Pop's interview: "nothing should be rushed"

[Bruno]

In yesterday's french newspaper L'Equipe , there was an interesting Pop interview. It was done just before the game against Washington on January 29th.

What convinced you to re-sign with Spurs for five more years?
There are personal reasons that I will keep for myself. But professionally, I take a lot of fun with these young people. They are all so talented, while being so raw. Some of them are just barely out from high school. A lot of them are now just going to university for one year before going pro. Their coaches don't have enough time to teach them discipline and fundamentals. This the most gratifying part of my work: be able to develop young people like Victor and be sure that they start their career on the right path. When we played the title every year, my job was radically different. It was a precision work: making the right decision at the right time, drawing the right system, doing the right substitution, analyzing plays. It is now back to the teaching: shooting drills, video sessions to teach them good habits, rigor and consistency in their work ethic. Sometimes, it's fun to do, sometimes I'm going after one of them (laugh). There is however one sure thing, I'm happy with doing that.

Spurs' strategy draws a lot of comments from those who believe or wish that Spurs were already a top team. How do you react to theses crticism and what is your plan?
You know, people's opinions... They don't know, they don't understand. When they see us drafting someone like Victor, everybody know he is talented. But it's not just about talent. Michael Jordan's first title arrived in his seventh year in the NBA. Nikola Jokic has just won his first ring and it took him eight years. We have the right to hope that things will go faster with Victor, but we can't skip steps. It takes time to shape a team. If it were that easy, you would have a different champion every year. These last twenty years, we find the same franchises at the top. Our cycle of success lasted a long time, it stretched over three decades. But there is a time when you have to start from scratch again. We are at that time.

Do you see any similarities between what you are doing and what OKC has done?
We do exactly the same thing. Sam (Presti) has been great but it took him some years to get to that point. They had many draft picks and are starting to get the benefits from them. We must have the same patience,pick the right players. We are in this process of adding pieces to the puzzle. Some of these pieces will stay forever with Victor. We will also have to use well all the draft picks we have accumulated these last years. But nothing should be rushed. The ones that things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.

Spurs are well under the salary cap, have 30 draft picks in the next seven years and have made more trades in the past two years (Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, DeMar DeRozan) than during the previous twenty years. Is it that your plan?
It shows that our front office around Brian Wright and RC Buford has made a good job in financial and strategic terms. We are eager to get benefits from that. It's true we were lazy trade wise(laugh). Out program was in autopilot mode with Tony, Tim and Manu. We only did small tweaks. What is great with Victor is that he has an attitude and personality like Duncan. You can easily coach him, while often, young players think they know everything. He has some confidence on his abilities, but he is ready to learn and listen, deal with both the positive and the negative. Your best players must be treated like the other ones or else it can't work.

You said you were in "observation mode" with Wembanayama. What conclusions do you draw about him after half a season especially after moving him to the center spot?
He plays center sometimes, and a lot of people consider him a center because he is the tallest on the floor, but nowadays there is no longer traditional PG or C. Everything is switchable. You will see sometimes Victor isolated on a wing, sometimes in the low block, sometimes in an axial pick and roll. He will be sometimes the ball handler or bring up the ball after a rebound. He does everything, which is exactly what I expect from him. He wants that too and has the skills to do so. This "observation time" was necessary. We didn't know him well enough. Highlights videos are not enough. It took twenty, thirty matches to see where he was comfortable and what was the obvious things to fix. He had to adapt to the roughness of the game, because he had a target on his back and everybody wanted to get physical with him. He had a tendency to dribble in crowded areas, because he's good ball handler, and had a lot of turnovers like that. He quickly understood that he had to dribble less to counter the speed and athleticism of the opponents. Sometimes he is close to the 3 point line on the defensive end, we try to work on ways to have him closer to the ring. He is also discovering his opponents. His career is just at a very early stage. We're working on his 3 point shot, shot selection and consistency. All of that will take time.

Could you have speed up the process by adding one or two veterans?
We decided not do that for two reasons. First, to keep the powder dry, that is to say waiting before spending some money to keep our financial flexibility. Once the core will be set, it will be important to add some free agents. Add a vet this year won't have help us to win the title. It would have been a waste of money and, more importantly, a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor. Just look at Devin Vassell, he is becoming great and wasn't at that level when we got him. He gained confidence, BBIQ and has raise his defensive level. Adding a vet would have slow down that process for him and other players. I want to have that core growing and that Victor grows with them.

[Chomag]

Nice to see Pop taking time to actually answer questions, and not just be snarky. I Wish he showed the media here the same respect.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Very useful interview. Thanks, Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449)!.

Agree or disagree, this lends a lot of clarity to the Spurs' process of building around Victor. While I understand what Pop is suggesting in terms of not skipping any steps, I also believe that considering the talent that Victor has.. the Spurs should not shirk away from adding veterans who will help him grow better. I understand that it is best to groom young talent to know what you have and build around it, but there is only so much molding one can do of players like Malaki Branham who seem to suffer from structural issues in playing defense or being unable to shoot efficiently. Plus yes, basketball is getting increasingly position-less, but the correct adjective to describe it is more skill-based rather than position-based.

What is the point of utilising folks with less skills in previously important positions such as PG (for e.g. force fitting Sochan there) when you can get a more skilful player (either Tre Jones or trade for a competent PG like his brother, as I kept arguing for before this season itself)? These are follow up questions I would love to ask Pop. But knowing Pop.. he wouldn't answer them as coaches and FOs like to answer in generalities and not specifics and perhaps rightly so. At least I hope these questions bother the team think-tank as they continue to plan for becoming a contender.

[exstatic]

Nice to see Pop taking time to actually answer questions, and not just be snarky. I Wish he showed the media here the same respect.

The media here is as dumb as a bag of hair. They ask dumb leading questions to generate clickbait tag lines.

[rascal]

No surprises here.

This is how the Spurs have done it in the past. Get lucky with the number 1 pick to land the super star player and build through your draft picks.

[exstatic]

Oh, and this pretty much puts a stake in the heart of those wanting Trae Young. His acquisition would be the opposite of what Pop is discussing about keeping the powder dry.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Oh, and this pretty much puts a stake in the heart of those wanting Trae Young. His acquisition would be the opposite of what Pop is discussing about keeping the powder dry.

Trae Young was never going to happen. Just a speculative wet dream of some overzealous media analyst. And nothing more than that.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Well this was surprisingly honest and in-depth by Pop. Great interview and an interesting perspective.

Couple of points I found the most intriguing - at one point he talks about adding pieces around Webmy, some of whom would be gone and others would stay with him forever - as if there’s confidence Wemby will have a Tim Duncan like one team career and they’re more concerned with opening an extended championship window down the line than about pleasing Victor in the near future so that he won’t leave.

Also, RC back with an active role in the FO? Might have missed the news.

[Davidicus]

Are his responses translated to French back to English here? Or direct quotes.

[CGD]

Pop just murdered 90% of y’all:

“The ones that think [sic] things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.”

[CGD]

The answer to that last question was quite incisive.

[r0drig0lac]

I can't say I agree with everything he says, but from his words, he clearly has a plan.

[Bruno]

Are his responses translated to French back to English here? Or direct quotes.

The interview was published in french and I've translated it for here. I've been cautious with not altering what he said but, if there is a part you find weird, I can double check it.

[Mr. Body]

I mean it's pounding the freaking rock. It always has been. Sometimes you can't see the results until you see the results.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The media here is as dumb as a bag of hair. They ask dumb leading questions to generate clickbait tag lines.

He treats the French reporters in San Antonio like mushrooms. I've watched him shut down those types of questions from French reporters down at local pressers.

It is all about venue.

[MultiTroll]

"teach them discipline and fundamentals."

Really? This years team has been taught fundamentals? :lol

[MultiTroll]

Confirmed, even tho it's been obvious. Vassell is one of Pops Pets.

"Just look at Devin Vassell, he is becoming great and wasn't at that level when we got him. He gained confidence, BBIQ and has raise his defensive level. Adding a vet would have slow down that process for him and other players. I want to have that core growing and that Victor grows with them."

He is becoming above average imo, and i will rejoice if he blows past that ceiling to "great".
Defensive level has been raised from "uber slacker" to "slacker". May the progress continue.
But wow, this dude is on the team as addition to Core Victor as long as Pop is here -no matter what.
Let's hope he gets much better and someone, anyone on the Spurs org outside of Pop can get Vassell out of Kobme mentality.

1 million % disagree that adding the right vet for the right price would have screwed up growth and future Championship plans.

[MultiTroll]

The interview was published in french and I've translated it for here. I've been cautious with not altering what he said but, if there is a part you find weird, I can double check it.
Props for the translation.

Bruno did you ever meet Mélissa Theuriau in person?

[couchman]

This interview appears to lay out the vision and plan clearer than anything has before.
They intend to keep drafting and playing young guys until a clear core has developed.
THEN they will consider adding veterans to help them win.
To me this says that this year and offseason we are unlikely to make a splash, or even a ripple, in trades or FA, unless it is to bring in another young talent.
You can expect us to add a draft pick or two to the roster and not much else.
I can't say that I love it, but they have a plan. We'll see if they can make it work and keep Wemby happy.

[sananspursfan21]

I think it’s right to still have questions and even concerns with the process, but this interview was helpful. If I can think and not react to all of these losses, I find myself agreeing with the long game. It’s just that Victor’s so good already :(

[The Truth #6]

That interview makes him sound actually very reasonable, insightful, someone who has a very long range plan for what needs to be done.... Nah! I heard from very good sources here and was promised that he is senile and is a blithering idiot. Good try, Pop, trying to fool us!

[cd98]

I have to say this...Tim Duncan won a title in his second year, Pop.

[Spurs Homer]

That vassell info…was so fucking depressing to hear….

[JPB]

Pop just murdered 90% of y’all:

“The ones that think [sic] things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.”

He also said in preseason they would be focusing on winning this year cos that's important to validate your work and improvement. (Which is true, at some point losng discourages you and makes you doubt) Except they didn't win more. If last year, I would have validated entirely this ITV, this year, I believe Pop overestimated the quality of the group and how hard it is to win in the NBA...


He's is a bit backpedaling here... And he can patronize everyone but I would have liked L'Equipe to ask him about that weird and failed Sochan experimentation (messing up with his develompent) and the Collins failure... Nobody understood... Not to mention he honestly looked a bit lost at times this season. But he's having fun teaching the kids... OK.

Speaking of, I'm actually surprised he's talking about kids and young players out of high school when Keldon is in his fifth year, Devin and Tre in their fourth, and Wemby has two years as a pro... I love Pop and always supported him but I have that strange feeling he's not totally in phase with the reality of the NBA and this team. One thing is sure, this team deoesn't get much better without adding players next year. Will everyone be OK to see them suck ass for another 2 years? Not sure.


Then again, he says it's about learning good habits and getting used to the NBA for Wemby and others, but there's only so much a coach can give you from that regard. There's a lot you can learn about the game, work ethic and the NBA from a veteran around you coaches can't. Countless players will tell you how important some vets were for their careers as rookies. Pop may be a bit presomptuous here to believe he can teach it all... He never really did that in his career, always coaching contenders. And so far, that doesn't look that good.

[mo7888]

Well this was surprisingly honest and in-depth by Pop. Great interview and an interesting perspective.

Couple of points I found the most intriguing - at one point he talks about adding pieces around Webmy, some of whom would be gone and others would stay with him forever - as if there’s confidence Wemby will have a Tim Duncan like one team career and they’re more concerned with opening an extended championship window down the line than about pleasing Victor in the near future so that he won’t leave.

Also, RC back with an active role in the FO? Might have missed the news.

Yup... the RC tidbit was the most interesting to me..

[The Truth #6]

More seriously, his comments flat out state they want to rebuild through the draft, and so I bet they would love to get the Toronto pick this year, and it does make you wonder about soft tanking and not winning as a goal this year.

[exstatic]

I have to say this...Tim Duncan won a title in his second year, Pop.

Dropped onto a veteran playoff team that had been to the WCFs already. Not the same circumstances as any that Pop mentioned.

[MultiTroll]

Do you see any similarities between what you are doing and what OKC has done?
We do exactly the same thing.


Not the same circumstances as any that Pop mentioned.
Wrong.
OKC acquired Shai GA from the Clippers. He was not an OKC draft pick.
Already in place, already an All Star when Chet came on board.
Doing 31/5/6 this year and getting some legit MVP votes.

Spurs have no one even close. Vassell. :lmao

[MultiTroll]

Did the Pacers have some great insight in choosing Haliburton? Or just luck out?

Can Spurs score thru the upcoming drafts is the huge question.

[MultiTroll]

Why 11 teams passed on Tyrese Haliburton in the 2020 NBA Draft before Kings picked Pacers star | Sporting News (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/tyrese-haliburton-2020-nba-draft-scouting-report-pacers/b7e9b8e632a7762c2fe1df14)

If the Spurs could pull off a couple GNob Parker Kwa Leonard Halibuton drafts......

[BatManu20]

Did the Pacers have some great insight in choosing Haliburton? Or just luck out?

Can Spurs score thru the upcoming drafts is the huge question.

They lucked out. Halliburton was widely considered a top-5 prospect entering the 2020 NBA Draft. He was the best player still on the board by pick #6. How he fell into their laps at #12 is beyond me. I know I was pissed when the Spurs took Vassell over him and posted my disdain in the 2020 Draft thread. Guess teams overthought it and assumed his unorthodox jump-shot and style of play wouldn't translate. Idk. But scrubs like Killian Hayes and Isaac Okoro going over him is criminal.

[8FOR!3]

So basically everything I assumed and then some. But people swore that a 5 time champion coach was just clueless. Teach fundamentals, be patient with Wemby, and then develop a plan and let him flourish. Don't build the team around him until you know what you need and don't need. Look sometimes I think Pop can be an asshole (while I'll also always add he was very gracious when I met him in person,) but he knows what he is doing when it comes to basketball and seems less stubborn and set in his ways when it comes to coaching than ever before. Personally it's nice to hear the plan from the horse's mouth though.

And honestly, it's the right way to go about it. Looks if Wemby wants out one day then it is what it is. Dallas went out and got Luka Porzingis/Kyrie/etc. and it has not worked out for them. If they don't win in the next year or two I would think Luka is going to be on his way out the door. I think he'd trade his supporting cast for OKC any day of the week and the fans would too.

[poopbox]

Pop seems to think there is all this time in the world to build around Victor when star players move and get moved all the time in the nba

Everyone is patient...until they are not...

This also gives the impression that Pop won't step away from coaching any time soon :cry

[Dex]

Pop seems to think there is all this time in the world to build around Victor when star players move and get moved all the time in the nba

Everyone is patient...until they are not...

This also gives the impression that Pop won't step away from coaching any time soon :cry

And what moves do you think the Spurs should have made that will make them an instant contender in the next year or two?

I'll go ahead and throw out the Samanic and Primo picks as obvious wastes, but if it weren't for those we also probably wouldn't have Wemby right now.

Everyone likes to complain...until they are asked to offer solutions.

[ginobilized]

Fascinating that Pop is open, cordial and thorough in his answers here.

Also, great info for us to know. There is a plan. Pop intends to carry it out. Interesting that he cites OKC and that the Spurs are mirroring that process exactly. It takes as long as it takes.

I just hope Manu is tired of his kids when Pop's contract ends. He might be the right guy to lead the Spurs back to glory.

[exstatic]

Did the Pacers have some great insight in choosing Haliburton? Or just luck out?

Can Spurs score thru the upcoming drafts is the huge question.

The Pacers didn’t draft him, Sacramento did. He was there for a year and a half.

[Pauleta14]

Thx Bruno

I guess I'm gonna have to learn to appreciate Vassell then... :lol

[baseline bum]

I have to say this...Tim Duncan won a title in his second year, Pop.

Just need to get another David Robinson in this draft

[spurraider21]

i have no problem with vassell being his pet player if that is the case

seemed like it was branham for a while there

[scott]

It is nice to see this level of transparency and openness from our team. A shame this franchise can’t be the same way with its own fans via the local media, only with a foreign outlet in another language.

I appreciate the clarity provided here to reset expectations, but what low expectations they are. This interview will become the new Sniffer Rosetta Stone. When we’re in the lottery for another three years, the Sniff Crew can all just point back to this and tell us how “we don’t get it, Pop is TEACHING FUNDEMENTALS!”

This is just some old man, who has earned unprecedented cache with his franchise, abusing that cache to go on some personal fantasy developmental exercise. Instead of teaching Karate, Pop Miyagi gets to teach the kids how to paint a fence, how to wax on, wax off. Maybe in Year 7, the players will finally know how to put Johnny in a body bag, but it may just turn out you’ve paid $100MM to a coach just so you can be a perennial basement dweller.

We’ll see. Maybe Pop’s way is just some next level stroke of genius. The problem is that there are no expectations, no time boundaries, no deliverables. It’s just some gemba walk whereby if success is achieved, then yes that was the plan. If we haven’t gotten there yet, then we just have gotten here yet… keep going. You just aren’t sure if you are making progress to the destination or just walking in circles in the desert.

[baseline bum]

The Pacers didn’t draft him, Sacramento did. He was there for a year and a half.

Hard to believe the franchise that picked Stauskas and Jimmer with top 10 picks could make such a great move there.

[Proxy]

:cry:madrun why doesn't pop answer like this in america???

they said this was their gameplan from draft day. Brian, RC, Pop said the shit that's in this interview months ago

[Dverde]

He’s dug in, I don’t think this is ending nicely. I give him one more year. OG Pop would have fired himself by now.

[Spursfanfromafar]

It is nice to see this level of transparency and openness from our team. A shame this franchise can’t be the same way with its own fans via the local media, only with a foreign outlet in another language.

I appreciate the clarity provided here to reset expectations, but what low expectations they are. This interview will become the new Sniffer Rosetta Stone. When we’re in the lottery for another three years, the Sniff Crew can all just point back to this and tell us how “we don’t get it, Pop is TEACHING FUNDEMENTALS!”

This is just some old man, who has earned unprecedented cache with his franchise, abusing that cache to go on some personal fantasy developmental exercise. Instead of teaching Karate, Pop Miyagi gets to teach the kids how to paint a fence, how to wax on, wax off. Maybe in Year 7, the players will finally know how to put Johnny in a body bag, but it may just turn out you’ve paid $100MM to a coach just so you can be a perennial basement dweller.

We’ll see. Maybe Pop’s way is just some next level stroke of genius. The problem is that there are no expectations, no time boundaries, no deliverables. It’s just some gemba walk whereby if success is achieved, then yes that was the plan. If we haven’t gotten there yet, then we just have gotten here yet… keep going. You just aren’t sure if you are making progress to the destination or just walking in circles in the desert.

I am with you on the need to accelerate the process and getting more help for Wemby, but I dont agree with your take that Pop has gone senile (not in so many words). There is a sense in Pop saying there is a distinction between what he did as coach during the contention years and now. I appreciate that part when he says he is teaching fundamentals of the "collective" game to kids who have barely played professionally even as he understands that the Spurs have an other-worldly world beater in their grasp in Wemby. I dont think Pop is saying that the Spurs are going to suck for 6-7 years before they are in contention. He seems to suggest that it takes years to *win* a championship a la Jordan/ Jokic did from scratch. Which doesn't mean that the Spurs will take long for "contention" itself.

What I have a problem with Pop's interview is his belief that Brian Wright will provide the talent sui generis via drafting for the project to succeed. That I am not so sure based on Wright's record so far. He is clearly a good evaluator of medium/average talent in terms of picking well in the late 1st round or later, but except for Wemby, his early draft picks have been a flop or mediocre, more or less.

Add to the fact that adding more inexperienced talent doesn't necessarily push you towards contention but heartburn due to continuous losses, the Pop project going the OKC way, therefore looks a bit suspect. The Spurs must combine patience with due diligence in free agency and in converting some of the assets they have. It isn't exactly impatience. He confuses the need for due diligence to be impatience and has some ad hominem references for folks who seek that. Which is problematic, for me.

[exstatic]

I am with you on the need to accelerate the process and getting more help for Wemby, but I dont agree with your take that Pop has gone senile (not in so many words). There is a sense in Pop saying there is a distinction between what he did as coach during the contention years and now. I appreciate that part when he says he is teaching fundamentals of the "collective" game to kids who have barely played professionally even as he understands that the Spurs have an other-worldly world beater in their grasp in Wemby. I dont think Pop is saying that the Spurs are going to suck for 6-7 years before they are in contention. He seems to suggest that it takes years to *win* a championship a la Jordan/ Jokic did from scratch. Which doesn't mean that the Spurs will take long for "contention" itself.

What I have a problem with Pop's interview is his belief that Brian Wright will provide the talent sui generis via drafting for the project to succeed. That I am not so sure based on Wright's record so far. He is clearly a good evaluator of medium/average talent in terms of picking well in the late 1st round or later, but except for Wemby, his early draft picks have been a flop or mediocre, more or less.

Add to the fact that adding more inexperienced talent doesn't necessarily push you towards contention but heartburn due to continuous losses, the Pop project going the OKC way, therefore looks a bit suspect. The Spurs must combine patience with due diligence in free agency and in converting some of the assets they have. It isn't exactly impatience. He confuses the need for due diligence to be impatience and has some ad hominem references for folks who seek that. Which is problematic, for me.

So what? It’s what they are doing, whether you approve or not. He’s probably referencing the BAMA contingent here on ST directly. lol

[Spurminator]

No one expects the Spurs to win the Championship this year or win every game. What I'd like to see is some semblance of effort to coach this team to win games they should win.

Winning builds character. You can teach all the fundamentals you want but there's no substitute for confidence in pressure situations.

A bad season this year isn't the end of the world, but if all of these guys you're focused on "teaching the fundamentals" get used to being a lottery team for 3-4 years, how can you expect them to ever to rise to the occasion when they need a win to secure a Playoff appearance, or a series win?

[RC_Drunkford]

The problem with Pop is he massively overrates himself

[Pauleta14]

Not sure I get some of ur reactions tbh...

1st Pop has already answred those questions, almost words for words, maybe some of u should check his PRE game press conferences rather than his post games where he's just thinking about his coming dinner.

2nd you're vastly overrating french medias, they're some of the worst in europe, France isn't a sport country and most of them live thanks to clickbaits. Now it's not football (soccer)'s level of clickbait but the jounalists that were sent to SA are young without much experience. Local SA journalists are way more competent, it's not even close.

If you understood french and some of the questions asked post game to Pop, you'd not only laugh ur ass off but also take Pop's side with his condescending answers.

The only new thing that we all suspected anyways is his man crush on Vassell

[Kawhi Duncan]

There should be a distinction between not rushing, and needlessly doubling down or prolonging bad decisions

[exstatic]

No one expects the Spurs to win the Championship this year or win every game. What I'd like to see is some semblance of effort to coach this team to win games they should win.

Winning builds character. You can teach all the fundamentals you want but there's no substitute for confidence in pressure situations.

A bad season this year isn't the end of the world, but if all of these guys you're focused on "teaching the fundamentals" get used to being a lottery team for 3-4 years, how can you expect them to ever to rise to the occasion when they need a win to secure a Playoff appearance, or a series win?

Winning the games they’re “supposed to” drops their pick from 1-5 to 10-12. Jesus God, people, it’s like you just fell of the turnip truck. If you’re going to be bad, go ahead and be REALLY bad. It’s been that way for quite a while.

[eric365]

Good interview and the plan was clear from the beginning

Still doesn’t explain the lack of point guard for the first half of the season.

[TekXX]

Speaking for OKC, we don't have Sam Presti to draft us a Manu or Tony, we have Wright who can't draft for shit. I'm surprised that the Spurs didn't let Pop go after he sat on his laurels and wasted the post-nephew years but i guess the owners aren't all that involved, they just cash the checks. Will Pop retire after Wemby leaves?

[CorrectCrusader]

Could you have speed up the process by adding one or two veterans?
We decided not do that for two reasons. First, to keep the powder dry, that is to say waiting before spending some money to keep our financial flexibility. Once the core will be set, it will be important to add some free agents. Add a vet this year won't have help us to win the title. It would have been a waste of money and, more importantly, a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor. Just look at Devin Vassell, he is becoming great and wasn't at that level when we got him. He gained confidence, BBIQ and has raise his defensive level. Adding a vet would have slow down that process for him and other players. I want to have that core growing and that Victor grows with them.

Basically saying the rockets are retarded

[objective]

"we like to keep our powder dry."

* Signs scrub Zollins to $18 million a year for 2 years

---

Someone should ask:

"Why were you so determined to not give Vic a point guard that you started games with Osman and Branham instead of Jones?"

Another thing to remember with these interviews ... Pop is a gaslighter. People see him string words together without a lot of snark or political rambling and think he's actually giving them something.

Same guy who repeatedly lied and would talk about Splitter's rookie year after the fact and say things like "Tiago was injured all year" which was bullshit because he was available most of the year getting dnp-cds and garbage time minutes.

But it was pops excuse to just lie about it, and nobody in the media ever challenged him on it, and it's been a running gag for a decade.

[cd98]

Dropped onto a veteran playoff team that had been to the WCFs already. Not the same circumstances as any that Pop mentioned.

Ha, I know. I never expected this team to be anything other than a lottery team and I'd be surprised if they were even a play in team next year. I just had to say the Tim Duncan thing. Of course, with the assets the Spurs have, they could go build a team quickly if they wanted. Would that be the best long term solution? Probably not. If they want sustained success, they probably want to find a young core, not build an older core that will win now, but decline right when Wemby becomes a free agent. But it had to be said given the other examples he gave, even though I actually agree with the process the Spurs have taken and like Sochan and Vassell long term despite what posters say here.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean some of these things are just false. But atleast he is explaining himself. Like the teaching the fundamentals. KJ is in his 5th fucking year. How long do fundamentals take to learn? He still makes the same stupid mistakes on offense and defense that he did as a rookie. It’s not me that doesn’t understand basketball (which I agree Pop knows more than me obviously) but KJ as well.

I think Pop overestimated himself which is what I said in the beginning of the year. He thought he could teach everything to everyone on the team and buddy it just doesn’t work that way. Pop is a teacher, but he can’t be the ONLY teacher on the whole damn team. That’s just stupid. It’s why we need good assistant coaches (which we don’t have). It’s why we needed a vet on a short term deal. Which we could’ve gotten but didn’t. Chris Paul was on a one year deal. That’s it. Pop was too egotistical this year and it shows.

He wanted to teach Sochan how to play PG. But couldn’t do that and teach Vassell how to play defense and teach KJ how to contribute and teach Branham how to play and teach etc etc etc. He needed real help. And he did himself a disservice by not getting any help. Imagine if Sochan learned how to play PG from Chris Paul. Paul could actually mentor him and take away one of the jobs from Pop. He could teach him things that even Pop doesn’t know. And Wemby would transition a lot faster as well.

30 games to figure out Wemby is fine. But hard to do while playing him 25 minutes a game. Hard to do while not setting him up at all the first month of playing. And really hard to do when you don’t set the tone of who the offense goes through. It gets people like Vassell to think he is a star and should be taking the same amount of attempts at Wemby. He shouldn’t. I wanted actual structure for the team this year. It’s something that Pop has always had. And this year he said fuck structure, I’m going to do everything myself and whelp this is the results. We suck and a team that for 4 years is used to losing is now still used to losing and hasn’t learned to win yet. Next year will be year 5 for them not to learn how to win yet. Are they allowed to learn that? Or will every year be they have to learn to win and we need to be patient? Bc next year we better be in the fucking play in at minimum

[cd98]

Basically saying the rockets are retarded

In fairness, the Rockets don't have their own pick, so no reason to tank this year and I'm glad they want to be competitive so they don't hand the Thunder another lottery pick. We don't need to make the Thunder an unstoppable powerhouse.

[exstatic]

Basically saying the rockets are retarded

And they are. If they’d have tanked one more year, they’d have had a good chance to keep their 1-4 protected pick that will convert to seconds if not conveyed this year. Instead, they’re handing over a late lottery pick to OKC.

[kace]

some thoughts:

- i dont' see why some people take from this interview that the FO want to build from the draft. He clearly mentionned free agents. I think all options will be used: draft, trades and free agents signing. As it should be.

- he already said these things in the USA. But i agree, as lame as some medias can be, i've always found that Pop's reluctance to give some real answers to legitimate questions was annoying. Fans are here to support and pay tickets: they deserve this kind of informations from the FO.

- don't be wrong: French medias are also terrible. But Basketball isn't the main sport here, there is less casual fans and the medias are more interested in real topics and less about buzz and polemics. But in soccer, the main sport here, it is even worse than in USA with the NBA: only controversies and gossip.

- i agree that Pop talks like if Victor won't ever even think about leaving. In a way, that's great that he talks like if Victor is supposed to be the face of the franchise for a long time, that's the way it should be. And Victor doesn't seem to be a diva, he seems reasonnable.

But even Duncan was close to leave. I think that next year, the team should already be improving and competitive, and, by the end of Victor's rookie contract, contending or on a clear path to do so . Otherwise, Victor could choose to go elsewhere.

Great interview. I saw it but didn't have full access. Thanks Bruno

[exstatic]

I mean some of these things are just false. But atleast he is explaining himself. Like the teaching the fundamentals. KJ is in his 5th fucking year. How long do fundamentals take to learn? He still makes the same stupid mistakes on offense and defense that he did as a rookie. It’s not me that doesn’t understand basketball (which I agree Pop knows more than me obviously) but KJ as well.

I think Pop overestimated himself which is what I said in the beginning of the year. He thought he could teach everything to everyone on the team and buddy it just doesn’t work that way. Pop is a teacher, but he can’t be the ONLY teacher on the whole damn team. That’s just stupid. It’s why we need good assistant coaches (which we don’t have). It’s why we needed a vet on a short term deal. Which we could’ve gotten but didn’t. Chris Paul was on a one year deal. That’s it. Pop was too egotistical this year and it shows.

He wanted to teach Sochan how to play PG. But couldn’t do that and teach Vassell how to play defense and teach KJ how to contribute and teach Branham how to play and teach etc etc etc. He needed real help. And he did himself a disservice by not getting any help. Imagine if Sochan learned how to play PG from Chris Paul. Paul could actually mentor him and take away one of the jobs from Pop. He could teach him things that even Pop doesn’t know. And Wemby would transition a lot faster as well.

30 games to figure out Wemby is fine. But hard to do while playing him 25 minutes a game. Hard to do while not setting him up at all the first month of playing. And really hard to do when you don’t set the tone of who the offense goes through. It gets people like Vassell to think he is a star and should be taking the same amount of attempts at Wemby. He shouldn’t. I wanted actual structure for the team this year. It’s something that Pop has always had. And this year he said fuck structure, I’m going to do everything myself and whelp this is the results. We suck and a team that for 4 years is used to losing is now still used to losing and hasn’t learned to win yet. Next year will be year 5 for them not to learn how to win yet. Are they allowed to learn that? Or will every year be they have to learn to win and we need to be patient? Bc next year we better be in the fucking play in at minimum

KJ was a #29 overall pick, and has far exceeded his draft position expectations. Were you expecting an All Star?

[The Truth #6]

For a coach, Pop is very old, and so I have to imagine for him doing a 20 game experiment with Jeremy at point guard is like a blink of an eye.

As for the trade part of the interview, it seems to me major trades are done and it's all about drafting now. It does seem weird that he wants a super young team without even low cost veterans, but maybe he sees himself as the veteran to do all the teaching. Not sure.

[Brazil]

2nd you're vastly overrating french medias, they're some of the worst in europe, France isn't a sport country and most of them live thanks to clickbaits. Now it's not football (soccer)'s level of clickbait but the jounalists that were sent to SA are young without much experience. Local SA journalists are way more competent, it's not even close.



:lol wtf bro, not sure where did you fucking live in your life but French media are quite ok compared to the rest of the world. English media are simply atrocious, Spanish ones are terrible, Italian are not that much of an upgrade and don't get me started with Brazilian ones... even german media loves drama and invents bs all the time

Also France isn't a sport country ? :lol what ?

[KobesAchilles]

KJ was a #29 overall pick, and has far exceeded his draft position expectations. Were you expecting an All Star?
Nope just expected him to learn how to play defense by now. You know on a fundamental level. Since Pop is teaching them fundamentals for 5 years. I thought I should see some results. But that’s just me apparently.

[Spurminator]

Winning the games they’re “supposed to” drops their pick from 1-5 to 10-12. Jesus God, people, it’s like you just fell of the turnip truck. If you’re going to be bad, go ahead and be REALLY bad. It’s been that way for quite a while.

Perfect illustration of Scott's post.

Be really bad (again) so you can get another underwhelming lottery pick with a role-player ceiling and teach them how to get used to losing? Fuck that. This year's draft is a crapshoot anyway.

How about next year? The ceiling is probably 9 or 10 seed. Should we try to win or should we tank again and try for another top 10 pick?

Then maybe in 2026 we'll have top-8 seed potential (which isn't a Championship level, so might as well tank for a lottery pick.)

The great teams have never operated this way. We're taking it on faith that a coach who has never built a Championship team from the bottom can do it, based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either.

[Brazil]

Regarding the interview, there is no big surprise if you follow closely what's going on around the Spurs.

He is right about the fact that nothing should be rushed... and the big picture of what is being done is quite good. Priority number one was to preserve Victor health, getting him acclimated to the NBA and improve his game. About the vet topic now, I understand the logic of course, wants PT for the young guys and despite the losses there are some bright spots, Tre is a quite decent pg tbh, sochan is actually having good games recently...

I believe this is fine for the first year but I think a solid vet would be great to help this team grow tbh fwiw

[spurraider21]

So what? It’s what they are doing, whether you approve or not.
guy who doesnt understand the purpose of forums and discussion

[Ocotillo]

- i dont' see why some people take from this interview that the FO want to build from the draft. He clearly mentionned free agents. I think all options will be used: draft, trades and free agents signing. As it should be.

The Spurs MO in the past with free agents Aldridge notwithstanding, has been more role players than big splash stars. Granted this young team is different from the dynasty team but that is what my expectation is.

[spurraider21]

Perfect illustration of Scott's post.

Be really bad (again) so you can get another underwhelming lottery pick with a role-player ceiling and teach them how to get used to losing? Fuck that. This year's draft is a crapshoot anyway.

How about next year? The ceiling is probably 9 or 10 seed. Should we try to win or should we tank again and try for another top 10 pick?

Then maybe in 2026 we'll have top-8 seed potential (which isn't a Championship level, so might as well tank for a lottery pick.)

The great teams have never operated this way. We're taking it on faith that a coach who has never built a Championship team from the bottom can do it, based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either.
yeah, in order to cope with the fact that the spurs are tanking this year (after months of him denying that the spurs were, in fact, tanking), he has convinced himself that there is no middle ground between tanking and championship contention

[scott]

The Patient Tao of Pop, as laid out here, works for him because it sounds nice but offers no actual accountability. When you're only message is patience, you can simply dismiss any criticism based on one's own failure as a lack of patience.

"Yes, we've missed the playoffs for 17 consecutive years, but we have a plan... you just need to be patient."

And of course, there are people who eat it right up. Take exstatic for instance, who before the season started believed the tank was over and that we would begin our upward ascent now that Wemby was on board (and Pop talked about winning). But, but ex's own words, it took about 10 games before he realized we are tanking again, and he's on board. exstatic has also said on this message board that this is the last year of tanking, this summer we will make some roster changes, and next year we will start winning. But if we start the season 5-15, I'm sure ex will be back here telling us that it's another tank year, because why wouldn't it be? It's the Cooper Flagg draft! The patience mantra gives you unlimited rope... you just need to be patient.

This isn't to pick on exstatic. He is just an example. But this patience talk is just a way of skirting accountability when you're plans are marginal or maybe you don't have a plan at all. It's just like The Process, of which we have one of the chief practitioners sitting on our bench. "Just Trust the Process...." You'll note, that Philly only started turning things around after they rid themselves of Hinke and Brown. Maybe one day Pop will leave us with a nice 7000-word resignation letter too.

[MultiTroll]

Winning the games they’re “supposed to” drops their pick from 1-5 to 10-12. Jesus God, people, it’s like you just fell of the turnip truck. If you’re going to be bad, go ahead and be REALLY bad. It’s been that way for quite a while.
and how much better are the 3-5 picks doing then the 10-12s the last 5 years?
I'm sincerely asking.
Haliburton, Kwa Leonard, Greek Freek, Joker, GNob, Parker.

#1 and #2 sure as hell should be better.
But we should take a look at how much better or not the 3-5s have been before we endorse cointinuing what Pop does Post Duncan Post Kwa - lose.

[scott]

Perfect illustration of Scott's post.

Be really bad (again) so you can get another underwhelming lottery pick with a role-player ceiling and teach them how to get used to losing? Fuck that. This year's draft is a crapshoot anyway.

How about next year? The ceiling is probably 9 or 10 seed. Should we try to win or should we tank again and try for another top 10 pick?

Then maybe in 2026 we'll have top-8 seed potential (which isn't a Championship level, so might as well tank for a lottery pick.)

The great teams have never operated this way. We're taking it on faith that a coach who has never built a Championship team from the bottom can do it, based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either.

Haha, didn't see this one. The Sniff Crew already lining up to inhale deeply and fondly.

Indeed, this is the exact manifestation of cope that arises from a culture without any accountability.

[scott]

The next post I'm sure will talk about how Philly hasn't won anything, so they should have just kept with the Process because the result would be the same zero rings.

The "all or nothing" argument is just another coping mechanism that loser fans use to comfort themselves over their loser teams. As if there is no utility in being competitive, from a deep playoff run, from growth, from saving your fans from 82 games of misery. "You're either first or your last" ignores the two most fundamental facts about the NBA and it's teams: 1) it's entertainment 2) it's a business. A NBA championship isn't the pinnacle of success, but there is significant entertainment and business value to be had in the gulf between NBA Champ and Poverty Franchise.

[CGD]

They lucked out. Halliburton was widely considered a top-5 prospect entering the 2020 NBA Draft. He was the best player still on the board by pick #6. How he fell into their laps at #12 is beyond me. I know I was pissed when the Spurs took Vassell over him and posted my disdain in the 2020 Draft thread. Guess teams overthought it and assumed his unorthodox jump-shot and style of play wouldn't translate. Idk. But scrubs like Killian Hayes and Isaac Okoro going over him is criminal.

It was definitely the ugly as hell shot. Clearly teams miscalculated, even as his shot still looks funky

[Joseph Kony]

dp

[Joseph Kony]

What convinced you to re-sign with Spurs for five more years?
There are personal reasons that I will keep for myself. But professionally, I take a lot of fun with these young people. They are all so talented, while being so raw. Some of them are just barely out from high school. A lot of them are now just going to university for one year before going pro. Their coaches don't have enough time to teach them discipline and fundamentals. This the most gratifying part of my work: be able to develop young people like Victor and be sure that they start their career on the right path. When we played the title every year, my job was radically different. It was a precision work: making the right decision at the right time, drawing the right system, doing the right substitution, analyzing plays. It is now back to the teaching: shooting drills, video sessions to teach them good habits, rigor and consistency in their work ethic. Sometimes, it's fun to do, sometimes I'm going after one of them (laugh). There is however one sure thing, I'm happy with doing that.

BS. Coach saw an opportunity to glorify himself even more by coaching the next great big man and took the money to stay because the FO was dumb enough to offer it


Spurs' strategy draws a lot of comments from those who believe or wish that Spurs were already a top team. How do you react to theses crticism and what is your plan?
You know, people's opinions... They don't know, they don't understand. When they see us drafting someone like Victor, everybody know he is talented. But it's not just about talent. Michael Jordan's first title arrived in his seventh year in the NBA. Nikola Jokic has just won his first ring and it took him eight years. We have the right to hope that things will go faster with Victor, but we can't skip steps. It takes time to shape a team. If it were that easy, you would have a different champion every year. These last twenty years, we find the same franchises at the top. Our cycle of success lasted a long time, it stretched over three decades. But there is a time when you have to start from scratch again. We are at that time.
Cop out answer. "B-b-but MJ didn't win right away!" bro we're not asking to assemble a championship roster day one, we just want to see improvement. the entire team took a big fucking step back this season, it's not unreasonable at all to expect a 22 win team to improve after drafting a player of Victor's caliber


Do you see any similarities between what you are doing and what OKC has done?
We do exactly the same thing. Sam (Presti) has been great but it took him some years to get to that point. They had many draft picks and are starting to get the benefits from them. We must have the same patience,pick the right players. We are in this process of adding pieces to the puzzle. Some of these pieces will stay forever with Victor. We will also have to use well all the draft picks we have accumulated these last years. But nothing should be rushed. The ones that things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.

OKC was complete trash for 2 years but some of that was obvious intentional tanking. They also traded for their current star. Spurs are already 5 years into sucking ass and have done jack shit other than trade for some picks from ATL and completely luck into winning the lottery. OKC was much more aggressive in trying to make moves so that when their star emerged, they had some talent around him. Spurs have not done exactly the same thing at all


Spurs are well under the salary cap, have 30 draft picks in the next seven years and have made more trades in the past two years (Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, DeMar DeRozan) than during the previous twenty years. Is it that your plan?
It shows that our front office around Brian Wright and RC Buford has made a good job in financial and strategic terms. We are eager to get benefits from that. It's true we were lazy trade wise(laugh). Out program was in autopilot mode with Tony, Tim and Manu. We only did small tweaks. What is great with Victor is that he has an attitude and personality like Duncan. You can easily coach him, while often, young players think they know everything. He has some confidence on his abilities, but he is ready to learn and listen, deal with both the positive and the negative. Your best players must be treated like the other ones or else it can't work.

basically admitting that Tim was the reason for all of the spurs success, which we already knew :lol first honest answer thus far


You said you were in "observation mode" with Wembanayama. What conclusions do you draw about him after half a season especially after moving him to the center spot?
He plays center sometimes, and a lot of people consider him a center because he is the tallest on the floor, but nowadays there is no longer traditional PG or C. Everything is switchable. You will see sometimes Victor isolated on a wing, sometimes in the low block, sometimes in an axial pick and roll. He will be sometimes the ball handler or bring up the ball after a rebound. He does everything, which is exactly what I expect from him. He wants that too and has the skills to do so. This "observation time" was necessary. We didn't know him well enough. Highlights videos are not enough. It took twenty, thirty matches to see where he was comfortable and what was the obvious things to fix. He had to adapt to the roughness of the game, because he had a target on his back and everybody wanted to get physical with him. He had a tendency to dribble in crowded areas, because he's good ball handler, and had a lot of turnovers like that. He quickly understood that he had to dribble less to counter the speed and athleticism of the opponents. Sometimes he is close to the 3 point line on the defensive end, we try to work on ways to have him closer to the ring. He is also discovering his opponents. His career is just at a very early stage. We're working on his 3 point shot, shot selection and consistency. All of that will take time.
more BS. we know the Spurs have been monitoring Victor for years now. i 100% do not believe Pop had never seen him play prior to this season. and wtf does not giving him a PG for half the season have to do with "observing" him? like what purpose did this serve? it doesnt take 30 fucking games to realize he is best played at C with an actual PG. more excuses for trying to be too cute


Could you have speed up the process by adding one or two veterans?
We decided not do that for two reasons. First, to keep the powder dry, that is to say waiting before spending some money to keep our financial flexibility. Once the core will be set, it will be important to add some free agents. Add a vet this year won't have help us to win the title. It would have been a waste of money and, more importantly, a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor. Just look at Devin Vassell, he is becoming great and wasn't at that level when we got him. He gained confidence, BBIQ and has raise his defensive level. Adding a vet would have slow down that process for him and other players. I want to have that core growing and that Victor grows with them.

:lmao "financial flexibility" but re-signs Collins to a terrible deal while undeservedly making Vassell the highest paid Spurs player in history for his 18ppg. give me a break

[Bruno]

Pop's situation is quite unique in the NBA: he is both Spurs' coach and president of Spurs basketball. This duality clearly appear in that interview where he sounds like a coach in some answers and like a head of the FO in other ones. He is also 75 years old which means that, unlike the majority of coaches, he isn't looking at getting another job after this one. He doesn't care with looking good.

FOs and coaches have sometimes opposite interest. For example, Monty Williams was forced to play Jaden Ivey by his FO.

When Pop is basically throwing away the first couple of month of the season by starting Sochan, Osman and Branham at PG, who is really behind that move Coach Pop or FO Pop?

[TD 21]

The big, scary, (half) black man, of course. He's unilaterally pulling the strings despite ranking below 1-2 (pending Buford's continued involvement) of the most pedigreed front office executives in league history in terms of decision making hierarchy.

It's all his fault, just like the Bucks not being able to defend at the point of attack or seemingly having chemistry issues is all newly minted Rivers' fault.

[objective]

When Pop is basically throwing away the first couple of month of the season by starting Sochan, Osman and Branham at PG, who is really behind that move Coach Pop or FO Pop?

Retirement Home Pop

Like with Splitter, like with that season be refused to play Murray and White together and capped them both at 24 minutes or less

[Spurminator]

Michael Jordan's Bulls made the Playoffs every year starting with his rookie season. They didn't tank his rookie year so they could surround him with higher draft picks and grow together. They climbed the mountain with a winning attitude and endured some heartbreaking Playoff losses on the road to becoming a Championship dynasty. That's how you build a winning culture and get the most potential out of an all-timer that fell into your lap.

Oh, and they fired their coach 3 times.

[Spurminator]

Pop's situation is quite unique in the NBA: he is both Spurs' coach and president of Spurs basketball. This duality clearly appear in that interview where he sounds like a coach in some answers and like a head of the FO in other ones. He is also 75 years old which means that, unlike the majority of coaches, he isn't looking at getting another job after this one. He doesn't care with looking good.

FOs and coaches have sometimes opposite interest. For example, Monty Williams was forced to play Jaden Ivey by his FO.

When Pop is basically throwing away the first couple of month of the season by starting Sochan, Osman and Branham at PG, who is really behind that move Coach Pop or FO Pop?

Pop just seems to view himself now as a "life coach" more than a basketball coach. He's building men. It's a noble cause, but he should coach at a high school if that's his priority.

[scott]

Pop's situation is quite unique in the NBA: he is both Spurs' coach and president of Spurs basketball. This duality clearly appear in that interview where he sounds like a coach in some answers and like a head of the FO in other ones. He is also 75 years old which means that, unlike the majority of coaches, he isn't looking at getting another job after this one. He doesn't care with looking good.

FOs and coaches have sometimes opposite interest. For example, Monty Williams was forced to play Jaden Ivey by his FO.

When Pop is basically throwing away the first couple of month of the season by starting Sochan, Osman and Branham at PG, who is really behind that move Coach Pop or FO Pop?

Pop's position creates a number of interesting dynamics like this one - for example he (President) is the boss of his (Coach) boss (GM). At the end of the day, however, this mostly just means that ultimate accountability falls on Pop (President), RC (CEO) and Jr (Managing Partner)

[scott]

Michael Jordan's Bulls made the Playoffs every year starting with his rookie season. They didn't tank his rookie year so they could surround him with higher draft picks and grow together. They climbed the mountain with a winning attitude and endured some heartbreaking Playoff losses on the road to becoming a Championship dynasty. That's how you build a winning culture and get the most potential out of an all-timer that fell into your lap.

Oh, and they fired their coach 3 times.

Likewise, the Spurs FO at the time put a winning team around rookie David Robinson which established the culture for the next 30 years. David, Sean, Tim, Tony, Manu, Kawhi all knew nothing other than a culture of winning, because that's what they were drafted into. The Victor Spurs don't have the same luxuries of being an instant-contender, but we are taking a very laissez-faire approach to this.

I hope the FO isn't as content with being losers as their statements appear to imply. The Spurs have missed the playoffs NINE times in the franchise's history... FIVE of them in the last five years. Yet, it's all just part of the process.... be patient. Definitely trust the guys who keep losing.

[baseline bum]

dp

Bend over, I'll show you dp

[exstatic]

Perfect illustration of Scott's post.

Be really bad (again) so you can get another underwhelming lottery pick with a role-player ceiling and teach them how to get used to losing? Fuck that. This year's draft is a crapshoot anyway.

How about next year? The ceiling is probably 9 or 10 seed. Should we try to win or should we tank again and try for another top 10 pick?

Then maybe in 2026 we'll have top-8 seed potential (which isn't a Championship level, so might as well tank for a lottery pick.)

The great teams have never operated this way. We're taking it on faith that a coach who has never built a Championship team from the bottom can do it, based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either.

OKC has operated EXACTLY this way, and posters here swoon over them.

We can’t operate like other teams do, because free agency is basically closed to us at the highest level.

[exstatic]

BS. Coach saw an opportunity to glorify himself even more by coaching the next great big man and took the money to stay because the FO was dumb enough to offer it


Cop out answer. "B-b-but MJ didn't win right away!" bro we're not asking to assemble a championship roster day one, we just want to see improvement. the entire team took a big fucking step back this season, it's not unreasonable at all to expect a 22 win team to improve after drafting a player of Victor's caliber


OKC was complete trash for 2 years but some of that was obvious intentional tanking. They also traded for their current star. Spurs are already 5 years into sucking ass and have done jack shit other than trade for some picks from ATL and completely luck into winning the lottery. OKC was much more aggressive in trying to make moves so that when their star emerged, they had some talent around him. Spurs have not done exactly the same thing at all


basically admitting that Tim was the reason for all of the spurs success, which we already knew :lol first honest answer thus far


more BS. we know the Spurs have been monitoring Victor for years now. i 100% do not believe Pop had never seen him play prior to this season. and wtf does not giving him a PG for half the season have to do with "observing" him? like what purpose did this serve? it doesnt take 30 fucking games to realize he is best played at C with an actual PG. more excuses for trying to be too cute



:lmao "financial flexibility" but re-signs Collins to a terrible deal while undeservedly making Vassell the highest paid Spurs player in history for his 18ppg. give me a break

It’s a two year deal at like 1.5x MLE. Take a breath.

[Joseph Kony]

It’s a two year deal at like 1.5x MLE. Take a breath.
Doesn't make it any less terrible

[scott]

OKC has operated EXACTLY this way, and posters here swoon over them.



OKC missed the playoffs for two years, made the play-in in the third, and are now contending for the #1 seed.

The Spurs will miss the playoffs for the fifth straight year this season. Only the Hornets have a longer active playoff drought. We are most certainly the only team on a playoff drought streak who gave their Coach/Chief FO a record setting extension.

We aren't operating the way OKC did.

[exstatic]

Doesn't make it any less terrible

Actually, it does. A two year deal at 1.5 X MLE is nothing to get your panties in a wad about.

[Spurminator]

OKC has operated EXACTLY this way, and posters here swoon over them.

We can’t operate like other teams do, because free agency is basically closed to us at the highest level.

I was talking about OKC when I said "based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either."

I was not talking about OKC when I said "The great teams." OKC hasn't won shit.

[jeebus]

Nice to see Pop taking time to actually answer questions, and not just be snarky. I Wish he showed the media here the same respect.

The dipshits working at SAEN don't deserve any respect. Especially that retarded cuck Jeff McDonald who would rather spend his nights debating obvious trolls than putting out a decent article.

[RC_Drunkford]

I heard some Spurs beat writers say that Manu said they had a 5-year plan for this team with Victor. That means we should be contenders by 2028. It's gon be a long ride :lol

[poopbox]

And what moves do you think the Spurs should have made that will make them an instant contender in the next year or two?

I'll go ahead and throw out the Samanic and Primo picks as obvious wastes, but if it weren't for those we also probably wouldn't have Wemby right now.

Everyone likes to complain...until they are asked to offer solutions.

It's not about becoming an instant contender because that is not going to happen in todays basketball. Teams play to fast, shoot and make to many 3's for any rookie to come in and make a huge impact in winning.

It's about increasing the talent on the team, because the talent is pretty low right now. It's about making logical moves that make sense, for example pursuing a real starting point guard so our backup point guard can go be a back up and we can stop losing the non Tre minutes every game...cause we lose those minutes just like we lose the non Wemby minutes. It's about understanding you probably going to have to overpay either in salary to get a good veteran here, or overpay in what you offer to trade for a good player, two things the spurs have yet to show they understand. It's about being smart enough to know that when you DO get the franchise player, which we have, it's probably not wise to try and tank again after that, because that means in year 2 you got to be that much better than year 1. It's about understanding how star players move around in today's nba and how volatile they can be and the same guy who says he loves playing for the team can be the same guy demanding a trade a few months later.

What I got from Pop was "we are going to be patient cause we got all the time in the world and we are very excited about what Devin is doing." You actually DONT have all the time in the world and who exactly would even trade for Devin right now?

[timtonymanu]

Nope just expected him to learn how to play defense by now. You know on a fundamental level. Since Pop is teaching them fundamentals for 5 years. I thought I should see some results. But that’s just me apparently.

And yet the other #29 picks like Murray and white still became all star level players. I don’t think it’s a lot to ask that Keldon gets his fundamentals down. Especially if he’s been on the spurs this long.

[Seventyniner]

Comparing attempts to build a dynasty now versus early Jordan or Duncan eras is silly. Players are much younger when they come into the league and superstars almost never change teams in free agency anymore.

Would rookie Duncan have been good enough to drag this year's Spurs team into the playoffs? Perhaps. 19 year old Duncan? No way. Same with Jordan. The league is different now.

Looking more recently, it took Curry and Jokic 5 seasons just to make the playoffs and Giannis didn't win more than 44 games in a season until year 6. Did "cultures of losing" stop them from becoming superstars?

[Mugen]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2023/11/Screenshot-2023-11-22-at-9.35.48%E2%80%AFPM.png?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

[Mugen]

Pop's situation is quite unique in the NBA: he is both Spurs' coach and president of Spurs basketball. This duality clearly appear in that interview where he sounds like a coach in some answers and like a head of the FO in other ones. He is also 75 years old which means that, unlike the majority of coaches, he isn't looking at getting another job after this one. He doesn't care with looking good.

FOs and coaches have sometimes opposite interest. For example, Monty Williams was forced to play Jaden Ivey by his FO.

When Pop is basically throwing away the first couple of month of the season by starting Sochan, Osman and Branham at PG, who is really behind that move Coach Pop or FO Pop?

This has been very clear for the last 10 years tbh :lol

[Spurminator]

The Spurs should be a Playoff team next year. That's not rushing anything, that's a necessary first step. "Fundamentals" can still be taught in that environment.

[exstatic]

OKC missed the playoffs for two years, made the play-in in the third, and are now contending for the #1 seed.

The Spurs will miss the playoffs for the fifth straight year this season. Only the Hornets have a longer active playoff drought. We are most certainly the only team on a playoff drought streak who gave their Coach/Chief FO a record setting extension.

We aren't operating the way OKC did.

We had a couple of play in teams where theirs were first round outs going nowhere, but it’s not substantially different. Both teams were on the treadmill. Let’s see how they stack up next year, if our 2 20is win seasons end with climbing into a play in spot, or better. A play in the third season after the hard tear down would be an OKC analog, IMHO.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs should be a Playoff team next year. That's not rushing anything, that's a necessary first step. "Fundamentals" can still be taught in that environment.
but that would lower our chance of winning the lottery. gotta be patient on acceleration. we gotta lag for flagg

and then 2026 we become a loozer for boozer

[Joseph Kony]

Actually, it does. A two year deal at 1.5 X MLE is nothing to get your panties in a wad about.
:lmao are you retarded or something? my panties arent in a wad over Collins deal. the only thing you could respond to my entire post was basically "cOlLiNs DeAl iSnT tHaT bAd" while ignoring the fact that POP is talking about maintaining financial flexibility which is obviously fucking false because he signed a garbage man to an undeserved contract. it doesnt matter if its 1.5 x the MLE - that is still a terrible deal for Collins production. The goal is to build a contender around Wemby and saddling the team with guys on garbage deals like Collins isn't doing jack shit to improve flexibility. you sniffers really will just love huffing that PATFO copium and slobbering every single move they make. must be exhausting doing the mental gymnastics it takes to try and rationalize every decision. i bet you loved the Primo pick too.

so you think Vassell's underserved contract is a steal too then i assume? Yeah, he definitely deserved to be the highest paid player ever for his three seasons of leading us nowhere while posting middling scoring averages on middling efficiency and getting worse on D every season

[Mugen]

The Spurs should be a Playoff team next year. That's not rushing anything, that's a necessary first step. "Fundamentals" can still be taught in that environment.

It'd be an absolute miracle if they were a playoff team next year tbh. You could have convinced me of a play in ceiling heading into this season but after seeing the rotations, the "coaching" and "talent" level on this current squad, I wouldn't hold my breath for another few years.

[objective]

OKC seems to have deliberately made the decision to have everyone on the roster able to Dribble, Pass, Shoot

Even the backup centers they play, though unconventional, can dribble pass shoot. Their bigs shoot better than their smalls

Do the Spurs have such a plan?

Because they seem to have a roster aside from Wemby that are missing 1, 2, or all 3 of those traiits

And when they find a big who can't shoot or dribble or pass without equal turnovers or rebound or defend ....

They give them capspace wrecking contracts lol

[timtonymanu]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2023/11/Screenshot-2023-11-22-at-9.35.48%E2%80%AFPM.png?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

Did you see the predictable sniffer posts in the first page lol “pop just murdered 90% of y’all by losing 20+ straight games.”

[Pauleta14]

:lol wtf bro, not sure where did you fucking live in your life but French media are quite ok compared to the rest of the world. English media are simply atrocious, Spanish ones are terrible, Italian are not that much of an upgrade and don't get me started with Brazilian ones... even german media loves drama and invents bs all the time

Also France isn't a sport country ? :lol what ?

I’m French buddy…

I meant not a CLUB sport country, it’s just factual… Ligue1 5th league in Europe despite France producing the most players and having the most licencié in Europe.
but top of the pyramid, the elites, (Parisian) medias have no clue

Only 1 national sport newspaper called “le torchon” or RMC the populist/clickbait radio with the worst pundits one can imagine (mainly former average players)…

plenty of beautiful stuff about our country but the way sport is dealt with is pathetic

basketball maybe less impacted by incompetence than football but still… have u heard the questions french journalists ask?? They barely speak English and ask naive/stupid questions that shows they have no clue where they’re at or who’s Pop for ex ffs :lol

[exstatic]

I was talking about OKC when I said "based on the model of another team that hasn't won a Championship with that model either."

I was not talking about OKC when I said "The great teams." OKC hasn't won shit.

Strong incremental progress doesn’t matter to you?

BTW, I think they’ll be a conference finals team this year.

[baseline bum]

but that would lower our chance of winning the lottery. gotta be patient on acceleration. we gotta lag for flagg

and then 2026 we become a loozer for boozer

Would rather they shit their pants uh for Dybantsa

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs will be tanking in 2025

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.387620639.0715/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u2.jpg

[vy65]

The Spurs should be a Playoff team next year. That's not rushing anything, that's a necessary first step. "Fundamentals" can still be taught in that environment.

Serious fucking optimism. I don't see anything from the team indicating any seriousness about being on a path that ends in the play-in, much less being a play-off team.

[Mr. Body]

Strong incremental progress doesn’t matter to you?

BTW, I think they’ll be a conference finals team this year.

I think the Thunder will be a WCF, but that doesn't say much. The last two years iirc had the Mavericks and then the Lakers there, and they were two of the worst teams we've ever seen in that rung. Two years ago the playoffs were so shitty a pretty mediocre Warriors team made it through and beat a wet-behind-the-ears Celtics team. Last year Denver was the only Western Conference team that was in any way prepared for the playoffs. Meanwhile the Heat, a play-in, made it to the Finals.

The league is so crappy right now, which makes it impressive how fucking terrible the Spurs are.

[scott]

I'd like to invite all of you who work in jobs where you have a boss... next time an assignment or project is due and your boss asks you about it... just tell him that he needs to be patient. Nothing should be rushed.

[TekXX]

I'd like to invite all of you who work in jobs where you have a boss... next time an assignment or project is due and your boss asks you about it... just tell him that he needs to be patient. Nothing should be rushed.

Normally even NBA coaches can't use that excuse but since Pop somehow has a lifetime gig here he's a special case.

[Tyronn Lue]

Pop just murdered 90% of y’all:

“The ones that think [sic] things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.”
He's being disingenuous if he claims the detractors expect him to win all games. He's also being dishonest about bringing in a vet, or at least not completely forthright. A vet helps teach younger players, he doesn't detract from teaching them. If what Pop said was true then other teams with 1st overall picks wouldn't want to put vet players around them in fear they might not be properly trained in the NBA play style. Pop could have put almost any 4 g league players with Victor and claimed he was teaching them how to become better players.

Pop's hubris is at an all time high. Some of you are idiots.

[Leetonidas]

Pop just murdered 90% of y’all:

“The ones that think [sic] things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.”

https://i.ibb.co/FhHdLVS/9SfD.gif

Big sniff energy tbh

[slick'81]

You god dam right trust that motha fckn process:lobt2:

[Tyronn Lue]

Nice to see Pop taking time to actually answer questions, and not just be snarky. I Wish he showed the media here the same respect.
I believe I saw this pregame interview, it was with all the press IIRC.

[MultiTroll]

Pop: "We don't don't want to rush things like basic entry passes, throwing the ball to your open 7'4" best player near the rim."

Sniffers: "Oh Pop you have soo much wisdom. Allow me to sniff your shorts."

[Tyronn Lue]

I believe I saw this pregame interview, it was with all the press IIRC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smua1cINiCQ

Feels a lot like a similar interview.

[exstatic]

Pop: "We don't don't want to rush things like basic entry passes, throwing the ball to your open 7'4" best player near the rim."

Sniffers: "Oh Pop you have soo much wisdom. Allow me to sniff your shorts."

Bitchers 2020: We’re on the treadmill! We need to burn it down and tank!

Bitchers 2024: Losing sucks! Let’s shortcut it, and be Houston!

[Leetonidas]

Bitchers 2020: We’re on the treadmill! We need to burn it down and tank!

Bitchers 2024: Losing sucks! Let’s shortcut it, and be Houston!

:lol purposely being disingenuous in defense of Pop

Houston also doesn't have anyone with the ceiling of Victor, not even close

[Brazil]

I’m French buddy…

I meant not a CLUB sport country, it’s just factual… Ligue1 5th league in Europe despite France producing the most players and having the most licencié in Europe.
but top of the pyramid, the elites, (Parisian) medias have no clue

Only 1 national sport newspaper called “le torchon” or RMC the populist/clickbait radio with the worst pundits one can imagine (mainly former average players)…

plenty of beautiful stuff about our country but the way sport is dealt with is pathetic

basketball maybe less impacted by incompetence than football but still… have u heard the questions french journalists ask?? They barely speak English and ask naive/stupid questions that shows they have no clue where they’re at or who’s Pop for ex ffs :lol

I know you’re French that’s why I asked where did you live outside France. When you say France is not a club sport country it is true for some sportco like football and basket. As for the media honestly france is not that bad, I lived in Spain, uk, us and brazil. Go watch chirunguito and then come back complaining about rmc :lol

[BackHome]

I can assure everyone that next year call it what you want either we sucking or we tanking but this team is being built through the draft

[spurraider21]

Bitchers 2020: We’re on the treadmill! We need to burn it down and tank!

Bitchers 2024: Losing sucks! Let’s shortcut it, and be Houston!
we did burn it down and tank. and landed wemby. that was the tank

and then the same squad as last year + wemby is playing worse than the same squad last year :lol

[thiste]

Of course we all knew it already, but it's nice to hear Pop publicly admit after just half a season that Victor is our franchise player and we're going to build around him.

[Spurminator]

Serious fucking optimism. I don't see anything from the team indicating any seriousness about being on a path that ends in the play-in, much less being a play-off team.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that they will actually be a playoff team. I'm saying they should. They have the assets and the centerpiece to do it. They don't have the sense of urgency. So we agree on the likelihood and the reasons.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, it's easy to have patience when you can't get fired and you're 75 years old. More specifically, and sort of tangentially, in life you have to be able to hold two contradictory ideas simultaneously. Patience in a rebuild is important. But there still has to be standards, expectations, boundaries.

It's unclear when or even if Pop can hold players accountable. KJ, Vassell are still learning, sure, but I don't see much emphasis of defense, for example. Each season we keep hoping for an even small paradigm shift in approach.

So I think the haters/bitchers take things to a hypocritical level, there still can be a critique of Pop that doesn't resemble weird stalking. Really hard to say where Pop's motivation is; he seems content to slow dance into retirement. We need a younger coach who has some urgency while still in the big picture understanding patience. Patience should be behind closed doors, not trotted out as a philosophy.

[exstatic]

we did burn it down and tank. and landed wemby. that was the tank

and then the same squad as last year + wemby is playing worse than the same squad last year :lol

No effectve tanks last one year. The Last team that tried, Toronto went from the lottery, to a 6 seed playoff team to a play in loss, to right back in the shit. Wemby, while amazing, is just a kid.

[spurraider21]

No effectve tanks last one year. The Last team that tried, Toronto went from the lottery, to a 6 seed playoff team to a play in loss, to right back in the shit. Wemby, while amazing, is just a kid.
you tank as long as needed until you land your franchise player. nobody is saying we need to trade away all the picks now to try and manufacture a contender next season.

[exstatic]

you tank as long as needed until you land your franchise player. nobody is saying we need to trade away all the picks now to try and manufacture a contender next season.

Literally half the board is advocating doing just that, vis a vis Trae Young.

[Joseph Kony]

"literally" half the board :lol

[MultiTroll]

^ He makes stuff up when he feels cornered / his idol is being theatened.

[MultiTroll]

Adrian Griffin gets run out of Milwaukee for going 30-13 while Lord Poppycock sits on the Spurs throne until death. :lol

[itzsoweezee]

“[adding a vet would be] a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor”

One, that development isn’t going so well. Even the guy he’s using as an example, Devin, isn’t looking too good.

Two, this is just bad talent evaluation. Outside of Sochan, none of these young guys are NBA level players. What’s the point of developing them?

[Barfunk]

We'll see if this is lip service starting with the draft this off-season. If they draft a culture pick, rather than obvious talent, it will be the same old, rest on their laurels Spurs. Not necassarily a championship, but we need to start winning by next season if we want to stay on path to keeping Wemby for good. I'm rooting for you Pop.

[Spurminator]

Strong incremental progress doesn’t matter to you?

BTW, I think they’ll be a conference finals team this year.

I think OKC is the best recent example of success with this approach, and even the best example has yet to achieve the ultimate goal. Meanwhile there are far more examples of teams who have stayed in the lottery cellar year after year and just continued to suck.

[Mr. Body]

I think OKC is the best recent example of success with this approach, and even the best example has yet to achieve the ultimate goal. Meanwhile there are far more examples of teams who have stayed in the lottery cellar year after year and just continued to suck.

OKC would still be in the cellar if they hadn't been outright gifted SGA by one Kawhi Nephew.

[Barfunk]

To be fair though, a good interview here by Pop nonetheless. Just hopefully he means what he says.

[Pauleta14]

I know you’re French that’s why I asked where did you live outside France. When you say France is not a club sport country it is true for some sportco like football and basket. As for the media honestly france is not that bad, I lived in Spain, uk, us and brazil. Go watch chirunguito and then come back complaining about rmc :lol

I’ve been living in London for the last 5-6years

there’s some clickbait everywhere of course but France is so centralised that there’s a lack of diversity and options.
I’m Parisian but I recon the unhealthy networking culture of this city/country and the loss of merit in those type of jobs.

bc the public with decent knowledge in sport isn’t as large as other countries they push the click baiting at its max

again have u listened to the journaleux (^^) ‘ questions that were sent in SA? It’s embarrassing… they sound like kids out of school

[Barfunk]

Lol the phone by your pillow comment by Pop when asked about the trade deadline was pretty funny. With that said, the dust has now settled, so let's just toss the rest of the season and shoot for a top 3, top 5 at worst, pick. Hopefully the league doesn't punish us for the results generated after winning the Wemby sweepstakes.

[JPB]

No effectve tanks last one year. The Last team that tried, Toronto went from the lottery, to a 6 seed playoff team to a play in loss, to right back in the shit. Wemby, while amazing, is just a kid.

Everybody here (including yourself and myself) thought those spurs could reach close to 30 wins, eventually battle for a PO spot, or anyway spurs would win much more adding Wemby, plus organic improvment of the "core". Last yeat they tanked, ignored defense but hey! this year this team can surprise peeps!... Nobody thought that would such a mess again

Kid or not, Wemby is putting bordeline all star numbers wit elite defense and this team still suck, with Devin, Keldon and Tre in their 4th or 5th year. Preaching patience and saying there's a plan is all godd and all, and that's free, but Pop himself didn't expect that and is doing damage control here... There's supposed to be improvement no matter what, speciailly wiht Wemby in. The "plan" this year, on Pop's own words, was to focus on winning more, they're not, we'll see in the future but that's a fail so far.

This ITV is honestly a bit odd. Pop is saying it's about developing "young guys who for some will be around Wemby his whole career"...how many of the current guys they're still "teaching fundamentals" in their 4th or 5th year will actually still be there when spurs would contend? We know Pop's track record for caoching contendng teams with HOF caliber players, he was GOAT category, but he had zero experience taking care of a rebuild before last year, and I feel a bit of delusion or self persuasion in his words...

WTF was that Sochan experience at PG? Who came up with that? The SL hesitations, Collins out, Keldon on the bench, Branham in and out, Champagnie in... and nothing seems to work. Now, Wemby is getting better wiht a real PG at the helm (no shit!) so there's that, but getting better as the season goes is to be expected for a rookie no matter what. But we're all stupid and don't understand BB...

[rankingtear]

“[adding a vet would be] a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor”

One, that development isn’t going so well. Even the guy he’s using as an example, Devin, isn’t looking too good.

Two, this is just bad talent evaluation. Outside of Sochan, none of these young guys are NBA level players. What’s the point of developing them?

I don't get why Devin development isn't good. He already surpassed his median outcome which is a 3 and D wing way before his second contract. He is more advance than his high end comps like Middleton and Bridges at that age.

[JPB]

:lol wtf bro, not sure where did you fucking live in your life but French media are quite ok compared to the rest of the world. English media are simply atrocious, Spanish ones are terrible, Italian are not that much of an upgrade and don't get me started with Brazilian ones... even german media loves drama and invents bs all the time

Also France isn't a sport country ? :lol what ?

France isn't a sport country. Yes, elite sport is pretty succesful but the sport culture is much more develop and the mass much more educated in other part of the world. Lots of "Footixs" in France.

And yes, french sport journalists are absolutely terrible... I'lll give you that claickbit stuff may be more develop on other countries, also not that much nowadays, but french "mainstream" media, starting by L'Equipe today, are absolutely awful and totally clueless, saying everything and its opposite from one day to the other, just yelling at each other but still acting like geniuses... They're terrible, arrogant and are just going where the wind pushes them. That's just made up "debates" over empty debates that they dramatize to death to fill up their shows, websites or papers everyday... Everything in the form, no substance. I basically gave up even caring...

[TrainOfThought5]

Comparing attempts to build a dynasty now versus early Jordan or Duncan eras is silly. Players are much younger when they come into the league and superstars almost never change teams in free agency anymore.

Would rookie Duncan have been good enough to drag this year's Spurs team into the playoffs? Perhaps. 19 year old Duncan? No way. Same with Jordan. The league is different now.

Looking more recently, it took Curry and Jokic 5 seasons just to make the playoffs and Giannis didn't win more than 44 games in a season until year 6. Did "cultures of losing" stop them from becoming superstars?

great point on age difference in “rookies”. 19 Year Old Tim Duncan performs worse than Wembenyama with this current cast, if we’re being honest

[Brazil]

France isn't a sport country. Yes, elite sport is pretty succesful but the sport culture is much more develop and the mass much more educated in other part of the world. Lots of "Footixs" in France.

And yes, french sport journalists are absolutely terrible... I'lll give you that claickbit stuff may be more develop on other countries, also not that much nowadays, but french "mainstream" media, starting by L'Equipe today, are absolutely awful and totally clueless, saying everything and its opposite from one day to the other, just yelling at each other but still acting like geniuses... They're terrible, arrogant and are just going where the wind pushes them. That's just made up "debates" over empty debates that they dramatize to death to fill up their shows, websites or papers everyday... Everything in the form, no substance. I basically gave up even caring...

Elite sport is not pretty successful, it is pretty great considering the number of habitants and the diversity of sports practiced (all sport co, snow, football, rugby, olympics without forgetting extreme sports where French athletes are thriving). Now you don't have good elite / professional without a strong base and a strong sport culture.

This is typical French bashing and complaining about just fucking everything without recognizing what is great about their country. I am living abroad for the last 20 years, first world countries, third world countries and if you think France is not doing enough about sport or French media are terrible go watch somewhere else. L'equipe is no more or less clueless than gazetta delo sport, AS, SI and don't get me started with ESPN, GLOBO... L'equipe had a major impact on the sport world, L'equipe created the fucking champions league, the ballon d'or, le tour de France.

What other part of the world sport culture is more developped ? you have one example the USA, that's about it now you may have arguments about Spain, Germany, Australia but even there France is not ridiculous in terms of culture, structure, incentive neither elite and bases results.

[Pauleta14]

I don't get why Devin development isn't good. He already surpassed his median outcome which is a 3 and D wing way before his second contract. He is more advance than his high end comps like Middleton and Bridges at that age.

middleton and Bridges aren’t one dimensional players like Devin who aside of his shooting is average or below average in so many areas …

[Pauleta14]

France isn't a sport country. Yes, elite sport is pretty succesful but the sport culture is much more develop and the mass much more educated in other part of the world. Lots of "Footixs" in France.

And yes, french sport journalists are absolutely terrible... I'lll give you that claickbit stuff may be more develop on other countries, also not that much nowadays, but french "mainstream" media, starting by L'Equipe today, are absolutely awful and totally clueless, saying everything and its opposite from one day to the other, just yelling at each other but still acting like geniuses... They're terrible, arrogant and are just going where the wind pushes them. That's just made up "debates" over empty debates that they dramatize to death to fill up their shows, websites or papers everyday... Everything in the form, no substance. I basically gave up even caring...

thanks. You put it better than I did

[Mugen]

Did you see the predictable sniffer posts in the first page lol “pop just murdered 90% of y’all by losing 20+ straight games.”

:lmao

[Pauleta14]

Brazil...

It's a long topic that is related to French history, the fact that sports haven't been used for propaganda the same way it was in most other big (if not all) sport countries.

There's condescending view of sport from the elites in France that prevents any developmwnt (France is almost 3rd world country in club sports despite being 6th ot 7th economy in the world).

Because real sports fans aren't enough to get big audiences, medias have to target mainstream fans with very little knowledge who only react to populist and demagogic takes

It's unwatchable and makes First Take looks like elite reporting

[itzsoweezee]

I don't get why Devin development isn't good. He already surpassed his median outcome which is a 3 and D wing way before his second contract. He is more advance than his high end comps like Middleton and Bridges at that age.

If he were a 3 and D guy, that would actually be great. Unfortunately, he’s not a great three point shooter and he’s not even a good defender. He doesn’t look any better than he did last year.

[KobesAchilles]

:lol people on here watching Devin play and saying he can defend

[LeBowen]

:lol people on here watching Devin play and saying he can defend

We're coping hard with Devin.
Most posters believe in him and noone is complaining about the fact that he'll be making 30 million next year, but then they go full on scorched Earth about how Trae is a horrible basketball player and actually a net negative.

[Pauleta14]

I think some STers are emotionaly attached to Devin and too biased to see the obvious

After reading Pop's interview I'm afraid him too

[Mr. Body]

Not defending Vassell, but can we be serious and honest here? Vassell is making $30 million next year with the amount going down year over year. Young is making $43 million next year and the amount going up. Vassell is still developing. I hope he gets a killer instinct or more consistent. He's a good teammate and plays within a team environment and system. Young is a player whose own teammates won't vote for him in the All-Star Game and requires players to be built around him. Perhaps most important, Vassell is a player we already have, Young is a player we'd have to give up most of our draft capital to acquire.

[dbestpro]

If you can't play defense, you shouldn't play.

[rankingtear]

middleton and Bridges aren’t one dimensional players like Devin who aside of his shooting is average or below average in so many areas …

Devin is one of the best team defender in the league. Eye testers only see the on ball stuff.

[Brazil]

Brazil...

It's a long topic that is related to French history, the fact that sports haven't been used for propaganda the same way it was in most other big (if not all) sport countries.

There's condescending view of sport from the elites in France that prevents any developmwnt (France is almost 3rd world country in club sports despite being 6th ot 7th economy in the world).

Because real sports fans aren't enough to get big audiences, medias have to target mainstream fans with very little knowledge who only react to populist and demagogic takes

It's unwatchable and makes First Take looks like elite reporting

Saying that French professional teams suck (rugby being a big exception) is different than saying France is not a sport country ou has no sport culture. I, personnally don't give a single fuck about clubs other than mines, I don't root for Bordeaux in the hope of Bordeaux winning a champions league and honestly I'm always celebrating when PSG get his ass kicked, same for l'OM or Lyon. I just enjoy FNT winning two world cups and being two times runner ups during my lifetime, I enjoy watching our handball team, our volley team... For all the sucess of French clubs in rugby, I'd change all of that for a WC or even a great slam.

Yes the media sucks blabla but they don't suck more than anywhere else, I'm sorry. Populist and demagogic takes are everywhere, listen to Shaq takes or Perkins explaining that whites are favored when it comes to MVP awards, don't get me started with Stephen A Smith to name another one. Populist clickbaiting media are not a French specialty, not even close. L'equipe du soir is "apostrophe" compared to chiringuito.

[offset formation]

So what? It’s what they are doing, whether you approve or not. He’s probably referencing the BAMA contingent here on ST directly. lol

BAMA?

[Mr. Body]

BAMA?

Bitch and Moan

[poopbox]

Not defending Vassell, but can we be serious and honest here? Vassell is making $30 million next year with the amount going down year over year. Young is making $43 million next year and the amount going up. Vassell is still developing. I hope he gets a killer instinct or more consistent. He's a good teammate and plays within a team environment and system. Young is a player whose own teammates won't vote for him in the All-Star Game and requires players to be built around him. Perhaps most important, Vassell is a player we already have, Young is a player we'd have to give up most of our draft capital to acquire.


There is no way to know if he is or not. He could be. Or he could already be as good as he is going to be. Everyone thinks young players are "developing" until 3 years goes by and your realize they the same player they were years ago.

[LeBowen]

What do people even think Vassell will develop into?
It's his fourth season, I can only see him becoming a bit better at what he does well, I don't think he'll ever be a great playmaker or defender.
Shooting guards with average playmaking are the easiest players to find in modern NBA. Especially ones that aren't great defenders.
And yet noone thinks that his 150 million deal will become an issue.

Would he do better on a good team? Obviously, everyone does.
Would a good team pay him 30 million? Obviously not, that's too much for a third option if you have two max players.

Last season I honestly thought he can develop into our Devin (Booker), but it's not happening.
Booker was also winning 20ish games in his third/fourth season and averaged 26/7.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think all this losing is getting to us and we grasp for straws thinking any of these scrubs will actually be good enough to become serious pieces on a playoff team.
I really don't see Devin ever being worth his upcoming contract and I think Spurs should include him in any potential trade for a star before the league catches up on him actually not being 150 million good.

Much like Keldon isn't worth his deal, neither is Devin.
If Devin got 80/4, then he would've been worth it. 150/5 is too much.

[The Truth #6]

My issue with Devin is not even his fault, he's not super athletic, and has to take difficult shots. I think he is a hard worker and has really improved in many ways. He continues to get better with the
ball in his hands. I think he will continue to improve but not sure yet how much. Anyway. Back to Pop.

[Mr. Body]

Booker didn't become a good player until Chris Paul came around.

And you BAMA freaks have to realize Devin is going to be making $27 million for the two years after next and then $24.6 million the year after. While the cap is going up.

He missed a ton of last year. He's a different player than he was at the beginning of the year. Sure, he may not develop much more, but he's clearly on a trajectory and the team is working on him and I'm sure in very specific ways. He is outplaying the position he was drafted in his year.

Man you people arent just insufferable, you almost don't deserve to be Spurs fans -- It's not that you have no patience, you're completely incapable of seeing what has happened in the past and applying it to what the franchise does now. It's like you're single-cell creatures just blatantly reacting to blunt stimulus.

[Mr. Body]

My issue with Devin is not even his fault, he's not super athletic, and has to take difficult shots. I think he is a hard worker and has really improved in many ways. He continues to get better with the
ball in his hands. I think he will continue to improve but not sure yet how much. Anyway. Back to Pop.

My frustration with Vassell is that he's passive and acts within the system, which is a mentality thing or likely what they want him to do, and that his athletic limitations are what you say, that he's forced into difficult shots and can't get separation. This could be fixed with a better lineup where a dangerous lead guard pulls attention away giving him more open looks. There's absolutely no one on the team who can do this right now.

[LeBowen]

Booker didn't become a good player until Chris Paul came around.

He wasn't a superstar, but he was a solid all-star. You could say that he was putting up empty numbers, but that also takes some skill.


And you BAMA freaks have to realize Devin is going to be making $27 million for the two years after next and then $24.6 million the year after. While the cap is going up.

My only issue are people who are constantly shitting on Trae, but are somehow fine with Devin making just $13M less as a way worse players.
(Just to be clear, I don't want Trae at all costs, I just think that he's a no brainer trade target for fair price.)


Man you people arent just insufferable, you almost don't deserve to be Spurs fans -- It's not that you have no patience, you're completely incapable of seeing what has happened in the past and applying it to what the franchise does now. It's like you're single-cell creatures just blatantly reacting to blunt stimulus.

Yeah, forgive me for wanting to have at least a couple of players who don't completely tunnel vision on offense and can play something that resembles solid defense.
This roster goes against everything Spurs stand for as a franchise.
Tre is the only player with good basketball IQ, despite his limitations.

To put things into perspective, in the last four games Wemby played a total of 30 minutes and 30 seconds in fourth quarters.
In those 30 minutes he's had 6 field goal attempts and 2 free throws.
He had 1 assist and 5 total turnovers.

Excuse me for not being happy when our franchise player who also happens to be the best prospect in 20 years gets 2.5 possessions per fourth quarter. After dominating clutch time in most wins this season.
Our franchise player that also happens to be 7'4 and the biggest vertical threat in the league.

I'm not demanding for any superstar trades to happen, I'm just saying that current roster is full of low-IQ players and that's way more difficult aspect of basketball to teach than any kind of shooting.

[Atl Spur]

Pop wants mentally tough players who possess thick skin; looking over to the bench / sulking after mistakes won’t cut it with him to take you serious. Devin needs to just start operating in a star space mentally as his game catches up.

[Harry Callahan]

I like DV. With other players better than the current cast, he'll be a key asset. He won't have to take as many high difficulty shots.

His time will come.

[RC_Drunkford]

Devin averages the same stats as Khris Middleton did in his 4th NBA year. Middleton's numbers dipped significantly in his 5th year. I don't know what the issue is here

[Leetonidas]

Devin averages the same stats as Khris Middleton did in his 4th NBA year. Middleton's numbers dipped significantly in his 5th year. I don't know what the issue is here

That was in 2016 though. The NBA has changed drastically in terms of offense and pace since then so comparing per game averages doesn't tell the whole story imho

[Kevin]

Sochan Dev and Keldon are consistency inconsistent. They could never dream of averaging 27/10 like Trea Young has since his second season. Yet Trea just isn't good enough for the Spurs. Laughable homerism.

[itzsoweezee]

You can tell the posters who watch basketball and follow the nba and those that are only spurs fans. Some of you people are completely clueless about the league in which the spurs play. It’s fascinating

[RC_Drunkford]

That was in 2016 though. The NBA has changed drastically in terms of offense and pace since then so comparing per game averages doesn't tell the whole story imho

Yeah but what you fail to recognize is that in his All-Star seasons he only averaged about 2 points per game more than he did in his 4th (although he played a couple minutes less in some of them). So it's not like his numbers went up significantly while the NBA scoring averages increased.

[Pauleta14]

Saying that French professional teams suck (rugby being a big exception) is different than saying France is not a sport country ou has no sport culture. I, personnally don't give a single fuck about clubs other than mines, I don't root for Bordeaux in the hope of Bordeaux winning a champions league and honestly I'm always celebrating when PSG get his ass kicked, same for l'OM or Lyon. I just enjoy FNT winning two world cups and being two times runner ups during my lifetime, I enjoy watching our handball team, our volley team... For all the sucess of French clubs in rugby, I'd change all of that for a WC or even a great slam.

Yes the media sucks blabla but they don't suck more than anywhere else, I'm sorry. Populist and demagogic takes are everywhere, listen to Shaq takes or Perkins explaining that whites are favored when it comes to MVP awards, don't get me started with Stephen A Smith to name another one. Populist clickbaiting media are not a French specialty, not even close. L'equipe du soir is "apostrophe" compared to chiringuito.

i might have not expressed myself well but I think ur missing my point bud…

I’m not talking about the people of France at any point. I even mentioned that were the country with maybe the most licenciés in Europe
Im talking about how the country treats sport and its view historically.
french elites (media included) don’t respect physical activity/sports in general, only attached themselves to it when semi finals/finals etc
it impacts the way sport is (un)developped when abroad it’s cultural and accepted as part of the society

in France fans are forbidden to travel to other stadiums and PSG wasn’t allowed to party in their own city for the last 7years

it’s so much diff in England Italy Spain or Germany (where I’ve been).

anywasy wrong thread ;)

[Leetonidas]

Yeah but what you fail to recognize is that in his All-Star seasons he only averaged about 2 points per game more than he did in his 4th (although he played a couple minutes less in some of them). So it's not like his numbers went up significantly while the NBA scoring averages increased.

His selections were more a byproduct of Milwaukee being an elite RS team because of Giannis. I don't weigh AS appearances heavily personally. He has 0 all NBA team selections

[RC_Drunkford]

His selections were more a byproduct of Milwaukee being an elite RS team because of Giannis. I don't weigh AS appearances heavily personally. He has 0 all NBA team selections

that's not my point. He was a 2nd option on a team that won a ring.

[scott]

that's not my point. He was a 2nd option on a team that won a ring.

It is yet to be seen if Devin can come to the realization that he is (at best) the 2nd option.

A legit PG should really help Devin as much as anyone... but if in two years (or perhaps this time next year) he is playing the same ol' chucker ball, we'll have to have a real conversation.

[Kevin]

It is yet to be seen if Devin can come to the realization that he is (at best) the 2nd option.

A legit PG should really help Devin as much as anyone... but if in two years (or perhaps this time next year) he is playing the same ol' chucker ball, we'll have to have a real conversation.

Dev's in his fourth year. Kids gloves have to come off at some point. Dev's ceiling looks like a good starter like DJM equating to a fourth option on a championship team. Which if we're being honest that means he's a sixth man bench scoring who can do a bit of play making.

[Leetonidas]

that's not my point. He was a 2nd option on a team that won a ring.

Mostly because Giannis had one of the greatest finals series ever that year. But still, I don't think Vassell is on Middleton's trajectory at this point even if they had comparable numbers per game was in their 4th year, which was my point. And shit Jason Terry was the second best player on a title team and if Terry is Vassells ceiling we're fucked :lol

Besides, Holiday was the 2nd best player on that Bucks team imo

[spurraider21]

Mostly because Giannis had one of the greatest finals series ever that year. But still, I don't think Vassell is on Middleton's trajectory at this point even if they had comparable numbers per game was in their 4th year, which was my point. And shit Jason Terry was the second best player on a title team and if Terry is Vassells ceiling we're fucked :lol

Besides, Holiday was the 2nd best player on that Bucks team imo
i had hopes for the middleton development but he really hasnt gotten any better as a creator/passer. really had hopes for him because he did take a step up in that department last year, but no real follow up to it this year. plus his defense isnt as good as middleton's.

[spurraider21]

brilliant pass by wesley but sochan cant finish, leads to runout dunk. next trip down collins doesnt even leave the ground to contest jalen suggs. disgrace

[Chinook]

I think too many people believe it's just a given that Wemby would benefit from the Spurs adjusting its posture and that he's being held back by the team tanking. I don't think people appreciate that on a more competitive roster, Wemby wouldn't have the same freedom or have the same usage he does now. It's easy to say guys like Keldon and Vassell should defer to Wemby and be mad at them continuing to try to play the roles they were groomed for for years. But on a roster that had legit productive players, the turnovers, the breaking off plays to try to get his points, the evanescent screens, the bad threes, the attempted cherry-picking, the lack of conditioning -- that wouldn't work. The dude is raw -- yes, still. What he can do at times and what he'd be able to do in serious games are different. Just as OKC's talent allows Chet to be the modern-big equivalent of Danny Green, the Spurs' lack of talent is what lets Wemby test his limits with impunity.

The team is not a "good PG" away from turning their roster around. Jones is a solid PG who fits well with Victor for now. The reality is that Wemby is having a mixed impact this season, which is actually better than most rookies (even ROYs from previous seasons) but isn't there yet in terms of a competitive roster. He's 20 years old. The reason why Pop talked about how long it took guys like Jordan and Jokic to win titles is to push against the notion some people have that Wemby's potential is so superlative that he shouldn't require the same grace to figure out what he's doing. Pretending that Wemby is farther along than he is does him a disservice. The Spurs might well have drafted a mega-star, but even mega-stars don't win early and need time to figure it out.

A lot of people want the Spurs to be a good team with Wemby as their best player. That's not really a realistic option right now. They could potentially be a VERY good team with Wemby as their second-best player, or maybe a strong one if he's one of three near-equal players. But with him as the unquestioned best player who gets most of the touches wherever he wants with the team being oriented toward feeding him? That's probably not a good team.

So if the Spurs are truly trying to accelerate the timeline, they need to go for a guy who can be the best player on a title team. That's really only Curry or James in terms of even remotely feasible options. Trades for like Quickley, Murray or even Mikal aren't there. That's how you get a team that's extremely similar to this one but that might win a few more games, like how the Hawks were basically the same team after acquiring Murray, how the Nets still suck with Bridges. Alternatively, they can not piss away the draft like so many want them to and try to find the Klay Thompson to Wemby's Curry. Only PATFO knows if there are prospects in this draft they think are worth tanking for. They can and have been wrong, obviously, but the front office has to proceed with the belief that they can execute the tasks they assign themselves. It shouldn't require saying that the FO should be confident in what they do rather than doing things they don't think will work.

There are always multiple ways a team can proceed. I wanted them to take a different path going into last summer. I didn't want them to take this path. But now that they have, they need to actually see it through. Next summer, I want them to combine their draft winnings with an aggressive attempt to add a legit piece to their starting lineup. They may choose to do something completely different. I hope they execute whatever they choose to do.

[spurraider21]

Ok but today wemby played the same amount of minutes as taj gibson

[Chinook]

Ok but today wemby played the same amount of minutes as taj gibson

Did you watch the game? Wemby looked dead out there. It seems obvious the minutes restriction was good for him or in the very least that he's not at all used to playing without it.

[Mr. Body]

Did you watch the game? Wemby looked dead out there. It seems obvious the minutes restriction was good for him or in the very least that he's not at all used to playing without it.

He's hitting a rookie wall, too. This is a ton of games.

[rankingtear]

What do people even think Vassell will develop into?
It's his fourth season, I can only see him becoming a bit better at what he does well, I don't think he'll ever be a great playmaker or defender.
Shooting guards with average playmaking are the easiest players to find in modern NBA. Especially ones that aren't great defenders.
And yet noone thinks that his 150 million deal will become an issue.

Would he do better on a good team? Obviously, everyone does.
Would a good team pay him 30 million? Obviously not, that's too much for a third option if you have two max players.

Last season I honestly thought he can develop into our Devin (Booker), but it's not happening.
Booker was also winning 20ish games in his third/fourth season and averaged 26/7.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think all this losing is getting to us and we grasp for straws thinking any of these scrubs will actually be good enough to become serious pieces on a playoff team.
I really don't see Devin ever being worth his upcoming contract and I think Spurs should include him in any potential trade for a star before the league catches up on him actually not being 150 million good.

Much like Keldon isn't worth his deal, neither is Devin.
If Devin got 80/4, then he would've been worth it. 150/5 is too much.

Devin is scalable and there is already plenty of times he showed that he is finals guy. The way he scores and his team defense translate very well into the postseason, you see it when he goes against great defenses in the regular season. A lot of teams would pay him that number it is equivalent to 21mil this season since some don't really understands the cap.

[offset formation]

My issue with Devin is not even his fault, he's not super athletic, and has to take difficult shots. I think he is a hard worker and has really improved in many ways. He continues to get better with the
ball in his hands. I think he will continue to improve but not sure yet how much. Anyway. Back to Pop.

He's a chucker that occasionally gets hot like he did tonight. He's a positive PnR PnP player. He's a minus player 1 on 1 and open court play. He plays well off Wemby and if he has any future, it's there. He's simply not a game changer in 1 on 1.

[Chinook]

Vassell is still improving as well. Folks don't appreciate that he's also not being put in an ideal position on the current roster. If the goal is for him to develop into a number-two or -three for a superstar, then he's having to do that while playing next to a raw, inefficient player who's taking superstar touches. No, that's not shitting on Wemby, but this isn't Maxey/Embiid or Parker/Duncan. This isn't a young talent finding his way next to an established superstar. This is a guy who was told he'd have to grow into a first option trying to figure out what role he needs to play with an uber-talent 20-year-old who himself is trying to define his game. A lot of people are upset that Vassell seems to still think of himself as a first-option, but it might actually help Wemby is Vassell were that guy. Maybe it'd help both of them if someone else were able to come in and be that guy for a couple of years.

I really wish Jimmy Butler were available. Even at his age, he seems like the perfect guy to push Devin to the next level and provide support for Wemby while also leaving ample room for Victor to grow.

[Mr. Body]

He's a chucker that occasionally gets hot like he did tonight. He's a positive PnR PnP player. He's a minus player 1 on 1 and open court play. He plays well off Wemby and if he has any future, it's there. He's simply not a game changer in 1 on 1.

We can get on Vassell in a lot of ways, but he's not a chucker. I almost wish he'd call his own number and put up more shots. He doesn't.

[Chinook]

He's hitting a rookie wall, too. This is a ton of games.

I don't think you're wrong that this is a lot of games, but I think his conditioning has been a concern all year. He should probably stay in the 20s for now with the idea that he'll go hard for every second he's out there. I'm glad fouls are no longer a big inhibitor of his play time, but it looks like getting him to be a big-minute guys is still a process.

[Atl Spur]

Vassell is still improving as well. Folks don't appreciate that he's also not being put in an ideal position on the current roster. If the goal is for him to develop into a number-two or -three for a superstar, then he's having to do that while playing next to a raw, inefficient player who's taking superstar touches. No, that's not shitting on Wemby, but this isn't Maxey/Embiid or Parker/Duncan. This isn't a young talent finding his way next to an established superstar. This is a guy who was told he'd have to grow into a first option trying to figure out what role he needs to play with an uber-talent 20-year-old who himself is trying to define his game. A lot of people are upset that Vassell seems to still think of himself as a first-option, but it might actually help Wemby is Vassell were that guy. Maybe it'd help both of them if someone else were able to come in and be that guy for a couple of years.

I really wish Jimmy Butler were available. Even at his age, he seems like the perfect guy to push Devin to the next level and provide support for Wemby while also leaving ample room for Victor to grow.

This^

[offset formation]

We can get on Vassell in a lot of ways, but he's not a chucker. I almost wish he'd call his own number and put up more shots. He doesn't.

To me a chucker is someone that has clearly made up their mind they're shooting a 3, defense be damned or open teammate be damned. It's clear from his body language and lack of looking at his teammates he does that waaay tooo often. I absolutely detest his fast break 3 point shot.

On the positive front, I really enjoy his game when he plays off ball moving to get open for a nice midrange game FT line extended and in. He plays and finishes well off Wemby and Tre and even Sochan.

His game should focus there. He's simply not the guy we need shooting fastbreak 3 pointers.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know the best way forward. Thank God Victor seems to understand this is going to take time, that he trusts the franchise, that this is his long-time fandom, and that we've been to the promised land before. Personally, I'm shocked by how terrible the team is. I did think they'd be more competitive, at least a little. Right now, they're going to lose more games than they did last year. Turns out Vassell, Keldon, Collins are no where close to being able to lead a team and probably never will. I don't really blame the second year players.

It's easy to see teams that were pretty awful not long ago who are doing well now. OKC and Orlando come to mind, and both did it through the draft. Both are choked with high draft picks. Neither really has a ton of veterans helping out. They just took their licks, made their picks, kept going. The Spurs got an accelerated timeline in one way -- the freakish luck in getting Wembanyama. Orlando made two shrewd picks in Wagner and Banchero and the other players are coming around. OKC get super-ass lucky to get SGA and Jalen Williams as well as that #2 that gave them Chet.

I don't think the Spurs can really expect to attract veterans until they start winning. Until then you've got to imprison them by way of existing contracts and you'd probably need a few to get it to work. Either you do what Atlanta supposedly did to get Murray -- just keep upping the ante until you change a team's mind that didn't want to trade from the start -- or you peel off expensive contracts from teams that have to dump them. The last possibility is what Houston did to success -- overpay for veterans to support the youth. I think this last is no longer possible for us.

Just don't know who those vets would be. To me, it's not Tyus Jones. It would have to be Chris Paul. That sort of guy. But you don't want to overpay for a Mikal Bridges because he's a full seven years older than Wembanyama and most of our players. You'd be paying for a guy who isn't there when we actually need him.

So... totally open to scraping off vets if it takes small bushels of our SRPs. Otherwise it just seems like you have to build by the draft and largely what we have. I hope what they see in our raw materials is more than what we see now. And we keep building.

[scott]

I think too many people believe it's just a given that Wemby would benefit from the Spurs adjusting its posture and that he's being held back by the team tanking. I don't think people appreciate that on a more competitive roster, Wemby wouldn't have the same freedom or have the same usage he does now. It's easy to say guys like Keldon and Vassell should defer to Wemby and be mad at them continuing to try to play the roles they were groomed for for years. But on a roster that had legit productive players, the turnovers, the breaking off plays to try to get his points, the evanescent screens, the bad threes, the attempted cherry-picking, the lack of conditioning -- that wouldn't work. The dude is raw -- yes, still. What he can do at times and what he'd be able to do in serious games are different. Just as OKC's talent allows Chet to be the modern-big equivalent of Danny Green, the Spurs' lack of talent is what lets Wemby test his limits with impunity.

The team is not a "good PG" away from turning their roster around. Jones is a solid PG who fits well with Victor for now. The reality is that Wemby is having a mixed impact this season, which is actually better than most rookies (even ROYs from previous seasons) but isn't there yet in terms of a competitive roster. He's 20 years old. The reason why Pop talked about how long it took guys like Jordan and Jokic to win titles is to push against the notion some people have that Wemby's potential is so superlative that he shouldn't require the same grace to figure out what he's doing. Pretending that Wemby is farther along than he is does him a disservice. The Spurs might well have drafted a mega-star, but even mega-stars don't win early and need time to figure it out.

A lot of people want the Spurs to be a good team with Wemby as their best player. That's not really a realistic option right now. They could potentially be a VERY good team with Wemby as their second-best player, or maybe a strong one if he's one of three near-equal players. But with him as the unquestioned best player who gets most of the touches wherever he wants with the team being oriented toward feeding him? That's probably not a good team.

So if the Spurs are truly trying to accelerate the timeline, they need to go for a guy who can be the best player on a title team. That's really only Curry or James in terms of even remotely feasible options. Trades for like Quickley, Murray or even Mikal aren't there. That's how you get a team that's extremely similar to this one but that might win a few more games, like how the Hawks were basically the same team after acquiring Murray, how the Nets still suck with Bridges. Alternatively, they can not piss away the draft like so many want them to and try to find the Klay Thompson to Wemby's Curry. Only PATFO knows if there are prospects in this draft they think are worth tanking for. They can and have been wrong, obviously, but the front office has to proceed with the belief that they can execute the tasks they assign themselves. It shouldn't require saying that the FO should be confident in what they do rather than doing things they don't think will work.

There are always multiple ways a team can proceed. I wanted them to take a different path going into last summer. I didn't want them to take this path. But now that they have, they need to actually see it through. Next summer, I want them to combine their draft winnings with an aggressive attempt to add a legit piece to their starting lineup. They may choose to do something completely different. I hope they execute whatever they choose to do.

These are great thoughts, as usual from your posts.

However, they are somewhat contra to what the data tells us. The Spurs starting and finishing line-ups since Tre has been starting and Wemby have been generally very good (certainly a lot better than our overall record dictates). The problem is that there are only so minutes that Wemby (due to both the restrictions and his conditioning) can play. The wheels completely fall of when he is off the court. That would seem to suggest there is a major talent deficiency that needs to be addressed. I think we all agree with that, it’s just a matter of how that gets addressed.

I wholeheartedly agree with the approach you want to see this summer. We’ll see if the Spurs do that or if next year’s roster is essentially the same as this years, plus whoever the draft, in a “be patient” roster building philosophy. This is where fans will continue to grumble, and rightfully so if you ask me. It’s easy for Pop to say “be patient” when he’s the one delivering subpar performances. I just want to see some accountability. No other coach or FO would be rewarded for 5 years of missing the playoffs the way this one has. Let’s start seeing a plan in motion, let’s start seeing a team be assembled that doesn’t create such a massive on/off for Wemby - because currently that is where the games are being lost.

[vy65]

Vassell is still improving as well. Folks don't appreciate that he's also not being put in an ideal position on the current roster. If the goal is for him to develop into a number-two or -three for a superstar, then he's having to do that while playing next to a raw, inefficient player who's taking superstar touches. No, that's not shitting on Wemby, but this isn't Maxey/Embiid or Parker/Duncan. This isn't a young talent finding his way next to an established superstar. This is a guy who was told he'd have to grow into a first option trying to figure out what role he needs to play with an uber-talent 20-year-old who himself is trying to define his game. A lot of people are upset that Vassell seems to still think of himself as a first-option, but it might actually help Wemby is Vassell were that guy. Maybe it'd help both of them if someone else were able to come in and be that guy for a couple of years.

I really wish Jimmy Butler were available. Even at his age, he seems like the perfect guy to push Devin to the next level and provide support for Wemby while also leaving ample room for Victor to grow.

This is a simultaneously amazing and down-syndrome tier take at the same type. I think #22 would be the ideal vet, not just for Devin, but guys like Keldon and Jeremy as well. Absolutely agreed there.

That being said, the frustration many (if not most) feel is that, yes, neither Wemby nor Devin, nor Jeremy, nor most anyone else on the roster has been put in an ideal situation. And there’s a reason, and someone, at fault for that. Many who clamored for vet leadership, or a quick end to the point-Sochan experiment, or outright termination of assholes like Branham realize that leadership woefully failed this team under the pathetic excuse of “development” this year. You’re almost hitting on the core of people’s frustrations, but still missing it: the FO should have known better and taken steps to help this team better develop this year. It was outwardly negligent in that regard.

[vy65]

I don't know the best way forward. Thank God Victor seems to understand this is going to take time, that he trusts the franchise, that this is his long-time fandom, and that we've been to the promised land before. Personally, I'm shocked by how terrible the team is. I did think they'd be more competitive, at least a little. Right now, they're going to lose more games than they did last year. Turns out Vassell, Keldon, Collins are no where close to being able to lead a team and probably never will. I don't really blame the second year players.

It's easy to see teams that were pretty awful not long ago who are doing well now. OKC and Orlando come to mind, and both did it through the draft. Both are choked with high draft picks. Neither really has a ton of veterans helping out. They just took their licks, made their picks, kept going. The Spurs got an accelerated timeline in one way -- the freakish luck in getting Wembanyama. Orlando made two shrewd picks in Wagner and Banchero and the other players are coming around. OKC get super-ass lucky to get SGA and Jalen Williams as well as that #2 that gave them Chet.

I don't think the Spurs can really expect to attract veterans until they start winning. Until then you've got to imprison them by way of existing contracts and you'd probably need a few to get it to work. Either you do what Atlanta supposedly did to get Murray -- just keep upping the ante until you change a team's mind that didn't want to trade from the start -- or you peel off expensive contracts from teams that have to dump them. The last possibility is what Houston did to success -- overpay for veterans to support the youth. I think this last is no longer possible for us.

Just don't know who those vets would be. To me, it's not Tyus Jones. It would have to be Chris Paul. That sort of guy. But you don't want to overpay for a Mikal Bridges because he's a full seven years older than Wembanyama and most of our players. You'd be paying for a guy who isn't there when we actually need him.

So... totally open to scraping off vets if it takes small bushels of our SRPs. Otherwise it just seems like you have to build by the draft and largely what we have. I hope what they see in our raw materials is more than what we see now. And we keep building.

OKC’s best player, an MVP candidate, was drafted by the Clippers and acquired in a trade for Paul George. Seriously, stop posting.

[Kawhi Duncan]

I think too many people believe it's just a given that Wemby would benefit from the Spurs adjusting its posture and that he's being held back by the team tanking. I don't think people appreciate that on a more competitive roster, Wemby wouldn't have the same freedom or have the same usage he does now. It's easy to say guys like Keldon and Vassell should defer to Wemby and be mad at them continuing to try to play the roles they were groomed for for years. But on a roster that had legit productive players, the turnovers, the breaking off plays to try to get his points, the evanescent screens, the bad threes, the attempted cherry-picking, the lack of conditioning -- that wouldn't work. The dude is raw -- yes, still. What he can do at times and what he'd be able to do in serious games are different. Just as OKC's talent allows Chet to be the modern-big equivalent of Danny Green, the Spurs' lack of talent is what lets Wemby test his limits with impunity.

The team is not a "good PG" away from turning their roster around. Jones is a solid PG who fits well with Victor for now. The reality is that Wemby is having a mixed impact this season, which is actually better than most rookies (even ROYs from previous seasons) but isn't there yet in terms of a competitive roster. He's 20 years old. The reason why Pop talked about how long it took guys like Jordan and Jokic to win titles is to push against the notion some people have that Wemby's potential is so superlative that he shouldn't require the same grace to figure out what he's doing. Pretending that Wemby is farther along than he is does him a disservice. The Spurs might well have drafted a mega-star, but even mega-stars don't win early and need time to figure it out.

A lot of people want the Spurs to be a good team with Wemby as their best player. That's not really a realistic option right now. They could potentially be a VERY good team with Wemby as their second-best player, or maybe a strong one if he's one of three near-equal players. But with him as the unquestioned best player who gets most of the touches wherever he wants with the team being oriented toward feeding him? That's probably not a good team.

So if the Spurs are truly trying to accelerate the timeline, they need to go for a guy who can be the best player on a title team. That's really only Curry or James in terms of even remotely feasible options. Trades for like Quickley, Murray or even Mikal aren't there. That's how you get a team that's extremely similar to this one but that might win a few more games, like how the Hawks were basically the same team after acquiring Murray, how the Nets still suck with Bridges. Alternatively, they can not piss away the draft like so many want them to and try to find the Klay Thompson to Wemby's Curry. Only PATFO knows if there are prospects in this draft they think are worth tanking for. They can and have been wrong, obviously, but the front office has to proceed with the belief that they can execute the tasks they assign themselves. It shouldn't require saying that the FO should be confident in what they do rather than doing things they don't think will work.

There are always multiple ways a team can proceed. I wanted them to take a different path going into last summer. I didn't want them to take this path. But now that they have, they need to actually see it through. Next summer, I want them to combine their draft winnings with an aggressive attempt to add a legit piece to their starting lineup. They may choose to do something completely different. I hope they execute whatever they choose to do.

Ur ignoring the fact that we CLEARLY don't have an offensive system built around Wemby... Pop doesn't know how to use him... He is just used to set screens and run around trying to get open... For a HOF coach that's not a good look... Every great rookie has their flaws, but you at least see what the plan is around then offensively... Pop has them playing pick-up ball... To have an offensive system that rarely puts Wemby or Vassel in positions to score easily is insane... Every great coach has a point where the game has lost them, and I think it has been there with pop for a few years now... There's no way we should be among the worst defensive teams in the league regardless of our personnel... The GOAT coach should be able to have this roster be at LEAST a middle of the pack defensive team... He is coaching as if it's still 2003... Everyone can shoot now and he constantly have our players in drop coverage off ball to defend against drives and to help in the pain... That's why for years we have been the worst team at guardiang the 3... And why teams like the magic always have amazing shooting games against us despite being a horrible shooting team... Most of their shots were wide open

[JPB]

Truth is it's been 2 years Pop is having fun teaching the kids fundamentals and towards the end of the second year, the team doesn't win more. And it's not for lack of trying. Last year was abvious tanking with the funky lineups and no defense but they're really giving their best shots thsi year after adding Wemby, but look worse...

So the question is, why? Are we sure Pop is teaching the right "fundamentals" to win a NBA game in 2024 or like Scott brilliantly joked about and a post yesterday with his "Karate Kid" analogy, he's just having fun teaching "phylosophical" fundementals, in a vacuum, for the beauty of it and for himself, rather than what makes you win in 2024, which is completely different than 20 or even 10 years ago...

Because that's obviously not working. They freaking suck. You can preach patience, but it's legitimate at this point to ask yourself if Pop is really the right coach for this team, or any team in 2024 NBA (from a Pop supporter). What if he wasn't, and that team, these players were going in the wrong direction. Somebody mentioned the fact any other coach would have been fired after the failed Sochan experiment, and that's probably true... So giving the weight Pop has on this franchise, until what point you start to question his abilities and wonder if he's still the right coach? Or is his credit illimited?

And who would have the power and leeway to fire him? Or can Pop only fire himself? Would he be lucid enough for that? That's a tricky and dangerous situation, cos I'm smelling a bit of delusion in his L'Equipe ITV if he really believe he can make by himself and the power his brain the core of the current roster a contender... Or do you consider he's NECESSARILY right because he's Pop, a coach who got his credit for coaching contenders but never have to deal with a rebuild in his career?

Is that safe? Because so far, that doesn't look good and Pop looks a bit lost at times, including in press conferences... And nobody, including the spurs, were expecting sucking like that.

[dbestpro]

Pop is the Joe Biden of basketball. That is not a compliment. Nor is it a GOP endorsement. Most of them are too damn old too.

[LeBowen]

JBP posted this in Orlando game thread, but I think it's more appropriate that I reply here.


And it's not just Wemby... A 4 page game thread for a game with Victor freaking Wembanayama... People don't even care anymore, they lost interest, certainly reason why Pop gave that ITV to L'Equipe, since they had wind of the lost of interest and frustration in France, and honestly for all the NBA fans... Wemby is not just your random top rookie you develop in 4 years, he's already ready and should be your PRIORITY, not teaching freaking fundamentals to 4-5 year role players who may not be there in 2 years... And it really doesn't feel like Wemby is spurs priority right now. They don't respect the kid talent and dedication to the game and being great, potentially sucking him off of a ROTY, which I'm sure spurs don't care about. But what about Vic?

That was exactly the point I was trying to make in Trae topic when you were adamant you don't want him.
PATFO can't allow another bad season. Anything less than competing to get in the play-in the next season would be horrible.
What does Wemby need to utilize his potential to the fullest? A competent point guard.
Doesn't have to be Trae, doesn't have to be an all-star, just has to be someone who will be aware during every single possession that his main job is to get the best out of everyone, with Wemby being the priority.
We can talk about improving internally, but eventually losing gets to everyone and affects their psyche. When you lose so much in consecutive seasons, it ruins players. Some of them never recover. Then you become the Pistons.
They had five straight years in the lottery, including three top5 picks and they're somehow worse than they were five years ago.
I don't care about Flaggs, Boozers or whoever is the next big thing. We 14% lucked into the biggest thing (literally) in the past 20 years and we better make sure to utilize him properly.

We already have 1st, 9th and 11th pick on the roster as our three best players.
We'll get another top5 pick this year, maybe two depending on the Raptors lottery luck. And considering that it's not a draft with order of picks set in stone, Spurs can easily trade up and get anyone they want.
Being in top5 range the next season would be fatal from every way possible. Mentality, player happiness, attendance and thus financial.

I'm not saying that Spurs should pull a Mark Cuban and trade away all the picks just for the sake of it, but before the next season starts, we simply need at least one competent player who'd instantly change the landscape of a team.
Can't expect to go from 20 to 50 wins with just one trade, maybe that player will just be a temporary solution for a couple of seasons to elevate the team.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think too many people believe it's just a given that Wemby would benefit from the Spurs adjusting its posture and that he's being held back by the team tanking. I don't think people appreciate that on a more competitive roster, Wemby wouldn't have the same freedom or have the same usage he does now. It's easy to say guys like Keldon and Vassell should defer to Wemby and be mad at them continuing to try to play the roles they were groomed for for years. But on a roster that had legit productive players, the turnovers, the breaking off plays to try to get his points, the evanescent screens, the bad threes, the attempted cherry-picking, the lack of conditioning -- that wouldn't work. The dude is raw -- yes, still. What he can do at times and what he'd be able to do in serious games are different. Just as OKC's talent allows Chet to be the modern-big equivalent of Danny Green, the Spurs' lack of talent is what lets Wemby test his limits with impunity.

The team is not a "good PG" away from turning their roster around. Jones is a solid PG who fits well with Victor for now. The reality is that Wemby is having a mixed impact this season, which is actually better than most rookies (even ROYs from previous seasons) but isn't there yet in terms of a competitive roster. He's 20 years old. The reason why Pop talked about how long it took guys like Jordan and Jokic to win titles is to push against the notion some people have that Wemby's potential is so superlative that he shouldn't require the same grace to figure out what he's doing. Pretending that Wemby is farther along than he is does him a disservice. The Spurs might well have drafted a mega-star, but even mega-stars don't win early and need time to figure it out.

A lot of people want the Spurs to be a good team with Wemby as their best player. That's not really a realistic option right now. They could potentially be a VERY good team with Wemby as their second-best player, or maybe a strong one if he's one of three near-equal players. But with him as the unquestioned best player who gets most of the touches wherever he wants with the team being oriented toward feeding him? That's probably not a good team.

So if the Spurs are truly trying to accelerate the timeline, they need to go for a guy who can be the best player on a title team. That's really only Curry or James in terms of even remotely feasible options. Trades for like Quickley, Murray or even Mikal aren't there. That's how you get a team that's extremely similar to this one but that might win a few more games, like how the Hawks were basically the same team after acquiring Murray, how the Nets still suck with Bridges. Alternatively, they can not piss away the draft like so many want them to and try to find the Klay Thompson to Wemby's Curry. Only PATFO knows if there are prospects in this draft they think are worth tanking for. They can and have been wrong, obviously, but the front office has to proceed with the belief that they can execute the tasks they assign themselves. It shouldn't require saying that the FO should be confident in what they do rather than doing things they don't think will work.

There are always multiple ways a team can proceed. I wanted them to take a different path going into last summer. I didn't want them to take this path. But now that they have, they need to actually see it through. Next summer, I want them to combine their draft winnings with an aggressive attempt to add a legit piece to their starting lineup. They may choose to do something completely different. I hope they execute whatever they choose to do.

This is the closest to a logical defense of what PATFO and the coaching staff are doing. But it still doesn't inspire confidence in the method because of contradictory statements by the coaching staff and Pop and also 2. Lack of development in two of the youngsters in Sochan and Branham and 3. The stagnation of Keldon Johnson. And largely poor choices by the GM in both drafting and using free agency so far. In contrast similarly placed teams like the Jazz and the Knicks (a few years ago) have been much better in terms of finding and hoarding talent (in the case of the Jazz) and using free agency/trades to get fighting components to compete (the Knicks) without giving up any draft assets and in fact gaining such assets.

The Spurs had a stroke of very good luck in getting Wemby but they have shown complete lack of imagination since then. The cache of good will for PATFO will get close to empty if they don't use the coming offseason to get better talent around Wemby than what they have got in the form of flotsam and jetsam beyond Vassell, Jones, Wesley (to some extent) and an inconsistent Keldon.

[RC_Drunkford]

It is yet to be seen if Devin can come to the realization that he is (at best) the 2nd option.

A legit PG should really help Devin as much as anyone... but if in two years (or perhaps this time next year) he is playing the same ol' chucker ball, we'll have to have a real conversation.


Mostly because Giannis had one of the greatest finals series ever that year. But still, I don't think Vassell is on Middleton's trajectory at this point even if they had comparable numbers per game was in their 4th year, which was my point. And shit Jason Terry was the second best player on a title team and if Terry is Vassells ceiling we're fucked :lol

Besides, Holiday was the 2nd best player on that Bucks team imo

Holiday averaged 17 PPG while Middleton averaged 23 PPG. It's pretty clear who was the 2nd option. And I don't even see Devin as a 2nd option. I think he's a good 3rd option and would really shine once we have a real point guard who gets him open catch and shoot jump shots instead of Devin trying to make tough shots all the time. Same with his defense, once we have a real defensive unit his team defense should look a lot better and you don't have to play him on the opponents 2nd best player, because he's not a stopper.

You can give him those pick & roll and iso posessions once Wemby gets subbed out, so he can score on bench players. Meanwhile giving him those actions and that usage, so he can develop his offensive game is a good thing and will only make him better. Him being in year 4 doesn't mean his game can't grow further, you can clearly see that there's still plenty of room for improvement. But I'll never see him as a player you run the offense through. And the pecking order needs to be established at some point, although that's mostly on Pop.


Mostly because Giannis had one of the greatest finals series ever that year.

And Devin plays with Wemby, who can have that type of series as well. Which means if he reaches Middleton level that's enough to be a #2 or #3 sidekick on a championship team

[Mr. Body]

OKC’s best player, an MVP candidate, was drafted by the Clippers and acquired in a trade for Paul George. Seriously, stop posting.

No fucking shit.

[Mr. Body]

"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Spurs fans: What an incredible philosophy. It takes effort to build what you want and you don't always see what's happening. What a great franchise.

Also Spurs fans: What the fuck. Why isn't [some immediate thing] happening.

Y'all just need to follow some other team.

[Atl Spur]

"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Spurs fans: What an incredible philosophy. It takes effort to build what you want and you don't always see what's happening. What a great franchise.

Also Spurs fans: What the fuck. Why isn't [some immediate thing] happening.

Y'all just need to follow some other team.

Big man, don’t let these clowns stress you. There are plenty on this board who likes to talk ball.

[LeBowen]

LMA and DDR were pounding the rock for three years and all we got were 10th seeds.
In the end it all worked out because we lucked into Wemby, but pounding the rock doesn't work if there's noone (as in good players) to pound it with.
I doubt PATFO was planning for Wemby in 2018 when they chose mediocrity (DDR) over having a proper rebuild.

We pounded the rock with Forbes.
Lonnie also had his fair share of pounding.
So did various other scrubs like Lyles etc.
Keldon's been at it for almost five years now and he still has zero vision and is horrible defensively.

It was easy to pound the rock with Timmy and two elite playmakers with high IQ.
You can pound the rock to turn a good playoff team into a championship team.

You can't pound the rock to go from worst team in the league to a championship team.
Theoretically you can, but we'll see how Wemby reacts if we're in for another season of less than 30 wins.

[K...]

LMA and DDR were pounding the rock for three years and all we got were 10th seeds.
In the end it all worked out because we lucked into Wemby, but pounding the rock doesn't work if there's noone (as in good players) to pound it with.
I doubt PATFO was planning for Wemby in 2018 when they chose mediocrity (DDR) over having a proper rebuild.

We pounded the rock with Forbes.
Lonnie also had his fair share of pounding.
So did various other scrubs like Lyles etc.
Keldon's been at it for almost five years now and he still has zero vision and is horrible defensively.

It was easy to pound the rock with Timmy and two elite playmakers with high IQ.
You can pound the rock to turn a good playoff team into a championship team.

You can't pound the rock to go from worst team in the league to a championship team.
Theoretically you can, but we'll see how Wemby reacts if we're in for another season of less than 30 wins.

Ok so fix it.

[vy65]

"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Spurs fans: What an incredible philosophy. It takes effort to build what you want and you don't always see what's happening. What a great franchise.

Also Spurs fans: What the fuck. Why isn't [some immediate thing] happening.

Y'all just need to follow some other team.

^ Male Karen

[itzsoweezee]

Pounding the rock is embracing incompetence. This guy knows basketball!

[poopbox]

Vassell is still improving as well. Folks don't appreciate that he's also not being put in an ideal position on the current roster. If the goal is for him to develop into a number-two or -three for a superstar, then he's having to do that while playing next to a raw, inefficient player who's taking superstar touches. No, that's not shitting on Wemby, but this isn't Maxey/Embiid or Parker/Duncan. This isn't a young talent finding his way next to an established superstar. This is a guy who was told he'd have to grow into a first option trying to figure out what role he needs to play with an uber-talent 20-year-old who himself is trying to define his game. A lot of people are upset that Vassell seems to still think of himself as a first-option, but it might actually help Wemby is Vassell were that guy. Maybe it'd help both of them if someone else were able to come in and be that guy for a couple of years.

I really wish Jimmy Butler were available. Even at his age, he seems like the perfect guy to push Devin to the next level and provide support for Wemby while also leaving ample room for Victor to grow.

I keep seeing posters here bring this up about Devin. That he is somehow being held back by this roster. I don't see it. He is a guy who shots are based on if he can get to spots he likes on the floor. If he gets to them he is shooting it almost regardless of anything else happening on the court. If he doesn't get to those spots, he probably not shooting it regardless of what happens on the court. I don't see a guy like that changing very much based on what changes you make to the team around him.

I'm not even sure his shot quality would change all that much on a different team, since he likes to dribble into and take so many contested jumpers. I think people see those types of shots and blame them on his teammates "not creating another spacing", where as I think that no matter how much spacing you give Devin if he comes off a screen around the freethrow line and his defender is not on his hip he shooting it and what is happening around him doesn't matter that much.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, a lot of Devin's work on offense seems to have been him practicing certain dribble moves that he falls into, and less reacting to the game. Hopefully next year he shows more reactivity and less predetermination.

[rankingtear]

Ur ignoring the fact that we CLEARLY don't have an offensive system built around Wemby... Pop doesn't know how to use him... He is just used to set screens and run around trying to get open... For a HOF coach that's not a good look... Every great rookie has their flaws, but you at least see what the plan is around then offensively... Pop has them playing pick-up ball... To have an offensive system that rarely puts Wemby or Vassel in positions to score easily is insane... Every great coach has a point where the game has lost them, and I think it has been there with pop for a few years now... There's no way we should be among the worst defensive teams in the league regardless of our personnel... The GOAT coach should be able to have this roster be at LEAST a middle of the pack defensive team... He is coaching as if it's still 2003... Everyone can shoot now and he constantly have our players in drop coverage off ball to defend against drives and to help in the pain... That's why for years we have been the worst team at guardiang the 3... And why teams like the magic always have amazing shooting games against us despite being a horrible shooting team... Most of their shots were wide open

You can't really develop an offensive system yet , there is just nothing there that is elite. It is still early development for him on offense, hopefully he develops a spot on the floor he can score consistently aside from being a roller.

[JPB]

LMA and DDR were pounding the rock for three years and all we got were 10th seeds.
In the end it all worked out because we lucked into Wemby, but pounding the rock doesn't work if there's noone (as in good players) to pound it with.
I doubt PATFO was planning for Wemby in 2018 when they chose mediocrity (DDR) over having a proper rebuild.

We pounded the rock with Forbes.
Lonnie also had his fair share of pounding.
So did various other scrubs like Lyles etc.
Keldon's been at it for almost five years now and he still has zero vision and is horrible defensively.

It was easy to pound the rock with Timmy and two elite playmakers with high IQ.
You can pound the rock to turn a good playoff team into a championship team.



You can't pound the rock to go from worst team in the league to a championship team.
Theoretically you can, but we'll see how Wemby reacts if we're in for another season of less than 30 wins.

That's a great post and the whole point.

They are basically telling you to shut up and put all your faith in a 80 y.o coach who had success with a philosophy that worked 10 to 20 years ago because he "pounded the rock" with 4 future HOFers, but had no sucess "pounding the rock" with lesser players... And you're not a real fan if you don't blindly trust a coach, who hasn't honestly done a great job this year (and the last) in terms of developmment, to turn these kids he's still teaching fundamentals in their 4th or 5th year into a contender thanks to that magical philosophy that didn't work with better players than Keldon, Devin and Tre..

Pop seems lost at times, and so does the team, wiht players who don't seem to understand what they're doing or where they're going...You can pound the rock all you want with a plastic hammer, and see what happens.

[LeBowen]

They are basically telling you to shut up and put all your faith in a 80 y.o coach who had success with a philosophy that worked 10 to 20 years ago because he "pounded the rock" with 4 future HOFers, but had no sucess "pounding the rock" with lesser players... And you're not a real fan if you don't blindly trust him now to turn these kids he's still teaching fundamental in their 4th or 5th year into a contender thanks to that magical philosophy that didn't work with better players than Keldon, Devin and Tre...

If you look around the world of sports, a lot of dynasties and all-time great teams fell off because of the same people that brought them to the top.
Whether it be team owners, managers or coaches, time eventually catches up with everyone. And a lot of those teams never recovered.
It's often hard for people who have been successful for an entire lifteime to realize when it's enough.

Ever since nephew incident there have been way too many questionable moves that set the team back.
All of that was erased in last year's lottery. Still, those failures have to raise questions.
Forgive me for not having full confidence in this front office after all their failures.

PATFO is still in amazing position, but only if they capitalize on it.
Just pounding the rock will not work. We need a couple of masterstrokes.
Picking the right point guard out of this year's class and more importantly making a couple of trades that will change the landscape of this roster.
Those trades don't have to include star players, but we need something. Trotting out this same roster with a rookie point guard will result in another wasted year.

[Spursfanfromafar]

That's a great post and the whole point.

They are basically telling you to shut up and put all your faith in a 80 y.o coach who had success with a philosophy that worked 10 to 20 years ago because he "pounded the rock" with 4 future HOFers, but had no sucess "pounding the rock" with lesser players... And you're not a real fan if you don't blindly trust a coach, who hasn't honestly done a great job this year (and the last) in terms of developmment, to turn these kids he's still teaching fundamentals in their 4th or 5th year into a contender thanks to that magical philosophy that didn't work with better players than Keldon, Devin and Tre..

Pop seems lost at times, and so does the team, wiht players who don't seem to understand what they're doing or where they're going...You can pound the rock all you want with a plastic hammer, and see what happens.

I actually have issues more with PATFO as a front office than PATFO as a coaching unit. If pounding the rock is only possible with HOFers.. we might not have seen players like Murray becoming an all-star, White becoming a borderline All Star, Poeltl being really good when he was in SA, Anderson becoming a key contributor as a role player, and even Jonathan Simmons becoming an NBA player. Heck, just the White/Murray and even Lonnie Walker stories are enough to confirm that Pop is a great coach at moulding middling talent and bringing the best out of them. Among the current lot, I would say Vassell and Tre Jones have shown significant improvement from what they were.. a few years ago.. while Wesley seems to be on the path of improvement. Keldon is more of an exception in the way his defense has stagnated .. he is clearly a better offensive player than he was before.. more well rounded in terms of passing/ playmaking.

So, yeah.. Poundingtherock (TM) isn't the issue. Getting the right talent is. I am also willing to give Pop the benefit of doubt for the Sochan experiment. It was worth trying to make a better player out of Sochan by honing his passing/ playmaking. It was the wrong move, but it was worth trying.

My problem is with the front office. They wasted a valuable pick by drafting Primo. And they made a mistake in trading for Derozan to play with Aldridge which was a poor fit. They also made a mistake in drafting Samanic at 19, when they could have got Clarke, Poole or Claxton or even Nassir Little. Their dragnet for picking role players/ FAs has resulted in poor selections - from DeMar Carroll to Stanley Johnson to Zollins etc.

All their mistakes were more or less negated when they lucked into Wemby. But unless they do a far better job of drafting talent, using FA and trade markets imaginatively, their mistakes will go on to hurt them even more. The FO is the real issue for me.

I think the coaching isn't that much of a problem. It is evident in how Wemby himself is growing into such an efficient player. Or how Pop got minutes restrictions for Wemby and that made him learn to maximise his efficiency in the minutes he played. There are still a lot of steps for Wemby to cross before becoming a superstar and one of them is to have the conditioning/ stamina/ fitness to play longer minutes and multiple games in a small span of time and do it very well. It will come for him as he grows, but Pop is the right coach for him to get these going. And it is evident that Pop is grooming him well into becoming a better player. Every opponent that the Spurs face say this too.. that he has the right coaching surrounding him and that is helping him.

Again, to reiterate, its Pop as the President and Wright as the GM who need to pull up their socks. They have to be ruthless in the offseason and find far better pieces than Branham, Osman, Zollins, Champagnie, Mamu, Graham, and if need be, even Sochan to back-up Wemby. They shouldn't only use the draft to get better. That would be folly and would increase Wemby's frustration. I hope RC Buford is more involved too. I trust him more than Wright.

[scott]

That's a great post and the whole point.

They are basically telling you to shut up and put all your faith in a 80 y.o coach who had success with a philosophy that worked 10 to 20 years ago because he "pounded the rock" with 4 future HOFers, but had no sucess "pounding the rock" with lesser players... And you're not a real fan if you don't blindly trust a coach, who hasn't honestly done a great job this year (and the last) in terms of developmment, to turn these kids he's still teaching fundamentals in their 4th or 5th year into a contender thanks to that magical philosophy that didn't work with better players than Keldon, Devin and Tre..

Pop seems lost at times, and so does the team, wiht players who don't seem to understand what they're doing or where they're going...You can pound the rock all you want with a plastic hammer, and see what happens.

What an amazingly perfect analogy.

You see a frail old man pounding away at a massive piece of granite with a plastic toy hammer... it is fair to ask, "what is that old man doing?"

Old Man: I'm pounding the rock! Just be patient!

The Old Man's friends: He is pounding the rock. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. You need to be patient. You see, this old man broke a rock 20 years ago [they forget to mention: it was a different composition of rock; the old man was of much different body and mind; and he was equipped with state of the art, world-class tools at the time].

If you're going to pound the rock, at least use the proper tools and put them in the hands of the right people.

[Atl Spur]

That's a great post and the whole point.

They are basically telling you to shut up and put all your faith in a 80 y.o coach who had success with a philosophy that worked 10 to 20 years ago because he "pounded the rock" with 4 future HOFers, but had no sucess "pounding the rock" with lesser players... And you're not a real fan if you don't blindly trust a coach, who hasn't honestly done a great job this year (and the last) in terms of developmment, to turn these kids he's still teaching fundamentals in their 4th or 5th year into a contender thanks to that magical philosophy that didn't work with better players than Keldon, Devin and Tre..

Pop seems lost at times, and so does the team, wiht players who don't seem to understand what they're doing or where they're going...You can pound the rock all you want with a plastic hammer, and see what happens.

Brother, this year is a teaching and coaching type thing than anything else…… these boys are learning there are only more mountains behind mountains.

[spurraider21]

Did you watch the game? Wemby looked dead out there. It seems obvious the minutes restriction was good for him or in the very least that he's not at all used to playing without it.
was obviously not a very serious response to the well thought out post you had put up.

i do agree his conditioning is a problem, and this is something that we've noticed even prior to the minutes restriction, but it was even more obvious before he switched a center and was sprinting around trying to leap at every 3 point attempt then sprint down the court before rebounds were secured. the problem with the strict minutes restriction is there leaves no room for feel. what if its a close game and you just want him in there for a few more minutes? im ok with him playing between 28-30 minutes most nights. 22 is just too low unless he's actually hurting. even if he's not playing very effectively, you have to give him opportunities to play through adversity. of course, the caveat is if pop was legitimately pissed at him and actually benched him for performance as a teaching moment, and not just a "hey man, this just doesnt feel like your night, take the rest of it off." because thats not a good lesson.

i also agree that right now it would be pretty tough to assemble a good, competing team with wemby as its best player. he still lacks consistency on offense. on a given night, i have no clue how he's going to score. im not even sure he does. even when he catches the ball in the midpost, i dont think ive seen him replicate a shot. everything just looks like instinct. like the little underhanded scoop against embiid. i hadnt seen him attempt that before nor since. every shot attempt feels unique, off different footwork, different release point, etc. its great that he has enough touch and feel to be able to score in a wild assortment of ways, but he does need to develop a set of comfortable go-to moves he can lean on when things are rough, instead of just putting his head down and trying to dribble through guys.

but as hard as it is to build a great team around wemby right now, its also not like thats the goal. while the lack of talent around him allows him to be in an environment where he can carelessly or sloppily experiment in ways chet cant, he also isnt getting "playoff style basketball" experience at all, because there is no such infrastructure around him. if he was traded for chet yesterday, im not sure he'd know how to play disciplined and mistake free the way chet does.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, a lot of Devin's work on offense seems to have been him practicing certain dribble moves that he falls into, and less reacting to the game. Hopefully next year he shows more reactivity and less predetermination.
those are steps in the process though. an time you practice/drill a specific move, you practice it deliberately knowing you're going to make exactly that move. then you start finding situations in a game where you find yourself in position to put that move to use. do it enough and you start being able to chain moves or improvise more as the footwork and timing becomes more second nature.

kobe wasnt putting people into the post up torture chamber as a 22 year old

[Leetonidas]

"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Spurs fans: What an incredible philosophy. It takes effort to build what you want and you don't always see what's happening. What a great franchise.

Also Spurs fans: What the fuck. Why isn't [some immediate thing] happening.

Y'all just need to follow some other team.

Or you can just let people talk what they want to talk about and stop trying to dictate discussion like you're in charge of anything here. you're always shitting on ST and it's posters, maybe it's you who should go post somewhere else

You also thought this team was gonna win 40 games rofl :lol

[spurraider21]

Or you can just let people talk what they want to talk about and stop trying to dictate discussion like you're in charge of anything here. you're always shitting on ST and it's posters, maybe it's you who should go post somewhere else

You also thought this team was gonna win 40 games rofl :lol
"anyone who bets the under is an idiot"

[Leetonidas]

"anyone who bets the under is an idiot"

Dude always going on about how everyone else doesn't know shit about basketball yet constantly has some of the most horrendous takes in ST history :lol

[Bruno]

Right now, the team around Wembanyama is bad but Victor also sucks as a franchise player. What Victor is doing as a 19/20 years old rookie is just amazing but there are like 20 or 30 NBA players that are better than him right now.

Pop and Spurs' FO task is to follow the pace of Victor growth. If in 2 or 3 years Victor is a top 5 NBA player, he must be surrounded by a high quality supporting cast. On the other hand, having a supporting cast at a contender level this year or next year would be quite a waste with Victor not being able to lead them.

As Pop said, Victor and the team must grow together. They must do it at about the same pace for Spurs to be successful.

[itzsoweezee]

Right now, the team around Wembanyama is bad but Victor also sucks as a franchise player. What Victor is doing as a 19/20 years old rookie is just amazing but there are like 20 or 30 NBA players that are better than him right now.

Pop and Spurs' FO task is to follow the pace of Victor growth. If in 2 or 3 years Victor is a top 5 NBA player, he must be surrounded by a high quality supporting cast. On the other hand, having a supporting cast at a contender level this year or next year would be quite a waste with Victor not being able to lead them.

As Pop said, Victor and the team must grow together. They must do it at about the same pace for Spurs to be successful.

Bro, they have 10 wins! They’re probably not sniffing 20 wins this year. They don’t need to be a contender, but they do need to be competent. There is no benefit to victor playing dysfunctional basketball.

[TD 21]

:lmao At this notion that as Wembanyama presumably graduates throughout the various tiers (top starter to All-Star to All-NBA to MVP), they'll wave a magic wand, sprinkle some pixie dust and go from borderline historically bad to championship contender overnight.

I guess that's why they need to horde the 37 assets for the 3 quarters of a rotation they'll be incorporating in one fell swoop.

Heaven forbid they spare a few now on a player who'll have strong resale value.

[manufan10]

In yesterday's french newspaper L'Equipe , there was an interesting Pop interview. It was done just before the game against Washington on January 29th.



Spurs' strategy draws a lot of comments from those who believe or wish that Spurs were already a top team. How do you react to theses crticism and what is your plan?
You know, people's opinions... They don't know, they don't understand. When they see us drafting someone like Victor, everybody know he is talented. But it's not just about talent. Michael Jordan's first title arrived in his seventh year in the NBA. Nikola Jokic has just won his first ring and it took him eight years. We have the right to hope that things will go faster with Victor, but we can't skip steps. It takes time to shape a team. If it were that easy, you would have a different champion every year. These last twenty years, we find the same franchises at the top. Our cycle of success lasted a long time, it stretched over three decades. But there is a time when you have to start from scratch again. We are at that time.

Do you see any similarities between what you are doing and what OKC has done?
We do exactly the same thing. Sam (Presti) has been great but it took him some years to get to that point. They had many draft picks and are starting to get the benefits from them. We must have the same patience,pick the right players. We are in this process of adding pieces to the puzzle. Some of these pieces will stay forever with Victor. We will also have to use well all the draft picks we have accumulated these last years. But nothing should be rushed. The ones that things should move faster or that don't understand we aren't winning all games.. it says more about them than about basketball.


You said you were in "observation mode" with Wembanayama. What conclusions do you draw about him after half a season especially after moving him to the center spot?
He plays center sometimes, and a lot of people consider him a center because he is the tallest on the floor, but nowadays there is no longer traditional PG or C. Everything is switchable. You will see sometimes Victor isolated on a wing, sometimes in the low block, sometimes in an axial pick and roll. He will be sometimes the ball handler or bring up the ball after a rebound. He does everything, which is exactly what I expect from him. He wants that too and has the skills to do so. This "observation time" was necessary. We didn't know him well enough. Highlights videos are not enough. It took twenty, thirty matches to see where he was comfortable and what was the obvious things to fix. He had to adapt to the roughness of the game, because he had a target on his back and everybody wanted to get physical with him. He had a tendency to dribble in crowded areas, because he's good ball handler, and had a lot of turnovers like that. He quickly understood that he had to dribble less to counter the speed and athleticism of the opponents. Sometimes he is close to the 3 point line on the defensive end, we try to work on ways to have him closer to the ring. He is also discovering his opponents. His career is just at a very early stage. We're working on his 3 point shot, shot selection and consistency. All of that will take time.

Could you have speed up the process by adding one or two veterans?
We decided not do that for two reasons. First, to keep the powder dry, that is to say waiting before spending some money to keep our financial flexibility. Once the core will be set, it will be important to add some free agents. Add a vet this year won't have help us to win the title. It would have been a waste of money and, more importantly, a waste of playing time that we must use to develop other players around Victor. Just look at Devin Vassell, he is becoming great and wasn't at that level when we got him. He gained confidence, BBIQ and has raise his defensive level. Adding a vet would have slow down that process for him and other players. I want to have that core growing and that Victor grows with them.

These quotes go against what Pop said in his opening press conference to start the season. He's gaslighting us into thinking that this was the plan all season. At around the 11 minute mark of his media day he gets asked about winning. He starts of by saying, "It's inherrently obvious that we want to win." "Development is great... adding a player of Victor's ability makes your prospects look better." "This year with development... the important factor to enhance that development is winning. Winning is as important this year as learning was in the past. They need to continue to learnand to add more wins.... it's mandatory... and helpful."

No one was expecting the Spurs to win a title this season. Or even compete for the playoffs. Fans were led to believe that winning was the most important factor here. Last season was supposed to be about development and this year about winning. That has definitely not been the case. Even the first quote about it being inherrently obvious that they want to win. You don't do that by playing a player out of position for a quarter of the season. Fans have the right to be upset and question the direction of the team when your head coach has deviated from what was expressed at the onset of the season.


https://youtu.be/qCdsmcbhEz4?si=MuLd2y4Fr9f3mEIg&t=660

[gambit1990]

As Pop said, Victor and the team must grow together. They must do it at about the same pace for Spurs to be successful.
the problem is this isn't a team that will go anywhere.

this team will have to go through a lot of iterations before victor and the team can grow together.

hopefully their next draft pick works out.

but even then it's just more waiting for wemby.

hopefully the spurs intend on snagging an all-star.

because nba stars are obviously moving more often then ever before. victor is such a great prospect, i truly think a little rushing really won't hurt.

[Bruno]

Bro, they have 10 wins! They’re probably not sniffing 20 wins this year. They don’t need to be a contender, but they do need to be competent. There is no benefit to victor playing dysfunctional basketball.

The benefit is to get a top 6 draft pick.

I'm not a fan at all of Spurs/Pop tanking this season (with things like the Sochan at PG experiment) but this "plan" has this edge.

[exstatic]

These quotes go against what Pop said in his opening press conference to start the season. He's gaslighting us into thinking that this was the plan all season. At around the 11 minute mark of his media day he gets asked about winning. He starts of by saying, "It's inherrently obvious that we want to win." "Development is great... adding a player of Victor's ability makes your prospects look better." "This year with development... the important factor to enhance that development is winning. Winning is as important this year as learning was in the past. They need to continue to learnand to add more wins.... it's mandatory... and helpful."

No one was expecting the Spurs to win a title this season. Or even compete for the playoffs. Fans were led to believe that winning was the most important factor here. Last season was supposed to be about development and this year about winning. That has definitely not been the case. Even the first quote about it being inherrently obvious that they want to win. You don't do that by playing a player out of position for a quarter of the season. Fans have the right to be upset and question the direction of the team when your head coach has deviated from what was expressed at the onset of the season.


https://youtu.be/qCdsmcbhEz4?si=MuLd2y4Fr9f3mEIg&t=660

:rollin Do you really think he’s going to come out in the opening press conference and say “ Yeah, we’re going to be in the tank again”.

[Tyronn Lue]

:rollin Do you really think he’s going to come out in the opening press conference and say “ Yeah, we’re going to be in the tank again”.
Spurs were a contender until Victor tweaked his ankle.

[MultiTroll]

:rollin Do you really think he’s going to come out in the opening press conference and say “ Yeah, we’re going to be in the tank again”.
No.
As much as i believe "I'll retire when Tim Duncan does."

[manufan10]

:rollin Do you really think he’s going to come out in the opening press conference and say “ Yeah, we’re going to be in the tank again”.

You thought they were going to win more games than last year. You even answered "Yes" to if the Spurs were going to make the play-in. Apparently you believed what Pop was selling at the beginning of the season too.


Yes.


Yeah, posters are saying we’ll win 10 more games. We could have won 10 more games last year if we were trying. We beat both Finals teams and Milwaukee. We took Phoenixdown to the wire late in the season. It wasn’t a good team, but it also wasn’t a 22 win team without a LOT of effort.


I don't see how we don't go over 30.5. Portland was low key tanking last year after the deadline, and they won 33 games, finishing with the 5th worst record. They weren't nearly as good defensively as this squad will be.

[Joseph Kony]

:lmao :lmao

[scott]

The quotes manufan10 provided are a stark illustration just how pathetically bad this team is. You take a 22 win team, which was really a 32 team win team, per exstatic... and add Wemby, and turn into a team on pace to win 16 games. That so bad, it's almost impressive.

Yeah, if I were cranking out such terrible results at my job, I'd also be telling people they just need to be patient.

[itzsoweezee]

The benefit is to get a top 6 draft pick.

I'm not a fan at all of Spurs/Pop tanking this season (with things like the Sochan at PG experiment) but this "plan" has this edge.

1. None of this dysfunction was necessary for a top 6 pick.

2. A top 6 pick in this draft is hardly a sure thing. You ask 10 people who are the top 5 players in this year’s draft and you will get 5 different answers. Tanking made a lot of sense last year. This year, they’re not tanking, they’re just terribly coached.

[RC_Drunkford]

You thought they were going to win more games than last year. You even answered "Yes" to if the Spurs were going to make the play-in. Apparently you believed what Pop was selling at the beginning of the season too.

:lmao :lmao now this idiot is acting like he knew all along

[RC_Drunkford]

Pounding the rock is just the Popovich excuse for „trying some dumb shit way too long instead of doing the obvious“ just like not starting a PG for half the season.

This franchise will only see success once the old man is retired. And sadly I think he wants to pound the rock until he can prove that he can win another title without Tim. His ego is that big.

[Seventyniner]

The quotes manufan10 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15876) provided are a stark illustration just how pathetically bad this team is. You take a 22 win team, which was really a 32 team win team, per exstatic... and add Wemby, and turn into a team on pace to win 16 games. That so bad, it's almost impressive.

Record isn't everything. This year's Spurs team is better than last year's in terms of net scoring margin, -8.7 this year and -10.0 last year. Both numbers are putrid but +1.3 is a not insignificant difference.

In addition, the Spurs were at -11.9 before Tre Jones entered the starting lineup (after game 33), meaning they are around -3.1 since then (19 games) if I am doing the math right.

The Sochan at PG experiment was a disaster. With Tre starting at PG, and admittedly an easier schedule, the team is looking at least semi competent.

[spurraider21]

Pounding the rock is just the Popovich excuse for „trying some dumb shit way too long instead of doing the obvious“ just like not starting a PG for half the season.

This franchise will only see success once the old man is retired. And sadly I think he wants to pound the rock until he can prove that he can win another title without Tim. His ego is that big.
for all the pounding the rock talk, he hasnt shown that he can actually build a team, gradually, from scratch. as GM, he took over for a team with a megastar in david robinson that was already a perennial playoff team. as a coach, he took over a team midseason during a tank year, and rookie tim duncan was already freakin all-nba first team, and they won a chip year 2.

im not saying pops not a great coach. you cant deny the spurs transformations through the years, incorporating the big 3, transitioning to the beautiful game, developing kawhi, etc etc.

but for all the talk about not skipping steps the guy walked into situations both as a GM and coach with a lot of skipped steps

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Or you can just let people talk what they want to talk about and stop trying to dictate discussion like you're in charge of anything here. you're always shitting on ST and it's posters, maybe it's you who should go post somewhere else

You also thought this team was gonna win 40 games rofl :lol

https://media.tenor.com/EkVi44wa6EkAAAAe/stand-by-me-dead-body.png

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Pounding the rock is just the Popovich excuse for „trying some dumb shit way too long instead of doing the obvious“ just like not starting a PG for half the season.

This franchise will only see success once the old man is retired. And sadly I think he wants to pound the rock until he can prove that he can win another title without Tim. His ego is that big.

if it works out, i'll take it

[KobesAchilles]

So many people here are ok with being bad that it’s scary. I can’t think of any top 20 of all time that lost this badly their rookie year. Durant maybe? Ofc I never seen a team deliberately sabotage their best player either to focus on other players bc they just “know” that Wemby doesn’t need to be the focus long term. That he’ll be just fine.

Historically this season is a major red flag. Because I still don’t think the Spurs are using Victor correctly. I guess if we are using the Durant comparison all the way with Victor, they had to fire their coach and get a new one in order for him to succeed. Durant correctly left too. We have about 3 more seasons of cheap Victor. We need to make these count. Rookie max Victor is going to eat quite a bit of cap space. And supermax Victor will be much harder to build around financially. Spurs better quit this slow shit when it comes to this. We cannot tank the whole damn time he is on his rookie deal. And tbh if we keep this same exact team next year plus 2 draft picks, we are tanking again next year too

[rankingtear]

So many people here are ok with being bad that it’s scary. I can’t think of any top 20 of all time that lost this badly their rookie year. Durant maybe? Ofc I never seen a team deliberately sabotage their best player either to focus on other players bc they just “know” that Wemby doesn’t need to be the focus long term. That he’ll be just fine.

Historically this season is a major red flag. Because I still don’t think the Spurs are using Victor correctly. I guess if we are using the Durant comparison all the way with Victor, they had to fire their coach and get a new one in order for him to succeed. Durant correctly left too. We have about 3 more seasons of cheap Victor. We need to make these count. Rookie max Victor is going to eat quite a bit of cap space. And supermax Victor will be much harder to build around financially. Spurs better quit this slow shit when it comes to this. We cannot tank the whole damn time he is on his rookie deal. And tbh if we keep this same exact team next year plus 2 draft picks, we are tanking again next year too

How should they use Victor?

[offset formation]

Record isn't everything. This year's Spurs team is better than last year's in terms of net scoring margin, -8.7 this year and -10.0 last year. Both numbers are putrid but +1.3 is a not insignificant difference.

In addition, the Spurs were at -11.9 before Tre Jones entered the starting lineup (after game 33), meaning they are around -3.1 since then (19 games) if I am doing the math right.

The Sochan at PG experiment was a disaster. With Tre starting at PG, and admittedly an easier schedule, the team is looking at least semi competent.

I'm not as upset at Sochans time spent playing PG because I think it's undeniable it greatly sped up his development. His smooth handles in traffic and in the paint when he's trying to finess a better shot came directly from that extra time spent running the offense. Niw he's not a long term solution at PG but it helped his game. And let's be clear, Tre running point isn't our long term solution either.

This is one case where I don't contest Pop's moves

[RC_Drunkford]

for all the pounding the rock talk, he hasnt shown that he can actually build a team, gradually, from scratch. as GM, he took over for a team with a megastar in david robinson that was already a perennial playoff team. as a coach, he took over a team midseason during a tank year, and rookie tim duncan was already freakin all-nba first team, and they won a chip year 2.

im not saying pops not a great coach. you cant deny the spurs transformations through the years, incorporating the big 3, transitioning to the beautiful game, developing kawhi, etc etc.

but for all the talk about not skipping steps the guy walked into situations both as a GM and coach with a lot of skipped steps

Yeah, I'm not shitting on the Pop of old. I just got a lot of criticism for Pop after the 2014 chip. I think that one really fed his ego, although it really was the best coaching job I've ever seen. I think that's where the whole "bigger than basketball" thing began. Where Pop thought he can just do team dinners and show videos of penguins and even a team of scrubs would be successful when they like each other off the court. That's also when RC Buford started to cry in every interview how they are turning these rookies into real men and caring more about that than actual basketball skills. When we handed out multi-year contracts for charity cases, etc. A lot of stuff went left since then.

[deanoden]

There’s all this talk about trusting the process. It’s not like there is a set process that if we just follow it will lead to success. Has anybody even seen the “process” defined anywhere ?

[Tyronn Lue]

How should they use Victor?
I'd rather see them just go to Victor on every play to see what he does. Do that for about 10 straight games. What's the worst that could happen? There's no reason to "develop" scrubs, the league has no shortage of them.

[Tyronn Lue]

I'm not as upset at Sochans time spent playing PG because I think it's undeniable it greatly sped up his development. His smooth handles in traffic and in the paint when he's trying to finess a better shot came directly from that extra time spent running the offense. Niw he's not a long term solution at PG but it helped his game. And let's be clear, Tre running point isn't our long term solution either.

This is one case where I don't contest Pop's moves
Fuck the Sochan experiment. Where's the Victor experiment, where Victor gets the ball?

[Dejounte]

I'd rather see them just go to Victor on every play to see what he does. Do that for about 10 straight games. What's the worst that could happen? There's no reason to "develop" scrubs, the league has no shortage of them.

This isn’t how real life works. Absolutely no NBA team will do this. Do you want to go back to playing NBA 2k and let the adults talk about things that actually have a chance to happen?

[offset formation]

Fuck the Sochan experiment. Where's the Victor experiment, where Victor gets the ball?

It's a long term positive for Jeremy's development WITH Wemby. They play MUCH better with one another already this year.

[hater]

"the core" :lmao

This team is shit there's no possibility of a core :lol

[Tyronn Lue]

It's a long term positive for Jeremy's development WITH Wemby. They play MUCH better with one another already this year.
The Spurs are a retard. The experiment make them a retard that can button his shirt. Totally worth it.

[Tyronn Lue]

This isn’t how real life works. Absolutely no NBA team will do this. Do you want to go back to playing NBA 2k and let the adults talk about things that actually have a chance to happen?
It was asked. I know they won't do it. No other NBA team would draft Victor and have Sochan running the point. What, is Brian Wright going to consult with you?