this play has happened in every game

[playblair]

1727516717092405391

[spursparker9]

Can someone send this to TNT for next week Shaqtin a Fool ???

[james evans]

Sochan was looking Wemby right in the face, THEN turned his back and passed to Collins. I dare someone to tell me I'm lying. He's been doing it all fukin year

[z0sa]

The story of the season thus far, in one play.

[Poolboy5623]

This was the worst one yet. I had to turn the channel for a bit. The Spurs starting pg is not only lacking court awareness, he has none. It's messing with everyone's development, including his own.

[Tyronn Lue]

It's probably not his fault. He's being groomed to look more at Pop for play call than to run the offense based on intuition and court awareness. Pop seems ok with it.

[Chinook]

That's not really that bad. Victor is calling for the ball when Sochan is still in the back court and two or three defenders in the way. Yes, there are passes that can be thrown to score there that would get the ball where it needs to go. But that pass Collins threw to Wemby at the end was a higher-percentage play, and it got broken up. Collins couldn't've thrown the ball higher, because it would've been goaltending for Wemby to catch it. If he threw it away from the camera, it would've been even easier to break up and behind Wemby. If he threw it in the direction of the camera, it would've been a cleaner catch, and it's definitely where the ball should've assuming Collins' man isn't blocking passes in that direction.

Naked lobs are not good passes in most situations. Defenses do know how to rally to stop them. Most lobs you see come from a threat forcing the defender to leave the lob open. While Wemby is unique in a lot of ways, he's not the first really tall player who runs down the court and looks for throws over the top. There are broken plays every once in a while that lead to a guy being wide open. But by and large lobs are guard-initiated plays where the big is reacting to what the ball-handler is doing rather than trying to get into scoring position. Look at some Lob City highlights to see the difference that play and the one above:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-du2aNl89F4&ab_channel=nbaworthy

Or of Tyson Chandler, one of the great lob threats of the beforetime:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y95pLO1T8VQ&ab_channel=SPProductions

I'm not saying there aren't times the Spurs miss good opportunities, and I'm not saying other bigs don't find themselves in positions where they are running down the court calling for passes. My point is that successful lobs are often built on a common theory of mind between the passer and finisher, with the finisher looking for the passer to cue him to start the dive. It's inexperience on his part not knowing when to call his own number. He does it so often that I imagine his teammates sort of tune him out. That's obviously not a good thing, because there are times they should recognize would be good for him to go, and they could talk it out and come to a conclusion. It's inexperience there too. That could be cleared up in a few film sessions, but it doesn't look like the Spurs do those given their continued defensive mistakes. Their lack of an inside-scoring perimeter player hurts too, because they can't force the movement that will allow for clean lobs. Basically no one besides Wemby warrants a double team or even much help, and if you aren't creating help, you don't create the rotations that can get scrambled and lead to easy buckets.

[JeffDuncan]

That's not really that bad. …



Oh, please.

[objective]

Wemby is the best and most generous passer on the team. Who else could one hand dribble into a pass in a fast break?

These other clowns have to see it, process it, and if the window is still open come to a stop to grab the ball with both hands all just to throw it too low.

[Arcadian]

That's not really that bad. Victor is calling for the ball when Sochan is still in the back court and two or three defenders in the way. Yes, there are passes that can be thrown to score there that would get the ball where it needs to go. But that pass Collins threw to Wemby at the end was a higher-percentage play, and it got broken up. Collins couldn't've thrown the ball higher, because it would've been goaltending for Wemby to catch it. If he threw it away from the camera, it would've been even easier to break up and behind Wemby. If he threw it in the direction of the camera, it would've been a cleaner catch, and it's definitely where the ball should've assuming Collins' man isn't blocking passes in that direction.

Naked lobs are not good passes in most situations. Defenses do know how to rally to stop them. Most lobs you see come from a threat forcing the defender to leave the lob open. While Wemby is unique in a lot of ways, he's not the first really tall player who runs down the court and looks for throws over the top. There are broken plays every once in a while that lead to a guy being wide open. But by and large lobs are guard-initiated plays where the big is reacting to what the ball-handler is doing rather than trying to get into scoring position. Look at some Lob City highlights to see the difference that play and the one above:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-du2aNl89F4&ab_channel=nbaworthy

Or of Tyson Chandler, one of the great lob threats of the beforetime:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y95pLO1T8VQ&ab_channel=SPProductions

I'm not saying there aren't times the Spurs miss good opportunities, and I'm not saying other bigs don't find themselves in positions where they are running down the court calling for passes. My point is that successful lobs are often built on a common theory of mind between the passer and finisher, with the finisher looking for the passer to cue him to start the dive. It's inexperience on his part not knowing when to call his own number. He does it so often that I imagine his teammates sort of tune him out. That's obviously not a good thing, because there are times they should recognize would be good for him to go, and they could talk it out and come to a conclusion. It's inexperience there too. That could be cleared up in a few film sessions, but it doesn't look like the Spurs do those given their continued defensive mistakes. Their lack of an inside-scoring perimeter player hurts too, because they can't force the movement that will allow for clean lobs. Basically no one besides Wemby warrants a double team or even much help, and if you aren't creating help, you don't create the rotations that can get scrambled and lead to easy buckets.

It didn't need to be a lob. Just a regular pass would do just fine. Either way, they need to find Victor when he's wide open.

I'll grant you that it's probably harder than it looks on TV to make that pass. Still, any competent NBA player should be able to do it.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol Chinook typing a novel to defend Sochan missing Wemby wide open with no one anywhere near him at the basket

[Mugen]

:lol Chinook typing a novel to defend Sochan missing Wemby wide open with no one anywhere near him at the basket

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Sochan was looking Wemby right in the face, THEN turned his back and passed to Collins. I dare someone to tell me I'm lying. He's been doing it all fukin year
I'm probably about as big a Sochan defender as there is, but he has indeed missed Victor too many times, and it has to stop. That isn't a "point guard experiment" play, it's a "dude is wide open" play. I expect every teammate to complete that pass.

[Splits]

Wemby is still wide open by the time Sochan gets to the 3 point line. He doesn't even need to lob it to him. If he didn't see him calling for it from 1/2 court until he gets to the 3 point line while he is still wide open, that is horrible court vision.

[Chinook]

It didn't need to be a lob. Just a regular pass would do just fine. Either way, they need to find Victor when he's wide open.

I froze the video in the tweet at the three-second mark. I think that's about as wide open as Wemby looks during the whole clip. In NFL terms, that would be considered to be double- if not triple-coverage. That's because defenders react when they see a ball is thrown. The guy folks are assuming Sochan's going to just throw over is Kawhi Leonard, with his gigantic wingspan and who is staring right at Jeremy waiting to step back and interfere with the pass. So I don't think it could've been a regular pass. It had to be a lob, even if it wasn't an alley-oop. So now you have a slow pass floating through the air with Kawhi and PG bracketing Wemby. People are just sitting here thinking "Well obviously Wemby's going to catch that ball and score" on two HoF players. After all, they've never had to guard anyone tall before. But then like three seconds later, Zach tries the same pass folks assumed Sochan could do easily. Wemby he had a chance to catch and score on just George couldn't complete the catch because it wasn't a perfect throw. Collins threw a lob, which gave George plenty of time to interfere with the pass. And remember, it couldn't be higher without making it goaltending. He would've had to throw to his left to get a clean pass, and Wemby would've had to make a difficult finish over George. Even with that, you can see that Leonard jumps to take away that exact pass.

EDIT because I think folks are talking about this too: George only left Wemby once Sochan turned around. In 2K when there's an omniscient player controlling the action, you could press A and force Sochan to spastically throw the pass to Wemby. But in real life, the defenders are real people who read the floor and react accordingly. They know if Sochan has turned to hand the ball off that he's not going to throw that lob. That's why George was still able to come back and react to the toss that did happen. He was looking at Collins once Zach got the ball and was able to react to the lob Leonard force Zach to make. It turns out guys with extremely high defensive BBIQs and who've played with each other for years can coordinate like that.

It's like I'm in the bizarro world. Wemby's not open on these plays, especially not against a vet team full of big All-Defense caliber wings who've had multiple games to learn how to handle this situation. Yes, there are tiny windows to get that pass in for a quick score. But holy shit, you have a power-forward bringing up the ball. I get he's playing PG, but no one should expect him to make tight passes off the dribble in transition or to be able to insta-teleport balls into his guy's hands because players are allowed to move during a pass. Folks saw the second half of the clip and didn't consider that that was going to happen in the first half of the clip too. That's why I bothered to talk about why you don't see a bunch of lobs against set defenses, but apparently that's a novel. People want things, but they don't want to think about how they would happen. So they're just constantly confused looking at the screen. Basketball is played in all four dimensions, not just two. That's why you need the nuance that the great lob finishers demonstrated in those videos.

[Rito3d30]

Sochan sees it, doesn't mean he's able to pass it.
Even Tre's not able to throw a proper lob to Wemby

Add that to the training routine please FFS

[itzsoweezee]

I froze the video in the tweet at the three-second mark. I think that's about as wide open as Wemby looks during the whole clip. In NFL terms, that would be considered to be double- if not triple-coverage. That's because defenders react when they see a ball is thrown. The guy folks are assuming Sochan's going to just throw over is Kawhi Leonard, with his gigantic wingspan and who is staring right at Jeremy waiting to step back and interfere with the pass. So I don't think it could've been a regular pass. It had to be a lob, even if it wasn't an alley-oop. So now you have a slow pass floating through the air with Kawhi and PG bracketing Wemby. People are just sitting here thinking "Well obviously Wemby's going to catch that ball and score" on two HoF players. After all, they've never had to guard anyone tall before. But then like three seconds later, Zach tries the same pass folks assumed Sochan could do easily. Wemby he had a chance to catch and score on just George couldn't complete the catch because it wasn't a perfect throw. Collins threw a lob, which gave George plenty of time to interfere with the pass. And remember, it couldn't be higher without making it goaltending. He would've had to throw to his left to get a clean pass, and Wemby would've had to make a difficult finish over George. Even with that, you can see that Leonard jumps to take away that exact pass.

EDIT because I think folks are talking about this too: George only left Wemby once Sochan turned around. In 2K when there's an omniscient player controlling the action, you could press A and force Sochan to spastically throw the pass to Wemby. But in real life, the defenders are real people who read the floor and react accordingly. They know if Sochan has turned to hand the ball off that he's not going to throw that lob. That's why George was still able to come back and react to the toss that did happen. He was looking at Collins once Zach got the ball and was able to react to the lob Leonard force Zach to make. It turns out guys with extremely high defensive BBIQs and who've played with each other for years can coordinate like that.

It's like I'm in the bizarro world. Wemby's not open on these plays, especially not against a vet team full of big All-Defense caliber wings who've had multiple games to learn how to handle this situation. Yes, there are tiny windows to get that pass in for a quick score. But holy shit, you have a power-forward bringing up the ball. I get he's playing PG, but no one should expect him to make tight passes off the dribble in transition or to be able to insta-teleport balls into his guy's hands because players are allowed to move during a pass. Folks saw the second half of the clip and didn't consider that that was going to happen in the first half of the clip too. That's why I bothered to talk about why you don't see a bunch of lobs against set defenses, but apparently that's a novel. People want things, but they don't want to think about how they would happen. So they're just constantly confused looking at the screen. Basketball is played in all four dimensions, not just two. That's why you need the nuance that the great lob finishers demonstrated in those videos.

Sochan turns his back to wemby, like he always does, because he can’t handle even the slightest amount of ball pressure. So many mistakes he makes on this play, but not pressuring the basket when you have the advantage like he had there is just unforgivable.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. multiple times in every quarter I see sochan with his back to the basket, on offense! The guy just doesn’t have the skills to be a point guard. Dribbling and ball handling is not something you can teach an adult. You either learn it as a child, or you don’t progress beyond the basics.

[Chinook]

Sochan turns his back to wemby, like he always does, because he can’t handle even the slightest amount of ball pressure. So many mistakes he makes on this play, but not pressuring the basket when you have the advantage like he had there is just unforgivable.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. multiple times in every quarter I see sochan with his back to the basket, on offense! The guy just doesn’t have the skills to be a point guard. Dribbling and ball handling is not something you can teach an adult. You either learn it as a child, or you don’t progress beyond the basics.

Pretty sure I've never said I want Sochan playing PG. He makes mistakes and is put in a bad position. There can be more than one problem with the team.