[Finger] I say this without an ounce of exaggeration or hyperbole: I talk to people about the Spurs every day. And of all those people, there is one who is, by far, the most forward-thinking and relentlessly patient when it comes to the plan.

[Cry Havoc]

"It's the 20 year-old kid."

RIP the overreactions on this board having nightmares about Wemby demanding a trade to Boston after 1 season in San Antonio.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Finger and Old McDonald have been saying this for awhile. Maybe putting it in the title will be the difference. We still have Lakers/Rockets/Mavs fans upset about the treadmill and no Wemby.

We are still going to get wishes of Wemby leaving because they see Doncic in the scenario we are supposed to be afraid of.
We are still going to get wishes of trading all of our assets for dogshit because that is the level of assets they have.

[slick'81]

Jesus thats a long title

[The Truth #6]

Finger = sniffer? Lol.

[Barfunk]

Jesus thats a long title

Lmao

[CGD]

But which of the FIVE 20 year olds is it??

[cutewizard]

Wembbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[vander]

that's nice and all but you still need a competent FO.

[Tyronn Lue]

To be fair I'm sure Kawhi made some pro team/Pop comments in his early years. Victor will be fine for now, but Spurs won't be able to slow play him.

[KingKev]

OP def a beaner

[Cry Havoc]

OP def a beaner

Swing and a miss. It's okay though, probably the most intelligent guess you'll make on this board even if it's 100% wrong.

[Cry Havoc]

Jesus thats a long title

The long titles may continue if the stupidity does.

[itzsoweezee]

All of the local spurs writers are morons. These guys have no clue what’s going on with the spurs

[TimDunkem]

...So what's the plan?

[MannyIsGod]

"It's the 20 year-old kid."

RIP the overreactions on this board having nightmares about Wemby demanding a trade to Boston after 1 season in San Antonio.

Oh so now we'er gonna listen to the Spurs reporters who never have actual insight to anything? OK.

[MultiTroll]

Does this break the record for longest thread subject?

[Cry Havoc]

Oh so now we'er gonna listen to the Spurs reporters who never have actual insight to anything? OK.

As opposed to ESPN and random fans with "bad vibes"?

I mean, sure. The null hypothesis here is that as long as Wemby is playing and putting up huge numbers, he's a spur. Until there's something definitive from Wemby or an extremely trustworthy source, there's absolutely no reason to believe Wemby is even mildly disgruntled with the Spurs org. Esp considering he wanted to come here to begin with.

[Cry Havoc]

Does this break the record for longest thread subject?

It's within 3 characters of the max length allowed by the board.

[TekXX]

Sure Wembys on board until he's not, just like nephew.

[Ditty]

I think we needed a longer subject title :lol

[timtonymanu]

OP should already how this place functions. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

OP should already how this place functions. :lol

I do. I can still rip on idiocy when I see it.

[z0sa]

I've been pretty resilient, I supported Pop all the way up through 18 straight losses in a season we drafted easily the best prospect since LeBron James. It's been a struggle and I am as guilty as anyone of getting caught up in the moment. I just want our boys to do well and not stink up the joint. I'm happy to eat crow if some of our roleplayers, especially a guy like Branham, step up. I just hope it's sooner rather than later, and I hope that whatever PATFO are doing, it keeps Victor here.

[JPB]

As opposed to ESPN and random fans with "bad vibes"?

I mean, sure. The null hypothesis here is that as long as Wemby is playing and putting up huge numbers, he's a spur. Until there's something definitive from Wemby or an extremely trustworthy source, there's absolutely no reason to believe Wemby is even mildly disgruntled with the Spurs org. Esp considering he wanted to come here to begin with.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again, just wishful thinking with zero base yourself...

Can hardly make a better source than the 20 y.o kid himself who have sent pleny of signal these past two weeks... saying he's sick of losing, and I mean right in the middle of the court that "he missed this shit", also saying he's "used to climb the stairs running". If he's so emotional about losing in the middle of his first season, imagine in 3 years...

Did SA reporters spend one week with Wemby and his clan in Paris before the draft, like Windhorst did? Windhorst is as close as you can be from Wemby in the media, more than any SA journalist will ever be, and he's not speaking from his ass... And I won't elaborate on if Woj is a credible source as a journalist... The guy litterally knows and talk to everybody and their brother in NBA front offices, and is litterally announcing draft picks before the teams...

I don't know why a few guys seem to take it so personally, but it'll just take a few months to see if spurs and Wemby are really ready to suck ass for another 3-to 5 years, just adding a couple picks nest June and developing them for another 4 years next to this mediocre roster.

[JPB]

I'm really not sure everyone understands what kind of competitor and animal Wemby is, and the ambtions he has for himself. He's also special for that, Wemby is not your random, obedient, passive rookie who will accept anything spurs FO do... He wants to make history, be the GOAT. He'll be ready to dominate by next year, and would be potential MVP in a just a decent team. He wants the MVPs, he wants the accolades, he wants everything, saying exactly this in presse conference... And not a bit of everything, simply everything.

But yeah, he'll be happy wasting 4 freaking years seeing Pop "developing" all the Malaki Branhams, Blake Wesleys or Jeremy Sochans of the world plus whatever pick spurs will add to this terrible team while Wemby will put 30/15/5/5/5 a night in another loss.

He'll luuuuuvvvv every step of this with zero chance of seeing any of these guys becoming anything else than role players. I mean, are there really people who believe the current core will constitute the core of a contender in 3 to 4 years? OR maybe we're gonna get Cooper Flag and Cameron Boozer too...? Or that Pop is so great that he"ll make these guys all stars or something while he never did that and never had to run a rebuild...? These people are in a cult, blindly believing the guru will bring them to Sirius, just because he's the guru. That's Trumper level of blindness.

[RC_Drunkford]

He'll luuuuuvvvv every step of this with zero chance of seeing any of these guys becoming anything else than role players. I mean, are there really people who believe the current core will constitute the core of a contender in 3 to 4 years? OR maybe we're gonna get Cooper Flag and Cameron Boozer too...? Or that Pop is so great that he"ll make these guys all stars or something while he never did that and never had to run a rebuild...? These people are in a cult, blindly believing the guru will bring them to Sirius, just because he's the guru. That's Trumper level of blindness.

at least 30% of this board believes exactly that. Apparently KD, Trae Young and LeBron are all cancers and the Spurs should rather add 12 draft picks to the roster in the next 3 years.

[sananspursfan21]

I’m sure that the Spurs powers that be are constantly walking him through their plan to get him a title in the next 5-7 years. I doubt they’re just going about their way and not talking with him. Do some of you really think they don’t know what they have? I guarantee they lose more sleep about how they’re gonna keep Wemby happy than you do. Some people in here probably think they lock Wemby in a closet with a dingy water bowl and gruel.

[poopbox]

out of his own mouth before he was drafted Victor said he wanted to win as much as possible as fast as possible. But behind closed doors in the Spurs secret lab he "relentlessly patient"

I guess the two teams he left in france didn't get that memo

[MannyIsGod]

As opposed to ESPN and random fans with "bad vibes"?

I mean, sure. The null hypothesis here is that as long as Wemby is playing and putting up huge numbers, he's a spur. Until there's something definitive from Wemby or an extremely trustworthy source, there's absolutely no reason to believe Wemby is even mildly disgruntled with the Spurs org. Esp considering he wanted to come here to begin with.

ESPN reporters absolutely have better access than Finger. It’s not even debatable. When has a local guy ever broken a story in the past decade plus? Ever since Ludden left. For some reason people here like to shit on Windhorst but it’s pretty clear he has access. Ramona Sheldon has written way more inside stuff about the Spurs than Finger. And Woj?

It’s fine if you want to believe Wemby is happy and don’t want to jump off a cliff but acting like local reporters know shit is laughable.

[Chomag]

"That's not who we are!"

[Bill_Brasky]

Is the bracketed part at the beginning of the tweet what OP does to himself every night?

[Chomag]

Im not to worried about Wemby this year as I'm sure he is giving the FO a leeway this season but if we have a meh type of off-season after this season then I think the relationship with him may start to become damaged.

Wemby is just not the type of player that will stand for mediocrity and its in his heart and soul to complete.

[daslicer]

at least 30% of this board believes exactly that. Apparently KD, Trae Young and LeBron are all cancers and the Spurs should rather add 12 draft picks to the roster in the next 3 years.

40-year-old Lebron would be a waste of time. KD is now also up there in age. Trae I will say is still young no punt intended would be a good compliment to Victor.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah but apparently the Spurs were "blindsided" by how much they suck this year when it comes to the supporting cast. So what plan are they talking about exactly? We badly need a vet star to pair with Wemby. This idea that we can build through the draft just isn't a realistic option when we are not a good drafting team. 19 year olds are not going to help Wemby.

[KingKev]

Yeah but apparently the Spurs were "blindsided" by how much they suck this year when it comes to the supporting cast. So what plan are they talking about exactly? We badly need a vet star to pair with Wemby. This idea that we can build through the draft just isn't a realistic option when we are not a good drafting team. 19 year olds are not going to help Wemby.

Preach. Our drafting track record the last 5 years is horrendous and that is with a strong development program.

[NASpurs]

This thread has backfired tremendously :lol

[rankingtear]

Preach. Our drafting track record the last 5 years is horrendous and that is with a strong development program.

OKC is worse up until 2022 draft. It still worked out for them.

[Pauleta14]

I’m sure that the Spurs powers that be are constantly walking him through their plan to get him a title in the next 5-7 years. I doubt they’re just going about their way and not talking with him. Do some of you really think they don’t know what they have? I guarantee they lose more sleep about how they’re gonna keep Wemby happy than you do. Some people in here probably think they lock Wemby in a closet with a dingy water bowl and gruel.

I think we can have a more nuanced pov can’t we?

yes Pop has plenty of compétences but he has also plenty of flaws among which a sort of stubbornness in his dogma which in itself is absurd considering how many times he was wrong and had to adapt his coaching style.
chances are he could be wrong again.
we all agree on the process, but most of us don’t on the personnel involved in it.
just listen to Pop and it’s clear he sees most of this team as the core of the futur spurs. He also advocates for a LONG process which isn’t an absolute necessity contrary to what some of you are presenting.

there’s a world between going for the title next season and waiting 4-5 years to be a contender isn’t there?

THAT is what most of us are advocating for, speed up the process now that you realise Wemby is better and readier than anticipated.

[Spurminator]

"It's the 20 year-old kid."

RIP the overreactions on this board having nightmares about Wemby demanding a trade to Boston after 1 season in San Antonio.

That's pretty hyperbolic. I'm not sure even the most chicken little of Spurs fans thinks Wemby is going to demand a trade after one year. There is, however, legitimate concern about the idea of this FO getting the best out of the Wemby era when they have (1) never built a contender from the ground up, (2) a pretty subpar recent draft record, and (3) extremely questionable in-game rotations, decisions and game management.

This is a FO that added Wemby to last year's team and somehow got worse. I feel like a lot of fans are trying to pretend they expected this season, like it was part of the plan, when literally no one was predicting this before the season nor implying it should be the "planned" approach. The only reasons to be confident that they're going to be better next year as a result of adding a couple more rookies are: (1) The bar is extremely low, and (2) Wemby will be one year older.

[KingKev]

OKC is worse up until 2022 draft. It still worked out for them.

OKC had way more shots at talent tbh. We have Wemby and that is all that matters now but sniffers need to relinquish drafts of old times past and realize we can just as easily develop a 29th pick as a top 10.

Our developmental program was in most cases our strength. Rarely an eye for talent as they are too busy doing background checks.

[Tyronn Lue]

This thread has backfired tremendously :lol
Incoming longer thread titles.

The "forward thinking" comment is confirmation bias. How the hell would you know if someone is forward thinking if you have no idea what the plan is? Patience and hesitancy to divulge your plans to some Motel 6 level reporter doesn't equate to forward thinking. The Spurs fans seem to think people they draft are forever Spurs, that they own them, that Pop controls the finances of the franchise and that nothing has changed since Peter Holt ran the show. They should remember the 2010 era when nothing but mediocre or washed up talent was being added to the Spurs, when Tim was getting fat and the Spurs were not at their peak because of PATFO decisions.

At some point the AOP matters, so if that's where the Spurs are looking, Victor has his own agenda and he has a camp just as Kawhi did (and all superstars do).

[rankingtear]

I think we can have a more nuanced pov can’t we?

yes Pop has plenty of compétences but he has also plenty of flaws among which a sort of stubbornness in his dogma which in itself is absurd considering how many times he was wrong and had to adapt his coaching style.
chances are he could be wrong again.
we all agree on the process, but most of us don’t on the personnel involved in it.
just listen to Pop and it’s clear he sees most of this team as the core of the futur spurs. He also advocates for a LONG process which isn’t an absolute necessity contrary to what some of you are presenting.

there’s a world between going for the title next season and waiting 4-5 years to be a contender isn’t there?

THAT is what most of us are advocating for, speed up the process now that you realise Wemby is better and readier than anticipated.

Building fast and building sustainable is near impossible to pull off. Can you think of a team that accomplished both?

[Tyronn Lue]

I think we can have a more nuanced pov can’t we?

yes Pop has plenty of compétences but he has also plenty of flaws among which a sort of stubbornness in his dogma which in itself is absurd considering how many times he was wrong and had to adapt his coaching style.
chances are he could be wrong again.
we all agree on the process, but most of us don’t on the personnel involved in it.
just listen to Pop and it’s clear he sees most of this team as the core of the futur spurs. He also advocates for a LONG process which isn’t an absolute necessity contrary to what some of you are presenting.

there’s a world between going for the title next season and waiting 4-5 years to be a contender isn’t there?

THAT is what most of us are advocating for, speed up the process now that you realise Wemby is better and readier than anticipated.
Pop sees a long process because Pop has a contract. It's like how a POTUS candidate has a 7 year plan vs a 4 year plan. If that process includes a championship, fine. If it means barely into the play-in bracket in 4 years that's probably not a bar Victor wants to train for.

Sure, the environment now allows more players to reach a global audience, regardless of their US market size. However, US market size is still a huge advantage as a superstar, as better players are attracted to these markets. I don't think guys will be as team loyal as TD, KG and Dame Lillard were. I don't know if they need to be.

[Tyronn Lue]

Building fast and building sustainable is near impossible to pull off. Can you think of a team that accomplished both?
Can't do either using G league as a team building conduit. You can probably count on one hand the number of G league players who made an impact in the NBA. Not talking about send down, call back types.

[rankingtear]

OKC had way more shots at talent tbh. We have Wemby and that is all that matters now but sniffers need to relinquish drafts of old times past and realize we can just as easily develop a 29th pick as a top 10.

Our developmental program was in most cases our strength. Rarely an eye for talent as they are too busy doing background checks.

But shooting and size dries up pretty fast and you need wings to be relevant.

[scott]

Yeah but apparently the Spurs were "blindsided" by how much they suck this year when it comes to the supporting cast. So what plan are they talking about exactly? We badly need a vet star to pair with Wemby. This idea that we can build through the draft just isn't a realistic option when we are not a good drafting team. 19 year olds are not going to help Wemby.

And while it is refreshing that the Spurs may realize the err of those ways, it's just another piece of evidence that this FO hasn't earned any confidence that it can be the one that turns it around and builds a winner. We are expected to have faith in this FO, but based on what? They shown they are a good demolition crew and can tear a team down to earn a #1 pick... but that's not the job anymore.

Also, this comment from Mike Finger (ignoring the credibility issue of any of the local Spurs media) isn't exactly contradictory to what Windhorst/Woj/Lowe/Shelburne/Andrews have been saying. Wemby is an extraordinarily mature young man, I believe he is fully capable of demonstrating patience when he speaks to the media (and even to the team) while still professionally communicating that he wants the timeline to move a little faster. These things are not in conflict.

If we are sitting at 13 wins this time next year, will Wemby demand a trade? Probably not, but he undoubtedly won't be happy and he'll be demanding some changes. I believe Wemby wants to be a multi-time champion WITH THE SPURS, but I also believe that he's disappointed with what was put around him this year. I'm glad we have a player like Wemby who will force accountability upon the FO. For the first time in a long time, there is a clear cut star that isn't Pop and the FO, and if push game to shove (so long as Wemby handles himself professionally as he has) it would be Pop shown the door over Wemby. This should force Pop and the FO to respond accordingly to Wemby's frustrations. We are fortunate that Wemby is reasonable and does understand the steps (even if he wants to run up them) so he isn't forcing them to make dumb trades. I think Wemby will work with them to build the team the right way. We'll have to see if this FO is up to the task.

[exstatic]

That's pretty hyperbolic. I'm not sure even the most chicken little of Spurs fans thinks Wemby is going to demand a trade after one year. There is, however, legitimate concern about the idea of this FO getting the best out of the Wemby era when they have (1) never built a contender from the ground up, (2) a pretty subpar recent draft record, and (3) extremely questionable in-game rotations, decisions and game management.

This is a FO that added Wemby to last year's team and somehow got worse. I feel like a lot of fans are trying to pretend they expected this season, like it was part of the plan, when literally no one was predicting this before the season nor implying it should be the "planned" approach. The only reasons to be confident that they're going to be better next year as a result of adding a couple more rookies are: (1) The bar is extremely low, and (2) Wemby will be one year older.

I’d argue that in 2001, after they got shelled by the Lakers, they tore that team down to the studs, and built a new team around a star, that became the 2003,2005,2007 champs. By the 2005 playoffs, there wasn’t one player not named Duncan from the 2001 playoff team. Malik got shipped out at the deadline.

[exstatic]

Building fast and building sustainable is near impossible to pull off. Can you think of a team that accomplished both?

This. Building a trophy team in two years means it will fall apart in about the same amount of time

[rankingtear]

Can't do either using G league as a team building conduit. You can probably count on one hand the number of G league players who made an impact in the NBA. Not talking about send down, call back types.

What do you mean? Two ways?

[scott]

Pop sees a long process because Pop has a contract. It's like how a POTUS candidate has a 7 year plan vs a 4 year plan. If that process includes a championship, fine. If it means barely into the play-in bracket in 4 years that's probably not a bar Victor wants to train for.

Sure, the environment now allows more players to reach a global audience, regardless of their US market size. However, US market size is still a huge advantage as a superstar, as better players are attracted to these markets. I don't think guys will be as team loyal as TD, KG and Dame Lillard were. I don't know if they need to be.

This is a good, interesting point and may be a source of conflict. Pop has a different timeline than Wemby, by simple virtue of where they are in their careers. Pop may view this long process that culminates another NBA title, whereas Wemby sees a future with multiple titles over his career. Wemby likely has 4+ titles as his goal, based on the standards he sets for himself otherwise. He doesn't merely want to be one of the greats, he wants to be THE greatest. So taking 7-years to win his first may not align with Wemby's vision, whereas it may be just fine for Pop.

Of course, all just speculation.

[scott]

I’d argue that in 2001, after they got shelled by the Lakers, they tore that team down to the studs, and built a new team around a star, that became the 2003,2005,2007 champs. By the 2005 playoffs, there wasn’t one player not named Duncan from the 2001 playoff team. Malik got shipped out at the deadline.

Who from the 2001 Front Office is still around? It's not clear what role RC has in roster moves, if any, these days. That only leaves Pop. It's also not clear what role Pop has on draft day - are these Pop's picks or Wright's? I would venture to guess (though I'm not sure) that the scouting team is completely different. For that reason, I wouldn't use the 2001 FO as evidence that this FO has experience building from the ground up (ignoring the fact that the 2001 FO had the virtue of having two fully developed MVPs and all-time greats already on the team, granted Robinson was about to start tailing off pretty rapidly, but in 2001 he was coming off an All-Star performance, finished top 10 in MVP voting, was All-NBA 3rd Team).

[Tyronn Lue]

What do you mean?
Meaning you cannot fill your roster with developing players and expect everyone to come along at the same speed, with the same upside. There are players even starting for the Spurs who have no obvious upside. There's nothing remarkable about anyone on the Spurs not named Victor Wembanyama. Sure there are some pedestrian level shooters and Vassell is above small market average for a role player (he's not a star), but from Collins to Julian, these guys are all bench players on any other team and Julian probably doesn't even make another team who isn't tanking.

You don't need 5 superstars, but you need some more senior players on the team. Right now you have a prodigy learning chess in group lock step with special ed kids.

It almost feels like Pop is hesitant to even consider Victor a franchise guy, like he wants to give everyone the same consideration. Not all players will be of the Tim Duncan or David Robinson patience and obedience level.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who from the 2001 Front Office is still around? It's not clear what role RC has in roster moves, if any, these days. That only leaves Pop. It's also not clear what role Pop has on draft day - are these Pop's picks or Wright's? I would venture to guess (though I'm not sure) that the scouting team is completely different. For that reason, I wouldn't use the 2001 FO as evidence that this FO has experience building from the ground up (ignoring the fact that the 2001 FO had the virtue of having two fully developed MVPs and all-time greats already on the team, granted Robinson was about to start tailing off pretty rapidly, but in 2001 he was coming off an All-Star performance, finished top 10 in MVP voting, was All-NBA 3rd Team).

Buford is the CEO and you wonder if he is involved. smh. Given that there are at most a couple dozen player transactions in a year I bet he is involved in all of them.

Now is he as informed as he was when he was traveling around and scouting or watching film for hours upon hours as opposed to now that he has taken the lead executive role? No, but both Pop and RC are involved.

[Pauleta14]

Building fast and building sustainable is near impossible to pull off. Can you think of a team that accomplished both?

I didn’t say fast. I said faster

bare in mind we’re starting from way further than most with our current roster that has absurd wholes. We need veterans, shooters, playmakers (at least a proper PG) and bigs !!!

most others/previous rebuild had started their process at a higher floor than the current Spurs

+ none of them had a Wemby who had straight away huge impact on BOTH ends of the floor.

Those comparisons don’t make much sense. Like Pop using OKC’s when they got their best player via lucky trade.

again I’m not advocating for a radical strategy, just a faster one than is sold by PATFO and some of their fans (on the board and local medias)

Special player, special strategy

[scott]

Buford is the CEO and you wonder if he is involved. smh. Given that there are at most a couple dozen player transactions in a year I bet he is involved in all of them.

Now is he as informed as he was when he was traveling around and scouting or watching film for hours upon hours as opposed to now that he has taken the lead executive role? No, but both Pop and RC are involved.

Buford is CEO of Spurs Sports & Entertainment, not just the Spurs Basketball Club. It is perfectly valid to wonder how involved he is in roster moves. How involved do you think he was, for example, when the Spurs picked up Cedi Osman? My guess was it was something along the lines of "Hey RC, we are making a 3 team trade, we're going to pick up a bunch of SRPs and some small contract guys, Lamar Stevens and Cedi Osman" and RC said "okay!"

That's a fairly insignificant trade, as far as the CEO of large enterprise that involves more than just the on-the-court activities of a basketball team, goes. But it's a fairly significant trade in the rebuilding of the club, considering Cedi is a pretty important part of the rotation. What's Pop's role in moves like these? Whatever RC's role these days, it is undoubtedly less significant than it was in 2001. Would RC and Pop be involved in something like a Trae trade? Yeah probably, but largely only to the degree of signing off - they wouldn't have been involved in putting together the scouting to justify the move, or have been involved in the diligence on competing moves that could be made etc. Even if we count 2001 as a major rebuild for the Spurs (which I wouldn't), none of the people who did the leg work back then are doing the leg work now.

Glad to see you back here, arguing for the sake of arguing, though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Buford is CEO of Spurs Sports & Entertainment, not just the Spurs Basketball Club. It is perfectly valid to wonder how involved he is in roster moves. How involved do you think he was, for example, when the Spurs picked up Cedi Osman? My guess was it was something along the lines of "Hey RC, we are making a 3 team trade, we're going to pick up a bunch of SRPs and some small contract guys, Lamar Stevens and Cedi Osman" and RC said "okay!"

That's a fairly insignificant trade, as far as the CEO of large enterprise that involves more than just the on-the-court activities of a basketball team, goes. But it's a fairly significant trade in the rebuilding of the club, considering Cedi is a pretty important part of the rotation. What's Pop's role in moves like these? Whatever RC's role these days, it is undoubtedly less significant than it was in 2001. Would RC and Pop be involved in something like a Trae trade? Yeah probably, but largely only to the degree of signing off - they wouldn't have been involved in putting together the scouting to justify the move, or have been involved in the diligence on competing moves that could be made etc. Even if we count 2001 as a major rebuild for the Spurs (which I wouldn't), none of the people who did the leg work back then are doing the leg work now.

Glad to see you back here, arguing for the sake of arguing, though.

Good to see you suck at defending your stance. You basically create a fantasy narrative and make suppositions off of it. It's prima facie stupid.

The CEO is the former GM and has a close professional relationship history with the current GM who is his scion.

[T Park]

Yeah but apparently the Spurs were "blindsided" by how much they suck this year when it comes to the supporting cast. So what plan are they talking about exactly? We badly need a vet star to pair with Wemby. This idea that we can build through the draft just isn't a realistic option when we are not a good drafting team. 19 year olds are not going to help Wemby.

cool

name names

[TD 21]

Who from the 2001 Front Office is still around? It's not clear what role RC has in roster moves, if any, these days. That only leaves Pop. It's also not clear what role Pop has on draft day - are these Pop's picks or Wright's? I would venture to guess (though I'm not sure) that the scouting team is completely different. For that reason, I wouldn't use the 2001 FO as evidence that this FO has experience building from the ground up (ignoring the fact that the 2001 FO had the virtue of having two fully developed MVPs and all-time greats already on the team, granted Robinson was about to start tailing off pretty rapidly, but in 2001 he was coming off an All-Star performance, finished top 10 in MVP voting, was All-NBA 3rd Team).

Who cares if it's unclear or Pop has the higher ranking role (POBO > GM), when you can play blame the (half) black man, you have to do it.

The idea that some relative nobody is unilaterally making significant decisions in an organization where the POBO and whatever involvement Buford has these days have built up more equity in than maybe anyone since Auerbach has anywhere, is absurd.

My guess is Wright and his staff work within' the rigid guidelines Pop and Buford have long abided by.

[KobesAchilles]

cool

name names
Name names of what? Of the report that came out about the Spursbeing blindsided? That was reported awhile ago. Name names of the missed/bad draft picks? There's alot. I mean what are you even talking about?

[Cry Havoc]

That's pretty hyperbolic. I'm not sure even the most chicken little of Spurs fans thinks Wemby is going to demand a trade after one year. There is, however, legitimate concern about the idea of this FO getting the best out of the Wemby era when they have (1) never built a contender from the ground up, (2) a pretty subpar recent draft record, and (3) extremely questionable in-game rotations, decisions and game management.

Hyperbolic?

Hyperbolic is sounding the alarm bells halfway into Wemby's rookie season.

Hyperbolic is making these completely unfounded assertions that Wemby is going to demand a trade soon, and no one even has the balls to say when that will be, because despite their claims of how fed-up Wemby already is, they know they don't know shit about anything going on behind the scenes. Spurstalk actually used to be a place for insider information instead of this petting zoo for angry fans who see the worst in every situation -- like the threads from 2014 calling for Pop to be fired shortly before we won a title.


This is a FO that added Wemby to last year's team and somehow got worse. I feel like a lot of fans are trying to pretend they expected this season, like it was part of the plan, when literally no one was predicting this before the season nor implying it should be the "planned" approach. The only reasons to be confident that they're going to be better next year as a result of adding a couple more rookies are: (1) The bar is extremely low, and (2) Wemby will be one year older.

If by "somehow" you mean playing our best players completely out of position with Sochan at the 1 and Wemby at the 3? Sure. It's been a trainwreck of a season. But I would put a thousand bucks of my own money to say that if we were sitting 5-8 games under 500 the same voices would be screeching about the exact same things, blaming Pop for not getting the team to the playoffs, blaming everyone and everything in the organization just like they have been for the past 8+ years on this site, ever since the trolls ran most of the decent posters off.

[Cry Havoc]

This thread has backfired tremendously :lol

You're right, it's just more reinforcement of the utter laughingstock that this entire forum has become. I'm not even 1% surprised. Spurstalk used to have the best Spurs fans in the country, now it's a haven for the worst, one that actually cites ESPN, the worst sports site in the fucking world, as a reputable source because it confirms their own narrative.

[ambchang]

The entire point of the thread is, people would only pick the sources that back up their preconceived point, and dismiss every single other thing contrary to their own.

[Cry Havoc]

ESPN reporters absolutely have better access than Finger. It’s not even debatable. When has a local guy ever broken a story in the past decade plus? Ever since Ludden left. For some reason people here like to shit on Windhorst but it’s pretty clear he has access. Ramona Sheldon has written way more inside stuff about the Spurs than Finger. And Woj?

It’s fine if you want to believe Wemby is happy and don’t want to jump off a cliff but acting like local reporters know shit is laughable.

ESPN reporters are also known to be the absolute worst shit-stirrers in the entire industry. ESPN thrives on clicks and engagement. Nothing else. They slap Stephen A Smith across their entire product. Their entire business model is to instigate as much drama as possible, and you fucking know it. It doesn't mean everything they post is schlock, but nothing they said should ever be taken on good faith. They're the sports equivalent of a rag at this point.

[Cry Havoc]

The entire point of the thread is, people would only pick the sources that back up their preconceived point, and dismiss every single other thing contrary to their own.

Absolutely. I don't trust a single thing that gets posted on ESPN that doesn't have a statistical/demonstrable basis in reality. None of it.

It doesn't mean that the quote I posted is true, either, and I don't think Wemby is going to wait until 2030 for the Spurs to get good, but ffs people have been on this since before the ASB. It's ludicrous. And ESPN will 100% force this story if it will drive clicks -- and the most hyped rookie the game has seen since LeBron is already a commercial force.

[timtonymanu]

The posters like Cry and T Park are funny. Always call this forum trash but still post on here anyway. Even posting with the hope that posters will side by them. You can post on Reddit if you want to be surrounded by slurpers. I’m sure there’s “better vibes” on there. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're right, it's just more reinforcement of the utter laughingstock that this entire forum has become. I'm not even 1% surprised. Spurstalk used to have the best Spurs fans in the country, now it's a haven for the worst, one that actually cites ESPN, the worst sports site in the fucking world, as a reputable source because it confirms their own narrative.

Crying about the shitposting when they claim victory helps.

[timtonymanu]

Cry havoc needs to bring back that faggy avatar he use to sport lol

[Cry Havoc]

The posters like Cry and T Park are funny. Always call this forum trash but still post on here anyway. Even posting with the hope that posters will side by them. You can post on Reddit if you want to be surrounded by slurpers. I’m sure there’s “better vibes” on there. :lol

I mean, I left for 4 years. I came back because I figured with Wemby there wouldn't be an entire forum in histrionics about how we're guaranteed to fail etc etc.

How wrong I was.

[Cry Havoc]

Cry havoc needs to bring back that faggy avatar he use to sport lol

God you're a boring fucking person.

[timtonymanu]

God you're a boring fucking person.

And so are you lol. Typical whiny douchebag.

[slick'81]

Its on the spurs to make him happy. Wemby will do the rest

[Spurminator]

Hyperbolic?

Hyperbolic is sounding the alarm bells halfway into Wemby's rookie season.

Hyperbolic is making these completely unfounded assertions that Wemby is going to demand a trade soon, and no one even has the balls to say when that will be, because despite their claims of how fed-up Wemby already is, they know they don't know shit about anything going on behind the scenes. Spurstalk actually used to be a place for insider information instead of this petting zoo for angry fans who see the worst in every situation -- like the threads from 2014 calling for Pop to be fired shortly before we won a title.

Like I said, I don't know anyone who has asserted that Wemby is going to demand a trade "soon." But it's rare for HOF level players to stick it out with the team they're drafted by. We were spoiled by DRob, Duncan, Parker, and Manu, but it's a roll of the dice to assume that one of the top young players in the league is going to resign after his rookie contract and 4-5 "rebuild" seasons. So this thing needs to start showing some promise at some point.

Maybe the problem is we don't discuss specifics enough. When do you think this team should be a Playoff team? When do you think it should be a Conference Title contender? Championship contender?

Myself, I think we should be in the Playoffs next year, and I hope the "plan" has us in serious contention by the end of Wemby's rookie contract.


If by "somehow" you mean playing our best players completely out of position with Sochan at the 1 and Wemby at the 3? Sure. It's been a trainwreck of a season.

Decisions made by those in charge of "the plan," so you can see why I don't have your (maybe) confidence that "the plan" is foolproof and destined to succeed.


But I would put a thousand bucks of my own money to say that if we were sitting 5-8 games under 500 the same voices would be screeching about the exact same things, blaming Pop for not getting the team to the playoffs, blaming everyone and everything in the organization just like they have been for the past 8+ years on this site, ever since the trolls ran most of the decent posters off.

Well, I wouldn't. 5-8 games below .500 seems like a reasonable goal for a 22 win team that added a 20-10-4 top pick in the offseason, if not even a bit of a stretch.

Anyway I haven't posted here that regularly in the past ten years outside of the Political Forum but from what I can see this place is a lot more tolerable than it was back then, when it was just a Manu vs. Parker trollfest. I see a lot of reasonable concerns being thrown out, and a lot of decent talk about free agent pursuits. I also see posters who are super sensitive (for some reason) to any criticism of their team or the possibility of changes to the current roster moving forward outside of just keeping all draft picks and building a Championship team from there.

[timtonymanu]

I mean, I left for 4 years. I came back because I figured with Wemby there wouldn't be an entire forum in histrionics about how we're guaranteed to fail etc etc.

How wrong I was.

Yeah you haven’t been in 4 years so as usual you call the forum trash when no one agrees with your dumb take.

:cry this place is not PC enough.
:cry mods please delete
:cry all the good posters are gone.

[Cry Havoc]

Like I said, I don't know anyone who has asserted that Wemby is going to demand a trade "soon." But it's rare for HOF level players to stick it out with the team they're drafted by. We were spoiled by DRob, Duncan, Parker, and Manu, but it's a roll of the dice to assume that one of the top young players in the league is going to resign after his rookie contract and 4-5 "rebuild" seasons. So this thing needs to start showing some promise at some point.

Maybe the problem is we don't discuss specifics enough. When do you think this team should be a Playoff team? When do you think it should be a Conference Title contender? Championship contender?

Myself, I think we should be in the Playoffs next year, and I hope the "plan" has us in serious contention by the end of Wemby's rookie contract.

I would say we have 3ish years from now before Wemby starts really turning the heat up. That's not a ton of time, but it's certainly more than the posters here + ESPN seem to be indicating. Next year we should be within a stone's throw of the play-in, the season after that I expect us to be contending for a top 4 seed as Wemby starts to enter his early prime years. Who knows after that but I think the 27 season will be the watershed moment for the Spurs to really start scaring teams, if not before.


Decisions made by those in charge of "the plan," so you can see why I don't have your (maybe) confidence that "the plan" is foolproof and destined to succeed.

I mean, it's a certainty that Pop&Co are going to make mistakes. And I'm not even sure if you can call it a mistake -- we gave every indication of tanking to start the season by letting Wemby fool around and turn the ball over relentlessly, and that seems to have already paid off in the player he's currently becoming. I certainly don't think the plan is foolproof and there are no guarantees of rings in the NBA no matter how good your players are, you're 1 injury away from watching the Conference Finals from a couch, but the idea that they're destined to fail because of this one season seems equally silly.



Well, I wouldn't. 5-8 games below .500 seems like a reasonable goal for a 22 win team that added a 20-10-4 top pick in the offseason, if not even a bit of a stretch.

Vegas had us at 28 wins when the season started, so they weren't expecting much from this squad. I'm not sure what 28 wins does for us. As it stands, we're set up to take another big swing in the draft and come out better for it next year. If we don't win 35-40 games next year, then sure, it'll be time to be a little concerned, but even then, as young as this team is they need time to mature and we need another star alongside Wemby, even if Vassell continues to improve. Getting a top flight player would revolutionize this team overnight, it's not going to come quickly or easily, esp given how spartan the FA market looks this offseason aside from a couple of notable standouts.


Anyway I haven't posted here that regularly in the past ten years outside of the Political Forum but from what I can see this place is a lot more tolerable than it was back then, when it was just a Manu vs. Parker trollfest. I see a lot of reasonable concerns being thrown out, and a lot of decent talk about free agent pursuits. I also see posters who are super sensitive (for some reason) to any criticism of their team or the possibility of changes to the current roster moving forward outside of just keeping all draft picks and building a Championship team from there.

Those were terrible days for sure, but the histrionics remain (along with some decent discussion). You'd think we'd at least be able to enjoy the rookie season of a once-ever player.

[scott]

Maybe the problem is we don't discuss specifics enough. When do you think this team should be a Playoff team? When do you think it should be a Conference Title contender? Championship contender?

Myself, I think we should be in the Playoffs next year, and I hope the "plan" has us in serious contention by the end of Wemby's rookie contract.

I think these are great questions we should ask ourselves and set expectations. I agree with you generally, though play-in contention next year is my marker, with solid play-off berth, even contending for a Top 4 spot, the year after. Being considered a legit contender by the end of Wemby's rookie deal being the main goal.

I have noticed that even those who are a little more apologetic for this season, tend to be aligned with the vision for next year: play-in contention being an appropriate marker. Hopefully we won't find out what people are saying if we fall short of that goal.


Decisions made by those in charge of "the plan," so you can see why I don't have your (maybe) confidence that "the plan" is foolproof and destined to succeed.





This is my beef as well. I have no doubt there is a plan, I just haven't been given any recent evidence to trust in those who have devised and will execute it. The only thing I've seen out of this current FO is the ability to tear down the team, to which, I say they did a great job actually. They got us THE most prized #1 pick, maybe of all time, and loaded us up with draft assets. That's an A+ in my book. However, that is a different skillset that building the team back up and there is not really a lot of evidence pointing to that they can do it.

RC and Pop, for however much they are involved, never really had do it. Those closest either of them have come to that experience we as assistants under Larry Brown, but they were in coaching roles, not FO roles, at the time. When they both joined the FO here, the Spurs were already a winning franchise who got lucky and landed Duncan.

Brian Wright's career experience is with the Magic, the Pistons and the Spurs. He was here for our amazing 2016-17 season, and then has kinda watched it all fall apart. While the part of the rebuild that involves demolition has been impressive, the team building aspects really haven't been. I give Wright a bit of a pass though because it's not entirely clear how much autonomy and empowerment he has. Is the plan his, or is the plan Pop's? Has the plan even started yet?

RC and Pop are legend's, but neither they, nor Wright, have direct experience with the rebuilding job necessary here, and their track record at talent identification and management as of late hasn't been all that impressive. I keep asking, and there are few takers: what has this FO done of late to give confidence that they can turn this around? The only answers I've really gotten so far as one of 1) "I like what they've done with Wemby this season" or 2) "They have have earned the benefit of the doubt". Each individual can decide on their own whether those answers are sufficient. They aren't for me, but I'm just one person.

[vy65]

Absolutely. I don't trust a single thing that gets posted on ESPN that doesn't have a statistical/demonstrable basis in reality. None of it.

It doesn't mean that the quote I posted is true, either, and I don't think Wemby is going to wait until 2030 for the Spurs to get good, but ffs people have been on this since before the ASB. It's ludicrous. And ESPN will 100% force this story if it will drive clicks -- and the most hyped rookie the game has seen since LeBron is already a commercial force.

Who does Adrian Wojnarowski work for? You don't trust any of his reporting?

[KingKev]

This is a good, interesting point and may be a source of conflict. Pop has a different timeline than Wemby, by simple virtue of where they are in their careers. Pop may view this long process that culminates another NBA title, whereas Wemby sees a future with multiple titles over his career. Wemby likely has 4+ titles as his goal, based on the standards he sets for himself otherwise. He doesn't merely want to be one of the greats, he wants to be THE greatest. So taking 7-years to win his first may not align with Wemby's vision, whereas it may be just fine for Pop.

Of course, all just speculation.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. This can only be the year we tank during the Wemby years and only to get him a wing man capable of putting in work.

I just watched a Jonathon Simmons mixtape today and realized his 2016-17 campaign would rival Vassell as our second best player currently.

[MannyIsGod]

ESPN reporters are also known to be the absolute worst shit-stirrers in the entire industry. ESPN thrives on clicks and engagement. Nothing else. They slap Stephen A Smith across their entire product. Their entire business model is to instigate as much drama as possible, and you fucking know it. It doesn't mean everything they post is schlock, but nothing they said should ever be taken on good faith. They're the sports equivalent of a rag at this point.

ESPN Reporters - especially the ones I mentioned - constantly break stories. They always get scoops. Furthermore, by what you've described, I'm not even sure you've actually watched/listened to what has been said from the people I mentioned about Wemby. No one is pushing some narrative that he's going to demand a trade now or that he's fuming or doing anything destructive. I just think you're being ridiculous if you think Finger is a better source for what Wemby and his team are thinking than the people who work with ESPN. it's simply not the case and there is zero reason to believe it is.

All the crying I see about ESPN on here is mostly fans just being upset at what is said. That's it. And I'm not talking about talking heads on the TV who are there just to host talkshows and get viewership by yelilng really loudly at each other. I'm talking about the people who actually report or break news which is why I specifically listed the 3 that I did.

EDIT: And honestly, its not about ESPN. It's about posting something Finger said simply because you liked what it was. It's conformation bias. No one here has any basis to think the local guys have any notable access at all. They constantly get scopped by national media.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ESPN Reporters - especially the ones I mentioned - constantly break stories. They always get scoops. Furthermore, by what you've described, I'm not even sure you've actually watched/listened to what has been said from the people I mentioned about Wemby. No one is pushing some narrative that he's going to demand a trade now or that he's fuming or doing anything destructive. I just think you're being ridiculous if you think Finger is a better source for what Wemby and his team are thinking than the people who work with ESPN. it's simply not the case and there is zero reason to believe it is.

All the crying I see about ESPN on here is mostly fans just being upset at what is said. That's it. And I'm not talking about talking heads on the TV who are there just to host talkshows and get viewership by yelilng really loudly at each other. I'm talking about the people who actually report or break news which is why I specifically listed the 3 that I did.

EDIT: And honestly, its not about ESPN. It's about posting something Finger said simply because you liked what it was. It's conformation bias. No one here has any basis to think the local guys have any notable access at all. They constantly get scopped by national media.

some of the very best reporters but that is not all they do. The vast majority of the noise on this issue regarding Wemby is admitted straight speculation.

As for the SA reporters I think the zeitgeist around here misses the point. they are never going to have access to all the agents and executives. The Spurs are notoriously closed mouthed. That does not mean that they still don't have access that other's do not when it comes to their local organization.

[Guru of Nothing]

ESPN Reporters - especially the ones I mentioned - constantly break stories. They always get scoops. Furthermore, by what you've described, I'm not even sure you've actually watched/listened to what has been said from the people I mentioned about Wemby. No one is pushing some narrative that he's going to demand a trade now or that he's fuming or doing anything destructive. I just think you're being ridiculous if you think Finger is a better source for what Wemby and his team are thinking than the people who work with ESPN. it's simply not the case and there is zero reason to believe it is.

All the crying I see about ESPN on here is mostly fans just being upset at what is said. That's it. And I'm not talking about talking heads on the TV who are there just to host talkshows and get viewership by yelilng really loudly at each other. I'm talking about the people who actually report or break news which is why I specifically listed the 3 that I did.

EDIT: And honestly, its not about ESPN. It's about posting something Finger said simply because you liked what it was. It's conformation bias. No one here has any basis to think the local guys have any notable access at all. They constantly get scopped by national media.

I hope that Reed Sheppard grows up to be 6'8" after the Spurs draft him in the first round. That's my conformation bias.

[MannyIsGod]

some of the very best reporters but that is not all they do. The vast majority of the noise on this issue regarding Wemby is admitted straight speculation.

As for the SA reporters I think the zeitgeist around here misses the point. they are never going to have access to all the agents and executives. The Spurs are notoriously closed mouthed. That does not mean that they still don't have access that other's do not when it comes to their local organization.

The only access they have is being able to be at every Spurs event of any kind in person. But so what? It's not 1980 or even 2000 anymore. Everything is online and if Victory and his team want to get a story out they're not going to go to Mike Finger. They're going to go with the national media. I'm thousands of miles from SA and I have watched virtually every minute Wemby has played this year. They have nothing meaningfully that the ESPN reporters have.

And honestly I dont' get why anyone who has actually watched the segments on ESPN about this is even upset. They're laying out virtually the same timeline people have laid out in this thread. For me, given the reporting and how Wemby has carried himself it is ABUNDANTLY clear that he has an expectation that we will be competing for a playoff spot next year and that the Spurs are going to make the necessary moves to make that happen. Wemby isn't trying to be at the bottom of the lottery next year, that is what ESPN is reporting, and I don't know how anyone who's paying attention could think that isn't anything but true.

[MannyIsGod]

I hope that Reed Sheppard grows up to be 6'8" after the Spurs draft him in the first round. That's my conformation bias.

LOL. I was always trash at spelling, Matt. Hope you're well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The only access they have is being able to be at every Spurs event of any kind in person. But so what? It's not 1980 or even 2000 anymore. Everything is online and if Victory and his team want to get a story out they're not going to go to Mike Finger. They're going to go with the national media. I'm thousands of miles from SA and I have watched virtually every minute Wemby has played this year. They have nothing meaningfully that the ESPN reporters have.

And honestly I dont' get why anyone who has actually watched the segments on ESPN about this is even upset. They're laying out virtually the same timeline people have laid out in this thread. For me, given the reporting and how Wemby has carried himself it is ABUNDANTLY clear that he has an expectation that we will be competing for a playoff spot next year and that the Spurs are going to make the necessary moves to make that happen. Wemby isn't trying to be at the bottom of the lottery next year, that is what ESPN is reporting, and I don't know how anyone who's paying attention could think that isn't anything but true.

press access including all of the after sessions of PCs and the like, yes. that is access that ESPN and STers do not enjoy.

[itzsoweezee]

ESPN Reporters - especially the ones I mentioned - constantly break stories. They always get scoops. Furthermore, by what you've described, I'm not even sure you've actually watched/listened to what has been said from the people I mentioned about Wemby. No one is pushing some narrative that he's going to demand a trade now or that he's fuming or doing anything destructive. I just think you're being ridiculous if you think Finger is a better source for what Wemby and his team are thinking than the people who work with ESPN. it's simply not the case and there is zero reason to believe it is.

All the crying I see about ESPN on here is mostly fans just being upset at what is said. That's it. And I'm not talking about talking heads on the TV who are there just to host talkshows and get viewership by yelilng really loudly at each other. I'm talking about the people who actually report or break news which is why I specifically listed the 3 that I did.

EDIT: And honestly, its not about ESPN. It's about posting something Finger said simply because you liked what it was. It's conformation bias. No one here has any basis to think the local guys have any notable access at all. They constantly get scopped by national media.

Yup. And finger didn’t even say anything of substance in his stupid quote. Just some pointless musings about what he hears from people with whom he talks with about the spurs. Nothing from wemby or wemby’s camp, or even any insider.

[ambchang]

Multiple posters on the forum are spurs insiders it seems. Fully aware of the inner workings of the spurs organization and the world of sports journalism. But if all else fails, throw in random what ifs to anything that is contrary to their own point.

But what if ESPN has an agenda? Nope. That is not true, what we somehow have to question though is an organization that is well respected for over 30 years, one that was able to rebuild a team with 3 HoFers running at the end of their careers until their cornerstone got homesick. So what do we do? What SHOULD we do? We should listen to a bunch of highly knowledgable fans fearmongering so that they can get Trae young, despite what happened with the bucks tag got demonstratively worse with a better Trae young and got rid of steadying hand like Jrue holiday. Love this forum.

[TD 21]

Lillard was (is?) tail end of prime, the Bucks depleted their assets over the years and are old. No matter how it turns out, it was a no brainer considering they've repeatedly melted down in the half court offensively during this run in the playoffs and only won a championship because of the Nets and probably Clippers injuries.

That's nothing like the Spurs situation would be with Young.

[Cry Havoc]

Multiple posters on the forum are spurs insiders it seems. Fully aware of the inner workings of the spurs organization and the world of sports journalism. But if all else fails, throw in random what ifs to anything that is contrary to their own point.

But what if ESPN has an agenda? Nope. That is not true, what we somehow have to question though is an organization that is well respected for over 30 years, one that was able to rebuild a team with 3 HoFers running at the end of their careers until their cornerstone got homesick. So what do we do? What SHOULD we do? We should listen to a bunch of highly knowledgable fans fearmongering so that they can get Trae young, despite what happened with the bucks tag got demonstratively worse with a better Trae young and got rid of steadying hand like Jrue holiday. Love this forum.

Sanity, it's good to read ye.

[timtonymanu]

Multiple posters on the forum are spurs insiders it seems. Fully aware of the inner workings of the spurs organization and the world of sports journalism. But if all else fails, throw in random what ifs to anything that is contrary to their own point.

But what if ESPN has an agenda? Nope. That is not true, what we somehow have to question though is an organization that is well respected for over 30 years, one that was able to rebuild a team with 3 HoFers running at the end of their careers until their cornerstone got homesick. So what do we do? What SHOULD we do? We should listen to a bunch of highly knowledgable fans fearmongering so that they can get Trae young, despite what happened with the bucks tag got demonstratively worse with a better Trae young and got rid of steadying hand like Jrue holiday. Love this forum.

Do the spurs have any player of jrue holiday’s caliber that they will get worse if they traded said player? No they don’t. Such a dumb comparison, of course Cry is on board because it fits his agenda lol.

[MannyIsGod]

Just so I know how to respond, who is the steady hand we’re afraid to get rid of on this team. Is it Brandan, Wesley, or Collin’s? Shudder to think of what might become of our record if we get rid of one of those steady hands and replace them with actual NBA talent.

[vy65]

it’d be a national travesty if we got rid of Julian Champegnie’s steadying 5.7 points a game

[timtonymanu]

Yeah the sniffer fans are okay to endorse a flasher that has no talent but don’t want an actual talented star because :cry his teammates didn’t vote for him in the all star game.

Yeah we should keep surrounding Wemby with the Zach Collins and Bryn Forbes of the world.

Yeah Wemby doesn’t need help. He has teammates full of culture.

[offset formation]

Sure Wembys on board until he's not, just like nephew.

We had the best team stat wise in our history in 2016. We could have probably kept it rolling under him and other FAs wanting to play with him for years after neph went full bitch.

[Cry Havoc]

Just so I know how to respond, who is the steady hand we’re afraid to get rid of on this team. Is it Brandan, Wesley, or Collin’s? Shudder to think of what might become of our record if we get rid of one of those steady hands and replace them with actual NBA talent.

Yeah, that's the other thing that baffles me about current discussions on ST.

Who's untouchable other than Wemby? I mean, I wouldn't even say no to trading Vassell if the deal was right. It'd have to be a sweet haul, but everyone, everyone is expendable right now.

[exstatic]

Yeah you haven’t been in 4 years so as usual you call the forum trash when no one agrees with your dumb take.

:cry this place is not PC enough.
:cry mods please delete
:cry all the good posters are gone.
It’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it’s a matter of backing your opinion with facts or stats. The general level of posting here is misogynistic and homophobic, with a side of “haha,you’re a sniffer” as the most complicated construct in the post.

[ambchang]

Do the spurs have any player of jrue holiday’s caliber that they will get worse if they traded said player? No they don’t. Such a dumb comparison, of course Cry is on board because it fits his agenda lol.

Yeah. Point is to find a holiday mold guy. Not Lillard mold.

[ambchang]

So now the goal post has gone from “we must get Trae young because wemby demands excellence” to “the sniffers are idiots because they aren’t willing to trade anyone” which is a total strawman nobody ever suggested.

[vander]

Yeah, that's the other thing that baffles me about current discussions on ST.

Who's untouchable other than Wemby? I mean, I wouldn't even say no to trading Vassell if the deal was right. It'd have to be a sweet haul, but everyone, everyone is expendable right now.

Great endorsement of current PATFO's drafting ability right there.
But I'm sure now that Wemby is here they will suddenly become competent

[Cry Havoc]

Great endorsement of current PATFO's drafting ability right there.
But I'm sure now that Wemby is here they will suddenly become competent

Other than Boston and Denver, how many teams in the league have two completely untouchable players?

Minnesota, OKC? Maybe Sacramento?

Superstar level talent doesn't fall out of trees. And every single team on the league passed on Jokic.

[TD 21]

Yeah. Point is to find a holiday mold guy. Not Lillard mold.

:lmao Virtually everyone prefers the non liability type; good luck finding it is the point.

But again, without the Nets injuries the Bucks in the Holiday era were a bust in the half court offensively in the playoffs because they lacked high end play making. It's the same reason the Celtics and Clippers haven't been great either.

[Ariel]

Yeah. Point is to find a holiday mold guy. Not Lillard mold.:lmao Virtually everyone prefers the non liability type; good luck finding it is the point.

But again, without the Nets injuries the Bucks in the Holiday era were a bust in the half court offensively in the playoffs because they lacked high end play making. It's the same reason the Celtics and Clippers haven't been great either.
https://i.ibb.co/27FXwjW/dw.png
:cry

[Spursfanfromafar]

https://i.ibb.co/27FXwjW/dw.png
:cry

One of my favourite players ever as a Spur. He and Poeltl were very good relative to their talent. Just unfortunate that they came in between the Duncan and Wemby eras.

[Ariel]

One of my favourite players ever as a Spur. He and Poeltl were very good relative to their talent. Just unfortunate that they came in between the Duncan and Wemby eras.
He should hit free agency a year from now (unless he decides to sign below his market value), and Boston is at the 2nd apron, so I'm hoping I'm not deluding myself and there's a chance.

[Tyronn Lue]

Yeah, that's the other thing that baffles me about current discussions on ST.

Who's untouchable other than Wemby? I mean, I wouldn't even say no to trading Vassell if the deal was right. It'd have to be a sweet haul, but everyone, everyone is expendable right now.
Some aren't just expendable, they are disposable.

[Spursfanfromafar]

He should hit free agency a year from now (unless he decides to sign below his market value), and Boston is at the 2nd apron, so I'm hoping I'm not deluding myself and there's a chance.

Indeed. Although, I think, Boston will try to trade Brown for functional parts (especially so if they win the championship this year) and retain White for a much cheaper contract.

[rankingtear]

Meaning you cannot fill your roster with developing players and expect everyone to come along at the same speed, with the same upside. There are players even starting for the Spurs who have no obvious upside. There's nothing remarkable about anyone on the Spurs not named Victor Wembanyama. Sure there are some pedestrian level shooters and Vassell is above small market average for a role player (he's not a star), but from Collins to Julian, these guys are all bench players on any other team and Julian probably doesn't even make another team who isn't tanking.

You don't need 5 superstars, but you need some more senior players on the team. Right now you have a prodigy learning chess in group lock step with special ed kids.

It almost feels like Pop is hesitant to even consider Victor a franchise guy, like he wants to give everyone the same consideration. Not all players will be of the Tim Duncan or David Robinson patience and obedience level.

Even if the current guys have no obvious upside, some still can function as a placeholder on your preferred playstyle moving forward. Like Collins is a 5 out center that can find cutters and run dribble handoffs. Julian is a big wing who can cut and spot up and provide rim detterance when Sochan is on POA. OKC did this with their center rotation before Chet their system is based on a 5 out center who can shoot they shuffled through Poku, JRE, Muscala, Roby, Jaylin, those guys have no obvious upside but those guys can be placeholders and there is zero cost on getting or cutting them. Now they are running their system for 3 years and there is zero friction when Chet comes in.

[ambchang]

:lmao Virtually everyone prefers the non liability type; good luck finding it is the point.

But again, without the Nets injuries the Bucks in the Holiday era were a bust in the half court offensively in the playoffs because they lacked high end play making. It's the same reason the Celtics and Clippers haven't been great either.

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a title (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.

[pad300]

https://i.ibb.co/27FXwjW/dw.png
:cry

Derrick is good, and not a defensive liability, but he's not an elite playmaker either...

[Mikesatx]

So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.

Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more competitive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

[Ariel]

Derrick is good, and not a defensive liability, but he's not an elite playmaker either...
Got it. Will look for a Chris Paul level playmaker, who is also a Steph Curry level scorer and a Jrue Holiday level defender, at Blake Wesley's age, making Tre Jones type money, with a contract that runs as long as Devin Vassell's, and as easy to get as John Collins. Just wait.:drunk

[spurraider21]

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a title (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.
if we were to trade for trae in the offseason, say around the draft, if i understand correctly he wouldnt even be eligible to sign a super-max extension starting at 35% of the cap. intsead, he'd likely opt for a shorter extension at 30% so that he can be eligible for the big 35%er later

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it’s a matter of backing your opinion with facts or stats. The general level of posting here is misogynistic and homophobic, with a side of “haha,you’re a sniffer” as the most complicated construct in the post.

says the guy who doesn‘t even know the NBA standings when he‘s tryin to make an argument

[MannyIsGod]

So now the goal post has gone from “we must get Trae young because wemby demands excellence” to “the sniffers are idiots because they aren’t willing to trade anyone” which is a total strawman nobody ever suggested.

Almost no one had the view that the Spurs had to trade for young so that goalpost you say is being moved is just a bullshit argument you made up. I would be ok with a young trade if the price is right and I think people are idiots if they dismiss a possible deal out of hand.

So many of you make bad faith arguments that misconstrue positions to make them seem outlandish and it’s just a stupid thing to do when the arguments are literally written down for all to see. I don’t know that there was no one who said we had to trade for Trae Young but I do no that no one Id consider a good poster said that so what are you even talking about?

[MannyIsGod]

Furthermore I didn’t say you weren’t willing to trade anyone but asked you to clarify who you considered untradeable on this team since you yourself are the one who compared us making a deal to a contender moving a fringe all star who is also a great defender. There is no one on the team who you can compare to Holiday and we are not where the bucks are but you decided to make that comparison so don’t be surprised when people point out how nonsensical of a comparison you just made.

[Tyronn Lue]

Even if the current guys have no obvious upside, some still can function as a placeholder on your preferred playstyle moving forward. Like Collins is a 5 out center that can find cutters and run dribble handoffs. Julian is a big wing who can cut and spot up and provide rim detterance when Sochan is on POA. OKC did this with their center rotation before Chet their system is based on a 5 out center who can shoot they shuffled through Poku, JRE, Muscala, Roby, Jaylin, those guys have no obvious upside but those guys can be placeholders and there is zero cost on getting or cutting them. Now they are running their system for 3 years and there is zero friction when Chet comes in.
Your "zero cost" ignores the obvious cost of team progression, which Victor is tallying. Chet isn't Victor. Chet's maybe the 3rd option.


So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.
Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more competitive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

The choices weren't to go all in on talent vs what they did. There are a lot of in between options, like bringing in a veteran player at a lower cost than a prime guy to help provide some guidance for the entire team. You're right in saying SA isn't an attractive landing spot for big time free agents, but there are plenty of swing guys who would take a role in SA. The Spurs aren't interested. They appear to be all hat, no cattle when it comes to building a team. The talk is there, but even in Philly that "trust the process" mantra came with names like Butler and Harden. What process should Victor trust? The developmental league process?

[ambchang]

if we were to trade for trae in the offseason, say around the draft, if i understand correctly he wouldnt even be eligible to sign a super-max extension starting at 35% of the cap. intsead, he'd likely opt for a shorter extension at 30% so that he can be eligible for the big 35%er later

If the price is right the spurs would be stupid not to go for it. But then what is right? All of the Atlanta picks (no for me)? KJ plus fillers plus a few of the Atlanta picks plus the Chicago pick (sort of for me)? It’s hard to say. But to say Trae is the one and we will be competing with him and some slight upgrades to the roster? I don’t agree with that. At best Trae is a stepping stone and not the final major piece.

You want the ball in wembys hands. Not anyone else.

[ambchang]

Almost no one had the view that the Spurs had to trade for young so that goalpost you say is being moved is just a bullshit argument you made up. I would be ok with a young trade if the price is right and I think people are idiots if they dismiss a possible deal out of hand.

So many of you make bad faith arguments that misconstrue positions to make them seem outlandish and it’s just a stupid thing to do when the arguments are literally written down for all to see. I don’t know that there was no one who said we had to trade for Trae Young but I do no that no one Id consider a good poster said that so what are you even talking about?

No one made the argument we had to trade for Trae? Not sure if we are reading the same threads.

[ambchang]

Furthermore I didn’t say you weren’t willing to trade anyone but asked you to clarify who you considered untradeable on this team since you yourself are the one who compared us making a deal to a contender moving a fringe all star who is also a great defender. There is no one on the team who you can compare to Holiday and we are not where the bucks are but you decided to make that comparison so don’t be surprised when people point out how nonsensical of a comparison you just made.

Point wasn’t we have that trade in mind. What my point was a Trae wemby pairing isn’t the unstoppable force some in the forum is thinking it would be.

[Tyronn Lue]

It comes down to whether the Spurs think Victor is the franchise piece to build around. Maybe they don't. Maybe they were ready to go into longer term money saving mode when they got Victor and now have to shit or get off the pot. No idea. They don't seem to know either.

[spurraider21]

If the price is right the spurs would be stupid not to go for it. But then what is right? All of the Atlanta picks (no for me)? KJ plus fillers plus a few of the Atlanta picks plus the Chicago pick (sort of for me)? It’s hard to say. But to say Trae is the one and we will be competing with him and some slight upgrades to the roster? I don’t agree with that. At best Trae is a stepping stone and not the final major piece.

You want the ball in wembys hands. Not anyone else.
sure but you also want wemby to get the ball into his hands in favorable positions without having to do all the work and tiring himself out

[Mikesatx]

I would have liked to see a veteran guy brought just to be more competitive. Especially at point guard. I’m assuming the number one objective is to build a championship caliber team for an extended period. If so bringing on that veteran or doing something in between might have provided more wins but hurt the chances of the objective. If the number one objective is to keep Wemby happy than I guess we do whatever that takes. Boils down to what he wants. Win now or win eventually but for a sustained period.

[TD 21]

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a title (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.

Middleton's injury definitely derailed their chance in '22, but again the Nuggets and Clippers were also derailed by injury and there's a half decade of evidence that indicates they labor in the half court offensively in the playoffs.

Lillard gives them a higher floor and lower ceiling which is fine because the steadier team they had wasn't winning another championship.

People like saying that, but how many of the elite small guards had a legit opportunity to win a championship? Most of their teams weren't true contenders, they had bad injury luck, they were miscast as the best/go-to player or a combination thereof.

So many are likely in for a rude awakening when they find out how difficult it'll be to essentially find a more dynamic White.

[Pauleta14]

So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.

Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more competitive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

There are PLENTY of things Spurs could’ve done a lot better mate…

I’d agree with u if the coming draft was talented or if the Spurs didn’t own a plethora of draft picks in coming years.

but the personnel, what PATFO seems to consider the core of the future … just sucks. There’s nobody aside Wemby that is worth keeping in this roster. None

yes Vassell included

no veterans might be the worst part of it, it confirms how PATFO think they’re smarter than anyone and there lack of humility.

pastly Spurs have been losing competent staff/coaches left and right for decades. It’s not an essay thing to find equivalent compétence and Spurs have drop considerably in terms of competence.

[Mikesatx]

I agree that the current roster outside of Wemby is expendable. I also think it’s tough to make decisions on how to build around a guy when you’re not quite sure what you have or how you want to use him. Seems to me that flexibility for now is very valuable. They should know now what they’ve got and how best to use him. The decisions made this draft/offseason will start to make the picture clearer for me.

Just curious, you mentioned plenty of things they could have done differently. What are your top two or three?

[ambchang]

sure but you also want wemby to get the ball into his hands in favorable positions without having to do all the work and tiring himself out

I think Tre actually did a decent job after he got back to the starting lineup. Not saying Tre is the answer long term, because he isn't, but I wouldn't mind having him mentoring a future high pick at PG who will be the one. If Tre is 6'4", I think he'd be the one, but too bad he isn't.


Middleton's injury definitely derailed their chance in '22, but again the Nuggets and Clippers were also derailed by injury and there's a half decade of evidence that indicates they labor in the half court offensively in the playoffs.

Lillard gives them a higher floor and lower ceiling which is fine because the steadier team they had wasn't winning another championship.

People like saying that, but how many of the elite small guards had a legit opportunity to win a championship? Most of their teams weren't true contenders, they had bad injury luck, they were miscast as the best/go-to player or a combination thereof.

So many are likely in for a rude awakening when they find out how difficult it'll be to essentially find a more dynamic White.

I don't doubt the Nuggets and Clippers injuries helped the Bucks, but the Clippers are injured every year, and the Nuggets weren't really all that ready back then. The Bucks played well, and I recalled the Suns being the favourites for that series. Jrue putting the clamps on CP0 and Booker at times really helped.

As for Lillard, I believe I posted when the trade happened that it is a down grade for the Bucks. Surprisingly I didn't get clowned much for that as I think most people saw the same things I did. Trae is similar to Lillard in game, and I would argue is the worse of the two players. Not saying Trae is a bad player, but I really fail to see how a ball dominant guard is someone we want for Wemby. There are some PGs out there who would work well with Wemby, not all of them attainable, but there are ones that would be great for the Spurs.

I would love Luka, Jamal Murray, Brunson, Jrue, (pipedreams), De'Aaron Fox, Derrick White, Cade. Quickley, Maxey, Nembhard (possible), but to a lesser extent Mike Conley (as a short term), Sexton, McConnell, Brogdon. They are not as sexy as Trae (most of them) but there are the players who can help upgrade the position without tying up our cap for a long time.

[TD 21]

I don't doubt the Nuggets and Clippers injuries helped the Bucks, but the Clippers are injured every year, and the Nuggets weren't really all that ready back then. The Bucks played well, and I recalled the Suns being the favourites for that series. Jrue putting the clamps on CP0 and Booker at times really helped.

As for Lillard, I believe I posted when the trade happened that it is a down grade for the Bucks. Surprisingly I didn't get clowned much for that as I think most people saw the same things I did. Trae is similar to Lillard in game, and I would argue is the worse of the two players. Not saying Trae is a bad player, but I really fail to see how a ball dominant guard is someone we want for Wemby. There are some PGs out there who would work well with Wemby, not all of them attainable, but there are ones that would be great for the Spurs.

I would love Luka, Jamal Murray, Brunson, Jrue, (pipedreams), De'Aaron Fox, Derrick White, Cade. Quickley, Maxey, Nembhard (possible), but to a lesser extent Mike Conley (as a short term), Sexton, McConnell, Brogdon. They are not as sexy as Trae (most of them) but there are the players who can help upgrade the position without tying up our cap for a long time.

The Nuggets were ready considering the state of the league then. They just weren't healthy enough to take advantage. Between Harden (he played but couldn't move) and Irving being injured and the 76ers melting down and bowing out to the Hawks, the path cleared. Then, they faced a small (poor matchup), superstar less Suns team.

Even Jokic needs Murray. The Spurs are going to need someone of at least that caliber offensively at some point. There seems to be this delusion that it'll just be easy to come by if they're patient, but they'll be hard pressed to find a better offensive talent than Young and again, the more dynamic version of White that anyone would want is a pipedream.

[ambchang]

The Nuggets were ready considering the state of the league then. They just weren't healthy enough to take advantage. Between Harden (he played but couldn't move) and Irving being injured and the 76ers melting down and bowing out to the Hawks, the path cleared. Then, they faced a small (poor matchup), superstar less Suns team.

Even Jokic needs Murray. The Spurs are going to need someone of at least that caliber offensively at some point. There seems to be this delusion that it'll just be easy to come by if they're patient, but they'll be hard pressed to find a better offensive talent than Young and again, the more dynamic version of White that anyone would want is a pipedream.

And Jamal makes $31M. At the end of the day my biggest concerns about Trae are, in order:
1) his salary
2) his defense
3) his rumoured unlikeability with his teammates


Also, I would like to have dejounte back. His contract is fantastic, he plays d, not sure if he can be an actual lead guard but between him and Vassell it would be a big backcourt that can, at least theoretically, cause all kinds of issues on d.

[vander]

Other than Boston and Denver, how many teams in the league have two completely untouchable players?

Minnesota, OKC? Maybe Sacramento?

Superstar level talent doesn't fall out of trees. And every single team on the league passed on Jokic.

They do seem to fall out of trees for the Spurs more than anyone else. PATFO didnt find Wemby, he was gifted. Everyone who they found in the last 5 years looks very expendable, at best, unless its coaching making them look bad.

[tbdog]

And Jamal makes $31M. At the end of the day my biggest concerns about Trae are, in order:
1) his salary
2) his defense
3) his rumoured unlikeability with his teammates


Also, I would like to have dejounte back. His contract is fantastic, he plays d, not sure if he can be an actual lead guard but between him and Vassell it would be a big backcourt that can, at least theoretically, cause all kinds of issues on d.

Yeah, I like Murray with Vassell. I prefer Trae more, but Murray has advantages as you said. Murray issue in Alt is that he can't guard SG effectively. He is better and harassing smaller guards and then punishing them in transition. So Alt vision Murray as secondary playmaker with Trae, while taking on the better defensive assignment. One of the issues with Trae, you need a legit 2 size player to play with him, and Murray just can't do that.

Here is the thing, I actually like Fultz and Tyus Jones being the next starting PG. They will come in 10mil cheaper and most importantly, won't cost assets to get. Then use those assets to splash for a legit SF like Bridges for example. Looking forward, I find it easier to find a starting calibre pg than a SF.

Edit* Also, I think the Trae Young rumours are legit.

[RC_Drunkford]

people don't seem to understand that you need offense too. The Spurs are one of the bottom 10 teams in offense. Our biggest issue is, that there's nobody who has the pull up ability that makes defenders go over the screen. This makes it easier for said player to drive, collapse the D and kick out to open shooters. Dejounte ain't that type of player, although I'd also welcome him back.

[exstatic]

They do seem to fall out of trees for the Spurs more than anyone else. PATFO didnt find Wemby, he was gifted. Everyone who they found in the last 5 years looks very expendable, at best, unless its coaching making them look bad.

Someone did the math after last year’s lottery, and the odds to grab all three of David, Tim, and Victor were 0.16%

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Someone did the math after last year’s lottery, and the odds to grab all three of David, Tim, and Victor were 0.16%

Good karma gifted in return for Pop's wokeness?

[tbdog]

Someone did the math after last year’s lottery, and the odds to grab all three of David, Tim, and Victor were 0.16%

Probably don't think to far into it. The likely you exist has more zeroes.

[CGD]

Good karma gifted in return for Pop's wokeness?

Yes, that’s exactly what happened

[TD 21]

And Jamal makes $31M. At the end of the day my biggest concerns about Trae are, in order:
1) his salary
2) his defense
3) his rumoured unlikeability with his teammates


Also, I would like to have dejounte back. His contract is fantastic, he plays d, not sure if he can be an actual lead guard but between him and Vassell it would be a big backcourt that can, at least theoretically, cause all kinds of issues on d.

Yeah and good luck checking every box no matter how patient they are and how many assets they possess.

Fair enough. I go back and forth on this myself. Ideally, I'd prefer they not have to resort to either, but sometimes circumstances dictate what you should do. It's why I expect them to pursue whichever the Hawks move this off season.

[exstatic]

SA: Hey, are you interested in trading DJ?
ATL: No, but we’re looking to move Trae.
SA: No thanks.

ATL, to everyone: we’ve talked to SA about a Trae trade.

[koriwhat]

Swing and a miss. It's okay though, probably the most intelligent guess you'll make on this board even if it's 100% wrong.

White as white can be but you used to have a little spice in your life. :tu :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Point wasn’t we have that trade in mind. What my point was a Trae wemby pairing isn’t the unstoppable force some in the forum is thinking it would be.

I mean what do you mean? Is it possible to build a contender with Wemby and Trae? 10000000000000000000%. Is it a guarantee that a team built off those two would be unstoppable? of course not. Who made that claim?

[ambchang]

I mean what do you mean? Is it possible to build a contender with Wemby and Trae? 10000000000000000000%. Is it a guarantee that a team built off those two would be unstoppable? of course not. Who made that claim?

People have been stating it would be an unstoppable pairing. Not necessarily win a title but unstoppable offensively. I don’t necessarily agree with it based on what I saw in Lillard and Giannis. I would imagine Trae would be significantly less effective with the all in wembys hands and the spurs will be worse off (esp in the long run) if the ball is in Trae’s hands instead of wembys hands.

Can they build a contender around wemby and Trae? I think it’s possible but it would be hard, especially with the money involved. They would still have to get a SF and a complete over haul of the bench. Sochan would likely have to be upgraded to a big with better perimeter offense and better rebounding (hope he can learn to be one). There would be little cap room for this if we have Trae, wemby (max extension) and Vassells contract in place.

[scott]

People have been stating it would be an unstoppable pairing. Not necessarily win a title but unstoppable offensively. I don’t necessarily agree with it based on what I saw in Lillard and Giannis. I would imagine Trae would be significantly less effective with the all in wembys hands and the spurs will be worse off (esp in the long run) if the ball is in Trae’s hands instead of wembys hands.

I mean, they are all just opinions... not guarantees, right? I don't know about unstoppable, but it would project to be very good. Whether it is the right "very good" or if the defensive issues would be overly problematic are fair questions though.


Can they build a contender around wemby and Trae? I think it’s possible but it would be hard, especially with the money involved. They would still have to get a SF and a complete over haul of the bench. Sochan would likely have to be upgraded to a big with better perimeter offense and better rebounding (hope he can learn to be one). There would be little cap room for this if we have Trae, wemby (max extension) and Vassells contract in place.

I've posted this in other threads, but the cap situation with Trae+Max Wemby+Devin really isn't that bad (around 70-72%) of the cap. It compares favorably to other big 3/big 4 situations around the league. The Spurs would also still have a variety of incoming FRPs to help balance the cap table. The question would be whether the Spurs will be okay with being over the cap (hopefully they are and we don't go through a early DRob era cheap ownership phase). Really, if Vassell is going to be part of a "big 3", his contract is really helpful to that situation. Personally, I'm not sure he's fully earned that deal yet, but the signs are he is on the way. If he does continue on the path he is going (and I think a better PG will help him tremendously, maybe as much or more than it will help Wemby) then his contract ends up being a tremendous value.

Lastly, it doesn't really matter if it is Trae or some other max player (say, Mitchell for example), it's going to be the same situation. They'll still be 70-72% of the cap, and the Spurs will still have to find a competent 3 (hopefully with this year's pick) and significantly upgrade the bench (the TOR pick could really help here).

Summarized: these issues are going to be the case no matter what. To me, the real question around Trae is whether he is the right guy (fair debate) and how much you're willing to give up (another fair debate). I do say that he is going to ultimately cost more than many on this board think - and that alone may make it not worth it. There is a very fair argument that DJM is the better acquisition (though I'm not giving ATL back what they gave us, maybe only the worst of SA/ATL '25 and the worst of SA/ATL '27 - essentially giving us three straight years of swaps - plus CHA)

[Tyronn Lue]

Someone did the math after last year’s lottery, and the odds to grab all three of David, Tim, and Victor were 0.16%
Probably same with any specific 3 1st overall picks, if you don't group the rest into one set and those three into the other.

[Bruno]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/popovich-spurs-rebuild-victor-wembanyama-18939581.php


I don't pretend to know what we're going to do. We have a lot of possibilities ahead of us, whether it's money in the bank or draft picks or being creative trade-wise. All those things are on the table. But aren't they for every team? I don't know why we're any different. We're just younger.

I don't know if there is any substance behind that quote but I quite like it. Spurs can't just do their rebuild with the draft. If there is a good trade or free agent opportunity, they had to take it. A full draft rebuild will likely be too slow with Wembanyama already being that good.

[spurs10]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/popovich-spurs-rebuild-victor-wembanyama-18939581.php


I don't know if there is any substance behind that quote but I quite like it. Spurs can't just do their rebuild with the draft. If there is a good trade or free agent opportunity, they had to take it. A full draft rebuild will likely be too slow with Wembanyama already being that good. This. Gonna need to pull out all the stops and support the draft picks with experienced players.

[Pauleta14]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/popovich-spurs-rebuild-victor-wembanyama-18939581.php


I don't know if there is any substance behind that quote but I quite like it. Spurs can't just do their rebuild with the draft. If there is a good trade or free agent opportunity, they had to take it. A full draft rebuild will likely be too slow with Wembanyama already being that good.

Try to watch the clip (pre game interview). It sounds more like the usual smart ass Pop trying to get away from a question.
basically a « maybe yes maybe not » type of answer.

If you listen to him in pre game interviews where he dares taking time to answer sometimes, Pop is in a long process mode.
If it was up to him he’d love to tank another season imo

[rjv]

Try to watch the clip (pre game interview). It sounds more like the usual smart ass Pop trying to get away from a question.
basically a « maybe yes maybe not » type of answer.

yeah, i mean why can't pop just tell us right now who they have on their draft board and what FAs or trades they may have recently considered? any other coach would have.

[Tyronn Lue]

I'll say this: If this team was a 5 card draw hand, you'd throw 4 cards down.

[TD 21]

The fact that Pop didn't outright dismiss the question of accelerating the re-build should tell anyone wondering what their intentions are this off season.

It wasn't long ago he was saying the usual "we can't skip any steps", "it takes time; look at OKC", etc.

[Dejounte]

I think they’ll be somewhat active but I don’t think it will be for Trae anymore. Just saw Trae unfollowed Wemby on IG. People say that’s stupid to think anything of it but these are the times and such things are a big deal among 20 year olds.

[Pauleta14]

yeah, i mean why can't pop just tell us right now who they have on their draft board and what FAs or trades they may have recently considered? any other coach would have.

Sure.

Try not missing the point next time tho

[Pauleta14]

The fact that Pop didn't outright dismiss the question of accelerating the re-build should tell anyone wondering what their intentions are this off season.

It wasn't long ago he was saying the usual "we can't skip any steps", "it takes time; look at OKC", etc.

Exactly.

I’m not expecting much change for next season. Same core same low IQ basketball same playmaking issues.

Pop looooves his development

[weeks]

I think they’ll be somewhat active but I don’t think it will be for Trae anymore. Just saw Trae unfollowed Wemby on IG. People say that’s stupid to think anything of it but these are the times and such things are a big deal among 20 year olds.

huh. i wonder why he would unfollow wemby?

[ducks]

...So what's the plan?

Learn about life
Basketball not

[poopbox]

Funny I was looking back at star players who got traded and they always say some variations of "I want to be here" or "I am patient" or "I want to win here" right before they ask for a trade.

[JPB]

Funny I was looking back at star players who got traded and they always say some variations of "I want to be here" or "I am patient" or "I want to win here" right before they ask for a trade.

That's probably part of the deal with their team. "Ok, we're doing our best to trade you where you want, but don't lower your value and help us get the most we can".

[RC_Drunkford]

huh. i wonder why he would unfollow wemby?

probably to tune down the trade rumor noise

[Knoxxx]

Just popping on here late to double check that OP has been sufficiently paddled for the excessive thread title length?