Devin Carter - From Second Round to Potential Lottery

[BackHome]

Ok, my 8th round Dark Horse is Devin Carter:

PG/SG
Height: 6-foot-2 2.5" - Without Shoes
Wing Span: 6-foot - 8 .75"
Standing Reach - 8.2

* Set the NBA combine record with fastest 3/4 Sprint Time - 42 inch Vertical Jump, Pro Lane agility he tied with 3rd place
* Father is NBA Anthony Carter

South Carolina 2022 - 3 Ball-.267, FT# -.688
Providence 2023 - 3 Ball -.299, FT# - .720
Providence 2024 - 3 Ball -.377, FT# - .749, Steals- 1.8, Blocks - 1.0, Rebound 8.7 :wow

A very good defender who is an elite rebounder for his position and someone who can lock down 1's and guard 2's - Gives you another ball handler whose outside shooting has improved every year in college. The thing I like about him is that he just wants to win it's not about his numbers it's about getting steal, blocks, rebounds, doing all the little things to get your team the W...

[R. DeMurre]

I've always thought that if Jose Alvarado were a bit taller and longer that he'd be deadly, and that's kinda what Devin Carter is-- a taller longer Alvarado. He's 2" taller with an extra 7"+ of wingspan.

I think Carter provokes an interesting draft philosophy question: if you have Wembanyama and Vassell, does it make sense to use the 8th pick to grab a potentially great 6th man? If you think the 4th pick is a future starter and another starter can eventually be had though trades or free agency, the idea of a top notch 6th man could be very valuable. Alvarado's advanced stats and +/- are elite, and Carter's could be even better.

[BatManu20]

8 still seems high for Carter to me. I think he’s a solid prospect, particularly on defense, but that’s a little rich for my blood personally. His slow-release jumper still looks weird to me too, and I’m wondering if his 3-point shooting this year will hold up or if it was a flash in the pan since it was his only season shooting above 30% from 3 in college.

[daslicer]

8 still seems high for Carter to me. I think he’s a solid prospect, particularly on defense, but that’s a little rich for my blood personally. His slow-release jumper still looks weird to me too. I’m wondering if his 3-point shooting this year will hold up or if it was a flash in the pan since it was his only years shooting above 30% from 3 in college.

His father had a terrible jump shot. I still remember during the '03-'04 season when his dad was playing for the Spurs and how I would cringe every time his dad took a jump shot.

[LeBowen]

8 still seems high for Carter to me. I think he’s a solid prospect, particularly on defense, but that’s a little rich for my blood personally. His slow-release jumper still looks weird to me too, and I’m wondering if his 3-point shooting this year will hold up or if it was a flash in the pan since it was his only season shooting above 30% from 3 in college.

It's a tough choice to make, tbh.
Sometimes I feel like modern scouting and analytics undervalue older players too much.
Carter just turned 22. He's older, but it's not like he can't improve on his deficiencies.
We've seen NBA veterans change their game after they turn 30 in order to stay in the league.

Derrick was already 23 when he got drafted and many teams passed on him because of his age.
He's the closest comparison to Castle and ended up as a top10 player from 2017 draft.

If Spurs go for a wing with #4 , I think Carter should be #8.

[Eaglenole2002]

I really like Carter and a Caruso-like menace. If we take him, we absolutely better have had something lined up at 4 or lined up in the FA/trade market for a shot creator. Despite being a guard and blowing up the combine, I don’t see him being good enough to create for himself or others on dribble drives. He’ll be able to spot up and attack close outs, but that’s about the best we can hope for out of him on the offensive end.

[scott]

I’m with you, LeBowen. Matas/Carter is quickly turning into my preferred (realistic) pairing.

[Ditty]

Carter has been my guy at 8 since the combine. I think Memphis will select him at 9 if we don't.

As happy as the FO is that they landed Wemby, I bet they still have regrets to this day giving D. White to Boston for pennies so far.

There's a chance that they get a similar players in Derrick White with Devin Carter.

[LeBowen]

I’m with you, LeBowen. Matas/Carter is quickly turning into my preferred (realistic) pairing.

I'm not that high on Matas, but it would make sense.
I definitely don't want Holland.
If by some miracle Risacher drops to #4, it would be ideal.
Castle/Carter looks subpar on paper if we talk star potential, but if we get two elite defenders with potential to growth, we'll look favorably on this draft some years down the line.

[BacktoBasics]

If you end up trading back with a team like Chicago it’s because you’re targeting this guy.

[TD 21]

The only reasons Castle is ranked higher than Carter are because he played for a more prestigious program, he's 3.5 inches taller and 2.6 years younger.

Castle has him by 15 pounds and 0.02 inches by wingspan, but Carter plays much bigger as evidenced by his elite "event creation" (2.8 blk% and 2.9stl % which in the NBA would tie for 30th and 1st respectively) and all-time guard rebounding (23.7 drbr % to 12 %; the former is equal to Holmes and greater than Clingan and Filipowski by .3 and 1.1% respectively).

He's also a way better 3-point shooter (37.7% on 6.6 3PA/G to 26.7% on 2/2 3PA/G).

We've seen teams constantly overrate the former's (high bust rate) archetype and underrate the latter's (high hit rate) archetype for these same reasons.

The Spurs have been beneficiaries with the likes of Hill, Murray and White. Others include Caruso, Podziemski, Nembhard, Mann, Melton, Brogdon, Brown and Quickley.

[JPB]

[B]* Set the NBA combine record with fastest 3/4 Sprint Time - 42 inch Vertical Jump
.

James White!

[Uriel]

I think Carter will make the all-rookie team and earn votes for rookie of the year. I just think it won’t be with us.

[objective]

8 still seems high for Carter to me. I think he’s a solid prospect, particularly on defense, but that’s a little rich for my blood personally. His slow-release jumper still looks weird to me too, and I’m wondering if his 3-point shooting this year will hold up or if it was a flash in the pan since it was his only season shooting above 30% from 3 in college.

I tend to agree. His shot looks like max effort every time to get it loaded and heaved every time, the opposite of effortless. History cautions against cases like Davion Mitchell of previously bad shooting defensive players who manage to finally crank a solid 3pt shooting season while bullying younger inexperienced college opponents.

Davion did go 9th and if that's a pick people liked then I could see the appeal

[Vienna]

I tend to agree. His shot looks like max effort every time to get it loaded and heaved every time, the opposite of effortless. History cautions against cases like Davion Mitchell of previously bad shooting defensive players who manage to finally crank a solid 3pt shooting season while bullying younger inexperienced college opponents.

Davion did go 9th and if that's a pick people liked then I could see the appeal

I agree and would add another example, who happens to come from the same programm: Kris Dunn.
he had an awful shot in his first two college years, got better to an average level, people thought he somehow figured it out and that pushed him to top 5.
but he didn't, like you said, he just figured out to hit some more shots against overwhelmed college kids.
Dunn was drafted more or less on the exactly same expectations people see with Carter - and there are a lot of similarities, other than Providence.

(btw.......for those who fall for bad omens.....Dunn was born on 18th of March.........guess the date of Carter's birth....)

[JPB]

I think Carter will make the all-rookie team and earn votes for rookie of the year. I just think it won’t be with us.

Don't sell the guy short, I say all star and All NBA Team .

[Chinook]

RGMers were pushing a Butler-to-LAL scenario where the Heat get 17 and 18. In that scenario, I'd be interested in 15 and 18 for 8 and say 35. The Heat get a top-10 pick and the Spurs can take one of the PGs and forwards who will fall. Carter, Collier, McCain and even Topic with his injury are examples of PGs who could be around at 15, and Holland, Smith, Klintman and Edey are examples of front-court players who could be there at 18. The Spurs would still have 4 to go after their BPA (Sheppard, Castle, Buzelis, Dillingham)

[4lifecowboy]

Would be more than happy with Buzelis at 4, with Castle or Carter at 8.

[jjspur]

Whenever I see Carter in videos, it seems he's in control and in charge of the moment. Offensively he wants the ball or on defense he is making things happen. Other than Wemby and Vassell, we don't have players like that, but we could sure use one. Some of our guys can barely inbound the ball without looking afraid t do so.

He would easily fit in our back court providing us with a better backup or a possible starter down the road. Picking him at 8 would be a smart move.

[4lifecowboy]

Whenever I see Carter in videos, it seems he's in control and in charge of the moment. Offensively he wants the ball or on defense he is making things happen. Other than Wemby and Vassell, we don't have players like that, but we could sure use one. Some of our guys can barely inbound the ball without looking afraid t do so.

He would easily fit in our back court providing us with a better backup or a possible starter down the road. Picking him at 8 would be a smart move.

Reminds me of a more athletic Derrick White, with the ability to get to the hole.

[Spurs Homer]

if he ends up being as scrubby as his worthless dad -

pass....

unless - you trade pick #35 and/ or wesley or another scrub for a higher pick...to get him

[Pauleta14]

What is he REALLY good at?

You need at least one area above average to exist in NBA

[DPG21920]

RGMers were pushing a Butler-to-LAL scenario where the Heat get 17 and 18. In that scenario, I'd be interested in 15 and 18 for 8 and say 35. The Heat get a top-10 pick and the Spurs can take one of the PGs and forwards who will fall. Carter, Collier, McCain and even Topic with his injury are examples of PGs who could be around at 15, and Holland, Smith, Klintman and Edey are examples of front-court players who could be there at 18. The Spurs would still have 4 to go after their BPA (Sheppard, Castle, Buzelis, Dillingham)

I do that. I’d also do 4 for 7+14 if that opportunity presented itself even though that means SA loses out on their chance to get their highest ranked guy at 4.

[The Truth #6]

What is he REALLY good at?

You need at least one area above average to exist in NBA
From what I understand: blocks, steals, rebounds, POA defense and defense in general look to be from very good to elite.

The issue is that he has improved on offense to be an above average shooter for this last year, a distinction from other elite defenders.

[Ariel]

RGMers were pushing a Butler-to-LAL scenario where the Heat get 17 and 18. In that scenario, I'd be interested in 15 and 18 for 8 and say 35. The Heat get a top-10 pick and the Spurs can take one of the PGs and forwards who will fall. Carter, Collier, McCain and even Topic with his injury are examples of PGs who could be around at 15, and Holland, Smith, Klintman and Edey are examples of front-court players who could be there at 18. The Spurs would still have 4 to go after their BPA (Sheppard, Castle, Buzelis, Dillingham)
My favorite targets at 8 are Dillingham and Sheppard but if we could land one of Carter or McCain with 17 & 18 I'd seriously consider that trade. However, it's highly likely they're all gone by the mid teens (except for probably Collier) so I think a late teens pick is not worth losing out on all of the best guard prospects.

[onechance87]

What is he REALLY good at?

You need at least one area above average to exist in NBA

really good at defending and rebounding.Great hustle guy,If his shot is foreal,This is the guy you want.
Seems confident and not afraid taking shots and making shit happen.

[Ariel]

What is he REALLY good at?

You need at least one area above average to exist in NBA
I remember asking about him a few months ago and I got two positive replies by I think SpursBills and MrBody, so I checked a couple of the last Providence games. He was pretty much as advertised, a bully of a PG who's a madman on the boards and plays really hard on D fighting through every screen, not really a playmaker or self creator but adequate at both, with an unorthodox but effective 3 pt shot even from deep. Personally I'd favor point guards with what I perceive to be a higher degree of creation potential (hence why I'm higher on Dillingham) but he looks like a really good bet to be a long term productive player with perhaps upside to grow into more if his shot translates, which is a question mark IMO since his release is a bit slow and wasn't as good in his freshman and sophomore seasons. All things considered he's not my main guy at 8, he'd be probably a worthwhile late lottery pick in every other draft, but if the Spurs can trade back and get him plus something else of value, it wouldn't be a bad deal IMO.

[Strategic]

Here’s what Carter showed in the 2 games against UConn this year. I didn’t watch either game and I know 2 games is a small sample size. Both games look to have been competitive. Combined, he scored 44 points on 37 shots. This includes 3/11 from the arc. He sucked from the FT line. 24 rebounds wow. A volume shooter that can’t make free throws. Not sure if they were guarding each other but Castle shot 50% from the field in the 2 games, including behind the arc. Not sure why the Spurs would look twice at Carter.

[Ariel]

Here’s what Carter showed in the 2 games against UConn this year. I didn’t watch either game and I know 2 games is a small sample size. Both games look to have been competitive. Combined, he scored 44 points on 37 shots. This includes 3/11 from the arc. He sucked from the FT line. 24 rebounds wow. A volume shooter that can’t make free throws. Not sure if they were guarding each other but Castle shot 50% from the field in the 2 games, including behind the arc. Not sure why the Spurs would look twice at Carter.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/devin-carter-3.html
Small sample. He shot 37.7% from 3 for the whole season on 6.8 3PA per game (84/223) and 74.9% from the line (128/171).

[SpursFan86]

Here’s what Carter showed in the 2 games against UConn this year. I didn’t watch either game and I know 2 games is a small sample size. Both games look to have been competitive. Combined, he scored 44 points on 37 shots. This includes 3/11 from the arc. He sucked from the FT line. 24 rebounds wow. A volume shooter that can’t make free throws. Not sure if they were guarding each other but Castle shot 50% from the field in the 2 games, including behind the arc. Not sure why the Spurs would look twice at Carter.

Going out on a limb here but I’m guessing the Spurs aren’t basing their decisions on a 2 game sample size. Sounds crazy but there might be more to consider.

[Mr. Body]

Here’s what Carter showed in the 2 games against UConn this year. I didn’t watch either game and I know 2 games is a small sample size. Both games look to have been competitive. Combined, he scored 44 points on 37 shots. This includes 3/11 from the arc. He sucked from the FT line. 24 rebounds wow. A volume shooter that can’t make free throws. Not sure if they were guarding each other but Castle shot 50% from the field in the 2 games, including behind the arc. Not sure why the Spurs would look twice at Carter.

He played well against UConn, even very well. The Huskies were throttling a lot of players like him.

[Pauleta14]

From what I understand: blocks, steals, rebounds, POA defense and defense in general look to be from very good to elite.

The issue is that he has improved on offense to be an above average shooter for this last year, a distinction from other elite defenders.


really good at defending and rebounding.Great hustle guy,If his shot is foreal,This is the guy you want.
Seems confident and not afraid taking shots and making shit happen.


I remember asking about him a few months ago and I got two positive replies by I think SpursBills and MrBody, so I checked a couple of the last Providence games. He was pretty much as advertised, a bully of a PG who's a madman on the boards and plays really hard on D fighting through every screen, not really a playmaker or self creator but adequate at both, with an unorthodox but effective 3 pt shot even from deep. Personally I'd favor point guards with what I perceive to be a higher degree of creation potential (hence why I'm higher on Dillingham) but he looks like a really good bet to be a long term productive player with perhaps upside to grow into more if his shot translates, which is a question mark IMO since his release is a bit slow and wasn't as good in his freshman and sophomore seasons. All things considered he's not my main guy at 8, he'd be probably a worthwhile late lottery pick in every other draft, but if the Spurs can trade back and get him plus something else of value, it wouldn't be a bad deal IMO.

Thx guys.


Ariel, as much as I'd agree normally on the necessary creativity for a PG, Wemby's playmaking can erase that imo

I'm learning about him tbh but I like that his father was a pro. You all seems to describe a fundamentally sound player

I'm a bit concerned by his size that in my book is only fine if you're a special offensive player. He's just 1" taller than Tre Jones

[The Truth #6]

Thx guys.


Ariel, as much as I'd agree normally on the necessary creativity for a PG, Wemby's playmaking can erase that imo

I'm learning about him tbh but I like that his father was a pro. You all seems to describe a fundamentally sound player

I'm a bit concerned by his size that in my book is only fine if you're a special offensive player. He's just 1" taller than Tre Jones

I suppose another plus is elite combine numbers. +6" wingspan. 42" vertical. The fastest 3/4 sprint of all time in the Combine, I think. So that adds to his theoretical upside. Very hard worker. Team player.

[exstatic]

Thx guys.


Ariel, as much as I'd agree normally on the necessary creativity for a PG, Wemby's playmaking can erase that imo

I'm learning about him tbh but I like that his father was a pro. You all seems to describe a fundamentally sound player

I'm a bit concerned by his size that in my book is only fine if you're a special offensive player. He's just 1" taller than Tre Jones

Spurs trivia, old timers knowledge edition:

Anthony Carter wound up as a Spur because his agent fucked up and forgot to exercise his player option with the Heat. He had a good relationship with the Spurs, and PATFO signed AC to a contract at the amount he would have gotten from Miami had his agent picked up the option.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think a player necessarily has to have an elite skill to stick in the league. There are other avenues. That said, he has superior skills that will keep him on the court. Just is more of an undersized SG, which is okay.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs trivia, old timers knowledge edition:

Anthony Carter wound up as a Spur because his agent fucked up and forgot to exercise his player option with the Heat. He had a good relationship with the Spurs, and PATFO signed AC to a contract at the amount he would have gotten from Miami had his agent picked up the option.

Iirc that agent fuck up gave Miami enough room to go out and sign LeBron James.

Similar to how the league failed to even out the cap change in the new CBA, instead making it a lump increase, and this allowed them to sign Durant.

Two supposed fuck ups transformed the league for twenty years.

[exstatic]

Iirc that agent fuck up gave Miami enough room to go out and sign LeBron James.

Similar to how the league failed to even out the cap change in the new CBA, instead making it a lump increase, and this allowed them to sign Durant.

Two supposed fuck ups transformed the league for twenty years.

It was 6 years before LeBron/2010 superfriends gathering.

[LeBowen]

It was 6 years before LeBron/2010 superfriends gathering.

And Warriors were able to sign Durant because Steph was on a ridiculously cheap rookie extension due to his injury history.
Klay and Draymond were also still on their rookie extensions.

No CBA could've prevented what KD did. It's just that all the stars alligned for them.
And they had to let Barnes go.

[exstatic]

And Warriors were able to sign Durant because Steph was on a ridiculously cheap rookie extension due to his injury history.
Klay and Draymond were also still on their rookie extensions.

No CBA could've prevented what KD did. It's just that all the stars alligned for them.
And they had to let Barnes go.

What does that have to do with Anthony Carter?

[LeBowen]

What does that have to do with Anthony Carter?

Damn, my bad.

I quoted the wrong post.

That reply was meant for this:


Similar to how the league failed to even out the cap change in the new CBA, instead making it a lump increase, and this allowed them to sign Durant.

[Mr. Body]

It was 6 years before LeBron/2010 superfriends gathering.

Ok, it either allowed something to happen or there was another complete fluke. Whatever.

[Mr. Body]

The mess with Carter allowed Miami space to put together their first championship.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/how-a-botched-anthony-carter-4-2-million-extension-led-to-a-miami-heat-championship

[SOMA Spur]

I do that. I’d also do 4 for 7+14 if that opportunity presented itself even though that means SA loses out on their chance to get their highest ranked guy at 4.

Wondering where Carter is ranked on their board - could HE be as high as 4?

This trade down scenario with Portland is one I've been batting around the last few days. If Sarr, Rizz, Castle are gone, and Carter is next up on their board, time to trade down #4 for 7+14. Grab Carter at 7, a wing at 8 (Knecht, maybe Matas if he's available), and your project at 14 (Salaun, Topic, Holland, Edey, whatever guy thats ranked 30+ who they'd love to draft in the lottery).

Took a deeper dive with Carter's film and stats this weekend. Finally a guy who plays WAY above his size. Rebounding's elite, blocks, athleticism, a defensive dog. The shot still needs work but this season he doubled his volume and improved from 30% to 38% from 3, so he's definitely headed in the right direction there. Just seems like a guy you want to go to war with (similar to Castle). Doesn't look like anyone will touch him until maybe #9 with the Grizz (his Dads an assistant). So if he's the Spurs guy, lots of room here for crafty trades to maximize value, and I'd be down for it.

[exstatic]

The mess with Carter allowed Miami space to put together their first championship.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/how-a-botched-anthony-carter-4-2-million-extension-led-to-a-miami-heat-championship

The first one, not the LeBron ones that you originally stated.

[scottspurs]

Carter worked out against Stephon Castle in San Antonio for the Spurs according to ESPN’s latest mock

[onechance87]

Carter worked out against Stephon Castle in San Antonio for the Spurs according to ESPN’s latest mock

draft em both

[LeBowen]

draft em both

Tbh, I wouldn't mind.
Keep Tre one more year until these two develop point guard skills.

If Castle and Carter develop close to their best case scenario, our guard rotation would be set for many years with two of them and Devin.

[BackHome]

Wondering where Carter is ranked on their board - could HE be as high as 4?

This trade down scenario with Portland is one I've been batting around the last few days. If Sarr, Rizz, Castle are gone, and Carter is next up on their board, time to trade down #4 for 7+14. Grab Carter at 7, a wing at 8 (Knecht, maybe Matas if he's available), and your project at 14 (Salaun, Topic, Holland, Edey, whatever guy thats ranked 30+ who they'd love to draft in the lottery).

Took a deeper dive with Carter's film and stats this weekend. Finally a guy who plays WAY above his size. Rebounding's elite, blocks, athleticism, a defensive dog. The shot still needs work but this season he doubled his volume and improved from 30% to 38% from 3, so he's definitely headed in the right direction there. Just seems like a guy you want to go to war with (similar to Castle). Doesn't look like anyone will touch him until maybe #9 with the Grizz (his Dads an assistant). So if he's the Spurs guy, lots of room here for crafty trades to maximize value, and I'd be down for it.

I just read about a proposed trade deal with Portland where they give us there 14th pick and Brogdon for Keldon Johnson. Not sure about the trade, but even at 14 I don't think Carter will be there I think he goes 8 - 12 in this draft

[ZeusWillJudge]

He's widely recognized as one of the better on-ball defenders in the draft, and his lateral agility is exceptional. Before his shooting improvement last season, the thought was that defense would be his ticket in the NBA. His height is one of the big issues (reportedly) but between his wingspan (basically the same as Dalton Knecht and Stephon Castle) and leaping ability, he doesn't play small on the boards. He had consecutive seasons with 30+ blocks which, for a guy his height, is incredible.

He had the best max vertical, the best standing vertical, the fastest time in the 3/4 sprint, third best lane agility time, and tenth best shuttle run time (tied with Buzelis). People always bitch that they want the Spurs to have more athleticism. This is the player with the most athleticism in the whole draft. I don't know if you would call him "elite", but pretty damned close. Get him out in front of a fast break with Wemby trailing? The crowd goes wild.

There are guys whose per game numbers look good, but only in spot minutes. They don't hold up at the same rate when they're in the game for longer stints. Carter played 33 games and averaged over 35 minutes. 1165 minutes total this season. Compared to two other players who are getting a lot of mention, Stephon Castle played 918 minutes total, and Cody Williams totaled 681 minutes. And since I saw a comment about him playing at Providence, they had a strength of schedule of 8.93 compared to 8.70 for UConn (Castle) and 8.36 for Colorado (Cody Williams). So Carter's numbers are legit, and against overall high level competition.

His 3P% jumped from .299 to .377 in a single season. That could be a fluke... but his 3P attempts also increased from 117 to 223, which is a meaningful sample size. Cody Williams shot .415 from 3P, but he only put up 41 of them. He's not the first kid to come out of college sporting "poor shot selection", but at least part of that is not having much help and being forced to try and do too much. He's a smart player - he'll learn.

The holy grail is a player who can defend multiple positions, and that's the concern about his height. Just under 50% of the 6'2" and under players (Carter was 6'2.25 in bare feet) drafted since 2003 have stuck in the NBA. But a lot of those were second round picks, and the overall "stick" rate for all second round picks in aggregate is actually under 39%. His speed, lateral movement, and reach will at least allow him to keep opposing 3's honest, but yeah some bigger players are going to shoot over him.

He's not a PG, period. And the Spurs need a PG - not just to "get better" but to start developing a comfort level with Wemby. But there aren't many real PG's out there, and they're coveted. Isaiah Collier may be the best and most underrated one in the draft, but he's not likely to be a game-changer, and he's the same height as Carter. It's hard to have two 6'2" players on the court at the same time, and that's where Topic's size would have made a stronger case for drafting Carter. But assuming the Spurs don't make any crazy deals, if he's there at 8 you just take him. If they can get him by trading down and getting some other asset, even better. But you can't teach speed and athleticism.

For the record, I've become a big believer in players who come from basketball families, both from genetics and from getting good instruction almost from birth. I like Cody Williams, especially as Jalen Williams' little brother. Tidjane Salaun also comes from a family of good players. But Castle insists his natural position is PG, so if the Spurs see that in him, get him at 4 and Carter at 8 and head to camp.

[LeBowen]

He's not a PG, period.

Great post, but I wouldn't say that he can't become a PG.
DJ wasn't close to being a PG when he got drafted.

It's obvious we don't want a heliocentric PG.
Carter could develop his skills and be useful enough when sharing the ball with other players that have playmaking skills.
As you said, I also wouldn't be opposed to Castle+Carter draft. It would look rough early on, but if we're going back to sharing the ball playstyle, it could work a few years down the line.

[R. DeMurre]

Carter and Sheppard will be great case studies going forward in the debate between actual high level results in college from less than ideal archetypes vs optimal physical archetypes who've "shown flashes," i.e., haven't posted high level results... SpursBills mentioned in one post the idea of an inflection point between physical limitations and results, and it's really one of the most interesting debates in scouting I think, very similar to the "high floor" types who usually stick in the league vs the "high ceiling" types who much more frequently bust. I personally value positional size-- maybe more than most-- but I'm kinda going against myself this year in liking both Carter and Sheppard.

[R. DeMurre]

But I remember a time when I went in the opposite direction-- when Sacramento drafted Davion Mitchell-- and I thought it was such a terrible decision to add a 6'0" defensive stopper to a team that already had a slightly undersized PG who was defensively mediocre.

[LeBowen]

But I remember a time when I went in the opposite direction-- when Sacramento drafted Davion Mitchell-- and I thought it was such a terrible decision to add a 6'0" defensive stopper to a team that already had a slightly undersized PG who was defensively mediocre.

It's not like he's doing well.
Yesterday I saw a suggestion to get Kings under the tax.
Spurs #35 pick for Davion and Kings fans thought it's a fair deal.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1803522956074819799

[BackHome]

Nice vid...the more I see and watch the more I like the kid with our 8th pick

[SpursBills]

The clip is enlightening - both Carter and McCain this year were surprisingly good finishers in the paint compared to the peers (both >60% at the rim in the half-court) and both made a living finishing off two feet which is not that common. With Brunson's success, it's a tactic you may see more and more especially with bigger/beefier guards who can use touch and center of mass to improve their at-rim efficiency.

[Dejounte]

From Fat Head 1 (Kyle Anderson)
to Fat Head 2 (Derrick White)
to Fat Head 3 (Devin Carter)

it’s tradition

[DAF86]

It is so difficult to compare. This guy is a full grown adult compared to guys like Castle, Sheppard, Dillingham and Carrington.

If you compare his freshman stats to these other guys, there's no contest.

[spurraider21]

It is so difficult to compare. This guy is a full grown adult compared to guys like Castle, Sheppard, Dillingham and Carrington.

If you compare his freshman stats to these other guys, there's no contest.
The thing is, he’s kind of similar to Derrick white and he also didn’t come out as a freshman

[DPG21920]

I would not be surprised if he is one of the picks. Im calling that in timvp next big board/mock article that Carter has moved up

[exstatic]

Carter is going to go a lot higher than people think he will. He’s just a dog, but a very talented one in a very thin draft.

[Mr. Body]

I'm in for Castle at 4 and very hopeful they don't blow it. I'm also in for Carter at 8. He could go 6, even, to Charlotte.

[The Truth #6]

Castle and Carter in the back court actually works. Carter needs to play next to a tall point, assuming Castle works as a PG. Carter could play as shooting guard on offense and defend point guards on defense. Or they share point guard duties. Anyway. Could be a symbiotic relationship.

[LeBowen]

Castle and Carter in the back court actually works. Carter needs to play next to a tall point, assuming Castle works as a PG. Carter could play as shooting guard on offense and defend point guards on defense. Or they share point guard duties. Anyway. Could be a symbiotic relationship.

Carter-Vassell-Castle would be easily able to play together against every team that doesn't have bigger wings that are able to create for themselves.

[ace3g]

https://youtu.be/PR-zb4nFnso?si=KYt035r9hwljXYFh

[T Park]

Watching all the tape available Carter screams an offensively talented Alex Caruso.

100% all in on him at 8 and Castle at 4.

[John B]

Watching all the tape available Carter screams an offensively talented Alex Caruso.

100% all in on him at 8 and Castle at 4.

Castle and Carter has a nice ring to it. That’s like DJ and White again, two guards who can share duties.

[BatManu20]

Caruso is 3 inches taller than Carter but I can see the comparison. CArter's a great athlete too. I'd much rather him than Salaun or Williams at 8 tbh.

[CGD]

It’s contingent:

- Carter is the play at 8 if ZR falls to 4.
- unclear how they value Castle v Reed, but if Reed, I can see Carter being the play at 8
- if Castle is the pick at 4, I don’t think they also take Carter. They’re probably taking best wing left between Salaun or Williams (I vote Williams)

So possible combos coming into focus:
1. ZR + Carter
2. Reed + Carter
3. Castle + William

[Mr. Body]

It’s contingent:

- Carter is the play at 8 if ZR falls to 4.
- unclear how they value Castle v Reed, but if Reed, I can see Carter being the play at 8
- if Castle is the pick at 4, I don’t think they also take Carter. They’re probably taking best wing left between Salaun or Williams (I vote Williams)

So possible combos coming into focus:
1. ZR + Carter
2. Reed + Carter
3. Castle + William

I hope they pass on Risacher, that's clear. But if they get Castle first, I don't see any reason not to take Carter. Don't draft for position. The difference between Cody Williams and Devin Carter in terms of having that dog - or any kind of life whatsoever - is gaping. Give me the guy who plays hard and not the wee wallflower.

[SpursFan86]

I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t still grab Carter even if we draft Castle. It’s not like a theoretical Carter/Vassell/Castle/Sochan/Wemby lineup would be anywhere near undersized. And guys like Castle, Carter, and even Sheppard for that matter aren’t likely to be true PGs in the sense of being ball-dominant. With Sochan/Wemby I don’t think they want to go out and get a guy is mostly only effective with the ball in his hands.

Sheppard/Vassell/Castle or Carter/Vassell/Castle would both be exciting trios to put alongside a Sochan/Wemby duo.

edit: I guess the only reason the above scenarios wouldn’t work out is if Castle truly is insistent on being a true PG in the traditional sense. But if that’s the case then I don’t see SA picking him in the first place tbh.

[Mr. Body]

I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t still grab Carter even if we draft Castle. It’s not like a theoretical Carter/Vassell/Castle/Sochan/Wemby lineup would be anywhere near undersized. And guys like Castle, Carter, and even Sheppard for that matter aren’t likely to be true PGs in the sense of being ball-dominant. With Sochan/Wemby I don’t think they want to go out and get a guy is mostly only effective with the ball in his hands.

Sheppard/Vassell/Castle or Carter/Vassell/Castle would both be exciting trios to put alongside a Sochan/Wemby duo.

edit: I guess the only reason the above scenarios wouldn’t work out is if Castle truly is insistent on being a true PG in the traditional sense. But if that’s the case then I don’t see SA picking him in the first place tbh.

Castle and Carter overlap really well. Their defense will be excellent. And... one of our problems (other than defense and shooting and...) is rebounding, and they're both strong rebounders. They can help clean the defensive glass.

[Mr. Body]

The other thing I'd say about Castle/Carter is they'll both be ready pretty quickly. Unless things go wildly wrong, they'll be able to pick up schemes and understand the NBA enough to play almost out of the box.

A guy like Cody Williams can get time, but as a project. I'm not even sure Risacher will be able to play in the NBA as a trusted starter yet. He certainly doesn't look like it.

[3&D_TBH]

Castle and Carter overlap really well. Their defense will be excellent. And... one of our problems (other than defense and shooting and...) is rebounding, and they're both strong rebounders. They can help clean the defensive glass. This. I think these two guys give us a lot of immediate juice and dawg. They both seem spursy and obvious fits to me, too. Also, with Carter, we would almost always have the fastest guy on the court which I like very much paired with what Wemby brings.

[TD 21]

I've never understood why most base size solely off of height.

Who cares if Caruso is nearly 2 inches taller than Carter? Carter is nearly 3 inches longer, weighs more and has the block (so does Caruso) and rebound rates of some C's, so functionally he plays big.


It’s contingent:

- Carter is the play at 8 if ZR falls to 4.
- unclear how they value Castle v Reed, but if Reed, I can see Carter being the play at 8
- if Castle is the pick at 4, I don’t think they also take Carter. They’re probably taking best wing left between Salaun or Williams (I vote Williams)

So possible combos coming into focus:
1. ZR + Carter
2. Reed + Carter
3. Castle + William

Probably the most likely scenarios.

[SpursBills]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a pretty big Devin Carter stan, and he's one of my 3 favorite prospects in this draft.

That said, the single biggest question for carter is if you think his shot is going to translate. He's been a terrible shooter with low FT%, low 3P%, low 3 pt volume all the way until this year. This year, his 3pt % and volume went way up while his FT shooting improved although it's still around 75% while his mid-range percentages are still low. He also continues to shoot a moon ball with a very low release. Historically, older guys with middling percentages and a one year improvement have not done that well in the league from a shooting standpoint. Think Davion Mitchell, Kris Dunn, Ochai Agbaji. Carter has better outs to shoot than these guys because he took a massive 3 point volume and increased his FT% year after year as well, but there are still significant questions. If his shooting follows only expected development, you may be getting yourself a different version of Josh Hart where he is a better defender but a worse offensive rebounder, which is still easily a valuable rotation player.

I have him very high right now, but I am currently wrestling who I would prefer more between him and McCain if Castle ends up going at 4. McCain is not nearly the defender or as athletic, but his shot has an incredibly high likelihood of translating and I like his decision making a bit more as well. Also, in spite of his short arms, his strength may help him as both a rim finisher and a defender (think Desmond Bane) and I have a borderline irrational belief in his ability to become more of an on-ball player similar to someone like CJ McCollum. Strong, stocky guards have had better than expected success on the defensive end in the past so I do not believe that McCain will be a complete zero on that end as well.

Yesterday, I had Carter over McCain. Today, I think I prefer McCain. Tomorrow, I'll probably prefer Carter again.

[onechance87]

So it has been decided.Castle and carter are the pics.Get rid wesley and branham this offseason,Bring in
some new talent.Make it happen wright

[Pauleta14]

I have a problem with the way prospects can be evaluated depending on the quality of the workouts they have or even the combine results.

Some players clealy train for those and I'm not sure it gives a exhaustive picture.

Carter is THREE years older than Castle with a dad former pro and curent coach... What would a 19yo Carter have done? What about a 22yo Castle?

I'm not saying Carter isn't a good choice but 3 more years is a lot compared to other kids

[spurraider21]

Neither Castle nor Carter are real point guards. Carter was physically dominating guys 2-3 years younger than him. And while he improved his shooting it’s still a low/slow release.

[BackHome]

And that is why your taking Carter at 8 and not at 4 - I understand the age thing but from day one Carter has been a Pit Bull on defense it was always his offense that was lacking. But for me on older players I look at there progression and you can easily tell that he worked very hard on his shot mechanics and his percentages on FT% and the 3 ball went up every year by a good percentage

[CGD]

Castle and Carter overlap really well. Their defense will be excellent. And... one of our problems (other than defense and shooting and...) is rebounding, and they're both strong rebounders. They can help clean the defensive glass.

I don’t disagree re Carter btw. Spurs should/could look for their wing needs in FA and next draft.

[R. DeMurre]

Honestly, BPA is the only way to go right now for a team that has so many holes to fill. If two players overlap poorly down the line, one can become a valuable trade piece. This is a team hoping to win 35 games next year.

[DAF86]

I'm warming up to the idea of Carter at 8. One of few two-way prospects of the entire draft.

Risacher at 4, Carter at 8 would be the dream, the only two prospects with above average impact on both sides of the ball.

[scott]

I have been on the Carter train for awhile, and I like the concept of a Castle/Carter draft or even a Sheppard/Carter draft... but I am concerned about leaving this draft without trying to address the hole at SF/PF that is even larger than at G, IMO.

Fun times ahead as this could go any direction!

[DPG21920]

I have been on the Carter train for awhile, and I like the concept of a Castle/Carter draft or even a Sheppard/Carter draft... but I am concerned about leaving this draft without trying to address the hole at SF/PF that is even larger than at G, IMO.

Fun times ahead as this could go any direction!

Thats why I am sort of on the “if DET would give us 5 for Keldon + a little something else” train IF Risacher AND Castle or Reed are there come pick 4. If that scenario presents itself, and you can grab Castle + Risacher now at 4/5 and still get Carter at 8 that is a pretty damn great scenario as I think Risacher has better potential than Keldon for the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

Neither Castle nor Carter are real point guards. Carter was physically dominating guys 2-3 years younger than him. And while he improved his shooting it’s still a low/slow release.

Danny Ferry had that same kind of release and I remember Rick Fox just skullfucking him in the 01 WCF because of it. Could not get a clean look off even when open by NBA standards as Fox could get right back to it when Tim kicked it out to Ferry. Ferry's release was faster too.

[baseline bum]

Thats why I am sort of on the “if DET would give us 5 for Keldon + a little something else” train IF Risacher AND Castle or Reed are there come pick 4. If that scenario presents itself, and you can grab Castle + Risacher now at 4/5 and still get Carter at 8 that is a pretty damn great scenario as I think Risacher has better potential than Keldon for the Spurs.

Just give up the Keldon and change for #5 pipe dream man, it's never happening. :lol

Maybe if Carter falls to late lottery you could do something with Keldon but not for #5.

[DPG21920]

Just give up the Keldon and change for #5 pipe dream man, it's never happening. :lol

Maybe if Carter falls to late lottery you could do something with Keldon but not for #5.

Dont tell me how to live my life BB :lol!

[baseline bum]

I have been on the Carter train for awhile, and I like the concept of a Castle/Carter draft or even a Sheppard/Carter draft... but I am concerned about leaving this draft without trying to address the hole at SF/PF that is even larger than at G, IMO.

Fun times ahead as this could go any direction!

You're not worried that Carter's low release point and slow release are going to necessitate a complete teardown of his jumper? Castle / Carter seem pretty redundant with similar strengths and weaknesses. If you take Risacher or Buzelis #4 I could see taking Carter 8 but no way if I'm getting Castle 4 and probably not Sheppard at 4 either since not too hyped about having to go out and sign Tobias Harris to give the team a half competent forward.

[baseline bum]

Dont tell me how to live my life BB :lol!

Sorry it's the Texas way

[Ditty]

With the 2025 being heavy wing draft as of now, and possibly looking to draft our small forward of thr future then.

Say if we don't have a chance to draft Risacher. Then we do draft Castle and Carter and don't make any big moves for a small forward. I wonder if they go with a starting lineup of:

Wemby
Sochan
Vassell
Carter
Castle

Bench:
Collins
Keldon
Branham
Wesley
Jones

Not a very sexy bench again unless Branham or Wesley take a leap, and not a lot of floor spacing from the starters. Great defensive starting lineup though.

[objective]

Had a Vecenie podcast playing in the background and heard the guest talk about how Brunson's success was going to get people overdrafted and it sounded like Carter would fit the bill.

[exstatic]

Had a Vecenie podcast playing in the background and heard the guest talk about how Brunson's success was going to get people overdrafted and it sounded like Carter would fit the bill.

Completely opposite players. Besides, everyone will be over drafted this year. It’s a crap draft.

[Dejounte]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

[The Truth #6]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

Makes sense. But could be Buzelis as a project at 4 and then who knows at 8?

[onechance87]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

Sochan and branham and wesley all drafted the same year all got good amount of playing time their first year.I would expect
two lottery picks to get a good amount of playing time,Especially since half this roster not that good.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

Theoretically sounds right but probably depends on the players.

Some guys are going to get the schemes and league much faster than others. I think they'll just take who they think is best and see. But yeah if they take Salaun he's going to be eating breakfast tacos in Austin all season. Maybe the next season too.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

Why? I mean, I sort of on the surface understand why, but when I think deeper about the fact that Branham and Blake are both still very young (albeit not rookies) and could be phased out, why couldn’t SA bring in 2-3 rookies if the guys they are replacing are also young and not established legit win now players?

[Truckules]

Neither Castle nor Carter are real point guards. Carter was physically dominating guys 2-3 years younger than him. And while he improved his shooting it’s still a low/slow release.

:lol Not everyone in college is a freshman. In fact, most of the players that Carter was playing against were the same age as him.

[Pauleta14]

I have been on the Carter train for awhile, and I like the concept of a Castle/Carter draft or even a Sheppard/Carter draft... but I am concerned about leaving this draft without trying to address the hole at SF/PF that is even larger than at G, IMO.

Fun times ahead as this could go any direction!

I'd take a guard and a foward too, but I think it'll all depend on what players are available at 4 and 8. Depending on the positions "covered" in the draft, PATFO will adress the other positions on the trade market.

Givoni confirmed they're going for the BPA and not specifics positions.

[spurraider21]

:lol Not everyone in college is a freshman. In fact, most of the players that Carter was playing against were the same age as him.
i know there are plenty of exceptions to this, but in the one and done era the guys who look like they'll be promising nba players end up largely being one and done. to the extent you are playing against juniors/seniors, yes they may be more physically developed but these also tend to be less skilled players. the good, nba worthy upperclassman still tend to look better than they are, because theyre either much farther along physically than the "good" one and done prospects, or theyre facing other upperclassmen who just arent up to par skill wise

[Mr. Body]

i know there are plenty of exceptions to this, but in the one and done era the guys who look like they'll be promising nba players end up largely being one and done. to the extent you are playing against juniors/seniors, yes they may be more physically developed but these also tend to be less skilled players. the good, nba worthy upperclassman still tend to look better than they are, because theyre either much farther along physically than the "good" one and done prospects, or theyre facing other upperclassmen who just arent up to par skill wise

Upperclassman college players are often really, really good. They may not have the physical traits it takes to play in the NBA, but they are still serious players. An upperclassman Hunter Dickinson was way fucking better than Jackson Hayes or that other tall skinny kid from Texas whose name I can't remember. Mo Bamba. The talent and skill level is completely different. The NIL is also rapidly transforming how players are staying in college and developing there.

[BackHome]

:lol Not everyone in college is a freshman. In fact, most of the players that Carter was playing against were the same age as him.

Yeah most guys he was going up against and dominating were his age as there not a lot of starting 18 year old on good programs except the likes of Duke and Kentucky

[R. DeMurre]

^^^ And I think this is something that Dan Hurley has used to his advantage to win two college championships, having seniors and juniors carry the vast majority of the weight while the more highly touted freshman and sophs (Castle and Clingan) play fewer minutes and slot into the best situations.

[BackHome]

The Spurs aren’t giving two rookies major minutes this upcoming season. They will with one, but not two. That’s why I think they will lean with a project at 8, rather than a known thing like Carter.

In this draft you just take best player and worry who can start and who will be in G League latter. In the end Spurs are just going to pick the best player that’s still available on there big board

[offset formation]

Tbh, I wouldn't mind.
Keep Tre one more year until these two develop point guard skills.

If Castle and Carter develop close to their best case scenario, our guard rotation would be set for many years with two of them and Devin.

Most folks don't just routinely develop point guard skills...or shooting skills...or finishing skills.

Those that do are the exception to the rule. Castle is a good finisher but poor shooter. Carter is a decent shooter but average passer and poor finisher at best and is 6'3" and this board has historically HATED smallish PGs. At least they're both quick and both seem to have defensive capabilities. (BTW, I'm 6'3" and have never thought of myself as smallish, lol)

I'm not getting the late love the board is having for these guys, quite frankly. I simply don't think you waste a 4 or even 8 on a PG with the kind of deficiencies these two have in the HOPES they develop the nearly undevelopable skills to do so. Of course some do become good shooters or learn to finish but they're definitely not common.

If you're shooting for pure chance or hope, Salaun has a better shot. Buzelis is more sculpted as a complete player now because his issue is BBIQ defensively and that CAN be coached. Or Clingan as an actual deep post player to recreate the Twin Towers. To me each of those picks can be better defended than Castle or Carter, imo.

[spurraider21]

Upperclassman college players are often really, really good. They may not have the physical traits it takes to play in the NBA, but they are still serious players. An upperclassman Hunter Dickinson was way fucking better than Jackson Hayes or that other tall skinny kid from Texas whose name I can't remember. Mo Bamba. The talent and skill level is completely different. The NIL is also rapidly transforming how players are staying in college and developing there.
honestly i hope so. there is a place for one and done type players, as there was historically a place for direct-from-high-school players, but the current system where almost everybody draftable just leaves right away sucks. you get wildly immature players (from a basketball perspectives), many of whom need to do such fundamental things like rework their shooting form. much rather they go through those growing pains in college and then can get drafted as a closer to finished project that can earn a role right away. blake wesley was drafted because he was fast off the dribble and had solid size. the spurs seem close to giving up on him. realistically, he should have been in college for at least another year or 2 anyway.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JandersonSacBee/status/1808606280581591120

[Obstructed_View]

That sucks.