Spurs have had a top 5 Defensive Rating since Wemby switched to Center

[CorrectCrusader]

The Spurs have climbed to a top-5 defense with a 111.1 DRTG since Victor Wembanyama started playing center.


They were ranked dead last before, with a 119.5 defensive rating.

Statistical comparison: Left (PF) Right (playing at C) 18.9 PTS -> 19.8 PTS


2.5 AST -> 3.5 AST


9.7 REB -> 16.5 REB


2.6 BLK -> 4.3 BLK


43.2 FG% -> 44.9 FG%


26.5 3P% -> 35.3 3P%

[CorrectCrusader]

Here's the source (https://twitter.com/clutchpoints/status/1736073472215003605) btw

[Chinook]

It seems like he is a bigger improvement on Collins than Sochan is a downgrade from Wemby at PF. That's a credit to Jeremy stepping it up at his natural position more than it's a diss to Wemby, since he's obviously flourishing so far at C. I'd say to wait for him to go up against Jokic to see if he can play the position full time, but he's already done so and looks fine. He bothered Nikola quite a bit and didn't seem too beat up from the experience. I guess we'll see against Embiid.

[TrainOfThought5]

It seems like he is a bigger improvement on Collins than Sochan is a downgrade from Wemby at PF. That's a credit to Jeremy stepping it up at his natural position more than it's a diss to Wemby, since he's obviously flourishing so far at C. I'd say to wait for him to go up against Jokic to see if he can play the position full time, but he's already done so and looks fine. He bothered Nikola quite a bit and didn't seem too beat up from the experience. I guess we'll see against Embiid.

synergy. If Sochan starts at the 4, that means we get either Tre or Branham starting. That’s a huge improvement over PG Sochan.

[Obstructed_View]

Since Zach Collins stopped being the starting center.

[Kurgan]

Since Zach Collins stopped being the starting center.

Since Zach Collins stopped being a starter...period. The guy fucking sucks.

[RC_Drunkford]

pretty crazy that giving up 111 points makes you a top 5 defense. Welcome to the new NBA. I think the Houston game is kinda manipulating those stats quite a bit though. Would be great to see a good defensive Spurs team. It's been a while.

[paperboy77]

It seems like he is a bigger improvement on Collins than Sochan is a downgrade from Wemby at PF. That's a credit to Jeremy stepping it up at his natural position more than it's a diss to Wemby, since he's obviously flourishing so far at C. I'd say to wait for him to go up against Jokic to see if he can play the position full time, but he's already done so and looks fine. He bothered Nikola quite a bit and didn't seem too beat up from the experience. I guess we'll see against Embiid.


Kinda hate a take like this. I imagine this is similar to the dumb group-think going on in the front office. People act like every team has a beast of a center. Beast of a center is like Embidf.... and that's it! Yes someone who is focused on just being physical with him can be a problem in the regular season but as far as the centers in this league is largely nonexistent.

[Chinook]

Kinda hate a take like this. I imagine this is similar to the dumb group-think going on in the front office. People act like every team has a beast of a center. Beast of a center is like Embidf.... and that's it! Yes someone who is focused on just being physical with him can be a problem in the regular season but as far as the centers in this league is largely nonexistent.

Hate the take if you want, but Wemby struggling to guard physical centers in a single game might suggests a longer-term issue of how his body will hold up against more games, even if the individual games aren't as bad. We're still waiting and seeing if he's going to start to decline under the greater toll he's under. Like he's getting more rebounds and blocks and all that, but that means he's fighting with guys and contesting drives more often than before. For a guy who already has fatigue concerns, it's an important question. So yeah if Jokic came in and gassed Wemby, it'd be a concern. Not every team has a guy who can beat Wemby one-on-one, but most teams have a least one guy who can pound on him. That's not nearly as easy to do to PFs, who usually have the weakside help responsibility or defend on the perimeter.

[MultiTroll]

Hate the take if you want, but Wemby struggling to guard physical centers in a single game might suggests a longer-term issue of how his body will hold up against more games, even if the individual games aren't as bad. We're still waiting and seeing if he's going to start to decline under the greater toll he's under. Like he's getting more rebounds and blocks and all that, but that means he's fighting with guys and contesting drives more often than before. For a guy who already has fatigue concerns, it's an important question. So yeah if Jokic came in and gassed Wemby, it'd be a concern. Not every team has a guy who can beat Wemby one-on-one, but most teams have a least one guy who can pound on him. That's not nearly as easy to do to PFs, who usually have the weakside help responsibility or defend on the perimeter.
Concur. And we still don't have any certified muscle next to Wemby for support.
Timmy Dunks laboring alongside Bonbon and Mike Finley. Shudders.

[ginobilized]

Collins is a decent backup center for this team. Plays to his strengths and he gets to get more time vs 2nd stringers. Much more in line with his talent level.

[Obstructed_View]

Hate the take if you want, but Wemby struggling to guard physical centers in a single game might suggests a longer-term issue of how his body will hold up against more games, even if the individual games aren't as bad. We're still waiting and seeing if he's going to start to decline under the greater toll he's under. Like he's getting more rebounds and blocks and all that, but that means he's fighting with guys and contesting drives more often than before. For a guy who already has fatigue concerns, it's an important question. So yeah if Jokic came in and gassed Wemby, it'd be a concern. Not every team has a guy who can beat Wemby one-on-one, but most teams have a least one guy who can pound on him. That's not nearly as easy to do to PFs, who usually have the weakside help responsibility or defend on the perimeter.
Victor struggles less with physical bigs than he does with small guys because they get low and root him out and he doesn't get the whistle. Someone was fronting him in the first Laker game the other day and he couldn't get position. His teammates absolutely don't understand how to make an entry pass, so they can just wear him out.

[Obstructed_View]

Collins is a decent backup center for this team. Plays to his strengths and he gets to get more time vs 2nd stringers. Much more in line with his talent level.
He is terrific as a backup. He can play all three front line positions against second teams. AD fucking wore him out.

[CGD]

It seems like he is a bigger improvement on Collins than Sochan is a downgrade from Wemby at PF. That's a credit to Jeremy stepping it up at his natural position more than it's a diss to Wemby, since he's obviously flourishing so far at C. I'd say to wait for him to go up against Jokic to see if he can play the position full time, but he's already done so and looks fine. He bothered Nikola quite a bit and didn't seem too beat up from the experience. I guess we'll see against Embiid.

Embiid and Joker are on another level, but he’s looked good against post dominant bigs like AD, Vuc, and Joker himself. That’s encouraging.

[TheBallsbreakers]

As expected, with Collins out of the starting lineup.

[TD 21]

At least they have a chance to function with this rotation and graduate from historically to run of the mill bad.


He is terrific as a backup. He can play all three front line positions against second teams. AD fucking wore him out.

:lmao Collins can only play C.

[Obstructed_View]

At least they have a chance to function with this rotation and graduate from historically to run of the mill bad.



:lmao Collins can only play C.
Collins can barely play center. He isn't appreciably worse at the three or four.

[TD 21]

Collins can barely play center. He isn't appreciably worse at the three or four.

He's never played SF and only played some nominal PF years ago because the Trail Blazers lacked financial flexibility and wanted him to have a bigger role than exclusively backing up Nurkic.

This isn't the 90s. In today's game, despite certain physical limitations for it, he's a C by default.

[spurraider21]

SF Collins? Are we talking about the wrong Collins again?

[Ignazzz]

Better stats are connected with power ranking Of oponents

[John B]

I’m not surprised. It is Wemby’s natural position. I never doubted Pop would eventually get Wemby back playing C, and was just giving Wemby time at SF/PF to get him NBA stronger to avoid getting pounded in the paint early in the season. But Wemby has proven he is much tougher than anyone has thought, and can actually man the paint. I think Pop also wants to help Wemby get his stats up there to have a better chance at ROTY, especially after Chet won the 1st month. I’m sure Wemby will not admit, but it’s part of his legacy to win it and Pop will oblige to help the Spurs franchise player get it.

[SouthernFryd]

I like Collins. But, yeah...true big centers own him. Not because Collins ain't strong...he just doesn't know how to use his strength. He goes for ball fakes like a Jr. High baller.

He's a perfect backup center or even a PF alongside Wemby. Got great touch, good court vision. Needs to work on D. I also thought BASSEY would have made a good "muscle" guy alongside Wemby.

There's been a lot of games Collins has been the best player on the court. Especially when they use him as a playmaker in the top of the key center position.

[LeBowen]

Sample size is small, but enough for anyone with eyes to see that Wemby should play C in every game.
Matched up well against Jokic and AD, meaning that he can play C against anyone in the league.

Collins can be the backup, but nothing more.

Spurs should look for a PF that compliments Wemby well.
There ae rumors about Markkanen not being untouchable.
Would be a perfect combo, if you ask me.

[Dejounte]

The perfect PF next to Wemby is a supercharged version of Cedi Osman, tbh. The eventual championship team that Wemby will be on wont have a star at every starter position. There needs to be a garbage man/ all around player that wont get many shots but will do everything else. Since it’s easier to find a star at the other positions, it makes sense to not invest too much in the PF position with their draft picks or cap space.

[CorrectCrusader]

The perfect PF next to Wemby is a supercharged version of Cedi Osman, tbh. The eventual championship team that Wemby will be on wont have a star at every starter position. There needs to be a garbage man/ all around player that wont get many shots but will do everything else. Since it’s easier to find a star at the other positions, it makes sense to not invest too much in the PF position with their draft picks or cap space.

Agree, sounds like OG maybe?

[Dejounte]

Agree, sounds like OG maybe?

too expensive and too small. Plus, theres zero rush to get this guy when we have guys there that are competent enough to not be the reason for our losing woes. The team is lacking an offensive player whose game isnt centered on his shot being on or off (looking at Vassell). A player that is a threat on offense at all three levels and passing. That should be the main focus.

[Dejounte]

But players like Aaron Gordon or Jaden McDaniels would be perfect. No stiffs on defense like John Collins, Lauri M, etc. these players have to be versatile on defense… meaning be very nimble.

[SpursBills]

But players like Aaron Gordon or Jaden McDaniels would be perfect. No stiffs on defense like John Collins, Lauri M, etc. these players have to be versatile on defense… meaning be very nimble.

Honestly this is probably jeremy sochan if he gets back on track with his development. At least at the end of last year it looked like sochan could be that guy.

[John B]

Vassells inconsistencies comes from having to create too much and forced to take difficult shots. A quality PG should help including Vassell gets easier shots.

[baseline bum]

Hope this isn't just a case of small sample size. Guess we'll see if New Orleans puts 130 on the Spurs in a couple of hours.

[Dejounte]

Honestly this is probably jeremy sochan if he gets back on track with his development. At least at the end of last year it looked like sochan could be that guy.

Yeah, for the record i’m not writing Sochan off. But with the current state of the team you have to be open to all possibilities. All the years the Spurs kept drafting a combo PG turned out to be fruitful strategically. You dont commit until players cement themselves as long term pieces. Vassell achieved that status because every winning team needs a ahooter like him and his leadership + chemistry in the locker room cemented it.

[Dejounte]

The same reason why Vassell needs someone to set him up to be consistent is the same reason why a team constructed with him as the #1 or #2 guy (when the #1 guy is not a playmaker) is going to fail like the Spurs have. If Wemby is a long term Spur, then Vassell will always be the #3 guy at best once the team starts winning consistently.

if anything, the Paul George comparisons should die now. Paul never needed a point guard to play at his level and Vassell never had the ball handling he has. There were even Kawhi comparisons early on his career and that Vassell would “bulk up” easily. Turns out players dont bulk up if they dont have the frame for it. Vassell is at his best taking shots when he takes at most, 3 dribbles.

[SpursBills]

The same reason why Vassell needs someone to set him up to be consistent is the same reason why a team constructed with him as the #1 or #2 guy (when the #1 guy is not a playmaker) is going to fail like the Spurs have. If Wemby is a long term Spur, then Vassell will always be the #3 guy at best once the team starts winning consistently.

if anything, the Paul George comparisons should die now. Paul never needed a point guard to play at his level and Vassell never had the ball handling he has. There were even Kawhi comparisons early on his career and that Vassell would “bulk up” easily. Turns out players dont bulk up if they dont have the frame for it. Vassell is at his best taking shots when he takes at most, 3 dribbles.

Vassell is probably at his best as a 3 point spacer and tough shot maker. Offense bogs down, shot clock winding down, need a bucket to bail you out, kobe style tough shot maker. Or a scheme busting mid-range guy when defenses nowadays are geared toward stopping rim attempts and 3 pointers. Which is fine, every great team needs one of those, but I agree that he shouldn't be looked upon as a guy you run your offense through. All he really needs in my eyes to justify his current contract is to get to the rim more and play defense. But the team needs a true initiator badly to maximize its potential.

[Dejounte]

One more thing

The presumption is that the Spurs are drafting in the top five this year. And, there have been signs and pictures that theyre looking into Nikola Topic.

The assumption is, having a passer like Topic will make Vassell more consistent/ be a better player.

BUT… folks shouldn’t believe that this is what the Spurs are drafting Topic for.

with a top 5 pick, the Spurs have to believe that whoever theyre drafting… regardless of if that player is the perfect complement to players currently on the roster… has the potential to be a franchise player on their team… over the guy they drafted at #11. THAT should be the expectation with a pick that high and not simply to have a guy who can pass.

so, this is part of my reasoning of why I say Vassell is the third guy on this team because by default, he should be… if the Spurs do their due diligence with this pick.

[CorrectCrusader]

One more thing

The presumption is that the Spurs are drafting in the top five this year. And, there have been signs and pictures that theyre looking into Nikola Topic.

The assumption is, having a passer like Topic will make Vassell more consistent/ be a better player.

BUT… folks shouldn’t believe that this is what the Spurs are drafting Topic for.

with a top 5 pick, the Spurs have to believe that whoever theyre drafting… regardless of if that player is the perfect complement to players currently on the roster… has the potential to be a franchise player on their team… over the guy they drafted at #11. THAT should be the expectation with a pick that high and not simply to have a guy who can pass.

so, this is part of my reasoning of why I say Vassell is the third guy on this team because by default, he should be… if the Spurs do their due diligence with this pick.

Agree, this would be more obvious to us if the draft had more top tier talents.

[DAF86]

The same reason why Vassell needs someone to set him up to be consistent is the same reason why a team constructed with him as the #1 or #2 guy (when the #1 guy is not a playmaker) is going to fail like the Spurs have. If Wemby is a long term Spur, then Vassell will always be the #3 guy at best once the team starts winning consistently.

if anything, the Paul George comparisons should die now. Paul never needed a point guard to play at his level and Vassell never had the ball handling he has. There were even Kawhi comparisons early on his career and that Vassell would “bulk up” easily. Turns out players dont bulk up if they dont have the frame for it. Vassell is at his best taking shots when he takes at most, 3 dribbles.

There were Vassell/PG13 comparissons?

[baseline bum]

Guess we'll see if New Orleans puts 130 on the Spurs in a couple of hours.

Bump :lol

[Mal]

Pels with franchise record in made 3pt shots :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Vassells inconsistencies comes from having to create too much and forced to take difficult shots. A quality PG should help including Vassell gets easier shots.
He isn't forced to take those shots. He chooses to take those shots because he's a black hole.

[RC_Drunkford]

The perfect PF next to Wemby is a supercharged version of Cedi Osman, tbh. The eventual championship team that Wemby will be on wont have a star at every starter position. There needs to be a garbage man/ all around player that wont get many shots but will do everything else. Since it’s easier to find a star at the other positions, it makes sense to not invest too much in the PF position with their draft picks or cap space.

the perfect PF next to Wemby would be Jaren Jackson Jr.

[scott]

Hope this isn't just a case of small sample size. Guess we'll see if New Orleans puts 130 on the Spurs in a couple of hours.

Optimistic AF :lol

[Dejounte]

the perfect PF next to Wemby would be Jaren Jackson Jr.
Slightly disagree. A guy like Jaren thinks he deserves shots, and while a guy like that can co exist with Wemby and even maybe thrive defensively, I dont think it’s the best fit offensively. Wemby unlocked would be a player with no one on his team being in his way when he wants it on the low block. If you have another guy like Jaren needing/ wanting those touches, it takes away from Wemby’s full potential… an offensive beast who can mix it up inside and outside. That’s why I say, the perfect complement to Wemby at the pf position is a low cost, do-it-all garbage man.

[SPURt]

Hope this isn't just a case of small sample size. Guess we'll see if New Orleans puts 130 on the Spurs in a couple of hours.
It was so much worse… franchise record setting 3 pointers worse :lol and you gave as pessimistic foreshadowing as any of us would be willing to give

[Kurgan]

He isn't forced to take those shots. He chooses to take those shots because he's a black hole.

He wears the number 24. Wonder who he modeled his game after :lol

[Obstructed_View]

It was so much worse… franchise record setting 3 pointers worse :lol and you gave as pessimistic foreshadowing as any of us would be willing to give

Remember when Timmy and Bruce were here and every game, teams would just happen to have a bad shooting night on the same night they played the Spurs? Every great player in interviews saying, "oh we just missed shots."

This Spurs team is the opposite of that.

What's crazy is that it is the easiest fix in the world. Tell everyone to stay home on the perimeter and suddenly the Spurs' opponent ppg drops by 12.

[SPURt]

Remember when Timmy and Bruce were here and every game, teams would just happen to have a bad shooting night on the same night they played the Spurs? Every great player in interviews saying, "oh we just missed shots."

This Spurs team is the opposite of that.

What's crazy is that it is the easiest fix in the world. Tell everyone to stay home on the perimeter and suddenly the Spurs' opponent ppg drops by 12.
I remember that, I also remember complaining about that team :lol I never knew what it truly was like to support a terrible team. Yet, alas, here we are. This team is young, long, and athletic. Defense should be easier than offense for them. Imagine if Wemby wasn’t here and the Spurs had Scoot, Miller, or one of the twins. I shudder at the thought, it could be worse.

[spurs10]

Hope this isn't just a case of small sample size. Guess we'll see if New Orleans puts 130 on the Spurs in a couple of hours. Yeah not in the top 5 after that defensive nightmare and public massacre.

[Fizziksman]

22 three pointers lol

[SouthernFryd]

hmmm....

[SouthernFryd]

Slightly disagree. A guy like Jaren thinks he deserves shots, and while a guy like that can co exist with Wemby and even maybe thrive defensively, I dont think it’s the best fit offensively. Wemby unlocked would be a player with no one on his team being in his way when he wants it on the low block. If you have another guy like Jaren needing/ wanting those touches, it takes away from Wemby’s full potential… an offensive beast who can mix it up inside and outside. That’s why I say, the perfect complement to Wemby at the pf position is a low cost, do-it-all garbage man.

Give Bassey another shot now that Wemby is playing Center. I think he has the potential to be just that guy.