Pistons trade proposed by either Rusillo or Simmons

[$pursDynasty]

Please forgive if this has been addressed on a previous thread but I caught a portion of a pod with I think Ryen Rusillo and Bill Simmons and Simmons suggested the Spurs offer up their three best draft picks to the Pistons for Cade. I found myself wondering a) would they take that and b) shouldn't the Spurs be willing to do that. Acquiring Cade and all it costs are unknowable draft assets seems like a no brainer.

[offset formation]

Overpay.

[tbdog]

I'll go with Bulls pick and Spurs 2025 pick unprotected and Tor pick. I'll then only give up Jones or branham. I think Spurs do it unless they see Cade as a non fit. I doubt they seem him as a negative. Pistons won't take it. They'll want 2024 unprotected. Dallas pick. And one of those ALT picks.

[Raven]

seems retarded

[TrainOfThought5]

Terrible decision.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Terrible decision.

For whom?

[slick'81]

:lmao

[Truckules]

The Pistons aren't trading Cade for anything less than an absurd haul. It's clear that the Pistons think he can be a franchise cornerstone so the price on him will be too high. Three draft picks plus player(s) for salary matching is way too high a price given the likelihood that at least 2 of those picks are in the lottery. I'm not even sure I'd do it for 2 picks.

However, Killian Hayes or Jaden Ivey could be available for a decent price. Hayes is an inefficient scorer, but he'd be the best PG on the current Spurs' roster. Ivey's having a down year, but it's clear that getting benched has affected him.

[jjspur]

Interesting take. Hayes has only half a year left on his contract and isn't regarded as all that valuable. Ivey is interesting but he has lost a bit of his confidence this year. A change of scenery is what both of those players really need. Maybe the spurs could offer a second or two for Hayes and that useless 1st from Charlotte and Wesley/Branham for Ivey. I know it isn't much to give Detroit, but they may be getting really desperate really soon and maybe the spurs could take advantage.

[objective]

I've long thought about blockbuster offers for either Cunningham or Trae Young but realistically those deals would never happen mid-season because of the likelihood that it would totally screw the draft position of the Spurs pick that would presumably have to be involved

Teams that add legit talent mid season lose slots in the draft. Hell, when the Spurs traded Derrick White to the Celtics I think their pick was 18 and finished at 25, and he wasn't even starting

Spurs 24 pick without any trades: 1-7 probably. With Cunningham or Young? 6-12. Why would those teams sabotage themselves to get a worse pick when they can do a deal in the summer?

Anyways, I would do the 3 firsts for Cunningham no problem. Hell I'd throw in one or both of those fake firsts that will probably convert to seconds from Chicago and Charlotte.

Downside of Cunningham is he's coming up for his extension and that seems like an opportunity for a unsatisfying deal with Wright's history.

[BatManu20]

Imagine getting traded from the worst team in the league to the 2nd worst team in the league :lol

[baseline bum]

Oh man, an overhyped guy who can't shoot the three and is an absolute traffic cone on defense is exactly what the Spurs need.

[Obstructed_View]

Seems odd that the savior of your franchise is on a team that is about to break the all time record in consecutive losses.

[BackHome]

Not no but HELL No to this trade! I am good getting a PG in this draft and even going after Immanuel Quickley from Knicks this off season to give us a Veteran

[exstatic]

Please forgive if this has been addressed on a previous thread but I caught a portion of a pod with I think Ryen Rusillo and Bill Simmons and Simmons suggested the Spurs offer up their three best draft picks to the Pistons for Cade. I found myself wondering a) would they take that and b) shouldn't the Spurs be willing to do that. Acquiring Cade and all it costs are unknowable draft assets seems like a no brainer.

Fuck
That
Noise

He isn’t worth one FRP, let alone three.

[SpursBills]

Let me put it this way: There is no way Cade on a max deal is worth more than Nikola Topic on a rookie deal. Cade's argument over Topic is that he's a better 3 point shooter. Topic is younger than Cade as a freshman at OK state, creates more with lower turnovers, finishes better at the rim, and is a similar size playing in a tougher league. I think the argument that Cade is more athletic is dead since we've seen time and time again that he can't get separation. Would you trade the spurs' best 3 1st rounders to move up to take Nikola Topic in this draft? Most people would say 'fuck no'. If the answer is no, why in the hell would anyone offer that deal for Cade?

[Dverde]

Pop ain’t trading for Monty’s problem children. If they can’t perform for him, they can’t play here with Pop.

[Tyronn Lue]

Only if Monty comes along.

[BacktoBasics]

Cade is interesting but not worth a potential top 3 pick.

[scott]

The more I think about it, the more I'm interested. Cade needs a change of scenery and the Spurs badly need change - any kind of change.

With that said, I'm only offering the CHI pick, the CHA pick, and the TOR pick plus one of our scrubs (which pretty much could be anyone except for Wemby).

I wait until the deadline when we are 4-50 or something approximating that record as to not ruin our draft positioning.

[JeffDuncan]

You guys still haven’t realized that podcast was a troll, for attention, and for laughs at anybody stupid enough to take it seriously.

[paperboy77]

I'd do it and even add another pick+player if they include Ivy. We completely suck right now and have zero future with these scrubs. Also, whatever players these picks wind up being may or not be any good. Cade and Jayden obviously need a change and so do we. DO IT SPURS!!!!!!

[DPG21920]

Yall are wild. Even if the Spurs got the number one pick this year, I would offer that + TOR pick (so let’s say that’s pick 1 + 10) and CHI pick for Cade easily.

[Ignazzz]

Agree. Better having Cade then lotto picks in so so draft. No brainer.

[The Truth #6]

I'd rather have Topic than Cade, I think, in a vacuum, so overpaying seems stupid, imo. Also we need to avoid gambling on potential busts. Too risky for me. You underpay for someone with question marks.

[Phenomanul]

I would trade Keldon Johnson and top 2-3 picks for Tyrese Haliburton.

[scott]

I would trade Keldon Johnson and top 2-3 picks for Tyrese Haliburton.

The only way the Pacers are having a conversation about Haliburton is if we are offering up Wemby. Ain't happening.

[DPG21920]

Spurs getting Cade while still having all their own future picks and all the ATL picks is beyond a gamble worth taking IMVHO

But makes no sense for DET to trade Cade unless he asks out.

[mo7888]

A couple trades I'd be interested in exploring would be offering KJ + Sochan to Brooklyn for Bridges.... and lowkey trade offering the Charlotte pick (which won't convey as a 1st) back to Charlotte for NSJ.

[scott]

Too bad real life isn't NBA2K. I've completely rebuilt our team and to start next season here is our roster:

Topic/Micic/Tre Jones
Ivey/Clarkson/
Ron Holland/Hayward
Jarace Walker/Jalen Smith/Cedi
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu

I picked up more picks in the process as well... lol

[mo7888]

Too bad real life isn't NBA2K. I've completely rebuilt our team and to start next season here is our roster:

Topic/Micic/Tre Jones
Ivey/Clarkson/
Ron Holland/Hayward
Jarace Walker/Jalen Smith/Cedi
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu

I picked up more picks in the process as well... lol

What did ypu give to get Walker? I've maintained he'd be a better fit next to Wemby than Sochan.

[poopbox]

If we can get cade for any collection of players not named wemby and devin and for picks that are not our unprotected 1st this year you do it. Anybody who watches Cade play can tell he is a great player stuck on trash team...like Wemby. Cade and Wemby would solidify our core going forward and Cade max would be a drop in the bucket after year 3 of the salary cap going up.

Our front offices only know how to get the Cedi Osmans of the world though so 0% chance their is any traction on this. And the Pistons could lose Cade for nothing.

[baseline bum]

The more I think about it, the more I'm interested. Cade needs a change of scenery and the Spurs badly need change - any kind of change.

With that said, I'm only offering the CHI pick, the CHA pick, and the TOR pick plus one of our scrubs (which pretty much could be anyone except for Wemby).

I wait until the deadline when we are 4-50 or something approximating that record as to not ruin our draft positioning.

Even the Chicago and Toronto pick is kind of expensive for him unless you can unload Zach Collins' money in the trade. Cunningham is absolute trash defensively, and he'd need to be a high end shooter to make for that IMO.

[scott]

What did ypu give to get Walker? I've maintained he'd be a better fit next to Wemby than Sochan.

I made a previous move for Jerami Grant and then sent him and a couple of firsts for Walker.

Trade engine is too easy to exploit in 2K though. I built that roster and also have the following future FRPs:

2025 Pistons
2025 Cavs
2025 Hawks
2025 Spurs
2025 Pacers (Top 3 Protected)
2026 Nets
2026 Spurs
2026 Celtics
2026 Swap with Hawks
2027 Cavs
2027 Spurs
2027 Hawks
2027 Jazz
2027 Mavericks
2028 Spurs
2028 Warrios
2028 Swap with Celtics

Honestly now that I take inventory... this isn't that fun.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Piston team owner, Gores met with Williams and GM Weaver yesterday and did an interview where he stressed that changes were coming. It was clear that Weaver is on the hot seat. Desperate GMs are where you can get the best deals from.

[baseline bum]

Too bad real life isn't NBA2K. I've completely rebuilt our team and to start next season here is our roster:

Topic/Micic/Tre Jones
Ivey/Clarkson/
Ron Holland/Hayward
Jarace Walker/Jalen Smith/Cedi
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu

I picked up more picks in the process as well... lol

My 2k team would murder that team tbh

Haliburton
Vassell
Anunoby
Durant
Wembanyama

[spurraider21]

Yall are wild. Even if the Spurs got the number one pick this year, I would offer that + TOR pick (so let’s say that’s pick 1 + 10) and CHI pick for Cade easily.
:lmao

[baseline bum]

Yall are wild. Even if the Spurs got the number one pick this year, I would offer that + TOR pick (so let’s say that’s pick 1 + 10) and CHI pick for Cade easily.

Why? He has been extremely disappointing since coming into the league and on top of his terrible defense and shooting he's also a China doll who will be expecting a big payday in two years.

[exstatic]

Why? He has been extremely disappointing since coming into the league and on top of his terrible defense and shooting he's also a China doll who will be expecting a big payday in two years.

Posters continue to think that guys in the league 3 years still have the same upside as they did when drafted, and they don’t.

[TD 21]

He's clearly got a sub All-NBA ceiling, but it's still too early for the Pistons to pull the plug for draft equity, when they've been in a re-build for a while, probably don't have a better prospect, are a virtual lock to get co best odds for the 1st pick anyway and there's no projected All-Stars in this draft.

Even when combined with some of the Spurs better long term draft equity, it'd be a difficult sell to their already tortured fanbase.

I also wouldn't do it from a Spurs perspective. No more investing significant assets in players who rate poor analytically.

If they're going to trade significant draft capital, save it for someone like Mitchell (if he'd be open to re-signing; his preference is to be in New York).



A couple trades I'd be interested in exploring would be offering KJ + Sochan to Brooklyn for Bridges.... and lowkey trade offering the Charlotte pick (which won't convey as a 1st) back to Charlotte for NSJ.

The Nets supposedly turned down 4 1sts for Bridges last season.

[mudd]

Honestly does anyone trust the current front office to draft real talent. Kawai was dumb luck. How can they miss on sangun, Halliburton, drafting losers like samanic, primo, letting go of Derick White etc. jmho

[TD 21]

^ Every team has plenty of misses; it's just the nature of the beast. But as has been discussed ad nauseam, Haliburton and Sengun were obvious at the time.

Their problem, seemingly now more than ever, is that they clearly believe their own hype when it comes to player development and are obsessed with their narrow minded definition of what a Spur "should" be.

They also don't value analytics and that's why we see things like them expending 4 1sts, 2 in the lottery, in '21-'22, on probable replacement players.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Honestly does anyone trust the current front office to draft real talent. Kawai was dumb luck. How can they miss on sangun, Halliburton, drafting losers like samanic, primo, letting go of Derick White etc. jmho

You can't say Kawhi was luck. It was a masterful stroke, but Wright wasn't the shot caller then. Letting White go was an effort to get Wemby which paid off. While I think Boston will end up with the best end of the trade we won't know until 2028 and maybe even later if the swap pans out. This team needs to be drafting at the top of the draft where the odds of picking a winner are much higher. They seem to have a knack for choosing diamonds in the rough at the end of the draft, but I submit it is really that the Spurs do an excellent job of developing talent. Players at the end of the draft have low expectations attached to them and when the Spurs develop them into above average players it seems like they drafted really well. In all likelihood a number of players that could have been drafted there could have developed similarly under the Spurs superior development system.

[LeBowen]

Honestly does anyone trust the current front office to draft real talent.

Not really.


Kawai was dumb luck.

Most definitely not.


How can they miss on sangun,

Yeah, that was idiotic.


Halliburton,

We had both Murray and White on the roster, Vassell made more sense.


drafting losers like samanic,

Everyone picked after him is trash, you could argue that Keldon is the best player and they got him with #29 pick.

The only big fuckup, imo, is not drafting Sengun.
Duren or Williams instead of Sochan would've been better. And Kessler instead of Branham.

But we got Wemby, so all of that is whataboutism and irrelevant.

What we do need is to get rid of all these awful defenders.

[mo7888]

He's clearly got a sub All-NBA ceiling, but it's still too early for the Pistons to pull the plug for draft equity, when they've been in a re-build for a while, probably don't have a better prospect, are a virtual lock to get co best odds for the 1st pick anyway and there's no projected All-Stars in this draft.

Even when combined with some of the Spurs better long term draft equity, it'd be a difficult sell to their already tortured fanbase.

I also wouldn't do it from a Spurs perspective. No more investing significant assets in players who rate poor analytically.

If they're going to trade significant draft capital, save it for someone like Mitchell (if he'd be open to re-signing; his preference is to be in New York).




The Nets supposedly turned down 4 1sts for Bridges last season.

That's why i want to explore it. Things change and they might have a different set of values regarding their team now.

[TD 21]

That's why i want to explore it. Things change and they might have a different set of values regarding their team now.

I believe they want to bring in another star (Mitchell?), not tear it down.

Either way, it'd take a hell of a lot more than Johnson and Sochan.

[SouthernFryd]

Welcome to Spurs Basketball....where it's all about trades.

Best part of that? You don't have to buy a ticket...

[wildbill2u]

Imagine getting traded from the worst team in the league to the 2nd worst team in the league :lol

Onward and upward.

[mo7888]

I believe they want to bring in another star (Mitchell?), not tear it down.

Either way, it'd take a hell of a lot more than Johnson and Sochan.

It would cost more than those two for sure..

[TDMVPDPOY]

stupid trade for what the spurms are trying to achieve now, stay on the road of the tankathon....

spurms got the tank commander and tank general brett brown (4 years in a row tanking with the 76s) trust the process....and see them all leave in the future just like the rookies on that 76s team

[CGD]

I do it, but not at that price. I think fair is either a 1) quality player + quality FRP, or 2) two quality FRPs. I’d throw in the fake CHA FRP to help DET save face, which will be the biggest barrier honestly.

The other thing I’d like about this deal is that it breaks the “mystique” of Cade being the first selection. The Spurs would then be justified in taking his next deal to restricted free agency which should yield a better deal, as opposed to just giving him a max extension.

[MarioSpeedwagon]

Yall are wild. Even if the Spurs got the number one pick this year, I would offer that + TOR pick (so let’s say that’s pick 1 + 10) and CHI pick for Cade easily.

I would too, this is a legendarily bad draft

[slick'81]

So there's a chance the cha,chi and tor picks all dont convey?? Damn

[exstatic]

So there's a chance the cha,chi and tor picks all dont convey?? Damn

Any pick that’s not completely unprotected has a chance to not convey as a FRP, falling back as one or two SRPs, whatever the trade conditions were. That being said, two of those picks haven’t even had a chance to convey yet, as they are still in the future.

The Charlotte pick has the least chance to convey. It already had one draft chance expire before we got it as a throw in in the Dejounte trade. It didn’t convey last year, and barring a dramatic turnaround, won’t in 2024. We get another shot in 2025, but even if it conveys, the highest it can be is #15, since it’s lottery protected. Like I said, a throw in to the Dejounte trade, along with the unprotected picks and swap.

The Toronto pick has the highest chance to convey, being 1-6 protected the next 3 drafts. Other than the Durant trade, this was the only FRP to change hands at the deadline last year. It was a great return on what was at the time a rental of Jakob Poeltl.

The Chicago pick has decreasing protections over 3 drafts, 2025 1-10,2026 1-8, 2027 1-8. This pick was obtained from the S&T of unrestricted FA DeMar Derozan.


The summary: of our protected FRPs, the Charlotte pick is the least likely to convey, but also the least valuable, since if it conveys, it will fall in the range of 15-30. The Toronto pick is the best and most likely to convey, and was obtained for a 1/3 season rental of Poeltl. The Chicago pick is the middle of the pack, better and more likely to convey than the Charlotte pick, but not quite as good as the Toronto pick. It was obtained by trading an unrestricted FA who could have walked for nothing.

[mo7888]

Any pick that’s not completely unprotected has a chance to not convey as a FRP, falling back as one or two SRPs, whatever the trade conditions were. That being said, two of those picks haven’t even had a chance to convey yet, as they are still in the future.

The Charlotte pick has the least chance to convey. It already had one draft chance expire before we got it as a throw in in the Dejounte trade. It didn’t convey last year, and barring a dramatic turnaround, won’t in 2024. We get another shot in 2025, but even if it conveys, the highest it can be is #15, since it’s lottery protected. Like I said, a throw in to the Dejounte trade, along with the unprotected picks and swap.

The Toronto pick has the highest chance to convey, being 1-6 protected the next 3 drafts. Other than the Durant trade, this was the only FRP to change hands at the deadline last year. It was a great return on what was at the time a rental of Jakob Poeltl.

The Chicago pick has decreasing protections over 3 drafts, 2025 1-10,2026 1-8, 2027 1-8. This pick was obtained from the S&T of unrestricted FA DeMar Derozan.


The summary: of our protected FRPs, the Charlotte pick is the least likely to convey, but also the least valuable, since if it conveys, it will fall in the range of 15-30. The Toronto pick is the best and most likely to convey, and was obtained for a 1/3 season rental of Poeltl. The Chicago pick is the middle of the pack, better and more likely to convey than the Charlotte pick, but not quite as good as the Toronto pick. It was obtained by trading an unrestricted FA who could have walked for nothing.

This is an excellent summation of where we stand with those picks. Anyone who's stressed over those picks should take a little time and read this.

[spurs10]

I haven't watched any Piston games because we've had our own losing streak to manage. I knew Cunningham was the #1 pick in '21, but then that's about the last I heard of him. Find it interesting how much some are willing to give up for him, but I'm sure he would be a big help. Doubt Detroit is in the market to trade their best prospect, but you never know.

[scott]

Any pick that’s not completely unprotected has a chance to not convey as a FRP, falling back as one or two SRPs, whatever the trade conditions were. That being said, two of those picks haven’t even had a chance to convey yet, as they are still in the future.

The Charlotte pick has the least chance to convey. It already had one draft chance expire before we got it as a throw in in the Dejounte trade. It didn’t convey last year, and barring a dramatic turnaround, won’t in 2024. We get another shot in 2025, but even if it conveys, the highest it can be is #15, since it’s lottery protected. Like I said, a throw in to the Dejounte trade, along with the unprotected picks and swap.

The Toronto pick has the highest chance to convey, being 1-6 protected the next 3 drafts. Other than the Durant trade, this was the only FRP to change hands at the deadline last year. It was a great return on what was at the time a rental of Jakob Poeltl.

The Chicago pick has decreasing protections over 3 drafts, 2025 1-10,2026 1-8, 2027 1-8. This pick was obtained from the S&T of unrestricted FA DeMar Derozan.


The summary: of our protected FRPs, the Charlotte pick is the least likely to convey, but also the least valuable, since if it conveys, it will fall in the range of 15-30. The Toronto pick is the best and most likely to convey, and was obtained for a 1/3 season rental of Poeltl. The Chicago pick is the middle of the pack, better and more likely to convey than the Charlotte pick, but not quite as good as the Toronto pick. It was obtained by trading an unrestricted FA who could have walked for nothing.

Good summary, the only other note I'd add re: the Toronto pick is that 1-6 is a really nice sweetspot for protections (as the receiving team). Even if Toronto goes hard tank, they can only truly protect their pick by finishing with the worst or next-to-worst record. This season, that looks out of reach. Here are the odds that the pick will convey based on the final TOR record:

3rd Worst: 7%
4th Worst: 18.9%
5th Worst: 36.0%
6th Worst: 54.2%
7th Worst: 68.0%
8th Worst: 73.8%
9th Worst: 79.8%
10th Worst: 89.1%
11th Worst: 90.6%
12th Worst: 93.9%
13th Worst: 94.3%
14th Worst: 97.6%

Even if it doesn't convey this year, I'm still not *too* worried about the TOR pick until there are signs they are going to go full hard tank.