Size doesn’t matter

[Dejounte]

For all those obsessed with size… I present to you a small PP doing work:


https://x.com/worldwidewob/status/1785122173310681231?s=46

https://x.com/coalitionhoops/status/1785330179734208652?s=46

PP = Playoff Performer

[LeBowen]

It's all about girth!

Ingram was in Dorture chamber all series long.

[spurraider21]

Size definitely matters. Center of gravity also matters a lot when it comes to holding position. Low man wins, etc. it’s why brooks was able to frustrate wemby so much.

it’s incumbent on ingram to use his length, long strides, high release to take advantage of the shorter defender the way durant does

[Mugen]

Bend over, I'll show you size doesn't matter.

[itzsoweezee]

Let’s not mention that Dort has a 6’8” wingspan

[MultiTroll]

foul?

[Spurs Homer]

Ingram has taken years and hasnt learned like wemby did after half a season....

If you are skinny - skinner than KD - like ingram and wemby -
you have to sell fouls - you have to learn what the refs will do to make the defender stop draping themselves onto your frame and not allowing you to move freely

wemby was drawing "steffie" type whistles by the end of the season and it bodes well for the spurs future

[Ef-man]

Don’t act ignorant, size does matter.

Remember how proud you were of your old 32” CRT color TV, until you saw the new 65” HD plasma TVs!

Go on, convince your significant other that 32” is better than 65.” I dare you!

[Sugus]

Like the post, hard disagree with the premise.

Basketball might well be one of the sports where size (and height) matters the most. One bad matchup/series/player isn't changing reality.

[John B]

Size matters. See the Suns overpowered by T’Wolves. Jokic manhandled Davis down low. Especially in the playoffs when the game goes slower, and more when you get to the 2nd round through the Finals. Every possession counts.

Wemby would need big bodies to take some of the beating

[Spurs Homer]

Size matters. See the Suns overpowered by T’Wolves. Jokic manhandled Davis down low. Especially in the playoffs when the game goes slower, and more when you get to the 2nd round through the Finals. Every possession counts.

Wemby would need big bodies to take some of the beating

I watched Ingram take a beating from Dort and Ingram just basically gave up.

He allowed Dort to impose his will and yes - Dort - is much much stronger than Ingram.
Had Ingram learned anything the past few years, he would have easily fouled out Dort or torched him by living at the free throw line.

[Chinook]

Size matters, but it doesn't matter in the same ways it used to. Guys like Dort, Smart and White can totally guard most perimeter players. Being strong, sturdy and savvy are critical. Too much emphasis is placed on players being able to see the rim while shooting, which is where the attachment to height comes in. Most modern scorers shoot so much that vision isn't that important, especially since you can train for that. What is important is being able to get to those spots where the scorer has practiced shooting, since the power and angle they put into those shots has been honed. A girthy player allowed to be physical can push a scorer off their spots, which will drop their percentage more than a taller guy putting a hand in the face of a scorer who was able to get to his spot uncontested.

It's not a fluke that Ingram struggled against Dort or Wemby struggled against Williams and Brooks. Certain types of offense are more susceptible to that kind of defense than others. That doesn't mean that you want to only have short stocky defenders. Long, rangy guys can play passing lanes and help protect the rim. Quick guys can cut off lanes, slip in for charges, provide full-court pressure, etc. The Spurs could use any of these archetypes, from a guy with Collier's build but with more defensive chops for a guy with Dillingham's quickness but with more chutzpah to someone with Castle's length. They aren't limited to one archetype right now with so many long-term holes to fill. It's important that whichever path they go that they have a plan on how to turn those weaknesses into positive or mostly neutral traits. I chose to focus on PGs here, but obviously fowardss have a similar range of types, from stocky guys like Dort to guys who are practically seven-footers like Smith to in-between guys like Sochan. The same principles apply.

[LeBowen]

Size matters. See the Suns overpowered by T’Wolves. Jokic manhandled Davis down low. Especially in the playoffs when the game goes slower, and more when you get to the 2nd round through the Finals. Every possession counts.

Wemby would need big bodies to take some of the beating

Wolves had McDaniels on KD and Conley is their starting point guard.
Knicks are killing Sixers on the glass despite never having more than one player taller than 6'7 on the floor and their SF is 6'5.
They also happen to be two best defensive teams in the playoffs so far.

Noone is saying that Spurs should build a roster of midgets, but if there's a point guard in the draft who can become a 23/8 playmaker in the playoffs, you take him. Regardless of his size.

[KingKev]

OP been telling himself this since puberty. All about the motion in the ocean right?!?

[RC_Drunkford]

saying that when you got Wemby on your team is kinda weird....

[LeBowen]

saying that when you got Wemby on your team is kinda weird....

Size matters only if the player has actual NBA skills.
Otherwise there would be no difference between Wemby, Bol Bol and Tacko Fall.

[wildbill2u]

It isn't simply the size as measured by height. If it was, then Muresan, Boban or some of the other giants with great height would be candidates for GOAT. What matters is the way the athlete melds his height with agility and his physical presence (weight, musculature). Wemby shows a good combination of height and agility as a rookie. I think we all would agree that he could use some added musculature without losing his agility which should come naturally as he ages, not to mention his work ethic at building a stronger body. That potential future development is what is mind bending.

[The Truth #6]

"That's what he said."

[Mr. Body]

Something like 22% of the players in the NBA are 6'3" or shorter. It's very common.

There's also this newfangled myth running around that the Spurs try to find big points, when this is more happenstance than an overriding desire. Parker was not tall. Dejounte was tall and long, but they didn't draft him specifically for those reasons. The Sochan experiment seemed less about a tall point than trying to 1) get Keldon into the starting lineup to see if it worked, and 2) go for a jumbo lineup all around.

If Dillingham can manage to be close to Parker on defense, that's just returning to the mean of twenty years for the franchise.

[spurraider21]

tony parker was 6'2 with a 6'4 wingspan, and he wasnt exactly built like a tank either (he did get a little chunkier during his porker years). and he didnt have the outside shot to help mitigate that. then again, he was an all-timer when it came to speed and creative finishing.

all i know is kemba was under 6 feet, had a successful NBA career

[Proxy]

Pop already knows this. Why he played Blair/Bonner and Patty/Forbes so often

[JPB]

tony parker was 6'2 with a 6'4 wingspan, and he wasnt exactly built like a tank either (he did get a little chunkier during his porker years). and he didnt have the outside shot to help mitigate that. then again, he was an all-timer when it came to speed and creative finishing.

all i know is kemba was under 6 feet, had a successful NBA career

Kemba walker (who is now playing France...) made the POs 5 times and missed them 7 times his NBA career, including his last 2 years.

He never made the finals, made the WCF once, and the semi once (the same year obviously). First round exit the 6 other years...

And TP was TP, in another era where this wasn't yet all about postionless BB and 3 pt shooting. Timmy wouldn't be as dominant if he had to play today.

[spurraider21]

Kemba walker (who is now playing France...) made the POs 5 times and missed them 7 times his NBA career, including his last 2 years.

He never made the finals, made the WCF once, and the semi once (the same year obviously). First round exit the 6 other years...

And TP was TP, in another era where this wasn't yet all about postionless BB and 3 pt shooting. Timmy wouldn't be as dominant if he had to play today.
Kemba was tasked with being the #1 player on bad Charlotte teams most of his career. He wasn’t a good #1 option. Luckily the spurs already have their #1

[Pauleta14]

Kemba walker (who is now playing France...) made the POs 5 times and missed them 7 times his NBA career, including his last 2 years.

He never made the finals, made the WCF once, and the semi once (the same year obviously). First round exit the 6 other years...

And TP was TP, in another era where this wasn't yet all about postionless BB and 3 pt shooting. Timmy wouldn't be as dominant if he had to play today.

Timmy pre Knee brace would dominate for sure

Post, he'd have retired a decade earlier

[Mr. Body]

Kemba walker (who is now playing France...) made the POs 5 times and missed them 7 times his NBA career, including his last 2 years.

He never made the finals, made the WCF once, and the semi once (the same year obviously). First round exit the 6 other years...

And TP was TP, in another era where this wasn't yet all about postionless BB and 3 pt shooting. Timmy wouldn't be as dominant if he had to play today.

If Kemba Walker had Wembanyama, he probably at least makes the Finals.

These takes about how small players don't win championships are kinda weird. Huge players don't win championships, either. Rudy Gobert didn't win a championship, Karl Malone didn't, Mark Eaton didn't. An insane number of good players of every body type didn't win championships. Very, very few players ever do.

[Vienna]

Steve Nash was listed 6'3", an exaggeration, in fact he was slightly smaller than Tony. rather small, thin and not really fast. would Nash still be that successful today. (yeah I know he didn't win a ring). likely yes, his feel, genius IQ, dribble and shooting might be as useful as it was 20 years ago. he couldn't defend anyone back in the days and wouldn't this days. (but there is likely no Steve Nash equivalent in todays NBA)

Ky was measured 6'1.75" w/o shoes, (average 6'4" wingspan). Dame exactly the same height (longer wingspan at 6'7.75"). Brunsen is 6'1" in socks (ws 6'4"). they do well, at least on offense.

I think the decisive factor is strength, when evaluating a smaller player, asking if he can survive on defense. Chris Paul did well on defense using his strenght.

[stnick2261]

Tony Parker was listed 6'2" at a time when teams regularly added an extra inch to everybody on the roster list. I met Tony and we are the same height (6'1") in shoes. It pissed me off when he dunked in-game because he was 1 month younger than me and the same height, lol.

Skill matters most... but when skill is the same, size breaks the tie.

[Extra Stout]

I am not loving the line of reasoning that says small guards can’t win championships, except that only the last eight to ten years count, and Stephen Curry doesn’t count because reasons, and Kyrie Irving doesn’t count because reasons, and Fred Van Vleet and Kyle Lowry don’t count because reasons, so really we’re talking about a sample size of three years.

[JPB]

I am not loving the line of reasoning that says small guards can’t win championships, except that only the last eight to ten years count, and Stephen Curry doesn’t count because reasons, and Kyrie Irving doesn’t count because reasons, and Fred Van Vleet and Kyle Lowry don’t count because reasons, so really we’re talking about a sample size of three years.

Not saying you can't in a vacuum, but Curry and Kyrie were MVP level players, the first one being the best shooter in history and the second one who had arguably the potential to be one of the best shooting PG in history too, wiht even better handles and penetration skills than Curry.

So that leaves us with FVV and Lowry as the excpetion if we're talking lesser PGs, which is the argument I believe regarding some PGs available in this draft, who I'm really not sure could actually reach Van vleet or Lowry level. Do I believe you can win a ship or really compete in the POs with Dillingham as your starting PG? I'd say no. His skills and talent are not big enough to compensate his flaws and how targeted he would be.

[Extra Stout]

Not saying you can't in a vacuum, but Curry and Kyrie were MVP level players, the first one being the best shooter in history and the second one who had arguably the potential to be one of the best shooting PG in history too, wiht even better handles and penetration skills than Curry.

So that leaves us with FVV and Lowry as the excpetion if we're talking lesser PGs, which is the argument I believe regarding some PGs available in this draft, who I'm really not sure could actually reach Van vleet or Lowry level. Do I believe you can win a ship or really compete in the POs with Dillingham as your starting PG? I'd say no. His skills and talent are not big enough to compensate his flaws and how targeted he would be.
I think the key point is “MVP-level players” or at least Hall-of-Fame caliber. You get a couple of those and you’re cooking, even if one of them is 6’2”.

I don’t think Rob Dillingham is that. I actually suspect he is too small — not just short, but small and slight — for his assets to make up the difference as an NBA player. But if I’m wrong and he actually becomes the second coming of Tony Parker, then I don’t think his being 6’1” or whatever is a barrier to winning.

[LeBowen]

Not saying you can't in a vacuum, but Curry and Kyrie were MVP level players, the first one being the best shooter in history and the second one who had arguably the potential to be one of the best shooting PG in history too, wiht even better handles and penetration skills than Curry.

So that leaves us with FVV and Lowry as the excpetion if we're talking lesser PGs, which is the argument I believe regarding some PGs available in this draft, who I'm really not sure could actually reach Van vleet or Lowry level. Do I believe you can win a ship or really compete in the POs with Dillingham as your starting PG? I'd say no. His skills and talent are not big enough to compensate his flaws and how targeted he would be.

The problem is that we're all too quick to dismiss or hype these players.
FVV was undrafted. Didn't get meaningful minutes until he was 23.
Didn't play close to his current level until he was 25. There are just too many variables for us to be certain how someone develops.

And I'd take Lowry out of this discussion. While he's short, he's damn strong and easily guards a lot of wings.

[R. DeMurre]

I think context is important when talking about small guards and back courts generally. A 6'2" PG paired with a 6'6" SG is fine, as was the case for the successful years of Steph with 6'6" Klay, Kyrie with 6'6" JR Smith, Lowry with 6'6" Danny Green, Parker with 6'6" Manu/Green/Barry etc... The trouble occurs when both back court guys are undersized, as was the case in Dame/McCollum, Iverson/Snow, Conley/Mitchell. Guard combos where both are smallish almost never win championships.

[spurraider21]

and on that note, Vassell is a legit 6'5 and change, with a solid wingspan. not exactly skinny/frail either. he was small-ish for a forward, but well sized for a guard

[itzsoweezee]

I think context is important when talking about small guards and back courts generally. A 6'2" PG paired with a 6'6" SG is fine, as was the case for the successful years of Steph with 6'6" Klay, Kyrie with 6'6" JR Smith, Lowry with 6'6" Danny Green, Parker with 6'6" Manu/Green/Barry etc... The trouble occurs when both back court guys are undersized, as was the case in Dame/McCollum, Iverson/Snow, Conley/Mitchell. Guard combos where both are smallish almost never win championships.

True, a team can compete with a small point guard if it can compensate through, not just size, but great defenders in the rest of the lineup. Vassel is not exactly a great defender, Sochan should be better but constantly makes mistakes on defense, and champagnie is just a placeholder. The Spurs have a lot of work left to do and choosing a one-way player as the point going forward is just going to make things harder