spurs trade rumors

[gambit1990]

a thread for all things in regards to spurs trade rumors, which i’ve seen none of.

the trade deadline is basically month away (february 8th).

[gambit1990]

things seem eerily sleepy so something has to be in the works, right?

[spursparker9]

Probably no....Since this is a loss/tank season. Pop would probably want to might as well use the rest of the season to observe fully and conclude the potential and suitability of all the current players' fit with Wemby.

[exstatic]

They’ll trade one or more of Cedi, Doug, and Devonte. They’ll take back longer contracts, cash, and picks.

[gambit1990]

i think they’ll make at least one move to make things less rocky / make wemby happier.

[Dex]

They’ll trade one or more of Cedi, Doug, and Devonte. They’ll take back longer contracts, cash, and picks.

This guy gets it.

[CorrectCrusader]

I doubt we see any veteran talent added. Too deep in the gutter this season. You'll see real moves made next year when we have 2 high talent rookies to teach.
The only thing I would see is getting picks in exchange for us taking bad contracts.

[exstatic]

i think they’ll make at least one move to make things less rocky / make wemby happier.

That’s what YOU want,but it won’t happen until this summer.

[onechance87]

They’ll trade one or more of Cedi, Doug, and Devonte. They’ll take back longer contracts, cash, and picks.

absolutely not...We cant go thru another year of this shit....We draft a top 5 player in this year draft...Trade collins or
keldon this summer make sum room for two max players and we start try contending immediately...We cant waste time
with wemby

[Leetonidas]

:pop: We like what we have :pop:

[spurraider21]

they'll try to sell cedi/mcdermott/graham as expiring deals, though cedi is the only one who has shown any level of play that a contending team may want at the end of their bench. but given his modest salary, and the spurs inability to simply absorb salary, its unclear what "bad" contract a team will have around 7 mil per year

im not expecting much at all

[scott]

I don't foresee the Spurs wanting to move Cedi, and I don't foresee any team wanting Doug or Graham. Small chance a team will want to add Doug, but I'm not counting on it. Keldon is the most likely to be moved, but I doubt it.

[spurraider21]

I don't foresee the Spurs wanting to move Cedi, and I don't foresee any team wanting Doug or Graham. Small chance a team will want to add Doug, but I'm not counting on it. Keldon is the most likely to be moved, but I doubt it.
the thing is, there's just no urgency to move keldon

right now champagnie is starting over him, but its not because champagnie is currently a better player than keldon. KJ is somebody who can be improved upon, but i wouldnt push him out until we have that piece. he's under contract thru the 26-27 season and is on a favorable deal to us

[exstatic]

absolutely not...We cant go thru another year of this shit....We draft a top 5 player in this year draft...Trade collins or
keldon this summer make sum room for two max players and we start try contending immediately...We cant waste time
with wemby

I’m talking about February, not next summer. All of that money rolls off in July, except $2.5M of Devonte.

Trading players like Keldon or Collins into someone else’s cap room to free some for ourselves costs picks, plus almost no one HAS any cap room available.

[exstatic]

I don't foresee the Spurs wanting to move Cedi, and I don't foresee any team wanting Doug or Graham. Small chance a team will want to add Doug, but I'm not counting on it. Keldon is the most likely to be moved, but I doubt it.

Graham is about his contract. If a team picks up his contract in February, and cuts him before is guarantee date,ntheysave $10M in cap,or more likely, apron space.

[scott]

the thing is, there's just no urgency to move keldon

right now champagnie is starting over him, but its not because champagnie is currently a better player than keldon. KJ is somebody who can be improved upon, but i wouldnt push him out until we have that piece. he's under contract thru the 26-27 season and is on a favorable deal to us

I agree with that, and there is unlikely to be any kind of deal available to direct improve the team by moving Keldon, which is why I doubt he'll be moved. The only thing I could foresee is if you could move him with the idea of obtaining assets that could then be combined with your other existing assets to improve upon his role on the team.

With that said, Keldon is fairly easily replacable. It's not like he is highly efficient, ranking 143 out of 332 players in PER this season, and below average at only 14.4. Wemby and Vassell are our only regular players above the 15.0 cut line (Wemby at 19.1 and currently ranking #50 in the league, and Devin at 15.3. Bassey was actually second best on the team at 17.5).

[spurraider21]

I agree with that, and there is unlikely to be any kind of deal available to direct improve the team by moving Keldon, which is why I doubt he'll be moved. The only thing I could foresee is if you could move him with the idea of obtaining assets that could then be combined with your other existing assets to improve upon his role on the team.

With that said, Keldon is fairly easily replacable. It's not like he is highly efficient, ranking 143 out of 332 players in PER this season, and below average at only 14.4. Wemby and Vassell are our only regular players above the 15.0 cut line (Wemby at 19.1 and currently ranking #50 in the league, and Devin at 15.3. Bassey was actually second best on the team at 17.5).
PER is a pretty dated measure tbh.

i agree that keldon is not a remarkable player but he is nonetheless productive. i dont think we have any guys on the roster who could fill his scoring void with anything resembling even mediocre efficiency if they were thrust into such role

[scott]

PER is a pretty dated measure tbh.

i agree that keldon is not a remarkable player but he is nonetheless productive. i dont think we have any guys on the roster who could fill his scoring void with anything resembling even mediocre efficiency if they were thrust into such role

What measure do you like better than PER for measuring efficiency?

I really like Keldon as a Spur, I just don't think he's that great of a basketball player. I honestly think Champ or Bran could come close (say, 80-85%) to his production if given the opportunity (note, I'm not actually suggesting we do this, because it would also be losing basketball).

[CorrectCrusader]

If you're trading Keldon you better be getting offense in return, because I believe he is the only player on this team with a positive net rating on offense.

[scott]

If you're trading Keldon you better be getting offense in return, because I believe he is the only player on this team with a positive net rating on offense.

Sorry, I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain?

Net Rating = Offensive Rating - Defensive Rating. What is a "positive net rating on offense"?

Keldon does have the second highest OBPM on the team, but it's still a -0.2 (Devin #1 at 0.7)

[spurraider21]

What measure do you like better than PER for measuring efficiency?

I really like Keldon as a Spur, I just don't think he's that great of a basketball player. I honestly think Champ or Bran could come close (say, 80-85%) to his production if given the opportunity (note, I'm not actually suggesting we do this, because it would also be losing basketball).
what does a players rebounds/steals/blocks have to do with efficiency? thats all factored into PER

can look at TS%, turnover%, and then the aggregating stats like O-RPM, O-BPM

[CorrectCrusader]

Sorry, I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain?

Net Rating = Offensive Rating - Defensive Rating. What is a "positive net rating on offense"?

Keldon does have the second highest OBPM on the team, but it's still a -0.2 (Devin #1 at 0.7)

Sorry I'm just retarded. I forgot what stat it was. It's posted somewhere on my "the biggest problem" thread

[scott]

what does a players rebounds/steals/blocks have to do with efficiency? thats all factored into PER

can look at TS%, turnover%, and then the aggregating stats like O-RPM, O-BPM

Keldon also middle of the pack in TS% (and out performed by Champ). I like PER because it takes into account the players efficiency at generating other stats that have a positive impact, it's not just scoring efficiency. But if we are just talking scoring production, yeah I get it.

[CGD]

What measure do you like better than PER for measuring efficiency?

I really like Keldon as a Spur, I just don't think he's that great of a basketball player. I honestly think Champ or Bran could come close (say, 80-85%) to his production if given the opportunity (note, I'm not actually suggesting we do this, because it would also be losing basketball).

I’ve actually really liked Keldon coming off the bench recently, and have long thought his best position long term is 6th man/supersub on a good team. If he’s willing to accept that role on this team, im happy to keep him long term.

[scott]

I’ve actually really liked Keldon coming off the bench recently, and have long thought his best position long term is 6th man/supersub on a good team. If he’s willing to accept that role on this team, im happy to keep him long term.

I could actually get on board with that, and his contract is right-sized for that role.

[gambit1990]

That’s what YOU want,but it won’t happen until this summer.
no, i want a lot actually. i just posted what i think will happen.

[tbdog]

A trade could be made for Lavine by just giving up expiring and a lonely asset, like a 2025 1st top 3 protected or something. Lavine has no trade value and Bulls are playing better without him. They kinda looking into a rebuild too. I just think there can be something there if Spurs want Lavine. I don't think they will even bother. There is no need for a rush. But at the same time, rebuilding Lavine value could be something to look into.

[scott]

I really like Lavine and think he'd be a great early career sidekick to Wemby... unfortunately dude cannot stay healthy.

But let's say you could get him for the Bulls FRP back, plus the CHA pick and Branham. Then you sign Quickly in the offseason. Now you have a rotation that looks like:

Quickly/Draft Pick
Lavine/Vassell
Draft Pick/Johsnon
Sochan/???
Wemby/Collins

That looks like a major improvement to me.

[CorrectCrusader]

Lavine is a black hole and not a type of player you want on your team long term, especially if you have to give up assets for them

[gambit1990]

Lavine is a black hole and not a type of player you want on your team long term, especially if you have to give up assets for them
i agree with this. might as well trade for demar, it'd even cost less to get him.

not that i'd want him either.

[spurraider21]

Zero interest in Lavine lol

[Fireball]

No Lavine please ...

[Biggems]

throw Lavine in a ravine without a life ring, turn and walk away. He can stay in the Windy City for all I care.

I really like Keldon off the bench. I think Jeremy could be good off the bench as well.

Since the season is already trashed, I would love to see a handful of games where we start Wemby, Mamu, Sochan, Vassell, and Jones. I think Mamu and Jones would be able to facilitate better to Wemby and really set him up for some easy buckets.

As for trades, I do not want to trade Cedi. I really like him and his game. I am quite okay with shipping out Dougie and Graham.

As for Keldon, I am not sure what he would fetch on the open market, or who would have the cap space to match. It would probably be better just to keep him as our 6th man.

[Maddog]

A trade could be made for Lavine by just giving up expiring and a lonely asset, like a 2025 1st top 3 protected or something. Lavine has no trade value and Bulls are playing better without him. They kinda looking into a rebuild too. I just think there can be something there if Spurs want Lavine. I don't think they will even bother. There is no need for a rush. But at the same time, rebuilding Lavine value could be something to look into.


Lavine is a black hole and not a type of player you want on your team long term, especially if you have to give up assets for them

Nope
Spurs will not even inquire about him.

[exstatic]

A trade could be made for Lavine by just giving up expiring and a lonely asset, like a 2025 1st top 3 protected or something. Lavine has no trade value and Bulls are playing better without him. They kinda looking into a rebuild too. I just think there can be something there if Spurs want Lavine. I don't think they will even bother. There is no need for a rush. But at the same time, rebuilding Lavine value could be something to look into.

He’s making $40M on a contract that only increases, and his team is currently playing better without him. Where do I sign?

[tbdog]

He’s making $40M on a contract that only increases, and his team is currently playing better without him. Where do I sign?

It's if you can gets his value up. He'll raise the teams floor. It's just something to consider and I'm doubtful Bulls would let him go for they price anyway as they'll consider the same thing, increasing his value.

[dbestpro]

A young small forward for Ivey. Sochan or Johnson. They need a veteran to show them how to play defense. Maybe Patrick Beverly.

[mo7888]

I’ve actually really liked Keldon coming off the bench recently, and have long thought his best position long term is 6th man/supersub on a good team. If he’s willing to accept that role on this team, im happy to keep him long term.

That makes alot of sense and 6th man is his future on pretty much any team in this league.

I also don't expect any trades at the deadline. I doubt we want to take any real salary back into next season. We might do a little something around the edges if a team wants Doug's shooting, for example, and could send an expiring and a 2nd, but not much more than that.

Now this summer, i expect real movement...

[mo7888]

A young small forward for Ivey. Sochan or Johnson. They need a veteran to show them how to play defense. Maybe Patrick Beverly.

If i could unload Sochan for someone else's underperforming sophomore, I do that in a heartbeat. I'm not sure he's tradeable and i wouldn't pay to dump him, but i sure would like to move away from him.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If you're trading Keldon you better be getting offense in return, because I believe he is the only player on this team with a positive net rating on offense.

Well, his defense is beyond atrocious

[jjspur]

I'd trade McNuggets for a second rounder, but I don't think teams has any cap space available. I suppose we could take back a bad contract, but that's not an ideal deal.

[spurraider21]

I'd trade McNuggets for a second rounder, but I don't think teams has any cap space available. I suppose we could take back a bad contract, but that's not an ideal deal.
Nobody is giving up cap space for McNuggets. A team with a longer, worse contract could value him as an expiring player tho

with that said, the days of getting good picks just for cap relief largely seem to be gone

we got 2s to take cedi and Payne. We did get a 1st swap all the way in 2030 for bullock but we also sent in several SRPs there as well

[scott]

I actually expect Cedi and Doug to be resigned to modest deals in the summer, and I kind of welcome that.

[mo7888]

I'd trade McNuggets for a second rounder, but I don't think teams has any cap space available. I suppose we could take back a bad contract, but that's not an ideal deal.

We could potentially take back a lesser player on an expiring to preserve space this summer

[CorrectCrusader]

I actually expect Cedi and Doug to be resigned to modest deals in the summer, and I kind of welcome that.

Needed veteran shooting. If we ship them off we get significantly worse

[Big Empty]

They’re checking to see if we’re a better team without Keldon. If we are or the same he’s tradable

[baseline bum]

I really like Lavine and think he'd be a great early career sidekick to Wemby... unfortunately dude cannot stay healthy.

But let's say you could get him for the Bulls FRP back, plus the CHA pick and Branham. Then you sign Quickly in the offseason. Now you have a rotation that looks like:

Quickly/Draft Pick
Lavine/Vassell
Draft Pick/Johsnon
Sochan/???
Wemby/Collins

That looks like a major improvement to me.

Well fuck :pctoss

[gambit1990]

1741162719816867939

[gambit1990]

keldon + mcdermott + TOR's 2024 1st round pick + LAL's 2024 2nd round pick for siakam :hungry:

[mo7888]

keldon + mcdermott + TOR's 2024 1st round pick + LAL's 2024 2nd round pick for siakam :hungry:

I'm not a huge siakam fan, but I'm trying to include Sochan instead of keldon or the Toronto pick if possible.

[scott]

Didn't Siakam flat out say he won't resign with anyone who trades for him? TOR will basically just be looking for rental-compensation if that is the case.

[TD 21]

Didn't Siakam flat out say he won't resign with anyone who trades for him? TOR will basically just be looking for rental-compensation if that is the case.

That was primarily because he was still supermax eligible this season if he made All-NBA with the Craptors.

Now that that ship has sailed, I would imagine whichever of the Hawks, Pacers, Kings, etc. trades for him will do so with the understanding that they have a strong chance to re-sign him.

Teams don't go into significant trades blind.

[CGD]

That makes alot of sense and 6th man is his future on pretty much any team in this league.

I also don't expect any trades at the deadline. I doubt we want to take any real salary back into next season. We might do a little something around the edges if a team wants Doug's shooting, for example, and could send an expiring and a 2nd, but not much more than that.

Now this summer, i expect real movement...

Agree with this, but the only thing about the summer is the “for who” question. I’m not immediately seeing who could be on the move yet or if there are any free agents that move the needle. That said, there always seems to be a stories about an unhappy player pop up out of seemingly nowhere and a regular clip, lol.

[mo7888]

Agree with this, but the only thing about the summer is the “for who” question. I’m not immediately seeing who could be on the move yet or if there are any free agents that move the needle. That said, there always seems to be a stories about an unhappy player pop up out of seemingly nowhere and a regular clip, lol.

That's my feeling too. I don't really see the available FA's that would fit here. Maybe a team somewhere will decide tobrebuild and move some guys for young players/picks...

[rascal]

Third word in the title says it all. Rumors, just rumors

[gambit1990]

i’d rather get one or two significant players now & end up with a worse draft pick in lieu of just getting a top pick in the draft.

siakam & wemby defense is such a great starting point for establishing this team’s identîty.

and then like i’ve said before, sign cp3 when he agrees to a buyout this season.

[gambit1990]

spurs already have wemby, don’t slow build.

players’ attîtudes on trades are WAY different than before. and the draft, obviously, won’t treat the spurs as well as it did since everyone has upped their scouting game.

this is the time to be aggressive. keeping wemby happy by winning more games later this season will go a long way.

[Tyronn Lue]

spurs already have wemby, don’t slow build.

players’ attîtudes on trades are WAY different than before. and the draft, obviously, won’t treat the spurs as well as it did since everyone has upped their scouting game.

this is the time to be aggressive. keeping wemby happy by winning more games later this season will go a long way.
If the Spurs were in a larger market, they'd likely go for a turn key roster but seeing how they are not, they have to grow organically. Outside of a forced trade, most 2nd tier to upper tier players won't intentionally come to San Antonio if they have other options.

[MannyIsGod]

Very few spurs have value. What are we trading for? I don't expect any trades of note this year.

[MannyIsGod]

I actually expect Cedi and Doug to be resigned to modest deals in the summer, and I kind of welcome that.

Would make zero sense to trade.them as neither is bringing in a frp. Don't care if we keep them in a vacuum but they definitely aren't getting traded

[Degoat]

Do we think there’s a trade out there that could improve us in the short term without hurting us long term? Lol I refuse to believe the spurs should just accept another defeated season when they have a talent like Wemby. I’m not saying do something stupid but if a guy comes available that they’ve liked for a long time go get him

[RC_Drunkford]

The only rumor I read was the Spurs would be interested in Bol Bol. I’d be down to see Wemby and Bol Bol play together. That would be fun

[Dejounte]

Do we think there’s a trade out there that could improve us in the short term without hurting us long term? Lol I refuse to believe the spurs should just accept another defeated season when they have a talent like Wemby. I’m not saying do something stupid but if a guy comes available that they’ve liked for a long time go get him

If this season has proven anything, it’s that Wemby is ready right now to win. None of that timeline bullshit is applicable here. Wemby is a piece that can become top 10 next season. Makes no sense to not take advantage of that. If there’s a nice 30 year old player that’s available, get him.

[onechance87]

i personally would of would of went all out for quickley...think hes gonna be a star

[Frenchfred]

If this season has proven anything, it’s that Wemby is ready right now to win. None of that timeline bullshit is applicable here. Wemby is a piece that can become top 10 next season. Makes no sense to not take advantage of that. If there’s a nice 30 year old player that’s available, get him.

I feel that Wemby is willing to sacrifice this season to have a nice pick next year but I doubt that he wants another year of that shit for 2024-2025. Cooper Flag would be nice but the Spurs would have to be lucky again and statistically it is unlikely.

[RC_Drunkford]

According to San Antonio media the Spurs have a 5-year plan. They should speed that up tbh.

[exstatic]

I feel that Wemby is willing to sacrifice this season to have a nice pick next year but I doubt that he wants another year of that shit for 2024-2025. Cooper Flag would be nice but the Spurs would have to be lucky again and statistically it is unlikely.

It’s mostly the picks, ours and Toronto’s, but it’s also about getting him physically ready for a long NBA career. New York, with a fan boi owner who is as knowledgeable as most idiots here, didn’t do that, and Porzingas, the closest physical comp to Wemby, has been plagued with injuries, both major and minor tthroughout his career. Let’s not have that happen.

[Bruno]

Trade deadline should be quiet for Spurs. They aren't looking to get better for the rest of the season and they don't have a player with significant value on the trading block.

The key factor of this trade deadline is whether or not Spurs want to keep cap space for this summer.

[gambit1990]

Very few spurs have value.

they don't have a player with significant value on the trading block.
you mortgage the future via trading picks. this is literally the perfect time to.

[gambit1990]

spurs aren’t winning a championship thru the draft & free agency bc wemby isn’t gonna stick around 4+ years after not getting close.

you go all in and if that fails then you get a ransom for wemby.

start making this team into a contender now so they can win one in year three or four.

[TD 21]

Not a rumor, but if they don't draft Topic, I'd pursue Ivey with a Johnson, Branham, Hornets 1st offer.

To fix this back court, they not only need to find a potential lead guard, but split Branham and Jones. Obviously neither is starting material and they're a poor fit together.

[ambchang]

spurs aren’t winning a championship thru the draft & free agency bc wemby isn’t gonna stick around 4+ years after not getting close.

you go all in and if that fails then you get a ransom for wemby.

start making this team into a contender now so they can win one in year three or four.

There really aren’t too many players who won before year 4.

Magic did because he was drafted by a lakers team that was loaded to begin with.
Bird did because the Celtics fleeced the warriors by trading for mchale and parish who were also young player.


Both these players started their career over 40 years ago.

The other one is duncan, who did because he was drafted to a loaded spurs team hurt by injuries the year before.

The last one I can think of is wade, who the heat traded for shaq, who was pushed out by Kobe. There aren’t anyone if that caliber available now (think Giannis Luka embiid types).

Likely missed a few but it is a very short list, who were in way different situations than wemby.

[spurraider21]

Not a rumor, but if they don't draft Topic, I'd pursue Ivey with a Johnson, Branham, Hornets 1st offer.

To fix this back court, they not only need to find a potential lead guard, but split Branham and Jones. Obviously neither is starting material and they're a poor fit together.
im struggling to see where branham could be a fit unless he really changes his game.

cant attack the rim with explosion. not a good/volume shooter. not a good defender. not much of a ballhandler. not a playmaker/passer. a pullup midrange game and occasionally savvy finish under the rim isnt enough to be a guard.

[KobesAchilles]

If this season has proven anything, it’s that Wemby is ready right now to win. None of that timeline bullshit is applicable here. Wemby is a piece that can become top 10 next season. Makes no sense to not take advantage of that. If there’s a nice 30 year old player that’s available, get him.
Finally came around to my side. People here underestimated Wemby. He needs a squad around him stat bc he is ready to compete. Dude is a monster defensively and unguardable offensively if used correctly. Hell even this season with us basically running no sets for him he is still a 20/10/3/3 player. Imagine once he rightfully becomes the centerpiece

Next year is playoffs or bust

[TD 21]

im struggling to see where branham could be a fit unless he really changes his game.

cant attack the rim with explosion. not a good/volume shooter. not a good defender. not much of a ballhandler. not a playmaker/passer. a pullup midrange game and occasionally savvy finish under the rim isnt enough to be a guard.

His only path to being a legit rotation player and offsetting his terrible defense and lack of primary play making is to become an efficient scorer.

Since he lacks the explosiveness/handle/strength to be a rim pressure/foul magnet type, he needs to derive said efficiency from complimenting his mid-range pull-up game with plus (volume and versatility) 3-point shooting.

Still, he'd be better served with a 3 and D secondary creator to pair with him in the back court.

[Chinook]

The Spurs look like they might have three or four top-10 picks incoming with their own and Toronto's this year and ATL's next year. Securing those picks should be the main restriction in any trade. To me, that means the Spurs have to remain worse than Toronto this year and that they can't make the Hawks better or give them back their pick. They don't have to keep all three guys they drat with those picks, but they do need to make sure they have those picks in hand to trade. That's way more important than trying to stop the "bleeding" this year by trading for Quickley or Murray or whomever else. I'm not worried about them acquiring someone like Ivey, Fultz or Davion Mitchell at this point. That shouldn't affect any of those picks. If they wanna do something like that or be the team that lets Rubio rehab, it's whatever.

I don't think Johnson and Vassell have the low value folks are assigning to them. Devin might be too awkward to trade, so I don't him being dealt, but I could see a team offering something of value for Keldon. SpursTalk is meming right now, but the dude is having a good year, and it should be clear from last game that he's not the cause of the awful defense. Giving his contract, I could see a rising team wanting to bring him on as their long-term sixth-man solution. I think it'd be a mistake for the Spurs to jump ship on him outside of a really good package, though. I think he's being hurt by the lineup confusion as well. Until Pop stops fucking around and plays the Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Wembanyama lineup that always made the most sense if Vic showed he could handle the five, most of the main guys are going to look pretty bad. As I've said before, I wish Pop would actually put the team's best foot forward so we could what changes the team actually needs to make versus what they can hope will fix itself with experience.

Jones, Graham, Wesley
Vassell, Champ, Branham
Johnson, McDermott, Cissoko
Sochan, Osman, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

That should just be the rotation for 5-10 games, obviously with the exception of Collins and Bassey being hurt and the team having to play the two-ways and Mamu there. Let that rotation cook until the deadline, sell off the vets and give the young players the rest of the year to show if they should be in next year's rotation. Then basically go into next summer with an open mind when it comes to moving every player besides Wemby.

[TD 21]

None of those guys would stop the "bleeding". The only one I'd want is Ivey and it's because he'd have a chance to be a long term fit, not because he's good enough currently to change much. As I said, I also believe post draft would be a more realistic timeline anyway.

The rest is talking out of both sides of your mouth, saying they need to stay as bad as possible (as if any iteration of this team risks passing the Craptors), while following it up by saying the genius needs to play the logical rotation to maximize them.

[spurraider21]

None of those guys would stop the "bleeding". The only one I'd want is Ivey and it's because he'd have a chance to be a long term fit, not because he's good enough currently to change much. As I said, I also believe post draft would be a more realistic timeline anyway.

The rest is talking out of both sides of your mouth, saying they need to stay as bad as possible (as if any iteration of this team risks passing the Craptors), while following it up by saying the genius needs to play the logical rotation to maximize them.
i dont think he's talking out of both sides tbh, and i think the bolded is an assumption he also makes

chinook wants us to stay worse than the raptors to maximize the chance of their pick conveying. thats why he was opposed to something like a Quickly trade which theoretically could improve the team enough to jeapordize that, though he is not opposed to trading for Ivey (a move which he doesnt believe would move the needle much this year to threaten that), and he is especially not opposed to optimizing our current lineup, because

1) like you said, it doesnt jeopardize the toronto thing
2) it better helps evaluate what limited pieces we do currently have

[scott]

^ As I noted in this thread (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302701) the Starting 5 that Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) (and many of us) is calling for far and away our best lineup statistically, though they've only logged 27 minutes together this season, putting up a 25.9 Net Rating. The same lineup, but subbing out Wemby for Collins has a 0.0 Net Rating, which is pretty good for this team, so you can see that the team just seems to "work better" with that basic construction.

The new starting lineup of Bran-Dev-Champ-Soch-Wemby wasn't bad in the first 4 games together (+18.1 NetRtg), but the 15 minutes they played together against Boston really did a number on that, and now they have a NetRtg of -13.1 :lol

To Chinook's point about Keldon's value - he makes a ton of sense off the bench so being optimistic I am hoping this lineup change is attempt to develop him in that 6th man role for us into the future. If that is the case, you might argue that the best alternate starting 5 would be Jones-Dev-Champ-Soch-Wemby, but that combo has logged zero minutes this season. You'd think perhaps Pop is maybe trying to condition Jones for that bench role into the future as well, except Jones is already accustomed to it and is on a short-term deal anyway, so you'd have to question what his long-term outlook as a Spur looks like.

So I'd like to see what Chinook describes above but with Keldon still coming off the bench.

Still don't think we see any trades unless someone is blowing it up and there is an opportunity to snag a cost-controlled potential second star (Ivey for example).

[Chinook]

None of those guys would stop the "bleeding".

That's the point -- the Spurs need to "bleed" this year to maximize their pick and hopefully box out Toronto to keep that pick. They also need to be mindful about making trades with ATL that jeopardizes that pick. I think a lot of people want them to make an impact trade now because they want to improve the team this season. While I think that approach could have worked in the off-season, I think it's too late for that to be the plan (assuming they don't have an option for an All-NBA player that can only be acquired during this season).


The rest is talking out of both sides of your mouth, saying they need to stay as bad as possible (as if any iteration of this team risks passing the Craptors), while following it up by saying the genius needs to play the logical rotation to maximize them.

We're at the point where people actively think the team has no NBA players outside of Wemby and MAYBE Vassell. That's not true, but it's a perception that's out there based on how terribly the team plays most of the time. We're getting to the point where the team is going to get a number of high picks each year for multiple years. They need to make decisions on guys and can't be hamstringing everyone like they are now. They need to not be afraid of moving on from guys too soon, but they also shouldn't get into a cycle of burning prospects by not properly evaluating them. So play them in logical places, with legit coaching, and evaluate.

At this point, the Spurs have likely lost enough games compared to the Raptors that they shouldn't get ahead of them. That's even more true if they end up selling off their vets next month and replace them with guys like Branham and Wesley. Given Pop's recent activity, there is some reason to wonder if the Spurs purposefully lost games with "experimentation" in order to create a cushion to actually try to win games later. Whether that was intentional or Pop is just starting to wake up to how much direction the team needs, it seems fortunate for the Spurs that they should get a high pick at this point no matter how hard they try given the record so far and the limit to the actualized talent on the roster.

In other words, they can stop tanking now and still get a high pick so long as they don't make win-now trades.

[Seventyniner]

At this point, the Spurs have likely lost enough games compared to the Raptors that they shouldn't get ahead of them. That's even more true if they end up selling off their vets next month and replace them with guys like Branham and Wesley. Given Pop's recent activity, there is some reason to wonder if the Spurs purposefully lost games with "experimentation" in order to create a cushion to actually try to win games later. Whether that was intentional or Pop is just starting to wake up to how much direction the team needs, it seems fortunate for the Spurs that they should get a high pick at this point no matter how hard they try given the record so far and the limit to the actualized talent on the roster.

In other words, they can stop tanking now and still get a high pick so long as they don't make win-now trades.

If the Spurs really haven't been trying to win, it would be a kick in the ass if they start trying to and still fail as hard as they have been.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Chinook]

If the Spurs really haven't been trying to win, it would be a kick in the ass if they start trying to and still fail as hard as they have been.

I'll believe it when I see it.

It's fine if they do, because then they'd know they can clean house on the roster. Right now, it's hard to honestly say anyone's played themselves off the roster because they've been playing a non-sensical rotation. That's not a good situation to be in when the team is looking at adding two to four additional players in the draft.

[TD 21]

That's the point -- the Spurs need to "bleed" this year to maximize their pick and hopefully box out Toronto to keep that pick. They also need to be mindful about making trades with ATL that jeopardizes that pick.

In other words, they can stop tanking now and still get a high pick so long as they don't make win-now trades.

And they will "bleed" either way, whether that's staying the course or acquiring the type of player you mentioned.

If you wanted to make that argument with Quickley, fine, but that ship has obviously sailed. No other realistic option is "win-now".

[Chinook]

And they will "bleed" either way, whether that's staying the course or acquiring the type of player you mentioned.

The players I mentioned were not "stop the bleeding" players. I don't know why you keep acting like I said they were. They're specifically "they won't move the needle this year in terms of jeopardizing the picks, so acquiring them is fine" players. The team's goal doesn't have to be to lose as much as possible, especially now that they've already lost so much.



If you wanted to make that argument with Quickley, fine, but that ship has obviously sailed. No other realistic option is "win-now".

Quickley, Murray, Young, Donovan Mitchell -- the list goes on. There are trades that involve the Spurs giving up real assets to get Wemby "help" now. It's fine if you don't agree those trades would matter, but you can look at BB's thread to see that sentiment is alive and well with some Spurs fans. The Spurs have the capacity to trade for basically anyone. So "realistic" in terms of what the Spurs have the ability to do is extremely wide. "Realistic" in terms of what the front office is likely to do is basically a non-starter condition to place upon a discussion of what trades various fans want the team to do. The team is going to do whatever it does, regardless of what we think about them doing it. Trying to predict the team's moves is a worthwhile discussion, but I don't think that's what most are using this thread for.

[BacktoBasics]

The players I mentioned were not "stop the bleeding" players. I don't know why you keep acting like I said they were. They're specifically "they won't move the needle this year in terms of jeopardizing the picks, so acquiring them is fine" players. The team's goal doesn't have to be to lose as much as possible, especially now that they've already lost so much.




Quickley, Murray, Young, Donovan Mitchell -- the list goes on. There are trades that involve the Spurs giving up real assets to get Wemby "help" now. It's fine if you don't agree those trades would matter, but you can look at BB's thread to see that sentiment is alive and well with some Spurs fans. The Spurs have the capacity to trade for basically anyone. So "realistic" in terms of what the Spurs have the ability to do is extremely wide. "Realistic" in terms of what the front office is likely to do is basically a non-starter condition to place upon a discussion of what trades various fans want the team to do. The team is going to do whatever it does, regardless of what we think about them doing it. Trying to predict the team's moves is a worthwhile discussion, but I don't think that's what most are using this thread for.
Mitchell hasn’t been able to move the needle. He’d be interesting on this roster and certainly solves a number 1 scoring hole but maybe he’s not the number 1 people think he is.

Young is a cancer but does seem to be having a better season this year.

[spurraider21]

The players I mentioned were not "stop the bleeding" players. I don't know why you keep acting like I said they were. They're specifically "they won't move the needle this year in terms of jeopardizing the picks, so acquiring them is fine" players. The team's goal doesn't have to be to lose as much as possible, especially now that they've already lost so much.




Quickley, Murray, Young, Donovan Mitchell -- the list goes on. There are trades that involve the Spurs giving up real assets to get Wemby "help" now. It's fine if you don't agree those trades would matter, but you can look at BB's thread to see that sentiment is alive and well with some Spurs fans. The Spurs have the capacity to trade for basically anyone. So "realistic" in terms of what the Spurs have the ability to do is extremely wide. "Realistic" in terms of what the front office is likely to do is basically a non-starter condition to place upon a discussion of what trades various fans want the team to do. The team is going to do whatever it does, regardless of what we think about them doing it. Trying to predict the team's moves is a worthwhile discussion, but I don't think that's what most are using this thread for.
i dont think Quickly was about "winning now" so much as him being a young guy worth signing an extension to for the long haul. trading for him now would just be the way to get him in the door, as now toronto is almost certain to retain him

[scott]

I believe Chinook has very eloquently laid out an example of "useful tanking" (for lack of a better term). This is quite different than what the Spurs have done thus far, which is to just suck ass and lose games without any apparent long-term utility. Hopefully the rest of the reason is more like what has been laid out here.

[Chinook]

i dont think Quickly was about "winning now" so much as him being a young guy worth signing an extension to for the long haul. trading for him now would just be the way to get him in the door, as now toronto is almost certain to retain him

There's a difference between trading for a pick to take Wallace or trading for Ivey versus trading for Quickley, though. With those first two situations, you're acquiring players you feel aren't going to be good enough to jeopardize a high pick now because they're so young but hope they will be foundational players. In Quickley's case, you're trading for him basically thinking you'd've given him a sizeable extension had he been on the team back in October. You're committing to him as if he's a piece of the core. It's a much harder sell to be willing to lock up that much cap space in a guy you feel comfortable won't move the needle this year. Sure you don't have to think a fourth-year player is a finished product, but you've still gotta think he should be doing more than that if you're going to make him the second-highest paid player one your team. If the dude is just a finishing piece, you can afford to pay more later when the team is more certain of its core rather than trying to lock up a 4th-6th man on $100M/4 early on.

[MannyIsGod]

People thinking Wemby is bolting after 4 years of not winning a championship are pretty damn foolish. The money will be a big factor and so will the fact that almost no draft picks in this situation are truly contnendors at that point in the time line.

[MannyIsGod]

you mortgage the future via trading picks. this is literally the perfect time to.

This is literally the dumbest time to. I cannot think if a worse time to trade picks than when you are one of the worst teams in history.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs look like they might have three or four top-10 picks incoming with their own and Toronto's this year and ATL's next year. Securing those picks should be the main restriction in any trade. To me, that means the Spurs have to remain worse than Toronto this year and that they can't make the Hawks better or give them back their pick. They don't have to keep all three guys they drat with those picks, but they do need to make sure they have those picks in hand to trade. That's way more important than trying to stop the "bleeding" this year by trading for Quickley or Murray or whomever else. I'm not worried about them acquiring someone like Ivey, Fultz or Davion Mitchell at this point. That shouldn't affect any of those picks. If they wanna do something like that or be the team that lets Rubio rehab, it's whatever.

I don't think Johnson and Vassell have the low value folks are assigning to them. Devin might be too awkward to trade, so I don't him being dealt, but I could see a team offering something of value for Keldon. SpursTalk is meming right now, but the dude is having a good year, and it should be clear from last game that he's not the cause of the awful defense. Giving his contract, I could see a rising team wanting to bring him on as their long-term sixth-man solution. I think it'd be a mistake for the Spurs to jump ship on him outside of a really good package, though. I think he's being hurt by the lineup confusion as well. Until Pop stops fucking around and plays the Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Wembanyama lineup that always made the most sense if Vic showed he could handle the five, most of the main guys are going to look pretty bad. As I've said before, I wish Pop would actually put the team's best foot forward so we could what changes the team actually needs to make versus what they can hope will fix itself with experience.

Jones, Graham, Wesley
Vassell, Champ, Branham
Johnson, McDermott, Cissoko
Sochan, Osman, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

That should just be the rotation for 5-10 games, obviously with the exception of Collins and Bassey being hurt and the team having to play the two-ways and Mamu there. Let that rotation cook until the deadline, sell off the vets and give the young players the rest of the year to show if they should be in next year's rotation. Then basically go into next summer with an open mind when it comes to moving every player besides Wemby.

I don't disagree with this, and sure Devin and Keldon have more value but I have a hard time seeing that type of package makes sense to move them for. Trading them for draft picks that may or may not have good value in the future just seems pointless at this moment considering how many picks we already have. I don't know what an actual good package for Keldon looks like since I don't see the Spurs getting a direct upgrade.

As for Pop and lineups, if Pop isn't just a trash coach and this is an actual intentional tank, then we would supposedly see him switch to a more reasonable lineup at some point. I am not holding my breath.

[vy65]

People thinking Wemby is bolting after 4 years of not winning a championship are pretty damn foolish. The money will be a big factor and so will the fact that almost no draft picks in this situation are truly contnendors at that point in the time line.

I hope to god you’re right. It is re-assuring that even Kawhi re-upped with the team before pulling the bullshit that has traumatized the fans. But then that begs the question of what was the point of this year? It clearly hasn’t been to accumulate draft capital - other than the Dallas trade, I don’t think the team has added any first round assets beyond a pick swap. I still have not heard an answer to why they needed another year of evaluating players that had at least 1 year’s tenure on the team to “see what they have.” So is the point to physically condition Wemby to play an NBA season? Maybe, but that’s not mutually exclusive of other deals that could be had. The Collins and Vessel extensions are concerning mysteries at this point. I get that Wemby shouldn’t move after his rookie deal is up, but to be this rudderless is at best confusing and at worst a signal to Vic that this team can’t put what he needs together. I hope I’m wrong, but there’s clearly no clear sense of purpose for this team - particularly given how horrific Vessel, Collins, etc are and have been.

[MannyIsGod]

I hope to god you’re right. It is re-assuring that even Kawhi re-upped with the team before pulling the bullshit that has traumatized the fans. But then that begs the question of what was the point of this year? It clearly hasn’t been to accumulate draft capital - other than the Dallas trade, I don’t think the team has added any first round assets beyond a pick swap. I still have not heard an answer to why they needed another year of evaluating players that had at least 1 year’s tenure on the team to “see what they have.” So is the point to physically condition Wemby to play an NBA season? Maybe, but that’s not mutually exclusive of other deals that could be had. The Collins and Vessel extensions are concerning mysteries at this point. I get that Wemby shouldn’t move after his rookie deal is up, but to be this rudderless is at best confusing and at worst a signal to Vic that this team can’t put what he needs together. I hope I’m wrong, but there’s clearly no clear sense of purpose for this team - particularly given how horrific Vessel, Collins, etc are and have been.

A player like Wemby walking away from a rookie extension is leaving an incredible amount of money on the table. Wemby could very well earn a rookie extension that is 30% of the cap should he win a DPOY or two in these rookie years. Judging by this year that is a very real possibility if not likelyhood. That amount of money he'd leave on the table and decided to leave the Spurs is immense. Then there are supermax implications later if he leaves as well. Its just a monumental amount of money he'd have to be willing to walk away from if he indeed wanted out. You just don't see it happen.

[vy65]

A player like Wemby walking away from a rookie extension is leaving an incredible amount of money on the table. Wemby could very well earn a rookie extension that is 30% of the cap should he win a DPOY or two in these rookie years. Judging by this year that is a very real possibility if not likelyhood. That amount of money he'd leave on the table and decided to leave the Spurs is immense. Then there are supermax implications later if he leaves as well. Its just a monumental amount of money he'd have to be willing to walk away from if he indeed wanted out. You just don't see it happen.

I agree with that. And, the glimpses of his character (liking deep nerd shit, thinking Vegas is dystopian) along with the TD/TP connection give me hope he’ll stay, along with the financial reasons you’ve detailed. That still leaves open the question of what the fuck the team is doing and what direction they’ve set themselves on. They obviously have a huge part to play as well, and what we’ve seen from nearly 1/2 the season is troubling.

[Frenchfred]

People thinking Wemby is bolting after 4 years of not winning a championship are pretty damn foolish. The money will be a big factor and so will the fact that almost no draft picks in this situation are truly contnendors at that point in the time line.

it is not about winning a championship in the next 4 years but putting a team capable of competing in 4 years, i.e., the team needs to be good (OKC actual level) in 3 to give Wemby confidence that the Spurs can win. Money is important but Wemby made it pretty clear that he wants to win, I’m pretty sure that he would give up some money if that meant playing for a team competing for the championship. At the end, earning 250 millions or 180 millions, what’s the difference, that’s already a lot of money and plenty to live until he dies

[MannyIsGod]

it is not about winning a championship in the next 4 years but putting a team capable of competing in 4 years, i.e., the team needs to be good (OKC actual level) in 3 to give Wemby confidence that the Spurs can win. Money is important but Wemby made it pretty clear that he wants to win, I’m pretty sure that he would give up some money if that meant playing for a team competing for the championship. At the end, earning 250 millions or 180 millions, what’s the difference, that’s already a lot of money and plenty to live until he dies

And yet, players somehow all seem to pick the route with the most early career money. Which top pick recently has declined their rookie extension? Especially when the outcome is restricted FA. Giving up a lot of money to end up in the exact same place isn't a very good decision. People thinking Wemby won't be a Spur after his rookie contract because he walked away don't make much sense.

[scott]

The difference between a 25% max and a 30% on his second deal can easily be made up by the additional endorsement value that comes from being in a glamour market. Fortunately for us, it doesn't seem Wemby is all too interested in that.

[rogcl1]

I hope to god you’re right. It is re-assuring that even Kawhi re-upped with the team before pulling the bullshit that has traumatized the fans. But then that begs the question of what was the point of this year? It clearly hasn’t been to accumulate draft capital - other than the Dallas trade, I don’t think the team has added any first round assets beyond a pick swap. I still have not heard an answer to why they needed another year of evaluating players that had at least 1 year’s tenure on the team to “see what they have.” So is the point to physically condition Wemby to play an NBA season? Maybe, but that’s not mutually exclusive of other deals that could be had. The Collins and Vessel extensions are concerning mysteries at this point. I get that Wemby shouldn’t move after his rookie deal is up, but to be this rudderless is at best confusing and at worst a signal to Vic that this team can’t put what he needs together. I hope I’m wrong, but there’s clearly no clear sense of purpose for this team - particularly given how horrific Vessel, Collins, etc are and have been.

This year of evaluation does not only involve the other players, it also involves seeing what Wemby has and what he can do and how to build around him for the future.

[MannyIsGod]

The difference between a 25% max and a 30% on his second deal can easily be made up by the additional endorsement value that comes from being in a glamour market. Fortunately for us, it doesn't seem Wemby is all too interested in that.

But other teams can't offer him a 25% max. And what they can offer, we can match in RFA or he has to play a year on a QO (in year 5) in order to reach UFA which is a hell of a gamble to take on long term security. The odds are incredibly stacked in the drafting teams favor here.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The difference between a 25% max and a 30% on his second deal can easily be made up by the additional endorsement value that comes from being in a glamour market. Fortunately for us, it doesn't seem Wemby is all too interested in that.

Not that easily. You’re talking about upwards of $10 million/ year of extra endorsements. Plus factor in the lack of a state income tax that comes with every glamour market except Miami and it’s a significant chunk of change.

[Frenchfred]

And yet, players somehow all seem to pick the route with the most early career money. Which top pick recently has declined their rookie extension? Especially when the outcome is restricted FA. Giving up a lot of money to end up in the exact same place isn't a very good decision. People thinking Wemby won't be a Spur after his rookie contract because he walked away don't make much sense.

I know that we are in the US but there are more important things than money. I don't know if it's the European thing (French in that case) but I'd leave money on the table for legacy especially when there is still more money than I can spend.

[MannyIsGod]

I know that we are in the US but there are more important things than money. I don't know if it's the European thing (French in that case) but I'd leave money on the table for legacy especially when there is still more money than I can spend.

I repeat, and yet, they all always take the money. I don't care what you say sitting in your boxers eating a baguette my dude. Luka is European and has been on an incredibly poorly manage team. Took the money. Gianis. Took the money. Euro's are like everyone else and they take the fucking money. Also what are you talking about with teh state income tax? The Spurs have no state income tax and are the ones who can offer the most money.

[Extra Stout]

I know that we are in the US but there are more important things than money. I don't know if it's the European thing (French in that case) but I'd leave money on the table for legacy especially when there is still more money than I can spend.
There’s more to legacy than basketball. Hundreds of millions of marginal dollars managed wisely can deliver a lot of power to change the world in ways that truly matter.

[james evans]

Spurs aren't going to do anything. And it is my belief that if this losing continues and we don't get better, the owners are paying Popovich under the table in that we lose so the attendance can drop and they can sell/move the team. There is no other explanation for the horrendous coaching, lineups and draft picks.

[scott]

But other teams can't offer him a 25% max. And what they can offer, we can match in RFA or he has to play a year on a QO (in year 5) in order to reach UFA which is a hell of a gamble to take on long term security. The odds are incredibly stacked in the drafting teams favor here.

They can offer the 25% max if he hits UFA, which he can do by just playing under the QO in year 5 as you mention. There would be nothing to match in RFA, because he wouldn't sign an offer sheet in this scenario. This is of course is all not all that realistic, as if he really wanted out he would simply demand a trade. My point is, however, that there really is not a financial hook for SA keeping him (especially since he'd just demand a trade and get the same amount elsewhere).

[scott]

Not that easily. You’re talking about upwards of $10 million/ year of extra endorsements. Plus factor in the lack of a state income tax that comes with every glamour market except Miami and it’s a significant chunk of change.

$10mm/year is not all that much in endorsements, especially for a player at Wemby's stature and recognition if he reaches near his potential. The biggest names bring in close to $100mm/year in endorsement deals. Do you think LA/NY/Miami are worth 10% more than San Antonio?

The state income tax issue is largely overblown since a) it only applies to half of the player's games and b) the evidence suggests that players don't care that much since they keep signing with those glamour market clubs, likely because of the additional endorsement potential. Baseball provides us good evidence of this, where 9 of the biggest deals in history are for teams in CA, NY and PA (the 10th in TX, which is evidence that the Rangers are willing to spend the money).

Another factor that causes the state income tax issue to be overblown is that the states with no income tax still find a way to collect their taxes elsewhere. In the case of TX, it through one of the highest property taxes (5th highest) and highest sales taxes (14th highest) in the nation. Granted, I do not make multi-millions a year, but I am a high earner and my overall tax burden in a state with income tax (HI) in lower than it was in TX because what I pay in income tax is less than what I'm saving in property tax. Of course, this all depends on the value of your home... if Wemby wants to live in a 1br apartment in TX, he can save a shit ton of money in taxes by being in TX - but if he wants to live in a $40MM mansion (I don't think these exist in San Antonio :lol) then the dynamic obviously changes.

[scott]

To put a point on the endorsement thing. Lebron signed a deal with Nike worth a billion dollars alone, compared to his cumulative NBA contract career earnings of $497MM.

It is estimated that Lebron's endorsement and business dealings made him close to $900MM in 2022 alone (according to Forbes Magazine). Lebron is involved in a lot more than simply endorsing things, and has made some smart investments along the way, but this is the kind of earning potential possible at the very top of the pyramid. Do you think Wemby has a better chance of achieving this if he is a San Antonio Spur, or a Los Angeles Laker?

This isn't to say that Wemby is definitely going to be a Laker... but it would be very shortsighted to think that the Spurs have a money advantage here.

[Chinook]

$10mm/year is not all that much in endorsements, especially for a player at Wemby's stature and recognition if he reaches near his potential. The biggest names bring in close to $100mm/year in endorsement deals. Do you think LA/NY/Miami are worth 10% more than San Antonio?

The state income tax issue is largely overblown since a) it only applies to half of the player's games and b) the evidence suggests that players don't care that much since they keep signing with those glamour market clubs, likely because of the additional endorsement potential. Baseball provides us good evidence of this, where 9 of the biggest deals in history are for teams in CA, NY and PA (the 10th in TX, which is evidence that the Rangers are willing to spend the money).

Another factor that causes the state income tax issue to be overblown is that the states with no income tax still find a way to collect their taxes elsewhere. In the case of TX, it through one of the highest property taxes (5th highest) and highest sales taxes (14th highest) in the nation. Granted, I do not make multi-millions a year, but I am a high earner and my overall tax burden in a state with income tax (HI) in lower than it was in TX because what I pay in income tax is less than what I'm saving in property tax. Of course, this all depends on the value of your home... if Wemby wants to live in a 1br apartment in TX, he can save a shit ton of money in taxes by being in TX - but if he wants to live in a $40MM mansion (I don't think these exist in San Antonio :lol) then the dynamic obviously changes.

It's not about all endorsements though, because he can receive those no matter where he plays. Wemby already has a giant shoe deal, which is the as far as I know the bulk of endorsement money most stars receive. He'll get national endorsements anywhere he goes provided he's a star. We're really talking about local endorsements, and I have no idea how that breaks down and whether it makes up for the salary difference. Money is not going to be a factor in this, though. If it were, Wemby would be signing tons of endorsement deals now -- his stock is already really high nationally -- and it doesn't seem like a huge priority.

You talk about a ton of players signing with big markets, but you're overlooking the stronger trend of players re-signing with their original clubs after their rookie deals. Hell, the only time we've seen a player turn down a DPE contract to leave was Harden. If Victor is the average star, he's on the team until a year after he inks the supermax at least. That would be six years at the very least. Unless he's Kawahi and wants to leave no matter what, it seems more likely he'd pull a Giannis and not sign the extension until his sixth year (pushing the trade window into his seventh season) in order to threaten the Spurs into going all-in. (This assumes the Spurs haven't won at least a title with him already by this point. If they have, this tension doesn't really come up at all.)

[Chinook]

To put a point on the endorsement thing. Lebron signed a deal with Nike worth a billion dollars alone, compared to his cumulative NBA contract career earnings of $497MM.

And where was Lebron when he signed that deal? Small-market Cleveland.

[scott]

It's not about all endorsements though, because he can receive those no matter where he plays. Wemby already has a giant shoe deal, which is the as far as I know the bulk of endorsement money most stars receive. He'll get national endorsements anywhere he goes provided he's a star. We're really talking about local endorsements, and I have no idea how that breaks down and whether it makes up for the salary difference. Money is not going to be a factor in this, though. If it were, Wemby would be signing tons of endorsement deals now -- his stock is already really high nationally -- and it doesn't seem like a huge priority.

You talk about a ton of players signing with big markets, but you're overlooking the stronger trend of players re-signing with their original clubs after their rookie deals. Hell, the only time we've seen a player turn down a DPE contract to leave was Harden. If Victor is the average star, he's on the team until a year after he inks the supermax at least. That would be six years at the very least. Unless he's Kawahi and wants to leave no matter what, it seems more likely he'd pull a Giannis and not sign the extension until his sixth year (pushing the trade window into his seventh season) in order to threaten the Spurs into going all-in. (This assumes the Spurs haven't won at least a title with him already by this point. If they have, this tension doesn't really come up at all.)

This is technically correct, but the value of said endorsements are a function of the stature a player carries. Wemby playing in a glamour market will increase his personal value versus playing in San Antonio, or Portland, or OKC. This is just the simple economics of marketing. It's arguably why Klay Thompson's endorsement deals are roughly 3x bigger than Jokic, for example. Wemby did ink a $100MM shoe deal already with Nike, but it's not a lifetime deal (which is smart off him, betting on himself that his personal value will only increase over time).

With that said, Giannis is the first small market player to get his endorsement earnings close to about equal to his playing earnings, so maybe he is proving that it is possible. The only other current players who have done this all play, or have played, in major markets (Bron, Curry, Durant). I'd still very much argue that if Coke, or GMC, or Verizon wanted Giannis or Wemby to be in their commercials, they would be more valuable as the star or the Lakers or Nets than the star of the Spurs or Bucks.


And where was Lebron when he signed that deal? Small-market Cleveland.

Correct, but only after playing in Miami. Did playing Miami raise Lebron's stature and thus his endorsement value? It's impossible to know for sure... but it is where Lebron became and NBA champion, in a glamor market, with a highly visible team with other high profile players. Think what you want about Lebron the person (I think he's great, personally), but there is no denying that he has demonstrated savvy at maximizing the value of his brand.

I'll be the first to say that money won't be the reason he leaves, but it won't be the reason he stays either.

[DPG21920]

I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s

[onechance87]

Spurs aren't going to do anything. And it is my belief that if this losing continues and we don't get better, the owners are paying Popovich under the table in that we lose so the attendance can drop and they can sell/move the team. There is no other explanation for the horrendous coaching, lineups and draft picks.

yea that crossed my mind....but hoping thats whats not going on....

[Seventyniner]

I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s

Unfortunately, the Pistons have already traded away their 2024 second round pick. It went to the Knicks, and they flipped it to Toronto as part of last week's Quickley/Barrett/Anunoby deal.

But they do have the higher of the Grizzlies' and Wizards' 2024 second. This will most likely be the Wizards and will be maybe a pick or two behind the Pistons' natural pick. The #33 pick isn't worth appreciably less than the #30 pick, so I would totally be on board with flipping a player for that.

I don't think the Pistons would bite, but teams do dumb things sometimes.

[spurraider21]

I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s
in what universe is a 3-30 team sending draft capital for expiring vets?

[Harry Callahan]

SA should be able to add a talented, youngish vet (maybe two) via free agency this summer or the next one at the latest with no significant draft capital expended. The opportunity to get heavy minutes and have Wemby behind you will be a fit for someone. Roster churn will be going on this year and next. They should have a good amount of cap space in the next 3-4 years as they build this thing from the current situation to something much better (hopefully). This situation is still just slightly beyond ground zero right now.

[Harry Callahan]

Spurs aren't going to do anything. And it is my belief that if this losing continues and we don't get better, the owners are paying Popovich under the table in that we lose so the attendance can drop and they can sell/move the team. There is no other explanation for the horrendous coaching, lineups and draft picks.

The Spurs investor group includes a bunch of people who do not get to the point of owning a chunk of an NBA franchise and then proceed to destroy its value. The ownership group is used to winning in business, not losing.

Why would the Spurs pay Popovich the highest salary in basketball AND pay him "under the table"? That makes no sense.

This is and will be the only major league franchise in San Antonio for the next few decades. P*ssing it away by bad management decisions won't fly for very long, IMO.

[spurraider21]

SA should be able to add a talented, youngish vet (maybe two) via free agency this summer or the next one at the latest with no significant draft capital expended. The opportunity to get heavy minutes and have Wemby behind you will be a fit for someone. Roster churn will be going on this year and next. They should have a good amount of cap space in the next 3-4 years as they build this thing from the current situation to something much better (hopefully). This situation is still just slightly beyond ground zero right now.
2024 free agent class is pretty poor.

as far as young-ish point guards, its a lot of guys who cant shoot, like markelle fultz, dennis smith jr. theres Tyus Jones who has at least become a respectable shooter in recent years, but not really the most inspiring get, and has the same issue as his brother of being undersized defensively. i think monte morris could be a nice backup, but we already have 10 mil committed to Tre as our backup next year. and if you just want a small guy who can shoot and not much else theres aaron holiday

at SG, malik monk has actually come along nicely and is playing well right now. he's an undersized 2, but a nice player. deanthony melton can be a decent bench combo guard, but nothing that really moves the needle. gary trent shouldnt be as expensive as his last contract, but again, not a needle mover. grayson allen is playing himself into a solid contract, but he's not that young, as i think he was a 23 year old rookie or somethin like that. and then there's lonnie :lol

forward is also pretty thin. if you were looking for guys younger than, say, cedi osman, there's again not much. there's kelly oubre who has been around for a while but finally is playing good ball for a good sixers team. theres miles bridges who has played well, but yeah, i dont see that happening. and then there's meh guys like derrick jones jr

caveat being the above are all unrestricted free agents. i dont know what the RFA market is going to look like. anyone worth having will likely be kept. sixers will max out maxey, raptors will re-sign quickly, etc

if the spurs want to add young talent next offseason, its gonna come through the draft, our natural pick will be good, its just a matter of the raptors staying mediocre and delivering a top 10 pick to us

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs investor group includes a bunch of people who do not get to the point of owning a chunk of an NBA franchise and then proceed to destroy its value. The ownership group is used to winning in business, not losing.

Why would the Spurs pay Popovich the highest salary in basketball AND pay him "under the table"? That makes no sense.

This is and will be the only major league franchise in San Antonio for the next few decades. P*ssing it away by bad management decisions won't fly for very long, IMO.
There’s a hell of a lot more money to be made in Seattle or Las Vegas than there is in San Antonio.

[james evans]

The Spurs investor group includes a bunch of people who do not get to the point of owning a chunk of an NBA franchise and then proceed to destroy its value. The ownership group is used to winning in business, not losing.

Why would the Spurs pay Popovich the highest salary in basketball AND pay him "under the table"? That makes no sense.

This is and will be the only major league franchise in San Antonio for the next few decades. P*ssing it away by bad management decisions won't fly for very long, IMO.
What doesn't make sense is how we drafted the best player in the draft and that made us worse than last year. THAT doesn't make sense.

[spurraider21]

the spurs this year should have been better than the spurs last year, as reflected by their O/U being about 30 wins. and then next year with further development/improvement they naturally should have been competing for the play-in with some additional rookie contributors. at that point it would make sense to spend some legit money on good vets who aren't washed.

but given the atrocious coaching and lack of player development, we basically stalled and fell a year behind. dont really see how the spurs make progress in free agency next year. imo they just eat some contracts like they did with cedi/bullock/payne

not really sure what they can do at the deadline. nobody is going to be buying mcdermott/osman/graham the same way we've had buyers in years past for thad young/josh richardson/jakob

[ambchang]

A player like Wemby walking away from a rookie extension is leaving an incredible amount of money on the table. Wemby could very well earn a rookie extension that is 30% of the cap should he win a DPOY or two in these rookie years. Judging by this year that is a very real possibility if not likelyhood. That amount of money he'd leave on the table and decided to leave the Spurs is immense. Then there are supermax implications later if he leaves as well. Its just a monumental amount of money he'd have to be willing to walk away from if he indeed wanted out. You just don't see it happen.

DPoY always goes to the best defender on a top 5 defensive team. CIA pop instructing the supporting cast to collapse the paint and coat wemby the DPoY, thus not having to overpay. Genius.

[DPG21920]

in what universe is a 3-30 team sending draft capital for expiring vets?

Teams tired of losing that need actual depth and are losing because of it.

[spurraider21]

Teams tired of losing that need actual depth and are losing because of it.
:lol no

[DPG21920]

:lol no

Im not saying its smart and I prefaced it with them being desperate so not sure what’s funny tbh…

[Frenchfred]

I repeat, and yet, they all always take the money. I don't care what you say sitting in your boxers eating a baguette my dude. Luka is European and has been on an incredibly poorly manage team. Took the money. Gianis. Took the money. Euro's are like everyone else and they take the fucking money. Also what are you talking about with teh state income tax? The Spurs have no state income tax and are the ones who can offer the most money.

We'll see. I'm pretty sure that he is gone if the team is as bad as it is right now. Where did I talk about income tax?

[R. DeMurre]

I don't know if citing precedent really matters with Wemby regarding future decisions-- he's a 19 year old who said in a postgame interview that he didn't care for Las Vegas, and that the city struck him as "the closest thing on Earth to a dystopia." That's not something the typical 19 year old basketball prodigy says.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/spurs-victor-wembanyama-slams-las-vegas-as-dystopia/#:~:text=Wembanyama%20did%20have%20fond%20memories ,the%20biggest%20fan%20of%20Vegas.%22

[K...]

it's weird that people say " oh wemby can go farther in CA or PNW teams" totally ignore this thing called France when prognosticating his success at finding endorsement $$$

[TD 21]

The players I mentioned were not "stop the bleeding" players. I don't know why you keep acting like I said they were.

I obviously misunderstood . . . I owe you a few for all the times the shoe was on the other foot.



I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s

:lmao As if a bottom feeder, with high (but not volume) picks would trade any for superfluous (Bogdanovic, Morris, Burks, Harris) vets that they can easily sign in the off season.

[MannyIsGod]

I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s

Would rather keep them then trade them for 2nds. Even if they leave in the offseason.

[MannyIsGod]

We'll see. I'm pretty sure that he is gone if the team is as bad as it is right now. Where did I talk about income tax?

The income tax part was me being stupid and mixing up two posts. Thats on me. My bad.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't know if citing precedent really matters with Wemby regarding future decisions-- he's a 19 year old who said in a postgame interview that he didn't care for Las Vegas, and that the city struck him as "the closest thing on Earth to a dystopia." That's not something the typical 19 year old basketball prodigy says.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/spurs-victor-wembanyama-slams-las-vegas-as-dystopia/#:~:text=Wembanyama%20did%20have%20fond%20memories ,the%20biggest%20fan%20of%20Vegas.%22

Yeah, I think city of San Antonio favors the appetite of euro players, who aren't as drawn to the glitz of Vegas or LA.

The Spurs just need to put a decent product around Wemby and all should be good moving forward.

[DPG21920]

Would rather keep them then trade them for 2nds. Even if they leave in the offseason.

Why? They aren’t helping us win or develop so why keep them? They will be and should be gone this off season IMO

[DPG21920]

I obviously misunderstood . . . I owe you a few for all the times the shoe was on the other foot.




:lmao As if a bottom feeder, with high (but not volume) picks would trade any for superfluous (Bogdanovic, Morris, Burks, Harris) vets that they can easily sign in the off season.

Not every team is ok with losing so much even if it’s sub optimal asset wise. We will see if DET makes any trades in this mold or not

[spurraider21]

Not every team is ok with losing so much even if it’s sub optimal asset wise. We will see if DET makes any trades in this mold or not
they wont

[mo7888]

Watching this game, I'm reminded that everyone on this team not named Wembanyama should be available in trade for the right deal.

I'm also reminded that we drafted Sochan to high, and I hope we can salvage something out of him in a trade to some team who thinks they can do something with him.

[spurraider21]

Watching this game, I'm reminded that everyone on this team not named Wembanyama should be available in trade for the right deal.

I'm also reminded that we drafted Sochan to high, and I hope we can salvage something out of him in a trade to some team who thinks they can do something with him.
im waiting for him to do literally anything productive

[BackHome]

Right now the only true starter I see is Wemby and maybe Vassell if I squint my eyes. To me I think that Keldon can make a very good sixth man and Sochan I think can develop into a solid bench guy. Other then these 4 guys everyone else needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. If Blake could just develop a good 3 ball I think he could also be a good bench player who can come in play some great D on some of these fast guards.

[exstatic]

Spurs aren't going to do anything. And it is my belief that if this losing continues and we don't get better, the owners are paying Popovich under the table in that we lose so the attendance can drop and they can sell/move the team. There is no other explanation for the horrendous coaching, lineups and draft picks.

Yes, let’s come up with a whackadoo conspiracy theory when Occam’s razor points to an obvious tank to maximize our pick and squeeze Toronto out of the top 6.

[CGD]

Watching this game, I'm reminded that everyone on this team not named Wembanyama should be available in trade for the right deal.

I'm also reminded that we drafted Sochan to high, and I hope we can salvage something out of him in a trade to some team who thinks they can do something with him.

Our slot (9) in that years draft was frustrating, since there was a clear demarcation/talent drop off right around there. Really wish they would have gone with their gut and “reached” for Jalen there. I still think there is a place for Jeremy though, he’s still a blank canvas in many ways.

[scott]

Why? They aren’t helping us win or develop so why keep them? They will be and should be gone this off season IMO

But you think maybe Detroit will want them?

I'd argue Doug and Cedi offer more value than some SRP's will never use. This team needs veteran leadership, and right now they're about all we have. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both back next year on bargain deals, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (so long as they are pushed further down the rotation).

[mo7888]

Our slot (9) in that years draft was frustrating, since there was a clear demarcation/talent drop off right around there. Really wish they would have gone with their gut and “reached” for Jalen there. I still think there is a place for Jeremy though, he’s still a blank canvas in many ways.

My board for that season looked like this:

2022 tiers
Tier 1
1. Paolo Banchero
2. Jabari Smith
3. Chet Holmgren
4. Jaden Ivey
Tier 2
5. Keegan Murray
6. Benedict Mathurin
7. Jalen Duren
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Johnny Davis
Tier 3
10. Shaedon Sharpe
11. Jalen Williams
12. Ousmane Dieng
13. Jeremy Sochan
14. AJ Griffin
15. Malaki Branham
16. Mark Williams
Tier 4
17. Ochai Agbagi
18. Tari Eason
19. Gabriele Procida
20. EJ Liddell
21. Nikola Jovic
22. Blake Wesley

I never could project Sochan higher based on an outside shot i felt was pretty broken. I expected him to be in the tier i had him based on a defensive projection that he hasn't lived up to.

[CGD]

My board for that season looked like this:

2022 tiers
Tier 1
1. Paolo Banchero
2. Jabari Smith
3. Chet Holmgren
4. Jaden Ivey
Tier 2
5. Keegan Murray
6. Benedict Mathurin
7. Jalen Duren
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Johnny Davis
Tier 3
10. Shaedon Sharpe
11. Jalen Williams
12. Ousmane Dieng
13. Jeremy Sochan
14. AJ Griffin
15. Malaki Branham
16. Mark Williams
Tier 4
17. Ochai Agbagi
18. Tari Eason
19. Gabriele Procida
20. EJ Liddell
21. Nikola Jovic
22. Blake Wesley

I never could project Sochan higher based on an outside shot i felt was pretty broken. I expected him to be in the tier i had him based on a defensive projection that he hasn't lived up to.

That’s right, pick 9 was EXACTLY where the widely thought talent cliff happened in that draft. I remember arguing for Johnny Davis as the next Booker — boy was I wrong.

My sense was when faced with that draft choice the spurs went with smarts/potential bbiq, confidence, and length. I do think they were torn about Williams tho, but I can’t blame them for their decision in the moment considering that it’s a crapshoot once the clear talent cliff in a particular draft is reached. I also wonder if after the Tokyo Olympics the August before, Pop still had his Draymond tinted glasses on and not that influenced the decision making.

[mo7888]

That’s right, pick 9 was EXACTLY where the widely thought talent cliff happened in that draft. I remember arguing for Johnny Davis as the next Booker — boy was I wrong.

My sense was when faced with that draft choice the spurs went with smarts/potential bbiq, confidence, and length. I do think they were torn about Williams tho, but I can’t blame them for their decision in the moment considering that it’s a crapshoot once the clear talent cliff in a particular draft is reached. I also wonder if after the Tokyo Olympics the August before, Pop still had his Draymond tinted glasses on and not that influenced the decision making.

Yup... I've been working on my 2024 board a little bit. Right now I've got drop offs after 6 or 7 and then again around 14. I haven't started breaking it into tiers yet, but that's roughly what it looks like to me early on ..

[CGD]

Not a bonafide trade rumor, but Simmons had this three way idea a few weeks back. Thought it was interesting, and at worst a nothing to lose proposition:

NYK: Bogdanovic
DET: Osman; McDermott; 2 NYK SRPs
SAS: Hayes; Fournier

[scott]

Yup... I've been working on my 2024 board a little bit. Right now I've got drop offs after 6 or 7 and then again around 14. I haven't started breaking it into tiers yet, but that's roughly what it looks like to me early on ..

I know it is early, but how do you see your tiers comparing with the same tiers from previous drafts (the Sochan draft for example)?

Every draft is different of course. The 2022 draft had a really solid Tier 1, for example (and I still believe that to be true, I think they entire first tier are still going to be solid. Ivey just needs a different situation). Whereas, 2023 is looking like it truly was a 1-man tier-1 and then a big drop off to a Tier 2 (and I do think it's a Tier 2, because I would rank all of Scoot, Miller, Thompsons below any of the 2022 T1).

From my perspective, this draft's T1 is looking like a T2 in any other draft. I'm actually a little bummed that this is the year we might have two top-10 picks.

[scott]

Not a bonafide trade rumor, but Simmons had this three way idea a few weeks back. Thought it was interesting, and at worst a nothing to lose proposition:

NYK: Bogdanovic
DET: Osman; McDermott; 2 NYK SRPs
SAS: Hayes; Fournier

I don't hate this at all... but it seems kind of a lazy "stick all the French guys with the Spurs" kind of proposal.

With that said, I do kind of like it because it leaves us with a vet presence on an expiring (although one that is not known to the team - there is value in McD and Osman here right now that we can't overlook), and gives us a spin at the roulette wheel at a PG

[TheGreatYacht]

Jonathan Kuminga has lost faith in Steve Kerr and no longer believes that Kerr will allow him to reach his full potential, according to Shams. WOW.

Doubt Poop would ever move for a player that’s not a beta like he likes them, but he’d fit our need at the 4 instantly. Kerr pulled a :pop: last night and only played him 19 minutes when he was having a good game 16/4/4 on 5-7 shooting. Completely understandable for him to have had enough.

Wemby
Kuminga
Dunn
Vassell
Dillingham

I just Kum’d

[LeBowen]

Not a bonafide trade rumor, but Simmons had this three way idea a few weeks back. Thought it was interesting, and at worst a nothing to lose proposition:

NYK: Bogdanovic
DET: Osman; McDermott; 2 NYK SRPs
SAS: Hayes; Fournier

We're not going to help the Knicks for free. Fuck them.
Hayes and Fournier are both garbage, but so are Osman and McDermott.
Useless trade.


Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1743325699350401078

(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1743325699350401078)After sitting the final 18 minutes of Nuggets loss, Warriors forward Jonathan Kuminga has lost faith in Steve Kerr and no longer believes that Kerr will allow him to reach his full potential, sources say.

Haven't seen enough of him, but would definitely be an upgrade over Sochan and they can't ask for too much.

[spurraider21]

Kuminga would be a good add imo. dno what his next contract is supposed to look like tho

[scott]

Word last year (reported by timvp) was the Spurs had zero interest in Kuminga.

[TheGreatYacht]

What would be a realistic trade package for the Kum Bucket? Keep in mind the Warriors are in shambles right now.

Keldon, Sochan, Collins for Kuminga and CP3 works tbh

[scott]

What would be a realistic trade package for the Kum Bucket? Keep in mind the Warriors are in shambles right now.

Keldon, Sochan, Collins for Kuminga and CP3 works tbh

Ignoring that it was reported last year that the Spurs have no interest in Kuminga, Collins can't be traded until after the season.

I wouldn't give up Keldon in this deal.

[TheGreatYacht]

Ignoring that it was reported last year that the Spurs have no interest in Kuminga, Collins can't be traded until after the season.

I wouldn't give up Keldon in this deal.
Fuck. What a colossal monstrosity that Collins contract is.

[spurraider21]

What would be a realistic trade package for the Kum Bucket? Keep in mind the Warriors are in shambles right now.

Keldon, Sochan, Collins for Kuminga and CP3 works tbh
warriors want to hold CP3 and waive him since his contract isnt guaranteed. that was the whole point of the poole trade. doubt they want to absorb long term contracts in exchange for CP3's expiring

dno what it would take for kuminga but id give the hornets pick, salary filler, and another SRP and not blink.

[CGD]

We're not going to help the Knicks for free. Fuck them.
Hayes and Fournier are both garbage, but so are Osman and McDermott.
Useless trade.


Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1743325699350401078

(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1743325699350401078)After sitting the final 18 minutes of Nuggets loss, Warriors forward Jonathan Kuminga has lost faith in Steve Kerr and no longer believes that Kerr will allow him to reach his full potential, sources say.

Haven't seen enough of him, but would definitely be an upgrade over Sochan and they can't ask for too much.

We’re not helping NYK for free, they’re getting Bobdonovic from DET to upgrade the Fournier position.

[mo7888]

I know it is early, but how do you see your tiers comparing with the same tiers from previous drafts (the Sochan draft for example)?

Every draft is different of course. The 2022 draft had a really solid Tier 1, for example (and I still believe that to be true, I think they entire first tier are still going to be solid. Ivey just needs a different situation). Whereas, 2023 is looking like it truly was a 1-man tier-1 and then a big drop off to a Tier 2 (and I do think it's a Tier 2, because I would rank all of Scoot, Miller, Thompsons below any of the 2022 T1).

From my perspective, this draft's T1 is looking like a T2 in any other draft. I'm actually a little bummed that this is the year we might have two top-10 picks.

This one is weaker. For instance, the Sochan drafts top 9 would be about equal to the top 3 in this one, by that i mean there was a significant drop-off after #9 in that draft, and the drop-off here is after #3. The top 3 in the Sochan draft would all be higher than anyone in this draft.

[CGD]

What would be a realistic trade package for the Kum Bucket? Keep in mind the Warriors are in shambles right now.

Keldon, Sochan, Collins for Kuminga and CP3 works tbh

It’d take Keldon, but beyond that it’s an over pay. They have little leverage: grumpy player while already needing to upgrade the roster to stay relevant. CP3/Mr. Grumpy for Keldon/Doug works salary wise. They could also give up that fake CHA pick if needed

[baseline bum]

Right now the only true starter I see is Wemby and maybe Vassell if I squint my eyes. To me I think that Keldon can make a very good sixth man and Sochan I think can develop into a solid bench guy. Other then these 4 guys everyone else needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. If Blake could just develop a good 3 ball I think he could also be a good bench player who can come in play some great D on some of these fast guards.

Keldon could be starting material if the Spurs had competent defenders at the 1 and 4 so they could hide him but next to bums like Sochan and Branham can't have a third trash defender.

[baseline bum]

warriors want to hold CP3 and waive him since his contract isnt guaranteed. that was the whole point of the poole trade. doubt they want to absorb long term contracts in exchange for CP3's expiring

dno what it would take for kuminga but id give the hornets pick, salary filler, and another SRP and not blink.

Yeah I'd happily give nothing for Kuminga too :lol

[freetiago]

Raptors pick this year+filler for Kuminga

[spurraider21]

Yeah I'd happily give nothing for Kuminga too :lol
shhh dont tell them

[CGD]

Raptors pick this year+filler for Kuminga

They need a player back. Basically it comes down to what team can come up with the best offer for CP3/Kuminga (~37M), which honestly they were probably already contemplating with their middling start. Kuminga basically just hurt their leverage is all.

[BacktoBasics]

Word last year (reported by timvp) was the Spurs had zero interest in Kuminga.

He has a bad attitude and questionable work ethic.

[baseline bum]

Raptors pick this year+filler for Kuminga

Nah I wouldn't pay that much. Kuminga's too poor a shooter to start, he'd be energy off the bench.

[TheGreatYacht]

Malaki Branham, YOU are a Golden State Warrior!

1743333867191484670

[spurraider21]

warriors vets (outside of steph) are falling apart and their young ascending players want out

what a wreck

[TheGreatYacht]

Before all this Warrior drama got leaked, a report from Tim Bontemps came out that league sources expected Siakam to be moved before the trade deadline.

Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, and CoJo is 100% going to be the package.

[mo7888]

I'm not sure anyone is going to offer much for Kuminga at this point unless he's part of a bigger package. Some combination of the Charlotte pick, 2nd's, Sochan, Branham is about what he's worth.

[SpurSpike]

Supposedly Spurs are in advanced trade talks with the Bulls for Colby White. The cost being Devonte Garahm and our 2025 1st round pick.

https://www.hiptoro.com/p/nba-san-antonio-spurs-coby-white-chicago-bulls-trade-deal-on-the-cards/

[Chinook]

I actually like Colby quite a lot, but that 2025 pick is a high price to pay for a role-player.

[Degoat]

That’s baloney, spurs ain’t giving up a first for Colby White lol

[Robz4000]

:lmao

[Seventyniner]

Graham and like 4 seconds is fine, but yeah this guy isn't worth a first.

[baseline bum]

Supposedly Spurs are in advanced trade talks with the Bulls for Colby White. The cost being Devonte Garahm and our 2025 1st round pick.

https://www.hiptoro.com/p/nba-san-antonio-spurs-coby-white-chicago-bulls-trade-deal-on-the-cards/

Coby White's good but no one's giving up a lottery pick in the Cooper Flagg draft for him. Maybe if it has say top 8 protection.

[TimmehC]

They want a first, they can have their own back. But asking for ours is a non-starter. Coby is an average three point shooter, and other than that he's not an upgrade.

[SpurSpike]

Colby white was 7th pick in 2019 draft. If they would take a later 1st round draft pick like 2026 or 2027 I'd do it. We should be starting to contend by then.

[baseline bum]

JFC that hiptoro site has a bunch of blockbuster trades listed as inevitable :lmao

[spurraider21]

Graham and like 4 seconds is fine, but yeah this guy isn't worth a first.
Graham and 4 seconds buys you Josh Richardson

Josh Richardson does not buy you Colby White

[spurraider21]

JFC that hiptoro site has a bunch of blockbuster trades listed as inevitable :lmao
just shut up and enjoy the Brogdon/White backcourt (ignore that graham is getting traded here too)

1742596912509849634

[baseline bum]

Malaki Branham, YOU are a Golden State Warrior!

1743333867191484670

Branham for Moody would be highway robbery :lol

[Seventyniner]

Graham and 4 seconds buys you Josh Richardson

Josh Richardson does not buy you Colby White

How about 7 seconds? Or less?

[baseline bum]

just shut up and enjoy the Brogdon/White backcourt (ignore that graham is getting traded here too)

1742596912509849634

LOL these trade proposals and articles from ChatGPT

[scott]

Who the fuck is Colby White?

If we're give up a 1st round pick (lol at that idea), can we at least get Coby White?

[scott]

Coby is in the first year of a 3/$36MM deal with Chicago. A definite bargain contract for his level of production this season. I could easily see a contending team give up an FRP for him. If the Spurs could get him for Graham + CHI's own pick back, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat. Having a capable starting PG on that contract would do wonders for us, and if we picked a PG in the draft, it would buy that player the time needed to develop properly.

I remembered when we played the Bulls the commentators noted that Coby was 3nd in the league in 3PM this season. Looks like his has fallen back to 8th, but still only 8 3PM behind Desmond Bane who is currently #3 (then a big gap between Luka at #2 and Steph at #1). 39% 3P shooter on high volume, averaging 17ppg this season. Only 5 apg, but the Spurs are 4th in apg this season with Tre being the leading individual assist leader at 4.9 apg. We don't necessarily need our starting PG to be a 8 apg guy. The current starting "PG" (Branham) only averages 2.5 apg.

[BacktoBasics]

Who the fuck is Colby White?

If we're give up a 1st round pick (lol at that idea), can we at least get Coby White?
Dude has a nice cheese though.

[Chinook]

Who the fuck is Colby White?

If we're give up a 1st round pick (lol at that idea), can we at least get Coby White?

I thought it was Coby too. Oh well. Also I'd just assumed it would be the Chicago pick. While that's not great, it's not horrible for a starting or key rotation player. And he's already locked up for a couple of years.

[exstatic]

Word last year (reported by timvp) was the Spurs had zero interest in Kuminga.

I think he’s pretty much a knucklehead, got that JR Smith gene, minus all the talent.

[exstatic]

Raptors pick this year+filler for Kuminga

Fuck that. You don’t know if the Raps pick might turn into a star, but we already know that Kuminga won’t. Keep the pick, and roll the dice.

[exstatic]

Supposedly Spurs are in advanced trade talks with the Bulls for Colby White. The cost being Devonte Garahm and our 2025 1st round pick.

https://www.hiptoro.com/p/nba-san-antonio-spurs-coby-white-chicago-bulls-trade-deal-on-the-cards/

Typical Spurs move. He kills us every time we play them, but won’t do shit once he gets here.

[exstatic]

They want a first, they can have their own back. But asking for ours is a non-starter. Coby is an average three point shooter, and other than that he's not an upgrade.

Coby is shooting .393 on 7.2 acts/game. That is far above average.

[DPG21920]

But you think maybe Detroit will want them?

I'd argue Doug and Cedi offer more value than some SRP's will never use. This team needs veteran leadership, and right now they're about all we have. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both back next year on bargain deals, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (so long as they are pushed further down the rotation).

Correct - they are functional players which DET lacks totally vs SA. We also aren’t nearly as far long in the rebuild as DET and even though we both suck DET obviously feels different than SA in terms of vibe/hope/pressure.

Do I think it happens? Nope. But they seem to be as desperate team and those teams do silly things sometimes.

[mo7888]

According to Shams, Toronto is in advanced discussions with a west conf play-off contender for siakam. Any idra who and more importantly, any way we can participate?

[spurraider21]

According to Shams, Toronto is in advanced discussions with a west conf play-off contender for siakam. Any idra who and more importantly, any way we can participate?
GSW makes the most sense here, though OKC would be disgusting with siakam lol

edit: shams specifically said Kings

[mo7888]

GSW makes the most sense here, though OKC would be disgusting with siakam lol

edit: shams specifically said Kings

I didn't hear tbe 'kings' part...hmm

[spurraider21]

what can kings even offer though? Huerter and Harrison Barnes? malik monk? none of that makes sense. they can agree with ATL to lift protections on the Huerter pick so they can offer 26/28/30, but raptors seem to want good players and not picks, seeing how they handled Anunoby

not sure the kings package makes much sense for the raptors. could be trying to goad the warriors into doing something with their disgruntled young guys

[mo7888]

what can kings even offer though? Huerter and Harrison Barnes? malik monk? none of that makes sense. they can agree with ATL to lift protections on the Huerter pick so they can offer 26/28/30, but raptors seem to want good players and not picks, seeing how they handled Anunoby

not sure the kings package makes much sense for the raptors. could be trying to goad the warriors into doing something with their disgruntled young guys

And would they give 3 1st's for a rental?

[spurraider21]

And would they give 3 1st's for a rental?
not necessarily but maybe raptors would want 2, or want one in 26 instead of waiting till 28. either way, doesnt seem like sacto can offer anything that makes sense.

[DPG21920]

What would yall feel about kicking tires on trading for Lauri to pair with Wemby? Let say it cost Graham + Branham + CHI first + TOR first + CHA pick + 2 2nds (something in that mold - dont get too caught up in every minor detail here)

[spurraider21]

What would yall feel about kicking tires on trading for Lauri to pair with Wemby? Let say it cost Graham + Branham + CHI first + TOR first + CHA pick + 2 2nds (something in that mold - dont get too caught up in every minor detail here)
that offer? without blinking

for what i think it would actually take to pry him? i dont think it will be worth. our roster has way too many holes. we have like 6 nba caliber players right now, and 2 starting caliber guys.

if there was a team that could justify making a huge offer, its OKC

[scott]

I think Lauri would be a great addition to this team (but I don't think you're even sniffing him with the deal DPG threw out there). Let's say you could somehow add Coby White and Lauri to the squad without giving up Keldon or 24 or 25 draft picks. All of a sudden your 2024 opening day roster could look like this:

White/Draft Pick PG/Tre
Vassell/?/
Draft Pick/Keldon/
Lauri/Sochan
Wemby/Collins/Bassey/Barlow

Assuming you use the TOR pick on a developmental PG, you could use our pick on any of the other top non-PGs. I think this looks like a team ready to contend for a play-in spot while your rookies develop and you have two more picks in 2025 to add. Maybe you get a Gordon Hayward to start at the 3 and you draft a Walter to backup Devin.

I'd also be hesitant to deal with Ainge, just because I think he would embarrass our FO in a deal :lol It will probably take a DJM-like haul (or better) to get Lauri.

Lauri's DRTG has taken a hit in Utah (but DRTG is down across the board in the NBA as the average ORTG continues to increase), but he was a pretty good defender in CHI, usually around a 110-113 (for reference, Wemby is a 110 - Gobert is the top starter in the NBA this season with a 105). He definitely isn't going to turn our defense around, but he is a good rebounder which we could use.

His ORTG is off the charts though at a 129 this season (Halliburton is a 135, to give you an idea).

[vy65]

The question with Lauri is timeline. He’s 26 and likely will be on the wrong side of 30 once Wemby is 24. Do you hold him as a bridge piece or see him as a long term one?

[spurraider21]

The question with Lauri is timeline. He’s 26 and likely will be on the wrong side of 30 once Wemby is 24. Do you hold him as a bridge piece or see him as a long term one?
his game should age fine tbh, its not really timeline that bothers me, so much as whether we are in a position to push the chips in with a very incomplete roster

[mo7888]

not necessarily but maybe raptors would want 2, or want one in 26 instead of waiting till 28. either way, doesnt seem like sacto can offer anything that makes sense.

Kings just pulled out of the Siakam deal...

[spurraider21]

Kings just pulled out of the Siakam deal...
if they werent including keegan murray in the deal they werent serious contenders for siakam anyway. my guess is toronto made that clear and sacto immediately backed off

i think gsw will make a play

[Joseph Kony]

What would yall feel about kicking tires on trading for Lauri to pair with Wemby? Let say it cost Graham + Branham + CHI first + TOR first + CHA pick + 2 2nds (something in that mold - dont get too caught up in every minor detail here)
I'd do that all day long. Graham/Branham are obviously expendable, those protected 1sts arent super valuable and Lauri is better now than whatever pick we might get from TOR will likely ever be.

[SpursBills]

What would yall feel about kicking tires on trading for Lauri to pair with Wemby? Let say it cost Graham + Branham + CHI first + TOR first + CHA pick + 2 2nds (something in that mold - dont get too caught up in every minor detail here)

Even people who hate Lauri do that trade. Realistically though it probably costs
2024 SA 1st/2026 SA 1st with ATL swap/ 2025 ATL 1st / 2025 SA pick swap / 2028 SA 1st and a non-Vassell young player +/- a couple second rounders unless Ainge has a backroom deal to tank for the next great white hope Cooper Flagg in 2025.

[vy65]

Even people who hate Lauri do that trade. Realistically though it probably costs
2024 SA 1st/2026 SA 1st with ATL swap/ 2025 ATL 1st / 2025 SA pick swap / 2028 SA 1st and a non-Vassell young player +/- a couple second rounders unless Ainge has a backroom deal to tank for the next great white hope Cooper Flagg in 2025.

No way in hell I do that trade.

I’d do: a) one of Vassell or Keldon b) one of the two 2024 FRPs c) one of Branham or Wesley and d) any number of the SRP, and/or McDermott, Graham, and Cedi

[baseline bum]

I think he’s pretty much a knucklehead, got that JR Smith gene, minus all the talent.

Though the Spurs traded Brent Barry for JR Smith and had it killed by the league for being a minute or two late.

[mo7888]

Even people who hate Lauri do that trade. Realistically though it probably costs
2024 SA 1st/2026 SA 1st with ATL swap/ 2025 ATL 1st / 2025 SA pick swap / 2028 SA 1st and a non-Vassell young player +/- a couple second rounders unless Ainge has a backroom deal to tank for the next great white hope Cooper Flagg in 2025.

Nobody would offer that much for Lauri.. We'd be competing with ourselves.

[SpursBills]

Nobody would offer that much for Lauri.. We'd be competing with ourselves.

You're right, nobody is offering that much for Lauri. Spurs would be dumb as hell to do that trade. Which is why Lauri almost certainly isn't getting traded. Ainge doesn't trade with people unless he's fleecing you and he has no reason to trade Lauri. I'm just telling you what it would probably take to get him.

[Seventyniner]

I just watched this and imo it's a good breakdown of the Spurs present and future situation.

TgGuoGx7kFI



The Spurs are tanking, e.g. not playing Jones/Wemby (or Jones/Vassell/Wemby) nearly as much as they would if they were trying to win
But they're taking a patient, long-term approach as opposed to the Mavs with Doncic
Not sure how much this guy watches the Spurs; he called Keldon a defensive-minded wing...
He lists Wiggins as a potential trade target, which is intriguing; his scenario has the Warriors trading him to the Spurs in a Siakam deal with the Spurs sending filler and draft assets to the Raptors (he assumes the Raptors won't want Wiggins who has been pretty bad this season)
Though imo the offseason is another time this could happen because the Warriors will be way into the tax if they re-sign Klay to a big deal and Wiggins might be expendable (his salary is 26M/28/30 for the next three years after this one)

[vy65]

No way in hell I do that trade.

I’d do: a) one of Vassell or Keldon b) one of the two 2024 FRPs c) one of Branham or Wesley and d) any number of the SRP, and/or McDermott, Graham, and Cedi

Even this might be an overpay considering that Lauri isn’t a great fit with Wemby. I’d think another big in the RWIII/Hartenstein mold would be much better. You want a rebounder with good passing alongside Wemby. Lauri is a billionaire’s Zach Collins.

[vy65]

….

[mo7888]

You're right, nobody is offering that much for Lauri. Spurs would be dumb as hell to do that trade. Which is why Lauri almost certainly isn't getting traded. Ainge doesn't trade with people unless he's fleecing you and he has no reason to trade Lauri. I'm just telling you what it would probably take to get him.

Has Ainge really fleeced anybody since he's been in Utah? That's not a 'gotcha' question... I just don't remember anything there being that one sidand he's made trades..

[mo7888]

You're right, nobody is offering that much for Lauri. Spurs would be dumb as hell to do that trade. Which is why Lauri almost certainly isn't getting traded. Ainge doesn't trade with people unless he's fleecing you and he has no reason to trade Lauri. I'm just telling you what it would probably take to get him.

Has Ainge really fleeced anybody since he's been in Utah? That's not a 'gotcha' question... I just don't remember anything there being that one sidand he's made trades..

[scott]

Even this might be an overpay considering that Lauri isn’t a great fit with Wemby. I’d think another big in the RWIII/Hartenstein mold would be much better. You want a rebounder with good passing alongside Wemby. Lauri is a billionaire’s Zach Collins.

It looks like Lauri is a pretty good rebounder. Ranks #40 in the league with a 14.0% TRB%, and he is slightly better on the offensive side, ranking #38 (Victor ranks #12 in TRB% at 18.6%, for reference. #2 at DRB%, and #35 at ORB%). Lauri isn't Hartenstein good (he is top 20), but he'd be a big improvement over Sochan (#66) or Collins (#50)

[scott]

Has Ainge really fleeced anybody since he's been in Utah? That's not a 'gotcha' question... I just don't remember anything there being that one sidand he's made trades..

The narrative around the Gobert trade was definitely that Ainge fleeced Minny (ESPN gave the Wolves a D and Utah an A for that trade) and he definitely got a haul for Dono, though the consensus seemed to favor Cleveland more in that deal, but especially given the way Lauri has played I'd say Utah won that deal too.

[scott]

One more thing to add about Lauri in regard to rebounding... he is tied with Chet in TRB%.

[mo7888]

The narrative around the Gobert trade was definitely that Ainge fleeced Minny (ESPN gave the Wolves a D and Utah an A for that trade) and he definitely got a haul for Dono, though the consensus seemed to favor Cleveland more in that deal, but especially given the way Lauri has played I'd say Utah won that deal too.

I don't think Minnesota would undo that trade if they had the opportunity...but that was probably the narrative at the time..

[CorrectCrusader]

What would yall feel about kicking tires on trading for Lauri to pair with Wemby? Let say it cost Graham + Branham + CHI first + TOR first + CHA pick + 2 2nds (something in that mold - dont get too caught up in every minor detail here)

Zero chance he is that cheap.

[vy65]

I just watched this and imo it's a good breakdown of the Spurs present and future situation.

TgGuoGx7kFI



The Spurs are tanking, e.g. not playing Jones/Wemby (or Jones/Vassell/Wemby) nearly as much as they would if they were trying to win
But they're taking a patient, long-term approach as opposed to the Mavs with Doncic
Not sure how much this guy watches the Spurs; he called Keldon a defensive-minded wing...
He lists Wiggins as a potential trade target, which is intriguing; his scenario has the Warriors trading him to the Spurs in a Siakam deal with the Spurs sending filler and draft assets to the Raptors (he assumes the Raptors won't want Wiggins who has been pretty bad this season)
Though imo the offseason is another time this could happen because the Warriors will be way into the tax if they re-sign Klay to a big deal and Wiggins might be expendable (his salary is 26M/28/30 for the next three years after this one)


His mock draft is terrible - had us taking Collier and Clingan while missing out on Rissacher, Matas, and Dillingham. Don’t think he’s all that smart.

[SpursBills]

Has Ainge really fleeced anybody since he's been in Utah? That's not a 'gotcha' question... I just don't remember anything there being that one sidand he's made trades..

I think the Gobert trade looks better this season as the T wolves are doing well, but it remains to be seen how they do moving forward as they don't have a conceivable way of keeping the team together due to the luxury tax. The mitchell trade certainly is looking better and better as mitchell is getting ready to leave cleveland and mobley has not shown the growth that was expected of him, especially offensively so getting Lauri + 3 unprotecteds from a bad franchise is going to look really good moving forward. In both scenarios he at minimum got an excellent return for each guy. My point is ultimately Lauri is worth a lot more to Utah than he is to the Spurs so in order to try and trade for him the Spurs are going to have to overpay. Since the Spurs don't really want to do that and Danny has no reason to trade Lauri, it's not a deal that's worth exploring for either party.

[vy65]

It looks like Lauri is a pretty good rebounder. Ranks #40 in the league with a 14.0% TRB%, and he is slightly better on the offensive side, ranking #38 (Victor ranks #12 in TRB% at 18.6%, for reference. #2 at DRB%, and #35 at ORB%). Lauri isn't Hartenstein good (he is top 20), but he'd be a big improvement over Sochan (#66) or Collins (#50)

Good stuff. The more I think about it, the more I like the potential for of Sarr with Wemby compared to someone like Lauri. Those two have the potential to be a modern day twin towers. Defense in abundance, but both could operate with space and not clog up the lane.

[exstatic]

Even people who hate Lauri do that trade. Realistically though it probably costs
2024 SA 1st/2026 SA 1st with ATL swap/ 2025 ATL 1st / 2025 SA pick swap / 2028 SA 1st and a non-Vassell young player +/- a couple second rounders unless Ainge has a backroom deal to tank for the next great white hope Cooper Flagg in 2025.

I would hunt down BrianWright myself if he did that deal. That’s more than BKN got for Durant.

[exstatic]

Though the Spurs traded Brent Barry for JR Smith and had it killed by the league for being a minute or two late.

The money was slightly off, and I remember hearing that the ATL GM at the time wouldn’t pick up RCs call to be a 3rd party, and the clock expired.

[mo7888]

I would hunt down BrianWright myself if he did that deal. That’s more than BKN got for Durant.

I'll drive...

[spurraider21]

Even people who hate Lauri do that trade. Realistically though it probably costs
2024 SA 1st/2026 SA 1st with ATL swap/ 2025 ATL 1st / 2025 SA pick swap / 2028 SA 1st and a non-Vassell young player +/- a couple second rounders unless Ainge has a backroom deal to tank for the next great white hope Cooper Flagg in 2025.
so you think the price for Lauri is...

4 first round picks (spurs 24/26/28 + hawks 25) + 2 first round swaps? (25 spurs and 26 hawks) in addition to a young player + multiple SRPs?

i know Ainge is a shark but even he wouldnt think thats the ask...

[SpursBills]

so you think the price for Lauri is...

4 first round picks (spurs 24/26/28) + 2 first round swaps? (2025 spurs and 2026 hawks) in addition to a young player + multiple SRPs?

i know Ainge is a shark but even he wouldnt think thats the ask...

Maybe I'm not communicating this right. Yes, I think that's Ainge's price for Lauri. Is Lauri worth anything near that much? Of course not. Realistically, he's worth probably 2 unprotected 1st rounders and a decent young prospect. But Ainge has no reason to trade Lauri and has stated that he intends to build around him, so you have to blow him away with an offer. Only team that is willing to come close to that is probably OKC, and that's why Lauri isn't getting traded.

[Joseph Kony]

Kinda funny but also kinda sad that Hawks are offering up Murray already :lol

[exstatic]

Kinda funny but also kinda sad that Hawks are offering up Murray already :lol

I’m glad they made the deal, and filled our draft coffers, but it was badly conceived on their part.

[spurraider21]

that video was a decent enough primer if somebody wasnt familiar with the spurs situation. with that said... the trade scenarios were pretty bizarre to me. ivey is the only one there with appeal. and the mock draft was gross.

[spurraider21]

Kinda funny but also kinda sad that Hawks are offering up Murray already :lol
i feel sad for murray lol. he signed an extension with them and turned down big money, all in the name of loyalty, and now he's getting stung

send him home :cry

[Joseph Kony]

i feel sad for murray lol. he signed an extension with them and turned down big money, all in the name of loyalty, and now he's getting stung

send him home :cry

can't wait to see him shitting on the Hawks on his instagram after he gets traded :lol

[objective]

Re: Coby White; I think he was a restricted free agent who signed for cheap: meaning if Brian Wright was interested in him the Spurs probably could have had him for Zach Collins money

So I don't see any trade even possible, setting aside how happy the Bulls are to have him and his

[exstatic]

Re: Coby White; I think he was a restricted free agent who signed for cheap: meaning if Brian Wright was interested in him the Spurs probably could have had him for Zach Collins money

So I don't see any trade even possible, setting aside how happy the Bulls are to have him and his

Restricted FAs never come cheap to a different team, unless there’s some kind of issue. If he signs a friendly offer sheet with us, the Bulls simply match.

[CGD]

Re: Coby White; I think he was a restricted free agent who signed for cheap: meaning if Brian Wright was interested in him the Spurs probably could have had him for Zach Collins money

So I don't see any trade even possible, setting aside how happy the Bulls are to have him and his

Yeah he signed a 3 year deal over the summer. $40M/3y, which is looking like a bargain now. No way Chicago moves him now. Silly “rumor”

[TD 21]

Not every team is ok with losing so much even if it’s sub optimal asset wise. We will see if DET makes any trades in this mold or not

Right and that's why you hear prominent players like Siakam, Anunoby, Harris, Bridges, etc. who they're expected to pursue either now or in the off season.

Not bit players, which they already have.

[DPG21920]

Right and that's why you hear prominent players like Siakam, Anunoby, Harris, Bridges, etc. who they're expected to pursue either now or in the off season.

Not bit players, which they already have.

Doug would be a top 7 player on their team right now. Cedi too. Sure, they may want to swing for more, but will they be able to if teams know they are desperate? Going this route is cheaper (2nd rounders) and you get to salvage locker room some and maybe get some confidence for the younger guys with better lineups/shooting etc..

Who knows.

[DPG21920]

That TOR pick is looking like a top 7-10 pick. That is a very valuable pick IMO.

So if you’re giving that up and the CHI pick looks like a decent bet to convey too IMO…that’s 2 lottery picks.

Maybe add in one more future first and that’s 3 firsts including two that look lottery and one for sure in the TOR pick.

I think those 3 get it done. Now, what players might that take too? That’s where it gets tricky. If they want expiring deals no problem. If they want Sochan or Keldon? Different story.

[mo7888]

That TOR pick is looking like a top 7-10 pick. That is a very valuable pick IMO.

So if you’re giving that up and the CHI pick looks like a decent bet to convey too IMO…that’s 2 lottery picks.

Maybe add in one more future first and that’s 3 firsts including two that look lottery and one for sure in the TOR pick.

I think those 3 get it done. Now, what players might that take too? That’s where it gets tricky. If they want expiring deals no problem. If they want Sochan or Keldon? Different story.

Who are we talking about for that package? White, Bridges, Siakam? Etc

[Harry Callahan]

I don't know if citing precedent really matters with Wemby regarding future decisions-- he's a 19 year old who said in a postgame interview that he didn't care for Las Vegas, and that the city struck him as "the closest thing on Earth to a dystopia." That's not something the typical 19 year old basketball prodigy says.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/spurs-victor-wembanyama-slams-las-vegas-as-dystopia/#:~:text=Wembanyama%20did%20have%20fond%20memories ,the%20biggest%20fan%20of%20Vegas.%22

Wemby is not wrong about Vegas - it is a crummy city IMO. Vegas has a certain appeal to visitors, but it would be one of last places in the world I would want to live.

Seattle had the opportunity to retain the Supersonics - they did not. Living in Seattle in the fall and winter would be great - cold, rainy, and generally depressing overall.

The SAS ownership group understands San Antonio will never get a second chance at a major league team - I'm hopeful they act accordingly.

BTW - a large number of the ex-Spurs stay in San Antonio, FWIW.

[TD 21]

Doug would be a top 7 player on their team right now. Cedi too. Sure, they may want to swing for more, but will they be able to if teams know they are desperate? Going this route is cheaper (2nd rounders) and you get to salvage locker room some and maybe get some confidence for the younger guys with better lineups/shooting etc..

Who knows.

No, they wouldn't. They have Livers and Knox to play the backup stretch forward role behind Bogdanovic. Again, not great, but not worthwhile expending any asset on a veteran expiring for.

They have a number of big expiring contracts and up coming cap space and if they're foolish enough to punt this early on Ivey, he can be the linchpin of a package for a pseudo star like LaVine.

[mo7888]

Going back to Coby White for a minute. Are they trying to bottom out or cut salary? What's their motivation to move him? Would absorbing bad salary instead of 1st get it done? Say sending them KJ + expiring salary for Coby + absorbing Lonzo's deal?

[CGD]

Going back to Coby White for a minute. Are they trying to bottom out or cut salary? What's their motivation to move him? Would absorbing bad salary instead of 1st get it done? Say sending them KJ + expiring salary for Coby + absorbing Lonzo's deal?

That’s not a serious rumor. It was from one of those websites churns AI generated trade proposals.

[mo7888]

That’s not a serious rumor. It was from one of those websites churns AI generated trade proposals.

Ahhh...gotcha..

[mo7888]

How desperate are the Lakers getting as we approach the deadline? That may be our best opportunity to work into a 3 way deal and get an asset or two.

[baseline bum]

Ahhh...gotcha..

Yeah that site had about 15 blockbuster trades that were about to happen :lol

[Mr. Body]

How desperate are the Lakers getting as we approach the deadline? That may be our best opportunity to work into a 3 way deal and get an asset or two.

It's gonna be fascinating to see. They don't have anything left to trade, do they? I can see going for DDR or LaVine from Chicago but they're full of bad players and have no picks.

[mo7888]

It's gonna be fascinating to see. They don't have anything left to trade, do they? I can see going for DDR or LaVine from Chicago but they're full of bad players and have no picks.

That's my thoughts too... Will they get desperate enough to go get Lavine... i can't imagine it will cost much, but, as you said, LA has no trade assets they'd include.... They could package Russell and Reaves with some salary like Prince. I'd do it if i were Chicago just to get rid of Lavine, but if I'm them im looking for a 3rd or 4th team to facilitate a rebuild.

[BacktoBasics]

Looks like the Nets aren’t gonna put it together this season. Mikal Bridges is having a down year and not playing great lately. He’s a guy who I think would fit well here. I’d be interested in what they’d want for him. Cam Johnson to a lesser extent. Dinwiddie is looking worse but kinda sorta would fill a need but his shooting percentage is pretty bad. Nets could be selling soon.