Pictures / Videos of Missed Wemby Lobs

[CorrectCrusader]

If you have more, please post.

https://i.imgur.com/YXiSgOy.png

https://i.imgur.com/StGL6Sb.png

[MultiTroll]

Any chance any of the local media popsuckers would post?

[blackbucket]

You can tell that even Sean Elliott is getting frustrated on the telecasts. It’s pretty obvious to everybody not named pop that the offense needs to go through Victor and they need to feature him more than they are. At what point does somebody with authority tell pop it’s time to start structuring an offense that makes sense.

That is a rhetorical question because we all know that will never happen with this organization and pop’s standing with the organization. That is the price to pay with pop having five championships because of Tim Duncan.

[TheGreatYacht]

1738030848933245158

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB6-WNsXoAAC3e4?format=jpg&name=large
https://twitter.com/AMS_refund/status/1738035804843180373/photo/1

[Jordan Jackson]

Very rare you see Sean Elliott that visibly upset. He did put together a package of highlights with missed passes to Wemby. They opted not to show it - guess they don’t want to throw players under the bus publicly.

But the Spurs are going to have to remove those “players” from the roster at some point.

[Seventyniner]

Very rare you see Sean Elliott that visibly upset. He did put together a package of highlights with missed passes to Wemby. They opted not to show it - guess they don’t want to throw players under the bus publicly.

But the Spurs are going to have to remove those “players” from the roster at some point.

A near-complete roster turnover has to be part of the plan right now. At least I sincerely hope so. That's part of the tank and rebuild strategy.

I doubt the next Spurs team to make the playoffs will have more than one of Vassell/Keldon/Collins on it, and perhaps none of them. I only exclude players like Sochan and Branham because they still have two years left on their rookie contracts, making it pretty unlikely they are traded before then and Victor will be good enough to drag the team to the play-in two years from now if the Spurs get even a bit of talent infusion.

[TheGreatYacht]

1738026949883105455

[TheGreatYacht]

Noticed at the 7min mark in 2nd quarter, Pop told Wemby to come out and Victor threw his arms up in frustration. Couldn't find the clip on twitter but other people did notice it as well.

That taking Wemby out early bullshit and not playing him until the 2nd quarter is fucking annoying. I'm glad he showed the body language that he did tonight. Fuck CIA Poop, the biggest hypocrite this franchise has ever had. Always preaching about people needing to get over themselves but has the biggest ego in that locker room.

Dejounte wasn't lying about this old fuck playing mind games, is all I will say.

[CorrectCrusader]

Noticed at the 7min mark in 2nd quarter, Pop told Wemby to come out and Victor threw his arms up in frustration. Couldn't find the clip on twitter but other people did notice it as well.

That taking Wemby out early bullshit and not playing him until the 2nd quarter is fucking annoying. I'm glad he showed the body language that he did tonight. Fuck CIA Poop, the biggest hypocrite this franchise has ever had. Always preaching about people needing to get over themselves but has the biggest ego in that locker room.

Dejounte wasn't lying about this old fuck playing mind games, is all I will say.

One of Dejountes instagram posts right after he left was saying to spurs fans "Y'all gonna be losing for 15 years with the way you're going"

I'm sick.

https://i.imgur.com/r4QgvAJ.png

[TheGreatYacht]

1738034060696367365

:lmao Fucking truth bomb dropped on Poop and the shitters on this team

[Tyronn Lue]

At this point you have to believe this is based on Pop's wishes, for whatever reason. It doesn't seem accidental and looks like a team effort.

[TimDunkem]

Bulls announcers were spitting truth bombs. Either this team collectively has all-time bad court vision, or they're freezing Wemby out.

[CorrectCrusader]

Bulls announcers were spitting truth bombs. Either this team collectively has all-time bad court vision, or they're freezing Wemby out.

It's telling that the only players who can feed him the ball weren't on our team last year.

[CorrectCrusader]

https://twitter.com/Josh810/status/1736759602388074811

[timtonymanu]

All on the head coach, but we know that already.

Also lol at Keldon, Jeremy and Devin thinking they’re anything more special than bench players.

[Mikeanaro]

Agreed, too many easy plays and they dont find the giant buddy, also he is playing outside the 3 point line, the whole team is a mess and I mean like a High School BB team and very unpleasant to watch.
Fuck Pop, his time is over in SA.

[TheGreatYacht]

1738033255369019667

:lmao Why is this so fucking spot on? Swear to god he has a Shaqtin moment like this every game I've watched

[TowelWaver]

Also lol at Keldon, Jeremy and Devin thinking they’re anything more special than bench players.

They're hoopin'.

[Proxy]

bulls announcers put it plainly, team has too many people that think they're the man and they aren't, it's wemby

[spursparker9]

How does these clowns not yet appear in shaqtin a fool

[TekXX]

Maybe this is putting a fire under the FO and Pop if the franchise is getting unhappy. I personally would welcome if Wemby told Pop to fix this shit.

[z0sa]

The only question now is whether it's a conscious effort to freeze him out or not.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Absolutely distasteful.
I don't wan't to wish anyone on the team ill but goddamn...

[TekXX]

The only question now is whether it's a conscious effort to freeze him out or not.

I imagine it's a mix of lack of talent and guys looking to get their points. It doesn't help that Wemby is still learning out there so other guys feel that's their green light to ignore him if he looks lost or outmatched.

[DeRozan m8]

Stupid fucking team

Coaches are fucked.

List management fucked.

Teams fucked

Way to blow a once in a lifetime prospect.

Fuckheads

[KobesAchilles]

I have easy rules for our roster going forward. If you can’t throw an entry pass or a lob pass to a fucking 7ft 4 athletic freak, then I don’t want you on the team. If you wave off the wide open franchise player so you can get your own number, then i don’t want you on the team.

Like if a player can’t do these two simple things, then they have no future with our team. It’s that simple. I don’t want to hear about potential or player development or any other shit like that. If you can’t set up the franchise guy or are looking for your own number instead of his then you have no future with us. Now if only most posters could realize this

[SupremeGuy]

I can't even call this a team right now. This is all everyone looking out for themselves instead of making passes to the fucking generational talent. It's absolute bullshit. This shit is on purpose. When other teams' broadcast guys start mentioning it, you know it's bad.

[Chinook]

I've been asking for a thread like this for a while. It's clear that there is disagreement among some of us as to how much Wemby is being overlooked by the offense, especially when he's in the best position to score. A lot of times, the discussion about this only comes from half-remembered instances, and even when they're remembered fully, instances where we would benefit from being able to reference some footage.

I always feel like a little gross in these arguments, because I'm a pretty strong critic of Pop and one of the folks who has pushed the idea that the talent on the roster is far below the value the Spurs have placed on it. So no, I don't think Pop is doing a good job at any aspect of coaching right now, and I think guys like Vassell, Keldon and especially Branham play the way they do because of bad coaching and inappropriate expectations placed on them. I share many of the overarching issues with many of the most vehement posters. Where I differ is that I don't have any particular bias toward watching Wemby. What I mean by that is that it doesn't bother me if Wemby doesn't touch the ball on a given possession, and I think a lot of fans ONLY get enjoyment out of Wemby playing right now. I'm not here to try to make anyone change what they're enjoying, but I think that reality is causing people to interpret things somewhat irrationally.

For example:

1738030848933245158


There's nothing wrong with this play. Wemby's not open when Sochan has the ball. Like maybe Victor catches that pass cleanly, but he's 10 feet away from the basket with his man already in position to contest his shot. Rationally speaking, no one should want Wemby to get the ball there. Sochan makes a much better pass to Osman, who actually forces the defense to shift, which legit leaves Wemby wide open for a dunk. I want to be charitable and believe that folks' frustration with the offense is causing them to get mad at a good sequence of ball-movement. This play as nothing to do with who likes who or who is smart enough to pass the ball or whatever else. It has everything to do with the importance of penetration and why an offense that can't reliably force defenders to move isn't going to generate consistent looks. Osman doesn't have the talent to guarantee that he'd draw Wemby's man to him every time he drives. That's why driving is the top aspect the team needs to look at in PGs and why they should have no interest in a guy like Quickley.

It would be really nice to have some video context for the pictures in the OP. As the screenshots from the post with that tweet shows, it's not hard to create a misleading image. The images make it seem like Wemby's wide open under the basket with his man sucked in to try to guard Sochan only for Jeremy to just wildly throw the ball around. The video shows Wemby's quite a bit farther from the basket with his man standing next to him and Sochan hitting the wide-open Osman in position where he can either shoot the three or drive.

That first picture definitely does't look like Wemby's open for a lob. Balls don't just teleport from one player to another. Sochan is going to have to stop, pick the ball up and throw it, and that ball will have to fly through the air and get to Wemby. We're talking about a couple of seconds at least, which is plenty of time for Vuc to get back in that play. That's part of why it's important to get open when players are actually in position to get you the ball and to communicate with the ball-handler so that they know you're going to make a cut. Even just looking at that pic, though, you can rule out a lot of angles. Vuc would be able to recover for a lob pass. (Just real quick: A high lob straight at the basket would be goaltending call, a short pass at the rim is going to get contested. A high away from the rim is somewhat open, but Wemby would face a lot of defensive pressure from whichever helper is on the side the pass goes, and he's still going to have Vuc right next to him. There are places to throw a lob where only Wemby can catch it, but those are low-percentage opportunities, which would cause fans to complain that the pass was bad.) A bounce pass would get picked off by White. A bullet pass might work, but that's not an easy pass to make off the dribble.

The second pic looks like transition. Branham looks like he might've called his own number there when he wasn't supposed to. I'd like a bit more context to know how soon Branham got the ball in his hands. If he'd just started driving off the catch, he needed to show more awareness there. If he brought the ball up and is at that moment in the middle of a run down the court, the pass to Wemby is harder than it looks like. You don't typically throw that kind of lob pass from beyond the three-point line. It's one of those 2K moments, where pressing A basically forces the ball to fly out of your teammate's hands and into yours. I don't know how long that lob angle was going to be there. It might not have even been there by the time the pass was ready to be throne.

[spursparker9]

:lol Is there a pin function to pin this thread? This would go up to 100+ pages once the season ended.

:lol

[spursparker9]

I have easy rules for our roster going forward. If you can’t throw an entry pass or a lob pass to a fucking 7ft 4 athletic freak, then I don’t want you on the team. If you wave off the wide open franchise player so you can get your own number, then i don’t want you on the team.

Like if a player can’t do these two simple things, then they have no future with our team. It’s that simple. I don’t want to hear about potential or player development or any other shit like that. If you can’t set up the franchise guy or are looking for your own number instead of his then you have no future with us. Now if only most posters could realize this

:lol I think FA wouldn't wanna come here too after seeing these clowns and SA being a small market team.

Wouldn't say SA has any big bargaining power either. The only players that had no choice to play in SA are the thru the draft.

[kxs783kms]

I've been asking for a thread like this for a while. It's clear that there is disagreement among some of us as to how much Wemby is being overlooked by the offense, especially when he's in the best position to score. A lot of times, the discussion about this only comes from half-remembered instances, and even when they're remembered fully, instances where we would benefit from being able to reference some footage.

I always feel like a little gross in these arguments, because I'm a pretty strong critic of Pop and one of the folks who has pushed the idea that the talent on the roster is far below the value the Spurs have placed on it. So no, I don't think Pop is doing a good job at any aspect of coaching right now, and I think guys like Vassell, Keldon and especially Branham play the way they do because of bad coaching and inappropriate expectations placed on them. I share many of the overarching issues with many of the most vehement posters. Where I differ is that I don't have any particular bias toward watching Wemby. What I mean by that is that it doesn't bother me if Wemby doesn't touch the ball on a given possession, and I think a lot of fans ONLY get enjoyment out of Wemby playing right now. I'm not here to try to make anyone change what they're enjoying, but I think that reality is causing people to interpret things somewhat irrationally.

For example:

1738030848933245158


There's nothing wrong with this play. Wemby's not open when Sochan has the ball. Like maybe Victor catches that pass cleanly, but he's 10 feet away from the basket with his man already in position to contest his shot. Rationally speaking, no one should want Wemby to get the ball there. Sochan makes a much better pass to Osman, who actually forces the defense to shift, which legit leaves Wemby wide open for a dunk. I want to be charitable and believe that folks' frustration with the offense is causing them to get mad at a good sequence of ball-movement. This play as nothing to do with who likes who or who is smart enough to pass the ball or whatever else. It has everything to do with the importance of penetration and why an offense that can't reliably force defenders to move isn't going to generate consistent looks. Osman doesn't have the talent to guarantee that he'd draw Wemby's man to him every time he drives. That's why driving is the top aspect the team needs to look at in PGs and why they should have no interest in a guy like Quickley.

It would be really nice to have some video context for the pictures in the OP. As the screenshots from the post with that tweet shows, it's not hard to create a misleading image. The images make it seem like Wemby's wide open under the basket with his man sucked in to try to guard Sochan only for Jeremy to just wildly throw the ball around. The video shows Wemby's quite a bit farther from the basket with his man standing next to him and Sochan hitting the wide-open Osman in position where he can either shoot the three or drive.

That first picture definitely does't look like Wemby's open for a lob. Balls don't just teleport from one player to another. Sochan is going to have to stop, pick the ball up and throw it, and that ball will have to fly through the air and get to Wemby. We're talking about a couple of seconds at least, which is plenty of time for Vuc to get back in that play. That's part of why it's important to get open when players are actually in position to get you the ball and to communicate with the ball-handler so that they know you're going to make a cut. Even just looking at that pic, though, you can rule out a lot of angles. Vic would be able to recover for a lob pass. (Just real quick: A high lob straight at the basket would be goaltending call, a short pass at the rim is going to get contested. A high away from the rim is somewhat open, but Wemby would face a lot of defensive pressure from whichever helper is on the side the pass goes, and he's still going to have Vuc right next to him. There are places to throw a lob where only Wemby can catch it, but those are low-percentage opportunities, which would cause fans to complain that the pass was bad.) A bounce pass would get picked off by White. A bullet pass might work, but that's not an easy pass to make off the dribble.

The second pic looks like transition. Branham looks like he might've called his own number there when he wasn't supposed to. I'd like a bit more context to know how soon Branham got the ball in his hands. If he'd just started driving off the catch, he needed to show more awareness there. If he brought the ball up and is at that moment in the middle of a run down the court, the pass to Wemby is harder than it looks like. You don't typically throw that kind of lob pass from beyond the three-point line. It's one of those 2K moments, where pressing A basically forces the ball to fly out of your teammate's hands and into yours. I don't know how long that lob angle was going to be there. It might not have even been there by the time the pass was ready to be throne.

Actually with that clip, Victor is actually open because of his height. We've seen him dunk from that exact point where he would've received the ball. He's right outside of the circle, even with a defender in front of him, Victor is long enough to shoot or dunk over him in that situation. For other players, you're correct, you don't make that pass. But those other players aren't 7'4 with an 8ft reach. That's the part you seem to want to overlook. That's an easy floater, if not, dunk for Vic.
Or a foul at worst, where then he goes to the line. Yes the pass to Osman was good because he was "open" and drove to the basket with a pass off to Vic for a dunk but still, I'll take my chances with Sochan give him that pass close to the basket before that cross court pass while he's in the air. Victor is a magnet down there, even if he couldn't get that shot off, he's showed that he's a good and willing enough passer to get his teammates even better shots because of it. There's no case where Vic shouldn't be touching the ball every offensive possession, if not to score, then to open up shots for others.

[thiste]

At this point EVERYONE is seeing it. Even Trae Young commented on it.

It's ample time "somebody" deals with that issue. We could've won that game in Chicago.

[Kawhi Duncan]

You can tell that even Sean Elliott is getting frustrated on the telecasts. It’s pretty obvious to everybody not named pop that the offense needs to go through Victor and they need to feature him more than they are. At what point does somebody with authority tell pop it’s time to start structuring an offense that makes sense.

That is a rhetorical question because we all know that will never happen with this organization and pop’s standing with the organization. That is the price to pay with pop having five championships because of Tim Duncan.

That right there is the issue... Pop acts humble, but deep down he wants to prove that he didn't just win because of Duncan and he wants to be looked at as a coaching genius... That's why he does stuff against conventional wisdom, because doing the obviously right thing will be like "duh... Any coach would do that"... So he does the out of the way thing and hopes it works so he looks like a savant... But when it doesn't work, his ego won't let him do the thing that everyone has been saying he should do because it would make him look bad... So he doubles down... But he can't be fired or talked to by anyone because of his standing... It's really the worst case scenario for Wemby's career... He went to the worst organization he could go to in order to develop/become a superstar...

[Kawhi Duncan]

1738034060696367365

:lmao Fucking truth bomb dropped on Poop and the shitters on this team

Don't let pop hear that... He may play Wemby 10 minutes next game

[Brazil]

We can spend the day trying to figure out if Sochan misses him or not, most of the time you will see arguments on both side but bottom line, it is not ok that your franchise player had only 8 FGAs even in 22 mn most of them far from the basket. Sochan may have taken the right decision on that play but it is close, in doubts Victor MUST be the first option period.

I don't believe teammates are freezing him out on purpose, all have individual metrics to achieve but assist is part of it too. The thing is the roster is weak and don't have a great court vision (Vassel is awful at it, Sochan is meh, Keldon is also meh to put it ligthly etc...) To solve dat shit everybody needs to work together and it is also Victor responsability.

There is a nice interview of Thierry Henry talking about the fact he was complaining all the time to Wenger that team mates were missing him all the time, Wenger pointed it out that he had to understand players preferences, vision, limitations to do the correct runs to ease the work for them.

Victor needs to start be more vocal (there is progress in that regard), he has to impose himself as THE guy but he also needs to pick his spot in function of the ball handler and adapt his runs / screens... Pop needs obviously to back him up and draw more specific plays for him then the team mates really need to step up. They have also to understand that putting numbers on a bad team is not increasing their fucking value, they are all role players at best, they are ruining their reputation, they are seen as fucking losers not capable to play for the future of a franchise.

[Chomag]

A good coach would be lighting his team up for this nonsense.
A good coach would never let this happen
A good coach is something that we don't have.

[Davidicus]

Not intentional. We’re just young, inexperienced, and don’t have a PG alongside Wemby. Court vision is lower on priority for these guys, they’re just trying not to turn the ball over with their heads down.

This is painful but I’m glad it’s finally out there. Sean made a great point - these guys should treat Vic like a fucking bazooka that’s going to give them much easier shots in turn.

[mudd]

Pop should be ashamed of the product he puts on the floor. He should get over himself and step down!

[DJR210]

They can get rid of everyone on this team not named Wemby and Vassell tbh

[jeebus]

I really do hope Wemby leaves after his contract is up and plays for a team that doesn't hate his guts.

[TimDunkem]

https://twitter.com/FUCKIG5/status/1738200466029183089

https://twitter.com/BratBright/status/1736853756544004569

[MultiTroll]

Actually with that clip, Victor is actually open because of his height. We've seen him dunk from that exact point where he would've received the ball. He's right outside of the circle, even with a defender in front of him, Victor is long enough to shoot or dunk over him in that situation. For other players, you're correct, you don't make that pass. But those other players aren't 7'4 with an 8ft reach. That's the part you seem to want to overlook. That's an easy floater, if not, dunk for Vic.
Or a foul at worst, where then he goes to the line. Yes the pass to Osman was good because he was "open" and drove to the basket with a pass off to Vic for a dunk but still, I'll take my chances with Sochan give him that pass close to the basket before that cross court pass while he's in the air. Victor is a magnet down there, even if he couldn't get that shot off, he's showed that he's a good and willing enough passer to get his teammates even better shots because of it. There's no case where Vic shouldn't be touching the ball every offensive possession, if not to score, then to open up shots for others.
Co sign.
As defenses study Wama, this is going to be a play that happens 60K times in the next 5 years.
Timmy Dunkar got the ball out on the wing and was covered, technically. I mean he was, right? But Duncan scored over the coverage, often with his banker.
Likewise Wemby will score over the defense even if they do front him at the mini circle.
Or when they start to double him he will find the open man.
Ironically he is by far the best passer and playmaker on the team.

[Chinook]

Actually with that clip, Victor is actually open because of his height.

There are other players in the NBA who are 7-3, and none of them are dominant scorers. It's not being that height makes you a bad scorer or anything, and I do think Wemby will be a good scorer. But if being that tall meant you were always open and always able to score if you were within 10 feet of the rim, those guys would be better scorers than they are.

Victor was at the elbow, not the charge circle. He's shooting 32 percent from that area of the court (5-9 feet from the basket, according to NBA.com) this year. He's not an automatic bucket from that range, which is annoying because he looked like he was going to be in pre-season. I think when Wemby is in rhythm that you take those risks. But shooting the way he's normally shooting, that's a bad play that people wouldn't want the team to make if it weren't their favorite player in that position.

People should want the Spurs offense to actually create looks for Wemby rather than trying to pretend like Wemby is in his prime and expecting him to be this productive focal point. It's okay for him to be more of a traditional big in terms of his touches so that he builds a foundation of reliable offense that can actually start bending defenses. Wemby's not an efficient scorer unless he's open at the rim. So him free-styling isn't going to bend the defense most of the time. Early in the season when teams didn't have any idea how to guard him, it did cause that much panic. But the initial scouting report has come out, and the Spurs have to start doing other things to counter that. It shouldn't be up to Victor to have to learn to how to free-style past scouting reports. A structured offense should punish teams guarding Wemby too heavily. But that would require better coaching than the Spurs are getting righ tnow.

[TimDunkem]

https://twitter.com/NBAMemes/status/1738059138943557693

[Tyronn Lue]

I have easy rules for our roster going forward. If you can’t throw an entry pass or a lob pass to a fucking 7ft 4 athletic freak, then I don’t want you on the team. If you wave off the wide open franchise player so you can get your own number, then i don’t want you on the team.

Like if a player can’t do these two simple things, then they have no future with our team. It’s that simple. I don’t want to hear about potential or player development or any other shit like that. If you can’t set up the franchise guy or are looking for your own number instead of his then you have no future with us. Now if only most posters could realize this
I feel like most posters have said this already. I know I have, many times.

[itzsoweezee]

It's clear that there is disagreement among some of us as to how much Wemby is being overlooked by the offense, especially when he's in the best position to score..

There’s no disagreement. Ita clear to everyone except for you bro

[TimDunkem]

We can nitpick one or two possessions in one game, or argue how many shots Wemby should get, but it's a fact he's consistently missed on very obvious, wide open opportunities every game, multiple times a game.

[rjv]

A near-complete roster turnover has to be part of the plan right now. At least I sincerely hope so. That's part of the tank and rebuild strategy.

I doubt the next Spurs team to make the playoffs will have more than one of Vassell/Keldon/Collins on it, and perhaps none of them. I only exclude players like Sochan and Branham because they still have two years left on their rookie contracts, making it pretty unlikely they are traded before then and Victor will be good enough to drag the team to the play-in two years from now if the Spurs get even a bit of talent infusion.


i'm a loyal spurs fan and hate to advocate for player turnover just for the sake of it but i assume that the plan for this year was to figure out the pieces that will eventually fit around victor. this current roster might have one other starter in devin but that would be with him as the third or fourth option on the floor. everyone else is either bench material or trade bait.

[spurraider21]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) in the play you are breaking down, i think you are looking at the pass too late. As soon as wemby slips the screen, a high entry pass should be made toward the backboard. I think you are breaking it down as though the hypothetical pass to wemby comes around the same moment Sochan ends up making the pass to cedi. It wouldn’t be easy to loft in an arching pass with that little space but that’s the advantage of a tall passer like Sochan and it’s why bigs generally have an easy time making high-low passes.

and anyway, still think the later pass to wemby would have been just fine in that spot. Sure, the eventual dunk was a good outcome but you can’t guarantee a magical second opening will happen. Think it would have been good enough position for him even in the muddied paint to just rise up. Wemby struggles to hold position down low, so he rarely gets the ball in those spots. Gotta take those opportunities

[Tyronn Lue]

There are other players in the NBA who are 7-3, and none of them are dominant scorers. It's not being that height makes you a bad scorer or anything, and I do think Wemby will be a good scorer. But if being that tall meant you were always open and always able to score if you were within 10 feet of the rim, those guys would be better scorers than they are.

Victor was at the elbow, not the charge circle. He's shooting 32 percent from that area of the court (5-9 feet from the basket, according to NBA.com) this year. He's not an automatic bucket from that range, which is annoying because he looked like he was going to be in pre-season. I think when Wemby is in rhythm that you take those risks. But shooting the way he's normally shooting, that's a bad play that people wouldn't want the team to make if it weren't their favorite player in that position.

This misses the mark. Victor is the 1st overall draft pick on a team who's most recent one was Tim Duncan. Are you suggesting that, if it was David Robinson, you'd think the same? You develop your 1st overall pick, especially that one, by hitting him any chance you get. You cannot compare him to others his size, and vs the team he's with he's absolutely the best option especially as open as he is in early to mid transition many times. If he was a terrible FT shooter, that's slightly different, but he's a good FT shooter so it's likely he either scores or gets to the line. You cannot really look at his % yet from the field since his teammates and seemingly his coach don't know how to get him the ball in his spots.


People should want the Spurs offense to actually create looks for Wemby rather than trying to pretend like Wemby is in his prime and expecting him to be this productive focal point. It's okay for him to be more of a traditional big in terms of his touches so that he builds a foundation of reliable offense that can actually start bending defenses. Wemby's not an efficient scorer unless he's open at the rim. So him free-styling isn't going to bend the defense most of the time. Early in the season when teams didn't have any idea how to guard him, it did cause that much panic. But the initial scouting report has come out, and the Spurs have to start doing other things to counter that. It shouldn't be up to Victor to have to learn to how to free-style past scouting reports. A structured offense should punish teams guarding Wemby too heavily. But that would require better coaching than the Spurs are getting righ tnow.
You seem to think "open at the rim" means no one else is in the building. He's not going to bend the defense just by running around flailing his arms while they brick 3s. He needs the ball to generate that.

Honestly, I am not sure you're watching the same games.

[lefty]

lol POPPED

[Jordan Jackson]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) in the play you are breaking down, i think you are looking at the pass too late. As soon as wemby slips the screen, a high entry pass should be made toward the backboard. I think you are breaking it down as though the hypothetical pass to wemby comes around the same moment Sochan ends up making the pass to cedi

Correct. Which leads me to - these guys can’t read NBA defenses. Do the Spurs not BBIQ test players before drafting them? Some of this stuff is pretty simple which makes it so bizarre.

[TimDunkem]

We're also being prisoners of the moment in the sense that we're forgetting that play is not even in the top-20 of the most egregious misses to an obvious wide-open Wemby this season. :lol

There's nothing to argue at this point other than whether this is all just player incompetence, or a mix of that and freezing Wemby out.

[R. DeMurre]

I was watching a Timberwolves game last week, and couldn't help but laugh a little when the announcers got very excited on one play where Kyle Anderson was being guarded in the paint by a 6'4" guy. The announcers: "Kyle's got a mismatch, Kyle's got a mismatch, get him the ball!" Kyle is 6'9", so he had a 5" advantage on his defender.
Wembanyama has a greater mismatch on pretty much every possession.

[Chinook]

https://twitter.com/FUCKIG5/status/1738200466029183089

Yeah, so that's the context I was looking for, and it's a bit worse than the still image suggested. This looks like it was a set play with Vassell setting a screen for Wemby so Victor can get the ball at the wing I don't know if the play was specifically to get Wemby a shot or if there was something else going on. The execution sucks though. Vassell makes no contact on his screen, and Victor only gets open because Vuc overcompensated and sort of ran himself out of the play and Wemby takes him backdoor. I think there is a window to make this pass right after the cut where it's not as risky as it looked to be in the still shot. Jeremy looks like he was expecting Victor to get to the wing, but that was taken away by Vuc's overcompensation. I think he should've been able to adjust to what was actually happening on the court, but I also think the Spurs need to be able to execute their players. Going forward, the Spurs are going to have to be able to run plays to get Wemby good looks, so they'll need to fix their timing and placement.


https://twitter.com/BratBright/status/1736853756544004569

Yep we talked about this. Champ had Wemby for a dump-off. I do think that's just bad vision.

[rjv]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/vassell-spurs-know-wembanyama-s-strengths-18569892.php

[Chinook]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) in the play you are breaking down, i think you are looking at the pass too late. As soon as wemby slips the screen, a high entry pass should be made toward the backboard.

Huh? You think Sochan has a lob angle there? There might be an angle for like a pocket pass. But ignoring Wemby catching the ball, I don't think that a pass like you described gets past the Bulls in between them. It's not like Wemby ran hard at the rim there. He was fading back to the elbow.


It wouldn’t be easy to loft in an arching pass with that little space but that’s the advantage of a tall passer like Sochan and it’s why bigs generally have an easy time making high-low passes.

Bigs do have an easier time with high-low because of their size, but high-lows work because the spacing allows for a good angle and distance for a clean throw. They usually take advantage of a player fronting a guy on the side getting sealed and leaving no one blocking the big from the redirected pass.


and anyway, still think the later pass to wemby would have been just fine in that spot. Sure, the eventual dunk was a good outcome but you can’t guarantee a magical second opening will happen. Think it would have been good enough position for him even in the muddied paint to just rise up. Wemby struggles to hold position down low, so he rarely gets the ball in those spots. Gotta take those opportunities

Sochan could've passed the ball to Wemby there. I think people have too much confidence in the result being good considering how the stats are this year. But it's a pass that could've been made. But the Spurs got a better look using ball and player movement. It's not guaranteed, but "good to great" is also not guaranteed.

[spurraider21]

Huh? You think Sochan has a lob angle there? There might be an angle for like a pocket pass. But ignoring Wemby catching the ball, I don't think that a pass like you described gets past the Bulls in between them. It's not like Wemby ran hard at the rim there. He was fading back to the elbow.



Bigs do have an easier time with high-low because of their size, but high-lows work because the spacing allows for a good angle and distance for a clean throw. They usually take advantage of a player fronting a guy on the side getting sealed and leaving no one blocking the big from the redirected pass.



Sochan could've passed the ball to Wemby there. I think people have too much confidence in the result being good considering how the stats are this year. But it's a pass that could've been made. But the Spurs got a better look using ball and player movement. It's not guaranteed, but "good to great" is also not guaranteed.
I do think there’s a lob angle. Not necessarily an alley oop but a high pass for wemby who can extend past Drummond.

and yes you can go from good to better to best but when you can feed your best scorer the ball in the paint i think you live with that tbh

[Tyronn Lue]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/vassell-spurs-know-wembanyama-s-strengths-18569892.php
"There are some games like that," Wembanyama said. "I am not trying to force anything. ... I could sacrifice all my shots if it is best for the team."

[z0sa]

"There are some games like that," Wembanyama said. "I am not trying to force anything. ... I could sacrifice all my shots if it is best for the team."

I'm beginning to worry that Vic's personality type will not be up to the task of putting a whole team of scrubs in line.

He will excel with other smart players who want to win. Without that, I'm not sure he'll be able to be the leader we all want him to be. Which isn't saying much - losers gonna lose.

The real tragedy is he should have Pop backing him up, punch for punch, saying stuff like "he's a great kid but needs 20+ shots, even on a minutes restriction."

He won't though. He's lost the thread, Pop has.

[Chinook]

This misses the mark. Victor is the 1st overall draft pick on a team who's most recent one was Tim Duncan. Are you suggesting that, if it was David Robinson, you'd think the same?

David was a 24-year-old rookie who understood exactly who he was on the court from his first game. Like with Duncan, the Spurs didn't have to "develop" him or "figure out how to use him. Victor has a long, long way to go before he's at that level. That's not an insult to him. Dude's five years younger and is playing in a more complicated time for players with his skills. But it's easy to say "feed DRob" when he's actually able to play his position. Right now, Wemby is caught between playing as a traditional big and trying to be a three-level star. They'd do well to run Robinson plays for him, but then everyone (including Victor) needs to execute those plays. Same if they want to run Dirk plays or Durant plays or whatever. Run some plays for him and have him do his part. I'd far prefer the Spurs to run the plays and ignore if things come open for a while just to make sure they get the plays down rather than what they're doing now. But I reject the idea that they should basically let a player freestyle through the offense, regardless of what pick he was taken at. I don't think that helps anyone.


You cannot compare him to others his size, and vs the team he's with he's absolutely the best option especially as open as he is in early to mid transition many times. If he was a terrible FT shooter, that's slightly different, but he's a good FT shooter so it's likely he either scores or gets to the line. You cannot really look at his % yet from the field since his teammates and seemingly his coach don't know how to get him the ball in his spots.

You can look at the reality of what Wemby is now while still showing understanding that he's going to get better. You talk about Victor getting the ball in "his spots" as if he has an established chart showing where he's good from. He doesn't have that right now. If you actually look at his shot chart (https://www.positiveresidual.com/shiny/true-shooting-charts/) you can see it's mostly blue with some gray. Literally right at the rim is red, but that's not a "spot". The best example is the left wing, and if you want to run plays to get Wemby those looks, I'm all for it. Otherwise, he seems to be bad all over the place right now.


You seem to think "open at the rim" means no one else is in the building. He's not going to bend the defense just by running around flailing his arms while they brick 3s. He needs the ball to generate that.

No, I think "open at the rim" means there's a clear passing angle for him to get a clean look. We keep going through this cycle of folks saying "He's tall, just throw it up there" before bitching about the Spurs making those passes and Victor not being able to anything with them because he was covered in the first place. I do think there's a version of Victor who will be able to catch contested passes reliably and finish reliably. He's not there now, and that shouldn't be the plan now. Getting him non-contested catches for easy finishes should be.

[Chinook]

I do think there’s a lob angle. Not necessarily an alley oop but a high pass for wemby who can extend past Drummond.

I don't really see it. If Victor runs hard to rim, something might open up, but it looks like a PnP essentially.


and yes you can go from good to better to best but when you can feed your best scorer the ball in the paint i think you live with that tbh

I don't think that's wrong-headed. I think in an ideal world, you don't pass it to him there. But in that idea world Victor's already gotten a lot of better touches and will get more, so folks wouldn't see this particular play as an issue.

[shaq_h8ter]

Trade these bitches and get some role players that can feed Wembey.
Devin seems like the only one I'd hold off on.
Worst case we should be able to get a very good trade for him.

[z0sa]

Thing about Vassell is he is probably the only dude on the team who can say he needs to get his shot, other than Wemby. If there's anyone on the team i'm moderately ok with missing Wemby, it'd be Vassell.

The rest of these scrubs should be the ones saying damn yall, we need to hit our big guns more often. Nah, they're doin dumb crap like passing to contested 3 through Wemby's outstretched hands. Moron Sochan.

Yet it's Vassell saying, "We need to hit guys faster."

He's the only one showing a bit of a leadership right now. Vic is too, but he can't really come out and demand greatness as a rookie. He's taking his lumps, so really it's on Vassell and of course Pop (lost cause on the latter) to make this culture of Wemby first work.

[Tyronn Lue]

David was a 24-year-old rookie who understood exactly who he was on the court from his first game. Like with Duncan, the Spurs didn't have to "develop" him or "figure out how to use him. Victor has a long, long way to go before he's at that level. That's not an insult to him. Dude's five years younger and is playing in a more complicated time for players with his skills. But it's easy to say "feed DRob" when he's actually able to play his position. Right now, Wemby is caught between playing as a traditional big and trying to be a three-level star. They'd do well to run Robinson plays for him, but then everyone (including Victor) needs to execute those plays. Same if they want to run Dirk plays or Durant plays or whatever. Run some plays for him and have him do his part. I'd far prefer the Spurs to run the plays and ignore if things come open for a while just to make sure they get the plays down rather than what they're doing now. But I reject the idea that they should basically let a player freestyle through the offense, regardless of what pick he was taken at. I don't think that helps anyone.

Freestyle? Victor is open at the rim. Not every possession needs to be a set play. Besides, the outcome on these is usually chaotic freestyle from the other 4.


You can look at the reality of what Wemby is now while still showing understanding that he's going to get better. You talk about Victor getting the ball in "his spots" as if he has an established chart showing where he's good from. He doesn't have that right now. If you actually look at his shot chart (https://www.positiveresidual.com/shiny/true-shooting-charts/) you can see it's mostly blue with some gray. Literally right at the rim is red, but that's not a "spot". The best example is the left wing, and if you want to run plays to get Wemby those looks, I'm all for it. Otherwise, he seems to be bad all over the place right now.

Where he stands and calls for a pass, that's where you give him the ball. The losses should be based on finding out what Victor can do, not finding out what Sochan can do. No one gives 2 shits what anyone else on the team can do. They are all expendable. This many games in I think we know what the team can do, and what they cannot do is get the ball to the franchise guy. Yes, your 1st overall pick is your franchise guy on a team of scrubs like that.


No, I think "open at the rim" means there's a clear passing angle for him to get a clean look. We keep going through this cycle of folks saying "He's tall, just throw it up there" before bitching about the Spurs making those passes and Victor not being able to anything with them because he was covered in the first place. I do think there's a version of Victor who will be able to catch contested passes reliably and finish reliably. He's not there now, and that shouldn't be the plan now. Getting him non-contested catches for easy finishes should be.
You'd have to see that he cannot do anything with them. You act like you've got the dream team around Christian Laettner.

Nobody, and I mean nobody got excited to watch Sochan or Collins this year. There was no celebration because DV got a contract.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah Dave didn’t know wtf he was doing his first season. He admitted that himself several times and has constantly said that Brown taught him how to play basketball bc he had no idea how to and just did everything by reflex. So that’s a lie that Dave was some finished product at 24. Brown, being an actual good coach, taught Dave how to play and put him in positions to succeed. I don’t need revisionist history here.

Also these aren’t even the biggest red flags. How many times has Wemby been wide open being guarded by a PG and we ignored him. The excuse is that our roster just doesn’t have the court vision or the talent to get him the ball. Ok let’s say that explains everything, it doesn’t, but let’s pretend it does. Then they need to be off the roster.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Wemby will leave once his contract ends, this team is clueless

[TimDunkem]

Sochan getting cooked in this Twitter thread right now. The NBA world has noticed and is letting him know. :lol

https://twitter.com/JeremySochan/status/1738239769115504763

[SouthernFryd]

The real tragedy is he should have Pop backing him up, punch for punch, saying stuff like "he's a great kid but needs 20+ shots, even on a minutes restriction."

He won't though. He's lost the thread, Pop has.

POP...IS...THE...PROBLEM.

Everything going wrong with this team, is fixable with a better coach. Defense? You don't need talent to play Defense, you need the desire to do so. A good coach could fix that. Bad shot selection? Again, a coachable thing. Bad passing and decision making? Coach. Spacing? Coach. There are things you can't coach, but most of the things wrong with the Spurs right now can be fixed by a good coach. But, you have to coach...not be a figurehead with an 80 million dollar contract who doesn't give a f about basketball anymore.

[shaq_h8ter]

Wemby should start calling Sohan out on the court.
Sohan is looking more and more like the main tumor of this Team's Cancer.
#TradeTheseBitches

[r0drig0lac]

All on the head coach, but we know that already.

Also lol at Keldon, Jeremy and Devin thinking they’re anything more special than bench players.

that's the worst part of this situation today, fucking scrubs.

[Chomag]

Its going to be a miracle to get Wemby to stay at this point.

[Chomag]

Or at least it's getting very close to that if things don't change soon

[TimDunkem]

Wemby's teammates:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB6-fugXQAAq7Kj?format=jpg&name=medium

[slick'81]

Poor popovich, and poor spurs

[Obstructed_View]

Correct. Which leads me to - these guys can’t read NBA defenses. Do the Spurs not BBIQ test players before drafting them? Some of this stuff is pretty simple which makes it so bizarre.
BBIQ test? How about a vision test? They are literally looking at him when they pass to someone else.

[Obstructed_View]

Has anyone ever been paid so much money to be distracted from thinking about his dead wife?

[Chinook]

Freestyle? Victor is open at the rim. Not every possession needs to be a set play. Besides, the outcome on these is usually chaotic freestyle from the other 4.

But if the play is, Victor screen for Vassell to get him an open three, Victor slips the screen and starts calling for the ball, it's not good for the offense. I'm not saying that about this play. I'm saying all the guys on the court need to do their jobs. This seems to boggle the minds of a lot of posters but the point of the Spurs offense isn't to get Wemby a bunch of shots. That should be a major element, if not the foundation. But Wemby scoring is a means to an end. The Spurs offense is dysfunctional when Wemby is on the floor, and that's not just because they don't pass him the ball as much as he would like.

People see the Spurs do with other bigs what they struggle to do with Wemby, and they assume that there has to be a conspiracy against him and can't fathom that Wemby might not be doing what he needs to do in some of those situations. Like the Spurs throw an entry pass into Collins, and fans are more willing to believe that's because they don't hate Collins and not that Collins might've navigated the defense better and coordinated with his teammates to seal his man and present a good target for a pass. They also ignore that defenses may not care too much about Collins getting that pass (despite him being more likely to do something with it right now) and thus don't scramble to stop him like they do with Wemby. They want to believe the passes to either player have about the same chance of success but that the players just put on dunce caps or want to sabotage their long-term spots trying to play power games with the franchise player. Again, it's irrational.


Where he stands and calls for a pass, that's where you give him the ball.

No. Full stop. Wemby calls for the ball too often with no regard for his position to do that. It's really clear that he does not know how to read an NBA defense right now. That's what development is supposed to mean. He doesn't know what a good spot for him is -- he's shooting like 30 percent away from the charge circle.


No one gives 2 shits what anyone else on the team can do. They are all expendable. This many games in I think we know what the team can do, and what they cannot do is get the ball to the franchise guy. Yes, your 1st overall pick is your franchise guy on a team of scrubs like that.

And this just feeds into the bias. It seems like you and others would be happy with Victor shooting 30 percent on 50 shots a game. That would be excruciating to watch -- much worse that the slog we're seeing now. Wemby, with all of the bullshit with the offense, is still using the ball more than guys like James, Durant and Morant did in their first years. He's close to Doncic, with the difference being that Luka's a perimeter player who handles the ball and who has had the ability to consistently score against NBA defenses since he was a rookie. Wemby leads the team in turnovers (despite both never getting the ball and despite him being this great passer when he has the ball), has an AST : TO of less than 1 and who has had very little success shooting away from the rim. In any other circumstance, folks who be calling for such a player to use less possessions and focus on getting good looks rather than assuming he needs more indiscriminate touches. If a player uses more possessions than the vast majority of players throughout NBA history but is not productive in those possessions despite having immense talent, the answer should be to get better touches, not more.


You'd have to see that he cannot do anything with them. You act like you've got the dream team around Christian Laettner.

Or you could just treat him as a regular top prospect and build a system to support him rather than projecting GOAT status on him and expecting him to freestyle. It's an even more extreme version of the Spurs' habit of trying to chase potential instead of developing fundamentals. There's nothing about having Wemby play as a traditional big or a year or so that would stop him from becoming a three-level scorer. A more actualized version of him would benefit from that development, especially if/when the Spurs brought in a co-star guard to play with him. He'd be a 20-20 threat every game if the team focused on him as a rim-runner who could also pop and attack close-outs. Right now, he has very little he can fall back on offensively. Nothing's working consistently, and the Spurs don't seem to have a solution to change that. Fans don't seem to want a solution either. They just want Wemby to be that three-level guy and assume they can will it into existence by hating on his teammates hard enough.

[Tyronn Lue]

your response...
I'd be perfectly happy to have the same success rate with Victor getting a lot more touches. This is what development of your 1st overall looks like. Victor isn't a role player as your response seems to indicate, and it's not like the rest of the team had a good thing going before he showed up, so I am not sure what scheme you think you're referring to that doesn't include taking advantage of Victor's strengths.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah Chinook you are all about the place on this one. You go from not knowing “the angles” to making up excuse to making up plays and are now in the making up scenarios stage. It’s a weird progression. You keep saying it isn’t the job of the offense to get Wemby shots. You’re already wrong. That’s exactly the job of the offense. We are supposed to draw up plays for him to get the ball in spots he likes to get it. I don’t know why you don’t think that. It’s a little frightening hearing that from you.

Wemby is the number one option Chinook. Everything in your hypothetical doesn’t matter if you are starting off wrong. The offense goes through Wemby. Idgaf if they are playing lighter coverage against Collins in the post, you still give the rock to Wemby in the post. And really nobody is playing that hard coverage on Wemby in the post anyways. That’s a ridiculous excuse you are giving. I can make that entry pass and I can make it rather easily.

Wemby shot 7 times against the Bulls. That’s it. Your strawman argument that Wemby has to shoot 50 times at 30% is a bullshit one. First off, nobody said that, and secondly why don’t you believe in the franchise player to do better with more touches and more shots. It’s a weird mentality.

The reason why Wemby leads the Spurs in TOs in bc he gets the ball outta position so much and has to create his own shot. Dude fights in the paint, doesn’t get the ball bc supposedly nobody knows how to throw a pass I learned in 5th grade, and then traverses to the 3 point line to get the ball from a dead on chest pass bc apparently our team is only good enough to do 1st grade level passes. Then he is outta position, not in a comfortable spot, not in rhythm, and the shot clock is winding down. It’s stupid offense to do that to him.

Also the next reason nobody cares about his turnovers , and I need you to understand this, he is the FRANCHISE PLAYER. Damn dude. You play through your franchise player. It’s literally what you do. Idgaf if he is inefficient, there’s zero proof of that btw, but he still gets the fucking ball and shots man. It isn’t that hard. He gets 20 shots a game. That’s the expectation going forward. We get him the ball where he likes to get the ball. That’s the expectation. We find him downlow when he has position. That’s the expectation. Your Idea of offense is one that literally nobody in the entire NBA follows. No good team anyways. I can’t think of a good team that plays the style you want or are defending.

Luka gets the ball and shoots the most
Giannis gets the ball and shoots the most
Joker gets the ball ans shoots the most
Steph gets the ball and shoots the most
Lebron gets the ball and shoots the most
fucking Halliburton gets the ball and shoots the most

on the Spurs VW shoots once more a game than Vassell and only 2 more than KJ and somehow only 5 more than Collins AND Sochan. That’s criminal man and THAT is not winning basketball or good offense

[Chinook]

Yeah Dave didn’t know wtf he was doing his first season. He admitted that himself several times and has constantly said that Brown taught him how to play basketball bc he had no idea how to and just did everything by reflex. So that’s a lie that Dave was some finished product at 24. Brown, being an actual good coach, taught Dave how to play and put him in positions to succeed. I don’t need revisionist history here.

There's a difference between a polished rookie "not knowing what they're doing" and a raw rookie. Wemby doesn't even know what position he's playing at this point, let alone expressing his game to fit there. There's a lot from watching David that Victor can learn, because a lot of the things people assume Wemby would be able to do at an elite level right away are things Robinson was already good at. But David did some things very differently to create his looks. For example, his normal position the court was in the short corner/dunker spot. That's an excellent place for a big to hang out because he's open for dump-off passes, is in good position for an offensive rebound, and he can post up really quickly. Along those lines, Young Robinson didn't constantly try to get open. Because he was comfortable being an off-ball player, he would read the defense and flash to his scoring areas when the moment was right. A lot of his post-up plays involved him having the ball for like a second. He's basically read his guard, flash, seal, present a target, slide to the ball and finish. That's a far cry from how Wemby is posting up right now, which is usually done completely independent of what anyone else is doing and is being held for too long while Wemby gets rooted out of position.

I'm also becoming of the mind that Wemby would have more success in transition running the floor with the rest of the players rather than trying to cherry-picking. Basketball is a four-dimensional game, and where you are when the ball is 75 feet away from the basket is so much less important than where you are when the ball is 25 feet away. Most of the openings on fast breaks down come from break-aways. Most come from getting numbers on the defenders, creating conflict and exploiting the spacing. Looking at highlights of Robinson, he ran the break extremely well. Dude's speed and agility were superlative, just like Wemby's size and skill combination. David had his share of touchdown passes where he basically outran his defense to create an opening. Had Robinson started running too soon, he would've run out of space to create separation. Wemby's not Robinson in terms of speed, but he's probably the closest thing the Spurs have had in that regard.

Basically Robinson knew even during his rookie season what his advantages were and how to use them to score. Whether he knew that because he was a grown man or because Larry Brown told him to, Young Dave started off much better acclimatized to the NBA than Wemby is. Victor is not a static NBA player. As he matures, he'll develop static elements just like David did. Movement players can absolutely tear holes in a defense. At this point in his career, I think Wemby is much more of a timing player, and his development would be best used on getting him to recognize those windows and on his teammates to look for him during those windows. As I've said before, if you put players in artificial situations where you create and exploit windows of Wemby flashing, you'll teach them how to create and exploit those situations organically. The Spurs hopefully will get to a point where they don't need to run very many plays, but they damned sure aren't at that point yet.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV3Of08-gaI

[Chinook]

Yeah Chinook you are all about the place on this one. You go from not knowing “the angles” to making up excuse to making up plays and are now in the making up scenarios stage. It’s a weird progression. You keep saying it isn’t the job of the offense to get Wemby shots. You’re already wrong. That’s exactly the job of the offense. We are supposed to draw up plays for him to get the ball in spots he likes to get it. I don’t know why you don’t think that. It’s a little frightening hearing that from you.

So a lot of this sounds like you're not actually looking at what I'm saying. Like I never said it's not the offense's job to get Wemby shots. I've said over and over and over and over at this point that it is a problem that the offense isn't getting Wemby shots. Wemby should be getting good shots from the offense. I said that it's not the POINT to get him shots. The point of the offense is the be efficient and easy. You're trying to win games here, whether that happens this year or eventually. Getting Wemby shots is one of the mechanisms to do that. So if you don't get that, even while responding to a post where I literally say that getting Wemby shots should be a major element if not the foundation of the offense.


Wemby is the number one option Chinook.

What hypothetical are you talking about? In the real world, Wemby is 20th in the league in USG%, he's 18 in FGA and sixth in turnovers. He uses a ton of possessions. No, he doesn't use as many as prime superstars, but he uses as many if not more than those players used at his age. He's at Prime Tim levels of usage. That's the reality. No one is talking about the Chicago game here. That was a bad game. We're talking about the season as a whole.


First off, nobody said that, and secondly why don’t you believe in the franchise player to do better with more touches and more shots. It’s a weird mentality.

Wemby is currently averaging 25 used possessions per 36. The only reason why you're reading that as too few touches to get a rhythm is because of your bias. I'm not saying that to insult you. I legit mean that you are so focused on Wemby that you aren't looking at the rest of the league. He needs higher-quality touches, but the amount is already extremely high for the Spurs historically.


The reason why Wemby leads the Spurs in TOs in bc he gets the ball outta position so much and has to create his own shot. Dude fights in the paint, doesn’t get the ball bc supposedly nobody knows how to throw a pass I learned in 5th grade, and then traverses to the 3 point line to get the ball from a dead on chest pass bc apparently our team is only good enough to do 1st grade level passes. Then he is outta position, not in a comfortable spot, not in rhythm, and the shot clock is winding down. It’s stupid offense to do that to him.

So you seriously posted this while accusing me of "making up excuse to making up plays and are now in the making up scenarios"? Can it never occur to you that Wemby might just be young and that he doesn't necessarily know how to play his best ball against the best competition in the world? No, man. It's not everyone else's fault all the time if his possessions don't work out. No, I'm not saying it's ALWAYS his fault either. Think about how many assumptions you have to make to hold the view you just posted. It's irrational and not supported by what's actually happening ont the court.


Idgaf if he is inefficient, there’s zero proof of that btw,

Dude, what the fuck at this point? Like is there proof that he's always going to be an inefficient player? What the hell would that even look like. No one's saying that. But is there evidence that he's been ridiculously inefficient so far? Yes. That's not debatable. Like if you just don't want to look it up, that's fine. But NBA.com has really detailed stats, and you can see from his shot chart that he's below-average to well below-average at every place on the court other than inside the circle and at the left wing. If you can't see that, then you're only demonstrating how much the bias is getting to you.


He gets 20 shots a game. That’s the expectation going forward.

As I said, he's already doing that. Complaining about him not getting that in a game where he missed a stint and then turning yourself inside out because people are talking about the rest of the season doesn't negate that.


We get him the ball where he likes to get the ball.

Again, no if that means just whenever he raises his hand. For all the talk about how David was just like Wemby and how I was lying or whatever, David didn't do what you think Wemby should do. He was an off-ball player as a rookie who knew how to pick his spots rather than trying to swing his dick around like you think Victor has to do.


Luka gets the ball and shoots the most
Giannis gets the ball and shoots the most
Joker gets the ball ans shoots the most
Steph gets the ball and shoots the most
Lebron gets the ball and shoots the most
fucking Halliburton gets the ball and shoots the most

Victor gets the ball and shoots the most. Every single one of those players is better than Wemby. We all hope that Wemby is better than all of those guys, but he's not there yet, and if he's even as good as one of them, it would be a success. You're so skewed that you said "Fucking Haliburton" as if the dude isn't a superstar. Holy shit man, take a chill pill.


on the Spurs VW shoots once more a game than Vassell and only 2 more than KJ and somehow only 5 more than Collins AND Sochan. That’s criminal man and THAT is not winning basketball or good offense

Five more shots a game is a whole fucking lot. Anyway, the FGA doesn't reflect actual usage, which Wemby dominates compared to his teammates.



Rk
Player
Age
TS%
USG%
WS/48
BPM
VORP


1
Victor Wembanyama
20
0.52
29.3
0.013
-0.4
0.3


2
Devin Vassell
23
0.589
23.8
0.059
0
0.3


3
Keldon Johnson
24
0.573
21.3
0.069
-0.7
0.3


4
Zach Collins
26
0.579
21.3
0.042
-2
0


5
Malaki Branham
20
0.527
18.5
-0.018
-5.6
-0.6


6
Jeremy Sochan
20
0.488
18.2
-0.013
-5.1
-0.6


7
Julian Champagnie
22
0.555
17.4
0.009
-2.2
0


8
Cedi Osman
28
0.582
17.3
0.053
-2.4
0


9
Blake Wesley
20
0.465
17
0.053
-1.6
0


10
Sandro Mamukelashvili
24
0.488
16.4
0.039
-2.3
0


11
Tre Jones
24
0.541
15.9
0.048
-2.9
-0.1


12
Doug McDermott
32
0.615
14.2
0.051
-2.5
-0.1


13
Devonte' Graham
28
0.497
13.8
0.106
-1.2
0


14
Charles Bassey
23
0.739
11.8
0.144
0.9
0.2


15
Dominick Barlow
20
0.43
10.8
-0.009
-8.8
-0.1


16
Sidy Cissoko
19

6
-0.205
-16.6
0

[scott]

https://twitter.com/NBAMemes/status/1738059138943557693

We can only hope that the young players, all of whom are on social media, and the Spurs media team see shit like this. It's one thing for Spurs fans who watch every game to notice... it's another thing for the entire world to notice.

[Tyronn Lue]

Dude, you literally said "This seems to boggle the minds of a lot of posters but the point of the Spurs offense isn't to get Wemby a bunch of shots. That should be a major element, if not the foundation. But Wemby scoring is a means to an end. The Spurs offense is dysfunctional when Wemby is on the floor, and that's not just because they don't pass him the ball as much as he would like."

How can "the point of the offense" not be to get Wemby shots, but that still be the foundation of the offense?

real simple actually. Victor should be getting shots. Victor isn't getting shots. Foundation, point, whatever. The fucking scrubs should pass him the ball or be waived/benched.

I can PROMISE you this would not happen on the Lakers. The fans would revolt.

Lebron averaged over 18FGA a game in his rookie season, right out of high school.

[scott]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/vassell-spurs-know-wembanyama-s-strengths-18569892.php

Vassell: We need to do a better job feeding Wemby

Also Vassell: [Dribbles around for 15 seconds, jacks up a 28 foot 3pt shot out of a triple team with 2 seconds left on the shot clock]

[scott]

1738224757341143346

Now that's some wild shit.

[scott]

There's a difference between a polished rookie "not knowing what they're doing" and a raw rookie. Wemby doesn't even know what position he's playing at this point, let alone expressing his game to fit there. There's a lot from watching David that Victor can learn, because a lot of the things people assume Wemby would be able to do at an elite level right away are things Robinson was already good at. But David did some things very differently to create his looks. For example, his normal position the court was in the short corner/dunker spot. That's an excellent place for a big to hang out because he's open for dump-off passes, is in good position for an offensive rebound, and he can post up really quickly. Along those lines, Young Robinson didn't constantly try to get open. Because he was comfortable being an off-ball player, he would read the defense and flash to his scoring areas when the moment was right. A lot of his post-up plays involved him having the ball for like a second. He's basically read his guard, flash, seal, present a target, slide to the ball and finish. That's a far cry from how Wemby is posting up right now, which is usually done completely independent of what anyone else is doing and is being held for too long while Wemby gets rooted out of position.

I'm also becoming of the mind that Wemby would have more success in transition running the floor with the rest of the players rather than trying to cherry-picking. Basketball is a four-dimensional game, and where you are when the ball is 75 feet away from the basket is so much less important than where you are when the ball is 25 feet away. Most of the openings on fast breaks down come from break-aways. Most come from getting numbers on the defenders, creating conflict and exploiting the spacing. Looking at highlights of Robinson, he ran the break extremely well. Dude's speed and agility were superlative, just like Wemby's size and skill combination. David had his share of touchdown passes where he basically outran his defense to create an opening. Had Robinson started running too soon, he would've run out of space to create separation. Wemby's not Robinson in terms of speed, but he's probably the closest thing the Spurs have had in that regard.

Basically Robinson knew even during his rookie season what his advantages were and how to use them to score. Whether he knew that because he was a grown man or because Larry Brown told him to, Young Dave started off much better acclimatized to the NBA than Wemby is. Victor is not a static NBA player. As he matures, he'll develop static elements just like David did. Movement players can absolutely tear holes in a defense. At this point in his career, I think Wemby is much more of a timing player, and his development would be best used on getting him to recognize those windows and on his teammates to look for him during those windows. As I've said before, if you put players in artificial situations where you create and exploit windows of Wemby flashing, you'll teach them how to create and exploit those situations organically. The Spurs hopefully will get to a point where they don't need to run very many plays, but they damned sure aren't at that point yet.

Isn't this the coach's job?

[spurraider21]

Isn't this the coach's job?
chinook has been a vocal critic of pop this year tbh

[scott]

^^^ true, and I do recognize this

[FutureMan]

Is there a site that breaks down every assist on who made it and who hit the shot? Would be nice to see who the outliers are.

[spursparker9]

1738224757341143346

Now that's some wild shit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1zDYAVDfYE

:lol If only Wemby knew...at that time

[tbdog]

Wemby calls for the ball too often with no regard for his position to do that. It's really clear that he does not know how to read an NBA defense right now. That's what development is supposed to mean. He doesn't know what a good spot for him is -- he's shooting like 30 percent away from the charge circle.

I noticed this a lot since recently. He cuts really hard and fights extremely hard to get a moment of air, for only the passing angles to never be in his favour. This is IMO the main factor behind his conditioning right now and why he can't play high 30 mins. He is gassing himself for little reason. I understand that we are taught in sports, all sports really, to do the small things at 100%. But it's about being smarter when you need to use all your energy. Wemby hasn't learnt that yet.

He could easily decide to seal his man on the opposite side of the play and wait/hope the ball swings around or be in favoured position to get the offensive rebound. But instead he cuts and fights, puts his hand up for the ball and there was also going to be a very low chance the ball could safely get to him. I wonder while typing this, is his height a disadvantage for his awareness? Does he think he is more open than he really is?

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think Chinook is wrong about his criticisms of Wemby in that he lacks positioning and calls for the ball too much. He's alright right that Wemby's usage is high. But Spurs fans in general are also right that the offense does not nearly enough to get the ball to Wemby in good spots which means the usage is high in a way that doesn't make it feel like the Spurs are actually trying to use Wemby appropriately because they're not. As far as I'm concerned, none of this is on any of issues are things Wemby is responsible for solving. He asks for the ball a lot because he's by far the best player out there and its beyond obvious. I go back and forth on some of these players because the lack of a cohesive system on either end of the court is such a detriment that I can't tell how bad our team actually is but then they do shit that is so inncredibly stupid (like basic basketball fundamental shit that Wemby has a handle on so much more than any other person on this team) and it also seems to be that it is possible they are just dumb. The fact is that the lack of modern systems on either end of the court just makes it impossible to know where we are as a team.

[offset formation]

Vassell: We need to do a better job feeding Wemby

Also Vassell: [Dribbles around for 15 seconds, jacks up a 28 foot 3pt shot out of a triple team with 2 seconds left on the shot clock]

The worst offender of not getting the ball to Wemby are Vassell and Johnson.

[SupremeGuy]

We can only hope that the young players, all of whom are on social media, and the Spurs media team see shit like this. It's one thing for Spurs fans who watch every game to notice... it's another thing for the entire world to notice.Something I don't want either, is for the locker room to turn against Wenby. Force feeding him just to make it all a show.

It sucks. It doesn't feel like they've played like a team since their first few games.

[SupremeGuy]

The worst offender of not getting the ball to Wemby are Vassell and Johnson.Everyone other than Cedi tbh. Too many times I've seen Wemby open for a pass when instead they'll take a 3.

[DeRozan m8]

1738224757341143346

Now that's some wild shit.

This fvcking says it all.

Fire the fvcking morons still trying this Sochan bullshit and trade for a real fucking PG

Any moron can see trading KJ while he has some sort of stock is the way to go...along with Doug or whatever.

Just fucking do it you cunts

[spursparker9]

https://twitter.com/NBAMemes/status/1738192742277337142

[widowmaker]

Those mother fuckers could careless that they are clowning them on social media.

[Pauleta14]

Sochan tweeted ":lol:lol:lol:lol"

[Seventyniner]

At this point memes and narratives are greatly crowding out reality.

Of course Youtube creators and such are going to go with the "omg Wemby's teammates are freezing him out" narrative because it is trendy and gets clicks/views. I can't be certain why the same attitude is catching on here, I guess this place is more of an echo chamber than I realized.

When you dig into the actual numbers, they prove that Wemby is not being frozen out, that his usage rate is far ahead of all his teammates (along with being up there in the league rankings), and that he is very inefficient on offense (at least some of which is his own fault).

[james evans]

When he asks to be traded, I don't want you guys that tried to shit on Kawhi and Murray to say a goddamn thing

[itzsoweezee]

At this point memes and narratives are greatly crowding out reality.

Of course Youtube creators and such are going to go with the "omg Wemby's teammates are freezing him out" narrative because it is trendy and gets clicks/views. I can't be certain why the same attitude is catching on here, I guess this place is more of an echo chamber than I realized.

When you dig into the actual numbers, they prove that Wemby is not being frozen out, that his usage rate is far ahead of all his teammates (along with being up there in the league rankings), and that he is very inefficient on offense (at least some of which is his own fault).

Actually watch the games bro. Not all touches are created equal. Wemby gets very low quality touches from his teammates and easy scoring opportunities are constantly passed up

[SupremeGuy]

At this point memes and narratives are greatly crowding out reality.

Of course Youtube creators and such are going to go with the "omg Wemby's teammates are freezing him out" narrative because it is trendy and gets clicks/views. I can't be certain why the same attitude is catching on here, I guess this place is more of an echo chamber than I realized.

When you dig into the actual numbers, they prove that Wemby is not being frozen out, that his usage rate is far ahead of all his teammates (along with being up there in the league rankings), and that he is very inefficient on offense (at least some of which is his own fault).https://dslntlv9vhjr4.cloudfront.net/posts_images/12hJjXOURUrgU.jpg

[Extra Stout]

I guess I should have known that there were moles from the Spurs’ front office in this forum.

[baseline bum]

Something I don't want either, is for the locker room to turn against Wenby. Force feeding him just to make it all a show.

It sucks. It doesn't feel like they've played like a team since their first few games.

I don't care if the locker room gets jealous. They can all fucking go, only Vassell is good enough to possibly even want on this team in 3 years when Vic is hitting his prime.

[SayNoToDrugsTBH]

Sochan tweeted ":lol:lol:lol:lol"

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbmdxdnRzY3MzMndndndtcGhhczlnY3Z najZwMDdienJoaXdrZWtzbiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/tRnbfKxyLl7B8AujLG/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Jordan Jackson]

Actually watch the games bro. Not all touches are created equal. Wemby gets very low quality touches from his teammates and easy scoring opportunities are constantly passed up

correct. People keep leaning on “Usage Rate” - it’s misleading. I think “Player Touches” stats are telling the true story or gives better insight.

Now. I don’t believe they are freezing Wemby. They are just really poor passers and in some cases players overall.

[Obstructed_View]

At this point memes and narratives are greatly crowding out reality.

Of course Youtube creators and such are going to go with the "omg Wemby's teammates are freezing him out" narrative because it is trendy and gets clicks/views. I can't be certain why the same attitude is catching on here, I guess this place is more of an echo chamber than I realized.

When you dig into the actual numbers, they prove that Wemby is not being frozen out, that his usage rate is far ahead of all his teammates (along with being up there in the league rankings), and that he is very inefficient on offense (at least some of which is his own fault).
I'm certain I used the term "freezing out" to describe what the team is doing long before the echo chamber formed, scro.

[Obstructed_View]

Actually watch the games bro. Not all touches are created equal. Wemby gets very low quality touches from his teammates and easy scoring opportunities are constantly passed up
The quality of his attempts has taken a fucking nosedive in December. His catch and shoot attempts are near zero.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This whole roster needs to be turned over. Wemby needs real help out there.

[eric365]

At this point memes and narratives are greatly crowding out reality.

Of course Youtube creators and such are going to go with the "omg Wemby's teammates are freezing him out" narrative because it is trendy and gets clicks/views. I can't be certain why the same attitude is catching on here, I guess this place is more of an echo chamber than I realized.

When you dig into the actual numbers, they prove that Wemby is not being frozen out, that his usage rate is far ahead of all his teammates (along with being up there in the league rankings), and that he is very inefficient on offense (at least some of which is his own fault).

Watch the games

Getting the ball at the 3 points line is not what you expect as quality touch as a big man
You expect your guard to CREATE something that will lead to a pass to the big man near the basket. You also expect good entry pass when the big man has established position near the basket.
And clearly the whole roster is unable to do that except Tre and Vessel at times

Teamates unable to create is a major problem that will need to change them in order to progress
Wemby stopping to jack low percentage 3 pointers is a minor problem easy to fix. He didn’t do that in the french league

[Spurs Homer]

This past summer, did the Spurs even take a shot at

Lillard?
Holliday?
Lowry?
Chrissy paul?


shit even that moron - cam payne-
was an upgrade over the garbage we have now

Spurs mismanagement

[Seventyniner]

Watch the games

Getting the ball at the 3 points line is not what you expect as quality touch as a big man
You expect your guard to CREATE something that will lead to a pass to the big man near the basket. You also expect good entry pass when the big man has established position near the basket.
And clearly the whole roster is unable to do that except Tre and Vessel at times

Teamates unable to create is a major problem that will need to change them in order to progress
Wemby stopping to jack low percentage 3 pointers is a minor problem easy to fix. He didn’t do that in the french league

I said some of Wemby's inefficiency is his fault, not all.

If Wemby's teammates are unable to get him the ball in good spots that's completely different than them being unwilling to, which is what freezing out is.

[CorrectCrusader]

I said some of Wemby's inefficiency is his fault, not all.

If Wemby's teammates are unable to get him the ball in good spots that's completely different than them being unwilling to, which is what freezing out is.

The point of this thread is showing that his teammates are either the worst ever or unwilling, whichever you choose is damning to the player

[Seventyniner]

The point of this thread is showing that his teammates are either the worst ever or unwilling, whichever you choose is damning to the player

Coming into the season we already knew Wemby's teammates sucked. They went 22-60 last year. I'm just pushing back against the narrative that they are deliberately freezing him out, i.e. refusing to pass him the ball when they otherwise could. The numbers don't support the freezing out narrative at all, and the videos/stills really don't either; it's easy to think Wemby is wide open when you have a bird's eye view and the benefit of pausing time.

[CorrectCrusader]

Coming into the season we already knew Wemby's teammates sucked. They went 22-60 last year. I'm just pushing back against the narrative that they are deliberately freezing him out, i.e. refusing to pass him the ball when they otherwise could. The numbers don't support the freezing out narrative at all, and the videos/stills really don't either; it's easy to think Wemby is wide open when you have a bird's eye view and the benefit of pausing time.

We went 22-60 last year and we're on pace for like 9 wins this year. Lmao

[Tyronn Lue]

It's easy to see that few on the team get "good touches" since so many of the passes are more like fumbles, they are off target, poorly timed or ill conceived. Watching the team play without Victor on the court it's obvious they aren't really good enough to freeze anyone out. It's more likely they are just incompetent.

[Tyronn Lue]

Coming into the season we already knew Wemby's teammates sucked. They went 22-60 last year. I'm just pushing back against the narrative that they are deliberately freezing him out, i.e. refusing to pass him the ball when they otherwise could. The numbers don't support the freezing out narrative at all, and the videos/stills really don't either; it's easy to think Wemby is wide open when you have a bird's eye view and the benefit of pausing time.
I think anyone who regularly watches the game has seen enough passes in transition and over the top lobs to know what's possible. You seem to think people just now got that bird's eye view.

[Seventyniner]

It's easy to see that few on the team get "good touches" since so many of the passes are more like fumbles, they are off target, poorly timed or ill conceived. Watching the team play without Victor on the court it's obvious they aren't really good enough to freeze anyone out. It's more likely they are just incompetent.

That's what I think too. It's a form of Hanlon's Razor: don't assume something is caused by malice when it can be explained just as well by ignorance, or in this case incompetence.


I think anyone who regularly watches the game has seen enough passes in transition and over the top lobs to know what's possible. You seem to think people just now got that bird's eye view.

No, that wasn't my point. I'm saying that it isn't enough for Victor to be open, you also need the man with the ball to both know Victor is open and be able to get the ball to him while he's open. Those last two are not always easy, or even possible, to deduce from the bird's eye view. And as you said above, there's a level of talent and BBIQ those last two things require that are in short supply in the rest of the squad.

[Obstructed_View]

This whole roster needs to be turned over. Wemby needs real help out there.
Disagree. Game planning touches for Victor, benching guys who don't look his way are coaching adjustments.

If everyone can see the problem and the players are doing whatever they want it doesn't matter if they're good or bad, and how would you tell the difference?

[Tyronn Lue]

That's what I think too. It's a form of Hanlon's Razor: don't assume something is caused by malice when it can be explained just as well by ignorance, or in this case incompetence.



No, that wasn't my point. I'm saying that it isn't enough for Victor to be open, you also need the man with the ball to both know Victor is open and be able to get the ball to him while he's open. Those last two are not always easy, or even possible, to deduce from the bird's eye view. And as you said above, there's a level of talent and BBIQ those last two things require that are in short supply in the rest of the squad.
I think the reason people pull their hair out over it is because the guy with the ball doesn't see that Victor is open. I'd like to see if I can throw the ball to Victor in the post. I'm pretty sure I'd get it up there for him to get a pretty decent shot at grabbing it and I'm not even close to Sochan's height or basketball skill level.

[Slippy]

It the offense they running and lack of competent pg that cant shoot hurting the spurs. Trey Jones is their best option but opposition dont respect him on the three. Wemby and to a lesser extent Vassell having to take too many shots out of offense.

Theres been heaps of games where the likes of Collins and Keldon are getting most of the ops out of the offense.


Its falls on Pop.

[spurraider21]

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbmdxdnRzY3MzMndndndtcGhhczlnY3Z najZwMDdienJoaXdrZWtzbiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/tRnbfKxyLl7B8AujLG/giphy-downsized-large.gif
Perfect :lol

[CorrectCrusader]

I don't think there were any last night.

[MannyIsGod]

The Vassel/Wemby/Keldon break today was so fucking bad. It really is getting to the point with Devin that there is a non zero chance he's actively avoiding passing to Wemby at times.

[spurraider21]

The Vassel/Wemby/Keldon break today was so fucking bad. It really is getting to the point with Devin that there is a non zero chance he's actively avoiding passing to Wemby at times.
He just threw him an alley oop

[itzsoweezee]

We were assured by people on here that his teammates were simply unable to pass the ball to Victor in scoring situations, and that Victor was not really as open as he seems (even though he is virtually unguardable). I wonder how the rationalizations are going to shift now

[FkLA]

The fans, opposing commentators, and writers finally bullied these motherfuckers into looking for Wemby. What a coincidence that they can magically find him now even though they acted incredulous at the idea that they were avoiding him. :lol

[NASpurs]

We've seen glimpses of this before. I'm not going to start celebrating that they've finally figured it out until I see it constantly.

[Pauleta14]

Vassel finally passed the ball in the end but I suspect it was a directive from Pop

He and KJ kept avoiding him all night

[spurraider21]

1738030848933245158
not a very different scenario. wemby doesnt need a wide open path to an alley-oop dunk in order for there to be a good pass to be made. gotta give your 7'4 guy a chance to convert these looks. glad sochan did so this time.

cant always count on the play breaking down leading to an uncontested dunk the way it did with the first instance where he passed out to cedi instead
1740574547936694591

[Joseph Kony]

can you imagine how many more alley oops Vic would've converted by now if we had a legit PG? dude is a lob threat every second he is out there and the Spurs don't utilize this anywhere near as much as they should because they cant pass for shit

[vy65]

https://youtu.be/c7T_MMLnH-4?si=vK2WsWWv2syuE1QK

Legler’s speculation has been that the team was/is coached intentionally not to find Wemby to protect him from higher expectations ….

[spurraider21]

can you imagine how many more alley oops Vic would've converted by now if we had a legit PG? dude is a lob threat every second he is out there and the Spurs don't utilize this anywhere near as much as they should because they cant pass for shit
i think he would honestly average 10ppg on lobs alone if he had andre miller

[Tyronn Lue]

The fans, opposing commentators, and writers finally bullied these motherfuckers into looking for Wemby. What a coincidence that they can magically find him now even though they acted incredulous at the idea that they were avoiding him. :lol
Some here acted incredulous at that notion as well.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://youtu.be/c7T_MMLnH-4?si=vK2WsWWv2syuE1QK

Legler’s speculation has been that the team was/is coached intentionally not to find Wemby to protect him from higher expectations ….

everytime Pop does some dumb shit people come out and act like it’s some genius secret strategy. We‘ve seen this movie before

[Pauleta14]

JJ Reddick said it "I don't want to criticise Pop blabla..."

Why??

No surprised Pop ends up having a god complex when hes never ever challenged...

[CorrectCrusader]

https://i.imgur.com/Ag81p0X.png

[lefty]

Fuck Giancarlo Esposito and his hero balling

[My Fault]

https://i.imgur.com/Ag81p0X.png
There was 3 seconds left, you ride Wemby's nuts so hard you have over a 1,000 post since he was drafted. Please stop posting as if you suddenly add value as a Wemby nut rider, we all love that we got him but holy fuck dude.

[Pauleta14]

Go listen to Vassel's post game interview... :lol

This guy is insane, no accuntaility, denial and bs

[CorrectCrusader]

There was 3 seconds left, you ride Wemby's nuts so hard you have over a 1,000 post since he was drafted. Please stop posting as if you suddenly add value as a Wemby nut rider, we all love that we got him but holy fuck dude.

suck my dick pal

[My Fault]

suck my dick pal
I'm sure as a Wemby dick rider you would love that, doesn't change the fact you are a bandwagon fan and post way too much with nothing of value.

[CorrectCrusader]

I'm sure as a Wemby dick rider you would love that, doesn't change the fact you are a bandwagon fan and post way too much with nothing of value.

Buddy I literally watched Bryn forbes start. I've been going to games since I was 5. And I've been browsing the forum long before I figured out how to register. So suck my dick grandpa

[Chinook]

Three seconds is not a lot of time to make a lob and have the guy catch and finish. A lot of these still shots assume the other guys should have a Spidey sense for when Wemby's man is not on him and then that the ball would teleport to Wemby's hands. Thinking Basketball posted a Wemby video the other day which is fine for what it is. But there's a part in there when he's showing an example of the Spurs missing Wemby for a lob, and his example had Vassell with two guys in his face. It's like, no, a lob wouldn't work there. There was a window for a bounce pass, but it would've involved barely getting it by two sets of hands. Even with that, that pass would've had a higher chance of success than a lob.

The team is still learning, and they have good and bad moments. That goes for tunnel vision, play design/focus and Victor's own play. This thread being dormant for weeks is a testament to the team's progress in that regard. All of the shit people speculated about the other guys hating Victor or avoiding him out of jealousy have zero support. Coaching, in terms of practice, game planning and play-calling, has improved. More experience and a better penetrator would continue to help. What I can't say helps is to continue treading into conspiracy. Victor's usage continues to increase as the year goes on, but teams are also getting better at devising methods to disrupt Wemby's possessions. Those methods can be countered, but learning to do so takes time. The lineup is a bunch of kids. They aren't going to be perfect.

[My Fault]

Buddy I literally watched Bryn forbes start. I've been going to games since I was 5. And I've been browsing the forum long before I figured out how to register. So suck my dick grandpa
Yet only decided to join after Wemby, I'm sure every one believes you, dick rider :lol

[Tyronn Lue]

Yet only decided to join after Wemby, I'm sure every one believes you, dick rider :lol
I vote troll. :lol

[Thomas82]

Go listen to Vassel's post game interview... :lol

This guy is insane, no accuntaility, denial and bs

I saw that and the tweet from Don Harris.....very disturbing!!

[z0sa]

Definitely missed Wemby. In the moment, I wasn’t too mad but you just dont understand basketball if you think the shot was the right play in hindsight.

[CorrectCrusader]

Yet only decided to join after Wemby, I'm sure every one believes you, dick rider :lol

I didn't know how to register. I only found this website like four years ago. Registering via the website is closed.

[My Fault]

I didn't know how to register. I only found this website like four years ago. Registering via the website is closed.
Didn't know how to register? Yeah, the internet is hard :lol

[poopbox]

Three seconds is not a lot of time to make a lob and have the guy catch and finish. A lot of these still shots assume the other guys should have a Spidey sense for when Wemby's man is not on him and then that the ball would teleport to Wemby's hands. Thinking Basketball posted a Wemby video the other day which is fine for what it is. But there's a part in there when he's showing an example of the Spurs missing Wemby for a lob, and his example had Vassell with two guys in his face. It's like, no, a lob wouldn't work there. There was a window for a bounce pass, but it would've involved barely getting it by two sets of hands. Even with that, that pass would've had a higher chance of success than a lob.

The team is still learning, and they have good and bad moments. That goes for tunnel vision, play design/focus and Victor's own play. This thread being dormant for weeks is a testament to the team's progress in that regard. All of the shit people speculated about the other guys hating Victor or avoiding him out of jealousy have zero support. Coaching, in terms of practice, game planning and play-calling, has improved. More experience and a better penetrator would continue to help. What I can't say helps is to continue treading into conspiracy. Victor's usage continues to increase as the year goes on, but teams are also getting better at devising methods to disrupt Wemby's possessions. Those methods can be countered, but learning to do so takes time. The lineup is a bunch of kids. They aren't going to be perfect.

3 seconds is PLENTY of fucking time to toss the ball around the rim and let Victor go get it. It's not like Devin has to make some crazy super pin point pass :lol

It's definitely plenty of time in comparison to what Dipshit Devin actually ended up doing with the ball :lol

You don't need to "pass the ball to Wemby". You just need to "throw the ball around the rim."

[CorrectCrusader]

Didn't know how to register? Yeah, the internet is hard :lol

half your posts in the last half decade must be about me at this point buddy

[Pauleta14]

Missing Wemby isn't what bothers me the most, his lack of accountability is

It happens, you missed him, own it and move on to the next game etc

But his reaction means he's either in denial or refuses to own it (ego)

[SayNoToDrugsTBH]

https://scontent.fmnl25-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424990236_701966872119487_8837224066994195955_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_eui2=AeEYlOIFboQst8t7h5md-_qM2pdvW_0hxpnal29b_SHGmQ_U3uCV7QRc-uBoE58fWWqWXDFvaRb7_8fRqC-WU3sc&_nc_ohc=FjsoJDMcREEAX93nW09&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl25-2.fna&oh=00_AfAW5haoisTtdmHXpUOjcDH1RRY1GguMQCJwOn9Ft1JH YQ&oe=65C317D2

[Pauleta14]

Wow 1st time I see an offical media taking a position

[RC_Drunkford]

absolutely idiotic statement by Vassell. Pop should chew him out for taking that shot.

[get_mills_out]

Need a running thread of open three point looks that teammates brick while 3 defenders mug Wemby

[Tyronn Lue]

Need a running thread of open three point looks that teammates brick while 3 defenders mug Wemby
Agree but odd user name for someone who wants better 3pt shooting.

[Tyronn Lue]

https://scontent.fmnl25-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424990236_701966872119487_8837224066994195955_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_eui2=AeEYlOIFboQst8t7h5md-_qM2pdvW_0hxpnal29b_SHGmQ_U3uCV7QRc-uBoE58fWWqWXDFvaRb7_8fRqC-WU3sc&_nc_ohc=FjsoJDMcREEAX93nW09&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl25-2.fna&oh=00_AfAW5haoisTtdmHXpUOjcDH1RRY1GguMQCJwOn9Ft1JH YQ&oe=65C317D2
The Spurs already told Vassell he's the guy when they gave him that contract. He couldn't care less about Victor since Victor probably has his road paved already while Devin is still seeking his next contract with whatever team he gets traded to. We look at wins and losses and team basketball. Some of these guys look at getting paid and staying in the league.

[get_mills_out]

Agree but odd user name for someone who wants better 3pt shooting.


Loved Patty in 2013/14 when he was shooting lights out in a small role

Seven years later when he was playing 25mpg I was ready to be done

[MultiTroll]

The Spurs already told Vassell he's the guy when they gave him that contract. He couldn't care less about Victor since Victor probably has his road paved already while Devin is still seeking his next contract with whatever team he gets traded to. We look at wins and losses and team basketball. Some of these guys look at getting paid and staying in the league.
Attitude.
MeBall over TeamBall has no place on a Timmy Duncan foundation team.

But ya, Popped aint gonna do shit about it because he has the same attitude. Sits around waiting for the end of the game to do his attention whore virtue signaling forced hob nobbing with opponents.

Major error with Vassell. But, still salvageable.
We'll see what the future brings.

[scott]

Rough comment from Vassell. Not super upset that he didn’t make the pass yesterday, but definitely concerned that his tunnel vision is a permanent condition

[Tyronn Lue]

Attitude.
MeBall over TeamBall has no place on a Timmy Duncan foundation team.

But ya, Popped aint gonna do shit about it because he has the same attitude. Sits around waiting for the end of the game to do his attention whore virtue signaling forced hob nobbing with opponents.

Major error with Vassell. But, still salvageable.
We'll see what the future brings.
I'm sure Devin has the freedom to make decisions on the floor. Pop has to live with those choices and see how it goes or put him in check. I expect to see changes to the offense next season but if Pop doesn't start "experimenting" with it after the AS break, I won't have much faith that Pop has a long term plan.

[baseline bum]

Need a running thread of open three point looks that teammates brick while 3 defenders mug Wemby

Even worse when there are 0 defenders mugging Wemby

[MultiTroll]

I'm sure Devin has the freedom to make decisions on the floor. Pop has to live with those choices and see how it goes or put him in check. I expect to see changes to the offense next season but if Pop doesn't start "experimenting" with it after the AS break, I won't have much faith that Pop has a long term plan.
One extreme would be micro managing and trying to adjust every little move by younger players.
Popped is the exact opposite. Shit we've been seeing for ages and he still has not addressed?
Vassell and Johnson being selfish chuckers who ignore Wemby is old as hell. Even if this is Wembys first 50 games.

Popped has been done since Zaza phucked Kawhi over.

[MultiTroll]

Btw can we get a pic / vid of Chucky Vassells final Kobme shot with Victor open?

All I've found are in 5 minute game recaps.

[CorrectCrusader]

Btw can we get a pic / vid of Chucky Vassells final Kobme shot with Victor open?

All I've found are in 5 minute game recaps.

Posted already earlier in the thread. page 6 I think

[Pauleta14]

The Spurs already told Vassell he's the guy when they gave him that contract. He couldn't care less about Victor since Victor probably has his road paved already while Devin is still seeking his next contract with whatever team he gets traded to. We look at wins and losses and team basketball. Some of these guys look at getting paid and staying in the league.

This!!

thank you

[MultiTroll]

https://i.imgur.com/Ag81p0X.png


Posted already earlier in the thread. page 6 I think
This one?
Ya i was hoping to see the few seconds before.
Looks like Kobme could easily fire a jump shot - pass. Since it would take Wemby 0.04 seconds to gather the pass and flush.

[Chinook]

3 seconds is PLENTY of fucking time to toss the ball around the rim and let Victor go get it. It's not like Devin has to make some crazy super pin point pass :lol

It's definitely plenty of time in comparison to what Dipshit Devin actually ended up doing with the ball :lol

This suggests you don't understand how a shot clock works. Vassell only needs to get the ball out of his hands in three seconds. It doesn't have to make it to the rim. A pass to the rim DOES have to be caught and out of the players hands before the clock expires. The gap in time that takes is massive.


You don't need to "pass the ball to Wemby". You just need to "throw the ball around the rim."

You'd think by now people would realize this isn't true. Wemby has a wider catch radius than normal. He doesn't have as wide of one as people want to believe. He still needs good passes, ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have time to land, survey and shoot. It wouldn't surprise me at all if nearly half of the Spurs' turnovers every game come from Wemby or from his teammates trying to pass him the ball. Quite a few attempted lobs last night ended up deflected precisely because teams are adjusting to guard them. Given time and development, Wemby's ability to make contested catches and finish against pressure will increase along with his teammate's ability to hit that sweet spot where Victor is the only player who can catch it. But that takes real development. As I said, this has been such a minor issue that no one talked about it for a month, so the idea that it's a systemic issue doesn't hold water anymore.

[Chinook]

So here's a link to the play, in case one hasn't been provided: https://youtu.be/2DxWiZV1CVs?t=466



https://youtu.be/2DxWiZV1CVs?t=466


So this is a different situation than what I was thinking of. Vassell should've known Victor was going to be open, because that looks like it's the point of the play. So the read-and-react part shouldn't really factor into the time. I do think Vassell called his own number and took a shot that had a lower percentage of success than the pass would have -- even factoring in the caveats I said before. IF the play was supposed to be for Vassell, it's fine that he took the shot, both because of the timing and because he's the team's closer. IF the play was for Wemby as I suggested, then it's really bad he took that shot, bad enough to have knock on effects. It may or may not bother Wemby too much, but it would certainly bother Pop that Vassell showed an unwillingness to execute a play. Devin may not find himself with the ball in his hands in that situation the next time.

So I do admit I was wrong. I actually didn't think this conversation was about the end-of-game scenario, but a different play earlier in the second half that Sean commented on during the game. So I fully understand why folks are concerned in this thread. I'm not going to edit the response to poopbox, because I think it's fair for people to see the context of this post. I don't see there being a huge interpersonal issue here like some are fearing, but I do think it's going to make Pop's job harder if the players don't listen when he does try to intervene.

[Ariel]

The Spurs already told Vassell he's the guy when they gave him that contract. He couldn't care less about Victor since Victor probably has his road paved already while Devin is still seeking his next contract with whatever team he gets traded to. We look at wins and losses and team basketball. Some of these guys look at getting paid and staying in the league.
Vassell didn't get anywhere near a max contract, assuming every team has place for 2, he'd be more Catwoman than Robin, let alone Batman. If he has problems acknowledging that going forward, he can always be a nice piece of an outgoing package for someone who gets it.

[z0sa]

NBA is a business. If Vassell thinks he's still the man after going down with injury which caused us to get Wemby, well, good luck to him wherever he's headed out to.

[toki9]

So here's a link to the play, in case one hasn't been provided: https://youtu.be/2DxWiZV1CVs?t=466



https://youtu.be/2DxWiZV1CVs?t=466


So this is a different situation than what I was thinking of. Vassell should've known Victor was going to be open, because that looks like it's the point of the play. So the read-and-react part shouldn't really factor into the time. I do think Vassell called his own number and took a shot that had a lower percentage of success than the pass would have -- even factoring in the caveats I said before. IF the play was supposed to be for Vassell, it's fine that he took the shot, both because of the timing and because he's the team's closer. IF the play was for Wemby as I suggested, then it's really bad he took that shot, bad enough to have knock on effects. It may or may not bother Wemby too much, but it would certainly bother Pop that Vassell showed an unwillingness to execute a play. Devin may not find himself with the ball in his hands in that situation the next time.

So I do admit I was wrong. I actually didn't think this conversation was about the end-of-game scenario, but a different play earlier in the second half that Sean commented on during the game. So I fully understand why folks are concerned in this thread. I'm not going to edit the response to poopbox (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51600), because I think it's fair for people to see the context of this post. I don't see there being a huge interpersonal issue here like some are fearing, but I do think it's going to make Pop's job harder if the players don't listen when he does try to intervene.

I think the play was to inbound to Tre and then Tre decides on Vic or Vassell as the better option. But Tre got pushed/fouled so it got triggered to Vassell instead.

Also, a minor quibble on various people’s comments on how Vic didn’t take a shot in the last 7 minutes (I think they’re just going off based on Don Harris’ tweets) but Victor sat from 6:20 to 4:11, so that’s a part of it. And he had a couple of touches right away after he entered. The first offensive sequence following his return was a post-up, which resulted in a turnover. The there was high DHO sequence in which Vic passed it to driving Sochan that turned into 2 FT, and then another post-up sequence in which Vic passed to driving Vassell that resulted in 2 FT. So it’s little misleading to imply that he was ignored for the last 7 minutes. Sure, they could have done a better job, but it wasn’t as dire as that Harris’ tweet implied.

[poopbox]

This suggests you don't understand how a shot clock works. Vassell only needs to get the ball out of his hands in three seconds. It doesn't have to make it to the rim. A pass to the rim DOES have to be caught and out of the players hands before the clock expires. The gap in time that takes is massive.



You'd think by now people would realize this isn't true. Wemby has a wider catch radius than normal. He doesn't have as wide of one as people want to believe. He still needs good passes, ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have time to land, survey and shoot. It wouldn't surprise me at all if nearly half of the Spurs' turnovers every game come from Wemby or from his teammates trying to pass him the ball. Quite a few attempted lobs last night ended up deflected precisely because teams are adjusting to guard them. Given time and development, Wemby's ability to make contested catches and finish against pressure will increase along with his teammate's ability to hit that sweet spot where Victor is the only player who can catch it. But that takes real development. As I said, this has been such a minor issue that no one talked about it for a month, so the idea that it's a systemic issue doesn't hold water anymore.

I disagree completely with this take. And while you are correct that the team does turn the ball over a surprising amount when trying to throw him lobs...it's because those passes are not even close, and I feel like they are not even close because they are trying to throw Victor an accurate pass, which they can't do...because outside of Tre all of our guards are completely horrific at passing. Devin legit cannot even consistently throw an entry pass. If they would take the Tre Jones approach, and just toss the ball around the rim, we would convert on way more on those play's and it would force a lot more fouls, since it becomes noticeable when Victor is jumping toward the rim through contact instead of jumping in the air in general trying to catch some pass that is somehow behind him. All non Tre guards also for some reason wait until Victor is just directly under the basket to throw him the ball, where the defense has loaded up on him by then, but that's another story.

That is what my perception of what Tre actually does when tossing lobs to Victor, he just tosses it right around the rim, he doesn't actually throw the pass to Victor. If you look at some of the highlights sometimes Victor isn't even on his second step before Tre has already lobbed the ball. He has lobbed it to him when Victor was outside the 3 point line.

[rjv]

I think the play was to inbound to Tre and then Tre decides on Vic or Vassell as the better option. But Tre got pushed/fouled so it got triggered to Vassell instead.

Also, a minor quibble on various people’s comments on how Vic didn’t take a shot in the last 7 minutes (I think they’re just going off based on Don Harris’ tweets) but Victor sat from 6:20 to 4:11, so that’s a part of it. And he had a couple of touches right away after he entered. The first offensive sequence following his return was a post-up, which resulted in a turnover. The there was high DHO sequence in which Vic passed it to driving Sochan that turned into 2 FT, and then another post-up sequence in which Vic passed to driving Vassell that resulted in 2 FT. So it’s little misleading to imply that he was ignored for the last 7 minutes. Sure, they could have done a better job, but it wasn’t as dire as that Harris’ tweet implied.

first of all, anything Don Harris tweets is pretty much a clue, right off the bat, that it’s gonna be full of sh*t.

[MultiTroll]

Vassell didn't get anywhere near a max contract, assuming every team has place for 2, he'd be more Catwoman than Robin,
:lol
Good one.

Btw when will Vassell trim that Tweedle Dee hairtop?
Wonder if there is a risk of it getting caught in the netting.

[toki9]

first of all, anything Don Harris tweets is pretty much a clue, right off the bat, that it’s gonna be full of sh*t.

Does he have poor reputation in San Antonio? I don't live there, so no idea.

[MultiTroll]

So here's a link to the play, in case one hasn't been provided: https://youtu.be/2DxWiZV1CVs?t=466

So it’s little misleading to imply that he was ignored for the last 7 minutes. Sure, they could have done a better job, but it wasn’t as dire as that Harris’ tweet implied.
Or was it as dire?
Good on all points you made.
However, even with Harris leaving out the key points you made....

Chucky Vassell in one freaking possession 3 misses, zero assists, zero attempts to assist.

107 - 106 sequence
310 left
Spurs rebound Zion miss
1 Chucky Vassell immediate catch n shoot 27 feet, Misses w 20 on clock. Spurs rebound.
2. Trey Jones wide open brick w 13 on clock. Decent shot attempt as middle was clogged. Spurs rebound.
3 Chucky Vassell gets swing pass, catches, 4 dribbles to midrange brick w 10 on clock.
Spurs get fortunate out of bounds
4 Chucky gets inbounds pass 14 on clock. No dribble, guared so does turnaround chuck with 13 on clock.

[My Fault]

half your posts in the last half decade must be about me at this point buddy
You post like a teenage girl

[toki9]

Or was it as dire?
Good on all points you made.
However, even with Harris leaving out the key points you made....

Chucky Vassell in one freaking possession 3 misses, zero assists, zero attempts to assist.

107 - 106 sequence
310 left
Spurs rebound Zion miss
1 Chucky Vassell immediate catch n shoot 27 feet, Misses w 20 on clock. Spurs rebound.
2. Trey Jones wide open brick w 13 on clock. Decent shot attempt as middle was clogged. Spurs rebound.
3 Chucky Vassell gets swing pass, catches, 4 dribbles to midrange brick w 10 on clock.
Spurs get fortunate out of bounds
4 Chucky gets inbounds pass 14 on clock. No dribble, guared so does turnaround chuck with 13 on clock.

Yeah, that was an obviously bad sequences. I actually thought the sequence from 3:07 to 2:40 was worse, where the players threw passes around like hot potato, and completely missing Wemby in the middle. Like I said, they could have done a better job, but it wasn't a 7-minute blackhole sequence.

One of the things that Pop said long ago was that Kawhi really turned the corner when Kawhi understood that whenever he was told that they needed a bucket, it was the team that needed to get that bucket and not necessarily Kawhi. It'll probably take them a while to get there.

[MultiTroll]

Yeah, that was an obviously bad sequences. I actually thought the sequence from 3:07 to 2:40 was worse, where the players threw passes around like hot potato, and completely missing Wemby in the middle. Like I said, they could have done a better job, but it wasn't a 7-minute blackhole sequence.
We're talking about the same sequence. :lol
Mine starts with "3:10 left"

[toki9]

We're talking about the same sequence. :lol Then we agree. ;-) I wasn't sure what you meant by "107 - 106" sequence. But, yes, that was pretty egregiously bad. i thought you were talking about the sequence just under 1 minute where Tre repeatedly penetrated with trailing Victor.

[toki9]

We're talking about the same sequence. :lol
Mine starts with "3:10 left"

Sorry, I didn't know what you meant by 107 - 106 sequence / 310 left. I thought you were talking about the sequence around 1 minute mark--which wasn't what you described.

[MultiTroll]

^ Score 107-106

We agree that was a doozy of a minute or two.

[TekXX]

It's actually astounding that a member of the San Antonio sports media dares to critique a Spur or anyone involved with the Spurs. Kudos to Harris

[toki9]

^ Score 107-106

We agree that was a doozy of a minute or two.

Ah, OK.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Does he have poor reputation in San Antonio? I don't live there, so no idea.

Don thinks that he is a patrician and the rabble or plebes. Simmons is the approachable one. They all have more access than any mouth breather around here.

[toki9]

Don thinks that he is a patrician and the rabble or plebes. Simmons is the approachable one. They all have more access than any mouth breather around here.

Got it. Thanks for the context. Some of the nuances get lost to us out-of-towners here.

[TekXX]

Don thinks that he is a patrician and the rabble or plebes. Simmons is the approachable one. They all have more access than any mouth breather around here.

Simmons? Wasn't he fired?

[Tyronn Lue]

Vassell didn't get anywhere near a max contract, assuming every team has place for 2, he'd be more Catwoman than Robin, let alone Batman. If he has problems acknowledging that going forward, he can always be a nice piece of an outgoing package for someone who gets it.
Now convince Pop.

[Tyronn Lue]

This suggests you don't understand how a shot clock works. Vassell only needs to get the ball out of his hands in three seconds. It doesn't have to make it to the rim. A pass to the rim DOES have to be caught and out of the players hands before the clock expires. The gap in time that takes is massive.



You'd think by now people would realize this isn't true. Wemby has a wider catch radius than normal. He doesn't have as wide of one as people want to believe. He still needs good passes, ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have time to land, survey and shoot. It wouldn't surprise me at all if nearly half of the Spurs' turnovers every game come from Wemby or from his teammates trying to pass him the ball. Quite a few attempted lobs last night ended up deflected precisely because teams are adjusting to guard them. Given time and development, Wemby's ability to make contested catches and finish against pressure will increase along with his teammate's ability to hit that sweet spot where Victor is the only player who can catch it. But that takes real development. As I said, this has been such a minor issue that no one talked about it for a month, so the idea that it's a systemic issue doesn't hold water anymore.
eh never mind.

[z0sa]

For the dumbasses who think Wemby wasn't wide the fuck open, is this a bad pass/he's totally covered and has no chance at it, right? Definitely won't just go straight up and dunk it, correct?

https://i.ibb.co/JFM3y8H/accordingtosome.jpg

(PS this is the image I'm using from now on when the low IQ crowd says Wemby isn't open)

[stnick2261]

https://scontent.fmnl25-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424990236_701966872119487_8837224066994195955_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_eui2=AeEYlOIFboQst8t7h5md-_qM2pdvW_0hxpnal29b_SHGmQ_U3uCV7QRc-uBoE58fWWqWXDFvaRb7_8fRqC-WU3sc&_nc_ohc=FjsoJDMcREEAX93nW09&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl25-2.fna&oh=00_AfAW5haoisTtdmHXpUOjcDH1RRY1GguMQCJwOn9Ft1JH YQ&oe=65C317D2

I was firmly in the camp that Vassell and Wemby would be 2 of the next Big 3... but after this, I'm in the camp of trading Vassell for 2025-2026 draft picks.

[JeffDuncan]

…

That is what my perception of what Tre actually does when tossing lobs to Victor, he just tosses it right around the rim, he doesn't actually throw the pass to Victor. If you look at some of the highlights sometimes Victor isn't even on his second step before Tre has already lobbed the ball. …


That’s correct, about how it should be done. A lob should be thrown in relation to the basket. You take it for granted the receiver will be moving towards the basket, of course.

It’s possible to practice lob passes by yourself in an empty gym, strangely enough. Stand at various distances, and various angles, and throw an overhead two-handed pass so it bounces off the backboard beside the basket. Also the same kind of thing one handed, off the dribble, etc. (Just don’t use your regular shooting motion to practice lobs.)