Grades: Spurs vs. Clippers - Nov. 20, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/2023-spurs-clippers-grades-14/

A win one of these days would be nice, tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop says he's "totally satisfied with the game". He "saw a lot of good things and the execution and competitiveness were good". :lmao :lmao Somebody take his medicine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ZPeIWy14A

[HankChinaski]

They have looked bad. Growing pains. Still excited to watch games regardless

[Kawhi Duncan]

Wemby needs to play tougher and stop being afraid of contact... It's clear he doesn't have shit bblass IQ, so I think the horrendous shots he takes are a result of:
1. Highlight culture
2. Being afraid of contact (main reason tbh)
3. Frustration

Dude seems afraid to dribble the ball and drive and seems afraid to bang against smalls in the post

[Fireball]

This was Wembys worst game to date tbh ... no effort on either side of the court. he is taking mostly bad shots anywhere on the court because he has abandoned dribbling the basketball to limit turnovers ... no wonder he is getting ignored more and more

[Obstructed_View]

Absolutely unwatchable basketball. Sad to see the team regressing in all phases. Early on they could put up points and dominate with their effort and energy, even if it was just for a quarter. Now they can't do anything right. Standing around in the corner or getting mauled in the paint while nobody passes to him seems to be weighing on Victor. The team stinks at everything, the coaches have no plan and there doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Time to send Victor to Austin to get his joy for the game back. Only half joking about that. The staff has fumbled away this young team.

[z0sa]

After missing Wemby on literally dozens of lobs and open paint throw ins before tonight, I dont blame his lack of effort tbh. Hes fucking 19. Hes hyped as the next Lebron. Pop barely even runs plays for him.

If were going to go 3-79 and lose him after his rookie contract to LA, can we do a lot more 4 down (or 4 up or whatever Vic is comfortable with) please??? Thanks in advance, asshole Pop

[Raven]

I think clippers are a bad matchup for us, they can just score against us without playing well. I think the team is learning well though.

[TheGreatYacht]

Getting outcoached by Ty Lue is a fireable offense, and damn it there’s no one that does that better than Poop

[spurraider21]

After missing Wemby on literally dozens of lobs and open paint throw ins before tonight, I dont blame his lack of effort tbh. Hes fucking 19. Hes hyped as the next Lebron. Pop barely even runs plays for him.

If we’re going to go 3-79 and lose him after his rookie contract to LA, can we do a lot more 4 down (or 4 up or whatever Vic is comfortable with) please??? Thanks in advance, asshole Pop
Part of the problem is he doesn’t “want” to play in the post. He only likes paint points if it’s a lob or free dunk. The other part is pop not coaching him and just letting him pull up for 15+ foot jumpers as his only form of shot creation

[Leetonidas]

This team is abysmal right now. The excitement of having the #1 pick is quickly being drowned out by the clear lack of any gameplan or strategy thus far. Not even looking forward to watching games rn. Tough days ahead for Spurs fan

[Brazil]

All in all, this roster lacks, simply put, talents. Wemby ceiling is off the charts but he is obviously a work in progress. I thought his sole presence would improve drastically the Defense but this is not the case, his length, shot blocking etc... don't translate so far. On offense we are bitching but we are scoring enough to win games, our defense is putrid.

Vassell is a nice role player, Sochan is struggling (we know the story), Collins is a role player, Keldon is meh etc etc... Truth is, outside Wemby, none would be titular in any decent NBA team.

With the Wemby experiment we are even worst than last year. It is what it is.

We have a future potential franchise player and decent role players with one or two with the potential to be good enough starters... Spurs FO and coaches have a lot of work in front of them.

[Brazil]

Just to complement what I was saying, this roster, built as it is, is perfect to tank... that's what Spurs are doing. Now this is ok but we should avoid being humiliated in the process by losing multiple 40 pts game... Losing this bad fucking sucks.

It's a thin line, you want to tank but don't want to be historically bad.

[slick'81]

We're relying on a 19 y/0 surrounded by a bunch of role players:cry its gonna be ugly

[spurs1990]

Pop says he's "totally satisfied with the game". He "saw a lot of good things and the execution and competitiveness were good". :lmao :lmao Somebody take his medicine



Hey let's not be too harsh. As Timvp's review points out in the first line, thanks to this incredible coach, your Spurs slimmed their previous defeat to LA by a whopping 15 points. That's almost a 38% improvement and in only a couple weeks time. A multi multi-year extension is warranted... to suggest otherwise is balderdash

[Mugen]

Again, the Ws and Ls don't matter in general but agree that a W is needed or they risk losing these young guys for the rest of the season.

But man, it's the small coaching stuff that is really indicative of a major problem:
-Guys like Graham and Manu give solid minutes for a a game or two and are banished to the bench the next. When you're on a 9 game losing streak, nobody's minutes should be locked in even if you're stubbornly not moving away from the SL
-Victor was soft as shit tonight and super passive but you have to run a play or two for the kid just to see how he responds.
-The rotations are so set in stone that it feels like a guy has a nice little stretch and is immediately subbed out.

It's a young team so they're going to take their lumps. And the talent isn't there to be a play-in squad.

But it would just be extremely frustrating if I were a player on this team as they're not being put in positions to succeed. Frankly, they're being coddled and enabled and I don't think it's what they need.

[Tyronn Lue]

How many games a season is Victor accustomed to, meaning where is the rookie wall for him?

[Mugen]

Pop says he's "totally satisfied with the game". He "saw a lot of good things and the execution and competitiveness were good". :lmao :lmao Somebody take his medicine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ZPeIWy14A

To me, this reeks of a guy that needs to be careful what he says in the media because he knows he's in very real danger of losing the locker room completely.

Obviously, no sane person would be happy with what they saw last night. But this is actually a pretty interesting response if you're in the get rid of the old man crowd like we are. There's been some cracks in his armor recently, subtle but they're there.

[Dex]

This team is abysmal right now. The excitement of having the #1 pick is quickly being drowned out by the clear lack of any gameplan or strategy thus far. Not even looking forward to watching games rn. Tough days ahead for Spurs fan

Same. I've made a point to watch every game (either live or on replay), but last night was the first time I just turned it off at half and switched to football because you could already see the car heading for the cliff.

Props to timvp for not only taking the time to watch all of these games but also put together a write-up on it. It's borderline masochism at this point.

I'm only watching to see Wemby's progress because Vassell is hurt and everyone else is disappointing, tbh

[spurs10]

Sad to see the regression since the season began. Maybe they are doing some film-watching and it'll help.

[Spurs Homer]

Im enjoying watching this unfold as painful as it may be...

one thing I do notice is that

Spurs fans suck balls.

I have never read such depressing drama queen cliff jumping negative nancy pussy ass fandom as the shit written in these pages to start this season.

Just pathetic fans - shit if I was a player or a coach or mgmt of this team - I would seriously consider moving the team from these shithole fans,

No, im not defending Pop and there are some players who are not ready for primetime and things could be better I know

but jeezus fucking christ - wouldn't it be nice to see some real fans rooting for their team and understanding that this is all a process?

I dont think I have missed more than 5 spurs games total since they moved from Dallas in the early 70's and all I could do at the time was listen to the games on WOAI am radio...

thru good and bad seasons and pining for a title one day...until it actually happened in 99..to the shit teams to the glory days...

I have my criticisms of players and coaches - but this shit i am reading is really just making me think the Spurs should move somewhere - where the fans actually want to be fans of the team and support them.

I guess this is what happens when 5 titles have been won in the past. Entitlement.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Getting outcoached by Ty Lue is a fireable offense, and damn it there’s no one that does that better than Poop
do you follow the NBA only through memes on Twitter?
Lue is a good coach
ignorant people like you belittled Spoelstra when LeBron was in Miami

[ginobilized]

Thanks, timvp!

This team needs a leader and/or playmaker. That player is not on this team. I'm not certain Pop would let someone run the offense if we had that player. The play calling, and lack thereof is a head-scratcher sometimes.

A Josh Giddy type of player would be great. By getting the team more involved offensively, they will play better defense. A 6'8" point guard can also pass over the defense to get Wemby some easy buckets. Such rare birds, but, that would be ideal.

Another thing that is starting to concern me, and I'm not sure I can articulate it exactly is Pop's age vs the team's age. Old coach and young team feels kind of off sometimes. I see defeated body language, confusion and frustration far too often. Maybe I am wrong, and these young players need to be molded with slow, patterned fundamentals and discipline. On the other hand, a younger, more fiery coach that could grow with the team sounds like a better template to me. Pop the teacher is probably good to great. Pop the coach, not so sure. Perhaps, Pop's winning reputation is a major plus to Wemby, at least on paper. All the media attention is going to draw a LOT of heat on Pop as this style of play continues.

Hopefully, I get to SA on Wednesday to see the Clippers pt. 2

[NASpurs]

Im enjoying watching this unfold as painful as it may be...

one thing I do notice is that

Spurs fans suck balls.

I have never read such depressing drama queen cliff jumping negative nancy pussy ass fandom as the shit written in these pages to start this season.

Just pathetic fans - shit if I was a player or a coach or mgmt of this team - I would seriously consider moving the team from these shithole fans,

No, im not defending Pop and there are some players who are not ready for primetime and things could be better I know

but jeezus fucking christ - wouldn't it be nice to see some real fans rooting for their team and understanding that this is all a process?

I dont think I have missed more than 5 spurs games total since they moved from Dallas in the early 70's and all I could do at the time was listen to the games on WOAI am radio...

thru good and bad seasons and pining for a title one day...until it actually happened in 99..to the shit teams to the glory days...

I have my criticisms of players and coaches - but this shit i am reading is really just making me think the Spurs should move somewhere - where the fans actually want to be fans of the team and support them.

I guess this is what happens when 5 titles have been won in the past. Entitlement.

Typical sniffer post with all the sniffer cliches :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This team needs some sort of shot in the arm. This group is about as listless as they come.

Looking at last year, the Spurs at least had some veterans who could lift up these young guys when they were slumping. Josh Richardson did a lot of leading in his time here. This young group needs some of that sort of veteran presence.

I think the rebuild, be it 3 years, or whatever, will still need to result in a competitive team out there on the floor. Last year's group didn't have these sort of games until the tank was in full force. We've had several of these fiascos in the first 15 games of the season.

[Spurs Homer]

Typical sniffer post with all the sniffer cliches :lol

yeah yeah of course

typical negative nancy who is emotional when spurs dont automatically flip the title switch

grow a pair pal

[TDomination]

Part of the problem is he doesn’t “want” to play in the post. He only likes paint points if it’s a lob or free dunk. The other part is pop not coaching him and just letting him pull up for 15+ foot jumpers as his only form of shot creation
I bet Pop is scared of doing to Wemby what he did to Aldridge. Putting him in a box.

so thats why hes letting him free roam. which is dumb

[duncan2150]

The staff is killing this team by doing nothing. The Sochan's experiment needs to stop, just play Jones and Graham....

Why Champagnie is starting ? Mamu disappears after two intersting games ? ..... and a lot of other things.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Will be interesting to see how Victor will react to all this losing throughout the course of this season, I doubt he's lost this many games consecutively in his entire basketball career.

[Chinook]

It's interesting to see how timvp has grown less "sniffy" and more "edgelordy" as these grades have gone on. Pop's kind of got himself a wolf by the ears at this point. Changing away from "experiment" and his plan with Wemby would be seen as a failure of those two players. If he had started off not playing them that way, then he could've made the change later in the year without it ruffling feathers. He does have to manage his credibility with his players at this point, and he's caught between having to admit he was foolishly wrong or hoping it comes out better while bleeding credibility after every failed game. He might think the only way out for the team is through

[JeffDuncan]

Will be interesting to see how Victor will react to all this losing throughout the course of this season, I doubt he's lost this many games consecutively in his entire basketball career.


We could see him “quiet quit” as they call it. Be there, but just going through the motions. Watch for it. He already seems to be doing some of that. And in truth, why should Victor knock himself out for this crapfest?

[Mugen]

It's interesting to see how timvp has grown less "sniffy" and more "edgelordy" as these grades have gone on. Pop's kind of got himself a wolf by the ears at this point. Changing away from "experiment" and his plan with Wemby would be seen as a failure of those two players. If he had started off not playing them that way, then he could've made the change later in the year without it ruffling feathers. He does have to manage his credibility with his players at this point, and he's caught between having to admit he was foolishly wrong or hoping it comes out better while bleeding credibility after every failed game. He might think the only way out for the team is through

Good point tbh.

[rjv]

i thought tre was awful, tbh. agreed on wemby's lethargy (3rd game in 4 nights?). he really made a habit of camping in the corner and seemed to give up when the clippers pushed him off the blocks. i hope he comes back with a greater sense of purpose on Wednesday.

[rjv]

It's interesting to see how timvp has grown less "sniffy" and more "edgelordy" as these grades have gone on. Pop's kind of got himself a wolf by the ears at this point. Changing away from "experiment" and his plan with Wemby would be seen as a failure of those two players. If he had started off not playing them that way, then he could've made the change later in the year without it ruffling feathers. He does have to manage his credibility with his players at this point, and he's caught between having to admit he was foolishly wrong or hoping it comes out better while bleeding credibility after every failed game. He might think the only way out for the team is through


am i missing something here? a simple verb phrase, perhaps?

[cd98]

Pop says he's "totally satisfied with the game". He "saw a lot of good things and the execution and competitiveness were good". :lmao :lmao Somebody take his medicine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ZPeIWy14A

Pop probably hates these continual post game media sessions where he has to explain how miserable the Spurs are playing like it is the golden turd.

[rjv]

honestly, i don't know what i'd say if i was the coach of this team but these could be some: "this is a trash roster. don't expect too much from most of them." "we sucked last year because we traded away a lot of our talent in order to get a generational talent. i can assure you that most of this trash will be gone within the next two years." "collins isn't a starting center talent but who else can i start?" "mcdermott is less athletic than a 55 year old sean elliiott." "i can't make tre jones grow a few inches." "malikli makes james harden look like one of the best defenders in the NBA."

[scott]

I think this team could benefit from some Wemby load management. Give the rest of the players an opportunity to find themselves away from the Wemby spotlight, give Wemby a little bit of rest, and maybe inject a little boost of excitement into the team when Wemby comes back from a day off.

My first reaction to Pop being "pleased" was that he is completely off his rocker, but upon more analysis I agree with the other posters that he's really caught in a tough spot in terms of what he can do with his public comments. Of course, he's only in this tough spot because of his and the rest of the FO's refusal to have a veteran leadership presence on the team.

At some point, Ownership, RC, Brian Wright, whoever needs to come to grips with the fact that Pop needs a little managing too*. You cannot simply let him run wild with this child-like euphoria of just going out and coaching a hapless group of kids like they are the Bad News Bears. This isn't a feel-good summer movie, it's a real business.

I would general consider myself a Sniffer, but even I can see that Pop needs to feel a little heat under his seat.

*What does managing Pop look like? It can look like "hey, we didn't draft Sochan to be a PG, he isn't a PG, and we don't want him being a PG. Stop playing him at PG." or even "You didn't want vets on this team, so we made these roster moves to force you to accept vets on the team. You will make the best of it."

[james evans]

After missing Wemby on literally dozens of lobs and open paint throw ins before tonight, I dont blame his lack of effort tbh. Hes fucking 19. Hes hyped as the next Lebron. Pop barely even runs plays for him.

If were going to go 3-79 and lose him after his rookie contract to LA, can we do a lot more 4 down (or 4 up or whatever Vic is comfortable with) please??? Thanks in advance, asshole Pop
if Wemby asks for a trade, Pop's diksuckers will still be saying, "trust the process, you're not an NBA coach". This man is done and need to be forced into retirement

[spurraider21]

Osman and Bassey were the two best players. and that sentence is a big problem

[Sugus]

He might think the only way out for the team is through

With his military background - is there any doubt? :lol

[Chinook]

am i missing something here? a simple verb phrase, perhaps?

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-only-way-out-is-through-mean

or put another way:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e1/f3/3b/e1f33bde25e9ee10200635d6c9946dcc.jpg

[rjv]

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-only-way-out-is-through-mean

or put another way:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e1/f3/3b/e1f33bde25e9ee10200635d6c9946dcc.jpg

gotcha. i can see that with pop. i guess we'll see how the rotations will look later this season (barring injuries).

[MannyIsGod]

I really wonder if the Spurs are active at all in the trade market right now. They should really be looking to pick up a veteran PG. Letting the one we had on our roster walk is turning out to be a pretty damn poor decision - especially if the young fringe players it was done for are legit this bad. I really wonder what Pop thinks the best care scenario with the Sochan experiment is at this point. Does he really feel there's a chance it just clicks into place with him at point and he all of a sudden looks like an NBA playmaker? Right now this looks so bad that I'm not sure if you stuck with it for years it would work out well and right now I have a hard time seeing him stick with it for another month much less years.

Its honestly impossible to see if guys like Collins or Keldon have a future with Wemby because the system is so atrocious right now that I don't think you can take anything away from these games. I'd feel much more comfortable saying this seasons struggles are the result of a lack of talent if we had anything that resembled cohesive offensive and defensive systems out there. Most of these players have extended time in the system at this point and they still look lost as hell so either we have an incredibly dumb and hopeless roster or this is a coaching issue. I tend to think its the latter.

[sammy]

I think this team could benefit from some Wemby load management. Give the rest of the players an opportunity to find themselves away from the Wemby spotlight, give Wemby a little bit of rest, and maybe inject a little boost of excitement into the team when Wemby comes back from a day off.

My first reaction to Pop being "pleased" was that he is completely off his rocker, but upon more analysis I agree with the other posters that he's really caught in a tough spot in terms of what he can do with his public comments. Of course, he's only in this tough spot because of his and the rest of the FO's refusal to have a veteran leadership presence on the team.

At some point, Ownership, RC, Brian Wright, whoever needs to come to grips with the fact that Pop needs a little managing too*. You cannot simply let him run wild with this child-like euphoria of just going out and coaching a hapless group of kids like they are the Bad News Bears. This isn't a feel-good summer movie, it's a real business.

I would general consider myself a Sniffer, but even I can see that Pop needs to feel a little heat under his seat.

*What does managing Pop look like? It can look like "hey, we didn't draft Sochan to be a PG, he isn't a PG, and we don't want him being a PG. Stop playing him at PG." or even "You didn't want vets on this team, so we made these roster moves to force you to accept vets on the team. You will make the best of it."

First of all, Pop didn't make those moves that idiot incompetent Brian Wright did and these players suck other than Wemby and Vassell! All of these scrubs wouldn't make the G League that's how bad they are! Pop can only coach what he has but I am disappointed on him being satisfied when they stink! Maybe he's looking at who to cut and showcase some of the losers that can shoot/then package them off in a trade for better pieces who knows! All I know is that they're wasting Wemby's talent and the multiple ballhogs refuse to pass the ball to him! Smh

[sammy]

Osman and Bassey were the two best players. and that sentence is a big problem

At least they tried and Bassey was defending the paint unlike gazelle Collins running away from his defender!

[J_Paco]

All in all, this roster lacks, simply put, talents. Wemby ceiling is off the charts but he is obviously a work in progress. I thought his sole presence would improve drastically the Defense but this is not the case, his length, shot blocking etc... don't translate so far. On offense we are bitching but we are scoring enough to win games, our defense is putrid.

Vassell is a nice role player, Sochan is struggling (we know the story), Collins is a role player, Keldon is meh etc etc... Truth is, outside Wemby, none would be titular in any decent NBA team.

With the Wemby experiment we are even worst than last year. It is what it is.

We have a future potential franchise player and decent role players with one or two with the potential to be good enough starters... Spurs FO and coaches have a lot of work in front of them.

This.

Spurs need to really execute adding talent (through the draft) around Wemby, and pulling off one or two big trades to net some quality veterans.

I like a lot of the current Spurs - definitely thought one or two would 'break out' this season - yet clearly this team is in need of (a lot) more high - end talent/prospects and a bigger veteran presence.

The team is gonna have to dip into it's cap room quickly to start filling these glaring holes (PG, 3&D Wing, more veterans).