Reed Sheppard - 2024 NBA Draft Prospect

[Obstructed_View]

Reading over what everyone here thinks and wants, I'm going to laugh so hard when the Spurs select Salaun with the 4th pick.

Unless the Spurs decide to reach for another Josh Primo, most of us will be happy with anyone who is useful to the team.

[SpursBills]

The challenge with Reed at 4 is not a high ceiling. He's a statistical darling and I'm not against him at 4, but very curious how his intangibles carry over. If not, could be too close to a Jared McCain.

Interestingly, I'm much higher on McCain than consensus as well. The only question is whether / how much of his playmaking was masked playing next to Proctor and Roach since he was the only off-ball player that Duke had. Very similar numbers to CJ McCollum as a playmaker at the same age and for me that's his 70th percentile comp. He's checks quite a few boxes:

1. Jumper that's just as good as Sheppard - McCain took more difficult shots at a higher volume, shoots close to 90% from the FT, and his 3PT% was still well above 40

2. Stronger than most guards - his half court rim percentages were excellent among guard prospects - better than Sheppard, Dillingham, and Castle. Also he's built like a brick wall, that strength should hold up in the playoffs where he's getting bumped off his spots more and calls come less frequently

3. Above average guard rebounder - OREB% was actually very similar to Devin Carter; total rebounds/100 eclipse Sheppard, Dillingham, Collier, Cody Williams (lol)

4. Competitive as hell and raises his performance for big games - the only guard prospect that noticeably improved against top 50 and top 100 competition - FTR went up, EFG% went up, AST% went up, rim finishing went up, BPM went way up. Went out with a bang in the final 4 with 32/6 against NC State. Contrast that with Castle whose offensive numbers completely crater against top 100 and top 50 competition

I have him around 6 on my big board, very close to Devin Carter. I'm basically very low on all the wings this year and high on the combo guards - 3/4 of whom (Castle, Sheppard, McCain) have their playmaking masked playing behind or with at least one other lead guard. I'd have absolutely no problem taking McCain at 8 if the Spurs ended up missing out on Sheppard and instead took Castle at 4.

[Vienna]

Interestingly, I'm much higher on McCain than consensus as well. The only question is whether / how much of his playmaking was masked playing next to Proctor and Roach since he was the only off-ball player that Duke had. Very similar numbers to CJ McCollum as a playmaker at the same age and for me that's his 70th percentile comp. He's checks quite a few boxes:

1. Jumper that's just as good as Sheppard - McCain took more difficult shots at a higher volume, shoots close to 90% from the FT, and his 3PT% was still well above 40

2. Stronger than most guards - his half court rim percentages were excellent among guard prospects - better than Sheppard, Dillingham, and Castle. Also he's built like a brick wall, that strength should hold up in the playoffs where he's getting bumped off his spots more and calls come less frequently

3. Above average guard rebounder - OREB% was actually very similar to Devin Carter; total rebounds/100 eclipse Sheppard, Dillingham, Collier, Cody Williams (lol)

4. Competitive as hell and raises his performance for big games - the only guard prospect that noticeably improved against top 50 and top 100 competition - FTR went up, EFG% went up, AST% went up, rim finishing went up, BPM went way up. Went out with a bang in the final 4 with 32/6 against NC State. Contrast that with Castle whose offensive numbers completely crater against top 100 and top 50 competition

I have him around 6 on my big board, very close to Devin Carter. I'm basically very low on all the wings this year and high on the combo guards - 3/4 of whom (Castle, Sheppard, McCain) have their playmaking masked playing behind or with at least one other lead guard. I'd have absolutely no problem taking McCain at 8 if the Spurs ended up missing out on Sheppard and instead took Castle at 4.

as declared on several occasions, I'm also a member of the McCain Club. yes, the combine was a bit disappointing regarding height (I was hoping for like 6'3" and 6'8" wingspan), but didn't change my general view.
so, if the Spurs are in position to choose between him and Sheppard at pick #8, I would pick McCain.
just to add something to your points (to your point 1): tough shots. this is confirmed statistically. I don' remember who brought it up, I think it was Stayman on the locked on podcast, McCain's shooting shows a crazy anomaly as his percentage on guarded 3s was something like 44% and was much higher than unguarded 3s (this was like 40%). almost as if this kids needs a hand in his face to bring the best out of his shooting. he also made such shots from 5 feet behind the line.
so, if there was something like a tough shot statistic, I'm pretty sure he would be on top. and that's something that for sure would translate to the NBA.

[CGD]

Steve Kerr shot .573 from deep in his senior year at Arizona.

Wow, wild to think Steve Kerr was the 50th pick in the 1988 draft. He’s come a long way.

[CGD]

I’m warming to Reed with the 8th pick. I wouldn’t waste 4 on him though. Take the best wing at 4 and best PG at 8.

[onechance87]

I’m warming to Reed with the 8th pick. I wouldn’t waste 4 on him though. Take the best wing at 4 and best PG at 8.

and who is the best wing and pg

[mo7888]

and who is the best wing and pg

Best wings are Buzelis and Risacher

Best PG's are Sheppard and Castle

[CGD]

and who is the best wing and pg

My views on Castle at 4 are known. If Castle isn’t there at 4, there is a good chance ZR falls to 4. Spurs will take him there in an heartbeat. If both Castle and ZR are gone I’m looking hard at Buz (assuming somehow Sarr didn’t drop).

At 8 there will be a lot of PG options who will be fine. There won’t be much of a talent separation honestly.

[dbestpro]

Sheppard or Castle will be at 4. I prefer Sheppard. I also would like to see Knecht at 8. The offensive versatility would be amazing. They could bring back the beautiful game.

[BatManu20]

Sheppard to Houston almost seems to be getting telegraphed at this point. Makes me think it's not gonna happen tbh. Still think they're gonna try and move that pick for a win-now player.

Like I said tbh. I think this is legit. Clingan or a trade at 3 for the Rockets.

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[BatManu20]

Question then becomes do PATFO value Sheppard over Castle. Cause Reed definitely ain’t falling to #8.

[SpursFan86]

Question then becomes do PATFO value Sheppard over Castle. Cause Reed definitely ain’t falling to #8.

I think it’d be a huge mistake to not go Sheppard at 4 in that scenario.

Get our shooter, and then at 8 take whoever they like most out of Castle/Buzelis/Holland/Williams/Knecht/Salaun. Castle would be the dream obviously but at least 3 of those guys are pretty much guaranteed to be there.

[DPG21920]

Reed is who I want more than anyone in this draft

[BatManu20]

Castle’s my guy in this draft, but I agree in this hypothetical scenario, it’d be hard to pass on Reed. Will be an interesting situation if it comes to fruition tbh.

[SpursFan86]

The only way I think it makes any sense to go with Castle at 4 is if you’re also very high on Dillingham. Liking Castle + Dillingham more than, say, Sheppard + Williams is fine. But if we take a non-shooter at 4 and then another non-shooter at 8 it’ll be frustrating.

I guess Castle + Knecht is an option but Knecht is quite a bit less exciting than Dillingham.

[DPG21920]

Castle’s my guy in this draft, but I agree in this hypothetical scenario, it’d be hard to pass on Reed. Will be an interesting situation if it comes to fruition tbh.

Good news is if broke this way SA could get both Reed and Castle (either with Castle falling to 8 or by trading up using 8 + something with DET or CHA)

[Mr. Body]

The only way I think it makes any sense to go with Castle at 4 is if you’re also very high on Dillingham. Liking Castle + Dillingham more than, say, Sheppard + Williams is fine. But if we take a non-shooter at 4 and then another non-shooter at 8 it’ll be frustrating.

I guess Castle + Knecht is an option but Knecht is quite a bit less exciting than Dillingham.

Just get the best player available, which is Castle, a brilliant fit, and figure out the next step from there. If it's Carter, then that's totally great with me. You get two hard-ass players who will bust people's chops. Start truly regaining the shut-em-down Spurs culture. Better than taking sickly leper Cody Williams or otherwise.

[mo7888]

Good news is if broke this way SA could get both Reed and Castle (either with Castle falling to 8 or by trading up using 8 + something with DET or CHA)

Sheppard + Castle might very well be the best case scenario. I'd love that..

[TD 21]

I'd select Sheppard over Castle without thinking twice, but my sense is the only player the Spurs would select over Castle is Risacher (and obviously it's highly unlikely he's available at 4).

[SpursFan86]

I'd select Sheppard over Castle without thinking twice, but my sense is the only player the Spurs would select over Castle is Risacher (and obviously it's highly unlikely he's available at 4).

I’m not so sure it’s highly unlikely at this point. I mean it’s less than 50% but 1/2/3 going Clingan/Sarr/Sheppard isn’t a major long shot IMO.

[rascal]

Good news is if broke this way SA could get both Reed and Castle (either with Castle falling to 8 or by trading up using 8 + something with DET or CHA)

You aren't getting Castle at 8.

[DPG21920]

You aren't getting Castle at 8.

Well then you trade up if you need to.

[DPG21920]

Sucks because im 99% sure Reed is going in the top 3 and it will probably be HOU if they don’t trade that pick. I think Reed is probably the best player in this draft for Spurs so it really annoys me that HOU is likely going to get him and hes a great fit there

[rascal]

Sucks because im 99% sure Reed is going in the top 3 and it will probably be HOU if they don’t trade that pick. I think Reed is probably the best player in this draft for Spurs so it really annoys me that HOU is likely going to get him and hes a great fit there

Don't worry so much. Reed is going to be nothing more than a player who comes off the bench with a limited role.

[BatManu20]

This guy is super high on Reed fwiw. Same guy who called Jokic becoming a star player during his Rookie season. Just sayin’.

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[SpursFan86]

I truly think people are just totally overthinking it with Sheppard. It’s even more puzzling considering this team’s needs…he just so perfectly fits what we’re missing.

Clear #1 target IMO and if we manage to land him I’ll be thrilled.

[DPG21920]

Reed is the one guy I would actually want SA to trade up for. Ive been on Reed to Spurs as my best case for a while now personally.

[AFBlue]

Reed is the one guy I would actually want SA to trade up for. Ive been on Reed to Spurs as my best case for a while now personally.

That seems to be the only way to get him. Wonder what the Wizards would want for #2.

[DPG21920]

That seems to be the only way to get him. Wonder what the Wizards would want for #2.

Theres nothing WAS would want IMO since they want Sarr and trading 2 for 4 would mean HOU could take Sarr. Only way Wash would trade is if Clingan went first and they legitimately like Risacher and Sarr equally and are guaranteed one of them. But from what we are seeing, that seems highly unlikely and they want Sarr badly.

So it would mean trading with ATL most likely or HOU way less likely.

The optimistic scenario for Spurs getting Reed is this: ATL takes Clingan, WAS take Sarr and HOU trades their 3rd pick and someone who really wants Risacher or Buzelis comes in and takes them at 3 and Reed naturally falls to 4.

Other than that, it means likely trading pick 8+ATL 25 for pick one or pick 4+8 for pick 1 none of which thrills me

[AFBlue]

Theres nothing WAS would want IMO since they want Sarr and trading 2 for 4 would mean HOU could take Sarr. Only way Wash would trade is if Clingan went first and they legitimately like Risacher and Sarr equally and are guaranteed one of them. But from what we are seeing, that seems highly unlikely and they want Sarr badly.

So it would mean trading with ATL most likely or HOU way less likely.

The optimistic scenario for Spurs getting Reed is this: ATL takes Clingan, WAS take Sarr and HOU trades their 3rd pick and someone who really wants Risacher or Buzelis comes in and takes them at 3 and Reed naturally falls to 4.

Other than that, it means likely trading pick 8+ATL 25 for pick one or pick 4+8 for pick 1 none of which thrills me

If Sarr goes #1 to ATL, or another team via trade, I could see Washington being open to moving back. But if Sarr is there at #2, I agree.

[DPG21920]

If Sarr goes #1 to ATL, or another team via trade, I could see Washington being open to moving back. But if Sarr is there at #2, I agree.

For sure - in that scenario I can see them being open to trade but that seems really unlikely at this point.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St54YFknNl4

[objective]

In case anyone was interested, the Dunc'd On podcast's scouting report on Sheppard had Duncan believing in Sheppard as an NBA point guard and Leroux more doubtful

[kht]

Does Reed have All-Star potential? I don't want a spot up shooting specialist with a top 4 pick...

[LeBowen]

Does Reed have All-Star potential? I don't want a spot up shooting specialist with a top 4 pick...

Only if he's the next all-time great shooter.
Not Steph level, but Klay/Ray level while being a solid playmaker.

I actually like the TJ McConnell with elite 3pt shooting as realistic comparison.

[SpursFan86]

TJ McConnell is really selling Sheppard short. He’s bigger, more athletic, and a more dynamic offensive player capable of scoring from almost anywhere on the court.

I think McConnell is closer to Sheppard’s floor than his median outcome. And I absolutely think Sheppard has all-star potential…questioning whether he’s just a spot up shooter is silly - just watch some highlights and you can clearly see he’s more than that. He’ll have to prove that he’s capable of consistently breaking down defenses and generating offense on his own, but his ability to move without the ball and shoot without being stationary shouldn’t really be a question. He’s the perfect type of guy to have next to Wemby as defenses will be forced to choose between leaving Wemby in single coverage vs. worrying about Sheppard getting open if Wemby gets doubled.

[PhantomDashCam]

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[Mr. Body]

Frankly, I don't see Sheppard making any All-Star team. He's going to be a very good role-player if things work out.

He never wowwed me in all the games I saw of Kentucky. Well, definitely plays here or there. Fantastic hands, a money jump shot, and a couple games (MS State) he took over. But he rarely seemed like "wow, that guy!" to me, he never dominated.

The player who dominated at times for Kentucky? The other short guy.

[SpursBills]

TJ McConnell is really selling Sheppard short. He’s bigger, more athletic, and a more dynamic offensive player capable of scoring from almost anywhere on the court.

I think McConnell is closer to Sheppard’s floor than his median outcome. And I absolutely think Sheppard has all-star potential…questioning whether he’s just a spot up shooter is silly - just watch some highlights and you can clearly see he’s more than that. He’ll have to prove that he’s capable of consistently breaking down defenses and generating offense on his own, but his ability to move without the ball and shoot without being stationary shouldn’t really be a question. He’s the perfect type of guy to have next to Wemby as defenses will be forced to choose between leaving Wemby in single coverage vs. worrying about Sheppard getting open if Wemby gets doubled.

As much as I like Sheppard, I think that McConnell with JJ Reddick's jumper is probably at least median if not an above median outcome for him. Especially if you're looking at TJ McConnell these last 2 years, he's been an 18/10/5 per 36 minute guy on 50/40/80 shooting with a +2 BPM. This is all with an incredibly low volume 3 point shooting. His main limitation to not playing more minutes is his complete inability to space the floor. Give that guy a 40% 3 point jumper on 7-8 attempts per 36 and that's an all star player to me. Reed's got a ways to go with regards to POA defense, increasing his shooting volume, and limiting his turnovers before he turns into that player.

[SpursFan86]

As much as I like Sheppard, I think that McConnell with JJ Reddick's jumper is probably at least median if not an above median outcome for him. Especially if you're looking at TJ McConnell these last 2 years, he's been an 18/10/5 per 36 minute guy on 50/40/80 shooting with a +2 BPM. This is all with an incredibly low volume 3 point shooting. His main limitation to not playing more minutes is his complete inability to space the floor. Give that guy a 40% 3 point jumper on 7-8 attempts per 36 and that's an all star player to me. Reed's got a ways to go with regards to POA defense, increasing his shooting volume, and limiting his turnovers before he turns into that player.

Fair enough - maybe I’m underselling what TJ McConnell with an elite jumper would be.

My point remains that I don’t think there’s any way Sheppard is just a “lowly” spot-up shooting role player in the NBA, and I don’t think him becoming an all-star is some crazy outlier outcome at all. It’s certainly not his base case but it doesn’t take a wild imagination to see him becoming one. I feel like a lot of people on this board think there’s no ceiling with Sheppard and that him being anything more than a role player is highly unlikely.

[SpursBills]

Fair enough - maybe I’m underselling what TJ McConnell with an elite jumper would be.

My point remains that I don’t think there’s any way Sheppard is just a “lowly” spot-up shooting role player in the NBA, and I don’t think him becoming an all-star is some crazy outlier outcome at all. It’s certainly not his base case but it doesn’t take a wild imagination to see him becoming one. I feel like a lot of people on this board think there’s no ceiling with Sheppard and that him being anything more than a role player is highly unlikely.

Hornacek is still the most reasonable 70th percentile outcome that I've seen - doesn't require insane development in his handle, shotmaking, or defense, and the guy was a 1 time all-star and the third best player on multiple contenders, and good enough to be the centerpiece for a Barkley trade. I think that's a reasonable compromise between those who say "bench spot up shooter" and "steve nash"

[SpursFan86]

Hornacek is still the most reasonable 70th percentile outcome that I've seen - doesn't require insane development in his handle, shotmaking, or defense, and the guy was a 1 time all-star and the third best player on multiple contenders, and good enough to be the centerpiece for a Barkley trade. I think that's a reasonable compromise between those who say "bench spot up shooter" and "steve nash"

And I think that type of outcome is extremely valuable for a franchise that already found their clear #1 guy. For other teams, I can see trying to take a gamble on someone with maybe a little juicier upside. For the Spurs Sheppard just so clearly seems like an impeccable fit IMO.

[MultiTroll]

TJ McConnell is really selling Sheppard short. He’s bigger,
They're both 6'1" - 6'2"

Are you claiming he is way more muscular or what?

Sheppard does have more hops for sure.
But can he use the hops in a real life NBA game?

All kinds of former Slam Dunk Contest open gym type leapers who didn't become big in the NBA/

[SpursFan86]

They're both 6'1" - 6'2"

Are you claiming he is way more muscular or what?

Sheppard does have more hops for sure.
But can he use the hops in a real life NBA game?

All kinds of former Slam Dunk Contest open gym type leapers who didn't become big in the NBA/

McConnell was 6’0.5” without shoes at the combine. Sheppard is 6’1.75”.

[MultiTroll]

McConnell was 6’0.5” without shoes at the combine. Sheppard is 6’1.75”.
Oh a whole inch taller.
Sign him up. :lol

Now can he defend fast guards? Taller guards?

[Mr. Body]

Oh a whole inch taller.
Sign him up. :lol

Now can he defend fast guards? Taller guards?

Sheppard is going to have the same problem with size Dillingham will have.

His team defense will be much better. His random play making on defense will be very good.

But he got wrecked by Dalton Knecht, who liked like a giant next to him. Sheppard has trouble navigating screens.

Sheppard could have helped against Gohlke versus Oakland but wasn't fast enough and kept getting picked off.

The player who stayed with Gohlke, this guy constantly moving and bombing away, the only guy who could keep alongside him, was Dillingham.

[MultiTroll]

Sheppard has trouble navigating screens.

Sheppard could have helped against Gohlke versus Oakland but wasn't fast enough and kept getting picked off.

The player who stayed with Gohlke, this guy constantly moving and bombing away, the only guy who could keep alongside him, was Dillingham.
I'm not nec totally down on Sheppard or Dilly pickle, but beezus with these glaring weaknesses is it way to much to ask for another....

Manu GNob? :rollin

[scott]

I really love the idea of somehow moving up to 5 to have back-to-back picks, but IMO, trying to land Sheppard and Castle is the most unlikely to be achieved scenario because it requires the complicity of the two teams most likely to have those guys at the top of their boards. If you take Castle, DET isn't trading with you to take Reed, and if you take Reed, CHA isn't trading with you to take Castle. DET and CHA each are probably not too interested in helping you snake their guy, either.

I think the best chance you have of securing a trade for 5 is if Risacher and Reed both go Top3, and DET isn't too psyched about Buzelis, giving you an opportunity to grab Castle and Buz. That will leave Clingan for CHA or POR, but if CHA takes Clingan it really leaves Williams for POR, unless they go Salaun (or DET likes Salaun).

If Castle goes Top-3, then the CHA pick is probably in play (assuming Clingan and Sarr go 1-2) where you take Reed at 4, and then move up to CHA to take Buz after DET goes Risacher (or vice versa).

While I love the idea of moving to 5 or 6... I don't think it's really all that likely for these reasons and SA might have to overpay more than originally estimated.

[PhantomDashCam]

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[CGD]

I really love the idea of somehow moving up to 5 to have back-to-back picks, but IMO, trying to land Sheppard and Castle is the most unlikely to be achieved scenario because it requires the complicity of the two teams most likely to have those guys at the top of their boards. If you take Castle, DET isn't trading with you to take Reed, and if you take Reed, CHA isn't trading with you to take Castle. DET and CHA each are probably not too interested in helping you snake their guy, either.

I think the best chance you have of securing a trade for 5 is if Risacher and Reed both go Top3, and DET isn't too psyched about Buzelis, giving you an opportunity to grab Castle and Buz. That will leave Clingan for CHA or POR, but if CHA takes Clingan it really leaves Williams for POR, unless they go Salaun (or DET likes Salaun).

If Castle goes Top-3, then the CHA pick is probably in play (assuming Clingan and Sarr go 1-2) where you take Reed at 4, and then move up to CHA to take Buz after DET goes Risacher (or vice versa).

While I love the idea of moving to 5 or 6... I don't think it's really all that likely for these reasons and SA might have to overpay more than originally estimated.

If both Shepard and Castle are there at 4, I’m not sure why DET would be opposed to trading back to 8 because for are there.

The Spurs basically have to make clear to DET that they are absolutely taking Shepard 4 (which I image they’d be happy to do). I don’t see DET as a Castle landing spot, and one of their preferred wing options at 5 will be there at 8 (Williams, Buzelis, Holland).

[spurraider21]

Frankly, I don't see Sheppard making any All-Star team. He's going to be a very good role-player if things work out.

He never wowwed me in all the games I saw of Kentucky. Well, definitely plays here or there. Fantastic hands, a money jump shot, and a couple games (MS State) he took over. But he rarely seemed like "wow, that guy!" to me, he never dominated.

The player who dominated at times for Kentucky? The other short guy.
took me a while to nut up and finally decide which one i liked more than the other, and ultimately sided with reed just because his skill set i think is a bit more suited to what we need with vic. dilly is the more talented offensive player. they're pretty comparable in passing ability, though dillingham is significantly better at creating passing lanes with his superior handling. i think sheppard is the better decision maker in transition, and obviously is the more impactful defender (though he's not perfect). with the amount of ballhandling wemby already does (inverted pick and rolls and all), with vassell's pick and roll aptitude, i think the raw ballhandling and shot creation of dillingham isnt quite as necessary as sheppard's ability to have some impact defensively

but if we took dillingham id be thrilled. i would even think he's a good pick at 4

[objective]

Podziemski is an example of why the concerns about shepperd's defense are overstated

Podz college film on defense was just as atrocious. Loved what I saw on offense, but that defense was trash, no where near good enough for an NBA court

But what happens? He gets to the NBA and because he's smart, coached, and plays hard, he's able to play just executing the system and playing hard. Turns out he wasn't the worst defender of all time

Shepperd will be the same. The man defense won't be that bad, the team defense will be good, and everyone will forget about how he couldn't stay in front of some random guy that's going to be selling cars instead of playing the NBA

Shepperd is good enough to trade up for.

[AFBlue]

Podziemski is an example of why the concerns about shepperd's defense are overstated

Podz college film on defense was just as atrocious. Loved what I saw on offense, but that defense was trash, no where near good enough for an NBA court

But what happens? He gets to the NBA and because he's smart, coached, and plays hard, he's able to play just executing the system and playing hard. Turns out he wasn't the worst defender of all time

Shepperd will be the same. The man defense won't be that bad, the team defense will be good, and everyone will forget about how he couldn't stay in front of some random guy that's going to be selling cars instead of playing the NBA

Shepperd is good enough to trade up for.

Praying someone trades with Houston at #3 to grab Clingan so Sheppard will fall to the Spurs. This is my guy.

[Seventyniner]

Podziemski is an example of why the concerns about shepperd's defense are overstated

Podz college film on defense was just as atrocious. Loved what I saw on offense, but that defense was trash, no where near good enough for an NBA court

But what happens? He gets to the NBA and because he's smart, coached, and plays hard, he's able to play just executing the system and playing hard. Turns out he wasn't the worst defender of all time

Shepperd will be the same. The man defense won't be that bad, the team defense will be good, and everyone will forget about how he couldn't stay in front of some random guy that's going to be selling cars instead of playing the NBA

Shepperd is good enough to trade up for.

Damn what happened to Branham then.

[spurraider21]

Damn what happened to Branham then.
he's not smart, he's not well coached, and he doesn't play hard

[benefactor]

Reed pls :cry

[lefty20]

Reed pls :cry

https://thestarryeye.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cdd0d53ef010536c844f7970b-320wi

[DAF86]

All Reed believers check in.

[Obstructed_View]

he's not smart, he's not well coached, and he doesn't play hard
The fans here keep dinging Spurs players for horrendous defense, but the players are not held to account by this coaching staff. They get benched for missing shots, then they get benched for passing up shots because they are afraid to be benched for missing. Defense never enters into it.

[Seventyniner]

All Reed believers check in.

In.

[Uriel]

If Houston trades pick #3, I guarantee you Reed Sheppard will be a Spur, provided Risacher and Sarr go 1 and 2, as expected.

[Seventyniner]

The best chance for the Spurs to get Reed, without trading up of course, is if the Rockets trade #3 to a team who takes Clingan, most likely Memphis. imo the Rockets will just take Reed if they keep the pick.

[spurraider21]

All Reed believers check in.
in

dont see him falling tho.

reminds me of the raiders having the #4 overall pick in the 2019 draft, and and there was a clear falloff after #3. top pick was gonna be kyler, and the next 2 top ranked prospects were Nick Bosa and Quinnen Williams. and all offseason raider fans were wishcasting that somehow one of them would fall to 4, because #4 was otherwise a somewhat awkward pick (there was josh allen, the DE not the QB, but he wasnt seen to be in the same tier as the other guys)

naturally top 3 just went kyler, bosa, williams and raiders panicked and took clelin ferrell :lol

similarly, i expect the top 3 to just be risacher/sarr/sheppard and spurs will have to make a suboptimal pick because apparently dillingham isnt at play at 4

[Jordan Jackson]

Reed pls :cry

Agreed. I think I would lean towards him as the pick. He is elite at a skill - which compensates for whatever defensive short comings he has. Smart player too.

I think Rockets screw the Spurs over and pick him though.

[LeBowen]

Agreed. I think I would lean towards him as the pick. He is elite at a skill - which compensates for whatever defensive short comings he has. Smart player too.

I think Rockets screw the Spurs over and pick him though.

For me it's not about his defensive shortcomings, it's about his playmaking.
I really don't want to use a #4 pick on JJ Redick.
We wouldn't need him to be Nash, but we'd definitely need him to be able to initiate the offense and be the primary ballhandler. I'm not sure he'll be able to do it.

[tonight...you]

All Reed believers check in.
Reedlievers

[RC_Drunkford]

he's a great pick if he can hold his own on defense in the NBA. Huge "if" but I wouldn't mind the pick.

[Cardinal]

Checking in!

[Obstructed_View]

There are gonna be a lot of bumps in this thread if the Spurs don't end up with this kid.

[benefactor]

There are gonna be a lot of bumps in this thread if the Spurs don't end up with this kid.
If he's there and they don't draft him I will bump it every time he rapes them from distance and the Spurs shoot 6 of 30 from distance.

[SpursFan86]

If he's there and they don't draft him I will bump it every time he rapes them from distance and the Spurs shoot 6 of 30 from distance.

Yeah it’s one thing if Houston grabs him at 3…but if he’s available and we choose to go with someone else I’ll be sick. And if that someone else is Salaun I might turn off the draft and tune out for the night :lol

[Obstructed_View]

If he's there and they don't draft him I will bump it every time he rapes them from distance and the Spurs shoot 6 of 30 from distance.
It's weird reading people saying the things he doesn't do. He's a better Steve Nash who plays defense. Think he will probably go top three and render this debate moot.

[TrainOfThought5]

If Houston trades pick #3, I guarantee you Reed Sheppard will be a Spur, provided Risacher and Sarr go 1 and 2, as expected.

I believe the Spurs will value castles, defense and size, and we know they don’t mind drafting players that can’t shoot worth a damn. I believe Castle will be the pick over Reed

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah it’s one thing if Houston grabs him at 3…but if he’s available and we choose to go with someone else I’ll be sick. And if that someone else is Salaun I might turn off the draft and tune out for the night :lol
The only Spurs draft I have turned off in the last 34 years was when they drafted Bill Curly. I didn't know they picked him to trade to Detroit and bring Sean Elliott back. :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Don't worry so much. Reed is going to be nothing more than a player who comes off the bench with a limited role.
The guy is a lethal 3 point shooter, who can dribble the ball and create for others. I thought the Rockets would trade the pick. I’m happy they decided to stick with it. He is a fit with the Rockets.

[DAF86]

Not athletic enough to create his offense when the defense is set like Ariel says above. Underwhelming ball handler. Spurs don't need more of this on the roster.

He isn't anything more than a set shooter, a player who comes off the bench as a role player shooter. Spurs do need to add shooting but not at the expense of the other areas.

He seems to be way more than a set shooter, if you ask me.

[DAF86]

PATFO gotta thank their lucky stars this guy got selected at 3. I doubt they would have drafted him if he was available at 4.

[Uriel]

PATFO gotta thank their lucky stars this guy got selected at 3. I doubt they would have drafted him if he was available at 4.
timvp’s final Big Board had intel saying they had him ranked over Castle and would have taken him at 4 if both had been available.

[couchman]

I’m still gutted that PATFO didn’t move up to get Risacher or Sheppard, who were the clear top tier in this draft on my board.
Either one would have started for us from day 1.
Castle might be good eventually and I’m rooting for him, but he wasn’t even a top 4 prospect on my big board.

[KDKSpurs24]

I’m still gutted that PATFO didn’t move up to get Risacher or Sheppard, who were the clear top tier in this draft on my board.
Either one would have started for us from day 1.
Castle might be good eventually and I’m rooting for him, but he wasn’t even a top 4 prospect on my big board.

Why do you make it sound like that was such an easy thing to do? Like really? How do you know that they didn’t try? Other teams can easily just refuse an offer or request a steep price. You do know that right?

[couchman]

Why do you make it sound like that was such an easy thing to do? Like really? How do you know that they didn’t try? Other teams can easily just refuse an offer or request a steep price. You do know that right?

Yes I’m aware.
I still think Wash accepts 4+8 for 2 but maybe not!

[objective]

He'll be even better with better players around him. He'll be a max guy after his rookie deal.

[DPG21920]

Good news is if broke this way SA could get both Reed and Castle (either with Castle falling to 8 or by trading up using 8 + something with DET or CHA)

Oh how lovely this would have been

[DPG21920]

Sucks because im 99% sure Reed is going in the top 3 and it will probably be HOU if they don’t trade that pick. I think Reed is probably the best player in this draft for Spurs so it really annoys me that HOU is likely going to get him and hes a great fit there

I hate that he went to HOU tbh…so annoying. HOU been very good drafting overall lately.

[TD 21]

Since these games are the be all end all, he's already proven what I said months ago, which is that he's the best player in this draft.


I hate that he went to HOU tbh…so annoying. HOU been very good drafting overall lately.

It's amazing what happens when you focus on a combination of outlier talent and/or physical tools as well as analytics instead of concerning yourself with archaic, rigid ideals.

[freetiago]

People should try to value guys who actually know how to play basketball more instead of clowns who don't even like basketball but have good measureables with no actual bball skills

[alfahdlan]

writings were on the walls. he almost eclipse the steals record of rondo in UK, freshman of the year etc. Now the skills he showed in UK is what he is showing in SL plus upgrades.

[siraulo23]

Reed is gonna be a stud on offense, wish the Spurs had a chance to draft him, damn it Houston

[exstatic]

PATFO gotta thank their lucky stars this guy got selected at 3. I doubt they would have drafted him if he was available at 4.

So, now they get bashed on what you THINK they might do? Haterade at its finest.

[rascal]

He seems to be way more than a set shooter, if you ask me.

Still rather have Castle.

[cd98]

Reed is gonna be a stud on offense, wish the Spurs had a chance to draft him, damn it Houston

To get over the sting, I just remember that Houston says the same thing about us with Wemby.

[widowmaker]

He plays for the rockets now close the book.

[benefactor]

Mr. Body tell us again how bad Reed Sheppard sucks

[Degoat]

Reed Sheppard has definitely looked the part but I still think the spurs choose Castle over him. Size and Versatility is what the spurs seem to target.

Will be interesting how the rockets handle Reeds growth tho because they have Van Fleet, Green, Thompson, and Brooks on that team already

[baseline bum]

Had him 1b on my final board with Castle 1a, so not the least bit surprised Sheppard is killing shit given and he should be a perfect fit in Houston's lineup. Seemed obvious from the second they moved up to the #3 pick that Sheppard would be their guy, especially since they have someone a lot like Castle already in Amen and have Whitmore and Smith for the 3/4 so Risacher wouldn't have made much sense either.

[baseline bum]

Reed Sheppard has definitely looked the part but I still think the spurs choose Castle over him. Size and Versatility is what the spurs seem to target.

Will be interesting how the rockets handle Reeds growth tho because they have Van Fleet, Green, Thompson, and Brooks on that team already

VanVleet was just brought in for the couple of years until they were ready to hand PG duties off to Amen. But with Sheppard there now they have two high-quality young initiators and might as well trade VanVleet now if they get an interesting offer. Can't imagine they won't move Green for future draft capital too if Sheppard plays like this in the season. Rockets are setup nicely to be a contender for years.

[Arguendo]

I’m still gutted that PATFO didn’t move up to get Risacher or Sheppard, who were the clear top tier in this draft on my board.
Either one would have started for us from day 1.
Castle might be good eventually and I’m rooting for him, but he wasn’t even a top 4 prospect on my big board.
So you are gutted that the Spurs didn't effectively trade Castle + '30 Top1 swap & '31 unprotected (both from a historically bottom tier franchise after Ant retires who currently has the 2nd worst cap situation and will have to blow it up) + '31 swap from a bottom tier franchise that is likely to be bad + Barnes who is likely to be a Day1 starter providing similar (maybe better) production than a Rookie Zach for Zach and NOP's #2 (likely around 50 overall).

That seems like a high price to move up 2 spots for a projected medium floor/medium ceiling role player rather than just keeping the medium floor/high ceiling potential future PG.

Keep in mind that #2 pays $2.2M more than so they can't do Paul + Barnes without cutting Champ whose contract alone is a valuable asset, especially in the Apron Era.

[DAF86]

Still rather have Castle.

That wouldn't make your evaluation of Sheppard being unable to do anything other than catch and shoot 3's any less wrong, tbh.

[benefactor]

That wouldn't make your evaluation of Sheppard being unable to do anything other than catch and shoot 3's any less wrong, tbh.
Im picking Sheppard 10 times out of 10 over Castle. The fact that rascal doesn't want him only strengthens the case lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

After watching both Sheppard and Castle during the Summer League, I would still pick Castle.

[rascal]

That wouldn't make your evaluation of Sheppard being unable to do anything other than catch and shoot 3's any less wrong, tbh.

You liked Dillingham over Sheppard.

[exstatic]

Reed Sheppard has definitely looked the part but I still think the spurs choose Castle over him. Size and Versatility is what the spurs seem to target.

Will be interesting how the rockets handle Reeds growth tho because they have Van Fleet, Green, Thompson, and Brooks on that team already
FVV is an ending contract. Doubt he’s brought back. Same with Brooks.

[rascal]

After watching both Sheppard and Castle during the Summer League, I would still pick Castle.

So would I

Castle will have the better all around game. Happy Houston took Sheppard and Castle was able to fall to the Spurs.

[DAF86]

You liked Dillingham over Sheppard.

Not on draft day.

[DAF86]

All Reed believers check in.

I mean, it is a easy as scrolling back two pages.

[couchman]

So you are gutted that the Spurs didn't effectively trade Castle + '30 Top1 swap & '31 unprotected (both from a historically bottom tier franchise after Ant retires who currently has the 2nd worst cap situation and will have to blow it up) + '31 swap from a bottom tier franchise that is likely to be bad + Barnes who is likely to be a Day1 starter providing similar (maybe better) production than a Rookie Zach for Zach and NOP's #2 (likely around 50 overall).

That seems like a high price to move up 2 spots for a projected medium floor/medium ceiling role player rather than just keeping the medium floor/high ceiling potential future PG.

Keep in mind that #2 pays $2.2M more than so they can't do Paul + Barnes without cutting Champ whose contract alone is a valuable asset, especially in the Apron Era.

Yes exactly and for several reasons.
1. I rated Sheppard much higher than Castle before the draft and I still do. Sheppard’s floor is elite role player, which he can do RIGHT NOW and his upside is all-star PG and maybe even best shooter in NBA history. Castle is unplayable for a winning team until he learns to shoot, which may or may not happen and certainly won’t happen soon. His upside is all-star and great defender but his floor is BUST.
2. I’m wanting to build a team that can start winning in 2025, not a decade from now. This team won’t start winning until we can shoot well around Wemby.

[jesterbobman]

I had Reed over Castle, no reason for that to change so far.

I think Castle's on ball flashes in terms of PG skills have looked a little better than Reed, which I was iffy on pre-draft, but Reed still being an event creator on D and being able to shoot the ever living shit out of the ball are still major strengths.

[spurraider21]

its not just that reed is lighting up the box scores... the reason i was high on him, particularly for the spurs, is that i believed he would be successful as a point guard and not just an undersized 2. he looks the part and thats what matters

similar to Castle who had similar questions. is he a point guard or a wing... i had less faith in Castle panning out as a PG than i did Sheppard. looks like both have the requisite handling and passing to get by, but Sheppard's shooting is going to make things way easy for him, whereas Castle is going to deal with defenders sagging off him and cramming the paint.

and at least at the summer league level, sheppard's defensive playmaking is still showing up. even though he is already getting beaten off the dribble as expected, he makes up for it with impact plays

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Sheppard is going to be good, but there is a lot of summer league overreaction here. Certain things translate in the SL, and other things don't.

Scoring and shooting is probably the most overrated and non-translatable. I saw Marco Belineli score 37 in his summer league debut. I thought he was going to be the Italian Michael Jordan. The teams in the summer league haven't been together long, so team defense ranges from nonexistent to piss poor. Guys will get looks in the summer league that they won't sniff in the NBA, so the numbers don't reflect reality.

Another thing that is piss poor is ball control. For the same cohesiveness reasons that SL defense is disconnected, players on offense aren't used to their teammates, they don't know where they are going to be, and turnovers and steals are aplenty. I wouldn't put any stock into steals numbers in the summer league.

The things that do translate? Basketball IQ. Watch how players move without the ball. Watch how they see the floor, create looks and find their teammates. On defense, watch how they rotate and move in space on the weakside, or pick up cutters. Effort translates -- players who seem to always be around the ball and come up with 50/50 balls. Athleticism and physicality translates to a certain extent, but in a negative way. You can tell if a guy doesn't belong athletically more so than if he does. Most of the players in the SL are great athletes. If you are overwhelmed there, you are really going to be overwhelmed in the big league but even if a player stands out athletically, it is not an indication that he will stand out physically at the next level. Because the next level guys are really next level athletes.

My take on Sheppard is that he's got a high IQ and will make plays. He's going to hit shots from the moon if you leave him alone for a split second. I still believe he's going to have trouble creating his own shot. He's going to get exploited on defense. I saw Bub Carrington go right around him without much resistance, and you saw it over and over in college. He's going to probably put up impressive steals numbers because he's more inclined to play the passing lanes instead of sticking to his man, and people will confuse that with good defense. It's a risk/reward thing that you can get away with in the SL, but you will get burned more often than not playing that way in the real league.

I'd still take Castle over him, and I think Houston not having a rim protector behind him is going to make things tough for them on defense.

[widowmaker]

Yeah I remember Champeanie looked good in summer league play last year as well.

[spurraider21]

champagnie was 22yo who had both G-League and NBA experience with a 3 year college career whereas Sheppard just turned 20 and coming off his freshman college season

[sfernald]

Frankly, I don't see Sheppard making any All-Star team. He's going to be a very good role-player if things work out.

He never wowwed me in all the games I saw of Kentucky. Well, definitely plays here or there. Fantastic hands, a money jump shot, and a couple games (MS State) he took over. But he rarely seemed like "wow, that guy!" to me, he never dominated.

The player who dominated at times for Kentucky? The other short guy.

This is gonna age well.

[Mr. Body]

This is gonna age well.

You think Reed Sheppard is going to make an All Star team? I don't.

[ismael-robert]

At this point I'm not sure how spurs pass rockets...even in 2025

[sfernald]

You think Reed Sheppard is going to make an All Star team? I don't.

I think he’s gonna be the Luka of this draft, dropping when he should have been #1 cause he doesn’t look like the prototypical star, but actually an absolute no brainer star in a weak draft hiding in plain sight.

But yeah I think def NBA all star, a weird amalgam of Nash and Curry!

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah looks like Reed and Edey will be at the top of the redraft articles in a few years.

[ambchang]

Spurs passing on both reed and Sheppard for castle will live in ST infamy along with trading away paul George.

[CGD]

Yeah looks like Reed and Edey will be at the top of the redraft articles in a few years.

They’ll both be behind Castle, don’t worry. And in EDs case, way behind

[Obstructed_View]

They’ll both be behind Castle, don’t worry. And in EDs case, way behind

That will be great. I hope you're right.

[Uriel]

I hate that he went to HOU tbh…so annoying. HOU been very good drafting overall lately.
Hmm... I wonder why.

https://www.simplilearn.com/ice9/free_resources_article_thumb/data_analyticstrendsmin.jpg

[Arguendo]

Yes exactly and for several reasons.
1. I rated Sheppard much higher than Castle before the draft and I still do. Sheppard’s floor is elite role player, which he can do RIGHT NOW and his upside is all-star PG and maybe even best shooter in NBA history. Castle is unplayable for a winning team until he learns to shoot, which may or may not happen…
2. I’m wanting to build a team that can start winning in 2025, not a decade from now. This team won’t start winning until we can shoot well around Wemby.
I appreciate your take & I misread your post- overlooked it was Zac OR Reed.
I largely agree, I wanted Reed and think he’s one of the best shooting prospects ever. I slightly disagree on his floor as an “elite role player” because of size/D concerns against oversized guard, but I also think Reeds the mostly likely All-NBA players out of this draft.

But love hyperbole huh? Seriously, “a decade from now”- you sure can beat the shit outta those straw men.
I guess everyone’s floor is a bust, including Reed, but Castles realistic floor isn’t bust. He was an elite defender at the highest college lvl as an 18 from the get go. He stepped into the most complex system in college & was elite (66.4%) within 3’, where he took over 40% of his shots. Maybe that’s cause he’s a terrible shooter, or just maybe it’s bc he was mature enough & coached well enough to defer those mid & deep shots to other guys & focused his games where it would help his team, D, getting to rim & hitting the boards (which he is also very good at for a guard). Add in great size, strength, body control & a high FTA rate (37.6%, hitting 75.5%) & that’s a very unlikely “BUST”. Many, many, many guards have some into the league (at an older age) & developed their shot.
Id rather have all those assets & Castle potential to be a huge PG vs Reed, & we can disagree without hyperbole.

I would also love to build a defensive juggernaut bc that’s is VW’s biggest core compentency. Shooters are easy to find at the 2-3-4, especially if you have a very good to All-D @ the 1 & the best D anywhere (maybe ever) at the five.
But I’m also wanting this to be another dynasty, so I’m not wanting them to push all-in (or even too much in) to “win (43 games) NOW”. Pick your spot, don’t overpay, especially for a flawed prospect (every player in this draft has significant flaws, Reed included). Maybe Reed is Curry 2.0, but I think there’s a much better chance Steph is Jrue 2.0 (who is better at the rim, a better rebounder, & draws more FTAs), & you add that the VM for a decade and that is an easy team to put role players around.

[couchman]

Hyperbole is fun.
I’m rooting for Castle for all of the reasons you state.
He’s a riskier pick than Sheppard imo but there’s no doubt the upside if he learns to shoot is huge.

[JPB]

champagnie was 22yo who had both G-League and NBA experience with a 3 year college career whereas Sheppard just turned 20 and coming off his freshman college season

Yup, and Belinelli played like 4 years as a pro in top teams in Italy before being drafted.

Let's see how Castle develop but Reed would have been just fine to space the floor for Wemby and vice and versa.

[JPB]

Hyperbole is fun.
I’m rooting for Castle for all of the reasons you state.
He’s a riskier pick than Sheppard imo but there’s no doubt the upside if he learns to shoot is huge.

they had no choice, and maybe were after Sheppard but in this draft, with Wemby in and the imperial necessitiy of adding some shooting, I would have privileged the more sure thing and bet on next year and/or trades to add bigger and less risky upside.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Really bummed we couldn't get Reed. He was my #1 for this draft.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Mr. Body tell us again how bad Reed Sheppard sucks

:lmao

[exstatic]

Really bummed we couldn't get Reed. He was my #1 for this draft.

You’d have started a game thread and gotten him injured.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You’d have started a game thread and gotten him injured.

But still, having him on the roster would've been :spin

[Uriel]

Interesting tidbit from an Express-News podcast:


This is an information that helps anybody now, but I just found it interesting the way the Spurs viewed the top of that draft. And it goes like this, if they had had the first pick, and this surprised me because we spend so much time talking about the draft and we kind of didn't really talk about this name, but if they'd had the top pick, they would have absolutely taken Alex Sarr with the top pick.

Alex Sarr, went to the Washington Wizards with the number two pick.

We wondered about his fit and blah, blah, blah. They thought if they ended up with Alex Sarr, all the others, like just they pictured him as like a bigger, better Jeremy Sochan that maybe they could teach to do the offensive stuff. Like the defense and the mobility would be just worth it, especially in a draft like this where everyone has flaws.

If they'd had the second pick or if the choice had been Castle or Reed Sheppard at four, they would have gone Reed Sheppard probably. Probably just because of the shooting. And then Castle was the guy that I guess probably would have been third on their board.

So they got the third guy on their board at pick number four.

Not a lot of interest in Risacher that went first overall. Like it'd be interesting, I don't know what they'd have done if those first three guys had been gone one through two, three, and Risacher was there at number four, but weren't quite sold on him, I don't think. So all that was interesting, but I was a little surprised that they were, it was like a no-brainer that you take Sarr number one if they had had the pick.

Risacher was a guy who really rose, like two months before the draft, you look at the mocks, and he was like eight, nine, 10, then that range, and maybe it wasn't two months. It was not long before the draft. During the last season, I don't think anybody thought he was number one.

He had kind of this surge because of the way he finished his season overseas, and I tend to be kind of skeptical of those overnight risers, and sounds like the Spurs might have been too.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-new-look-lineup-around-wemby/id1344226066?i=1000662457778

[MultiTroll]

Watching the Rockets TWolves game. My first view of pro Reed, Dilly etc.

Sheppard Sniffers have overated. He does show promise but as posted he's not going to get near as many these cushy looks in the regular season.

Tonight for each good play he has made, and his running midrange jumper is impressive.....he gets his shit pushed in -badly. Blocked or stolen.

I'd take Ron Holland before Reed Shepard.

[Raven]

watched the dilli vs reed matchup... both seem to have legitimate pg skills, but i wouldn't have them in the rotation on any team tbh.. at least 9 months away from being reasonable to play them, and they both look really small.

[JPB]

Interesting tidbit from an Express-News podcast:


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-new-look-lineup-around-wemby/id1344226066?i=1000662457778

Whatever you think of him, Risacher has been projected #1 (top 3) all year long. He didn't rise the last two months :lol

And I like how he affirms stuff before saying... "I think". That's just a guy assuming stuff without any insight or information, however he's right or wrong, like anyone of us here... I also beleive Spurs were after Sheppard, but what do I know?

[Mr. Body]

watched the dilli vs reed matchup... both seem to have legitimate pg skills, but i wouldn't have them in the rotation on any team tbh.. at least 9 months away from being reasonable to play them, and they both look really small.

I see value in both.

Dillingham will be what the Wolves want him to be, a bench scorer and playmaker who changes the pace of games. They'll hope he can be hidden on defense, because he's terrible.

Sheppard is playable right from the start as a connector and box score threat. A team will have to account for him, leaving the better players more opportunities and space, which is what Houston will want.

[Mr. Body]

Whatever you think of him, Risacher has been projected #1 (top 3) all year long. He didn't rise the last two months :lol

And I like how he affirms stuff before saying... "I think". That's just a guy assuming stuff without any insight or information, however he's right or wrong, like anyone of us here... I also beleive Spurs were after Sheppard, but what do I know?

What mocks? Risacher had a lot of variation in mocks. Some might have had him #1, but it wasn't universal at all.

[MultiTroll]

With Sheppards vertical leap and running jumper skills.....

With a whole lot of work and needing to have heart

Does he have Manu GNob potential?

[rascal]

i still dont have it in me to cleanly decide between Reed and Dilly as my PG1 in this draft (though both are cleanly above Castle to me). ive leaned one way or another for a couple of months now and still cant make my mind up. id be thrilled with either at 4.

Some people were not high on Castle.

[mo7888]

Some people were not high on Castle.

I pretty consistently had him in the top 6 and that's where he finished for me. He has a shot to be the best player in that draft.

[spurraider21]

Some people were not high on Castle.
i liked castle. just not as much as the other guys i mentioned. on my board that i shared here i had him in tier 2 of guys id be satisfied at taking at #4

[John B]

Projected at 50% chance of getting the ROTY, currently averaging 3.3pts.

[Mr. Body]

My opinion on Sheppard has not changed one ounce. I thought he would really struggle getting separation, as he struggled even against college athletes. He would be a poor defender, since he was a poor defender in college. He would have games where he'd go off, but wasn't able to generate his own points. Terrific hands, but gets bodied and too slow to stay in front of people.

I was never sure why people coronated him as so good. I think within certain schema he will be a very solid player.

Stephon Castle to me was the best player in the draft and I barely had a second place.

[z0sa]

I'm ready to eat crow already with Castle. His jumpshot needs work, certainly, and that's what mainly turned me away from supporting him whole-heartedly.

That said, everything but Sheppard's jumpshot needs work. Not saying he's bad exactly, or even not worth the 3rd pick (yet). Just that he's not going to shine nearly as brightly as Castle in the immediate future.

[Joseph Kony]

Sheppard was never going to get a ton of burn this year, Ime is trying to make the playoffs so no time to showcase a rookie at a position they have plenty of bodies at already

[spurraider21]

My opinion on Sheppard has not changed one ounce. I thought he would really struggle getting separation, as he struggled even against college athletes. He would be a poor defender, since he was a poor defender in college. He would have games where he'd go off, but wasn't able to generate his own points. Terrific hands, but gets bodied and too slow to stay in front of people.

I was never sure why people coronated him as so good. I think within certain schema he will be a very solid player.

Stephon Castle to me was the best player in the draft and I barely had a second place.
yeah you were in on Castle for sure. rascal (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=914) as well

you were also quite high on dillingham as well (so was i)

i had risacher - sarr - sheppard - dillingham as my top 4, with castle in the next tier along with Holland (who has predictably looked quite raw)

[DPG21920]

I really liked Castle too, but with this draft even with liking guys, I still had serious concerns and worries. Castle has looked great and has done many things better early than I expected but tbh my worry was with his shot and of course we still will have questions there until he can prove he can shoot the 3 ball at a solid clip.

But I loved Castle in the context of who was available but I also really like Reed (especially because I lean on models/numbers and his were off charts as a shooter which is something SA needs badly). But even with him or Sarr or Risacher there were and still are obviously major questions about them all. But Im thrilled we ended up with Castle (I wanted Reed and Castle tbh..)

[baseline bum]

I really liked Castle too, but with this draft even with liking guys, I still had serious concerns and worries. Castle has looked great and has done many things better early than I expected but tbh my worry was with his shot and of course we still will have questions there until he can prove he can shoot the 3 ball at a solid clip.

But I loved Castle in the context of who was available but I also really like Reed (especially because I lean on models/numbers and his were off charts as a shooter which is something SA needs badly). But even with him or Sarr or Risacher there were and still are obviously major questions about them all. But Im thrilled we ended up with Castle (I wanted Reed and Castle tbh..)

After Dillingham's weight came in lower than advertised yeah I just wanted one of Castle or Sheppard at #4 too. Leaned a little bit Castle in that he's probably who I would have taken if say someone traded up with Houston to get Clingan but would have been happy with Sheppard too if Castle got taken third. I think they're both going to be really high quality role players, with low end all star potential on the table.

[DPG21920]

After Dillingham's weight came in lower than advertised yeah I just wanted one of Castle or Sheppard at #4 too. Leaned a little bit Castle in that he's probably who I would have taken if say someone traded up with Houston to get Clingan but would have been happy with Sheppard too if Castle got taken third. I think they're both going to be really high quality role players, with low end all star potential on the table.

Ya - I have not changed my opinion on Reed at all - why would I it’s only been a few games and his situation (team trying to win) is much different than Spurs.

But I will say even with the shot concerns I have with Castle, the fact hes able to defend so well so fast and process the game so well and passes FAR better than I thought? I think he has legit all star potential (even if he never makes an AS team, he will be a winning type player that is deserving of that title is what Im saying)

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I only caught a little bit of Sheppard on opening night against Charlotte... but the first thing that struck me was how small he looked out there.

His shooting alone probably guarantees him a 10 year career in the league, but he's fighting an uphill battle from a purely physical standpoint.

[baseline bum]

I only caught a little bit of Sheppard on opening night against Charlotte... but the first thing that struck me was how small he looked out there.

His shooting alone probably guarantees him a 10 year career in the league, but he's fighting an uphill battle from a purely physical standpoint.

I still remember at the draft lottery when ESPN had Castle and Clingan together next to Dillingham and Sheppard for an interview and it legit looked like Castle and Clingan were Dilly's and Sheppard's dads. :lol

But yeah hard to see Sheppard's shooting not translating and someone with is skillset his exactly who you'd want lining up next to Amen Thompson (assuming he's Houston's long term answer at the point).

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like a lot of these prospects we were fighting over all summer are going to be in the G League next month. I guess it's nice only having to worry about Castle's shooting at this point, but it's a legitimate concern.

[DPG21920]

Looks like a lot of these prospects we were fighting over all summer are going to be in the G League next month. I guess it's nice only having to worry about Castle's shooting at this point, but it's a legitimate concern.

And it’s mitigated some seeing how good he is on defense already and how he processes game so quickly alongside his much better than advertised ball handling/pace/passing. With all those traits, it raises his floor a TON even with the shooting. The shooting is a concern still, but it was more of one for me because I didnt know he had all the other stuff at this level.

[ambchang]

Not going to lie, I wanted Sheppard at 4, but didn’t mind having castle (also wanted holland as well). Wanted Salaun at 8 (or trading down to get more assets and Salaun) but then obviously that didn’t work out.

So far, castle looks legit.

[LeBowen]

Castle was the obvious choice since we couldn't get top2 picks.
I wanted Dillingham with #8 initially, but then I got over him due to his size and defense.
Still think we could regret not picking Cody Williams.

[CGD]

Man Jimmer if kinda in a tough situation. Too many mouths to feed in Houston. Did he even log minutes today?

[baseline bum]

Castle was the obvious choice since we couldn't get top2 picks.
I wanted Dillingham with #8 initially, but then I got over him due to his size and defense.
Still think we could regret not picking Cody Williams.

Yeah Cody would have been a really nice swing at 8, especially with Holland off the board. Though I would have taken Buzelis.

[Atl Spur]

Yeah Cody would have been a really nice swing at 8, especially with Holland off the board. Though I would have taken Buzelis.

Cody has to get more aggressive like his big bro. Now I will say, knecht would be nice in our line up

[Mr. Body]

Pretty interesting how the draft class has gone. Reed Sheppard has finally been shipped off to the G-League.

[spursistan]

It is kinda alarming that the 3rd pick of the draft couldn't sniff regular minutes for the 2025 Rockets who are by no means the 2016-17 Warriors on the "stacked" scale.

Spurs made the right pick with Castle and it will be further proven few years from now.

https://x.com/RGVVipers/status/1876319983254519980

[KingKev]

Rockets are 5th in the NBA and outside of Wemby have considerably more talent than we have. NBA teams send rookies down to the g-league for reps all the time. We are void of talent and Castle still barely gets consistent minutes.

I’d still take Castle over Sheppard but not exactly something to flex on.

[PhantomDashCam]

It is kinda alarming that the 3rd pick of the draft couldn't sniff regular minutes for the 2025 Rockets who are by no means the 2016-17 Warriors on the "stacked" scale.

Spurs made the right pick with Castle and it will be further proven few years from now.


I don't think it is alarming at all considering the Rockets depth chart. You're right though on Spurs potentially picking the better prospect long term.
If you look how well Payton Pritchard is performing with the Celtics, Reed is arguably much more talented and athletically gifted, enabling him to pursue loftier goals.

[paperboy77]

Here we go applying Spurs-homerisms to a player many wished was here in SA. The guy is 6-3 at best and not even a true PG. He has a nice shot but nothing to he can really get off against taller, athletic or most defenders for that matter, consistently. He would have been a good 20th or higher pick. Also, don't forget the dude wet the bed in his biggest college game of his career. Next!

[LeBowen]

I don't think it is alarming at all considering the Rockets depth chart. You're right though on Spurs potentially picking the better prospect long term.
If you look how well Payton Pritchard is performing with the Celtics, Reed is arguably much more talented and athletically gifted, enabling him to pursue loftier goals.

Rockets are 29th in 3PT% and they're a team full of good perimeter defenders.
If Sheppard can't get any minutes on a team that desperately needs shooting, then it's not looking good for ihm.

He'll obviously improve and could become a Pritchard, but do you really want your #3 pick to be just a bench shooter?

[Raven]

he was an easy bust to recognise, maybe he'll find a role in the future, who knows

[GAustex]

Better than Dillingham

[PhantomDashCam]

Rockets are 29th in 3PT% and they're a team full of good perimeter defenders.
If Sheppard can't get any minutes on a team that desperately needs shooting, then it's not looking good for ihm.

He'll obviously improve and could become a Pritchard, but do you really want your #3 pick to be just a bench shooter?

Fair criticism.
If the Rockets were losing and he wasn’t playing I’d absolutely be concerned. They are second though.

Reed has a long way to go undoubtedly. However getting reps in the G League could be just what he needs. He’ll likely play big minutes, get up a tonne of shots and have a chance to make some mistakes without being pulled.

[rascal]

he was an easy bust to recognise, maybe he'll find a role in the future, who knows

Not for many at Spurstalk.

[Mr. Body]

Rockets are 5th in the NBA and outside of Wemby have considerably more talent than we have. NBA teams send rookies down to the g-league for reps all the time. We are void of talent and Castle still barely gets consistent minutes.

I’d still take Castle over Sheppard but not exactly something to flex on.

It sounds like you're still in denial, lol.

Sheppard doesn't play because the Rockets are stacked. He doesn't play because he's very bad right now.

[exstatic]

Fair criticism.
If the Rockets were losing and he wasn’t playing I’d absolutely be concerned. They are second though.

Reed has a long way to go undoubtedly. However getting reps in the G League could be just what he needs. He’ll likely play big minutes, get up a tonne of shots and have a chance to make some mistakes without being pulled.

I think no matter how you slice it, a #3 overall pick that can’t get minutes is either a fucking mistake, or a fucking disappointment. Most of the excuses I’ve seen here apply to a generic FRP, not a top 3 pick.

Also, this illustrates the perils of drafting for need.

[Gibbz]

32% from the field and 27% from deep from an undersized shooter you drafted third overall is disastrous. We're lucky he went before we were on the clock.

[scott]

If someone's Top-5 pick is going to bust, I'm glad it's the Rockets'

[Seventyniner]

I was on the Sheppard train and would have taken him at 1. Glad the Spurs dodged that bullet...by not hiring me.

[dn0774]

It is kinda alarming that the 3rd pick of the draft couldn't sniff regular minutes for the 2025 Rockets who are by no means the 2016-17 Warriors on the "stacked" scale.

Spurs made the right pick with Castle and it will be further proven few years from now.

https://x.com/RGVVipers/status/1876319983254519980

That graphic is hilarious, as if it is some prestigious thing to get sent to the g-league as a 3rd overall pick lol. I still think Reed will be okay, Ime is just not willing to tolerate rookie passiveness/mistakes right now. I’m sure they hoped Reed would be more game ready but he had times at UK where he faded into the background too as I understand it.

Spend a couple weeks in the g-league and get your fga’s Reed.

[vander]

wow he looks a lot different than I remember, I thought he was almost blond at Kentucky

[BatManu20]

Way too early to call him a bust. He's 20 years old and playing on a team with a stack backcourt. He may end up busting but as for now, he's a young, inexperienced player who needs a lot of seasoning before he's ready to contribute at this level.

Doesn't help that he's 6'2 and looks like a pedophile.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYvtCL-WsAAbgj5?format=jpg&name=small

[rascal]

32% from the field and 27% from deep from an undersized shooter you drafted third overall is disastrous. We're lucky he went before we were on the clock.

I don't believe the Spurs were as interested in Sheppard as Spurstalk was.

[ChumpDumper]

Better than Dillingham

Not if you look at current performance instead of just skin color.

[PhantomDashCam]

He just dropped 49 points in 37 minutes in his G-League debut...

Edit: w Video


https://youtu.be/GY4jVZD30yU?si=FkgCPntBw2SJ9yRC

Some of those assists credited to him in the first half are pretty generous from the statisticians. The second half though shows some of the weapon the Rockets may have.

[djohn2oo8]

He just dropped 49 points in 37 minutes in his G-League debut...
Cam Whitmore finna lose his damn job

[mystargtr34]

Damn is that a g league record ?

[td4mvp2k]

i remember jimmer did the same in the gleague

[ChumpDumper]

Damn is that a g league record ?

Not even for this season.

[Uriel]

Reminder that post-draft reports from the Express-News had him as high as #2 on our big board (ahead of Castle at #3).

[couchman]

I still think he has a future in the association.
The shooting and opportunistic play will translate eventually.
On most lottery teams he would be getting more PT and a chance to develop but Houston has a crowded backcourt rotation and Udoka is emphasizing defense.

[djohn2oo8]

I still think he has a future in the association.
The shooting and opportunistic play will translate eventually.
On most lottery teams he would be getting more PT and a chance to develop but Houston has a crowded backcourt rotation and Udoka is emphasizing defense.
This is true. I think Reed might be coming back up sooner than later. Cam Whitemore is showing why his stocked dropped with his fuck ass attitude

[DAF86]

Well, it seems like he can create his own shot afterall. And before someone says "g-league", let me stop you right there. Self creation isn't something that you are gonna suddenly switch on playing lesser competition. Wesley isn't putting up 49 in the g-league.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, it seems like he can create his own shot afterall. And before someone says "g-league", let me stop you right there. Self creation isn't something that you are gonna suddenly switch on playing lesser competition. Wesley isn't putting up 49 in the g-league.

Jerdarrian Devontae Davison put up 48 this season.

We'll see what happens with Sheppard.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

He's looks tiny and physically overmatched in the league. And he's shooting 28% from three. Castle is considered a massive shooting project and is shooting 26%. If he can't shoot it at an elite, elite level he has no chance of making it in the NBA.

[rascal]

He's looks tiny and physically overmatched in the league. And he's shooting 28% from three. Castle is considered a massive shooting project and is shooting 26%. If he can't shoot it at an elite, elite level he has no chance of making it in the NBA.

It's good the Spurs avoided having to decide to draft him or not.

[Mr. Body]

Well, it seems like he can create his own shot afterall. And before someone says "g-league", let me stop you right there. Self creation isn't something that you are gonna suddenly switch on playing lesser competition. Wesley isn't putting up 49 in the g-league.

He can't create his own shot at all, not at the NBA level. He could barely do it in the NCAA. This just shows how bad the G-League defenses are. It seems like ages ago when people swore that shit-ass league was way better than college, the days before Ignite imploded.

Sheppard is very slow, has no shake or wiggle, and his handles are nothing more than rudimentary. In the big league, he's nullified if anyone is in his vicinity. Houston will have to game plan getting him open looks, because he won't be able to run a pick and roll or get himself or other people open. That may change over time, but Jimmer had way more self-creation. TJ McConnell has way more self-creation.

Then there's the other side of the ball where Sheppard is too small and slow to affect even basic guards, much less switches.

[Obstructed_View]

Sooooo...we're talking about a guy who was gone before the Spurs had a pick.

[Mr. Body]

Sooooo...we're talking about a guy who was gone before the Spurs had a pick.

Wow, you're quick on the uptake there Sparky.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, you're quick on the uptake there Sparky.

Yeah. That was worth clicking "view post" for. :lmao

[DAF86]

Jerdarrian Devontae Davison put up 48 this season.

We'll see what happens with Sheppard.

Because that guy probably has that ability, but most likely isn't NBA level. You can have that ability and not be an NBA player and viceversa (for example, Danny Green would probably never put up 50 pts as a main creator on the G-league, but he was an elite NBA level role player). I'm not saying Sheppard is NBA level, just that he has the ability to self-create.

[DAF86]

He can't create his own shot at all, not at the NBA level. He could barely do it in the NCAA. This just shows how bad the G-League defenses are. It seems like ages ago when people swore that shit-ass league was way better than college, the days before Ignite imploded.

Sheppard is very slow, has no shake or wiggle, and his handles are nothing more than rudimentary. In the big league, he's nullified if anyone is in his vicinity. Houston will have to game plan getting him open looks, because he won't be able to run a pick and roll or get himself or other people open. That may change over time, but Jimmer had way more self-creation. TJ McConnell has way more self-creation.

Then there's the other side of the ball where Sheppard is too small and slow to affect even basic guards, much less switches.

Read above.

[BatManu20]

It appears reports of Reed Sheppard's death have been greatly exaggerated.

1896770109949329739

[kxs783kms]

That's what happens when you have a bunch of couch potatoes online who think they are basketball scouts, analysts or NBA coaches lol

[Raven]

now i understand why sga scored 51

[John B]

now i understand why sga scored 51

:lmao

[spursparker9]

shade of john stockton

[rascal]

Castle better

[rankingtear]

It is all ball screens.

[CGD]

Good for him. Suspect he’ll be on the Suns next season where he’ll have more chances

[spurraider21]

It is all ball screens.
pick and roll is the foundation of all offense in the nba right now and the single most common action. john stockton became a legend due to his pick and roll prowess. parker/manu were pick and roll monsters. its what chris paul does.

[ginobilized]

He's finding his footing in the league. No shame in that.
My guess is that he'll bounce around a bit and will end up as a valuable reserve on a good team, it just won't be HOU.

[baseline bum]

Good for him. Suspect he’ll be on the Suns next season where he’ll have more chances

Agreed. I think Phoenix would be smart to get their three picks back plus Sheppard, Whitmore, and matching salary for Booker this summer. Especially if they can get the Rockets to throw Jabari in. Reed's gonna be a good player though.

[spurraider21]

Agreed. I think Phoenix would be smart to get their three picks back plus Sheppard, Whitmore, and matching salary for Booker this summer. Especially if they can get the Rockets to throw Jabari in. Reed's gonna be a good player though.
i know you keep pushing this, but it isn't happening, at least not this year

1896939265046839604

[spurraider21]

also, rockets would need to move FVV to trade for either of durant/booker anyway, so sheppard is somebody they'd probably keep anyway. i think jalen green, cam whitmore, jabari smith would be on the table though

[baseline bum]

i know you keep pushing this, but it isn't happening, at least not this year

1896939265046839604

You don't think it would be smart to trade for their future back? Booker's not gonna lead them anywhere on his own other than the lottery.

[spurraider21]

You don't think it would be smart to trade for their future back? Booker's not gonna lead them anywhere on his own other than the lottery.
what would i do vs what will phoenix do are different questions

they want to rebuild around booker one more time. the paul/bridges/ayton team was good. the durant/beal team was not. i think they'll give it one more go with booker and get what they can for KD from houston. maybe not all their picks back, but some.

[mo7888]

what would i do vs what will phoenix do are different questions

they want to rebuild around booker one more time. the paul/bridges/ayton team was good. the durant/beal team was not. i think they'll give it one more go with booker and get what they can for KD from houston. maybe not all their picks back, but some.

It's march 4th and no trades can happen. They'd be fools to say anything but he's untouchable right now. This summer there's a good chance that reality sets in.

[baseline bum]

what would i do vs what will phoenix do are different questions

they want to rebuild around booker one more time. the paul/bridges/ayton team was good. the durant/beal team was not. i think they'll give it one more go with booker and get what they can for KD from houston. maybe not all their picks back, but some.

OK but you called me out for saying it would be smart to do. I really don't think they're going to get much for Durant, and especially not from Houston who can either get fat off the Phoenix lottery picks or get Booker, both of which are preferable to Durant for them.

[CGD]

also, rockets would need to move FVV to trade for either of durant/booker anyway, so sheppard is somebody they'd probably keep anyway. i think jalen green, cam whitmore, jabari smith would be on the table though

Rockets would idiots to give up anywhere near that much for 37 year old Durant.

[djohn2oo8]

i know you keep pushing this, but it isn't happening, at least not this year

1896939265046839604
I’d laugh my ass off if all this talk and bravado coming from Phoenix and the pick we have from them turns into Flagg with a magical jump to 1.

[spurraider21]

OK but you called me out for saying it would be smart to do. I really don't think they're going to get much for Durant, and especially not from Houston who can either get fat off the Phoenix lottery picks or get Booker, both of which are preferable to Durant for them.
nah, i was disagreeing that this is something that has a chance of occurring this summer

[baseline bum]

nah, i was disagreeing that this is something that has a chance of occurring this summer

With how much a dumpster fire Phoenix has been since the trade deadline they're gonna be gifting Houston a top 10 pick this year and then be even worse when they get lowballed for Durant if they don't act quick before the draft. They have to be thinking about it. I don't care if they're publicly calling Booker untouchable.

[spurraider21]

With how much a dumpster fire Phoenix has been since the trade deadline they're gonna be gifting Houston a top 10 pick this year and then be even worse when they get lowballed for Durant if they don't act quick before the draft. They have to be thinking about it. I don't care if they're publicly calling Booker untouchable.
ill do a sig/avatar bet over booker not getting traded during the offseason

[baseline bum]

ill do a sig/avatar bet over booker not getting traded during the offseason

Not going that far. I'm not going to have a Trump/Elon sig/avatar for a year just because Ishbia stays stubborn :lol

[TD 21]

Agreed. I think Phoenix would be smart to get their three picks back plus Sheppard, Whitmore, and matching salary for Booker this summer. Especially if they can get the Rockets to throw Jabari in. Reed's gonna be a good player though.

My sense is if/when Booker to the Rockets happens, Green (poor man's Booker who'd have no role with the genuine article around and pseudo star who'd be an easy sell to casuals) will be involved along with probably Smith Jr.

[spurraider21]

Not going that far. I'm not going to have a Trump/Elon sig/avatar for a year just because Ishbia stays stubborn :lol
:lol you thought i'd go that easy on ya?

[baseline bum]

:lol you thought i'd go that easy on ya?

Could do like the one I made Deadly rock, with a Quanell X avatar and a Godvine sig. He made lemonade though when he got us to all troll Godvines prayer requests. :lol

[djohn2oo8]

ill do a sig/avatar bet over booker not getting traded during the offseason
No matter what they get for Durant, it won’t be as much as they could get back for Booker.

[ambchang]

I have no idea why booker is such a hot commodity. He’s a front running loud mouth who has shown time and again he’s empty calories. Great on offense, until the pressure is on and he starts to suck. Doesn’t matter though, because he gives back on the other end what he gives on offense.

[Ice009]

Do the Rockets want Booker?

I would not give back Phoenix those picks for Booker. I'd much rather keep them. I don't think Booker can lead the Suns anywhere. Do you guys think the Suns can be a playoff team if they can retool around Booker? He didn't show anything until CP3 got there. Maybe he's matured enough now to lead a team, but he was empty calories like Ambchang said before they got CP3 and those role players around him.

What do you think Djohn2008? Would you want to give Phoenix back all those picks for Booker? I guess you're more of a win now team so developing draft picks might not be what the Rockets want, but I'd rather use those picks and then trade off guys like Green to get more picks.

[baseline bum]

I have no idea why booker is such a hot commodity. He’s a front running loud mouth who has shown time and again he’s empty calories. Great on offense, until the pressure is on and he starts to suck. Doesn’t matter though, because he gives back on the other end what he gives on offense.

Thought he was pretty great in the 21 Finals.

[spurraider21]

No matter what they get for Durant, it won’t be as much as they could get back for Booker.
obviously

[spurraider21]

Thought he was pretty great in the 21 Finals.
was also very good defensively in the olympics

[djohn2oo8]

Do the Rockets want Booker?

I would not give back Phoenix those picks for Booker. I'd much rather keep them. I don't think Booker can lead the Suns anywhere. Do you guys think the Suns can be a playoff team if they can retool around Booker? He didn't show anything until CP3 got there. Maybe he's matured enough now to lead a team, but he was empty calories like Ambchang said before they got CP3 and those role players around him.

What do you think Djohn2008? Would you want to give Phoenix back all those picks for Booker? I guess you're more of a win now team so developing draft picks might not be what the Rockets want, but I'd rather use those picks and then trade off guys like Green to get more picks.

Seeing as the Suns are now down 16 to the Clippers, they have a tough schedule coming up and that pick could be in the top 8. Im fine if they don’t want to give up Booker. They can continue to implode. But the Rox will go hunting for a star at that position or at SF.

[Mr. Body]

Booker was nothing before Chris Paul, is nothing after Chris Paul.

[dn0774]

was also very good defensively in the olympics

His role in the Olympics was awesome, probably had the best tourny after Lebron for Team USA. Suns should try to build a role for him in that mold with a bit more shooting/finishing plays rather than trying to make him Luka lite.

[ambchang]

Thought he was pretty great in the 21 Finals.

Maybe it was just me but I remembered him being inefficient in that series and it was actually Chris Paul who got the suns going on offence. Will have to look it up.

In fact, my opinion of him being an empty calories guy is because of that series, or at least mainly because of it.

[cd98]

Sheppard would be awesome on this team. Wemby gets guys like him open looks. Don't get me wrong, Castle does everything great except his outside shooting is a work in process. But I have no doubt that if Reed were on this team, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation and would have spent zero time in the G-League. And I'd also probably bet the Spurs would have taken Reed over Castle. That said, I love Castle so I'm glad things worked out as they did.

[mo7888]

Sheppard would be awesome on this team. Wemby gets guys like him open looks. Don't get me wrong, Castle does everything great except his outside shooting is a work in process. But I have no doubt that if Reed were on this team, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation and would have spent zero time in the G-League. And I'd also probably bet the Spurs would have taken Reed over Castle. That said, I love Castle so I'm glad things worked out as they did.

I wouldn't go that far (roty race), but ive always thought he'd be a great fit next to Castle in the back court.

[spurraider21]

Reed would have gotten less minutes w/ the Spurs than Castle did. Castle has found time playing the 2 as well as the 3 for many of his minutes. Pop does love his undersized shooters (probalby would have seen a lot of Paul/Sheppard minutes), but Castle's versatility has gotten him on the floor in ways sheppard wouldnt have

i also unapologetically had Sheppard above Castle on my board. but i also viewed Sheppard as a point guard and Castle as a wing. with Paul and now Fox, sheppard's impact would never have been as much as castle's has been here

[paperboy77]

Sheppard would be awesome on this team. Wemby gets guys like him open looks. Don't get me wrong, Castle does everything great except his outside shooting is a work in process. But I have no doubt that if Reed were on this team, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation and would have spent zero time in the G-League. And I'd also probably bet the Spurs would have taken Reed over Castle. That said, I love Castle so I'm glad things worked out as they did.

You being sarcastic? Only thing you got right was that Brian Wrong would have picked Reed over Castle.

[exstatic]

You being sarcastic? Only thing you got right was that Brian Wrong would have picked Reed over Castle.

Right. Is that why we had an embedded scout at UConn all season?

[baseline bum]

Maybe it was just me but I remembered him being inefficient in that series and it was actually Chris Paul who got the suns going on offence. Will have to look it up.

In fact, my opinion of him being an empty calories guy is because of that series, or at least mainly because of it.

CP3 was great until like Game 4 where he fell apart IIRC. Thought he might have been injured or something because he was truly awful in that game, which Booker managed to keep Phoenix in until the end with like 41 points.

[Mr. Body]

Sheppard would be awesome on this team. Wemby gets guys like him open looks. Don't get me wrong, Castle does everything great except his outside shooting is a work in process. But I have no doubt that if Reed were on this team, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation and would have spent zero time in the G-League. And I'd also probably bet the Spurs would have taken Reed over Castle. That said, I love Castle so I'm glad things worked out as they did.

Sheppard doesn't have the speed or stature to be a good defender. He also doesn't really create much on offense. You'd be seeing a guy stuck in the wing or the corner and who constantly gets burned or bumped to pieces by even moderate sized guards driving on him.

[cd98]

Oh I think Reed can be an adequate defender in the NBA. Not Castle, but he can be good. He's a good ball handler, has some good passing instincts, and he can shoot really well. What is the biggest weakness on our roster? Three point shooting. He would be getting 25 minutes a game at least on our roster, just like Castle. And he would get great looks playing with Paul and Wemby. Again, I'm not saying I prefer him over Castle, but it can't be overstated the difference between going to a team, like the Spurs, who would find him minutes, and a team, like the Rockets, loaded at his position. If he got consistent minutes in the NBA, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation, I stand by that. He's a good player. He just went a team that doesn't really need him because they got good players to play in front of him.

Though I would concede that after the Fox trade, it would be harder for him to get minutes because I still think he has to make his mark as a PG in this league and Castle can really play 3 positions.

[dn0774]

Oh I think Reed can be an adequate defender in the NBA. Not Castle, but he can be good. He's a good ball handler, has some good passing instincts, and he can shoot really well. What is the biggest weakness on our roster? Three point shooting. He would be getting 25 minutes a game at least on our roster, just like Castle. And he would get great looks playing with Paul and Wemby. Again, I'm not saying I prefer him over Castle, but it can't be overstated the difference between going to a team, like the Spurs, who would find him minutes, and a team, like the Rockets, loaded at his position. If he got consistent minutes in the NBA, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation, I stand by that. He's a good player. He just went a team that doesn't really need him because they got good players to play in front of him.

Though I would concede that after the Fox trade, it would be harder for him to get minutes because I still think he has to make his mark as a PG in this league and Castle can really play 3 positions.

He is going to be hunted mercilessly. He doesn't even play enough right now to really be on opponents scouting reports but once he is it will get ugly. Shai casually put 20 points on him in the 1st quarter the other night when Reed started, granted that is Shai. I do agree with the theory that he could be a good steals guy and has solid hands defensively. I just think in terms of getting switched onto bigger/longer players it will get ugly and once the film is out there every team will attack that. That is probably why Ime has played Reed so sparingly.

[cd98]

He is going to be hunted mercilessly. He doesn't even play enough right now to really be on opponents scouting reports but once he is it will get ugly. Shai casually put 20 points on him in the 1st quarter the other night when Reed started, granted that is Shai. I do agree with the theory that he could be a good steals guy and has solid hands defensively. I just think in terms of getting switched onto bigger/longer players it will get ugly and once the film is out there every team will attack that. That is probably why Ime has played Reed so sparingly.

Oh you mean Shai, the best scorer in the league this year put up 20 points on him? Shai can score on anyone in the league. Switches will be a problem for Fox. Switches are a problem for every team in the league. Switches are less of a problem for the Spurs because they have Wemby.

[ambchang]

CP3 was great until like Game 4 where he fell apart IIRC. Thought he might have been injured or something because he was truly awful in that game, which Booker managed to keep Phoenix in until the end with like 41 points.

I looked it up, Booker had back to back 40 point games (42 in Game 4, 40 in Game 5), both losses. I recalled thinking that his big games don't do anything, which probably wasn't fair to him, but oh well.

In the 6 games, he had +/- of +18, +10, -13, 0, +12 and -15, so he wasn't as bad as I remembered, but when I watched the game, I just thought his good games don't lead the team anywhere, it was CP who does that work and when CP3 sat, the team was rudderless. For the series, he had an ORtg of 104 (?!!?!) and DRtg of 121, TS% of only 53.8%, and a very high usage rate of 33.5%.

Honestly, I likely over-exaggerated his 2nd banananess in my mind, but I won't classify him as one of those players who stepped up or clearly led the team when the team needed him the most.

[baseline bum]

I looked it up, Booker had back to back 40 point games (42 in Game 4, 40 in Game 5), both losses. I recalled thinking that his big games don't do anything, which probably wasn't fair to him, but oh well.

In the 6 games, he had +/- of +18, +10, -13, 0, +12 and -15, so he wasn't as bad as I remembered, but when I watched the game, I just thought his good games don't lead the team anywhere, it was CP who does that work and when CP3 sat, the team was rudderless. For the series, he had an ORtg of 104 (?!!?!) and DRtg of 121, TS% of only 53.8%, and a very high usage rate of 33.5%.

Honestly, I likely over-exaggerated his 2nd banananess in my mind, but I won't classify him as one of those players who stepped up or clearly led the team when the team needed him the most.

Guess my biggest memory of the series was Game 4 where CP3 looked injured or something, as he was playing so bad. I remember him being a monster in the early series though. But yeah I didn't remember Booker being too memorable in the clinching game.

[KobesAchilles]

I’m glad the Rockets ended up agreeing with me and chose Reed over Castle. I was a fool to doubt him in the summer. Luckily I changed my view on him my first time seeing him live in the preseason.

Also, I always thought Booker was the Western Conference version of Beal. A guy who takes all the shots, gets you 25 a game, plays zero defense, makes nobody else on their team better and is good enough to trick teams into thinking they are players to lift a franchise. That’s why I thought it was hilarious when the Suns actually traded for Beal. I was like why don’t want two Bradley Beals? :lol

If I were the Suns I would trade Booker to the Rockets for all their picks back and pick swaps from Houston. And then trade Durant to the Lakers for 2 FRPs. Franchise would be way better off that way

[dn0774]

Oh you mean Shai, the best scorer in the league this year put up 20 points on him? Shai can score on anyone in the league. Switches will be a problem for Fox. Switches are a problem for every team in the league. Switches are less of a problem for the Spurs because they have Wemby.

Yea, in a quarter.

Fox will of course have his issues at times, but the athletic difference between Sheppard and Fox is massive. Reed also has significantly shorter wingspan and standing reach...rough comp. Fox physically looks like he belongs on an NBA court, Sheppard looks like the 14 year old that snuck into the gym with grown men playing pickup ball.

[Mr. Body]

Oh I think Reed can be an adequate defender in the NBA. Not Castle, but he can be good. He's a good ball handler, has some good passing instincts, and he can shoot really well. What is the biggest weakness on our roster? Three point shooting. He would be getting 25 minutes a game at least on our roster, just like Castle. And he would get great looks playing with Paul and Wemby. Again, I'm not saying I prefer him over Castle, but it can't be overstated the difference between going to a team, like the Spurs, who would find him minutes, and a team, like the Rockets, loaded at his position. If he got consistent minutes in the NBA, he'd be in the rookie of the year conversation, I stand by that. He's a good player. He just went a team that doesn't really need him because they got good players to play in front of him.

Though I would concede that after the Fox trade, it would be harder for him to get minutes because I still think he has to make his mark as a PG in this league and Castle can really play 3 positions.

He might improve and definitely will, really. But I have to push back: he's not a good ball-handler. He does well if he can do that toy car, pull back ten feet and start with a head of steam thing, but he's not great. Will get better. On defense, his hands are excellent. He can't stay in front of a lot of players and dies on screens, things that happened even in college. Like Malaki Branham dies-on-screens bad. The real issue is that nearly everyone in the league, even guards, towers over him. If he has to put a body on anybody he just can't, so gets ragdolled when driven on. That's were his hands save him on drives sometimes, but otherwise he's hopeless there.

[rankingtear]

He needs a lot of favorable conditions to get his shot off.

[cd98]

In fairness, he got his shot off well against one of the best defensive teams in the NBA. I don't know his ceiling. That's a wait and see. But the idea that he is too small to play in the NBA is just silly. There are plenty of bad defenders in the NBA that get "hunted" and they still do fine. Nash was a horrible defender. So was Tony Parker. Both are HOF players and Nash was an MVP. Trae Young can't defend dirt and he leads the league in assists and is single-handedly screwing up our 2nd lottery pick. The scouting report on Reed is that he is a pretty good defender. I think he'll be fine. I mean Payton Pritchard is averaging 13 points a game and getting his shot off and doing just fine with the Celtics and he doesn't have the same skills that Reed has. I'm sure Reed will be just fine.

[Mr. Body]

My problem with Sheppard isn't just that he's small and scrawny, it's that he also has no quickness on defense. I consistently called Dillingham a better potential defender when I watched them in college. Dillingham is a terrible defender, but he has quickness, Sheppard is in mud. So not only can he not body a player trying to get to the rim, he gets blown by and a screen can just destroy him.

During their marvelous upset against Oakland in the first round last year, they were getting destroyed by this aging dentist-looking dork named Gohlke who was raining these movement threes all over them. Dillingham got a lot of flak for that game, but was actually trying to bring them back -- and hit a bomb cutting it to like four or something with about a minute left to go, then never saw the ball again.

Sheppard was nowhere to be seen that game. But what stood out to me was that he had no prayer with Gohlke, who looked like the Incredible Hulk next to him. Couldn't keep up with him at all, and this was no athlete. Dillingham could keep up with him, and did, to an extent, because he could get around screens and chase him. Now, Dillingham still did bizarre shit. My favorite was that he doubled the post off of Gohlke, who was wrecking them, leaving him open for a three point bomb. Just stupid stuff. But I still think Dillingham has a shot at being overall better if he learns what defense is.

That said, Sheppard does have absolutely fantastic hands. And he does understand defensive concepts so is pretty much in the right places for rotations and rebounds.

[Mr. Body]

And Reed has the ability to turn in these shockingly phenomenal games. One was against Mississippi State (I think) last year. Another was one of the Summer League games. That OKC game looked like one of them. (Tbh, watching a bit, it felt like the Thunder were mailing it in against an undermanned/injured Rockets team and were never threatened.)

But those games where Sheppard detonates and fills up the stat sheet everywhere. In college it happened like twice. That MS St game, some people put him immediately as their top pick because of it. If he's able to figure out how to do that more often, that's one thing.

[cd98]

Time will tell. But all these things have been said about great players. Nash, a two time league MVP started his career as a third string point guard behind KJ and Jason Kidd. He was slow but a good passer and shooter. He was short and couldn’t guard anyone. And he became a two time league MVP. But if you just went by his measurements, he shouldn’t even have been in the league according to these arguments.

[spurraider21]

My problem with Sheppard isn't just that he's small and scrawny, it's that he also has no quickness on defense. I consistently called Dillingham a better potential defender when I watched them in college. Dillingham is a terrible defender, but he has quickness, Sheppard is in mud. So not only can he not body a player trying to get to the rim, he gets blown by and a screen can just destroy him.

During their marvelous upset against Oakland in the first round last year, they were getting destroyed by this aging dentist-looking dork named Gohlke who was raining these movement threes all over them. Dillingham got a lot of flak for that game, but was actually trying to bring them back -- and hit a bomb cutting it to like four or something with about a minute left to go, then never saw the ball again.

Sheppard was nowhere to be seen that game. But what stood out to me was that he had no prayer with Gohlke, who looked like the Incredible Hulk next to him. Couldn't keep up with him at all, and this was no athlete. Dillingham could keep up with him, and did, to an extent, because he could get around screens and chase him. Now, Dillingham still did bizarre shit. My favorite was that he doubled the post off of Gohlke, who was wrecking them, leaving him open for a three point bomb. Just stupid stuff. But I still think Dillingham has a shot at being overall better if he learns what defense is.

That said, Sheppard does have absolutely fantastic hands. And he does understand defensive concepts so is pretty much in the right places for rotations and rebounds.
this is why my evaluation of sheppard came down to whether i believed he was going to be a slightly undersized point guard or a woefully undersized shooting guard

as a point guard, the size issue isnt quite as big a deal, and i figured his knack for defensive playmaking and his active hands would make him good enough at that end while providing efficient offense on the other end

as a shooting guard, i was out on him