Solving Basketball - Exposing the NBA’s Biggest Inefficiency

[CorrectCrusader]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZqGO2kQ5Cw

Large spurs section, thought y'all would like the video

[Obstructed_View]

Great video. Now the question is, whose system was being run by the Spurs? Damn sure wasn't Pop's.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Great video. Now the question is, whose system was being run by the Spurs? Damn sure wasn't Pop's.
haters are already canceling even past achievements lol

[Sugus]

haters are already canceling even past achievements lol

Yeah that's the shitty thing about the eternal Pop vs Poop debate. The acting like, since Pop is not a top-of-the-league coach right now at like 73, that he never was one.

So asinine, and especially so coming from supposedly die-hard fans who watched the Spurs' peak greatness on the flesh. Like you were there! You think the players came up with the Beautiful Game on their own or something? Smh...

[Obstructed_View]

Pop is an idiot. He was an idiot in 2006 when he benched the centers. He was an idiot for not playing Tiago Splitter. He was an idiot for falling in love with bad players and falling in love with three pointers. He was an idiot for replacing Bruce Bowen with Keith Bogans. There's plenty of evidence that the smartest thing he ever did as a coach was to let Tim Duncan run the team.

He didn't come up with the beautiful game any more than Phil Jackson came up with the triangle. :lol

And yes, its far more likely that the best pick and roll offense in the history of basketball was the result of the smartest collection of team basketball veterans ever assembled playing a simple offense better than everyone else. I predicted it before it happened because of the basketball IQ and pick and roll skills of the individual players.

[weebo]

Pop is an idiot. He was an idiot in 2006 when he benched the centers. He was an idiot for not playing Tiago Splitter. He was an idiot for falling in love with bad players and falling in love with three pointers. He was an idiot for replacing Bruce Bowen with Keith Bogans. There's plenty of evidence that the smartest thing he ever did as a coach was to let Tim Duncan run the team.

He didn't come up with the beautiful game any more than Phil Jackson came up with the triangle. :lol

And yes, its far more likely that the best pick and roll offense in the history of basketball was the result of the smartest collection of team basketball veterans ever assembled playing a simple offense better than everyone else. I predicted it before it happened because of the basketball IQ and pick and roll skills of the individual players.

Sure thing grandpa like you could do better :lol

[Poolboy5623]

What's pops record w/o TD?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Pop was the perfect coach for the dynasty era Spurs. Anyone who denies his greatness really is just a hater.

I still think he’s a good coach. He’s a little trapped by a league where the players run the show now. And mostly what it is now, simply is a show. Pop still thinks it’s basketball, when the reality is that it’s the And-1 league now, with better talent.

But the team itself is going to do Wemby a huge disservice if they don’t put more talent around him by next season. This one will be rough for him, especially if he misses out on ROY. And, he’s got to hone his game.

No one could coach this group to wins I don’t think. Maybe Pop recognizes that which is why it looks like his foot is just off the accelerator. Maybe he knows there’s not much you can do with this group.

The Spurs need to speed up the rebuild.

[Obstructed_View]

Sure thing grandpa like you could do better :lol
I absolutely could do better. Because I could hire assistants who can game plan offensively and defensively, which is what any decent team needs and what the Spurs don't have. As far as head coaching, I can not sub out players on a hot streak and I can challenge calls. I can also not call out fans for booing and can give a straight answer to reporters. That puts me above Popovich.

[weebo]

I absolutely could do better. Because I could hire assistants who can game plan offensively and defensively, which is what any decent team needs and what the Spurs don't have. As far as head coaching, I can not sub out players on a hot streak and I can challenge calls. I can also not call out fans for booing and can give a straight answer to reporters. That puts me above Popovich.

Go for it . :lol

[biba]

We need one more top 5 first round pick. Going the middle road right now would be nonsense.

We'll get it in the next draft.

FO/coach do everything to get this top 5 FR pick and we'll get it.

Everything else is noise.

[JeffDuncan]

We need one more top 5 first round pick. Going the middle road right now would be nonsense.

We'll get it in the next draft.

FO/coach do everything to get this top 5 FR pick and we'll get it.

Everything else is noise.


Best to prepare ourselves for this Spurs front office to draft LeBustron Jambustes. But we mustn’t give up all hope they’ll get it right.

[JeffDuncan]

What's pops record w/o TD?


Since Duncan retired the Spurs are 280-289. That includes the wins and losses this season so far. (Feel free to check my arithmetic.)

Duncan’s retirement had no immediate bad effect on the record. The team still had enough good players to keep winning for the next three seasons. Since then, the team has gone from low quality to the bad quality we now see.

[Seventyniner]

Yeah that's the shitty thing about the eternal Pop vs Poop debate. The acting like, since Pop is not a top-of-the-league coach right now at like 73, that he never was one.

So asinine, and especially so coming from supposedly die-hard fans who watched the Spurs' peak greatness on the flesh. Like you were there! You think the players came up with the Beautiful Game on their own or something? Smh...

The same thing happened towards the end of Parker's career. There were some posters here jumping from "end of career Parker sucks" (which was true) to "he was never good to begin with" (which was false).

[Obstructed_View]

No coach so successfully hitched his wagon to a great player and made himself into an all time great on that player's back, costing the team wins and titles with his ego and his stubbornness. He was so fixated on that personal record that he broke his promise to leave with that player and has exposed himself for the hanger-on he always was.

Pop got destroyed by Phil Jackson. He was outcoached by Avery Johnson. Many times, his team was the victim of his decisions, other times, they had the talent to overcome his negative contributions.

Most overrated coach in the history of sports, and honestly, it's not remotely close. I tried to give him credit for letting a bad team play and keep their spirit up last year, but the truth is that the only time Pop is in his element is when he is coaching a team down to get a lottery pick, something he did when he forced himself onto the team as their coach in the first place.

[exstatic]

No coach so successfully hitched his wagon to a great player and made himself into an all time great on that player's back, costing the team wins and titles with his ego and his stubbornness. He was so fixated on that personal record that he broke his promise to leave with that player and has exposed himself for the hanger-on he always was.

Pop got destroyed by Phil Jackson. He was outcoached by Avery Johnson. Many times, his team was the victim of his decisions, other times, they had the talent to overcome his negative contributions.

Most overrated coach in the history of sports, and honestly, it's not remotely close. I tried to give him credit for letting a bad team play and keep their spirit up last year, but the truth is that the only time Pop is in his element is when he is coaching a team down to get a lottery pick, something he did when he forced himself onto the team as their coach in the first place.

:rollin

Phil Jackson was the ALL TIME coat tailer, first with MJ/Pip, then with Shaq/Kobe. Both the bulls and the Lakers had already been to the conference Finals with basically the cast he inherited. The most stinging indictment was that the SECOND Tex Winter aged out of coaching, Phil walked away. Big Chief Triangle didn’t understand the offense enough to carry on without Tex.

[lefty]

Yeah that's the shitty thing about the eternal Pop vs Poop debate. The acting like, since Pop is not a top-of-the-league coach right now at like 73, that he never was one.

So asinine, and especially so coming from supposedly die-hard fans who watched the Spurs' peak greatness on the flesh. Like you were there! You think the players came up with the Beautiful Game on their own or something? Smh...
Let's not give Pop all the credit for the beautiful game

Manu opened his mind, before Ginobili we were a robotic inside out team

And the addition of Diaw was huge, he was a fantastic passer

[Spursfanfromafar]

Some random Spurstalk poster knows more than Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Sean Elliott etc.... Amazing :) The fact that 4 of these top 5 players who played for Pop stayed put at San Antonio and contributed to the Spurs in different ways even after retirement and have only the best things to say about Pop .. tells us more about Pop's greatness than the keyboard warriors in an internet forum have done.

After the Big 3 retired or were way past their prime.. Pop still helped develop a host of youngsters into major contributors .. after drafting in positions that generally dont succeed in the NBA - Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Kyle Anderson and even Keldon Johnson (not to mention Danny Green and Nephew, before he left). Only Lonnie Walker was a bit of a failure (not a major one) and Samanic a bust (and not just at the Spurs but everywhere else he went). Even Jakob Poeltl, Zach Collins and now Vassell and Tre Jones have steadily improved into good NBA players after their stint with the Spurs.

Pop's coaching resume requires no defense. It speaks for itself.

That doesn't mean that what he is trying to do now - converting Sochan into a PG is the right decision. It is too stubborn even if there is a silver lining to the returns - tanking yielding a high pick in 2024.. a major goal for a rebuilding team. I wouldn't mind losing if players develop. But development cannot happen unless players compete and the Spurs are playing with a deliberate handicap every game. That is something I have a problem with. Hopefully Pop will see the error of his ways in this one aspect while Wright will seek to get a PG who might be available in the market. Otherwise, the future of the Spurs indeed looks bright. They will have enough cap space and financial wiggle room in 2024.. will have two lottery picks (most likely) and they just need to get a more functional roster around Wemby and Vassell.

Random keyboard warrior Spurs' fan needn't jump over the cliff, even if the journey is frustrating. Trust the Process.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop's coaching resume requires no defense. It speaks for itself.

Lmao you wrote a fucking book trying to defend him. Tim Duncan carried that retard. Second greatest NBA player of all time.

[Obstructed_View]

:rollin

Phil Jackson was the ALL TIME coat tailer, first with MJ/Pip, then with Shaq/Kobe. Both the bulls and the Lakers had already been to the conference Finals with basically the cast he inherited. The most stinging indictment was that the SECOND Tex Winter aged out of coaching, Phil walked away. Big Chief Triangle didn’t understand the offense enough to carry on without Tex.
Phil whipped Pop head to head, even when he didn't have the better team.

Leaving with his meal ticket is smart. Pop should have done the same. At least Phil had assistants who understood basketball. Pop did for a while, but knowledgeable coaches figure out what you don't know.

I wondered why Timmy hated coaching so much. Now we know.

[Seventyniner]

I wondered why Timmy hated coaching so much. Now we know.

I was shocked that Tim did it at all; coaching in an official capacity like that seemed to be very out of character for him. I think Tim would have hated coaching no matter who the head coach/other assistants/ownership/roster was.

[Obstructed_View]

I was shocked that Tim did it at all; coaching in an official capacity like that seemed to be very out of character for him. I think Tim would have hated coaching no matter who the head coach/other assistants/ownership/roster was.
Possibly. He may have hoped that Pop would listen to him.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Lmao you wrote a fucking book trying to defend him. Tim Duncan carried that retard. Second greatest NBA player of all time.
this is not true

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Phil whipped Pop head to head, even when he didn't have the better team.

Leaving with his meal ticket is smart. Pop should have done the same. At least Phil had assistants who understood basketball. Pop did for a while, but knowledgeable coaches figure out what you don't know.

I wondered why Timmy hated coaching so much. Now we know.
it turns out that Kobe>Tim

[Obstructed_View]

it turns out that Kobe>Tim
Basketball is a team sport, son. Kobe not even top fifteen. Tanked a playoff series to teach his teammates a lesson. Wouldn't pass to guys because they came to practice on time. Needed great teammates around him and great coaches on the bench or he could barely function.

[SouthernFryd]

Let's not give Pop all the credit for the beautiful game

Manu opened his mind, before Ginobili we were a robotic inside out team

And the addition of Diaw was huge, he was a fantastic passer

This. Manu had more to do with the Beautiful Game than Pop and all the coaches combined.

[Obstructed_View]

This. Manu had more to do with the Beautiful Game than Pop and all the coaches combined.
True. And as Lefty said, it wasn't just Manu. The Spurs had elite passers, shooters, and screen-setters. The Beautiful Game was five players running an elaborate, interacting 2-man game on their opponents.

[Sugus]

Let's not give Pop all the credit for the beautiful game

Manu opened his mind, before Ginobili we were a robotic inside out team

And the addition of Diaw was huge, he was a fantastic passer

I'm not giving him all the credit, but tbh, what you're thinking of as a diss here is actually a great compliment. Tell me how many coaches are so open-minded as to incorporate their players' ideas and philosophy into their game execution and style? Even more so back then, 10-15 years ago. Pop's versatility and innovating style are huge contributors to his longevity, success, and GOAT claim.

Same with Diaw, and it's why the coach discussion is so terrible here. It's not that the players do all the work or the coaches do, it's a mixture, and a good coach works to his team's strengths and is malleable to them, instead of rigidly imposing their style of offense/defense no matter the personnel (cough, triangle, cough Thibs). This is a great attribute to have.

[ambchang]

^ 100% agree. When you think of any great coach you think of one single style, be it daly, Ramsey, Carlisle, spoelstra, KFC, or even lesser coaches like Rudy T, Rick adelman, and Mike d’antoni. The only three really great coach I think of who have won titles with totally different styles are Riley (80s lakers vs 06 heat) and pop (99 vs 03 vs 05/07 vs 14 spurs). Larry brown was versatile but only won one ring.

Pop coaches four very different offences to titles and that’s incredible. It also speaks to the greatest of Duncan.