free agents that will, at best, get them into the play in games.

Fair enough point, though this does provide an extra damning indictment of PAFTO, who spent the proceeding 3 seasons (prior to last season) failing without a plan and only landing late lotto picks. Now it's a 7 year rebuild instead of a 3/4-year rebuild.

I do think it is worth noting that Wemby will have the most external pressure on him since LeBron James to move to a bigger market as soon as he can. LeBron's team generated a winning record in Year 2, and made the playoffs in Year 3. Will Wemby tolerate being one of the worst teams in the league for his first 3 seasons? This is a real risk, especially in the modern NBA and hopefully the FO (and fans) are completely aware of this and have a sense of urgency. Posters here can talk about how Wemby seems like a good kid who doesn't care about that... but you're fooling yourselves. Wemby is a true star who has not just the national, but the global, spotlight on him. He's also only human, and it may not be worth resisting just so he can play for a loser franchise with a rich history.

[rjv]

Fair enough point, though this does provide an extra damning indictment of PAFTO, who spent the proceeding 3 seasons (prior to last season) failing without a plan and only landing late lotto picks. Now it's a 7 year rebuild instead of a 3/4-year rebuild.

I do think it is worth noting that Wemby will have the most external pressure on him since LeBron James to move to a bigger market as soon as he can. LeBron's team generated a winning record in Year 2, and made the playoffs in Year 3. Will Wemby tolerate being one of the worst teams in the league for his first 3 seasons? This is a real risk, especially in the modern NBA and hopefully the FO (and fans) are completely aware of this and have a sense of urgency. Posters here can talk about how Wemby seems like a good kid who doesn't care about that... but you're fooling yourselves. Wemby is a true star who has not just the national, but the global, spotlight on him. He's also only human, and it may not be worth resisting just so he can play for a loser franchise with a rich history.

SA fans will always be worried about a star player leaving, especially since nephew pulled his little stunt but in order to feed this sense of dread, we have to assume that the spurs will continue to be this bad for the next two years. i don't think the spurs have any intention of wasting any more of Wemby's years than they have to. i'd say that they are more likely to follow the path of jordan's bulls (or the magic with shaq until they screwed it up by low-balling the diesel) than lebron's cavs.

i absolutely agree that the spurs seemed to be lacking a plan for a few critical years and made some bad picks in between but i also think that if we had a plan, or if we had drafted a sengun or halliburton instead, that wemby we would have never been positioned well enough to land Wemby.

[scott]

SA fans will always be worried about a star player leaving, especially since nephew pulled his little stunt but in order to feed this sense of dread, we have to assume that the spurs will continue to be this bad for the next two years. i don't think the spurs have any intention of wasting any more of Wemby's years than they have to. i'd say that they are more likely to follow the path of jordan's bulls (or the magic with shaq until they screwed it up by low-balling the diesel) than lebron's cavs.

i absolutely agree that the spurs seemed to be lacking a plan for a few critical years and made some bad picks in between but i also think that if we had a plan, or if we had drafted a sengun or halliburton instead, that wemby we would have never been positioned well enough to land Wemby.

This used to be my thinking as well... but we got Wemby and we're still going to be in a position to "get Wemby" (meaning, have some of the best odds for the top pick) this year. If Wemby himself isn't enough to get you out of Wembyland, then I don't think Halliburton or Sengun would have been.

In any event, it would have been nice for the Spurs to have a plan so that this was the penultimate or ultimate year of the tank, not the 2nd year. But in any event, we are here... and I still think a little more urgency is needed. We don't have go trading for Dame, but I don't think being even worse than last year is going to do the franchise a lot of favors in the long run. I'd rather finish with the 8th pick this year and show some progress than first with the 1st pick again and look like we've regressed.

[Extra Stout]

OP is right, but that still does not explain why this team seems way worse than last years team. Perhaps having Poeltl for half the season is a difference maker, but otherwise it’s a bit mindboggling that we get blown out so often this early in the season.
They are starting Jeremy Sochan at point guard and he is really bad at it. They routinely put up sub-100 point games in a league where 120 is now normal.