Were the Spurs tanking in 2023-24?

[MultiTroll]

Sniffers: It was CIA Pop playing the long game, his visionary uber skills getting us another lotto pick.
Sochan at point guard was pure Pop genius.

Realists: Sure Sniffers, whatever. We very realistically win 35 games this year with a competent lineup and strategy.

So why win 5 of the last 10 games? Going from potential #2 seed and probably #3 seed to now probably #5 seed?

*to be sure, last nights comeback win vs the Nuggets was a thing of beauty, good for the spirit. Including the foundation of the future Wemby.
But lets talk about the entire body of the season and the last 10 games.

[Leetonidas]

No. They just suck. Seems obvious now the coaching staff thought this team could compete better than last year and they underestimated how low IQ the roster is collectively. Anyone trying to tell you they were just tanking this season is probably just a sniffer trying to rationalize their dumbass play in prediction before the season started tbh

[Dex]

No. They just suck. Seems obvious now the coaching staff thought this team could compete better than last year and they underestimated how low IQ the roster is collectively. Anyone trying to tell you they were just tanking this season is probably just a sniffer trying to rationalize their dumbass play in prediction before the season started tbh

I think its a little of both.

I do believe the team THOUGHT they would be better than they are. They also tried to get cute with the Sochan PG experiment which was a failure considering he looked awful and still doesn't know how to make plays.

I think once the team got to around 4-25, Pop saw the writing on the wall and realized that even with significant improvements, we aren't a playoff team and it made no sense to get there. At that point, I think the goal was just to win enough games to keep Wemby happy.

The fact that the Spurs look more competitive now that they are playing their vets like Mamu and Graham goes to show the option was always there, they just never leaned into it.

[z0sa]

We were NOT tanking until the last 10 games or so. When Sochan and Vassell both went down, I believe PATFO (but not the players in any fashion) began a "true" tank, but it backfired because our bench guys don't have the inflated egos that apparently Vassell and perhaps Sochan/Keldon have. These guys at the end of the bench don't mind simply taking what an offense ENTIRELY centered on Wemby gives them, and we can see the results. THIS is what those of us who argued Wemby isn't getting the ball in his spots enough meant, at least, it's what I meant. I understand his usage rate has been very high, but the mindset behind his use was very, very off. Wemby must be the focal point on this roster, with guys like Vassell taking the same role that a Graham or Champagnie would. Not because of some personal slight, but because the Spurs are better that way! The only way out of that conundrum is adding more talent. If that's via the draft, well fantastic, but I don't see it being a stopgap at all (the draft).

[MultiTroll]

We were NOT tanking until the last 10 games or so. When Sochan and Vassell both went down, I believe PATFO (but not the players in any fashion) began a "true" tank, but it backfired because our bench guys don't have the inflated egos that apparently Vassell and perhaps Sochan/Keldon have. These guys at the end of the bench don't mind simply taking what an offense ENTIRELY centered on Wemby gives them, and we can see the results. THIS is what those of us who argued Wemby isn't getting the ball in his spots enough meant, at least, it's what I meant. I understand his usage rate has been very high, but the mindset behind his use was very, very off. Wemby must be the focal point on this roster, with guys like Vassell taking the same role that a Graham or Champagnie would. Not because of some personal slight, but because the Spurs are better that way!
Rack it.
Concur 100.

[MultiTroll]

I think once the team got to around 4-25, Pop saw the writing on the wall and realized that even with significant improvements, we aren't a playoff team and it made no sense to get there. At that point, I think the goal was just to win enough games to keep Wemby happy.

The fact that the Spurs look more competitive now that they are playing their vets like Mamu and Graham goes to show the option was always there, they just never leaned into it.
That soon huh?

Even after that realization*, Popped continued to play his pets while benching Mamu, Graham etc. Was only these last 10 games or so we've seen the lineup changes and the ball sharing that came with it. Also, notice how well Wemby shares the ball back when you have competent teamates looking to play team ball?

[SPURt]

They didn’t tank this year. Pop didn’t know how to play Wemby and Wemby didn’t know where he fits in the NBA. Wemby asked to be a 3/4 and didn’t want to play 5, hence Collins starting. Once they figured out where Wemby is most affective the players around him didn’t know how to play with/off him. Wemby also had to learn how to carry ass teammates. At this point, Wemby and Pop know the deal. They know what he can do and how to use him, and Wemby has learned how to make his teammates better, which is hard AF for a player his age.

Next year is going to be playoff year IF the FO can take what they learned this year and put better pieces around Wemby. I’m looking forward to it! As for the draft, I’d bet a firm handjob that whomever the Spurs select at 3 will still be there at 5. This draft has no can’t miss prospects, which gives the Spurs the green light to pick a surprise I’m sure Spurstalk will hate in the moment, then talk ourselves into lol

[MultiTroll]

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.5b0848733e96cea6d8eac73f0098b66b?rik=YuBajugl43S wPw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.uloc.de%2fscreenshots%2fc%2fc abf16_02_burns_grampa_basketball.jpg&ehk=F0AuRGhPRnblKV3lNFSFucjEBWeDDNSy7FhNtSNP%2fr8% 3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
Brett Brown (L) listening to Pop having an epiphany that perhaps the Sochan pg is not working.

[poopbox]

They absolutely were not tanking to start the year. Pop really thought in his head that Sochan at PG was a good idea, one of many reasons why he needs to be gone as head coach. They lost so many games early that there was no other option but to shift to a "tank" midseason.

Why win so many games? Because Wemby is that good of a basketball player. Even surrounding him with g leaguers he goes through 3 to 5 minute stretches 1 or twice a game where he dominates every aspect of the game. Pretty much since the all star break he has been so good that if the Spurs can just not get absolutely slaughtered while he is on the bench they have a 50 / 50 chance to win the game.

[poopbox]

They didn’t tank this year. Pop didn’t know how to play Wemby and Wemby didn’t know where he fits in the NBA. Wemby asked to be a 3/4 and didn’t want to play 5, hence Collins starting. Once they figured out where Wemby is most affective the players around him didn’t know how to play with/off him. Wemby also had to learn how to carry ass teammates. At this point, Wemby and Pop know the deal. They know what he can do and how to use him, and Wemby has learned how to make his teammates better, which is hard AF for a player his age.

Next year is going to be playoff year IF the FO can take what they learned this year and put better pieces around Wemby. I’m looking forward to it! As for the draft, I’d bet a firm handjob that whomever the Spurs select at 3 will still be there at 5. This draft has no can’t miss prospects, which gives the Spurs the green light to pick a surprise I’m sure Spurstalk will hate in the moment, then talk ourselves into lol

They didn't actually "figure out" anything. Bassey got hurt for the year. Then Collins had that ankle injury. Only then did Victor go to the 5. He only went to the 5 because we had no other viable options. Barlow had to be the backup 5, Pop didn't seem to know Mamu was even on the team, so that meant Victor had to start at the 5. Another reason why Pop needs to be gone. The single greatest thing that happened this season was Victor at the 5, and it happened because of injury not because of something our all time great coach figured out.

[MultiTroll]

They didn't actually "figure out" anything.
Rack it.
And Mamu and Graham only got minutes because of injuries to pets KJ and Sochan.
Thus the ball flow and competent BBIQ play began.

[scott]

What's fun is that there really are only two scenarios:

1) The Spurs weren't tanking, they just have poor roster construction coupled with some terrible coaching decisions

or

2) The Spurs were tanking, but they can't even do that right

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, the Vegas over/under number was 28.5, right? Looks like they were going to be a lottery team no matter what. Probably more of the same next season.

[MultiTroll]

^ Casual Phan weighs in. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

^ Casual Phan weighs in. :lol

You're hardcore?

:lmao

[exstatic]

The most common question over the last few games is why didn’t Pop play Mamu and Devonte much this year?

Because they were tanking. We need a forward who can shoot and rebound,and a guard who can run the,pick and roll, and shoot if the defender goes under. Mamu and Devonte fit those descriptions.

[MultiTroll]

Because they were tanking.
I see.
And who exactly or what exactly were they tanking for?

[SpursBills]

I mean like everything else it's not really a black and white answer, right? Front office took a risk playing Sochan at PG at the beginning of the year. They probably a) thought the payout was worth it if Sochan really could magically develop PG skills b) even if he wasn't a PG that it'd help his ball handling and development and c) didn't anticipate just how bad the team would look and the subsequent effect on Wemby when they played him at PG and d) assumed that hey, it's Wemby's first year, they've got plenty of time to develop.

They've always had a hard on for big guards going back the last several years, so they resisted playing Tre Jones and Devonte because they figured that a roster with either of those guys at the point would have a hard ceiling in the future and it'd be easier to tolerate the developmental pain early rather than have a mediocre small guard established early, find out it doesn't work deep in the playoffs, and then go back and try and find a big guard later as the team is trying to compete. Ditto with Mamu and his defensive limitations. Regarding Zach Collins, they probably figured that playing a big guy at center with passing and theoretical perimeter skills next to Wemby was preferable to having a stick-thin Wemby risk injury early in his career and killing their cash cow for the next decade.

So they willingly played a worse younger lineup featuring Sochan hoping that he'd develop into the kind of player who could contribute down the road, as well as Collins to try and protect Wemby physically. Eventually, they realized they bet wrong when a) the team was a complete disaster without an actual PG and b) Wemby turned out way better than anyone expected to accelerate the timeline and c) Wemby actually held up physically as a full time 5. So they pivoted to finally playing Tre Jones full time and magically the Spurs turned into a 30-35 win quality team after the new year based on point differential. Finally toward the end of the season, the team starts to gel winning 3 in a row, and Sochan and Vassell happen to get injured. You're forced to play Devonte and Mamu again because you just lack the bodies and maybe they're trying to tank for a better draft pick, except now the team's better and Wemby's evolved into a death star so you continue winning games.

Does any of the above qualify as tanking? IDK. I don't ever think they were intentionally losing games, but certainly they made decisions in the name of development thinking they were in a low-leverage situation that obviously didn't pay off.

[Ignazzz]

I see.
And who exactly or what exactly were they tanking for?

missing piece
Zach

[exstatic]

I see.
And who exactly or what exactly were they tanking for?

Probably Topic, but the fact that they finished strong means there are probably 4-5 players that meet their needs. They also wanted to block Toronto from the bottom 4 to have a decent chance at the pick.

[SouthernFryd]

Exactly.

I don't know what is more frustrating. Watching this crap team play...or listening to the POP huggers tell me how brilliant he is.

[MultiTroll]

Probably Topic, but the fact that they finished strong means there are probably 4-5 players that meet their needs. They also wanted to block Toronto from the bottom 4 to have a decent chance at the pick.
So to you PATFO had the Spurs tanking the 1st 71 games, but then seeing that Topic or 4-5 other Player Xs could be had with a pick beyond say 8th....went ahead and started to try to win thus went 6-4 in the last 10 games?

[KobesAchilles]

Tbh this season was a season of massive ego by Pop. Idk if we started out tanking or not but I knew in the beginning of the year we were fucked. Hell I knew before the year started we were fucked. Pops ego is out of control and he needs to go tbh.

Tl;dr version. Pop thought he could go into the season not knowing how to play Victor or have any plays for him. He thought he could teach Sochan and Branham how to play PG/basketball. He didn’t think he needed any vets. He thought Collins was worth 32 million more based on a tanking team last year. And he thought he could have an entire roster of people who can’t shoot, dribble, pass, or defend. Also he said we are dumb to question his process.

So sniffers are already all in on the tank next year or will delude themselves into thinking we will be good again next year bc Wemby will “improve.” Wemby can’t guard everybody, play PG, SF, and PF at the same time and Pop again will play him 28 minutes a game next year. So he will have an amazing plus minus and the team will lose a shit ton of games

[Mr. Body]

Spurs Organization: We want to figure out what's best for Wembanyama and how he works best going forward. Right now, winning isn't important.

SpursTalk: WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING IDONTUNDERSTANND AWWAAAH WAAAH!!!???

Godamn they're constantly telling you what they're doing.

[MultiTroll]

figure out what's best for Wembanyama and how he works best going forward.
pink yourself phaggot. :lol

[Mr. Body]

pink yourself phaggot. :lol

You're allowed to put me on Ignore. I literally don't give a shit.

[MultiTroll]

You're allowed to put me on Ignore. I literally don't give a shit.
Yous've got a point there.
All opinions were welcome ITT.

Part of some grand organized thought out plan for the Spurs to subject Wemby to this bull shyte. :lmao
That does have comedic value.

[skin27]

Were not tanking this season. Its just we are so bad. It also doesnt help pop limiting victor ubder 30 minutes of play per game

[stnick2261]

I think the goals were changing throughout the season.

1) Try Sochan at PG / Try to win / Player development
2) Fix the lineup and try to win
3) Toronto is tanking? Crap we gotta out tank them to get their pick

But the whole time thinking "no one is worth the #1 pick, so just staying under Toronto is enough"

[Dejounte]

I think the goals were changing throughout the season.

1) Try Sochan at PG / Try to win / Player development
2) Fix the lineup and try to win
3) Toronto is tanking? Crap we gotta out tank them to get their pick

But the whole time thinking "no one is worth the #1 pick, so just staying under Toronto is enough"
This is the right answer tbh

[Mal]

They did not giva a shit about winning. That's not tanking, they did not care about outcome of the games. Pop tested some weird stuff early

[scott]

Spurs Organization: We want to figure out what's best for Wembanyama and how he works best going forward. Right now, winning isn't important.

SpursTalk: WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING IDONTUNDERSTANND AWWAAAH WAAAH!!!???

Godamn they're constantly telling you what they're doing.

Spurs: Actually said the exact opposite of the bolded portion

Sniffers: Make up their own version of what the Spurs said to cope

[TD 21]

Given what Pop said at the start, how they were going to be bad either way and the projected weakness of the top of this draft, I don't see a credible argument for thinking they were doing so.

Two other things indicate otherwise: An (inexplicable) preseason extension for Collins and Pop's continued bizarre praise for Branham (by "catch-all" metrics, one of the worst rotation players in the league).

I'm sure they expected starting a PF at PG and two C's together to be rough offensively, but I don't think they thought it'd be untenable (even though it was obvious).

They clearly thought (hoped?) Collins, Branham, Johnson and Champagnie would shoot the 3 better and along with Sochan take more of a collective "step forward".

They flat out overvalued their talent.

[CorrectCrusader]

There answer is yes and no.

The front office prioritized trying to develop the younger players in different ways vs playing the high IQ savvy veterans with little room for growth (players like Tre or Mamu)
Since all of our young players sans Devin and Victor are fucking trash it led to the spurs sucking dick. So really it just depends on how you view it, the FO clearly prioritized development over winning, but does that make it tanking?

[Ef-man]

There answer is yes and no.

The front office prioritized trying to develop the younger players in different ways vs playing the high IQ savvy veterans with little room for growth (players like Tre or Mamu)
Since all of our young players sans Devin and Victor are fucking trash it led to the spurs sucking dick. So really it just depends on how you view it, the FO clearly prioritized development over winning, but does that make it tanking?

Tre not getting much playing time?

He averaged 5th most mpg (about 28mpg vs Mamu’s 9mpg).

Also Tre led team with over 400 assists per game so he had plenty of growth time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/SA/san-antonio-spurs/stats/regular/?sortcol=mpg&sortdir=descending&table=TeamStatsTableNba-PlayerStats-Scoring

[CorrectCrusader]

Tre not getting much playing time?

He averaged 5th most mpg (about 28mpg vs Mamu’s 9mpg).

Also Tre led team with over 400 assists per game so he had plenty of growth time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/SA/san-antonio-spurs/stats/regular/?sortcol=mpg&sortdir=descending&table=TeamStatsTableNba-PlayerStats-Scoring

He didn't even start until like the 35th game of the season.

[Atl Spur]

Does it really matter? When you’ve won 5 chips it’s championship or bust; we weren’t winning any championship this year so being in the lottery only helps our path to success. That poodle trade was genius no matter when it conveys.

[tbdog]

Spurs under achieved. The 17 game slide near the start of the season, during the experimental parts of the season, made us look worse. Winning 30% of those games is an extra 5 wins. Playing Graham more, and your looking at a high 20 win team.

[venitian navigator]

I think the goals were changing throughout the season.

1) Try Sochan at PG / Try to win / Player development
2) Fix the lineup and try to win
3) Toronto is tanking? Crap we gotta out tank them to get their pick

But the whole time thinking "no one is worth the #1 pick, so just staying under Toronto is enough"

agree

[eric365]

It was a soft tanking

They made sure there was always something to limit the number of win (no PG especially, « injury » time restriction etc)

But once on the court they tried to win the games

[pad300]

Sniffers: It was CIA Pop playing the long game, his visionary uber skills getting us another lotto pick.
Sochan at point guard was pure Pop genius.

Realists: Sure Sniffers, whatever. We very realistically win 35 games this year with a competent lineup and strategy.

So why win 5 of the last 10 games? Going from potential #2 seed and probably #3 seed to now probably #5 seed?

*to be sure, last nights comeback win vs the Nuggets was a thing of beauty, good for the spirit. Including the foundation of the future Wemby.
But lets talk about the entire body of the season and the last 10 games.

I think it was a tank. It better be a tank; if not, we've got huge issues on the bench and in the FO... I mean, if they weren't trying for another high lottery pick, why was there no attempt to improve the roster after picking up a foundational superstar (Wemby)? Why were there so many crazy lineups this season? Remember that Point Sochan became Point Branham, and Tre didn't become the starter until Branham got hurt...

With respect to the last 10 games thing, look at what happened last year (when I think we all agree that we were tanking ). The team was content to get into the bottom 4 slots... the Spurs had a surge at the end of the season, winning 3 of 5, even though we were competing with the rockets for 2nd/3ed in the draft order. But the Rockets won 4 or their last 5, so the teams ended up tied (for a tie breaker that, IIRC, we ended up losing (ie in the 3ed spot for the lottery - which then jumped to 1st overall. Thank you Gods of Basketball...)). The current surge wouldn't have affected a top 4 lottery slot, except that we won, unexpectedly, against Denver. I'm guessing they didn't think the team would pull that off; and now, Wemby is sitting out Fan Appreciation night against Detroit...

As for why,

...
“This draft is terrible, why would we be tanking?” Because this year, with Wemby in his rookie season, we can effectively tank our way into the top 5 lottery spots (provided Pop is willing to be enough of a goofball with the lineups and the defence...). Next year, with Wemby acclimated to the league, we won’t be able to get into the top 10 lottery spots (unless Wemby gets hurt)...

[KobesAchilles]

It was a soft tanking

They made sure there was always something to limit the number of win (no PG especially, « injury » time restriction etc)

But once on the court they tried to win the games
wtf was soft about losing 17 straight games?

[Atl Spur]

wtf was soft about losing 17 straight games?

The end justifies the mean; don’t care how we reached the desired result as long as we made it! We should at least have 1 top 10 pick = success for this season. Trust me, the rest of the league would love to have our problems!!

[jjspur]

Was this year a tank ? Of course it was. The spurs won a few games early, then someone said hey we're aren't getting a decent draft pick if we continue this, especially in this draft so they started experimenting their way to a 17 game losing streak and hopefully a better draft pick. You don't do that if you're trying to win - are you listening Popovitch.

Injuries (some real and some not) and overall lack of top talent led to more losing so once they reached the point of no return, they actually went with some better lineups and won a few games here and there. The trade deadline came and went with no real changes (other than McNuggets) and you could see the team be more competitive, actually beating some decent teams.

You could say the team was more interested in development, but how much did the players actually develop ? Branham sometimes looks like he took a step backwards, Wesley isn't that much better than last year and Sissokko developed in Austin. The rest of our backups (like Champ, Mamu and Trey) developed because of more playing time due to the starters injuries - not because the coaching decisions. Luckily some of these guys came through. I think they always had that talent, they just needed an opportunity to show it.

Now that this season is over, we know that Wemby is all that and a bag of chips, Vassell and Keldon are their usual selves- good but not great, Mamu, Champ, and Trey are players that have a future as good backups/part time starters . The rest of the team needs to be reevaluated so that the team doesn't make the same moves that resulted in this 20 + win season. We just need a bit more talent, emphasis on talent not developing talent, and we could be on our way to real contention next year.

[Ef-man]

He didn't even start until like the 35th game of the season.

So goalpost change is from Tre not playing much to Tre did not start until like 35th game of season.

Heck of a strategy to develop young players: front office intentionally gave Tre 5th most player minute average and not not starting him ala Ginobili.

Though I agree that Mamu did get screwed by Pops.

[Knoxxx]

So to you PATFO had the Spurs tanking the 1st 71 games, but then seeing that Topic or 4-5 other Player Xs could be had with a pick beyond say 8th....went ahead and started to try to win thus went 6-4 in the last 10 games?

Sounds fairly far fetched when you reframe it that way.

[NASpurs]

The end justifies the mean; don’t care how we reached the desired result as long as we made it! We should at least have 1 top 10 pick = success for this season. Trust me, the rest of the league would love to have our problems!!

You're so fucking retarded :lol Stop posting. Celebrating for having a top ten pick in a weak draft and saying that was the plan all along. Jesus Christ :lol

[NASpurs]

It's obvious they were trying to figure out various things:

1) Figure out Wemby
2) Figure out the lineups
3) Figure out what kind of players they have and how Wemby plays with them
4) Development
5) Experiment

Whether or not that equated to wins isn't the point. It was more of a evaluation year. To say they were tanking is pretty stupid honestly. It was a "whatever happens happens" kind of year.

[CorrectCrusader]

So goalpost change is from Tre not playing much to Tre did not start until like 35th game of season.

Heck of a strategy to develop young players: front office intentionally gave Tre 5th most player minute average and not not starting him ala Ginobili.

Though I agree that Mamu did get screwed by Pops.

Considering he was the only fucking PG on the roster not named Devonte Graham yes.

[eric365]

wtf was soft about losing 17 straight games?

It was not only the spurs soft tanking but also wemby was not that good at that time
Wemby was promising and fun to watch. But the truth was he was hurting the team with the low efficiency and turnover during the 17 games.

But who care of these 17 games if it helped wemby getting better?

[skin27]

It was not only the spurs soft tanking but also wemby was not that good at that time
Wemby was promising and fun to watch. But the truth was he was hurting the team with the low efficiency and turnover during the 17 games.

But who care of these 17 games if it helped wemby getting better?

This. And also pop restricting wemby's minutes. Hopefully next season wemby learns how to reduce turnovers.

[Atl Spur]

You're so fucking retarded :lol Stop posting. Celebrating for having a top ten pick in a weak draft and saying that was the plan all along. Jesus Christ :lol

Way to much anger.. bro you do realize there’s not requirement to agree:) lol We can have different beliefs without you having a period! Clown ass dude

[Atl Spur]

It's obvious they were trying to figure out various things:

1) Figure out Wemby
2) Figure out the lineups
3) Figure out what kind of players they have and how Wemby plays with them
4) Development
5) Experiment

Whether or not that equated to wins isn't the point. It was more of a evaluation year. To say they were tanking is pretty stupid honestly. It was a "whatever happens happens" kind of year.

Captain Obvious reporting for duty…..go paint yo face!

[NASpurs]

Way to much anger.. bro you do realize there’s not requirement to agree:) lol We can have different beliefs without you having a period! Clown ass dude

Except your shitty opinions are always wrong fag boy

[NASpurs]

Captain Obvious reporting for duty…..go paint yo face!

:lol so they weren't tanking then dumb fuck

[MultiTroll]

Sounds fairly far fetched when you reframe it that way.
Did i misrep his post? :lol
Here's a side by side of the two:


Probably Topic, but the fact that they finished strong means there are probably 4-5 players that meet their needs. They also wanted to block Toronto from the bottom 4 to have a decent chance at the pick.


So to you PATFO had the Spurs tanking the 1st 71 games, but then seeing that Topic or 4-5 other Player Xs could be had with a pick beyond say 8th....went ahead and started to try to win thus went 6-4 in the last 10 games?

[couchman]

When you go into a season to “see what we have” you’re clearly not making winning the top priority.
I don’t think we were actively tanking either. We were much more concerned with other things than winning or tanking: Such as seeing what position Wemby should be in and whether Sochan is a PG and how much guys like Vassel and Keldon had developed.
Playing two guys out of position absolutely cratered the start of the season and perhaps stunted the development of some guys but it helped show Wemby we’ll try things his way before making corrections. Playing a deep rotation despite having questionable talent was also about seeing what we have instead of focusing on wins. Wembys minutes restrictions were also not about winning now. I also think we weren’t actively tanking. The Spurs are ok dropping a few slots in a shitty draft if that helps Wemby”learn to win” and other goals that are more focused on developing the current roster.

[TekXX]

Let's just choose to believe this team was hard tanking because i'd hate to believe that the Spurs FO would aim for a pathetic 30 wins and the #10 pick or something stupid like that.

[szkorhetz]

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.5b0848733e96cea6d8eac73f0098b66b?rik=YuBajugl43S wPw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.uloc.de%2fscreenshots%2fc%2fc abf16_02_burns_grampa_basketball.jpg&ehk=F0AuRGhPRnblKV3lNFSFucjEBWeDDNSy7FhNtSNP%2fr8% 3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
Brett Brown (L) listening to Pop having an epiphany that perhaps the Sochan pg is not working.
Best take. :lol

[Atl Spur]

Except your shitty opinions are always wrong fag boy

Are they? Cool:) Now what?

[timtonymanu]

The end justifies the mean; don’t care how we reached the desired result as long as we made it! We should at least have 1 top 10 pick = success for this season. Trust me, the rest of the league would love to have our problems!!

Lol Atl smoking crack like usual

[Atl Spur]

Lol Atl smoking crack like usual

True story…..:) a pretty profound take as usual!

[spursgu]

They wanted to win games but saw the writing on the wall when the roster was not good enough or needed more development. I do think this team needs veterans like people have said. It's funny how the trolls downstairs hate on Vic, they are desperate to find reasons to hate him. This will be his league soon.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Don’t think this is a very difficult question - no, they were not tanking, but they were also not prioritising winning games above all else, thus the crazy experiments. Most of them failed and they found themselves in a losing position record-wise but they never tanked in the sense of losing games on purpose.

The important thing from this season is the knowledge they have acquired - what’s Wemby’s best position, what team construction fits him the best, how they can improve. If they’ve got some answers then it’s been a useful season and who cares if they won 20 or 35 games.

[The Truth #6]

So they tried to tank at the end when they sat Jeremy, Devin, and Keldon. But hilarious that they ended up on their best streak of the season. Could be a fluke. I'm leaning towards low bbiq being a problem.

[Extra Stout]

Maybe most of the team just sucks, but by the end of the year Wemby had developed to the point where he could overcome that. Also, maybe the young guys the team is trying to develop suck so bad that the journeymen who played in their stead at the end are simply better.

[Extra Stout]

I mean, it was obvious all year that Devonte’ Graham was a better option at point guard than Jeremy freakin’ Sochan or Malaki Branham. But you know what you have in Graham; he already has developed into all he is ever going to be. They wanted to see what they had in those other guys. Hopefully now they know — Sochan has no business as a playmaker, and Branham doesn’t belong in the league.

Wesley so does not belong in the league that he couldn’t get much playing time even under a paradigm of trying to develop young players.

Playing those guys is not the same thing as tanking. It’s bleak that they took three swings in the 2022 draft and got at best one role player, but it’s not tanking.

[JPB]

When you go into a season to “see what we have” you’re clearly not making winning the top priority.


I suppose you do in a way when Pop said in media day that 'this year the emphasis will be put on winning cos winning is good for improvement and confidence. They didn't win more with wemby in. That they reconsider this during the season if possible but more out necessity than will. The plan wasn't to tqnk. They tried to win all year long but just realized they overrestimated the rosters and themselves the best example being Sochan at the point. They really thought that could work

[Texas_Ranger]

Last year was a bigger tank job... Even tho I expected at least 5-10 more wins this year, its not really a big deal, as the roster just sucks. Most of these players need to go asap, while we also need to bring another star player in. Good luck to the FO this offseason.

[Extra Stout]

The other thing that was not tanking, but rather was just sucking, is that Vassell, who on this talent-depleted roster was the second-best player, never seemed to develop much chemistry with Wemby. Sochan didn’t either. And that’s two of the three guys that comprise what passes for the current “core” around Wemby, the other being Tre Jones, who in another life would be just another journeyman.

All this means PATFO misappraised their talent level and misjudged their roster construction, but that’s not tanking.

But, if they’d gotten those things right, what difference would it have made. The Spurs would have gone what, 30-52?

The main thing that feels bleak to me is that recent past performance might portend future results. That would mean PATFO continues to fail at non-obvious draft picks, otherwise sits on their hands, and never builds a decent team around Wemby.

[JPB]

Sorry but Graham is a chucker with no defense trying to play hero ball evrytime he can. He'll never be anything than a 3rd stringer/spot up shooter in the NBA. You guys gotta stop overreacting over a couple decent games from bench guys.. It's always the guys who don't play who should play over the ones who do... Graham almost cost 2 games with ill advsed hero shots these last couple weeks. And his game winner (where he was cherry picking on an important defense play) changes nothing to that.

[Extra Stout]

Sorry but Graham is a chucker with no defense trying to play hero ball evrytime he can. He'll never be anything than a 3rd stringer/spot up shooter in the NBA. You guys gotta stop overreacting over a couple decent games from bench guys.. It's always the guys who don't play who should play over the ones who do... Graham almost cost 2 games with ill advsed hero shots these last couple weeks. And his game winner (where he was cherry picking on an important defense play) changes nothing to that.
Both things can be true. Graham can be a chucker who plays little defense, and yet still be a better playmaker than Jeremy Sochan and a much better player overall than Malaki Branham. And yet it makes more sense to play those guys, see what they can do, and hope they find a spark, because Graham will never become more than he already is, while there was at least a sliver of hope those other guys might.

[rascal]

Yes they tried to tank but Wemby made it hard to tank down the end of the season.

Hard to tank against other tanking teams with Wemby playing and other teams took the Spurs lightly down the stretch and the spurs came away with a couple of close wins against playoff teams.

Spurs were even surprised at some of the wins.

[John B]

They were tanking, both to get the player that they want (possibly Topic), and block TOR from getting higher pick and possibly getting a 2nd lottery pick, but keeping Wemby a chance to ROTY and possibly DPOY, on top of slowly getting Wemby accustomed to playing NBA without risking injury, continue the development of young players with real NBA games.

The end justifies the means, however you want to put it.

[NASpurs]

They were tanking, both to get the player that they want (possibly Topic), and block TOR from getting higher pick and possibly getting a 2nd lottery pick, but keeping Wemby a chance to ROTY and possibly DPOY, on top of slowly getting Wemby accustomed to playing NBA without risking injury, continue the development of young players with real NBA games.

The end justifies the means, however you want to put it.

:lol imagine tanking for Topic

It's ok to say they weren't tanking. We know how you worship at the altar of PATFO.

[Knoxxx]

Did i misrep his post? :lol
Here's a side by side of the two:

The bottom line was whether we won 22 or 42, the FO knew we were not winning anything and the play in was unlikely and not even productive. So it was a measured tank in that regard, more of a realistic approach and expectations.

When you get to the end, it becomes clear where you will land and what that means for draft picks. So overall I’m not really taking a side or agreeing that the takes were entirely on point. The FO knew we were way off from a contender and that development was the main goal. The late season reps were huge for the next tier players and gave a better information for constructing next season’s roster.

I think it’s safe to say the team overachieved at the end, but the FO knew that any slippage in the draft pick was irrelevant at that stage.

I don’t ever believe the team steps onto tthe court trying to throw a game, that is done primarily through holding out/shutting down players.

I don’t think the Sochan experiment was an intentional approach to tank the season. From a W-L perspective it was of course a diaster. But, Sochan did gain confidence with his ball handling and pushing the ball up the court. I know his BBIQ, play making are universally panned, but the notion that it destroyed his confidence seems far fetched. While the jury may be out on his career prospects, I think he’s a resilient and likable kid and we gained the knowledge that him being the primary play maker is tom foolery.

On the Mamu v Sochan discussion, Jeremy is the much better athlete so what you want to hope for is Mamu (age 24) BBIQ rubbing off on the much younger Sochan. Also, I don’t see Mamu playing the type of elite defense on the other team’s top scoring guards or playmakers that Sochan has shown he can do.