Typical Spurs fashion..

[aissagholi7981]

I use to think we should make a big trade, like most of us, but we will not, and should not.

It's very difficult to win a ring, let alone go back to back. Denver we all thought would 3-peat and they're already done and will most likely make some small moves in the offseason to re-up for 2025. At the end of the day, as we all know, length and defense are the two factors if you want to win a ring. That being said, there just is no chance we don't take a big guard or two. Either Topic or Castle at 4 is going to be the pick. If Holland is available at 8, that is going to be the pick

We should make this the thread of what we think the starting 5 will be going into the season, winner gets a cookie. HA.

Topic/Castle/Trae
Vassell/Castle/Wesley
Holland (Use a pick to trade in)/Johnson/Sedi
Sochan/Barlow/Mamu
Wemby/Collins

Plently of possible trade assets between picks and players but that does not look bad. Plenty of length and athleticism, good mix of Eurp/American players. Looks good to me, maybe I'm just anxious. HA.

[Mr. Body]

Denver has two significant problems:

- They have expensive players, with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and especially Michael Porter Jr. probably each costing more than their actual value. Jokic makes a lot, but is worth it.

- They've traded all the FRPs they can for the next good number of years. They only have swaps left, and have traded some SRPs.

They're in pretty bad shape, since none of those expensive players are likely to draw a lot of interest.

[aissagholi7981]

Denver has two significant problems:

- They have expensive players, with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and especially Michael Porter Jr. probably each costing more than their actual value. Jokic makes a lot, but is worth it.

- They've traded all the FRPs they can for the next good number of years. They only have swaps left, and have traded some SRPs.

They're in pretty bad shape, since none of those expensive players are likely to draw a lot of interest.

Plus for a young (under 30) player, Murray does NOT look like a second option for the next 3 years (too injury prone). I would be surprised if Denver won 2 more, max one more ring by the time Joker is 33 and takes a large decline (that weight is not going to be easy even though he is extremely smart and efficient)

[Dex]

Denver has two significant problems:

- They have expensive players, with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and especially Michael Porter Jr. probably each costing more than their actual value. Jokic makes a lot, but is worth it.

- They've traded all the FRPs they can for the next good number of years. They only have swaps left, and have traded some SRPs.

They're in pretty bad shape, since none of those expensive players are likely to draw a lot of interest.

Considering how Murray performed in these playoffs, I would consider him an albatross unless he proves otherwise. Dude was lucky he hit two buzzer beaters, because otherwise he was pathetic not to mention throwing shit at the refs which should have caught him a suspension.

[spurraider21]

Denver will be fine tbh. losing in 7 to a team like the Wolves isnt cause to overthink things.

murray was hurt... he's also still 27, so its not like he's experiencing athletic decline or anything

last year, their bench rotation included Bruce Brown, Jeff Green, and Christian Braun. it was pretty firmly an 8 man rotation. in last year's finals, other than those 8 people, nobody else played in more than 3 minutes for the entire series.

this year, while Braun remained, they never really nailed the rotation down. after Braun, they had Justin Holiday, Reggie Jackson... but nobody that could come in and play as a big the way Jeff Green did. peyton watson, julian strawther also got some minutes here and there, but they never had the consistent rotation they did last year. they pick #28 this year

[OldMan88]

Expensive players has been a problem for any team going for multiple championships. Everyone on the team thinks they deserve a “max” contract, yet even the best teams rarely have more than one player truly deserving such a contract.

[OldMan88]

:downspin:

[aissagholi7981]

Side note, since this is as good as the Mavs will ever be, IF they lose to the Wolves, does Luka ask out....

[scott]

Typical Spurs fashion:

https://andscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/usatsi_7311171.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/61/a8/1261a8badfb8654ab74cfc19c8ecced1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/81/c7/6e81c78cfb60bdf4b5950ebad346ede9.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_400/v1/media/gmg/ZJPHDSRTFFC7FLWAM7B6XTOSOU.jpg

[CorrectCrusader]

Typical Spurs fashion:

https://andscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/usatsi_7311171.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/61/a8/1261a8badfb8654ab74cfc19c8ecced1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/81/c7/6e81c78cfb60bdf4b5950ebad346ede9.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_400/v1/media/gmg/ZJPHDSRTFFC7FLWAM7B6XTOSOU.jpg


That last guy looks like a supreme gentlemen, I wonder what he's doing today??

[KobesAchilles]

Typical Spurstalk not knowing anything about other teams in the NBA. Denver will be fine going forward. Them and OKC are the two teams that are best set-up for the next 3 years. Each of their core players are set going forward and they have zero cap issue.

Minny is the contending team in trouble. Edwards played out of his mind the whole series. Can he repeat that? Probably not. KAT isn't a reliable second option and Gobert is highly overpaid. Plus they have zero point guard to speak of once Conley bounces and they can't afford their bench either. This team will be gutted next year.
Clippers are in trouble. Lakers are in trouble. Dallas better ring this year bc I see this as their absolute ceiling and they don't have a way to improve. Phoenix is in trouble. Pels are in trouble. And Golden St is done

[R. DeMurre]

Minnesota played great and deserves credit, but I do think there is some overanalysis going on with Denver. They could use more depth for sure, but most teams struggle when their #2 guy is injured, like Murray was for the first two games. Titles require at least a degree of luck with regards to injuries/availability, and the Nuggets didn't have it this year.

[Leetonidas]

Who thought Denver was threepeating? Because it definitely wasn't me :lol I think they had a good chance to ring again but i never thought it was a lock

[Obstructed_View]

What I think the Spurs' starting five should be and what I think it will be are two different things. I've been on the "draft for upside" train and I'm now starting to think that the Spurs should get two long athletic wings who can switch on pick and rolls seamlessly and get out and run with Victor. Put them at 2 and 3. No mismatch, no fighting through screens, lots of fast breaks.

[Joseph Kony]

The Spurs drafting and adding 3 rookies to their rotation will only slow the development. imo they should make a consolidation trade for a youngish star PG (Garland, Young) and draft two wings (Risacher, Castle, etc). would make a much more balanced and effective roster going forward

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs drafting and adding 3 rookies to their rotation will only slow the development. imo they should make a consolidation trade for a youngish star PG (Garland, Young) and draft two wings (Risacher, Castle, etc). would make a much more balanced and effective roster going forward
Drafting three rookies becomes a problem if they refuse to bring in any leadership at all. They should have money to throw at some veterans for sure. I wouldn't object to a trade for a vet, but I'm not warmed up to the idea of Young or Garland yet.

[RC_Drunkford]

it was pretty clear that it would be hard for Denver to repeat once they let Bruce Brown and Jeff Green go. A championship team that gets worse ain't really a favorite to three peat. I don't know who thought that.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs drafting and adding 3 rookies to their rotation will only slow the development. imo they should make a consolidation trade for a youngish star PG (Garland, Young) and draft two wings (Risacher, Castle, etc). would make a much more balanced and effective roster going forward
draft a PG with one of the top two picks, and have them play behind Monk/Tre to develop. branham/wesley shouldnt be owed scholarship minutes anymore.

draft 1 wing who can compete with shampenny to be in the rotation with keldon

second round picks are going to be banished to the gleague in all likelihood so they better be guys willing to play on 2-way deals. or use the 35 pick as part of a package to move up from 8 to 6 or 7 to grab a specific target

[GAustex]

That last guy looks like a supreme gentlemen, I wonder what he's doing today??
Popabitch wasted too many years of everyone playing this scrub

[Mr. Body]

Denver will be fine tbh. losing in 7 to a team like the Wolves isnt cause to overthink things.

murray was hurt... he's also still 27, so its not like he's experiencing athletic decline or anything

last year, their bench rotation included Bruce Brown, Jeff Green, and Christian Braun. it was pretty firmly an 8 man rotation. in last year's finals, other than those 8 people, nobody else played in more than 3 minutes for the entire series.

this year, while Braun remained, they never really nailed the rotation down. after Braun, they had Justin Holiday, Reggie Jackson... but nobody that could come in and play as a big the way Jeff Green did. peyton watson, julian strawther also got some minutes here and there, but they never had the consistent rotation they did last year. they pick #28 this year

Yes, they have poor depth. This is a function of spending so much on their starters. Coughing up a 20 point lead in a clenching game is partly a function of not having a bag to pull from. Their lack of draft assets will make it harder to replenish their bench, too.

Role-players are the key to championships. First class role-players; and then they get expensive, or old, and then it's hard to keep up. The Spurs post 2007 was having big problems getting good role-players.

[KobesAchilles]

Yes, they have poor depth. This is a function of spending so much on their starters. Coughing up a 20 point lead in a clenching game is partly a function of not having a bag to pull from. Their lack of draft assets will make it harder to replenish their bench, too.

Role-players are the key to championships. First class role-players; and then they get expensive, or old, and then it's hard to keep up. The Spurs post 2007 was having big problems getting good role-players.
Except you just described Minnesota next year. They are going to face way more problems than Denver. Denver is perfectly set up going forward compared to every other WC team save for OKC. And OKC is just too young to take that next step. If Presti actually invests in a solid vet bench then OKC will be the favorite going forward. But seeing as he never does that, I think Denver will be in the driver's seat next year

[Mr. Body]

Except you just described Minnesota next year. They are going to face way more problems than Denver. Denver is perfectly set up going forward compared to every other WC team save for OKC. And OKC is just too young to take that next step. If Presti actually invests in a solid vet bench then OKC will be the favorite going forward. But seeing as he never does that, I think Denver will be in the driver's seat next year

I agree about Minnesota. Edwards is prancing around waving to away crowds and acting cocky, but that team is going to run into a financial wall at about 120 mph.

Boston is going to crash, too.

I don't see how any team can keep it together with this CBA.

[TD 21]

This team is worse offensively than defensively, will always be above average at the latter with Wembanyama on the floor and yet after nearly a decade of continuing to lag behind the league in 3-point shooting and lacking a primary play maker, somehow people want to continue to stock this team with players who do neither, in an offense first league.

Spare me this notion of Castle being the Doncic, Gilgeous-Alexander and Edwards "stopper" (he probably doesn't have the strength to defend the bookends anyway) or the relaxing of the rules post trade deadline. Even if that continues, despite the hype, non centers have limited impact defensively, at least not enough of one to offset being offensive liabilities.

[poopbox]

I don't understand why anyone thought Denver would go back to back. You need overwhelming basketball talent to do that. Outside of Jokic the rest of their team is a regular ass team. Murray has never been an all nba player or even an all star

[Mr. Body]

This team is worse offensively than defensively, will always be above average at the latter with Wembanyama on the floor and yet after nearly a decade of continuing to lag behind the league in 3-point shooting and lacking a primary play maker, somehow people want to continue to stock this team with players who do neither, in an offense first league.

Spare me this notion of Castle being the Doncic, Gilgeous-Alexander and Edwards "stopper" (he probably doesn't have the strength to defend the bookends anyway) or the relaxing of the rules post trade deadline. Even if that continues, despite the hype, non centers have limited impact defensively, at least not enough of one to offset being offensive liabilities.

We have to get defenders somehow. I'm about done with getting torched by Jalen Brunson for 60 points. Castle was key in the tournament, helping keep Boo Buie to 2-15 shooting as primary defender, Terrence Shannon Jr to 2-12, etc.

Sochan would probably guard the bigger players like Doncic, Castle to give other looks and against guards like FTA.

Really, it comes down to this:

You can either draft a strong offensive player in this draft with suspect defense (Dillingham) or a strong defensive player with suspect offense (Castle), or a guy who may be too slow and undersized to be more than a role-player (Sheppard), or wilder swings at forwards with suspect overall skills (Matas, Holland, Williams).

If you can figure out which player is going to be excellent at both sides of the court, let me know. (No, it's not Risacher.)

[poopbox]

Denver has two significant problems:

- They have expensive players, with Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and especially Michael Porter Jr. probably each costing more than their actual value. Jokic makes a lot, but is worth it.

- They've traded all the FRPs they can for the next good number of years. They only have swaps left, and have traded some SRPs.

I mean this is what just about all championship level teams look like. None of the 4 teams left (Dallas, Wolves, Celtics, Pacers after the Siakam trade) control any of their picks other than a year or two for the next 5 or 6 years.

Spurstalk seems to think real life nba is like nba 2k where you can put together a championship team with guys on rookie deals. You can't. You want to trade for high end talent its going to cost you all your draft equity for a few years. You want to sign high end talent you are going to pay more than you want to for it, because if you dont the team in line behind you will. The spurs should hope to have these exact problems in 3 or 4 years because it should mean we are competing for titles. If it's 2027 and we still out here nickel and diming and hanging on to some hawks pick that will be 18th in the draft then we will be in some pretty serious trouble.

They're in pretty bad shape, since none of those expensive players are likely to draw a lot of interest.

[TD 21]

We have to get defenders somehow. I'm about done with getting torched by Jalen Brunson for 60 points. Castle was key in the tournament, helping keep Boo Buie to 2-15 shooting as primary defender, Terrence Shannon Jr to 2-12, etc.

Sochan would probably guard the bigger players like Doncic, Castle to give other looks and against guards like FTA.

Really, it comes down to this:

You can either draft a strong offensive player in this draft with suspect defense (Dillingham) or a strong defensive player with suspect offense (Castle), or a guy who may be too slow and undersized to be more than a role-player (Sheppard), or wilder swings at forwards with suspect overall skills (Matas, Holland, Williams).

If you can figure out which player is going to be excellent at both sides of the court, let me know. (No, it's not Risacher.)

The most talented offensive players, with their mpg/usage/shot profile, the spacing of today's game and the rules that cater to them (non bigs) are going to have those explosions no matter who the primary or POA defender is.

Castle and Sochan would be untenable together offensively, more than offsetting whatever they might provide defensively.

You don't draft for defense near at the top of a draft unless it's a center and even then, they better have an offensive skillset, real or theoretical (Sarr) beyond strict rim runner.

At least with the likes of Sheppard and Dillingham, they have a high probability of at least being sixth men unlike Castle who could easily end up on the fringe of or out of the league entirely.

[TimmyBuckets]

If they draft, I would want Topic and Risacher, but I don't think both would be available. My guess is they draft Dilingham/Topic/Risacher at 4 and Castle/Sheppard/Klingon/Buzelis/Cody Williams at 8, with the starting lineup potentially looking like one of these two:

Dilingham/Topic
Vassell
Buzelis/Cody Williams
Sochan
Wemby

OR

Castle/Sheppard
Vassell
Risacher
Sochan
Wemby

This if they go draft route, but I would want Garland or Trae though. Cade also would be great if possible.

[Mr. Body]

The most talented offensive players, with their mpg/usage/shot profile, the spacing of today's game and the rules that cater to them (non bigs) are going to have those explosions no matter who the primary or POA defender is.

Castle and Sochan would be untenable together offensively, more than offsetting whatever they might provide defensively.

You don't draft for defense near at the top of a draft unless it's a center and even then, they better have an offensive skillset, real or theoretical (Sarr) beyond strict rim runner.

At least with the likes of Sheppard and Dillingham, they have a high probability of at least being sixth men unlike Castle who could easily end up on the fringe of or out of the league entirely.

Good luck with the defense, then.

But this is why I want Castle and Dillingham both.

[TD 21]

Good luck with the defense, then.

But this is why I want Castle and Dillingham both.

It's easier to find. If you look at most of the top perimeter defenders, they range from mid 1st to undrafted.

This team desperately needs positive impact players and needs to stop outsmarting itself or believing in their own hype by continuing to draft a high bust rate archetype of guard who aren't primary creators and can't shoot and thinking they'll fix it because they're the mighty Spurs.

[rascal]

The most talented offensive players, with their mpg/usage/shot profile, the spacing of today's game and the rules that cater to them (non bigs) are going to have those explosions no matter who the primary or POA defender is.

Castle and Sochan would be untenable together offensively, more than offsetting whatever they might provide defensively.

You don't draft for defense near at the top of a draft unless it's a center and even then, they better have an offensive skillset, real or theoretical (Sarr) beyond strict rim runner.

At least with the likes of Sheppard and Dillingham, they have a high probability of at least being sixth men unlike Castle who could easily end up on the fringe of or out of the league entirely.

Dillingham is less of a sure thing.
Dillingham doesn't look like an allen Iverson(was a better ball handler and overall quicker) or Curry(Shoots the ball much better) type of offensive player.

[Mr. Body]

It's easier to find. If you look at most of the top perimeter defenders, they range from mid 1st to undrafted.

This team desperately needs positive impact players and needs to stop outsmarting itself or believing in their own hype by continuing to draft a high bust rate archetype of guard who aren't primary creators and can't shoot and thinking they'll fix it because they're the mighty Spurs.

Castle can be a primary creator; that's what he often did for UConn. The Spurs don't really need a primary creator anyway.

The reason why I pick Castle and Dillingham is that I think they both have very strong skill-sets, which keeps them above busting. At least in comparison to their peers. Again, and I don't know how often this has to be said, you have to pick players who are in this draft. These are your only selections.

So, yeah, if I get two picks, instead of playing make-believe about some 'archetype' that can be found later in some make-believe draft, I'm going for a player with multiple skills right now. My other options are an expensive Julian Champagnie who I can also find any other time (Risacher) who actually has no other skills, or one of these wings who is bad at almost everything.

Unless you want to forfeit the picks, you have to use them, and these are my choices. Frankly I'm a bit astonished at these "Defense doesn't matter" takes.

[TD 21]

Dillingham is less of a sure thing.
Dillingham doesn't look like an allen Iverson(was a better ball handler and overall quicker) or Curry(Shoots the ball much better) type of offensive player.

He's a good bet to at least be an explosive scorer off the bench on solid efficiency for a long time.



Castle can be a primary creator; that's what he often did for UConn. The Spurs don't really need a primary creator anyway.

The reason why I pick Castle and Dillingham is that I think they both have very strong skill-sets, which keeps them above busting. At least in comparison to their peers. Again, and I don't know how often this has to be said, you have to pick players who are in this draft. These are your only selections.

So, yeah, if I get two picks, instead of playing make-believe about some 'archetype' that can be found later in some make-believe draft, I'm going for a player with multiple skills right now. My other options are an expensive Julian Champagnie who I can also find any other time (Risacher) who actually has no other skills, or one of these wings who is bad at almost everything.

Unless you want to forfeit the picks, you have to use them, and these are my choices. Frankly I'm a bit astonished at these "Defense doesn't matter" takes.

Newton was and not in the NBA, Castle can't.

I don't know how often this has to be said, but his archetype has a high bust rate and there's a few players who are good bets to have long as at least 6th men.

Champagnie is a minus defender. Risacher projects as a plus one, with size and a good enough 3 point shooter for the defense to respect. He doesn't need to impress miserable old men with his "bag" to have value.

I didn't say defense didn't matter, I said offense matters more, defense should only be prioritized near the top of a draft if it's a center and that most of the top defensive perimeter players were mid 1st to undrafted.

[KobesAchilles]

In a dream scenario, I believe we get both Risacher and Castle. Even if he's not a go to primary scorer, does that really matter? We already have one in Wemby and we have a wannabe in Vassell. A big wing player that can shoot and play defense and rebound is all we need at this point. If Risacher turns into MPJ but with a brain then that's a win for the 4th pick.

Castle probably wouldn't be there for us at 8 but who knows. Man I wish Topic didn't get injured so the Wiz could waste a pick on him. But if he is there somehow at 8 and his I won't play for any team that has a starting PG fit works then you take him and don't look back. He will have a lot to learn in the NBA but a bigger player (for his position) who loves to play defense and knows that game will help this team alot.

I'd also be ok with both Castle and Dilly as I believe we should trade Vassell (as part of a package to bring in a star) and this makes it easier to do so.