Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[rankingtear]

It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

Cap is at $141M the next season.
Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
18M left for Grayson Allen.

If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.

Sounds like you just built a team for Trae Young not Wemby.

[LeBowen]

Sounds like you just built a team for Trae Young not Wemby.

Please do enligthen me, what are player archetypes that would fit Wemby better.
I'm sick of you people who just shit on ideas and never provide context.

What we're seeing this season is obvious. Wemby is already getting swarmed whenever he's near the paint and we have no spacing to punish it.
We also have zero good enough playmakers on the team. Including Tre. That's why most our possessions are labored and look straight out of 1975.

I'd also like to pair Wemby alongside next all-time great point forward, but unfortuantely none of those that fit the timeline seem to be available.
Same goes for point guards, we went over it a dozen times.

The only good all-star point guards that could be available this summer are Trae or Garland.
If we're talking team-oriented point guards, it's just Tyus Jones who'd be a stop gap.
Or Derrick/Jrue if Celtics fail again because they can't extend both and they won't let them walk for free.

I'd want Trae only if he fully accepts that he's there for Wemby, not the other way around. And if he also accepts that he'll never get an extension for more than 45ish per year.
He can forget the supermax. 40 a year is enough of a bag. If just wants the money and treadmill for the rest of his career, then he can stay in Atlanta.

I'd also have nothing against giving Celtics their pick back for Derrick.
I just don't want Tre or a rookie starting the next season because it would be a disaster. If we draft a point guard, then get a good veteran who's an actual NBA starter and trade Tre.
Rookie can start off the bench.
There are no point guards in this draft that will be anywhere close to ready to start the next season. Or the season after.

But regardless of how point guards situation develops, 3-D perimeter players are a must because we're tragic in both those departments.
Naz Reid and Herb would be perfect fits. Same goes for Allen as a free agent, best one we can get on the market. I don't want Tobias Harris, he's just such a flaccid player.

[Frenchfred]

It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

Cap is at $141M the next season.
Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
18M left for Grayson Allen.

If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.

I like your proposal for the starting five, the bench would be really weak but we have to start somewhere.

[LeBowen]

I like your proposal for the starting five, the bench would be really weak but we have to start somewhere.

We'd still have all our picks, except maybe one and it's not like we can go from worst team in the conference to top contender in one summer.
We'd need Cissoko or rookie forward to develop into a rotation player.

Stagger minutes and don't play the bench together as a unit.

[Duncan2177]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytv9Y21fvfg

[Tyronn Lue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytv9Y21fvfg
Decent video, longer than it needs to be for fluff's sake, but if you could go back to Anthony Davis' rookie season I'd think the Pelicans fans would have a similar hope and that never really panned out. Davis is no Wembanyama, but he was the best prospect in a while. You look at what the Pelicans have now and they are actually a better team, only still not a legit title contender. Head East on I-10 for a couple hundred miles and you'll find Ime's team that's out performing expectations even without Sengun. A lot of these results are based on game planning, match ups and internal expectations. Ime is the Spurs team after losing in the Finals in 2013, pissed off with something to prove. Pop is the Spurs team after a championship season, not as hungry as before and losing in the 1st round but giving "effort". Pop is full of platitudes for bad players and rests on his laurels so much that a path forward isn't even slightly apparent. How much of that is corporate line toeing vs being genuine, I have no idea. Either way, the Spurs will not be competing for a championship next season.

[rankingtear]

Please do enligthen me, what are player archetypes that would fit Wemby better.
I'm sick of you people who just shit on ideas and never provide context.

What we're seeing this season is obvious. Wemby is already getting swarmed whenever he's near the paint and we have no spacing to punish it.
We also have zero good enough playmakers on the team. Including Tre. That's why most our possessions are labored and look straight out of 1975.

I'd also like to pair Wemby alongside next all-time great point forward, but unfortuantely none of those that fit the timeline seem to be available.
Same goes for point guards, we went over it a dozen times.

The only good all-star point guards that could be available this summer are Trae or Garland.
If we're talking team-oriented point guards, it's just Tyus Jones who'd be a stop gap.
Or Derrick/Jrue if Celtics fail again because they can't extend both and they won't let them walk for free.

I'd want Trae only if he fully accepts that he's there for Wemby, not the other way around. And if he also accepts that he'll never get an extension for more than 45ish per year.
He can forget the supermax. 40 a year is enough of a bag. If just wants the money and treadmill for the rest of his career, then he can stay in Atlanta.

I'd also have nothing against giving Celtics their pick back for Derrick.
I just don't want Tre or a rookie starting the next season because it would be a disaster. If we draft a point guard, then get a good veteran who's an actual NBA starter and trade Tre.
Rookie can start off the bench.
There are no point guards in this draft that will be anywhere close to ready to start the next season. Or the season after.

But regardless of how point guards situation develops, 3-D perimeter players are a must because we're tragic in both those departments.
Naz Reid and Herb would be perfect fits. Same goes for Allen as a free agent, best one we can get on the market. I don't want Tobias Harris, he's just such a flaccid player.

It is really geared toward Trae. 2 bigs lineup with spot up shooters. The main thing is a defender like Trae, reduces Wemby best value right now, which is as a rim protector. It puts him out of position most of the time, cause you can't switch anything involving him and some teams can attack you in every angle, which is the main downfall of the UTA Gobert team in the playoffs. You are also completely changing your offense to run a PNR heavy scheme, cause that is what Trae does, it completely negates Wemby's primary strength which is his offensive versatility. As I said, your not actually building a team around Wemby, your just building around his lob catching. If there is no player in free agency or draft, then try again next year, we have a long runway. Guys like Topic and Tyus are true unselfish guys at the 1, they maybe defensive liabilities but they don't dictate your playstyle and they still guard some POA. Fat Batum at the 4 or just wait for Sochan to shoot, Rui or Pat Williams can maybe both defend in space and guard 5 that takes Wemby out of the paint. MPJ, Murphy, Cam Johnson, Zacchh at the 3 just snipers who can also slide their feet. Devin at the 2 or any secondary playmaker who can slide their feet. Any archetype that takes him out of the paint on defense is a bad archetype.

[LeBowen]

2 bigs lineup

Tell me you haven't seen Naz Reid play without telling me you haven't seen Naz Reid play.
You know that he's got wing handles and isn't a true big? Something along the lines of Gordon without outwordly vertical, but with elite shooting.
Please go watch some videos of his and then check the advanced stats, then come back and tell me why would he be anything short of a perfect fit with Wemby.


with spot up shooters.

Grayson Allen is the only one out of all those targets who's a true spot up shooter.
And we really need one of those because none of our current players is an actual off-ball threat.
Every legit team has 3-D players that don't really need the ball and play their best basketball by picking their spots.
We also need a point of attack defender.


The main thing is a defender like Trae, reduces Wemby best value right now, which is as a rim protector. It puts him out of position most of the time, cause you can't switch anything involving him and some teams can attack you in every angle, which is the main downfall of the UTA Gobert team in the playoffs.

The downfall of UTA teams in the playoffs was that their entire team was trash defensively and Gobert played 1v5 defense at times. O'Neale and Ingles were the only good defenders.
All the talk about Trae being a bad defender, which he is, would be valid if we had better defenders. But we don't. He's not any worse than Tre.
And we're dying for someone who can make us look like an actual basketball team instead a bunch of randoms that gathered at your local gym for the first time.


You are also completely changing your offense to run a PNR heavy scheme, cause that is what Trae does, it completely negates Wemby's primary strength which is his offensive versatility.

Because Wemby is getting a lot of varied looks right now? The only points he doesn't creat for himself are the easiest passes you or I could make. And even those aren't made a lot of the time.
Who says Trae can't play off the ball?


As I said, your not actually building a team around Wemby, your just building around his lob catching.

It's not about fucking lob catching, ffs. Why do you people have such a simplistic view on basketball?
It's about noone on the team having any gravity that would help Wemby.
Whether it be playmaking gravity and ability to collapse defenses or shooting gravity that would make opponents reluctant to help off those players.


If there is no player in free agency or draft, then try again next year, we have a long runway. Guys like Topic and Tyus are true unselfish guys at the 1, they maybe defensive liabilities but they don't dictate your playstyle and they still guard some POA.

Ok, I don't want to insult you, but who the am I talking with here?
Did you just write that Topic can guard some POA? Are you serious? Have you ever seen the kid play?
I guarantee you that 95% of posters in here would straight up refuse to draft topic if he was a domestic prospect and not almost a countrymen of Doncic.

You don't want Trae because he's a bad defender, but you'd take fucking Topic? Are you people just trolling in here?


Fat Batum at the 4 or just wait for Sochan to shoot, Rui or Pat Williams can maybe both defend in space and guard 5 that takes Wemby out of the paint.

Batum is washed and retiring after this season. I guess maybe playing one more year with Wemby could persuade him.
Hachimura is a worse player than any of the wings I suggested, but he plays for the Lakers, so I guess you bought into their propaganda.
Pat Williams just had a foot surgery and is up for an extension.

You're legit naming players that are a couple of tiers below Naz Reid on both ends of the floor.


MPJ, Murphy, Cam Johnson, Zacchh at the 3 just snipers who can also slide their feet. Devin at the 2 or any secondary playmaker who can slide their feet. Any archetype that takes him out of the paint on defense is a bad archetype.

You want MPJ?
If you don't believe me, ask Nuggets fans and everyone will tell you that MPJ is one of the dumbest players in the league. Negative IQ.
But he's got size and shooting stroke, so they tolerate him.
He should be giving two thirds of his paycheck to Jokic.
And he's not a good team defender, awful IQ and instincts.
He's also making 35 to 40M a year until 2027.
You don't want Trae for that salary, but you want MPJ? Do you fucking people even watch any actual NBA games or just play fantasy and 2K?

I see that you're also already projecting Risacher (if that's Zachhh, because I hope it's not Lavine) as an elite shooter.
Again, much like Topic, you have absolutely no clue about the player you're talking about.


I'm not going to pretend that I'm some all-knowing expert, but some of you people are so lost, holy fucking shit.
You spewed so much nonsense and contradiction in one post I legitimately got upset.

[spurraider21]

The spurs have never shown the appetite to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade

[JeffDuncan]

…
I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.


Devin Vassell’s game is limited in a couple of ways. He lacks a quick first step, to gain separation from a defender, and he isn’t fast in general, by NBA standards. This is why he so often ends up taking difficult shots. He has trouble getting space. Also, he’s a bonehead. Now, I do not know the gentleman personally, but I mean, in basketball terms he’s dense, a low BBIQ. I can be specific on that point if anybody cares. It would take a while to describe.

Grayson Allen - UFA this summer, as you mention. Base salary under his current contract, $8.5 M. Age 28, and this is his 6th season. He’s represented by CAA if that matters.

Grayson has consistently shot 40% on 3ptrs since his rookie season, with three different teams. Even better this year, as you mention. League leader at this time. His percentage has undoubtedly been helped by the gravity of KD and Booker. He’s getting open looks as their outlet, when defenses collapse on them, and he’s doing an excellent job in the outlet role.

Grayson’s assist numbers aren’t much, but that goes with his role. He isn’t first option. The Suns will try KD or Booker first, so Grayson won’t get the pass until later in the shot clock, when he’ll need to shoot. You wouldn’t expect much for assists in that role.

It isn’t trivial to observe that Grayson has performed well on teams with superstars. First Giannis, now KD, and Booker. By his history, he knows how to fit in, as a secondary piece, and do a good job.

I’d be fine with Grayson Allen replacing Vassell. Not that the Spurs would be inclined to do that, or would be able to. I have yet to see any evidence that the Spurs front office is competent at team building. The Spurs are currently stuck using the main roster for what is essentially G-league development, which is pathetic.

Others you mention…

Naz Reid, I would absolutely not give a first round pick for him. His rebounding and block numbers aren’t good enough. A big who’s worth a 1st round pick needs to be better near the basket. For salary plus 2nd round picks, ok.

Buying the Brooklyn Bridges, well, if the price is right, despite how that looks.

Things to talk about, anyway.

[LeBowen]

Naz Reid, I would absolutely not give a first round pick for him. His rebounding and block numbers aren’t good enough. A big who’s worth a 1st round pick needs to be better near the basket. For salary plus 2nd round picks, ok.

Well, if he was elite at rebounding and rim protection, he would be worth way more and out of reach.
He's a great perimeter defender for his size, solid on switches for his size against both guards and actual bigs.

His rebounding numbers are similar to Gordon's and he's a better shot blocker.
Noone thinks that Gordon should be a better rebounder.
And don't forget that he's been playing mot of his minutes with Gobert who's arguably the best rebounder in the league.

The entire point of finding a partner for Wemby is finding someone who will give him space in the paint.
And his finishing around the rim is decent. He's got some solid moves, reminds me of Siakam with his spins.

I'd rather have him than Markkanen if we take the asking price and contract demands into account.
I just don't see a better partner for Wemby right now if we talk role players and not actual stars.

I agree with everything else.

[Pauleta14]

It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

Cap is at $141M the next season.
Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
18M left for Grayson Allen.

If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.

I like it a lot.

Especially the part where we sell Vassell high before the rest of the league realises.

[CorrectCrusader]

Something to note for team building. We NEED shooting in our starters. Look at OKC, Josh Giddey being unable to shoot makes him basically impossible to play in key moments and will likely play like 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.
I would keep Devin because he can shoot, but unless you're taking Reed Shepphard in the draft, Trae is an excellent solution. Let's not pretend that he'll play the same offense that he does in atlanta here, I hate pop but it's very obvious statistically that the spurs play with a share the ball style of offense.
Also I'd like to add for like the 20th time. There at times where Wemby gets literally quintuple teamed on offense. Trae would KILL for another player that gets that level of attention, nobody is scared of Dejounte shooting threes.
LeBowen I really liked your breakdown but I don't see us getting Naz Reid esp since he's a huge part of a top seed in the west this year and the Timberpups are gonna be looking to continue to contend as Ant develops.
BRING TRAE HOME!

[rankingtear]

Something to note for team building. We NEED shooting in our starters. Look at OKC, Josh Giddey being unable to shoot makes him basically impossible to play in key moments and will likely play like 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.
I would keep Devin because he can shoot, but unless you're taking Reed Shepphard in the draft, Trae is an excellent solution. Let's not pretend that he'll play the same offense that he does in atlanta here, I hate pop but it's very obvious statistically that the spurs play with a share the ball style of offense.
Also I'd like to add for like the 20th time. There at times where Wemby gets literally quintuple teamed on offense. Trae would KILL for another player that gets that level of attention, nobody is scared of Dejounte shooting threes.
LeBowen I really liked your breakdown but I don't see us getting Naz Reid esp since he's a huge part of a top seed in the west this year and the Timberpups are gonna be looking to continue to contend as Ant develops.
BRING TRAE HOME!

Quinn was actually brought in to run his motion offense. DJ to take the ball out of his hands. Trae just never bought in. Would it be different here? That is the 60 million question.

[tbdog]

^ Too many moving parts. Getting rid of youth with small contacts and plenty picks is a sure way to blow your load way too early.

[rankingtear]

Tell me you haven't seen Naz Reid play without telling me you haven't seen Naz Reid play.
You know that he's got wing handles and isn't a true big? Something along the lines of Gordon without outwordly vertical, but with elite shooting.
Please go watch some videos of his and then check the advanced stats, then come back and tell me why would he be anything short of a perfect fit with Wemby.



Grayson Allen is the only one out of all those targets who's a true spot up shooter.
And we really need one of those because none of our current players is an actual off-ball threat.
Every legit team has 3-D players that don't really need the ball and play their best basketball by picking their spots.
We also need a point of attack defender.



The downfall of UTA teams in the playoffs was that their entire team was trash defensively and Gobert played 1v5 defense at times. O'Neale and Ingles were the only good defenders.
All the talk about Trae being a bad defender, which he is, would be valid if we had better defenders. But we don't. He's not any worse than Tre.
And we're dying for someone who can make us look like an actual basketball team instead a bunch of randoms that gathered at your local gym for the first time.



Because Wemby is getting a lot of varied looks right now? The only points he doesn't creat for himself are the easiest passes you or I could make. And even those aren't made a lot of the time.
Who says Trae can't play off the ball?



It's not about fucking lob catching, ffs. Why do you people have such a simplistic view on basketball?
It's about noone on the team having any gravity that would help Wemby.
Whether it be playmaking gravity and ability to collapse defenses or shooting gravity that would make opponents reluctant to help off those players.



Ok, I don't want to insult you, but who the am I talking with here?
Did you just write that Topic can guard some POA? Are you serious? Have you ever seen the kid play?
I guarantee you that 95% of posters in here would straight up refuse to draft topic if he was a domestic prospect and not almost a countrymen of Doncic.

You don't want Trae because he's a bad defender, but you'd take fucking Topic? Are you people just trolling in here?



Batum is washed and retiring after this season. I guess maybe playing one more year with Wemby could persuade him.
Hachimura is a worse player than any of the wings I suggested, but he plays for the Lakers, so I guess you bought into their propaganda.
Pat Williams just had a foot surgery and is up for an extension.

You're legit naming players that are a couple of tiers below Naz Reid on both ends of the floor.



You want MPJ?
If you don't believe me, ask Nuggets fans and everyone will tell you that MPJ is one of the dumbest players in the league. Negative IQ.
But he's got size and shooting stroke, so they tolerate him.
He should be giving two thirds of his paycheck to Jokic.
And he's not a good team defender, awful IQ and instincts.
He's also making 35 to 40M a year until 2027.
You don't want Trae for that salary, but you want MPJ? Do you fucking people even watch any actual NBA games or just play fantasy and 2K?

I see that you're also already projecting Risacher (if that's Zachhh, because I hope it's not Lavine) as an elite shooter.
Again, much like Topic, you have absolutely no clue about the player you're talking about.


I'm not going to pretend that I'm some all-knowing expert, but some of you people are so lost, holy fucking shit.
You spewed so much nonsense and contradiction in one post I legitimately got upset.

I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.

[Knoxxx]

We get it, Young is a polarizing player, a chucker, too small, defensive liability, possible locker room cancer. I’d not be interested at all, except that we are desperate for ANY legit NBA players at this stage, especially at PG. Though our own Tre is developing into a might fine backup level NBA PG, IMO.

[TD 21]

I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.

His defense would definitely be a bigger issue than the sieves here simply due to role. Where they'd at best be spot minute players on a playoff team, he'd be the second best player.

Of course you could still run some motion, but "system" offense is what's resorted to in order to make up for lack of elite individual talent. The latter is almost always what wins in this league though. It's what won 4 of the 5 Spurs championships.

[Tyronn Lue]

The spurs have never shown the appetite to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade
This is where Pop is inexperienced. I have to wonder if Pop is willing to admit this roster needs to be greatly altered, as it might indicate he cannot get blood from a turnip, which I am not sure he believes.

[objective]

Whole I'm pro Trae, I do wonder how his game will or would be affected by the current NBA officiating edicts which have reduced foul calls. Trae has basically missed most of that with injury, and of course things can always revert back.

But free throws and free throw scamming has been a large part of his game.

I still would like to see him traded for.

[rankingtear]

His defense would definitely be a bigger issue than the sieves here simply due to role. Where they'd at best be spot minute players on a playoff team, he'd be the second best player.

Of course you could still run some motion, but "system" offense is what's resorted to in order to make up for lack of elite individual talent. The latter is almost always what wins in this league though. It's what won 4 of the 5 Spurs championships.

You can't run motion with only 1 good decision maker, that was the lineup he built that we are discussing. Not only that but the only decision maker is a selfish one.

[JPB]

The spurs have never shown the appetite to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade

Their draft record these last 5 years should also invite them to reconsider the idea of building a contender only or mainly that way. They've been pretty bad at picking overall, whether it's in the loterry or not, with no real, future star or even elite role player(s) to show up for it. If not for lucking into Wemby last year, the situation would be alarming. There might not be one guy they picked these last few years that could start in a Wemby lead, contending team (besides Devin maybe but there were better picks than him too that year) or that would even deserve a roster spot.
Many of those picks have/will end up as 3rd stringers to borderline NBA players, with Sochan and Keldon as the only real other rotation guys

They'be better off using those picks to bring some proven talent, specially after precisely getting Wemby.

[LeBowen]

I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.

There is contradiction because you don't want Trae, but then you suggest MPJ and his disgusting contract.
Having a bad defender at SF/PF is worse than having a bad defender at PG.

Secondary ball handler? If there was one, you'd say Wemby would never see the ball.
I think Wemby can and will tighten up his handles and we don't really need a secondary ball handler.
All those guys I mentioned as trade targets are decent with the ball and can easily score in a mismatch.

And we can't go from 0 to 100 in one summer. That secondary playmaker and one or two more pieces would have to wait.

If you don't think Grayson/Bridges/Reid wouldn't be able to run motion offense, DHOs or switch 2 through 5 I suggest you watch some actual NBA games and stop spewing nonsense.
I'm trying really hard to be nice on this forum, but I'm just baffled at how some people like yourself have so much confidence in their takes when it's blatantly obvious you barely watch any games around the league.

Reid is a 6'9 forward who can spend some minutes on the floor together with both KAT and Gobert. He can also play the backup 5 against teams with no actual big on the bench.
Bridges isn't good enough to be the first option, but he's a better iso scorer than Devin. And he's got that freak wingspan, can easily play PF.
Grayson is spending a lot of minutes at SF and can easily guard 1-3.
Herb Jones is 6'8 and is forched to defend SG a lot because Pelicans have Ingram and Trey Murphy, with Zion being the PF.

But then you come in here and talk about not being able to switch because you're completely clueless.
And it's not even about Trae as I already said, but about you dismissing forwards that would be perfect for Wemby in every sense.

All the talk about motion offense. As if Danny or young nephew had any handles or playmaking ability.
They learned the system and knew their A/B/C options in any given situations.
After that, we had LMA as the second option behind nephew. Took over as first option after 2017 fiasco.
LMA's passing and playmaking vision was the worst I've ever seen out of any all-star big that could shoot.
He was so horrible at it.
And yet we had two seasons of 60+ wins with him as the second option and he did a great job carrying for two more years after nephew left.
We brought in Demar, a player everyone saw as a Kobe wannabe with major tunnel vision issues.

He was 29 when he joined and his career assists average was 3.
His average from the season he joined us to right now is 5.6.
If Demar Derozan, one of the worst cases of tunnel vision you'll ever see, could learn how to spread the ball around and even run the offense at times, then anyone can improve.
But I don't know if Pop is that guy anymore.

Trae Young has all the necessary skills to play in any and every type of offense, it's just down to his willigness to do so. And coaching.
He's not Russ who never had any bball IQ or shooting range.

You have to accept that it's going to be extremely hard to find an elite playmaker who's also a good defender.
I'd rather have the next Jason Kidd or Gary Payton instead of Trae, but it's not going to happen.
If we could let's say get Derrick back, would you complain about Derrick/Grayson/Herb/Reid/Wemby lineup?
Or even Derrick/Devin/Herb/Reid/Wemby since you don't seem to like Grayson?



^ Too many moving parts. Getting rid of youth with small contacts and plenty picks is a sure way to blow your load way too early.

Which youth with small contracts am I suggesting to get rid of?
Keldon is in his fifth year and has made no improvements whatsoever over the past few years.
He's a disgustingly bad defender despite his phyiscal talents, he's got major tunnel vision issues and he's a streaky shooter that struggles more often than not.
Idk what do you think he can become, but I personally think he's reached his ceiling.
His contract isn't that big, but it's not small, either. Definitely not worth the money.

As I said multiple times, I wouldn't get rid of Devin just for the sake of it, but I'm open to including him into a trade for better players.
While he's obviously better than Keldon, his extension is big and he's nowhere close being worth that money right now.
He's a scorer that doesn't offer much else, but somehow he keeps deferring to worse players (read: Keldon and Jeremy) when Wemby struggles and often goes missing in the most important stretches of games, even when he's scoring well.
People like comparing him to Middleton, but as someone said, he's got no clutch highlights and that's a recurring theme.

Except for Trae, none of those guys I mentioned are expensive.
Spurs have 9 FRPs and countless seconds in the next 4 years.
If we're not trading any of our players and keeping all the picks, how are we going to fit all that in the roster?

To make some comparisons, Denver traded away Gary Harris, Will Barton and Jerami Grant. Three of their key rotation players in bubble WCF run.
They were good, but not good enough.
While we're obviously nowhere near WCF, it's pretty clear that Keldon can't be a part of a winning roster. And it looks increasingly likely that Devin won't be worth 30 million a year.

Bucks traded away Bledsoe and Brogdon to get Jrue.

Obviously we don't have to get an entire new roster for Wemby right away, but I want at least two proven starters that would be immediate upgrades for the next season.
They don't have to be all-stars, but we need something.
Right now Hornets are the only team with longer lottery streak than us. It's just embarrassing.

We more or less wasted 4 straight FRPs in two drafts before Wemby. And now we're in a draft that has zero guarantees.
What makes you so optimistic that Brian will be Wright, and not Wrong, this time?

[exstatic]

We get it, Young is a polarizing player, a chucker, too small, defensive liability, possible locker room cancer. I’d not be interested at all, except that we are desperate for ANY legit NBA players at this stage, especially at PG. Though our own Tre is developing into a might fine backup level NBA PG, IMO.

If it goes south with Trae, you waste Wemby’s entire 20s decade. There’s no recovering from that, and no chance to ever get picks like those again.

[LeBowen]

If it goes south with Trae, you waste Wemby’s entire 20s decade. There’s no recovering from that, and no chance to ever get picks like those again.

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

[JeffDuncan]

… There at times where Wemby gets literally quintuple teamed on offense. Trae would KILL for another player that gets that level of attention, nobody is scared of Dejounte shooting threes.
…


They should be, scared of DJM shooting 3s that is. He’s at .368 for the year, on 6.8 attempts per game, and he just went 7 for 9 in a win over Charlotte. Compare to Vassell’s .375 on 6.4 attempts. Not that Vassell is really very scary. But that’s incidental to this discussion.



LeBowen I really liked your breakdown but I don't see us getting Naz Reid esp since he's a huge part of a top seed in the west this year and the Timberpups are gonna be looking to continue to contend as Ant develops.
BRING TRAE HOME!


The T-Wolves might like to keep their team together, but they have a salary problem under the CBA. They’re on course to have the highest salary in the league - even higher than the Warriors or Clippers - and go heavily into the luxury tax. The T-Wolves don’t have the revenue generating power of the Warriors, following the Warriors’ dominance with Curry & company. Nor do they have a moneybags owner like the Clippers have in Ballmer.

Then, altho the T-Wolves have an excellent team, they are not the favorites, and the competition at the top looks strong. So the question becomes, are the T-Wolves okay with going heavily into the luxury tax for a dark horse team? They’re the only ones who can answer that question for sure, but it’s something an outsider can wonder about.

This is why people are thinking they might trade Reid, and why there’s occasional speculation about them trading KAT. Money. The luxury tax.

[exstatic]

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

That’s where they are now, and where they were when he went under the knife. He has two years left before his opt out, which he will use. If he walks,they get nothing for him. If he demands a trade next (2025) summer, they get very little. Both of those benefit the Spurs, as they will obviously suck and be worse than a 9-10 team without him, making at least the 2027 pick solid gold, and the 2026 swap the same if he forces his way out.

[LeBowen]

That’s where they are now, and where they were when he went under the knife. He has two years left before his opt out, which he will use. If he walks,they get nothing for him. If he demands a trade next (2025) summer, they get very little. Both of those benefit the Spurs, as they will obviously suck and be worse than a 9-10 team without him, making at least the 2027 pick solid gold, and the 2026 swap the same if he forces his way out.

Fair point, but they're in the East and with no incentive to tank, those picks won't ever be in top5.
Brooklyn being the best example. Rockets own their picks and therefore they won't ever tank.

[Spurs Homer]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

Vassell should be included in any deal- he is not worth keeping

and his knee will implode any day now if you watch the games you will see him land awkwardly and limp back to the other side of the court

after a few minutes he appears ok - but the next awkward landing - the same thing happens

plus he never learned how to make a simple pass - much less an accurate lob

[CGD]

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

The best case scenario is they trade Trae to another team that is NOT the Spurs for picks. For example, to Houston for all the Brooklyn picks.

[z0sa]

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

I'm not sure about the BWright stuff. I think this off-season is where he will be truly put to the fire and it's sink or swim time.

That said, agree with the rest of your post. People don't want two max players for ... "reasons." Like Wemby won't be 23 should he decide to leave, but with all of the acumen playing with a great passer and scorer will bring. We'll at least have a baseline for us to ground our expectations, including with Wemby and how he gets along with someone who's an All-star. And it is possible Trae Young takes less than the max. Nothing is done until it's done. I say gamble because it's clear we need an infusion of "NOW" talent on this roster. Give these guys like Sochan a real chance to develop instead of forcing them into positions where they can only be reasonably expected to fail.

[Seventyniner]

I hadn't really looked at Tre Jones's splits as a starter and bench player, but they are much starker than I had thought.

Tre is shooting 41.3% on 2.5 3PA per game as a starter. His 3 point rate is only 31.6% so he's still a somewhat low volume 3 point shooter, but that kind of accuracy is more than adequate.

He also has a TS% of 65.7 which is sterling for a PG. Again this is tempered by his low usage rate, it's not like he really has a path to being a high usage efficient star, but as a 4th or 5th option that's exactly what you want.

I have been on the trade for Trae train (try saying that three times fast) for a while, but if Jones keeps improving he will be too good to just play 16 MPG off the bench behind Young and they really can't share the floor together. I'm now thinking that the forward positions are a better use of the Spurs' draft capital in order to improve the starting lineup, of course depending on availability and price. Bridges or Markkanen would be ideal but each would likely cost an arm and both legs.

[Atl Spur]

If it goes south with Trae, you waste Wemby’s entire 20s decade. There’s no recovering from that, and no chance to ever get picks like those again.

If nothing else, young will put up stats with Wemby right? If it doesn’t work out some team will still trade for him in two to three years I would assume…the haul may be pretty decent being Trae would still be in his prime! Draft and start grooming your future pg guard behind him now ( topic, dilly, whomever ); it gives you a chance to win now and into the future as well as energize the fanbase! Attendance would go up exponentially.

[LeBowen]

Tre is shooting 41.3% on 2.5 3PA per game as a starter. His 3 point rate is only 31.6% so he's still a somewhat low volume 3 point shooter, but that kind of accuracy is more than adequate.

He also has a TS% of 65.7 which is sterling for a PG. Again this is tempered by his low usage rate, it's not like he really has a path to being a high usage efficient star, but as a 4th or 5th option that's exactly what you want.

I have been on the trade for Trae train (try saying that three times fast) for a while, but if Jones keeps improving he will be too good to just play 16 MPG off the bench behind Young and they really can't share the floor together.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/tre-jones-shot-chart

While those numbers look great, most of his makes, especially recently are corner 3s.
Better than nothing, but if we had a legit triple threat who could pull up from the top of the key, Wemby would become unguardable.
Tre is more or less always dared to shoot and he's in low 30s. Unacceptable for a starter.

While I'm probably the biggest Lebron hater in here, his 2 points aren't 2 points is one of the best things an NBA player has ever said.
Teams are happy to give up open shots to poor shooters.
For example, credit where it's due because DJ really improved his range, but even though his percentages are close to Trae's, you look at the shots they take and it's obvious who's leagues above as a shooter.
If an elite shooter had the shots DJ takes, they'd easily be at 45%+ from deep.

Regardless of Trae situation, Tre isn't good enough to start on a serious team. He's smart, but his skillset is is just lacking.


I'm now thinking that the forward positions are a better use of the Spurs' draft capital in order to improve the starting lineup, of course depending on availability and price. Bridges or Markkanen would be ideal but each would likely cost an arm and both legs.

That's why I keep suggesting players who won't cost an arm and a leg and why I never mentioned Markkanen.
Timberwolves are completely fucked and over the cap even if they get rid of KAT's massive contract, hence my Naz Reid suggestion.

Pelicans are also in a need of retooling with their unbalanced roster and having Ingram/Herb/Murphy for one position is a crowd.
If either Herb or Murphy become available, Spurs should prioritize it.

None of them would cost an arm and a leg and all are on team friendly deals. I don't want anyone making close to 30M.

[spurraider21]

I hadn't really looked at Tre Jones's splits as a starter and bench player, but they are much starker than I had thought.

Tre is shooting 41.3% on 2.5 3PA per game as a starter. His 3 point rate is only 31.6% so he's still a somewhat low volume 3 point shooter, but that kind of accuracy is more than adequate.

He also has a TS% of 65.7 which is sterling for a PG. Again this is tempered by his low usage rate, it's not like he really has a path to being a high usage efficient star, but as a 4th or 5th option that's exactly what you want.

I have been on the trade for Trae train (try saying that three times fast) for a while, but if Jones keeps improving he will be too good to just play 16 MPG off the bench behind Young and they really can't share the floor together. I'm now thinking that the forward positions are a better use of the Spurs' draft capital in order to improve the starting lineup, of course depending on availability and price. Bridges or Markkanen would be ideal but each would likely cost an arm and both legs.
there's also a difference between being able to hit an open 3 when the D collapses and the ball gets kicked out to you, vs the persistent threat of taking and making pull-up 3's that bend the defense toward you

the former is kind of a bare minimum that you want. the latter is what stresses the defense to a breaking point with wemby rolling to the rim

[SOMA Spur]

Man, I second this big time. I feel like Devin is fool’s gold. He flashes good stuff consistently enough to think he could be it… but it’s all just fools gold. I’d rather someone else take the bait while we reap the rewards. Realizing that Devin has pretty much never made the big clutch play is what sealed it for me. We moved on from DJM because we didn’t feel like he was the star we needed, but he at least made some big time plays in the clutch from time to time. Hell, even Keldon has. I can’t think of a single time Devin has hit that game tying/winning shot or big defensive stop.

And if there are some examples… I’d love to be wrong. I don’t count throwing a few lobs to Wemby early in OT as “big time clutch plays”

Lately, per game, I'll see Devin throw a nice lob, or pull a flashy pass out of his ass and everyone is so god damn excited or impressed. Even Victor is wide eyed on occasion. But to me, I'm thinking why does this have to be so labored, why aren't we doing this like a dozen times per game? I like this Fools Gold comparison, and it sounds like many on this board are perfectly fine with another team taking the bait. I guess you can count me as one of them now.

[rankingtear]

If nothing else, young will put up stats with Wemby right? If it doesn’t work out some team will still trade for him in two to three years I would assume…the haul may be pretty decent being Trae would still be in his prime! Draft and start grooming your future pg guard behind him now ( topic, dilly, whomever ); it gives you a chance to win now and into the future as well as energize the fanbase! Attendance would go up exponentially.

He is making too much on that third deal which should start in 2 years. Look at the teams who traded hauls for a star that did not work out. HOU was sent to 4 year tank without control of their picks moving forward. BKN was sent to the stone age. DAL was set back 4 years and had to dig themself out with even more picks. Wemby is as good as gone if that happens, that is why every GM wants a long rebuild.

[Seventyniner]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/tre-jones-shot-chart

While those numbers look great, most of his makes, especially recently are corner 3s.
Better than nothing, but if we had a legit triple threat who could pull up from the top of the key, Wemby would become unguardable.
Tre is more or less always dared to shoot and he's in low 30s. Unacceptable for a starter.

While I'm probably the biggest Lebron hater in here, his 2 points aren't 2 points is one of the best things an NBA player has ever said.
Teams are happy to give up open shots to poor shooters.
For example, credit where it's due because DJ really improved his range, but even though his percentages are close to Trae's, you look at the shots they take and it's obvious who's leagues above as a shooter.
If an elite shooter had the shots DJ takes, they'd easily be at 45%+ from deep.

Regardless of Trae situation, Tre isn't good enough to start on a serious team. He's smart, but his skillset is is just lacking.



The low 30s is Jones's 3 point attempt rate. As a starter he's making 41.3% of his three point attempts.
In his last 37 games, i.e. since he entered the starting lineup, his 3 point attempts are more or less evenly distributed around the arc. 40 shots from the corners, 50 from elsewhere. I'm not sure why it adds up to 90 and not 92. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/tre-jones-shot-chart-last-37-games
I fully agree that Young would have way more gravity than Jones. Young is also a far better lob passer. In a vacuum I take Young over Jones 100 times out of 100, but if you factor in acquisition cost and salary I think going after a SF upgrade could easily yield more bang for the buck. Champagnie is a third string caliber player while Jones is a borderline starting quality player.
I don't think the Spurs will be a serious team while Jones is on his current contract. Just getting to the playoffs next year and maybe pushing for HCA in round 1 the following year is about as much as can be expected imo.



Timberwolves are completely fucked and over the cap even if they get rid of KAT's massive contract, hence my Naz Reid suggestion.

Pelicans are also in a need of retooling with their unbalanced roster and having Ingram/Herb/Murphy for one position is a crowd.
If either Herb or Murphy become available, Spurs should prioritize it.

None of them would cost an arm and a leg and all are on team friendly deals. I don't want anyone making close to 30M.

So you think the Spurs can get all 3 of Young, Reid, and Herb/Murphy? I would be all for that.

[exstatic]

He is making too much on that third deal which should start in 2 years. Look at the teams who traded hauls for a star that did not work out. HOU was sent to 4 year tank without control of their picks moving forward. BKN was sent to the stone age. DAL was set back 4 years and had to dig themself out with even more picks. Wemby is as good as gone if that happens, that is why every GM wants a long rebuild.

That is also why some here don’t want Trae. Other than Harden, nonoe of those players have the flags that Trae does, and those trades STILL didn’t work out. Durant is the second best player this millennium behind Bron, he’s with two other stars, and they’re a bottom half playoff team who could easily slip 1/2 game into the play in. You can’t just smash talent together and have it work every time, or even most times.

[LeBowen]

The low 30s is Jones's 3 point attempt rate. As a starter he's making 41.3% of his three point attempts.
In his last 37 games, i.e. since he entered the starting lineup, his 3 point attempts are more or less evenly distributed around the arc. 40 shots from the corners, 50 from elsewhere. I'm not sure why it adds up to 90 and not 92. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/tre-jones-shot-chart-last-37-games




While he's obviously working hard on his shot, it's too early to say if he's just on a hot shooting streak.
Almost 50% of his shots coming from corners increases his percentage. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the corners, I'm just saying that his 41% isn't even close to being actual 41%.
Almost all of his shots are uncontested. We need a point guard defenders will have to chase over screens, not someone they'll dare to shoot.
He's decent enough to stay for a couple more years, but I don't think he'll ever be good enough to start.


So you think the Spurs can get all 3 of Young, Reid, and Herb/Murphy? I would be all for that.

I explained it earlier.
We'll have ~24M in cap space after we don't guarantee Devonte's contract for the next season.
Keldon will make 19M, Collins 16.7M and Devin 29.3M. That's 65M for three of them.
89M in cap space if we get rid of all three. I personally think Keldon and Collins need to go no matter what.

I'm open to all possibilities when it comes to PG situation, but I think Spurs should be desperate to get two serious wings this season because our wing rotation is easily the worst in the league.
Naz as the first priority and then one of Herb/Murphy/Bridges/Cameron/Okoro in that order of priority. Grayson Allen as a free agency trade target if needed.

Devin would have to go if we get Trae, imo. Can stay if we decide for a more conservative PG solution, which will probably happen.
But we desperately need some wings.


He is making too much on that third deal which should start in 2 years. Look at the teams who traded hauls for a star that did not work out. HOU was sent to 4 year tank without control of their picks moving forward. BKN was sent to the stone age. DAL was set back 4 years and had to dig themself out with even more picks. Wemby is as good as gone if that happens, that is why every GM wants a long rebuild.

Difference being that those teams you mentioned blew their entire loads and were left with no assets.
If Spurs hypothetically give Hawks their picks back for Trae, we'd still have 6 FRPs in 4 years, including all of our own.

[exstatic]

While he's obviously working hard on his shot, it's too early to say if he's just on a hot shooting streak.
Almost 50% of his shots coming from corners increases his percentage. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the corners, I'm just saying that his 41% isn't even close to being actual 41%.
Almost all of his shots are uncontested. We need a point guard defenders will have to chase over screens, not someone they'll dare to shoot.
He's decent enough to stay for a couple more years, but I don't think he'll ever be good enough to start.



I explained it earlier.
We'll have ~24M in cap space after we don't guarantee Devonte's contract for the next season.
Keldon will make 19M, Collins 16.7M and Devin 29.3M. That's 65M for three of them.
89M in cap space if we get rid of all three. I personally think Keldon and Collins need to go no matter what.

I'm open to all possibilities when it comes to PG situation, but I think Spurs should be desperate to get two serious wings this season because our wing rotation is easily the worst in the league.
Naz as the first priority and then one of Herb/Murphy/Bridges/Cameron/Okoro in that order of priority. Grayson Allen as a free agency trade target if needed.

Devin would have to go if we get Trae, imo. Can stay if we decide for a more conservative PG solution, which will probably happen.
But we desperately need some wings.



Difference being that those teams you mentioned blew their entire loads and were left with no assets.
If Spurs hypothetically give Hawks their picks back for Trae, we'd still have 6 FRPs in 4 years, including all of our own.

Our own picks will be crap in like 2 years, and mid after this year.

[baseline bum]

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

Yeah I'll take Trae over three picks like Vassell + Primo + Sochan. Deal needs to get done. Though if the Hawks trade Trae elsewhere it would be a tank only benefiting the Spurs, which is why they won't do it.

[LeBowen]

Our own picks will be crap in like 2 years, and mid after this year.

And how many lottery picks do you need to make a decent team?
We have a GOAT-potential player in the making.
We have 9th, 11th and will add another top5 pick this year. Maybe even an extra top10 pick depending on how Raptors lottery goes.
Next year we'll most definitely add another late lottery pick with our own selection. Then we'll potentially have Hawks/Raptors/Chicago depending on how things develop this and the next year.

At some point it becomes irrelevant how many picks you have, it's about competence of the front office.
For like a decade we managed to keep contending and improving our roster with scraps in the draft and right now not even five lottery picks are enough?
How did PATFO go from being impeccable at drafting to not even five lottery picks being enough?
We're really close to flatlining as a franchise if we fail to be in the play-in running the next season. Losing takes toll on everyone.

[baseline bum]

Our own picks will be crap in like 2 years, and mid after this year.

What makes you think the 2025 pick is going to be mid for a team on pace to win 17 games this season? The Spurs have maybe $20 to $25 million in capspace and this draft looks to be only for role players, so I don't see how this team is 25 wins better next season short of making a trade for Trae. Even adding 25 wins the pick is still late lottery most likely.

[baseline bum]

I just don't get Stay the Course when the course has been an utter disaster. Pissed away the season for a 14% chance at drafting a guy who might end up Nicolas Batum if things go right for him. The fact that Pop loved this team last year and expected them to be able to start winning this year tells me the game has long passed him by too.

[exstatic]

Yeah I'll take Trae over three picks like Vassell + Primo + Sochan. Deal needs to get done. Though if the Hawks trade Trae elsewhere it would be a tank only benefiting the Spurs, which is why they won't do it.
They have to do something, or get raped in 2025, or get nothing if he walks in 2026. They’re on the clock, not us.

[spurraider21]

Yeah I'll take Trae over three picks like Vassell + Primo + Sochan. Deal needs to get done. Though if the Hawks trade Trae elsewhere it would be a tank only benefiting the Spurs, which is why they won't do it.
if the wolves faceplanted this season i think a Trae/Kat type deal could have been explored but with minnesota looking much better this year, that kind of out no longer exists

dont really see any other "star for star" type deals that the hawks could conceivably make to move young and not go into tank mode.

[spurraider21]

What makes you think the 2025 pick is going to be mid for a team on pace to win 17 games this season? The Spurs have maybe $20 to $25 million in capspace and this draft looks to be only for role players, so I don't see how this team is 25 wins better next season short of making a trade for Trae. Even adding 25 wins the pick is still late lottery most likely.
buzelis and malik monk aren't going to add 25 wins?

[Kevin]

My dream would be Trea and Lauri this off season. The Spurs have the draft capitol and cap space to make it happen. People will point out that Lauri could leave after next season but the Spurs would hold his Bird Rights so in order to leave he would have to leave behind Wemby and Trea plus 10's of millions of dollars.

I like the Spurs chances of keeping him. No way do you leave that kind of money and opportunity on the table plus Lauri doesn't seem like a big market guy at all.

[baseline bum]

They have to do something, or get raped in 2025, or get nothing if he walks in 2026. They’re on the clock, not us.

We're very much on the clock as a 15 win team on pace to win maybe two more the rest of the season while having the modern day Bill Russell on it. This roster is a dumpster fire in need of an almost complete purge and Wemby's not going to put up with it if this team enters 2027 without a good core around him. Maybe earlier if the team keeps drafting Primos and Sochans.

[Pauleta14]

Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.


I agree.

+ It looks like a poker game to me where Atlanta has the most pressure. It’s up to Brian Wright to play it right.

It’s not a given that Atlanta won’t finish lottery pick next season even if they try to avoid it. If they wait too long they’ll lose their best hope of rebuilding.

[scott]

My dream would be Trea and Lauri this off season. The Spurs have the draft capitol and cap space to make it happen. People will point out that Lauri could leave after next season but the Spurs would hold his Bird Rights so in order to leave he would have to leave behind Wemby and Trea plus 10's of millions of dollars.

I like the Spurs chances of keeping him. No way do you leave that kind of money and opportunity on the table plus Lauri doesn't seem like a big market guy at all.

Just my opinion but I love Lauri and think he would be an ideal fit, to the point that if we went out and got Lauri I no longer think we need to go get Trae. We could find a different, less costly solution at PG with Lauri and Wemby as the front court.

[LeBowen]

Just my opinion but I love Lauri and think he would be an ideal fit, to the point that if we went out and got Lauri I no longer think we need to go get Trae. We could find a different, less costly solution at PG with Lauri and Wemby as the front court.

I don't want Markkanen because Ainge's sole purpose in the league is to fleece people.
And he's up for extension, would definitely demand more than 30M per year.

[JPB]

One can always dream, but I mean if we could go from that shit show to a Wemby/Trae/Lauri big 3 in one summer, THAT, my friends, would an offseason.

Snap! From bottom league to contender, just like that :D

[scott]

I don't want Markkanen because Ainge's sole purpose in the league is to fleece people.
And he's up for extension, would definitely demand more than 30M per year.

We're completely on the same page about Ainge, and I would avoid even having exploratory talks with him. He'll fleece you for an SRP but just talking about the weather. But as far as the player goes... he truly would be ideal IMO.

He'll demand more than $30MM per year, but he's worth it. Not worried about paying guys who are worth the money.

[JeffDuncan]

…


Pardon the ellipsis, I’m just using this to reply to the earlier discussion.

About Naz Reid, I looked at some highlights, some game video and some stats, and I’ve decided we want him. Power forward, beside Wemby. Yes, he’s worth a first round pick, of some kind. I’ll go along with you on that.

How to get him? His contract price is no obstacle, but for Minny to trade him they would presumably be looking to minimize their luxury tax liability. They won’t want to take salary they have to keep. Thoughts?

They should be interested in draft picks a few years out. Nothing this year. The point about salary, again.

Gobert’s contract ends in the summer of ’26, and KAT’s in the summer of ‘28. That sets the target range, it appears. They should be interested in draft picks in 2027 and 2028, when they’ll have a chance of some salary breathing room, and may be especially interested in new, young players.

I haven’t kept track of all the Spurs’ draft picks. The Spurs own first round pick in ’28 shouldn’t be a major sacrifice. According to the Grand Plan that draft pick is supposed to be #30. Even if we’re not that fortunate, if the Spurs are still fretting about getting the highest possible pick in 2028, then saints preserve us, because something has gone horribly wrong.

Anyway, a deal for Naz Reid. An adequate amount of salary, that they won’t have to keep. The Spurs 1st round pick in ’28. That’s my offer to initiate the trade talk. Then see where it leads. I might be willing to offer more, depending.

Any comment?

With Reid, Sochan goes to the bench. My autotype wanted to make that “beach.” Either way, as long as he isn’t starting.

If I ruled the Spurs world, I would also make a serious effort to trade Vassell, and to get Grayson Allen. I already commented about Allen.

So:

PG
Grayson Allen
SF
Naz Reid
Wemby

About Tre Jones - and setting Trae Young aside for the moment - it wouldn’t be the end of the world if Tre Jones continued to start next season. Except, it would be perilously close to the end if he’s still the only legit NBA quality pg on the roster. Enough of this “in development” G league crapola. It has to stop. If Bugs Bunny walks by, takes out a great big mallet, and smacks Tre Jones as flat as a pancake, I do not want to watch Wesley or Branham out there “in development” trying to be a pg. The phrasing is frivolous but the point is serious. Enough of that nonsense. Development of players like Wesley and Branham is why the Austin team exists.

[LeBowen]

About Naz Reid, I looked at some highlights, some game video and some stats, and I’ve decided we want him.

Sorry, but this is hillarious.
As if either of us has any say in the actual decision making. :rollin


Power forward, beside Wemby. Yes, he’s worth a first round pick, of some kind. I’ll go along with you on that.

The reason I want him is that he's the best possible fit in the league out of any PF that's not an all-star.
But over the past few days I've been trying to find out how Wolves fans see their roster and they legit think Naz is their Manu in the making.
And he seems to love it here. Wouldn't surprise me if he's open to taking a tream-friendly deal. They look like the real deal, as long as Edwards is there.


How to get him? His contract price is no obstacle, but for Minny to trade him they would presumably be looking to minimize their luxury tax liability. They won’t want to take salary they have to keep. Thoughts?

They should be interested in draft picks a few years out. Nothing this year. The point about salary, again.

Gobert’s contract ends in the summer of ’26, and KAT’s in the summer of ‘28. That sets the target range, it appears. They should be interested in draft picks in 2027 and 2028, when they’ll have a chance of some salary breathing room, and may be especially interested in new, young players.

I haven’t kept track of all the Spurs’ draft picks. The Spurs own first round pick in ’28 shouldn’t be a major sacrifice. According to the Grand Plan that draft pick is supposed to be #30. Even if we’re not that fortunate, if the Spurs are still fretting about getting the highest possible pick in 2028, then saints preserve us, because something has gone horribly wrong.

Anyway, a deal for Naz Reid. An adequate amount of salary, that they won’t have to keep. The Spurs 1st round pick in ’28. That’s my offer to initiate the trade talk. Then see where it leads. I might be willing to offer more, depending.

Any comment?

Looking at their roster, that KAT contract is a franchise killer. Even though he's still a very good player, they must get rid of it.
Them doing really well without him just confirms KAT is obsolete for them. 5-1 in last 6, with the only loss being a 3pt heartbreak against Denver.
We obviously don't want anything to do with KAT's contract.

Edwards is their franchise and Gobert has been great for them. Doesn't have much trade value, so those two are keepers.
Conley also just signed a team-friendly extension.
McDaniels' contract kicks in next year, starts at 22M the next season. He's a good player, but just those 4 will be making 100M the next year.

Then we come to the biggest issue for them: will their ownership be willing to pay so much luxury tax? Especially with all the takeover rumors.
Best case scenario for them is getting rid of KAT and ownership being willing to pay some luxury tax. Then Naz probably goes out of reach for us.

Our issue is that when trading with contendes, we have noone those teams would want.
Our picks would just get re-routed to a third team that would give contender the players they want.

I'm talking absolute nonsense here, but the first thing that comes to my mind would be a three team deal with the Nets.
Spurs giving up picks for Reid and maybe even McDaniels, then Minnesota sending those picks and KAT in Brooklyn for a combination of Bridges/Cam Johnson/DFS/Cam Thomas.
Everyone wants to leave the Nets, but Nets have no picks and can't tank. So they take some picks and KAT as a fake franchise player.
Us and Timberwolves get 3-D guys we badly need.
Again, this is just nonsense and the first thing that came to my mind that would maybe be realistic for Timberwolves to improve while shedding salary.


If I ruled the Spurs world, I would also make a serious effort to trade Vassell, and to get Grayson Allen. I already commented about Allen.

The more I think about it, the more I'm lost at finding a team that would give up solid assets for Devin.
He's a decent scorer and nothing else. Will make almost 30M a year.
I guess he makes sense for Hawks/Cavs if we go for Trae/Garland because they both have two point guards, more or less.

I think Devin stays since Spurs aren't likely to go for either of those two, but I think he needs to be moved because having both guards on max deals isn't a smart thing in today's NBA unless they're both star players. And even then it doesn't work.

I just think that Wemby will be good enough to contend in no time, maybe even the next season and that PATFO should use his rookie contract to contend right away. Obviously if it can be done without wasting the pick stash, for a fair price. And with players that fit the timeline. I'd be reluctant to trade picks for anyone who's 28+ already unless it's an MVP level player. Older free agents are fine, though.

[scott]

Pardon the ellipsis, I’m just using this to reply to the earlier discussion.

About Naz Reid, I looked at some highlights, some game video and some stats, and I’ve decided we want him. Power forward, beside Wemby. Yes, he’s worth a first round pick, of some kind. I’ll go along with you on that.

How to get him? His contract price is no obstacle, but for Minny to trade him they would presumably be looking to minimize their luxury tax liability. They won’t want to take salary they have to keep. Thoughts?

They should be interested in draft picks a few years out. Nothing this year. The point about salary, again.

Gobert’s contract ends in the summer of ’26, and KAT’s in the summer of ‘28. That sets the target range, it appears. They should be interested in draft picks in 2027 and 2028, when they’ll have a chance of some salary breathing room, and may be especially interested in new, young players.

I haven’t kept track of all the Spurs’ draft picks. The Spurs own first round pick in ’28 shouldn’t be a major sacrifice. According to the Grand Plan that draft pick is supposed to be #30. Even if we’re not that fortunate, if the Spurs are still fretting about getting the highest possible pick in 2028, then saints preserve us, because something has gone horribly wrong.

Anyway, a deal for Naz Reid. An adequate amount of salary, that they won’t have to keep. The Spurs 1st round pick in ’28. That’s my offer to initiate the trade talk. Then see where it leads. I might be willing to offer more, depending.

Any comment?

With Reid, Sochan goes to the bench. My autotype wanted to make that “beach.” Either way, as long as he isn’t starting.

If I ruled the Spurs world, I would also make a serious effort to trade Vassell, and to get Grayson Allen. I already commented about Allen.

So:

PG
Grayson Allen
SF
Naz Reid
Wemby

About Tre Jones - and setting Trae Young aside for the moment - it wouldn’t be the end of the world if Tre Jones continued to start next season. Except, it would be perilously close to the end if he’s still the only legit NBA quality pg on the roster. Enough of this “in development” G league crapola. It has to stop. If Bugs Bunny walks by, takes out a great big mallet, and smacks Tre Jones as flat as a pancake, I do not want to watch Wesley or Branham out there “in development” trying to be a pg. The phrasing is frivolous but the point is serious. Enough of that nonsense. Development of players like Wesley and Branham is why the Austin team exists.

Only chiming in to comment on Spurs future draft capital. 2028 is a unique year (as are 2026 and 2030) because it is attached to a Top-1 protected swap with Boston. In theory, these picks are more valuable, because you can get a high pick by one of two teams being bad, not just relying on one team to be bad.

I'm not sure if there are any rules that prevent you from protecting a pick attached to a swap (I assume not but I'm not sure), but say you traded a Lotto Protected 2028 pick to Minn. If the Spurs are good and the pick is trending towards being in the late 20s, there is an extra degree of risk that it does not convey, because if the Celtics are bad, then the swap goes into effect, and the protection spikes Minn's pick. So just like a pick attached to a swap is MORE valuable when you have it unprotected, it is less valuable if it is protected.

Doesn't really matter in the end when thinking about Naz Reid, but just some fun pick quirks that I thought I'd mention.

[exstatic]

We're very much on the clock as a 15 win team on pace to win maybe two more the rest of the season while having the modern day Bill Russell on it. This roster is a dumpster fire in need of an almost complete purge and Wemby's not going to put up with it if this team enters 2027 without a good core around him. Maybe earlier if the team keeps drafting Primos and Sochans.

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

[baseline bum]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

What do you do for the half of the season Brogdon misses? Also LOL comparing Victor to Griffin and DeAndre Jordan.

[spurraider21]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.
andre miller had left the clippers by then

[baseline bum]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

Also not sure if they could even have MLE to spend without Portland taking Zollins off the Spurs hands. Not sure if they could say guarantee Graham and trade him and Branham for Brogdon and the Chicago pick and still have the MLE to spend, as I'm pretty rusty on the cap rules now. Would definitely be better just so they could have Collins for matching salary in a larger trade later on.

[scott]

It's such a bizarre angle to take that if you get Wemby someone who can throw lobs, then Wemby will be reduced to only a lob threat. Instead, just imagine Wemby's current progression plus 6 extra easy points every game. Where do I sign up?

[baseline bum]

It's such a bizarre angle to take that if you get Wemby someone who can throw lobs, then Wemby will be reduced to only a lob threat. Instead, just imagine Wemby's current progression plus 6 extra easy points every game. Where do I sign up?

Why throw lobs to the greatest lob threat the league has seen since Wilt? We play Classball here.

[LeBowen]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes


You said it yourself, there's more to life than lobs. Those two weren't good at much else, especially Deandre.
Clippers also had zero guards that were decent on defense other than CP3 and zero legit wings througout their period of contention.
And you can't with with a small guard as your best player unless he's the greatest shooter ever.


Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

I don't think we'd even need to use a first-rounder.
Portland already has too many point guards and Brogdon won't extend there.
His 22M for the next season means no contender can get him
A handful of second rounders should be enough.

I like the idea of Brogdon if he can stay healthy. But he can't.
He's been out for almost 2 months now with elbow tendinitis.
Last season is the only healthy season he's had since his rookie year.

[objective]

It's such a bizarre angle to take that if you get Wemby someone who can throw lobs, then Wemby will be reduced to only a lob threat. Instead, just imagine Wemby's current progression plus 6 extra easy points every game. Where do I sign up?

"If he gets easier scores due to great passes, he will never get over himself. He needs to build his character through constant disappointment and wasted effort. Missed opportunities is who we are.". - :pop:

[Seventyniner]

The problem with those Clippers was that CP3 was their best player. Griffin was an All-Star and DeAndre Jordan was a great lob finisher, but neither of them are anywhere close to what Victor will be soon or even is now.

Last year Trae Young was the best lob passer in the game by a country mile, according to BBall Index's stats.

1661084580936335376

That alone could make his salary worthwhile. He also hits pullup threes at 37.2% this season, not Wemby level (39.7%) but certainly good enough to generate gravity at the arc. Especially on such a high volume (6.7 pullup 3PA per game, insanity).

On the offensive end it's hard to imagine a better skill fit with Wemby than Young, at least among players that are reasonably likely to be available.

[Leetonidas]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

Except Wemby will be 100x better than Griffin ever was with a much more versatile skill set. Rofl comparing Wemby to Blake Griffin like lobs are the only thing that people want Young for

So your big idea is to trade for an extremely injury prone 30+ year old and hope the Pelicans will gift us their best perimeter defender for a pick? :lmao these are some awful takes man

[TD 21]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

:lmao Brogdon isn't worth the Bulls pick (Reid is).

As injury prone and on an expiring contract, he's probably worth the Hornets 1st and something else minor (not counting Graham as salary ballast) at this point.

[objective]

Also, supposedly, Brogdon has a rep for not being liked by his teammates. Trae gets a bad rep for how he dominates the ball in game, Brogdon seems to be more locker room based.

His nickname was "The President" for how polished and political he supposedly was, that kind of smoith fakeness can rub people the wrong way.

Him and Pop would probably get along famously though.

[scott]

What's Indiana's financial situation look like? How about some kind of deal for Nembhard and Jarace Walker?

[objective]

What's Indiana's financial situation look like? How about some kind of deal for Nembhard and Jarace Walker?

Some cap room but the hold for Siakam takes up most of it.

Indiana is also interesting for another reason.

They basically ended up swapping out Brogdon for a point guard who could shoot tons of threes, was an incredible passer, and a bad defender and as such went from a boring team with no future to a thrilling team on the come up

[TD 21]

What's Indiana's financial situation look like? How about some kind of deal for Nembhard and Jarace Walker?

They're fine financially. They love Nembhard (Carlisle claimed he'd go top 15 in a redraft last season) and fought to keep Walker out of the Siakam trade. They'll probably let Toppin walk and have Walker take his spot in the rotation next season.

Nembhard would be the typical uninspiring Spurs acquisition. He looks the part and is a big, non liability sort, he's just not dynamic enough in any one area offensively to give up what it'd take to get him.

[CGD]

The problem with those Clippers was that CP3 was their best player. Griffin was an All-Star and DeAndre Jordan was a great lob finisher, but neither of them are anywhere close to what Victor will be soon or even is now.

Last year Trae Young was the best lob passer in the game by a country mile, according to BBall Index's stats.

1661084580936335376

That alone could make his salary worthwhile. He also hits pullup threes at 37.2% this season, not Wemby level (39.7%) but certainly good enough to generate gravity at the arc. Especially on such a high volume (6.7 pullup 3PA per game, insanity).

On the offensive end it's hard to imagine a better skill fit with Wemby than Young, at least among players that are reasonably likely to be available.

Making good lob passes doesn’t equal success. Don’t accept the tweet’s premise blindly. Just ask Harden, CP3.

Trae Young will think he’s “the guy” if he comes here. He’s not. It will piss VW off over time unless Trae is willing to adapt. I have doubts.

[JeffDuncan]

Sorry, but this is hillarious.
As if either of us has any say in the actual decision making. :rollin


I find it odd that I apparently have to explain the English language to you.

You advocated for Naz Reid. I expressed doubt. (You may recall.) I then took a further look and decided I agreed with you.

You wanted him. I decided I wanted him, too. Thus, “we” wanted him. You+I=we.

What did you imagine I meant?



The reason I want him is that he's the best possible fit in the league out of any PF that's not an all-star.
…



He might be. I have not surveyed the entire field of possibilities. And neither have you.

Except, now you’re turning away from Naz because he’s popular with Minny fans. And this is a deciding factor.

Of course everyone here knows how overwhelmingly influential a few outspoken fans on a message board are, in controlling the behavior of their favorite franchise.

You have got to be kidding.


… Wouldn't surprise me if he's open to taking a tream-friendly deal. They look like the real deal, as long as Edwards is there.


And the Spurs do not look like the real deal, for the future, with Wemby. You say.



Looking at their roster, that KAT contract is a franchise killer. …



Oh dear, I was blissfully unaware that the T-Wolves franchise had passed away. Sad news.

Or is this only a great exaggeration, like the case of Mark Twain? If so, tsk tsk at you.

Myself, I’m more inclined to conclude that only the T-Wolves ownership is qualified to pass judgement on whether any malady their franchise may be suffering is terminal. Best leave the verdict to them.

And blah blah as you remake the Minny roster to suit yourself. I can’t find the motivation to take that seriously enough to reply in any detail.

Then you start playing with the trade machine and work out a three team deal. But why stop there? Go for it. Work out a colossal, record-setting 14 team deal in which you replace the entire Spurs roster, outside of Wemby, in one fell swoop. I’m not against that, I’d love to see it.


I'm talking absolute nonsense here, …


I hadn’t noticed.


… that would maybe be realistic for Timberwolves to improve …



What the freak is wrong with your head? Piss on the piddly Timberwolves improving. Piss on them every hour on the hour, so they can set their clocks accurately by when we piss on them.

We are Spurs fans. We do not want the T-Wolves to improve. Because we want to beat them.

You have lost your way.



The more I think about it, the more I'm lost at finding a team that would give up solid assets for Devin. …



Then don’t think so much.

[mo7888]

What's Indiana's financial situation look like? How about some kind of deal for Nembhard and Jarace Walker?

I like where you're going...

[tbdog]

The one thing is, I think the Spurs want protections on that Alt picks for Trae rather than unprotected.

[LeBowen]

JeffDuncan I just hope you're ok, because I've got no clue how to reply to all the nonsense you wrote.

[Atl Spur]

He is making too much on that third deal which should start in 2 years. Look at the teams who traded hauls for a star that did not work out. HOU was sent to 4 year tank without control of their picks moving forward. BKN was sent to the stone age. DAL was set back 4 years and had to dig themself out with even more picks. Wemby is as good as gone if that happens, that is why every GM wants a long rebuild.
Please read what I wrote closer….

[exstatic]

Some cap room but the hold for Siakam takes up most of it.

Indiana is also interesting for another reason.

They basically ended up swapping out Brogdon for a point guard who could shoot tons of threes, was an incredible passer, and a bad defender and as such went from a boring team with no future to a thrilling team on the come up

Indy is half a game above the play in. I want more than excitement,I want high playoff seeds and titles. Call me when they ring.

[baseline bum]

The one thing is, I think the Spurs want protections on that Alt picks for Trae rather than unprotected.

The whole point of them trading Trae would be so they can blow it up and tank for Flagg, Bailey, Dybantsa, and Boozer, and they can't do that if they don't have their own picks back unrestricted and with the Spurs 26 swap ripped up. Completely unrealistic to think you could get Trae Young for their picks back protected say top 5 or even top 2.

[tbdog]

The whole point of them trading Trae would be so they can blow it up and tank for Flagg, Bailey, Dybantsa, and Boozer, and they can't do that if they don't have their own picks back unrestricted and with the Spurs 26 swap ripped up. Completely unrealistic to think you could get Trae Young for their picks back protected say top 5 or even top 2.

Just heard a podcast on this topic and they agreed the Spurs shouldn't offer the picks back without protection. I think the 2026 swap unprotected and perhaps the 2025 top 3 might the starting bid. It's going to be an interesting offseason.

[Pauleta14]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

1000% this.

Even if he misses 20games with injuries Brogdon is THE perfect fit short term. Playmaking shooting and veteran leadership!!

I’d just nuanced about your « lobs » point, it’s not so much the lobs, but the pick and roll that would be so tough to guard.

[JeffDuncan]

JeffDuncan I just hope you're ok, because I've got no clue how to reply to all the nonsense you wrote.


Oh please. You are kidding nobody.

You still like Naz Reid, or what?

[Pauleta14]

I like the idea of Brogdon if he can stay healthy. But he can't.
He's been out for almost 2 months now with elbow tendinitis.
Last season is the only healthy season he's had since his rookie year.


We don’t need him 82 games, his veteran and mentoring role for a young drafted PG would be invaluable.

quality veterans have become a rarity and by effect expensive. We need them badly

I laught at FVV or Brooks deals last summer, I’m genuinely jealous today when I imagine how useful they’d be for the Spurs.

If Trae costs too much (in draft capital) Brogdon is the best solution short term imo

[exstatic]

The whole point of them trading Trae would be so they can blow it up and tank for Flagg, Bailey, Dybantsa, and Boozer, and they can't do that if they don't have their own picks back unrestricted and with the Spurs 26 swap ripped up. Completely unrealistic to think you could get Trae Young for their picks back protected say top 5 or even top 2.

The whole point of them trading Trae is that they have to. They cannot stand pat, or they get raped in 25, or nothing at all in 26.

[JPB]

The greatest lob passer of this millennium teams up with two of the greatest lob threats to form lob city, and what did they win? Nothing. Not even one trip to the finals. There’s more to life than lob passes

Spend the Chicago pick, send it to Portland for Brogdon, and extend him for 2 years, and let him be a game manager for 3 years to train up the PG we draft. He can pass, DEFEND, shoot the three, and I’m sure throw lob passes. Sign or trade for a few defenders and shooters. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey, send it to New Orleans for Herb Jones. He’s both.

Sorry, but what is the plan here? Losing some good assets for a "game" manager" for 3 years to train up the PG we draft? What PG are we talking about here, btw? What guarantees do you have you'll actually draft a future star PG? And how do you develop the kid with Brogon eating most of the minutes? Every great rookie is starting in his first season.

Why losing assets for a "trainer" for 3 years when you'll have minimum salary vets that'll do as wel without eating your playing time? Then lose some more assets for Herb Jones... OK, but where are you going for 3 years with a Wemby/Brogdon/Herb big 3? Nowhere, and you might not have enough assets left to sign that second superstar you need, assuming there's one available down the road...

Is the ultimate goal, ringing or being a play in/first round exit team? Or just be better. I do'nt see interest with Wemby in to lose assets for mid term guys that won't dramatically move the needle.

[JPB]

And "lob city" didn't have Victor freaking Wembanyama as one of those lob threats. You have a tendency to reduce things to only one part of the equation. Jordan and Griffin were mostly athletci freaks, put a prime Wemby in place of them with Paul and that's another story.... With Vic that would be the lobs + all the other things he brings in, with opponents having to pick their poison and not being able to focus on just defending the other things like they're doing now, quintupling him, which would give more space and freedom from Victor to operate.

I mean a prime Wemby/Paul/Griffin (or Jordan) big 3 is certainly ringing.

[exstatic]

Sorry, but what is the plan here? Losing some good assets for a "game" manager" for 3 years to train up the PG we draft? What PG are we talking about here, btw? What guarantees do you have you'll actually draft a future star PG? And how do you develop the kid with Brogon eating most of the minutes? Every great rookie is starting in his first season.

Why losing assets for a "trainer" for 3 years when you'll have minimum salary vets that'll do as wel without eating your playing time? Then lose some more assets for Herb Jones... OK, but where are you going for 3 years with a Wemby/Brogdon/Herb big 3? Nowhere, and you might not have enough assets left to sign that second superstar you need, assuming there's one available down the road...

Is the ultimate goal, ringing or being a play in/first round exit team? Or just be better. I do'nt see interest with Wemby in to lose assets for mid term guys that won't dramatically move the needle.

The point of the transition period is to NOT suck while you use and develop the remaining picks, sort of a trades version of Houston last summer. Not sure which minimum salary PG is going to bring the shooting, defense and game management of Brogdon, but that Chicago pick is house money, coming from trading unrestricted FA Demar Derozan. Just imagine in the NBA desert of first round picks that exists now,a team offering you a FRP for an unrestricted FA.

As for your question, the goal is play in/first round exit, THEN a ring. There’s no universe where you don’t go through the progression.

[tbdog]

Also to add, ALT must shred salary this off season. Looks like they'll lose Bey to injury all year. That's why Murray or Trae are gone next season.

[JeffDuncan]

Only chiming in to comment on Spurs future draft capital. 2028 is a unique year (as are 2026 and 2030) because it is attached to a Top-1 protected swap with Boston. In theory, these picks are more valuable, because you can get a high pick by one of two teams being bad, not just relying on one team to be bad.
…



I’m glad you jumped in, that’s good info. I see now, that pick was involved in the Derrick White trade. Thanks.

[JeffDuncan]

We don’t need him [Brogdon] 82 games, his veteran and mentoring role for a young drafted PG would be invaluable.
…



You won’t get mentoring from somebody who can’t practice with the team because he’s hurt, and who can’t travel with the team because he has to stay home to do his prescribed medical rehab. The team is on the road for half its games, y’know.

He could phone it in, you think? Don’t be so nonchalant about an injury history. It seriously matters whether a guy can play.

And you want to enter his salary on the salary sheet as “invaluable.” The accountants will love that one.

If you want a mentor, the thing to do is to sign a grizzled veteran who’s almost out of the league, for the vet minimum. You tell him up front that he can only expect to play a few minutes in garage time, and his main job will be to help the kids learn the game. There’s your mentor.

The only reason to sign Brogdon would be to have him play. That’s it. I’m not saying I’m against that. He could improve the team. If he can pass the physical.

[exstatic]

You won’t get mentoring from somebody who can’t practice with the team because he’s hurt, and who can’t travel with the team because he has to stay home to do his prescribed medical rehab. The team is on the road for half its games, y’know.

He could phone it in, you think? Don’t be so nonchalant about an injury history. It seriously matters whether a guy can play.

And you want to enter his salary on the salary sheet as “invaluable.” The accountants will love that one.

If you want a mentor, the thing to do is to sign a grizzled veteran who’s almost out of the league, for the vet minimum. You tell him up front that he can only expect to play a few minutes in garage time, and his main job will be to help the kids learn the game. There’s your mentor.

The only reason to sign Brogdon would be to have him play. That’s it. I’m not saying I’m against that. He could improve the team. If he can pass the physical.

With Portland, it’s hard t know who’s really injured, and who’s a healthy scratch with a medical excuse, because they’ve been in the tank almost as long as Detroit. Dame played only 89 games his last two seasons there, combined, yet has played 66/71 Milwaukee games this year.

[JPB]

The point of the transition period is to NOT suck while you use and develop the remaining picks, sort of a trades version of Houston last summer. Not sure which minimum salary PG is going to bring the shooting, defense and game management of Brogdon, but that Chicago pick is house money, coming from trading unrestricted FA Demar Derozan. Just imagine in the NBA desert of first round picks that exists now,a team offering you a FRP for an unrestricted FA.

As for your question, the goal is play in/first round exit, THEN a ring. There’s no universe where you don’t go through the progression.

And there's also no universe where we've seen a Wemby in a team with so many assets. Wemby is that special that you can build a contender pretty fast, if you trade for a Trae (for example) you still have enough assets to add a couple elite role players pretty fast then attract ring chasers and minimum vet guys around in the next couple years. Actually he's that special that it IS what you should do. you can't afford gambling too much or wasting your assets for a play in appearence. Who cares?

And the point is precisely that you're taking your journey with the same core... You do'nt go from one phase (with the players you wanna trade and waste assets for) then OK phase 2, now let's change our roster again and build our contender with some other guys...

HOU? they're not even a play in team now, and don't have a Wemby on their roster. Sengun is their only surefire star and there's nothing that say they're on path to contending. Ok, they won more games than last year but then what? They're on the treadmill, hoping one or two of the bunch of youngsters they have will pan out, just like we hoped with our roster.

Your project still implies to use some of our assets to trade for some guys that will help make the transttiion until our picks n the next 3 years will develop and constitue the contending core? What picks and what guarantee they pan out? Do you wanna to take the risk of wasting Wemby's 4 first years or so with the hope 2 of spurs future picks are gonna become superstars?

It's easier to trade for a star than drafting a future one. there's no point "transtioning" when you get a possible GOAT on your team in 2024. Keep your assets to go big and directly build that contender. Bring me a star with them or don't use them at all, at the risk of missing on a big trade in the future, let's say a Luka or some elite role players because you're lacking a few picks for that.

Wemby is unique, so think unique.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Also to add, ALT must shred salary this off season. Looks like they'll lose Bey to injury all year. That's why Murray or Trae are gone next season.

Atlanta don't need to shed salary. They won't be able to re-sign Bey but other than that they can fit under the tax without a problem. How exactly will the team improve is another matter.

They're not forced to move anyone unless it's for a package they like and neither are they losing Young for nothing in 2026.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Vecevic?

:lol

Yeah, the big euro guy *insert name here*. My bad! :lol

[exstatic]

Atlanta don't need to shed salary. They won't be able to re-sign Bey but other than that they can fit under the tax without a problem. How exactly will the team improve is another matter.

They're not forced to move anyone unless it's for a package they like and neither are they losing Young for nothing in 2026.
Yes, because magically, he’s going to stay in a situation that’s been deteriorating for 3 years, with no way to improve.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Yes, because magically, he’s going to stay in a situation that’s been deteriorating for 3 years, with no way to improve.

Why wouldn’t he stay? They can offer the most money and it’s not like contenders will create 45 mil of cap space for him in the summer of 26. Lower level stars don’t move in free agency anymore. They get their money and ask for a trade later.

[objective]

Re: ATL cap space and the tax

While Capela is up after next season, Jalen Johnson is entering the extension window and might have played himself into a max contract offer if he waits for restricted free agency. Might be able to squeeze it out if them on an extension.

His agent is with Klutch. Klutch have done team friendly deals with Dejounte, guess we'll see what happens here

[objective]

I wonder if ATL having the lottery protected Kings pick will have an effect on how they operate. Kings pick is protected 1-14 in 2024, 1-12 in 2025 1-10 in 2026, then becomes 2 seconds

[exstatic]

I wonder if ATL having the lottery protected Kings pick will have an effect on how they operate. Kings pick is protected 1-14 in 2024, 1-12 in 2025 1-10 in 2026, then becomes 2 seconds

As of right now, that pick will convey this year.

[scott]

1773092636972462424

Found this interesting.

Trae proponents will say that his shot quality would improve with Wemby's gravity improving opportunities.

Trae haters will say he's a bonehead who takes bad shots.

But the reality is that this list is made up by some of the best players in the league, who in theory bring with them some extra defensive attention. Ballers gonna ball.

I'm not exactly sure how to conceptualize what this would mean for a potential Trae-Wemby pairing... but, it's a data point.

[Seventyniner]

With the Hawks beating the Celtics twice in 4 days and Dejounte balling out tonight (44 points tonight and the game-winner, albeit on bad efficiency), I wonder if the Hawks would rather just get a haul for Young and put the keys in Dejounte's hands going forward.

[CGD]

^ they can find their haul anywhere other than San Antonio

[scott]

With the Hawks beating the Celtics twice in 4 days and Dejounte balling out tonight (44 points tonight and the game-winner, albeit on bad efficiency), I wonder if the Hawks would rather just get a haul for Young and put the keys in Dejounte's hands going forward.

This is part of the inconvenient truth that Spurs fans don't want to believe. The Hawks actually have plenty of pathways to try and get better, with or without Trae. They aren't stuck in this binary reality where they either give us Trae for nothing or hand us Top 5 picks. It's very possible we end up with some very mid to meh FRPs

[Chinook]

This is part of the inconvenient truth that Spurs fans don't want to believe. The Hawks actually have plenty of pathways to try and get better, with or without Trae. They aren't stuck in this binary reality where they either give us Trae for nothing or hand us Top 5 picks. It's very possible we end up with some very mid to meh FRPs

It's an important thing to note, especially since it's also very possible the Hawks want to trade Young while the Spurs don't want to acquire him. In that case, they'd move him to another team without the Spurs having that leverage play. Either way, though, given ATL's track record, I wouldn't assume any move they make will automatically discount the picks. There are win-now paths they can take, but those might well backfire. As I said above, my favorite scenario is possibly for the Spurs to find a way to use their position to get something good in a three-team deal for a club that wants Murray or Young. Most of the teams rumored to be interested have vet pieces they'd be likely to include that could help SA. I mentioned Middleton above, but Reaves and Claxton are possibilities too, as well as whatever a third team would move to absorb KAT.

The question I'm thinking about right now is this: Had the Spurs traded for Murray around the time the rumors were heating up, what would the team look like right now? I'm assuming for this that they trade some combination of Graham and McDermott, so the rest of the roster is mostly intact. Would the Spurs have won a substantial number of additional games? Would they be in disarray? Would Wemby be getting easier looks or fighting for touches? How would Vassell handle the competition for perimeter touches, and how would Jones and Wesley slot into the rotation? Would DJM have rediscovered his defense/rebounding, or would he be more concerned about accolades? Would the Hawks have tumbled past the Raptors, pushing them out of the top-6? Would the Spurs have let them back in by going on a winning streak? So many twists it could've taken.

[scott]

It's an important thing to note, especially since it's also very possible the Hawks want to trade Young while the Spurs don't want to acquire him. In that case, they'd move him to another team without the Spurs having that leverage play. Either way, though, given ATL's track record, I wouldn't assume any move they make will automatically discount the picks. There are win-now paths they can take, but those might well backfire. As I said above, my favorite scenario is possibly for the Spurs to find a way to use their position to get something good in a three-team deal for a club that wants Murray or Young. Most of the teams rumored to be interested have vet pieces they'd be likely to include that could help SA. I mentioned Middleton above, but Reaves and Claxton are possibilities too, as well as whatever a third team would move to absorb KAT.

The question I'm thinking about right now is this: Had the Spurs traded for Murray around the time the rumors were heating up, what would the team look like right now? I'm assuming for this that they trade some combination of Graham and McDermott, so the rest of the roster is mostly intact. Would the Spurs have won a substantial number of additional games? Would they be in disarray? Would Wemby be getting easier looks or fighting for touches? How would Vassell handle the competition for perimeter touches, and how would Jones and Wesley slot into the rotation? Would DJM have rediscovered his defense/rebounding, or would he be more concerned about accolades? Would the Hawks have tumbled past the Raptors, pushing them out of the top-6? Would the Spurs have let them back in by going on a winning streak? So many twists it could've taken.

To the first point, I agree 100%. I would not bet either way on the Hawks being better or worse no matter what moves they make... their range of outcomes is wide and they are somewhat unpredictable. I just think the thinking that they are stuck and we hold them over a barrel is wishful thinking. I like the idea of us facilitating Young elsewhere for pieces that perhaps better fit what we are doing but still represent a significant upgrade (and they certainly must, for the price we'd be paying). I have no idea what those peices would be (Middleton, Reaves or Claxton don't get me too exited, personally) - but I'm sure there may be some creativity to be found.

To the second point, I think we might have won a handful more games, maybe pushing us above CHA and maybe even POR, but I think we would have maintained our position relative to TOR. We likely would have seen a lot of chemistry building with some interesting strategic choices along the way where we drop games. I feel like the FO sees what we all see: a weak draft, and that the marginal difference between the 3rd best odds and the 5th best odds aren't all that concerning given the talent to be picked from. However, the value in keeping TOR at 6 or worse is evident.

With all that said, maybe the wishful thinking is all mine.

[Seventyniner]

This is part of the inconvenient truth that Spurs fans don't want to believe. The Hawks actually have plenty of pathways to try and get better, with or without Trae. They aren't stuck in this binary reality where they either give us Trae for nothing or hand us Top 5 picks. It's very possible we end up with some very mid to meh FRPs

Personally, I had never been under that impression. I knew all along that the Hawks picks were better seen as lottery tickets that might all lose.

The point I was trying to make is that the Hawks might be more willing to trade Young now, whether to the Spurs or another team, than they were a week ago.

[The Truth #6]

They'll probably have to get in the KAT business to find a trade partner but MIN might not want Trae at all with Ant being their alpha. I still think that's more likely than Spurs giving up Atlanta's picks.

[Mnky]

1773092636972462424

Found this interesting.

Trae proponents will say that his shot quality would improve with Wemby's gravity improving opportunities.

Trae haters will say he's a bonehead who takes bad shots.

But the reality is that this list is made up by some of the best players in the league, who in theory bring with them some extra defensive attention. Ballers gonna ball.

I'm not exactly sure how to conceptualize what this would mean for a potential Trae-Wemby pairing... but, it's a data point.

People seem to not comprehend how much attention he gets from defenses. Defenses literally start guarding him at half court. Opens the court for others so much.

[DAF86]

Just heard that this season the Hawks are 12 and 10 without Young. 22-29 with him.

[DAF86]

People seem to not comprehend how much attention he gets from defenses. Defenses literally start guarding him at half court. Opens the court for others so much.

It doesn't open the court enough to have a better winning % with him than without him, apparently.

[TD 21]

Just heard that this season the Hawks are 12 and 10 without Young. 22-29 with him.

Relatively small sample size with no context (quality of opponent, state of their health, were they 2nd night of a back-to-back, 3 in 4, 4 in 5, 5 in 7? etc.).

Here's what's not: They've consistently had a top 5 offense for years with him on the floor and no bona fide second star.

[Mnky]

It doesn't open the court enough to have a better winning % with him than without him, apparently.

Atlanta playing good defense. Getting healthy. Young guys growing up and competing. Atlanta had been improving all year.

They won a game with DJ taking 40+ shots. Sometimes, things just work out.

[manufan10]

https://youtu.be/RfqshiXS4GM?si=YSFVE8984LVi71u0&t=2212

Tim McMahon is saying that discussions within the Hawks is starting to become legitimate about trading Trae Young. He said previously was just guys "talking into a microphone." He also names the Spurs as a potential landing spot, but does say that is something that could be talked about (by the media) and is without really knowing the Spurs' side and if there is any interest.

[objective]

As of right now, that pick will convey this year.

For now, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Kings end up in the lottery.

They've slipped to 8th and will probably be in the play-in tournament. Huerter just had surgery and Monk is out 4-6 weeks, they're a good candidate for an upset loser.

[exstatic]

One thing I haven’t seen here yet applies to something that has happened since the ASG. The league was so revolted by that game, that they felt they needed to take action to make games competitive and compelling. There was no statement, or released points of emphasis for referees, but fouls, FTs, and ORtg are all down noticeably, and for one reason. Players are not getting the calls they used to by just flailing and throwing themselves into a defender. I watched a number of YouTubes on this subject that break it down with video, and stats. One thing that struck me was that one of the most common video subjects of before and after is Trae Young. If he’s not going to get to the line as much, he becomes less valuable, since his awful defense will be offset by less.

The consensus seems to be that this is a trial period, and if the league is satisfied, there will be a publicized rollout next season. I for one am glad. The tilt towards an offense only league had gotten totally out of hand, and it’s far past time for a correction. You literally couldn’t touch a player with a live dribble.

[sinok]

Trae Young = Ball dominance.
Is that archetype compatible with Victor?
I would rather see a Derick White morphed into a PG with Vic.

[TrueSpursFan]

Trae Young = Ball dominance.
Is that archetype compatible with Victor?
I would rather see a Derick White morphed into a PG with Vic.
Young has averaged about 10 assist per game in his whole career, that’s what Wemby needs, someone who can run the point and give him the ball in the right spot every time regardless if you consider him call dominate.

[JPB]

Whether you're pro Trae or not, it's fair to say he wouldn't be as ball dominant with the spurs he's been in ATL, which he would be conscious of coming in.

He would understand spurs wouldn't sign him to make his own, personal show with Wemby only here to rebound his misses and that he would have to "sacrifice" touches and plays. But on the other side, he would benefit from the attention Vic is getting, so the question is mostly about complementarity and chemistry.

[Mr. Body]

People seem to not comprehend how much attention he gets from defenses. Defenses literally start guarding him at half court. Opens the court for others so much.

This must explain why they're so much better without him.

[LeBowen]

This must explain why they're so much better without him.

Tell me you don't watch other teams without telling me you don't watch other teams.

12-9 since Trae got injured.
11 of those 21 games were against sub .500 teams.
6-5 in games against teams over .500.

Wins:
Magic - no Banchero.
Knicks - everyone injured.
Cavaliers - no Mitchell, Mobley, Strus.
Clippers - no Russ, but that's like whatever.
Celtics x2 - In one win against the Celtics they shot 18-36 from deep and other one was DJ's Kobe game. Not discrediting them, just saying.

Deandre Hunter was out for two months earlier in the season. Returned just before Trae went down and he's averaging 17ppg on 40% from 3pt since.
*In before you say he's playing better without Trae.

Their issues are obvious, Trae and DJ are a pretty bad fit together.

Let me ask you this, going with your logic, what was the issue with Kings and Pacers before that trade?
Since you're ignoring everything but win percentage, who was the problem in your opinion back then?
Are you going to tell us that either Fox or Haliburton were to blame for Kings not making it work with two of them?

[Knoxxx]

One thing I haven’t seen here yet applies to something that has happened since the ASG. The league was so revolted by that game, that they felt they needed to take action to make games competitive and compelling. There was no statement, or released points of emphasis for referees, but fouls, FTs, and ORtg are all down noticeably, and for one reason. Players are not getting the calls they used to by just flailing and throwing themselves into a defender. I watched a number of YouTubes on this subject that break it down with video, and stats. One thing that struck me was that one of the most common video subjects of before and after is Trae Young. If he’s not going to get to the line as much, he becomes less valuable, since his awful defense will be offset by less.

The consensus seems to be that this is a trial period, and if the league is satisfied, there will be a publicized rollout next season. I for one am glad. The tilt towards an offense only league had gotten totally out of hand, and it’s far past time for a correction. You literally couldn’t touch a player with a live dribble.

I certainly noticed that the Spurs were called for mad ticky tack fouls the first half of the season, and that does not see as bad now. Do you have a source or other anecdotes related to the ASG, because honestly I didn't watch it. But I have noticed a number of NBA players that are experts at drawing a foul, THEN shooting. It seems like that is backwards, they should be looking to shoot, and any foul calls be incidental to that.

Or, is the main evidence re the ASG simply that too many FTs were shot?

Edit: OK, I see there are plenty of articles about this: NBA competition committee looking to give defenders more freedom, and scoring is down since All-Star break - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-competition-committee-looking-to-give-defenders-more-freedom-and-scoring-is-down-since-all-star-break/)

[scott]

The reduction in foul calls isn't the work of some shadowy NBA officiating cabal like exstatic is making it seem... it's been widely covered, as you pointed out, Knoxxx.

With that said, it's a very good point that needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating a player like Trae (or any other player who successfully gets to the line a lot)

[lefty]

Just heard that this season the Hawks are 12 and 10 without Young. 22-29 with him.

Context?
It would be interesting too see who their opponents were during both stretches and if they had all their players etc

[exstatic]

The reduction in foul calls isn't the work of some shadowy NBA officiating cabal like exstatic is making it seem... it's been widely covered, as you pointed out, Knoxxx.

With that said, it's a very good point that needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating a player like Trae (or any other player who successfully gets to the line a lot)

Never said that, just that it was sudden, like the drop of a guillotine immediately after the ASG and that the league hasn’t said a word, which is unusual to say the least. If there’s a major change to officiating, the league normally releases guidance given to the referees. Knoxxx went looking after reading my post, which said people are vlogging about this. Not so very secret, then.

Do better, scott.

[scott]

One thing I haven’t seen here yet applies to something that has happened since the ASG. The league was so revolted by that game, that they felt they needed to take action to make games competitive and compelling. There was no statement, or released points of emphasis for referees, but fouls, FTs, and ORtg are all down noticeably, and for one reason. Players are not getting the calls they used to by just flailing and throwing themselves into a defender. I watched a number of YouTubes on this subject that break it down with video, and stats. One thing that struck me was that one of the most common video subjects of before and after is Trae Young. If he’s not going to get to the line as much, he becomes less valuable, since his awful defense will be offset by less.

The consensus seems to be that this is a trial period, and if the league is satisfied, there will be a publicized rollout next season. I for one am glad. The tilt towards an offense only league had gotten totally out of hand, and it’s far past time for a correction. You literally couldn’t touch a player with a live dribble.

As far as I know, the search function still doesn’t work, so I’m not going to go search for it, but there was even a thread about this very topic on this message board - but you are presenting it as though this is some amazing new discovery that only sleuthy vloggers have found.

I realize your whole schtick is to never research ANYTHING before you post… but c’mon man.

[exstatic]

As far as I know, the search function still doesn’t work, so I’m not going to go search for it, but there was even a thread about this very topic on this message board - but you are presenting it as though this is some amazing new discovery that only sleuthy vloggers have found.

I realize your whole schtick is to never research ANYTHING before you post… but c’mon man.

If it was here, I missed it. It happens.

[Mnky]

Tell me you don't watch other teams without telling me you don't watch other teams.

12-9 since Trae got injured.
11 of those 21 games were against sub .500 teams.
6-5 in games against teams over .500.

Wins:
Magic - no Banchero.
Knicks - everyone injured.
Cavaliers - no Mitchell, Mobley, Strus.
Clippers - no Russ, but that's like whatever.
Celtics x2 - In one win against the Celtics they shot 18-36 from deep and other one was DJ's Kobe game. Not discrediting them, just saying.

Deandre Hunter was out for two months earlier in the season. Returned just before Trae went down and he's averaging 17ppg on 40% from 3pt since.
*In before you say he's playing better without Trae.

Their issues are obvious, Trae and DJ are a pretty bad fit together.

Let me ask you this, going with your logic, what was the issue with Kings and Pacers before that trade?
Since you're ignoring everything but win percentage, who was the problem in your opinion back then?
Are you going to tell us that either Fox or Haliburton were to blame for Kings not making it work with two of them?

Not only is the outlet scorer, Hunter, helping the offense quite a bit, but the defense makes way more sense without two PGs. As you said, the DJ and Young pairing just isn't a good fit. DJs defense has fallen off a cliff, and young has never been a good defender. Replacing young or DJ with someone who can switch and play a more supportive role helps everyone as well.

Quite a few factors going on, but the roster is just not built to feature two PGs. DJ, is a ball dominant PG. He needs the ball in his hands to play well. Same as Trae. Their off ball movement isn't that great either so they hinder eachother without the ball as well. It benefits everyone to move one of them.

[TD 21]

Trae Young = Ball dominance.
Is that archetype compatible with Victor?
I would rather see a Derick White morphed into a PG with Vic.

Who wouldn't? Good luck finding it.

Maybe they take another run at Murray, but it'd have to be an alternate construction (like swapping the Spurs and Hawks natural 1sts as part of the package) as opposed to just a lesser version of the trade they made for the Hawks to consider it.

[manufan10]

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[Kevin]

1777685145190879368

He'll become a Spur this summer for reasons already covered a 100 times in this thread. Lob city!

[Seventyniner]

At the very least I expect the Spurs to try and get in on a Hawks trade of Murray or Young as a third-team facilitator. I don't know how much interest they have in actually acquiring either one of them.

[Joseph Kony]

1777685145190879368
ATL is probably going to convince themselves they're better off with Murray once Trae comes back and they inevitably flame out in the play in.

Young will be a Spur this summer imho. Just accept it ST, it's inevitable

[Mr. Body]

1777685145190879368

Something of a shift from 'Trae Young has multiple suitors.' No way of really knowing, but it suggests Young may not be able to get moved. Still don't really see a market for him. Again, I can think of only two teams that might have any interest him, maybe three:

- Lakers, desperate to extend the LeBron timeline and frantic to do something, anything. May depend on if they can bust through the play-in.
- Wizards, just wanting someone to put butts in the seat. But he didn't even get enough votes to start in the All-Star game in an EC without many great guards.

And...

- Utah, maybe. But seriously doubt it.

I can't think of a single other team in the league who would go for Trae Young right now. Literally can't. He makes a lot of money, is inefficient and high usage, dominates the ball, you have to construct a roster around him and he just doesn't win games. Atlanta is best to realize they have to keep him and limp along. Dejounte should get some interest. He's actually competitive.

[spurraider21]

Utah has to do... something. they've had overperforming starts to the last 2 seasons then fell off. lauri is really good, but he's also going to be going into the last year of his deal and will become expensive soon. and they dont have a great roster around him either. probably wont get a great pick in this draft, not that there are great picks to be had.

they also will have cap room to make a splash move. i just dont know if Trae is the play they'll go with

[spurraider21]

i could see brooklyn try to shuffle and make a move.

bulls wil flail but doubt they can pull anything off

[mo7888]

So, Trae comes back and DJ sits and they lose to Charlotte...

Hmmm

[exstatic]

So, Trae comes back and DJ sits and they lose to Charlotte...

Hmmm

My first thought, but they’re not really playing for anything. They can’t drop out of the play in, and they can’t play up to #8, either.

[mo7888]

My first thought, but they’re not really playing for anything. They can’t drop out of the play in, and they can’t play up to #8, either.

I know, but you've gotta think they wanted him to get a W to help the optics here .. I'm in the camp that doesn't want to trade for him anyway, but I would like them to move him elsewhere for picks..

[Mnky]

So, Trae comes back and DJ sits and they lose to Charlotte...

Hmmm

This type of post exposes the people who don't actually watch ball, just search scores and jump to conclusions.

In 20 minutes, Trae was perfect from the field, 14 points, 11 assists( in 20 minutes is crazy), 4 rebounds and +9.

They sat their core and played their backups the entire 4th quarter.

[Jordan Jackson]

This type of post exposes the people who don't actually watch ball, just search scores and jump to conclusions.

In 20 minutes, Trae was perfect from the field, 14 points, 11 assists( in 20 minutes is crazy), 4 rebounds and +9.

They sat their core and played their backups the entire 4th quarter.


Save me the time posting this. They made me almost doubt what game I just watched. Trae was sub out mid 3Q. He was great tonight.

With that said, I’d be shocked if the Spurs trade for him. Front office probably too scared to do that. Zero confidence in Brian Wright and I don’t think Pop has any in him too. Problem.

[BatManu20]

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[Raven]

This type of post exposes the people who don't actually watch ball, just search scores and jump to conclusions.

In 20 minutes, Trae was perfect from the field, 14 points, 11 assists( in 20 minutes is crazy), 4 rebounds and +9.

They sat their core and played their backups the entire 4th quarter.

i can see you are quietly glossing over him having as many TOs as shot attempted over 20 minutes

[Mnky]

i can see you are quietly glossing over him having as many TOs as shot attempted over 20 minutes

He averages 4 a game for his career. It's the type of player he is. Curry averages one less a game with much less time holding the ball. 4 a game is bad.

Much like the last poster I quoted, its apparent youre not watching the game and looking for something to "gloss." His impact was obvious.

He was +9.

That means with him on the court, they were 9 points better than the other team. That doesn't mean as much for role players, but when you're the main attraction and running the show, +9 is a good game.

[Mnky]

1778176548656312607

Trae alone wouldn't make them a contender so there isn't a reason to get into a bidding war or over pay for him, especially with that contract. If a good deal comes up, I don't doubt at all they take it serious as anyone would but their superstar is 20 and they have a multitude of assets to create a foundation for his run. That 2025 draft will be a great opportunity for just that. At the end of the day though, there's only so many roster spots. They likely can't draft 6 rookies in 2025, especially with a big draft in 22, and another one coming up for 24. They have to do something with those picks.

[Mnky]

Save me the time posting this. They made me almost doubt what game I just watched. Trae was sub out mid 3Q. He was great tonight.

With that said, I’d be shocked if the Spurs trade for him. Front office probably too scared to do that. Zero confidence in Brian Wright and I don’t think Pop has any in him too. Problem.

Yea I don't see it being too likely but the players do seem to like eachother and atlanta does need to move one of those PGs and try to get some draft Capitol back. Makes sense that the spurs would be involved but I don't see him doing a deal where they're not ripping atlanta off again tbh

[Pauleta14]

1778176548656312607

That confirms what many of us feared

Be ready for another season of Sochan Tre and Champagnie starting... :depressed

[mo7888]

1778176548656312607

That would be depressing..

[mo7888]

This type of post exposes the people who don't actually watch ball, just search scores and jump to conclusions.

In 20 minutes, Trae was perfect from the field, 14 points, 11 assists( in 20 minutes is crazy), 4 rebounds and +9.

They sat their core and played their backups the entire 4th quarter.

I watch plenty of ball, but you're right in that I didn't watch the Atlanta game. My post isn't referring to how Trae played because I could care less. It's about optics when it comes to trade value. The fact is that the team has been performing better with DJ than it has when Trae plays and that affects his trade value.

I'm on record as not wanting him here, so I don't care if he shot well, had to many turnovers, or sat out the 4th. I care about Atlanta being bad next year and Trae's trade value or lack thereof impacts that.

[The Truth #6]

That confirms what many of us feared

Be ready for another season of Sochan Tre and Champagnie starting... :depressed

I agree. I suppose there's a small chance they say that to improve their negotiating strength. But this seems straightforward and in character. But curious if this indirectly came from VW. Spurs don't usually reveal much to reporters.

[Bruno]

1777685145190879368

Even Hawks GM admitted just after the trade deadline that the Young/Murray pairing wasn't working:
https://twitter.com/KLChouinard/status/1756002850851762369

Hawks will try to trade again Murray this summer. Young won't be traded unless he asks it.

On a side note, these are Murray's stats while Young was injured:
23 games (12W - 11L)
37.6 minutes
24.8 points with a 44/36/73 shooting
9.2 assists
3.3 turnovers

[KobesAchilles]

If we are literally not looking to get any star player while Wemby is cheap, this is beyond stupid. There's zero reason not to do this. Bc there isn't a star player that will "handicap the future" like doom and gloom posters would have us believe.

I don't want Trae Young really, however if he costs $40 million a year and people are pissing all over his defense and we pay KJ AND Collins $40 million a year and they play piss poor defense too and suck at running an offense... how is that any better for the Spurs? What's the argument? Well Trae costs alot and he plays no defense. I'd rather pay KJ and Collins the same money to suck on defense and not be as good offensively.

Also the Spurs can't even "focus" on the draft only bc they don't even know if they have two FRPs or one. Also why is Champ starting? Why is he on the team? We aren't strapped for cash. We can easily sign a player. Tbh I wouldn't mind trading Tor pick (if it conveys this year) for Reid. He's young and a lot better than any person we would get this year with it.

[DAF86]

If we are literally not looking to get any star player while Wemby is cheap, this is beyond stupid. There's zero reason not to do this. Bc there isn't a star player that will "handicap the future" like doom and gloom posters would have us believe.

I don't want Trae Young really, however if he costs $40 million a year and people are pissing all over his defense and we pay KJ AND Collins $40 million a year and they play piss poor defense too and suck at running an offense... how is that any better for the Spurs? What's the argument? Well Trae costs alot and he plays no defense. I'd rather pay KJ and Collins the same money to suck on defense and not be as good offensively.

Also the Spurs can't even "focus" on the draft only bc they don't even know if they have two FRPs or one. Also why is Champ starting? Why is he on the team? We aren't strapped for cash. We can easily sign a player. Tbh I wouldn't mind trading Tor pick (if it conveys this year) for Reid. He's young and a lot better than any person we would get this year with it.

Well, for once, Keldon and Collins are already yours and won't cost you 3 or 4 unprotected first round picks.

Also, getting the wrong star player absolutely sets your team back years. Plenty of examples to go around: Westbrook in Houston, Harden in Philadelphia, Kyrie and Harden in Brooklyn, Beal in Phoenix, Murray in Atlanta, etc.

It's not as easy as "let's swap this two mediocre players for a flawed star since they are making the same money". When you make a commitment for a player of this caliber, you are making a multi-year commitement, if said player isn't the right choice, you are stuck with him for a while and getting out of that situation might be just as costly as getting into it in the first place.

[baseline bum]

1778176548656312607

:pctoss

[Kevin]

As others have said Spurs need to pounce on star while Wemby is still cheap and not waste the last three years of his rookie deal. Its kinda like drafting a star QB in the NFL. You have to maximize during his rookie contract because once the QB gets paid its tougher building talent around him because of cap constraints and picking at the bottom of draft. This dynamic never really exists in the NBA because it usually takes 3-5 years for future MVP's to post this type of production. Joker's and Embiid's first 20/10 season didn't happen until year four.

[Pauleta14]

I agree. I suppose there's a small chance they say that to improve their negotiating strength. But this seems straightforward and in character. But curious if this indirectly came from VW. Spurs don't usually reveal much to reporters.

For all his strenght of character, poise IQ etc, Victor is still a 20 yo looking at Pop as the coaching GOAT, add Pop "CIA" skills, it's not hard to imagine they have Victor "under control" for at least a couple seasons

It sucks for us and fans in general, but it's a smart (selfish) business decision

PATFO chooses the easiest route... for them

[Spurs Homer]

If we are literally not looking to get any star player while Wemby is cheap, this is beyond stupid. There's zero reason not to do this. Bc there isn't a star player that will "handicap the future" like doom and gloom posters would have us believe.

I don't want Trae Young really, however if he costs $40 million a year and people are pissing all over his defense and we pay KJ AND Collins $40 million a year and they play piss poor defense too and suck at running an offense... how is that any better for the Spurs? What's the argument? Well Trae costs alot and he plays no defense. I'd rather pay KJ and Collins the same money to suck on defense and not be as good offensively.

Also the Spurs can't even "focus" on the draft only bc they don't even know if they have two FRPs or one. Also why is Champ starting? Why is he on the team? We aren't strapped for cash. We can easily sign a player. Tbh I wouldn't mind trading Tor pick (if it conveys this year) for Reid. He's young and a lot better than any person we would get this year with it.



:pop:“Zach stretches the floor and is a leader- we have the team we want!”

[exstatic]

As others have said Spurs need to pounce on star while Wemby is still cheap and not waste the last three years of his rookie deal. Its kinda like drafting a star QB in the NFL. You have to maximize during his rookie contract because once the QB gets paid its tougher building talent around him because of cap constraints and picking at the bottom of draft. This dynamic never really exists in the NBA because it usually takes 3-5 years for future MVP's to post this type of production. Joker's and Embiid's first 20/10 season didn't happen until year four.

Wemby will be cheap through his first 4 years.

Bad analogy, too, since the NFL is a hard capped league. You literally have to clear cap for your draft choices.

I’d rather wait to see what happens this summer in the playoffs. I don’t like Dallas’s chances against the LAC in the first round, and if they bust again, Luka may start the trade wheels in motion.

[KobesAchilles]

Well, for once, Keldon and Collins are already yours and won't cost you 3 or 4 unprotected first round picks.

Also, getting the wrong star player absolutely sets your team back years. Plenty of examples to go around: Westbrook in Houston, Harden in Philadelphia, Kyrie and Harden in Brooklyn, Beal in Phoenix, Murray in Atlanta, etc.

It's not as easy as "let's swap this two mediocre players for a flawed star since they are making the same money". When you make a commitment for a player of this caliber, you are making a multi-year commitement, if said player isn't the right choice, you are stuck with him for a while and getting out of that situation might be just as costly as getting into it in the first place.
No offense dude but that’s not a good response. We are dead last in the west and bringing back the same team. So how does it get worst than last place? Also I’m not talking about Young who I think would only fetch 2 FRPs anyways. But there are a shit ton of free agents to sign and instead we are bringing back the same exact team that got us last place. So no it can’t get worst for the Spurs bringing in somebody else

[exstatic]

No offense dude but that’s not a good response. We are dead last in the west and bringing back the same team. So how does it get worst than last place? Also I’m not talking about Young who I think would only fetch 2 FRPs anyways. But there are a shit ton of free agents to sign and instead we are bringing back the same exact team that got us last place. So no it can’t get worst for the Spurs bringing in somebody else

Spurs never said they were bringing back the same crew, nor was that even implied by Windy, just that they won’t go star fucking. I’d bet they do something like Houston did last summer, only not knuckleheads.

[Kevin]

Spurs never said they were bringing back the same crew, nor was that even implied by Windy, just that they won’t go star fucking. I’d bet they do something like Houston did last summer, only not knuckleheads.

More 20M role players. Yuck. We already have three of those guys in Keldon, Zollins and Dev and we suck.

I am convinced there are some people who would rather have three 20 dollar bills than one 100 dollar bill.

[exstatic]

More 20M role players. Yuck. We already have three of those guys in Keldon, Zollins and Dev and we suck.

I am convinced there are some people who would rather have three 20 dollar bills than one 100 dollar bill.

We need three things to improve next year. We need a caretaker PG to run the show until our drafted PG is ready iwho can distribute, play D, and shoot to space, but who doesn’t need a ton of shots. We need a forward who can rebound well and shoot the 3 ball. Doesn’t really need to do anything else. We need a true 3 and D wing. I’ll take those 3 $20M or less role players any day.

[Ariel]

More 20M role players. Yuck. We already have three of those guys in Keldon, Zollins and Dev and we suck.

I am convinced there are some people who would rather have three 20 dollar bills than one 100 dollar bill.
Zollins is paid 20M, but he isn't a 20M caliber role player. Keldon regressed, he's probably closer to neutral. But you can absolutely find contributors at that range,

[Kevin]

We need three things to improve next year. We need a caretaker PG to run the show until our drafted PG is ready iwho can distribute, play D, and shoot to space, but who doesn’t need a ton of shots. We need a forward who can rebound well and shoot the 3 ball. Doesn’t really need to do anything else. We need a true 3 and D wing. I’ll take those 3 $20M or less role players any day.

We already a caretaker PG in Tre Jones. Role players aren’t much good without stars.

[rascal]

Spurs never said they were bringing back the same crew, nor was that even implied by Windy, just that they won’t go star fucking. I’d bet they do something like Houston did last summer, only not knuckleheads.

Yes, it's implied the spurs are not bringing in any huge difference maker so bringing back the same core with most likely what they did last year, a couple of role player changes and what they get in this year's draft.

[Pauleta14]

We already a caretaker PG in Tre Jones. Role players aren’t much good without stars.

You can't so another season with Tre as the starting PG, he's too much of a liability

He should work on his back up PG skills, that's his seiling

[Pauleta14]

Spurs never said they were bringing back the same crew, nor was that even implied by Windy, just that they won’t go star fucking. I’d bet they do something like Houston did last summer, only not knuckleheads.

Pop implied it multiple times this season and the tweet confirms it

They want a high 25' pick and will soft tank again

[CGD]

Yes, it's implied the spurs are not bringing in any huge difference maker so bringing back the same core with most likely what they did last year, a couple of role player changes and what they get in this year's draft.

If the Spurs play like they did post ASG, they’re on track to win 31 games next year. With internal growth and a few vets maybe they push that closer to mid 30 wins?

Not an unreasonable outcome in Year 2 of Victor while keeping powder dry for 2025.

[Tyronn Lue]

If we are literally not looking to get any star player while Wemby is cheap, this is beyond stupid. There's zero reason not to do this. Bc there isn't a star player that will "handicap the future" like doom and gloom posters would have us believe.

I don't want Trae Young really, however if he costs $40 million a year and people are pissing all over his defense and we pay KJ AND Collins $40 million a year and they play piss poor defense too and suck at running an offense... how is that any better for the Spurs? What's the argument? Well Trae costs alot and he plays no defense. I'd rather pay KJ and Collins the same money to suck on defense and not be as good offensively.

Also the Spurs can't even "focus" on the draft only bc they don't even know if they have two FRPs or one. Also why is Champ starting? Why is he on the team? We aren't strapped for cash. We can easily sign a player. Tbh I wouldn't mind trading Tor pick (if it conveys this year) for Reid. He's young and a lot better than any person we would get this year with it.
You cannot have Trae playing two positions at the same time with 4 total guys on the floor. That's a big difference between Trae and two combined players.

[LeBowen]

If the Spurs play like they did post ASG, they’re on track to win 31 games next year. With internal growth and a few vets maybe they push that closer to mid 30 wins?

Not an unreasonable outcome in Year 2 of Victor while keeping powder dry for 2025.

That's what we thought last season and look at us now.
Less injuries (real or fake) than last season, added a rookie that's already all-NBA level and we'll end up with less wins.

Looking at the West, Blazers and Jazz are the only two teams that will most likely tank next season.
Everyone else will compete. Some teams will get worse due to their age, but it's unlikely anyone rolls over.

[CGD]

That's what we thought last season and look at us now.
Less injuries (real or fake) than last season, added a rookie that's already all-NBA level and we'll end up with less wins.

Looking at the West, Blazers and Jazz are the only two teams that will most likely tank next season.
Everyone else will compete. Some teams will get worse due to their age, but it's unlikely anyone rolls over.

Apples and Oranges. We underestimated how hard it would be to incorporate the uniqueness of VW, which is something Pop has noted and apparently also all of VW’s former coaches when they were trying to figure out how to add him on past teams. That wont be the case next year.

[exstatic]

We already a caretaker PG in Tre Jones. Role players aren’t much good without stars.

He doesn’t shoot well enough off the bounce, and he isn’t great at defense. He’s better suited to 3rd string.

[exstatic]

Yes, it's implied the spurs are not bringing in any huge difference maker so bringing back the same core with most likely what they did last year, a couple of role player changes and what they get in this year's draft.
Houston neither stood pat, nor brought in any stars this year. They brought in a couple of vets, and improved 17 games.

[exstatic]

Pop implied it multiple times this season and the tweet confirms it

They want a high 25' pick and will soft tank again

lol. A 19 game losing streak isn’t soft tanking.

[DAF86]

No offense dude but that’s not a good response. We are dead last in the west and bringing back the same team

PATFO aren't briging the same team, I'm sure of that. Besides the draft pick, they will add a couple of veterans through free agency.


Also I’m not talking about Young who I think would only fetch 2 FRPs anyways.

You literally mentioned Trae Young by name. :lol

You are crazy if you think the Hawks are settling for 2 picks after giving up 3 and a swap for Dejounte Murray, tbh.


But there are a shit ton of free agents to sign and instead we are bringing back the same exact team that got us last place. So no it can’t get worst for the Spurs bringing in somebody else

Like I said, I expect the Spurs to sign a couple of guys. Just don't expect a star.

[Pauleta14]

lol. A 19 game losing streak isn’t soft tanking.

That was obviously not part of the plan, they wanted to win every game, just with a very weak team

My guess is next season their target is prob around 30 wins

[baseline bum]

We need three things to improve next year. We need a caretaker PG to run the show until our drafted PG is ready iwho can distribute, play D, and shoot to space, but who doesn’t need a ton of shots. We need a forward who can rebound well and shoot the 3 ball. Doesn’t really need to do anything else. We need a true 3 and D wing. I’ll take those 3 $20M or less role players any day.

What drafted point guard? Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard, and Castle all have enormous red flags and not one of them is a good bet to become a high end player.

[objective]

Jalen Johnson and Okongwu are now both out for at least 3 weeks, they're probably toast in the play in

They'll likely be 10 in the lottery

[KobesAchilles]

PATFO aren't briging the same team, I'm sure of that. Besides the draft pick, they will add a couple of veterans through free agency.



You literally mentioned Trae Young by name. :lol

You are crazy if you think the Hawks are settling for 2 picks after giving up 3 and a swap for Dejounte Murray, tbh.



Like I said, I expect the Spurs to sign a couple of guys. Just don't expect a star.
Well it is the Trae Young thread. But I’ve said numerous times the players that I want. And I even stated that I don’t even really want Trae but if it’s a choice of having Trae Young on the team sans KJ and Collins for their 2 FRPs I would do it. Bc the one thing everyone is bitching about is his defense and Collins and KJ suck at that anyways. So it’s a stupid argument to makes he’s expensive. He plays no defense. But people are ok with paying KJ and Collins. And PATFO have hinted at us standing pat next year numerous times

Also the market for Young will be shit. Idgaf what Atlanta wants. 3 teams might really want him and he’s gonna go for a cheap price.
btw to Lue, I don’t want KJ or Collins playing any position for my team. And signing a back up big should cost me no more than 5-8 million.

[LeBowen]

Apples and Oranges. We underestimated how hard it would be to incorporate the uniqueness of VW, which is something Pop has noted and apparently also all of VW’s former coaches when they were trying to figure out how to add him on past teams. That wont be the case next year.

Obviously it took some tinkering, but it's not just about the win percentage.
Who are our other players that would feature on serious teams?

Devin is the only one that looks reliable and he'd be fourth option most likely, probably a sixth man.
Keldon looks like he's reached his ceiling, it's his fifth season and he's just a high energy, zero IQ bench spark and a traffic cone on defense.
Jeremy has potential, but his skillset is strange for modern NBA.

Others aren't even worth a mention if we're talking serious teams, noone makes the roster.

[tonight...you]

Well it is the Trae Young thread. But I’ve said numerous times the players that I want. And I even stated that I don’t even really want Trae but if it’s a choice of having Trae Young on the team sans KJ and Collins for their 2 FRPs I would do it. Bc the one thing everyone is bitching about is his defense and Collins and KJ suck at that anyways. So it’s a stupid argument to makes he’s expensive. He plays no defense. But people are ok with paying KJ and Collins. And PATFO have hinted at us standing pat next year numerous times

Also the market for Young will be shit. Idgaf what Atlanta wants. 3 teams might really want him and he’s gonna go for a cheap price.
btw to Lue, I don’t want KJ or Collins playing any position for my team. And signing a back up big should cost me no more than 5-8 million.
They'll probably trade Murray before they trade Young.

[mo7888]

They'll probably trade Murray before they trade Young.

Could be.... DJ might bring them a better return just looking at the teams who might want Trae..

[CGD]

Obviously it took some tinkering, but it's not just about the win percentage.
Who are our other players that would feature on serious teams?

Devin is the only one that looks reliable and he'd be fourth option most likely, probably a sixth man.
Keldon looks like he's reached his ceiling, it's his fifth season and he's just a high energy, zero IQ bench spark and a traffic cone on defense.
Jeremy has potential, but his skillset is strange for modern NBA.

Others aren't even worth a mention if we're talking serious teams, noone makes the roster.

Some of this will sort itself out naturally. For example, by the start of next season 5-6 dudes could be rolling off their deals or simply cut. The Spurs will also have to show their hand on Wesley and Malaki with their team options. Then the key decision points for next season will be on Keldon, Zach and Tre (who will be expiring). In any case expect Keldon and Zach will cycle off the team over the next two years (not sure about Tre) meaning that by Wemby's third year most of these guys wont be on the team anymore.

I do think they will build around Wemby, Vassell, and Sochan, while recognizing that neither of the latter are true Number 2s. That's when stuff gets interesting: do they look for that via the draft or do they use Vassell/Sochan in trades to get that guy.

[exstatic]

Some of this will sort itself out naturally. For example, by the start of next season 5-6 dudes could be rolling off their deals or simply cut. The Spurs will also have to show their hand on Wesley and Malaki with their team options. Then the key decision points for next season will be on Keldon, Zach and Tre (who will be expiring). In any case expect Keldon and Zach will cycle off the team over the next two years (not sure about Tre) meaning that by Wemby's third year most of these guys wont be on the team anymore.

I do think they will build around Wemby, Vassell, and Sochan, while recognizing that neither of the latter are true Number 2s. That's when stuff gets interesting: do they look for that via the draft or do they use Vassell/Sochan in trades to get that guy.

The options for year 3 have already been picked up. This fall they have to decide on year 4 options for Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. The first two years are stone guaranteed, but the options are one year offset. After year 1, they have to decide on year 3, and after year 2, to decide on year 4.

[Raven]

Wemby will be cheap through his first 4 years.

Bad analogy, too, since the NFL is a hard capped league. You literally have to clear cap for your draft choices.

I’d rather wait to see what happens this summer in the playoffs. I don’t like Dallas’s chances against the LAC in the first round, and if they bust again, Luka may start the trade wheels in motion.

dallas looks good this year, but yeah i agree we should be all in on luka, as the pair is simply too much

[ambchang]

The Spurs are trying to avoid the trap that got Houston, the Clippers, Suns, Nets, Philly, etc ... players with multiple stars built on fundamentally flawed teams.

I don't necessarily agree that the Spurs only require Wemby and a bunch of role players, but basing Wemby on the Nuggets model isn't too bad. We have a player who can be our #3, or at worst our #4, and a bunch of role players who can be very valuable in how they contribute, finding a #2 isn't some impossible thing to do like people make it out to be. Trae is the classic #1 on a bad team player, I am not sure if he could be a #2 on a championship team, but it doesn't seem likely. If we were to go for a strong vet, I would much rather get someone like Paul George, but that is a pipedream.

[BatManu20]

1779894508257202504

[poopbox]

The Spurs are trying to avoid the trap that got Houston, the Clippers, Suns, Nets, Philly, etc ... players with multiple stars built on fundamentally flawed teams.

I don't necessarily agree that the Spurs only require Wemby and a bunch of role players, but basing Wemby on the Nuggets model isn't too bad. We have a player who can be our #3, or at worst our #4, and a bunch of role players who can be very valuable in how they contribute, finding a #2 isn't some impossible thing to do like people make it out to be. Trae is the classic #1 on a bad team player, I am not sure if he could be a #2 on a championship team, but it doesn't seem likely. If we were to go for a strong vet, I would much rather get someone like Paul George, but that is a pipedream.

Spurs trying to avoid the trap that got perennial playoff teams to the playoffs :rollin

[TimmyBuckets]

If we don't get Trae, then he goes to Lakers imo.

[Kevin]

If we don't get Trae, then he goes to Lakers imo.

He'll go to the Spurs or ATL will trade DJM instead. No other outcome makes sense for the Hawks for reasons that have been covered many times.

[scott]

1779857746239594983

While local Spurs media is generally bad at their job, I believe Finger has probably had some sort of conversation with Spurs brass that leads him to this conclusion.

Note: When I say bad at their job, this is part of it. They horde inside information and then let is slip in ways like this in order to prop themselves up as gurus. If they have sharable information, they should share it. If they can't share it, they should keep their mouths shut about it.

[Kevin]

If we don't get Trae, then he goes to Lakers imo.

He'll go to the Spurs or ATL will trade DJM instead. No other outcome makes sense for the Hawks for reasons that have been covered many times.

[CGD]

The options for year 3 have already been picked up. This fall they have to decide on year 4 options for Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. The first two years are stone guaranteed, but the options are one year offset. After year 1, they have to decide on year 3, and after year 2, to decide on year 4.

I get that, I’m talking about year 4. Basically if they pass on that it means they gone the year after.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I get that, I’m talking about year 4. Basically if they pass on that it means they gone the year after.

If they don’t pick up year 4 option they likely cut them and just eat the year 3 salary.

[onechance87]

trae should of sat out lol...

[scott]

I presume we are rooting for a CHI blowout here to 1) encourage ATL to blow it up as much as possible this offseason and 2) encourage CHI to not blow it up and go into rebuilding mode?

[mo7888]

I presume we are rooting for a CHI blowout here to 1) encourage ATL to blow it up as much as possible this offseason and 2) encourage CHI to not blow it up and go into rebuilding mode?

Winner!

[Leetonidas]

I presume we are rooting for a CHI blowout here to 1) encourage ATL to blow it up as much as possible this offseason and 2) encourage CHI to not blow it up and go into rebuilding mode?
Yup. DJ having a good game and Trae laying an egg is also preferable

[poopbox]

Trae doing his part to get to San Antonio :cry

[Gandalf]

Yup. DJ having a good game and Trae laying an egg is also preferable

Seems to be happening so far; why is this preferable? Trying to decrease Young’s trade value? I wouldn’t want him anyway.

[rankingtear]

Watch Trae defense.

[Kawhi Duncan]

I've been saying for a long time ppl who want Trae Young here either don't watch him play, or think real basketball works like 2k... He doesn't grow the game of his teammates... He is an inefficient scorer and a turnover machine with a bad assist/turnover ratio for a PG... Especially one that always has the ball in his hands... Dude will stifle Wemby's growth by making him a spot up shooter and lob catcher

[rankingtear]

Watch his help defense on how CHI always attacks his side of the floor.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I've been saying for a long time ppl who want Trae Young here either don't watch him play, or think real basketball works like 2k... He doesn't grow the game of his teammates... He is an inefficient scorer and a turnover machine with a bad assist/turnover ratio for a PG... Especially one that always has the ball in his hands... Dude will stifle Wemby's growth by making him a spot up shooter and lob catcher


But he throws such nice alleyoops! /Spursfans

This guy is a poor man's DeRozan. Don't be dumb, Bwrong.

[spurraider21]

Trae Forbes

[spurraider21]

Exstatic after the spurs trade for young:

i bet cia pop told Trae to suck in the play in to lower his trade value

[onechance87]

i dont mind getting young....But dont think hes worth supermax money.Think thats what hawks aint trying to do either.

[spurraider21]

:lol someone on hawks Reddit was like “ugh this game is making me okay with moving young if we get a PG13 to the clippers return”

[MultiTroll]

I like his political views.

[SPURt]

:lol someone on hawks Reddit was like “ugh this game is making me okay with moving young if we get a PG13 to the clippers return”
How do they feel about Julian Champagnie?

Young is not looking great tonight. Not sure if even Wemby can save him defensively. Yikes.

[NASpurs]

No more midget guards. I was happy when we ended that era.

[Spurs Homer]

People scoffing at trae young “only good at lobs” …

when every garbage player on the spurs- which is everyone not named wemby
is unable to make a lob pass….

and

having the tallest guy in the league by far

1) young = best lob passer in nba

2) wemby = longest reach by far of any nba player


yet…”no defense” “liability” is the excuse even tho we have the worst garbage defensive players in the nba already
but trae youngs defense is the concern

geniuses!

[onechance87]

People scoffing at trae young “only good at lobs” …

when every garbage player on the spurs- which is everyone not named wemby
is unable to make a lob pass….

and

having the tallest guy in the league by far

1) young = best lob passer in nba

2) wemby = longest reach by far of any nba player


yet…”no defense” “liability” is the excuse even tho we have the worst garbage defensive players in the nba already
but trae youngs defense is the concern

geniuses!

also paying him supermax is concerning.

[Ariel]

Today Trae looked like a Hawks' guard version of Zach Collins, lately every deciding game/series he's in, he's a sieve on defense, a turnover machine, and inefficient as a scorer. But oh, he can throw lobs at Wemby :rolleyes

[GAustex]

Flash but no substance
Not a winner

[baseline bum]

:lol someone on hawks Reddit was like “ugh this game is making me okay with moving young if we get a PG13 to the clippers return”

:lol

[heyheymymy]

2025: $43,031,940

2026: $45,999,660

2027: $48,967,380



4-12
3-8
11-13
1
1
2
10
0
0
6
2
-27
22

[heyheymymy]

https://cdnmetv.metv.com/z50xp-1619719725-16226-list_items-no.jpg

[scott]

Yeah, I'm out on this guy unless it's for a single Atlanta pick back to them, which they won't do.

DJM on the other hand... we can talk.

[onechance87]

2025: $43,031,940

2026: $45,999,660

2027: $48,967,380



4-12
3-8
11-13
1
1
2
10
0
0
6
2
-27
22




think i rather offer iq a 4 year 100 million contract....I also said we should trade a first rounder for colby white earlier in the
season and muthfckers said he was not worth it lol.

[JPB]

To Trae's defense. He's coming back from a weeks long injury..can't get tour rythm back just like that. But yeah, issue with him is more salary nd what he would cost than anything. He'would make the team better no matter what.

Can't say the guy sucks but then get excited over all the Branhams, Grahams, Wesleys or Mamus of the world.

[Ariel]

2025: $43,031,940

2026: $45,999,660

2027: $48,967,380



4-12
3-8
11-13
1
1
2
10
0
0
6
2
-27
22



With one shameless three coming after the Bulls stopped playing and gave up the possession. So more like 3/11 and minus 30

[Ariel]

think i rather offer iq a 4 year 100 million contract....I also said we should trade a first rounder for colby white earlier in the
season and muthfckers said he was not worth it lol.
Pass on Quickley too, followed him more closely on Toronto and he's not the guy you want with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of an important game, he's not worth the 25M+ he was supposedly asking for.

[MultiTroll]

No more midget guards. I was happy when we ended that era.
When was that?

Tre Jones.

[cutewizard]

if we get Topic, do we need Young>??

[onechance87]

Pass on Quickley too, followed him more closely on Toronto and he's not the guy you want with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of an important game, he's not worth the 25M+ he was supposedly asking for.

we cant keep waiting years to find the perfect pg to tag along with wemby.Hes a pg who play d and can hit outside shots and is
a decent passer.We gonna have to overpay to have a shot at stealng him from raptors.But hey we wont lose draft capital as well
trading for a good pg as well.

[Ariel]

we cant keep waiting years to find the perfect pg to tag along with wemby.Hes a pg who play d and can hit outside shots and is
a decent passer.We gonna have to overpay to have a shot at stealng him from raptors.But hey we wont lose draft capital as well
trading for a good pg as well.
Quickley isn't really a PG, and you'll waste MORE years if you overpay for a guy you later have to give up assets to get rid off. Dillingham, Sheppard are better and cheaper. I'd also rather pick up Tyus Jones in free agency, trade for Brogdon or Simons from Portland, etc.

[NASpurs]

When was that?

Tre Jones.

White, Murray, Primo

We all know Jones is just keeping the seat warm and is a placeholder.

[JPB]

2025: $43,031,940

2026: $45,999,660

2027: $48,967,380



4-12
3-8
11-13
1
1
2
10
0
0
6
2
-27
22


22 & 10, 3/8 on 3, 13 FTs would be perfect for a spurs PG next to Wemby. That's litterally all spurs lack, a PG who can create for others and dish, shoot the 3 and draw fouls, scoring his 20s then letting Vic be the main guy and offensive weapon.

Now defense is an issue but you have the best defenser in the game behind you, then add a couple 3&D guys around. So yeah, its about the price and salary more than anything if you ask me. Trae and one ore or two vets makes that team much better from day one, so the question is if its worth the price and if you can do better down the road. Not sure Luka is necesarily knocking that door anytime soon. And there always will be one desperate contender whose windows is closing you can offload Trae to if that doesn't work out. Harden went from Hou to NJ to the Sixers to the Clippers in 5 years...

Cos Im not sure I want to watch spurs just add and try to develop a bunch of other rookies the next 4 years so Wemby
can contend (or not) in year 7..., specially if you consider the current youngsters wont do it... This is 2024, you gotta be proactive because other teams are. Thunder just didnt luck into Chet, he has Shai to play with in his early years already gaining experience at the highest level... Give that chance to Victor now, he needs and deserves it, but can do it all by himself.

[heyheymymy]

I like Trae Young and think he's a pretty exciting player and seems like a cool personality. Not sure I like him for the Spurs and not interested in deals for him. I admit I'm intrigued by the star power and figure eventually the path to a ring might have to include paying up for that star that puts you over the top but I feel like Young has shortcomings and for the price tag it's intolerable. I also get how Young type players don't just come along often and this might be the best chance to recruit name brand star power. It may be a risk to let this pass.

Perhaps if Wemby is good enough to do anything with in the first place then Wemby is good enough to attract some serious talent and the right fit will materialize and Spurs will get their two-superstar system eventually anyway.

But my main problem is the price tag. I wouldn't pay a Michael Jordan super clone 48.9 that's absurd. That's like a third the whole team salary.

[heyheymymy]

22 & 10, 3/8 on 3, 13 FTs would be perfect for a spurs PG next to Wemby. That's litterally all spurs lack, a PG who can create for others and dish, shoot the 3 and draw fouls, scoring his 20s then letting Vic be the main guy and offensive weapon.

Now defense is an issue but you have the best defenser in the game behind you, then add a couple 3&D guys around. So yeah, its about the price and salary more than anything if you ask me. Trae and one ore or two vets makes that team much better from day one, so the question is if its worth the price and if you can do better down the road. Not sure Luka is necesarily knocking that door anytime soon. And there always will be one desperate contender whose windows is closing you can offload Trae to if that doesn't work out. Harden went from Hou to NJ to the Sixers to the Clippers in 5 years...

Cos Im not sure I want to watch spurs just add and try to develop a bunch of other rookies the next 4 years so W
t
can contend (or not) in year 7..., specially if you consider the current youngsters wont do it... This is 2024, you gotta be proactive because other teams are. Thunder just didnt luck into Chet, he has Shai to play with in early year, already gaining experience at the highest level... Give that chance to Victor now he needs and deserve it, but can do it all by himself.

You make a pretty decent proposal there and believe me the thought of Young to SA is enticing. I could see it and wouldn't be resistant but do prefer to wait and see on this ultimately.

[Maddog]

Watch Trae defense.

That request should come with some sort of warning

[Mr. Body]

Trae would be a massive mistake. Would instantly lower the ceiling of this team. Atlanta are a mess and won't be able to get rid of him.

[Fireball]

Felt bad for Murray after watching the play-in game ... Trae Young is so not a Pop player, I don't know why this ever was a thing

[vander]

man, Atlanta kinda fucked, I almost feel bad the Spurs have their next 3 FRP after this year.

[CGD]

Trae would be a massive mistake. Would instantly lower the ceiling of this team. Atlanta are a mess and won't be able to get rid of him.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m hoping Mike Finger’s reporting that that Spurs will not be the team to match ATL’s price is accurate.

I keep finding it amusing that people are fixating on Trae almost exclusively for his ability to make Wemby the ultimate lob pass threat. Just silly.

[JPB]

Not even arguing about the pertinence of adding Trae but seeing some spurs fans absolutely not wanting himcos it would 'hurt' the team but trusting the process of developing Wesleys, Branhams or Scchans or wanting Grahams and Mamus to start...

You'd swear some havent watch the team these past two years and realize how awful spurs have been and this roster is, litterally bottom of the league, with nobody yet you'd like tl start on a contender. .Reality check, that team has been badly sucking for 2 years and all they have today is Wemb, a guy who is serious about starting to wiin now.

Picks? Sure but all you have with picks is hope and uncertainty,. Thats not a guarantee in any way. Many teams have had picks these past years and are still nowhere. If you dont pick well, which spurs haven't lately, you're condemned to find the 'right' deal with whoever would actually be interested in yoir picks, with little assets besides to bulk up the trade (lets not overvalue our current players in other GMs eyes). And we're seing what developing picks in a losing culture is giving, players with low BBIQ who don't know how to win. Ask Detroit or Philly about piling up picks.

The 'yeah we suck now but we have picks!!!'' Mantra and proscratination can be tricky and dangerous. Thats betting on a necessarily better furure. But the NBA doesnt revolve around the spurs and other teams are working too. Should have OKC reject the Shai trade to trust the process and build through the draft for 4 years? They pulled the trigger and were right. Now Chet is contending in his rookie year. It's never too early to be competitive, TP was in his first year too. You dont absolutely have to be patient but simply smart. Wating doesnt guarantee you anything.

Specially, and last but not least, spurs would be badly inspired, but I'm sure they re starting to realize that, to consider they have Wemby locked for his first 7 years in the NBA The guy Is really different on that aspects of things too, and is serious about being competitive as soon as next year. Vic will make hundreds of millions in his career, if not billions, out of his contracts and endorsments, its not losing a 'few' dozens millions on the table that would keep him here after his rookie deal... spurs are under pressure to give Wemby a winning team soon, the countdown has already started for them.

[KobesAchilles]

Trae would be a massive mistake. Would instantly lower the ceiling of this team. Atlanta are a mess and won't be able to get rid of him.
It lowers the ceiling of a team that finished last place in the West. Oh ok. I guess next year Trae can lead us to worse than 15th place in the West. I bet you if Trae was on our team we would not finish any worse than we did this year in our seeding.

**edit** we ended up finishing 14th. Either way my point stands

[SpursBills]

So let’s see - Trae young shit the bed which means either his asking price goes down and the spurs can get him for less, or any other team that gets him pays less and the hawks get less back making their future picks better for the spurs. Coby white shows he’s potentially a guy to build around making the odds of a bulls rebuild lower and allowing the bulls pick to convey in the next 3 years. Great night all around.

[JPB]

So let’s see - Trae young shit the bed which means either his asking price goes down and the spurs can get him for less, or any other team that gets him pays less and the hawks get less back making their future picks better for the spurs. Coby white shows he’s potentially a guy to build around making the odds of a bulls rebuild lower and allowing the bulls pick to convey in the next 3 years. Great night all around.

Again, not defending specially Trae, but let's try to stay fair and objective. That was one game out of injury and his TS% on that game is not that bad. Embiid scored 23 on 6/17 shooting last night, in a 1 point win thanks to Batum going bonanza on 3 (and blocking a potential game winner). Not sure we can say Embiid shat the bed and is a wortless player spurs wouldnt trade for...

But we can argue about Trae's value overall.

[SpursBills]

Again, not defending specially Trae, but let's try to stay fair and objective. That was one game out of injury and his TS% on that game is not that bad. Embiid scored 23 on 6/17 shooting last night, in a 1 point win thanks to Batum going bonanza on 3 (and blocking a potential game winner). Not sure we can say Embiid shat the bed and is a wortless player spurs wouldnt trade for...

But we can argue about Trae's value overall.

I’m not commenting on his worth as a player, I think he’s excellent. More on the fact that he had a poor performance and poor performances in high leverage situations can drive down a player’s trade value, which benefits the spurs regardless of whether or not they want him or not.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Not even arguing about the pertinence of adding Trae but seeing some spurs fans absolutely not wanting himcos it would 'hurt' the team but trusting the process of developing Wesleys, Branhams or Scchans or wanting Grahams and Mamus to start...

You'd swear some havent watch the team these past two years and realize how awful spurs have been and this roster is, litterally bottom of the league, with nobody yet you'd like tl start on a contender. .Reality check, that team has been badly sucking for 2 years and all they have today is Wemb, a guy who is serious about starting to wiin now.

Picks? Sure but all you have with picks is hope and uncertainty,. Thats not a guarantee in any way. Many teams have had picks these past years and are still nowhere. If you dont pick well, which spurs haven't lately, you're condemned to find the 'right' deal with whoever would actually be interested in yoir picks, with little assets besides to bulk up the trade (lets not overvalue our current players in other GMs eyes). And we're seing what developing picks in a losing culture is giving, players with low BBIQ who don't know how to win. Ask Detroit or Philly about piling up picks.

The 'yeah we suck now but we have picks!!!'' Mantra and proscratination can be tricky and dangerous. Thats betting on a necessarily better furure. But the NBA doesnt revolve around the spurs and other teams are working too. Should have OKC reject the Shai trade to trust the process and build through the draft for 4 years? They pulled the trigger and were right. Now Chet is contending in his rookie year. It's never too early to be competitive, TP was in his first year too. You dont absolutely have to be patient but simply smart. Wating doesnt guarantee you anything.

Specially, and last but not least, spurs would be badly inspired, but I'm sure they re starting to realize that, to consider they have Wemby locked for his first 7 years in the NBA The guy Is really different on that aspects of things too, and is serious about being competitive as soon as next year. Vic will make hundreds of millions in his career, if not billions, out of his contracts and endorsments, its not losing a 'few' dozens millions on the table that would keep him here after his rookie deal... spurs are under pressure to give Wemby a winning team soon, the countdown has already started for them.

Well, it's not like the only choice is trade for Trae RIGHT NOW or hope Julian Champagnie magically morphs into Scottie Pippen and Blake Wesley becomes the next Chris Paul. They can improve the roster without gutting their future draft capital and cap space.

But I've despised the notion of Trae Young on the Spurs ever since this idiotic report came out. He's a coach killing shitty teammate and atrocious defender who plays losing basketball. The Hawks are a .500 team with him. They are a .500 team without him. Not that I required one more iota of evidence about what exactly Trae Young is, but when your "superstar" logs a steaming minus 27 in a win or go home game that you lose by 15 while giving up 131 in regulation to one of the most vanilla offenses in the league... you may want to seriously rethink what adding this guy to the Spurs would really look like.

[baseline bum]

White, Murray, Primo

We all know Jones is just keeping the seat warm and is a placeholder.

Uh no, Primo is what you get when you get when you draft for size only for your PG.

[baseline bum]

It lowers the ceiling of a team that finished last place in the West. Oh ok. I guess next year Trae can lead us to worse than 15th place in the West. I bet you if Trae was on our team we would not finish any worse than we did this year in our seeding.

**edit** we ended up finishing 14th. Either way my point stands

:lol Likes Collins and Branham, thinks Trae Young is a scrub

[Mr. Body]

It lowers the ceiling of a team that finished last place in the West. Oh ok. I guess next year Trae can lead us to worse than 15th place in the West. I bet you if Trae was on our team we would not finish any worse than we did this year in our seeding.

**edit** we ended up finishing 14th. Either way my point stands

Yeah, pretty much. If you want to do your level best to ensure Wembanyama can barely get the team above the play-in level for the next five years, you trade for Trae Young.

- You throw away that could be used for good players
- He'll eat up a lot of the salary cap
- He's shit on a shingle when it counts, like last night

I'll add a fourth one:

- If you make him your 'big trade,' you're not getting another swing of the bat

I get it, you're impatient and want to win now. You don't think improvement is being made. You don't listen when the team says they don't want to skip steps. You don't even listen to Wemby when he says the same thing. You're deeply impulsive and make really bad decisions in life, that sort of thing, so why not be extremely rash and not think straight in fandom, too?

[Joseph Kony]

:lmao you thought this team was winning 40 games, shut the fuck up loser. your opinion is less than worthless

[Mr. Body]

:lol Likes Collins and Branham, thinks Trae Young is a scrub

Trae Young will cost you $40-60 million a year plus current players plus draft picks.

Collins and Branham cost you nothing, because they are already on the team. Would I trade to acquire Collins or Branham? No. But they're what we have an cost nothing.

Do you get the difference? I get that this is sort of a second order thinking. On this board, it's more single order of thinking, just like cows eating grass. But look at what I just wrote and think about it a little. It'll sink in.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah, pretty much. If you want to do your level best to ensure Wembanyama can barely get the team above the play-in level for the next five years, you trade for Trae Young.

- You throw away that could be used for good players
- He'll eat up a lot of the salary cap
- He's shit on a shingle when it counts, like last night

I'll add a fourth one:

- If you make him your 'big trade,' you're not getting another swing of the bat

I get it, you're impatient and want to win now. You don't think improvement is being made. You don't listen when the team says they don't want to skip steps. You don't even listen to Wemby when he says the same thing. You're deeply impulsive and make really bad decisions in life, that sort of thing, so why not be extremely rash and not think straight in fandom, too?
I mean no offense but let us equate Spurs and business. Imagine you take over a company and you have two managers. One (let's name him Hop) used to be an amazing worker and during the heyday of the company he was front and center. But in the past 5-6 years your manager has lost his touch and now is just incompetent at his job and has no control of his employees. The other manager (Ryan Wrong) is in charge of hiring said employees.

Speaking of employees, all of them show up late, aren't in dress code, and never seem to learn or complete basic tasks given to them. They are nice people overall, they are young and it's their first real job. But they have no professionalism and they aren't dependable at all. All except one guy who is your star employee. He always exceeds his goals that you've placed on him. He always comes prepared, you can give him additional responsibilities and he goes even beyond your high expectations for him. The company overall is doing bad and losing money, but they have this one guy who could really grow and expand the business.

Now you have taken over the company, you have set goals and expectations, and trained your team for years, and even after this only one employee is meeting their goals and the rest are still late, still immature, still can't learn/complete basic tasks, and your company is at an all time worst it has ever been... Only Mr. Body would say that getting rid of these bad employees is considered rash and impulsive.

I'll add a 5th one. Spurs make no moves. Sochan plays like he is playing and receives a deal like KJ got. Now we have our cap tied up in a buncha role players in Collins, KJ, Vassell, and Sochan who will never lead us beyond the play-in and probably won't even get us to the play-in. Now in 5 years Wemby can't even reach play-in level and we have our cap eaten away by a buncha mediocre players for the same exact time frame you are spouting.

Trae Young would cost us the exact same as KJ and Collins. He gives us their exact same offensive output points wise, while unlike those two he can actually run an offense. And similar to those two he sucks at defense so it's a wash on that front. He would probably cost us our own 26 pick and either the 25 or 27 ATL pick. That's all his market is for him. It's not even that big of a trade. And he isn't the star player, Wemby is the star player and as long as he shows up, Trae will follow. Btw the dude did lead his team to the ECFs. KJ and Collins led their teams to what exactly?

[BatManu20]

So let’s see - Trae young shit the bed which means either his asking price goes down and the spurs can get him for less, or any other team that gets him pays less and the hawks get less back making their future picks better for the spurs. Coby white shows he’s potentially a guy to build around making the odds of a bulls rebuild lower and allowing the bulls pick to convey in the next 3 years. Great night all around.

They’re not trading Trae unless it’s for a haul. They’re not going to just dump their franchise player just because he had a bad showing in the Play-In. Either the Spurs or Lakers or whoever will make a legitimate offer for him this Summer and they’ll accept, or the Hawks will hold onto him and trade him at a later date. He still has 3 years left on his deal so it’s not like they have to move him right this second, though his value is unlikely to improve much over the next 12 months.