12 Thoughts After the Spurs Draft Stephon Castle, Trade Rob Dillingham

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/stephon-castle-thoughts-spurs-2024-nba-draft/

I'm sorry but I love unprotected first round picks.

[RC_Drunkford]

from Wright's interview it sounds like there's a trade on the table. I'm not mad about it, although I'm really high on Dillingham. Smart move by the T-Wolves.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPMBvGB5TE&t=329s

[spurraider21]

Nah this is cope. The assumption that the wolves will be a cellar dweller is a bet against prime Anthony Edwards who already looked like a legit top 5 player for the first 2 rounds of the postseason against a veteran suns team and the defending champs.

the swap is fools gold. We already owned an unprotected swap, so not only is there already the built in chance that the spurs natural pick is better than the wolves one, but now the wolves swap only matters if the wolves pick is also better than the mavs unprotected pick (which in and of itself is a bet against prime Doncic

even if the capital is better in a vacuum, 6-7 years is a VERY long time. 7 years ago the spurs had Kawhi who had just recently gotten Zaza’d and it seemed like we had a superstar for years to come. Durant was a warrior. There is a price tag on opportunity cost. This is a pick that could have been a solid role player for all those years. Every time the spurs make the playoffs in the next 7 years and feels like they were a player away from doing better, nobody is going to be thinking “it’s fine, we’ll get that guy in 2031”

this spurs roster isn’t close, but PATFO/Wright still seem to think our main path to improvement is internal growth which i find unfathomable

[tbdog]

On Castle. There are a lot of players that you can label 'if they learn to shoot they'll be a star.' Most don't improve to an avg level.

[rankingtear]

If we are making this pick then PATFO has done a great job. If we are using it in a star trade then PATFO did not succesfully built organically.

[024]

Nah this is cope. The assumption that the wolves will be a cellar dweller is a bet against prime Anthony Edwards who already looked like a legit top 5 player for the first 2 rounds of the postseason against a veteran suns team and the defending champs.

the swap is fools gold. We already owned an unprotected swap, so not only is there already the built in chance that the spurs natural pick is better than the wolves one, but now the wolves swap only matters if the wolves pick is also better than the mavs unprotected pick (which in and of itself is a bet against prime Doncic

even if the capital is better in a vacuum, 6-7 years is a VERY long time. 7 years ago the spurs had Kawhi who had just recently gotten Zaza’d and it seemed like we had a superstar for years to come. Durant was a warrior. There is a price tag on opportunity cost. This is a pick that could have been a solid role player for all those years. Every time the spurs make the playoffs in the next 7 years and feels like they were a player away from doing better, nobody is going to be thinking “it’s fine, we’ll get that guy in 2031”

this spurs roster isn’t close, but PATFO/Wright still seem to think our main path to improvement is internal growth which i find unfathomable

2031 pick value comes as a trade asset. Though I agree the swap is pretty low value in a year the Spurs already have one. Even the 2031 pick has questionable value today as it is 7 years out. But in a couple years, I guess it should be valuable enough to make a move. Who knows, a deal may already be in the works.

Initial reaction is that I hated the move since the pick is so far out and the swap was poor value. Didn't mind the Spurs trading the pick but think the value back was pretty low. Still don't like the move but can understand the rationale in terms of getting a trade asset back and preserving playing time for developing players. But this just means Sochan/Branham/Wesley need to start showing improvement. Would be very ugly if all 3 strike out.

[CitizenDwayne]

After sleeping on it, I still think this is horrible.

Rest of the nba is deservedly dunking on PATFO and we got threads justifying this

I love 1st rd picks as well. But when does panic set in?

Serious question: if we have another 50+ loss season, and then punt on the ‘25 draft to collect more picks, what then? We still gonna be pretending it’s 4d chess?

[mudyez]

First I hated drafting Dilly...then I loved trading him...then I hated it beeing for picks only...then I loved the loose protections...now I just wished it was the '31 switch and '30 pick, as that would not deminish die Mavs swap.

[LeBowen]

I love 1st rd picks as well. But when does panic set in?

It seems that you're already in full panic mode, so there's nothing to set in.


Rest of the nba is deservedly dunking on PATFO and we got threads justifying this

I don't like the decision, either. I can't get behind the reasoning that there wasn't a single good player left on the board or even an option to trade down outside the lottery considering how much talent we need, but if you care about what the rest of the league thinks, then idk if being a Spurs fan is the right choice for you

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

First I hated drafting Dilly...then I loved trading him...then I hated it beeing for picks only...then I loved the loose protections...now I just wished it was the '31 switch and '30 pick, as that would not deminish die Mavs swap.

MIN couldn't trade '30 because they've already traded '29 but the swap doesn't reduce the Mavs one at all - it basically works as the Spurs would get the best pick out of their own, Mavs and MIN.

[jjspur]

Unless the spurs have something up their sleeve (we'll wait and see), this was a pretty bad trade. Seven years in advance ...really ? Seems that the the brain trust thinks talent 7 years from now is worth more than talent now. I will bet that there will at least 1 all star in the talent taken on pick 8 and beyond, making the spurs look silly for doing so. They had their chance to draft a halfway decent player, they probably just blew it. Some brain trust.

[CitizenDwayne]

It seems that you're already in full panic mode, so there's nothing to set in.



I don't like the decision, either. I can't get behind the reasoning that there wasn't a single good player left on the board or even an option to trade down outside the lottery considering how much talent we need, but if you care about what the rest of the league thinks, then idk if being a Spurs fan is the right choice for you

Been a Spurs fan for over 20 years. I don’t normally care what the league thinks. But they’re right in this case and no spin or cope can change that. This is a bad move and all these guys slurping the FO would laugh all night if LA or HOU pulled weak shit like this

[LeBowen]

Been a Spurs fan for over 20 years. I don’t normally care what the league thinks. But they’re right in this case and no spin or cope can change that. This is a bad move and all these guys slurping the FO would laugh all night if LA or HOU pulled weak shit like this

There's no case in this spin if we don't get a couple of wings via trades or in free agency.
If wings picked at #8 or later develop into legit starters, there's a no move on this spin.

I also don't like Wright's track record when it comes to anything other than getting future assets, but I don't see what's doomering about this going to do.
We just have to wait and see how this summer plays out.

[exstatic]

First I hated drafting Dilly...then I loved trading him...then I hated it beeing for picks only...then I loved the loose protections...now I just wished it was the '31 switch and '30 pick, as that would not deminish die Mavs swap.

It essentially becomes the best pick of the 3 2030: picks, with Minny’s protected for pick 1. Your odds of a swap being something increase if you have two of them.

[Baam]

I agree with whoever said they panicked after Salaun got picked. Duncan himself almost left much earlier than year 8. Even as a trade asset, who is trading for it ? Who has enough job security to trade for this pick ? If you want to see the glass half full they maybe have everything lined up to get a very good starter this summer and they don't need anything short term.

[Obstructed_View]

Not the first time the Spurs fixated on a single player and failed to get value for the pick when their guy wasn't there. Hopefully the complete failure to grab a shooter is an indication of the improvement of Sochan, Wesley and Branham from outside.

[mudyez]

Yeah, I get that we get the best out of the three picks in '30, but if both of the DAL+MEM picks are better than ours, the lesser one just does nothing.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Guess I’m in the minority of sit back enjoy the ride and let the FO cook

[dbestpro]

I got it from the moment it happened. The Spurs greatest weakness was perimeter defense. They took a big step by adding a player who could become one of the best perimeter defenders in the league in Castle. Dillingham can score but his defense is as bad as it gets. That would have been one step forward and one step backward. Castle also has BBIQ which is another hole in the Spurs game that is glaring. Dillingham is an iso player. The Spurs have lots of picks over the next few years to find other high caliber players that are going to demand high salaries. Having unprotected picks in the future obtained from a poor draft is not just a championship move. It’s a dynasty move.

[Uriel]

For me, the most consequential part of the deal was the fact that they traded out of #8 at all. It means that the front office had Dillingham, Buzelis, Williams, Carter, Knecht, Topić, etc, for the taking, and they decided that none of them were worth a roster spot.

It means all those reports about one or the other having positive workouts and the Spurs being interested were smokescreens and that the front office didn’t like any of them enough to use a draft pick on them.

[lebomb]

I will give you one good reason this was a foolish trade.

No one knows the future. By 2030 we all may be gone. The way the world is today. :rolleyes

[Dejounte]

Just glad we didn’t end up with Risacher tbh

[baseline bum]

https://www.spurstalk.com/stephon-castle-thoughts-spurs-2024-nba-draft/

I'm sorry but I love unprotected first round picks.

So Salaun had to be a smokescreen too with Carter being one, right? Wonder if the Spurs planned to trade out of 8 the whole time or if perhaps they were targeting Holland there and bailed once Detroit took him 5.

[mystargtr34]

Yeah if this was 2 unprotected picks I’d prob accept that the spurs got a good deal. But when you think about Minnesota will get 7 years or production from Dillingam before Spurs get that 2031 pick is crazy :lol. Or another way to look at it spurs could have got 7 years of production from keeping the draft pick.

[jeebus]

So Salaun had to be a smokescreen too with Carter being one, right? Wonder if the Spurs planned to trade out of 8 the whole time or if perhaps they were targeting Holland there and bailed once Detroit took him 5.

Carter was easily a smoke screen, but I think for Salaun. Once he was gone, Spurs went back to the feelers they put out pre draft about trading the 8th and got the picks. I do love the wrist slitting in here; never change, upstairs.

[vy65]

“When stars are put on the trading block, teams typically want unprotected picks in return. That’s the currency in today’s NBA when going star hunting. Getting another one is a big deal for the Spurs.“

“Obviously, we won’t be able to truly judge this trade for years. My only hesitancy is the conservative nature of the front office. Will the front office ever have the cojones to go star hunting? We’ll see.”

Uhhhh

[Degoat]

Wonder what the spurs free agency plans will be? They have to add some shooting.

[CitizenDwayne]

I got it from the moment it happened. The Spurs greatest weakness was perimeter defense. They took a big step by adding a player who could become one of the best perimeter defenders in the league in Castle. Dillingham can score but his defense is as bad as it gets. That would have been one step forward and one step backward. Castle also has BBIQ which is another hole in the Spurs game that is glaring. Dillingham is an iso player. The Spurs have lots of picks over the next few years to find other high caliber players that are going to demand high salaries. Having unprotected picks in the future obtained from a poor draft is not just a championship move. It’s a dynasty move.

You got it immediately? You were sitting home pumping your fists at the prospect of those 2030 picks? I wish I could be as smart as you bro, something tells me you would have "got" any move they made

[Vienna]

so the whole story about the traded #8 pick is not told yet.

so I speculate......

there is a trade on the table for Garland. (you don't pick Dillingham, if you bring in Garland, right?)

looking at this is makes a lot of sense. Cavs have shipped out most of it's future draft capital to Utah.

Spurs can give them some and on top of this, they could design a package, that fit's well with the holes in the Cavs draft pick calender.

[vy65]

The dark underbelly to this trade is the seeming assessment (backed up by Brian’s comments) that we “have a talented young group together already”

[HankChinaski]

It's frustrating to see players that could increase the rosters floor for wins not get selected with the 8th pick. I like dilly but my gut reaction is that he will not pan out in this league. But getting value with someone like Knect or Carter (as examples) and seeing them be a net positive and used as a future trade for something better am wondering how that isn't equally as valuable before their rookie contract / extension expires in the immediate future.

I like the unprotected pick, the pick swap adds a bit more security with the other swap. But I don't love it.

I really hope Castle's shooting shows marked improvement because then we are just a few pieces away from being a playoff contender.

Need free agency to start so the rest of the pieces for the NBA season fall into place.

[scottspurs]

5 years from now Karl Anthony towns will be 34. Rudy Gobert will be 37. Timberwolves have very few avenues to build around Anthony Edwards. They have no draft picks to trade. Will have no cap space. Minnesota is not exactly a free agent destination. Even if Anthony Edwards signs another extension timberwolves at best could be on mediocracy treadmill come 2030. Imagine the spurs being able to move up from 30 to 17 in 2030. Then getting another pick on the teens in 2031. Now imagine Edwards leaves Minnesota. I wasn’t super pumped about the trade but I understand it

[Dejounte]

The main takeaways here are that

-The Spurs had Castle in a higher tier than Salaun, Holland, Clingan
-they POTENTIALLY had one or multiple of Salaun, Holland, and Clingan in a higher tier than everyone who was selected after 7: Dillingham, Buzelis, Knecht, Topic, Carter, Cody, etc.
-whether the Spurs had Sarr, Reed, and Zacch in the same tier as Castle or higher… we will never know

Rough outline:

Tier 1 AND 2:
-Castle
-Sarr
-Risacher
-Reed

Tier 3 (one or two may belong in tier 4 or below, we will never know)
-Salaun
-Clingan
-Holland

Tier 4 and below
-Buzelis
-Dillingham
-Knecht
-Carter
-Cody Williams

[baseline bum]

Carter was easily a smoke screen, but I think for Salaun. Once he was gone, Spurs went back to the feelers they put out pre draft about trading the 8th and got the picks. I do love the wrist slitting in here; never change, upstairs.

Think he had to be a smokescreen too, wouldn't make sense that the Spurs would be so tight-lipped about Castle but then the whole world knows they're in love with Salaun. God I would have hated taking Salaun #8.

[benefactor]

:lol all this sniffing and coping

Just like OV said, they locked in on their guy and bailed when he was gone. But they're building through the draft am I right? Doesn't that mean being able to evaluate talent and make decisions on talent? Anyone can bail when the pick isn't there that you want and take a couple of picks that are completely dependent on a team that looks like a very good team for the foreseeable future becoming a bad team again.

You know what that sounds like to me? It sounds like either you don't know how to evaluate talent or you don't have the balls to take a player that could potentially be a good player for you. It's deciding to fail before you ever gave yourself a chance to succeed.

[jeebus]

Think he had to be a smokescreen too, wouldn't make sense that the Spurs would be so tight-lipped about Castle but then the whole world knows they're in love with Salaun. God I would have hated taking Salaun #8.

True. Maybe they were hoping Sheppard would've fallen, if that. I just don't think they were particularly thrilled about anyone in this draft outside of Castle, who they've been following for a hot minute now. Salaun has Livio Jean Charles written all over him, and Dillingham would've made Isiaiah Thomas look like 2014 Kawhi, defensively.

[baseline bum]

True. Maybe they were hoping Sheppard would've fallen, if that. I just don't think they were particularly thrilled about anyone in this draft outside of Castle, who they've been following for a hot minute now. Salaun has Livio Jean Charles written all over him, and Dillingham would've made Isiaiah Thomas look like 2014 Kawhi, defensively.

God I did not want Salaun, he was the worst case at 8. How you gonna have a 7'1" wingspan and little ass Reed Sheppard has 3x as many blocks as you in the same number of games? :lol

Yeah Sheppard vs Castle would have been a tough choice had all the hype about Clingan at 3 been true.

[vander]

Guess I’m in the minority of sit back enjoy the ride and let the FO cook

right now the roster without Wemby is what they've cooked up. it was the league that cooked up Wemby to the Spurs.


the big question IMO is how much does ANT like Minnesota, cause if he bails after their window closes in a few years those picks could be amazing

[vy65]

:lol all this sniffing and coping

Just like OV said, they locked in on their guy and bailed when he was gone. But they're building through the draft am I right? Doesn't that mean being able to evaluate talent and make decisions on talent? Anyone can bail when the pick isn't there that you want and take a couple of picks that are completely dependent on a team that looks like a very good team for the foreseeable future becoming a bad team again.

You know what that sounds like to me? It sounds like either you don't know how to evaluate talent or you don't have the balls to take a player that could potentially be a good player for you. It's deciding to fail before you ever gave yourself a chance to succeed.

They’re building through the draft but also stocking picks to make a future all in trade on a disgruntled star - which they’ve never done in their history. They prioritize process over outcome, with that process being punting on being held to the result of said process. They highly valued this draft but apparently are higher on a batch of upcoming 11 year olds. They have a bunch of mediocre guards and a hole at the wing so they loaded up on yet another guard. They needed shooting but drafted a non-shooter. They had the ability to add some shooting at 8, but went out of their way to avoid doing so.

That’s what ineptitude looks like my dude.

[thOOdee]

100% agree timvp. Picking dilly would have pigeon holed us in getting a trey young type point guard, and after seeing the celtics provide a blueprint for what we should be aiming for to surround wemby, he wasnt the answer if you have dynasty aspirations. Buzelis was the only potential investment I saw available, but even watching just some highlights of him, any laymen can tell even he plays a bit awkward and would be a longshot at being the 3 and D player we need. Especially with what will be available next year.

Lastly, just look at what it took for the knicks to get BRIDGES! And people don’t think its going to cost an arm and a leg to get a legit #2 or even #3 next to wemby!? I know we as spurs fans aren’t used to losing, but patience is key. I can definitely see in two years from now when the team is finally looking respectable, these picks being used to get add a big piece to our puzzle.

[ambchang]

The spurs needed a PG who can shoot and a SF who can shoot. Neither of which were addressed in the draft when the spurs could’ve had Dillingham, Knecht, Williams or topic. (I wanted Williams, ok with Knecht and Dillingham, zero interest in topic). Instead the spurs got a guard version of sochan (I like sochan and I like castle for the record).

At this point, the spurs HAVE to have a plan to get a PG, a SF either through FA or trades, and also hire a damn legion of shooting coaches.

The team can build the 8th wonder of the world with all those bricks.

[baseline bum]

nm

[Cabrito]

Can one imagine the meltdown here if we had to trade three young former #1 picks for nothing like the Rockets did last year? ������

The haul feels underwhelming but we didn’t get fleeced. This was a great yet risky move by Minny. For us it was an ok move but not bad. If anything it cures any roster crunch this year.

[Dejounte]

The spurs needed a PG who can shoot and a SF who can shoot. Neither of which were addressed in the draft when the spurs could’ve had Dillingham, Knecht, Williams or topic. (I wanted Williams, ok with Knecht and Dillingham, zero interest in topic). Instead the spurs got a guard version of sochan (I like sochan and I like castle for the record).

At this point, the spurs HAVE to have a plan to get a PG, a SF either through FA or trades, and also hire a damn legion of shooting coaches.

The team can build the 8th wonder of the world with all those bricks.

Whatever Castle is (i think he’s a PG), the Spurs won’t be putting more players on that same pipeline tbh

meaning he has a 3 year tryout and the Spurs won’t draft a point guard or whatever position he is in the next three years

[cjw]

This was a bad draft - people need to stop comparing the value the Spurs landed for the #8 pick to other drafts. I would much rather punt … yes the pick they get back could be #32 if Ant turns into MJ and we have teams in Seattle and Vegas. But Gobert will be gone by then, they have little draft capital, and stars push their way off teams. By the way, who is their owner? They don’t even seem to have money to close the deal to buy the team.

If the choices at 8 were seen as just okay rotation pieces, I’d rather roll the capital into the future. You free up cap space immediately to spend on a veteran which the team needs, and you either get to draft a cheap guy in the future when Wemby is on a super max deal and cap space is harder to come by. Or you can use it in a trade, where an unprotected pick (and your own pick that has a swap attached) is more valuable than the draft rights to Dillingham or someone else which not all teams value.

I would have preferred a trade that dumped a little salary in the process too. Jettison Collins for something less putrid contract wise. But they got what they viewed was the best offer on the table in a bad draft.

[djohn2oo8]

Can one imagine the meltdown here if we had to trade three young former #1 picks for nothing like the Rockets did last year? ������

The haul feels underwhelming but we didn’t get fleeced. This was a great yet risky move by Minny. For us it was an ok move but not bad. If anything it cures any roster crunch this year.
Traded who?

[ulosturedge]

Have to think they were hoping a couple of players were gonna be there at 8 and it didn't happen. When they drafted Dilly I felt like it could have worked. You kind of had a second option if things didn't exactly pan out as expected. Also, what if Dilly ends up doing the same thing in the NBA he did in College with terrorizing defenses. Castle could have played a role of Combo guard and Dilly as an offensive spark. Who knows I guess they feel it would undermine Castle and his development. I still feel like that future pick is too far out. Gonna take a couple of years for that 1st round pick to gain any value if it does at all.

[kobyz]

The only way this trade could make sense is if Spurs gonna use the added cap space for some serious off season move, otherwise it's like Spurs front office is the worst gambler in the casino

[Ice009]

Traded who?

Glad you asked, because I was about to ask the same thing.

As for the draft, I really like Stephon Castle and what he brings (I'm a little worried about his shooting and really hope he improves there). I wanted defense, and we got it, as I just couldn't handle how bad the Spurs defense has been since TD retired and Kahwi left. Victor's defense is amazing, but he can't do it all, so great to see him get some help. If this is the road back to defense, I am liking the choice here.

I wasn't high on Dillingham, but when he was drafted to the Spurs, not gonna lie, I was really excited with the two picks, but then when he was traded after seeing him and his family all wearing Spurs caps, it really brought me right down.

I think the Spurs are looking at next year's draft and aren't looking to have a winning season this season, but if that is their plans, I'm not sure about it as Victor is just too good.

[rascal]

Think he had to be a smokescreen too, wouldn't make sense that the Spurs would be so tight-lipped about Castle but then the whole world knows they're in love with Salaun. God I would have hated taking Salaun #8.

It was a good night in that the spurs added Castle and stayed away from the Kentucky guards and Salaun.

[Chinook]

Just to be clear: Salaun and Carter weren't smoke screens. The Spurs likely thought Carter was their backup play at 8 if Castle were taken. They would've taken Salaun there and then Carter. It's possible too that one of the top-three would've fallen, leading to the Spurs taken them, losing Castle and then picking up Carter.

It seems the days of the Spurs legit being able to hide their intentions are over. So I'm going to start putting in more stock in rumors I hear. For example, I guess the Spurs are actually trying to trade for Garland. What would that package look like? Maybe Graham and Jones for Garland, which the rest being absorbed into the fresh cap space they made? Then of course are the picks. I'm thinking CHI25, ATL27, SAS28, SAS/DAL/MINN 30 and MINN 31 and a bunch of seconds. Thank goodness the Spurs have the trade capital. Otherwise how else could they have filled their need for a smaller scoring guard?

[Bill_Brasky]

Spurs got the best guy in a bad draft. Traded away a shit pick that nobody cared about for future first rounders. All good by me. But of course everyone here is an idiot who will bitch and act like that draft wasn't one of the worst ever and they should have taken some scrub whonthey didn't really want at 8 because "win now and fuck all strategy".

[Chinook]

Taking a guy in the draft has never been a "win now and fuck all strategy". Is this the extent that folks have to distort the world for it to make sense to them?

[benefactor]

Just to be clear: Salaun and Carter weren't smoke screens. The Spurs likely thought Carter was their backup play at 8 if Castle were taken. They would've taken Salaun there and then Carter. It's possible too that one of the top-three would've fallen, leading to the Spurs taken them, losing Castle and then picking up Carter.

It seems the days of the Spurs legit being able to hide their intentions are over. So I'm going to start putting in more stock in rumors I hear. For example, I guess the Spurs are actually trying to trade for Garland. What would that package look like? Maybe Graham and Jones for Garland, which the rest being absorbed into the fresh cap space they made? Then of course are the picks. I'm thinking CHI25, ATL27, SAS28, SAS/DAL/MINN 30 and MINN 31 and a bunch of seconds. Thank goodness the Spurs have the trade capital. Otherwise how else could they have filled their need for a smaller scoring guard?
You seem to have a lot of faith in an organization that never trades for anyone.

[SpursFan86]

I get the logic behind it, but:

1) To bullet point 10 in Timvp’s article, this FO hasn’t exactly shown much promise recently in terms of aggressively making moves to better the team. I would love to think that this means they’ll use those picks to make a splash elsewhere, but I just can’t. I could easily see us getting to 2031 and trading the 2031 24th pick for three future SRPs :lol

2) This seems like the type of move you’ve made once you’ve already established a decent core. We have no core! You can be optimistic about Sochan or any of the other guys all you want, but you can’t tell me it’s a given that we have even 2 guys that will be here in 3 years outside of Wemby. This team is lacking in damn near every aspect, and to this point we’ve shown no real willingness to get better through FA. So how do we get better? Through the draft…and what do you know, we had a bit of fortune go our way with Toronto’s pick falling out of the protections. Great! Now let’s just trade it away so we still have a dogshit team.

It’s not a terrible deal in a vacuum, but just based on how the Spurs seem to operate it doesn’t sit well with me to land a top 10 pick and not use it after seeing how terrible Wembanyama’s supporting cast was last year. And if they trade away 35 then I might have a full on meltdown :lol

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I think it's some truth to the spurs maybe making a trade soon. they are stock piling these picks like crazy. it was rumors before the draft that we were trying to trade the 8th pick, which turned out to be true

[rascal]

Just draft Cam Spencer for some bench shooting at 35 today.

[R. DeMurre]

One thing these moves do for me is cement the idea that the Spurs do not want a smallish PG, so all of the rumors surrounding Trae Young, Darius Garland, and any other guys of that ilk should be viewed with extreme skepticism. They passed on Dilly, passed on Devin Carter, tried to make Sochan a PG, hoped to make Primo a PG, stubbornly wouldn't start Tre Jones when he was the best option, etc., etc... If the idea is to experiment with Castle at PG, it only reinforces this idea of an obsession with a bigger PG, because in theory handing over the reins to a guy with no history of 3pt shooting success at all (as with Sochan also) shows that the size theory is first and foremost in their minds.

[jeebus]

God I did not want Salaun, he was the worst case at 8. How you gonna have a 7'1" wingspan and little ass Reed Sheppard has 3x as many blocks as you in the same number of games? :lol

Yeah Sheppard vs Castle would have been a tough choice had all the hype about Clingan at 3 been true.

Exactly. It's just a dog shit draft. Risacher may very well challenge Bennett to shittiest #1 pick of all time. Spurs have potentially 7 picks in next year's loaded draft. 7. Why the fuck do people want an anorexic midget on the books so badly?

[tbdog]

See I'm higher on the trade than on Castle. Seems most of ST are different. I don't see Castle an on the ball player. And if he is an off the ball non shooter, what is he doing? Just guard version of Sochan? Look the Spurs obviously really liked his workout. The trade is tops. I wonder if Edwards asked out in 2028, the twolves want their picks back?

[Splits]

I have 1 thought after the Spurs draft: fuck this shit

Unless they flip these 7 year picks for something, this is some holy grail level 1 bullshit

[baseline bum]

Exactly. It's just a dog shit draft. Risacher may very well challenge Bennett to shittiest #1 pick of all time. Spurs have potentially 7 picks in next year's loaded draft. 7. Why the fuck do people want an anorexic midget on the books so badly?

I'd be surprised if Risacher busts. Good size, can shoot, and plays decent defense. Just see him as Harrison Barnes. Maybe he hits the upside of that and becomes a fringe allstar while Barnes definitely hit the low end of his projections but I think Atlanta fucked up going the conservative route instead of drafting upside with Sarr. Once Sarr saw that first paycheck he would have been fine playing in ATL.

[Dejounte]

One thing these moves do for me is cement the idea that the Spurs do not want a smallish PG, so all of the rumors surrounding Trae Young, Darius Garland, and any other guys of that ilk should be viewed with extreme skepticism. They passed on Dilly, passed on Devin Carter, tried to make Sochan a PG, hoped to make Primo a PG, stubbornly wouldn't start Tre Jones when he was the best option, etc., etc... If the idea is to experiment with Castle at PG, it only reinforces this idea of an obsession with a bigger PG, because in theory handing over the reins to a guy with no history of 3pt shooting success at all (as with Sochan also) shows that the size theory is first and foremost in their minds.

I was going to say the same thing. It’s clear now that they’re aiming to have no defensive liability on the court at any time. To solve this, they want to attain versatile players who can defend multiple positions.

[Mr. Body]

A day ago, everyone hated Rob Dillingham. Today, everyone loves Rob Dillingham.

I exaggerate, but this is mostly true. The issue isn't with passing on him, it's passing on everyone. Personally, it's going to hurt not having him, but I get it. Didn't think they would take him in the first place.

It's the passing on the pick that has everyone reeling, not the player. And the assets being pushed so far out. But if you see 1) this draft as pretty meh, and 2) the pick as a gimme from Toronto, then it makes sense. The pick and swap will come when we badly need them. There's a good chance Minnesota, with KAT and Gobert basically done, with having practically no good picks between now and then, will be out of the playoffs once again. Their window is now.

As for not getting Buzelis or Knecht or even Carter... well, I thought Carter was an excellent possibility, they just value a need for good picks when Wembanyama is 26 than now. They got their priority in the draft - imo Castle was always the priority - and set up more goods in the future.

[Spurs9]

I have 1 thought after the Spurs draft: fuck this shit

Unless they flip these 7 year picks for something, this is some holy grail level 1 bullshit
Everyone defending the move is straight cope. Look at the Wizards managed to get for for Deni. No one here can sell me on the idea that a pick 7 years away was the best package the Spurs could get for the 8. The knicks traded the 24th to the Wizards and got back 26th and 51. Those 2nd rounder could be more valuable than the trash the Spurs got developing a diamond in the rough on a cheap contract.

[JPB]

First of all, we have no idea if spurs actually wanted Salaun. That's collective self conviction. And if you ask me, whatever their intentions were, no one will regret they didn't get Salaun.

Second, I'm personnally happy spurs didn't add another two rookies to develop this year to the roster, specially an uncertain one in Dilly, but just picked a guy whose game have the most probabiltiy to translate to the NBA and become a valuable player. that also means, despite what Wright might say about the current roster that they want to keep room for vets and that we might see some trades this summer, maybe including the picks they just got.

I don't know if they plan to play Castle PG but also picking Dilly would have been another messy season and an unhappy Wemby in the making with an NBA back up PG (Tre) and two rookies, to play the point next year, including one who's not really one and the second who ca'nt defend.

[Joseph Kony]

That was a pretty underwhelming draft all things considered. Then again, we hear the same shit every year about how every team is looking at other moves and expect a bunch of trades and then nothing happens :lol

Punting Dilly for a pick 7 years from now isn't that big of a deal, especially if the spurs eventually package their assets for a star. still, for such a bad team, hard to not have a sour taste in your mouth after having the 3rd highest pick since TD in 1997 and then trading it immediately

[JPB]

Oh and third, they might just prefer next year's draft to find their PG of the So no point picking Dilly or Topic this year.

[Splits]

First of all, we have no idea if spurs actually wanted Salaun. That's collective self conviction. And if you ask me, whatever their intentions were, no one will regret they didn't get Salaun.

Second, I'm personnally happy spurs didn't add another two rookies to develop this year to the roster, specially an uncertain one in Dilly, but just picked a guy whose game have the most probabiltiy to translate to the NBA and become a valuable player. that also means, despite what Wright might say about the current roster that they want to keep room for vets and that we might see some trades this summer, maybe including the picks they just got.

I don't know if they plan to play Castle PG but also picking Dilly would have been another messy season and an unhappy Wemby in the making with an NBA back up PG (Tre) and two rookies, to play the point next year, including one who's not really one and the second who ca'nt defend.

Agree with all of the bolded but c'mon wtf a 2030 pick? At least get a bench/role player, not a 10 year old who will be pushing dirt on Pops grave.

[JPB]

Agree with all of the bolded but c'mon wtf a 2030 pick? At least get a bench/role player, not a 10 year old who will be pushing dirt on Pops grave.

They might use it in a trade. And you can't ofc really plan on that, but I won't have a problem passing on Dilly this year if they get a vet PG to put some order and competitivity this summer then get a Nolan Traoré next year who will be mentored by said vet PG and take over the reigns in 3-4 years.

[BatManu20]

I would've liked Carter at 8 tbh, but I think PATFO are either holding out hope for a Darius Garland trade or they're targeting Nolan Traore in next year's class.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I will give you one good reason this was a foolish trade.

No one knows the future. By 2030 we all may be gone. The way the world is today. :rolleyes
Danny Ainge made a "foolish trade" in 2013 because he received picks while the Nets received players
The Rockets made a “foolish trade” in 2021 by trading Harden because they basically only got picks and the Nets became champions... oh wait

[JPB]

And I mean a Traoré or any playmaker/creator you will find next year, including swingmen.

[Chomag]

I like Castle alot, but yes ove got my concerns of him becoming a consistent shooter to be a threat for defenses to respect. He seems like someone that's willing to put alot of work in improving himself though.

It does seem that the FO isn't committed into wining for at least another year but I wonder if Wemby wants to be on that same page.

[Mr. Body]

For a guy who was killing everyone in workouts, Devin Carter didn't get picked until 13. That's a great spot for him, but maybe that was exaggerated a bit.

[Spurs Homer]

Exactly. It's just a dog shit draft. Risacher may very well challenge Bennett to shittiest #1 pick of all time. Spurs have potentially 7 picks in next year's loaded draft. 7. Why the fuck do people want an anorexic midget on the books so badly?

Awesome!

We will be here next year- same time/same place and Brian Wright will draft 1 non shooting upstanding citizen and trade the other 6 for 6 swaps in 2047!

[Ice009]

I would've liked Carter at 8 tbh, but I think PATFO are either holding out hope for a Darius Garland trade or they're targeting Nolan Traore in next year's class.

I think the Spurs are looking at bigger players. I don't see them trading away Dillingham and then going for another smaller guard.

[JPB]

Fans preaching (reasonable) patience and strategy, should actually see that as a smart/wise move, if you consider the 2025 class is certainly much better than this year. there's only so much room and playing time for youngsters to develop.

Picking and adding a second rookie just because you can, in the exctiment of the moment, doesn't make sense if you beleive you'll find better next year.

[spurs50_]

Where can I find NBA mock draft for 2031 ?, trying to get a head start.

[SpursBills]

The trade looks better in a vacuum if you look at it like trading Poeltl for an unprotected pick and swap in the future. Unfortunately with Wemby already accelerating the timeline and the dysfunction of last years team, this just seems like the front office has their priorities mixed up and don’t value the importance of building a functional team as a means to develop young players. Really signaling another tank in 2025 right now which is unfortunate.

[Splits]

Fans preaching (reasonable) patience and strategy, should actually see that as a smart/wise move, if you consider the 2025 class is certainly much better than this year. there's only so much room and playing time for youngsters to develop.

Picking and adding a second rookie just because you can, in the exctiment of the moment, doesn't make sense if you beleive you'll find better next year.

Fine. Agree on not drafting teenager projects. But 2031? what in the actual fuck

[rjv]

It essentially becomes the best pick of the 3 2030: picks, with Minny’s protected for pick 1. Your odds of a swap being something increase if you have two of them.

this sort of calculus may be beyond the train of thought of some cliff jumpers.

[John B]

from Wright's interview it sounds like there's a trade on the table. I'm not mad about it, although I'm really high on Dillingham. Smart move by the T-Wolves.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPMBvGB5TE&t=329s

Regarding the 8th pick, his answer “can’t speak to specifics, but in a point in time, it will.” Something is cooking, trade assets for hopefully a Star asking multiple FRP’s - Markkanen? Mitchell? Demar? Excited to what lies ahead

[Darkwaters]

Everyone defending the move is straight cope. Look at the Wizards managed to get for for Deni. No one here can sell me on the idea that a pick 7 years away was the best package the Spurs could get for the 8. The knicks traded the 24th to the Wizards and got back 26th and 51. Those 2nd rounder could be more valuable than the trash the Spurs got developing a diamond in the rough on a cheap contract.

Minnesota's 1st rounder for the next several years is going to be of very low value. I'm assuming Minnesota was more than willing to trade picks from closer drafts but that our FO was the one that insisted on picks at a time when they felt Minnesota would suck.

[Mugen]

It's easy to just kick the can down the road and keep dangling the "mystery box" option to Spurfan.

They've accumulated assets so I'll give them credit for that. But at some point, you're gonna have to play a hand and build an actual contender. And they've shown nothing in the last 5 years to give me any confidence they can actually do that tbh.

[Mugen]

Regarding the 8th pick, his answer “can’t speak to specifics, but in a point in time, it will.” Something is cooking, trade assets for hopefully a Star asking multiple FRP’s - Markkanen? Mitchell? Demar? Excited to what lies ahead

Nothing is cooking. He just can't comment on it because the trade isn't official yet. I guarantee you that this was not part of some other big trade "cooking" this summer :lol


Minnesota's 1st rounder for the next several years is going to be of very low value. I'm assuming Minnesota was more than willing to trade picks from closer drafts but that our FO was the one that insisted on picks at a time when they felt Minnesota would suck.

They had no early picks left to trade, they all belong to Utah tbh.

[Mugen]

Just a shame that one of their biggest strengths during the Timmy years (drafting) has been so underwhelming outside of lucking into the biggest can't miss prospect since Bron tbh.

If they can't draft well during the Wemby, they're done, absolutely done.

[poopbox]

I actually think it's the opposite. It's going to be difficult for the Spurs to give these picks away until probably 2028 because what GM is going to be willing to take a 1st round pick 6 and 7 years into the future when they probably won't even be at their job anymore?

This was definitely a we outsmarted ourselves moment for the Spurs. Not surprised. The next good thing this front office does that involves an actual nba player who isn't a rookie will be the first one they had in 6 years.

[TekXX]

Fuck this FO, they won't do anything with those minnesota picks just like they did nothing with getting the 8th pick this year. They've been shit for 10 years putting out mediocre teams so i'm not sure why anyone has faith in their decision making. The ownership lets Pop run this thing with no concern about actually putting a decent product out there so it's no surprise that he feels he's got another 10 years working on this thing, making us competitive. Seriously the Spurs needs to clean house but who's going to pull the trigger on that, it won't be popovich.

[Chomag]

Brian Wright did the same thing when he was in Detroit which amounted to nothing helpful

[Teamduncan21]

Where can I find NBA mock draft for 2031 ?, trying to get a head start.


Start scouting your local high school games

[Chomag]

Actually those players are probably in middle school right now lol

[Robz4000]

Spurs did exactly what I wanted them to do and traded out of this draft for value and what they got was better than I thought possible for 8 tbh. Liked Dilly but after he weighed in at 164 lbs my interest waned. Spurs got BPA at 4, an unprotected first, and made their 2030 pick much more enticing for possible future trades.

[My Fault]

Fans preaching (reasonable) patience and strategy, should actually see that as a smart/wise move, if you consider the 2025 class is certainly much better than this year. there's only so much room and playing time for youngsters to develop.

Picking and adding a second rookie just because you can, in the exctiment of the moment, doesn't make sense if you beleive you'll find better next year.
Exactly my thoughts, picking a player who you don’t truly believe in just to pick a player makes no sense. The Spurs can play out next season, get a further look at what they have and then two shots in a much deeper draft to fill in the holes.

[CitizenDwayne]

And to the "too many players" argument...let's take a look at some of these studs taking up space on this roster:

Blake Wesley
David Duke Jr
Devonte Graham
Jamaree Bouyea
Julian Champagnie
Malaki Branham
Raiquan Gray
Sidy Cissoko

Dillingham will be better than any of these turds DAY 1 and we gave him to a team that just made the WCF

[jmard5]

I'm also in the minority. Looking ahead to the next seven years, if the Timberwolves experience some setbacks while the Spurs build a strong playoff contender, those future draft picks San Antonio acquired could become valuable assets, especially if they turn into lottery picks.

San Antonio made a great choice selecting Stephon Castle at #4. They're on the right track.

[Spurs9]

Minnesota's 1st rounder for the next several years is going to be of very low value. I'm assuming Minnesota was more than willing to trade picks from closer drafts but that our FO was the one that insisted on picks at a time when they felt Minnesota would suck.

And they didn't have to trade it to Minny. Could have probably finesed a team like Wizards or Pistons for way earlier picks.

[Truckules]

Nothing is cooking. He just can't comment on it because the trade isn't official yet. I guarantee you that this was not part of some other big trade "cooking" this summer :lol



They had no early picks left to trade, they all belong to Utah tbh.

I think the trade can't be official until after the draft because of the 7 year rule for the 2031 pick. I think this affects the Bridges trade as well which is why that hasn't gone through officially either.

[SpursDynasty85]

Ultimately Spurs dlntyqant to pay Dilley and Castle at the same time. I wonder if Salaun’s availability would have changed things

[Spurs9]

Spurs secretly going after KD?

[CitizenDwayne]

Spurs secretly going after KD?

Yeah Krugan Daudov, Russian high schooler with some serious upside. Can't shoot but is long and defends well

[z0sa]

Unless a trade is on the table, this was a fold of the 24-25 season before it even began. Cost cutting measure at best. Yeah, we'll have unprotected picks to trade - years down the line, years of losing, it seems like.

Sucks ass, hard to see it any other way unless they make a trade soon.

[Knoxxx]

I think part of the issue here is playing time. We have multiple young players that need some playing time to determine whether they can develop or need to be cut loose. Playing Castle AND Dillingham is probably not very realistic. So Dilly goes to Austin, a #8 pick, or just sits on the bench?

As we know, a rookie can take 2-3 years to develop. Then we have a boatload of picks next year as well. While it is fun to assemble a roster of 15+ players that you like, the reality of it is some are not going to be playing at all. If you combine that with actually trying to win, even less so. This year we got to bench the starters for the end stretch and see more of Mamu, Graham, etc but that may not be in the cards next season.

Then as has been noted, when we go to acquire a star, we are likely going to need to include some FRPs in the mix. On the ATL example, they gave us 3 FRPs or whatever for Murray, so they at least need those back but we don't want to give them the 25 pick. Well, there you go, give the 2031 instead and now we are potentially back in business with them.

My wife was HIGHLY annoyed when I told her Dilly was traded, home don't play that she was like WTFFFFFFFFF???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not sure she will ever watch a draft again, LOL.

I was hoping the Dilly trade was going to bring us back a player, like Naz Reid, pipe dream apparently. :-(

[SpursGenius]

Looks like Tim mvp did a 180 after he said trade was bad yesterday. It was a bad trade. No two ways about it. Needed that swap to be another pick by itself to make it palatable. Ie 1:2. Not 1:1. Horrible trade.

[Knoxxx]

Looks like the edit function is broke, it was *homey doesn't play that. My wife would string up Wright if she could, LOL.

[CitizenDwayne]

I think part of the issue here is playing time. We have multiple young players that need some playing time to determine whether they can develop or need to be cut loose. Playing Castle AND Dillingham is probably not very realistic. So Dilly goes to Austin, a #8 pick, or just sits on the bench?

As we know, a rookie can take 2-3 years to develop. Then we have a boatload of picks next year as well. While it is fun to assemble a roster of 15+ players that you like, the reality of it is some are not going to be playing at all. If you combine that with actually trying to win, even less so. This year we got to bench the starters for the end stretch and see more of Mamu, Graham, etc but that may not be in the cards next season.

Then as has been noted, when we go to acquire a star, we are likely going to need to include some FRPs in the mix. On the ATL example, they gave us 3 FRPs or whatever for Murray, so they at least need those back but we don't want to give them the 25 pick. Well, there you go, give the 2031 instead and now we are potentially back in business with them.

My wife was HIGHLY annoyed when I told her Dilly was traded, home don't play that she was like WTFFFFFFFFF???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not sure she will ever watch a draft again, LOL.

I was hoping the Dilly trade was going to bring us back a player, like Naz Reid, pipe dream apparently. :-(

Who are our young guards that still need developing and would be taking minutes from Dilly in this scenario?

[z0sa]

In my opinion, you have to be okay with losing needlessly for years to save the ownership money to also be okay with this draft.

IDGAF about these rich fucks and their money saving. We have Wemby, we'll have a full house every night. They simply want to maximize profits, winning be damned - for now. I reserve the right to take this back if a major trade occurs by the trade deadline and we're at least in okay play-in position, but I don't see it. The projection is we're another lottery team with only Castle, and perhaps another bottom 4 team as well. The penny pinchers in ownership called this, and PATFO were happy (for job security reasons) to take them at their word.

The backlash begins in earnest this season. Either Castle is extremely good and improves fast and is already an NBA-caliber starter who can add a significant number of wins to a shit team, or we make a trade. Otherwise, we gave up on 2025 at its very beginning, an unforgivable move. I'd have rather we draft Topic than this non-sense, but I'm just a normal fan, not a rich asshole who owns a sports team.

[Knoxxx]

Looks like Tim mvp did a 180 after he said trade was bad yesterday. It was a bad trade. No two ways about it. Needed that swap to be another pick by itself to make it palatable. Ie 1:2. Not 1:1. Horrible trade.

It feels lame in a vacuum, but as I said it was going to be hard to play Dilly and to think he is a win or contribute right away player may be overly optimistic. This is the 160 pound guy we were also afraid would get abused, though it felt more fun to see him give it a try in the silver and black for sure.

We will need to see what other moves the Spurs make. If they had nothing lined up, that also feels lame but jumping to that conclusion is probably a bit of a leap.

Weird situation for sure!

[Knoxxx]

In my opinion, you have to be okay with losing needlessly for years to save the ownership money to also be okay with this draft.

IDGAF about these rich fucks and their money saving. We have Wemby, we'll have a full house every night. They simply want to maximize profits, winning be damned - for now. I reserve the right to take this back if a major trade occurs by the trade deadline and we're at least in okay play-in position, but I don't see it. The projection is we're another lottery team with only Castle, and perhaps another bottom 4 team as well. The penny pinchers in ownership called this, and PATFO were happy (for job security reasons) to take them at their word.

The backlash begins in earnest this season. Either Castle is extremely good and improves fast and is already an NBA-caliber starter who can add a significant number of wins to a shit team, or we make a trade. Otherwise, we gave up on 2025 at its very beginning, an unforgivable move. I'd have rather we draft Topic than this non-sense, but I'm just a normal fan, not a rich asshole who owns a sports team.

I get that it's annoying, but going on a rant about the FO being too cheap to spend $5 million per year on a player does not make mathematical sense. Rookies are actually a good deal, financially. Veterans are typically ungodly expensive, these days...so axing a rookie then acquiring a veteran is probably not the "FO being cheap", LOL.

[z0sa]

It feels lame in a vacuum, but as I said it was going to be hard to play Dilly and to think he is a win or contribute right away player may be overly optimistic. This is the 160 pound guy we were also afraid would get abused, though it felt more fun to see him give it a try in the silver and black for sure.

We will need to see what other moves the Spurs make. If they had nothing lined up, that also feels lame but jumping to that conclusion is probably a bit of a leap.

Weird situation for sure!

Unless you think Tre Jones and Blake Wesley will peak higher than Dillingham and deserve all the playing time, this doesn't make any sense. Both of those guys should have immediately been trade fodder or simply end of the bench guys, as their skill level dictates (provided Dillingham brings it like he did in college). We would have had a WAY more exciting regular season, at least, unless Rob is a total bust and simply can't play on the floor due to his defensive woes. Let's not mention the fact that our "core" could already be formed and growing together starting this season. Instead, it's more non-sense about "development" when we won't even commit to an 8th pick.

We shall see, but punting for picks 7 years down the line was God-awful as the situation stands now. I'm hoping against hope that a trade is the reason for this.

[Leetonidas]

I'm not gonna complain too much until the rest of the summer plays out. If the Spurs make moves to add talent or package the picks for a star then fine. But if they do jack shit and we have a repeat of last summer this trade is going to look like ass

[z0sa]

I get that it's annoying, but going on a rant about the FO being too cheap to spend $5 million per year on a player does not make mathematical sense. Rookies are actually a good deal, financially. Veterans are typically ungodly expensive, these days...so axing a rookie then acquiring a veteran is probably not the "FO being cheap", LOL.

Would they not spend less if they don't sign a rookie at 8 as well??

[LeBowen]

In my opinion, you have to be okay with losing needlessly for years to save the ownership money to also be okay with this draft.

IDGAF about these rich fucks and their money saving. We have Wemby, we'll have a full house every night. They simply want to maximize profits, winning be damned - for now. I reserve the right to take this back if a major trade occurs by the trade deadline and we're at least in okay play-in position, but I don't see it. The projection is we're another lottery team with only Castle, and perhaps another bottom 4 team as well. The penny pinchers in ownership called this, and PATFO were happy (for job security reasons) to take them at their word.

The backlash begins in earnest this season. Either Castle is extremely good and improves fast and is already an NBA-caliber starter who can add a significant number of wins to a shit team, or we make a trade. Otherwise, we gave up on 2025 at its very beginning, an unforgivable move. I'd have rather we draft Topic than this non-sense, but I'm just a normal fan, not a rich asshole who owns a sports team.

You really think a #8 pick in such weak draft would help us in the upcoming season?
For reference, last year's draft was way stronger even if we exclude Wemby, all of the top5 selections were marketed as players with superstar upside.

Fast forward and it's pretty obvious that most of them were overestimated.
Wemby, Miller, Lively and Jaquez were the only four rookies who had actual impact on winning games.

Drafting Dillingham, Willams, Buzelis or even a more ready prospect like Knecht wouldn't have helped much.
It's pointless to have meltdowns over this pick.

I'm waiting to see what's the roster going to look like on opening night. If we don't get two competent wings, then I'm going to have a meltdown.

[z0sa]

You really think a #8 pick in such weak draft would help us in the upcoming season?
For reference, last year's draft was way stronger even if we exclude Wemby, all of the top5 selections were marketed as players with superstar upside.

Fast forward and it's pretty obvious that most of them were overestimated.
Wemby, Miller, Lively and Jaquez were the only four rookies who had actual impact on winning games.

Drafting Dillingham, Willams, Buzelis or even a more ready prospect like Knecht wouldn't have helped much.
It's pointless to have meltdowns over this pick.

I'm waiting to see what's the roster going to look like on opening night. If we don't get two competent wings, then I'm going to have a meltdown.

It's not just an 8th pick anymore, it's Rob Dillingham. We selected him and traded him. He does have the most offensive upside of a guard in this entire draft, so yes, I think he would have helped us win games, maybe a lot of them, at this point, and that's not ridiculous or melting down. it's being objective.

[Knoxxx]

Who are our young guards that still need developing and would be taking minutes from Dilly in this scenario?

Well you can't just consider the young guards, we also have established ones. Vassell, Castle, there are two automatically above the pecking order right there. Tre Jones, are we going to just bench him for Dilly? What if Dilly is actually unplayable for a season or two? Branham/Wesley are the sore thumbs sort of, we are still rostering them and nobody can prove Dilly is any better than them. PATFO did not view Dilly as any sure bet or great fit for the team, and they may well be right. Cissoko is even listed as a guard.

And the Spurs may be acquiring a veteran PG, with the newly acquired 2031 pick as part of the package. Since we don't know that, we are only guessing in the wind as to whether the trade makes sense or not. But i certainly feel your annoyance, we all want to stop being a 22 win team!

[LeBowen]

It's not just an 8th pick anymore, it's Rob Dillingham. We selected him and traded him. He does have the most offensive upside of a guard in this entire draft, so yes, I think he would have helped us win games, maybe a lot of them, at this point, and that's not ridiculous or melting down. it's being objective.

It's not Rob Dillingham, it's #8 pick.
Minnesota traded for that pick and told Spurs which player to select. They could've asked for Buzelis, Spurs would've made the same trade, it was irrelevant to them who was Minnesota's target.
Reports are that they were trying to get into top10 and finally found a partner in Spurs.

Anyhow, I was one of the biggest propnents of Dillingham in here and wanted the Spurs to draft ihm.
But our current strategy is obviously not to draft undersized players or bad defenders.
I also think Dillingham will be good, but what can you do.

If they didn't want him, I'm glad the pick was traded instead of it being wasted on someone like Buzelis.

[z0sa]

Also, I don't see how you can see our guard rotation of Wesley, Branham, and Tre and not think Rob Dillingham might not be better than at least 2 of them. Even if only Tre and Wesley (though Branham started at the 1 last years repeatedly), Rob has as much upside offensively and more than Wesley does defensively. I think we guaranteed Branham and Wesley and we're willing to sacrifice 8 because of it (the cost). PATFO/ownership are running it back and banking on trading for someone in a few years time or, us actually being good in 6-7(!!!!) years and needing a young infusion, which is putting the cart before the horse, if you ask me. I'll be happy to be wrong about everything when a trade occurs, which is likely years down the road. The picks aren't useless by any means, but will they be worth Rob Dillingham and a possible financial savings of not signing him? We'll see how it all plays out. I'll be a critic until then.

[Knoxxx]

You really think a #8 pick in such weak draft would help us in the upcoming season?
For reference, last year's draft was way stronger even if we exclude Wemby, all of the top5 selections were marketed as players with superstar upside.

Fast forward and it's pretty obvious that most of them were overestimated.
Wemby, Miller, Lively and Jaquez were the only four rookies who had actual impact on winning games.

Drafting Dillingham, Willams, Buzelis or even a more ready prospect like Knecht wouldn't have helped much.
It's pointless to have meltdowns over this pick.

I'm waiting to see what's the roster going to look like on opening night. If we don't get two competent wings, then I'm going to have a meltdown.

Yeah remember Scoot Henderson, the Thompson twins. Pretty worthless players their first season, what about year two or three? Who knows.

[z0sa]

It's not Rob Dillingham, it's #8 pick.
Minnesota traded for that pick and told Spurs which player to select. They could've asked for Buzelis, Spurs would've made the same trade, it was irrelevant to them who was Minnesota's target.
Reports are that they were trying to get into top10 and finally found a partner in Spurs.

Anyhow, I was one of the biggest propnents of Dillingham in here and wanted the Spurs to draft ihm.
But our current strategy is obviously not to draft undersized players or bad defenders.
I also think Dillingham will be good, but what can you do.

If they didn't want him, I'm glad the pick was traded instead of it being wasted on someone like Buzelis.

The value of the 8th pick is Rob Dillingham. Other arguments in a vacuum are irrelevant. That's who was picked, and that's who we can now tie the value to. I hope you're right and he sucks, though, to be fair.

[slick'81]

Keep pounding that f'n rock i guess

[LeBowen]

The value of the 8th pick is Rob Dillingham. Other arguments in a vacuum are irrelevant. That's who was picked, and that's who we can now tie the value to. I hope you're right and he sucks, though, to be fair.

The value should be tied to any of the picks made in that let's say #8-13 range because Spurs could've had any of those guys.
Williams, Buzelis, Topic, Carter. If any of those guys turn out to be legit starters or better, then I'll be upset with the Spurs because they passed on prospects who developed into good players.

But other than Carter, those three are long-term projects who won't do much next season or even the season after.

[Knoxxx]

Also, I don't see how you can see our guard rotation of Wesley, Branham, and Tre and not think Rob Dillingham might not be better than at least 2 of them. Even if only Tre and Wesley (though Branham started at the 1 last years repeatedly), Rob has as much upside offensively and more than Wesley does defensively. I think we guaranteed Branham and Wesley and we're willing to sacrifice 8 because of it (the cost). PATFO/ownership are running it back and banking on trading for someone in a few years time or, us actually being good in 6-7(!!!!) years and needing a young infusion, which is putting the cart before the horse, if you ask me. I'll be happy to be wrong about everything when a trade occurs, which is likely years down the road. The picks aren't useless by any means, but will they be worth Rob Dillingham and a possible financial savings of not signing him? We'll see how it all plays out. I'll be a critic until then.

I think the Spurs are probably looking to acquire a PG, perhaps Murray or Garland. The only wildcard there is Castle, since that moves him too the 2 guard, which is what Vassell plays. But, Castle is also big enough to play the 3 and be considered a "wing", so I think we got a useful player by all accounts either way. And Castle starting from the get go, maybe. I thought the poster who mused about Keldon Johnson now being a starter was interesting, since I had no idea how that followed. I think they had Castle starting also with Vassell.

I think for now though it is safe to assume that Castle is primarily a guard and that means that minutes at the position were less available for Dillingham as a second guard in this draft.

[z0sa]

Maybe I was attached because I called Dilly at 8 as the best possible scenario for us. It's of course, certainly possible FO and I know others here didn't agree with that. I do believe, as we stand right now with no 2024 NBA draftees having played a minute of action, that Dillingham was our best pick at 8 and could have aided us in rebuilding - at least as far as winning games. We could then have traded him for better than unprotected firsts, or at least a similar haul. The main difference being our win/loss tallies and our financials. Then again, if Dilly ends up being impossible to play due to his defensive struggles, perhaps we win the evening after all. Or, the 30/31 picks are key in a trade. It's not impossible, but it's not like picking Dillingham could have been construed as a huge mistake from anything other than the financial side if he didn't pan out. Hence why I see this as cost cutting at face.

[Knoxxx]

Also, I don't see how you can see our guard rotation of Wesley, Branham, and Tre and not think Rob Dillingham might not be better than at least 2 of them. Even if only Tre and Wesley (though Branham started at the 1 last years repeatedly), Rob has as much upside offensively and more than Wesley does defensively. I think we guaranteed Branham and Wesley and we're willing to sacrifice 8 because of it (the cost). PATFO/ownership are running it back and banking on trading for someone in a few years time or, us actually being good in 6-7(!!!!) years and needing a young infusion, which is putting the cart before the horse, if you ask me. I'll be happy to be wrong about everything when a trade occurs, which is likely years down the road. The picks aren't useless by any means, but will they be worth Rob Dillingham and a possible financial savings of not signing him? We'll see how it all plays out. I'll be a critic until then.

Another issue here is that I believe the timing is such that we had to pick up options on Branham/Wesley for the UPCOMING season before we saw them play in the PREVIOUS season. Now I get that we want to just move on from those players as fans, but the FO may not be ready to see it that way. They may believe that one or both of those players are progressing well enough that Dilly is unneeded, and/or will never be able to play NBA level defense.

But as was pointed out, the Spurs just didn't like anybody left and it was never about Dilly at all, it was the whole pool of players left that were meh to the FO.

[Sugus]

It's not just an 8th pick anymore, it's Rob Dillingham. We selected him and traded him. He does have the most offensive upside of a guard in this entire draft, so yes, I think he would have helped us win games, maybe a lot of them, at this point, and that's not ridiculous or melting down. it's being objective.

That's the opposite of being objective, lol.

The belief that Dilly would've helped us win "maybe a lot of" games next season is your personal, subjective belief. He can just as easily be physically overwhelmed as an underweight and undersized rookie, and fail to make an impact on games that isn't negated on the other side of the court. His performance is anything but certain.

[ducks]

https://www.spurstalk.com/stephon-castle-thoughts-spurs-2024-nba-draft/

I'm sorry but I love unprotected first round picks.
Only if they can flip it to a close to a all star player in the next 2-3 years

[z0sa]

The value should be tied to any of the picks made in that let's say #8-13 range because Spurs could've had any of those guys.
Williams, Buzelis, Topic, Carter. If any of those guys turn out to be legit starters or better, then I'll be upset with the Spurs because they passed on prospects who developed into good players.

But other than Carter, those three are long-term projects who won't do much next season or even the season after.

I agree, I suppose. I just think Dillingham was the best pick out of all of those, but that's my opinion, so my mistake. In my eyes, though, the value is Dilly and a couple of far out unprotected firsts. Hopefully, that's actually high value and you're all correct.

[thOOdee]

Also, I don't see how you can see our guard rotation of Wesley, Branham, and Tre and not think Rob Dillingham might not be better than at least 2 of them. Even if only Tre and Wesley (though Branham started at the 1 last years repeatedly), Rob has as much upside offensively and more than Wesley does defensively. I think we guaranteed Branham and Wesley and we're willing to sacrifice 8 because of it (the cost). PATFO/ownership are running it back and banking on trading for someone in a few years time or, us actually being good in 6-7(!!!!) years and needing a young infusion, which is putting the cart before the horse, if you ask me. I'll be happy to be wrong about everything when a trade occurs, which is likely years down the road. The picks aren't useless by any means, but will they be worth Rob Dillingham and a possible financial savings of not signing him? We'll see how it all plays out. I'll be a critic until then.

Picking Dillly means investing in him becoming THE POINT GUARD. The next parker, a cornerstone to the franchise, where anything other than winning MULTIPLE TITLES w wemby would be an utter disappointment. Even if dilly reaches the heights of say "trey young", does anybody honestly feel that type of player will win you multiple rings. Dilly has the opportunity to prove people wrong being next to ant on a decent team, but I HIGHLY DOUBT we'll see the t-wolves hanging any banners anytime soon, and in a few years you'll see the them in the same situation Atlanta is in right now, stuck in mediocrity having to decide whether to keep moving forward or tank hard. A situation the spurs MUST avoid if they have any shot in keeping wemby for the long haul.

[Knoxxx]

Maybe I was attached because I called Dilly at 8 as the best possible scenario for us. It's of course, certainly possible FO and I know others here didn't agree with that. I do believe, as we stand right now with no 2024 NBA draftees having played a minute of action, that Dillingham was our best pick at 8 and could have aided us in rebuilding - at least as far as winning games. We could then have traded him for better than unprotected firsts, or at least a similar haul. The main difference being our win/loss tallies and our financials. Then again, if Dilly ends up being impossible to play due to his defensive struggles, perhaps we win the evening after all. Or, the 30/31 picks are key in a trade. It's not impossible, but it's not like picking Dillingham could have been construed as a huge mistake from anything other than the financial side if he didn't pan out. Hence why I see this as cost cutting at face.

I was against picking Dilly at 4 like some posters, as I felt strongly Castle was better and Dilly would fall to 8. I was excited about getting Castle/Dilly, that was my ideal scenario but let's hope it's checkers vs chess with the FO on the right side of this one.

[LeBowen]

I agree, I suppose. I just think Dillingham was the best pick out of all of those, but that's my opinion, so my mistake. In my eyes, though, the value is Dilly and a couple of far out unprotected firsts. Hopefully, that's actually high value and you're all correct.

Dillingham was also my first choice at #8 for the same reasons, he looked like the only player in the draft with no fundamental flaws when it comes to actually playing basketball.
I thought that taking a risk after taking a high-floor player in Castle would be worth it, but PATFO valued getting an unprotected pick and a swap more.
The only thing we can do now is wait and see how this summer plays out. We surely can't go into the season with Keldon/Jeremy/Champagnie wing rotation.

[CitizenDwayne]

Well you can't just consider the young guards, we also have established ones. Vassell, Castle, there are two automatically above the pecking order right there. Tre Jones, are we going to just bench him for Dilly? What if Dilly is actually unplayable for a season or two? Branham/Wesley are the sore thumbs sort of, we are still rostering them and nobody can prove Dilly is any better than them. PATFO did not view Dilly as any sure bet or great fit for the team, and they may well be right. Cissoko is even listed as a guard.

And the Spurs may be acquiring a veteran PG, with the newly acquired 2031 pick as part of the package. Since we don't know that, we are only guessing in the wind as to whether the trade makes sense or not. But i certainly feel your annoyance, we all want to stop being a 22 win team!

Branham and Wesley. No Rob, one of the best scorers in the draft, bc we promised minutes to Bramham and Wesley. Ok

[Knoxxx]

I agree, I suppose. I just think Dillingham was the best pick out of all of those, but that's my opinion, so my mistake. In my eyes, though, the value is Dilly and a couple of far out unprotected firsts. Hopefully, that's actually high value and you're all correct.

The biggest issue is drafting a dynamic player like Dilly, then trading him almost instantly, is a major draft night BUZZKILL for us fans, FOR SURE!!!

[z0sa]

That's the opposite of being objective, lol.

The belief that Dilly would've helped us win "maybe a lot of" games next season is your personal, subjective belief. He can just as easily be physically overwhelmed as an underweight and undersized rookie, and fail to make an impact on games that isn't negated on the other side of the court. His performance is anything but certain.

It's objectively looking at who has the most potential to increase our wins out of the slots at 8 to aid our team. No one's opinion is objectively based on anything but conjecture in the draft, so yes, that was an objective take based on what evidence we have. No one's performance is certain, so you really don't have any point here unless you're saying Dillingham was objectively not worth an 8th pick in this draft, which would have the disagreement of the TWolves who just spent what some consider high value unprotected draft picks on.

What are you arguing was not objective, IE not based upon stats and level of play, the fact the TWolves traded up to get him, etc?

[Sugus]

Having said that, I'm not ultra high on the trade myself; it's never nice to see a prospect selected to your team then insta-traded. But a point I haven't seen discussed yet:

The new CBA that has been agreed to by the NBAPA is significantly more constricting on roster building and salary management for teams that are capped out, as the Suns will learn. I've heard multiple people explain the increased difficulty on talent addition for teams over the cap, nevermind luxury tax territory.

Given that we know Wemby is a sure-fire Max, hopefully Supermax as he stays with his franchise, it's great to have picks available down the line, when you project to already have your roster set-up and paid for. The Wolves are a historically anemic franchise and there's few teams I'd rather gamble on being terrible in the future -- hell, this same CBA may end up tearing apart their current team sooner than later.

In this context, I like the trade. But I still don't want to see the Spurs actively tank out the next season. We'll see what happens.

[bigfan]

Methinks Dillingham is the NBA equivalent of Deuce Vaughn. I will trust the Spurs front office on this one.

[CitizenDwayne]

If there'a blockbuster trade ill eat crow but we all know that ain't happening.

[LeBowen]

Fwiw, Branham's college stats:
14/3/2 on 50/41/83
6'5 with 6'10 wingspan.
Turned out to be an atrocious defender.

I think that's the biggest reason for PATFO giving up negative defenders.
If Dillingham was an awful defender in college, what do you think is going to happen in the NBA at his size?

[Degoat]

So what’s our cap situation with us trading the 8th pick and most likely not guaranteeing grahams contract

[Knoxxx]

Branham and Wesley. No Rob, one of the best scorers in the draft, bc we promised minutes to Bramham and Wesley. Ok

It sounds absurd on its face, but otherwise it seems like FO has given up on BOTH Branham and Wesley and I am not sure it is really time for that yet. Maybe one or the other still proves keepable off their rookie deals, obviously keeping both seems less probable.

You are making an assumption that Dilly scoring translates to the NBA automatically. That is not guaranteed, he may start out ice cold from 3 PT range and get decimated on defense. He may be the offensive version of the defensive Wesley, can do one but terrible at the other. We think he may be a good playmaker, but didn't they think that about Scoot Henderson?

I hate that we won't see Dilly as a Spur to find out, but these draft picks are a crapshoot and if this pick nets us a veteran we like that is a proven commodity, that is a bird in hand. Yes, I know it is lame if we have nothing lined up but the bigger picture remains untold for now at least.

[LeBowen]

So what’s our cap situation with us trading the 8th pick and most likely not guaranteeing grahams contract

Castle will get $7M in his rookie year.
Champagnie will surely be guaranteed, $3M.
Idk about Bassey, if his knees are done, if they guarantee him that's $2.5M.
Waiving Graham would mean it's just around $2M guaranteed.

With Bassey and Champagnie guaranteed, Graham waived it should be around ~$115M with $141M cap.
We have to see what happens in the second round, that could be a few million more.

[Sugus]

It's objectively looking at who has the most potential to increase our wins out of the slots at 8 to aid our team. No one's opinion is objectively based on anything but conjecture in the draft, so yes, that was an objective take based on what evidence we have.

This is, again, subjective talk. I'll easily show you why: I believe that Carter, and not Dillingham, had the most potential to increase our wins at #8 (I seriously do, btw). Both of our predictions are equally subjective and opinion-based.


No one's performance is certain, so you really don't have any point here unless you're saying Dillingham was objectively not worth an 8th pick in this draft, which would have the disagreement of the TWolves who just spent what some consider high value unprotected draft picks on.

What are you arguing was not objective, IE not based upon stats and level of play, the fact the TWolves traded up to get him, etc?

My point was clear; to the question raised of whether Dilly would've significantly helped the team next season, you said he "objectively" would add many wins, which is anything but objective. Dilly remains a prospect that seems better suited for the bench than starter material. While the Spurs no doubt could use bench power, I disagree that he would've won us many games, and wasn't high on him pre-draft.

I'm arguing your weight on Dilly is subjective. Please don't make me explain this any further, I'm tired of the word "subjective" already, lol.

[Sugus]

Fwiw, Branham's college stats:
14/3/2 on 50/41/83
6'5 with 6'10 wingspan.
Turned out to be an atrocious defender.

I think that's the biggest reason for PATFO giving up negative defenders.
If Dillingham was an awful defender in college, what do you think is going to happen in the NBA at his size?

Exactly this, tbh.

For all the shit they got during the Forbes & Millz era, people sure aren't liking when they go the opposite direction either :lol

[z0sa]

Another issue here is that I believe the timing is such that we had to pick up options on Branham/Wesley for the UPCOMING season before we saw them play in the PREVIOUS season. Now I get that we want to just move on from those players as fans, but the FO may not be ready to see it that way. They may believe that one or both of those players are progressing well enough that Dilly is unneeded, and/or will never be able to play NBA level defense.

But as was pointed out, the Spurs just didn't like anybody left and it was never about Dilly at all, it was the whole pool of players left that were meh to the FO.

I agree 100%. We guaranteed them due to how the CBA works, IIRC. They both performed less than I think most had hoped, but it's not up for discussion (in terms of the financials) whether they'll be on the payroll next season. Therefore, I think the Dillingham pick was the Spurs pick (perhaps after Salaun was taken), which they offered to teams for unprotected firsts since they didn't want to see if they could squeeze all of the guard rotation in before making a value judgment on Branham (specifically) and perhaps Wesley (I would consider Branham the more promising project on paper, though I personally like Wesley's defensive upside more) as well as save money.

It "makes sense," it just doesn't sit well that we managed to back ourselves into a corner over guys like Branham and Wesley. I do believe Dillingham has the potential to be better than either, at least offensively, but that's TBD.

[Knoxxx]

It's objectively looking at who has the most potential to increase our wins out of the slots at 8 to aid our team. No one's opinion is objectively based on anything but conjecture in the draft, so yes, that was an objective take based on what evidence we have. No one's performance is certain, so you really don't have any point here unless you're saying Dillingham was objectively not worth an 8th pick in this draft, which would have the disagreement of the TWolves who just spent what some consider high value unprotected draft picks on.

What are you arguing was not objective, IE not based upon stats and level of play, the fact the TWolves traded up to get him, etc?

Once again big picture. Dilly being a "win now" player is a hard sell, not sure anyone actually thought that. And what then would we win, being a fringe play in team? What does that get us, come 2025 draft time? So we are in an awkward situation where we can't become a solid playoff team overnight, or even in one offseason. But we aren't trying to only win 22 games again.

We are in a weird sort of limbo, just to clarify for you, LOL.

[DAF86]

timvp always does this thing of trying to justify an unpopular PATFO decision at the next day, even if he, himself, isn't buying it, tbh. :lol

I don't remember what he wrote after reaching for Primo, but probably tried to give it a positive spin. I apreciate the sentiment, but I'm not buying it, tbh. :lol

[SpursGenius]

First of all, we have no idea if spurs actually wanted Salaun. That's collective self conviction. And if you ask me, whatever their intentions were, no one will regret they didn't get Salaun.

Second, I'm personnally happy spurs didn't add another two rookies to develop this year to the roster, specially an uncertain one in Dilly, but just picked a guy whose game have the most probabiltiy to translate to the NBA and become a valuable player. that also means, despite what Wright might say about the current roster that they want to keep room for vets and that we might see some trades this summer, maybe including the picks they just got.

I don't know if they plan to play Castle PG but also picking Dilly would have been another messy season and an unhappy Wemby in the making with an NBA back up PG (Tre) and two rookies, to play the point next year, including one who's not really one and the second who ca'nt defend.
Rationalize much. Lol

[Knoxxx]

I agree 100%. We guaranteed them due to how the CBA works, IIRC. They both performed less than I think most had hoped, but it's not up for discussion (in terms of the financials) whether they'll be on the payroll next season. Therefore, I think the Dillingham pick was the Spurs pick (perhaps after Salaun was taken), which they offered to teams for unprotected firsts since they didn't want to see if they could squeeze all of the guard rotation in before making a value judgment on Branham (specifically) and perhaps Wesley (I would consider Branham the more promising project on paper, though I personally like Wesley's defensive upside more) as well as save money.

It "makes sense," it just doesn't sit well that we managed to back ourselves into a corner over guys like Branham and Wesley. I do believe Dillingham has the potential to be better than either, at least offensively, but that's TBD.

Some of the issues here as we are talking through is we had the 3 first round draft picks previously. Some of us would like all 3 of those players gone already, but we got put into that bind of having to commit to them a season ahead. Now the Spurs may be thinking let's make darn sure it is a great prospect, before repeating that scenario even in just duplicate rather than triplicate. The solid possibility of 3 FRP draft picks next year also looms again, from a roster MGT perspective which has many implications, money, player development, etc. It's all more complicated than I even like to think about.

BUT, that said, losing a shiny new toy like Dilly immediately on draft night does nothing but suck in the short term. We feel your pain!!!

[SpursGenius]

Just to be clear: Salaun and Carter weren't smoke screens. The Spurs likely thought Carter was their backup play at 8 if Castle were taken. They would've taken Salaun there and then Carter. It's possible too that one of the top-three would've fallen, leading to the Spurs taken them, losing Castle and then picking up Carter.

It seems the days of the Spurs legit being able to hide their intentions are over. So I'm going to start putting in more stock in rumors I hear. For example, I guess the Spurs are actually trying to trade for Garland. What would that package look like? Maybe Graham and Jones for Garland, which the rest being absorbed into the fresh cap space they made? Then of course are the picks. I'm thinking CHI25, ATL27, SAS28, SAS/DAL/MINN 30 and MINN 31 and a bunch of seconds. Thank goodness the Spurs have the trade capital. Otherwise how else could they have filled their need for a smaller scoring guard?
No. We aren’t giving up all our picks for a guy who is a midget on defense. We could have had Carter who will be everything Garland is with defense. And bigger body. We also keep all our first rounders. The trade was a joke and all nba gms are laughing at us. We will get a lot of phone calls now because they know it’s keystone cops running organization.

[spurraider21]

an unprotected pick doesnt necessarily mean the pick will be good. whether or not the raptors pick was top 6 protected or unprotected, it was still winding up #8 overall

[SpursGenius]

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) always does this thing of trying to justify an unpopular PATFO decision at the next day, even if he, himself, isn't buying it, tbh. :lol

I don't remember what he wrote after reaching for Primo, but probably tried to give it a positive spin. I apreciate the sentiment, but I'm not buying it, tbh. :lol
He doesn’t want disgruntled posters. Means less traffic. He said himself the trade was bad last night. Now does 180 this morning. lol

[DAF86]

First of all, we have no idea if spurs actually wanted Salaun. That's collective self conviction. And if you ask me, whatever their intentions were, no one will regret they didn't get Salaun.

Second, I'm personnally happy spurs didn't add another two rookies to develop this year to the roster, specially an uncertain one in Dilly, but just picked a guy whose game have the most probabiltiy to translate to the NBA and become a valuable player. that also means, despite what Wright might say about the current roster that they want to keep room for vets and that we might see some trades this summer, maybe including the picks they just got.

I don't know if they plan to play Castle PG but also picking Dilly would have been another messy season and an unhappy Wemby in the making with an NBA back up PG (Tre) and two rookies, to play the point next year, including one who's not really one and the second who ca'nt defend.

If I had to choose one to have a bigger impact right away and a bigger probability of sticking in the league, it would be Dilly, tbh.

Dilly's offense and shot making give him a pretty high chance of sticking at least as a microwave type player off the bench. If Castle doesn't develop his shot, he would be out of the league in 4 years. I'm preparing myself to be patient, expecting the first couple of months of Castle's career to be uuuugly, tbh.

[LeBowen]

He doesn’t want disgruntled posters. Means less traffic. He said himself the trade was bad last night. Now does 180 this morning. lol

Wdym? This forum is way more active when something bad is happening. :lol

[CitizenDwayne]

He doesn’t want disgruntled posters. Means less traffic. He said himself the trade was bad last night. Now does 180 this morning. lol
Did he really, in the draft thread? Lol

[kobyz]

Ultimately Spurs dlntyqant to pay Dilley and Castle at the same time. I wonder if Salaun’s availability would have changed things

They could have trade up for Saluan with Detroit

[Knoxxx]

Did he really, in the draft thread? Lol

Almost 0% of us fans liked the trade in the moment, it is an unsavory thing to have happen on live TV. IIRC, they did not even interview Dilly after he shook hands w/Silver?

[Knoxxx]

If I had to choose one to have a bigger impact right away and a bigger probability of sticking in the league, it would be Dilly, tbh.

Dilly's offense and shot making give him a pretty high chance of sticking at least as a microwave type player off the bench. If Castle doesn't develop his shot, he would be out of the league in 4 years. I'm preparing myself to be patient, expecting the first couple of months of Castle's career to be uuuugly, tbh.

Come on man, you are just disagreeing with the big board on the two players. The real issue is rostering TWO developmental projects, that is basically tanking which everyone wants to hold their nose about. You can't tank and not tank at the same time.

[SpursGenius]

Did he really, in the draft thread? Lol
Yes. One of the threads. Either the draft or the front office sux thread.

[The Truth #6]

Should have drafted Carter and made a commitment to defense as far as my preference, yet oddly Brian did not consult me on that.

Overall, I think this is not really about Dillingham specifically but another moment to ponder what the FO is doing. Yes they think long-term. I don't think they should go all in on any of the typical douches. Yet there is a Grand Canyon-sized middle ground on how to improve the team. They say they want to win but sounds like a weird complicated situation like last year, like when Wemby keeps playing to win while Pop sits Sochan and Vassel.

Anyway, the 8 pick fell to us perfectly and there were ready role players ready to go. But they blinked.

On one hand yes it can be seen as a smart move looking long-term, but it's just more pressure or expectations, so to speak, for them actually to make some sort of move at some point.

[Extra Stout]

He doesn’t want disgruntled posters. Means less traffic. He said himself the trade was bad last night. Now does 180 this morning. lol
The Spurs don’t have a history of being eager to provide continued access to people who are highly critical of the front office. LJ Ellis is not just some random guy with an Internet forum. The flip side of the insightful (free) content that comes as a result of his access is a certain amount of spin.

[goliath]

Whether Minnesota will be good 7 years from now is probably going to be a moot point. I really doubt the spurs ever make those picks. It seems obvious they are accumulating picks to try to get a second star for Wemby. May not be this year or next but they are trying to get the draft capital to get someone eventually.

Im not saying it’s the right move or not. I would have preferred taking someone with the pick. We see a talent upgrade but I see their thought process.

As for Dilly, once he said in interviews that he didn’t always play hard on defense and didn’t always understand the schemes his team was running, I knew the Spurs dropped him off their board.

[The Truth #6]

Also, crazy idea, but you can pick Dill and trade him down the road.

[z0sa]

This is, again, subjective talk. I'll easily show you why: I believe that Carter, and not Dillingham, had the most potential to increase our wins at #8 (I seriously do, btw). Both of our predictions are equally subjective and opinion-based.



My point was clear; to the question raised of whether Dilly would've significantly helped the team next season, you said he "objectively" would add many wins, which is anything but objective. Dilly remains a prospect that seems better suited for the bench than starter material. While the Spurs no doubt could use bench power, I disagree that he would've won us many games, and wasn't high on him pre-draft.

I'm arguing your weight on Dilly is subjective. Please don't make me explain this any further, I'm tired of the word "subjective" already, lol.

I mean, you're right in a technical sense, I won't deny it. But it's taking the thought out of context (and a bit misquoted). I apologize, let me clarify:

Dillingham OR Carter would have added more wins to this team, over distant draft picks (trade using those picks withstanding). I feel this is objective in the context of a thread about lottery draftees which assumes they get playing time and a chance to show they can contribute. MAYBE a lot more wins is my subjective opinion about Dillingham, though I bet Carter would have added a substantial number, too. Considering the Spurs should simply win more games with this core together for a season, I don't think this is very speculative or "subjective" at all. I understand if you disagree, and I see your side of the equation as well. I just don't think it's far fetched or unobjective to assume a lottery pick -yours or mine- on one of the worst teams in the League won't add wins. That's the idea of the lottery, after all, giving bad teams a shot at the best of the upcoming talent pool. But if you really think Dillingham is just going to suck terribly and not have added any wins at all to a bottom 4 team, I understand and I'll consider myself "subjective", though I think most would strongly disagree.

[SpursGenius]

Should have drafted Carter and made a commitment to defense as far as my preference, yet oddly Brian did not consult me on that.

Overall, I think this is not really about Dillingham specifically but another moment to ponder what the FO is doing. Yes they think long-term. I don't think they should go all in on any of the typical douches. Yet there is a Grand Canyon-sized middle ground on how to improve the team. They say they want to win but sounds like a weird complicated situation like last year, like when Wemby keeps playing to win while Pop sits Sochan and Vassel.

Anyway, the 8 pick fell to us perfectly and there were ready role players ready to go. But they blinked.

On one hand yes it can be seen as a smart move looking long-term, but it's just more pressure or expectations, so to speak, for them actually to make some sort of move at some point.
Carter and castle in the backcourt is shut down defense with great ball handling. Carter already shoots close to 40 percent 3 and can create off dribble with 42 inch vertical. Castle has a great shot as shown in combine and ft shooting. The three will come. I would have used Vassell as a 6th man or even moved him to three with Wemby Sochan manning up front D. That is a great defensive team with scoring upside as pups develop. Patfo has no vision. Plain and simple.

[Knoxxx]

Should have drafted Carter and made a commitment to defense as far as my preference, yet oddly Brian did not consult me on that.

Overall, I think this is not really about Dillingham specifically but another moment to ponder what the FO is doing. Yes they think long-term. I don't think they should go all in on any of the typical douches. Yet there is a Grand Canyon-sized middle ground on how to improve the team. They say they want to win but sounds like a weird complicated situation like last year, like when Wemby keeps playing to win while Pop sits Sochan and Vassel.

Anyway, the 8 pick fell to us perfectly and there were ready role players ready to go. But they blinked.

On one hand yes it can be seen as a smart move looking long-term, but it's just more pressure or expectations, so to speak, for them actually to make some sort of move at some point.

They were going to possibly crowd out a veteran with Dilly, from a few aspects like playing time, salary cap, who knows what. Not excuses I like to hear, but probably more pertinent than I want them to be also.

[timvp]

Looks like Tim mvp did a 180 after he said trade was bad yesterday. It was a bad trade. No two ways about it. Needed that swap to be another pick by itself to make it palatable. Ie 1:2. Not 1:1. Horrible trade.


He doesn’t want disgruntled posters. Means less traffic. He said himself the trade was bad last night. Now does 180 this morning. lol

Link? I wasn't allowed to post during the draft and I didn't post after the draft.

Homeboy seeing ghosts :lol

[BatManu20]

Hoping for the best tbh. If we can use the pick and pick swap as per of a trade package for a star player, I’ll be okay with it. If we actually plan on using it to draft somebody 7 years from now, it becomes a lot more questionable.

Still hope Dilly goes off on us though whenever we play them tbh. :lol

[DAF86]

Come on man, you are just disagreeing with the big board on the two players. The real issue is rostering TWO developmental projects, that is basically tanking which everyone wants to hold their nose about. You can't tank and not tank at the same time.

WE WILL SEE.

[Knoxxx]

I mean, you're right in a technical sense, I won't deny it. But it's taking the thought out of context (and a bit misquoted). I apologize, let me clarify:

Dillingham OR Carter would have added more wins to this team, over distant draft picks (trade using those picks withstanding). I feel this is objective in the context of a thread about lottery draftees which assumes they get playing time and a chance to show they can contribute. MAYBE a lot more wins is my subjective opinion about Dillingham, though I bet Carter would have added a substantial number, too. Considering the Spurs should simply win more games with this core together for a season, I don't think this is very speculative or "subjective" at all. I understand if you disagree, and I see your side of the equation as well. I just don't think it's far fetched or unobjective to assume a lottery pick -yours or mine- on one of the worst teams in the League won't add wins. That's the idea of the lottery, after all, giving bad teams a shot at the best of the upcoming talent pool. But if you really think Dillingham is just going to suck terribly and not have added any wins at all to a bottom 4 team, I understand and I'll consider myself "subjective", though I think most would strongly disagree.

Not even the top 1-2 picks in this draft are expected to add wins to the teams that drafted them, possibly the opposite. Wemby didn't even add any wins. This team building thing takes time, and as we have seen the draft picks are a total crap shoot. We have been burnt by numerous 1st round draft picks.

You can easily argue for or against keeping or trading away a draft pick for a veteran. A draft pick is like a coin flip or playing roulette, clearly the Spurs are wanting to enhance the veteran core which is badly needed. How many more 19 and 20 year old players do we really want to roster at a time?

[z0sa]

Not even the top 1-2 picks in this draft are expected to add wins to the teams that drafted them, possibly the opposite. Wemby didn't even add any wins. This team building thing takes time, and as we have seen the draft picks are a total crap shoot. We have been burnt by numerous 1st round draft picks.

You can easily argue for or against keeping or trading away a draft pick for a veteran. A draft pick is like a coin flip or playing roulette, clearly the Spurs are wanting to enhance the veteran core which is badly needed. How many more 19 and 20 year old players do we really want to roster at a time?

Our team certainly underachieved with Wemby on the roster - no question there. I wouldn't blame Wemby, though, for last season's immense disappointment.

I'd have taken a trade which included a veteran readily at #8. If a trade does occur which includes these pick(s), I already reserved right to change my mind :lol I'm hoping I will. That said, this is why I attached Dillingham's name as value to the pick. This draft is a bigger crap shoot than most, and he's got every chance to be as impactful on wins as someone like Risacher or Sarr due to the uncertainty of this draft class. We won't really know now, at least using the metric of wins, since he joined a 56 win club, unless he either vastly overachieves or the Wolves underachieve, as well.

That said, I'm in your camp - as long as we make a trade. If we're really gameplanning around draft day 2031, something's seriously amiss in the front office - at least, from a fan perspective where winning is all that counts. If it's the 2031 draft we want projects in, we've put the cart before the horse and losing while making money before winning.

In reality, I think the ownership did this as a cost saving move and we won't make any big trade. In that case, I'd have taken anybody - Dillingham, Carter, fucking Topic - over sitting on our hands so they're some millions more asset-rich. But that's the reality, probably. Also, one final addendum, despite the shitty season last year, I think with Wemby, we will always be on the cusp of greatness with the right roster moves so guys like Dillingham would have their floor raised playing with him and potentially be key parts where they weren't on other teams. It is what it is, we'll take that veteran anytime :)

[Proxy]

if they become trade assets, cool. if they become extra first round picks during wemby's prime when the team is elite, cool. suddenly obsessing over an 8th round pick in the worst draft of all time is such a spursfan move. What, was there a player that was going to make the team suddenly a title contender?? Turned a 'peanuts' pick into an unprotected

[CitizenDwayne]

I feel like a lot of people calling Rob a scrub haven't even seen the guy play. He came off the bench and was not a primary option for Calipari, so it's not like his college stats are padded. He's not the project pick some think, he'll contribute early and up to (and well beyond) 2030. It's fair to be concerned about his size but guys with his offensive skill don't grow on trees. Always helps to have a 6th man who can Light it up

[Knoxxx]

Our team certainly underachieved with Wemby on the roster - no question there. I wouldn't blame Wemby, though, for last season's immense disappointment.

I'd have taken a trade which included a veteran readily at #8. If a trade does occur which includes these pick(s), I already reserved right to change my mind :lol I'm hoping I will. That said, this is why I attached Dillingham's name as value to the pick. This draft is a bigger crap shoot than most, and he's got every chance to be as impactful on wins as someone like Risacher or Sarr due to the uncertainty of this draft class. We won't really know now, at least using the metric of wins, since he joined a 56 win club, unless he either vastly overachieves or the Wolves underachieve, as well.

That said, I'm in your camp - as long as we make a trade. If we're really gameplanning around draft day 2031, something's seriously amiss in the front office - at least, from a fan perspective where winning is all that counts. If it's the 2031 draft we want projects in, we've put the cart before the horse and losing while making money before winning.

In reality, I think the ownership did this as a cost saving move and we won't make any big trade. In that case, I'd have taken anybody - Dillingham, Carter, fucking Topic - over sitting on our hands so they're some millions more asset-rich. But that's the reality, probably. Also, one final addendum, despite the shitty season last year, I think with Wemby, we will always be on the cusp of greatness with the right roster moves so guys like Dillingham would have their floor raised playing with him and potentially be key parts where they weren't on other teams. It is what it is, we'll take that veteran anytime :)

Status quo and largely rolling out the same crummy team feels crummy, that's for sure. There are some differences though, that indicate we will clearly be better even with status quo. Once Wemby found his footing and moved to center, we became a different team. We could basically play any ragtag group (OK maybe Mamu is better than that) with Wemby and all of the sudden we were beating playoff teams down the stretch of the season and the blowouts losses were few and far between. These were teams that were playing for playoff position, not tanking, either.

I probably am a little less oriented towards the team is light years from being a playoff team as most tend to think. I don't see us as a 22-win team at the end of last season. That same team, maybe it wins 30 games, maybe even more.

All we need is players that are not shooting below 30% from 3 and playing defense, and we probably are capable of shooting right to being a .500 team. Give us 35% 3 PT shooting with defense, we are possible a top 4-6 team in the West.

[Knoxxx]

if they become trade assets, cool. if they become extra first round picks during wemby's prime when the team is elite, cool. suddenly obsessing over an 8th round pick in the worst draft of all time is such a spursfan move. What, was there a player that was going to make the team suddenly a title contender?? Turned a 'peanuts' pick into an unprotected

In fairness, most any team's fans would have been pissed to draft a potentially dynamic player at 8 and trade them for a pick 7 years away. We Spurs fans, like normal fans of other teams, like our shiny objects now, not in 7 years!

[Knoxxx]

I feel like a lot of people calling Rob a scrub haven't even seen the guy play. He came off the bench and was not a primary option for Calipari, so it's not like his college stats are padded. He's not the project pick some think, he'll contribute early and up to (and well beyond) 2030. It's fair to be concerned about his size but guys with his offensive skill don't grow on trees. Always helps to have a 6th man who can Light it up

You know, I watch highlights and have to remind myself, these are highlights. I don't spend much time watching lowlights, but to act like Dilly had none, well that is the downside or unknown that is the crux of why we did not keep him.

Anyone looks awesome, in their highlights. That is why they are called highlights.

[timvp]

Few more thoughts:

-Yeah, pointing to the Dilly trade as proof that the Spurs are tanking doesn't make sense. The easiest/best way to tank is to rely on rookies.

-The Spurs got, what, like 70% of the value for the No. 8 pick that the Celtics gave up to acquire Jrue Holiday. That's pretty damn impressive if you think about it from that point of view. It looks underwhelming if you compare it to the Bridges trade but the Spurs basically got a package that you'd expect to get for trading a really good starter. Hell, they got more for Dilly than they got for Derrick White.

-I really don't care about the 2031 aspect. As I wrote, I think it's more of a positive than anything. Minnesota's current core will mostly be aged out, they don't have much draft capital to build back up and their ownership situation will probably still be in litigation. When the Spurs go star-hunting, it'll be an attractive piece. When a team trades a star for 3/4/5 unprotected first round picks, the years those picks will convey typically isn't a main topic of conversation. Getting picks from various sources (Spurs, Hawks, Timberwolves, for example) would be more attractive than just getting picks from one source -- especially if that source has Wembanyama.

-I'm still trying to figure out the Salaun situation. The ankle injury sounded like a smokescreen but it looks like Salaun actually did work out with the Hornets ( https://x.com/hornetsreddit/status/1806335439365693832 ). I thought the Hornets workout was one that he supposedly missed due to his Spurs ankle injury. I gotta leave so someone do this homework for me. Thanks, bye.

[MultiTroll]

Also, crazy idea, but you can pick Dill and trade him down the road.
Not crazy at all compared to the 2030-31 shit they pulled.

I also wonder what could have been acquired by dangling Dilly either
a. Right now before the season starts
or

b. If Dilly would have had a decent or ever great start, wonder what teams would have offered?
Of course if he had a great start, would have just kept. Or traded for an equally good wing.

Regardless, sure as hell would have been better then 2030-31 imo!

[z0sa]

Status quo and largely rolling out the same crummy team feels crummy, that's for sure. There are some differences though, that indicate we will clearly be better even with status quo. Once Wemby found his footing and moved to center, we became a different team. We could basically play any ragtag group (OK maybe Mamu is better than that) with Wemby and all of the sudden we were beating playoff teams down the stretch of the season and the blowouts losses were few and far between. These were teams that were playing for playoff position, not tanking, either.

I probably am a little less oriented towards the team is light years from being a playoff team as most tend to think. I don't see us as a 22-win team at the end of last season. That same team, maybe it wins 30 games, maybe even more.

All we need is players that are not shooting below 30% from 3 and playing defense, and we probably are capable of shooting right to being a .500 team. Give us 35% 3 PT shooting with defense, we are possible a top 4-6 team in the West.

I see us as being a middling playoff team at the max capacity for potential of this roster. Say Castle and Sochan learn to shoot, Tre is the backup at 1 and Branham the backup 2, with both being at the top of their games off the bench. Not good enough to win it all, competing for the playin and maybe even playoffs, but too good to tank without Wemby being injured. It seems like we're banking on 2025 draftees+expending some of these picks afterwards at some point (probably 2025 draft combined with 2025 trade deadline or 2026 off-season) to get over the top. It's not a terrible plan, but it feels like we're the next season and possibly 2 will be salary floor teams which grow less than expected and have less expectations in general, which IMHO is bad for development and for Wemby's loyalty/patience to the team. I'm speaking like the scarred Kawhi fan I once was of course on the Wemby stuff.

[CitizenDwayne]

You know, I watch highlights and have to remind myself, these are highlights. I don't spend much time watching lowlights, but to act like Dilly had none, well that is the downside or unknown that is the crux of why we did not keep him.

Anyone looks awesome, in their highlights. That is why they are called highlights.

I watched every game UK played this season, a handful in person.

Reed is overrated as a passer and defender imo. I was worried the Spurs might trade up to get him. But Rob had all the signs of a bench microwave and nah no thx, we'd prefer a 2031 pick

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently

[ducks]

Link? I wasn't allowed to post during the draft and I didn't post after the draft.

Homeboy seeing ghosts :lol

Pussy whipped ?

[jeebus]

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently
Wait...you seriously believe them trading the 8th pick is them doubling down on last season's team? :lmao

[TekXX]

The Spurs don’t have a history of being eager to provide continued access to people who are highly critical of the front office. LJ Ellis is not just some random guy with an Internet forum. The flip side of the insightful (free) content that comes as a result of his access is a certain amount of spin.

This makes more sense. Disgruntled posters would mean more traffic so sucking up to Pop's front office seems accurate.

[Pauleta14]

-I'm still trying to figure out the Salaun situation. The ankle injury sounded like a smokescreen but it looks like Salaun actually did work out with the Hornets ( https://x.com/hornetsreddit/status/1806335439365693832 ). I thought the Hornets workout was one that he supposedly missed due to his Spurs ankle injury. I gotta leave so someone do this homework for me. Thanks, bye.

He looked extatic when he got picked as opposed to Dilly who's reaction was more "controled".

Maybe he was neve a target but just some reverse psychology from PATFO/Wemby to help him get picked as early as possible

[SOMA Spur]

After following these prospects for the past year, I had my favorites, but the real mystery was who in fact did the Spurs like? Castle made sense and he'll be a stud. At 8 I was cool with anyone. Picking Dilly was a shock and for about 60 seconds I was proud of PATFO for not overthinking things and picking an exciting fan favorite that might work with Castle. But of course Dilly was never in the cards, I had crossed him off my list for a while now in favor of Carter (But they didn't really love him either, ugh).

Turns out they didn't love anyone left on the board, so they punted. Where's the fucking fun in that! What a let down, and what a waste of time for me researching these mid lottery prospects. But I'll reserve my meltdown until after the draft is officially over, as well as the next couple of days with Graham's trade-able contract, etc. A lot could happen in the next day, or nothing at all, which is what I expect.

Couple thoughts as I wait for the second round to start:

Was Saluan their actual target at 8? If so, that Insta post by Tony with Tidjane in the building looks awfully dumb. I just thought that was a smoke screen my his frenchman buddy, to boost his stock. But maybe not, and it turned out to be a blunder as Charlotte hopped us to snag him at 6. IDK.

Also the Lakers snagging Knecht is disgusting. All my Laker fan neighbors are thrilled. One more guy I would have loved in the Silver and Black.

[z0sa]

I watched every game UK played this season, a handful in person.

Reed is overrated as a passer and defender imo. I was worried the Spurs might trade up to get him. But Rob had all the signs of a bench microwave and nah no thx, we'd prefer a 2031 pick

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently

It should be assembling picks for a major trade. If it's not, who TF knows what they are thinking tbh because I'm with you on not wanting to watch this same team miss Wemby for oops, lobs and just in general all next season. Especially if Castle doesn't even get much playing time with Wemby because suddenly Tre's starting spot is guaranteed or we're tanking or whatever.

[Excessive Egotist]

Tiny footnote to Dillingham deal: I'd like to see Spurs take on Josh Minott in the deal. Doesn't impact San Antonio's books, but it saves Minnesota a bunch of tax.

[SpurSpike]

I was happy with the Castle pick but not surprised. When we drafted Dilly though I was pretty excited because I knew he was kind of a long shot but his style of play is so fun to watch. I cannot express how disappointed I was when I heard he was traded and then I looked up what it was for and got even more pissed. It really did ruin the draft for me... Hope Castle's play this season can make me forget about this gigantic fumble.

[Excessive Egotist]

Tiny footnote to Dillingham deal: I'd like to see Spurs take on Josh Minott in the deal. Doesn't impact San Antonio's books, but it saves Minnesota a bunch of tax.

And/or Leonard Miller. I just expect Minnesota would be more inclined to keep Miller.

[Excessive Egotist]

Eye of the beholder draft. I was unhappy with the Dillingham pick and delighted to learn of the trade and even happier for the return.

[T Park]

I was happy with the Castle pick but not surprised. When we drafted Dilly though I was pretty excited because I knew he was kind of a long shot but his style of play is so fun to watch. I cannot express how disappointed I was when I heard he was traded and then I looked up what it was for and got even more pissed. It really did ruin the draft for me... Hope Castle's play this season can make me forget about this gigantic fumble.

lol

yeah I hope the better player playing well makes me forget about trading the lesser player!

[Ice009]

lol

yeah I hope the better player playing well makes me forget about trading the lesser player!

lol, logic is out the window.

[Bruno]

To me, there are two different aspect when evaluating a trade: is the trade fair and is it good ?

The fair bit is about receiving equal value. When you consider everything, I think it's a quite fair trade. Wolves clearly didn't overpay to get #8 but Spurs get something good in return.

The good part is about helping the team in its goal. As a standalone this trade is really bad. It accomplishes the exact opposite of what Spurs should do. They should speed up the rebuilding process with Wembanyama's greatness and this trade slows it down. But there is a but. This trade give Spurs a very nice trade asset that might allow them to speed up even more the rebuilding process than the draft pick would have done.

At the end, it's all about what Spurs will do with that 2031 unprotected first round pick.

[DPG21920]

To me, there are two different aspect when evaluating a trade: is the trade fair and is it good ?

The fair bit is about receiving equal value. When you consider everything, I think it's a quite fair trade. Wolves clearly didn't overpay to get #8 but Spurs get something good in return.

The good part is about helping the team in its goal. As a standalone this trade is really bad. It accomplishes the exact opposite of what Spurs should do. They should speed up the rebuilding process with Wembanyama's greatness and this trade slows it down. But there is a but. This trade give Spurs a very nice trade asset that might allow them to speed up even more the rebuilding process than the draft pick would have done.

At the end, it's all about what Spurs will do with that 2031 unprotected first round pick.

Agree. It’s nuanced. You can evaluate any singular part and that’s fair, but you cannot judge it as a whole until you see the bigger picture and what they do with it. Theres so much nuance and it’s just really hard to stop and parse through all of it.


But a few facts:

Fact of the matter is Spurs need talent clearly and they need shooting and defense and they had 2 lottery picks and they didnt address a lot of that with them.

It COMPLETELY fair to question what Spurs did here and the onus is on them to show they have a plan and to improve the team.

Because only relying basically on internal improvement is a mistake and this is from someone who thinks A LOT of what will happen is from internal improvement and is completely fine with the FO being patient and building smartly.

But that doesnt mean its not fair to have some questions about trading the 8th pick for way future firsts vs using pick 8 to improve the team for sure (either adding a player or trading it for a player or trading back and getting a pick still in this draft with some extra value thrown in)

The trade can work out awesome, but you also have to look at the other side and its fair to have some concerns/questions as long as you are also reasonable about taking a bigger picture view too.

And theres a nuance to this conversation too. It’s not just Sa did bad/good or hated this draft/loved it etc…

Theres so many moving parts. Maybe SA loved Salaun and when he was gone that’s why they traded out because they have a plan at point guard (for better or worse) and dont want small non defensive point guard archetypes?

Maybe they loved Carter, but didn’t want two guards with questionable shooting and once Castle was assured, they had the guy they valued most and didn’t want to add too many non shooters etc…

They may have done this deal because they know theres a chance to trade for someone in a year or two that they already have targeted and only said they will trade 8 or whatever IF they get unprotected picks

If MIN offered protections then SA maybe keeps Dilly or whomever.

Theres so much to it is the point and it’s not linear.

But Spurs need to improve and have a lot of guys who should be replaced or at a minimum forced to compete for staying on this team. Right now, SA didnt do anything but free agency and trades should shed some light on the plan and make it make more sense.

If they have a FA/Trade lined up for a reasonably priced shooting point guard then it makes way more sense etc…just have to see.

But for me personally I am pretty surprised at the deal and I am a little less confident in the FO than I was before the draft. Not mad or calling for heads; but Im anxious more than before because they have to execute and it’s a big risk trading pick 8 in the fashion they did.

1 100% agree with Chinook though that if SA turns around only to use 3-4 firsts for a terrible defensive small point guard like Trae or Garland I will not like it at all. I mean, why if you are ok with terrible defensive high upside shooting point guards would you not just keep Dilly as a much lower risk lower cost similar archetype then?

[wildbill2u]

I think it is easier to teach a smart quick undersized player to defend that it is to teach a large guy to shoot 3s. I think this may just be a ploy by the Spurs to avoid adding two lottery pick payrolls to the roster. Just a thought.

On the other hand this may be a CIA Pop plan to have some picks available to deal with acquiring Bronny James from the Lakers in 2030 or 2031.

[spurs10]

Well as far as the trade, I hope we were just collecting assets for a trade for a veteran. It's hard to believe they won't be going all out to win some games with Wemby playing so well. I don't think the draft was strong enough for the Spurs to go all in on it, especially with a defensive liability.

I've been more fixated on Castle who does seems to be the improvement on defense we need. I don't think his job at UConn was being a spot up 3 pt shooter, but read he was the top scorer in the Final Four for them nonetheless. Get him in the gym and start working on that. That being said I can't see him on the floor with Tre and Sochan, so let's see what FAs or trades they are looking at.

It's always the big picture, and that isn't clear until we see who they are going after. We now have the money to do some bidding.

[Eaglenole2002]

I’m sure this has been mentioned a bunch times on this site, but I’d love to know how that Castle-Carter workout truly went.

[Mr. Peabody]

I think it is easier to teach a smart quick undersized player to defend that it is to teach a large guy to shoot 3s. I think this may just be a ploy by the Spurs to avoid adding two lottery pick payrolls to the roster. Just a thought.

On the other hand this may be a CIA Pop plan to have some picks available to deal with acquiring Bronny James from the Lakers in 2030 or 2031.

His size limits how effective of a defender he can be. Look at the All-Defense teams. There is no one close to Dilly’s size on either team.

[Uriel]

Few more thoughts:

-Yeah, pointing to the Dilly trade as proof that the Spurs are tanking doesn't make sense. The easiest/best way to tank is to rely on rookies.

-The Spurs got, what, like 70% of the value for the No. 8 pick that the Celtics gave up to acquire Jrue Holiday. That's pretty damn impressive if you think about it from that point of view. It looks underwhelming if you compare it to the Bridges trade but the Spurs basically got a package that you'd expect to get for trading a really good starter. Hell, they got more for Dilly than they got for Derrick White.

-I really don't care about the 2031 aspect. As I wrote, I think it's more of a positive than anything. Minnesota's current core will mostly be aged out, they don't have much draft capital to build back up and their ownership situation will probably still be in litigation. When the Spurs go star-hunting, it'll be an attractive piece. When a team trades a star for 3/4/5 unprotected first round picks, the years those picks will convey typically isn't a main topic of conversation. Getting picks from various sources (Spurs, Hawks, Timberwolves, for example) would be more attractive than just getting picks from one source -- especially if that source has Wembanyama.

-I'm still trying to figure out the Salaun situation. The ankle injury sounded like a smokescreen but it looks like Salaun actually did work out with the Hornets ( https://x.com/hornetsreddit/status/1806335439365693832 ). I thought the Hornets workout was one that he supposedly missed due to his Spurs ankle injury. I gotta leave so someone do this homework for me. Thanks, bye.
What about the Sheppard vs Castle debate? Can you confirm that the Spurs would’ve picked Sheppard if both had been on the board, as you reported in your final big board?

[Spurs Homer]

Maybe I was attached because I called Dilly at 8 as the best possible scenario for us. It's of course, certainly possible FO and I know others here didn't agree with that. I do believe, as we stand right now with no 2024 NBA draftees having played a minute of action, that Dillingham was our best pick at 8 and could have aided us in rebuilding - at least as far as winning games. We could then have traded him for better than unprotected firsts, or at least a similar haul. The main difference being our win/loss tallies and our financials. Then again, if Dilly ends up being impossible to play due to his defensive struggles, perhaps we win the evening after all. Or, the 30/31 picks are key in a trade. It's not impossible, but it's not like picking Dillingham could have been construed as a huge mistake from anything other than the financial side if he didn't pan out. Hence why I see this as cost cutting at face.


you are not the only one - i also had dilly as the best pick/best fit next to wemby -

and it makes zero sense to draft him for a rival who almost went to the finals and did not even get the 24 or 27th or whichever pick minnesota had...

and 7-8 years before you receive anything?

fuck these clowns

[Ice009]

you are not the only one - i also had dilly as the best pick/best fit next to wemby -

and it makes zero sense to draft him for a rival who almost went to the finals and did not even get the 24 or 27th or whichever pick minnesota had...

and 7-8 years before you receive anything?

fuck these clowns

Yeah, I thought the Spurs should have also pushed for Minnesota's pick in this draft, but was there anyone they liked enough to draft at 27 or whatever pick Minnesota had?

[poopbox]

Should have drafted Carter and made a commitment to defense as far as my preference, yet oddly Brian did not consult me on that.

Overall, I think this is not really about Dillingham specifically but another moment to ponder what the FO is doing. Yes they think long-term. I don't think they should go all in on any of the typical douches. Yet there is a Grand Canyon-sized middle ground on how to improve the team. They say they want to win but sounds like a weird complicated situation like last year, like when Wemby keeps playing to win while Pop sits Sochan and Vassel.

Anyway, the 8 pick fell to us perfectly and there were ready role players ready to go. But they blinked.

On one hand yes it can be seen as a smart move looking long-term, but it's just more pressure or expectations, so to speak, for them actually to make some sort of move at some point.

The trading the pick is not very much about Dillingham the player. I liked him and wanted him, because it should help keep the utter dumpster fire shitjuice that Branhim and Wessley are off the court. The problem with trading the pick is that once you identify that you have a franchise player, and Victor definitely is, you start trying to put talent around him. The Spurs had an opportunity to add some talent around Victor with the 8th pick and they decided instead to just throw that pick in a box they can't open for 6 and 7 years, and thus the only way it ever has any value in the short term is if they can trade it to someone else. It's like the Spurs are doing 2 extra steps to add talent to a young roster...when they could have just done one step and drafted somebody with the pick.

And where are people getting this "they think long term" shit from? What move are we benefitting from right now that they made in 2018? 2019? 2017? 2020? I find it weird people are convincing themselves that the Spurs have a long term plan where you can't look at anything they have done in the past 6 years that was to the benefit of the team, other than tanking and drafting Victor, which had way more to do with luck than any actual skill.

[Ice009]

Look, maybe they just don't want to get torched on the defensive end anymore. I was sick of this 4 or 5 years ago when Bryn Forbes was starting and I stopped watching for a bit due to that. I always loved defense first, so I am hoping the front office has now come around to that and don't want to have defensive sieves out there anymore. I think it's looking that way, but again, we'll see with what moves they make going forward. I hope defense is a big focus moving forward.

As good as Dillingham might be on offense, he could get lit up on the regular defensively. I felt really bad for him, but I'll just say good luck to him and hope he's happy to be going to a contending team instead. Whether he pans out or not, we'll see.

[rjv]

To me, there are two different aspect when evaluating a trade: is the trade fair and is it good ?

The fair bit is about receiving equal value. When you consider everything, I think it's a quite fair trade. Wolves clearly didn't overpay to get #8 but Spurs get something good in return.

The good part is about helping the team in its goal. As a standalone this trade is really bad. It accomplishes the exact opposite of what Spurs should do. They should speed up the rebuilding process with Wembanyama's greatness and this trade slows it down. But there is a but. This trade give Spurs a very nice trade asset that might allow them to speed up even more the rebuilding process than the draft pick would have done.

At the end, it's all about what Spurs will do with that 2031 unprotected first round pick.

this is the sort of take that one makes when they take the time to refrain from an overreaction. the trade can still turn out bad, but there is no way to know that at this moment.

[scott]

If scientists could find a way to convert sniffs and cope into energy, the planet would be flush with the benefits of unlimited, clean power.

[thOOdee]

I watched every game UK played this season, a handful in person.

Reed is overrated as a passer and defender imo. I was worried the Spurs might trade up to get him. But Rob had all the signs of a bench microwave and nah no thx, we'd prefer a 2031 pick

Obviously Dilly has lowlights but this whole last season for SA was a lowlight and this feels like doubling down on that awful core we've had the misfortune of watching recently


I think this is where some spurs fans need to take a step back and really let sink in what a future with dilly would have been.

If you analyze taking dilly in the most positive light, I think there would be no question the spurs would improve, but by how much and at what cost?

If your the spurs you don't take dilly without major plans for him (shown by how much twolves valued him). & for dillly to be a microwave off the bench would require the ball in his hands a good chunk of the time. I don't think there would be no way around that. And even if that leads to a net positive and even many trips to the playoffs, who hear honestly feels dilly would be the xfactor when facing a team built like the celtics leading to multi championship runs. The need for versatile players in all position has never been greater and dilly just wouldn't fit that bill. Finding a similar player w the picks in the mold of derick white is not unrealistic and would provide this team a much better benefit in the long run.

[lefty20]

I don't get the whole "Spurs have never traded for a Star before, therefore they will never do it" way of thinking.

Well the Spurs have never had a stockpile of Picks like they do rn. Let the FO cook. When the right player becomes available, we're gonna be thankful for having a stocked war-chest.

[CitizenDwayne]

I think this is where some spurs fans need to take a step back and really let sink in what a future with dilly would have been.

If you analyze taking dilly in the most positive light, I think there would be no question the spurs would improve, but by how much and at what cost?

If your the spurs you don't take dilly without major plans for him (shown by how much twolves valued him). & for dillly to be a microwave off the bench would require the ball in his hands a good chunk of the time. I don't think there would be no way around that. And even if that leads to a net positive and even many trips to the playoffs, who hear honestly feels dilly would be the xfactor when facing a team built like the celtics leading to multi championship runs. The need for versatile players in all position has never been greater and dilly just wouldn't fit that bill. Finding a similar player w the picks in the mold of derick white is not unrealistic and would provide this team a much better benefit in the long run.
How much they valued him? Yeah, loved him so much they’d give up picks in the 2030s, damn, real sacrifice on their end.

[thOOdee]

How much they valued him? Yeah, loved him so much they’d give up picks in the 2030s, damn, real sacrifice on their end.

whether you think the twolves got a steal is irrelevant. I dont think you can argue the wolves aren’t planning to weave dilly into their offense in hopes of getting them further into the playoffs.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1806458837890720149

[ace3g]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1806459463995707766

[DPG21920]

Not exactly an encouraging explanation lol - I was personally hoping to hear more about how it relates to building a team now that is looking forward to getting back to playoffs etc..

Hearing it sort of was just about value without really a thought about how it ties into a broader plan kind of makes me nervous.

[Mr. Body]

Not exactly an encouraging explanation lol - I was personally hoping to hear more about how it relates to building a team now that is looking forward to getting back to playoffs etc..

Hearing it sort of was just about value without really a thought about how it ties into a broader plan kind of makes me nervous.

I really think the idea that they got the MIN picks to accumulate to some kind of star trade is pretty optimistic within the fanbase and unlikely in practice. They may see a trade down the line, but really they got the pick and swap in order to have the pick and swap. That's it.

[spurraider21]

i think its as simple as them being fixated on Salaun (ugh) and then panicking

salaun would be a perfect pick because he gives them an out. oh, we know he's raw and a project, so we arent expecting him to be good until 4 years later, give it some time, etc...

[DPG21920]

If the FO mindset, given how bad the team is and how many holes they have, is simply trading away lottery picks because they got an offer that was “fair value” that would be depressing.

I would have liked to hear that it was made with purpose of building this current team out the right way and part of an overall strategy etc….because hearing “well, it was fair value so we did it” is just scary.

[Mugen]

To the surprise of few people, trading away #8 was not part of any other big plans they had for this summer or some 4D move :lol

They zeroed in on a guy (Saluan) and panic traded when he was picked ahead of them.

For anybody thinking there is a big splash coming in the next few months, I'm sorry in advance. They're running it back :lol

[offset formation]

For me, the most consequential part of the deal was the fact that they traded out of #8 at all. It means that the front office had Dillingham, Buzelis, Williams, Carter, Knecht, Topić, etc, for the taking, and they decided that none of them were worth a roster spot.

It means all those reports about one or the other having positive workouts and the Spurs being interested were smokescreens and that the front office didn’t like any of them enough to use a draft pick on them.

If even 1 of those guys turns into an all-star then the FO should rightly be roasted. As it is we have the abominable picks in our recent rear view starting to loom large with the biggest of those cone by missing out on Sengun, drafting Primo.

[benefactor]

To the surprise of few people, trading away #8 was not part of any other big plans they had for this summer or some 4D move :lol

They zeroed in on a guy (Saluan) and panic traded when he was picked ahead of them.

For anybody thinking there is a big splash coming in the next few months, I'm sorry in advance. They're running it back :lol
And I get to celebrate by prepping for colonoscopy tomorrow. Oh the irony:lol

[Mr. Body]

I doubt they panicked with Salaun. They just didn't think anyone was good enough to take and either called around or Minnesota called them and, boom, the pick was gone. They probably had that sort of thing set up beforehand. They'd already suggested moving the pick the day before.

[TD 21]

Here's one thought: This entire draft was predictably thrown in the garbage (:lmao at this of all teams coming away with zero shooting and athleticism) by these clowns, who never face accountability for their arrogance and failures.

[Mr. Body]

It probably feels better if they panicked and worse if that was their actual strategy. I think it was just their strategy.

[Ice009]

What a terrible, terrible answer. I thought there was a plan, but that answer sounds like there is no plan at all. What a waste.

[Leetonidas]

:lol the copium in this thread

Get ready for another season of terrible basketball as we retain virtually the same roster while we waste a year of rookie scale Victor. I guess it'll be worth it if we land a top 5 pick but man the way the draft shaped out and the answers the FO is giving are fucking depressing and seriously don't inspire confidence. At least Victor will be fun to watch

[scott]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1806458837890720149

These dumb fucks really believe they got good value??

"We got an unprotected FRP 7 years from now? That pick is so far off, it could end up in the Top 10! We only have to give up a Top 10 pick to get it? Sign me up!"

[Eaglenole2002]

I doubt they panicked with Salaun. They just didn't think anyone was good enough to take and either called around or Minnesota called them and, boom, the pick was gone. They probably had that sort of thing set up beforehand. They'd already suggested moving the pick the day before.
Zach Lowe said he heard the deal was worked out prior to the draft.

[DesignatedT]

It's another valuable trade chip. I think they realize they will have to make a big trade at some point and they are stockpiling the assets to do so. The Knicks just sent the Nets 5 first round picks.

Doesn't mean a trade is currently in the works but they are hoarding the assets so when the right one presents itself they have the best package.

Seems pretty simple to me. Pair that with the fact that they already have a ton of guys under 21 on this roster they probably didn't feel the need to add another one who they aren't extremely high on.

[RC_Drunkford]

I mean does anybody here think Barlow will be a better player than Buzelis or Cody Williams? That tells you all you need to know about PATFO :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1806458837890720149


Clueless fucking clowns.

[heyheymymy]

Start scouting your local high school games

Start sleeping with women in France. Those godly basketball genes should be draft eligible by the time PATFO are done punting this pick

[Splits]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1806458837890720149

What. A. Fucking. Clown.

why is he rubbing his legs so much?

[djohn2oo8]

I doubt they panicked with Salaun. They just didn't think anyone was good enough to take and either called around or Minnesota called them and, boom, the pick was gone. They probably had that sort of thing set up beforehand. They'd already suggested moving the pick the day before.
So they only had 1 or 2 players in the whole draft they thought were good enough and everybody else wasn’t?

[djohn2oo8]

What. A. Fucking. Clown.

why is he rubbing his legs so much?
Nervous vibes :lol

[Mr. Body]

So they only had 1 or 2 players in the whole draft they thought were good enough and everybody else wasn’t?

They valued the future pick and swap over who was available plus having to pay them, yes.

[benefactor]

Start sleeping with women in France. Those godly basketball genes should be draft eligible by the time PATFO are done punting this pick
:lol

[Splits]

Start sleeping with women in France. Those godly basketball genes should be draft eligible by the time PATFO are done punting this pick

solid advice. I'm living in Switzerland on the French border, gonna start spreading the seed so we get that 2031 pick nailed

[djohn2oo8]

They valued the future pick and swap over who was available plus having to pay them, yes.
There was plenty of talent available

[Splits]

There was plenty of talent available

Bend over. I'll show you talent.

[benefactor]

There was plenty of talent available
Why in the world would you take a chance on that when you can trade the picks for the greatest 11 year old player in the history of basketball that you still might not get because the team holding that pick will still be good?

[TrainOfThought5]

Everybody is Rueing the Dilly trade, but I’m really hating the fact we didn’t get Cody Williams or Carter.

[heyheymymy]

If there'a blockbuster trade ill eat crow but we all know that ain't happening.

crow would be a nice change of pace from all the lemons you've been eating

https://healthyfamilyproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Lemons-background.jpg

[benefactor]

Everybody is Rueing the Dilly trade, but I’m really hating the fact we didn’t get Cody Williams or Carter.
Pop did this on purpose so he would be dead when it came to pass and wouldn't have to listen to himself getting blamed for it.

[Splits]

can we just all agree that a black shouldn't be a GM in the NBA?

[TeKu]

What. A. Fucking. Clown.

why is he rubbing his legs so much?

It's called leg cleansing, indicates he is stressed or being deceptive.

[Splits]

It's called leg cleansing, indicates he is stressed or being deceptive.

Sweaty palms for being an amateur moron is more like it.

[benefactor]

can we just all agree that a black shouldn't be a GM in the NBA?
Black quarterback theory?

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oKc7Ebd9og

[heyheymymy]

There was plenty of talent available

Correct, Matas and Topic's sisters were still in the green room

[Splits]

Black quarterback theory?

BWrong is the Warren Moon of our time

[Splits]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oKc7Ebd9og

https://needtoknow.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/featured-pic-e1663230465505.jpg

[Mr. Body]

Can you stop the racist shit? Jesus Christ

[heyheymymy]

Fuck you Splits

It ain't right

[Splits]

Can you stop the religious shit? Allah akbar.