Quickley and Anunoby both traded, fuck you Brian Wrong

[baseline bum]

Should have gone out and gotten one of these guys as they were both on the trade block and both fit perfectly in desperately needed roles on this team. Instead the Knicks and Raptors traded them for each other.

[baseline bum]

1741146251532603871

[TrainOfThought5]

Depending on what Brian thinks of his targets in the draft, and what those teams wanted from us, it might not have been worth it. To be really honest, most of our starters will make good bench players. No need to jettison them haphazardly if the upgrades isn’t far and away better than what we’ll draft in 8 months or so.

[Spurs Homer]

:pop:

"We refused to give up Branham and Wesley for those guys because of CHARACTER!"

[Maddog]

Well
Let's see how long Quickley stays on the raptors
Interesting trade.

[exstatic]

They’re both rentals.

[Kurgan]

Did you really expect Wright to make any moves to improve the team? He's never been good in any aspect of running a front office outside of accumulating picks. And then when it comes time to use the picks, he drafts no talent bums.

[baseline bum]

They’re both rentals.

I thought there wasn't a lot of capspace out there this year? You'd have Bird Rights and not a lot of competition to keep them.

[LeBowen]

I thought there wasn't a lot of capspace out there this year? You'd have Bird Rights and not a lot of competition to keep them.

OG is going to ask for at least 30 a year, not worth the money.
Quickley will be in 20-25 range and I think Spurs should've tried to trade for him.
Idk, maybe they don't want to deal with the Knicks after the Morris fiasco.

[BacktoBasics]

No way I give OG 30 million. Anymore than Reaves being worth that. Reaves isn’t having that bad a season either.

[couchman]

Both guys will be signed to relatively big deals for $25-30million per year.
Only Quickley would have been worth it for the Spurs.
We need to put our money towards Wemby and a playmaker (that we don’t have yet)

[scott]

They’re both rentals.

Quickly won't be a rental. While NYK might not have might not have matched him, TOR will. TOR likely views him the same way as everyone else does, and now they've got a clear path toward him being a key part of their future.

[baseline bum]

No way I give OG 30 million. Anymore than Reaves being worth that. Reaves isn’t having that bad a season either.

I would. Better than having jack of no trades Sochan as your main perimeter defender.

[CGD]

I think it’s a fair and balanced trade actually. Raptors basically get cost controlled RJ (Canadian) to replace OG’s production on offense, and a chance to convince Quickley to stay to be their PG of the future along with the ability to match any offer for him if they want to lock him up long term.

Knicks get a player at a position of need, and more importantly his Bird Rights. Quick look at the cap space situation this summer, and it’s not clear which team would have the max level money OG is looking for. This allows the Knicks to basically make the biggest offer.

Win-Win

[rascal]

I think it’s a fair and balanced trade actually. Raptors basically get cost controlled RJ (Canadian) to replace OG’s production on offense, and a chance to convince Quickley to stay to be their PG of the future along with the ability to match any offer for him if they want to lock him up long term.

Knicks get a player at a position of need, and more importantly his Bird Rights. Quick look at the cap space situation this summer, and it’s not clear which team would have the max level money OG is looking for. This allows the Knicks to basically make the biggest offer.

Win-Win

Agree

Neither team would be interested in what the Spurs had to offer unless they unloaded a good portion of their first round picks and no way the spurs will consider doing that.

[mo7888]

Both teams wanted players instead of picks so we didn't really have the ammo to get anything done. I think this trade helps the Toronto pick convey this year though. I really like it for both teams.

[R. DeMurre]

It'd be interesting to know what kind of talks the Knicks had beforehand with Anunoby. He'll be an unrestricted free agent this summer, and if he were to go elsewhere, the Knicks would be in a bad position, having lost two important rotation players for nothing. Quickley is restricted, so Toronto at least has the option of matching. Smart trade for the Raptors... hell, I think IQ for OG would've been fair, so to get an extra player and a draft pick for a guy that everyone was sure to be leaving is an impressive haul.

[spurraider21]

It'd be interesting to know what kind of talks the Knicks had beforehand with Anunoby. He'll be an unrestricted free agent this summer, and if he were to go elsewhere, they Knicks would be in a bad position, having lost two important rotation players for nothing. Quickley is restricted, so Toronto at least has the option of matching. Smart trade for the Raptors... hell, I think IQ for OG would've been fair, so to get an extra player and a draft pick for a guy that everyone was sure to be leaving is an impressive haul.
It’s their fault for not trading OG last year when he had more value instead of them being buyers at the deadline for no reason

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It'd be interesting to know what kind of talks the Knicks had beforehand with Anunoby. He'll be an unrestricted free agent this summer, and if he were to go elsewhere, they Knicks would be in a bad position, having lost two important rotation players for nothing. Quickley is restricted, so Toronto at least has the option of matching. Smart trade for the Raptors... hell, I think IQ for OG would've been fair, so to get an extra player and a draft pick for a guy that everyone was sure to be leaving is an impressive haul.

I doubt any party of the trade saw RJ Barrett and his 4/110 contract as a positive asset. If anything, Toronto probably asked for picks because they were taking on that long term money for a player who only plays well against the Spurs.

[R. DeMurre]

It’s their fault for not trading OG last year when he had more value instead of them being buyers at the deadline for no reason


I kinda feel the same about KJ, to be honest-- last summer he was still a young energy guy averaging 22 ppg. Now he's scoring 17 a game and so bad defensively that he can't even be hidden next to VW. I think his trade value is way down.

[poopbox]

Pretty sure we don't have the caliber of players to trade for either of these guys tbh :lol

[TD 21]

Anunoby is supposedly willing to take a discount to play in New York and the Craptors clearly don't want to re-build, so even if the Spurs overpaid in draft equity for Quickley, it's doubtful the Knicks, who've been chasing Anunoby for a year, would have done it because it'd have less appeal to the Craptors.

[z0sa]

Sucks losing on Quickley.

Anunoby is definitely the better player of the two and it would have been AMAZING having him here, but he's not who we need right now. Sochan would have lost all of his touches and would 100% have been a bust. There's a chance he's similarly good relative to Anunoby 3 years from now and he'll be a lot younger and probably cheaper.

[baseline bum]

Sucks losing on Quickley.

Anunoby is definitely the better player of the two and it would have been AMAZING having him here, but he's not who we need right now. Sochan would have lost all of his touches and would 100% have been a bust. There's a chance he's similarly good relative to Anunoby 3 years from now and he'll be a lot younger and probably cheaper.

Sochan is a bust and hasn't earned any touches. I'd give him up in a second if it would have moved the needle an inch to get Anunoby.

[Harry Callahan]

The Spurs will have an opportunity to sign unrestricted FAs in the near future now that other players know they can work with VW. It's going to be a destination for at least one or two players who want to be on a team on the upswing. There is no reason to lock into restricted free agents next summer and then not get them due to matching. There may be a single player the Spurs could move at this year's deadline for the right asset (like the JP trade with Toronto), but the 2024 draft might be a more realistic time to make a move to get a veteran player who can positively impact the younger players.

[spurraider21]

The closest thing we have to a Poeltl like asset right now is Keldon

[z0sa]

Sochan is a bust and hasn't earned any touches. I'd give him up in a second if it would have moved the needle an inch to get Anunoby.

The problem is his expiring deal. Sochan gets benched and loses what confidence Pop already hasn't stolen from him - then Anunoby either walks or costs us a ton and I don't think he puts us over the top.

I'd rather trade guys like Sochan/KJ etc for an all-star PG who will stay dude.

[Harry Callahan]

The closest thing we have to a Poeltl like asset right now is Keldon

Agreed. He can also be a helpful player here if he understands his limitations and plays to his strengths. Vassell is a better all around player, but his shot selection must also improve. A place setter for all of these players (VW included) would make a huge difference. That person is definitely not on the roster yet.

[spurraider21]

Sochan is a bust and hasn't earned any touches. I'd give him up in a second if it would have moved the needle an inch to get Anunoby.
Guy who thinks we have no use for Herro because we have Branham

[baseline bum]

The problem is his expiring deal. Sochan gets benched and loses what confidence Pop already hasn't stolen from him - then Anunoby either walks or costs us a ton and I don't think he puts us over the top.

I'd rather trade guys like Sochan/KJ etc for an all-star PG who will stay dude.

Obviously you pay him if you're trading for him. He's a high end defensive player who can shoot the three and would be a legit long term starter to have in place. With the NBA seeking a tripling of their current TV deal in 2025 that $30 million a year might not be too big a deal for a 26 year old defensive ace who can shoot. Sochan is terrible. If you're starting a guy with 10PER he better be Bruce Bowen on defense but Sochan is more Steve Smith.

[Bruno]

I liked Quickley but I guess it's over now. :(

What I truly don't know is what is Spurs rebuilding timetable. Will they start to go after good players through trade and/or free agency in 2024 or will they wait at least until 2025 ?
Even if it isn't what I wish for, I wouldn't be that surprised if Spurs team next season is basically this year team with a couple or rookies from the draft.

[Trainwreck2100]

I thought there wasn't a lot of capspace out there this year? You'd have Bird Rights and not a lot of competition to keep them.

OG's agent is the knick's president's son

[z0sa]

Obviously you pay him if you're trading for him. He's a high end defensive player who can shoot the three and would be a legit long term starter to have in place. With the NBA seeking a tripling of their current TV deal in 2025 that $30 million a year might not be too big a deal for a 26 year old defensive ace who can shoot. Sochan is terrible. If you're starting a guy with 10PER he better be Bruce Bowen on defense but Sochan is more Steve Smith.

Didn't check any advanced stats but for the basics the two aren't too far off from eachother tbh. Anunoby is definitely better right now, yet Sochan averages more rebounds and assists. His 3pt stroke is also improving and while he only attempts it half as much his percentage is about the same rn.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even like Sochan much. I just hate the idea that Sochan could be a similar player for a lot cheaper and probably more loyal. Also we wasted a lottery pick on him if we go another direction this early in his career. Feel like if he improves he'll be good trade fodder or at least a nice role player. If we're making a trade in this situation, I'd have preferred Quickley. This time is about helping Victor grow, Anunoby is a nice piece for someone to go from playoff seed to contender but I'm not so confident he'd help Wemby get touches in the right spots, for instance.

[spurraider21]

Didn't check any advanced stats but for the basics the two aren't too far off from eachother tbh. Anunoby is definitely better right now, yet Sochan averages more rebounds and assists. His 3pt stroke is also improving and while he only attempts it half as much his percentage is about the same rn.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HUg6Ypas42ubkXu/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9525krdxynzllj7hixcaudliaeo9gc9 4qj7pvjpeda8&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Dex]

I liked Quickley but I guess it's over now. :(

What I truly don't know is what is Spurs rebuilding timetable. Will they start to go after good players through trade and/or free agency in 2024 or will they wait at least until 2025 ?
Even if it isn't what I wish for, I wouldn't be that surprised if Spurs team next season is basically this year team with a couple or rookies from the draft.

Don't worry, we will probably get Quickley when he is 35 and a reclamation project.

[z0sa]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HUg6Ypas42ubkXu/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9525krdxynzllj7hixcaudliaeo9gc9 4qj7pvjpeda8&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

i'm confused. were you also talking about me for Herro? I don't even know who that is lol

[Mugen]

They’re both rentals.
Neither will be a rental tbh

[heyheymymy]

OG's agent is the knick's president's son

So it's likely the Knicks have inside info assurances that OG will return.

Interesting that that same agent also represents Brunson. So Knicks have done this before.

Precious Achiuwa and Malachi Flynn also included in the deal reportedly

[heyheymymy]

Also Raptors play Pistons tonight with disorganized roster changes

Good chance for DET to get a W and help SA burrow lower into the bottom of the standings

Which also would pad an L to TOR to help keep the pick top 10 but hopefully not top 6

[The Truth #6]

If we traded for them most people here would turn on them too, eventually, when they voiced frustration on a podcast or whatever. I liked Quickley, don't get me wrong, but most players don't want to play in SA, ever. Is going slow and only drafting players fun? No. But SA is always at a disadvantage as far as keeping established stars happy. It's always going to be an uphill challenge for the Spurs. Tim, Tony, Manu were basically saints and statistical anomalies. Drafting players and committing to them long-term is basically how the FO does it due to all these factors, including having the least cash flush ownership group. And they don't have intrusive retarded ownership, either, which I appreciate. I'd rather have Pop, a basketball person, doing his weird choices than some tech billionaire moron calling the shots. I'm sort of rambling here but regardless the suicidal ideation on this board is understandable, so to speak, but still sort of melodramatic.

[Dejounte]

If we traded for them most people here would turn on them too, eventually, when they voiced frustration on a podcast or whatever. I liked Quickley, don't get me wrong, but most players don't want to play in SA, ever. Is going slow and only drafting players fun? No. But SA is always at a disadvantage as far as keeping established stars happy. It's always going to be an uphill challenge for the Spurs. Tim, Tony, Manu were basically saints and statistical anomalies. Drafting players and committing to them long-term is basically how the FO does it due to all these factors, including having the least cash flush ownership group. And they don't have intrusive retarded ownership, either, which I appreciate. I'd rather have Pop, a basketball person, doing his weird choices than some tech billionaire moron calling the shots. I'm sort of rambling here but regardless the suicidal ideation on this board is understandable, so to speak, but still sort of melodramatic.

https://x.com/iam_johnw/status/1741149353375338849?s=46

OG the kind of move the “any change is good change” crowd loves yet would be silent as hell years later what that exact move turns out to be a very bad one

[rascal]

Also Raptors play Pistons tonight with disorganized roster changes

Good chance for DET to get a W and help SA burrow lower into the bottom of the standings

Which also would pad an L to TOR to help keep the pick top 10 but hopefully not top 6

Pistons going to win

[baseline bum]

Didn't check any advanced stats but for the basics the two aren't too far off from eachother tbh. Anunoby is definitely better right now, yet Sochan averages more rebounds and assists. His 3pt stroke is also improving and while he only attempts it half as much his percentage is about the same rn.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even like Sochan much. I just hate the idea that Sochan could be a similar player for a lot cheaper and probably more loyal. Also we wasted a lottery pick on him if we go another direction this early in his career. Feel like if he improves he'll be good trade fodder or at least a nice role player. If we're making a trade in this situation, I'd have preferred Quickley. This time is about helping Victor grow, Anunoby is a nice piece for someone to go from playoff seed to contender but I'm not so confident he'd help Wemby get touches in the right spots, for instance.

Sochan shot an uncharacteristically high three point percentage in the early season that has reverted back to the mean and Anunoby shoots 2.5x as many threes. Sochan is horrible in defensive FG percentage (bottom third of the league) and he's bottom 20% of the league in defense rating (414 out of 517... Vassell is 257 BTW), just a garbage defender who fails both the eye test and statistical test. Anunoby would help Victor out by being a shooting option to pass out to and by getting stops to let this team run more. Sochan is an anchor around Victor's neck. Just a trash player and a wasted pick.

[baseline bum]

Pistons going to win

They just did lol

[rascal]

They just did lol

They are better with Duren back in the lineup. Wanted Duren over Sochan.

[mo7888]

They are better with Duren back in the lineup. Wanted Duren over Sochan.

Me too... i had Duren #7 on my board and Sochan at #13.. . I feel pretty good about that board..

[vy65]

I liked Quickley but I guess it's over now. :(

What I truly don't know is what is Spurs rebuilding timetable. Will they start to go after good players through trade and/or free agency in 2024 or will they wait at least until 2025 ?
Even if it isn't what I wish for, I wouldn't be that surprised if Spurs team next season is basically this year team with a couple or rookies from the draft.

I really hope you aren’t right about the 2024-2025 team, but I think you are.

[FutureMan]

The Spurs do two things great.

1 - draft generational bigs at #1
2 - build their own guards reguardless of where they are in the draft.

Quickley is good, don’t get me wrong. But it is far likely the Spurs can do better on their own. So yeah, bring on the rookies next year.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs do two things great.

1 - draft generational bigs at #1
2 - build their own guards reguardless of where they are in the draft.

Quickley is good, don’t get me wrong. But it is far likely the Spurs can do better on their own. So yeah, bring on the rookies next year.

Bang up job with Primo, Branham, and Wesley

[baseline bum]

I really hope you aren’t right about the 2024-2025 team, but I think you are.

Internal improvement might get them to 25 wins in 2024-25

[Chinook]

This is such a weird thread. You'd think after that first Portland game the anxiety level of STers would drop back down to a normal level. I can understand wishing the Spurs had made a win-now move during the off-season, though I wasn't in that camp (I wanted the Spurs to aggressive target a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future). It's much harder to rationalize wanting the Spurs to make a trade for either of these guys now that they're 20 games under .500. If you're one of those people who thinks giving touches Wemby needs to be the top focus of the team, Quickley would've been a horrible fit as a score-first PG that shoots outside jumpers way more than he penetrates. While OG could've made some sense earlier in the year, trading anything of value for him now would've been extremely risky.

The only way out with this roster is through at this point. They have to get through this year, get what are hopefully two top-10 picks and go from there. They'll have a whole bunch of future firsts at that point, and they definitely should be using some of those to fill out their rotation. There are a lot of future moves I'd like them to make. But for now, the last two of three games really seem to be what folks should be hoping for -- An occasional win with signs of Victor dominating, the team working together and Pop being engaged spread out within a season of mostly losses. I legit get that the prospect of that might sound horrible to watch, but whatever mentality folks used to get through last year, they should try to call upon that again. If you're not a person who cares about the minutia of the game and instead need to see the big trends, it might be a struggle, because I don't think it's going to get dramatically better. No amount of sniffer or edging is going to change the broad strokes of the year at this point.

[FutureMan]

Bang up job with Primo, Branham, and Wesley

That’s a beyond glass half empty mindset with an extreme outlier too. But fine, let’s say 3/4 picks don’t work out. You just named three so…. Yup bring on next year.

[baseline bum]

That’s a beyond glass half empty mindset with an extreme outlier too. But fine, let’s say 3/4 picks don’t work out. You just named three so…. Yup bring on next year.

Sochan didn't work out either

[baseline bum]

This is such a weird thread. You'd think after that first Portland game the anxiety level of STers would drop back down to a normal level. I can understand wishing the Spurs had made a win-now move during the off-season, though I wasn't in that camp (I wanted the Spurs to aggressive target a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future). It's much harder to rationalize wanting the Spurs to make a trade for either of these guys now that they're 20 games under .500. If you're one of those people who thinks giving touches Wemby needs to be the top focus of the team, Quickley would've been a horrible fit as a score-first PG that shoots outside jumpers way more than he penetrates. While OG could've made some sense earlier in the year, trading anything of value for him now would've been extremely risky.

The only way out with this roster is through at this point. They have to get through this year, get what are hopefully two top-10 picks and go from there. They'll have a whole bunch of future firsts at that point, and they definitely should be using some of those to fill out their rotation. There are a lot of future moves I'd like them to make. But for now, the last two of three games really seem to be what folks should be hoping for -- An occasional win with signs of Victor dominating, the team working together and Pop being engaged spread out within a season of mostly losses. I legit get that the prospect of that might sound horrible to watch, but whatever mentality folks used to get through last year, they should try to call upon that again. If you're not a person who cares about the minutia of the game and instead need to see the big trends, it might be a struggle, because I don't think it's going to get dramatically better. No amount of sniffer or edging is going to change the broad strokes of the year at this point.

Would have been nice to add some talent to this roster since it's Victor, Vassell, and no one.

[Atl Spur]

Sochan didn't work out either

Slow down…..just year two following a decent year 1.

[baseline bum]

Slow down…..just year two following a decent year 1.

He's so bad defensively and even worse offensively.

[FutureMan]

Sochan didn't work out either

It’s debatably too early to call Branham a bust and definitively too early to say that about Sochan.

[scott]

This is such a weird thread. You'd think after that first Portland game the anxiety level of STers would drop back down to a normal level.

You thought that winning our 2nd game in 25 attempts against one of the other worst teams in the league, playing without their 3 best players, would bring folks a level of peace about the direction of this team?


I can understand wishing the Spurs had made a win-now move during the off-season, though I wasn't in that camp (I wanted the Spurs to aggressive target a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future). It's much harder to rationalize wanting the Spurs to make a trade for either of these guys now that they're 20 games under .500. If you're one of those people who thinks giving touches Wemby needs to be the top focus of the team, Quickley would've been a horrible fit as a score-first PG that shoots outside jumpers way more than he penetrates. While OG could've made some sense earlier in the year, trading anything of value for him now would've been extremely risky.

The only way out with this roster is through at this point. They have to get through this year, get what are hopefully two top-10 picks and go from there. They'll have a whole bunch of future firsts at that point, and they definitely should be using some of those to fill out their rotation. There are a lot of future moves I'd like them to make. But for now, the last two of three games really seem to be what folks should be hoping for -- An occasional win with signs of Victor dominating, the team working together and Pop being engaged spread out within a season of mostly losses. I legit get that the prospect of that might sound horrible to watch, but whatever mentality folks used to get through last year, they should try to call upon that again. If you're not a person who cares about the minutia of the game and instead need to see the big trends, it might be a struggle, because I don't think it's going to get dramatically better. No amount of sniffer or edging is going to change the broad strokes of the year at this point.

I wouldn't have advocated for using trade capital for Quickly or OG, but I was interested in them as off-season signings. Now that's off the table. Bummer (I don't quite have the same reaction as BB on this one).

With that said, had we made a trade for Quickly, I wouldn't have viewed it as a "win-now" move, I would had viewed it the same as aggressively targeting a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future: a move to get the PG of the future.

Given that, don't disagree that the path is through at this point. My only difference of opinion would be that the rebuild becomes significantly easier if we can fill one of our holes with a young, yet relatively proven, quantity. What I liked about the idea of Quickly (and kind of like about the idea of maybe bringing DJM back if it came cheap and his attitude was right, which it probably wouldn't and probably won't be) was that it allows us to still take a PG with one of our (hopefully) top-10 picks (ideally the second one) who can play a significant backup role rather than being relied on as a starter. I'd then use the other pick (ideally the first one) to take the best 2/3/4 prospect.

My ideal scenario looked like this:

Quickly/Draft Pick
Vassell/?
Draft Pick/Johnson
Sochan/?
Wemby/Collins

If you could have done this without using draft capital, then you'd still have it all to make a move for a 2nd star. Say it's a two guard who can kick Vassell to the bench, all of a sudden you have a team that is still young but is ready to start the OKC-like march to relevance in Wemby's second season.

But... Quickly is off the board. On to plan B.

[Tyronn Lue]

You thought that winning our 2nd game in 25 attempts against one of the other worst teams in the league, playing without their 3 best players, would bring folks a level of peace about the direction of this team?



I wouldn't have advocated for using trade capital for Quickly or OG, but I was interested in them as off-season signings. Now that's off the table. Bummer (I don't quite have the same reaction as BB on this one).

With that said, had we made a trade for Quickly, I wouldn't have viewed it as a "win-now" move, I would had viewed it the same as aggressively targeting a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future: a move to get the PG of the future.

Given that, don't disagree that the path is through at this point. My only difference of opinion would be that the rebuild becomes significantly easier if we can fill one of our holes with a young, yet relatively proven, quantity. What I liked about the idea of Quickly (and kind of like about the idea of maybe bringing DJM back if it came cheap and his attitude was right, which it probably wouldn't and probably won't be) was that it allows us to still take a PG with one of our (hopefully) top-10 picks (ideally the second one) who can play a significant backup role rather than being relied on as a starter. I'd then use the other pick (ideally the first one) to take the best 2/3/4 prospect.

My ideal scenario looked like this:

Quickly/Draft Pick
Vassell/?
Draft Pick/Johnson
Sochan/?
Wemby/Collins

If you could have done this without using draft capital, then you'd still have it all to make a move for a 2nd star. Say it's a two guard who can kick Vassell to the bench, all of a sudden you have a team that is still young but is ready to start the OKC-like march to relevance in Wemby's second season.

But... Quickly is off the board. On to plan B.
This. Getting better players on the roster so development comes as a team you actually want to keep is much better than putting your generational talent with a group of traffic cones and AAU level court vision/shooting guys. No one says you have to win after you acquire talent to surround Victor, just that this development stage means something. Seems more like a money saving move than a team building move. That's just me though, I don't know shit, admittedly.

[TD 21]

Say it's a two guard who can kick Vassell to the bench, all of a sudden you have a team that is still young but is ready to start the OKC-like march to relevance in Wemby's second season.

But... Quickly is off the board. On to plan B.

Since I've essentially said as much ad nauseam, suffice it to say I was with you until this.

There's no realistic scenario where Vassell will be moving to the bench nor is his game suited for a 6th man role.

There isn't a plan B that is such a theoretical hand in glove fit.

[scott]

This. Getting better players on the roster so development comes as a team you actually want to keep is much better than putting your generational talent with a group of traffic cones and AAU level court vision/shooting guys. No one says you have to win after you acquire talent to surround Victor, just that this development stage means something. Seems more like a money saving move than a team building move. That's just me though, I don't know shit, admittedly.

Yep, this is exactly the point that so many of us are trying to make. Improving the talent level of the team does not equal "win now" moves. Most people aren't looking for those (save those who wanted Dame this offseason - though I love Dame, I was not one of those people). We just want moves that move us forward and maximize every year of Wemby's career. By simply building via top draft picks, we slow the process down and increase a higher degree of risk in the rebuild. Every top talent is 19 these days, not all of them pan out, and the ones that do need years of development.

[scott]

Since I've essentially said as much ad nauseam, suffice it to say I was with you until this.

There's no realistic scenario where Vassell will be moving to the bench nor is his game suited for a 6th man role.

There isn't a plan B that is such a theoretical hand in glove fit.

In that case Devin needs to either start showing significant improvement, or will eventually need to get traded. I don't see him being good enough right now to have his role on a championship caliber team. It works for now, since we are nowhere near that, and there is still time. But not loving it so far these season. For as wet as his jumper has looked at times this season, he appears to be regressing in every other aspect of his game.

[Jordan Jackson]

Sochan didn't work out either
Or Lonnie Walker. But who’s keeping track.

OG is 26 and Quickly is 24. Why are people labelling them win now players?

Anyway - OG was always going to the Knicks. Spurs have nothing the Raptors or Knicks want or need. Well besides Wemby.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Maybe Quickly keeps the Raps out of the bottom six in the draft, in which case I call it a win.

[tbdog]

Isn't it obvious that both teams wanted players and not draft capital. What exactly do you think Brian Wight could have offered that made the Raptors or Knicks better?

[Mal]

Anyway - OG was always going to the Knicks. Spurs have nothing the Raptors or Knicks want or need. Well besides Wemby.

Raptors would love to get their pick back, so they can sell Siakam and do proper tank

[TD 21]

In that case Devin needs to either start showing significant improvement, or will eventually need to get traded. I don't see him being good enough right now to have his role on a championship caliber team. It works for now, since we are nowhere near that, and there is still time. But not loving it so far these season. For as wet as his jumper has looked at times this season, he appears to be regressing in every other aspect of his game.

Nah, he just needs to have his role streamlined offensively, which should naturally happen as Wembanyama develops and they find a lead creator. That should also allow him to devote more energy defensively.

Even as is, he's clearly the only player not named Wembanyama that's good enough to start for a quality team.

Estimated Plus-Minus (EPM) (dunksandthrees.com) (https://dunksandthrees.com/epm)

[exstatic]

Raptors would love to get their pick back, so they can sell Siakam and do proper tank

They’ve never shown any inclination to do a tank, being buyers the last two years, and using OG’s expiring to buy this year. NY had draft assets to send dead contracts instead of Quickley, but that’s not what happened.

[mo7888]

It’s debatably too early to call Branham a bust and definitively too early to say that about Sochan.

Sochan is a bust if you were expecting a starting caliber player.. I don't think that statement is to early...

[cd98]

Well it seems perfectly clear that SA wants to throw this season away to get a high lottery pick and then build the team around Wemby in the offseason. Quickley and Anunoby will be available in the offseason if the Spurs want those guys. I'm fine with them not making any other major trades until the offseason. Anything that immediately improves this roster takes them out of the lotter discussion and the potential to get another "great" player to pair with Wemby for years to come.

Who knows if it is the right decision?!? Only time will tell. But the Spurs will have the money and draft capital to make a play on anything that is available and maybe some players that are "not available."

I think they worry about the Doncic situation where the team improves to quickly in one season that they get stuck in a position where they continually win, but are not true contenders. The Mavs got good so fast that they didn't have years to accumulate assets and now they are forced to rely on Doncic's greatness and a player that may or may not believe the earth is flat. And Kyrie is an unstable player. One Kyrie WTF episode could trigger Doncic pushing for a trade.

[baseline bum]

Well it seems perfectly clear that SA wants to throw this season away to get a high lottery pick and then build the team around Wemby in the offseason. Quickley and Anunoby will be available in the offseason if the Spurs want those guys. I'm fine with them not making any other major trades until the offseason. Anything that immediately improves this roster takes them out of the lotter discussion and the potential to get another "great" player to pair with Wemby for years to come.

Who knows if it is the right decision?!? Only time will tell. But the Spurs will have the money and draft capital to make a play on anything that is available and maybe some players that are "not available."

I think they worry about the Doncic situation where the team improves to quickly in one season that they get stuck in a position where they continually win, but are not true contenders. The Mavs got good so fast that they didn't have years to accumulate assets and now they are forced to rely on Doncic's greatness and a player that may or may not believe the earth is flat. And Kyrie is an unstable player. One Kyrie WTF episode could trigger Doncic pushing for a trade.

Quickley is a RFA so BWrong would have to throw an enormous overpay, say a max contract, to get Toronto to not match. Anunoby is already making it clear he's reupping on the Knicks. They're going to run the same tired ass team out again next year with a couple of rookies so I guess let's hope that 14% chance for Cooper Flagg hits with a third terrible season.

[cd98]

Quickley is a RFA so BWrong would have to throw an enormous overpay, say a max contract, to get Toronto to not match. Anunoby is already making it clear he's reupping on the Knicks. They're going to run the same tired ass team out again next year with a couple of rookies so I guess let's hope that 14% chance for Cooper Flagg hits with a third terrible season.

Eh, there are always players that will become available. It's not like Anunoby was leading the Raptors to the playoffs and if you tell me that the best guard available for the next three years is Quickley, then I think I'd take my 14% chance of getting Cooper Flagg.

[Chinook]

You thought that winning our 2nd game in 25 attempts against one of the other worst teams in the league, playing without their 3 best players, would bring folks a level of peace about the direction of this team?

...

I wouldn't have advocated for using trade capital for Quickly or OG, but I was interested in them as off-season signings. Now that's off the table. Bummer (I don't quite have the same reaction as BB on this one).

...

My ideal scenario looked like this:

Quickly/Draft Pick
Vassell/?
Draft Pick/Johnson
Sochan/?
Wemby/Collins

If you could have done this without using draft capital, then you'd still have it all to make a move for a 2nd star. Say it's a two guard who can kick Vassell to the bench, all of a sudden you have a team that is still young but is ready to start the OKC-like march to relevance in Wemby's second season.

But... Quickly is off the board. On to plan B.

Issue is, Quickley isn't a good fit. He's a worse fit than Keldon is. So any scenario that involves the Spurs paying Quickley market value on a long-term deal isn't a great use of resources. It's not enough to justify any acquisition with "I want to add talent to the team". There are plenty of ways to inappropriately add talent that doesn't help the team's long-term position. Trading for a pick to draft a PG and have him on a rookie salary for four years is not at all the same thing as trading for a young vet PG in order to pay substantial money to. I get that you weren't pushing for the Spurs to trade for Quickley, but practically speaking, he might not have been a realistic free-agent target if they hadn't.

Yes, I thought the Spurs winning again while showing a lot of progress in working with Wemby to create scoring opportunities would stop the spiraling STers are going through. The Spurs don't actually have a talent issue when the goal is to continue an organic rebuild. As I said, the only way out is through. Through doesn't mean making a trade using some undisclosed assets in the hope that the average NBA players are actually better than the players on the Spurs. It means surviving the year without substantial changes, get the best picks you have and then reevaluate. Your plan to have a starting PG and to use a top-10 pick on a backup is fine, but that PG doesn't have to be a young player on a long-term deal. The team doesn't need more young players with the ball forced in their hands. They need players who can help a motivated coaching staff get good things out of their talent, both already on the team and that will hopefully be brought in.

The team should be looking at continuing to add a lot of players in the draft over the next few years. Even if Wemby is going to pull a Lebron and will his team to the Finals in year four, it's quite possible the young impact players are mostly different than any of the guys on the team now. They shouldn't feel the pressure to acquire more young vets with an eye toward them being part of that hypothetical team. Unless they think the guy their acquiring is a future star, I'd much rather than look for older stabilizing players than giving out any long-term deals.

[rascal]

Slow down…..just year two following a decent year 1.

He didn't even have a decent year last year. I don't know where people are coming up with this.

Look at the numbers last year and this year, they are about the same except up in 3pt %(still with limited shot attempts, he's not a 3pt volume shooter) and down in overall fg%. Defense bad to worse this year and bad last year.
Not strong in any area of his game.

They burned a number 9 overall pick on a backup role player talent.

[CGD]

Just you watch now— Detroit is gonna make a panic trade for Siakim after being linked to OG and missing out. Making decisions out of fear and panic is exactly how NOT to run a front office. For that, I’m pleased the Spurs kept powder dry on those players honestly, and that management is aligned on being patient.

[rascal]

Just you watch now— Detroit is gonna make a panic trade for Siakim after being linked to OG and missing out. Making decisions out of fear and panic is exactly how NOT to run a front office. For that, I’m pleased the Spurs kept powder dry on those players honestly, and that management is aligned on being patient.

Detroit made a play and got Duren on draft day with a trade on the cheap while the Spurs sat back and missed out on getting him.

Now the Spurs are stuck playing Collins on the front line.

[baseline bum]

Eh, there are always players that will become available. It's not like Anunoby was leading the Raptors to the playoffs and if you tell me that the best guard available for the next three years is Quickley, then I think I'd take my 14% chance of getting Cooper Flagg.

Anunoby and Quickley were available because of pending free agency, and they were far and away the two best free agents available this summer for the Spurs since the Sixers are clearly going to max Maxey (who is also a RFA I think) and most of the rest of the FA class is guys like Paul George, Kawhi, James Harden and such. The best target now for this summer is Malik Monk. They could have Lavine but no thanks on that contract.

[rascal]

Anunoby and Quickley were available because of pending free agency, and they were far and away the two best free agents available this summer for the Spurs since the Sixers are clearly going to max Maxey (who is also a RFA I think) and most of the rest of the FA class is guys like Paul George, Kawhi, James Harden and such. The best target now for this summer is Malik Monk. They could have Lavine but no thanks on that contract.

Spurs aren't signing any big named free agents.

We go through this every year and they just don't operate like that.

[baseline bum]

Just you watch now— Detroit is gonna make a panic trade for Siakim after being linked to OG and missing out. Making decisions out of fear and panic is exactly how NOT to run a front office. For that, I’m pleased the Spurs kept powder dry on those players honestly, and that management is aligned on being patient.

You can have patience when you have a team that has potential for growth. Sochan and Branham ain't that and Keldon is who he is: a decent scoring option but a defensive turnstile who hurts you too much there to be starting material. Same for Collins. Spurs need to be making moves for guys would could realistically be put around Wemby and win or they'll end up like Cleveland watching their franchise walk to a competent team after year 7.

[baseline bum]

Spurs aren't signing any big named free agents.

We go through this every year and they just don't operate like that.

Anunoby and Quickley wouldn't have been big name free agents, that's Maxey, Kawhi, Siakam, etc. They're the kind of guys the Spurs could have signed by overpaying a bit vs more desirable markets.

[rascal]

Anunoby and Quickley wouldn't have been big name free agents, that's Maxey, Kawhi, Siakam, etc. They're the kind of guys the Spurs could have signed by overpaying a bit vs more desirable markets.

Those guys are big name free agent signings for the Spurs.

[scott]

Issue is, Quickley isn't a good fit. He's a worse fit than Keldon is. So any scenario that involves the Spurs paying Quickley market value on a long-term deal isn't a great use of resources. It's not enough to justify any acquisition with "I want to add talent to the team". There are plenty of ways to inappropriately add talent that doesn't help the team's long-term position. Trading for a pick to draft a PG and have him on a rookie salary for four years is not at all the same thing as trading for a young vet PG in order to pay substantial money to. I get that you weren't pushing for the Spurs to trade for Quickley, but practically speaking, he might not have been a realistic free-agent target if they hadn't.

Yes, I thought the Spurs winning again while showing a lot of progress in working with Wemby to create scoring opportunities would stop the spiraling STers are going through. The Spurs don't actually have a talent issue when the goal is to continue an organic rebuild. As I said, the only way out is through. Through doesn't mean making a trade using some undisclosed assets in the hope that the average NBA players are actually better than the players on the Spurs. It means surviving the year without substantial changes, get the best picks you have and then reevaluate. Your plan to have a starting PG and to use a top-10 pick on a backup is fine, but that PG doesn't have to be a young player on a long-term deal. The team doesn't need more young players with the ball forced in their hands. They need players who can help a motivated coaching staff get good things out of their talent, both already on the team and that will hopefully be brought in.

The team should be looking at continuing to add a lot of players in the draft over the next few years. Even if Wemby is going to pull a Lebron and will his team to the Finals in year four, it's quite possible the young impact players are mostly different than any of the guys on the team now. They shouldn't feel the pressure to acquire more young vets with an eye toward them being part of that hypothetical team. Unless they think the guy their acquiring is a future star, I'd much rather than look for older stabilizing players than giving out any long-term deals.

I’d be happy with a plan similar to the one I laid out above if you sub out Quickly for a short-term solution at PG. A quality vet who only needs to start for one or two years while the rookie develops properly under a good mentor.

Anyone out there fit that description who will be an upcoming FA and who will want to be here? Feels like guys like CP3 are going to use their final years ring chasing.

[Seventyniner]

I wonder if the Knicks had to drop their lawsuit against the Raptors as part of the deal?

[TD 21]

Issue is, Quickley isn't a good fit.

The Spurs don't actually have a talent issue when the goal is to continue an organic rebuild.

They shouldn't feel the pressure to acquire more young vets with an eye toward them being part of that hypothetical team. Unless they think the guy their acquiring is a future star, I'd much rather than look for older stabilizing players than giving out any long-term deals.

He was/is and even if he gets the 4/$100M he's supposedly seeking, should still be a neutral asset at least. Three and D, secondary creators can't not be and they especially are on teams who have players with unique ball skills at non traditional initiator positions and/or prefer to not have a heliocentric offense.

He could have been an starter while whatever PG of the future they ultimately draft develops and if they have positional size (a safe bet), he could play some alongside them and Vassell.

No, he doesn't provide rim pressure or plus playmaking, but good luck checking every box.

The Spurs do have a major talent issue. They're literally an unprecedently bad offensive team. They don't need to "blow their load" on an "all-in" move, but they do need some quality young veterans so that replacement players like Sochan and Branham aren't gifted starting jobs.

They need bridge players, even if they end up not being a part of the theoretical contention window or getting over the hump. I've said it ad nauseam, but Harris, Barton and Morris all had a hand in helping make the Nuggets contenders, but were turned into Gordon and Caldwell-Pope, who they needed to get over the hump.

[Dejounte]

He was/is and even if he gets the 4/$100M he's supposedly seeking, should still be a neutral asset at least. Three and D, secondary creators can't not be and they especially are on teams who have players with unique ball skills at non traditional initiator positions and/or prefer to not have a heliocentric offense.

He could have been an starter while whatever PG of the future they ultimately draft develops and if they have positional size (a safe bet), he could play some alongside them and Vassell.

No, he doesn't provide rim pressure or plus playmaking, but good luck checking every box.

The Spurs do have a major talent issue. They're literally an unprecedently bad offensive team. They don't need to "blow their load" on an "all-in" move, but they do need some quality young veterans so that replacement players like Sochan and Branham aren't gifted starting jobs.

They need bridge players, even if they end up not being a part of the theoretical contention window or getting over the hump. I've said it ad nauseam, but Harris, Barton and Morris all had a hand in helping make the Nuggets contenders, but were turned into Gordon and Caldwell-Pope, who they needed to get over the hump.

I agree with all this except I disagree that Quickley isn’t an all-in move. His asking price will handicap the team’s future moves some, and I think from recent statements, the Spurs want to stay as flexible as they can to make more worthwhile moves. I want the team to find a stop gap vet as much as anybody, I don’t necessarily think Quickley is the answer. Harris, Barton, and Pope were guys that didn’t cost the Nuggets much, so I hope the Spurs can find those types of guys at a similar cost.

[scott]

Great thoughts by all, thank you Chinook, TD 21 and Dejounte. While the exact players you choose are like picking flavors of ice cream (everyone has their own favorites), I do think a general consensus is starting to congeal around the path forward here. While Chinook's opinion is slightly more divergent in regard to the opinion of the talent level here (and TD 21's opinion of Vassell is more positive than mine), we all seem to agree that some major transformation needs to start happening this coming offseason.

[Dejounte]

-The Spurs are failing to meet expectations this year as far as winning.

-The Spurs are viewing this year as a year to feel things out and see who fits

-Before the start of the 2023-2024 season, the Spurs have viewed the 2024 offseason as the offseason to make moves equipped with or without a top draft pick in 2024

All of these things CAN be true. What would be false would be to say is that everything that has led up to now is a result of the Spurs masterminding every move, every win, every loss, and that everything happening was expected. The real answer is that they are PREPARED. I would be utterly surprised if we dont see major moves this upcoming offseason.

the Spurs have been preaching in interviews about wanting to be able to pivot in any circumstance they’re in, so they can adapt to whatever is necessary… it’s OK to accept an L for what has happened so far this season, but IMO, all L’s come with W’s and the W here is that players reveal who they are more quickly which will accelerate any move that needs to be done and the Spurs will be ready for it because they’re keeping that flexibility.

[The Truth #6]

So what can we trade to make a move? Our long-term picks, which isn't happening. Keldon. Boston swaps. The Toronto pick. And the Atlanta picks, which look to be the best. The Charlotte pick doesn't seem to have much value yet and honestly I forget the details of the Chicago pick if that's even still around.

I'm ok trading Keldon, the Toronto picks, maybe even this year's pick after the lottery. But trading the Atlanta picks seems risky which makes me think the FO will leave them. We'd have to get at least a third banana to trade the Atlanta picks.

Obviously that's enough to work with to make something happen. But it also suggests a lot of waiting year by year.

I think the move is this Summer with our pick, the Toronto pick, and Keldon if needed. For a small market, trading those Atlanta picks early seems like a fireable offense.

But then what youngish creator can we get? Jaden Ivey? Curious what others think.

[kxs783kms]

After reading an article about the Knicks-Toronto trade, I see why some things are the way they are. Toronto is getting closer and closer to being one of the 6 worst teams record wise. If they become that and end the season as that, the Spurs lose that top 10 pick. Why would the Spurs help out by having a better record than them? The Spurs being one of the worst teams in the league only helps their cause. They're one more team helping keep Toronto outside of the bottom 6.

[Dejounte]

So what can we trade to make a move? Our long-term picks, which isn't happening. Keldon. Boston swaps. The Toronto pick. And the Atlanta picks, which look to be the best. The Charlotte pick doesn't seem to have much value yet and honestly I forget the details of the Chicago pick if that's even still around.

I'm ok trading Keldon, the Toronto picks, maybe even this year's pick after the lottery. But trading the Atlanta picks seems risky which makes me think the FO will leave them. We'd have to get at least a third banana to trade the Atlanta picks.

Obviously that's enough to work with to make something happen. But it also suggests a lot of waiting year by year.

I think the move is this Summer with our pick, the Toronto pick, and Keldon if needed. For a small market, trading those Atlanta picks early seems like a fireable offense.

But then what youngish creator can we get? Jaden Ivey? Curious what others think.

Malaki, Zach Collins, McDermott, Osman can all go tbh

I would probably try to get Caruso if I could. Or someone similar. Steven Adams, Valenciunas or however it’s spelled. A real backup C.

[The Truth #6]

Caruso is solid. Good all around, not great. Probably undervalued. If we traded Keldon for him that would help the team, and hopefully would get something more back. Then you have draft capital to use or trade to get the second banana. Caruso is a weak third banana but with Wemby and another star and role players that we still have you're at least a better team. Anyway, just rambling.

[Dejounte]

Caruso is solid. Good all around, not great. Probably undervalued. If we traded Keldon for him that would help the team, and hopefully would get something more back. Then you have draft capital to use or trade to get the second banana. Caruso is a weak third banana but with Wemby and another star and role players that we still have you're at least a better team. Anyway, just rambling.

My aim with trades (at least at this point in Wemby’s career) would be to get good stopgap players at low-mid cost. I don’t get the fascination with centering a trade around Keldon. A scoring wing with no defense still provides a lot to a team when said player is coming off the bench. That’s hard to find around the league.

[mo7888]

My aim with trades (at least at this point in Wemby’s career) would be to get good stopgap players at low-mid cost. I don’t get the fascination with centering a trade around Keldon. A scoring wing with no defense still provides a lot to a team when said player is coming off the bench. That’s hard to find around the league.

You are talking about in-season trades correct? Not the bigger moves this summer..

[onechance87]

-The Spurs are failing to meet expectations this year as far as winning.

-The Spurs are viewing this year as a year to feel things out and see who fits

-Before the start of the 2023-2024 season, the Spurs have viewed the 2024 offseason as the offseason to make moves equipped with or without a top draft pick in 2024

All of these things CAN be true. What would be false would be to say is that everything that has led up to now is a result of the Spurs masterminding every move, every win, every loss, and that everything happening was expected. The real answer is that they are PREPARED. I would be utterly surprised if we dont see major moves this upcoming offseason.

the Spurs have been preaching in interviews about wanting to be able to pivot in any circumstance they’re in, so they can adapt to whatever is necessary… it’s OK to accept an L for what has happened so far this season, but IMO, all L’s come with W’s and the W here is that players reveal who they are more quickly which will accelerate any move that needs to be done and the Spurs will be ready for it because they’re keeping that flexibility.

yet they gave collins and vassell contract extensions....Took so much of our cap space just to not fit with
wemby and be a worst team.

[Dejounte]

yet they gave collins and vassell contract extensions....Took so much of our cap space just to not fit with
wemby and be a worst team.
Yeah, like I said, the Spurs can take their L’s with moves they made — i don’t think those extensions make them as handicapped as a contract for Quickley would. Collins is a stat stuffer (albeit an empty calories one) and some dumb team will probably fall for it. Vassell may get better when he’s not forced to do too much.

[spurraider21]

Collins has been a massive disappointment tbh. Some were higher on him than others but nobody saw this year’s performance coming

[onechance87]

Collins has been a massive disappointment tbh. Some were higher on him than others but nobody saw this year’s performance coming

pretty much everyone has been a disappointment...Half this team should be gone this summer...Either no talent or
they not trying or no heart...No way we run it back with the same team next year

[exstatic]

So what can we trade to make a move? Our long-term picks, which isn't happening. Keldon. Boston swaps. The Toronto pick. And the Atlanta picks, which look to be the best. The Charlotte pick doesn't seem to have much value yet and honestly I forget the details of the Chicago pick if that's even still around.

I'm ok trading Keldon, the Toronto picks, maybe even this year's pick after the lottery. But trading the Atlanta picks seems risky which makes me think the FO will leave them. We'd have to get at least a third banana to trade the Atlanta picks.

Obviously that's enough to work with to make something happen. But it also suggests a lot of waiting year by year.

I think the move is this Summer with our pick, the Toronto pick, and Keldon if needed. For a small market, trading those Atlanta picks early seems like a fireable offense.

But then what youngish creator can we get? Jaden Ivey? Curious what others think.

The move with the Toronto pick is going to be selecting and keeping a player with it. Same with our pick. Those aren’t being traded.

[exstatic]

After reading an article about the Knicks-Toronto trade, I see why some things are the way they are. Toronto is getting closer and closer to being one of the 6 worst teams record wise. If they become that and end the season as that, the Spurs lose that top 10 pick. Why would the Spurs help out by having a better record than them? The Spurs being one of the worst teams in the league only helps their cause. They're one more team helping keep Toronto outside of the bottom 6.
That’s not correct. The pick’s owner is determined after the draft lottery, not at the end of the season, and even if they finish at #6, we still have a better than even chance they get bumped back after the lottery, like 54%. If they finish at #7, it’s like 69% that we get the pick.

[baseline bum]

Would have sucked to have traded for this guy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDU56wPjhUU

[Phenomanul]

Yeah we definitely missed out on Anunoby... defensively moreso, as neither he or Quickley are creative enough distributors to fill that other needed void on the Spurs. Brian Wright sux.

[Chinook]

Collins has been a massive disappointment tbh. Some were higher on him than others but nobody saw this year’s performance coming

Honestly, like Keldon, Zach isn't playing back as much as he's also struggling with the way Pop has run the rotation. I never loved him as the starting big next to Wemby -- and I think the Spurs probably misread the whole situation by assuming he would be. Zach is a single big who needs speed, movement and spacing around him very similar to Wemby. Maybe in a few years when both are seasoned, they could learn to co-exist the way that Duncan and Splitter did. Right now, it's not there, and both would be better off playing most of their minutes apart. I have little doubt that had the Spurs not won the lotto and got Miller, Collins would be looking pretty decent right now.

I said pretty early that Wemby probably operates best with rim-runner/shot-blocker type rather than a finesse center like Collins. I wish the Spurs took that prospect seriously rather than seeing that archetype as an afterthought and putting zeroes like Bassey, Bediako and this new two-way there instead. They seemed way too confident in their prediction and have ended up with a decent player who probably can never justify his contract with the makeup of the roster now.

[spurraider21]

Honestly, like Keldon, Zach isn't playing back as much as he's also struggling with the way Pop has run the rotation. I never loved him as the starting big next to Wemby -- and I think the Spurs probably misread the whole situation by assuming he would be. Zach is a single big who needs speed, movement and spacing around him very similar to Wemby. Maybe in a few years when both are seasoned, they could learn to co-exist the way that Duncan and Splitter did. Right now, it's not there, and both would be better off playing most of their minutes apart. I have little doubt that had the Spurs not won the lotto and got Miller, Collins would be looking pretty decent right now.

I said pretty early that Wemby probably operates best with rim-runner/shot-blocker type rather than a finesse center like Collins. I wish the Spurs took that prospect seriously rather than seeing that archetype as an afterthought and putting zeroes like Bassey, Bediako and this new two-way there instead. They seemed way too confident in their prediction and have ended up with a decent player who probably can never justify his contract with the makeup of the roster now.
His broken 3 point shot and inability to meaningfully alter shots in the paint has nothing to do with playing along side wemby imo

[ducks]

Pop does not want to win more then life
Hell he admitted he did not then white would be as good as he is now
He not good to judge player potential

[BacktoBasics]

Pop does not want to win more then life
Hell he admitted he did not then white would be as good as he is now
He not good to judge player potential

I look forward to the thread “we lost ducks, rip retard”.

[rankingtear]

We are 5-28, only a dumbass would trade for expiring contracts at this point especially for draft equity. Embrace the OKC style rebuild.

[Seventyniner]

His broken 3 point shot and inability to meaningfully alter shots in the paint has nothing to do with playing along side wemby imo

Those two attributes were supposed to be where Zach's value lay, and he has performed poorly on both counts.