Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[Chinook]

i remember him saying three years, at least, to compete for a title in his interview with TP.

https://youtu.be/NbOrb6DloLk?t=406

It'll be three years or five, if not more. The actual difference between Wemby and a guy like Giannis or Jokic is massive right now, even if the stats don't show it. Wemby's window hasn't opened yet, and his supporting cast is not the reason why. That's an internal thing based on his skill, temperament and experience. That process cannot be skipped or even meaningfully accelerated. Pop knows this. Manu knows this. Even Charles Barkley knows this.

The Spurs should absolutely not approach this off-season with a mandate to build a winning team. That's how you become one of those teams that throws a ton of assets and flexibility down the drain. The mandate should be to put the pieces around Wemby for him to continue his development. That should mean the Spurs get better players, and the hope is that it results in a fair bit more wins. But barring something drastic, the team is on Wemby's timeline, and that timeline may not be as far along as Victor himself wants it to be.

That's why Trae Young seems like a particularly bad trade target. He's neither young enough to grow slowly with Victor nor experienced enough to guide him. He's a relatively immature star making a ton of money and who has enough accolades where he seems to not want to adapt his way of playing at all. If their ages were reversed, and Victor were the youngish superstar in his early prime and Young were the rookie fire cracker with unreal production, the match would be amazing. It would be Duncan/Parker 2.0. If you imagine the Spurs had they drafted Tony in 1997 and Duncan (somehow) in 2001, you can get a sense of why that's unideal.

Issue is, the league is really hurting from the 2012-2015 drafts being mostly awful. There's a lack of 30ish stars and the couple who are there like Davis, Embiid and Giannis aren't moveable and wouldn't be good fits anyway. You end up with mid-30s guys having to fill those roles, but a lot of those players have already fallen apart like Kemba, Cousins and Wall. We're at the point where the best pipedream is Paul George deciding he wants to play with Wemby and Devin for a couple of years and is willing to take less to do so. I'm starting to wonder if the Spurs are going to end up being the team that gives Harden a bag. It's basically the same thing as Young but without the long-term commitment and with the downside of having Harden in a Spurs uniform.

[mo7888]

It'll be three years or five, if not more. The actual difference between Wemby and a guy like Giannis or Jokic is massive right now, even if the stats don't show it. Wemby's window hasn't opened yet, and his supporting cast is not the reason why. That's an internal thing based on his skill, temperament and experience. That process cannot be skipped or even meaningfully accelerated. Pop knows this. Manu knows this. Even Charles Barkley knows this.

The Spurs should absolutely not approach this off-season with a mandate to build a winning team. That's how you become one of those teams that throws a ton of assets and flexibility down the drain. The mandate should be to put the pieces around Wemby for him to continue his development. That should mean the Spurs get better players, and the hope is that it results in a fair bit more wins. But barring something drastic, the team is on Wemby's timeline, and that timeline may not be as far along as Victor himself wants it to be.

That's why Trae Young seems like a particularly bad trade target. He's neither young enough to grow slowly with Victor nor experienced enough to guide him. He's a relatively immature star making a ton of money and who has enough accolades where he seems to not want to adapt his way of playing at all. If their ages were reversed, and Victor were the youngish superstar in his early prime and Young were the rookie fire cracker with unreal production, the match would be amazing. It would be Duncan/Parker 2.0. If you imagine the Spurs had they drafted Tony in 1997 and Duncan (somehow) in 2001, you can get a sense of why that's unideal.

Issue is, the league is really hurting from the 2012-2015 drafts being mostly awful. There's a lack of 30ish stars and the couple who are there like Davis, Embiid and Giannis aren't moveable and wouldn't be good fits anyway. You end up with mid-30s guys having to fill those roles, but a lot of those players have already fallen apart like Kemba, Cousins and Wall. We're at the point where the best pipedream is Paul George deciding he wants to play with Wemby and Devin for a couple of years and is willing to take less to do so. I'm starting to wonder if the Spurs are going to end up being the team that gives Harden a bag. It's basically the same thing as Young but without the long-term commitment and with the downside of having Harden in a Spurs uniform.

Are we in a position to give Harden a bag cap-wise?

[Chinook]

Are we in a position to give Harden a bag cap-wise?

Not without making moves. But if they are willing to make those moves, they probably could without much difficulty.

[scott]

Spurs need not build a team able to compete for a championship next year - they do need to go through the steps of becoming a play-in/low-seed playoff team, then a high-seed and then if there are still glaring deficiencies you can go from there.

At the same token, it is foolish to think you can just keep tanking and then suddenly flip a switch to be a championship contender overnight, you still need those steps mentioned above. IMO, next season is the one we need to be a play-in/low-seed playoff team. This aligns well with the timeline of our incoming picks as well. The following season, they’ll be second year players ready to make a bigger contribution to a team making the leap from play-in to high-seed (much like someone like Jalen Williams is doing on OKC). Hopefully you also see a big 3rd year jump from those guys and they push you even further in Year 4 of the Wemby Experience. If you’re a play-in team next year, you’ll also have one more (likely late) lottery pick in the development pipeline as well (plus whatever other picks may convey if not traded away).

We also no longer need to see what Wemby can do on a bad team. Seen enough. We need to see what Wemby can do, and Wemby needs to go through, being on a competitive (play-in) team. Can he deliver high pressure performance not just once and awhile in the few close games we’ve played, but on a consistent basis? I’ve no doubt he can, but he needs to go through that.

We also need to see what Vassell can do on a competitive team, and soon. He’s had a long enough career on bad teams, we need to turn that around for his sake as much as Wemby’s otherwise there are development-stunting elements that can occur.

Whether or not Trae is the right move, all debatable, like flavors of ice cream. But it seems like we finally have a critical mass of though that the right move is to push forward towards building a team that can take the next step (play-in), rather than the previous preference of some, which was to just continue tanking.

[baseline bum]

Minnesota has huge luxury tax issues next season with Ant's extension kicking in. They are basically forced to either move Reid or McDaniels.

Ant's extension is pretty tame, $35 million next season, and they're below the second apron for 24-25 if they let Slowmo walk. First apron penalties are pretty light so that most contenders will probably be operating above it but below the second apron. 25-26 will be under a new TV/streaming deal so should bump the cap significantly so that Ant's extension is going to look absolute bargain basement. Hell it's already bargain basement under the current CBA at $35 million given his market value is probably more like $60 million, but it's really going to look like a steal in 25-26 through 27-28. It'll probably give them enough wiggle room to extend Reid and Gobert without having to salary dump Towns in 25-26 unless Gobert thinks he's a 35% max player at 33.

[Robz4000]

It'll be three years or five, if not more. The actual difference between Wemby and a guy like Giannis or Jokic is massive right now, even if the stats don't show it. Wemby's window hasn't opened yet, and his supporting cast is not the reason why. That's an internal thing based on his skill, temperament and experience. That process cannot be skipped or even meaningfully accelerated. Pop knows this. Manu knows this. Even Charles Barkley knows this.

The Spurs should absolutely not approach this off-season with a mandate to build a winning team. That's how you become one of those teams that throws a ton of assets and flexibility down the drain. The mandate should be to put the pieces around Wemby for him to continue his development. That should mean the Spurs get better players, and the hope is that it results in a fair bit more wins. But barring something drastic, the team is on Wemby's timeline, and that timeline may not be as far along as Victor himself wants it to be.

That's why Trae Young seems like a particularly bad trade target. He's neither young enough to grow slowly with Victor nor experienced enough to guide him. He's a relatively immature star making a ton of money and who has enough accolades where he seems to not want to adapt his way of playing at all. If their ages were reversed, and Victor were the youngish superstar in his early prime and Young were the rookie fire cracker with unreal production, the match would be amazing. It would be Duncan/Parker 2.0. If you imagine the Spurs had they drafted Tony in 1997 and Duncan (somehow) in 2001, you can get a sense of why that's unideal.

Issue is, the league is really hurting from the 2012-2015 drafts being mostly awful. There's a lack of 30ish stars and the couple who are there like Davis, Embiid and Giannis aren't moveable and wouldn't be good fits anyway. You end up with mid-30s guys having to fill those roles, but a lot of those players have already fallen apart like Kemba, Cousins and Wall. We're at the point where the best pipedream is Paul George deciding he wants to play with Wemby and Devin for a couple of years and is willing to take less to do so. I'm starting to wonder if the Spurs are going to end up being the team that gives Harden a bag. It's basically the same thing as Young but without the long-term commitment and with the downside of having Harden in a Spurs uniform.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/8vUEXZA2me7vnuUvrs/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952kcrcudmj7a6p48gj5gd1m2l16yr 9ql0ns0yybvau&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

[MultiTroll]

Are we in a position to give Harden a bag cap-wise?
Just got thru watching him help throw the game in a 4th qtr 21 point lead by Clippers vs Lakers.
2 of his turnovers he didn't make the slightest attemtp to make them look like accidents.

Don't trust him at all.
He's long been compromised.
Locker room and overall team cancer big time.

No.

[objective]

Ant's extension is pretty tame, $35 million next season, and they're below the second apron for 24-25 if they let Slowmo walk. First apron penalties are pretty light so that most contenders will probably be operating above it but below the second apron. 25-26 will be under a new TV/streaming deal so should bump the cap significantly so that Ant's extension is going to look absolute bargain basement. Hell it's already bargain basement under the current CBA at $35 million given his market value is probably more like $60 million, but it's really going to look like a steal in 25-26 through 27-28. It'll probably give them enough wiggle room to extend Reid and Gobert without having to salary dump Towns in 25-26 unless Gobert thinks he's a 35% max player at 33.

If Anthony Edwards makes all-nba his number jumps to 42.6 for next year

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So we have gone from trading away all our acquired lottery picks to getting James Harden. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

The idea would be to get someone better than Trae. Young might be the most flawed all-star in the game. I'm not a fan of settling for that, tbh.

who is that player that's better than Trae and will become available before the 25 draft, where we have about 4 picks? Just curious

[mo7888]

I'm no Harden fanboy, but if the choices are Harden for 2 or 3 years and keeping all of our draft capital or giving up a huge package for Trae... then I'll begrudgingly take Harden.

That said, if we're talking about using a bag as opposed to trading, then offer the bag to PG first...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

who is that player that's better than Trae and will become available before the 25 draft, where we have about 4 picks? Just curious

Just because you do not know who might be available does not mean that other all stars could not be had that are not in consideration. Being a Spurs fan this is par the course with their trades and signings. They seldom telegraph their intentions or preference.

Uncertainty is no excuse for desperation.

[kace]

It'll be three years or five, if not more. The actual difference between Wemby and a guy like Giannis or Jokic is massive right now, even if the stats don't show it. Wemby's window hasn't opened yet, and his supporting cast is not the reason why. That's an internal thing based on his skill, temperament and experience. That process cannot be skipped or even meaningfully accelerated. Pop knows this. Manu knows this. Even Charles Barkley knows this.

The Spurs should absolutely not approach this off-season with a mandate to build a winning team. That's how you become one of those teams that throws a ton of assets and flexibility down the drain. The mandate should be to put the pieces around Wemby for him to continue his development. That should mean the Spurs get better players, and the hope is that it results in a fair bit more wins. But barring something drastic, the team is on Wemby's timeline, and that timeline may not be as far along as Victor himself wants it to be.

i don't think there's only one way to win or to build a contender. it depends on the opportunities.

The Lakers didn't wait for Kobe to be at his prime to win championships with him. If we can somehow get our hands on a star, i say we should do it. Good role players will follow and we could still develop some young prospects. I really believe Wemby will be very very good in two years. no need to wait for his supposed prime in his middle twenties.

i'm not saying it would be a failure if we don't win, or at least contends, till Victor is 24-25 years old. I'm just saying that if we have the oppportunity to improve drastically without comprosing the team in the long term, we should try it.

and we definitely should win more games as soon as next year. Pop will have some pressure to gets results with the team, the first season it will happen for him since a very long time. Not that i think he is not able to do that or that he is too worried about the pressure, but it will be an interesting season.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just because you do not know who might be available does not mean that other all stars could not be had that are not in consideration. Being a Spurs fan this is par the course with their trades and signings. They seldom telegraph their intentions or preference.

Uncertainty is no excuse for desperation.

That's the type of answer I expected. Y'all don't have a target and are just fantasizing. And now people all of a sudden want James Harden :lmao

The bottom line is this: Most of our warchest will be gone by the 25 draft. If the Bulls pick conveys we will be left with swaps and one ATL pick, besides our own draft picks. So who you want to trade for then? Or do y'all want to draft 4 rookies?

[baseline bum]

If Anthony Edwards makes all-nba his number jumps to 42.6 for next year

Then they'd have to salary dump some guys to make up for that ~$7.5 million difference. Still not drastic enough to where they'd have to salary dump Reid to get under the second apron.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's the type of answer I expected. Y'all don't have a target and are just fantasizing. And now people all of a sudden want James Harden :lmao

The bottom line is this: Most of our warchest will be gone by the 25 draft. If the Bulls pick conveys we will be left with swaps and one ATL pick, besides our own draft picks. So who you want to trade for then? Or do y'all want to draft 4 rookies?

No, I am saying that you are playing off uncertainty based on lack of fan access. You can act smarmy if you like but your just left with fearmongering.

Spurs have the Hawks over a barrel with their picks. It makes sense that the two would be talking and that the Hawks would be chirping. We have a good shot a Young but this notion that we need to make a desperate play is just weak minded foolishness.

[baseline bum]

I'm no Harden fanboy, but if the choices are Harden for 2 or 3 years and keeping all of our draft capital or giving up a huge package for Trae... then I'll begrudgingly take Harden.

That said, if we're talking about using a bag as opposed to trading, then offer the bag to PG first...

It's really only a huge package for Trae if you're convinced they'll dump him to the Lakers for picks and thus tank without having any of their own picks, which I don't see at all. Otherwise it's trading two picks likely to be around #10 and a swap to around #10 plus change for him while giving them the chance to make those three top 5 picks for themselves. They're not going to get a deal better than that for Trae.

[TD 21]

The Spurs wouldn't touch Harden with a 10 foot pole and they'd have to blow the Clippers offer out of the water to get him to reconsider anyway.

Holiday, on the other hand, I could see them pursuing. Of course, he's overwhelmingly likely to either re-sign with the Celtics or if he prefers a bigger role while remaining in championship contention, sign with the 76ers.


Whether or not Trae is the right move, all debatable, like flavors of ice cream. But it seems like we finally have a critical mass of though that the right move is to push forward towards building a team that can take the next step (play-in), rather than the previous preference of some, which was to just continue tanking.

That's what these people don't get. They're so consumed with the flavor of the month, which just so happens to currently be Young.

This is more so about the unique situation this organization finds itself in and the needle they're going to have to thread which doesn't align with their fetish of relying on raw 19 year old's in a projected weak draft, hoarding picks and pursuing marginal upgrades.



who is that player that's better than Trae and will become available before the 25 draft, where we have about 4 picks? Just curious

I've yet to see any of the detractors answer this. All they do is regurgitate the things we all already know.

[DAF86]

who is that player that's better than Trae and will become available before the 25 draft, where we have about 4 picks? Just curious

Why do we need to find Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft?

[DAF86]

I'm no Harden fanboy, but if the choices are Harden for 2 or 3 years and keeping all of our draft capital or giving up a huge package for Trae... then I'll begrudgingly take Harden.

That said, if we're talking about using a bag as opposed to trading, then offer the bag to PG first...

Also, pretty much this. Harden on a short deal and without giving up draft capital >>>>>>> Trae minus 4 unprotected first round picks.

[mo7888]

It's really only a huge package for Trae if you're convinced they'll dump him to the Lakers for picks and thus tank without having any of their own picks, which I don't see at all. Otherwise it's trading two picks likely to be around #10 and a swap to around #10 plus change for him while giving them the chance to make those three top 5 picks for themselves. They're not going to get a deal better than that for Trae.

I'd still rather have Harden + three #10 picks (swap included) than Trae - those picks. That lets me use those picks to trade for other players.

[JPB]

It'll be three years or five, if not more. The actual difference between Wemby and a guy like Giannis or Jokic is massive right now, even if the stats don't show it. Wemby's window hasn't opened yet, and his supporting cast is not the reason why. That's an internal thing based on his skill, temperament and experience. That process cannot be skipped or even meaningfully accelerated. Pop knows this. Manu knows this. Even Charles Barkley knows this.

The Spurs should absolutely not approach this off-season with a mandate to build a winning team. .

I completely disagree with that, and pretty much everybody I hear or read, including Barkley, Woj, windohorst, Stein... disagreé with that. Actually, everyone is saying exactly the opposite. And there's what Manu said and what the spurs thought at the start of the season and there's what Wemby is kinda of forcing them to reconsider, will they or not. And I'm not sure what makes so sure of what Pop and spurs FO's miindset right now... Atually Pop admitted he didn't expect Wemby to be that good znd to post those kind of stats.

there's absolutley no way, if you ask me, Spurs quietly see this as a 3-5 process, developing picks, and not making major moves to make them competitive quickly... Nobody wokld understand or accept that, starting by the fans and Wemby... That would be a crime against BB to bury Wemby into 3 more years of purgatory while he'll already be a top 10 (top 5?) NBA player next year... The kid has best in history potential and he's already all NBA defense.

No way with not only how wemly plays, but the clear signs he's sending. (flirting with tRae at the ASG, mentioning winning every other sentence, saying he understands spurs see it as a step by ste process but he's used to climb the stairs running, Windhorst (close to Wemby's clan) publcly saying Wemby won't take the losing very long)...

Spurs SHOULD absolutley try to mkae the team more competitive this summer.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's really only a huge package for Trae if you're convinced they'll dump him to the Lakers for picks and thus tank without having any of their own picks, which I don't see at all. Otherwise it's trading two picks likely to be around #10 and a swap to around #10 plus change for him while giving them the chance to make those three top 5 picks for themselves. They're not going to get a deal better than that for Trae.

Why even give the extra pick? Let them self tank and trade Young making our pick and swap top 7 or even better. They get what exactly? Please. I'll take my chances trying to sell the tanking team's picks.

Unless they can find some lottery team or miracle talent windfall that we cannot get in on to trade with, they have two choices, trade with us or don't trade at all for the next two years.

[baseline bum]

I'd still rather have Harden + three #10 picks (swap included) than Trae - those picks. That lets me use those picks to trade for other players.

I don't get it. Trade those picks one at a time for marginal players? Harden's a bitch who disappears every single playoffs, I wouldn't want him in free agency even on the reduced money the Spurs could offer. Wemby would fucking hate playing with a guy who gives such little of a shit about winning.

[baseline bum]

Why even give the extra pick? Let them self tank and trade Young making our pick and swap top 7 or even better. They get what exactly? Please. I'll take my chances trying to sell the tanking team's picks.

Unless they can find some lottery team or miracle talent windfall that we cannot get in on to trade with, they have two choices, trade with us or don't trade at all for the next two years.

What extra pick? I'm saying give them their 25 and 27 and tear up the 26 swap plus change (like Keldon + Collins for salary matching purposes). They're not going to tank by trading Young when they don't have their 25/26/27 picks. I don't know why people think they're going to do the Spurs such a solid by bottoming out so we can draft Cooper Flagg and AJ Dybantsa with their picks.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Harden/Young dichotomy is just fearmongering stupidity.

[DAF86]

I've yet to see any of the detractors answer this. All they do is regurgitate the things we all already know.

Like I said above, why do we need to get Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft? Getting that second star that is going to sidekick Wemby for years to come is kinda of a big deal. I know some people might think that if Trae doesn't pan out, they can just re-direct and get rid of him quite easily, but I don't know how realistic that would be. In getting Young, you're giving up, at least, 4 unprotected first round picks and a big ass contract. Pivoting from that won't be as easy as some of you might think.

Making a move for Trae that ends up proving to be not good enough to trully contend for championships might end up costing us Wembanyama. I don't know why we should be in any rush to make that decision and settle for, arguably, the most flawed "star" in the entire league, tbh.

[JPB]

Harden?

Come on, now.

[baseline bum]

Like I said above, why do we need to get Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft? Getting that second star that is going to sidekick Wemby for years to come is kinda of a big deal. I know some people might think that if Trae doesn't pan out, they can just re-direct and get rid of him quite easily, but I don't know how realistic that would be. In getting Young, you're giving up, at least, 4 unprotected first round picks and a big ass contract. Pivoting from that won't be as easy as some of you might think.

Making a move for Trae that ends up proving to be not good enough to trully contend for championships might end up costing us Wembanyama. I don't know why we should be in any rush to make that decision and settle for, arguably, the most flawed "star" in the entire league, tbh.

What makes you think Young is commanding four unprotected firsts? Lakers could only offer three.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What extra pick? I'm saying give them their 25 and 27 and tear up the 26 swap plus change (like Keldon + Collins for salary matching purposes). They're not going to tank by trading Young when they don't have their 25/26/27 picks. I don't know why people think they're going to do the Spurs such a solid by bottoming out so we can draft Cooper Flagg and AJ Dybantsa with their picks.

You keep on pointing out what the Hawks won't want to do but they are still left with the dilemma of get their picks back or treadmill.

I want to know why you have to give them what will essentially be 3 picks in the part of the lottery where it's much better than a coinflip they guy can play when we don't have competition.

[DAF86]

What makes you think Young is commanding four unprotected firsts? Lakers could only offer three.

The least the Hawks will ask the Spurs is all of their picks back, then they almost have the obligation of asking for something more so that it doesn't end up looking like a Murray for Trae trade straight up. Getting Trae will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the league.

[baseline bum]

You keep on pointing out what the Hawks won't want to do but they are still left with the dilemma of get their picks back or treadmill.

I want to know why you have to give them what will essentially be 3 picks in the part of the lottery where it's much better than a coinflip they guy can play when we don't have competition.

Treadmill when they don't have their picks is better than lottery when they don't have their picks. Also let's look at #10 picks (which is where Atlanta would draft right now) from the last ten years:

2023 - Cason Wallace - might be decent
2022 - Johnny Davis - bust
2021 - Zaire Williams - bust
2020 - Jalen Smith - not very good
2019 - Cam Reddish - not very good
2018 - Mikal Bridges - great pick
2017 - Zach Collins - not very good
2016 - Thon Maker - bust
2015 - Justice Winslow - bust
2014 - Elfrid Payton - not very good

Yeah give me three of those guys chosen at random instead of Trae Young. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The least the Hawks will ask the Spurs is all of their picks back, then they almost have the obligation of asking for something more so that it doesn't end up looking like a Murray for Trae trade straight up. Getting Trae will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the league.

So whatever the Hawks want they will get and fuck us and anything we want. Nice.

[DAF86]

Just look at the Mavs, they panicked and made a stupid mistake by basically swapping Brunson for Irving. The Spurs only need to hit on one of the many lottery picks they'll have in the next couple of years to get a sidekick that's probably better than Trae fucking Young.

[baseline bum]

The least the Hawks will ask the Spurs is all of their picks back, then they almost have the obligation of asking for something more so that it doesn't end up looking like a Murray for Trae trade straight up. Getting Trae will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the league.

They can ask all they want, Spurs don't have to bid against themselves. But they can have their Charlotte pick back, maybe even the Chicago lottery protected one so they can save face.

[baseline bum]

Just look at the Mavs, they panicked and made a stupid mistake by basically swapping Brunson for Irving. The Spurs only need to hit on one of the many lottery picks they'll have in the next couple of years to get a sidekick that's probably better than Trae fucking Young.

Yes the front office who thought Primo was better than Sengun is going to beat those 3-in-10 odds I posted above for getting someone better than Trae with three picks at #10.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Treadmill when they don't have their picks is better than lottery when they don't have their picks. Also let's look at #10 picks (which is where Atlanta would draft right now) from the last ten years:

2023 - Cason Wallace - might be decent
2022 - Johnny Davis - bust
2021 - Zaire Williams - bust
2020 - Jalen Smith - not very good
2019 - Cam Reddish - not very good
2018 - Mikal Bridges - great pick
2017 - Zach Collins - not very good
2016 - Thon Maker - bust
2015 - Justice Winslow - bust
2014 - Elfrid Payton - not very good

Yeah give me three of those guys chosen at random instead of Trae Young. :lol

They are the number ten pick now. The moment that trade happens where is the pick likely to fall? Certainly much higher than 10 in a much better draft.

Again, Hawks are kinda fucked.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why do we need to find Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft?

well what would you do instead with the ATL 25, CHI 25, Spurs 25 and possibly even the CHA 25 pick? You want 4 more rookies on the roster?

[DAF86]

Yes the front office who thought Primo was better than Sengun is going to beat those 3-in-10 odds I posted above for getting someone better than Trae with three picks at #10.

Spurs' own picks, the Toronto pick, The Hawks' picks. They only need to hit in ONE of all those picks to get someone better than Trae Young. Not to mention the chance of getting a Jalen Brunson type with a second round pick. I honestly would take my chances on the draft over getting a guy that I know is flawed and don't trust to be a good enough number 2 option, tbh.

[DAF86]

well what would you do instead with the ATL 25, CHI 25, Spurs 25 and possibly even the CHA 25 pick? You want 4 more rookies on the roster?

Draft with the likely chance of hitting on at least one that ends up better than Young, or wait for midseason to see if a better player becomes available.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just look at the Mavs, they panicked and made a stupid mistake by basically swapping Brunson for Irving. The Spurs only need to hit on one of the many lottery picks they'll have in the next couple of years to get a sidekick that's probably better than Trae fucking Young.

that's not how it went. Brunson wanted to go to the Knicks and the Mavs couldn't extend him. They didn't trade him for Kyrie.

If the Spurs draft that sidekick in let's say 2027. When do you think he will be ready to be the #2 option on a championship team? Certainly not his rookie year. Year 3? So the Spurs can contend in 2030 when Wemby is 26?

[MannyIsGod]

Just look at the Mavs, they panicked and made a stupid mistake by basically swapping Brunson for Irving. The Spurs only need to hit on one of the many lottery picks they'll have in the next couple of years to get a sidekick that's probably better than Trae fucking Young.

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty fucking obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

[RC_Drunkford]

Draft with the likely chance of hitting on at least one that ends up better than Young, or wait for midseason to see if a better player becomes available.

Ok so we adding 4 rookies in 2025, 1 rookie in 2026, 2 rookies in 2027. Who do you actually keep on the roster or is Wemby going to win a chip surrounded by a bunch of rookies and sophomores? You only got 15 roster spots.

[Chinook]

i don't think there's only one way to win or to build a contender. it depends on the opportunities.

The Lakers didn't wait for Kobe to be at his prime to win championships with him.

Kobe was not their franchise player. Shaq was. I don't think there's much wrong if the team had a path to get a top-10 player, and let Wemby be his Robin. I've said that enough for it to be exhausting. If Wemby is going to be the best player on the team, then the team will move on his timeline, no matter how much you improve his talent. That's why Barkley was trying to tell them that the Spurs are still going to be bad next year, Young or not. Shaq was Shaqting out and cutting him, but Barkley was trying to temper expectations, because he seems to think like I do that Wemby's not at that point yet. It's not simply a matter of "getting used to" the NBA either. It's going to require hundreds of hours in the gym and film room in addition to hundreds of games to get him to that point. That's what Pop was trying to say. Duncan spoiled people. His readiness was an abnormal as Wemby's size/skill combination.

Wemby's ceiling is higher than most star prospects, but he still has a curve. I'm really feeling like his curve is going to look more like Durant's did, which is actually a gift for the Spurs because they have a chance at a 2025 lottery pick if they want it.

[Dejounte]

Just look at the Mavs, they panicked and made a stupid mistake by basically swapping Brunson for Irving. The Spurs only need to hit on one of the many lottery picks they'll have in the next couple of years to get a sidekick that's probably better than Trae fucking Young.

When they hit, then it’s another three years to get that player acclimated. I’m glad you think we have all this time to get that player and have so much faith that one of those players will pan out. It’s like putting all your eggs in a basket in a few lottery tickets.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty fucking obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

nah man just look at the last 6 years. Aside from Wemby we had two 19th picks, the 29th pick, the 11th, 12th, 9th, 20th and 25th pick and ended up with Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell, Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley and big dick Primo. All of them are better than Trae Young :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Kobe was not their franchise player. Shaq was. I don't think there's much wrong if the team had a path to get a top-10 player, and let Wemby be his Robin. I've said that enough for it to be exhausting. If Wemby is going to be the best player on the team, then the team will move on his timeline, no matter how much you improve his talent. That's why Barkley was trying to tell them that the Spurs are still going to be bad next year, Young or not. Shaq was Shaqting out and cutting him, but Barkley was trying to temper expectations, because he seems to think like I do that Wemby's not at that point yet. It's not simply a matter of "getting used to" the NBA either. It's going to require hundreds of hours in the gym and film room in addition to hundreds of games to get him to that point. That's what Pop was trying to say. Duncan spoiled people. His readiness was an abnormal as Wemby's size/skill combination.

Wemby's ceiling is higher than most star prospects, but he still has a curve. I'm really feeling like his curve is going to look more like Durant's did, which is actually a gift for the Spurs because they have a chance at a 2025 lottery pick if they want it.

Shaq and Kobe were both HoF caliber players. There are other structures than unilateral such as bilateral you might consider.

[baseline bum]

Spurs' own picks, the Toronto pick, The Hawks' picks. They only need to hit in ONE of all those picks to get someone better than Trae Young. Not to mention the chance of getting a Jalen Brunson type with a second round pick. I honestly would take my chances on the draft over getting a guy that I know is flawed and don't trust to be a good enough number 2 option, tbh.

So they'll still have their own picks and the Toronto pick to get that better than Trae Young guy you want. But the odds aren't great getting someone better than Young with Brian Wright picking around tenth three years in a row with the Atlanta picks and the swap. And even in that best case scenario they do it's still a rookie who would take a few years to be better than Young. There's no way in hell Atlanta can have the Spurs pick or the Toronto pick for Young, they bent themselves over a barrel with the Dejounte trade.

[DAF86]

that's not how it went. Brunson wanted to go to the Knicks and the Mavs couldn't extend him. They didn't trade him for Kyrie.

Not true:

yJYrL34XqAI

Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.


If the Spurs draft that sidekick in let's say 2027. When do you think he will be ready to be the #2 option on a championship team? Certainly not his rookie year. Year 3? So the Spurs can contend in 2030 when Wemby is 26?

Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty fucking obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

Hawks still will never self tank by trading away their stars without getting at least some of their picks over the next few years back. That means that we don't have competition because we have to be dealt with first.

I get the carpe diem impulse, but I hope the Spurs are better negotiators than the lot around here.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not true:

yJYrL34XqAI

Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

if you think Wemby will wait that long to contend, while the Spurs bring in 9 rookies within 4 years to find his sidekick good luck

[Chinook]

Not true:

yJYrL34XqAI

Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

Dallas is the best-case scenario for a team that lets their panic over a young star leaving dominate their front-office decisions. After spending basically every asset they could, they have a decent roster. But that roster is not so good that people would blame Luka for wanting to walk away even though his team gave him what he wanted and let him do whatever he wanted to do on the court. That's the best case. The worst is being like the Cavs during Lebron's first stint and basically have a shit-tier roster around their GOAT candidate which immediately went to shit after he left despite the owner's vow to win now.

People never seem to look at what's worked historically and what hasn't worked. The Spurs are not the first team in this position, and how things tend to go from here is pretty straight-forward.

[baseline bum]

Hawks still will never self tank by trading away their stars without getting at least some of their picks over the next few years back. That means that we don't have competition because we have to be dealt with first.

I get the carpe diem impulse, but I hope the Spurs are better negotiators than the lot around here.

Are you thinking you can get Young for the 25 ATL pick, ripping up the 26 swap, and change (say Keldon+Collins for salary, the Charlotte fake first, and maybe the protected CHI pick)? That would be awesome but ATL would probably counter with wondering if the Spurs are serious that they'd value three picks around #10 and change over Trae.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nah man just look at the last 6 years. Aside from Wemby we had two 19th picks, the 29th pick, the 11th, 12th, 9th, 20th and 25th pick and ended up with Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell, Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley and big dick Primo. All of them are better than Trae Young :lol

That is great and all but Young was drafted 5th. I forget exactly where but there is a significant increase in success after 8 and again at 4 or something like that. But if you want to pretend that the Spurs have a bad success rate picking 10+ then have fun.

[DAF86]

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty fucking obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

[baseline bum]

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby (#1), Chet (#2), Banchero (#1), Haliburton (#12), Jalen Brunson (#33), Cade (#1), Edwards (#1), Barnes (#4), Wagner (#8), J-Williams (#12), Sengun (#16). And I got tired of thinking.


So four of them available at where the Atlanta picks would likely convey, seven of them ahead (and five of them #1 or #2).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you thinking you can get Young for the 25 ATL pick, ripping up the 26 swap, and change (say Keldon+Collins for salary, the Charlotte fake first, and maybe the protected CHI pick)? That would be awesome but ALT would probably counter with wondering if the Spurs are serious that they'd value three picks around #10 and change over Trae.

You're inserting your wonder for the Hawks which is fun but is not representative. Frankly when you start talking about ideas of worth in a free market negotiation you are missing how worth is determined.

They can threaten to keep running the treadmill but they cannot threaten to go to a competitor. We literally hold the only picks they can use.

We are quite literally offering them what will be top 5 picks for them if they do the deal. Why give them all 3?

[mo7888]

I don't get it. Trade those picks one at a time for marginal players? Harden's a bitch who disappears every single playoffs, I wouldn't want him in free agency even on the reduced money the Spurs could offer. Wemby would fucking hate playing with a guy who gives such little of a shit about winning.

It's not that i 'want' Harden. I'd just rather have him + those picks than Trae. I dont think Trae is really better than Harden. And does it matter if he vanishes in the playoffs as long as we're there next year? He probably will be better in 2 years but they're both similar right now.

So, what do i do with those other picks? I wait for someone i really want and package them or maybe move a couple of our own for a player that fits (Cam Johnson caliber or maybe a a smaller pick S&T for Tobias Harris).... or maybe i package all of them along with Harden at the deadline if say Luka falls out with Dallas... or maybe Trae falls completely out in Atlanta and i can trade Harden + a couple of our picks for him, then... the point is there are many more options available to us if we get a player like Harden and keep those picks instead of moving them all for Trae.

[DAF86]

if you think Wemby will wait that long to contend, while the Spurs bring in 9 rookies within 4 years to find his sidekick good luck

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?

[MultiTroll]

Not true:

yJYrL34XqAI

Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.
I believe the Mavs version.
Not the choreographed Up In Smoke version.

:lol Butthurt Steven Jackson still trying to re write history to color himself as some greatly dissed star.

[baseline bum]

It's not that i 'want' Harden. I'd just rather have him + those picks than Trae. I dont think Trae is really better than Harden. And does it matter if he vanishes in the playoffs as long as we're there next year? He probably will be better in 2 years but they're both similar right now.

So, what do i do with those other picks? I wait for someone i really want and package them or maybe move a couple of our own for a player that fits (Cam Johnson caliber or maybe a a smaller pick S&T for Tobias Harris).... or maybe i package all of them along with Harden at the deadline if say Luka falls out with Dallas... or maybe Trae falls completely out in Atlanta and i can trade Harden + a couple of our picks for him, then... the point is there are many more options available to us if we get a player like Harden and keep those picks instead of moving them all for Trae.

It matters that Harden has a toxic mentality and doesn't care at all about winning and that would piss Wemby off. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Murray or Jalen Johnson before bringing Harden in here. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Capella or for seconds or for a year of Chick Fil-A and some Outkast tapes before I'd want Harden anywhere near the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Like I said above, why do we need to get Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft? Getting that second star that is going to sidekick Wemby for years to come is kinda of a big deal. I know some people might think that if Trae doesn't pan out, they can just re-direct and get rid of him quite easily, but I don't know how realistic that would be. In getting Young, you're giving up, at least, 4 unprotected first round picks and a big ass contract. Pivoting from that won't be as easy as some of you might think.

Making a move for Trae that ends up proving to be not good enough to trully contend for championships might end up costing us Wembanyama. I don't know why we should be in any rush to make that decision and settle for, arguably, the most flawed "star" in the entire league, tbh.

They don't necessarily have to do that, but even the half measures (say Murray) would cost considerable draft capital anyway.

Being ultra conservative to the point of being scared to make a mistake could end up costing up Wembanyama in the long run, too. At the very least, even if Young blows up in their face, they'll have shown him they're committed to winning sooner than later and not wasting his time hoping to get lucky with a co-star who checks virtually ever box.

It doesn't have to be Young, the point is that this is not a regular re-build and it needs to be treated as such.

[SOMA Spur]

They can ask all they want, Spurs don't have to bid against themselves. But they can have their Charlotte pick back, maybe even the Chicago lottery protected one so they can save face.

Ding.ding.ding. Now we're talking. This will be the minimum of a deal it would take - 4 picks and a swap. My guess it might take another swap. Hopefully not. But the saving face part is real. ATL (and mainly their jagoff owners son) needs to tell their fan base they screwed over SA this time in the deal. "We got more than the KD trade!" But here's the secret - we're actually screwing them, big time. What Trae will unlock with this team will be immense. And if that happens before draft night, even better.

[mo7888]

It matters that Harden has a toxic mentality and doesn't care at all about winning and that would piss Wemby off. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Murray or Jalen Johnson before bringing Harden in here. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Capella or for seconds or for a year of Chick Fil-A and some Outkast tapes before I'd want Harden anywhere near the Spurs.

I don't think Wemby is going to be upset if we sign Harden. I think he'll be thrilled because he'll be seeing the FO being proactive. That seems to be what he's telling them...

[baseline bum]

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

[DAF86]

When they hit, then it’s another three years to get that player acclimated. I’m glad you think we have all this time to get that player and have so much faith that one of those players will pan out. It’s like putting all your eggs in a basket in a few lottery tickets.

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

[baseline bum]

I don't think Wemby is going to be upset if we sign Harden. I think he'll be thrilled because he'll be seeing the FO being proactive. That seems to be what he's telling them...

And then he'll see how little Harden cares about winning and become upset.

[baseline bum]

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

Manu was 25 and the best player in Euroleague.

[DAF86]

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

It is not only about the picks, you would also be giving up max cap space to a player that is severely flawed. Pretty much giving up on pairing Wemby with any guy better than Young.

[Dejounte]

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

The answer is nothing. Nothing makes it panicky. These guys want to stand pat forever and rely on past Spurs’ history and think they can rekindle that magic again with Manu and Parker. Every team has caught up with the Spurs in that regard. The days of old when the Spurs found gold are long gone. It’s all about getting lucky these days and relying on luck is poor management.

[mo7888]

And then he'll see how little Harden cares about winning and become upset.

I doubt that the odds of him upsetting Wemby are greater than the odds that Trae would upset Wemby, but if it does, you trade him... and you've got assets to include to go after someone better...

[RC_Drunkford]

That is great and all but Young was drafted 5th. I forget exactly where but there is a significant increase in success after 8 and again at 4 or something like that. But if you want to pretend that the Spurs have a bad success rate picking 10+ then have fun.

who guarantees that those Hawks picks will be top 5 picks? The chances are rather slim


Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

Guess what: The Spurs had the chance to draft Haliburton, Sengun, Jalen Brunson and J-Will, but they didn't :lol What makes you so confident that they will somehow draft the right guy, when history says they won't?

[Dejounte]

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.
Ha! When I made my last post, I didn’t see this. My last post was spot on. You’re living in the past.

[RC_Drunkford]

so let me get this straight: People don't want Trae Young because he's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands. But people want Harden who's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands, while also being on the wrong side of 30 and a known choker. You can't make this up :lol

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?
Here’s another scenario. Wright has no idea how to draft. The Spurs make the wrong picks. We are still the youngest team in the NBA since we didn’t trade any of our picks. The roster finishes in the 7-8 seed at best and we lose a lot. And on top of all that we still don’t get a second star even with our picks. None of our guards are as good as Young. And the Spurs wasted an opportunity to get a bonafide all star player. Plus in the mean time we are stuck with middling guys eating up our cap space and have no real shot at improving.

Thats more likely to happen. Plus it won’t take all of our picks to get Young anyways. Toronto pick, Hawks pick, and a FRP from us ought to do it. Heck we can even throw in the pick swap back. That still leaves us with one Hawks pick, and all of our own FRPs except next years. Or 2026 if we think next years draft is really strong. Plus we will still be able to draft Risacher with our own pick. Get rid of Collins and have cap space to get actual help for Wemby. None of our future is wasted

[RC_Drunkford]

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

yeah right, there will be this 25 year old Euroleague MVP in the draft in 2027 :lol

Manu averaged 8 points in his rookie year. I bet Wemby would be thrilled to have a sidekick like that.

[DAF86]

They don't necessarily have to do that, but even the half measures (say Murray) would cost considerable draft capital anyway.

Being ultra conservative to the point of being scared to make a mistake could end up costing up Wembanyama in the long run, too. At the very least, even if Young blows up in their face, they'll have shown him they're committed to winning sooner than later and not wasting his time hoping to get lucky with a co-star who checks virtually ever box.

It doesn't have to be Young, the point is that this is not a regular re-build and it needs to be treated as such.

I'm not asking to be conservative, I'm just saying that I wouldn't do the Trae trade. I would be all-in for a guy like Mitchell or someone of that level that doesn't have as clear a flaw as Young.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

who guarantees that those Hawks picks will be top 5 picks? The chances are rather slim

The Hawks. That is kinda the point of trading away your best players. Now if you want to say the one we keep 3 years out if that was the case, let's just say I would take my chances with how that turned out.

[baseline bum]

It is not only about the picks, you would also be giving up max cap space to a player that is severely flawed. Pretty much giving up on pairing Wemby with any guy better than Young.

That doesn't make any sense. Victor can't get paid big money until 27-28 so that's plenty of flexibility to get another max level player. If they luck into drafting another SGA it's a five year countdown until he can get paid too. At which time fine, you say goodbye to Trae if you have gotten so lucky. How about the scenario they say they're too good for a Trae Young level allstar but don't draft the next SGA? Then you have rebuilt the 90s Spurs or 00s Timberwolves around Wemby.

[DAF86]

Ha! When I made my last post, I didn’t see this. My last post was spot on. You’re living in the past.

I'm living in the present too. Just watch how well teams like the Bucks and Mavs are doing after making moves like the one yall suggesting.

[Splits]

Draft with the likely chance of hitting on at least one that ends up better than Young, or wait for midseason to see if a better player becomes available.

You understand 1st round picks require a roster spot, right? And those are not unlimited? You can't just say "nah, we didn't like what we saw in summer camp, good luck". We have potentially 5 firsts in 2025, lmao run out a team where a third of them are 19yo in VWs 3rd year

[baseline bum]

I'm not asking to be conservative, I'm just saying that I wouldn't do the Trae trade. I would be all-in for a guy like Mitchell or someone of that level that doesn't have as clear a flaw as Young.

Mitchell has a flaw of wanting to play in New York. Trae actually wants to come here.

[mo7888]

so let me get this straight: People don't want Trae Young because he's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands. But people want Harden who's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands, while also being on the wrong side of 30 and a known choker. You can't make this up :lol

No... people would just prefer getting the guy that lets us keep our draft capital if they're the same heliocentric player etc etc

[baseline bum]

I doubt that the odds of him upsetting Wemby are greater than the odds that Trae would upset Wemby, but if it does, you trade him... and you've got assets to include to go after someone better...

Gotta disagree. Clearly seems like Victor and Trae want to play together. Trae's not an unprofessional loser like Harden, he's someone who would likely get Victor easier shots and someone who grew up wanting to sport Spurs colors just like Victor did.

[DAF86]

Here’s another scenario. Wright has no idea how to draft. The Spurs make the wrong picks. We are still the youngest team in the NBA since we didn’t trade any of our picks. The roster finishes in the 7-8 seed at best and we lose a lot. And on top of all that we still don’t get a second star even with our picks. None of our guards are as good as Young. And the Spurs wasted an opportunity to get a bonafide all star player. Plus in the mean time we are stuck with middling guys eating up our cap space and have no real shot at improving.

Thats more likely to happen. Plus it won’t take all of our picks to get Young anyways. Toronto pick, Hawks pick, and a FRP from us ought to do it. Heck we can even throw in the pick swap back. That still leaves us with one Hawks pick, and all of our own FRPs except next years. Or 2026 if we think next years draft is really strong. Plus we will still be able to draft Risacher with our own pick. Get rid of Collins and have cap space to get actual help for Wemby. None of our future is wasted

Well, that's when you can start making those panicky moves.

[DAF86]

Mitchell has a flaw of wanting to play in New York. Trae actually wants to come here.

That will still not be enough when he gets targeted on defense in the WCF possession after possession.

[mo7888]

Gotta disagree. Clearly seems like Victor and Trae want to play together. Trae's not an unprofessional loser like Harden, he's someone who would likely get Victor easier shots and someone who grew up wanting to sport Spurs colors just like Victor did.

Trae has a rep for not being liked by his team mates. Still, I can't know if he wants to come here or of he and Wemby has something going on behind the scenes where they are trying to orchestrate a trade. If that's there then it's going to happen no matter how bad we get raped in the trade. I'm just not sure thsts happening..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This trade is far from a pipe dream. All 3 parties are motivated and the Spurs are in an advantageous position as we hold all the cards.

I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised with how little it ends up costing us.

[baseline bum]

Here’s another scenario. Wright has no idea how to draft. The Spurs make the wrong picks. We are still the youngest team in the NBA since we didn’t trade any of our picks. The roster finishes in the 7-8 seed at best and we lose a lot. And on top of all that we still don’t get a second star even with our picks. None of our guards are as good as Young. And the Spurs wasted an opportunity to get a bonafide all star player. Plus in the mean time we are stuck with middling guys eating up our cap space and have no real shot at improving.

Thats more likely to happen. Plus it won’t take all of our picks to get Young anyways. Toronto pick, Hawks pick, and a FRP from us ought to do it. Heck we can even throw in the pick swap back. That still leaves us with one Hawks pick, and all of our own FRPs except next years. Or 2026 if we think next years draft is really strong. Plus we will still be able to draft Risacher with our own pick. Get rid of Collins and have cap space to get actual help for Wemby. None of our future is wasted

I hate this idea that there is only risk in trading the picks vs the risk in making them instead. Trae Young isn't a home run like lucking into Cooper Flagg might be if say Young blows out his knee next season or a tape measure grand slam like getting SGA at #11 which is about where we could expect those Atlanta picks to convey. But it's a pretty solid double to the gap while one of those picks will probably be a strikeout (say Primo), maybe another will be a single (say Vassell), and the third who knows.

[baseline bum]

Trae has a rep for not being liked by his team mates. Still, I can't know if he wants to come here or of he and Wemby has something going on behind the scenes where they are trying to orchestrate a trade. If that's there then it's going to happen no matter how bad we get raped in the trade. I'm just not sure thsts happening..

When he's telling the media he grew up a Spurs fan I think that's a pretty clear indication he'd like being here.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When he's telling the media he grew up a Spurs fan I think that's a pretty clear indication he'd like being here.

During the time period that either his agent or the hawks were leaking about the negotiation and it was all over the news beat.

[Dejounte]

During the time period that either his agent or the hawks were leaking about the negotiation and it was all over the news beat.

Ugh this reeks of Trumpism and how every word anyone says should be questioned and conspiracies on top of conspiracies for everything

[mo7888]

When he's telling the media he grew up a Spurs fan I think that's a pretty clear indication he'd like being here.

I can't disagree with that...

[baseline bum]

That will still not be enough when he gets targeted on defense in the WCF possession after possession.

There is no doubt Young is a bad defensive player (50.9% DFG). But Mitchell (49% DFG) and Brunson (49.1% DFG) get targeted too and are also bad defensively. Both right on par with Keldon's DFG (49.1%). Young would open up a lot more easy baskets for Victor, space the floor better for him, and give a second scorer while actually being attainable unlike the other two you want.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ugh this reeks of Trumpism and how every word anyone says should be questioned and conspiracies on top of conspiracies for everything

Your post reeks of a harebrained attempt to discredit by association.

I am taking Young at his word here and I can explain the deduction that starts with the Spurs don't leak if you would like.

[TD 21]

I'm not asking to be conservative, I'm just saying that I wouldn't do the Trae trade. I would be all-in for a guy like Mitchell or someone of that level that doesn't have as clear a flaw as Young.

Of course Mitchell would be preferable (though he's not the play maker Young is), but he's also far more unlikely.

That's my point. Come up with something better that has as good a likelihood.

[The Truth #6]

Coby White would be a Spurs type move. Less splashy. Has some logic to it. If we're aiming lower, I would consider him. Playing well this year from when I last looked, which was a while ago. Just throwing out random ideas.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is no doubt Young is a bad defensive player (50.9% DFG). But Mitchell (49% DFG) and Brunson (49.1% DFG) get targeted too and are also bad defensively. Both right on par with Keldon's DFG (49.1%). Young would open up a lot more easy baskets for Victor, space the floor better for him, and give a second scorer while actually being attainable unlike the other two you want.

You would have to surround him with defenders like the Warriors and Curry and we would have to figure out Vassell but Wemby is a great start and Sochan has a shot to be one of those defenders. We have such a long fucking way to go but Young would be about as good of a start as we could get.

Either way it will be cheaper to buy from the Hawks than anyone else because our picks are worth more to them. Their mediocre 10t picks or worse to everyone else including ourselves.

This trade almost has to happen.

[Chinook]

Coby White would be a Spurs type move. Less splashy. Has some logic to it. If we're aiming lower, I would consider him. Playing well this year from when I last looked, which was a while ago. Just throwing out random ideas.

I'd only consider White if the cost is basically just the Chicago pick. He's still a temporary solution and is more of a facilitator than a play-maker

[SpursBills]

Dallas is the best-case scenario for a team that lets their panic over a young star leaving dominate their front-office decisions. After spending basically every asset they could, they have a decent roster. But that roster is not so good that people would blame Luka for wanting to walk away even though his team gave him what he wanted and let him do whatever he wanted to do on the court. That's the best case. The worst is being like the Cavs during Lebron's first stint and basically have a shit-tier roster around their GOAT candidate which immediately went to shit after he left despite the owner's vow to win now.

People never seem to look at what's worked historically and what hasn't worked. The Spurs are not the first team in this position, and how things tend to go from here is pretty straight-forward.

I sort of see what you're saying, but I think there are a couple of distinctions that make a potential Trae Young or any such win-now trade different from both Dallas (your best case) and Cleveland (worst case scenario). The most obvious one is that the Spurs would only be trading away only Hawks picks and swaps +/- other acquired picks, and would be keeping all of their own. The second is that the Spurs have 2 bites at the apple in 2024, the year after superstar's rookie year. In both Dallas and Cleveland, the team whiffed on the pick the next year. Cleveland famously selected Luke Jackson instead of Iguodala one pick earlier while the Mavs had no pick the following year due to their trade with Atlanta, and their superstars developed so well that they didn't have any decent picks after that. So I think even the worst case scenario of a "panic move" here is far better than the best case that you've outlined in Dallas. However, that does mean that we have to nail our picks this year.

That being said, I do agree with you about Wemby not being quite ready for title contention. I'm in favor of a Trae Young trade for the right price (Hawks picks back +/- filler and Keldon), but that's more an indictment on my feelings toward our front office's ability to evaluate talent. If had had more confidence in our scouts and the front office's abilities to draft, and they were still able to pull rabbits out of the draft hat, I'd favor a slow approach, and look at a 4 year timetable. If Wemby isn't happy and complains, I'd tell him to get fucked and dare him to take the qualifying offer in year 4 when he's got a 55 win team stocked full of young up and coming talent. But the fact is, after the Primo draft and with the uncertainty of some of our draft prospects, I'm just not sure enough to definitively take that approach over a flawed star that still fits a significant position of need and synergizes well with Wemby.

[TD 21]

I mentioned White awhile ago. Apparently the Bulls deem him as "untouchable", which is code for unless someone loses their mind and drastically overpays.

I've been over this ad nauseam, but the only non half measures are Young and maybe Mitchell (status/interest in being here less clear). Murray is the best of the half measures, but obviously it's likely the Hawks only trade one of their lead guards.

[boutons_deux]

If the VW Spurs don't progress into a winner, to top, or near, of West Conf, in the next couple years,

VW will be tempted by supermax contracts from promising teams in big markets

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If the VW Spurs don't progress into a winner, to top, or near, of West Conf, in the next couple years,

VW will be tempted by supermax contracts from promising teams in big markets

It takes him 7 years with us to get supermax. I can wait.

[baseline bum]

You would have to surround him with defenders like the Warriors and Curry and we would have to figure out Vassell but Wemby is a great start and Sochan has a shot to be one of those defenders. We have such a long fucking way to go but Young would be about as good of a start as we could get.

Either way it will be cheaper to buy from the Hawks than anyone else because our picks are worth more to them. Their mediocre 10t picks or worse to everyone else including ourselves.

This trade almost has to happen.

So disappointing seeing how much Devin has fallen off defensively this year. He was one of the few bright spots of the early season but he's become Keldon level now.

[MannyIsGod]

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

Hard disagree all of those players will be better than Young. You're seriously underselling what Young provides. Saying you'd ratehr have Franz Wagenr over young is just wow.

[boutons_deux]

It takes him 7 years with us to get supermax. I can wait.

He'll leave for less than supermax.

[mo7888]

Hard disagree all of those players will be better than Young. You're seriously underselling what Young provides. Saying you'd ratehr have Franz Wagenr over young is just wow.

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

[baseline bum]

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

Why? You think he's going to get Victor easier shots than Trae would? He can't shoot the three so I'd be more worried about him getting in Victor's way offensively than I would Trae.

[mo7888]

Why? You think he's going to get Victor easier shots than Trae would? He can't shoot the three so I'd be more worried about him getting in Victor's way offensively than I would Trae.

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

[MannyIsGod]

Its really hard to have a rational discussion about Young when people who don't like him devalue him more than is appropriate. Young will likely never be a good defender, but he's fucking amazing on offense. You can get away with a bad player on defense if you scheme for it - especially with Wemby behind him. I'm not saying we need to go out and use all of our assets to get him, but the truth is that we're not likely to draft someone as good as him. DAF86 listed all the players that he felt were as good as Young taht were recently drafted, but what he didn't list was all the lottery picks who were not. Even with the overinflated list above, the list of busts is way larger. It's HARD to draft players at that level.

[MannyIsGod]

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

Young has led a team to the ECF. Franz hasn't won a playoff game.

[mo7888]

Young has led a team to the ECF. Franz hasn't won a playoff game.

Sure, Franz team was bad and is now on the rise.... Trae's was mid, then had a great season, and now is in the downslide...

[MannyIsGod]

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

So because Franz shoots ALMOST as well from 3 as Young he impacts winning more? Nevermind that this year he's shooting 31% on a much lower volume than Young. Now do the rest of the stats.

[baseline bum]

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

Meh Trae led his team to the ECF at 22 without any teammate anywhere near as good as Banchero so I don't buy the winning argument for Wagner over Trae. And you're making it sound like the offer would be the same for Orlando that it would be for Atlanta. For Orlando it's two picks around #10 and a pick swap to probably around #10. For Atlanta it's the ability to get three top 5 picks, to control their draft and be able to properly start over with two very top heavy drafts coming. The Atlanta picks and the swap are worth way more to Atlanta than to any other team in the league since they become shots at #1, or dropping to #5 if the lottery balls play out badly.

[mo7888]

Its really hard to have a rational discussion about Young when people who don't like him devalue him more than is appropriate. Young will likely never be a good defender, but he's fucking amazing on offense. You can get away with a bad player on defense if you scheme for it - especially with Wemby behind him. I'm not saying we need to go out and use all of our assets to get him, but the truth is that we're not likely to draft someone as good as him. DAF86 listed all the players that he felt were as good as Young taht were recently drafted, but what he didn't list was all the lottery picks who were not. Even with the overinflated list above, the list of busts is way larger. It's HARD to draft players at that level.

It is hard to draft players of Trae's level.... that's not in dispute.... Hell, adding Trae to this team isn't in dispute (by me at least). It's just a matter of weighing it against other options and finding tne best path forward... 4 firsts... KJ and filler is simply a bad deal... we should be able to do better elsewhere...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He'll leave for less than supermax.

at which point he would be waiting 10 years for his prize we are supposed to worry about him wanting.

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, Franz team was bad and is now on the rise.... Trae's was mid, then had a great season, and now is in the downslide...

The downslide is still way better than Wagner! What are you talking about?

Young this year:

26.4 PPG
10.8 APG
.512 eFG
4.8 OBPM
-2.4 DBPM

Franz:

20.6 PPG
4.1 APG
5.6 RPG
.530 efg

1.5 OBPM
0.2 DBPM


Franz is not a bad player but he's not close to the impact that Young has.

EDIT - the last two years are the highest VORP of Young's career. Dude is far from getting worse right now. I get that people don't like him but Atlanta being mismanged is not his fault. They should never have done the DJM trade and they've been paying for it since but that's not on Young.

EDIT - Take it back a bit, this year Young's VORP is lower than previous years but still very high.

[mo7888]

Meh Trae led his team to the ECF at 22 without any teammate anywhere near as good as Banchero so I don't buy the winning argument for Wagner over Trae. And you're making it sound like the offer would be the same for Orlando that it would be for Atlanta. For Orlando it's two picks around #10 and a pick swap to probably around #10. For Atlanta it's the ability to get three top 5 picks, to control their draft and be able to properly start over with two very top heavy drafts coming. The Atlanta picks and the swap are worth way more to Atlanta than to any other team in the league since they become shots at #1, or dropping to #5 if the lottery balls play out badly.

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

[MannyIsGod]

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

[baseline bum]

It is hard to draft players of Trae's level.... that's not in dispute.... Hell, adding Trae to this team isn't in dispute (by me at least). It's just a matter of weighing it against other options and finding tne best path forward... 4 firsts... KJ and filler is simply a bad deal... we should be able to do better elsewhere...

I want a bird in the hand who fits well next to Victor rather than wishing we get SGA, Haliburton, or Doncic with three swings at the plate. I don't see those picks getting us better than Trae in trade either.

[mo7888]

The downslide is still way better than Wagner! What are you talking about?

Young this year:

26.4 PPG
10.8 APG
.512 eFG
4.8 OBPM
-2.4 DBPM

Franz:

20.6 PPG
4.1 APG
5.6 RPG
.530 efg

1.5 OBPM
0.2 DBPM


Franz is not a bad player but he's not close to the impact that Young has.

So, Franz has numbers that aren't that far off Trae offensively and being in the league for fewer years and being a much better rebounder and defender makes the case for Trae?

Ok...

[baseline bum]

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

It wasn't Trae and Banchero either.

[mo7888]

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

The point on the FO isn't that Atlanta has a good one.... its that the Magic don't have a good one either... they are comparable...

I'm not going to argue thst Atlanta has some kind of braintrust and Trae's pulling them down..

[MannyIsGod]

I'm legit not even advocating for the trade. I don't know the Spurs have to do it but I also don't think its an awful idea depending on the price. I think more importantly the Spurs need to fill out this team so that we have a full rotation of NBA contributors. We have too many players who play right now and are only playing because we hope they end up being rotation level players in the NBA. Of the players currently on the team, we don't even have a starting 5 of players who are for sure rotation players in the NBA.

[mo7888]

I want a bird in the hand who fits well next to Victor rather than wishing we get SGA, Haliburton, or Doncic with three swings at the plate. I don't see those picks getting us better than Trae in trade either.

That's a legitimate argument. I'd like a bird in the hand, too. It's a matter of price, though...(although i think you and I agree on that point)

[MannyIsGod]

So, Franz has numbers that aren't that far off Trae offensively and being in the league for fewer years and being a much better rebounder and defender makes the case for Trae?

Ok...

Wait what? They are way lower. I think you're really minimizing how big of a gap over 6ppg and 7APG are. 4.8 vs 1.5 OBPM bears that out. Its a huge difference.

[mo7888]

I'm legit not even advocating for the trade. I don't know the Spurs have to do it but I also don't think its an awful idea depending on the price. I think more importantly the Spurs need to fill out this team so that we have a full rotation of NBA contributors. We have too many players who play right now and are only playing because we hope they end up being rotation level players in the NBA. Of the players currently on the team, we don't even have a starting 5 of players who are for sure rotation players in the NBA.

I'm legit not even advocating against a trade for Trae. I don't know the Spurs have to do it but I also don't think its an awful idea depending on the price. I think more importantly the Spurs need to fill out this team so that we have a full rotation of NBA contributors. We have too many players who play right now and are only playing because we hope they end up being rotation level players in the NBA. Of the players currently on the team, we don't even have a starting 5 of players who are for sure rotation players in the NBA.

That's the way I'd say it to articulate my view. It's not very different than your way of thinking...

[mo7888]

Wait what? They are way lower. I think you're really minimizing how big of a gap over 6ppg and 7APG are. 4.8 vs 1.5 OBPM bears that out. Its a huge difference.

And I think you're over emphasizing his extra 6 points per game with a team without Banchero. I also think you're minimizing Franz on the boards and his defensive impact.

I know your not arguing that Franz is bad.. I'm not arguing that Trae is bad. Im just speaking of over-all impact on winning..

[spurraider21]

Dallas is the best-case scenario for a team that lets their panic over a young star leaving dominate their front-office decisions. After spending basically every asset they could, they have a decent roster. But that roster is not so good that people would blame Luka for wanting to walk away even though his team gave him what he wanted and let him do whatever he wanted to do on the court. That's the best case. The worst is being like the Cavs during Lebron's first stint and basically have a shit-tier roster around their GOAT candidate which immediately went to shit after he left despite the owner's vow to win now.

People never seem to look at what's worked historically and what hasn't worked. The Spurs are not the first team in this position, and how things tend to go from here is pretty straight-forward.
I’d say the best case is Miami who had a star in Wade and traded for Shaq immediately. In year 1 shaq was still their best player. By year 2 together Wade overtook him and won finals mvp

you point to the Durant curve of 3 years but that also includes landing Westbrook in year 2 and Harden in year 3. Not just having good picks but absolutely nailing them.

i can understand arguments against Trae but not when it’s followed by a harden suggestion

[spurraider21]

I wouldn’t really be pushing for a Trae trade if we didn’t have such a surplus of picks. Dallas dried up the well with the kp and kyrie trades now further thinning themselves out with the gafford and pj moves

the spurs could trade for trade and still have a surplus of FRPs which is very different

[Mr. Body]

It's pretty wild that Trae Young is even in the same conversation as guys like Shaq, Westbrook, Durant, Harden, Kyrie, and so on. Young couldn't carry any of their jocks.

[Chinook]

I’d say the best case is Miami who had a star in Wade and traded for Shaq immediately. In year 1 shaq was still their best player. By year 2 together Wade overtook him and won finals mvp

you point to the Durant curve of 3 years but that also includes landing Westbrook in year 2 and Harden in year 3. Not just having good picks but absolutely nailing them.

i can understand arguments against Trae but not when it’s followed by a harden suggestion

I've brought up Shaq-to-MIA many times as a trade possibility. O'Neal is a GOAT candidate who at the time of that trade was at the tail end of his prime. I'm in favor of the Spurs making that kind of trade. A Young trade is basically the opposite of that. The closest trade to that would be a Curry trade. Shaq also cost basically nothing because no one liked draft picks back then.

Harden for cap space and Trae for multiple picks are very different circumstances. I don't want Harden, but it seems like a short-term accerlative move the Spurs could make while holding their assets for a better opportunity. Paul is similar but with a lower ceiling and would probably still cost at least one first.

[The Truth #6]

Shaq and Durant are on another level. Kyrie, Westbrook, and Harden have more talent (than Trae) but are headaches/cancers/coach killers, so then the question is if Trae really is a cancer or not.

[KobesAchilles]

I've brought up Shaq-to-MIA many times as a trade possibility. O'Neal is a GOAT candidate who at the time of that trade was at the tail end of his prime. I'm in favor of the Spurs making that kind of trade. A Young trade is basically the opposite of that. The closest trade to that would be a Curry trade. Shaq also cost basically nothing because no one liked draft picks back then.

Harden for cap space and Trae for multiple picks are very different circumstances. I don't want Harden, but it seems like a short-term accerlative move the Spurs could make while holding their assets for a better opportunity. Paul is similar but with a lower ceiling and would probably still cost at least one first.
Funny enough I also would like Harden. He is looking for one last pay day and if the Clippers flame out then he won’t get it over there. I think Harden provides a lot that would help us on the team. And unlike Embiid, Victor is clutch and doesn’t shy away from the moment. Harden and Embiid worked very well together. Hard to say that Vic and Harden wouldn’t work. A trade for Marcus Smart would be nice too to offset Hardens porous defense. This is actually more manageable and lets us keep all our picks that everyone here is sure that are going to be all stars.

Harden on a 3 year 120 million (team option 3rd year) isn’t a bad idea.

[scott]

Like I said above, why do we need to get Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft? Getting that second star that is going to sidekick Wemby for years to come is kinda of a big deal. I know some people might think that if Trae doesn't pan out, they can just re-direct and get rid of him quite easily, but I don't know how realistic that would be. In getting Young, you're giving up, at least, 4 unprotected first round picks and a big ass contract. Pivoting from that won't be as easy as some of you might think.

Making a move for Trae that ends up proving to be not good enough to trully contend for championships might end up costing us Wembanyama. I don't know why we should be in any rush to make that decision and settle for, arguably, the most flawed "star" in the entire league, tbh.

Apologies if this has already been answered (I'm a few pages behind), but one potential answer to this question (and I don't think there is an absolutely answer either way... it's all just shades of preference) is that in 2025, most of the unnatural draft assets you have convey*, at which time you'll either need to trade them or use them. If you wait until after the 25 draft to decide that you need to go out and acquire Wemby's co-star, you'll have a far depleted war chest by which to do it.

*Of course there is a huge asterisks! Things change if those picks don't convey, but each year a pick does not convey it looses some of its inherent value, which is a whole different topic... but anyway, assuming they all convey on time, that would be the argument.

[scott]

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty fucking obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

Still a few pages to catch up on, but I'm glad someone said this.

We might be able to pick someone better than an All-NBA guard out of this collection of raw 19-year olds that enter the draft every year... or maybe we'll get RJ Barrett or Jalil Okafor or Enes Freedom or OJ Mayo or Dragan Bender or Cody Zeller or Dion Waiters of Tristan Thompson or Wesley Johnson or Isaac Okoro or Kris Dunn or Mario Hezonja or Dante Exum of Alex Len or Thomas Robinson or Shelden Williams. And that's if we have multiple 3-5 picks, where all those guys were drafted.

[scott]

I can't wait for us to acquire Trae simply so we can stop hearing about how he sucks in the "all other NBA players suck" kind of way this forum does, and instead hear about how he sucks in the "all our players suck" kind of way this forum does.

[scott]

There are two critically overlooked scenarios in Atlanta's range of outcomes.

It is agreed that is not in Atlanta's best interest to trade Trae to another team in exchange for future draft capital and they are highly unlikely to do this. However this does not mean that Atlanta's only options are to trade him to us at a bargain, or be stuck on teh treadmill.

Atlanta can also:

1) Trade Trae for players they perceive will improve their team. It is reasonable to believe that part of Atlanta's problem is structural: playing Trae and DJM together. For that reason, they may be able to put together a package that gets them pieces that assemble a more cohesive team.
2) Keep Trae and actively try to improve. This option seems to get dismissed out of hand, and with that team's track record maybe that's valid... but it's entirely within the range of outcomes that Atlanta makes some other moves that make them a better team, and deliver to us Pick #19 in 2025, for example. Sound crazy? That's only a 8 game improvement versus where they are right now at this point in the season. They are closer to that, then they are to falling to 5th (worst record; 10 games)

[timtonymanu]

Pretentious spurs fans wanting Wagner over young. Lol.

[mo7888]

There are two critically overlooked scenarios in Atlanta's range of outcomes.

It is agreed that is not in Atlanta's best interest to trade Trae to another team in exchange for future draft capital and they are highly unlikely to do this. However this does not mean that Atlanta's only options are to trade him to us at a bargain, or be stuck on teh treadmill.

Atlanta can also:

1) Trade Trae for players they perceive will improve their team. It is reasonable to believe that part of Atlanta's problem is structural: playing Trae and DJM together. For that reason, they may be able to put together a package that gets them pieces that assemble a more cohesive team.
2) Keep Trae and actively try to improve. This option seems to get dismissed out of hand, and with that team's track record maybe that's valid... but it's entirely within the range of outcomes that Atlanta makes some other moves that make them a better team, and deliver to us Pick #19 in 2025, for example. Sound crazy? That's only a 8 game improvement versus where they are right now at this point in the season. They are closer to that, then they are to falling to 5th (worst record; 10 games)

I think #1 is a real option for Atl and a worse case scenario for us. If they go this route they are looking mostly at complimentary players coming back. That may be enough to get them to a top 6 seed in the east. If say, NJ offered CJ + MB pairing those with DJ will lift their floor. It's something to consider..

I dismisses #2 myself. I don't see where they have any assets to improve outside of Trae. DJ will bring something, but mostly i think it'll be low draft picks from a contender.

[Chinook]

There are two critically overlooked scenarios in Atlanta's range of outcomes.

It is agreed that is not in Atlanta's best interest to trade Trae to another team in exchange for future draft capital and they are highly unlikely to do this. However this does not mean that Atlanta's only options are to trade him to us at a bargain, or be stuck on teh treadmill.

Atlanta can also:

1) Trade Trae for players they perceive will improve their team. It is reasonable to believe that part of Atlanta's problem is structural: playing Trae and DJM together. For that reason, they may be able to put together a package that gets them pieces that assemble a more cohesive team.
2) Keep Trae and actively try to improve. This option seems to get dismissed out of hand, and with that team's track record maybe that's valid... but it's entirely within the range of outcomes that Atlanta makes some other moves that make them a better team, and deliver to us Pick #19 in 2025, for example. Sound crazy? That's only a 8 game improvement versus where they are right now at this point in the season. They are closer to that, then they are to falling to 5th (worst record; 10 games)

Number 1 is a possibility if the Hawks fall in love with Murray. I mentioned before something like Vassell and Keldon could be the ballast for the Spurs, though in that case the pick part would be lighter.

Number 2 is what I think happens this year. That's what they seemed to be trying to do with a Murray trade, and you could argue the Young rumors serve mostly to boost DJM's value. If the Spurs are comfortable with a DJM trade, the two sides could probably figure something out more readily since ATL wouldn't be tanking. I know Mo dismisses it, but getting a guaranteed pick in 2025 and 2027 (by turning the picks into swaps) would allow the Hawks to go all-in on a trade, and they might be able to cobble together some cap room depending on how it's structured.

Something like Murray and the Sacramento pick for Graham, Wesley/Branham, the Charlotte pick and the conversion the 2025 and 2027 picks into swaps. If the Toronto pick rolls over, that means the Spurs have two firsts in 2024, two protected firsts in 2025 and "double picks" for 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 and 2030. They retain those future years of upside without having to worry about roster spots.

(In case anyone is wondering, Graham's guaranteed salary and the young guard should be enough outgoing salary to allow the Spurs to take Murray into cap space, preserving Johnson and Collins for another trade while giving the Hawks max cap savings.)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol The Hawks are going to try to improve their 20 win team without any draft picks for 3 years but the 10thish pick in this shitty draft? You think that is the likely conclusion they will come to?

[mo7888]

Number 1 is a possibility if the Hawks fall in love with Murray. I mentioned before something like Vassell and Keldon could be the ballast for the Spurs, though in that case the pick part would be lighter.

Number 2 is what I think happens this year. That's what they seemed to be trying to do with a Murray trade, and you could argue the Young rumors serve mostly to boost DJM's value. If the Spurs are comfortable with a DJM trade, the two sides could probably figure something out more readily since ATL wouldn't be tanking. I know Mo dismisses it, but getting a guaranteed pick in 2025 and 2027 (by turning the picks into swaps) would allow the Hawks to go all-in on a trade, and they might be able to cobble together some cap room depending on how it's structured.

Something like Murray and the Sacramento pick for Graham, Wesley/Branham, the Charlotte pick and the conversion the 2025 and 2027 picks into swaps. If the Toronto pick rolls over, that means the Spurs have two firsts in 2024, two protected firsts in 2025 and "double picks" for 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 and 2030. They retain those future years of upside without having to worry about roster spots.

(In case anyone is wondering, Graham's guaranteed salary and the young guard should be enough outgoing salary to allow the Spurs to take Murray into cap space, preserving Johnson and Collins for another trade while giving the Hawks max cap savings.)

Interesting... I wasn't really considering DJ as a target for us. I wouldn’t hate that...

[z0sa]

Did I just read Wagner over Trae Young? Just, what? People act Trae Young has never even won a playoff game or something. Like he's not one of the most impactful players in today's game.

He's not a champion - yet. He's also not some perennial loser.

None of the guys playing on this team are former/multiple time champs anymore, folks. Just sayin'.

[Chinook]

Interesting... I wasn't really considering DJ as a target for us. I wouldn’t hate that...

I don't know how serious the Spurs were about either player, but the rumors are they talked to the Hawks about both. I don't love Murray for numerous reasons, but his small contract means the Spurs could add him to their core rather than disrupt to core to add Young. If they believe in the core, that's a benefit, and they preserve the ability to make other trades. Murray theoretical versatility means they could draft a player like Reed Sheppard without feeling like they're capping him as a backup PG. Theoretically he'd a strong fit with Murray in a way that he's not with Young.

[mo7888]

I don't know how serious the Spurs were about either player, but the rumors are they talked to the Hawks about both. I don't love Murray for numerous reasons, but his small contract means the Spurs could add him to their core rather than disrupt to core to add Young. If they believe in the core, that's a benefit, and they preserve the ability to make other trades. Murray theoretical versatility means they could draft a player like Reed Sheppard without feeling like they're capping him as a backup PG. Theoretically he'd a strong fit with Murray in a way that he's not with Young.

Yup... Just the smaller price tag (both in terms of $ and picks) makes the path to adding a couple other guys (Naz, Okoro, Herb, or Avdija) a lot more easy to invision. It also gives a path to having enough salaries to cobble together if someone we truly covet comes available in the next couple years.

[TD 21]

Something like Murray and the Sacramento pick for Graham, Wesley/Branham, the Charlotte pick and the conversion the 2025 and 2027 picks into swaps. If the Toronto pick rolls over, that means the Spurs have two firsts in 2024, two protected firsts in 2025 and "double picks" for 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 and 2030. They retain those future years of upside without having to worry about roster spots.

That's similar to what I'd peg a Spurs offer for Murray at: Graham, Craptors 1st (especially if it's '24, since Walter seems an ideal theoretical fit next to Young), Hornets 1st and '27 Hawks 1st.

I don't know that the Hawks would do the Kings 1st. I'm thinking Griffin is more likely.

[Chinook]

That's similar to what I'd peg a Murray to Spurs trade at: Graham, Craptors 1st (especially if it's '24, since Walter seems an ideal theoretical fit next to Young), Hornets 1st and '27 Hawks 1st.

I don't know that the Hawks would do the Kings 1st. I'm thinking Griffin is more likely.

Depends on if the Spurs like the Kings pick or Griffin, but I can imagine the Spurs wouldn't want a prospect halfway through their rookie deal. This is a more costly trade than the one I proposed, though who knows where the teams' lines are. It might be more realistic. One thing to note, though, is that Branham or Wesley might have to be in the deal to make the salaries work. I don't have that post that Bruno made, but the Spurs are probably around $20 Million in realistic cap space, and with DJM's salary being at $25 Million before the trade kicker, the Spurs would need to shed salary to make the deal work. Even so, ATL is basically getting Murray's salary off the books for almost complete cap space, which should have a lot of value to a team looking to retool around Young and Johnson. If they were trying to get more picks, I'd probably want the Spurs to add matching salary to preserve their own cap space for a different deal.

[offset formation]

Has someone explained to Wemby that the 2027 Atlanta pick is only 3 years away from being 3 years away from stardom?

We have to wait and develop Collins, Branham, and Champagnie

Those Atlanta picks should be the ones that make us a decadal dynasty by extending the talent around Wemby to new heights. Would be Wemby's 7th or 8th year when we likely need some talent infusion. I get your point but those picks could be pure fucking gold.

[CorrectCrusader]

Trae Young has made it as far as Luka has in the playoffs

[Robz4000]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?

[KobesAchilles]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?
Trade it

[Robz4000]

Trade it

For picks or player(s)?

[spurs1990]

Haven’t watched San Antonio play this year but from highlights looks they rely on their last five draft picks as the closing five:

2019 - Johnson
2020 - Vassell
2021 - Jones
2022 - Sohan
2023 - Webanyama

If that’s indeed the case then good track record for what they can do in June. Two of those years their top picks were prematurely released for non-bball related causes.

[sfernald]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?

Draft Sarr. Will be as close as you can get to being the next KG.

[Spursfanfromafar]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?

Get Risacher and Sheppard with the Toronto pick at 7/8. Check Brooklyn's appetite on a trade for Mikal Bridges (good possibility) and likewise with the Jazz for Markkanen (next to impossible in my view). And if either of these two are available, haggle hard for one of the picks as a trade commodity. If neither work.. try the FA market to pick up a marquee FA ..like Paul George and Tyus Jones. And be active on trades.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Draft Sarr. Will be as close as you can get to being the next KG.

Athletically maybe but skiillwise he is more Howard than KG.

[JPB]

Haven’t watched San Antonio play this year but from highlights looks they rely on their last five draft picks as the closing five:

2019 - Johnson
2020 - Vassell
2021 - Jones
2022 - Sohan
2023 - Webanyama

If that’s indeed the case then good track record for what they can do in June. Two of those years their top picks were prematurely released for non-bball related causes.

Yeah, you definitely don't watch the games (and their record).

That team is terrible, spurs are going nowhere in the NBA with that closing 5 and most of these guys won't be around (or on the bench) in a Wemby lead, contending spurs team...

Penis or not, Primo would have been a bust and was a bad reach at 12, considering the players you could have picked instead... If he was that good, spurs wouldn't have cut him no matter what. He's a G leaguer now who appeared in one game ( a blow out Clippers win) this season...

- Sochan at 9 is OK in what was retrospectively a weak draft past the top 3 (despite a lot of hype) but h's not a starter in a contender.

- I guess Vassel is OK at 11 but guys like Tyrese Maxey or Haliburton were available (imagine them with Wemby).

- Sammich at 19 was a very bad pick.

- Branham and Wesley at 20 and 25 is what you mostly get there year in, year out, 3rd stringers if you're lucky, or guys who will be out of the league after their rookie ciontract most of the time, with the occasional exception (like Maxey or Keldon).
-Keldon at 29 is pretty good.

End of story, besides Wemby (dude!) and maybe Vassel as a role player, spurs didn't draft any starter in this league in the lottery in the last five years, and two of their top 20 picks were gone and basically out of the NBA before two years. And they only "scored" once (Keldon) in the 20-30 earea out of 3 picks.

Spurs drafting track record is nothing ro rely on to determine that's the main or way they should go to build on ciontender, wich would be criminal with Wemby in. Go watch these past 5 years final draft lists and you'll be like "who or where the hell are all these guys" for 80% of the picks.

[RC_Drunkford]

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

you somehow seem to think that it's Trae's fault why the Hawks are so bad. Well guess what: DeAndre Hunter became one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Dejounte Murray too. Clint Capela as well. The Hawks main problem is interior defense cause Capela ain't blocking anything. Ask any Hawks fan about this and they will tell you that Trae Young actually improved by a lot on defense this season.

You also gotta consider that we are starting Tre Jones at PG and still have a top 5 defense with Wemby on the floor. You simply need a great 3-and-D SF to replace Champagnie and the defense should be fine even with Young on the floor.

[r0drig0lac]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?

Sarr

[Raven]

you somehow seem to think that it's Trae's fault why the Hawks are so bad. Well guess what: DeAndre Hunter became one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Dejounte Murray too. Clint Capela as well. The Hawks main problem is interior defense cause Capela ain't blocking anything. Ask any Hawks fan about this and they will tell you that Trae Young actually improved by a lot on defense this season.

You also gotta consider that we are starting Tre Jones at PG and still have a top 5 defense with Wemby on the floor. You simply need a great 3-and-D SF to replace Champagnie and the defense should be fine even with Young on the floor.

i find that hard to believe

[SupremeGuy]

It looks like Tre, Vassell, and Cedi actually play hard every game. Obviously Wemby.

Everyone else that has gotten pt has kind of sucked. Sochan has turned it around though.

Trading Keldon and some picks for anyone worth a damn would be a double bonus.

[The Truth #6]

Overall I'm very curious to see if the Spurs stay locked in with their 5 year Plan, not sure what that is exactly, or if they've discussed being flexible to adapt along the way.

As fans we hear lots of things. "See what we have this year." "5 Year Plan."

I hope we get the Toronto pick because I don't expect big changes. But if the team really is shocked that the supporting cast isn't that good, and that a power forward can't immediately play point guard then maybe they change at least a little bit.

This is new territory, the national media demanding improvements. The FO hate attention. Anyway. We'll see.

[Dex]

Overall I'm very curious to see if the Spurs stay locked in with their 5 year Plan, not sure what that is exactly, or if they've discussed being flexible to adapt along the way.

As fans we hear lots of things. "See what we have this year." "5 Year Plan."

I hope we get the Toronto pick because I don't expect big changes. But if the team really is shocked that the supporting cast isn't that good, and that a power forward can't immediately play point guard then maybe they change at least a little bit.

This is new territory, the national media demanding improvements. The FO hate attention. Anyway. We'll see.

I don't think the Spurs need to be expected to contend next year, and to do so is probably putting the cart before the horse.

Spurs just need to make changes to show enough improvement to convince Wemby we are on the right track. Even being near .500 or possibly in the play-in convo should do that.

There is a big difference, morale-wise, between winning 15 games a year versus 40.

[Mr. Body]

Those Atlanta picks should be the ones that make us a decadal dynasty by extending the talent around Wemby to new heights. Would be Wemby's 7th or 8th year when we likely need some talent infusion. I get your point but those picks could be pure fucking gold.

Yep. It's the same logic as wanting to trade for a 28 year old Mikal Bridges. Yes, it helps for a few years, then doesn't.

The team is thinking in terms of more than a decade, the fanbase is wanting to eat all the seed corn.

[LeBowen]

i find that hard to believe

And that's the exact problem with most NBA fans.
It's a 30 team league and it's more or less impossible to follow all the teams unless it's your job.
People also have a hard time accepting that players can change.
Good players decline, flawed players work on their game.

It's not about you or me believing something, it's about facts that are easy to see if you watch Hawks games or even look at the advanced stats.
(I'm not going to do the research for you, google is free to use.)

[TD 21]

Get Risacher and Sheppard with the Toronto pick at 7/8. Check Brooklyn's appetite on a trade for Mikal Bridges (good possibility) and likewise with the Jazz for Markkanen (next to impossible in my view). And if either of these two are available, haggle hard for one of the picks as a trade commodity. If neither work.. try the FA market to pick up a marquee FA ..like Paul George and Tyus Jones. And be active on trades.

I've said as much before, though in the case of Bridges the Nets have him as "untouchable" because they believe, in conjunction with their market, that as a well liked malleable, elite role player, he'll help attract the next star to them.


you somehow seem to think that it's Trae's fault why the Hawks are so bad. Well guess what: DeAndre Hunter became one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Dejounte Murray too. Clint Capela as well. The Hawks main problem is interior defense cause Capela ain't blocking anything. Ask any Hawks fan about this and they will tell you that Trae Young actually improved by a lot on defense this season.

You also gotta consider that we are starting Tre Jones at PG and still have a top 5 defense with Wemby on the floor. You simply need a great 3-and-D SF to replace Champagnie and the defense should be fine even with Young on the floor.

To be fair to the detractors, Young's defense would be more of an issue in the playoffs when top p-n-r ball handlers will play target him more frequently, playing seek and destroy to a greater degree.



Depends on if the Spurs like the Kings pick or Griffin, but I can imagine the Spurs wouldn't want a prospect halfway through their rookie deal. This is a more costly trade than the one I proposed, though who knows where the teams' lines are. It might be more realistic. One thing to note, though, is that Branham or Wesley might have to be in the deal to make the salaries work. I don't have that post that Bruno made, but the Spurs are probably around $20 Million in realistic cap space, and with DJM's salary being at $25 Million before the trade kicker, the Spurs would need to shed salary to make the deal work. Even so, ATL is basically getting Murray's salary off the books for almost complete cap space, which should have a lot of value to a team looking to retool around Young and Johnson. If they were trying to get more picks, I'd probably want the Spurs to add matching salary to preserve their own cap space for a different deal.

I would think the Spurs would prefer the Kings pick.

Your proposal could be more realistic from the Hawks perspective because it nets them two of their three picks back, but on the other hand mine is a bird in the hand type scenario where they theoretically get more immediate help which they could use in a retain Young scenario.

Branham or Wesley being included as mostly salary filler is definitely possible if not probable.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Overall I'm very curious to see if the Spurs stay locked in with their 5 year Plan, not sure what that is exactly, or if they've discussed being flexible to adapt along the way.

As fans we hear lots of things. "See what we have this year." "5 Year Plan."

I hope we get the Toronto pick because I don't expect big changes. But if the team really is shocked that the supporting cast isn't that good, and that a power forward can't immediately play point guard then maybe they change at least a little bit.

This is new territory, the national media demanding improvements. The FO hate attention. Anyway. We'll see.

Given that they are not having Wemby or really anyone focus on spots and routine. He still basically lets them play out the sets without the slightest micromanagement. After the year I expect they will study hat they have build a structure for Wemby to build on and hone that in. I do not know if the plan had Wemby being a perennial all star and DPoY candidate after year 1.

[ginobilized]

There are so many perspectives on how this roster gets rebuilt.One way I've been pondering is that the only goal is to make DV our 3rd best player asap. When he is our 4th best player, we will be lethal.
Trades, free agents and the draft, of course are the only options. At least by next season, I hope that Vassell is 2a or 2b. There's a LONG way to go to rebuild this roster.

By positions of need, it's toss-up between PG and SF in my mind. Draft the best player available and roll the dice seems appropriate.
I see next season as a shortening of the leash on all the auxiliary guys: Collins, JC, Keldon, Wesley, Branham and whoever is on the roster and not named Wemby, Vassell or Sochan.
The other question that is HUGE is what position does Wemby play? That will determine so much of how we rebuild. The move to center seems inarguable this year. It will be interesting if that remains the approach.
Adding another big that can rebound and pound the paint, yet, is nimble enough to guard PF seems inevitable in creating a contender. Naz Reid is intriguing for this role (or as backup center.) That moves Sochan to SF and leaves us needing that starting PG.
If Wemby stays at center, we need upgrades at SF and a PG sooner than later.

The rumors that Pop is frustrated with the roster build will probably become apparent by the draft. Wemby is probably about where they projected him to be in year 3, ideally. I've never seen a rookie learn this fast, adapt and also have as deep a bag offensively. That's a great problem to have, but, requires substantial readjusting. The thing that I think Pop is really good at is knowing people. My bet is he will find some better pieces for the roster AND for the FO. Just a hunch that there might be some quiet movement among the staff FO.

[spurs1990]

Golden state down a measley 56 points.
Wembanyama should know by now wins are difficult to.come by
https://i.ibb.co/gmVdHRG/IMG-0792.png

[Knoxxx]

Mods please delete this stupid focking thread!

[NASpurs]

Mods please delete this stupid focking thread!

Why? They were 1-12 before these last two wins :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why? They were 1-12 before these last two wins :lol

It's fun to see how the worm turns.

[NASpurs]

It's fun to see how the worm turns.

Because a couple of games a season makes? Try again buddy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Because a couple of games a season makes? Try again buddy.

that phrase speaks to how people are taking things not how things really are.

[Raven]

And that's the exact problem with most NBA fans.
It's a 30 team league and it's more or less impossible to follow all the teams unless it's your job.
People also have a hard time accepting that players can change.
Good players decline, flawed players work on their game.

It's not about you or me believing something, it's about facts that are easy to see if you watch Hawks games or even look at the advanced stats.
(I'm not going to do the research for you, google is free to use.)

sure. But it is a hard argument to make, and no i am not going to look at advanced stats when i know he's a bum and the team result provides no reason to reassess the argument. If we ever actually trade for him, i'l reconsider it.

[MultiTroll]

To change the convo up a bit, let's say the Spurs hit the jackpot again and get the first overall pick. What do you do with it?
Lets see what develops with other NBA teams after the playoffs.
Is there a super disappointing 1st round out that might have a team looking to move a player / anther NBA prima donna pouting their way out. Not sure the Spurs want to the latter no matter what their name is. But lets say Cleveland bombs and Mitchel and Cleveland agree on friendly terms to part. Would entertain.

Do not take Dillingham from Kentucky. Of course they won't take him #1 i mean don't trade the pick for 2 players and have Dill Pickle from Kentucky be one of them.

[Proxy]

team is gonna have quite the attitude with wemby, sochan, and trae

[Mr. Body]

team is gonna have quite the attitude with wemby, sochan, and trae

Like, when they play Atlanta or LA?

[jeebus]

Five pages in a thread talking about a fat fuck who's had maybe 2 decent scoops in 20 years of licking Lebron's balloon knot.

[Big Empty]

I still wouldn't panick in the offseason and do a Trae Young trade, tbh. I would make the two picks, try to sign a couple of veteran free agents and see how the team looks.

If they are as much ass as this season by the midway point... I would just tank for Cooper Flagg and THEN throw the kitchen sink out the window with a Trae Young type trade.

If they, on the other hand, improve to a, let's say, a borderline play-in team, then it's time to assess and look where the holes are and be agressive in the next offseason to improve in those areas (could involve the Trae trade).

tl; dr: I would still not panick this offseason with a Trae Young type trade.
100% play in is the goal next year with our two new top 10 draft picks. Then two years from now i expect the Spurs to atleast be a first round playoff team. A deep run 3 years from now and then Wemby gets his first title 4 years from now at 24 years old & the Spurs start a new dynasty. Thats a realistic timeline.

[Pauleta14]

Wemby would have to miss half of the season for the Spurs to finish bottom 10 next season guys...

[John B]

If you’re serious about your basketball career, it would be a dream come true to play with a generational talent like Wemby. Branham, Wesley, Sochan, Barlow, Sidy will all improve this off-season. I expect nothing less from Keldon and Vassell and Tre but them too will improve on whatever facet especially defense. Spurs have potentially 4 rookies coming plus possibly trading/signing for veteran help. You don’t want to be the one missing the opportunity.

[R. DeMurre]

Asking what PG we should target rather than Trae is the wrong question in my opinion. Trae is making max contract money-- that's the central issue, a flawed player making so much that it severely limits the acquisition of other impact players-- so the question should be what players the Spurs can get for an get for >$40mil/year.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Asking what PG we should target rather than Trae is the wrong question in my opinion. Trae is making max contract money-- that's the central issue, a flawed player making so much that it severely limits the acquisition of other impact players-- so the question should be what players the Spurs can get for an get for >$40mil/year.

Of the players making over 40 mil in 24/25 the ones who could possibly be realistic targets are Beal, Vanvleet and Lavine. Oh and Ben Simmons :lmao

Maybe Towns, who'll make 50 mil next year, but highly unlikely. Maybe Gobert but unlikely too.

Not great. I'm not a Trae fan but you could easily argue he'd be the best out of this group. Going down the list for players making 30+ million doesn't make it better either.

[onechance87]

Of the players making over 40 mil in 24/25 the ones who could possibly be realistic targets are Beal, Vanvleet and Lavine. Oh and Ben Simmons :lmao

Maybe Towns, who'll make 50 mil next year, but highly unlikely. Maybe Gobert but unlikely too.

Not great. I'm not a Trae fan but you could easily argue he'd be the best out of this group. Going down the list for players making 30+ million doesn't make it better either.

should we go back to targeting murray.I would like for us to always have a good pg to make things easier for wemby.

[T Park]

"he wants to be better than 13 wins next year"

no shit?

[itzsoweezee]

Haven’t watched San Antonio play this year but from highlights looks they rely on their last five draft picks as the closing five:

2019 - Johnson
2020 - Vassell
2021 - Jones
2022 - Sohan
2023 - Webanyama

If that’s indeed the case then good track record for what they can do in June. Two of those years their top picks were prematurely released for non-bball related causes.

Two games does not make a good track record. We have more than a whole season of a sample size.

[TD 21]

NBA TODAY | "Victor Wembanyama is the new face of the NBA" - Perk on Spurs dominate Pacers 117-105 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3Q-Nzb6C0)

BSPN is going overboard on this narrative now. I get it, they want the future best player/face of the league on at minimum a relevant team now and preferably in a glamor market eventually, but they're all acting like how dare the Spurs think they could re-build and they'll be consequences if they don't significantly improve this off season.

They're also ignoring that they're well positioned to do so if they so choose.



Of the players making over 40 mil in 24/25 the ones who could possibly be realistic targets are Beal, Vanvleet and Lavine. Oh and Ben Simmons :lmao

Maybe Towns, who'll make 50 mil next year, but highly unlikely. Maybe Gobert but unlikely too.

Not great. I'm not a Trae fan but you could easily argue he'd be the best out of this group. Going down the list for players making 30+ million doesn't make it better either.

This is what I keep coming back to. Of course, if you had your druthers you wouldn't pick him; but that's not how this works.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Two games does not make a good track record. We have more than a whole season of a sample size.

finishing the season strong would be nice right?

[rjv]

NBA TODAY | "Victor Wembanyama is the new face of the NBA" - Perk on Spurs dominate Pacers 117-105 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3Q-Nzb6C0)

BSPN is going overboard on this narrative now. I get it, they want the future best player/face of the league on at minimum a relevant team now and preferably in a glamor market eventually, but they're all acting like how dare the Spurs think they could re-build and they'll be consequences if they don't significantly improve this off season.

They're also ignoring that they're well positioned to do so if they so choose.


the cynic is me is starting to get that vibe of ESPN tampering. only Windhordst has brought up the comparison to a team like the Rockets, who spent all this money last year and have nothing to show for it. and none of them even grade the roster outside of vassell, who Zach Lowe is big on.

to be fair, the TNT crew did the same, with the exception of charles. and none of them could even pronounce Vasell correctly.

[scott]

Have any of these national media guys ever uttered another team in regard to Wemby? I haven't heard it. Someone claimed Windhorst said "Wemby would be a perfect fit in LA" and then pointed to an article where no such thing was ever said (and, let's face it, Wemby would be a perfect fit on any team).

National media types questioning the Front Office is just the cost of the spotlight. Look at The Yankees or Cowboys in any given year (Teams that actually haven't done anything of late to deserve the attention). This is the kind of scrutiny that occurs in big markets every year. When they talk about "not such if so-and-so could handle the New York/wherever media" - this is what they are talking about. Non-stop scrutiny and analysis, not just every couple of weeks but after EVERY SINGLE GAME. The Local Spurs media doesn't do that, in part because the Spurs don't like it and you'll lose access (at least according to friend of mine who is a former local TV Sports director who works in another market now).

The talking heads discussing the way the Spurs have built around Wemby is the easiest, no-brainer topic for them to tackle... and they are seeing that Wemby is going to be the face, so they need reasons to talk about him. This is just the way to take it out of the highlight shows and into the talking-head shows.

[rjv]

what's most annoying is the lack of awareness. i get it with the TNT crew, they admit that they're likely more an entertainment show than a basketball one, but it's revealing when these talking heads don't have the sort of knowledge of team rosters that they should.

[slick'81]

We all know nobody wants wemby in San Antonio outside of us fans and hopefully Vic

[CGD]

NBA TODAY | "Victor Wembanyama is the new face of the NBA" - Perk on Spurs dominate Pacers 117-105 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3Q-Nzb6C0)

BSPN is going overboard on this narrative now. I get it, they want the future best player/face of the league on at minimum a relevant team now and preferably in a glamor market eventually, but they're all acting like how dare the Spurs think they could re-build and they'll be consequences if they don't significantly improve this off season.

They're also ignoring that they're well positioned to do so if they so choose.




This is what I keep coming back to. Of course, if you had your druthers you wouldn't pick him; but that's not how this works.

Danny Green and his sensible takes will get him no future invites from smokeshow Malika Andrews

[TD 21]

National media types questioning the Front Office is just the cost of the spotlight. Non-stop scrutiny and analysis, not just every couple of weeks but after EVERY SINGLE GAME. The Local Spurs media doesn't do that, in part because the Spurs don't like it and you'll lose access (at least according to friend of mine who is a former local TV Sports director who works in another market now).

The talking heads discussing the way the Spurs have built around Wemby is the easiest, no-brainer topic for them to tackle... and they are seeing that Wemby is going to be the face, so they need reasons to talk about him. This is just the way to take it out of the highlight shows and into the talking-head shows.

This isn't questioning though, it's clearly a planned, all out agenda driven (BSPN's specialty) assault and as usual their dislike for the Spurs (especially Pop) is shining through.

It's as if they're to publicly pressure the organization into making a "splash", acting like the Spurs owe it to them to have him be on a relevant team by next season.

Anything less and they'll be turning up the heat even more.

[slick'81]

no
This isn't questioning though, it's clearly a planned, all out agenda driven (BSPN's specialty) assault and as usual their dislike for the Spurs (especially Pop) is shining through.

It's as if they're to publicly pressure the organization into making a "splash", acting like the Spurs owe it to them to have him be on a relevant team by next season.

Anything less and they'll be turning up the heat even more.


theyd love another kawhi situation but it ain't happening here

[CGD]

We all know nobody wants wemby in San Antonio outside of us fans and hopefully Vic

The Spurs would be so wise to deepen the connection to France making Wemby truly an international phenomenon. Try to be like Manchester United: super meh city but somehow everyone in the world reps them because they have (had?) the best players

[Chinook]

I do think the media is trying to manufacture a feedback loop of self-sustaining discontent. It's disrespectful to other players to make it seem like Victor has some special level of competitiveness no other players can reach and that means he can't not be on a contender for a couple of years. Does Brandon Miller not want to win? Was Banchero happy to lose? Victor clearly enjoys winning and may well have some legacy complex where he's worried about being labeled a loser by randos. That doesn't mean he expects to be on a contender immediately or that such a belief is reasonable. If that were the case, he wouldn't be so giddy after these last two games. I think insofar as he might have a complex, it wouldn't be served by jumping ship. I think he wants to win with this team. Not with all 17 other players unconditionally. I think he'd welcome another star. But I don't think he has the appetite to pull a Durant or even Lebron.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Victor lobbies for them to trade for a star ASAP, but I feel more confident that he's not a flight risk now that I did before this thread came out.

[itzsoweezee]

finishing the season strong would be nice right?

Sure, but the front office should not let the last few weeks cloud the reality of the situation regarding this roster

[Dejounte]

The Spurs would be so wise to deepen the connection to France making Wemby truly an international phenomenon. Try to be like Manchester United: super meh city but somehow everyone in the world reps them because they have (had?) the best players

This is exactly what Holt is doing

[Pauleta14]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ? :lol

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

[z0sa]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ? :lol

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

Victor when asked what he thought about being considered the best prospect of all time said that he was more interested in becoming the best of everything all time.

[vy65]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

1740636193371660292

[Pauleta14]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

[exstatic]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

The media ignored Tim,because Tim basically ignored them. Wemby interacts with them at a level that no Spur really ever has, and even as a rookie on a losing team, he’s being fawned over and lionized.

[Cry Havoc]

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 titles with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 titles with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

They want to skip the step of having to do something with Vassell given a defensive minus PG.

[Seventyniner]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 titles with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

Tony wasn't an elite playmaker either.

Young's strength of passing ability, particularly lobs to bigs, meshes perfectly with Wemby, and Wemby is also the perfect counterpart to Young's biggest weakness (defense). The two of them can easily be more than the sum of the parts.

[DAF86]

Wemby strikes me as an old soul. He has a strict rutine, he reads, he goes to bed early, he doesn't interact much in social media, he was raging mad that Edwards didn't take the Skills challenge seriously. As a kid with an old man's mindset, I think he might embrace the "one team for life" mantra that old players used to have. He also knows that players that ask for trades to try to ring chase take a bit of a legacy hit, and he seems to take his legacy very seriously. If the Spurs don't fuck up, I see Wemby being a Spur for life.

[DAF86]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 titles with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

Nobody is asking for a defensive PG, just not a liability, which Young pretty much is. Tony was never a liability on D, in fact, pretty far from it.

[Cry Havoc]

Nobody is asking for a defensive PG, just not a liability, which Young pretty much is. Tony was never a liability on D, in fact, pretty far from it.

Okay, give me a list of PGs that are not liabilities on defense that are also >B+ playmakers? There are what, 3, in the entire league? All of whom are essentially untradeable?

Steph Curry has been a liability on defense most of his career and he's arguably the GOAT PG. We won a title with Tony not even being able to bring the ball up to the half court line against playoff defenses.

[DAF86]

Okay, give me a list of PGs that are not liabilities on defense that are also >B+ playmakers? There are what, 3, in the entire league? All of whom are essentially untradeable?

Steph Curry has been a liability on defense most of his career and he's arguably the GOAT PG. We won a title with Tony not even being able to bring the ball up to the half court line against playoff defenses.

Steph Curry being a liability on D is one of the most casual takes in NBA history. In his prime he was an above average defender for the PG position, a playmaker on that end too. Go check the metrics if you don't believe me.

Also, if Trae was anywhere close to Curry on offense, I wouldn't care about his horrific defense, but he isn't. Not even close.

[JeffDuncan]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.
…



We also live in an era where the media is portable. Gear that can be used for professional quality tv work will fit in a single piece of carry on luggage. There’s no longer a need to go to a studio in LA or NY. The studio can come to you, almost anywhere in the world.

Beyond tv, there are people who do excellent youtube videos using a laptop, or even just a cellphone, including some impressive special effects. Things have changed.

Neither Wemby nor anybody else needs to be in LA or NY to do media work that can be broadcast nationwide and worldwide. So as far as media attention, Wemby could do a dozen tv interviews a day from the comfort of his own living room in San Antonio - not that that would be advisable.

[Cry Havoc]

Steph Curry being a liability on D is one of the most casual takes in NBA history. In his prime he was an above average defender for the PG position, a playmaker on that end too. Go check the metrics if you don't believe me.

In his prime, yes, he was decent on D.

Before that? Curry was a sieve, and he was skewered by Warriors fans for being problematic on that end (not that they cared at the end of the day because he was stupidly good, but he definitely gave warriors fans headaches on that end of the floor for years). I live in the Bay Area, I'm surrounded by Dubs fans, they would laugh at you if you said Curry was a good defender for most of his career.


Also, if Trae was anywhere close to Curry on offense, I wouldn't care about his horrific defense, but he isn't. Not even close.

No one is. But I'm still waiting for this list of PGs who are incredible playmakers, elite defensive players, and available for us to have a prayer to get. Heck, skip the "we might be able to obtain them" part, just show me elite PG playmakers that also play decent defense in the NBA?

[DAF86]

In his prime, yes, he was decent on D.

Before that? Curry was a sieve, and he was skewered by Warriors fans for being problematic on that end (not that they cared at the end of the day because he was stupidly good, but he definitely gave warriors fans headaches on that end of the floor for years). I live in the Bay Area, I'm surrounded by Dubs fans, they would laugh at you if you said Curry was a good defender for most of his career.



No one is. But I'm still waiting for this list of PGs who are incredible playmakers, elite defensive players, and available for us to have a prayer to get. Heck, skip the "we might be able to obtain them" part, just show me elite PG playmakers that also play decent defense in the NBA?

What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh. :lol

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-nba-player

Regarding which guards I'd rather have over Trae that might be available at the right price: Mitchell, Garland and even Harden as a stopgap of two or three years (and yes, Harden is a much better defender than Young despite all the memes). Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry could be some other options. If not, I'd rather take my chances drafting someone or waiting to see which options become available next season.

Also, it doesn't necesarilly need to be a PG the perimeter creator we are looking for. It could be a wing and settle for a Derrick White type at the 1 (Sheppard could be an option).

[Chinook]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ? :lol

I'm not a person who beats around the bush. If I was saying Wemby has a legacy complex, I would've just said it. Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose. This whole thing is about his mindset, so don't try to selectively call me out for addressing that speculation. I don't know what Wemby's thinking, but I am accepting Windhorst's reporting and Woj's co-signing and allowing for the emotions folks are assigning to Victor and offering an alternate explanation.


There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

You'll have a hard time convincing posters in this thread that Wemby's thoughts are all that opaque. They're perfectly happy to talk about dejected Wemby's seemed recently over the losses. If that can be admitted, then his elation over the recent wins is just as easy to ascribe. To say he's obviously upset about the losing but then try to hide your hat when it comes to how he feels about winning is not consistent. Posters will also point out that Wemby's actually a pretty open guy and will talk about his motivations freely. Accolades are important to him. That necessarily means he does care about how he's viewed. Is it a "legacy complex"? No idea. Time will tell there. That's why I didn't say that he had one. But is he already thinking about stuff like that to some extent? Yes. That seems clear.


However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.

Players can't change teams in the NBA like they can in other countries. In Europe, players can change teams any time they want so long as there is enough will. In the NBA, his contract is locked in. He'd have to demand a trade, which means subjecting himself to much more scrutiny than simply changing from one mid-level Euro team to another. It would mean him creating negative situations in an effort to get the Spurs to move him to a team that would be better positioned to win after a trade. It's actually a tall order, which is why the threat of him doing that has always been a remote concern.


I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

I have negative interest in talking you out of your prediction for years in the future. I will say though that few of us are worried about Wemby leaving after his second contract. That's both because it's not all that likely with the DPE but more because most of the people who are worried about it are worried he'll leave much earlier than that. If his career path was like Kawhi but without the bullshit, I think a lot of Spurs fans would take the ring and the memories. If he does do that, it'll have nothing to do with whether they rebuilt in year two or went all-in though.

[Ariel]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)
You have to be blind to claim that the media is ignoring / will ignore Wemby, he's going to be the face of the league, and he gets an insane amount of attention already as a rookie on a horrendous team. If the Spurs put together a competent team he'll receive 10x the attention Giannis and Luka get, combined. With that said, I don't like to admit that I have the same fear at heart, that one day Wemby will want to explore new challenges, even if not just for the attention. It also seems to me that the Knicks are built around trying to lure someone like Wemby away, that's what their whole model is built upon, putting together a really good supporting cast waiting for a superstar to join and lead them to a championship. Hopefully the Spurs are a great team for all of his rookie extension and that moment comes as late as possible, but I do believe it will come eventually, even though I hope I'm dead wrong.

[scott]

Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose.

Whereas, I believe the proper interpretation should be: Wemby doesn't want to lose, so he'll go to the front off and partner with them on ideas on how to turn it around together (at least that's more the vibe I get right now). Wemby is extremely mature, and I think mature enough to know how to professionally handle things in the way that are most likely to yield desired results.

I believe what Windhorst and Woj (and Lowe) are saying, but I don't think it's Wemby's team leaking to cause trouble. I bet Wemby has gone directly to the FO with this, and not in a necessarily adversarial way.

(This post not direct towards your thoughts, Chinook, just a reaction to this specific line).

[Pauleta14]

I'm not a person who beats around the bush. If I was saying Wemby has a legacy complex, I would've just said it. Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose. This whole thing is about his mindset, so don't try to selectively call me out for addressing that speculation. I don't know what Wemby's thinking, but I am accepting Windhorst's reporting and Woj's co-signing and allowing for the emotions folks are assigning to Victor and offering an alternate explanation.



You'll have a hard time convincing posters in this thread that Wemby's thoughts are all that opaque. They're perfectly happy to talk about dejected Wemby's seemed recently over the losses. If that can be admitted, then his elation over the recent wins is just as easy to ascribe. To say he's obviously upset about the losing but then try to hide your hat when it comes to how he feels about winning is not consistent. Posters will also point out that Wemby's actually a pretty open guy and will talk about his motivations freely. Accolades are important to him. That necessarily means he does care about how he's viewed. Is it a "legacy complex"? No idea. Time will tell there. That's why I didn't say that he had one. But is he already thinking about stuff like that to some extent? Yes. That seems clear.



Players can't change teams in the NBA like they can in other countries. In Europe, players can change teams any time they want so long as there is enough will. In the NBA, his contract is locked in. He'd have to demand a trade, which means subjecting himself to much more scrutiny than simply changing from one mid-level Euro team to another. It would mean him creating negative situations in an effort to get the Spurs to move him to a team that would be better positioned to win after a trade. It's actually a tall order, which is why the threat of him doing that has always been a remote concern.



I have negative interest in talking you out of your prediction for years in the future. I will say though that few of us are worried about Wemby leaving after his second contract. That's both because it's not all that likely with the DPE but more because most of the people who are worried about it are worried he'll leave much earlier than that. If his career path was like Kawhi but without the bullshit, I think a lot of Spurs fans would take the ring and the memories. If he does do that, it'll have nothing to do with whether they rebuilt in year two or went all-in though.

1st I’m not « calling u out » :lol I’m just exchanging my pov with other ppl who share the same interest in Wemby and the spurs. Why not try to not always take stuff personally?

2nd you did say Wemby « may have a legacy complex »… but whatever it’s not the point I was just teasing u. Relax

3rd I think you’re confusing instant reaction to losses or wins and long term plans in his mind that none of us has access to.
Wemby being opened doesn’t mean he’s transparent which would be stupid to be and he’s far from being an idiot.
i don’t see how enjoying the present process, being occasionally upset or joyful ha anything to do with his long term plans.

4th I’m aware NBA trades aren’t like football (soccer) transfers, thx, but even without conflict if he request a trade after let’s say 7-8y so that Spurs get something in return (I can’t see him leaving at end of contract that’s be dick move/not him), it’s not an absurde scenario if he wants to start a new challenge for ex in NY, closer to Europe with better game time hours and massive media impact…

Lastly I haven’t made any prediction you need to agree or disagree on. Just thinking out loud with a few facts… no need to use other posters’s pov in our exchange

[Pauleta14]

You have to be blind to claim that the media is ignoring / will ignore Wemby, he's going to be the face of the league, and he gets an insane amount of attention already as a rookie on a horrendous team. If the Spurs put together a competent team he'll receive 10x the attention Giannis and Luka get, combined. With that said, I don't like to admit that I have the same fear at heart, that one day Wemby will want to explore new challenges, even if not just for the attention. It also seems to me that the Knicks are built around trying to lure someone like Wemby away, that's what their whole model is built upon, putting together a really good supporting cast waiting for a superstar to join and lead them to a championship. Hopefully the Spurs are a great team for all of his rookie extension and that moment comes as late as possible, but I do believe it will come eventually, even though I hope I'm dead wrong.

ignoring is too strong, but journalists aren’t excited to come to SA let’s not pretend it doesn’t matter…

just take what Wemby already did and imagine if he did it with the lakers or the Knicks… it would be 10 times the buzz there is today.

AGAIN I didn’t do any prediction, I pointed my agnosticism actually and the fact that having certainty one way or another was stupid bc none can really read him and his past actions can be used for both scenarios

i have no worries short term tho (4-5 years at least)

Pop staying might end up being key imo

[ambchang]

Have any of these national media guys ever uttered another team in regard to Wemby? I haven't heard it. Someone claimed Windhorst said "Wemby would be a perfect fit in LA" and then pointed to an article where no such thing was ever said (and, let's face it, Wemby would be a perfect fit on any team).

National media types questioning the Front Office is just the cost of the spotlight. Look at The Yankees or Cowboys in any given year (Teams that actually haven't done anything of late to deserve the attention). This is the kind of scrutiny that occurs in big markets every year. When they talk about "not such if so-and-so could handle the New York/wherever media" - this is what they are talking about. Non-stop scrutiny and analysis, not just every couple of weeks but after EVERY SINGLE GAME. The Local Spurs media doesn't do that, in part because the Spurs don't like it and you'll lose access (at least according to friend of mine who is a former local TV Sports director who works in another market now).

The talking heads discussing the way the Spurs have built around Wemby is the easiest, no-brainer topic for them to tackle... and they are seeing that Wemby is going to be the face, so they need reasons to talk about him. This is just the way to take it out of the highlight shows and into the talking-head shows.

Still didn’t get the guys part meaning mainstream media. But since you haven’t heard it and is too lazy to do any research to debunk your own agenda for getting Trae young, here you go:

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-analyst-thinks-victor-wembanyama-will-join-the-lakers-in-the-next-five-years
https://hoopshabit.com/2023/06/25/viral-tweet-wembanyama-lakers-spurs/

[Chinook]

1st I’m not « calling u out » :lol I’m just exchanging my pov with other ppl who share the same interest in Wemby and the spurs. Why not try to not always take stuff personally?

It's not about taking things personally. It's about me addressing a line of argument that I don't think is reasonable.


3rd I think you’re confusing instant reaction to losses or wins and long term plans in his mind that none of us has access to.
Wemby being opened doesn’t mean he’s transparent which would be stupid to be and he’s far from being an idiot.
i don’t see how enjoying the present process, being occasionally upset or joyful ha anything to do with his long term plans.

People have used his reaction to this season to predict long-term effects. This isn't isolated to this forum (though non-Spurs fans are way less inclined to believe the Spurs have to build quickly from my experience), as the original post of this thread shows. What I'm saying is if those reactions can be said to suggest anything long term, it doesn't point to him being a flight risk. Windhorst reported on Wemby's mindset, so while we don't KNOW what's in Victor's head, this isn't a black box situation. We're talking about rumors, what level of weight we assign to those rumors, and the hypothetical effects of those being true, which is normal for a sports forum.


4th I’m aware NBA trades aren’t like football (soccer) transfers, thx, but even without conflict if he request a trade after let’s say 7-8y so that Spurs get something in return (I can’t see him leaving at end of contract that’s be dick move/not him), it’s not an absurde scenario if he wants to start a new challenge for ex in NY, closer to Europe with better game time hours and massive media impact…

NBA trades aren't like other basketball leagues, not just other sports. You're welcome. It's important to understand he doesn't have the same autonomy here and thus would be subject to much more criticism if he left any time within the next few years. Beyond that, I think you're talking about a time beyond where this thread and the ESPN folks are talking about. That doesn't make your view invalid. It just means it's its own thing. If we're talking about how Wemby might leave in year seven or eight, the Spurs will have had plenty of time to make something happen by then no matter which path to rebuilding they take.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Still didn’t get the guys part meaning mainstream media. But since you haven’t heard it and is too lazy to do any research to debunk your own agenda for getting Trae young, here you go:

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-analyst-thinks-victor-wembanyama-will-join-the-lakers-in-the-next-five-years
https://hoopshabit.com/2023/06/25/viral-tweet-wembanyama-lakers-spurs/

:lol Keyshawn Johnson and a random tweet

[Chinook]

RGMers were talking about the Suns trading Durant. I would definitely prefer KD to anyone else extensively talked about. I can't think of a better mentor for Victor than Durant. He has the type of game Wemby wants to develop and is as far as I know an enthusiastic teacher. He also has one of the more unique career journeys for a guy of his talent, and I think he could provide a lot of wisdom in terms of what to do and what not to do in that regard. I don't know if the Spurs could be a contender given Durant's age. But as I said earlier in this thread, the point of the off-season isn't to win more games. It's to get Victor as set up as possible, and getting a guy who can be for him as David was to Tim seems like a dream come true.

Plus, yeah, if they made the right moves around it, Durant and Wemby absolutely could win a title as 1A and 1B.

[Frenchfred]

At the end, it is in the Spurs hand to build a team around Wemby that can win championships. The Spurs have a lot of FRP and some cap space to make things happen.

[Cry Havoc]

What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh. :lol

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-nba-player

That's fine. Plenty of others in this thread are looking for a 2 way monster, so it's definitely not "nobody". And personally I don't think Trae on a team of good defenders + Wemby would be the liability that some people here are making him out to be.


Regarding which guards I'd rather have over Trae that might be available at the right price: Mitchell, Garland and even Harden as a stopgap of two or three years (and yes, Harden is a much better defender than Young despite all the memes). Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry could be some other options.


Donovan Mitchell would be incredible but that's a best-case scenario... getting him would lock us in for multiple titles IMO.

Harden is abysmal, no way would I want him on this squad to prep for the future. Even if he made us better, he's not worth the locker room issues and I'm fairly certain Wemby wouldn't enjoy his presence. He's also 34 and his playoff performances aren't going to get any better going forward.

Conley and Lowry... are not going to take us anywhere. 0 chance of winning a title with those guys. Makes little sense to pursue them as they're just getting older and while they might be a bit of an upgrade at present, that's hardly the kind of move that's going to bring home titles. Trae would be far more impactful from day 1, especially when you consider the goal is to take the load off Wemby and to draw defenders away from him. Neither of those guys address that issue, so it's a bit weird to even posit them in this situation.


If not, I'd rather take my chances drafting someone or waiting to see which options become available next season.

And that's the rub. The whole idea behind winning with Wemby is finding players to put around him to contend. Even if, and that's a big if, there's a PG in the draft who could do that, it assumes he's 1) going to be available to us 2) can develop quickly enough to fit our timeline. Those are massive gambles with the level of superstar we have in Wemby. I'm not saying we need to win by next season or even the following, but we absolutely cannot sit on our hands and hope a star guard just falls into our lap in the draft. That's way too much rolling the dice.

I would trade anyone on this team + 4-5 picks to land Mitchell. Outside of that, I don't see a lot of options for us atm. Maybe the situation changes a lot in a year or two and we can land someone we didn't expect, but it would be utterly foolish to chase an old broken down veteran PG who's limited in scoring if we have a shot at landing someone like Trae. We absolutely need more scoring options to limit what other team's defenses can load up on to throw at Wemby.

[JeffDuncan]

What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh. :lol

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-nba-player
…



Have you noticed something about that?

It says that Trae Young’s individual DRTG is 122.6. Ok.

The Hawk’s team DRTG is 120.5.

Which means that Trae himself, personally, is responsible for giving up 102% of the points scored against the Hawks. (122.6/120.5=1.02) He is so bad that he is giving up more points than the other teams are scoring! Jeepers!

Which is why you shouldn’t just toss something like that into a discussion and think you’ve made a point. A bit more is required.

Compare those two numbers. The difference is 2.1. That is one bucket. The actual implication is that Trae is one bucket worse than the “average Hawks defender.”

If all the Hawks’ defenders were equal they would all have ratings the same as the team. They couldn’t be different.

Compare Tre Jones. Currently, Tre’s DRTG is 120.0 and the Spurs’ DRTG is 118.1. The difference is 1.9. So Tre is one bucket worse than the “average Spurs defender.”

Wemby. His current DRTG is 107.4.
118.1 - 107.4 = 10.7
More than five buckets better than the “average Spurs defender.” That’s rather a lot.

Gobert? Why not. His DRTG is 103.9 and the TWolves are at 108.4. Difference of 4.5. He’s 2.25 buckets better defensively than his team avg.

Wemby is more than twice as good defensively compared to his teammates as Gobert is, compared to his guys.

The stats say Wemby needs better teammates. Duh.

Chet? He’s 108.7, and OKC is 112.5. Diff of 3.8. He’s a little less than two buckets better defensively than his average teammate.

Small differences mount up over the course of the season. A team that can gain, say, just four points per game on average, either offensively or defensively, can expect a substantial improvement in their record.

[Cry Havoc]

Have you noticed something about that?

It says that Trae Young’s individual DRTG is 122.6. Ok.

The Hawk’s team DRTG is 120.5.

Which means that Trae himself, personally, is responsible for giving up 102% of the points scored against the Hawks. (122.6/120.5=1.02) He is so bad that he is giving up more points than the other teams are scoring! Jeepers!

Which is why you shouldn’t just toss something like that into a discussion and think you’ve made a point. A bit more is required.

Compare those two numbers. The difference is 2.1. That is one bucket. The actual implication is that Trae is one bucket worse than the “average Hawks defender.”

If all the Hawks’ defenders were equal they would all have ratings the same as the team. They couldn’t be different.

Compare Tre Jones. Currently, Tre’s DRTG is 120.0 and the Spurs’ DRTG is 118.1. The difference is 1.9. So Tre is one bucket worse than the “average Spurs defender.”

Wemby. His current DRTG is 107.4.
118.1 - 107.4 = 10.7
More than five buckets better than the “average Spurs defender.” That’s rather a lot.

Gobert? Why not. His DRTG is 103.9 and the TWolves are at 108.4. Difference of 4.5. He’s 2.25 buckets better defensively than his team avg.

Wemby is more than twice as good defensively compared to his teammates as Gobert is, compared to his guys.

The stats say Wemby needs better teammates. Duh.

Chet? He’s 108.7, and OKC is 112.5. Diff of 3.8. He’s a little less than two buckets better defensively than his average teammate.

Small differences mount up over the course of the season. A team that can gain, say, just four points per game on average, either offensively or defensively, can expect a substantial improvement in their record.

Also a notable name on that list: Dejounte Murray is 16th worst.

One more reason why using flat DRTG as a gauge for defensive prowess is wrongthink.

[DAF86]

Have you noticed something about that?

It says that Trae Young’s individual DRTG is 122.6. Ok.

The Hawk’s team DRTG is 120.5.

Which means that Trae himself, personally, is responsible for giving up 102% of the points scored against the Hawks. (122.6/120.5=1.02) He is so bad that he is giving up more points than the other teams are scoring! Jeepers!

Which is why you shouldn’t just toss something like that into a discussion and think you’ve made a point. A bit more is required.

Compare those two numbers. The difference is 2.1. That is one bucket. The actual implication is that Trae is one bucket worse than the “average Hawks defender.”

If all the Hawks’ defenders were equal they would all have ratings the same as the team. They couldn’t be different.

Compare Tre Jones. Currently, Tre’s DRTG is 120.0 and the Spurs’ DRTG is 118.1. The difference is 1.9. So Tre is one bucket worse than the “average Spurs defender.”

Wemby. His current DRTG is 107.4.
118.1 - 107.4 = 10.7
More than five buckets better than the “average Spurs defender.” That’s rather a lot.

Gobert? Why not. His DRTG is 103.9 and the TWolves are at 108.4. Difference of 4.5. He’s 2.25 buckets better defensively than his team avg.

Wemby is more than twice as good defensively compared to his teammates as Gobert is, compared to his guys.

The stats say Wemby needs better teammates. Duh.

Chet? He’s 108.7, and OKC is 112.5. Diff of 3.8. He’s a little less than two buckets better defensively than his average teammate.

Small differences mount up over the course of the season. A team that can gain, say, just four points per game on average, either offensively or defensively, can expect a substantial improvement in their record.

Yeah, yeah, I know basketball's defensive metrics are far from being great indicators. I just used that graphic to illustrate a point. Still, it does warrant a mention that this is not a one time thing, Young has been ranked about this low throughout his entire career. Has he played in bad defense his entire career? If so, is it a coincidence that his teams are always this bad on defense? Something to think about.

Either way, my concerns with Young's defense don't come from metrics, but just from watching him play. His physical limitations are obvious but he also doesn't display any kind of feel on that side of the ball to make up for some of it. I know we have the potential GOAT defender to make up for it, but I would rather get someone that isn't as big of a liability on that side of the floor.

[MannyIsGod]

There’s a lot of conspiracy takes in this thread revolving around the media. Media talking heads aren’t scheming to get Wemby to another team.

[ambchang]

:lol Keyshawn Johnson and a random tweet

Keyshawn works for ESPN
The tweet is from clutch points, which while not a major outlet, is a sports specific news site.

[Pauleta14]

It's not about taking things personally. It's about me addressing a line of argument that I don't think is reasonable.



People have used his reaction to this season to predict long-term effects. This isn't isolated to this forum (though non-Spurs fans are way less inclined to believe the Spurs have to build quickly from my experience), as the original post of this thread shows. What I'm saying is if those reactions can be said to suggest anything long term, it doesn't point to him being a flight risk. Windhorst reported on Wemby's mindset, so while we don't KNOW what's in Victor's head, this isn't a black box situation. We're talking about rumors, what level of weight we assign to those rumors, and the hypothetical effects of those being true, which is normal for a sports forum.



NBA trades aren't like other basketball leagues, not just other sports. You're welcome. It's important to understand he doesn't have the same autonomy here and thus would be subject to much more criticism if he left any time within the next few years. Beyond that, I think you're talking about a time beyond where this thread and the ESPN folks are talking about. That doesn't make your view invalid. It just means it's its own thing. If we're talking about how Wemby might leave in year seven or eight, the Spurs will have had plenty of time to make something happen by then no matter which path to rebuilding they take.


- interesting that for u an agnostic position is unreasonable …

- only a very small sample of fans have had those extrem scenarios of Wemby asking for a trade before the end of his rookie contact.

- why this unnecessary condescending way of talking mate? Do u see yourself that more smarter? You should take time to read properly next time, I nuanced my point and am very well aware of the importance of the form in the eventuality of his departure. I added that itd be done so that Spurs won’t be losing/not in a conflictuel way
the point remains the same, thinking knowing what Wemby thinks is stupid and pretentious.

[DAF86]

That's fine. Plenty of others in this thread are looking for a 2 way monster, so it's definitely not "nobody". And personally I don't think Trae on a team of good defenders + Wemby would be the liability that some people here are making him out to be.

In the regular season it wouldn't, but in championship level series, when elite teams plan specifically to beat you, Trae will be seen as an opportunity to exploit.



Donovan Mitchell would be incredible but that's a best-case scenario... getting him would lock us in for multiple titles IMO.

Harden is abysmal, no way would I want him on this squad to prep for the future. Even if he made us better, he's not worth the locker room issues and I'm fairly certain Wemby wouldn't enjoy his presence. He's also 34 and his playoff performances aren't going to get any better going forward.

Conley and Lowry... are not going to take us anywhere. 0 chance of winning a title with those guys. Makes little sense to pursue them as they're just getting older and while they might be a bit of an upgrade at present, that's hardly the kind of move that's going to bring home titles. Trae would be far more impactful from day 1, especially when you consider the goal is to take the load off Wemby and to draw defenders away from him. Neither of those guys address that issue, so it's a bit weird to even posit them in this situation.

You obviously wouldn't be getting Conley or Lowry with expectations of ringing next year, tbh, but guess what? The Spurs are not ringing next year either, even if they get Trae. In fact, I don't think Trae is a championship level player. That's exactly why I don't want the Spurs trading for him.

The idea of getting a Mike Conley or Kyle Lowry type player is to add some veteran mentorship and improve as a team. Nobody should expect to become contenders next season, tbh.


And that's the rub. The whole idea behind winning with Wemby is finding players to put around him to contend. Even if, and that's a big if, there's a PG in the draft who could do that, it assumes he's 1) going to be available to us 2) can develop quickly enough to fit our timeline. Those are massive gambles with the level of superstar we have in Wemby. I'm not saying we need to win by next season or even the following, but we absolutely cannot sit on our hands and hope a star guard just falls into our lap in the draft. That's way too much rolling the dice.

I would trade anyone on this team + 4-5 picks to land Mitchell. Outside of that, I don't see a lot of options for us atm. Maybe the situation changes a lot in a year or two and we can land someone we didn't expect, but it would be utterly foolish to chase an old broken down veteran PG who's limited in scoring if we have a shot at landing someone like Trae. We absolutely need more scoring options to limit what other team's defenses can load up on to throw at Wemby.

If you commit to Trae in this offseason, because of the draft capital that you would be giving out and the cap space that his contract demands, you are basically commiting to him being the second best player of our team for a long ass time. And like I previously said, I just don't think he's a championship level player. Getting a guy like Conley would help you improve, while still keeping your options open for a better player as Wemby's sidekick. That's the rationale behind getting a "broken down veteran PG" over Trae Young, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Keyshawn works for ESPN
The tweet is from clutch points, which while not a major outlet, is a sports specific news site.

Keyshawn went to USC.

[Chinook]

- interesting that for u an agnostic position is unreasonable …


Wemby changed TWICE teams between 16 and 18 because he thought it wasn't the right place for his ambition and some of you think he'll hesitate to push for a trade?

It'll never go public, not his education, at best it'll be insinuated.

He'll also never backstab the Spurs, meaning he'll try his best to lobby before taking the radical option.

This is the position you stated in your first post for this thread. You certainly had no problem speculating on his mindset. So cut this shit about agnosticism. None of us KNOW Wemby's mind. Stating that isn't a stance as much a disengagement. You've already given your view and you don't "know" that it's true any more than I "know" my point is true. Difference is I admit that it's speculation in response to the report we got about Wemby's mentality. I'm not pretending to know.


- only a very small sample of fans have had those extrem scenarios of Wemby asking for a trade before the end of his rookie contact.

Who knows how many? I haven't asked for a poll. But the level of anxiety shown by some posters here suggests they probably don't feel like the Spurs have seven or eight years.


why this unnecessary condescending way of talking mate?

Speaking tactfully and speaking condescendingly are different things. I was trying to tactfully tell you that you're off topic because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you legit don't understand that. I allowed for the possibility that you don't know what thread you were in. See for me, I was minding my own business talking about how I think Wemby's competitiveness might lead him to wanting to win in SA rather than complicate his legacy like Durant and James did by leaving for a super team and how that would mean the Spurs don't have to panic. Then you cartwheeled in here talking about how Wemby might leave for New York in seven or eight years for the media or culture or whatever. So I'm like, "Okay dude, that's fine, but we're not really talking about that. We're talking about whether the Spurs need to make a big move this summer to make Victor happy."

So to say it less tactfully: This thread is about Windhorst's report saying that Wemby wants the Spurs to take immediate action to improve their team, how much we as fans should trust that report and what the consequences would be if that report is true. You started talking to me about stuff that isn't that, so I don't really care to engage with that. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I just don't care about it. It wasn't what we were talking about when you decided to jump in.

[TD 21]

Conley just extended for 2/$20M with the Timberwolves and Lowry is a washed ring chaser.

[Pauleta14]

I tried but you're sick Chinook, hope you fix yourself :lol

And lol at selecting what fits your narrative, you must be something on political/more important topics ...

[Das Texan]

This is exactly what Holt is doing

If anyone has paid half attention this is 100% what they are doing. Its why they playe din Austin. Its why they played in Mexico City. Its why they would play in Laredo and McAllen if they could.

Holt Cat the younger is seeing the Spurs while based in San Antonio as much, much more than JUST a San Antonio team.

[JeffDuncan]

… Has [Trae Young] played in bad defense his entire career? …



Possibly. Could be wrong, but I don’t think the Hawks have been better than league average defensively since Budenholzer left.


… I would rather get someone that isn't as big of a liability on that [defensive] side of the floor.


So would I. The question is who.

The only players available are exactly that. The players who are available. That’s all there is.

If all you ever do is walk around the parlor dusting the knickknacks while you wait for Mr. Perfect to walk through the door you’re going to end up an old maid.

I don’t even know if Trae Young is possible. It’s only rumors.

Donovan Mitchell has been mentioned. It’s interesting to compare him with Trae from the 2020-21 season up to now. Their advanced stats are remarkably similar in some ways.

PER
Mitchell, 22.2
Young, 22.8

TS%
Mitchell, .590
Young, .587

USG%
Mitchell, 32.6
Young, 32.8

Of course other stats are quite different, but here’s the one that gets me.

AST%
Mitchell, 25.8
Young, 44.7

Trae’s AST% is right up there with Jokic and Luka. Mitchell is nowhere close. Not even in the same tier. Even after Mitchell went to the Cavs with two bigs to pass to, Allen and Mobley, his AST% didn’t improve, in fact, it went down the first year.

As a player on his own you might lean towards Mitchell, but as a teammate for Wemby, nah. Tre Jones has a higher AST% than Mitchell, btw.

Maybe it’s a ‘me’ problem but when I see that wonderful AST% Trae has, it looks to me like a big flashing neon arrow that points straight at Wemby.

[DAF86]

Possibly. Could be wrong, but I don’t think the Hawks have been better than league average defensively since Budenholzer left.




So would I. The question is who.

The only players available are exactly that. The players who are available. That’s all there is.

If all you ever do is walk around the parlor dusting the knickknacks while you wait for Mr. Perfect to walk through the door you’re going to end up an old maid.

I don’t even know if Trae Young is possible. It’s only rumors.

Donovan Mitchell has been mentioned. It’s interesting to compare him with Trae from the 2020-21 season up to now. Their advanced stats are remarkably similar in some ways.

PER
Mitchell, 22.2
Young, 22.8

TS%
Mitchell, .590
Young, .587

USG%
Mitchell, 32.6
Young, 32.8

Of course other stats are quite different, but here’s the one that gets me.

AST%
Mitchell, 25.8
Young, 44.7

Trae’s AST% is right up there with Jokic and Luka. Mitchell is nowhere close. Not even in the same tier. Even after Mitchell went to the Cavs with two bigs to pass to, Allen and Mobley, his AST% didn’t improve, in fact, it went down the first year.

As a player on his own you might lean towards Mitchell, but as a teammate for Wemby, nah. Tre Jones has a higher AST% than Mitchell, btw.

Maybe it’s a ‘me’ problem but when I see that wonderful AST% Trae has, it looks to me like a big flashing neon arrow that points straight at Wemby.

I don't know, The Mavs drafted Jalen Brunson with the 33rd pick. You never know when that player could be coming. The fact that there isn't one obvious answer right now doesn't mean that you have to settle for someone that, deep down in your core, you know is not good enough.

This is like being 22 years old and deciding to marry a woman you don't love, just because you don't see any other candidate out there. Chill out, you're young still, there's no reason for you to get married yet. Don't make a huge commitement now for someone that you know isn't what you really want just because you felt like you needed to "get someone". Sure, you can get a divorce down the road, but by then you would have wasted a lot of time and resources on that person that you always knew was never going to be good enough for you. Now you are 30, with only half of what you used to own, and having to start over to try and make up for lost time.

[SupremeGuy]

RGMers were talking about the Suns trading Durant. I would definitely prefer KD to anyone else extensively talked about. I can't think of a better mentor for Victor than Durant. He has the type of game Wemby wants to develop and is as far as I know an enthusiastic teacher. He also has one of the more unique career journeys for a guy of his talent, and I think he could provide a lot of wisdom in terms of what to do and what not to do in that regard. I don't know if the Spurs could be a contender given Durant's age. But as I said earlier in this thread, the point of the off-season isn't to win more games. It's to get Victor as set up as possible, and getting a guy who can be for him as David was to Tim seems like a dream come true.

Plus, yeah, if they made the right moves around it, Durant and Wemby absolutely could win a title as 1A and 1B.Wemby and KD would be insane for a few years but what's the cost tbh?

[TimmyBuckets]

IDK if you guys know Tony Parker, but he was ass at Defense too. A lot of Luka fans on here, me included, and yet he's the same class as Trae with a lower 3pt% and worse FT%, along with less Avg Assists. Not exactly known for his D either lol. Is Luka bad too?

Its obvious the timeline has moved up, or maybe Spurs planned for this and have been building for it, considering they've been closely monitoring Wemby for years, coupled with the fact that they know a 7+ footer's time in the league is statistically more limited. As crazy as it sounds, we're in win now mode. It's a player's league and Tim Duncan retired. Wemby's camp is putting pressure on the Spurs, but also sending a message to every other star that he's ready to win now. Wemby isn't Timmy (who was close to leaving at one point too btw).

Trae Youngs don't grow on trees just like Lukas don't grow on trees. A 25 year old star entering his prime, who has playoff experience, has made multiple clutch shots, isn't afraid of the moment, and who's taken his team to the ECF isn't guaranteed to come to SA in the next few years. Spurs will absolutely jump at the opportunity. They have plenty of capital and, if it ends up happening, will likely agree to an amenable deal. Unlikely they overpay, but even if they do it wouldn't by much and it certainly wouldn't derail their future. Wemby is their future. For those who think Wemby alone will turn SA into an appetizing spot for other stars (I don't necessarily), then there's no reason to think that the Spurs won't be able to get another star if Trae doesn't work out. Not trying to get Trae though is just dumb.

Y'all keep wishing for a savior to help Wemby, or flip-flopping on whether Vassell and Sochan are gonna be ass or great. Truth is your savior is a 7'3 potential GOAT, and if you keep yapping about wanting him to call out Pop ,or throwing coins in your wishing well for the ideal perfect star, who, judging by the inconsistent posts, is an imaginary person, then your gonna watch your favorite player GTFO.

[r0drig0lac]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

that's impossible, he's already the face of the league, playing in SA or NY.

[Brazil]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ? :lol

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

First of all, drawing a picture from the moves he made in the past is misleading. He changed team because he considered he was not progressing enough, the goal was to be NBA ready. In terms of progress Victor must be absolutely satisfied with what he is achieving with the Spurs, physicality, 3 pts shooting, playmaking... if there was a MIP during the season he would win it comfortably.

Second the fact he is comfortable with the media and likes the attention does not mean he wants more than he has. He is not a party goer, he likes to go to bed early, he is reading and does not spend his time posting on social media. There is no scenario where he would choose LA or NYC for that kind of shit.

At the end, it is pretty clear he has 4 priorities: 1. stay healthy 2. improving his game 3. winning and 4. build a legacy. In 7/8 years health will be maintenance and he will reach his peak in terms of game. All will depend on winning and legacy, the only scenario where he would go somewhere else is if Spurs can't put quality teams together giving him a chance to ring every year. If he leaves one day SA, there will be 0 influence about big markets, social media stuff... all will be around winning, if the Spurs are too cheap to compete on a regular he will play for any team with a solid project and it could be okc or indiana.

The Spurs have all the cards on hand to retain him for his whole career... that's quite simple, preserve his health, coach him so that he progress, don't be cute and cheap, pay him the max always, don't be afraid to go above luxury tax to get him the best team mates possible.

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs just gotta put a long term roster around him that makes them the title favorite and he will stay. He has to win at least 6 rings to enter the GOAT debate, so the goal has to be to form some type of superteam around Wemby that makes us the title favorite every season.

[CGD]

:lol Keyshawn Johnson and a random tweet

lol, that laker graphic features Dwight HOWARD!

[tmtcsc]

Gregg Popovich is completely responsible for the shit-show of a season we’ve seen. Its been a wasted year and it didn’t need to be. Thank goodness Wemby loves the organization and its history. He’s done his part & must feel let down by the team’s inaction & poor planning. He should have been surrounded by competent players with a mix of youth and experience.

[lefty]

IDK if you guys know Tony Parker,.
Claxton's backup?