Attempting To Fix This Mess

[TD 21]

Even when (if?) they draft a PG in the upcoming draft, they shouldn't count on any being day one lead guards; specifically the two I suspect they'll focus on, Proctor and Topic.

They also obviously shouldn't go through another season with some combination of Sochan, Jones and said player attempting to do it by committee.

Instead, target Quickley in a sign and trade with Jones + one of the lesser 1sts.

Then sign Mills (relax, he's a deep bench player at this point) to re-take on the precious role of culture carrier.

Move Sochan back to forward, play Wembanyama more at C and if the Craptors 1st conveys, hopefully address wing and stop selecting non shooters.

[KobesAchilles]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

[BacktoBasics]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

Doc is one of the most overrated coaches.

I also don’t think Quickley is the answer at pg. He’s not really a pg.

I’d look at the Raptors Schroeder as a reasonable target. White or Caruso from Chicago might be available. Rubio might be nearing a point where he’s ready to return as well but he might be fully cooked that this point.

The problem is that vet pgs are in high demand for contenders.
A ready made vet pg and a potential next generation pg in the draft is a good idea.

[Leetonidas]

I'm on board with making a run at Quickley. He can play PG and he feels underutilized in Thibs' system. Seems like one of those guys that goes somewhere else and really takes off in a different situation.

[KobesAchilles]

Doc is one of the most overrated coaches.

I also don’t think Quickley is the answer at pg. He’s not really a pg.

I’d look at the Raptors Schroeder as a reasonable target. White or Caruso from Chicago might be available. Rubio might be nearing a point where he’s ready to return as well but he might be fully cooked that this point.

The problem is that vet pgs are in high demand for contenders.
A ready made vet pg and a potential next generation pg in the draft is a good idea.
Doc is overrated for winning championships. But for getting teams in the playoffs, there’s no better option than him. Dude carried trash Clipper teams to the playoffs. The Spurs just need experience in the dance. And doc can get them there (unlike Pop).

CP3 on a one year 30 million deal will do it for us.

[baseline bum]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

Coc's even worse than Pop. I'd take bible thumping Mark Jackson over him. Tom coaching this team would be worst case scenario.

[exstatic]

Even when (if?) they draft a PG in the upcoming draft, they shouldn't count on any being day one lead guards; specifically the two I suspect they'll focus on, Proctor and Topic.

They also obviously shouldn't go through another season with some combination of Sochan, Jones and said player attempting to do it by committee.

Instead, target Quickley in a sign and trade with Jones + one of the lesser 1sts.

Then sign Mills (relax, he's a deep bench player at this point) to re-take on the precious role of culture carrier.

Move Sochan back to forward, play Wembanyama more at C and if the Craptors 1st conveys, hopefully address wing and stop selecting non shooters.

New York says “Naaaah”.

[exstatic]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

Doc Rivers is one of the worst coaches in history. He survived for 15 years longer than he should have because of one summer’s worth of trades that led to a title he had little to do with.

Hard pass.

[SupremeGuy]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coachPick up Giddy? Sure.
Retire Poop? Definitely.
Hire Doc? Fuck no.
Sign CP3? Depends.
Trade CJ? Depends.
Hire a real shooting coach? Definitely.

[Proxy]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

Doc lmfao

[Proxy]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/131d322d14691b9e021bee85be8dc5d9/tumblr_nfkxp6qj6S1s3gys4o1_400.gifv

[Jordan Jackson]

Trade for Giddey? Hope you don’t have a 16 year old daughter.

Anyway, draft a pg and bring Mills back to babysit the players…and probably Pop too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Be careful what you wish for.

[BacktoBasics]

Giddey isn’t as great as they make him out to be. Can’t shoot, makes a lot of dumb mistakes that are overlooked by one brilliant pass or two a game. He’s a playmaker so I’ll give him that but his career won’t be as widely regarded as it seems. He’s got a long way to go before he’s capable of helping a team ring.

[TekXX]

Just forget about Giddey, that's not who we are and y'all know there's no chance the Spurs touch that.

[Dex]

Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer


:vomit:

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Big no to Doc and CP3.

I want us to improve the 1 spot, just not sure that’s our guy.

[SPURt]

Doc :lol
https://media.tenor.com/XdejzuMfIhoAAAAM/we-haha.gif

[TD 21]

Doc is one of the most overrated coaches.

I also don’t think Quickley is the answer at pg. He’s not really a pg.

I’d look at the Raptors Schroeder as a reasonable target. White or Caruso from Chicago might be available. Rubio might be nearing a point where he’s ready to return as well but he might be fully cooked that this point.

The problem is that vet pgs are in high demand for contenders.
A ready made vet pg and a potential next generation pg in the draft is a good idea.

This nonsense again. If Rivers is constantly criticized (as he has been since '15), then how could he possibly be overrated?

He's not a PG, he's a combo guard. He'd suffice as an interim lead guard, for a team not interested in looking for a heliocentric ball handler (see Murray, White, Primo, Sochan "experiment").

Quickley is the best player (Caruso is comparable, but a worse fit and would cost more, with an extra year under market value) of the bunch and it makes no sense for the Knicks to pay his next contract when he's basically blocked by Brunson and has ostensibly been replaced (long term) by DiVincenzo.



New York says “Naaaah”.

Right now, but as I've alluded to, come the off season it's highly unlikely he's in their plans and highly likely that he'd prefer to be on a team where he can have a bigger role.

[KobesAchilles]

I didn't realize how many people hate Doc Rivers. He isn't a bad coach at all. The dude can improve this team remarkably. He doesn't change us into a contender in any way, but he would fix alot of problems that we do have tbh. Hell I would take a 3-1 blown lead in the second round next year. Rivers adds stability and a voice that players actually listen to. He's like Larry Brown in that sense. Turns a shit team into a good one.

Also CP3 would be a one year rental and would teach our players a lot of things. Just having him that one year in OKC improved SGA and those 2 years in Phoenix improved Booker as well. He is a shitty player to root for I guess, but I can put my own personal feelings aside for the betterment of the team.

Also 16 is legal in Mexico, so Giddy would have a field day in the Mexico City games... ewww

[Spursfanfromafar]

A more realistic fix - move Sochan to PF and maybe sixth man. Trade McDermott and Bassey for Kylian Hayes and James Wiseman. Send Wiseman to the G league or cut him. Start Hayes who has the passing and defense nous but just lacks shooting and fits well with Vassell and Johnson in the wing. If the Spurs are lucky, they might get something good out of Hayes that wasn't possible in the miserable Detroit.

Cut Hayes loose next season if he shows no improvement. But I am sure the Spurs defense gets much much better with Hayes in the lineup.

[TD 21]

I doubt the Pistons would do that and even if they would, I wouldn't bother. The last thing this team needs is another non shooting primary ball handler.

As bad as they are defensively in general, I believe the starters have a defensive rating that would rank 1st in the league.

[Uriel]

Tyrese Proctor would look great in a Spurs jersey.

[Tyronn Lue]

I cannot believe someone is actually saying Doc Rivers is good option. It's something I'd never have bet would be said in sincerity here.

[KobesAchilles]

I cannot believe someone is actually saying Doc Rivers is good option. It's something I'd never have bet would be said in sincerity here.
Man I’m gonna end up sounding like a huge Doc Rivers fan, which I’m not, but so many people here are shortchanging him it’s ridiculous. The dude has won everywhere he’s went. Maybe not championships, and nowhere am I stating he will ring with us, but he would get us to the playoffs.

What argument, besides lack of playoff success (which I’d argue is a dumb one bc the Spurs have the worst record in the west and are nowhere near the playoffs) are y’all so against Rivers? I’d like to hear a good one

[Chinook]

The Spurs aren't really in that big of a mess. It's clear that not ever Spurs fan -- not even those in the "fire Pop" group -- agrees on where this team should be. For me, I'm just fine with them not being very good this year. I am not against a strong move to get better, but I mostly just want them to play the best they can given the guys already on the team. This would be much easier if they had a guy like Wallace in their PG depth chart and didn't have to hope to draft a guy this summer. Even so, Jones, drafted PG and Wesley is a fine enough place to go into free agency. I would like to see them sign an MLE-level guard in the summer to put pressure on Wesley and Branham and to allow Proctor or whomever to grow at whatever pace they need. I really want them to pursue one of the defensive ace wings in the league rather than trying to manufacture one. When Wemby and whoever else are on second and third contracts, getting defense for cheap is important. They can afford to pay for it now. Issue is that the only good youngish perimeter defender on the free agency market is OG, and the Spurs can't be expected to get him. They'll probably have to draft one and then sign a cheaper defender like Covington to coach him up. Then get a legit rim-running center instead of having the Bassey experiment so you can actually figure out what kind of five Wemby needs, and that's basically it.

So for actual players:

Spurs draft:

Natural first: Stephon Castle -- Way too early to know about 19-year-olds. But I like the idea of the team signing a highly productive defender at the position. I mean the hope is that you get Collier or select a star while being able to circle back to a PG with the Raptors pick. But assuming the Spurs pick at like 6, that would be my pick from the extremely little I know.

Raptors first: Bobi Klintman -- Just as not married to this pick, but dude seems a lot like Sochan in that he makes impact defensive plays and passes well. He shot the three okay in college but hasn't so far in the NBL. Say what you want about Sochan, but the Spurs still need a swing defender, so they're going to have to keep taking shots for one.

Seconds: I literally don't care right now. There will likely be some capable players taken there. It's just going to be a challenge fitting them on even two-way spots.

Free agency:

Sign Monte Morris to a two-year deal pretty similar to what Jones got. That gives some continuity in case Tre isn't kept, but also doesn't tie up salary long term for a guy who may not make the rotation. He should make it though because he seems steady. Very strong assist : turnover ratio. Been a plus player on the court for years. A very solid bar for the young guys to have to cross if they want minutes. He's also a good mentor for Jones, who has a lot of the same tools while not being completely actualized. Ideally he helps Castle learn, but the two can play alongside each other off the bench. Dude's hurt right now, but when he's healthy, he might well be a good trade target if Detroit just wants a second or two. His contract is eligible for an extension.

Sign Robert Covington to a one-year deal with whatever cap space is left. He's not what he once was (and was always a budget Danny Green even in his prime), but the dude knows how to play defense and hit open shots, which is extremely important for a Spurs team that doesn't seem able to do those things consistently in general and for Klintman, Sochan and Vassell in particular. He immediately takes Keldon's starting spot and McDermott's roster spot.

Sign Mason Plumlee or Bismack Biyombo with a one year deal at the room exception. These guys wouldn't be on the team to stake their claim, but you need an inside threat rather than more of a stretch-five in order to let Wemby play in that environment to see if that would help him. After the deal was up, the Spurs could make a more long-term move at the position.

Depth Chart:

Jones, Morris, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champagnie
Covington, Johnson, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Sochan, Klintman
Collins, Biyombo, Barlow

TW: I assume those second-rounders and some person no one cares about right now.

That's 16 players. Add in three two-way deals, and that's 19/21 camp spots filled. I'd have no problem with the team bringing in another vet center and wing to push Barlow, Biyombo, Wesley, Camp and Cissoko for their spots. If Castle plays two-guard minutes, Champ's spots in real jeopardy. If he plays mostly at PG, Blake's gonna struggle to make the roster. Cissoko's going to have to show something to hold onto his spot. I think truly instilling the culture of "We don't care that you're young anymore. If you can't play at a high level, you aren't getting minutes and may not even have a spot on this team", would go a huge way in cleaning up this shit on both ends. Yes, Pop is doing a lot of things I believe are wrong, but this the hardest thing to address. I think it'd probably be best for Pop to go, but coaching the way I think would be best isn't that hard. If Pop moves on, the next guy should still be able to do it. Some messes look awful but are easy to fix. The team just needs to be function -- they don't need to be a contender. Just do what you said and evaluate people without doing weird experiments. There's a reason why we all thought this would be an enjoyable season. The pieces are there for just that.

[baseline bum]

Man I’m gonna end up sounding like a huge Doc Rivers fan, which I’m not, but so many people here are shortchanging him it’s ridiculous. The dude has won everywhere he’s went. Maybe not championships, and nowhere am I stating he will ring with us, but he would get us to the playoffs.

What argument, besides lack of playoff success (which I’d argue is a dumb one bc the Spurs have the worst record in the west and are nowhere near the playoffs) are y’all so against Rivers? I’d like to hear a good one

How do you not care about titles with Victor Wembanyama on the team? And how can you want a coach who throws his players under the bus?

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach
1) pedophile should be in jail
2) can you name a couple of candidates?

[AusSpur]

Tyrese Proctor would look great in a Spurs jersey.

Agree, hoping this can happen.

He was rated as highly as Giddey and Dyson Daniels graduating from the Aus NBA Academy. Surprisingly down year at Duke last year but he appears to be figuring it out now.

[Arcadian]

If it makes anyone feel better, I traded Keldon Johnson for Chris Paul in NBA 2K

So everything is fine now!

[Tyronn Lue]

Man I’m gonna end up sounding like a huge Doc Rivers fan, which I’m not, but so many people here are shortchanging him it’s ridiculous. The dude has won everywhere he’s went. Maybe not championships, and nowhere am I stating he will ring with us, but he would get us to the playoffs.

What argument, besides lack of playoff success (which I’d argue is a dumb one bc the Spurs have the worst record in the west and are nowhere near the playoffs) are y’all so against Rivers? I’d like to hear a good one
You seem to be discounting the fact that Doc never had to coach a team. Doc managed personalities of talented players, which the Spurs do not have. Unless you think Doc would change how the front office thinks, I don't see how you can suggest Doc would get this roster to the playoffs. This is the same Doc Rivers who said no to Tim Duncan because he wanted Amy on the team plane.

[BacktoBasics]

This nonsense again. If Rivers is constantly criticized (as he has been since '15), then how could he possibly be overrated?

He's not a PG, he's a combo guard. He'd suffice as an interim lead guard, for a team not interested in looking for a heliocentric ball handler (see Murray, White, Primo, Sochan "experiment").

Quickley is the best player (Caruso is comparable, but a worse fit and would cost more, with an extra year under market value) of the bunch and it makes no sense for the Knicks to pay his next contract when he's basically blocked by Brunson and has ostensibly been replaced (long term) by DiVincenzo.




Right now, but as I've alluded to, come the off season it's highly unlikely he's in their plans and highly likely that he'd prefer to be on a team where he can have a bigger role.
Rivers is constantly referenced as an upper tier coach.

I don't completely disagree about Quickley I just don't think its ideal. But I like him nonetheless.

[KobesAchilles]

How do you not care about titles with Victor Wembanyama on the team? And how can you want a coach who throws his players under the bus?
Meh titles aren’t coming anytime soon. We need a lot for that to happen and I’m not quite sure how to get to title contenders short of Wemby just being Jokic dominant. And even then it took a lot of help for Joker to win. And throwing James Harden or Ben Simmons under the bus isn’t a bad trait to me. They both deserved to get called out for their shit play.

I would like for the Spurs to progress right now. I think Doc brings in an underdog mentality to team that is needed. But tbh it could be another coach. But I’m not too sure who is really out there. In the old days you used to have coaches like Nelson, Adelman, Dunleavy, Brown, who’s could come into a broken situation and fix them. I don’t think there’s anybody really like that anymore. I’m open to suggestions but I think for me Doc is that guy. Would be nice to get Kerr though somehow.

This years draft is very important though and I’m not so sure I want a PG.

[TD 21]

The Spurs aren't really in that big of a mess.

They're theoretically set up well long term with a presumed future MVP caliber player, malleable third option on a good team, draft equity, financial flexibility and tradable mid sized (say $10-20M) contracts, but they currently can't put together a starting five caliber lineup that can function on both sides of the ball.

Your fake team lacks shooting + point of attack defense (Covington was always more of a + help than man defender). Even Morris is low volume/usage + a defensive liability.

My fake team solves a lot of those issues (granted, I didn't pinpoint a wing "stopper").



Rivers is constantly referenced as an upper tier coach.

From about '08-'15. Since then, he's been a punching bag.

[KobesAchilles]

1) pedophile should be in jail
2) can you name a couple of candidates?
A lot of NBA players should be in jail. It’s just not how it works.
Mark Price for me.

[Tyronn Lue]

Meh titles aren’t coming anytime soon. We need a lot for that to happen and I’m not quite sure how to get to title contenders short of Wemby just being Jokic dominant. And even then it took a lot of help for Joker to win. And throwing James Harden or Ben Simmons under the bus isn’t a bad trait to me. They both deserved to get called out for their shit play.

I would like for the Spurs to progress right now. I think Doc brings in an underdog mentality to team that is needed. But tbh it could be another coach. But I’m not too sure who is really out there. In the old days you used to have coaches like Nelson, Adelman, Dunleavy, Brown, who’s could come into a broken situation and fix them. I don’t think there’s anybody really like that anymore. I’m open to suggestions but I think for me Doc is that guy. Would be nice to get Kerr though somehow.

This years draft is very important though and I’m not so sure I want a PG.
You think a team that's lost multiple games by 40 points needs an underdog mentality?

[JeffDuncan]

You think a team that's lost multiple games by 40 points needs an underdog mentality?


I was about to post the same thing. Lol. And if losing ten games in a row won’t give the team an underdog mentality, nothing will.

The reason some guys think they want Doc Rivers is because they only know the names of four coaches.

If the Spurs front office is behaving responsibly - which cannot be taken for granted - they currently have a short list of head coach possibilities. That’s because Pop is old, and also because Pop was going to retire until the Spurs got lucky in the draft. The Spurs had plans to spend last offseason doing what it takes to hire a new coach. Presuming, still, they were behaving responsibly. The preliminary info, for hiring a new coach, will be in a file in the office. Should be.

Anyway, fixing the mess.

A new head coach. Probably a new GM too. As soon as practical.

An honest-to-goodness NBA point guard. This is a desperate need, urgently, to showcase Victor.

Victor is the only draw the Spurs have. The rest of what we’re seeing is a crapfest that has no power to draw anybody.

A serious effort toward fan appreciation. Every single game needs to have something that clearly shows, thank you for being here.

A long list of other needs.

[John B]

Draft a top 10 PG (trade up if possible) for Collier, Castle. This draft is guard heavy. Then sign a a vet PG through trade or FA. Draft a 6’8 3 and D in the 2nd round.

[z0sa]

Current roster, just starting Tre and bringing one of KJ or Sochan off the bench (Sochan as a wing/forward, NOT PG) probably let’s us play .350 ball. Or better than 10 more straight losses, at least. For roster upgrades, I won’t comment - I dont know the financial side well enough to know whether players I’d like in a Spurs uni are actually attainable

[Chinook]

They're theoretically set up well long term with a presumed future MVP caliber player, malleable third option on a good team, draft equity, financial flexibility and tradable mid sized (say $10-20M) contracts, but they currently can't put together a starting five caliber lineup that can function on both sides of the ball.

It depends on what you mean by "can't". If you mean they don't have the ability given their coaching, I don't disagree. But can they function? Yes. It goes back to what I said in my post. I don't mind that they aren't going to win a million games with that lineup. They can be bad for two more years before trading out pieces and trying to contend. My hope is that they lose most of their games from a lack of talent rather than coaching decisions. The point of signing vets to short-term deals is precisely to give them that learning window and to set real bars to measure the improvement. The Spurs' most necessary change is in their mentality.


Your fake team lacks shooting + point of attack defense (Covington was always more of a + help than man defender).

PoA defense isn't a talent thing. Like sure, legit stopping the best teams is much easier with talented defenders. But defense is mental. It's about knowing how to position yourself to funnel your man into help, when to help, double or switch, who's responsible for the help vs who should stay home, when to recover and where your responsibility is based on the previous movement. As I said in my post, the Spurs may well have to draft legit defensive talent or pay out the nose to get it. But a guy like Covington can certainly sit with the youngsters and show them how to read floor action to determine the responses to all of those situations I presented. He wouldn't be there to become the lead defender in a good unit. He'd be there to start to reprogram the young guys and to give them a bar, as I said before.


Even Morris is low volume/usage + a defensive liability.

When the Spurs decide to pivot toward competing/contending, they will looking for a dominant scoring lead guard (assuming they don't find one in the draft). When we're talking about the next couple of years, they just need a guy who can go in there and do his job. To borrow a Spurs saying from the past, no one on the team right now is "solid" besides maybe Tre Jones. Poeltl was also kind of solid, but he's gone now. They need solid pieces around their young guys, preferably older pieces. I would like it even more if it were a role-player who's been on a title team and is just looking to mentor guys but who also has enough left in the tank to execute on the things he teaches. KCP is going to be a free agent, but I don't know if he fits a mold for what the Spurs need. It's just really hard to find guys like that who aren't ring-chasing or who don't require huge contracts.


My fake team solves a lot of those issues (granted, I didn't pinpoint a wing "stopper").

I don't think they should invest in a meh PG, especially given the contract Quickley could command after the trade. Quickley is not an inside scorer. Dude only takes 32 percent of his shots from within 10 feet of the basket this year and was at 33 percent last year. Jones by contrast is at 48 percent this year and 54 percent last year. Morris hasn't played this year, but his career average is around 35 percent, with last year being 33 percent. So Quickley is more like Morris in terms of the things I would value out of a new PG, but he costs way more. Now he's younger and has other strengths, but because I don't see him as the PG of the future, that doesn't matter nearly as much.

I also think the team shouldn't be trying to sign Mills at this stage. A vet is find at a spot that has solid players might might need spot minutes is one thing. Signing him at PG which would leave Quickley, rookie and Wesley (this is assuming Graham is waived) and Patty as the depth chart. That's not a viable rotation unless the rookie is already ready to go (which mitigates the benefit of Quickley anyway), and it's definitely precarious if Quickley has to miss time. Even ignoring the price difference, I'd rather have two Joneses than one "improved" Jones. I'd prefer a star over both, but the right one would have to come available. The closest free agent to meet the criterion would be Dinwiddie, who's not a star but at least until this year was an off-dribble creator who could score from each part of the court but could also set his teammates up. Maybe he takes whatever cap space the Spurs have while the team trades for their wing. But that's a little pie-in-the-sky for me, and it's not like that's a contending roster anyway.

[onechance87]

draft a good pg to pair up with wemby and draft a big who defends and rebounds or a 3 and d small foward

[scott]

What I would do (and maybe it’s a good thing I’m not GM):

1) Move Pop to a largely ceremonial FO role where he can be somewhat involved and mentor but not have a direct impact on day to day basketball Ops. He can say it’s because of health to save face or whatever
2) Hire Becky to inject energy, new ideas and freshness into the squad
3) Trade Keldon. I like Keldon but he is just in the way of progress at this point.
4) Move Sochan to the bench not playing PG
5) do what you can to acquire Jaden Ivey within reason. He can be lead guard this season. Leaves you with flexibility to draft BPA next season bc he can play the 1 or 2

[baseline bum]

What I would do (and maybe it’s a good thing I’m not GM):

1) Move Pop to a largely ceremonial FO role where he can be somewhat involved and mentor but not have a direct impact on day to day basketball Ops. He can say it’s because of health to save face or whatever
2) Hire Becky to inject energy, new ideas and freshness into the squad
3) Trade Keldon. I like Keldon but he is just in the way of progress at this point.
4) Move Sochan to the bench not playing PG
5) do what you can to acquire Jaden Ivey within reason. He can be lead guard this season. Leaves you with flexibility to draft BPA next season bc he can play the 1 or 2

IDK, Ivey's AST/TO is pretty poor and he would probably cost the Spurs a lot.

[scott]

IDK, Ivey's AST/TO is pretty poor and he would probably cost the Spurs a lot.

Im okay with doing everything else and leaving out #5 tbh

[objective]

If GS continues to falter ... I say trade for Chris Paul this year.

Match enough salary to save GS money, and dump that Chicago first that probably will never convey as the Bulls stink and will tank their way out of obligation. Throw in some seconds.

Graham and McDermott for Chris Paul and get a real point guard for half a yeaf

[TD 21]

It depends on what you mean by "can't". If you mean they don't have the ability given their coaching, I don't disagree. But can they function? Yes.


Both, but every realistic permutation (which is really just swapping Jones for either Sochan or Johnson) can't space the floor.


PoA defense isn't a talent thing. Like sure, legit stopping the best teams is much easier with talented defenders. But defense is mental.

Despite the cliched phrase, defense is more a physical talent thing than not.


When the Spurs decide to pivot toward competing/contending, they will looking for a dominant scoring lead guard (assuming they don't find one in the draft). When we're talking about the next couple of years, they just need a guy who can go in there and do his job.

They still need more oomph in the interim.



I don't think they should invest in a meh PG, especially given the contract Quickley could command after the trade. Quickley is not an inside scorer. Dude only takes 32 percent of his shots from within 10 feet of the basket this year and was at 33 percent last year. Jones by contrast is at 48 percent this year and 54 percent last year. Morris hasn't played this year, but his career average is around 35 percent, with last year being 33 percent. So Quickley is more like Morris in terms of the things I would value out of a new PG, but he costs way more. Now he's younger and has other strengths, but because I don't see him as the PG of the future, that doesn't matter nearly as much.

I also think the team shouldn't be trying to sign Mills at this stage. A vet is find at a spot that has solid players might might need spot minutes is one thing. Signing him at PG which would leave Quickley, rookie and Wesley (this is assuming Graham is waived) and Patty as the depth chart. That's not a viable rotation unless the rookie is already ready to go (which mitigates the benefit of Quickley anyway), and it's definitely precarious if Quickley has to miss time.

Let's say Quickley falls in the 4/$90M range; that should be a solid enough contract to have re-sale value. He's obviously not a lead guard on a contender, but he'd buy Topic or Proctor time and if/when they "pop", he either goes back to being an elite sixth man or maybe even a Vassell replacement, if they find a starting 3 and D wing/forward by then. Optionality.

Sure, he's not a rim pressure type, but you can't check every box. He checks a lot though, for what's likely an affordable price (asset wise too).

I just threw out Mills because it seems like something they'd do in this scenario. We're talking about a fifth or sixth guard. If whichever rookie lottery pick can't handle something like 16-18 mpg backup on a bottom feeder, that's not a good sign.

[KobesAchilles]

I was about to post the same thing. Lol. And if losing ten games in a row won’t give the team an underdog mentality, nothing will.

The reason some guys think they want Doc Rivers is because they only know the names of four coaches.

If the Spurs front office is behaving responsibly - which cannot be taken for granted - they currently have a short list of head coach possibilities. That’s because Pop is old, and also because Pop was going to retire until the Spurs got lucky in the draft. The Spurs had plans to spend last offseason doing what it takes to hire a new coach. Presuming, still, they were behaving responsibly. The preliminary info, for hiring a new coach, will be in a file in the office. Should be.

Anyway, fixing the mess.

A new head coach. Probably a new GM too. As soon as practical.

An honest-to-goodness NBA point guard. This is a desperate need, urgently, to showcase Victor.

Victor is the only draw the Spurs have. The rest of what we’re seeing is a crapfest that has no power to draw anybody.

A serious effort toward fan appreciation. Every single game needs to have something that clearly shows, thank you for being here.

A long list of other needs.
Lol I had do to a quick mental note of how many coaches I knew and it was 22. Some of these coaches I’m like who tf are they :lol
My point with the underdog is that when Doc is a front runner, that’s when you’re disappointed with him, but if you look back on certain teams objectively, you see he is a pretty good coach who can reach the playoffs. I still haven’t heard one reason against him other than postseason failure. The dude is a good coach. He isn’t a great coach and won’t ring with us but I believe he could turn the franchise around in the proper direction until we are ready to be a legit contender. And by then I hope we pony up some cash for a real coach.

Also they aren’t getting rid of Wright. That’s a nonstarter. Especially when he’s done a good job. I guess maybe you prefer a college coach bc I don’t know of any young up and coming assistant coaches out there. Maybe you do. But the list is short only bc there aren’t many qualified for the job.

I feel like a SF is still our greatest need. Are there any good ones in college this year?

[Chinook]

Both, but every realistic permutation (which is really just swapping Jones for either Sochan or Johnson) can't space the floor.

Again, it matters what it means to be realistic. Does that mean Graham can't be part of the solution? The Spurs have been a bad three-point shooting team recently. I don't necessary want to get into a conversation about spacing, but their lack of an inside presence doesn't help. The Spurs struggle to score near the basket, so what it means for them to create space is different than it used to be. If Jones is willing to run PnRs and get inside, that'll open up the offense way more than just putting an improved shooter in his place. I'm sure there are stats on it somewhere put it wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs had one of the worst rankings in terms of the quality of their three-point looks.


Despite the cliched phrase, defense is more a physical talent thing than not.

Defense in most sports is about getting bodies in between the scorer and the goal, and offense is in large part about getting bodies away from the scorer so they can get to the goal. It's why giving safety help over the top is so effective in the NFL any why gap integrity is essential to NFL run defense (and why so much of offensive scheming is about running safeties off, running pick plays, creating numbers advantages or looking for holes in zone coverage). It's why running a double works so often in basketball, even when the doubling man is smaller. Yes, having lock down cover corners helps, just as having defensive phenoms would help in NBA ball. But you can get a lot of dribbles picked up in the NBA just by having an average dude who can play the gap appropriately. Remember, we aren't talking about how the Spurs can shut down Lebron in the Finals. We're talking about how they can stop scrubs from getting open shot after open shot. That's not because of physical limitations. It's because of poor technique and constant brain farts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRKrlpyMuk&ab_channel=FilmSession

Until the Spurs get to a point where they're doing these things right, they haven't actually seen the limit of how effective their current personnel can be.


They still need more oomph in the interim.

I'd like for their to be more oomph, but unless the Spurs are going to be legit aggressive, they're probably hoping to find that in the draft.


Let's say Quickley falls in the 4/$90M range; that should be a solid enough contract to have re-sale value. He's obviously not a lead guard on a contender, but he'd buy Topic or Proctor time and if/when they "pop", he either goes back to being an elite sixth man or maybe even a Vassell replacement, if they find a starting 3 and D wing/forward by then. Optionality.

I've never been too into Quickley, but he checks some boxes, as you say later. I don't know if $90M/4 makes sense for either side. But it seems to me like the Spurs could probably get that deal in the summer and give up less in a sign-and-trade. Like they might be able to do like Wesley and two seconds or the Charlotte pick. Keeping Jones would go a far way toward securing the PG spot, and you'd think Quickley could play some with Tre if need be. I know you'd value that "oomph" coming now, but it basically comes down to Jones and the room exception or the MLE and LLE.


Sure, he's not a rim pressure type, but you can't check every box. He checks a lot though, for what's likely an affordable price (asset wise too).

Honestly rim pressure is the only box I'd make any big acquisition for right now. The team's been missing it forever now, and I can't imagine trading any assets. There are some guys who could be on the trade block like Levert, Clarkson, Rozier etc.


If whichever rookie lottery pick can't handle something like 16-18 mpg backup on a bottom feeder, that's not a good sign.

Honestly, it's not a great sign. But there have been good players who aren't quite ready to hold up a big-minute PG role right away. It would be nice to give the Spurs that flexibility rather than having an offense where a rookie needs to run the show right away if an injury strikes. After the past couple of years, I'll take some complaints about a talented rookie playing with the Toros for part of the season rather if it means the people on the court in SA know what they're doing.

[TD 21]

Again, it matters what it means to be realistic. Does that mean Graham can't be part of the solution?

I don't see the point of debating something that they're clearly not interested in doing.




We're talking about how they can stop scrubs from getting open shot after open shot. That's not because of physical limitations. It's because of poor technique and constant brain farts.

Until the Spurs get to a point where they're doing these things right, they haven't actually seen the limit of how effective their current personnel can be.

Not, it isn't because you can't take away everything, which means you have to be willing to live with certain things, like average 3-point shooters shooting 3's that are mostly late contests.

I'm obviously not saying physical tools are everything, but there's a reason most defensive teams have good ones. They can make up for a lot of sins and do things that all the technique and effort in the world can't.



I'd like for their to be more oomph, but unless the Spurs are going to be legit aggressive, they're probably hoping to find that in the draft.

That was fine pre Wembanyama. As one of the GOAT prospects, they'd be fools to go into another season relying on some raw 19-20 year old, in a projected weak draft, being an instant impact player.

Again, not saying put the pedal to the metal, but there is a middle ground here. The team will still be bad next season, but they need to be competitive.




But it seems to me like the Spurs could probably get that deal in the summer and give up less in a sign-and-trade. Like they might be able to do like Wesley and two seconds or the Charlotte pick. Keeping Jones would go a far way toward securing the PG spot, and you'd think Quickley could play some with Tre if need be. I know you'd value that "oomph" coming now, but it basically comes down to Jones and the room exception or the MLE and LLE.

I've said the off season would be far more likely. Quickley upgrades Jones and I wouldn't want two small guards anyway, nor the latter blocking whatever PG they'll probably draft.



Honestly rim pressure is the only box I'd make any big acquisition for right now. The team's been missing it forever now, and I can't imagine trading any assets. There are some guys who could be on the trade block like Levert, Clarkson, Rozier etc.

They've also been missing floor spacing among starters the entirety of this era and we're now into season 9 of it.



It would be nice to give the Spurs that flexibility rather than having an offense where a rookie needs to run the show right away if an injury strikes.

Again, they can sign a Joseph or whoever if it's that big of a deal and they're that out on Wesley.

[Kurgan]

The entire coaching staff needs to be changed first.

Pop, the "yes men" assistants, and that useless fuck who's currently the shooting coach. His claim to fame on youtube is teaching Derrick Rose(31% 3P), Russell Westbrook(30% 3P), and John Wall(32% 3P) how to shoot. Chip is laughing his ass off in OKC.

[Das Texan]

Pick up Giddy at the deadline
Retire Pop
Hire Doc Rivers
Sign CP3 in the summer
Trade KJ
Hire a real shooting coach

Id rather keep Pop if it means getting Doc....

[Kurgan]

Id rather keep Pop if it means getting Doc....

Yeah, Doc wouldn't make a difference. He's not and never has been a rebuilding coach. He's also 62 and just as out of touch as Pop. Spurs need a younger coach that will teach the youngsters. Not hiring Udoka was missed opportunity - guy is working magic in Houston. The Rox may have overpaid for Van Fleet but that's price if you want a competent point guard in this league. Spurs are learning that the hard way with the Sochan experiment.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

The entire coaching staff needs to be changed first.

Pop, the "yes men" assistants, and that useless fuck who's currently the shooting coach. His claim to fame on youtube is teaching Derrick Rose(31% 3P), Russell Westbrook(30% 3P), and John Wall(32% 3P) how to shoot. Chip is laughing his ass off in OKC.
if Chip is such an incredible shooting coach, then why have the Spurs been so bad at shooting 3-pointers the last two seasons with him?
are you even aware that most NBA players train shooting mainly in the summer with personal coaches?

meanwhile
Keldon 32.9 > 35.6
Vassell 38.7 > 40.6
Sochan 24.6 > 38.2

[exstatic]

Man I’m gonna end up sounding like a huge Doc Rivers fan, which I’m not, but so many people here are shortchanging him it’s ridiculous. The dude has won everywhere he’s went. Maybe not championships, and nowhere am I stating he will ring with us, but he would get us to the playoffs.

What argument, besides lack of playoff success (which I’d argue is a dumb one bc the Spurs have the worst record in the west and are nowhere near the playoffs) are y’all so against Rivers? I’d like to hear a good one

If you’re off.loading Pop, and hiring someone else,it’s for the future,not for now,and quite frankly, I don’t want our future to be Doc Rivers coughing up 3-1 playoff series leads. His playoff failures are ABSOLUTELY relevant to the future.

[sfernald]

Let’s hire Derek Fisher as coach and he can bring in the triangle. Wemby can be Pau and Vessel can be Kobe! Sochan will be Artest obviously.

[offset formation]

Seconds: I literally don't care right now. There will likely be some capable players taken there. It's just going to be a challenge fitting them on even two-way spots.

I just want to underscore your point here that I took quite a bit of heat from several on here. I recall being quite nonplussed while others clapped like seals at our recent front office work that kept bringing in second rounders.

At some point, notably on a rebuilding team, you just cannot keep adding useless picks. There's simply no room nor need for them especially in our current environment.

And how many 2nds does it take to equal a 1st? As I said then and I repeat, 2nd rounders are virtually meaningless, even a hindrance you could say, at this point in our process.