Pistons Rebuilding Gone Wrong

[John B]

14 straight loses, tying their worst. They are guards heavy. Anyway we get Ivey from them? Hook it up Monty :lol:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Trading picks? There's nobody they want.

[spurraider21]

Blair, bonner, Neal and a 1 for Ivey

[TrainOfThought5]

Blair, bonner, Neal and a 1 for Ivey

classic!

[sananspursfan21]

Hayes has been really disappointing. He could be a reclamation project…and he’s a fellow Frenchman

[The Truth #6]

This thread has the making of a classic compare /contrast of two struggling teams playing horribly with questionable coaching decisions. Ahh, fun.

I want to know more about Monty Williams and his coaching style this year. I've heard he has signed veterans and is playing them over talented younger players, specifically Jaden Ivey, for example.

[baseline bum]

Blair, bonner, Neal and a 1 for Ivey

Change it to a second and change Ivey to Cunningham and maybe we have a jumping off point, though I'd want them to throw another asset in tbh.

[NASpurs]

And they still have a better point differential than the Spurs :lol

[Mugen]

Better than the Spurs at least :lol

[Mugen]

It's what happens when you pick from the soft branch of the Old Man tree tbh :lol

[poopbox]

We desperately need to con them into giving us Ivey. He'd solve every problem we have and then we could start building toward something

[JeffDuncan]

And they still have a better point differential than the Spurs :lol


Yes, by a full 5 points.

Week 5 Net:

Pistons, -7.5

Spurs, -12.5

The Spurs are dead last in the league.

[adonis827]

They got the Ausar pick right somehow. Probably should have gone 2nd imho. His defense is already elite and if his offense comes along he could be Kawhi like.

[JeffDuncan]

…
I want to know more about Monty Williams and his coaching style this year. I've heard he has signed veterans …


The Pistons’ GM is Troy Weaver. He’s the one who signs the players. While we’re comparing teams and coaches, might as well compare GM’s too.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m not sure the Spurs could beat the Pistons

[Kevin]

I‘m not sure the Spurs could beat the Pistons

If Pop ran a starting lineup that made sense the Spurs could beat them. Jones/Vessel/Keldon/Sochan/Wemby is the best option.

[Kevin]

Keldon and the Raps pick might be enough to pry away Ivey in the unlikely event the Pistons actually trade him away.

[John B]

Keldon and the Raps pick might be enough to pry away Ivey in the unlikely event the Pistons actually trade him away.

Monty was very critical on the team’s maturity and lack of competitiveness. Keldon could bring that and still in their timeline. I’d take a swap for Ivey. Ivey is not being used fully averaging only 25 mins

[Mugen]

:lol They'd never trade for Ivey. I'm sure Monty has already poisoned that well that Pop would stay far away even though it'd probably be a worthwhile move. They also wouldn't banish Keldon to f'n Detroit.

[baseline bum]

:lol They'd never trade for Ivey. I'm sure Monty has already poisoned that well that Pop would stay far away even though it'd probably be a worthwhile move. They also wouldn't banish Keldon to f'n Detroit.

Is a trade from this shitshow really banishing? :lol

[The Truth #6]

The Pistons’ GM is Troy Weaver. He’s the one who signs the players. While we’re comparing teams and coaches, might as well compare GM’s too.

They sure did draft a lot of point guards, that seems like a bad choice, especially with Cade not being a player to build around, it seems.

[Mugen]

Is a trade from this shitshow really banishing? :lol

:lol Fair point tbh

[CorrectCrusader]

Idk why y'all want bad players from awful teams

[poopbox]

:lol They'd never trade for Ivey. I'm sure Monty has already poisoned that well that Pop would stay far away even though it'd probably be a worthwhile move. They also wouldn't banish Keldon to f'n Detroit.

I mean they already banished him to San Antonio so I don't see why not.:rollin

[poopbox]

This thread has the making of a classic compare /contrast of two struggling teams playing horribly with questionable coaching decisions. Ahh, fun.

I want to know more about Monty Williams and his coaching style this year. I've heard he has signed veterans and is playing them over talented younger players, specifically Jaden Ivey, for example.

Monty is a shit coach who gets carried by veteran players playing at an elite level. He is like old school Pop chastising young players for every little mistake and then benching them when they don't do something he thinks is correct, as if he would know what is the correct thing to do. That is why Ivey is coming off the bench and why I think he is gettable cause Monty has to have some young players in his dog house and for who knows what reason he has targeted Ivey the same way he targeted Ayton in Phoenix.

[Obstructed_View]

Looks like Detroit got the draft pick right, even if they chose retarded Pop Jr as their coach.

[R. DeMurre]

Obviously it's still early, but the Pistons show one of the issues with rebuilding. When you're terrible, the BPA is usually the best bet, but at some point you have to make the pieces fit. Cade, Duren, Ausar, & Killian Hayes are all poor to mediocre 3 pt shooters, and that's just not going to work in the modern NBA. Anyone can tank and trade impact players for future picks, but it still takes good planning and nuance (and often some patience and luck) to get to that top level where you're really competing with the best.

[tim_duncan_fan]

14 straight loses, tying their worst. They are guards heavy. Anyway we get Ivey from them? Hook it up Monty :lol:lol

14 straight losses is crazy.

If a team loses more than 10 times in a row, perhaps the team should examine the coaching situation.

[John B]

14 straight losses is crazy.

If a team loses more than 10 times in a row, perhaps the team should examine the coaching situation.

They have very good pieces, just not a good fit. Questionable also to get Wiseman, Bagley but Monty pretty much inherited them from last year.

[DPG21920]

Spurs too have a lot of work to do. I believe they have done a great job lately and set themselves up with a real opportunity but thats not a guarantee they execute.

All 3 phases (draft, free agency and trade) are critical next 2-3 years. Spurs need to simultaneously improve and develop but also take real leaps and make shrewd tough calls on some players and the roster.

All the extra picks and salary cap doesn’t matter if they fail to land modern players who fit and compliment each other.

[John B]

They are heavy on guards, and they need vets. Collins and Keldon for Ivey and Duren :lol They can workout the salaries.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

14 straight losses is crazy.

If a team loses more than 10 times in a row, perhaps the team should examine the coaching situation.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/i-see-what-qmuyjl.jpg

[NASpurs]

Spurs too have a lot of work to do. I believe they have done a great job lately and set themselves up with a real opportunity but thats not a guarantee they execute.

All 3 phases (draft, free agency and trade) are critical next 2-3 years. Spurs need to simultaneously improve and develop but also take real leaps and make shrewd tough calls on some players and the roster.

All the extra picks and salary cap doesn’t matter if they fail to land modern players who fit and compliment each other.

Trying to spin it so you can sell tickets :lol

[DPG21920]

Trying to spin it so you can sell tickets :lol

ABC

Always Be Closing

[TD 21]

Obviously it's still early, but the Pistons show one of the issues with rebuilding. When you're terrible, the BPA is usually the best bet, but at some point you have to make the pieces fit. Cade, Duren, Ausar, & Killian Hayes are all poor to mediocre 3 pt shooters, and that's just not going to work in the modern NBA. Anyone can tank and trade impact players for future picks, but it still takes good planning and nuance (and often some patience and luck) to get to that top level where you're really competing with the best.

Tell that to the Spurs, who 9 seasons into this era haven't figured this out.

At least in the Pistons case, because they started their re-build earlier and have generally picked higher, most of their picks were just taking the consensus option.

Which just goes to prove what I always preach: This mostly comes down to luck. Cunningham, in particular, was supposed to be the ideal modern archetype (Schmitz called him the most complete prospect he'd scouted in his decade covering the draft) and so far looks like a relative bust (granted, he plays amid zero spacing).

Unlike the Spurs, who once again lucked into a projected MVP level centerpiece immediately upon sinking to the bottom, they have a core that's ceiling appears top starter or fringe All-Star caliber.

[John B]

Spurs too have a lot of work to do. I believe they have done a great job lately and set themselves up with a real opportunity but thats not a guarantee they execute.

All 3 phases (draft, free agency and trade) are critical next 2-3 years. Spurs need to simultaneously improve and develop but also take real leaps and make shrewd tough calls on some players and the roster.

All the extra picks and salary cap doesn’t matter if they fail to land modern players who fit and compliment each other.

I get tanking while Wemby gets stronger. Cade and Co are ready to compete but are not. They have nice pieces just not the right fit.

[Tyronn Lue]

Two teams fighting for last place.

[timtonymanu]

Yeah the spurs would get their butts kicked by Detroit and pop will be all smiles and hugs with Monty after a 30 point spanking

[DPG21920]

I get tanking while Wemby gets stronger. Cade and Co are ready to compete but are not. They have nice pieces just not the right fit.

Ya for sure. Not comparing DET to SA exactly only that there’s still a lot of work to do and det showing a blueprint of how hard this can be if you don’t execute at a high level all around.

[J_Paco]

Detroit could be in similar spot as OKC and Orlando a few seasons ago, when it seemed like they had mismatched pieces and were floundering. Yet they've both come out of the other side loaded with talent and now being extremely competitive.

Obviously, it's still early and we have to see if they'll actually start winning at some point this season.

[CGD]

Id love for DET to give up on Cade.

[John B]

15 straight losses. Something have to give. Is Monty getting canned? Trading for veterans? We have Keldon or Collins for Ivey :lol

[CGD]

Their roster construction makes no sense. Our talent isnt the best, but at least the roster more or less makes sense notwithstanding "the experiment".

They have few potential "second lifers" in Hayes and Wiseman that will roll off their roster next year. They suck to be sure, but faced with being out of the league next year, might have added urgency to turn it around and could be short term risks worth taking (e.g., like a team friendly 1+1).

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah the spurs would get their butts kicked by Detroit and pop will be all smiles and hugs with Monty after a 30 point spanking
That's what we are.

[Obstructed_View]

15 straight losses. Something have to give. Is Monty getting canned? Trading for veterans? We have Keldon or Collins for Ivey :lol
I remember when Monty played for the Spurs. We went to games back then. In warmups, he would stand at the three point line and jab step while he chatted with another bench player. He almost never shot or dribbled or ran or stretched. Just jab stepped so he could keep chatting and looking like he was a basketball player.

His coaching career has been much the same.

[John B]

Their roster construction makes no sense. Our talent isnt the best, but at least the roster more or less makes sense notwithstanding "the experiment".

They have few potential "second lifers" in Hayes and Wiseman that will roll off their roster next year. They suck to be sure, but faced with being out of the league next year, might have added urgency to turn it around and could be short term risks worth taking (e.g., like a team friendly 1+1).

I keep watching their volatile situation if Pop could send much needed veteran help, and get us the young PG in return :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

http://https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html)

Interesting article about both Ivey and Ausar Thompson falling out of favor.

[John B]

http://https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html)

Interesting article about both Ivey and Ausar Thompson falling out of favor.

Damn. I’d take either one in a minute. Keldon or Collins??

[Obstructed_View]

http://https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/pistons-bench-jaden-ivey-ausar-thompson.html)

Interesting article about both Ivey and Ausar Thompson falling out of favor.
That means the coach is gone. They won't risk shuffling pieces around for that moron.

[Seventyniner]

That means the coach is gone. They won't risk shuffling pieces around for that moron.

Agreed. You can't fire the players.

[scott]

Any insight into why Ausar was benched? Seemed like he was doing really well.

[John B]

Any insight into why Ausar was benched? Seemed like he was doing really well.

This from that article:
As for Thompson, he was a full-time starter before his benching Thursday. This year’s No. 5 overall pick has been one of the most impressive rookies this season, averaging 11.4 points, 9.3 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 1.6 blocks. Livers started in his place, recording six points and four rebounds.
Neither Thompson or Ivey played major roles off the bench on Thursday, with both logging just 13 minutes of game time, though Thompson had five fouls. That marks Ivey’s second-lowest minute total this season and Thompson’s lowest in his young career. Marcus Sasser (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sassema01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=www.hoopsrumors.com&utm_campaign=2023-11-30_bbr) finished with the most minutes off the bench, recording 17 points.

I’d be watching the development of this team. They are guards heavy. Spurs could get a young promising PG if the Pistons want a trade for a young veteran for stability who can help them win some games, and vice versa for the Spurs needing a young PG that will fit their timeline.

[tbdog]

I still think magic is our trade partner. They need wing help and fultz is the odd man out.

[TimmyBuckets]

Ivey would be nice but we have 2 top 5-10 picks next year potentially so no moves are gonna be made unless we brick next draft.

[baseline bum]

I still think magic is our trade partner. They need wing help and fultz is the odd man out.

Fultz is about on par with Tre Jones from the three point line and is on an expiring. Not interested in giving up an asset and paying a big contract for such a flawed player. He's a China doll too.

[CGD]

I think it boils down to brining in some good vets. It’s worked for Houston so far, and the spurs would be wise to follow suit next summer.

[rascal]

Ivey would be nice but we have 2 top 5-10 picks next year potentially so no moves are gonna be made unless we brick next draft.

Don't count on that Toronto pick just yet.

[buttsR4rebounding]

That means the coach is gone. They won't risk shuffling pieces around for that moron.

Williams is in the 1st year of a 6 year, $78.5 million contract. He’s not going anywhere.

[Arcadian]

Who would win, current Spurs or 96-97 Spurs?

[Obstructed_View]

Williams is in the 1st year of a 6 year, $78.5 million contract. He’s not going anywhere.
Then neither, in my opinion, are young, talented players.

[Obstructed_View]

Who would win, current Spurs or 96-97 Spurs?
Dominique would get mess around and get a triple double.

[FrostKing]

Detroit Tigers are also at another rebuild. Lions massive surprise.

Red Wings climbed up the long NHL ladder but it required elite Player & GM Yzerman to return to town and it's Year 4.


MoTown has bigger problems than sports teams but it too seems to be slowly rebuilding.

[John B]

Ivey would be nice but we have 2 top 5-10 picks next year potentially so no moves are gonna be made unless we brick next draft.

Possibly, but does it have to be two lottery picks instead of just one? If they can insert a young PG, slide Sochan back to his natural position and start winning some? Ivey seems to be a good character guy unless Monty knows something. Remember Ayton? Ivey is on the move if Monty has him on the doghouse. Come on Wright, make this right.

Jaden Ivey's Playing Time Has 'Sparked Some Tension' With Pistons Interally
DEC 1, 2023 2:52 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/wiretap/photos/2006/Ivey_Jaden_det_221114.jpg
As Jaden Ivey begins his second season with the Detroit Pistons, he has received inconsistent playing time under Monty Williams. The issue has "sparked some tension among Detroit decision-makers this season," sources tell Jake Fischer of Yahoo Sports.
Ivey averaged 16.3 points and 5.2 assists per game as a rookie and finished sixth in Rookie of the Year voting.
Williams didn't communicate with Ivey to let him know he would begin the season in a reserve role.
“There wasn’t anything said,” Ivey told Yahoo Sports. “Once I saw what was going on, coming off the bench was no problem for me. I love every single one of these dudes in here. I’d ride for them any day. Coming off the bench isn’t a confidence thing or a downer for me. I’m still confident in my game and play the same way.”
Several teams tried to trade up to select Ivey during the 2022 NBA draft.

JAKE FISCHER/YAHOO SPORTS (https://sports.yahoo.com/pistons-seemingly-have-plenty-of-assets-but-no-clear-direction-144900683.html)

[R. DeMurre]

The way Monty Williams handled the Ayton situation seemed really poor to me-- not talking to him at all while obviously being mad. To not address the issue at all and let it fester seems like the #1 thing a coach shouldn't do. There being unrest and disenchantment on a young team with a coach who doesn't seem like a great communicator strikes me as the most predictable scenario imaginable.

[exstatic]

The way Monty Williams handled the Ayton situation seemed really poor to me-- not talking to him at all while obviously being mad. To not address the issue at all and let it fester seems like the #1 thing a coach shouldn't do. There being unrest and disenchantment on a young team with a coach who doesn't seem like a great communicator strikes me as the most predictable scenario imaginable.

Were you at Phoenix team meetings or practices? There’s a very good chance he talked to him until he was blue in the face. His 13.1/7.5 certainly isn’t wowing anyone this year. Some guys have all the talent in the world, but zero motor,and you can’t teach that.

[R. DeMurre]

Were you at Phoenix team meetings or practices? There’s a very good chance he talked to him until he was blue in the face. His 13.1/7.5 certainly isn’t wowing anyone this year. Some guys have all the talent in the world, but zero motor,and you can’t teach that.


What I was referring to specifically was an article saying Ayton & Monty hadn't spoken in 5 months over the summer, after not getting along in a playoff series dust up, and then Phoenix signing him to a new 4 year contract. I'm not saying Ayton is completely blameless here, but it doesn't seem like Monty handled that situation particularly well. Here's that article:


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34679145/suns-deandre-ayton-says-spoken-coach-monty-williams-game-7-benching

[TDMVPDPOY]

they been rebuilding for thelast couple of seasons now...

nba needs to do something about teams tanking 3 seasons in a row, even if u give them the top3 consecutive picks and they still not improving or attracting FA... then the team and that city explains for itself...shit hole

[John B]

23 straight losses after a 146-114 embrassing loss to the Bucks last night. Detroit fans are getting fed up and asking to fire Troy Weaver. I’m real curious if the Spurs can get their starting PG (Ivey) from the Pistons, sending a young vet player like Keldon or Collins to help Monty give Pistons some fire, given the relationship with Monty.

[SpursBills]

Detroit's talent is bad but not this bad. They look so much worse than the actual scores of these blowouts. That monty williams contract may be one of the worst hires in history relative to the amount he signed for. He sucks at in game adjustments and his strength is supposedly building a team culture. Except he's notorious for playing favorites and alienating players. At least with Pop, even though he's bad now, you can argue that it's a thank you contract for past performance. Monty was never a good coach, and now the pistons are stuck with him for 5 years because ownership's not going to want to pull the plug and eat 80 million. Detroit's fucked.

[BacktoBasics]

23 straight losses after a 146-114 embrassing loss to the Bucks last night. Detroit fans are getting fed up and asking to fire Troy Weaver. I’m real curious if the Spurs can get their starting PG (Ivey) from the Pistons, sending a young vet player like Keldon or Collins to help Monty give Pistons some fire, given the relationship with Monty.

It’s hard to evaluate Ivey because of the mess there but I’m not in love with giving up Keldons production for a guy who is struggling to break the rotation regularly.

I think I’d rather roll the dice moving a pick for Ivey and working a more productive package around Keldon during the offseason or at the very least closer to the trade deadline.

[exstatic]

23 straight losses after a 146-114 embrassing loss to the Bucks last night. Detroit fans are getting fed up and asking to fire Troy Weaver. I’m real curious if the Spurs can get their starting PG (Ivey) from the Pistons, sending a young vet player like Keldon or Collins to help Monty give Pistons some fire, given the relationship with Monty.

Was weaver in the drivers seat when Detroit passed on Mobley to pick Cade? Because he should be fired for that.

[scott]

It’s hard to evaluate Ivey because of the mess there but I’m not in love with giving up Keldons production for a guy who is struggling to break the rotation regularly.

I think I’d rather roll the dice moving a pick for Ivey and working a more productive package around Keldon during the offseason or at the very least closer to the trade deadline.

Keldon’s production is an illusion, and mostly a progress stopper (today’s game versus NOP is a great example). Spurs should be looking to move him for whatever player they can get with a higher ceiling and a reasonable chance of realizing it.

[spurs1990]

Deeeetroooit basketball going for number 28 tonight at Boston which ties Phillie's 15-16 two season mark. 16.5 point dogs.

Jalen Brown is officially out and Tatum might rest. Pistons have proven they're capable of withstanding other teams' skeleton lineup with that last Jazz loss.
Good news for Detroit is Isaiah Stewart is out so no chance of his rugged play ruining their outcome.

6:30pm Central Time - nationally televised on NBA TV. Get your popcorn ready.

[spurs1990]

28-17 Pistons with Tatum playing.

Monumental Upset brewing…

[John B]

28-17 Pistons with Tatum playing.

Monumental Upset brewing…

I’m rooting for them to keep losing and maybe the Spurs could scoop any of their young point guards

[John B]

50-37. The Celtics are playing bad though

[John B]

66-47 at the half. This could be the night for Detroit. Spurs could take over the top pick tonight :lol:lol

[itzsoweezee]

First time watch Detroit this season, and Cade in two years. I didn’t realize he was a Trae Young-level defender. Absolutely does not give any effort in playing defense. Literally does not even move on defense

[John B]

Detroit has dumb players tbh. But they do have nice pieces, Cunningham, Duren, Bogdonovic

[spurs1990]

Bogdan Bagdonovic nearly ended all hope but Detroit willed their way to another one.

Toronto looms. May the Ghost of Leonard guide them Saturday

[Obstructed_View]

Wasn't the Spurs' lead assistant coach the guy who coached the Sixers to their record losing streak?

[spurs1990]

I fear all is lost tonight with Toronto trading their best player ahead of a historic bout.
Raps play at Boston last night in a tough one. Detroit is only minus 3.5 in this one.

Tip off 5:30pm CST.

1994 Sean Elliott will be popping a bottle.