OFFICIAL 2024 SPURSTALK DRAFT DAY THREAD

[onechance87]

Pretty bizarre the Spurs punted a top-8 pick in the draft for a draft pick 7 years in the future that could has a better chance of being in the 20's than it does being a lottery pick.

Is bizarre the right word..?

yup dont see the point to this.Pop will be retired by then,Doubt wright is the gm by then as well.

[heyheymymy]

Agreed Salaun to CHA fits the hole Bridges will leave perfectly to be fair

It's just like Bilal last year another guy Spurs fans admired potentially next to Wemby but went too soon in the draft and probably for the best anyway realistically, as much as I like Bilal and Tidjane

[slick'81]

After primo nothing this franchise does surprises me anymore

[vy65]

Let’s say you’re tracking Minny relatively accurately. A swap is still a first. So we own 2 consecutive years of 1st from Minny once Conley and Gobert are done.

Traded 8 for two 1st from a team that isn’t a perennial playoff team.

Basically two 1st that will likely be 20 or better.

In my mind once you start building out a “Bridges” type trade these types of picks become the deal breakers on the back end of an agreed upon trade structure.

I wanted Dilly but I’m not furious about it.

It also likely ensures that you’re not gonna venture too far away from a top 8 pick next year in a draft that is as hyped as it gets.

This could also be 2 lottery picks for a 26ish year old Wemby. Not a bad thought.

It’s horrible value. For one, Brooklyn, Washington, Portland, Chicago, and Detroit will be worse, to a high degree of probability. SA will be grouped with the likes of Charlotte, Atlanta, Golden State, LAL, Utah, and Toronto. With the flattened odds, and Wembys probable growth, they could be picking in the late lottery.

Also, when does the tanking stop? 2025? 2026? 2027?

Minnesota has a top 5 talent who’ll be in his prime if/when the pick conveys. That blunts the possibility of the picks being high. And there’s an equal chance of those drafts being as bad as this one - we have no idea what the future looks like.

[heyheymymy]

Punting the additional pick def leaves a conspicuous roster slot open.

At the end of the day SA got a great player and then got out of the flat draft. We all said it was tough to see value in one 24 lottery pick let alone two. Well now you don't have to worry about that lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

Only one thing makes this okay for me. If 27 was part of the deal - especially if they can grab Isaiah Collier at that spot. He's a legitimate PG, and 6'5". He'll fit. And if they get him plus the draft assets? Yeah, I'll sleep tonight. I still can't believe they passed on Carter and his defense.

I don't think that's going to happen, unless they're also trading for a GM tonight. But they couldn't have announced that deal before the actual pick, so I'll hold out hope for a few more minutes.

[Obstructed_View]

Does anyone need to point out that Malaki Branham is more useful this year than every guard in this draft?

[TekXX]

They are building threw the draft......but not that draft.....nope not this one.......6 years down the line will be the draft for us!! Another fucking year of tanking, y'all know they ain't pulling a big move this summer.

[TekXX]

lol all the comments about dadiet, Knicks took him.

[heyheymymy]

feels like some copium but really after scoring Castle who seems very promising for SA I don't know if I liked any other options anyway. We got to 8 I was actually kinda sweating having to take one of these choices:

Buzelis
Dillingham
Williams
Knecht

??? Some interesting names for sure but who there are we really missing out on? Shit Salaun would've been a gamble, they all were gambles. Outside Castle/Risacher/Sheppard I'm not crying about missing any other 2024 draft names.

[Russ]

So Dadiem is gone.

This draft is going . . .

[Robz4000]

A for Ass?

Got the BPA at 4 and traded 8 for two future firsts which I wanted them to do with both picks but managed to get essentially two unprotected firsts just for 8. I'm pretty satisfied tbh.

[TekXX]

OKC making moves, not afraid to draft. Gawd imagine if we had Presti as our GM again.

[Mnky]

No thank you

Hypothetically, youd take dilly over dejounte or trae?

This is why fans are fans.

[Chinook]

OKC apparently has room for two first-rounders, but the Spurs can't seem to allow competition for the dregs of their roster.

[heyheymymy]

I will say Carter/Salaun/Dillingham/Williams in that order wouldn't have been the worst in the world but not going to lose sleep over that level of talent if we opt out

As a sniffer and a disciple of franchise flexibility my faith was a little shaken tonight lol but we can't get hamfisted. So impatient like you all are too and I just want to be done with it so I'm like just grab Dilly but that's how you pint yourself into a corner.

So I guess we are still keeping that powered dry but let me point out that at this point, that's some really fucking dry powder in San Antonio lol. Hope FA gets the cannonball lol

[TekXX]

OKC apparently has room for two first-rounders, but the Spurs can't seem to allow competition for the dregs of their roster.

Which has the better trajectory, and which one has been stuck in the mud for 10 years?

[vy65]

Hypothetically, youd take dilly over dejounte or trae?

This is why fans are fans.

Yes. He’s a much cheaper, albeit lesser, version of Trae. Dejounte is not a needle mover for me.

[SpursFan86]

OKC flipping five random SRPs for another first. Meanwhile we’ll just keep perpetually selling our SRPs for cash or future SRPs :lol

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we trade out of 35.

[scottspurs]

Well passed on Buzelis and Cody Williams. Drafted Dillingham only to trade. If you are team tank this was a great draft. Stephon Castle PG experiment should help the tank. I think he will be useful role player just don’t see him as a PG as of now. Spurs choose to go the route of being a more defensive oriented team. Not having another top ten pick in this draft opens up cap space for the spurs to take on a bad contract and receive even more draft capital. Meh vey lukewarm conclusion to the night, but let’s see how the rest of the off-season goes. Maybe the Spurs are thinking 2025 is their year to strike and go all in. Maybe they saw this as a weak draft and weak free agency I didn’t see a path to success in the West this season. I think they more so punted on this draft than them actually thinking those T-wolves assets having value. Hard to feel positive but it’s going to hard to screw up this process with Wemby.

[scott]

Got the BPA at 4 and traded 8 for two future firsts which I wanted them to do with both picks but managed to get essentially two unprotected firsts just for 8. I'm pretty satisfied tbh.

We didn't get two unprotected first. We got one, and a swap. A swap is not a pick.

It's one thing to punt out of the draft, but this is a straight F on value.

[Mnky]

feels like some copium but really after scoring Castle who seems very promising for SA I don't know if I liked any other options anyway. We got to 8 I was actually kinda sweating having to take one of these choices:

Buzelis
Dillingham
Williams
Knecht

??? Some interesting names for sure but who there are we really missing out on? Shit Salaun would've been a gamble, they all were gambles. Outside Castle/Risacher/Sheppard I'm not crying about missing any other 2024 draft names.

I think salaun was the option they would have stayed put for. Outside of that, I agree. Most of these guys would be pick 20+ in most drafts. This draft is really weak for high draft picks.

I think most people are just bummed they don't have another new toy to watch. Castle is a great investment and could be the best player in the draft as much as anyone else.

[Chinook]

Does anyone need to point out that Malaki Branham is more useful this year than every guard in this draft?

I hope you're right, but the same people who seem to think that are the ones who thought Primo was so valuable it was worth suppressing sexual-harassment accusations to protect him. It's getting harder and hard for me to put stock into their ability to identify keepers.

[SpursFan86]

Go and grab fucking Collier. Would redeem the stupid trade from 8.

[scott]

OKC apparently has room for two first-rounders, but the Spurs can't seem to allow competition for the dregs of their roster.

We cannot afford to dig into those Wesley/Bassey minutes.

[jesterbobman]

I think both BacktoBasics and I (who he's replying to) agree that it's selling low. I can get that it's efficient in moving from a pick counting against the salary cap to one that won't, but, even in a weak draft, it was #8. You should be able to get something more than a pick and a swap.

[Mnky]

Yes. He’s a much cheaper, albeit lesser, version of Trae. Dejounte is not a needle mover for me.

Dejounte has become a big time player with all eyes on him.

Trae has led his team to the eastern conference finals.


Dilly will be a rookie who played against backups in college and likely unplayable in any meaningful minutes such as the playoffs when teams game plan. You can't hide him on defense and nba defenders will be a lot different than college backups.

Dilly would have been fun, but he's not even an NBA player yet. I'd take the proven guys any day.

[scott]

Well passed on Buzelis and Cody Williams. Drafted Dillingham only to trade. If you are team tank this was a great draft. Stephon Castle PG experiment should help the tank. I think he will be useful role player just don’t see him as a PG as of now. Spurs choose to go the route of being a more defensive oriented team. Not having another top ten pick in this draft opens up cap space for the spurs to take on a bad contract and receive even more draft capital. Meh vey lukewarm conclusion to the night, but let’s see how the rest of the off-season goes. Maybe the Spurs are thinking 2025 is their year to strike and go all in. Maybe they saw this as a weak draft and weak free agency I didn’t see a path to success in the West this season. I think they more so punted on this draft than them actually thinking those T-wolves assets having value. Hard to feel positive but it’s going to hard to screw up this process with Wemby.

Nailed it. This is a total tank move, unless we hear about another deal coming down the pipe (which I doubt). There are no FA worth adding space for - I can see us being a salary dumping ground, yet again. It's exhausting loving this team as of late.

[sfernald]

Let’s all say a short prayer for Charlotte who saved us from getting Tiddy-Fucked today!

[Chinook]

That the Wolves got Shannon at 27 just makes it sting even more. Shannon was probably the second-best perimeter dynamo in this draft after Dillingham. If you told me the Spurs got him and a future unprotected for from Minny for Dilly, I wouldn't be elated, but I would understand. But instead, the Spurs seemingly put a huge emphasis on swaps, and Minny somehow adds both dynamos to their team.

[blackbucket]

I hope you're right, but the same people who seem to think that are the ones who thought Primo was so valuable it was worth suppressing sexual-harassment accusations to protect him. It's getting harder and hard for me to put stock into their ability to identify keepers.

Agreed. B Wright has had more negative drafts than positive. His greatest accomplishment was depleting the team to tank for Vic. That has bought him at least 3 more years.

[onechance87]

That the Wolves got Shannon at 27 just makes it sting even more. Shannon was probably the second-best perimeter dynamo in this draft after Dillingham. If you told me the Spurs got him and a future unprotected for from Minny for Dilly, I wouldn't be elated, but I would understand. But instead, the Spurs seemingly put a huge emphasis on swaps, and Minny somehow adds both dynamos to their team.

yea wtf did the spurs just do.

[Degoat]

Should be a decent prospect available at 35 tomorrow if we don’t trade it to the Twolves lol

[baseline bum]

Got the BPA at 4 and traded 8 for two future firsts which I wanted them to do with both picks but managed to get essentially two unprotected firsts just for 8. I'm pretty satisfied tbh.

It's one unprotected 2031 first and a protected 2030 swap whose protection has yet to be revealed.

[vy65]

Nailed it. This is a total tank move, unless we hear about another deal coming down the pipe (which I doubt). There are no FA worth adding space for - I can see us being a salary dumping ground, yet again. It's exhausting loving this team as of late.

I mean, just fuck that. Wemby is a top 10 player. He alone probably prevents you from having a top 5 worst record. I get that next years draft is better, but is #8 or #10 next year really going to move the needle and vault us into contention?

People are quick to point to OKC as our model. How many top 10 picks did they punt 7 years out on when they were in the thick of losing? I don’t know, but strongly suspect that number is 0.

Meanwhile, you’re asking an ascending Wemby to stomach yet another year of tinkering (lol Castle PG experiment). How much goodwill does he have? Are the 2025-2026 spurs in the playoffs? Play in? I doubt it at this rate.

If you have a generational player, you should have a plan. Short of a trade this offseason, tanking yet another year is not a fucking plan.

[Atl Spur]

lol…….. you win with vets and young talent sprinkled in. We got two more picks to leverage in a trade with teams that will be desperate in the future. We’ll make a few moves this offseason …… sit tight!

[vy65]

It's one unprotected 2031 first and a protected 2030 swap whose protection has yet to be revealed.

It’s top-1 protected I think.

[LeBowen]

It's one unprotected 2031 first and a protected 2030 swap whose protection has yet to be revealed.

It's just top1 protection.

[HankChinaski]

Adema Bona, Tyler Smith, Cam Christie, Furphy, Filipowski, Klintman, Edwards, Nunez, off the top of my head that could be some decent reaches in the 2nd round at 35 tomorrow afternoon.

[Seventyniner]

For better or worse, the Spurs just plain don't appear to be trying to win now. That view can change a lot depending on how free agency goes but I'm not expecting much at this point.

I didn't really like Dillingham's fit with the team, but punting the pick not just down the road but out of the fucking stadium is strange at best and insane at worst.

[baseline bum]

Honestly not a bad night after some time to think about it.

Actually was kinda sweating as # 8 rolled around because I didn't really like the remaining choices so much after Salaun was busted up and I kinda wanted out. So glad we didn't take Matas wow what a dodged bullet and shows that SA didn't view Buze as a desirable option. But when Dilly was called it kinda made sense and I got excited. Even before they announced the trade I was already kinda getting buyers remorse about defensive woes.

In the end Castle was my #1 and I got what I wanted big time. Outside of Carter/Williams and maybe Dillingham I didn't really even want # 8 and of those choices I think I'd pick just trading out so since that's what happened I can't complain. Like someone else said, I think I just wanted the two toys and felt robbed by the trade. Even though I was well aware one pick could be traded away. What a waste of time looking at combos lol

My only issue now is the suspicion that CHA picked Salaun vindictively and I took that personally. Let's see: Salaun was a stretch at 8 so he was a huge reach at 6. CHA wanted Castle reportedly. So did CHA get mad at SA for taking Castle and then took Salaun as payback? Oh well, it's for the best, Salaun is going to be a lot of work to get up and running and I hope Hornets fucking choke on the development needs. It's probably best that he wasn't picked for SA.

Charlotte's a pretty awful franchise but can't imagine they'd cut off their nose to spite their face like that just because the Spurs were two spots ahead of them and took the guy they wanted most. I suspect Salaun was a smokescreen anyways just like Carter and that maybe Holland was their target all along at #8 or they were hoping to take Clingan and flip him somewhere.

[SpurSpike]

Does anyone need to point out that Malaki Branham is more useful this year than every guard in this draft?

What? Lol, no. Branham has been a huge disappointment both may suck at defence but at least Dillingham can dribble and score.

[TekXX]

Jay Bilas mocking us on ESPN.

[Robz4000]

We didn't get two unprotected first. We got one, and a swap. A swap is not a pick.

It's one thing to punt out of the draft, but this is a straight F on value.

An unprotected swap at that point for the Spurs should basically be a first if all goes to plan. Swapping a late first for a top 5 pick is huge.

[SpursGenius]

It’s an absolute pathetic front office

[blackbucket]

Jay Bilas said props to the Spurs to be able to scout 11 and 12 year olds. How embarrassing. Brian Wright was and is a bad hire from jump. He can dump players but drafting is not his forte.

[Robz4000]

It's one unprotected 2031 first and a protected 2030 swap whose protection has yet to be revealed.

:wow thought it was the swap that was unprotected. Even better tbh.

[z0sa]

Spurs look like a poor franchise duping their best player and their fans rn, unfortunately

[scott]

Jay Bilas mocking us on ESPN.

As he should, tbh.

[onechance87]

Adema Bona, Tyler Smith, Cam Christie, Furphy, Filipowski, Klintman, Edwards, Nunez, off the top of my head that could be some decent reaches in the 2nd round at 35 tomorrow afternoon.

kolek,djusuric,furphy,smith....Spurs better not sale that pick

[bevo]

I think the Dilly trade is more ammo for a trade. I don't think this is the end of it.

[scott]

An unprotected swap at that point for the Spurs should basically be a first if all goes to plan. Swapping a late first for a top 5 pick is huge.

What's the value of a 2030 unprotected swap? It's worth a salary dump of Reggie Bullock, which is how we got a 2030 unprotected swap from Dallas last offseason.

[heyheymymy]

CIA Pop probably paid CHA to take Salaun so they could be like Dang Victor we tried man but those snakes in Charlotte got there first!

Prob did the same thing last year with Bilal lol

[heyheymymy]

Furphy with 35 would go a long way to redeem this draft imho

[Robz4000]

What's the value of a 2030 unprotected swap? It's worth a salary dump of Reggie Bullock, which is how we got a 2030 unprotected swap from Dallas last offseason.

Better to trade that swap than a swap of one of the Spurs' future picks in a trade down the line tbh. If they still have it once they get closer to 2030 it could have much more value too since teams will have a clear look at that draft.

[heyheymymy]

You could bundle the MIN picks into a big trade and it would help preserve your existing picks

I like the move if it's just rolling the 8 into a pick bundle you can then throw on the trade fire + maybe a few pre existing 2RPs SA needs to start unloading anyway and maaaaybe the CHA FRP all could be included.

That's how you get the big OG/Siakam/Bridges type moves as someone pointed out above.

[SpursFan86]

Furphy or Bona would both be solid picks at 35. Probably could trade it for 600k cash instead though - that seems pretty appealing.

[heyheymymy]

CIA Pop probably paid CHA to take Salaun so they could be like Dang Victor we tried man but those snakes in Charlotte got there first!

Prob did the same thing last year with Bilal lol

like when the kid wants a drum set and you don't want to get them one but you hate to let them down and say no but then the store is all sold out and it's like dang buddy we tried!!

[scottspurs]

I’m not going to get excited about the talent heading into the 2nd round only to watch the spurs trade 35 for 3 future 2nds lol

[baseline bum]

It’s top-1 protected I think.


It's just top1 protection.

I take back my bitching then, getting a swap protected only against #1 is huge. Was thinking the swap would have some serious lottery protection the way it was reported initially. Definitely a couple of nice trade pieces to go after a vet at some point. As much as I would have liked Buzelis or taking a swing on Cody Williams the trade is reasonable getting assets like that.

[BacktoBasics]

What's the value of a 2030 unprotected swap? It's worth a salary dump of Reggie Bullock, which is how we got a 2030 unprotected swap from Dallas last offseason.

Out of all the outrage here this is the most candid and on point argument about value.

You’re not wrong.

I just look at this move as loading up picks that become the final negotiating position for big trades. Today or two years from now.

The ability to add the sweetener at the end of the framework of a trade that is close to completion has to be why they made a move like this. They value adding picks like this to a Bridges or Siakam type trade over a guy like Dilly.

With that said I wanted Dilly but I get the logic and I they view it as a final piece to a trade vs a singular example such as Bullock.

Hard night to swallow. Even a trade back in for Shannon or Collier would have helped me sleep better tonight.

I like Castle but it’s a question mark at PG. He comes across as a glue guy not a starting pg.

[Robz4000]

I’m not going to get excited about the talent heading into the 2nd round only to watch the spurs trade 35 for 3 future 2nds lol

:lol now that would piss me off

[heyheymymy]

Charlotte's a pretty awful franchise but can't imagine they'd cut off their nose to spite their face like that just because the Spurs were two spots ahead of them and took the guy they wanted most. I suspect Salaun was a smokescreen anyways just like Carter and that maybe Holland was their target all along at #8 or they were hoping to take Clingan and flip him somewhere.

good call man and thanks for this perspective

kinda makes me wonder if Salaun really did hurt his ankle now lol

[Chinook]

Better to trade that swap than a swap of one of the Spurs' future picks in a trade down the line tbh. If they still have it once they get closer to 2030 it could have much more value too since teams will have a clear look at that draft.

That's not how swaps work. The Spurs can only trade swaps to picks they own. They can't trade a swap that another team gave them without also including their picks. Like the Spurs have one pick in 2030, which is the best of Dallas, Minny's (top-1 protected) and their natural pick. The Spurs can either trade that pick outright or let a new team take the best of their pick or (the best of SAS/MINN/DAL).

It's a bad deal. To put it into perspective, the Spurs got the 2030 Dallas swap by taking on an MLE's worth of salary and moving four firsts. This year they got a worse swap as half the payment for a top-10 pick. It's bad. It's made worse by the fact that SA might well be renting their space again and might be another swap or two for the trouble. Just awful stuff.

[FireMicoHalili]

Jay Bilas mocking us on ESPN.
how’s his batting rate on NBA prospects?

[Robz4000]

That's not how swaps work. The Spurs can only trade swaps to picks they own. They can't trade a swap that another team gave them without also including their picks. Like the Spurs have one pick in 2030, which is the best of Dallas, Minny's (top-1 protected) and their natural pick. The Spurs can either trade that pick outright or let a new team take the best of their pick or (the best of SAS/MINN/DAL).

It's a bad deal. To put it into perspective, the Spurs got the 2030 Dallas swap by taking on an MLE's worth of salary and moving four firsts. This year they got a worse swap as half the payment for a top-10 pick. It's bad. It's made worse by the fact that SA might well be renting their space again and might be another swap or two for the trouble. Just awful stuff.

It's bad if you legit liked one of the options available at 8 but I've been adamant about trading the picks in this draft for months now tbh. You're right about the swap, but it does add value to the pick since instead of it being just the Spurs' pick it can be the best of the three.

[Chinook]

I just hate that the Spurs keep doubling down on this roster, from the picks they keep not making, to the decision to sell cap space for very little, to the extensions they handed out to Vassell and Collins. How long do they think great cores tend to be bad? When are they going to realize they don't have a good core. They have a franchise player and exactly one player who can currently hold his jock. Castle and Sochan can change that play some support while having potential, and Jones and Johnson do a yeoman's job. But they are not at the level where they should be looking at top-10 picks as extraneous. If they want to play at the margins and take on some salary here and there, that's find. OKC was doing that even while they were a playoff team. But this approach is beyond the pale.

[Chinook]

It's bad if you legit liked one of the options available at 8 but I've been adamant about trading the picks in this draft for months now tbh. You're right about the swap, but it does add value to the pick since instead of it being just the Spurs' pick it can be the best of the three.

It was already the best of two. It adds value in the same way the Charlotte pick adds value. They're closer in value than the swap is to a real first.

[spurraider21]

Wright is just a coward

[Robz4000]

It was already the best of two. It adds value in the same way the Charlotte pick adds value. They're closer in value than the swap is to a real first.

Best of three > best of two, especially when you consider how little both Dallas and Minny have in future draft capital to improve their teams. I generally agree with you on most things but I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Mnky]

What? Lol, no. Branham has been a huge disappointment both may suck at defence but at least Dillingham can dribble and score.

Statistically, he was one of the best scorers from his draft class last year. He was pick 20. No pick from 15 down has a higher ppg than him. Only a couple from 10 down.

Offensively, he's been everything he was advertised to be. A bucket. For a 20th pick, he has been pretty good, especially in comparison to those drafted after him.

He's a traffic cone on defense and why im not a big fan of him but he even showed improvements there.

He's still just 21 years old. As a starter in the NBA, he averaged 11 ppg.

Expectations for these young prospects are so unrealistic.

[Robz4000]

Wright is just a coward

Still holding out hope he won't be the GM for long tbh.

[DAF86]

I think salaun was the option they would have stayed put for. Outside of that, I agree. Most of these guys would be pick 20+ in most drafts. This draft is really weak for high draft picks.

I think most people are just bummed they don't have another new toy to watch. Castle is a great investment and could be the best player in the draft as much as anyone else.

If this is true, then these guys aren't even good at preventing leaks for their plans. Just ineptitude all around.

[SpursFan86]

Wright is just a coward

Feels like that. Easier to make BS moves over and over again in circles. Take on salary cap and act like you’re smart for stockpiling assets, and then when it’s time to put those assets to work just trade them for other assets further out in the future.

[baseline bum]

:wow thought it was the swap that was unprotected. Even better tbh.

1806131024855781532

Yeah gotta flip to full sniffer mode now seeing how good the swap is. Those are some legit assets that could land someone big in trade.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Wright is just a coward

He's not a coward. He's just unqualified for the role he is in but he's Pop's pet GM project.

[CitizenDwayne]

I can’t even be hyped for Castle. Just a total disaster.

“We didn’t like the options at 8.” Wtf there’s like 4 good players on the team, why be choosy now all of a sudden

[TekXX]

He's not a coward. He's just unqualified for the role he is in but he's Pop's pet GM project.

So like a Jerry Jones situation? Don't bring in a guy that's going to have an opinion and challenge you?

[baseline bum]

I think salaun was the option they would have stayed put for. Outside of that, I agree. Most of these guys would be pick 20+ in most drafts. This draft is really weak for high draft picks.

I think most people are just bummed they don't have another new toy to watch. Castle is a great investment and could be the best player in the draft as much as anyone else.

Probably a smoke screen, just like Carter clearly was. All the talk about how impressive Carter was in his workout against Castle and not a peep about how Castle looked. Then the bullshit to Don Harris about JaKobe Walter. Wonder if Holland was their actual target at 8.

[TekXX]

I can’t even be hyped for Castle. Just a total disaster.

“We didn’t like the options at 8.” Wtf there’s like 4 good players on the team, why be choosy now all of a sudden

Holts and Co don't want to pay $ for what was left, they'd much rather spend money on their business ventures like the country club

[FireMicoHalili]

1806131024855781532

Yeah gotta flip to full sniffer mode now seeing how good the swap is. Those are some legit assets that could land someone big in trade.
this is Wemby’s seventh year. Will probably help them make a swing for another star by then.

Lots of disappointment from this forum, though I’m sure the FO has done their due diligence. It might’ve been a bad decision for this year’s draft but not for the team’s long-term flexibility.

[poopbox]

Spurs look like a poor franchise duping their best player and their fans rn, unfortunately

That's exactly what they are.

The only teams who have loss more than us over the last few years are the piston and the wizards, both bottom of the barrel franchises who have won nothing.

When we tell our grand children about the titles we won in the 2010's they won't believe it because by then the spurs will be entering their 45 consecutive losing season.

[Mr. Body]

You guys realize there were like 30 people in the Spurs draft room, right? Unless Wright was training a pistol on all of them, this was a group decision.

[poopbox]

this is Wemby’s seventh year. Will probably help them make a swing for another star by then.

Lots of disappointment from this forum, though I’m sure the FO has done their due diligence. It might’ve been a bad decision for this year’s draft but not for the team’s long-term flexibility.

At this rate he'll be on another team by then TBH.

[Mugen]

I just hate that the Spurs keep doubling down on this roster, from the picks they keep not making, to the decision to sell cap space for very little, to the extensions they handed out to Vassell and Collins. How long do they think great cores tend to be bad? When are they going to realize they don't have a good core. They have a franchise player and exactly one player who can currently hold his jock. Castle and Sochan can change that play some support while having potential, and Jones and Johnson do a yeoman's job. But they are not at the level where they should be looking at top-10 picks as extraneous. If they want to play at the margins and take on some salary here and there, that's find. OKC was doing that even while they were a playoff team. But this approach is beyond the pale.

This. I hate what this trade implies about their approach during the next few years. If the assets end up netting them a big fish then good on them. But I have absolutely zero faith in Wright’s ability to actually build a contender.

[LeBowen]

All I know is that we need some wing shooters.
They better make it happen.
#35, trade, free agency, I don't care.

[Mr. Body]

Statistically, he was one of the best scorers from his draft class last year. He was pick 20. No pick from 15 down has a higher ppg than him. Only a couple from 10 down.

Offensively, he's been everything he was advertised to be. A bucket. For a 20th pick, he has been pretty good, especially in comparison to those drafted after him.

He's a traffic cone on defense and why im not a big fan of him but he even showed improvements there.

He's still just 21 years old. As a starter in the NBA, he averaged 11 ppg.

Expectations for these young prospects are so unrealistic.

I liked what I saw from Branham in the second half of the year. He was doing the two things I really wanted him to do: not give up on plays, disengage on defense and work harder, and let fly from deep. Still a work in progress, but that was just his second year.

[DAF86]

1806131024855781532

Yeah gotta flip to full sniffer mode now seeing how good the swap is. Those are some legit assets that could land someone big in trade.

The only way they become legit assets is if Minnesota, with Edwards in his absolute prime, is bad 6 years from now. If not, you just traded #8 for #29.

[Mnky]

Probably a smoke screen, just like Carter clearly was. All the talk about how impressive Carter was in his workout against Castle and not a peep about how Castle looked. Then the bullshit to Don Harris about JaKobe Walter. Wonder if Holland was their actual target at 8.


I don't think Carter was a smokescreen, just due diligence. Every team Carter worked with raved about him. He's older, smaller, and hasn't developed very well at the pg position. Struggled with top tier defenses that'll he will see a lot more of in the NBA. Tough to spend a top 10 lottery pick on that when you already have younger prospects that won't cost 8 Mil a year.

[SPURt]

My biggest problem with the trade is the bet against Ant Edwards. The Spurs are betting a 29 year old Ant Edwards is gonna provide a pick better or equal to the 8th pick in this weak draft. I don’t see it.

[TekXX]

You guys realize there were like 30 people in the Spurs draft room, right? Unless Wright was training a pistol on all of them, this was a group decision.

That's nice but ultimately it's his arse on the line because he has the title.

[FireMicoHalili]

At this rate he'll be on another team by then TBH.
and Minnesota could be a lottery team by then, if we’re going by hypotheticals. Regardless where Wemby is by then the pick itself is still pretty valuable.

[TekXX]

This is like a twilight zone episode, you get Wemby, but you're stuck with a incompetent FO for years

[Mnky]

I liked what I saw from Branham in the second half of the year. He was doing the two things I really wanted him to do: not give up on plays, disengage on defense and work harder, and let fly from deep. Still a work in progress, but that was just his second year.

That low release on the 3 ball is my main gripe with him on offense. He'd get blocked 2 or 3 times some games with it. He can get away with it inside the arc with his craftiness though. He's definitely a good prospect. Teams have to have a bench that can score to compete. He could be a very valuable bench player, a better patty mills type.

[rascal]

So are they or are they not building through the draft like you claim they're trying to do? You seem to love to make this claim. Looks to me like they just keep trading picks for more picks. Rinse, repeat.

Yes, the core will be their draft picks. They wanted Salaun and when he was taken they moved the pick for two future picks.

[vy65]

This. I hate what this trade implies about their approach during the next few years. If the assets end up netting them a big fish then good on them. But I have absolutely zero faith in Wright’s ability to actually build a contender.

https://x.com/jmcdonald_saen/status/1806173002284834907?s=46&t=_hOkVHptcbAMOAEHj_SvkA

[rascal]

Anyone who knows the Spurs should have known they weren't going to put a high value on a small guard like Dillingham.

No surprise they drafted him for someone else.

[poopbox]

and Minnesota could be a lottery team by then, if we’re going by hypotheticals. Regardless where Wemby is by then the pick itself is still pretty valuable.

There is 0 value in a pick that far out. If the Spurs made that pick available in a trade this off season they are getting almost nothing for it. Which is why Minnesota was fine giving it to the Spurs. Because you know, they could care less about worrying how things might be for them in 6 and 7 years.

If I cared enough about this team I would be alarmed at the simple things our front office has failed to grasp. In order for some teams to make good deals, some other teams have to make bad ones. At least we'll always have the Duncan era.

[FvckMavs]

The only way they become legit assets is if Minnesota, with Edwards in his absolute prime, is bad 6 years from now. If not, you just traded #8 for #29.

7 years ago in 2017 we were battling GSW in Western finals with GSW won the NBA title that year. Ever since we have been in lottery for years while GSW missed playoff 3 times in the last five years. KAT will be 35 years old by then. A lot of things may happen in 6-7 years.

[Chinook]

So what's the "ideal" conservative path forward here?

They hit on one of the decent players still around at 35 like Smith, Filipowski, Mitchell, Klintman or Kolek. Then, they use their cap space to bring in a rotational forward whose team might want to trade him for salary relief (Barnes, Hunter, Wiggins) and their RE to bring in a caretaker wing for the bench (Richardson or Graham)

Castle, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Branham
Barnes, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Smith, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

I mean, IS this the worst-case scenario? No. Castle probably shouldn't be starting, but if they love him so much he might end up doing it anyway. The bench isn't horrible, but the lack of spacing in that first unit feels like a fatal flaw. It's sad that it's more realistic that the Spurs sell their cap space for an insta-waive and a few seconds after selling off the seconds they already have this year for cash.

[Chinook]

https://x.com/jmcdonald_saen/status/1806173002284834907?s=46&t=_hOkVHptcbAMOAEHj_SvkA

My brain basically exploded inside my skull from the sure implication of that.

[baseline bum]

I don't think Carter was a smokescreen, just due diligence. Every team Carter worked with raved about him. He's older, smaller, and hasn't developed very well at the pg position. Struggled with top tier defenses that'll he will see a lot more of in the NBA. Tough to spend a top 10 lottery pick on that when you already have younger prospects that won't cost 8 Mil a year.

Being loud on Carter and mum on the guy Castle they actually wanted sounds like a smokescreen to me. Can't believe any of this shit you hear about the Spurs at draft time. :lol

[baseline bum]

So what's the "ideal" conservative path forward here?

They hit on one of the decent players still around at 35 like Smith, Filipowski, Mitchell, Klintman or Kolek. Then, they use their cap space to bring in a rotational forward whose team might want to trade him for salary relief (Barnes, Hunter, Wiggins) and their RE to bring in a caretaker wing for the bench (Richardson or Graham)

Castle, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Branham
Barnes, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Smith, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

I mean, IS this the worst-case scenario? No. Castle probably shouldn't be starting, but if they love him so much he might end up doing it anyway. The bench isn't horrible, but the lack of spacing in that first unit feels like a fatal flaw. It's sad that it's more realistic that the Spurs sell their cap space for an insta-waive and a few seconds after selling off the seconds they already have this year for cash.

In that scenario I think Barnes might be your starting 4, though not sure Castle is going to get the starting job right away so maybe the point is moot.

[BackHome]

Furphy with 35 would go a long way to redeem this draft imho

Yeah, I would use some of our seconds to get him - Some other players I really like would be:
Klintman -SF/PF
Mogbo - PF
Scheierman - SF
AJ Mitchell -PG/SG
Djurisic -SG/SF

[DAF86]

7 years ago in 2017 we were battling GSW in Western finals with GSW won the NBA title that year. Ever since we have been in lottery for years while GSW missed playoff 3 times in the last five years. KAT will be 35 years old by then. A lot of things may happen in 6-7 years.

We didn't have a 24 year old, healthy, superstar back then, tbh.

Also, let's say the best scenario materializes and the Wolves suck. How much does a rookie (even a lottery one) is really gonna help Wemby while he's, hopefully, contending for championships?

The absolute best case scenario is that those picks turn into Anthony Edwards somewhere down the road. If that happens, then I will apologize and personally flight to San Antonio just to suck Brian Wright's dick.

[Mr. Body]

My biggest problem with the trade is the bet against Ant Edwards. The Spurs are betting a 29 year old Ant Edwards is gonna provide a pick better or equal to the 8th pick in this weak draft. I don’t see it.

What I forget is that Utah has all their picks either outright or swaps, although it looks like they still have their 2028. They can make moves, but they've been stripped of remaking the roster with much by way of the draft.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I would use some of our seconds to get him - Some other players I really like would be:
Klintman -SF/PF
Mogbo - PF
Scheierman - SF
AJ Mitchell -PG/SG
Djurisic -SG/SF

Boston took Scheierman.

[DAF86]

"Personally fly" fuck the no edit function, tbh.

[scott]

That's not how swaps work. The Spurs can only trade swaps to picks they own. They can't trade a swap that another team gave them without also including their picks. Like the Spurs have one pick in 2030, which is the best of Dallas, Minny's (top-1 protected) and their natural pick. The Spurs can either trade that pick outright or let a new team take the best of their pick or (the best of SAS/MINN/DAL).

It's a bad deal. To put it into perspective, the Spurs got the 2030 Dallas swap by taking on an MLE's worth of salary and moving four firsts. This year they got a worse swap as half the payment for a top-10 pick. It's bad. It's made worse by the fact that SA might well be renting their space again and might be another swap or two for the trouble. Just awful stuff.

To put an extra fine point on the value of a swap, this article does a great job of articulating it: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/10/12/23399637/nba-draft-swap-picks

For those who don't want to bother reading - historically, a swap turns out to be equal value to an early second rounder.

So the Spurs traded (on value) a Top-10 pick for a unprotected FRP 7 years from now and an early SRP. Absolutely horrendous.

[rascal]

Spurs have accumulated enough valuable first round picks that they can put a few into a package to land a star but not sure they are looking to make a big trade like that.

It's not in their character to trade draft picks from established stars.

[vy65]

Spurs have accumulated enough valuable first round picks that they can put a few into a package to land a star but not sure they are looking to make a big trade like that.

It's not in their character to trade draft picks from established stars.

This is a good point. The next time they put one of those types of deals together will be the first time they put one of those types of deals together

[DAF86]

In that scenario I think Barnes might be your starting 4, though not sure Castle is going to get the starting job right away so maybe the point is moot.

Castle needs to start, and I'll say he needs to start at PG. Give the "Castle at PG" experiment as much times as possible, as soon as possible. That would accelerate his development. If it works, great; if it doesn't, we get a top pick in the stacked 25 draft. Win/win.

And that's it, no more tanking after 25.

[rascal]

.

[CitizenDwayne]

This is a good point. The next time they put one of those types of deals together will be the first time they put one of those types of deals together

Exactly. There’s no trade coming. They think they did a good job tonight

[scott]

Also, it's worth pointing out the obvious: accumulating more draft capital doesn't really mean much when all you do is punt it (#33 last year, #8 this year).

[The Truth #6]

That trade. Oof. Fans want to see the FO prioritize winning. Drafting Dillingham felt like an assertive statement in that direction. And then they trade it away. I didn't like losing Dillingham. Then I pondered what we received. It feels ambiguous at best. It could pay off but feels like a passive, overly cautious move.

[heyheymymy]

By that same argument Ant could be on another team by 2030

Or the picks could be traded to another team by then

Or Carter/Dillingham/Buzelis/Williams could be out of the league by then

Or equivalent to what you would select #25-30 ish from MIN 2030 somehow

[Mr. Body]

Being loud on Carter and mum on the guy Castle they actually wanted sounds like a smokescreen to me. Can't believe any of this shit you hear about the Spurs at draft time. :lol

Their deafening silence about Castle practically affirmed to me that he was their guy. "Um... Castle. Castle who? White Castle? The burger place?"

[Mr. Body]

Spurs have accumulated enough valuable first round picks that they can put a few into a package to land a star but not sure they are looking to make a big trade like that.

It's not in their character to trade draft picks from established stars.

It's not their character at all. They build through the draft.

We need to accept that their strategy is to put big bundles of resources out in the wilderness down the way. That's what this is. They're giving a shot of having a lottery pick or two when their own picks are in the late 20s.

[Trainwreck2100]

We didn't have a 24 year old, healthy, superstar back then, tbh.

Also, let's say the best scenario materializes and the Wolves suck. How much does a rookie (even a lottery one) is really gonna help Wemby while he's, hopefully, contending for championships?

The absolute best case scenario is that those picks turn into Anthony Edwards somewhere down the road. If that happens, then I will apologize and personally flight to San Antonio just to suck Brian Wright's dick.

the only teams that were in the 2017 playoffs and 2024 playoffs were the thunder and clippers and both those teams are completely different from each other in terms of personnel

[Mr. Body]

To put an extra fine point on the value of a swap, this article does a great job of articulating it: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/10/12/23399637/nba-draft-swap-picks

For those who don't want to bother reading - historically, a swap turns out to be equal value to an early second rounder.

So the Spurs traded (on value) a Top-10 pick for a unprotected FRP 7 years from now and an early SRP. Absolutely horrendous.

Eh... most swaps are just random bullshit. The swaps with Boston, Dallas, and Minny are pretty calculated accounting for where those teams might be when those drafts come up. Same way they saw where Atlanta might be when their picks start coming due.

[baseline bum]

Statistically, he was one of the best scorers from his draft class last year. He was pick 20. No pick from 15 down has a higher ppg than him. Only a couple from 10 down.

Offensively, he's been everything he was advertised to be. A bucket. For a 20th pick, he has been pretty good, especially in comparison to those drafted after him.

He's a traffic cone on defense and why im not a big fan of him but he even showed improvements there.

He's still just 21 years old. As a starter in the NBA, he averaged 11 ppg.

Expectations for these young prospects are so unrealistic.

Branham finished the season 571 out of 572 on VORP. When you're looking up almost 40 slots to James Wiseman shit is bad.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::vorp

[FireMicoHalili]

There is 0 value in a pick that far out. If the Spurs made that pick available in a trade this off season they are getting almost nothing for it. Which is why Minnesota was fine giving it to the Spurs. Because you know, they could care less about worrying how things might be for them in 6 and 7 years.

If I cared enough about this team I would be alarmed at the simple things our front office has failed to grasp. In order for some teams to make good deals, some other teams have to make bad ones. At least we'll always have the Duncan era.
there is 0 value in that pick that far out now. There will always be teams willing to blow it up and looking for draft equity to rebuild. As it stands you have a lot of players developing in the roster and just so many minutes to apportion. You have guys like Ousmane Dieng languishing in OKC.

[flox]

Kram's article is pretty bad. His swap analysis only looks at the point difference between the two of actually executed swaps - ie the value of a swap realized. He kinda gets the point a little when he talks about when a swap is actually worth it - when you have a chance to jump into a lottery winning selection. Until the swap is actually realized, there is time value and extra lottery ball value that greatly outweighs the the value at execution
.

[Obstructed_View]

I hope you're right, but the same people who seem to think that are the ones who thought Primo was so valuable it was worth suppressing sexual-harassment accusations to protect him. It's getting harder and hard for me to put stock into their ability to identify keepers.
Do we know that the Spurs did that? That they knew he did this before they drafted him?

[rascal]

It's not their character at all. They build through the draft.

We need to accept that their strategy is to put big bundles of resources out in the wilderness down the way. That's what this is. They're giving a shot of having a lottery pick or two when their own picks are in the late 20s.

Next year is the year the team starts to turn things around with next year's draft.
I expect another year of struggle and no playoffs, a 25 win team.

Spur fans are getting impatient because they aren't used to losing so many years in a row but this was going to be a slow rebuild even with Wemby.

[Obstructed_View]

What? Lol, no. Branham has been a huge disappointment both may suck at defence but at least Dillingham can dribble and score.
Dillingham may end up a better player, but probably not this year. Difference in age makes a big difference, which is why all these guys are drafted in upside.

[scott]

Eh... most swaps are just random bullshit. The swaps with Boston, Dallas, and Minny are pretty calculated accounting for where those teams might be when those drafts come up. Same way they saw where Atlanta might be when their picks start coming due.

We have swaps with:

The Current NBA Champion (whose two stars will be 30 and 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current NBA Runner-Up (whose star will be 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current WC Runner-Up (whose star will be 28 when the Swap is due)

Maybe those teams will fall off a cliff by then? But I bet it's more likely they don't. My hope is that we're swapping pick 30 for pick 20 at that point.

[TVI]

future picks..
From a team that will likely not be good in 6 years, and when the Spurs will be.

They’re positioning to be able to draft decent talent when Wemby is in his prime.

Dilly can score, but he’ll get eaten alive on defense. Despite the gloomers it’s probably the smart move in the long run.

[BatManu20]

Filipowski wasn't drafted in the 1st Round. Spurs would move up and take him early tomorrow. He and Zollins together would be the new Turd Towers and perfect for the 2025 tank tbh.

[scott]

Kram's article is pretty bad. His swap analysis only looks at the point difference between the two of actually executed swaps - ie the value of a swap realized. He kinda gets the point a little when he talks about when a swap is actually worth it - when you have a chance to jump into a lottery winning selection. Until the swap is actually realized, there is time value and extra lottery ball value that greatly outweighs the the value at execution
.

That's the precise way to value you. Yes, the swap really pays off in the extremely rare event that the team giving up the swap lands high in the lottery... yet our Swaps happen to be with the 3 current best teams in the league, all of whom will have stars still in their prime when the Swaps come due.

The odds appear rather long that those swaps will yield lottery balls... but yeah, anything can happen. It's typically not wise to place all your bets on long shots though.

[TVI]

Next year is the year the team starts to turn things around with next year's draft.
I expect another year of struggle and no playoffs, a 25 win team.

Spur fans are getting impatient because they aren't used to losing so many years in a row but this was going to be a slow rebuild even with Wemby.

Barring an injury to Wemby, the Spurs will be close to a .500 team next year, with a legitimate shot at making the playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

We have swaps with:

The Current NBA Champion (whose two stars will be 30 and 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current NBA Runner-Up (whose star will be 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current WC Runner-Up (whose star will be 28 when the Swap is due)

Maybe those teams will fall off a cliff by then? But I bet it's more likely they don't. My hope is that we're swapping pick 30 for pick 20 at that point.

They're all going to be facing big apron problems. I haven't looked at Boston but the others have leveraged all their future picks for the present. There are ways out, but the likely outcomes are what we see with GSW right now.

[offset formation]

We have swaps with:

The Current NBA Champion (whose two stars will be 30 and 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current NBA Runner-Up (whose star will be 31 when the Swap is due)
The Current WC Runner-Up (whose star will be 28 when the Swap is due)

Maybe those teams will fall off a cliff by then? But I bet it's more likely they don't. My hope is that we're swapping pick 30 for pick 20 at that point.

Yeah, I just don't see what they're thinking. Unless of course they think all those SRPs mean a thing.

[Obstructed_View]

That low release on the 3 ball is my main gripe with him on offense. He'd get blocked 2 or 3 times some games with it. He can get away with it inside the arc with his craftiness though. He's definitely a good prospect. Teams have to have a bench that can score to compete. He could be a very valuable bench player, a better patty mills type.

Um...whut?

[heyheymymy]

From a team that will likely not be good in 6 years, and when the Spurs will be.

They’re positioning to be able to draft decent talent when Wemby is in his prime.

Dilly can score, but he’ll get eaten alive on defense. Despite the gloomers it’s probably the smart move in the long run.

Great post thank you. these moves are promising and seem to imply SA thinks they'll be contending. Those FRPs and swaps will be like water in the desert when Wemby is contributing to wins. Remember in the Big 3 era Spurs always had #29s or so. Or you can trade the picks for established players.

MIN has some major problems. The money is not sustainable and even now they couldn't get past a flawed DAL team in the post season. Ant is a bad ass and I don't like betting against him as others have said. But six seasons is a long time away lol and MIN is a house of cards already with the jury still out on the double big configuration plus KAT is fools gold as a top 3 option and Ant is a bit of a knucklehead as talented as he is. You could say it's a good bet although I def hear the arguments that's it's a bad bet for sure.

SA was never going to take a Dilly type. Bad fit on the court and in the locker room imo. Dilly takes the ball out of Wemby's hands and he's a sugar rush of offense before the inevitable blood crash of poor defense sets in.

[Proxy]

From a team that will likely not be good in 6 years, and when the Spurs will be.

They’re positioning to be able to draft decent talent when Wemby is in his prime.

Dilly can score, but he’ll get eaten alive on defense. Despite the gloomers it’s probably the smart move in the long run.

Was I "glooming?" lol

[CitizenDwayne]

Dillingham may end up a better player, but probably not this year. Difference in age makes a big difference, which is why all these guys are drafted in upside.

Branham averaged 9pts on 43%? You don’t think Dilly could top that his first year? I think some people in the front office and on this board seriously overrate the talent of the guys surrounding Wemby. There’s a reason this team is still horrible in spite of him

[spurraider21]

By that same argument Ant could be on another team by 2030

Or the picks could be traded to another team by then

Or Carter/Dillingham/Buzelis/Williams could be out of the league by then

Or equivalent to what you would select #25-30 ish from MIN 2030 somehow
Or Wemby could be a laker by then

[FireMicoHalili]

Or Wemby could be a laker by then
and he leaves because the Spurs traded away Dillingham?

[spurraider21]

and he leaves because the Spurs traded away Dillingham?
Probably not that specific, no. He leaves because he has no faith the FO can or intends to help him

[Obstructed_View]

Branham averaged 9pts on 43%? You don’t think Dilly could top that his first year? I think some people in the front office and on this board seriously overrate the talent of the guys surrounding Wemby. There’s a reason this team is still horrible in spite of him
It isn't talent. It's age. Dillingham might put up more points where he gets more minutes and more shots.
The point is not to overrate the Spurs' current talent, but to caution you against overrating the contribution of a 19 year old.

[Obstructed_View]

Probably not that specific, no. He leaves because he has no faith the FO can or intends to help him
He will leave because of this shit coaching staff long before that.

[heyheymymy]

Or Wemby could be a laker by then

you mean the guy who said the concept of Las Vegas repulsed him and goes to bed at 8pm

although I do agree you def want to keep #1 happy

[flox]

That's the precise way to value you. Yes, the swap really pays off in the extremely rare event that the team giving up the swap lands high in the lottery... yet our Swaps happen to be with the 3 current best teams in the league, all of whom will have stars still in their prime when the Swaps come due.

The odds appear rather long that those swaps will yield lottery balls... but yeah, anything can happen. It's typically not wise to place all your bets on long shots though.
I 100% disagree though on the long shot bets thesis. A manufactured derivative asset with home-run upside value is exactly the type of asset necessary in today's NBA. With how much these finance analytics types guys value things, artifical notional value assets are extremely valuable, especially in an top heavy asset market. You need a top 15 guy to win an NBA championship and usually multiple. The longshot bets to grab them is worth more in an NBA market compared to a normal market considering how top heavy the NBA is. It's the whole reason why swaps are hot and worth way more than what Kram's article is alluding to.

Another way to look at it as that the teams that gave us the swaps manufactured as much value as possible to win the championship with their current cache of top 15 players, and they are willing to generate as much notional value from their assets as possible to keep their current window open. Our moves today are a clear indication that our window is not yet open from the FO's perspective and that we are in the market to add notional value rather than spend it. I understand if people here disagree and think our window is open and we should be cashing in, but I 100% disagree that from a value standpoint the trade was bad.

[CitizenDwayne]

It isn't talent. It's age. Dillingham might put up more points where he gets more minutes and more shots.
The point is not to overrate the Spurs' current talent, but to caution you against overrating the contribution of a 19 year old.

Not really. Look at a guy like Maxey. Huge jump from year 1 to year 2, averaging 18ppg. Not unreasonable to see Rob being that productive

I’ve watched Dilly all year. This guy is a legit scorer and will be dropping bombs on SA for years while PATFO is trading their 2030/31 picks for 2037/38 picks.

He’s a weak defender but he wouldn’t be the worst on the team by any stretch

[heyheymymy]

yeah I mostly wanted Dilly (or someone at 8) just to challenge the incumbents because I don't think guys like Zollins/Sochan (Salaun) or Wesley/Branham (Dilly) should be resting on their laurels.

Getting that second top 8 would light a fire under their asses in camp

Hope tomorrow we get Furphy to pressure Keldon/Champ as well as upgrade/replace roughly the role/duties of Doug/Osman

[offset formation]

From a team that will likely not be good in 6 years, and when the Spurs will be.

They’re positioning to be able to draft decent talent when Wemby is in his prime.

Dilly can score, but he’ll get eaten alive on defense. Despite the gloomers it’s probably the smart move in the long run.

The inverse of Dilly is:

Castle can't shoot, but he’ll play good on defense.

ot sure why half the board spooged themselves on his selection.

[Mr. Body]

I 100% disagree though on the long shot bets thesis. A manufactured derivative asset with home-run upside value is exactly the type of asset necessary in today's NBA. With how much these finance analytics types guys value things, artifical notional value assets are extremely valuable, especially in an top heavy asset market. You need a top 15 guy to win an NBA championship and usually multiple. The longshot bets to grab them is worth more in an NBA market compared to a normal market considering how top heavy the NBA is. It's the whole reason why swaps are hot and worth way more than what Kram's article is alluding to.

Another way to look at it as that the teams that gave us the swaps manufactured as much value as possible to win the championship with their current cache of top 15 players, and they are willing to generate as much notional value from their assets as possible to keep their current window open. Our moves today are a clear indication that our window is not yet open from the FO's perspective and that we are in the market to add notional value rather than spend it. I understand if people here disagree and think our window is open and we should be cashing in, but I 100% disagree that from a value standpoint the trade was bad.

Another unfortunate consideration is Wemby's health, that by his mid-20s we should be trying to lessen his load. Other than going hard in trades, the draft is the other possibility, and these Dal/Bos/Min teams could eke out a good player or two with these swaps that wouldn't have happened without them.

[scott]

I 100% disagree though on the long shot bets thesis. A manufactured derivative asset with home-run upside value is exactly the type of asset necessary in today's NBA. With how much these finance analytics types guys value things, artifical notional value assets are extremely valuable, especially in an top heavy asset market. You need a top 15 guy to win an NBA championship and usually multiple. The longshot bets to grab them is worth more in an NBA market compared to a normal market considering how top heavy the NBA is. It's the whole reason why swaps are hot and worth way more than what Kram's article is alluding to.

Another way to look at it as that the teams that gave us the swaps manufactured as much value as possible to win the championship with their current cache of top 15 players, and they are willing to generate as much notional value from their assets as possible to keep their current window open. Our moves today are a clear indication that our window is not yet open from the FO's perspective and that we are in the market to add notional value rather than spend it. I understand if people here disagree and think our window is open and we should be cashing in, but I 100% disagree that from a value standpoint the trade was bad.

Fine to disagree. I'd say your approach places too heavy an emphasis upon landing the home run swings and undervalues what you can get from a role player. It's very much a Financial Derivative or even a DFS or Poker Tournament Game Theory kind of mindset where upon the goal is to finish first in a big pool to win the top prize, not to finish a third of the way in the money. That works in those sorts of environments because of the payout structure, but in the NBA you still need talented players to surround those Top 15 talents with. And in this case, the Spurs will already have one Top 15 talent by 2031, and they better already have their second star... otherwise we'll certainly have a disgruntled Wemby.

Long story short, I don't think winner-take-all game theory mentality makes sense or is smart in NBA roster construction, and that's what makes these long shot bets bad asset management.

[poopbox]

It's not their character at all. They build through the draft.

We need to accept that their strategy is to put big bundles of resources out in the wilderness down the way. That's what this is. They're giving a shot of having a lottery pick or two when their own picks are in the late 20s.

That's not a strategy, that's just being a coward.

I'm to scared to make a decision so I am just going to kick the can down the road and hope for the best.

[itzsoweezee]

Does not seem like a tanking move to me at all. They’re stacking assets to put themselves in a position to make a big move at some point. Dilly was unlikely to have much of a positive impact on the Spurs this year.

[lefty20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPMBvGB5TE

Wright gets asked about trading the 8th pick at 5:17 mark.

[Kurgan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPMBvGB5TE

Wright gets asked about trading the 8th pick at 5:17 mark.

Lol, dude punted the question down the line just like he did the pick

[Uriel]

It’s funny. All this time, I was adamantly opposed to the idea of trading 4 and 8 to Atlanta for #1. But now in hindsight, that doesn’t look like such a bad idea.

[djohn2oo8]

Does not seem like a tanking move to me at all. They’re stacking assets to put themselves in a position to make a big move at some point. Dilly was unlikely to have much of a positive impact on the Spurs this year.
Spurs need to develop a core first before going for a big move.

[itzsoweezee]

My brain basically exploded inside my skull from the sure implication of that.

“We’ve got some great young talent” ??? Are you sure about that? I really hope this was just some BSing

[itzsoweezee]

Spurs need to develop a core first before going for a big move.

Yes, but the core doesn’t need to come from the draft. That is actually not the best approach when you’ve got an advanced talent like wemby. The potentially worrisome part is if they think the young guys they currently have are good. I really hope that’s not the case.

[djohn2oo8]

Yes, but the core doesn’t need to come from the draft. That is actually not the best approach when you’ve got an advanced talent like wemby. The potentially worrisome part is if they think the young guys they currently have are good. I really hope that’s not the case.
It does need to come from the draft but I do agree the timeframe may be shortened. If you spend in free agency, you need to get vets, but is there a star out there willing to come? If you go that route by trade, it is going to require not just picks but possibly Castle in a deal if you want a star.

[heyheymymy]

It’s funny. All this time, I was adamantly opposed to the idea of trading 4 and 8 to Atlanta for #1. But now in hindsight, that doesn’t look like such a bad idea.

Nah this is better.

Castle is a better player on better pay scale plus eliminating a second premium payscale salary for a player at 8 that's probably a 12-14 in next years (or basically any even standard draft)

[FireMicoHalili]

Probably not that specific, no. He leaves because he has no faith the FO can or intends to help him
this sentiment is being brought up because...? The Spurs are just starting Year 2 of the Wembanyama era. Has the offseason wrapped up to conclude the front office doesn't intend to help him? Struggling to think why some folks are jumping off cliffs this early.

[objective]

It’s funny. All this time, I was adamantly opposed to the idea of trading 4 and 8 to Atlanta for #1. But now in hindsight, that doesn’t look like such a bad idea.

100%

If they were going to manage things so badly they should have gotten #1, and either Risacher or Shepperd would have been preferable to the mess they're now in

That's why I have returned to the opinion of trading away their Atlanta picks now and getting Young or at least some player of merit: because left to their own devices they're they'll screw the draft picks up anyway

AT least with a trade it they get an all-star, they can trust in the wisdom of others declaring that player an all-star instead of relying on their own sad judgement

[spurraider21]

It’s funny. All this time, I was adamantly opposed to the idea of trading 4 and 8 to Atlanta for #1. But now in hindsight, that doesn’t look like such a bad idea.
pov: you are a sniffer

[99 Problems]

Or Wemby could be a laker by then

More likely Ant tbh…..

[Biggems]

OKC traded to get my guy. I hate that Dillon Jones is going to the Thunder.

[Uriel]

For me, the most consequential part of the deal was the fact that they traded out of #8 at all. It means that the front office had Dillingham, Buzelis, Williams, Carter, Knecht, Topić, etc, for the taking, and they decided that none of them were worth a roster spot.

It means all those reports about one or the other having positive workouts and the Spurs being interested were smokescreens and that the front office didn’t like any of them enough to use a draft pick on them.

[flox]

Fine to disagree. I'd say your approach places too heavy an emphasis upon landing the home run swings and undervalues what you can get from a role player. It's very much a Financial Derivative or even a DFS or Poker Tournament Game Theory kind of mindset where upon the goal is to finish first in a big pool to win the top prize, not to finish a third of the way in the money. That works in those sorts of environments because of the payout structure, but in the NBA you still need talented players to surround those Top 15 talents with. And in this case, the Spurs will already have one Top 15 talent by 2031, and they better already have their second star... otherwise we'll certainly have a disgruntled Wemby.

Long story short, I don't think winner-take-all game theory mentality makes sense or is smart in NBA roster construction, and that's what makes these long shot bets bad asset management.

Fair enough, I see the dividing points here. I'll just leave with this thought - a top 3 finish is worthless. Only a top 1 finish matters in the NBA. I would agree with you if teams and players legacies are valued by top 3 finishes, but that simply is not the case. Sure, you can exploit market inefficiencies by valuing a top 3 finish and then buying assets that are better for top 3 finishes than top 1 finishes (fundamentally flawed stars like DeRozen or extremely good role players that are undersized, flawed in one key critical aspect that's exploitable by other championship teams), but given the assets we have now and their top end outcome trajectory, anything less than building for multiple top 1 finishes would be an extreme waste of assets and effort.

[rascal]

Barring an injury to Wemby, the Spurs will be close to a .500 team next year, with a legitimate shot at making the playoffs.

As currently constructed I don't see anything better than a 25-30 win non playoff team.

[z0sa]

We're running it back + Castle

:pop: We like what we have

How many additional wins is Castle good for, bro? Cause we're gonna need about 25 extra compared to last season to be a play-in team.

THIS is what we were tanking for!

[z0sa]

For me, the most consequential part of the deal was the fact that they traded out of #8 at all. It means that the front office had Dillingham, Buzelis, Williams, Carter, Knecht, Topić, etc, for the taking, and they decided that none of them were worth a roster spot.

It means all those reports about one or the other having positive workouts and the Spurs being interested were smokescreens and that the front office didn’t like any of them enough to use a draft pick on them.

If you want my honest opinion, it's simply the salary cost. The Spurs ownership, not necessarily PATFO, want to run it back and keep as far below the cap while meeting the floor as possible. They didn't think Dilly and Castle + running it back would make the playin or perhaps, their goal was truly playoffs projection before they're willing to spend money. I'm only a layman on the financial side but I've read a lot of posts here from people I would call at least informed on the cap side, and that seems to be the gist of things.

2024-25 is already a wash in the minds of the ownership who are leading this franchise. They know got their yes-men in Pop and co. who will say or do anything and then gaslight us about it being a process. :lol trading the 8th pick for 2 firsts in 7 years isn't planning ahead, it's not even punting. It's just a cost cutting measure.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I just don't see what they're thinking. Unless of course they think all those SRPs mean a thing.

My guess is accumulating assets to trade for a star in a year or two while keeping the 2025 picks.

[Biggems]

Shut the fuck up you dumb hillbilly savage

Hahaha......awesome retort.

[offset formation]

My guess is accumulating assets to trade for a star in a year or two while keeping the 2025 picks.

Well know soon enough.

[baseline bum]

Well know soon enough.

Not that soon since I doubt they're willing to give up their 25 picks.

[Degoat]

Jake Fischer tweeted that the spurs have been trying to get guys at pick 35 to agree to a 2 way contract… lol

[LeBowen]

Oh ffs, it's the Bronny show on ESPN.

[Mugen]

What kind of idiot sits through Screamin A Smith and human jellybag Wojanrowski try to convince the American people that Bronny is an actual NBA level talent just to watch the Spurs sell/trade away an early 2nd round pick?

Me, I'm that idiot.

[scottspurs]

ESPN Coverage couldn’t be any worse. Stephen Smith didn’t even know half the players drafted last night so how is he supposed to breakdown todays picks lol

[LeBowen]

I just instantly muted the stream as soon as I saw him on screen.

[Pauleta14]

ESPN Coverage couldn’t be any worse. Stephen Smith didn’t even know half the players drafted last night so how is he supposed to breakdown todays picks lol


Stephen A has morphed into Don King.... smh He's unbearable

[Ice009]

Why did they split the draft? Is this for this year only, or is this going to be a thing going forward?

[offset formation]

A homerun 2nd round pick...gone to Indiana. Fucking kill me

[TekXX]

That was so confusing

[scottspurs]

Lmao ESPN literally said he was traded to the spurs and couldn’t relay that to the reporter wearing a IFB? Lmao total fail of a broadcast

[scottspurs]

Lmao ESPN literally said he was traded to the spurs and couldn’t relay that to the reporter wearing a IFB? Lmao total fail of a broadcast

[sfernald]

So we got Juan Nunez?

[Pauleta14]

Nuñez was my dream choice. A real steal

Victor is going to be well fed

[R. DeMurre]

2nd round discount version of Nikola Topic... nice SRP. Almost identical measurements to Topic.

[rjv]

so we picked up Nikola Topic after all, only the one from Spain.

[rjv]

by the way, this 2nd round has all the vibes of a semi-pro or early 1980's draft show.

[Pauleta14]

2nd round discount version of Nikola Topic... nice SRP. Almost identical measurements to Topic.

More experienced, better passer, cheaper and less injured

[skin27]

Lol lakers picked bronny james :lol

[Russ]

Nuñez was my dream choice. A real steal

Victor is going to be well fed

Nunez looks like he's well fed.

[spurraider21]

Jake Fischer tweeted that the spurs have been trying to get guys at pick 35 to agree to a 2 way contract… lol
probably tried at #8 too tbh...

[scottspurs]

That was hands down the worst sports broadcast I have ever seen. Very entertaining to laugh out loud so many times with how terrible it was! I thought I was watching a Saturday night live skit

[ChumpDumper]

That was hands down the worst sports broadcast I have ever seen. Very entertaining to laugh out loud so many times with how terrible it was! I thought I was watching a Saturday night live skit

You'd think the four minute timer would make it really easy to schedule just about everything but it was a shitshow and all the info posted on the screen was largely indecipherable noise.

[Mr. Body]

NBA really selling this two day thing for the draft. Stick the second day in the late afternoon, have families sit in what looks like an airport in Montana, use your C-team of crew, have Stephen A. Smith and that fat dude from the Celtics shout gibberish. Great. This went great. Can't wait for next year.

[ChumpDumper]

I think day 2 is a great idea. It can be done better.

[Pauleta14]

Nunez looks like he's well fed.

:lol

We'll see if he gets better at shooting, but a kid already starting for the Spanish NT speaks loud to me.

+ the lack of pick and roll abilities in the roster killed me last season

[Mr. Body]

I think day 2 is a great idea. It can be done better.

Adam Silver: We really want to make the draft into a two-day thing for people to tune into

ESPN: Fuck that shit

[palangi]

The draft layout was horrible. The ESPN broadcast was the absolute worse to listen too. Lacking in professionalism.

the spurs draft was an even bigger shit show going in with two top ten picks and coming away with a talented kid who struggles to shoot. A slow PG we probably never see. And a 6’5” SF/PF.

way to help Wemby out. What joke.

[SpursGenius]

The draft layout was horrible. The ESPN broadcast was the absolute worse to listen too. Lacking in professionalism.

the spurs draft was an even bigger shit show going in with two top ten picks and coming away with a talented kid who struggles to shoot. A slow PG we probably never see. And a 6’5” SF/PF.

way to help Wemby out. What joke.

only patfo can screw up a good oppurtunity. Devin Carter will make us cry. The guy will be an all star

[palangi]

only patfo can screw up a good oppurtunity. Devin Carter will make us cry. The guy will be an all star
Pop needs to retire. And wright needs to go away. We are going to waste a talent like Wemby because of these clowns

[TVI]

Spurstalk Before The Draft: "What a weak draft"
Spurstalk After The Draft: "Fuck PATFO for giving up on some many obvious future all stars!"

[CGD]

Spurstalk Before The Draft: "What a weak draft"
Spurstalk After The Draft: "Fuck PATFO for giving up on some many obvious future all stars!"

Yup, but I think it pretty much boils down to the Dillystans who are still butthurt, though.

Very few Topic, William, or Carter enthusiasts still bitching about passing on those guys at 8.

[TVI]

That's not a strategy, that's just being a coward.

I'm to scared to make a decision so I am just going to kick the can down the road and hope for the best.

You're thinking on this is one-dimensional.

The Spurs build through the draft because they have to build though the draft. It's their only option.

Players aren't lining up to come to San Antonio like they are Boston, L.A., Chicago, or N.Y.

Stocking up better draft picks for the future gives them flexibility.

[TVI]

so we picked up Nikola Topic after all, only the one from Spain.

And less injured...

[The Truth #6]

Yup, but I think it pretty much boils down to the Dillystans who are still butthurt, though.

Very few Topic, William, or Carter enthusiasts still bitching about passing on those guys at 8.

I would have gone for Knecht or Carter as useful role players. That is still building slowly. I understand all the future picks coming in but those are good problems to have.

[ambchang]

My gripe about this is that the spurs are stockpiling on other teams draft picks because it gives them the ability to get good young players in the future even if they become a good team. With that logic in place, the spurs should start building up their team with their own high draft picks now such that they can develop into a good team, and still has the ability to extend their contending window with good cheap young talent. Right now, I don’t see the spurs as developing a good team, they need shooting at PG and SF (maybe even PF), a backup centre and maybe a backup SG. None of these were addressed. For the record I like castle and felt he was the best pick available, but Williams could’ve been the answer at SG and Furphy could be an intriguing piece. Instead we got a swap on a swap that is 6 years down the road and a pick 7 years down the road, and then cash for the owners and a guy who will likely never play for the spurs.


They are running the team like sarver, and this cheaping out with cost the team. I’m unhappy about the currrnt situation but am holding out hope a trade or signing will come up.

I want hartenstein, Lopez, quickley. Make it happen PATFO.

[Ariel]

Outside of these events I don't have to watch ESPN and Steven A Smith since I live outside the USA, however I have to say the guy is stupid, loud, obnoxious... unbearable. Watching the dude speak for a couple of minutes makes my head hurt. Can't believe he's the star of a huge sports network.

[Ariel]

so we picked up Nikola Topic after all, only the one from Spain.
Yeah, the Topic that plays in slow motion and is a career 56.7% FT shooter, as opposed to 90%. With those handicaps he has a much tougher path to success in the NBA than many other players available at 35, including Furphy.

[Mr. Body]

Outside of these events I don't have to watch ESPN and Steven A Smith since I live outside the USA, however I have to say the guy is stupid, loud, obnoxious... unbearable. Watching the dude speak for a couple of minutes makes my head hurt. Can't believe he's the star of a huge sports network.

Disney has run ESPN so far into the ground that they're considering spinning it off to get rid of it. Story of everything Disney lately, streaming, Marvel, Star Wars. Eventually they start putting out such shitty, lazy product that it doesn't work anymore. Turns out idiots shouting at each other isn't a great model, not to mention their terrible broadcast teams.

[scott]

Outside of these events I don't have to watch ESPN and Steven A Smith since I live outside the USA, however I have to say the guy is stupid, loud, obnoxious... unbearable. Watching the dude speak for a couple of minutes makes my head hurt. Can't believe he's the star of a huge sports network.

Steven A Smith is atrocious. But he really is a perfect representation of American culture and media these days: stupid, loud, obnoxious? Yeah, that's America!

[LeBowen]

Steven A Smith is atrocious. But he really is a perfect representation of American culture and media these days: stupid, loud, obnoxious? Yeah, that's America!




As Chuck said, there's a reason y'all are on TV early in the morning when everyone's asleep. :lmao

[scott]

As Chuck said, there's a reason y'all are on TV early in the morning when everyone's asleep. :lmao

Chuck's a national treasure.

[TD 21]

Chuck's a national treasure.

That Uncle Tom is exactly what you just described Screamin' A as.

[Uriel]

To be fair, I don’t think Stephen A Smith is really stupid, loud, and obnoxious in real life. I think he just plays that character on TV because he knows that’s what gets the ratings. But in interviews in other places outside ESPN, he actually comes across as rational and articulate, much to my surprise from having only seen him previously on ESPN.

[scott]

Relistening to the Game Theory podcast live stream from Rd 1 and their immediate thought when Dillingham got to traded to MIN was that we were getting Naz. Ouch.

[lebomb]

Outside of these events I don't have to watch ESPN and Steven A Smith since I live outside the USA, however I have to say the guy is stupid, loud, obnoxious... unbearable. Watching the dude speak for a couple of minutes makes my head hurt. Can't believe he's the star of a huge sports network.


Exactly why he is ESPNs number one guy. I dont care for him either "screaminAsmith"

[lebomb]

To be fair, I don’t think Stephen A Smith is really stupid, loud, and obnoxious in real life. I think he just plays that character on TV because he knows that’s what gets the ratings. But in interviews in other places outside ESPN, he actually comes across as rational and articulate, much to my surprise from having only seen him previously on ESPN.

BINGO!!!

[poopbox]

Spurstalk Before The Draft: "What a weak draft"
Spurstalk After The Draft: "Fuck PATFO for giving up on some many obvious future all stars!"

It's more like:

Spurstalk Before The Draft: What a weak draft
Spurstalk After The Draft : Wait you traded a top 10 pick so that you can draft somebody who is currently in 6th to 8th grade? You mean you had a month to figure out what to do with this pick and this is the best you could come up with? Yikes.

[scott]

Fascinating tidbit coming out now...

Apparently Filipowski slipped to the second round because of some weird situation where he has an older girlfriend (he's 20, she's 28) who has caused him to be estranged from his family. Apparently he hasn't had any contact with his family for two years.

Speculation that maybe this situation caused some teams to pass.

[scott]

Here's a story on it: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2024/6/28/24188094/kyle-filipowski-girlfriend-nba-draft-utah-jazz

[Ariel]

Players not good enough to take a flyer on with a 2nd round pick:
https://x.com/NBADraftWass/status/1811037814735229340
https://x.com/esidery/status/1810384274891415552
Hope it doesn't come to bite us in the ass.

[Obstructed_View]

It's more like:

Spurstalk Before The Draft: What a weak draft
Spurstalk After The Draft : Wait you traded a top 10 pick so that you can draft somebody who is currently in 6th to 8th grade? You mean you had a month to figure out what to do with this pick and this is the best you could come up with? Yikes.
Not much of a flex on ST when the FO picked two guys from the second round of that weak draft. By that logic they should have sold or traded away everything after Castle.