Spears: "Johnson The Odd Man Out In San Antonio?"

[TD 21]

For some reason, the link isn't working but it's in HoopsHype and from the Hoop Collective Podcast.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1735307983679058233

[spursparker9]

Can package Sochan with him?

[onechance87]

everybody should be on the table other then wemby

[SpurSpike]

I kinda hope not, imo he is our second best player and he and Wemby seem to be developing some chemistry unlike the other players on the team. Also, some of our few wins would not have happened without Keldon tbh.

[Dverde]

They are not trading him unless he asks.

[MultiTroll]

Another of Pops Pets.

Not going anywhere.

[The Truth #6]

I think he's our second best player. I think Vassell is great at shooting but takes very difficult shots for various reasons, which makes me question the size of his contract. Keldon's defense is bad but he at least shoots threes AND can successfully drive to the basket, which is needed. I don't see either of them in a top 3 of a great team, so there's that.

But I don't see them trading him, because it's not like they're going to trade for a point guard at this point. If they want better point guard play they just need to play Graham and Tre Jones more minutes, which they have obviously chosen not to do.

[spurraider21]

seems like he's just speculating, doesnt seem like theres a source actually suggesting he could be moved

ive been on team "keldon will be traded before his contract expires" but imo theres no point to moving him right now while a vast majority of the roster is still in limbo

[BatManu20]

I don’t think Keldon finishes his career as a Spur or even his current contract, but I don’t see any way we move him right now unless it’s along with draft capital for a young All-Star caliber player, which I really don’t see happening. Otherwise this just seems like speculation, as Spurraider above me said.

[Spurs Homer]

Why not Vassell? Branham? Collins?

[TimDunkem]

Why do Spurs fans always get attached to mid players? And why is anyone attached to anyone on this roster not named Wemby? Being the 2nd or 3rd best player on a team that won the top pick and still can only muster 3 wins is NOT impressive, and KJ is not the type of player that is exactly rare or anything.

[baseline bum]

Ship his ass out if they can get a PG with a three point shot or a swing who plays defense and can hit a wide open three. Dude is empty calories.

[Extra Stout]

People are high on Keldon today because he scored 28 last night. Yes, he can put up gaudy offensive numbers on occasion. And yes, it’s possible with Vassell’s regression that KJ is currently the second-best player on the Spurs.

Which is as good an explanation as any for why they’re 3-20.

[NASpurs]

Why do Spurs fans always get attached to mid players? And why is anyone attached to anyone on this roster not named Wemby? Being the 2nd or 3rd best player on a team that won the top pick and still can only muster 3 wins is NOT impressive, and KJ is not the type of player that is exactly rare or anything.

Exactly, the gulf between our best player and 2nd best player is so vast in a roster devoid of talent outside of Wemby. Like being the smartest retard in a class full of retards. It's not even a compliment :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This team really has one player who should be on a championship roster and that's Wemby. Vassell and Keldon are complimentary players but neither would qualify as a second or third star on any sort of contender. So if you can swap pieces for better pieces, I'd say do it. No one other than Wemby should be untouchable at this point.

[taps]

This team really has one player who should be on a championship roster and that's Wemby. Vassell and Keldon are complimentary players but neither would qualify as a second or third star on any sort of contender. So if you can swap pieces for better pieces, I'd say do it. No one other than Wemby should be untouchable at this point.

With Devin stinking scales sort of fell from my eyes. Focus on KJ trading I ignored the same faults in Vassell. I pretended he was a good defender. Part of it is smthg like Manu separation anxiety

[The Truth #6]

Some rambling:

Keldon's salary is very low compared to Vassell. I'd rather move Vassell but he might be harder to trade. In retrospect it is almost odd that they threw that money on Vassell if they were going to blow off this season with such a weird approach to coaching/designating point guard duties/holding players accountable. Yes, it's a long contract. But they were able to commit to him with some sense of hope, but then sabotage/tank everything else this year. Seems counterintuitive to me, and it's only going to be harder to flip a switch to start winning again. It will have to be a new coach in my opinion.

[CGD]

Another of Pops Pets.

Not going anywhere.

I mean, he dumped Derrick

[CGD]

I do wonder what Keldon's value is around the league. Given his age, i think a Derrick White type package is probably in the ball park. Derrick was better than Keldon at the time he was traded, but also older that Keldon who is cost controlled and on a decreasing deal. What do others think?

Something like:
GWG: Keldon/filler
SAS: CP3's expiring + Moody/Podemski + protected 28FRP

Spurs get a look at a young piece, but more importantly a decent asset when VW should be crushing it.

[The Truth #6]

I think Pet implies playing someone more minutes than they deserve. Branham might fit that better, but if he could onsistently play at his potential it would eventually be justified.

[lefty]

everybody should be on the table other then wemby
Even Vassell?

Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Spurs game this season , so maybe he stinks lol

[MultiTroll]

I do wonder what Keldon's value is around the league. Given his age, i think a Derrick White type package is probably in the ball park. Derrick was better than Keldon at the time he was traded, but also older that Keldon who is cost controlled and on a decreasing deal. What do others think?

Something like:
GWG: Keldon/filler
SAS: CP3's expiring + Moody/Podemski + protected 28FRP

Spurs get a look at a young piece, but more importantly a decent asset when VW should be crushing it.
I like it but is GSW going to give up either of those two and a pick for dumping CP0?
Ya i would do that.
Oh wait, having to stomach CPO in a Spurs uniform.....
Ok for a half year and the betternment of the team I'm on board.

[exstatic]

I do wonder what Keldon's value is around the league. Given his age, i think a Derrick White type package is probably in the ball park. Derrick was better than Keldon at the time he was traded, but also older that Keldon who is cost controlled and on a decreasing deal. What do others think?

Something like:
GWG: Keldon/filler
SAS: CP3's expiring + Moody/Podemski + protected 28FRP

Spurs get a look at a young piece, but more importantly a decent asset when VW should be crushing it.

That would be a one year shot to convey, since their 2030 pick is already traded.

[CGD]

I meant one of Moody/Podemski not both fyi.

Once there is even more separation between the top 3 shitbird teams (DET, WAS, and us) and the rest, I think we'll finally see Pop playing VW with a natural PG. CP3 would be great for a half season, though, more likely they buy him out so he can ring chase with the Lakers or some shit like that.

[KobesAchilles]

I kinda hope not, imo he is our second best player and he and Wemby seem to be developing some chemistry unlike the other players on the team. Also, some of our few wins would not have happened without Keldon tbh.
We have 3 wins. Calm down with the second best player on our team attitude. Dude plays loser basketball. No defense. No IQ. No court vision. You can't be in year 5 and still have no idea how to play defense. I didn't think it was mentally possible not to learn after 5 years but I was wrong

[CGD]

That would be a one year shot to convey, since their 2030 pick is already traded.

Yeah, i saw. Maybe that factors into the level of protections, or they could require a BOS-type swap right too. Honestly i'd prefer the picks to any players in the hopes of having as much ammo as possible when VW is good.

[baseline bum]

Exactly, the gulf between our best player and 2nd best player is so vast in a roster devoid of talent outside of Wemby. Like being the smartest retard in a class full of retards. It's not even a compliment :lol

So like being summa cum laude at UTSA?

[Extra Stout]

Even Vassell?

Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Spurs game this season , so maybe he stinks lol

He hasn’t stunk, but he hasn’t improved either. Some thought he would take that next step, but that is nowhere in sight. And the advanced stats say his reputation for being a good defender is illusory. Which the game results bear out.

[CGD]

The only other playoff teams with aspiration (not just ones happy to be there) for Keldon's services would Philly or the Knicks. Maybe i toss the Kings in there. The fit the profile of teams trying to take the next step but still in that tier below in their respective conferences.

Knicks have interesting picks from other teams, but i think I'd prefer far out ones from Philly the most at this point since Embiid will start to wear down here in the next 3-4 years.

[mexicanjunior]

He probably asked to be traded and this is coming from his agent. Why would he wanna stick around on this shit show?

[TD 21]

I do wonder what Keldon's value is around the league. Given his age, i think a Derrick White type package is probably in the ball park. Derrick was better than Keldon at the time he was traded, but also older that Keldon who is cost controlled and on a decreasing deal. What do others think?

Something like:
GWG: Keldon/filler
SAS: CP3's expiring + Moody/Podemski + protected 28FRP

Spurs get a look at a young piece, but more importantly a decent asset when VW should be crushing it.

I don't see either team being interested in that.

I suspect when the Spurs do move him (probably in 18 months max), it'll be either as part of a trade for a star (Johnson, Branham + significant draft capital for Mitchell?) or for a highly touted young player, who's fallen out of favor but theoretically fits better (Johnson + draft capital for Ivey + expiring salary filler?)



He hasn’t stunk, but he hasn’t improved either. Some thought he would take that next step, but that is nowhere in sight. And the advanced stats say his reputation for being a good defender is illusory. Which the game results bear out.

Not true. His play making has improved and his handle is clearly tighter, as he's able to execute combos that he couldn't as recently as last season. Not that either are good, but they were never going to be.

The jury is still out on his 3-point shooting, which has wildly fluctuated throughout his career.

[sananspursfan21]

Even Vassell?

Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Spurs game this season , so maybe he stinks lol

His play over the last ten games or so has been pretty underwhelming. Could be a product of playing losing basketball and being unmotivated, but still not promising.

[TekXX]

I think this FO and coach have a hard time believing their reach projects aren't working out so you probably won't see trades. There's no reason Keldon or Vassell want to leave, they're not getting this amount of playing time anywhere else.

[CGD]

I think this FO and coach have a hard time believing their reach projects aren't working out so you probably won't see trades. There's no reason Keldon or Vassell want to leave, they're not getting this amount of playing time anywhere else.

Who are the "reach projects" you think they are having a hard time letting go of?

[TekXX]

Who are the "reach projects" you think they are having a hard time letting go of?

The guys they draft.

[Bruno]

While Spurs might end up trading Keldon, I doubt it will be this season and even more to GSW. Warriors have nothing of interest for Spurs.

[Chinook]

People are high on Keldon today because he scored 28 last night. Yes, he can put up gaudy offensive numbers on occasion. And yes, it’s possible with Vassell’s regression that KJ is currently the second-best player on the Spurs.

Which is as good an explanation as any for why they’re 3-20.

Johnson's had a good year, not just a good night. To some extent it's to be expected, because he's the most actualized of the "young" players on the roster. But even as down on him as I was last year, I couldn't've asked for him to play better this year than he's currently playing. He's the only person providing consistent vertical spacing, which Wemby and Vassell are going to need to keep improving. While Johnson can and likely should be improved upon, he's not the odd man out in the context of someone like Branham or Collins.

[duncan2150]

We have 3 wins. Calm down with the second best player on our team attitude. Dude plays loser basketball. No defense. No IQ. No court vision. You can't be in year 5 and still have no idea how to play defense. I didn't think it was mentally possible not to learn after 5 years but I was wrong

He's not a basketball player for you lol

imo it's not fair

[LeBowen]

The problem is that Keldon needs to play like a first or second option, but he's not good enough to be anything more than a solid 6th man on a playoff team.

Yeah, his 3pt shot is solid now and he obviously worked very hard to improve it, but that's not his game. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Right now 40% of his shots are from behind the 3pt line. And he's attacking the rim less and less due to poor spacing.

Imo, there's no chance for him to improve even more and get to another level, so if there's a team with legit interest and it's a good offer, he should be moved.
Don't get rid of him just for the sake of making a trade.

[exstatic]

The problem is that Keldon needs to play like a first or second option, but he's not good enough to be anything more than a solid 6th man on a playoff team.

Yeah, his 3pt shot is solid now and he obviously worked very hard to improve it, but that's not his game. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Right now 40% of his shots are from behind the 3pt line. And he's attacking the rim less and less due to poor spacing.

Imo, there's no chance for him to improve even more and get to another level, so if there's a team with legit interest and it's a good offer, he should be moved.
Don't get rid of him just for the sake of making a trade.

He was pretty damn good in a support role playing off of DeRozan and Dejounte. His shooting is better as a catch and shoot guy.

[Spurs Homer]

Even Vassell?

Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Spurs game this season , so maybe he stinks lol

vassell sucks twice as hard as keldon and only half as much as branham…

[Seventyniner]

The problem is that Keldon needs to play like a first or second option, but he's not good enough to be anything more than a solid 6th man on a playoff team.

Yeah, his 3pt shot is solid now and he obviously worked very hard to improve it, but that's not his game. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Right now 40% of his shots are from behind the 3pt line. And he's attacking the rim less and less due to poor spacing.

Imo, there's no chance for him to improve even more and get to another level, so if there's a team with legit interest and it's a good offer, he should be moved.
Don't get rid of him just for the sake of making a trade.

That could stand to be higher, not lower. League average 3PAr (three point attempt rate; what % of a team's shots are threes) is 39.1%, and the Spurs as a team are currently 9th in the league at 40.8%. If you want 40% 3PAr as a team you would want your best shooters to be above that.

Edit: I just looked it up, Keldon's 3PAr is 42.6% right now. That's probably a good number, though for a 37.1% three point shooter like him (a bit above league average) I would be okay with it being even higher. Vassell is at 50.8% for comparison.

[Obstructed_View]

The only other playoff teams with aspiration (not just ones happy to be there) for Keldon's services would Philly or the Knicks. Maybe i toss the Kings in there. The fit the profile of teams trying to take the next step but still in that tier below in their respective conferences.

Knicks have interesting picks from other teams, but i think I'd prefer far out ones from Philly the most at this point since Embiid will start to wear down here in the next 3-4 years.
The Warriors need him, and there is a draft pick I really want that they have.

[TDomination]

I'd keep Johnson...as a 6th man.
thats it.

I do like him in moments. He has an energy about him that can be contagious. But his BBIQ just needs to be better.
but since its unlikely that he ends up as a bench player, I'd rather he be moved.

[TheGreatYacht]

Would be an absolute massive mistake to trade 1 of the only 3 NBA players you have on the roster. He's better than Vassell, sorry. People shit on his defense like Devin isn't a net negative on that side himself. Out of all perimeter players, he's the one that feeds Victor the most. He was the one that fed Victor last night on the second clutch three, as well as the lob.

Sadly with the retard we have running this titanic, this rumor sounds the par. The same retard that reached on a late first round prospect in Josh Primo and picked him in the lottery. The same retard that had the riches of 3 first rounders last summer and used them on the worst players in the league, analytically.

Look at all the young pieces Houston has. Sengun, Green, Smith, Eason, Thompson, Whitmore. Who do we have if Keldon gets traded? Wemby, Vassell and fucking scrubs that are unplayable in Sochan, Branham, Wesley, Champagnie. A joke. Get rid of those cancerous whiffs first and get actual NBA players.

Keldon is always being scapegoated for the old man's dementia. He's the new Lonnie Walker to Spurs fans. Start an actual PG in Tre Jones first and see what how the team looks.

[kxs783kms]

Why do Spurs fans always get attached to mid players? And why is anyone attached to anyone on this roster not named Wemby? Being the 2nd or 3rd best player on a team that won the top pick and still can only muster 3 wins is NOT impressive, and KJ is not the type of player that is exactly rare or anything.

And exactly what superstar or all-star player have the Spurs ever overpaid to bring in? Yes KJ is a mid tier player but you're acting like the Spurs will be bringing in somebody significantly better. I would love to have mid tier D. White right now vs what we have but they let him go too.

[TheGreatYacht]

To those Spurm fans that still think Vassell is a two way player.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZlVZZyX0AIczD2.jpg:large

Keldon took a friendly contract of 4yr/74M. Vassell didn't. Never forget that. 5yr/135M.....

[spurraider21]

I'd keep Johnson...as a 6th man.
thats it.

I do like him in moments. He has an energy about him that can be contagious. But his BBIQ just needs to be better.
but since its unlikely that he ends up as a bench player, I'd rather he be moved.
his defense is his limiting factor... for as much of an energy guy he is, my god, he can be lazy and unaware on D. even when he does something well, he just cant stack it onto another good play. this play stuck out to me yesterday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fuKS7SiFM0

first i was thrilled because a smart double came. in many of our games, you'd see the guy in branham's position go for the double and give up a ridiculously easy 3. this time, keldon made the correct decision. sochan then moves to cover for keldon and plays between the two guys. good. keldon's double is effective, distracts davis enough for wemby to swipe at the ball, AD has to pick it up. good. as soon as he passes it out, johnson turns around and starts... jogging toward the corner. we'll get back to that. when the pass is made from prince to hachimura at the top of the arc, sochan is already there on time, and vassell is also in time to rotate and cover sochan's man, russell. truth be told, vassell could have rotated a little earlier, but its not the point for now. keldon is still jogging. only after reddish is up for his shot does keldon start showing hustle to contest the shot, but its too late. splash

once keldon helped force the AD pass, he had to immediately haul ass and sprint to the corner to be back in time. instead a good play by him, followed by good (enough) rotations by his teammates, all goes to waste because he doesnt finish his portion of the play. just so frustrating. and this was a moment in the game where i was talking to the TV saying "oh nice defense!"... no. like, keldon is usually pretty nonchalant on D, but it was just a killer to see that ruin what had actually been a nice play

to be fair, vassell was late too. sochan correctly rotated to be in between hachimura and russell. as sochan rotated, vassell also should have positioned himself between reddish and russell. he was late but russell made the extra pass anyway. ultimately, i think the distance wasnt big enough for it to matter much, but its little things like that which even vassell is struggling with. but with keldon its just consistently lethargic

[Chinook]

his defense is his limiting factor... for as much of an energy guy he is, my god, he can be lazy and unaware on D. even when he does something well, he just cant stack it onto another good play. this play stuck out to me yesterday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fuKS7SiFM0

first i was thrilled because a smart double came. in many of our games, you'd see the guy in branham's position go for the double and give up a ridiculously easy 3. this time, keldon made the correct decision. sochan then moves to cover for keldon and plays between the two guys. good. keldon's double is effective, distracts davis enough for wemby to swipe at the ball, AD has to pick it up. good. as soon as he passes it out, johnson turns around and starts... jogging toward the corner. we'll get back to that. when the pass is made from prince to hachimura at the top of the arc, sochan is already there on time, and vassell is also in time to rotate and cover sochan's man, russell. truth be told, vassell could have rotated a little earlier, but its not the point for now. keldon is still jogging. only after reddish is up for his shot does keldon start showing hustle to contest the shot, but its too late. splash

once keldon helped force the AD pass, he had to immediately haul ass and sprint to the corner to be back in time. instead a good play by him, followed by good (enough) rotations by his teammates, all goes to waste because he doesnt finish his portion of the play. just so frustrating. and this was a moment in the game where i was talking to the TV saying "oh nice defense!"... no. like, keldon is usually pretty nonchalant on D, but it was just a killer to see that ruin what had actually been a nice play

to be fair, vassell was late too. sochan correctly rotated to be in between hachimura and russell. as sochan rotated, vassell also should have positioned himself between reddish and russell. he was late but russell made the extra pass anyway. ultimately, i think the distance wasnt big enough for it to matter much, but its little things like that which even vassell is struggling with. but with keldon its just consistently lethargic

I actually think Vassell is late BECAUSE Keldon is late on that play Vassell can't go too early without giving up the skip pass. So he has to wait until the pass is made, but because Keldon is slow, Vassell can't move up so that he doesn't have to start from as far back. He also can't cheat up early, because he'd be above the line of ball and man and basically give up a back-door layup. If Keldon were closer, I think Vassell would've felt comfortable passing his man off a second earlier, which probably makes a completely clean rotation. I noticed that play too, both during the game and during that mistakes video. There was very little reason for Keldon to hesitate there. As soon as Davis picks up his dribble, Johnson is supposed to sprint to the corner. Wemby has to be able to contest anything AD can do from a set position without help. Johnson also jumped to try to disrupt the pass, which is a type of gamble the Spurs wings do way too often. That just slowed him down more. In reality, Johnson shouldn't've even been there by the time the pass was made, but he certainly shouldn't be jumping like that. That other Spurs do the same thing worries me that it might be a coaching decision rather than just a mistake.

[spurraider21]

I actually think Vassell is late BECAUSE Keldon is late on that play Vassell can't go too early without giving up the skip pass. So he has to wait until the pass is made, but because Keldon is slow, Vassell can't move up so that he doesn't have to start from as far back. He also can't cheat up early, because he'd be above the line of ball and man and basically give up a back-door layup. If Keldon were closer, I think Vassell would've felt comfortable passing his man off a second earlier, which probably makes a completely clean rotation. I noticed that play too, both during the game and during that mistakes video. There was very little reason for Keldon to hesitate there. As soon as Davis picks up his dribble, Johnson is supposed to sprint to the corner. Wemby has to be able to contest anything AD can do from a set position without help. Johnson also jumped to try to disrupt the pass, which is a type of gamble the Spurs wings do way too often. That just slowed him down more. In reality, Johnson shouldn't've even been there by the time the pass was made, but he certainly shouldn't be jumping like that. That other Spurs do the same thing worries me that it might be a coaching decision rather than just a mistake.
you're probably right on vassell. i was considering the backdoor cut, but keldon was already in that area by then, even if he hadnt made it all the way to the corner. either way, keldon was the bigger culprit here

i didnt know there was already a "mistakes" video for yesterday's game lol, i'll have to check it out. does that guy still whine every time the spurs decide not to have collins switch onto a guard?

[Chinook]

you're probably right on vassell. i was considering the backdoor cut, but keldon was already in that area by then, even if he hadnt made it all the way to the corner. either way, keldon was the bigger culprit here

i didnt know there was already a "mistakes" video for yesterday's game lol, i'll have to check it out. does that guy still whine every time the spurs decide not to have collins switch onto a guard?

He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5undIQF5-Zw&t=5s&ab_channel=FilmSession

[CGD]

The guys they draft.

Lol

[spurraider21]

He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5undIQF5-Zw&t=5s&ab_channel=FilmSession
the keldon play we were discussing didnt seem to make it into this vid. i mean, at least in that play the guys were all somewhat doing the right thing, keldon just lacked hustle

[Leetonidas]

He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5undIQF5-Zw&t=5s&ab_channel=FilmSession

This guy cracks me up :lol

[John B]

If he can be traded to get an Ivey, then yes Keldon is the best candidate

[Arcadian]

I traded Keldon for Chris Paul in 2K and it worked out pretty well, tbh

(We also got Moody and Looney in the deal)

[Chinook]

the keldon play we were discussing didnt seem to make it into this vid. i mean, at least in that play the guys were all somewhat doing the right thing, keldon just lacked hustle

Maybe I was thinking of the Branham play at 7:02, which is the same rotation that gets messed up in a similar way.

[Chinook]

This guy cracks me up :lol

He's entertaining even if hyperbolic (basically thinks every coach whose teams he covers are also just as bad). But I think it's important for folks who actually want to talk about the Spurs' defensive issues to get a sense of what they're not doing well. Watching this guy's videos definitely underscores how much of defense is just being coached and disciplined compared to having physical tools. The Spurs could absolutely be an average defense with the player they have, if not really good given they have Wemby. But they can't do that if they keep making all of these mental errors. Just have preset rules and stick with those, and they'll work most of the time.

[spurraider21]

He's entertaining even if hyperbolic (basically thinks every coach whose teams he covers are also just as bad). But I think it's important for folks who actually want to talk about the Spurs' defensive issues to get a sense of what they're not doing well. Watching this guy's videos definitely underscores how much of defense is just being coached and disciplined compared to having physical tools. The Spurs could absolutely be an average defense with the player they have, if not really good given they have Wemby. But they can't do that if they keep making all of these mental errors. Just have preset rules and stick with those, and they'll work most of the time.
a lot of these aren't really mental errors happening on the court, its clearly the techniques they are taught, like how they are approaching the sideline screens

[Chinook]

a lot of these aren't really mental errors happening on the court, its clearly the techniques they are taught, like how they are approaching the sideline screens

I agree on a lot of that -- and those videos certainly don't let you forget the coaching issues -- but I don't think Pop is telling them to defend with their backs to the sideline, not sprinting in transition and not boxing out. On that last point, the Spurs are amazing bad at boxing out. Collins is okay, and Bassey was okay for a bench big. Keldon is decent for a wing. But those are the only guys in the top 150 players. An underrated aspect of the Medium Three Spurs teams were Kawhi's insane ability to rebound and Green's ability to box out PFs to allow his guys to get boards. 2-5 all contributed to securing boards. Nowadays, the Spurs seem to have no idea how to do it. It's probably not the case that Pop is instructing them to avoiding box-outs, and I doubt they never learned how to do it at other levels. They just don't seem to pay attention to their guy after the shot goes up.

[poopbox]

I don’t think Keldon finishes his career as a Spur or even his current contract, but I don’t see any way we move him right now unless it’s along with draft capital for a young All-Star caliber player, which I really don’t see happening. Otherwise this just seems like speculation, as Spurraider above me said.

Who's giving up a young star for Keldon and some Hawks picks in the mid teens :lol

[spurraider21]

I agree on a lot of that -- and those videos certainly don't let you forget the coaching issues -- but I don't think Pop is telling them to defend with their backs to the sideline, not sprinting in transition and not boxing out. On that last point, the Spurs are amazing bad at boxing out. Collins is okay, and Bassey was okay for a bench big. Keldon is decent for a wing. But those are the only guys in the top 150 players. An underrated aspect of the Medium Three Spurs teams were Kawhi's insane ability to rebound and Green's ability to box out PFs to allow his guys to get boards. 2-5 all contributed to securing boards. Nowadays, the Spurs seem to have no idea how to do it. It's probably not the case that Pop is instructing them to avoiding box-outs, and I doubt they never learned how to do it at other levels. They just don't seem to pay attention to their guy after the shot goes up.
im not saying you're making this up, but this is the kind of thing that you could easily make up because you love danny :lol

[rankingtear]

He hasn’t stunk, but he hasn’t improved either. Some thought he would take that next step, but that is nowhere in sight. And the advanced stats say his reputation for being a good defender is illusory. Which the game results bear out.

EPM does have him as 88 percentile on defense and 92 percentile scoring at the rim. He did improve a ton on 2 of his major weakness last season.

[Chinook]

im not saying you're making this up, but this is the kind of thing that you could easily make up because you love danny :lol

At the same time, there are reasons I was a huge fan. I will say that every regular season from 2011-2012 to 2017-2018, the Spurs rebounded better when Danny was on the floor than when he was on the bench. Only in 2016-2017 did the team allow offensive rebounds at a higher rate with Danny on the floor (the Spurs just had enough of their own offensive boards to make the whole year positive). Playoffs had more variance. I think that had to do with the different ways Pop would use Green and Kawhi in the playoffs as well as the higher level of competition in general, especially when talking about starters. They were always good, but some years the bench was better.

[Obstructed_View]

At the same time, there are reasons I was a huge fan. I will say that every regular season from 2011-2012 to 2017-2018, the Spurs rebounded better when Danny was on the floor than when he was on the bench. Only in 2016-2017 did the team allow offensive rebounds at a higher rate with Danny on the floor (the Spurs just had enough of their own offensive boards to make the whole year positive). Playoffs had more variance. I think that had to do with the different ways Pop would use Green and Kawhi in the playoffs as well as the higher level of competition in general, especially when talking about starters. They were always good, but some years the bench was better.
Greatest one on three defender in NBA history.

[The Truth #6]

This guy cracks me up :lol

Yikes. But I'm sure he's a very supportive father. Lol.

[baseline bum]

Yikes. But I'm sure he's a very supportive father. Lol.

Is that guy Lewis Black's druggie son or some shit?

[Chinook]

Greatest one on three defender in NBA history.

It's a shame Danny isn't remembered as the best transition defender of his era because Lebron got a chase-down block on Iggy one time.

[LeBowen]

That could stand to be higher, not lower. League average 3PAr (three point attempt rate; what % of a team's shots are threes) is 39.1%, and the Spurs as a team are currently 9th in the league at 40.8%. If you want 40% 3PAr as a team you would want your best shooters to be above that.

Edit: I just looked it up, Keldon's 3PAr is 42.6% right now. That's probably a good number, though for a 37.1% three point shooter like him (a bit above league average) I would be okay with it being even higher. Vassell is at 50.8% for comparison.


Yeah, but if you ask me, Keldon isn't the guy who's scoring output should come mainly from shooting threes.
Vassell for example is, but we all got hyped about Keldon because of his motor and the ability to constantly attack the paint.
That has been completely neutered over the past year or so.

[JeffDuncan]

[Keldon’s] defense is his limiting factor... this play stuck out to me yesterday.
…
first i was thrilled because a smart double came. in many of our games, you'd see the guy in branham's position go for the double and give up a ridiculously easy 3. …


So it’s better that Keldon gives up a 3 than that Branham does? Oh, never mind.

The smartness of that double by Keldon is arguable. It looks like game plan, tho, so Keldon probably can’t be faulted for trying it.



this time, keldon made the correct decision. sochan then moves to cover for keldon and plays between the two guys. good. keldon's double is effective, distracts davis enough for wemby to swipe at the ball, AD has to pick it up. good. as soon as he passes it out, johnson turns around and starts... jogging toward the corner. …


The team did get the rotations correct, at least. That’s progress.

You missed the first problem with what Keldon did. He jumped at Davis’ pass.

The jump, which accomplished absolutely nothing good, put Keldon 6 or 7’ farther from where he needed to go, to rotate, and it gave him momentum in the wrong direction. The jump contributed significantly to the delay in Keldon getting across to the corner.

If Keldon had knocked it off, with that foolish jump, and just rotated, he would probably have gotten there in time.

Notice Branham jumping at the ball, also, when Davis passed. The idiots think they’re kangaroos.

On another note, Victor needs some serious big-man coaching, which the Spurs are obviously incompetent to provide. When Victor has his elbows in, and his hands in front, (as that video shows,) he’s maybe 3’ wide, if that. When Victor extends his arms he’s 8’ wide. It doesn’t take a math major to know which is better for defense.

The whole team would do better if they’d stop the foolish kangaroo imitations, and stop swiping at the ball pointlessly, and just extend their arms and play defense. But that would take coaching to achieve.

[spurraider21]

So it’s better that Keldon gives up a 3 than that Branham does? Oh, never mind.
Huh? If branham doubled there it would have been a disaster since that’s just a simple pass from Davis with no opportunity to rotate. It’s the proverbial “double team from one pass away” when that happens. That’s bad.

this is why I’m glad that in this scenario, the double came from keldon and not branham

[CGD]

While Spurs might end up trading Keldon, I doubt it will be this season and even more to GSW. Warriors have nothing of interest for Spurs.

You’re probably right on next year. I think distant picks of quality would get the Spurs attention, and teams whose stars will be in the decline soon like GSW, Philly, etc should be top targets. In think that CP3 contract will start burning a hole in GSW’s pocket if they don’t use it as an expiring this year.

The other team to watch is the Knicks, who have interesting assets. They were said to be saving their war chest for Embiid or Towns, but both of their teams have righted their ships. Would they get desperate and look for less high profile players now? Do the Spurs like IQ enough?

[JeffDuncan]

Huh?…


You really do think it’s better that Keldon gave up the 3 than that Branham did.

You’re funny.

[spurraider21]

You really do think it’s better that Keldon gave up the 3 than that Branham did.

You’re funny.
sure jan

[JeffDuncan]

sure jan


Sure, spunky. Rofl

[Obstructed_View]

So it’s better that Keldon gives up a 3 than that Branham does? Oh, never mind.

The smartness of that double by Keldon is arguable. It looks like game plan, tho, so Keldon probably can’t be faulted for trying it.




The team did get the rotations correct, at least. That’s progress.

You missed the first problem with what Keldon did. He jumped at Davis’ pass.

The jump, which accomplished absolutely nothing good, put Keldon 6 or 7’ farther from where he needed to go, to rotate, and it gave him momentum in the wrong direction. The jump contributed significantly to the delay in Keldon getting across to the corner.

If Keldon had knocked it off, with that foolish jump, and just rotated, he would probably have gotten there in time.

Notice Branham jumping at the ball, also, when Davis passed. The idiots think they’re kangaroos.

On another note, Victor needs some serious big-man coaching, which the Spurs are obviously incompetent to provide. When Victor has his elbows in, and his hands in front, (as that video shows,) he’s maybe 3’ wide, if that. When Victor extends his arms he’s 8’ wide. It doesn’t take a math major to know which is better for defense.

The whole team would do better if they’d stop the foolish kangaroo imitations, and stop swiping at the ball pointlessly, and just extend their arms and play defense. But that would take coaching to achieve.
I remember when nothing was more important than five guys sprinting back on defense. Now at least one guy unnecessarily goes for an offensive rebound or a steal on nearly every missed basket.

[TimmyBuckets]

KJ is a fan favorite and always brings that energy but he also might be looking to contend on another team and Spurs might again not be able to make playin next year even if they don’t purposely tank.

[Chinook]

What a difference a win makes. Now that there's finally another W to divide up, a number of players have seen boosts to their impact stats. Keldon is pretty comfortably the most-positive of all the main players in terms of his impact stats. Obviously the dude has nothing on Victor in terms of potential, but Johnson's numbers are starting to back up the improvement some of us have been seeing qualitatively and that simple box-score stats have suggested. If Wemby can hold up physically at center, I don't think there's a big argument for Keldon being out at this point. And anyone suggesting he's freezing out Wemby or in general hogging the ball haven't paid attention to the stats. Johnson is only fourth on the team in USG% behind Victor, Devin and Zach of all people. Even defensively he's not as bad as some are thinking. They often see him getting beat and blame him when he got caught between two people due to earlier breakdowns. I am not saying he can't be improved on, but I do think the narrative is lagging behind reality.

[tim_duncan_fan]

The "Keldon ballhogs" thing has never made any damned sense. He arguably looks the most natural of anyone when trying to score, especially trying to get near the bucket. The issue has been him needing to focus and simply consistently repeat the things that work for him. He doesn't take a ton of shots and usually has good FG%. Nevermind him visibly becoming better as a passer.

He does suck ass on D though.