Wemby's game management being mishandled

[DAF86]

According to this random guy on youtube:

mY9lQhFd1KM?si=-dEOi5-lYEyNwmlT

I do find interesting that bit that says this must be Pop's call because no medical professional would be handling it this way. If this is the case, it is time to tell Pop to back off from certain things, tbh.

[exstatic]

Random YouTuber must be right about medical matters. Probably a Spurstalker, to boot.

[DAF86]

Random YouTuber must be right about medical matters. Probably a Spurstalker, to boot.

He's a doctor at least.

[My Fault]

He's a doctor at least.
Yeah, surely no one would ever lie about such a thing on the internet.. Spurs get Wemby and suddenly the Spurs fan base IQ drops :lol

[DAF86]

Yeah, surely no one would ever lie about such a thing on the internet.. Spurs get Wemby and suddenly the Spurs fan base IQ drops :lol

Don't know who you are referring to because I've been knocking it out of the park with every single take ever since we got Wemby, tbh. :hat

Also, there's a link to the guy's instagram where you can pretty much check if he's full of bullshit or not.

[heyheymymy]

He's a doctor at least.

Well why didn't you say so

[exstatic]

He's a doctor at least.

:lol. You called him a random guy onYoutube.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Whenever you see someone claim that everyone agrees with them or perfection it is a good litmus test for someone being full of shit. We have to examples of this dynamic in this thread.

[FkLA]

Pop has smartest guy in the room syndrome. He limited TD and Manu's minutes when they got old which helped extend their careers, got a bunch of praise for it and now he does all sorts of crazy shit with younger players. This minutes restriction seems stupid to me. Find it hard to believe that Wemby is fine playing 25 mpg but 5-8 more mpg more would make him more vulnerable to injury. If he's healthy enough to play then play him his normal minutes otherwise sit him. Holding him out of back to backs. Even limiting his normal playing time to low 30s mpg is dumb. Nobody else does that with their young guys.

[poopbox]

Substitutions has always been Pop's second greatest weakness as a coach so this is no surprise. I can't think of a player who he's coached that he didn't butcher their minutes outside of maybe manu and parker.

[spursparker9]

Wemby is fine...Pop is trying his best not to play him

[CGD]

Damn, all these takes are getting old, lame, annd BORING. Yall are some impatient MF’ers.

It’s like you work at ESPN and are already trying to sow dissent. Chill

[spurraider21]

Damn, all these takes are getting old, lame, annd BORING. Yall are some impatient MF’ers.

It’s like you work at ESPN and are already trying to sow dissent. Chill
Creating dysentery among the ranks

[MannyIsGod]

Random YouTuber must be right about medical matters. Probably a Spurstalker, to boot.


Random? Dude is spot on about sports medicine and its why his channel is so highly watched. He's not just a youtuber, he's a fucking doctor and this is literally his specialization but sure ex shit all over it because you don't like what he has to say.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol. You called him a random guy onYoutube.

And you opened your fucking mouth without knowing a fucking thing about him or watching the video. Maybe instead of spouting off your uninformed bullshit you can just keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about? I know this would drastically limit your posting but that might not be such a bad thing.

[MannyIsGod]

TBH its a very informative video (most of his are) where he explains what's concerning about the injury and the biomechanics behind it. Highly recommend the watch.

[CorrectCrusader]

pop is a retard, we knew this

[Mugen]

:lmao ex jumping into this thread in lighting speed to deflect for his idol

[TimDunkem]

Slurpers will really poo-poo a well-made, informative, in-depth Youtube analysis from a valid source, but will clap like seals everytime Timvp forces himself to post and shits out Bs for this historically awful team in his lame game grades threads. Wild shit.

[SpurSpike]

Even Wemby is starting to get sick of the load management. He subbed himself in in the last game and played 26 minutes when he was supposed to play only 24! He wants to play, he wants to help his team win.

If they are waiting on some imaging results to remove his restrictions then get them done already. Isn't that something you get almost instantly when you are in high level sports?

[Extra Stout]

It sucks for the NBA that Wemby is stuck on the Spurs. He won’t really get to come into his own until his third contract on his next team.

[Mugen]

It sucks for the NBA that Wemby is stuck on the Spurs. He won’t really get to come into his own until his third contract on his next team.

At the current trajectory, it won't take that long.

[MultiTroll]

Spurs' Victor Wembanyama checked himself back into Grizzlies game despite not being 'allowed to' (clutchpoints.com) (https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-victor-wembanyama-checked-himself-back-into-grizzlies-game-despite-not-allowed)

1739875743755084035

[daslicer]

I feel Pop has been traumatize since '00 when scrub Scott Pollard took out Duncan's knee during the final week of the regular season which kept Duncan out of the playoffs. After that incident Pop was very cautious when it came to resting guys when it came to injury. He then took it to another level during the 2010's but it was necessary to extend Duncan and Manu's career. What he's doing now with Wemby is straight up crazy and is too much.

[BacktoBasics]

None of this is even news if we're a .500 or better team. Its literally the only thing to debate about. I'm not putting much stock into fabricated outrage when there is little to nothing on the line.

[Pauleta14]

I think Pop is confusing correlation and causation.

He's tinkered so many things during the Duncan's era and so many things happened that he's cherry picking what he thinks had a real impact on either winning or extending one's career.

Those min restrictions might be the most overrated of those

[Tyronn Lue]

:lol. You called him a random guy onYoutube.
Small ball park :lol

[Tyronn Lue]

I think Pop is confusing correlation and causation.

He's tinkered so many things during the Duncan's era and so many things happened that he's cherry picking what he thinks had a real impact on either winning or extending one's career.

Those min restrictions might be the most overrated of thoseI have no idea, but would lean towards Pop trying to send a message to anyone interested that Spurs medical management isn't why Kawhi left. He's been vocal about Kawhi this season, as we saw, and he's mentioned him a few times in post games for various reasons. The Kawhi situation really affected Pop, and he's likely managing now with that monkey on his back.

[The Truth #6]

It's actually not a very useful video in the end. At the very end of the video the doctor actually says he's okay with the minutes restrictions and not playing back to back, he just thinks they're ordering too many MRIs. That's a very technical complaint about best practice. Who cares if they are ordering additional MRIs. The doctor's other main concern is completely non-medical, which is that this might frustrate Victor. Again, speculation. Victor obviously is competitive and wants to play, which is great. He probably is frustrated about his minutes but the team is shit right now. Also, Pop told everyone about minutes restrictions before the season. So it's not completely related to the injury.

[Tyronn Lue]

It's actually not a very useful video in the end. At the very end of the video the doctor actually says he's okay with the minutes restrictions and not playing back to back, he just thinks they're ordering too many MRIs. That's a very technical complaint about best practice. Who cares if they are ordering additional MRIs. The doctor's other main concern is completely non-medical, which is that this might frustrate Victor. Again, speculation. Victor obviously is competitive and wants to play, which is great. He probably is frustrated about his minutes but the team is shit right now. Also, Pop told everyone about minutes restrictions before the season. So it's not completely related to the injury.
The frustration part is that players won't report injuries. That's a real concern if a team mismanages the injury, and over managing is still mismanaging since players need minutes to establish themselves. Hype is one thing, but regardless how much Pop tries to shield Victor from the expectations, that's not his decision to make, not for that reason. Pop is a master at using what power he has to get the outcome he wants even if ultimately that outcome is beyond the reach of normal coaching responsibilities. That's Victor's call. A coach shouldn't try to career manage a player.

[Pauleta14]

I have no idea, but would lean towards Pop trying to send a message to anyone interested that Spurs medical management isn't why Kawhi left. He's been vocal about Kawhi this season, as we saw, and he's mentioned him a few times in post games for various reasons. The Kawhi situation really affected Pop, and he's likely managing now with that monkey on his back.

What Lamarcus said recently in a podcast with SJaxx might have more impact because it makes more sense.

Basically Pop as nice blabla … can be overwhelming for players who just want to hoop and enjoy their careers.

Not everybody is made for the daddy treatment

[spurraider21]

It's actually not a very useful video in the end. At the very end of the video the doctor actually says he's okay with the minutes restrictions and not playing back to back, he just thinks they're ordering too many MRIs. That's a very technical complaint about best practice. Who cares if they are ordering additional MRIs. The doctor's other main concern is completely non-medical, which is that this might frustrate Victor. Again, speculation. Victor obviously is competitive and wants to play, which is great. He probably is frustrated about his minutes but the team is shit right now. Also, Pop told everyone about minutes restrictions before the season. So it's not completely related to the injury.
its not the taking of the MRI that concerns him. its that the spurs decision as to how to proceed past a pretty typical ankle sprain seems to revolve around an MRI, which is atypical in the field. if wemby isnt feeling ill effects from the ankle, they should scale up his activity. let him play past 24 minutes, see if his ankle swells up or becomes sore, and then proceed. then let him play back to back. see if his ankle feels fine. and they proceed. etc etc

but as the guy said, with any pro athlete who has had ankle sprains, you'll be able to squint and find something in the MRI that doesnt look perfect. and relying on that for something as mundane and typical as an ankle sprain is out of the norm.

[The Truth #6]

The frustration part is that players won't report injuries. That's a real concern if a team mismanages the injury, and over managing is still mismanaging since players need minutes to establish themselves. Hype is one thing, but regardless how much Pop tries to shield Victor from the expectations, that's not his decision to make, not for that reason. Pop is a master at using what power he has to get the outcome he wants even if ultimately that outcome is beyond the reach of normal coaching responsibilities. That's Victor's call. A coach shouldn't try to career manage a player.


Historically, it's been the opposite problem, where teams force players to play injured. This was a huge problem in the 1970s that Bill Walton has discussed iat arious times I believe. The fact that the team is being cautious to me is not a cause for alarm. I suppose players could under report injuries so they can play, but that's going to be a wide range of variance from player to player, meaning that some players are okay playing through minor injuries anyway and I don't see a big issue there. I agree that pop can be controlling, but I don't see this as some sort of malicious issue.

[The Truth #6]

its not the taking of the MRI that concerns him. its that the spurs decision as to how to proceed past a pretty typical ankle sprain seems to revolve around an MRI, which is atypical in the field. if wemby isnt feeling ill effects from the ankle, they should scale up his activity. let him play past 24 minutes, see if his ankle swells up or becomes sore, and then proceed. then let him play back to back. see if his ankle feels fine. and they proceed. etc etc

but as the guy said, with any pro athlete who has had ankle sprains, you'll be able to squint and find something in the MRI that doesnt look perfect. and relying on that for something as mundane and typical as an ankle sprain is out of the norm.

It would be out of the norm for regular people, in fact, it would probably be something along the lines of insurance fraud from over prescribing. But this isn't normal medical situation anyway with a super superstar player. He doesn't know what the Spurs medical staff is doing precisely so it's speculation. It might be valid, but he's also just a guy on YouTube trying to get clicks like everybody else.

[spurraider21]

It would be out of the norm for regular people, in fact, it would probably be something along the lines of insurance fraud from over prescribing. But this isn't normal medical situation anyway with a super superstar player. He doesn't know what the Spurs medical staff is doing precisely so it's speculation. It might be valid, but he's also just a guy on YouTube trying to get clicks like everybody else.
if only the guy on youtube weighing in practiced sports medicine and orthopedics

https://www.sehealth.org/provider-directory/providers/brian-sutterer/

[The Truth #6]

if only the guy on youtube weighing in practiced sports medicine and orthopedics

https://www.sehealth.org/provider-directory/providers/brian-sutterer/

I think you're misinterpreting my point. I'm not saying he's not a doctor. What he suggests would make sense for someone in a private practice for average people with sports injuries, yeah, you don't over prescribe MRIs. But the spurs are in a different situation where they can do what they want. There is no harm in over prescribing MRIs. The doctor assumes that they are going to be making medical decisions based on seeing an injury in the MRI and treating the MRI and not the patient. But who knows, they might be doing MRIs to see how well he heals from game to game after an injury. And pop is still playing him. It's not like he's sitting out several games in a row. Pop has been restricting his minutes all season long, and in fact I don't even notice there was a difference after this ankle injury.

[FkLA]

I'm thrilled Pop pulled Vic at the end there. Those extra two minutes were really high risk. Career threatening even. That was a close call, tbh.

[spurraider21]

I think you're misinterpreting my point. I'm not saying he's not a doctor. What he suggests would make sense for someone in a private practice for average people with sports injuries, yeah, you don't over prescribe MRIs. But the spurs are in a different situation where they can do what they want. There is no harm in over prescribing MRIs. The doctor assumes that they are going to be making medical decisions based on seeing an injury in the MRI and treating the MRI and not the patient. But who knows, they might be doing MRIs to see how well he heals from game to game after an injury.
1742391887988670474


And pop is still playing him. It's not like he's sitting out several games in a row. Pop has been restricting his minutes all season long, and in fact I don't even notice there was a difference after this ankle injury.
your not noticing doesnt mean its not happening

since the dallas ballboy incident, he has

missed the dallas game despite wemby campaigning to play
played 24 minutes vs utah
played 24 minutes vs portland
sat out against portland
played 23 minutes against boston
played 26 minutes against memphis (was supposed to play 24 but subbed himself back in, apparently)

prior to the dallas incident he was averaging over 30 minutes per game for the season

[The Truth #6]

1742391887988670474

Fair rebuttal. Still lots we don't know as far as how the Spurs doctors make their decisions. I still don't think it's a crisis that they are being super cautious with the future of the franchise. I don't think they take this same approach with bench players.

[spurraider21]

wemby has said after every game that his ankle feels fine and he doesnt notice any ligering effects. he insists he's able to play more. but the spurs are refusing to lift a restriction until they see an MRI on a pretty run of the mill, low grade ankle sprain.

wemby has always been cognizant of his health and injury prevention going back to his days and france. he wouldnt be recklessly trying to play on what he knows is a bum ankle

[Extra Stout]

wemby has said after every game that his ankle feels fine and he doesnt notice any ligering effects. he insists he's able to play more. but the spurs are refusing to lift a restriction until they see an MRI on a pretty run of the mill, low grade ankle sprain.

wemby has always been cognizant of his health and injury prevention going back to his days and france. he wouldnt be recklessly trying to play on what he knows is a bum ankle
Pop is sandbagging. The injury provides an excuse to play his most effective player fewer minutes. But Wembanyama is wise to it and already getting sick of the bullshit.

Wembanyama may not yet understand his power over the franchise. If he makes an ultimatum, Pop is gone. How long until he wields his power?

[SpurSpike]

wemby has said after every game that his ankle feels fine and he doesnt notice any ligering effects. he insists he's able to play more. but the spurs are refusing to lift a restriction until they see an MRI on a pretty run of the mill, low grade ankle sprain.

wemby has always been cognizant of his health and injury prevention going back to his days and france. he wouldnt be recklessly trying to play on what he knows is a bum ankle

Spurs got to trust that when Wemby says he feels fine that he means it and let him play! If there was an issue im sure he would be feeling something and not be begging to play.

[eric365]

The bullshit part is the spurs waiting something like 3 weeks before a new IRM
Like wemby could not have one right after he feels he is 100% fine. It had to be so long…
It was just another excuse to tank more game…

Wemby behavior is not good though. If he’s not happy with it, he has to confront pop behind closed door. The drama in interview and the auto sub is childish

[Tyronn Lue]

Historically, it's been the opposite problem, where teams force players to play injured. This was a huge problem in the 1970s that Bill Walton has discussed iat arious times I believe. The fact that the team is being cautious to me is not a cause for alarm. I suppose players could under report injuries so they can play, but that's going to be a wide range of variance from player to player, meaning that some players are okay playing through minor injuries anyway and I don't see a big issue there. I agree that pop can be controlling, but I don't see this as some sort of malicious issue.
I wouldn't say "historically" then say 1970's. Even though it was part of history, it's been 50 years since then. I'd say historically clubs have managed injuries pretty well and have relied on players to decide after medical release. Recall Manu played with his arm in a brace. No I don't think Pop is being malicious. Nannies normally aren't.

[Tyronn Lue]

Pop is sandbagging. The injury provides an excuse to play his most effective player fewer minutes. But Wembanyama is wise to it and already getting sick of the bullshit.

Wembanyama may not yet understand his power over the franchise. If he makes an ultimatum, Pop is gone. How long until he wields his power?
He's got more power than Deron Williams in Utah had but even that guy was able to get Sloan removed. Maybe the FO wasn't too keen on Sloan anymore regardless.

[timtonymanu]

The bullshit part is the spurs waiting something like 3 weeks before a new IRM
Like wemby could not have one right after he feels he is 100% fine. It had to be so long…
It was just another excuse to tank more game…

Wemby behavior is not good though. If he’s not happy with it, he has to confront pop behind closed door. The drama in interview and the auto sub is childish

Or maybe just maybe pop needs to get his head out of his ass too. Stop playing the goddamn mind games as well.

[The Truth #6]

I wouldn't say "historically" then say 1970's. Even though it was part of history, it's been 50 years since then. I'd say historically clubs have managed injuries pretty well and have relied on players to decide after medical release. Recall Manu played with his arm in a brace. No I don't think Pop is being malicious. Nannies normally aren't.

I mentioned the 70s because I read a book that mentioned it. I don't know how much it does or doesn't still exist as a problem. But when Pop prioritized minutes restrictions about, what, 10-12 years ago, it seemed like a new approach that other teams weren't doing.

[Chomag]

If we want to have a chance for tempting Wemby to stay then they need to start listening to him now, not when he is at the end of his contract contemplating playing elsewhere.

[DAF86]

I have no idea, but would lean towards Pop trying to send a message to anyone interested that Spurs medical management isn't why Kawhi left. He's been vocal about Kawhi this season, as we saw, and he's mentioned him a few times in post games for various reasons. The Kawhi situation really affected Pop, and he's likely managing now with that monkey on his back.

He should learn from the Kawhi situation and stop kicking superstars out the door.

[DAF86]

The bullshit part is the spurs waiting something like 3 weeks before a new IRM
Like wemby could not have one right after he feels he is 100% fine. It had to be so long…
It was just another excuse to tank more game…

Wemby behavior is not good though. If he’s not happy with it, he has to confront pop behind closed door. The drama in interview and the auto sub is childish

What's childish is Pop always trying to act as the smartest guy in the room and doing things nobody else would do. There's literally no other coach on the league that would be handling the Wemby situation like he is. The only saving grace from this sorry ass season is watching Wemby play, that's what the fans want. Nobody is buying the tickets or tuning in to see the old fart coach. Nobody. For once, take your own damn advice, get over yourself and stop doing things to try and stand out over the rest. Getting sick and tired of the old man, tbh.

[eric365]

What's childish is Pop always trying to act as the smartest guy in the room and doing things nobody else would do. There's literally no other coach on the league that would be handling the Wemby situation like he is. The only saving grace from this sorry ass season is watching Wemby play, that's what the fans want. Nobody is buying the tickets or tuning in to see the old fart coach. Nobody. For once, take your own damn advice, get over yourself and stop doing things to try and stand out over the rest. Getting sick and tired of the old man, tbh.

Yes there is mismanagement

But It’s still not a reason to do public drama. I never ever heard before of someone subbing in without coach permission. At any level in any sport. I’m a wemby fan but that’s crazy
Talk about it with pop behind closed door.

You almost never heard all time great bitch publicly about the coaching / management
Most of the time it’s wasted talent that goes from team to team that have this behavior