The Case for Taking Ron Holland 4OA

[RobinsontoDuncan]

This has been one of the weirdest NBA drafts I have evaluated in a really long time. Outside of Alex Sarr l, who I had as my 1OA player even prior to the Ignite showcase in the fall, my personal draft rankings have changed at least 10 times over the course of the season as players I liked before the season like Adem Bona, Aday Mara, and Isiah Collier had horrible seasons, guys I really liked such as Ryan Dunn fell off a cliff by the end of the season, and as other guys I was less high on slowly crept up my draft board once I accounted for circumstances, potential and need.

One guy who I was really low on at the beginning of the season that I have since come around on is Ron Holland. While his shooting is still very much a work in progress, one thing that is not disputable is his eye popping athleticism which Holland combines with a relentless motor, strong work ethic, and defensive intensity. If Holland ends up in the right situation, I think he could easily end up being the best player from this draft due to his outstanding two way potential, which could see Holland develop into a consistent first team all-NBA defense type guy who can also penetrate, run out on the fast break and (if his shot develops) become a lethal three level scorer in the NBA. Simply put, I don’t think there is another wing in this year’s draft that has his potential, and I think inserting him into the Spurs lineup should instantly make the Spurs a much better defensive team.

I also think that, given the three teams picking after the Spurs at 4, there is a very, very good chance the Spurs could still draft Rob Dillingham at 8OA, solidifying a starting 5 that could easily develop into a NBA title contender within two to three years time. The reason I would take Holland before Dillingham is simple: there should be at least one high level PG available at 8 (I am sure one of Castle, Sheppard, or Dillingham will be there) but Holland would be a good fit for Detroit or Portland, and I could even see Charlotte taking him if they decide to move on from the domestic abuser currently on their roster.

Here’s a good break down of Holland, who gives me strong Kawhi vibes in terms of defensive impact on the perimeter.


https://youtu.be/rXwxeAfsevk?si=JVkoEyf0VOgCJc8E

[CGD]

I suspect he’ll be a riser during the combine process, but I wonder if he could be had at 8 (rather than 4).

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, exactly, what Holland should bring is defense but with some upside into an offensive role. He would do well on a fast break team like the Spurs off the bench but will need a lot of work on that shot. I think considering him at 8 makes more sense. He seems like a Houston type player but no way are they picking him that high.

He's from Texas, so that's one advantage for him buying into San Antonio as a place to commit to.

[John B]

I have no problem taking him at 8th, but defending if we don’t get Risacher at 4th. And I’d first take any of Dilly, Topic, Castle though. Cody Williams is another consideration for me at 8th. The Combine and individual workouts would really play huge in this class, and I’m hoping the Spurs will make their best diligence, since Primo, Samanic and Joe also performed very well at the Combine. Wesley killed it in his workout, though I really like his spirit just waiting for him to put it all together. Somehow Spurs scout heavily relied on Combine but missing that “it” on those selections. Lonnie fought his way through adversities growing up, but seems not to have the bball IQ.

Anyways, Holland has the potential of being a very good 2way, likewise Cody Williams at 8th.

[baseline bum]

I think it's going to really depend on how good Holland looks in private workouts, which of course we'll never know. I'd be pretty surprised if Sheppard gets past Houston though, he seems like the obvious guy for them to take at 3 to put an elite shooter with Sengun, which would be desperately needed considering how bad a shooter Amen is. Holland is probably my first choice at 8 as a swing for the fences gamble but at 4 I want to get someone with a pretty good floor like Dilly or Risacher. Take Holland at 4 and you're probably forced into another boom or bust pick in Topic at 8 or maybe Castle who is a terrible fit unless the coaching staff can teach him a jumpshot. Could end up with nothing useful out of this draft taking two home run swings.

[adonis827]

Sounds like the Thompson twins specially the Detroit guy for defense. Would not be bad to have

[Mr. Body]

As mentioned elsewhere, Holland's production in Ignite is the same or a bit better than Jonathan Kuminga in Ignite.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ron-holland--jonathan-kuminga

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think it's going to really depend on how good Holland looks in private workouts, which of course we'll never know. I'd be pretty surprised if Sheppard gets past Houston though, he seems like the obvious guy for them to take at 3 to put an elite shooter with Sengun, which would be desperately needed considering how bad a shooter Amen is. Holland is probably my first choice at 8 as a swing for the fences gamble but at 4 I want to get someone with a pretty good floor like Dilly or Risacher. Take Holland at 4 and you're probably forced into another boom or bust pick in Topic at 8 or maybe Castle who is a terrible fit unless the coaching staff can teach him a jumpshot. Could end up with nothing useful out of this draft taking two home run swings.

I don’t think Holland’s shot is anywhere near as broken as either of the Thompson twins’. I also think that Holland has a higher floor than Dillingham or Sheppherd as there are so many ways Holland ends up a plus starter on a championship contender given his ideal positional size and athleticism. Big, powerful, two-way wings are essential in the playoffs, and athletes of Holland’s caliber only come around every couple of years. I don’t think there’s a single perimeter player in the NBA that will be able to take advantage of Holland from an athleticism standpoint over a 7 game series, and there’s only a handful of prospects over the past 5 drafts I would put in that category: Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, Antony Edwards, the Thompson twins, and Ron Holland.

There were games when Dillingham and Shepherd were both unplayable from a size and athleticism perspective, particularly against tougher opponents. I think both have really high offensive ceilings that they’ll have to at least come close to just to be a net positive player in the NBA, which is why they have lower floors than Holland to me.

[exstatic]

I think it's going to really depend on how good Holland looks in private workouts, which of course we'll never know. I'd be pretty surprised if Sheppard gets past Houston though, he seems like the obvious guy for them to take at 3 to put an elite shooter with Sengun, which would be desperately needed considering how bad a shooter Amen is. Holland is probably my first choice at 8 as a swing for the fences gamble but at 4 I want to get someone with a pretty good floor like Dilly or Risacher. Take Holland at 4 and you're probably forced into another boom or bust pick in Topic at 8 or maybe Castle who is a terrible fit unless the coaching staff can teach him a jumpshot. Could end up with nothing useful out of this draft taking two home run swings.

Everyone in this draft is boom or bust. There isn’t one player you can point to and say that he absolutely WILL be a star. There isn’t even a clear concensus #1. It comes down to preferences for observers, and future projections for GMs.

[baseline bum]

Everyone in this draft is boom or bust. There isn’t one player you can point to and say that he absolutely WILL be a star. There isn’t even a clear concensus #1. It comes down to preferences for observers, and future projections for GMs.

Topic is way more boom or bust than Dillingham for example considering Dillingham can shoot the three, has an in between game, and can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. Topic only has the last of these three. If he ever develops the first two he'll be a way better PG than Dillingham but if he doesn't he's not an NBA PG since teams can just back off him.

[Mr. Body]

Topic is way more boom or bust than Dillingham for example considering Dillingham can shoot the three, has an in between game, and can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. Topic only has the last of these three. If he ever develops the first two he'll be a way better PG than Dillingham but if he doesn't he's not an NBA PG since teams can just back off him.

Dillingham's floor, to me, is as a flamethrower off the bench. Topic's floor is, as you say, hard to really like. Killian Hayes without the defense.

[OldMan88]

Since we really need to add a defender, this guy could be a prime candidate.

[Atl Spur]

Ron could work here

[Chinook]

He could easily be better than Risacher. Or he could bust. The Spurs gotta figure out which is which.

[couchman]

Holland and Castle seem like the ultimate upside picks.
Their athletic gifts and other skills could be deadly IF they can learn to shoot.
I like either one with the 8th pick.

[exstatic]

It would be total irony if we pick Ron at 8, he hits all of his upside tails, and we get the new Kawhi as a continuation of the trade for the old broken-down one.

[Knoxxx]

I believe timvp and also perhaps others stated, let’s see the combine measurements and go from there. We have a lot of wing SFs in the the 6-8 range that may measure out higher or lower and then what is their wingspan and vertical. Not all of these guys may be done growing either since last measured.

The deciding factor on these guys could easily be true numbers re length and athleticism.

[onechance87]

isnt holland pretty much cissokko...We saw what cissokko could do is much what holland would do.

[exstatic]

isnt holland pretty much cissokko...We saw what cissokko could do is much what holland would do.

Cissoko’s shot is truly the stuff of nightmares. Hollands isn’t nearly as bad. Sidy is also kore of a big creator than a wing scorer, which would be the high level outcome of Holland.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There were games when Dillingham and Shepherd were both unplayable from a size and athleticism perspective, particularly against tougher opponents. I think both have really high offensive ceilings that they’ll have to at least come close to just to be a net positive player in the NBA, which is why they have lower floors than Holland to me.

Agree with this. All of the Kentucky kids were seriously unplayable at times. Especially given their talent and the other talent on the court with them. If teams can scheme and take those guys out of games completely in the SEC, well guess what's gonna happen in the pros?

[heyheymymy]

Wary of Holland's shooting but he hit unofficial combine FT at 90% (9/10) so perhaps strong shooting sig?

And 7th overall combine max vert

https://i.redd.it/0rfaqo4mv80d1.jpeg

[Mr. Body]

Agree with this. All of the Kentucky kids were seriously unplayable at times. Especially given their talent and the other talent on the court with them. If teams can scheme and take those guys out of games completely in the SEC, well guess what's gonna happen in the pros?

I watched pretty much all the Kentucky games through conference play and into the tournament. Exactly when were the Kentucky kids unplayable? Because they were always in down the stretch. Those were their best players and they played.

[ginobilized]

Do Sochan and Hollands strengths and weaknesses overlap too much? Holland seems a better offensive player from day 1.
Defensively they might be similar. Sochan seems like a better playmaker and ball handler. I don't think you can have too many wings in the NBA today.
If he's there at 8, I'd probably grab him unless Dillingham or Castle are still on the board. Might be a coin flip between he and Buzelis if both are there.

[Chinook]

I watched pretty much all the Kentucky games through conference play and into the tournament. Exactly when were the Kentucky kids unplayable?

To be fair, they weren't able to play after the first round.

[Chinook]

Do Sochan and Hollands strengths and weaknesses overlap too much? Holland seems a better offensive player from day 1.
Defensively they might be similar. Sochan seems like a better playmaker and ball handler. I don't think you can have too many wings in the NBA today.
If he's there at 8, I'd probably grab him unless Dillingham or Castle are still on the board. Might be a coin flip between he and Buzelis if both are there.

I'm hoping Holland can be for the bench what Sochan has been for the first unit but that the starting three role is filled by a vet. Because I want a bench guy with upside and defense, it's hard for me to get excited about a guy like Knecht. The Spurs don't need to try to draft veteran leadership. They should go out and acquire vets that have already proven themselves.

[CGD]

I’d be pleased with either Holland or Castle at 8, to go along with Matas or Risacher at 4

[SouthernFryd]

I like him. I'd take him at 8.

A real defender on the Spurs. Wemby wouldn't be alone. Has some Kawhi in him. Spurs would no longer be a walk-over team. Wing defenders are rare.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Interestingly John Hollinger of the Athletic has Ron Holland as the top prospect in the draft

(2 Castle, 3 Clingan, 4 Sheppard, 5 Sarr, 6 Topic,
7 Buzelis, 8 Dillingham. Risacher down at 13)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Interestingly John Hollinger of the Athletic has Ron Holland as the top prospect in the draft

(2 Castle, 3 Clingan, 4 Sheppard, 5 Sarr, 6 Topic,
7 Buzelis, 8 Dillingham. Risacher down at 13)

Yeah, this is why I am doubtful he will be available at 8

[mystargtr34]

Ron Holland was never going to slide past both Charlotte and Portland at 6 and 7, especially Portland who badly need a big wing. I can see Dilly sliding down to 8 if the Spurs skip him at 4 as I don’t think any of the 5-8 teams want a PG.

If the Spurs want Holland they’ll have to pick him at 4. There’s a good chance he’ll be there as I don’t think Hawks, Wiz or Rox will take him. Maybe the Wiz if they’re going purely upside but then there’s overlap with Coulibaly.

[Mr. Peabody]

I’d be happy with Holland at #4 and Dilly at #8

[AusSpur]

There is chatter the Holland has questions about his character, and the Spurs usually steer clear of these players regardless of talent.

[BackHome]

There is chatter the Holland has questions about his character, and the Spurs usually steer clear of these players regardless of talent.

Probably going to hear a lot of rumors 99% are just BS or stuff agents or teams are trying to sale to get the outcome they want..

[DPG21920]

I pretty much team Holland at this point…

[ChumpDumper]

Most of the offensive highlights I've seen are in transition and opportunistic drives which is really just fine while he tries to work on his outside shot. His athleticism really shines in actual game situations at his NBA position so I'm not worried about any particular combine numbers. I'm biased towards this kind of player and I hope the Spurs think he's coachable. Just seeing that many Danny Green rundown transition blocks from a 15 game season is exciting.

[benefactor]

Okay you're starting to sell me....

[objective]

Fwiw, not that it's worth anything at all, but Some of the enthusiast amateur groups like the No Ceilings crew were quite down on Holland, collectively having him outside the top 10 if I heard things right during the post lottery mock draft podcast

[ChumpDumper]

Fwiw, not that it's worth anything at all, but Some of the enthusiast amateur groups like the No Ceilings crew were quite down on Holland, collectively having him outside the top 10 if I heard things right during the post lottery mock draft podcast

I mean I can't doubt anyone's having any opinion on any player this year. Is the guy gonna be good or suck? Yes. No. I don't know. It's Schrödinger's draft.

[DPG21920]

Most of the offensive highlights I've seen are in transition and opportunistic drives which is really just fine while he tries to work on his outside shot. His athleticism really shines in actual game situations at his NBA position so I'm not worried about any particular combine numbers. I'm biased towards this kind of player and I hope the Spurs think he's coachable. Just seeing that many Danny Green rundown transition blocks from a 15 game season is exciting.

Ya - theres a lot to it and the more I watched the more I liked. Hollingers article really started to sell me as well and put things in a good perspective IMO

[DPG21920]

1790177769160339711


Ron Holland? Yes, Ron Holland. Let’s start with the negatives first:

I think Holland is only going to measure 6-6 at the NBA Draft Combine, he shot a ghastly 24 percent from 3 in the G League, and his avert-your-eyes start to the G League season — including an 11-turnover game — had scouts shuddering.

Now, for the good news: He came into the year as the top-rated player on most boards, had better numbers with G League Ignite than any other one-and-done in its history … and somehow went careening down draft boards anyway, even in a draft year where absolutely nobody came in and claimed the top spot for themselves.

I don’t really get it. The biggest complaint with Holland is his lack of efficiency, but that was baked in the second Ignite built this roster. Virtually any teenager put in a situation where he has to carry a 30 percent usage rate is going to struggle; we saw it with LaMelo Ball in Australia and Scoot Henderson in Portland. Holland was no different, especially since he’s not a natural point guard in the first place. Playing on a team with no real creator, he often had to call his own number against loaded-up defenses.

Did he get tunnel vision once he put it on the floor? Absolutely. Was it so tragic to rule him out versus other non-overwhelming options? I don’t think so, especially as the season wore on.

Holland's numbers stack up well against Jalen Green’s with Ignite and are superior to every other Ignite perimeter player who has come through. That happened despite Holland missing the final two months of the season, when his increasing experience would have given him an edge and when the rest of the G League is at its most depleted due to call-ups and fewer assignment players.

In his Ignite season, Green posted a 15.4 PER with 61.3 percent true shooting; Holland had a 15.8 PER on 56.5 percent. The shooting numbers were bad, but Green played on a more coherent team and thus also was only asked to carry a 23 percent usage rate at this level, not Holland’s 28 percent. Also, keep in mind that Holland’s free-throw rate was pretty massive for a perimeter player; four free-throw attempts per game may not seem like much until you remember the G League shoots one attempt that counts for two points. Only 10 players in the whole G League matched his rate. And even with Holland’s brutal early turnover issues, his assist and turnover rates were essentially the same as Green’s age-18 season.

Green would be the No. 1 pick in this draft; I think Holland should be too.

The other reason to like Holland is his defense. His 3.5 percent steal rate stands out; some iffy gambles spiked the total, but there is real talent (and fire) on this end. Overall, his rates of rebounds, steals and blocks compare favorably to former Ignite lottery pick Dyson Daniels, for instance, who has now become an awesome defender at the NBA level. I think Holland has similar pathways to being elite at this end.

On top of that, there’s the good ol’ eye test. I’ve seen Holland shoot a ton, both before games and during them, having watched him in person several times over the last year. He has a low push shot that needs some work, but he’s also not a 24 percent 3-point shooter. His 72.8 percent mark from the line is a more accurate tell on where he stands as a shooter — he isn't Stephen Curry, but his shot isn’t broken either. Just reaching the point where he makes one in three would make him a potent two-way wing, and that feels attainable.

Lastly, consider Holland’s age. With a July 2005 birthdate, he’s nearly a full year younger than several other players vying for places with him in the high lottery: He's six months younger than Rob Dillingham, nine months younger than Stephon Castle or Matas Buzelis and more than a year younger than Donovan Clingan and Reed Sheppard. Teams get caught on class year, but birth year is what matters.

It's not a slam dunk, and you could make a credible case for several players, but Holland has been the top player on my board since the 2023 Hoop Summit. He still has the best overall résumé.

[John B]

Sold

[objective]

I mean I can't doubt anyone's having any opinion on any player this year. Is the guy gonna be good or suck? Yes. No. I don't know. It's Schrödinger's draft.

True. I wasn't posting merely as someone's difference of opinion, but in the context that some posters don't think there's a chance he slides even to 8. I was just offering something that could temper that specific pessimism.

And though they are of the amateur enthusiast set, I think 5 different enthusiast podcasters/video guys/writers that I followed or listened to their podcasts have been hired into NBA scouting departments the last few years. Coach Spins with the 76ers, the Hardwood Homies college kid (think it was the clippers), Matt Pennie (don't remember) and a couple of the Stepien alums. (Phoenix and Rockets???)

[Dverde]

I can’t see the Spurs drafting him unless they trade down from#8 and he’s still available.

[spursparker9]

2nd coming of Nephew?

[NASpurs]

You son of a bitch, I'm in!

(Not really)

[spurraider21]

ive been saying for a bit that he's my #2 wing after Risacher. the non-shooting will be an issue early in his career, but wemby becoming more accurate from 3, Collins rebounding some, and our guard rotation hopefully including one of Dillingham/Sheppard could help counteract it. amen thompson worked out quite well playing as a forward without an outside shot when being surrounded by shooters like Jabari Smith at center after Sengun went down.

but his form doesnt look remotely as broken as the thompson twins, and he also jumped straight from the HS to NBA 3pt line

and as has been discussed in the other draft threads, picks 5-7 seem much more likely to be wing selections than point guards, so taking Holland at 4 has merit if we want to come away with a PG afterwards as well. i also wouldnt be opposed to giving up the #35 pick and a couple of other SRPs to move up a little from 8 to secure the PG we want

#35 feels unlikely to be a 2-way, and we dont want another rookie on the active roster

[scott]

I pretty much team Holland at this point…

I'm with you. He is a solid #2 on my board behind Buzelis. Dillingham, Sheppard and Castle are right behind them (in that order) to close out my Tier I.

[Raven]

has the 3rd best chance to be a bust out of the lottery players in my book.

[spurraider21]

has the 3rd best chance to be a bust out of the lottery players in my book.
sure but if you also asked me which player in this draft has the best chance to be a finals mvp in the next 8 years, Holland would probably be near the top of that list

[Raven]

sure but if you also asked me which player in this draft has the best chance to be a finals mvp in the next 8 years, Holland would probably be near the top of that list

probably true.

[pad300]

"Eye popping Athleticism"

PLAYER, POS, LANE AGILITY TIME, SHUTTLE RUN, THREE QUARTER SPRINT, STANDING VERTICAL LEAP, MAX VERTICAL LEAP

Matas Buzelis SF 10.73 2.90 3.09 31.0 38.0
Ron Holland II SF 11.10 2.91 3.10 30.0 38.0
Dalton Knecht SF 10.56 2.79 3.07 31.0 39.0

Not sure I see any kind of eye popping athletic edge there...

[Obstructed_View]

"Eye popping Athleticism"

PLAYER, POS, LANE AGILITY TIME, SHUTTLE RUN, THREE QUARTER SPRINT, STANDING VERTICAL LEAP, MAX VERTICAL LEAP

Matas Buzelis SF 10.73 2.90 3.09 31.0 38.0
Ron Holland II SF 11.10 2.91 3.10 30.0 38.0
Dalton Knecht SF 10.56 2.79 3.07 31.0 39.0

Not sure I see any kind of eye popping athletic edge there...

That's because you skipped past the video of his dunks and blocks and ran to three lines of text.

[baseline bum]

There is chatter the Holland has questions about his character, and the Spurs usually steer clear of these players regardless of talent.

Considering two of their character guy pickups were wife beater Forbes and serial flasher Primo can't say I trust their character evaluation much.

[spurraider21]

Considering two of their character guy pickups were wife beater Forbes and serial flasher Primo can't say I trust their character evaluation much.
Don’t forget atheist manu

[rankingtear]

Fit is awful selfish player , tunnel vision , poor shooter and character red flags. That is like everything you don't want around Wemby. The guy is also probably going bald by 23. He is like a shit version of KJ who is a bad fit around Wemby.

[AusSpur]

Considering two of their character guy pickups were wife beater Forbes and serial flasher Primo can't say I trust their character evaluation much.

True that. I would just say that those character flaws only exposed themselves after they were drafted (pun intended).

Personally I'm on team draft Holland - but PATFO bang on about character as the number one criteria when drafting a player, and when I hear Holland had question marks (I don't know what they are) I thought it's now unlikely we take him.

[TD 21]

Fit is awful selfish player , tunnel vision , poor shooter and character red flags. That is like everything you don't want around Wemby. The guy is also probably going bald by 23. He is like a shit version of KJ who is a bad fit around Wemby.

Always a good reason to not draft someone.

[rankingtear]

Always a good reason to not draft someone.

Always. Tell me you like looking at Derrick's big ass forehead.

[Knoxxx]

Holland is just one of a few options at 8, nothing more. I think he mocks about 9, actually.

Sarr, Risacher, Clingan, Topic, Dilly, Castle, Sheppard, Buzelis. That’s 8. Holland is in the conversation with players such as Knecht and C Williams. Basically Holland is a 9-11 ranked player.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

"Eye popping Athleticism"

PLAYER, POS, LANE AGILITY TIME, SHUTTLE RUN, THREE QUARTER SPRINT, STANDING VERTICAL LEAP, MAX VERTICAL LEAP

Matas Buzelis SF 10.73 2.90 3.09 31.0 38.0
Ron Holland II SF 11.10 2.91 3.10 30.0 38.0
Dalton Knecht SF 10.56 2.79 3.07 31.0 39.0

Not sure I see any kind of eye popping athletic edge there...

Matas Buzelis and Dalton Knecht are also really good athletes. I wouldn't be upset if the Spurs ended up with Buzelis, whereas I am a little less high on Knecht because he doesnt seem to have much of a commitment on the defensive end.

[heyheymymy]

Holland said "it boils my blood" that ppl say this is a weak draft like damn killer what a bizarre answer

and didn't he say some other weird reply like "Nothing has changed with me. I'm still the same competitor who has won almost everything."

[heyheymymy]

I guess it is annoying when people parrot weak draft narratives

It's not top heavy but it is a pretty damn exciting draft imo

[SpursBills]

Holland said "it boils my blood" that ppl say this is a weak draft like damn killer what a bizarre answer

and didn't he say some other weird reply like "Nothing has changed with me. I'm still the same competitor who has won almost everything."

Regarding the second reply, he's not wrong. Before he joined Ignite and his team lost pretty much every game in humiliating fashion, he did win basically wherever he went. He took his hometown public high school to like 3 or 4 Texas state championships and turned them into a national powerhouse. Then he excelled playing FIBA U16 and U17 teams that won a bunch. Then he was easily the best player at the Nike Hoops Summit. His reply is probably coached to address the expected questions about Ignite losing so much, but it does have truth to it.

[heyheymymy]

Regarding the second reply, he's not wrong. Before he joined Ignite and his team lost pretty much every game in humiliating fashion, he did win basically wherever he went. He took his hometown public high school to like 3 or 4 Texas state championships and turned them into a national powerhouse. Then he excelled playing FIBA U16 and U17 teams that won a bunch. Then he was easily the best player at the Nike Hoops Summit. His reply is probably coached to address the expected questions about Ignite losing so much, but it does have truth to it.

good context thanks you are right with that perspective it doesn't seem like such a red flag response

[baseline bum]

I guess it is annoying when people parrot weak draft narratives

It's not top heavy but it is a pretty damn exciting draft imo

I don't think it's parroting a narrative when NBA GMs are saying it.

[heyheymymy]

Def not busting at the seams or anything but I feel like it's more of a weak tier 1 and not a weak overall draft semantics granted and obvs the top selections are the most important admittedly.

I bet NBA GMs want tier one players cause they fill seats and take less time to be hype worthy so that's a focus

[Obstructed_View]

I guess it is annoying when people parrot weak draft narratives

It's not top heavy but it is a pretty damn exciting draft imo

Agree. The Spurs stand an excellent chance of bagging two players who will contribute. Gotta like that.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Agree. The Spurs stand an excellent chance of bagging two players who will contribute. Gotta like that.

That's really where I'm at. If the Spurs come away from this draft with two plus starters on a championship team, I'm really pleased with that outcome. Victor is going to be a monster on offense, what he needs is a team built around him that can amount to a top caliber defense type team, and a few outlets for secondary scoring.

[Obstructed_View]

That's really where I'm at. If the Spurs come away from this draft with two plus starters on a championship team, I'm really pleased with that outcome. Victor is going to be a monster on offense, what he needs is a team built around him that can amount to a top caliber defense type team, and a few outlets for secondary scoring.
Now here is where I differ: If the top 8 players are that good, them this isn't a weak draft.

[Raven]

Holland said "it boils my blood" that ppl say this is a weak draft like damn killer what a bizarre answer

and didn't he say some other weird reply like "Nothing has changed with me. I'm still the same competitor who has won almost everything."
if that is the case, why doesn't he go back to college and try again next year when he's clearly bound to get drafted higher?

[pad300]

if that is the case, why doesn't he go back to college and try again next year when he's clearly bound to get drafted higher?

I could be wrong about the rules, but Holland played g-league this year (and they have decided no Ignite youth team next year, so he can't go back there). As such, he's taken pro money, and thus can't play NCAA. So either he goes NBA or goes overseas.

[ChumpDumper]

if that is the case, why doesn't he go back to college and try again next year when he's clearly bound to get drafted higher?

Because he never went to college and is a projected lottery pick.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Now here is where I differ: If the top 8 players are that good, them this isn't a weak draft.

I dont really think it's a super weak draft. I think it's a harder draft to evaluate in the lottery than most other recent drafts, but I think there are a lot of players in this year's draft that should be good NBA players.

[Obstructed_View]

I dont really think it's a super weak draft. I think it's a harder draft to evaluate in the lottery than most other recent drafts, but I think there are a lot of players in this year's draft that should be good NBA players.
You can usually predict a strong draft when there is surefire talent at the top, but any other draft you have to see how it fleshes out. A big factor is also where players go. I remember when Chauncey Billups looked like a bad pick for Boston.

[Obstructed_View]

if that is the case, why doesn't he go back to college and try again next year when he's clearly bound to get drafted higher?
Because everyone says next years draft is amazing. He wouldn't improve enough to move up.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

You can usually predict a strong draft when there is surefire talent at the top, but any other draft you have to see how it fleshes out. A big factor is also where players go. I remember when Chauncey Billups looked like a bad pick for Boston.

I've also noticed that even in years when everyone says "this is a really strong draft class" the closer you get to draft day, most commentators begin to call it a weak draft. There have only been a couple of truly bad drafts, and I dont think this is one of those years.

[HankChinaski]

It isn't a weak draft class per say. There isn't a 3 for sure lottery talent at the top that stand out as must have. But the talent sampling is pretty decent into the mid to late 1st round.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I drank the Koolaid on Holland and Dillingham and would be thrilled if that ended up being our two picks. That said, I doubt Holland is still on the board at 8. Portland will fvck us on draft day at every opportunity and so I’d bet they draft him before we can. I think it’s possible to land both picking Holland with the #4 pick but who knows.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I am on the Holland bandwagon just going back and watching his film I OK with his bigger flaws now then I was initially. The main thing is that he played pretty much the PF all throughout High School so go from that position to being forced to play Point Guard, or the point of attack player. The thing I like is no matter how bad he is on offense you will always see him throws his body around on the defensive side. As many people have stated he will be a great defender on the permiter who you can tell guard the teams best offensive guard

I think the 3 best defensive guards would be Castle, Holland, and Ryan Dunn.

[mystargtr34]

I drank the Koolaid on Holland and Dillingham and would be thrilled if that ended up being our two picks. That said, I doubt Holland is still on the board at 8. Portland will fvck us on draft day at every opportunity and so I’d bet they draft him before we can. I think it’s possible to land both picking Holland with the #4 pick but who knows.

No chance Holland falls past Portland at 7, that’s his floor I think. I also think Charlotte may take him at 6 but Portland is my bet. They need a big wing desperately.

[Dverde]

Rumors of Holland having bad workouts and not being over himself in the G League.

https://x.com/tyler_rucker/status/1799848609544011778?s=46

[Mr. Body]

Increasing rumbles that Holland either has character stufg or other related things that are raising questions.

[exstatic]

No chance Holland falls past Portland at 7, that’s his floor I think. I also think Charlotte may take him at 6 but Portland is my bet. They need a big wing desperately.

That would be such a Portland pick. :rollin.

[J_Paco]

The attitude issues are worrisome as well as the total lack of 3-point shooting, but I think Ron has the biggest 'boom-or-bust' potential/highest ceiling in this class (still).

I think if he falls out of the top 3, then you grab him at 4 (those 'reports' might be GM's leaking nonsense so he can fall to them), and a PG (whoever is still available) at 8.

You can find outside shooting with the second round pick(s) - upperclassmen that are good shooters often fall to the round, anyway - or through free-agency.

If Ron's shooting and half-court game comes along, then we'll easily have a potent 1-2-3 punch with Wemby-Vassell-Holland, IMO.

Also, it sounds like Holland is just 'lazy' like McGrady was. Some just are just so naturally gifted they can 'slack off' and still outperform guys giving their all.

He's either a Josh Jackson (out of the league after 4 or 5 years) or he's a Jaylen Brown - type. That is a scary floor, but the Spurs have 'blown' picks on boom-or-bust types before and his ceiling is too high compared to everyone else in this class.

[Mr. Body]

When I learned that Holland's numbers were almost the same as Kuminga's at Ignite, I've thought of them in similar ways. Kuminga also has a reputation of being high on his own farts. Can't say whether they're similar in any regard -- but the AAU god in love with himself thing seems to be in play.

[DesignatedT]

0% chance the Spurs take this guy.

[objective]

Weird to see handwringing over his barely negative assist to turnover ratio as a wing, which is not nearly as bad as Kuminga's was and is more in line with guys like Brandon Ingram and Jabari Smith

Holland 2.9 1st to 3.2 tov

Kuminga 2.5a to 4.3t

[SpursFan86]

I’ve still yet to see any credible proof that Holland has some terrible attitude. From what I’ve seen, there are 2 reports:

1) Evan Sidery reported he might fall out of the lottery —> IIRC he didn’t mention why, and this can easily be a smokescreen/planted story

2) Some guy from No Ceilings made a vague tweet alluding to off the court issues. When people then pressed him asking for more info, he seemed to back pedal and say that he hasn’t heard anything about his character but there may be work ethic issues

At this point I’m inclined to think him falling out of the lotto is BS, or at the least, unlikely. I don’t think the Spurs need to take him at 4 but if he’s still there at #8 then he should absolutely be at the forefront of the conversation.

[objective]

Weird to see handwringing over his barely negative assist to turnover ratio as a wing, which is not nearly as bad as Kuminga's was and is more in line with guys like Brandon Ingram and Jabari Smith

Holland 2.9 1st to 3.2 tov

Kuminga 2.5a to 4.3t

Just to further make the point, but when he was a freshman, Kawhi shot 20% from 3 with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.9 to 2.3.
Not saying that he'll be Kawhi, but I can see the appeal

[DPG21920]

Reed + Ron 2024

[Knoxxx]

Champagnie > Holland

[R. DeMurre]

G League Ignite was 9-23 last year with Scoot Henderson and Leonard Miller leading the way, and 2-32 this year with lottery picks Ron Holland and Matas Buzelis... Hard to believe this is better for development than going to Connecticut or Gonzaga, and playing meaningful games.

[Chinook]

Rumors of Holland having bad workouts and not being over himself in the G League.

https://x.com/tyler_rucker/status/1799848609544011778?s=46

Am I just out of the loop on Tyler Rucker? I don't get why there are two threads putting a lot of weight on this tweet. In reality, no one's "slipping out of the lottery". Where the media mocks a player has no effect on where they actually get picked. If Holland gets selected after the lottery, that's likely to be because were never all that high on him or haven't been for months considering his injury. If he does go in the lottery, clearly he didn't "slip". At best this feels like the media trying to insert itself into the product rather than just covering it. At worst, it's just a clout-chaser making a bold claim to gain credibility. The reality is, no front office cares where the mocks had Holland, Collier, James, Topic or anyone else. At most, they'd hope to use it as evidence for where other teams are picking guys to help build their strategy.

[exstatic]

G League Ignite was 9-23 last year with Scoot Henderson and Leonard Miller leading the way, and 2-32 this year with lottery picks Ron Holland and Matas Buzelis... Hard to believe this is better for development than going to Connecticut or Gonzaga, and playing meaningful games.

You did hear that the NBA disbanded the Ignite, right? The NIL money did them in. Kids can get paid to go to school now, not to just waste a year watching the clock until they are of draft age.

[rascal]

Holland will be great in Portland with the other athletes on that team.