Lebron James a Spur for the vet minimum with a Bronny draft pick

[MultiTroll]

Do you want Lebron with Wemby for a year, maybe two....maybe even 3?

[cd98]

Lebron isn't leaving LA. Do we want LBJ around him telling him that he should leave to Miami to team up with other stars after he signs his second contract?

[MultiTroll]

Lebron isn't leaving LA. Do we want LBJ around him telling him that he should leave to Miami to team up with other stars after he signs his second contract?
English please.

[MultiTroll]

8-8 poll as Lebron turns in another excellent performance vs Denver in Game 5.

[scott]

Bron ain't coming here. Draft Bronny with the Lakers own SRP and force them to cough up a far out FRP swap for him :lol

[tbdog]

Imagine the other fan forums have a similar thread right now.

I think Lebrons list would be small, and even smaller for vet minimum. For teams that could offer him big short term contracts that's on the list, Spurs would be one of those teams.

[couchman]

Bronny would be worth a high 2nd rounder imo, even if his daddy doesn’t join him.
The kid has talent that wasn’t showcased at USC.
I’m not saying he’ll pan out, most 2nd rounders don’t, but there are some athletic traits and a work ethic that could hit.

[Pauleta14]

I'd hate to have to support Lebron tbh

But he'd never be able to padd his stats the way he does in LA nor would he get as mch help to keep building his Goat storytelling

Like most top players, he loves to praise Pop but would NEVER EVER play for him because he'd limit his stats

[John B]

Not helping LeBron with ring count and and his GOAT story

[LeBowen]

I'd rather watch another season of full on tanking than have that pretentious bitch in Spurs uniform. Disgusting to even think about it.
And he's not that good anymore.
Actually, I have to give him props, he mastered the art of stat-padding.
Somehow still puts up numbers identical to his prime, but is like 20% of the player. Absolutely nowhere to be seen when it matters the most. On either end of the floor.

[MultiTroll]

I'd rather watch another season of full on tanking than have that pretentious bitch in Spurs uniform. Disgusting to even think about it.
And he's not that good anymore.
Actually, I have to give him props, he mastered the art of stat-padding.
Somehow still puts up numbers identical to his prime, but is like 20% of the player. Absolutely nowhere to be seen when it matters the most. On either end of the floor.
Which one of the current Spurs outside of Wemby is better then Lebron?

[MultiTroll]

Bronny would be worth a high 2nd rounder imo, even if his daddy doesn’t join him.
The kid has talent that wasn’t showcased at USC.
I’m not saying he’ll pan out, most 2nd rounders don’t, but there are some athletic traits and a work ethic that could hit.
Considering the Spurs 2nd round picks since Ginobili, why not?

He's only 19 1/2 as we speak.

I like the idea.

[LeBowen]

Which one of the current Spurs outside of Wemby is better then Lebron?

Spurs without Wemby are the worst team in the league, not hard to be better than our scrubs.

As for everything else, some things are more important than winning at all costs. I wouldn't have taken even prime Lebron, because I'm a fan of the Spurs, not individual players.
And every team Lebron plays for instantly becomes less important than himself. Insufferable.
That egomaniac would just take away from Spurs' and Wemby's success.

[Joseph Kony]

In a vacuum i wouldnt mind, the problem is the circus he brings with him and at this stage of his career it aint worth it imho

[Tyronn Lue]

If Lebron wanted to go to a small market team, he'd return to Cleveland to retire.

[manufan10]

1785325093410738562

[montgod]

If Lebron wanted to go to a small market team, he'd return to Cleveland to retire.

I could absolutely see this happening especially if the Cavs re-sign Mitchell. Only other teams would be ones where he felt he could win now, has another star on the roster, and make a difference like GS.

[Pauleta14]

1785325093410738562


That's not what Wendy said...

He just objected to stupid scenarios Jay Will was subnitting,like signing for the min etc reminding them that Lebron is meant to get paid 50M next season and wants to buy a franchise = won't forfait 50M like that.

He said that the only way Lebron opts out is if he gets at least 2 years 100M

Zero news

Edit ; around 7'


https://youtu.be/wj57b2HOkTA?si=ei14Q-UE_cuOUgUh

[KingKev]

1. LBJ is a fucking diva / often mastermind and will never let you know what he is thinking… ultimate poker face.

2. He cares more about money generally yes… till now as he looks defeated yet still in his prime and ready to go out on top.

3. If you think Wemby falling in our hands was a conspiracy consider LBJ is already trying to work his way to dollars, legacy and whatever else suits him and some organization may bend over backwards for it. Unlikely us.

[lefty]

He is going to NY :lol

[LeBowen]

He is going to NY :lol

Thibs would drop him out of the rotation for lack of defensive effort.

[MultiTroll]

For you racists and ones who had their girlfriends stolen by Lebron, how in the hell was coming back to Cleveland and getting them a legit Championship selfish?

Then you bitch because he left again after Kywie bailed and the team had a 2023 Spurs type roster.

You wanted him to stay and serve his white master / owner?

[JPB]

Lebron will never play for the minimum. And it's not even about the money, he's already a billionaire. It's about image, rank and prestige.

He"s royalty, and kings don't play for the minimum.

[SpurSpike]

He will opt out but not to go to another team, he'll opt out to sign a bigger 3 year deal with the Lakers.

[scott]

LeBron should spend next season doing 10-day deals for all the teams he hasn't played for yet. Add yet another record to his resume: first player to play for every team.

[cd98]

Why would LBJ take the vet minimum when he's playing like a top 20 NBA player? I think he would be insulted by someone asking him to take the vet minimum. He's won titles. There is no reason to come here. He's staying in LA where he can work on his career outside of basketball.

[spurraider21]

he's not going to take a paycut, so its not happening

[Limguogolo]

Not need for Victor to mentor some random 45 old vet.

[MultiTroll]

Not need for Victor to mentor some random 45 old vet.
Pop is 90, not 45.

[MultiTroll]

Why would LBJ take the vet minimum when he's playing like a top 20 NBA player?
He himself floated the idea.
That was before Bronny had his heart issue.

Lebron was real big on being a son/father combo on the same team.

[Barfunk]

Would definitely take him, but never fear people who despise Lebron, he will never come here.

[poopbox]

If you could sign lebron you do it no brainer. It would be arguably the smartest and best basketball player ever teaching our franchise player.

And the absolute best part about signing lebron is that you know he would get collins, sochan, branhim, and wessley up out of here. First thing he does when he goes to a team is get rid of the bums. Shit I would want him signed for that alone.

[Ignazzz]

LeBron should spend next season doing 10-day deals for all the teams he hasn't played for yet. Add yet another record to his resume: first player to play for every team.

for all teams. 30. Ring is sure thing as member of the winning crew.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

If you could sign lebron you do it no brainer. It would be arguably the smartest and best basketball player ever teaching our franchise player.

And the absolute best part about signing lebron is that you know he would get collins, sochan, branhim, and wessley up out of here. First thing he does when he goes to a team is get rid of the bums. Shit I would want him signed for that alone.

https://pictures.abebooks.com/inventory/md/md31655803419.jpg

[Chomag]

Don't need a drama queen right now, and Bronny is only a high draft pick because of name only and not worth it.

[Pauleta14]

If you could sign lebron you do it no brainer. It would be arguably the smartest and best basketball player ever teaching our franchise player.

And the absolute best part about signing lebron is that you know he would get collins, sochan, branhim, and wessley up out of here. First thing he does when he goes to a team is get rid of the bums. Shit I would want him signed for that alone.

:lol

Storytelling DO work on people... :lol

[Tyronn Lue]

1. LBJ is a fucking diva / often mastermind and will never let you know what he is thinking… ultimate poker face.

2. He cares more about money generally yes… till now as he looks defeated yet still in his prime and ready to go out on top.

3. If you think Wemby falling in our hands was a conspiracy consider LBJ is already trying to work his way to dollars, legacy and whatever else suits him and some organization may bend over backwards for it. Unlikely us.
This is called capitalism. He should get every single penny he can get from the billionaires that have made several fortunes from his presence over the past 21 years.

[Tyronn Lue]

:lol

Storytelling DO work on people... :lol
He's top 2 for sure. He was the best player for LA in that series even though AD had some stretches. For a guy people say is about to retire, he looks top 10 in the league.


Don't need a drama queen right now, and Bronny is only a high draft pick because of name only and not worth it.

Any pick at that level is seriously hit or miss. If you get Lebron with it you cannot lose.

[Pauleta14]

He's top 2 for sure. He was the best player for LA in that series even though AD had some stretches. For a guy people say is about to retire, he looks top 10 in the league.



For sure?? What are your criterias?

He's very smart in a cynical way and storytelling driven.

He knows when and how to score to secure his stats and rarely appears when it really matters. The whole team would have to be centered around him bc he can't play with a PG anyway.

I'm not a hater but as usual it's all about the balance between the positive and the negative. The latter wins by a large margin to me.

You could also make a strong case as him being one of the worst leader of all time (among the greats), refusing any accountability and historically putting all the blame on his teamates.

Why would anyone want him?

[itzsoweezee]

The only possible benefit of Lebron coming to San Antonio is that Pop would finally be forced to retire after the spurs fail to do anything meaningful. That is the Lebron MO — trade assets to get his guys, then skip town or fire the coach when the team fails.

[MultiTroll]

He knows when and how to score to secure his stats and rarely appears when it really matters.

You could also make a strong case as him being one of the worst leader of all time (among the greats), refusing any accountability and historically putting all the blame on his teamates.

Why would anyone want him?
Too many instances of showing up when it matters to mention.

He's a better pg then 90% of the pg's he's played with. Yes, he is a better pg then Tre Jones.

"refusing any accountability and historically putting all the blame on his teamates."
Give several examples please.
Since there must be soo many.

[MultiTroll]

The only possible benefit of Lebron coming to San Antonio is that Pop would finally be forced to retire after the spurs fail to do anything meaningful. That is the Lebron MO — trade assets to get his guys, then skip town or fire the coach when the team fails.
:cry Poor Cleveland. All he did is bring that shithole a Championship and increase the teams and towns revenue but at least a billion. :cry
:cry Poor Miami only 4 straight Finals with 2 wins, albeit one a gift :cry

So if some one on ST has a skill, lets say computers. They work at Google but get a better off from Samsungs new Texas digs. You're saying they are a traitor and bandwaggoner for moving freely in the capitalistic system we live under?

[itzsoweezee]

:cry Poor Cleveland. All he did is bring that shithole a Championship and increase the teams and towns revenue but at least a billion. :cry
:cry Poor Miami only 4 straight Finals with 2 wins, albeit one a gift :cry

So if some one on ST has a skill, lets say computers. They work at Google but get a better off from Samsungs new Texas digs. You're saying they are a traitor and bandwaggoner for moving freely in the capitalistic system we live under?

His MO has not changed, the results have. The baggage is clearly not worth it in 2024. This is wemby’s team now. Any move that suggests otherwise is beyond stupid

[Guru of Nothing]

Sure, maybe he can teach Champaignie how to dunk.

[Extra Stout]

No to LeBron. Players on other teams all suck unless they are 25-year-old superstars in their primes, and the players already on the Spurs are all diamonds in the rough who just need more time to develop.

[Spurminator]

This is called capitalism. He should get every single penny he can get from the billionaires that have made several fortunes from his presence over the past 21 years.

It never ceases to amaze me how blue collar fans will always take the side of billionaire owners who get taxpayer funding for their arenas and stadiums, but expect players to take less than their value out of some moral obligation.

[scott]

It never ceases to amaze me how blue collar fans will always take the side of billionaire owners who get taxpayer funding for their arenas and stadiums, but expect players to take less than their value out of some moral obligation.

100%.

It's like these fans are hoping Holt or Jerry Jones is going to cut them a check for saving a little bit on payroll, instead of raising the price of hotdogs by another dollar.

[spurraider21]

It never ceases to amaze me how blue collar fans will always take the side of billionaire owners who get taxpayer funding for their arenas and stadiums, but expect players to take less than their value out of some moral obligation.
because its not a zero sum game between whether lebron takes more money or [hypothetical owner] keeps money. its about the cap flexibility to build a better team.

i didnt love it when duncan took team friendly deals because it lined holt's pockets, i loved it because it allowed us to build great teams, eventually sign aldridge, etc

[Spurminator]

because its not a zero sum game between whether lebron takes more money or [hypothetical owner] keeps money. its about the cap flexibility to build a better team.

i didnt love it when duncan took team friendly deals because it lined holt's pockets, i loved it because it allowed us to build great teams, eventually sign aldridge, etc

It's the responsibility of the owner and GM to build a competitive team. I have no problem celebrating players who take pay cuts, but that's different than calling them greedy if they don't.

The owners could always renegotiate the CBA and get rid of the salary cap.

[KobesAchilles]

Maybe Lebron can get Pop fired for us. Seems to be a trend for him

[MultiTroll]

Maybe Lebron can get Pop fired for us. Seems to be a trend for him
Removing the biggest obstacle for #6.
Lebron would definitely add to his legacy.

FWIW i think Anthony Davis was the diva who got Ham run, not Lebron.
Altho Lebron may have been fully on board.
You've got to keep a pulse on hair bun DLo. When he's hot, great, ride it. When he's bricking and playing D like Barbie you've got to act. Ham didn't.

[Tyronn Lue]

For sure?? What are your criterias?

Criteria would be someone who has been at the top of the game for 20 years, won the rings and taken multiple teams to championships while remaining healthy and not having to change his game to compensate for his age OR someone who dominated for a shorter period like Michael did. He came into the league 21 years ago and he's still one of the best players in the game. He's missed the playoffs only 4 times in his career.


He's very smart in a cynical way and storytelling driven.

I don't see that with him. He's self assured, but he's nowhere near the cockiness of Kobe or Mike or some others, many who couldn't carry his jock.


He knows when and how to score to secure his stats and rarely appears when it really matters. The whole team would have to be centered around him bc he can't play with a PG anyway.

Are we talking about the same guy? Lebron James is 965-527 in his career. What team did he ever play on where he wasn't the best player on the team?


I'm not a hater but as usual it's all about the balance between the positive and the negative. The latter wins by a large margin to me.

I hope Victor gets anywhere within artillery range of that level, I'll live with the hubris if it develops.


You could also make a strong case as him being one of the worst leader of all time (among the greats), refusing any accountability and historically putting all the blame on his teamates.

Why would anyone want him?
Nothing you said makes any sense. Do you think Michael or Kobe were great leaders? Do they need to be in order to be consider GOAT?

[scott]

I can see the argument for MJ over Bron, but someone is trying to say Bron isn't Top 2? :lol

[Pauleta14]

Criteria would be someone who has been at the top of the game for 20 years, won the rings and taken multiple teams to championships while remaining healthy and not having to change his game to compensate for his age OR someone who dominated for a shorter period like Michael did. He came into the league 21 years ago and he's still one of the best players in the game. He's missed the playoffs only 4 times in his career.

I don't see that with him. He's self assured, but he's nowhere near the cockiness of Kobe or Mike or some others, many who couldn't carry his jock.

Are we talking about the same guy? Lebron James is 965-527 in his career. What team did he ever play on where he wasn't the best player on the team?

I hope Victor gets anywhere within artillery range of that level, I'll live with the hubris if it develops.

Nothing you said makes any sense. Do you think Michael or Kobe were great leaders? Do they need to be in order to be consider GOAT?


(sorry no idea how to answer seperate quotes...^^)

Raw stats don't tell the whole picture.
Missed PO only 4 times? so? + a decade in the weakest conference of all time then recruituing players from this same conf to weaken his only threats.
+20 years stats only means you lasted longer, as Pop said when he beat some records. Lebron's longevity is diff topic

I'm not saying his BBIQ isn't high, just that it is very overrated and a lot players/veterans are at the same level (again the impact of daily storytelling...). Have you watched his podcast with JJ Reddick? The dude sounds like he invented fire :lol

His lack of humility in general and his obsession still at his age about storytelling and how ppl perceive him aren't signs of high IQ (the regular one ^^) or Spurs material ("get over oneself")

MJ or Kobe (2nd/end of hs career, not 1st part obviously) weren't like that. Actually I can't find one great who was, maybe Shaq but with a lot of self deprecation.

If you look at his resume in detail, he had insanely embarrasing moments (finals vs Dallas was shameful is so many aspects), or bailouts (Ray Allen 13', Dray suspended + Kyrie dagger) and a bubble title...

His only "legit" win was vs young inexperienced Okc who beat the Spurs with a lot of help from the refs to avoid the mighty Spurs against him again.

Just imagine if he played in the West and had to build his team the regular way...

When I say he's cynical, I mean that if winning (more than his stats) was the most important to him, he'd save his energy and shots from the 1QT and keep them for the 4QT when they're needed and as the leader he's supposed to be help his teammates be involved. But he knows ppl forget what happened during the game with time and you can make stats say anything)

As for the terrible leader he is, not sure what you want me to say, have you missed him putting his teammaes again and again under the bus??? He even suggested this season that his son was better than them! :lol

I mean between the whinning, the theatrical antics on the floor, sulking alone at the end of the bench etc his whole career has been a cringe compilation.

In a few decades, Lebron will be remembered for his durability, longevity, versatility and how savvy he (and his camp) was in terms of PR. But he won't leave a trace on the game for his plays or moves. You never see a kid or present player say he learned this move watching Lebron.
Paul George for ex is a better reference and model than him in the young coming generation like Kobe and KD was for the previouses.

PG13 or KD would be amazing mentors for Wemby. Not Lebron

[Pauleta14]

I can see the argument for MJ over Bron, but someone is trying to say Bron isn't Top 2? :lol

Yes

A LOT MORE than you seem to realise :lol

I think time will do its works

[Tyronn Lue]

(sorry no idea how to answer seperate quotes...^^)

Raw stats don't tell the whole picture.
Missed PO only 4 times? so? + a decade in the weakest conference of all time then recruituing players from this same conf to weaken his only threats.
+20 years stats only means you lasted longer, as Pop said when he beat some records. Lebron's longevity is diff topic

I'm not saying his BBIQ isn't high, just that it is very overrated and a lot players/veterans are at the same level (again the impact of daily storytelling...). Have you watched his podcast with JJ Reddick? The dude sounds like he invented fire :lol

His lack of humility in general and his obsession still at his age about storytelling and how ppl perceive him aren't signs of high IQ (the regular one ^^) or Spurs material ("get over oneself")

MJ or Kobe (2nd/end of hs career, not 1st part obviously) weren't like that. Actually I can't find one great who was, maybe Shaq but with a lot of self deprecation.

If you look at his resume in detail, he had insanely embarrasing moments (finals vs Dallas was shameful is so many aspects), or bailouts (Ray Allen 13', Dray suspended + Kyrie dagger) and a bubble title...

His only "legit" win was vs young inexperienced Okc who beat the Spurs with a lot of help from the refs to avoid the mighty Spurs against him again.

Just imagine if he played in the West and had to build his team the regular way...

When I say he's cynical, I mean that if winning (more than his stats) was the most important to him, he'd save his energy and shots from the 1QT and keep them for the 4QT when they're needed and as the leader he's supposed to be help his teammates be involved. But he knows ppl forget what happened during the game with time and you can make stats say anything)

As for the terrible leader he is, not sure what you want me to say, have you missed him putting his teammaes again and again under the bus??? He even suggested this season that his son was better than them! :lol

I mean between the whinning, the theatrical antics on the floor, sulking alone at the end of the bench etc his whole career has been a cringe compilation.

In a few decades, Lebron will be remembered for his durability, longevity, versatility and how savvy he (and his camp) was in terms of PR. But he won't leave a trace on the game for his plays or moves. You never see a kid or present player say he learned this move watching Lebron.
Paul George for ex is a better reference and model than him in the young coming generation like Kobe and KD was for the previouses.

PG13 or KD would be amazing mentors for Wemby. Not Lebron
If you "go advanced" you can use the quote icon to wrap quote tags around selected text.

You'd need to say who's above him and personal preference based on likeability cannot be debated.

[NickiRasgo]

I feel like he gonna team up with Steph and KD in Golden State. Maybe something like "Last Dance 2". Probably they will get Bronny via draft as an excuse for LeBron to join the Warriors.

[ambchang]

^ did you just try to say Mike and Kobe has humility? Am I reading that right?

[NickiRasgo]

^ I mean LeBron will probably do anything now since he's close to retiring to try to get the 5th. Same how he get his rings. lol So yeah, it's not like I won't be surprised if it happens. Also I thought KD's contract is expiring this offseason so only way is via trade. Maybe they will try PG instead of KD.

[KobesAchilles]

When I think of the word humility, I think of Kobe and MJ :lmao

[Pauleta14]

If you "go advanced" you can use the quote icon to wrap quote tags around selected text.

You'd need to say who's above him and personal preference based on likeability cannot be debated.

Thx

I ended by giving u 2 more suited vets with same type of high IQ and imo a lot more people oriented than Lebron. PG13 my dream choice and KD another (unprobabale) luxury

At the end of the day it's probably a matter of taste so we'll have to agree to disagree but there's one last thing you might agree on is that Lebron's never been in a team where he wasn't the center of everthing. We're on a journey with a 20yo phenom that IS the center alredy.

I can't see Lebron take a back step on or off the floor...

can you?

[Pauleta14]

Ok I got carried away with MJ and Kobe ... :lol

But those 2 are diff animals who lived by the scoring, it wasn't a good comparison to start with

Lebron is supposed to be the super versatile leader, pass oriented blabla

[Tyronn Lue]

Thx

I ended by giving u 2 more suited vets with same type of high IQ and imo a lot more people oriented than Lebron. PG13 my dream choice and KD another (unprobabale) luxury

Paul George is a nice guy but he's nowhere near Lebron's level.
KD stacked with Golden State, because he played 2nd fiddle in OKC when he was the obvious alpha talent. He's since collected checks and done nothing notable. He's not someone you want your star emulating.



At the end of the day it's probably a matter of taste so we'll have to agree to disagree but there's one last thing you might agree on is that Lebron's never been in a team where he wasn't the center of everthing. We're on a journey with a 20yo phenom that IS the center alredy.

I can't see Lebron take a back step on or off the floor...

can you?
He doesn't need take a step back. AD has plenty of touches, he just cannot remain upright long enough to make them matter past the 1st half. If Lebron plays with his boy, he's going to get him involved at the expense of developing any other talent. Teams need to keep that in mind. With that said, outside of the possibility of a massive cap hit, you could do much worse than signing Lebron.

[Pauleta14]

Paul George is a nice guy but he's nowhere near Lebron's level.
KD stacked with Golden State, because he played 2nd fiddle in OKC when he was the obvious alpha talent. He's since collected checks and done nothing notable. He's not someone you want your star emulating.

He doesn't need take a step back. AD has plenty of touches, he just cannot remain upright long enough to make them matter past the 1st half. If Lebron plays with his boy, he's going to get him involved at the expense of developing any other talent. Teams need to keep that in mind. With that said, outside of the possibility of a massive cap hit, you could do much worse than signing Lebron.

I wasn't clear...

Lebron is overall more talented than PG, it's not close but the latter doesn't need the ball in his hands as much and would fit next to a proper PG contrary to Lebron

As for KD, He's a much diff player and man at this stage of his career, doen't need to be the guy and has shown willigness to be a mentor.

I just don't like the fit at all, beyond all the circus that follows LBJ

Anyway, as Wendy reminded some fools Lebron is looking for a massive extention in LA. He's not moving

[Tyronn Lue]

Lebron isn't coming to this team, that's one fact. The other fact is that Lebron coming to this team would be a net positive.

[scott]

Yes

A LOT MORE than you seem to realise :lol

I think time will do its works

There is a word for these people

[MultiTroll]

Lebron Haters sure are being vindicated by this Minnesota - Denver series.

Ya Lebron sucked vs Denver.

[Chomag]

KD would be a much better fit on this team in every way

[RC_Drunkford]

I can see the argument for MJ over Bron, but someone is trying to say Bron isn't Top 2? :lol

to be honest I got Duncan at #2

[LeBowen]

to be honest I got Duncan at #2

I always hated these arbitrary all-time lists.
Even just the numbers don't tell the entire story.

For me it's really simple. Basketball is a team sport, it's all about which team wins.
We all have favorite players, but ultimately people support teams and not just players.
No player ever has done more for a single franchise than Duncan did for the Spurs.

There's Bill Russell, but Celtics would've still been the best team without him. They wouldn't have won as many, but they would've won a lot.
There's MJ. Bulls were garbage before him and went back into irrelevancy as soon as he retired.

Then there's Duncan. Turned Spurs, a subpar franchise into an example for the entire world of sports.
No ego, no selfishness, highest winning percentage ever during a ridiculously long period of time.
People say he had David and the veterans. What exactly did they achive without him?
They say he had Pop. The same Pop who was on the verge of getting fired and who wasn't that good of a coach initially, let's be honest here.
They had he had great teammates. Where else would've Tony succeeded in a league that tried really hard to avoid foreigners, especially undersized ones.
Or Manu? Noone wanted him. 57th pick. How much would he have achieved without Duncan?
Or all those subpar players who looked great in the Spurs uniform only to regress to their actual level when there was no Duncan to have their back.
When he retired, franchise was in perfect position to keep winning. Nephew ruined that, but we all see who was right in that case.
Seven years after his retirement, we get arguably the biggest prospect ever and he's elated that Spurs won the lottery.
He surely wouldn't have been as happy if Celtics won the lottery in '97.
But if Duncan went to the Celtics, we'd be talking about a franchise with ~25 rings and would have constant Timmy vs MJ goat debates.

So yeah, while Lebron, Wilt, Kareem and MJ had higher peeks, if I'm a fan of a small market franchise and I want a player for the next 20 years with all their qualities and flaws, I'm taking Duncan at #1, no questions asked.

[scott]

While they didn't have any titles, the Spurs already had a top-3, if not the #1, all time winning % in NBA history prior to Duncan. I would not say the Spurs were a "subpar franchise" before Duncan's arrival.

I love Timmy as much as the next guy, and have him Top 5, but no - I don't put him above Lebron. Yes, winning matters, but so does individual achievement & accolades when talking about the GOATs (otherwise, Robert Horry and Steve Kerr would be Top 75 players). At the same time, I think notoriety and fame play a big part of it as well. While we love that Timmy was this reluctant superstar who didn't want the spotlight, that has an impact on the all-time rankings, like it or not.

[LeBowen]

Highest winning percentage and zero finals appearances.
One could argue that the Spurs wasted two MVP players with subpar rosters around them.

Peak Lebron was amazing, but his stat-padding and media machinery ever since he joined the Lakers has been ridiculous.
His Eastern conference achievements are a joke, Spurs would've made at least 10 finals in '98-16 East.

[MultiTroll]

Wemby
Siakim
Lebron
Reasonable / good pg be it a trade or the Spurs 1st round pick.
New coach

:lobt2: We're sniffing it as early as next season.

[MultiTroll]

Voting is still basically even.

Lebron attending the game at Cleveland tonight vs Boston.

[exstatic]

Highest winning percentage and zero finals appearances.
One could argue that the Spurs wasted two MVP players with subpar rosters around them.

Peak Lebron was amazing, but his stat-padding and media machinery ever since he joined the Lakers has been ridiculous.
His Eastern conference achievements are a joke, Spurs would've made at least 10 finals in '98-16 East.

No Finals appearances, but 3rd all time win % when he got here is not sub par. Red Auerbach hated the ABA, didn’t want the teams,and predicted that they would flop in the NBA. The first year, 3 of the 4 teams made the playoffs,and the only reason NJ didn’t was that the dickhead Knicks demanded a payment for them to enter the NY media market, and they had to sell Dr. J’s contract to Philly to pay it. The Spurs were playoff fixtures,and made two conference finals before Tim.

THAT’S NOT SUB PAR.

[JPB]

to be honest I got Duncan at #2

Nah, come on. We all love the Big Fundamental but Chamberlain, Russell, Jabbar, Bird, Magic, Lebron... Not saying they're all above #21 (not saying theyre not) but duncan isn't #2.

Every fanbase will sneak his guy I guess but if you ask all around the NBA fanbase, nobody put Tim #2, even the "educated" fans.

[RC_Drunkford]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.

[JPB]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.

For the sake of it, Bill Russel won 11 titles in 13 years of career (Abdul-Jabbar has 6 too). And Ships are not the alpha and omega of GOATness.

[scott]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.

[MultiTroll]

Criteria would be someone who has been at the top of the game for 20 years, won the rings and taken multiple teams to championships while remaining healthy and not having to change his game to compensate for his age OR someone who dominated for a shorter period like Michael did. He came into the league 21 years ago and he's still one of the best players in the game. He's missed the playoffs only 4 times in his career.
The James know how to work the media, also not get worked by the media.... but if we take Bronny at face value:

Bronny James had a great answer on if he wants to play alongside father LeBron James in the NBA (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/bronny-james-had-a-great-answer-on-if-he-wants-to-play-alongside-father-lebron-james-in-the-nba/ar-BB1mrgAp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=2cbc6baccc154fb0827f7c991e4770d5&ei=12)

Too bad. Lebron would shore up 5 glaring weaknesses on the Spurs.

[Tyronn Lue]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.
fact

[Tyronn Lue]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.
You cannot assume 2014 is a given if you change the 2013 outcome.

[Seventyniner]

You cannot assume 2014 is a given if you change the 2013 outcome.

Agreed. Once you change anything in the past, nothing after that is guaranteed at all.

That's why it's perfectly justified to shit on the FO for picking Primo, even though they got Wemby later. There are absolutely worlds where the Spurs pick Sengun there and get Wemby anyway, and many more where they pick Primo and don't get Wemby.

[Barfunk]

Lebron isn't coming to this team, that's one fact. The other fact is that Lebron coming to this team would be a net positive.

Yupp. He's probably on his knees praying the Spurs don't somehow draft Bronny. But if he was smart, and if he wanted to win his 5th and 6th, he should come here and team up with Wemby. I guess it's moot because we'll eventually ring(s) with or without him.

[Obstructed_View]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.
Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.

[Tyronn Lue]

Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.
I wouldn't say zero. You never hear anyone with zero rings being considered GOAT. You need rings to have finals MVPs. You need Finals to have Finals performances. You need post season runs to get to the Finals and to get legendary post season performances. These all factor into the GOAT conversation. Rings are a big factor.

[scott]

Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.

Not for the person I was responding to, apparently.

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn't say zero. You never hear anyone with zero rings being considered GOAT. You need rings to have finals MVPs. You need Finals to have Finals performances. You need post season runs to get to the Finals and to get legendary post season performances. These all factor into the GOAT conversation. Rings are a big factor.
No, you are 100 percent correct. Excellent point. I overstated.

[baseline bum]

There's Bill Russell, but Celtics would've still been the best team without him. They wouldn't have won as many, but they would've won a lot.


There's no way. Russell was the entire reason they could consistently get easy points on the break thanks to his shotblocking, his rebounding, and his outlet passing. Russell was like Victor in that he generated a really high percentage of new possessions out of his shot blocks instead of swatting everything in the stands like say Shaq would do when he got blocks since they looked good on Sportscenter. His timing was so good and his jump so fast he could often block the ball upward so he could get the rebound. If you ever played NBA Live 2000 and remember what shotblocks were like in that game, that's how a lot of Russell's blocked shots were. He was such an insane athlete. Without Russell in the league Chamberlain probably has another ring or two and West has another 4 or 5. Boston probably wouldn't have had any.

[baseline bum]

Nah, come on. We all love the Big Fundamental but Chamberlain, Russell, Jabbar, Bird, Magic, Lebron... Not saying they're all above #21 (not saying theyre not) but duncan isn't #2.

Every fanbase will sneak his guy I guess but if you ask all around the NBA fanbase, nobody put Tim #2, even the "educated" fans.

Abdul-Jabbar doesn't belong in that conversation. Everyone else on that list you know you're winning 50 games or close if he's healthy in his prime and on your roster, but Kareem was the king of underachievement once Oscar retired and before he lucked into having his legacy saved by Magic. And he did not have bad rosters around him, with HOFers like Bob Dandridge, Gail Goodrich, Jamal Wilkes, and Adrian Dantley on these Milwaukee and LA teams he led nowhere. Meanwhile Magic led the Lakers to 62 wins one year and the NBA Finals the next after Kareem retired. Kareem is so overrated and Magic so grossly underrated on these alltime lists.

[MultiTroll]

I know Timmy Dunker was just as impactful on his teams and Finals as Jordan was.
Don't care if others want to put MJ "above" Tim.

Yes Tim was absolutely robbed in 2013.
And yes, we don't know if there would have been a natural letdown and 2014 might not have happened.

[LeBowen]

There's no way. Russell was the entire reason they could consistently get easy points on the break thanks to his shotblocking, his rebounding, and his outlet passing. Russell was like Victor in that he generated a really high percentage of new possessions out of his shot blocks instead of swatting everything in the stands like say Shaq would do when he got blocks since they looked good on Sportscenter. His timing was so good and his jump so fast he could often block the ball upward so he could get the rebound. If you ever played NBA Live 2000 and remember what shotblocks were like in that game, that's how a lot of Russell's blocked shots were. He was such an insane athlete. Without Russell in the league Chamberlain probably has another ring or two and West has another 4 or 5. Boston probably wouldn't have had any.

Wilt Chamberlain Archive is my favorite NBA youtube channel, I've seen plenty of videos.
I'm not downplaying Russell's importance, but those Celtics teams were stacked and would've surely won some rings with a decent center in his place.

[scott]

Russell, and to some extent Wilt, played against accounts and plumbers in a league with 8 teams. He was awesome, but didn't do anything that any other great player would have done in that era. Part of the reason why I don't hold much regard for most of the Celtics championships.

[baseline bum]

Russell, and to some extent Wilt, played against accounts and plumbers in a league with 8 teams. He was awesome, but didn't do anything that any other great player would have done in that era. Part of the reason why I don't hold much regard for most of the Celtics championships.

Let's just take 64-65 as an example as a year in Russell's prime. In that eight team league some of the other centers he's going against are Wilt, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Zelmo Beaty, so half the opposing starting centers he's lining up that year against were Hall of Famers. Obviously there was way less talent then overall, but squeezed into 8 teams balances that out a lot. And he consistently got over on Chamberlain, who is the most athletic player in the history of the league. NBA was crap in the 50s but improved a lot at the tail end and through the early 60s as it started integrating. I think it was probably a better era for the NBA than the early to mid 70s when half the talent was playing in the ABA too.

[scott]

Let's just take 64-65 as an example as a year in Russell's prime. In that eight team league some of the other centers he's going against are Wilt, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Zelmo Beaty, so half the opposing starting centers he's lining up that year against were Hall of Famers. Obviously there was way less talent then overall, but squeezed into 8 teams balances that out a lot. And he consistently got over on Chamberlain, who is the most athletic player in the history of the league. NBA was crap in the 50s but improved a lot at the tail end and through the early 60s as it started integrating. I think it was probably a better era for the NBA than the early to mid 70s when half the talent was playing in the ABA too.

My favorite part of this era is how Russell won 3 MVPs while only making the All-NBA Second Team those years.

[TD 21]

Russell was a rich man's/glorified Ben Wallace. He wasn't anything close to an offensive centerpiece and played on a loaded team in a condensed league that was in its infancy, yet people still pretend he's a top 3 center of all time out of fear as coming off as disrespecting him (as opposed to contextualizing him).

Not only Abdul-Jabbar and Chamberlain, but Duncan, O'Neal, Olajuwon and Jokic minimally should all be considered better, while many others have varying degrees of an argument or would have health permitting (Robinson, Malone, Embiid, P. Gasol, Davis, Ewing, Mourning, Howard, Sabonis and Walton).

[MultiTroll]

What Shams actually said quote:

"It would not surprise me in the coming weeks, if a team does reach out to Rich Paul or anyone else around Bronny James or LeBron James himself, and says, 'Hey if we draft Bronny James, would you come as well LeBron?' And the answer to that is going to be no, as of right now,'" Charania said. "That's not a given, that's not something that's going to be preordained."

â vs how Laker pays the media to spin it. Headline:
LeBron James won't leave Lakers to play with his son, Bronny, per report (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lebron-james-won-t-leave-lakers-to-play-with-his-son-bronny-per-report/ar-BB1mABHt?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=9b24e3e9df134ef8ba3f556af53d5bda&ei=7)

[MultiTroll]

To me it will blow balls if every NBA team avoids drafting Bronny and let's him go to the Lakers.
I know, i know Bronny probably won't even be good enough to play on an NBA roster till the 26-27 season.

I'm saying why not draft him, see if the small % chance Lebron will come over and or / make the Lakers pay to get Bronny to LA in a trade.

[Obstructed_View]

As for the question, I'd rather see Victor suffer a career ending injury and the Spurs move to Seattle before I'd want to see the King and Bronny show in San Antonio. :vomit:

[ChumpDumper]

To me it will blow balls if every NBA team avoids drafting Bronny and let's him go to the Lakers.
I know, i know Bronny probably won't even be good enough to play on an NBA roster till the 26-27 season.

I'm saying why not draft him, see if the small % chance Lebron will come over and or / make the Lakers pay to get Bronny to LA in a trade.

Because the % chance is 0.0.

Just let the Lakers pick him at 55 to save everyone the embarrassment.

[MultiTroll]

Because the % chance is 0.0.

Just let the Lakers pick him at 55 to save everyone the embarrassment.
You have 0% factual knowledge of Lebron and the Lakers 100% not wanting Bronny on their team bad enough to give back something if he's picked sooner.

[MultiTroll]

As for the question, I'd rather see Victor suffer a career ending injury and the Spurs move to Seattle before I'd want to see the King and Bronny show in San Antonio. :vomit:
How long had you been together when Lebron stole your girlfriend?

Ya continuing to see current Spurs miss Wemby with lobs is going to be soo much better then seeing Lebron toss him 6 accurate lobs per game.

[MultiTroll]

Clutch and the James previous fake spin that they wanted him to be his own man, go to whatever team he could. :lol

1795469670599860411

https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/01/NINTCHDBPICT000552623952.jpg?w=620 (https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/01/NINTCHDBPICT000552623952.jpg?w=620)

[scott]

I'm all on board with taking Bronny at 48 and holding the Lakers hostage to trade for him. The alternative is probably selling the pick for cash - and I personally have no rooting interest in how much cash the owners have.

[Knoxxx]

I'm all on board with taking Bronny at 48 and holding the Lakers hostage to trade for him. The alternative is probably selling the pick for cash - and I personally have no rooting interest in how much cash the owners have.

Does a 2RP always have a cash value? Like some sucker teams always just cough up $ for those? What if there is no market?

[scott]

Does a 2RP always have a cash value? Like some sucker teams always just cough up $ for those? What if there is no market?

I wonder if a team could just elect to not make a pick and forfeit it then? Or draft some overseas player you have no intention of inviting to camp or try to sign?

Hard to believe there wouldn't be at least one team who would take it for the minimum amount of cash (I believe it's $110,000)

[MultiTroll]

I'm all on board with taking Bronny at 48 and holding the Lakers hostage to trade for him. The alternative is probably selling the pick for cash - and I personally have no rooting interest in how much cash the owners have.
Sheesh
Any truth to this rumor of #17?

Lakers Likely to Pick Bronny James with 17th NBA Draft Pick | Watch (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lakers-likely-to-pick-bronny-james-with-17th-nba-draft-pick/vi-BB1nscPj?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=3b2011f689124b518b720505edd85ab7&ei=27)

[exstatic]

Does a 2RP always have a cash value? Like some sucker teams always just cough up $ for those? What if there is no market?

It depends on the pick #, but they’ve gone for a couple of million recently. I think there’s always a market of a few teams looking to get into the 30s and early 40s.

[Frenchfred]

The Spurs are looking at the 25 draft and don’t want to mess up their chances for a one year of Lebron. 2024-25 is another year for development for Wemby and hopefully 24 draft being interesting prospects to the Spurs. The Spurs are aiming for the bottom 8 next year.

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs are looking at the 25 draft and don’t want to mess up their chances for a one year of Lebron. 2024-25 is another year for development for Wemby and hopefully 24 draft being interesting prospects to the Spurs. The Spurs are aiming for the bottom 8 next year.

Eric Zhang is that you?

[MultiTroll]

The Spurs are aiming for the bottom 8 next year.
I doubt Wemby is on board for another Suck / Tank combo.

Lebron and Bronny would probably be a very tradeable asset after one year if the Spurs were to acquire them and hold their rights for 2 years.
Lebron keeps himself in top 2% shape in the world imo.
Plus they will be huge to ticket sales.
Many NBA owners caring only about the money.

[MultiTroll]

Lakers News: Analyst Predicts LeBron James' Exit from Los Angeles (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lakers-news-analyst-predicts-lebron-james-exit-from-los-angeles/ar-BB1o2Vur?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=67edc5d247f9458a99b51c887d7c6784&ei=18)

Do it Brian Wrong.

[goliath]

Personally I don’t want Lebron anywhere near Wemby. We have a 20 year old superstar who by all accounts wanted to be drafted here and wants to stay here. By all accounts he is on board with the front office and their plan to build a team. Why would anyone want lebron, Mr Player Empowerment, in his ear every plane trip telling him to force the team to mortgage the future, spend all their assets and then when all the assets are gone just leave to another team. Maybe 5-6 years of prime lebron would be worth it but not 1-2 years of 40 year old lebron.

[MultiTroll]

Personally I don’t want Lebron anywhere near Wemby. We have a 20 year old superstar who by all accounts wanted to be drafted here and wants to stay here. By all accounts he is on board with the front office and their plan to build a team. Why would anyone want lebron, Mr Player Empowerment, in his ear every plane trip telling him to force the team to mortgage the future, spend all their assets and then when all the assets are gone just leave to another team. Maybe 5-6 years of prime lebron would be worth it but not 1-2 years of 40 year old lebron.
When did this allegedly happen?
Cleveland I are you seriously holding it against Lebron for leaving shithole Cleveland who oh by the way he took to their 1st Finals ever for Miami?
Miami Boshs health took a turn and it was always going to be a 4 year gig. Ok for other people to take their computer, legal, whatever skills to another company but you insist Lebron has to stay where his White owner tells him to. O-kay.

Cleveland II he brings them a farking Championship over the Golden Phaggots. Kyrie is who walked away, not Lebron. But again, you expect him to stay after making his White Owner a shit ton of money and completely uplifting the Cleveland / Akron area.

Lebron imo would accept his new role as mentor and TEAM player with Wemby.

[benefactor]

Personally I don’t want Lebron anywhere near Wemby. We have a 20 year old superstar who by all accounts wanted to be drafted here and wants to stay here. By all accounts he is on board with the front office and their plan to build a team. Why would anyone want lebron, Mr Player Empowerment, in his ear every plane trip telling him to force the team to mortgage the future, spend all their assets and then when all the assets are gone just leave to another team. Maybe 5-6 years of prime lebron would be worth it but not 1-2 years of 40 year old lebron.
Not going to happen, but LeBron finishing his career here would be the best thing to ever happen to the Spurs outside of their lottery luck with robinson, Duncan and Wemby

[MultiTroll]

Lebron Hating Spurfan. :lol

James averaged 25.7 points, 8.3 assists and 7.3 rebounds in 71 games this past season -- the most games he has played in six seasons with the franchise. He shot 54% from the field and a career-best 41% from 3

And he plays excellent defense.

[scott]

I love how the Lebron haters and not-so-thinly veiled racists pop out of the woodwork to suddenly give a fuck about nepotism in sports now… all while forking money over to the Jones family by buying Cowboys jerseys

[benefactor]

I love how the Lebron haters and not-so-thinly veiled racists pop out of the woodwork to suddenly give a fuck about nepotism in sports now… all while forking money over to the Jones family by buying Cowboys jerseys
Come on now Scott...you know that it is Messicans keeping the Cowboys alive. They keep the Lakers alive too. I know you've been to his Spurs game when the Lakers come to San Antonio:lol

[Obstructed_View]

I love how the Lebron haters and not-so-thinly veiled racists pop out of the woodwork to suddenly give a fuck about nepotism in sports now… all while forking money over to the Jones family by buying Cowboys jerseys
Wait...which member of the Jones family did they draft?

[Pauleta14]

I love how the Lebron haters and not-so-thinly veiled racists pop out of the woodwork to suddenly give a fuck about nepotism in sports now… all while forking money over to the Jones family by buying Cowboys jerseys

I think the haters missed the target with their "nepotism" narrative.

The issue should never be that Lebron is favoritizing his son (what idiot wouldn't??)

The issue is that Bronny barely scored 4pts/game in a weak conference...

Usually before giving a job to your son (in your company for ex) you make sure he goes to the best school and doesn't quit after the 1st year, to assure he'd be a minimum qualified.

Personnally? I dgaf except for the stupid clickbaits all over youtube, every show has to talk about him...smh

[scott]

Wait...which member of the Jones family did they draft?

Here’s another one, coming out of the woodwork. Thanks for self-identifying.

Edit: my sincerest apologies if you were seriously asking because I wasn’t exactly clear in my post above that I’m referring to how the Jones family (among others) fills their entire executive ranks with their dumbass family who has failed at every step the last 30 years at running an NFL team. That’s their right to do that though, just like its Lebron’s right to exert his leverage to get his son a deal.

However, if you are just doing the thing where “BuT tHe JoNeS fAmIlY oWnS tHe TeAm” thing, then yeah, you’re either just a Lebron hater or worse, a racist.

[scott]

I think the haters missed the target with their "nepotism" narrative.

The issue should never be that Lebron is favoritizing his son (what idiot wouldn't??)

The issue is that Bronny barely scored 4pts/game in a weak conference...

Usually before giving a job to your son (in your company for ex) you make sure he goes to the best school and doesn't quit after the 1st year, to assure he'd be a minimum qualified.

Personnally? I dgaf except for the stupid clickbaits all over youtube, every show has to talk about him...smh

Bronny could have never picked up a basketball in his life. He’s exerting the influence he’s earned to get his kid a job that he doesn’t deserve… exactly how every other rich, usually white, asshole has done for generations. Most of the people who only think it’s a big deal now is because its a black man doing it.

The whole “But [whoever] owns the team, it’s different!” Take is just an attempt to justify the racism or Lebron hate. Bron owns the thing (his body and his ability to play basketball) that the Lakers want, and he’s using his leverage to get what he wants. More fuckin’ power to him. I’m far more concerned with dipshits like the Trump kids and Hunter Biden getting by off nepotism in areas that actually fucking matter than I am Lebron using his earned leverage to get his son a job.

[Pauleta14]

Bronny could have never picked up a basketball in his life. He’s exerting the influence he’s earned to get his kid a job that he doesn’t deserve… exactly how every other rich, usually white, asshole has done for generations. Most of the people who only think it’s a big deal now is because its a black man doing it.

The whole “But [whoever] owns the team, it’s different!” Take is just an attempt to justify the racism or Lebron hate. Bron owns the thing (his body and his ability to play basketball) that the Lakers want, and he’s using his leverage to get what he wants. More fuckin’ power to him. I’m far more concerned with dipshits like the Trump kids and Hunter Biden getting by off nepotism in areas that actually fucking matter than I am Lebron using his earned leverage to get his son a job.

I really don't see any racism tbh, I recall ppl making fun of Geoge Karl's son who had a better pedigree iircc or Luke Walton getting the Lakers job

People just like to shit on powerful people, whatever the colour of their skin, Lebron is just everywhere in the NBA medias, it makes people overreact.

It's up to Bronny to shut their mouths, he's almost lucky, expectations are so low, even if he's decent it'll be a win for him.

[scott]

I really don't see any racism tbh, I recall ppl making fun of Geoge Karl's son who had a better pedigree iircc or Luke Walton getting the Lakers job

People just like to shit on powerful people, whatever the colour of their skin, Lebron is just everywhere in the NBA medias, it makes people overreact.

It's up to Bronny to shut their mouths, he's almost lucky, expectations are so low, even if he's decent it'll be a win for him.

There was not nearly this kind of discussion about either of those guys (or the countless other examples of white guys benefiting from nepotism in sports or any other field). I realize you’re in France (or are from France and now in the US?) so maybe the cultural element of this is a little different… but there is definitely a major racial element to this. The venn diagram of folks up in arms about Bronny nepotism and the folks who are up in arms about slavery being taught in schools and shit like that… it’s a perfect circle.

[Pauleta14]

There was not nearly this kind of discussion about either of those guys (or the countless other examples of white guys benefiting from nepotism in sports or any other field). I realize you’re in France (or are from France and now in the US?) so maybe the cultural element of this is a little different… but there is definitely a major racial element to this. The venn diagram of folks up in arms about Bronny nepotism and the folks who are up in arms about slavery being taught in schools and shit like that… it’s a perfect circle.

None had close to the impact Lebron had. We're just seing a proportional reaction.

Look I'm not denying racial issues or motivations from some of the haters, I'm just saying it's a corelation more than the causation I gave you.

I currently live in London, but I'am aware of the social issues in te US, they're the same in europe. I have myself been disciminated my whole life bc of my origins (my dad was algerian and being arab in France is worse than black :lol ), so I have all the empathy in the world for what you're living.

But generalizing/oversimplifying is just going to make you angrier when more nuance and maybe analysis (respectfully) will give you a better picture

It's a basketball, networking, media, power, lobby, social injustice (financially speaking) issue, not a racial one. Even if in the lot you'll find some also racially motivated.

I hope I don't sound patronizing man, I've just been in your place when I was younger and know how much discriminations can impact the way we think. When emotions are involved, we just can't think clearly sometimes and we build up scenarios.

The Bronny's draft criticism is not racially motivated, it's just a great opportunity to shit on Lebron who's as much hated than he's loved

[scott]

None had close to the impact Lebron had. We're just seing a proportional reaction.

Look I'm not denying racial issues or motivations from some of the haters, I'm just saying it's a corelation more than the causation I gave you.

I currently live in London, but I'am aware of the social issues in te US, they're the same in europe. I have myself been disciminated my whole life bc of my origins (my dad was algerian and being arab in France is worse than black :lol ), so I have all the empathy in the world for what you're living.

But generalizing/oversimplifying is just going to make you angrier when more nuance and maybe analysis (respectfully) will give you a better picture

It's a basketball, networking, media, power, lobby, social injustice (financially speaking) issue, not a racial one. Even if in the lot you'll find some also racially motivated.

I hope I don't sound patronizing man, I've just been in your place when I was younger and know how much discriminations can impact the way we think. When emotions are involved, we just can't think clearly sometimes and we build up scenarios.

The Bronny's draft criticism is not racially motivated, it's just a great opportunity to shit on Lebron who's as much hated than he's loved

First of all, I’m not “angry” about anything - I can just see through this pretty clearly. And, respectfully, I don’t think you’re really all that aware of some of the racist social undercurrent that is going on in our country right now. The idea that this is about networking/media/power/lobby, etc doesn’t hold up, because all of those elements are at play at the nepotism in our country that happens day in and day out that no one gives a damn about. This is about one of two things: Lebron or race, and frankly some of the Lebron hate stems from a racist place to begin with.

I know Europe has its fare share of racism and hatred, but (again, respectfully) it’s just a different thing to what we continue to go through here (neither is worse than the other - they’re both despicable). The excuses people give to suddenly care about the Bronny nepotism is just that: excuses. You can find tons of examples of every single reason people are pretending to be upset happening with white dudes, and folks given zero shits about. Honestly, in my mind, nepotism isn’t even really something to give a shit about anyway. It’s someone using their influence/cache/value to benefit their families which is what each and everyone one of us does when we go to work everyday. It’s just that some people offer more influence/cache/value than others. Fuck it, flaunt it if you got it. I’m a middle aged, upper class, mixed race asshole myself… and trust me, I’m going to use every bit of leverage I have to help out my kids too.

[Obstructed_View]

or worse, a racist.

Oh no. Not a racist.

Plonk, faggot.

[Pauleta14]

First of all, I’m not “angry” about anything - I can just see through this pretty clearly. And, respectfully, I don’t think you’re really all that aware of some of the racist social undercurrent that is going on in our country right now. The idea that this is about networking/media/power/lobby, etc doesn’t hold up, because all of those elements are at play at the nepotism in our country that happens day in and day out that no one gives a damn about. This is about one of two things: Lebron or race, and frankly some of the Lebron hate stems from a racist place to begin with.

I know Europe has its fare share of racism and hatred, but (again, respectfully) it’s just a different thing to what we continue to go through here (neither is worse than the other - they’re both despicable). The excuses people give to suddenly care about the Bronny nepotism is just that: excuses. You can find tons of examples of every single reason people are pretending to be upset happening with white dudes, and folks given zero shits about. Honestly, in my mind, nepotism isn’t even really something to give a shit about anyway. It’s someone using their influence/cache/value to benefit their families which is what each and everyone one of us does when we go to work everyday. It’s just that some people offer more influence/cache/value than others. Fuck it, flaunt it if you got it. I’m a middle aged, upper class, mixed race asshole myself… and trust me, I’m going to use every bit of leverage I have to help out my kids too.

Just bck now I was in full insomnia mode and finnaly managed to sleep a bit.

I should have used the word upset rather than angry, not alwasy easy to find the right words in english tbh...

I probably follow US's news even more than the French's (there's an election today and the extrem right has a chance to be in power for the 1st time in modern era, so trust me the issues a global and the same everywhere) or the UK's (where I live). It's not a competition haha, my point is just that I really understand what you're talking about.

Just to stay on the Bronny topic, haven't you met, heard or read black people criticising or shitting on Lebron? Or just ppl you know aren't racist? Because I have.

Now if you only focus on social medias's reactions, you have to remind yourself that those don't give an exhaustive picture of the situation, just the caricature and both extreme reactions mainly (the haters and the fanboys basically)

Angry people, extrem pov do post A LOT more than reular people who dgaf

It's the same principle than reviews online, upset people will alwasy be more vocal than the peaceful majority

Again not trying to be patronizing (I feel like I sound like it^^), I'm just getting old, have studied sociology and keep seing the exact same mechanisms by myself.

We all mix correlation and causation at some point and your perception of racism being the motivation for Bronny's draft criticism is a clear case of a correlation being interpreted as the causation to me.

The real racism/discrimination is alwasy social. Especailly in US or UK where success/money has no colour.

Old european catholic countries like France rely so much on networking than the chances of success of a black arab asian etc is far less probable than in the US or the UK. not even close. (It's one of the main reasons I moved then stayed in London despite being from a far more beautiful city ^^)

Don't go to France if ur black :lol

And if u feel for Bronny remember how lucky he is, even if he's average it'll be a win for him.

[scott]

Just bck now I was in full insomnia mode and finnaly managed to sleep a bit.

I should have used the word upset rather than angry, not alwasy easy to find the right words in english tbh...

I probably follow US's news even more than the French's (there's an election today and the extrem right has a chance to be in power for the 1st time in modern era, so trust me the issues a global and the same everywhere) or the UK's (where I live). It's not a competition haha, my point is just that I really understand what you're talking about.

Just to stay on the Bronny topic, haven't you met, heard or read black people criticising or shitting on Lebron? Or just ppl you know aren't racist? Because I have.

Now if you only focus on social medias's reactions, you have to remind yourself that those don't give an exhaustive picture of the situation, just the caricature and both extreme reactions mainly (the haters and the fanboys basically)

Angry people, extrem pov do post A LOT more than reular people who dgaf

It's the same principle than reviews online, upset people will alwasy be more vocal than the peaceful majority

Again not trying to be patronizing (I feel like I sound like it^^), I'm just getting old, have studied sociology and keep seing the exact same mechanisms by myself.

We all mix correlation and causation at some point and your perception of racism being the motivation for Bronny's draft criticism is a clear case of a correlation being interpreted as the causation to me.

The real racism/discrimination is alwasy social. Especailly in US or UK where success/money has no colour.

Old european catholic countries like France rely so much on networking than the chances of success of a black arab asian etc is far less probable than in the US or the UK. not even close. (It's one of the main reasons I moved then stayed in London despite being from a far more beautiful city ^^)

Don't go to France if ur black :lol

And if u feel for Bronny remember how lucky he is, even if he's average it'll be a win for him.

Re: the bolded part, yes - that's largely the Bron hater camp, not the racist camp. If you go back and read, you'll see I've consistently offered two primary reasons.

As for the rest, we'll just agree to disagree. Is there a handful of people who are just upset by the idea of nepotism overall and feel like this topic a platform to speak out against it? Sure, but there are a lot more people who just see a black man using his influence.

Just today, Lada Gaga had her law firm drop their representation of P Diddy by threatening to leave. I've yet to see a single article on how Lady Gaga is abusing her influence and leverage.

[Knoxxx]

I was excited to see Bronny go to LAL what a great storyline
.
And I definitely don’t see it making LAL improve so even bettah baby!!!

[MultiTroll]

I was excited to see Bronny go to LAL what a great storyline
.
And I definitely don’t see it making LAL improve so even bettah baby!!!
No better true.
But better in the sense that Lebron stays.
He purportedly he will take less then max.
Now is he going to do a Timmy Duncan take less in pursuing a Championship? No. Sounds like he'll maybe go 20% less.

There just probably never will be another Duncan.
Unless Wemby.....

[Pauleta14]

Re: the bolded part, yes - that's largely the Bron hater camp, not the racist camp. If you go back and read, you'll see I've consistently offered two primary reasons.

As for the rest, we'll just agree to disagree. Is there a handful of people who are just upset by the idea of nepotism overall and feel like this topic a platform to speak out against it? Sure, but there are a lot more people who just see a black man using his influence.

Just today, Lada Gaga had her law firm drop their representation of P Diddy by threatening to leave. I've yet to see a single article on how Lady Gaga is abusing her influence and leverage.

I guess, but it's all good, I like exchanging with diff pov

Don't you think Lebron has/is also a lot protected in the medias (who need him)? 99% of them are dfending him vigorously...

There are too many counter examples for your theory to be true imo. I forgot about the Tanazis instance lol ... Nobody hates on him, it's just hillarious and 99% of ppl acknowledge they'd do the same thing...

I think you underrate 2 things, 1, how much years of Lebron forcing his narrative has drawn ppl againt him, a lot are very active/haters, many prob lead by racist sentiments but still are fans of another player who happens to be black.
And 2 the fact that Bronny wasn't even decent but really bad in college (I know there are excuses, the operation etc, but still, it impacts how ppl perceive his level)

As for the global subject on itself, I'd add that it's requires nuance but everybody tends to put everything in the same box.

People are confusing racist and enophobic sentiments, ethnicism and communautarism etc

In the end it's most of the time a social discrimination. Rich black people are as much critic toward the cliches of "black communautarism" than white ppl for ex

Anyway, good talk :)

[scott]

I guess, but it's all good, I like exchanging with diff pov

Don't you think Lebron has/is also a lot protected in the medias (who need him)? 99% of them are dfending him vigorously...

There are too many counter examples for your theory to be true imo. I forgot about the Tanazis instance lol ... Nobody hates on him, it's just hillarious and 99% of ppl acknowledge they'd do the same thing...

I think you underrate 2 things, 1, how much years of Lebron forcing his narrative has drawn ppl againt him, a lot are very active/haters, many prob lead by racist sentiments but still are fans of another player who happens to be black.
And 2 the fact that Bronny wasn't even decent but really bad in college (I know there are excuses, the operation etc, but still, it impacts how ppl perceive his level)

As for the global subject on itself, I'd add that it's requires nuance but everybody tends to put everything in the same box.

People are confusing racist and enophobic sentiments, ethnicism and communautarism etc

In the end it's most of the time a social discrimination. Rich black people are as much critic toward the cliches of "black communautarism" than white ppl for ex

Anyway, good talk :)

Man, there is so much depth to this that I honestly don't even want to get into. But "I like other black players" isn't an exoneration from racism. It's that Lebron is the kind of black folks don't like: outspoken, opinionated, powerful. These people don't like blacks who exist beyond the comfort zone of their pre-prescribed notions of what blacks should be. There is an old racist trope: "I don't dislike black people, I just hate those n----". That's some of the nuance at play here... but your free to believe whatever you want. Nepotism is rarely an issue in America where unless there is some other underlying agenda at play. Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's because someone doesn't like a particular person... but even those who think nepotism is a problem, it's not that top of mind here until it's convenient vehicle for other gripes.

[Pauleta14]

Man, there is so much depth to this that I honestly don't even want to get into. But "I like other black players" isn't an exoneration from racism. It's that Lebron is the kind of black folks don't like: outspoken, opinionated, powerful. These people don't like blacks who exist beyond the comfort zone of their pre-prescribed notions of what blacks should be. There is an old racist trope: "I don't dislike black people, I just hate those n----". That's some of the nuance at play here... but your free to believe whatever you want. Nepotism is rarely an issue in America where unless there is some other underlying agenda at play. Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's because someone doesn't like a particular person... but even those who think nepotism is a problem, it's not that top of mind here until it's convenient vehicle for other gripes.

I agree, it's too deep and I'm not comfortable enough writting in english to go on tbh ^^

I'll end up on an optimistic note, repeating that it's actually a great thing for Bronny big picture wise, he almost can only go up