Sochan......

[lebomb]

I love the guy as a person, but c'mon.... Does someone see anything that I am not?

I was disappointed in the pick when drafted because I do not see the value in a player that struggles to score. His last 3 games he has scored 4, 7 and 5. I havent seen any improvement in his game at all. Please correct, or counsel me if I am in error. I'm just not seeing it. :bang

[tbdog]

Considering Kyle Anderson made a career, Sochan will. So just think Kyle Anderson back then, but faster and sneaky athletic. What will Sochan turn into? We don't know yet.

[Russo21]

There's some people in here who really highly rate him and I don't see why either. Can't dribble, can't shoot, can't pass, has bad court vision, misses open team-mates in scoring positions, average rebounder and overrated Defender. There's not much he does that impresses me. I was shocked when he had 30 piece the other week and I though 'fuck maybe I'm wrong and he has game' and he has proceeded that Performance with utter shit. It doesn't help that the most overrated coach in history is trying to make him something he has no skillset for. Since his 30 piece he's had 13 on 4/13, 6 on 3/10, 4 on 2/6, 7 on 3/11 and 5 on 2/9 shooting. Defence is overrated with 0.3bpg and 0.7spg, both down from last year. Also his subpar PG play is making life harder for everyone else including Wemby. I don't see the fascination homer fans have for him. Wow he dyes his hair like an idiot, wow he's the new rodman. No just no.

[John B]

Already his FT’s are up at 75% since he switched to one-hand. His 3pt at 36%. His assists at 4.6. These are all better last year. TO’s are higher understandably as he learns to facilitate. Sochan is a glue-guy who does multiple things. He’s shown he can score. What he needs to learn is WHEN to takeover. I think they are still finding the balance how many touches each player get.

[mo7888]

I love the guy as a person, but c'mon.... Does someone see anything that I am not?

I was disappointed in the pick when drafted because I do not see the value in a player that struggles to score. His last 3 games he has scored 4, 7 and 5. I havent seen any improvement in his game at all. Please correct, or counsel me if I am in error. I'm just not seeing it. :bang

2022 tiers
Tier 1
1. Paolo Banchero
2. Jabari Smith
3. Chet Holmgren
4. Jaden Ivey
Tier 2
5. Keegan Murray
6. Benedict Mathurin
7. Jalen Duren
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Johnny Davis
Tier 3
10. Shaedon Sharpe
11. Jalen Williams
12. Ousmane Dieng
13. Jeremy Sochan

I had him #13 in that draft on my board.

[TrainOfThought5]

Sochan is going to be amazing coming off the bench in a couple years.

[lebomb]

Sochan is going to be amazing coming off the bench in a couple years.

Now this I can see. But starting? Naaaaaaw.

[spurraider21]

im concerned because he's been an average at best defender. he also has seemingly forgotten how to play off the ball on offense even though that's where he made himself an impact player as a rookie. but if he's not going to be a difference making defender, thats a big red flag for his career outlook

[Sugus]

Already his FT’s are up at 75% since he switched to one-hand. His 3pt at 36%. His assists at 4.6. These are all better last year. TO’s are higher understandably as he learns to facilitate. Sochan is a glue-guy who does multiple things. He’s shown he can score. What he needs to learn is WHEN to takeover. I think they are still finding the balance how many touches each player get.

Thank you. He's gotten better in important areas, despite having to take a bunch of "steps back" as he started learning an entirely new and different skillset this season.

What will come out of it? Probably a player who's a bit of a PG and a nominal PF. Luckily for us, those players have skyrocketed in value in the modern league. There's little downside to the experiment (unless you're in the "he might forget how to rebound!!!" camp), and so much to gain. But people expect linear and consistent progression/growth which is so unrealistic for learning... anything at all, tbh.

[paperboy77]

He can be huge for us. Last year prior to Pop messing with this guy's game, he was a glue guy, hustler, full of intangibles, agitator, occasional big play maker when the moment was chaotic, and hardly ever looked for his shot in a "my touches" type manner. That version of JS did not expect any real plays being run for him so the guy relied on instinct and an attitude that he needed to make a hustle play if he wanted to be impactful. Even his passing... people here are starting to say his court vision is bad but imo that's being said based of this Pop FUBAR of a strategy with him. He could make pretty damn good passes in chaotic situations.

If your vision of a great player on a great team means a offensive centered player, then JC is not the guy. There's only 1 ball and 5 egos... maybe 4 if someone like Sochan is playing like he did last year.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think "sochan" is french for "shouldn't be on the roster".

Someone can check me on that, but I'm pretty certain that translation is spot on.

[weebo]

There's some people in here who really highly rate him and I don't see why either. Can't dribble, can't shoot, can't pass, has bad court vision, misses open team-mates in scoring positions, average rebounder and overrated Defender. There's not much he does that impresses me. I was shocked when he had 30 piece the other week and I though 'fuck maybe I'm wrong and he has game' and he has proceeded that Performance with utter shit. It doesn't help that the most overrated coach in history is trying to make him something he has no skillset for. Since his 30 piece he's had 13 on 4/13, 6 on 3/10, 4 on 2/6, 7 on 3/11 and 5 on 2/9 shooting. Defence is overrated with 0.3bpg and 0.7spg, both down from last year. Also his subpar PG play is making life harder for everyone else including Wemby. I don't see the fascination homer fans have for him. Wow he dyes his hair like an idiot, wow he's the new rodman. No just no.

I can see why you were banned from S/R. You’re like the J Sochan of SpursTalk.

[Splits]

I think "sochan" is french for "shouldn't be on the roster".

Someone can check me on that, but I'm pretty certain that translation is spot on.

Pretty sure it is alors merde

[KobesAchilles]

Thank you. He's gotten better in important areas, despite having to take a bunch of "steps back" as he started learning an entirely new and different skillset this season.

What will come out of it? Probably a player who's a bit of a PG and a nominal PF. Luckily for us, those players have skyrocketed in value in the modern league. There's little downside to the experiment (unless you're in the "he might forget how to rebound!!!" camp), and so much to gain. But people expect linear and consistent progression/growth which is so unrealistic for learning... anything at all, tbh.
All these words just to say he's a nice back up big man:violin

[TD 21]

Considering Kyle Anderson made a career, Sochan will. So just think Kyle Anderson back then, but faster and sneaky athletic. What will Sochan turn into? We don't know yet.

I was never an Anderson fan, but he always graded out well analytically as a plus defender (more so as a playmaker or "event creator" than man defender) /rebounder and connective ball handler/passer offensively.

Sochan never has. People have this false perception of him because he vaguely resembles Rodman as a Spur.

He's a monument to this organization's ineptitude as they continue to ignore analytics and base things off their jaundice (narrow minded definition of what a Spur "should be") eye test.

[The Truth #6]

All these words just to say he's a nice back up big man:violin

Ha. No, I thought it was a nuanced response. I do think he's struggling to adjust to these massive changes though.

[spurraider21]

slomo wasnt really productive for us until year 4, at which point he was 24 yo (sochan is currently 20), and was only in a role as big as he was because it was the year nephew was ghosting the club. he wasnt bad before then, he just had a very minimal role

his minutes were much less frequent in his first 3 years, usually playing around 15mpg, which for reference is about what champagnie/mcdermott have been getting this year. if sochan was playing half the minutes he is now, and was much more of a hustle player, he'd probably look better in that kind of role, too.

my biggest concern with sochan is he doesnt look like a plus defender, which slomo always was, and which was supposed to be sochan's calling card

[DPG21920]

I want Sochan to be Spurs Aaron Gordon…

[TekXX]

Our scouting sucks, we need to go back to international players.

[TheGreatYacht]

PATFO fluffers fooled the masses that he was a good defender because he painted his hair like Rodman :lmao

He's the worst defender in the starting lineup. Worse than Branham. That linsanity run he had shooting 3's is over as well. Rightfully the worst player in the league

[Degoat]

I really think Sochans knee is messed up, he’s looked slow and rarely finishes above the rim this year.

[BatManu20]

Yea I’m not sure what’s going on with Sochan. He’s been terrible and his defense has basically been nonexistent for a couple weeks now, and really for most of our games thus far.

But worse than that, he looks totally disengaged to me. I mentioned yesterday in the game thread that I thought maybe Pop’s PG experiment with him has fucked with his head/confidence, cause it definitely appears to have tbh. Sochan used to be the brightest personality on the team along with Keldon, and he just looks absolutely miserable lately, both on an off the court, and it’s almost certainly because he’s been playing terribly.

Sochan is also big on social media unfortunately. He spends a lot of time on IG and Twitter. He’s always posting to his IG story and “liking” Tweets. I guarantee he keeps reading all the constant negative remarks about him on those apps, and I bet it’s getting to his head tbh. 20 year-olds typically don’t handle shit like that very well. Think he’s in his own head right now more than anything, because while Sochan is far from a great player, he’s also not nearly as bad as he’s played this past month tbh.

[tbdog]

I was never an Anderson fan, but he always graded out well analytically as a plus defender (more so as a playmaker or "event creator" than man defender) /rebounder and connective ball handler/passer offensively.

Sochan never has. People have this false perception of him because he vaguely resembles Rodman as a Spur.

He's a monument to this organization's ineptitude as they continue to ignore analytics and base things off their jaundice (narrow minded definition of what a Spur "should be") eye test.

Look at Kyle's first 3 seasons. You can't compared Kyle now or in his prime compared to Sochan. It's really embarrassing how fans write off young players then build up busts. Young players are on different time lines. Look at draymond greens second season. The guy was 22 years old when drafted.

Just enjoy the ride. Sochan will have a successful nba career as a 9th overall pick.

[tbdog]

Yea I’m not sure what’s going on with Sochan. He’s been terrible and his defense has basically been nonexistent for a couple weeks now, and really for most of our games thus far.

But worse than that, he looks totally disengaged to me. I mentioned yesterday in the game thread that I thought maybe Pop’s PG experiment with him has fucked with his head/confidence, cause it definitely appears to have tbh. Sochan used to be the brightest personality on the team along with Keldon, and he just looks absolutely miserable lately, both on an off the court, and it’s almost certainly because he’s been playing terribly.

Sochan is also big on social media unfortunately. He spends a lot of time on IG and Twitter. He’s always posting to his IG story and “liking” Tweets. I guarantee he keeps reading all the constant negative remarks about him on those apps, and I bet it’s getting to his head tbh. 20 year-olds typically don’t handle shit like that very well. Think he’s in his own head right now more than anything, because while Sochan is far from a great player, he’s also not nearly as bad as he’s played this past month tbh.

Disagree on his defense. Second years don't get asked to mark the best guards in the NBA. He'll get torched by players but he is guarding the best.

And your speculating on his attitude. These players get sports psychologists to deal internet trolls and a stretch of bad play, loses etc to reduce their mental health.

[BackHome]

Pop really did no favors for Sochan having him run point unless it was for him to work on ball skills to make him a better PF in the future. I still like him I just want to see him play PF for the remaining season and see what we have at the end.

[spurraider21]

i wrote off his ineffective defense early because of some tough matchups like Luka and Kawhi. but he was getting cooked by russell yesterday. and even in games where he's been passable, he just hasnt been an impact defender

[TD 21]

Look at Kyle's first 3 seasons. You can't compared Kyle now or in his prime compared to Sochan. It's really embarrassing how fans write off young players then build up busts. Young players are on different time lines. Look at draymond greens second season. The guy was 22 years old when drafted.

Just enjoy the ride. Sochan will have a successful nba career as a 9th overall pick.

Anderson was just what I said from the jump and not only isn't a bust, but blew away the value of a typical 30th overall pick.

Sochan, again, is the opposite. There isn't anything one can point to and say he does it well or analytically have it bear out. He's flat out terrible at most things.

[rascal]

I didn't want the Spurs to draft Sochan.

I was one of the few in here who wasn't high on him after the draft.

He's going to end up coming off the bench in a couple of years. Not looking good for a number 9 pick.

[scott]

I still have some small bit of hope for Sochan, but don’t want him playing PG ever again.

I wish Lonnie had been given the same developmental path as Sochan, tbh (in terms of minutes and opportunity).

[rankingtear]

His offense just cratered as the PF in this group. Nobody really guards him off ball and the cutting is less effective without a playmaking big.

[tbdog]

I didn't want the Spurs to draft Sochan.

I was one of the few in here who wasn't high on him after the draft.

He's going to end up coming off the bench in a couple of years. Not looking good for a number 9 pick.

Well, would you say you prefer Kuminga?

[SAGirl]

I can only watch the nationally televised games so I’ve missed a lot of his better showings probably. I am wondering if playing in the bench will help. I didn’t watch the games where he’s gone to the bench but it didn’t seem like he played that much better. I figure his strength is defensive impact and that helps out the starting crew more but it’s too difficult to fit a guy in who doesn’t do anything offensively all that well and is passive.

I wonder what’s the strength of his game offensively. Defensively if he’s not impactful he’s not going to earn his spot in the starting lineup long term.

[baseline bum]

i wrote off his ineffective defense early because of some tough matchups like Luka and Kawhi. but he was getting cooked by russell yesterday. and even in games where he's been passable, he just hasnt been an impact defender

I'm coming around to rascal's view on Sochan. He's not just not an impact defender; he's a bad defender. His defensive FG% is 50.0%, tying him with guys like Domatas Sabonis, Luka Doncic, and Brandon Miller. And just a hair above Zach Collins' 50.3% DFG. If you sort by DFG on nba.com's stats page Jeremy is near the bottom of page 7 of 10. Even Trae Young's DFG (49.5%) is half a point better than Sochan's. He can dye his hair and wear #10 but it's getting to look like Sochan might be a poor man's Malik Rose rather than another Dennis Rodman.

[baseline bum]

I can only watch the nationally televised games so I’ve missed a lot of his better showings probably. I am wondering if playing in the bench will help. I didn’t watch the games where he’s gone to the bench but it didn’t seem like he played that much better. I figure his strength is defensive impact and that helps out the starting crew more but it’s too difficult to fit a guy in who doesn’t do anything offensively all that well and is passive.

I wonder what’s the strength of his game offensively. Defensively if he’s not impactful he’s not going to earn his spot in the starting lineup long term.

FT shooting

[baseline bum]

I still have some small bit of hope for Sochan, but don’t want him playing PG ever again.

I wish Lonnie had been given the same developmental path as Sochan, tbh (in terms of minutes and opportunity).

I wonder what his work ethic is. Being such a poor defender reflects pretty badly on that, especially when Rodman's success came largely from him being obsessive watching game tape on both his team and his opponents. Then again he's 20, maybe Pop's seeing something we're missing.

[itzsoweezee]

Last year, he was a bad defender but at least tried hard. This year, he didn’t even appear to be trying

[RC_Drunkford]

He just needs a different coach like a lot of ex-Spurs players did. See Lonnie Walker for example

[spurraider21]

He just needs a different coach like a lot of ex-Spurs players did. See Lonnie Walker for example
lonnie was the same thing with the lakers that he was with the spurs, and has had a hot 1.5 months to start this season under the revolutionary coaching ability of *checks notes* jacque vauhgn

[Mugen]

Masterclass in killing this kid's confidence tbh :lol

[spurraider21]

Masterclass in killing this kid's confidence tbh :lol
he needed to break him down so he could rebuild him

cia pop

#sniffcrew

[hater]

Yeah he still sucks

[rankingtear]

I'm coming around to rascal's view on Sochan. He's not just not an impact defender; he's a bad defender. His defensive FG% is 50.0%, tying him with guys like Domatas Sabonis, Luka Doncic, and Brandon Miller. And just a hair above Zach Collins' 50.3% DFG. If you sort by DFG on nba.com's stats page Jeremy is near the bottom of page 7 of 10. Even Trae Young's DFG (49.5%) is half a point better than Sochan's. He can dye his hair and wear #10 but it's getting to look like Sochan might be a poor man's Malik Rose rather than another Dennis Rodman.

A little context, Sochan guards every point of attack player from 1-4. He is ranked 1 on matchup versatility in the league. He is our Dillon Brooks.

[freetiago]

Sochan doesn’t do anything good or even above average except airballing 3s with 10 feet of space to shoot it. Hopefully GMs are as dumb as some of the other posters in this thread and he can be traded for a known quantity when it’s time to compete

[Kawhi Duncan]

A little context, Sochan guards every point of attack player from 1-4. He is ranked 1 on matchup versatility in the league. He is our Dillon Brooks.

He guards them... But they cook him... And it's not like he scores on the other end

[The Truth #6]

He isn't playing well at all. Pop plays him in difficult situations. Both are true. Time will tell if he improves. I suppose the perpetually angry would in theory have to choose between hating Sochan himself or hating Pop for ruining him. What a dilemma!

[Sugus]

All these words just to say he's a nice back up big man:violin

Dust is far from settled as to his position on a winning team, and moreso, it's frankly quite strange that a Spurs fan of all people would talk about bench players dismissively. What would be so wrong about him playing backup to a star PF on a title team, tbh?

Manu made a living off being a back up wing. And the Spurs have their Timmy D already... Hopefully we go for that Parker PG in this draft, fingers crossed on a top-3 pick.

[cd98]

Sochan was never projected to be a star. He’s an intangible guy. Someone who has the raw skills to develop into a strong complement to star players. If he continues to shoot threes at a high percentage and improves as a defender. The Spurs will just need a number two to pair with Wemby. Vassell is more a third best player. With just those 3, all years below their prime, get a good number two and they will win a lot.

[KobesAchilles]

Dust is far from settled as to his position on a winning team, and moreso, it's frankly quite strange that a Spurs fan of all people would talk about bench players dismissively. What would be so wrong about him playing backup to a star PF on a title team, tbh?

Manu made a living off being a back up wing. And the Spurs have their Timmy D already... Hopefully we go for that Parker PG in this draft, fingers crossed on a top-3 pick.
wow you are in your feels a bit :lol
Ive actually defended Sochan by saying he would be a perfect back up big. In fact I’ve been the only one defending Sochan. He’s a hustle energy player off the bench. That’s what he was at Baylor. It’s the role I want for him here. I’m the only one with realistic expectations from Sochan. People here want to see him fail at PG for some reason.

[lebomb]

Sochan was never projected to be a star. He’s an intangible guy. Someone who has the raw skills to develop into a strong complement to star players. If he continues to shoot threes at a high percentage and improves as a defender. The Spurs will just need a number two to pair with Wemby. Vassell is more a third best player. With just those 3, all years below their prime, get a good number two and they will win a lot.

They could have pick up an intangible guy in the 2nd round. Hell, they probably could have gotten Sochan in the 2nd actually. :rolleyes

[lebomb]

wow you are in your feels a bit :lol
Ive actually defended Sochan by saying he would be a perfect back up big. In fact I’ve been the only one defending Sochan. He’s a hustle energy player off the bench. That’s what he was at Baylor. It’s the role I want for him here. I’m the only one with realistic expectations from Sochan. People here want to see him fail at PG for some reason.

See my response above............... :pimpslap

[KobesAchilles]

See my response above............... :pimpslap
The one about eating booty?

[rascal]

Sochan was never projected to be a star. He’s an intangible guy. Someone who has the raw skills to develop into a strong complement to star players. If he continues to shoot threes at a high percentage and improves as a defender. The Spurs will just need a number two to pair with Wemby. Vassell is more a third best player. With just those 3, all years below their prime, get a good number two and they will win a lot.

There were many in Spurstalk that thought Sochan is going to be a star.

[playbonner15]

https://x.com/TheTyJager/status/1736046804364578966

[SPURt]

I’m a Sochan guzzler. I don’t see the basketball atrocity being eloquently outlined in this thread. He is the 4th best player on the team, he’s only 20, and everyone bitching he’s the problem in the starting lineup and couldn’t tell it was Collins being the problem is a Spurstalk tragedy :lol