Sheed and Bonzi: KG is better than TD!

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGwt96Thzug

Apparently, TD had too much help. Playing with hall of famer D-Rob, veterans, Manu, Tony etc. And Timmy stayed on 1 team.

:lol

[Russo21]

Sheed obviously salty Duncan took a championship off him.

So funny how a 29th pick little Frenchie and a 57th pick? Argentinian who any other franchise could have taken is considered too much help?

2003 especially was a 2nd year Frenchmen getting benched for Craig Claxton lol who, Manu 6th man, Robinson an old dude who had already announced his retirement. Bowen a SF who can't dribble, can't pass, can't do anything but defend

Sheed obviously so bitter Duncan took the 2005 championship right out of his hands.

Only all time greats make average help seem all time help

[TD 21]

Translation: Duncan doesn't fit their narrow minded definition of blackness.

[LeBowen]

Watching all these former players try so hard to push their agendas wherever they can and then watching Timmy joke around with RJ puts things into perspective.
Who cares what people say? Accolades speak for themselves.

[Leetonidas]

Sheed and Bonzi staying butthurt I see. 2005/2006 was a long time ago, let it go y'all. KG is the Walmart version of Tim

[Robz4000]

Sheed obviously salty Duncan took a championship off him.

So funny how a 29th pick little Frenchie and a 57th pick? Argentinian who any other franchise could have taken is considered too much help?

2003 especially was a 2nd year Frenchmen getting benched for Craig Claxton lol who, Manu 6th man, Robinson an old dude who had already announced his retirement. Bowen a SF who can't dribble, can't pass, can't do anything but defend

Sheed obviously so bitter Duncan took the 2005 championship right out of his hands.

Only all time greats make average help seem all time help


Sheed and Bonzi staying butthurt I see. 2005/2006 was a long time ago, let it go y'all. KG is the Walmart version of Tim

:lol can't forget Sheed getting skunked by Duncan and the Spurs on the 99 run when he was with Portland too

[rjv]

Sheed didn’t age well at all. He sounds punch drunk.

[widowmaker]

Yeah Duncan aint black enough.

[benefactor]

It's a shame Sheed is so Sheed...because he's one of the most talented players ever. Right up there with all the great bigs. He could have been a champion several times over if his head was actually on straight.

[daslicer]

Translation: Duncan doesn't fit their narrow minded definition of blackness.

Basically, Duncan is not someone they would hang out with at the club and hence that's why they picked KG over him. It's the reason why I never take these current and former players seriously when it comes to their assessments of other players because it's based on whether they like that player as a person.

[Rosewood]

KG was undoubtedly in a worst situation than TD.

Having said that, if Spurs had KG and Wolves had TD - we’d have no chips and Wolves would have multiple.

Really fucks me up how TD is considered to having all this great help, when players like Kobe and Magic had fellow Top 10 big men. Like Lebron and Jordan, TD elevates roleplayers. That’s what true all time greats do.

Sheed sounds and looks like he’s smoking crack.

[Gandalf]

Objectively, Duncan was better; as others have said, his T-Wolves teams would have been better with him than KG. KG only managed one ring with a ‘super team,’ correct? Him, and Pierce, and Ray Allen, and (then-good) Rondo, along with several other good role players.

Subjectively, Rasheed is biased and not someone whose opinion on the matter you should trust; he’s bitter Duncan deprived Rasheed of at least one (Spurs best Pistons) and probably two (Spurs beat Blazers) championships. Bonzi probably feels the same way, but I barely remember him.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sheed and Bonzi smoking the wrong za

[lefty20]

Sheed also thought it was a good idea to leave Horry open, tbh.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Why would anyone care what these weedheads think.

Tbh, Duncan being super low key works against his legacy but this goes way beyond the ordinary under appreciation. If he’s fine and cool with it then so should we. He’ll always get pushed down a few spots on the all time lists. Same will happen to Jokic eventually.

[GAustex]

Translation: Duncan doesn't fit their narrow minded definition of blackness.

This

[GAustex]

2 knuckleheads propping up another knucklehead over HOF top 10 or higher all timer.

[MultiTroll]

We should have seen a Tim Dunker vs KG playoff series.

Critical Game 4 MN vs Lakers 2003.
MN up 2-1, can send the Lakers packing.

Kobme Bryant 7-25 with 17 FTAs.
MN still lead the entire game until it was thrown to the Lakers in the 4th.

It was as rigged as the 2002 Kings game.

[jesterbobman]

(Don't yell at me too badly)...

There are smart people (e.g, Ben Taylor of thinking Basketball) who have KG above TD all time as a player in their prime, as his mobility on defense was better (not as good at the rim), he was a better shooter in general (though, not as good of a post player). There are things that KG was better than Tim at, and if they played in the current era of pace and space, and you anticipate a movement of KG out to the 3 point line rather than his 20 foot jumpers, I'd rather have KG over Tim.

I have TD above (primacy of rim protection, willingness to play as a 5 so the Spurs could access the lineups with Horry / Bonner which were +/- monsters), but I don't think it's outlandish to think KG was better as a player.

A lot of the difference comes down to accomplishments, and soft things like Tim's ability to mold his game over time and fit into different offensive roles, and adapt as a leader that kept the team together. Those leadership skills / intangibles are incredibly valuable as a franchise player.

[RC_Drunkford]

KG: 1 ring as 3rd option

TD: 4 rings as 1st option, 1 ring as 2nd best player on the team

this is like saying Harden is better than LeBron :lol

[TD 21]

(Don't yell at me too badly)...

There are smart people (e.g, Ben Taylor of thinking Basketball) who have KG above TD all time as a player in their prime, as his mobility on defense was better (not as good at the rim), he was a better shooter in general (though, not as good of a post player). There are things that KG was better than Tim at, and if they played in the current era of pace and space, and you anticipate a movement of KG out to the 3 point line rather than his 20 foot jumpers, I'd rather have KG over Tim.

I have TD above (primacy of rim protection, willingness to play as a 5 so the Spurs could access the lineups with Horry / Bonner which were +/- monsters), but I don't think it's outlandish to think KG was better as a player.

A lot of the difference comes down to accomplishments, and soft things like Tim's ability to mold his game over time and fit into different offensive roles, and adapt as a leader that kept the team together. Those leadership skills / intangibles are incredibly valuable as a franchise player.

1. Being white, wearing glasses, speaking in a monotone voice and using advanced metrics doesn't make you "smart".

2. Era adjusting, which has become popular with comparisons, is foolish. We can only judge them within' the context of the era they played in and Duncan's superior rim protection, post defense and low post scoring made him more valuable.

The latter, in particular, led to being the most valuable thing in the sport, which was the hub of a championship offense, in a way Garnett's jump shooting never could.

It's the same reason why Olajuwon was better than Robinson and there's a wider gap between the peak "catch-all" metrics between them.

[Knoxxx]

Whose “KG”??

[TDMVPDPOY]

KG was undoubtedly in a worst situation than TD.

Having said that, if Spurs had KG and Wolves had TD - we’d have no chips and Wolves would have multiple.

Really fucks me up how TD is considered to having all this great help, when players like Kobe and Magic had fellow Top 10 big men. Like Lebron and Jordan, TD elevates roleplayers. That’s what true all time greats do.

Sheed sounds and looks like he’s smoking crack.

what worse situation you talking about? he fkn was earning like 6/10 of the wolves salary cap, cant build shit if ur franchise player aint taking paycuts,

rasho won 2 rings with td, but couldnt win shit in minne with that pos

[ambchang]

(Don't yell at me too badly)...

There are smart people (e.g, Ben Taylor of thinking Basketball) who have KG above TD all time as a player in their prime, as his mobility on defense was better (not as good at the rim), he was a better shooter in general (though, not as good of a post player). There are things that KG was better than Tim at, and if they played in the current era of pace and space, and you anticipate a movement of KG out to the 3 point line rather than his 20 foot jumpers, I'd rather have KG over Tim.

I have TD above (primacy of rim protection, willingness to play as a 5 so the Spurs could access the lineups with Horry / Bonner which were +/- monsters), but I don't think it's outlandish to think KG was better as a player.

A lot of the difference comes down to accomplishments, and soft things like Tim's ability to mold his game over time and fit into different offensive roles, and adapt as a leader that kept the team together. Those leadership skills / intangibles are incredibly valuable as a franchise player.

I love watching thinking basketball but the heavy reliance of +/- was the general basis for having KG over duncan. It could be due to multiple things. The bench players was worse for KG than for Duncan, the entire system designed to be around only one player.

Defence wise duncan and KG were equal in my eyes. KG was more versatile but duncan was more impactful in those days due to the general styles.

KG also didn’t have the low post game required in those days while duncan was a master.

Finally, in terms of leadership KG just isn’t on the same level as Duncan.

[scott]

Sheed a multiple time recipient of Duncan sending his ass on vacation. Obviously he's not gotten over it.

[Dhbsr555]

Sheed obviously salty Duncan took a championship off him.

So funny how a 29th pick little Frenchie and a 57th pick? Argentinian who any other franchise could have taken is considered too much help?

2003 especially was a 2nd year Frenchmen getting benched for Craig Claxton lol who, Manu 6th man, Robinson an old dude who had already announced his retirement. Bowen a SF who can't dribble, can't pass, can't do anything but defend

Sheed obviously so bitter Duncan took the 2005 championship right out of his hands.

Only all time greats make average help seem all time help
Try two lol

[Russo21]

Try two lol Oh yeah I forgot to mention Duncans Spurs swept Sheed's Blazers in 99 also. Good stuff! Dude is way salty

[exstatic]

Sheed didn’t age well at all. He sounds punch drunk.

Prolly stoned. His rep was 4:20/24/7.

lol, Jailblazers.

[exstatic]

KG was undoubtedly in a worst situation than TD.

Having said that, if Spurs had KG and Wolves had TD - we’d have no chips and Wolves would have multiple.

Really fucks me up how TD is considered to having all this great help, when players like Kobe and Magic had fellow Top 10 big men. Like Lebron and Jordan, TD elevates roleplayers. That’s what true all time greats do.

Sheed sounds and looks like he’s smoking crack.

I still haven’t seen one player in my time following the NBA since 81,who did what Duncan did in 2002-2003, literally take a team with no stars, put them on his back, and drag them to a title. DRob was done, Manu played 2/3 of a season, and Tony was still a little French kid who couldn’t shoot his way out of a wet paper bag.

[venitian navigator]

I still haven’t seen one player in my time following the NBA since 81,who did what Duncan did in 2002-2003, literally take a team with no stars, put them on his back, and drag them to a title. DRob was done, Manu played 2/3 of a season, and Tony was still a little French kid who couldn’t shoot his way out of a wet paper bag.

agree

[SupremeGuy]

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/tim_duncan_vs_kevin_garnett.htm

Pretty fucking clear tbh.

[SupremeGuy]

I still haven’t seen one player in my time following the NBA since 81,who did what Duncan did in 2002-2003, literally take a team with no stars, put them on his back, and drag them to a title. DRob was done, Manu played 2/3 of a season, and Tony was still a little French kid who couldn’t shoot his way out of a wet paper bag.What's even crazier is that if certain miracle shots don't go in, if Manu doesn't foul, if Manu doesn't break his arm, etc. We're looking at 7 or 8. Shit happens though.

[Ice009]

KG was undoubtedly in a worst situation than TD.

Having said that, if Spurs had KG and Wolves had TD - we’d have no chips and Wolves would have multiple.

Really fucks me up how TD is considered to having all this great help, when players like Kobe and Magic had fellow Top 10 big men. Like Lebron and Jordan, TD elevates roleplayers. That’s what true all time greats do.

Sheed sounds and looks like he’s smoking crack.

I was going to post something similar to what you said. Magic Johnsons teams were overloaded with talent, The 80's Celtics had a decent amount of talent. How much help did Kobe have? He had all-star teammates who are considered higher on the food chain (Shaq, Gasol) than anyone TD had (DRob was nowhere near his prime when TD played with him. Not sure if you guys would rate Gasol higher than Manu all-time?). MJ had Pippen. Lebron can't win shit without a stacked team. If you compare all these teams that won multiple championships, the Spurs teams TD lead to Championships may have had less talent overall than most of these multiple time championship teams (I didn't want to mention the Warriors cause, well, fuck them). Sheed is a straight up hater.

Anyway, I just wanted to reiterate my main point that I was going to post. If you put KG on those same Spurs teams, the Spurs would have zero rings. Tim was put in a good situation to start with, but lets not act like he wasn't THE main reason the Spurs won. TD was by far the main reason we won all those rings. Fucking joker Rasheed is. Just because you don't like TD or want to hang with him, doesn't mean he isn't better than your sorry wasted talent ass.


KG: 1 ring as 3rd option

TD: 4 rings as 1st option, 1 ring as 2nd best player on the team

this is like saying Harden is better than LeBron :lol

I will say, though, that during the playoffs, he was the Spurs' best player overall for the whole playoffs. Kawhi was only the best during the finals series. During the regular sesaon, though, you're right, he conceded being the first option.


I love watching thinking basketball but the heavy reliance of +/- was the general basis for having KG over duncan. It could be due to multiple things. The bench players was worse for KG than for Duncan, the entire system designed to be around only one player.

Defence wise duncan and KG were equal in my eyes. KG was more versatile but duncan was more impactful in those days due to the general styles.

KG also didn’t have the low post game required in those days while duncan was a master.

Finally, in terms of leadership KG just isn’t on the same level as Duncan.

Tim was a superior leader to most of these guys. He might not have had the talent as some of these guys, but he was a superior leader to 95% of them.


Sheed a multiple time recipient of Duncan sending his ass on vacation. Obviously he's not gotten over it.

Does Rasheed not realize TD's leadership played a big part in elevating those guys that Rasheed is talking about?

[SpursBills]

Dirk vs KG probably a more interesting debate tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

I will say, though, that during the playoffs, he was the Spurs' best player overall for the whole playoffs. Kawhi was only the best during the finals series. During the regular sesaon, though, you're right, he conceded being the first option.


I agree. Parker was basically first option on offense with Duncan second although Duncan was also the defensive anchor, so technically one could still say he was the best player on the team at that time.

[Spursfanfromafar]

At KG's prime.. he was threatening to become the best PF but even then he was a step behind TD in terms of leadership and overall contributions on the court. Playing with a manic attitude helped him personally but I dont think it helped team building. KG is himself on record saying that guys like Rasho Nesterovic wanted to play with TD and did better than he did when he played for the Wolves. That is what separates the all-time greats from the greats - the ability to make your supporting cast and your team much better.

To the folks who said that TD was lucky to play in just one team.. the fact that the Spurs have won all their championships with TD in it and they have been only rebuilding since he left in 2016, suggests how important Duncan was to them. Apart from MJ and since MJ, I think the only player who was crucial to every one of their team's multiple championship rings was Duncan. Even LeBron James had more help than TD ever had.

I give two hoots to what Bonzi Wells says. He was a knucklehead who washed out of the league quickly and was a prime exemplar of the failure of the Jailblazers. Rasheed Wallace, also was. But he had much more talent and could defend TD well on a good day and give him problems. But his career also shows how TD's characteristics are helpful in winning championships. If Wallace had half of TD's calm and half of his competitive spirit, he would have bottled up his knuckleheadedness and battled more. But it was not to be.

Duncan's character, his leadership, his ability to inspire and motivate his teammates through quiet actions and encouragement and his ability to allow himself to be coached and give leeway to the coach... which help Pop change philosophies in TD's late career... all these helped him five championships and become one of the winningest and most consistent players ever. Even now, TD's mere presence around the Spurs is helping shape the career of another legend in the making in Wemby.

[exstatic]

Dirk vs KG probably a more interesting debate tbh

Dirk led his team to a title without running to join forces.

[offset formation]

Duncan was a team player. If he'd have been the only team scorer, he would have been much more dominant. And the fact that he played within that team concept, took less money, deferred to Tony often times, etc, was part of his greatness. The Beautiful Game existed only because an all-time top 5 let it happen. Pretty pathetic takes from Sheed and Bonzi

[Ice009]

At KG's prime.. he was threatening to become the best PF but even then he was a step behind TD in terms of leadership and overall contributions on the court. Playing with a manic attitude helped him personally but I dont think it helped team building. KG is himself on record saying that guys like Rasho Nesterovic wanted to play with TD and did better than he did when he played for the Wolves. That is what separates the all-time greats from the greats - the ability to make your supporting cast and your team much better.

To the folks who said that TD was lucky to play in just one team.. the fact that the Spurs have won all their championships with TD in it and they have been only rebuilding since he left in 2016, suggests how important Duncan was to them. Apart from MJ and since MJ, I think the only player who was crucial to every one of their team's multiple championship rings was Duncan. Even LeBron James had more help than TD ever had.

I give two hoots to what Bonzi Wells says. He was a knucklehead who washed out of the league quickly and was a prime exemplar of the failure of the Jailblazers. Rasheed Wallace, also was. But he had much more talent and could defend TD well on a good day and give him problems. But his career also shows how TD's characteristics are helpful in winning championships. If Wallace had half of TD's calm and half of his competitive spirit, he would have bottled up his knuckleheadedness and battled more. But it was not to be.

Duncan's character, his leadership, his ability to inspire and motivate his teammates through quiet actions and encouragement and his ability to allow himself to be coached and give leeway to the coach... which help Pop change philosophies in TD's late career... all these helped him five championships and become one of the winningest and most consistent players ever. Even now, TD's mere presence around the Spurs is helping shape the career of another legend in the making in Wemby.

Beautifully said. 100% spot on.

[z0sa]

(99, 05) Version of "It Still Hurts"

[Tyronn Lue]

Why all the talk about race in this thread? This has nothing to do with race. It's about prime vs career. It's not close in career. In prime, KG was a beast. Sheed thinks year 1 is prime. Prime TD wasn't until 2003ish.

[scott]

(99, 05) Version of "It Still Hurts"

For real. If 0.4 and 6 had been delivered to us by the same team, I'd have an internal hatred for that team's greatest player too.

Shit, Sheed's lucky that 0.4 happened, otherwise we make to finals and probably deny him his only 'chip.