You Son of a Bitch, I'm --- Wait, What??

[Mr. Body]

There's a lot of chat about what happened in the Dillingham threads, but I thought to egotistically walk down memory lane with this one. Feel free to disregard.

I'm still processing. That was quite a roller coaster going from the camera not leaving Dillingham until the pick was called (seriously, ESPN needs to stop telegraphing the picks) to seeing a joyous face to trying to hear in my noisy living room that the selection had been traded.

The things that kinda suck about this are:

- Trading a dynamic, super-fun guard to watch, someone who is electrifying
- Trading him to a potential rival who badly need a player like him
- Potentially, what we received

A lot of guesswork about what happened, whether they really were geared into Salaun and 'panicked' when he was gone. I doubt it. They had a lot of tiers, I'm sure, and a next player ready. They just found a deal they liked more than getting another current player.

Asset strategy. I think we've seen enough to know what the Spurs are prioritizing, which is laying out future picks when the team will presumably be very good. Like with the Toronto, Atlanta, and Chicago picks, they've earmarked teams they think will be on the downswing in Boston, Dallas, and now Minnesota. One of the biggest reasons championship teams fail to keep their windows open is a failure to add new talent.

The Spurs know very well how hard it is to add young talent when you're picking late in the round. Adding vets is one thing. Ring-chasers will come. It's the young guys that are very, very hard to get.

Presumably, with the swaps and picks, they're trying to solve for this problem. This takes a lot of foresight. It sucks for the present, but the bet is that we will badly need these boosts those years to come. And, no, I don't think these are being acquired specifically to make trades, although they won't hurt.

I regret not having Dillingham on the team, but there were big question marks. Not even in defense, which was a big concern, but in play style. Could he scale down? Could he mesh? I think so, but the team would be forced to 'build' a bit around him and it appears they didn't want to.

As for missing on other players, I don't have any real regrets here. Going from 'it's a bad draft' to fretting about passing on players doesn't make sense. That was a particularly bad patch in the draft, in my mind, where value in terms of talent vs. draft spot wasn't there. I won't regret passing Cody Williams. Keeping the powder dry is probably the better choice. Passing on Dillingham, however. Well, we'll see.

My huge question is... what's the plan, here? Meaning the short term. The team badly needs offensive production. We didn't solve the SF hole. We don't have real scorers.

I don't think the Dillingham trade means anything about that. I just want to see what the next steps are. Immediately, though, I feel regret and uncertainty. I don't mean to be a sniffer or whatever the terms here are, but I get laying out resources far in the future. It's real Ants and the Grasshopper shit, real Aesop shit. They're placing bundles far in the future the pick up when we need them. That part I'm fine with. The concept of it is smart.

But what else is happening here?

[fafo]

Hard to believe this was a panic move after missing out on Salaun. Like... am I really supposed to believe that these guys at peak working hours who barely sleep at this time of year just didn't have a backup plan? There were rumors before of the Spurs shopping the pick so it's easy to believe that this is a scenario they envisioned. To trade out of the pick is the ultimate boner killer move on draft night, but it makes sense to continue stacking assets for future trades.

Besides that, they seem to have really wanted this cap space that the 8th pick would've taken up. Perhaps they want the flexibility of making a trade that doesn't have to be matched dollar for dollar since they have more cap room to take in salary. I'm not upset at the move right now, but if they just sleepwalk through the rest of the offseason and all they have to show for it is Castle, then something really strange is going on.

[spurraider21]

What’s happening is Wright is scared to commit to anything due to fear of failure. As soon as there’s a difficult decision to make he punts.

last offseason was all about “no expensive mistakes” because he doesn’t trust his own judgment to not make a mistake. It’s just a continuation of that. There’s no expectation when you are acquiring picks. Trading way player for picks always reviews well. But at some point you have to actually make a move with those picks and Wright seems like a paralysis by analysis type

[Extra Stout]

There’s this assumption that the Spurs are going to be a contender in 2030 when these stockpiled picks are supposedly going to come in handy. But when are they actually going to build the contender? Don’t they realize they are already on the clock with Wemby’s patience?

[Chinook]

What’s happening is Wright is scared to commit to anything due to fear of failure. As soon as there’s a difficult decision to make he punts.

last offseason was all about “no expensive mistakes” because he doesn’t trust his own judgment to not make a mistake. It’s just a continuation of that. There’s no expectation when you are acquiring picks. Trading way player for picks always reviews well. But at some point you have to actually make a move with those picks and Wright seems like a paralysis by analysis type

I do agree with the posters who are saying this is almost certainly not Wright's doing. Wright very likely negotiated the trade with Minny for Dillingham, but it was probably not his call to punt on the pick in the first place. I think the decision to consider these years "runway" for all of the guys currently on the club is an organization stance rather than his personal desire. He's not free from blame at all. But I think the rot is coming from a deeper place, and Wright is just a person they hired to implement their desires.

[SpursGenius]

The pick should have been Devin Carter. They were too dumb to see it. DC is a two way dog with elite athletic ability. He also improved his shooting this year. Think Jalen Brunson but bigger more athletic and can play defense

[SpursGenius]

I do agree with the posters who are saying this is almost certainly not Wright's doing. Wright very likely negotiated the trade with Minny for Dillingham, but it was probably not his call to punt on the pick in the first place. I think the decision to consider these years "runway" for all of the guys currently on the club is an organization stance rather than his personal desire. He's not free from blame at all. But I think the rot is coming from a deeper place, and Wright is just a person they hired to implement their desires.
so who is the Rot ? RC ? Mr Senile himself ? He is dead in a few years I doubt senile hag keeps punting .

[blackbucket]

I do agree with the posters who are saying this is almost certainly not Wright's doing. Wright very likely negotiated the trade with Minny for Dillingham, but it was probably not his call to punt on the pick in the first place. I think the decision to consider these years "runway" for all of the guys currently on the club is an organization stance rather than his personal desire. He's not free from blame at all. But I think the rot is coming from a deeper place, and Wright is just a person they hired to implement their desires.

What are you basing that on? What information do you have? Doesn’t the GM have the last call on draft picks etc? Do we know if that isn’t the case and it’s Pop, RC or Holt Jr?

I think all of this falls at Wright’s feet. Time to move on.

[Chinook]

What are you basing that on? What information do you have? Doesn’t the GM have the last call on draft picks etc? Do we know if that isn’t the case and it’s Pop, RC or Holt Jr?

I think all of this falls at Wright’s feet. Time to move on.

No, the GM is just a title. Buford is the VP of Basketball Operations and Pop the President (last I checked, they have have gotten promotions since then). Wright is their employee and does what they tell him to. That's why they were also in the draft room.

There's zero reason to lay all of this at Wright's feet. If they are sitting watching everything happen but thinking "Nah, we've gotta let him cook", they're just as to blame as he is. However, because they're the actual decision-makers on the team, it's no surprise the general incompetence started before Wright ever had his position.

People should ask why they keep singling him out. He made moves to bring in four PGs last off-season, and Pop still played a fucking PF there instead. The out-of-touchness that lead that fiasco is very evident in a move like this.

[Mr. Body]

I'll record here, as mentioned in other threads, that Minnesota does not own their picks at this point going forward, except for 2028. Utah has all of them outright or as swaps as part of the Gobert trade. It's going to get harder for them to stay competitive as they go on. Having Edwards and a presumably good Dillingham are great, but they won't be able to easily get young talent.

[Silver&Black Warrior]

so who is the Rot ? RC ? Mr Senile himself ? He is dead in a few years I doubt senile hag keeps punting .

^AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:rollin

[offset formation]

No, the GM is just a title. Buford is the VP of Basketball Operations and Pop the President (last I checked, they have have gotten promotions since then). Wright is their employee and does what they tell him to. That's why they were also in the draft room.

There's zero reason to lay all of this at Wright's feet. If they are sitting watching everything happen but thinking "Nah, we've gotta let him cook", they're just as to blame as he is. However, because they're the actual decision-makers on the team, it's no surprise the general incompetence started before Wright ever had his position.

People should ask why they keep singling him out. He made moves to bring in four PGs last off-season, and Pop still played a fucking PF there instead. The out-of-touchness that lead that fiasco is very evident in a move like this.

This is so out of line with the kind of stuff RC did man. It doesn't make sense for it to be him but who knows, maybe you're right. Either way, I hate it with the heat of 100,000 sun's

[scott]

I do agree with the posters who are saying this is almost certainly not Wright's doing. Wright very likely negotiated the trade with Minny for Dillingham, but it was probably not his call to punt on the pick in the first place. I think the decision to consider these years "runway" for all of the guys currently on the club is an organization stance rather than his personal desire. He's not free from blame at all. But I think the rot is coming from a deeper place, and Wright is just a person they hired to implement their desires.

I agree with this and we should probably start substituting "PAFTO" in place of "Wright", but let's be honest... if things turn sour is Wright who is getting fired, not RC or Pop. This is actually a major problem I have with the structure of the Spurs FO. There is definitely no accountability on the CEO or POBO, but the GM is not empowered to make autonomous decisions, and he certainly isn't empowered to fire the Head Coach.

In many respects, it reminds me (though it is very different) than the situation the Dallas Cowboys have with their GM (or whatever the hell they call him, since Jerry Jones is the GM). A tough job where you're success is dependent upon the decisions of someone higher, but you'll get all the blame when it doesn't work.

[offset formation]

No, the GM is just a title. Buford is the VP of Basketball Operations and Pop the President (last I checked, they have have gotten promotions since then). Wright is their employee and does what they tell him to. That's why they were also in the draft room.

There's zero reason to lay all of this at Wright's feet. If they are sitting watching everything happen but thinking "Nah, we've gotta let him cook", they're just as to blame as he is. However, because they're the actual decision-makers on the team, it's no surprise the general incompetence started before Wright ever had his position.

People should ask why they keep singling him out. He made moves to bring in four PGs last off-season, and Pop still played a fucking PF there instead. The out-of-touchness that lead that fiasco is very evident in a move like this.

When do you think the incompetence started, FTR?

I think one could say it was in place at Samanic probably and definitely for Primo and picks since. Honestly, I hated the Branham and Wesley picks in real time too. But I was told I was wrong. And of course that Primo pick over Sengun is a fireable offense imo.

[scott]

I'll record here, as mentioned in other threads, that Minnesota does not own their picks at this point going forward, except for 2028. Utah has all of them outright or as swaps as part of the Gobert trade. It's going to get harder for them to stay competitive as they go on. Having Edwards and a presumably good Dillingham are great, but they won't be able to easily get young talent.

MIN also has their 2026 pick, though it's the worst of theirs and UTA. As of right now, it would seem a safe bet that swap does not convey... but you never know.

[heyheymymy]

I'll record here, as mentioned in other threads, that Minnesota does not own their picks at this point going forward, except for 2028. Utah has all of them outright or as swaps as part of the Gobert trade. It's going to get harder for them to stay competitive as they go on. Having Edwards and a presumably good Dillingham are great, but they won't be able to easily get young talent.

Good catch. SA is owed these MIN pick/swaps right after UTA starves them out for talent

Gobert is though 26, KAT is through 28 and ANT is through 29 so MIN will either reload or have to pivot fast with no FRPs except 28

Maybe it all works out for MIN, I'm just trying to find silver linings here to cope but you can argue that it's an interesting bet that MIN will be on the downtrend by then.

[heyheymymy]

When do you think the incompetence started, FTR?.

not offering max to Pops Mensa-Bonsu

[offset formation]

Y'all are forgetting free agency. There will be vets wanting to go play with "Baby Jordan"...they will still be in the playoff hunt annually.

And what's more, it doesn't even matter if they're not. We have a "once in a generation" type player now. Today. You simply don't kick draft capital that far down the road. You never know what Wemby's health will be in 7 years given he's a freak of nature and potentially quite injury prone. Just all around a dense move.

[offset formation]

not offering max to Pops Mensa-Bonsu

Make your jokes Mr Jokey McJokeface

[Obstructed_View]

The pick should have been Devin Carter. They were too dumb to see it. DC is a two way dog with elite athletic ability. He also improved his shooting this year. Think Jalen Brunson but bigger more athletic and can play defense
He's older than Blake, Branham, Barlow, Cissoko and Victor.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Good catch. SA is owed these MIN pick/swaps right after UTA starves them out for talent

Gobert is though 26, KAT is through 28 and ANT is through 29 so MIN will either reload or have to pivot fast with no FRPs except 28

Maybe it all works out for MIN, I'm just trying to find silver linings here to cope but you can argue that it's an interesting bet that MIN will be on the downtrend by then.

Minnesota is in tax hell already. Their bill for next season is north of $60 mil already before any moves they make. There's a significant possibility that they're unable to keep the team together even in the short run because they'll have some very tough decisions to make and will have to nail them. Absolutely love having a far out unprotected pick and a swap from them, it'll be great value.

[heyheymymy]

Minnesota is in tax hell already. Their bill for next season is north of $60 mil already before any moves they make. There's a significant possibility that they're unable to keep the team together even in the short run because they'll have some very tough decisions to make and will have to nail them. Absolutely love having a far out unprotected pick and a swap from them, it'll be great value.

I'm with you on that. MIN is a house of cards. The money is unsustainable and the bad fit on court that it buys is unsustainable. The 2 bigs are a mismatch, KAT is a fraud, and Ant is too unleashed. Can they pivot fast enough, without the aid of FRPs they sent to UTA? I agree, this is a good roll of the dice here for a rainy day fund you'll be glad you have down the line.

[Splits]

I'm with you on that. MIN is a house of cards. The money is unsustainable and the bad fit on court that it buys is unsustainable. The 2 bigs are a mismatch, KAT is a fraud, and Ant is too unleashed. Can they pivot fast enough, without the aid of FRPs they sent to UTA? I agree, this is a good roll of the dice here for a rainy day fund you'll be glad you have down the line.

which is totally predictive of what's going to be the situation in fucking 2030

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

which is totally predictive of what's going to be the situation in fucking 2030

It doesn't matter what the situation will be in 2030, it matters what it looks like it'll be. Spurs are almost certainly not going to be the ones making the pick for themselves, it'll be traded at some point. Now, if in a couple of years Minnesota's team is dismantled due to excessive tax, that pick will look super juicy for a trade similar to what NY and Brooklyn did.

[heyheymymy]

"Gobert is though 26, KAT is through 28 and ANT is through 29 so MIN will either reload or have to pivot fast with no FRPs except 28 [and the 26 is a swap as mentioned itt]"

[Splits]

It doesn't matter what the situation will be in 2030, it matters what it looks like it'll be. Spurs are almost certainly not going to be the ones making the pick for themselves, it'll be traded at some point. Now, if in a couple of years Minnesota's team is dismantled due to excessive tax, that pick will look super juicy for a trade similar to what NY and Brooklyn did.

lmao FRPs and swaps 7 years in the future are nonsense sweeteners. Value comes from the right here right now. Trading #8 now for some bullshit in the 2030s is like freezing a porkchop and expecting the holocaust will cause the elimination of pigs will drive up its value when you defrost it in a decade. It's ludicrous.

[heyheymymy]

I gotta concede the murkiness of what a 2030 landscape might be in the NBA or with MIN but the point is that it's a bet on rain with very cloudy skies in twin cities and that's as good as it gets. From there the chips fall where they may and no guarantees.

Maybe the clouds pass. That's always a risk. But I'll bet on gray skies over blue ones and I like what the Spurs have targeted in futures with BOS, DAL and MIN even as mighty as they stand currently. But shit, SA was a year too early on the ATL #1 lol so maybe they aren't the downtrend weathermen we hope they may be.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

lmao FRPs and swaps 7 years in the future are nonsense sweeteners. Value comes from the right here right now. Trading #8 now for some bullshit in the 2030s is like freezing a porkchop and expecting the holocaust will cause the elimination of pigs will drive up its value when you defrost it in a decade. It's ludicrous.

I mean we just saw two big trades, where far out FRPs and swaps were the best commodity - BKN's value isn't in NY's '25 and '27 firsts, because they'll have all the good players under contract, but in '29 and '31. Houston returned BKN's '25 and '26 for far out Suns picks in order to position themselves for when PHX 's team crumbles.

How you can call these 'nonsense sweeteners' when we just saw those two trades in the last 24 hours I don't know but each to their own I guess.

[scott]

I gotta concede the murkiness of what a 2030 landscape might be in the NBA or with MIN but the point is that it's a bet on rain with very cloudy skies in twin cities and that's as good as it gets. From there the chips fall where they may and no guarantees.

Maybe the clouds pass. That's always a risk. But I'll bet on gray skies over blue ones and I like what the Spurs have targeted in futures with BOS, DAL and MIN even as mighty as they stand currently. But shit, SA was a year too early on the ATL #1 lol so maybe they aren't the downtrend weathermen we hope they may be.

To use your analogy... it's a torrential downpour here in San Antonio and you just passed your umbrella to Minnesota in case in rains in 7 years.

[djohn2oo8]

I mean we just saw two big trades, where far out FRPs and swaps were the best commodity - BKN's value isn't in NY's '25 and '27 firsts, because they'll have all the good players under contract, but in '29 and '31. Houston returned BKN's '25 and '26 for far out Suns picks in order to position themselves for when PHX 's team crumbles.

How you can call these 'nonsense sweeteners' when we just saw those two trades in the last 24 hours I don't know but each to their own I guess.
Houston has decided on their core, and doesn’t need to keep drafting in the top 5 while still having to pay their players soon. So it makes sense to push draft picks out a bit. The Spurs have multiple holes to fill, and aren’t one draftee away from contention.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah a # 19 in 2024 didn't stop TOR from letting Siakam go or the 2026 1-4 which could be god knows what

And why would BKN accept 29s and 31s for Bridges don't the Nets know the sun could explode by then and we'd all be dead

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Houston has decided on their core, and doesn’t need to keep drafting in the top 5 while still having to pay their players soon. So it makes sense to push draft picks out a bit. The Spurs have multiple holes to fill, and aren’t one draftee away from contention.

I disagree that Houston has decided on their core - NY has, not Houston. That's why they wanted the Suns picks - because they see they need someone else, like a Durant, or a Booker in order to be more competitive.

The Spurs have a lot holes, you're right, which is why they look to get future draft capital like all rebuilding teams do. If you think Dillingham on a rookie deal would have more value in a trade than an unprotected MIN pick and a swap, their fair enough, but I don't.

[scott]

I mean we just saw two big trades, where far out FRPs and swaps were the best commodity - BKN's value isn't in NY's '25 and '27 firsts, because they'll have all the good players under contract, but in '29 and '31. Houston returned BKN's '25 and '26 for far out Suns picks in order to position themselves for when PHX 's team crumbles.

How you can call these 'nonsense sweeteners' when we just saw those two trades in the last 24 hours I don't know but each to their own I guess.

I'm glad you brought up the BKN-HOU trade, because it's a good example.

The Rockets traded a 2025 FRP and a 2026 Swap for: a 2025 Swap, a 2027 FRP, a 2029 FRP and a 2029 swap.

So, they turned one pick and one swap into two picks and two swaps.

The Spurs, on the other hand, traded one FRP for one pick and one swap.

And, there is far less of a timing differential.

In other words, the Rockets got SIGNIFICANTLY more value than the Spurs did. Part of the reason they got more value is because BKN desperately need control over their next two drafts back... but, it illustrates how little value the Spurs got in this deal.

[heyheymymy]

To use your analogy... it's a torrential downpour here in San Antonio and you just passed your umbrella to Minnesota in case in rains in 7 years.

damn touche that made me think

okay but the umbrella we handed to MIN was so small and lightweight it will blow away in any real downpour anyway and what we got back in return may help build a permanent roof over our heads from the rain far better than the tiny umbrella half measure ever would've

[scott]

damn touche that made me think

okay but the umbrella we handed to MIN was so small and lightweight it will blow away in any real downpour anyway and what we got back in return may help build a permanent roof over our heads from the rain far better than the tiny umbrella half measure ever would've

Man, if we don't have a roof over our heads already by 2031... wtf are we doing?

[djohn2oo8]

I disagree that Houston has decided on their core - NY has, not Houston. That's why they wanted the Suns picks - because they see they need someone else, like a Durant, or a Booker in order to be more competitive.

The Spurs have a lot holes, you're right, which is why they look to get future draft capital like all rebuilding teams do. If you think Dillingham on a rookie deal would have more value in a trade than an unprotected MIN pick and a swap, their fair enough, but I don't.
Sengun, Thompson, Eason, Jabari, and For the moment, Green. Include Cam Whitmore in there too, and now Reed. They have decided on their core because they did not trade for Durant.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm glad you brought up the BKN-HOU trade, because it's a good example.

The Rockets traded a 2025 FRP and a 2026 Swap for: a 2025 Swap, a 2027 FRP, a 2029 FRP and a 2029 swap.

So, they turned one pick and one swap into two picks and two swaps.

The Spurs, on the other hand, traded one FRP for one pick and one swap.

And, there is far less of a timing differential.

In other words, the Rockets got SIGNIFICANTLY more value than the Spurs did. Part of the reason they got more value is because BKN desperately need control over their next two drafts back... but, it illustrates how little value the Spurs got in this deal.

Context is completely different though. Houston held BKN's future hostage the same way we do Atlanta's. BKN, being on the precipice as a team, would naturally value their own picks a lot higher because it allows them to pick a direction and rebuild.

Spurs got an unprotected pick and a swap from a franchise that has been to the playoffs like 3 times in the last 30 years. MIN couldn't even offer more than that, even if they wanted, because they've already traded every pick they can. Not sure how you'd expect more value from it. I think it's pretty damn good.

[djohn2oo8]

I'm glad you brought up the BKN-HOU trade, because it's a good example.

The Rockets traded a 2025 FRP and a 2026 Swap for: a 2025 Swap, a 2027 FRP, a 2029 FRP and a 2029 swap.

So, they turned one pick and one swap into two picks and two swaps.

The Spurs, on the other hand, traded one FRP for one pick and one swap.

And, there is far less of a timing differential.

In other words, the Rockets got SIGNIFICANTLY more value than the Spurs did. Part of the reason they got more value is because BKN desperately need control over their next two drafts back... but, it illustrates how little value the Spurs got in this deal.
Yep

[heyheymymy]

Man, if we don't have a roof over our heads already by 2031... wtf are we doing?

a castle without a roof?

man god forbid. prob moving to Vegas lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Sengun, Thompson, Eason, Jabari, and For the moment, Green. Include Cam Whitmore in there too, and now Reed. They have decided on their core because they did not trade for Durant.

Come on lol be serious, this isn't the core they're going to contend with. They'll look to trade for a star in the next couple of years using some of these players, plus the picks they've acquired. Only then can you claim they've picked their core. NY just did it.

[scott]

Context is completely different though. Houston held BKN's future hostage the same way we do Atlanta's. BKN, being on the precipice as a team, would naturally value their own picks a lot higher because it allows them to pick a direction and rebuild.

Spurs got an unprotected pick and a swap from a franchise that has been to the playoffs like 3 times in the last 30 years. MIN couldn't even offer more than that, even if they wanted, because they've already traded every pick they can. Not sure how you'd expect more value from it. I think it's pretty damn good.

The fact MIN couldn't offer more is irrelevant to whether it was good value. You don't show up to the Ferrari dealership with $4000 bucks and they sell you a car because that's all you have.

Spurs got an unprotected pick... from a pick that was already number 8! And 7 years later! LOL, it's a fucking JOKE on value.

[scott]

Come on lol be serious, this isn't the core they're going to contend with. They'll look to trade for a star in the next couple of years using some of these players, plus the picks they've acquired. Only then can you claim they've picked their core. NY just did it.

Rockets are light years ahead of where we are, with the assets to make a big move, and the balls to do so. It pains me to say that.

Also, the Rockets, didn't sell number 3 for a 2031 pick. They traded a 2025 pick for a 2027 pick and a 2029 pick. They DOUBLED the number of picks. We did a 1:1 with a 7 year gap. LOL to anyone trying to justify this.

[djohn2oo8]

Come on lol be serious, this isn't the core they're going to contend with. They'll look to trade for a star in the next couple of years using some of these players, plus the picks they've acquired. Only then can you claim they've picked their core. NY just did it.
Having a core of players means you aren’t trading those players. Sengun is likely an all star next year. Thompson, another possible, and is in no way getting traded. Whitmore and Eason may both be up for MIP. They will only make a trade if someone like Booker becomes available. Or sign someone.

[heyheymymy]

I figure the Spurs probably look at the 7 year delay as a feature not a bug

[offset formation]

I figure the Spurs probably look at the 7 year delay as a feature not a bug

Of course they did. And it helps this team, the one going on now 5 seasons under .500 in a row, win how?

That's the point. I'd almost rather it be just stupidity than planned.

[heyheymymy]

It potentially helps them win later not now

that's what sucks about it

[SpursGenius]

I'm glad you brought up the BKN-HOU trade, because it's a good example.

The Rockets traded a 2025 FRP and a 2026 Swap for: a 2025 Swap, a 2027 FRP, a 2029 FRP and a 2029 swap.

So, they turned one pick and one swap into two picks and two swaps.

The Spurs, on the other hand, traded one FRP for one pick and one swap.

And, there is far less of a timing differential.

In other words, the Rockets got SIGNIFICANTLY more value than the Spurs did. Part of the reason they got more value is because BKN desperately need control over their next two drafts back... but, it illustrates how little value the Spurs got in this deal.
Spurs might have actually lost value. Dilly hits, KAT will still be only 33 in 2030, Edwards 27. There is no way they will fall in the top 10. PATFO are shitheads.

[T Park]

You mouth breathers keep treating these picks like “they want players in those years”

Rather than assets to use in other moves.

You don’t kick a lottery pick down the road like that if you’re not planning on spending the cap space you didn’t just save on new players.

They now have 26 million in cap space and they have their eyes on guys.


We’ll see if it works out, but for everyone e that thinks this is a cheap sell, that’s the best offer they got. That’s how crsp all the teams thought of this draft.

[SouthernFryd]

I get the freeing of cap space for other moves. But, trading a number 8 for picks 7 years away the best they could get? I don't get that.

[objective]

Spurs are convinced they're smarter than everyone else, and a lot of posters here agree with them. They probably still think Primo was 100% the right pick and it was only bad luck with off court stuff that ruined things for the remarkably slow Primo

By trading away from 8, regardless of if it was Dillingham or Williams or even Edey, Spurs declared no player could help this roster now or in the future, and taking a 2031 pick that could very well be last in the first round or just potential trade fodder would still be better. Every other team that took a pick from 8 onwards thinks they have a player that could help them, either now or later. Especially Minnesota who is trying to win a title. And those teams are all stupider than the Spurs, who know better than everyone else.

[ChumpDumper]

Calm down. It really looks like ownership's maximizing profits while they can.

[SouthernFryd]

The fact that the Spurs didn't see the value of taking Dalton Knecht at #8 and taking Dilly to trade him for...nothing...tells you everything you need to know.

The FO has other agendas besides winning basketball games next year. They sure didn't help the Spurs on the basketball court.

And a lot of these new breed Spurs fans seem just fine with that.

[RC_Drunkford]

When do you think the incompetence started, FTR?

I think one could say it was in place at Samanic probably and definitely for Primo and picks since. Honestly, I hated the Branham and Wesley picks in real time too. But I was told I was wrong. And of course that Primo pick over Sengun is a fireable offense imo.

2017 offseason with 50 Mills and supermax Pau Gasol

[CorrectCrusader]

For an example, it would be like if we traded our pick in the 2014 draft to the warriors in exchange for 20 and 21, in this scenario we would've gotten the #2 overall pick in 2020.

Things happen, and the drafts in 2030 will be better than the 2024 draft no question

[LeBowen]

2017 offseason with 50 Mills and supermax Pau Gasol

Nephew definitely broke them.
Outside of dumb luck in last year's lottery, everything except for getting future assets has been poor.

I'm not going to shit on them just yet, but if we don't have a couple of good shooters in the wings on the opening night, it's going to be another painful season.

Saying that you don't like a single prospect that's left on the board at #8 pick and that you don't want to draft down either is a bold move.
If there's no trade for some actual help ready, it's a disaster.
Even if there's a trade and any of these wings that were available becomes a high level starter, it's a disaster.

[Extra Stout]

For an example, it would be like if we traded our pick in the 2014 draft to the warriors in exchange for 20 and 21, in this scenario we would've gotten the #2 overall pick in 2020.

Things happen, and the drafts in 2030 will be better than the 2024 draft no question
I’m impressed by your ability to scout 11-year-olds.

The issues with the Spurs’ front office are hubris and lack of accountability. They’re convinced they’re smarter than everybody else because of things that fell in their lap and moves they made 10-25 years ago, and ownership has complete trust in them regardless of results.

[The Truth #6]

Calm down. It really looks like ownership's maximizing profits while they can.

It's a solid point. I suppose the follow up would be if the 8 pick would help improve the product and sell more seats etc cetera.

[vy65]

I'll record here, as mentioned in other threads, that Minnesota does not own their picks at this point going forward, except for 2028. Utah has all of them outright or as swaps as part of the Gobert trade. It's going to get harder for them to stay competitive as they go on. Having Edwards and a presumably good Dillingham are great, but they won't be able to easily get young talent.

They can trade for those picks back, just like Brooklyn did.

[LeBowen]

I guess if we look from a homer standpoint, this is a win now move if we get a couple legit NBA players.

Castle and Jeremy are still projects that need developing.
Branham will surely get another chance, even though I think he's a lost cause.
Adding another fundamentally flawed project would've been too much.
They obviously don't want Dillingham, our guard rotation should be set and every wing option was a project. Either can't defend or can't shoot.
Some will say why didn't they pick Knecht, but I'm taking a FRP and a swap over Doug McDermott.

I would've traded into late teens to have a low-risk swing, but whatever.

[baseline bum]

The pick should have been Devin Carter. They were too dumb to see it. DC is a two way dog with elite athletic ability. He also improved his shooting this year. Think Jalen Brunson but bigger more athletic and can play defense

On paper Carter looks like everything you could ask for, maybe even someone you'd have been willing to draft at #4. But that low release point and Slowmo-eque slow release are kind of frightening and gotta wonder if he'll be able to get that shot off in the NBA. Still remember how easily Rick Fox was able to close out on Danny Ferry who shot with a similar release on his 3 in the 2001 WCF.

[baseline bum]

They can trade for those picks back, just like Brooklyn did.

Brooklyn was only able to do that because of trading Durant to Phoenix though. If Minnesota has to trade Ant to get their picks back even better.

[vy65]

Brooklyn was only able to do that because of trading Durant to Phoenix though. If Minnesota has to trade Ant to get their picks back even better.

If they traded Ant to Utah in 2027, they’d have a four year rebuild with their own picks before the 2031 pick would convey.

[baseline bum]

2017 offseason with 50 Mills and supermax Pau Gasol

The Mills contract was ridiculous but they had to pay Gasol after he agreed to opt out to let them chase CP0. Can't imagine Gasol would have opted out of that $16 million he was due for 2017-18 if the Spurs hadn't promised him that 3 year deal if Paul didn't come.

[baseline bum]

I guess if we look from a homer standpoint, this is a win now move if we get a couple legit NBA players.

Castle and Jeremy are still projects that need developing.
Branham will surely get another chance, even though I think he's a lost cause.
Adding another fundamentally flawed project would've been too much.
They obviously don't want Dillingham, our guard rotation should be set and every wing option was a project. Either can't defend or can't shoot.
Some will say why didn't they pick Knecht, but I'm taking a FRP and a swap over Doug McDermott.

I would've traded into late teens to have a low-risk swing, but whatever.

I doubt it's a move to make a trade now since they have once again shown they want big point guards, so probably scratch Garland for example.

[cjw]

In many respects, it reminds me (though it is very different) than the situation the Dallas Cowboys have with their GM (or whatever the hell they call him, since Jerry Jones is the GM). A tough job where you're success is dependent upon the decisions of someone higher, but you'll get all the blame when it doesn't work.

A front office that has been putrid since the salary cap was introduced in 1994 (yes, I realize they won title the next year)? They haven’t made a conference championship game in 29 years, while the Spurs have made it that far 10x in that same span (11 if you include the year the Cowboys also last made it).

One of the FOs has shown an ability to adapt and be forward looking, while the other trips over its own two feet every time they’re at the cusp of being competitive.

[LeBowen]

I doubt it's a move to make a trade now since they have once again shown they want big point guards, so probably scratch Garland for example.

I was going along the lines of getting some spacing on the wings.
As I wrote in Castle's topic, I'd be happy with Barnes/Harris for some veteran leadership and using a FRP on Cam Johnson.
I'm 100% on point Castle train, but we need spacing. Jeremy can't start.

Castle-Devin-Cam-Barnes-Wemby is a functional lineup without weak links on defense.

[Dex]

After sleeping on it, I'm still disappointed but not as much as I was last night. It's still frustrating because I want to see this team improve in the short term, and the draft is one of the best avenues for the Spurs to do so. The #8 pick in the draft doesn't come around every day. For two decades, we would've been ecstatic to have a #8 pick, so kicking the can down the road was disappointing even if this was a "weak draft". We've seen plenty of good players come out of bad drafts.

I don't expect the Spurs to make any real splash in FA, or any fantastic trades to be made with our current assets...so I'm afraid we will have another team stuck in neutral next season and worry about how that will sit with Wemby. He seems okay with being patient, but patience starts to wane if you are losing 60 games a season.

Will the Spurs be able to package these picks for another star? Time will tell, but the Bridges trade shows what kind of assets that will cost.

Will Minnesota fall off a cliff, or will they be revamped by 2031/2031 and those suddenly become late 20s picks?

A lot of ins, a lot of outs, but definitely not the excitement I was hoping for in last night's draft.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What’s happening is Wright is scared to commit to anything due to fear of failure. As soon as there’s a difficult decision to make he punts.

last offseason was all about “no expensive mistakes” because he doesn’t trust his own judgment to not make a mistake. It’s just a continuation of that. There’s no expectation when you are acquiring picks. Trading way player for picks always reviews well. But at some point you have to actually make a move with those picks and Wright seems like a paralysis by analysis type


He's not afraid. He does exactly what Pop and RC tell him to do. And like any other time in Spurs history under Pop, when shit goes sideways, Pop will have his fall guy.

Wright is unqualified for this position. He even looked the other way on Primo's reported sexual tendencies. But he realized he can sweet talk Pop on politics and play the race card and Pop will never say a bad thing about him, until they need fall guy. They are perfect for each other, while the organization and Wemby will continue to suffer.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I’m impressed by your ability to scout 11-year-olds.

The issues with the Spurs’ front office are hubris and lack of accountability. They’re convinced they’re smarter than everybody else because of things that fell in their lap and moves they made 10-25 years ago, and ownership has complete trust in them regardless of results.

Nailed it.

[Mikesatx]

The philosophy is to build through the draft. We have our centerpiece and history suggests your looking at 5-7 years out before the generational talent is winning titles (Jordan & Lebron). Players won’t lose on purpose and you can’t produce fake injuries for an entire season. So with that in mind, if you are looking to stay in the lottery, develop your players and still keep your fan base interested what do you do? You play a non-shooting power forward as your point guard. You sell it is as trying to see what you have. You do it long enough to ensure the Spurs make the lottery and then you pivot to a real point guard to win some games and excite the fan base. Objective for the coming year will be similar (stay in the lottery). It won’t be done the same way. I don’t think we make any long term commitments this year to free agents so no big names. Next year in what is supposed to be a deep draft we have at least two picks possibly 4. I think that sets the young core. You run with that and then see what you need. That’s when I think the window for big trades and/or free agent signings start.

With Wemby you could very quickly build a team like the David Robinson Spurs where they are a contender but never quite good enough to win it all. The alternative is to sacrifice another year or two to get to the Tim Duncan Spurs and legitimately go for titles.

With all the losing last year the arena was livelier than it had been for a very long time and they were fun to watch. I agree with the strategy and think it will ultimately pay off in a big way.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

a week before the draft it was rumors of the Spurs shopping the 8th pick, so them trading the pick wasn't a panic option like many on here seem to think.

[Splits]

The philosophy is to build through the draft. We have our centerpiece and history suggests your looking at 5-7 years out before the generational talent is winning titles (Jordan & Lebron). Players won’t lose on purpose and you can’t produce fake injuries for an entire season. So with that in mind, if you are looking to stay in the lottery, develop your players and still keep your fan base interested what do you do? You play a non-shooting power forward as your point guard. You sell it is as trying to see what you have. You do it long enough to ensure the Spurs make the lottery and then you pivot to a real point guard to win some games and excite the fan base. Objective for the coming year will be similar (stay in the lottery). It won’t be done the same way. I don’t think we make any long term commitments this year to free agents so no big names. Next year in what is supposed to be a deep draft we have at least two picks possibly 4. I think that sets the young core. You run with that and then see what you need. That’s when I think the window for big trades and/or free agent signings start.

With Wemby you could very quickly build a team like the David Robinson Spurs where they are a contender but never quite good enough to win it all. The alternative is to sacrifice another year or two to get to the Tim Duncan Spurs and legitimately go for titles.

With all the losing last year the arena was livelier than it had been for a very long time and they were fun to watch. I agree with the strategy and think it will ultimately pay off in a big way.

stopped reading when you can't figure out your vs. you're

[Splits]

The fact that the Spurs didn't see the value of taking Dalton Knecht at #8 and taking Dilly to trade him for...nothing...tells you everything you need to know.

The FO has other agendas besides winning basketball games next year. They sure didn't help the Spurs on the basketball court.

And a lot of these new breed Spurs fans seem just fine with that.

hate to agree with this troll, but this is spot on.

fucking Lakers got Knecht

[jjspur]

Pop and RC may not be around in 2031. Seriously doubt B. Wright lasts another 2 years longer. Pop and RC think they’re smarter than everybody else, that they play chess when everyone else plays checkers. Spoiler alert - they're not. Looks like may be another long year.

[vy65]

The philosophy is to build through the draft. We have our centerpiece and history suggests your looking at 5-7 years out before the generational talent is winning titles (Jordan & Lebron). Players won’t lose on purpose and you can’t produce fake injuries for an entire season. So with that in mind, if you are looking to stay in the lottery, develop your players and still keep your fan base interested what do you do? You play a non-shooting power forward as your point guard. You sell it is as trying to see what you have. You do it long enough to ensure the Spurs make the lottery and then you pivot to a real point guard to win some games and excite the fan base. Objective for the coming year will be similar (stay in the lottery). It won’t be done the same way. I don’t think we make any long term commitments this year to free agents so no big names. Next year in what is supposed to be a deep draft we have at least two picks possibly 4. I think that sets the young core. You run with that and then see what you need. That’s when I think the window for big trades and/or free agent signings start.

With Wemby you could very quickly build a team like the David Robinson Spurs where they are a contender but never quite good enough to win it all. The alternative is to sacrifice another year or two to get to the Tim Duncan Spurs and legitimately go for titles.

With all the losing last year the arena was livelier than it had been for a very long time and they were fun to watch. I agree with the strategy and think it will ultimately pay off in a big way.

This is the point the sniffers keep missing - develop which players? Blake? Branham? Champegnie? Zollins? They've all already had 2-3 years of development. Over the past 2 years, none has shown the promise you'd need to be something other than 9th, 10th, 11th men on the roster. They certainly haven't flashed more upside potential than Dillingham, Williams, or Clingan. Everything coming out of PATFO - and echoed in Brian's comments yesterday - are that they want to stick with that core, make incremental changes (e.g., Castle) and keep trotting out the same 20-30 win team. That's one thing if you have players showing star or near-star potential and you need to let the process develop organically. This team does not have that. Other than Vassel (and maybe even him) there is not a single player on this roster with the talent to play a major role on a title-contending team that features Wemby. I am not saying that the entire team is talentless. I am saying that PATFO has shown themselves committed to a long-standing pattern of over-valuing their own talent to the detriment of taking concrete steps to improve.

Conversely, there should be nothing preventing them from looking to incremental steps to improve talent. Taking Dillingham or Matas or whomever at 8 would not vaunt them into contention. It would not upset their glacial pace of progress. It would have been an incremental steps towards assembling more, and better, talent. That makes far more sense than going full Heinke and stockpiling assets for a trade the likes of which this organization has literally never made.

If you take a step back, it looks like this organization is shizophrenic. On the one hand, they're committed to organic growth, letting players develop, liking "what they have" etc.... That path leans on building through the draft to amass as much (in this case, middling) talent as possible. On the other hand, trades like last night are more in line with teams that throw a shit-ton of picks and other assets at disgruntled stars. Those are two diametrically opposing paths (built vs. bought). And the scary thing is that it shows that this organization does not have a plan, a clear vision of the future, or a method of executing said plan or vision.

[Mikesatx]

stopped reading when you can't figure out your vs. you're
You sound like my sister. I’m pushing 50 years old, might be too old to change my poor grammar or spelling ways.

[Extra Stout]

Thinking some more… if the Spurs just put forth average effort to building a competitive team for 2024-25, given Wemby’s development they would win 35-40 games by accident. But that depresses their own pick in the 2025 draft.

So instead, they will go out of their way to build as shitty a team as possible that yet somehow still has long-term upside.

Castle is perfect because his shot will take a couple of years to work out. In 2024-25 they can play a heavy Castle-Sochan rotation with terrible spacing that can’t score because “good defense.” Wemby will be triple-teamed every time down the floor.

This definitely isn’t a case of their outsmarting themselves or thinking they can somehow game the system. Sniff, sniff.

[SpursDynasty85]

This is definitely a gamble. If Dillingham turns out to be a catalyst for Minnesota’s continued longevity then we definitely made a mistake. Minnesota has historically struggled with free agents but now they have a generational player in Anthony Edwards that could change that these next 3-4 years. Gobert will be done but KAT and Naz Reid and McDaniels will still be there which could still make a decent starting line up in 2030.

[Extra Stout]

The gamble is not based upon whether Dillingham pans out. It’s based upon whether ANY player that reasonably could have been picked at 8 pans out.

[Splits]

You sound like my sister. I’m pushing 50 years old, might be too old to change my poor grammar or spelling ways.

give her my number, your sure won't regret it when your digging you're grave

[poopbox]

I do agree with the posters who are saying this is almost certainly not Wright's doing. Wright very likely negotiated the trade with Minny for Dillingham, but it was probably not his call to punt on the pick in the first place. I think the decision to consider these years "runway" for all of the guys currently on the club is an organization stance rather than his personal desire. He's not free from blame at all. But I think the rot is coming from a deeper place, and Wright is just a person they hired to implement their desires.

Uh...he's the fucking general manager. Who else idea would it be? RC? Gregg with two g's? The Holt's? If Wright isn't going to do anything but be an errand boy he probably needs to leave SA and go do something else. Having no reputation is better than having a bad one for him at this point.

[Mikesatx]

The player development part of this is to develop everyone you have. Best case they either turn into someone that becomes part of the future dynasty or has enough value to trade and get someone that can turn into that or is already that. In my mind there are potentially 3 pieces maybe 4 on the current team that will be around when this team takes off. Wemby, Castle and Vassel. I think Tre might be the fourth as the back up point guard. The idea of adding talent incrementally is tricky. It only makes sense if that incremental piece is viewed as a piece that will get you to where you want to be. I think the organization is at a point where they want to either be a lottery team or a contender. Getting pieces that will make you better and get you in the play in game or a 7-8 seed and languishing there for a few years would be a mistake.They have draft capital and cap space both valuable. I think they get 2 more guys next year in the draft then take advantage of a team that is deep in the luxury tax and realizes they aren’t going to win a title. There are always a few of those each year.

[Dejounte]

Uh...he's the fucking general manager. Who else idea would it be? RC? Gregg with two g's? The Holt's? If Wright isn't going to do anything but be an errand boy he probably needs to leave SA and go do something else. Having no reputation is better than having a bad one for him at this point.

Huge denial from the folks who don’t like the events that transpired last night. Do people really think Brian Wright has no backbone and is just a minion for an evil puppeteer within the org?

[poopbox]

Minnesota is in tax hell already. Their bill for next season is north of $60 mil already before any moves they make. There's a significant possibility that they're unable to keep the team together even in the short run because they'll have some very tough decisions to make and will have to nail them. Absolutely love having a far out unprotected pick and a swap from them, it'll be great value.

Highly unlikely the wovles care about the tax. Their owner has basically reneged on selling the team to that group Arod is in, primarily because now that the wovles are good, they are rolling in fucking money.

So far the second apron hasn't deterred any team from spending money.

[Chinook]

Huge denial from the folks who don’t like the events that transpired last night. Do people really think Brian Wright has no backbone and is just a minion for an evil puppeteer within the org?

It's not denial. I didn't say Wright didn't want to trade the pick. I said the decision to do so was an organizational one rather than Wirght's individual decision. I fully expect PATFO hired a guy who agreed with them.

Newsflash to people: teams like Miami and Philly have general managers too, and they aren't Riley and Morey. The title doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Mr. Body]

Highly unlikely the wovles care about the tax. Their owner has basically reneged on selling the team to that group Arod is in, primarily because now that the wovles are good, they are rolling in fucking money.

So far the second apron hasn't deterred any team from spending money.

We haven't really seen the second apron yet. The truly onerous part is how it starts biting away a team's ability to make moves and improve itself.

[LeBowen]

Highly unlikely the wovles care about the tax. Their owner has basically reneged on selling the team to that group Arod is in, primarily because now that the wovles are good, they are rolling in fucking money.

So far the second apron hasn't deterred any team from spending money.

When they extend Naz and his contract kicks in 25-26 season, they'll be over the second apron with 7 players on the roster.
One of them being 38 year old Conley and two being high risk players they just drafted.
No chance to keep NAW.
And they have zero tradeable picks left.
If the next season doesn't go as planned, how do they stay relevant? It's not even about spending, but the rules preventing them from making any more moves.

[poopbox]

We haven't really seen the second apron yet. The truly onerous part is how it starts biting away a team's ability to make moves and improve itself.

True. But we also haven't seen a good team lose a significant player primarily because they were scared to become a second apron team.

Boston is a pretty good example. Paying Brown was going to set them on the path of being a second apron team. They paid him. Kristaps second year would move them toward becoming a second apron team. They paid him. Re-signing Holiday would move them toward being a second apron team. They paid him. Tatum super max is looming. I am confident they will sign him. So far Boston has had 3 chances to avoid moving toward the second apron. All 3 times they paid the money and moved closer to it.

I think teams are just going to build the team they want to build and not really care about the second apron. There are deals that it restricts but I'd have to look into it to see if they are even the type of deals that teams that blow past the tax even do. I remember watching a podcast awhile ago where one former basketball executive was saying the second apron is much to do about nothing, because the types of deals it restricts are deals that teams that have a payroll that high don't typically do in the first place.

When you look at the valuation of nba teams over time, it's obvious that the teams are making so much money that paying 10 of millions in over the cap tax isn't a big concern.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Highly unlikely the wovles care about the tax. Their owner has basically reneged on selling the team to that group Arod is in, primarily because now that the wovles are good, they are rolling in fucking money.

So far the second apron hasn't deterred any team from spending money.

I don't follow the logic that an organization in a complete ownership chaos will be good with spending tons of luxury tax for the foreseeable future because the current owner might win out against 2 guys who might not have money to buy the team. And that current owner has spent $25 mil on tax totally for the last 30 years he's owned the team. His bill currently is at $85 mil only for the upcoming season, before any moves.

[poopbox]

When they extend Naz and his contract kicks in 25-26 season, they'll be over the second apron with 7 players on the roster.
One of them being 38 year old Conley and two being high risk players they just drafted.
No chance to keep NAW.
And they have zero tradeable picks left.
If the next season doesn't go as planned, how do they stay relevant? It's not even about spending, but the rules preventing them from making any more moves.

Well they might not be paying Conley for very long since the Spurs just gift wrapped them a point guard.

7 players is around the number most teams play in the playoffs so I don't see that being a big deal.

What I am sure of is people said the Gobert trade wouldn't work and it did, he won DPOY in a wolves jersey and they have gone to the conference finals. What I am sure of is people have been saying the Wolves would need to trade Kat for financial or team building reasons, and they haven't.

[LeBowen]

Well they might not be paying Conley for very long since the Spurs just gift wrapped them a point guard.

7 players is around the number most teams play in the playoffs so I don't see that being a big deal.

What I am sure of is people said the Gobert trade wouldn't work and it did, he won DPOY in a wolves jersey and they have gone to the conference finals. What I am sure of is people have been saying the Wolves would need to trade Kat for financial or team building reasons, and they haven't.

Sorry, but you seem to be someone who doesn't understand how anything about cap space and roster building works.

It doesn't matter if they're going to be paying Conley or not, they'll be well over second apron if they don't get rid of one big contract.
Conley's $10M contract is irrelevant. He walks and then what? They're down to 6 players.
Maybe trade Conley for another useful player? Good luck with getting a useful rotation player for a 38 year old when you have zero tradeable picks to attach.

Even if both Dillingham and Shannon Jr become good rotation options, after Conley's gone they're at 6 useful players with no way to add more other than veteran minimums.
And Gobert is going to be 34 already at that point.

While Gobert trade did work out short term, they mortgaged their entire future only for him to be embarrassed by a team with a rookie center.
Good luck trading 30+ year old KAT on 60M a year contract anywhere.

If they don't make the finals next season, it's over unless Dillingham and Shannon both become high end starters and McDaniels takes another step.

[poopbox]

I don't follow the logic that an organization in a complete ownership chaos will be good with spending tons of luxury tax for the foreseeable future because the current owner might win out against 2 guys who might not have money to buy the team. And that current owner has spent $25 mil on tax totally for the last 30 years he's owned the team. His bill currently is at $85 mil only for the upcoming season, before any moves.

Well the reason they are in ownership chaos is because in 2021, when Arod group agreed to buy the team, The wolves were supposedly valued at 1.5 billion, and now in 2024, they are valued at 3 billion. If those numbers are even remotely correct, I doubt Taylor cares about spending 85 million if he knows he can now sell the team for around 3 billion anytime he wants.

[offset formation]

2017 offseason with 50 Mills and supermax Pau Gasol

Probably the right answer.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Huge denial from the folks who don’t like the events that transpired last night. Do people really think Brian Wright has no backbone and is just a minion for an evil puppeteer within the org?

You really think he does anything outside of what he's guided to do by Pop and R.C.?

How long you think anyone has a job if they don't work within the bounds and direction of their boss?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You really think he does anything outside of what he's guided to do by Pop and R.C.?

How long you think anyone has a job if they don't work within the bounds and direction of their boss?

This point is seriously getting weird - do you think the GMs of, say Philadelphia or Toronto or Utah, do anything outside of the guidance of Daryl Morey, Masai Ujiri and Danny Ainge?

They're decisions made by an agreement between multiple people, not just the GM. This is how things normally work and the GM position of an NBA team doesn't have complete autonomy. This is true for the Spurs, as well as for every other team.

[offset formation]

The gamble is not based upon whether Dillingham pans out. It’s based upon whether ANY player that reasonably could have been picked at 8 pans out.

This. It's almost like they just didn't want two top ten salary hits on second contracts hitting them at the same time they have just given Wemby the max the year before. I think this was solely a ownership call to stay cheap.

[slick'81]

This. It's almost like they just didn't want two top ten salary hits on second contracts hitting them at the same time they have just given Wemby the max the year before. I think this was solely a ownership call to stay cheap.


same ol cheap conservative spurs

[Knoxxx]

You sound like my sister. I’m pushing 50 years old, might be too old to change my poor grammar or spelling ways.

You must have seriously pwned him if he's hung up on your vs you're. Next thing you know it will "uprgade" into an argument about whether irregardless* is a word or not.

(*which is an incorrect word that sort of became a word because of its widespread incorrect usage)

[ChumpDumper]

I do love the "PATFO thinks they're smarter than anyone else" mantra.

Doesn't every executive group think this way?

Is there a group out there who claims themselves to be dumber than most?

This really seems like a money decision more than anything. Whether it's good or bad I guess depends on how much the ownership is going to spend in the future.

[Knoxxx]

Thinking some more… if the Spurs just put forth average effort to building a competitive team for 2024-25, given Wemby’s development they would win 35-40 games by accident. But that depresses their own pick in the 2025 draft.

So instead, they will go out of their way to build as shitty a team as possible that yet somehow still has long-term upside.

Castle is perfect because his shot will take a couple of years to work out. In 2024-25 they can play a heavy Castle-Sochan rotation with terrible spacing that can’t score because “good defense.” Wemby will be triple-teamed every time down the floor.

This definitely isn’t a case of their outsmarting themselves or thinking they can somehow game the system. Sniff, sniff.

Yes there is a 3-dimensional chess aspect to this which can play mind tricks on yourself very easily. Are we good enough to win it all? No of course not. May as well tank. No, unacceptable. Then we are reminded it is a long term thing, and drafting two more 19-year olds in a weak draft is FAR from a winning move. It is more of a tank move. But we don't want to tank. But we want to build from the draft. Holy smokes, circular paradoxes making all our brain's hurts. And everyone wants everything NOW, but that is not how life works.

I have also thought more about the Saluan situation, being that I thought he was way overrated. Makes sense that if he was there at 8, that was a move that would agree with Wemby and otherwise he could care less about pick 8. The real people aspect of this sucks, for Dilly to lobby for then get to wear a Spurs hat falsely, but with no impact to his $5 million annual salary we are reminded this is just a business and no reason to feel to badly for him. Plus, the Wolves did nicely in the draft by also snagging Shannon late first, I think it will be fun to watch how this draft works out for them.

[Mr. Body]

This. It's almost like they just didn't want two top ten salary hits on second contracts hitting them at the same time they have just given Wemby the max the year before. I think this was solely a ownership call to stay cheap.

I think you got it, but then lost it. The amount the Spurs pay this year won't change. If they didn't believe in a second lottery pick, this means they can pay for other players when they come due. It gives them flexibility, whether losing the player was good or not.

[Russ]

stopped reading when you can't figure out your vs. you're

Their both the same, your and you're.

[Knoxxx]

I do love the "PATFO thinks they're smarter than anyone else" mantra.

Doesn't every executive group think this way?

Is there a group out there who claims themselves to be dumber than most?

This really seems like a money decision more than anything. Whether it's good or bad I guess depends on how much the ownership is going to spend in the future.

i feel like it is more roster MGT on player development than $ but could be a combo. The funny part is that people think Dilly was a "win now" draft pick. I at least am more realistic than that.

[Mr. Body]

Unless freeing cap space this summer was a key goal, current money doesn't seem to be the cause. They seem legitimately to value putting out the ability to get good young talent when the team is presumably going deep into the playoffs.

They had 20 years of experience in how nearly impossible it is to get really good young players while you're contending. It nearly killed them off around 2010-2012 or so, when they pulled a magic trick and got Kawhi, and he could have easily not popped.

What I see is a franchise that very much wants to put out treasure chests along the trail they plan to be on in the next eight to ten years. I now expect them to set out more care packages to themselves in the future here and there and when they can.

[CitizenDwayne]

i feel like it is more roster MGT on player development than $ but could be a combo. The funny part is that people think Dilly was a "win now" draft pick. I at least am more realistic than that.

What is a "win now" player though? He may not "help" Minny much bc they're already good. SA lost 60 games, anyone that can score like that instantly makes them at least somewhat better imo.

We'll see. A lot of threads ima wanna revisit about halfway thru the season

[spurraider21]

Calm down. It really looks like ownership's maximizing profits while they can.
thank god

and here i was worried for nothing

[Knoxxx]

What is a "win now" player though? He may not "help" Minny much bc they're already good. SA lost 60 games, anyone that can score like that instantly makes them at least somewhat better imo.

We'll see. A lot of threads ima wanna revisit about halfway thru the season

Wemby was break even. Most rookies are a net negative. DRob was different because he was older and the team was set and same with Duncan. Now we see the diff between when you have a team that is set or not, which is a large one which speaks to your point. MN can use him more than us at the moment.

[spurraider21]

Huge denial from the folks who don’t like the events that transpired last night. Do people really think Brian Wright has no backbone and is just a minion for an evil puppeteer within the org?
nah, im always putting it all on wright. he's the GM, and if his job is performed poorly, he needs to go

and if he's just a figurehead for pop/rc, then they should fire him anyway because he's not doing anything anyway to earn his pay

[z0sa]

Unless freeing cap space this summer was a key goal, current money doesn't seem to be the cause. They seem legitimately to value putting out the ability to get good young talent when the team is presumably going deep into the playoffs.

They had 20 years of experience in how nearly impossible it is to get really good young players while you're contending. It nearly killed them off around 2010-2012 or so, when they pulled a magic trick and got Kawhi, and he could have easily not popped.

What I see is a franchise that very much wants to put out treasure chests along the trail they plan to be on in the next eight to ten years. I now expect them to set out more care packages to themselves in the future here and there and when they can.

It's a good strategy if you think your core can win and all you need to do is keep replenishing it. Can this core or a similar one after the 2025 draft win a title or at least basically immediately contend for one by 27 or 28, so much so that we'll have been riding high by 2030 and actually NEED those picks to continue doing? Obviously, if we're trash in 2030 we'll have our own pick(s) to rely upon.

Just saying, you don't forge a path using those treasure chests as the guides. They're powerups on the way, which won't be worth jack (except a reset button) if Wemby says I'm tired of sucking for 7 years and demands a trade. If we're just setting up Get Out of Jail free cards due to our inability to build a winning team before-hand, then we're putting the cart before the horse and ownership/money before winning. I don't want a reset button, I want 15+ years of Wemby or however long he can play at a high level. If that's really how it pans out, good. But there's no reason to assume, right now, we're even a playoff team with this core - much less making deep playoff runs year after year.

[OldMan88]

Their both the same, your and you're.

WTF?

[Knoxxx]

It's a good strategy if you think your core can win and all you need to do is keep replenishing it. Can this core or a similar one after the 2025 draft win a title or at least basically immediately contend for one by 27 or 28, so much so that we'll have been riding high by 2030 and actually NEED those picks to continue doing? Obviously, if we're trash in 2030 we'll have our own pick(s) to rely upon.

Just saying, you don't forge a path using those treasure chests as the guides. They're powerups on the way, which won't be worth jack (except a reset button) if Wemby says I'm tired of sucking for 7 years and demands a trade. If we're just setting up Get Out of Jail free cards due to our inability to build a winning team before-hand, then we're putting the cart before the horse and ownership/money before winning. I don't want a reset button, I want 15+ years of Wemby or however long he can play at a high level. If that's really how it pans out, good. But there's no reason to assume, right now, we're even a playoff team with this core - much less making deep playoff runs year after year.

As we continue to talk you down from the ledge, the wise move is to get a proven player not yet another draft pick flyer. If there was not an immediate deal available, punting was an acceptable option. If we just kept drafting players that turned into more of Sochan/Jones/Branham/Wesley, I am sure we would be seeing melt downs over that. There is certainly no guarantee that any of the picks in this draft were going to be can't miss guys. We need to make a trade for a veteran, Wright hinted something MAY be in the works, but at least they know what the possibilities are while are arm chair QBing it like we have all the answers (not).

I'll add that bringing in lower cost new talent can be a good move down the road also. Thus, the Spurs may already have the draft capital they need to make the 1-2 critical additions they need, and are indeed playing the long time re the new apron rules yada yada.

[JuneJive]

Unproven player now vs extra ammo for a proven player down the line.

Hmmm. Seems like an easy call.

[z0sa]

As we continue to talk you down from the ledge, the wise move is to get a proven player not yet another draft pick flyer. If there was not an immediate deal available, punting was an acceptable option. If we just kept drafting players that turned into more of Sochan/Jones/Branham/Wesley, I am sure we would be seeing melt downs over that. There is certainly no guarantee that any of the picks in this draft were going to be can't miss guys. We need to make a trade for a veteran, Wright hinted something MAY be in the works, but at least they know what the possibilities are while are arm chair QBing it like we have all the answers (not).

I'll add that bringing in lower cost new talent can be a good move down the road also. Thus, the Spurs may already have the draft capital they need to make the 1-2 critical additions they need, and are indeed playing the long time re the new apron rules yada yada.

I'm not any ledge, I get it. I replied to you (think in another thread) that 8 is definitely worth the picks if they land us an elite or even great player. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as we're setting up special treasure chests for ourselves down the way. They could be reset buttons, they could be under-utilized, and even if Wemby is a Spur for lifer, a scenario where we're relying on how we traded up to the 2030 or 31 draft to be good sounds like mismanagement of the roster to me. Then again, everything absolutely could work out great. I'm on the fence not a ledge, until we actually acquire the veteran or player or asset that we traded these picks for, friend Knoxxx, that's all. If they're treasure chests, that will be absolutely genius. If theyre GOOJF cards to replace guys Wright and Pop and company said we were holding out to develop, I can't say I'm elated but we won't know until later.

[ChumpDumper]

thank god

and here i was worried for nothing

:lolI know you hate hearing that but it is a business. Money moves are common in small markets. Spurfan should be used to it after 50 years.

[offset formation]

Their both the same, your and you're.

ISWYDT

[spurraider21]

:lolI know you hate hearing that but it is a business. Money moves are common in small markets. Spurfan should be used to it after 50 years.
do you have a rooting interest in the spurs basketball success, the holt's profit margins, or both?

[ChumpDumper]

do you have a rooting interest in the spurs basketball success, the holt's profit margins, or both?

The former. Do you have a rooting interest in shooting the messenger?

[scott]

I’m impressed by your ability to scout 11-year-olds.

The issues with the Spurs’ front office are hubris and lack of accountability. They’re convinced they’re smarter than everybody else because of things that fell in their lap and moves they made 10-25 years ago, and ownership has complete trust in them regardless of results.

BINGO

[Knoxxx]

I'm not any ledge, I get it. I replied to you (think in another thread) that 8 is definitely worth the picks if they land us an elite or even great player. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as we're setting up special treasure chests for ourselves down the way. They could be reset buttons, they could be under-utilized, and even if Wemby is a Spur for lifer, a scenario where we're relying on how we traded up to the 2030 or 31 draft to be good sounds like mismanagement of the roster to me. Then again, everything absolutely could work out great. I'm on the fence not a ledge, until we actually acquire the veteran or player or asset that we traded these picks for, friend Knoxxx (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16518), that's all. If they're treasure chests, that will be absolutely genius. If theyre GOOJF cards to replace guys Wright and Pop and company said we were holding out to develop, I can't say I'm elated but we won't know until later.

The ledge is just me being hyperbolic. Though I recall a certain well know poster who almost did jump over the 13 lost title, or at least was convincing that their life practically was ruined over it.

[Knoxxx]

The former. Do you have a rooting interest in shooting the messenger?

Is this another old married couple going at it? :married:

[offset formation]

Is this another old married couple going at it? :married:

Chock it up to frayed nerves caused by possible front office incompetence. I could have been either or both of them just now, lol.

[spurraider21]

The former. Do you have a rooting interest in shooting the messenger?
nope

a team specific forum seems to be an appropriate place to vent about poverty franchise antics