Be patient for one more season

[DAF86]

Unless we trade for a young star player like a Cade Cunningham or a Lauri Markkanen (no Trae Young, nor Garland, please), the best the Spurs can do is just sit tight, develop internal growth and get a top pick in the supossedly stacked upcoming draft.

I've seen a lot of people, like my man Chinook, asking for the Spurs to get Paul George or Jimmy Butler, they are both fucking 34 years old, what benefit can we possibly get from them? Miss out on a top pick in this upcoming draft for the chance to be a 2nd round exit in the playoffs for a couple of years and having to start all over again in 3 years when George or Butler retire? This doesn't sound smart to me, tbh.

I would have the same approach with free agents, tbh. Unless we get young pieces that can stick for longer, when we are really ready to contend, there's no reason to add a veteran for a couple of seasons to raise our floor and turn a #4 pick into a #12 pick, tbh.

I know we are all tired of sucking, but this is the smart thing to do. Everybody agrees we are lacking a #2 option, but the #2 option can't be 34 years old, nor a midget PG, adding such players would only stunt the process.

I'm not saying outright tank either. Keep an eye for opportunities to add young pieces that can help us for years down the road, when we are ready to compete. On the meantime, just keep developing our young players. See who is a long term piece, and who needs to move on.

Personally, I would start a lineup of Castle, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby. Get Keldon's trade value back up and deal him at the trade deadline.

And who knows, maybe this group shows enough internal growth that we are actually decent by the mid point of next season, Maybe Castle is the shit, maybe Vassell takes his game to another level, maybe Sochan becomes a reliable shooter. Then you change the strategy and pivot into adding some help before the tradeline. Just don't make any offseason moves for no 30 year old to raise our floor from a top 5 pick to a mid teens one.

[DAF86]

Follow the bolded parts if you are too lazy to read 7 brief paragraphs, tbh.

[Uriel]

OP, this take is too rational and mature for SpursTalk. Don’t you know this is a place for bitching and moaning only?

[Kurik]

Follow the bolded parts if you are too lazy to read 7 brief paragraphs, tbh.

May as well just bold the entire thing, tbh. But I agree with you haha.

[Leetonidas]

I've already been waiting 5 years man :lol what's another year of suckage I guess

[z0sa]

Looks like this is the plan, and it's not the worst. But it does suck in this moment, knowing our next season is likely forfeit. At least I can get on the Tank Crew (now - last season was not a tank) and not feel like I'm betraying my own common sense.

[TekXX]

Yea sure...big moves after next season...you just wait and see.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see players on the market or the Spurs wanting to make a move yet. There will probably be significant movement once again this summer, as decaying old teams and near-contenders are trying to keep from dying or push over the line. It's a flat landscape where Boston is very good but not invulnerable. We've already seen the Knicks make a major move.

We may see players like Brandon Ingram, Dejounte Murray, Paul George, and even Karl Anthony-Towns on the move. Probably Darius Garland.

I don't see big moves yet. They added a major piece in Castle and have some holes to fill. Maybe a veteran. Find shooters somewhere. Nothing massive at this point. Keep growing.

[DAF86]

BTW, this is why the Dilly trade sucks major ass, tbh. He would have made another season of "internal growth" so much more fun and exciting.

[spurraider21]

Keep an eye for opportunities to add young pieces that can help us for years down the road, when we are ready to compete.
the #8 spot in the NBA draft is a good place to start

[Mugen]

A big swing like PG/Butler doesn't make sense obviously.

But a guy like Cam Johnson would be a really, really nice add to this team. He'd really help alleviate some of the fit issues that we'll have with Castle/Sochan in the SL. Would help Vic and Devin to have a nice outlet valve as well.

Contract is fair and he's still young. Just rolling back the same scrubs from last year + Castle would be a major failure on their part tbh.

[DAF86]

I don't see players on the market or the Spurs wanting to make a move yet. There will probably be significant movement once again this summer, as decaying old teams and near-contenders are trying to keep from dying or push over the line. It's a flat landscape where Boston is very good but not invulnerable. We've already seen the Knicks make a major move.

We may see players like Brandon Ingram, Dejounte Murray, Paul George, and even Karl Anthony-Towns on the move. Probably Darius Garland.

I don't see big moves yet. They added a major piece in Castle and have some holes to fill. Maybe a veteran. Find shooters somewhere. Nothing massive at this point. Keep growing.

Only if they are 27 or younger, tbh. No reason to get McDermott to transform our 3rd pick into the 10th, tbh.

[DAF86]

the #8 spot in the NBA draft is a good place to start


BTW, this is why the Dilly trade sucks major ass, tbh. He would have made another season of "internal growth" so much more fun and exciting.

[spurraider21]

DAF86 think we posted those at about the same time tbh :lol

[montgod]

BTW, this is why the Dilly trade sucks major ass, tbh. He would have made another season of "internal growth" so much more fun and exciting.

Maybe but we all know it would be short lived cause Pop would have had him stay in the G League for the whole season w/o improved defense and/or shooting unwarranted 3s

[Chinook]

What a load of hooey. It's completely divorced from the realities of the salary cap and just time in general. Like, if the Spurs have the ability to change the team's floor to 35ish wins, why not do it? If that's their floor, what do you think their ceiling would be in that scenario? Why would you commit yourself to giving Cam his next extension years before he's even eligible for it? That's what it would take for him to be a better long-play than George.

People have it backwards. When you're a contender, then you want vets signed into long-term deals, because they're under control for your whole contending window. When you aren't a contender, then you trade those guys to contenders for hauls. Get past the superficial thinking that if your star is young, you want to surround him with young players. That's what the draft is for. When the star is young, you give him legit vets to teach him. When he's older, you give him young players to guide. That's how you build a lasting system, not by bringing in guys who'll only be useful after their contract is up.

We don't have a choice but to be patient. But we don't have to keep eating the same shit sandwich year after year and having someone slide up and tell us it's a delicacy our pallettes are too unrefined to appreciate.

[DAF86]

Maybe but we all know it would be short lived cause Pop would have had him stay in the G League for the whole season w/o improved defense and/or shooting unwarranted 3s

He would have been fun to watch even on the G-league.

[Mr. Body]

Only if they are 27 or younger, tbh. No reason to get McDermott to transform our 3rd pick into the 10th, tbh.

In the 2nd round thread there are some mentioned. I'd love to get a Cam Spencer or Tristan Newton. They'll probably be smart enough to get going pretty fast. They're older, but skilled.

[Dverde]

You forgot the part about getting a coach that isn’t cooked who don’t try to make second year forwards play point guard

[DAF86]

What a load of hooey. It's completely divorced from the realities of the salary cap and just time in general. Like, if the Spurs have the ability to change the team's floor to 35ish wins, why not do it? If that's their floor, what do you think their ceiling would be in that scenario? Why would you commit yourself to giving Cam his next extension years before he's even eligible for it? That's what it would take for him to be a better long-play than George.

People have it backwards. When you're a contender, then you want vets signed into long-term deals, because they're under control for your whole contending window. When you aren't a contender, then you trade those guys to contenders for hauls. Get past the superficial thinking that if your star is young, you want to surround him with young players. That's what the draft is for. When the star is young, you give him legit vets to teach him. When he's older, you give him young players to guide. That's how you build a lasting system, not by bringing in guys who'll only be useful after their contract is up.

We don't have a choice but to be patient. But we don't have to keep eating the same shit sandwich year after year and having someone slide up and tell us it's a delicacy our pallettes are too unrefined to appreciate.

You are so confused about this whole thing is comical, tbh. :lol

Let's say we get Paul George, what happens then? Tell me your expected scenario.

[ginobilized]

Last night I was not down with this approach. Today, it makes more sense.
One aspect that occurs to me is that the Spurs might be looking at the picks as an investment of time, development, energy and a lot of money. Maybe they didn't deem any players worthy of this investment except Castle.

Also, I think the FO has some moves planned. Hopefully they can pull them off.
Next year's draft and free agency will be the time to make real moves. If that doesn't happen, no one will be very happy.

[dbestpro]

In the 2nd round thread there are some mentioned. I'd love to get a Cam Spencer or Tristan Newton. They'll probably be smart enough to get going pretty fast. They're older, but skilled.

Cam Spencer or Antonio Reeves can bring the three.

[LeBowen]

I feel like some of you are completely out of touch.

1) What does giving up #8 in such weak draft have to do with tanking? None of the wings we could've picked in the lottery would've had an immediate impact on winning the next season. Even if Salaun was there, he's probably the biggest prospect of them all. One could argue that having less rookies, especially project players, means we're focused more on winning.

2) Just a few of us in here wanted Dillingham for months and we all understand the gamble Wolves took. Meanwhile a lot of posts today are meltdowns for the sake of having a meltdown by posters who didn't even want Dillingham. I know there were also other players on the board, but still.

3) We can't tank anymore. Tank as in get top5 odds. Not if Wemby is healthy. 25/12 season is a given for him. Look at all those Eastern teams that have nothing. Wizards, Nets, Detroit, Hornets, even the Bulls look like they're going to be tanking. Blazers and maybe Jazz in the West. No way we get a top5 record. Just play to win and develop players, we'll have two mid-late lottery picks and a ton of other assets to maybe trade up.

4) We need to wait and see what happens during the summer. If we don't get at least one legit wing, then PATFO are morons because having a dysfunctional roster doesn't help young players develop. But as for now, stop overreacting.

5) Castle is obviously the point guard project, forget about Dillinghams, Traes, Garlands and any other undersized guards. We can just hope he develops because if he does, those players will be unplayable against us.

[DAF86]

I feel like some of you are completely out of touch.

1) What does giving up #8 in such weak draft have to do with tanking? None of the wings we could've picked in the lottery would've had an immediate impact on winning the next season. Even if Salaun was there, he's probably the biggest prospect of them all. One could argue that having less rookies, especially project players, means we're focused more on winning.

2) Just a few of us in here wanted Dillingham for months and we all understand the gamble Wolves took. Meanwhile a lot of posts today are meltdowns for the sake of having a meltdown by posters who didn't even want Dillingham. I know there were also other players on the board, but still.

3) We can't tank anymore. Tank as in get top5 odds. Not if Wemby is healthy. 25/12 season is a given for him. Look at all those Eastern teams that have nothing. Wizards, Nets, Detroit, Hornets, even the Bulls look like they're going to be tanking. Blazers and maybe Jazz in the West. No way we get a top5 record. Just play to win and develop players, we'll have two mid-late lottery picks and a ton of other assets to maybe trade up.

4) We need to wait and see what happens during the summer. If we don't get at least one legit wing, then PATFO are morons because having a dysfunctional roster doesn't help young players develop. But as for now, stop overreacting.

5) Castle is obviously the point guard project, forget about Dillinghams, Traes, Garlands and any other undersized guards. We can just hope he develops because if he does, those players will be unplayable against us.

Did you read the OP in full?


I'm not saying outright tank either.

This thread in no way implies that I think PATFO will tank. In fact, like you said, trading the #8 pick for future assets implies the complete opposite (I'm fearing a Garland trade, tbh).

I just made this thread to state my case that I'm totally against making moves for aging vets like George or Butler, or flawed ones like Trae or Garland. I'm all in for going for young, more well rounded ones like Cade or Lauri, or young complementary pieces like Cam Johnson, tbh. If not, I would rather stay put and get a lottery pick.

[LeBowen]

Did you read the OP in full?

Did I say you're out of touch?

[DAF86]

Did I say you're out of touch?

It read like it, tbh.

[LeBowen]

It read like it, tbh.

My bad, it's just that people are having meltdowns ever since the trade, it's kind of annoying.

[My Fault]

Logic is not allowed here :lol

[The Truth #6]

I would say the Spurs have found a nuanced distinction between tanking and not prioritizing winning next season. I also think Victor is much more ready to win next season as a goal than the front office is. We have a big lack of talent and we decided not to add more talent with the 8th pick. I think it's pretty much that simple. Of course they are wanting to play the long game with the hope of a big move but that will be getting out of their comfort zone. It's sort of a paradox. The more they keep kicking the can down the road you can look at it as preparing for a big move or a continuation of not making a stronger move in the moment.

My opinion right now is that when we have extra draft picks in the coming years they will just take them down the road again. I think it's easier for the team to find young affordable talent in the draft and mold players to their liking than it is to take older players and expect them to get on board with the way things are done in San Antonio, so I think it's a much much smaller pool of talent to choose from and going in a trade, and so it's not just that I think they're reluctant to make big moves, I think they are also very rigid in particular in the kind of players they would bring in.

[stnick2261]

I completely agree. We don't necessarily need the top draft pick in 2025. We can fill out the team with draft picks wherever we end up. There will be players in the late lottery that would be upgrades over our roster. What I don't want is for us to add players this off-season who we would have to replace next year because the options are better next year (whether in the draft, trade or FA).

[scott]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

[DAF86]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

To be clear, I'm talking just about this season, that's why I wrote "Be Patient for ONE more season". Why one more season? This upcoming draft seems to be stacked and the free agency class is way better. After next season the patience is over, tbh.

[SpursDynasty85]

To be clear, I'm talking just about this season, that's why I wrote "Be Patient for ONE more season". Why one more season? This upcoming draft seems to be stacked and the free agency class is way better. After next season the patience is over, tbh.

I actually think we should be in contention for play-in spots this year. Contending with Lakers/Warriors/Kings/Rockets type level the way we were playing near the end of the season and then adding in Castle. Next year I fully do not expect the Hornets pick to convey. Bulls will likely rebuild so their pick is unlikely to convey next year. Hawks and Spurs picks should be in the 15 range probably. So not too bad.

Hopefully at that point we can bring up the trade values of Wesley, Branham, and Sochan and trade them for 1-2 lottery type picks. Package them for a top 7 pick.

[baseline bum]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

Next year's draft vs this year's is apples and oranges man, I don't think punting on this one means they would next year with two lottery picks. I wanted Buzelis too but maybe he sucked in workouts or teams thought he was an idiot or some other thing we're not privy to but front offices saw that caused his slide to 11 in a weak draft. I absolutely would rather have the pick and the swap than pissing the pick away on Salaun. You talk about the FO gaslighting but maybe Carter hype was just that: the Spurs gaslighting the league to thinking Carter was better than he was and who the Spurs were targeting.

[DAF86]

I actually think we should be in contention for play-in spots this year. Contending with Lakers/Warriors/Kings/Rockets type level the way we were playing near the end of the season and then adding in Castle. Next year I fully do not expect the Hornets pick to convey. Bulls will likely rebuild so their pick is unlikely to convey next year. Hawks and Spurs picks should be in the 15 range probably. So not too bad.

Hopefully at that point we can bring up the trade values of Wesley, Branham, and Sochan and trade them for 1-2 lottery type picks. Package them for a top 7 pick.

Sure, I'm all for competing but with young guys. There's no reason to bring a veteran to make the team better, only to have to start all over again in a couple of years when said veteran is no longer in the team.

[poopbox]

There is no grand plan

There is no grand design

The front office is bad. The only great move they have made is the no brainer one to draft Wemby.

How are some of you convincing yourselves that a team that never makes a big trade (unless there star player is forcing his way out :lol) is somehow gearing up to make a big trade or a trade of any kind?

Spurs are going to do what they did last year, they are going to pay some bums a little bit of money to be bums, they are going to try and keep cap space open so they can get involved in some deal and get something out of it, and they are going to whiff on getting in on that deal because nobody else in the league gives two fucks about them or their trash ass players or their picks that won't equate to anything.:lol

The only thing that happened last night is a guy who already built a title team in Denver and is in the process of building a competing one in Minnesota fleeced a GM how outside of drafting Victor hasn't done anything but draft players who are either bust are trying to stay off the registered sex offender list :lol . It was like watching a person of at least average intelligence trick a retarded person into giving them something valuable for something the person has no interest in keeping, like a picks 6 and 7 years out.

A team who sucks and has sucked for years came to the conclusion that there are no players who can help us win now or in the future at the 8th pick. A team who has gotten better every year to the point they are now playing in a conference finals said there is a player in this draft who can help us at the 8th pick let me call up one of two teams in the nba who never make a trade worth a shit or signs anyone worth a shit so i can get said player. Who you think is going to end up being correct? The team who hasn't had a winning season in 5 years, or the team who hasn't had a losing season in 3 years?

[poopbox]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

This can't be stressed enough. Pop made record money this year to play Sochan at point and to run a front office he threw a number 8 pick in a box that won't be open for close to a decade :lol

[Mugen]

This can't be stressed enough. Pop made record money this year to play Sochan at point and to run a front office he threw a number 8 pick in a box that won't be open for close to a decade :lol

Not true. He also did some crowd control for us this past season when he yelled at the fans for booing. Clown Show FO :lol

[weebo]

Unless we trade for a young star player like a Cade Cunningham or a Lauri Markkanen (no Trae Young, nor Garland, please), the best the Spurs can do is just sit tight, develop internal growth and get a top pick in the supossedly stacked upcoming draft.

I've seen a lot of people, like my man Chinook, asking for the Spurs to get Paul George or Jimmy Butler, they are both fucking 34 years old, what benefit can we possibly get from them? Miss out on a top pick in this upcoming draft for the chance to be a 2nd round exit in the playoffs for a couple of years and having to start all over again in 3 years when George or Butler retire? This doesn't sound smart to me, tbh.

I would have the same approach with free agents, tbh. Unless we get young pieces that can stick for longer, when we are really ready to contend, there's no reason to add a veteran for a couple of seasons to raise our floor and turn a #4 pick into a #12 pick, tbh.

I know we are all tired of sucking, but this is the smart thing to do. Everybody agrees we are lacking a #2 option, but the #2 option can't be 34 years old, nor a midget PG, adding such players would only stunt the process.

I'm not saying outright tank either. Keep an eye for opportunities to add young pieces that can help us for years down the road, when we are ready to compete. On the meantime, just keep developing our young players. See who is a long term piece, and who needs to move on.

Personally, I would start a lineup of Castle, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby. Get Keldon's trade value back up and deal him at the trade deadline.

And who knows, maybe this group shows enough internal growth that we are actually decent by the mid point of next season, Maybe Castle is the shit, maybe Vassell takes his game to another level, maybe Sochan becomes a reliable shooter. Then you change the strategy and pivot into adding some help before the tradeline. Just don't make any offseason moves for no 30 year old to raise our floor from a top 5 pick to a mid teens one.

Watch out. You might get called out for being a "sniffer." I don't mind getting one or two vets to show these young bucks the ropes, but I wouldn't mind either if we just stayed the course with all the youth on the team.

[Ice009]

Not true. He also did some crowd control for us this past season when he yelled at the fans for booing. Clown Show FO :lol

Yeah, that was not good. Was that Kawhi the fans were booing? If so, did he do that for Kawhi, or did he do that because he genuinely thought fans shouldn't boo players. That really was strange. That's a big FU to the fans. If the fans want to boo someone, it's their right to do it as they paid money to be there. As long as they don't cross the line, then who is Pop to tell them they can't boo an opposing player?

[Spurs Homer]

hahahahahahaha!

Brian Wright is addicted to...

picks!
trading picks!
drafting talent and trading it for....picks!


next season - yes next draft - you just wait!!!!

Addict brian will land two TOP TEN PICKS!

He will then - trade for more FUTURE PICKS!!!!

Picks = CRACK = Brian wright

[CapitalEmm]

This draft was a textbook example of the lack of vision, conviction and planning we’ve seen since Brian Wright has run the FO.

You can say we lack talent to compete so we’re going to stealth tank for picks, but then when the draft comes it’s a bitch move to then trade away a 8th pick. With Wemby, the team needs to be looking to win now, and nothing I’ve seen from this FO leads me to believe they are CIA planning to make a FA acquisition.

The Spurs don’t have the talent to punt away Top Tens, and have two high picks increases the chance one at least pans out. It’s not like our roster isn't shitty enough to have space for one more draft pick.

Not just that but for a pick swap and another pick in another 6-7 years? You’re not even guaranteed to make back the pick you just traded away.

This dude is an expert on getting picks I’ll give him that, but the product and talent on the floor sucks ass and this dude had left a wake of nothing but failure each franchise he’s been. But then when you get the high draft picks, to then trade them away makes zero sense. Like what the fuck was all that tanking for then?

[Brazil]

What Spurs got for a 8 pick in an historical weak draft is great value tbh... I don't get why people get so upset about 2030 / 2031, the chances of the Spurs keeping those assets are near 0, assets will be used before that.
Also there is no news breaking shit here, patience has always been what Spurs FO was telling us right after getting the first pick last year.

Spurs did not see value in this pick and time will tell if they were right or not. I guess the choice was between adding and developing yet another young prospect for what they see as a limited ceiling or getting more cap flex and future assets.

Spurs, next year, should improve significantly anyway, FO should also finally understand what they have in their hands. Spurs will also keep an eye on trade possibilities if they see value for Wemby development.

Also next year we should be free of experimental stuff like Sochan at PG for the first half of the year... so yeah there is that

[objective]

You forgot the part about getting a coach that isn’t cooked who don’t try to make second year forwards play point guard

It's funny, because people only remember Sochan at point guard as a failed experiment then on to Tre Jones.

But there were other failed experiments in-between. Osman got a start at point guard when the plug got pulled on Sochan. It seems kind boggling that after a month of Sochan crippling the offense and Zollins dumping his ass all over the court that the big adjustment Pop found was ... Cedi Osman, point guard. After that was a stretch of bad Branham games.

[Ice009]

This draft was a textbook example of the lack of vision, conviction and planning we’ve seen since Brian Wright has run the FO.

You can say we lack talent to compete so we’re going to stealth tank for picks, but then when the draft comes it’s a bitch move to then trade away a 8th pick. With Wemby, the team needs to be looking to win now, and nothing I’ve seen from this FO leads me to believe they are CIA planning to make a FA acquisition.

The Spurs don’t have the talent to punt away Top Tens, and have two high picks increases the chance one at least pans out. It’s not like our roster isn't shitty enough to have space for one more draft pick.

Not just that but for a pick swap and another pick in another 6-7 years? You’re not even guaranteed to make back the pick you just traded away.

This dude is an expert on getting picks I’ll give him that, but the product and talent on the floor sucks ass and this dude had left a wake of nothing but failure each franchise he’s been. But then when you get the high draft picks, to then trade them away makes zero sense. Like what the fuck was all that tanking for then?

I think they don't think this year's draft was a great one and I think they're eyeing next season's draft and free agency. I don't know for sure, but we'll see I guess.

[scott]

To be clear, I'm talking just about this season, that's why I wrote "Be Patient for ONE more season". Why one more season? This upcoming draft seems to be stacked and the free agency class is way better. After next season the patience is over, tbh.

Someone else will just make the same post next season

[DAF86]

I think many people are missing the point of this thread and think I'm excusing the FO, when it's actually the oposite, tbh.

The Dilly trade is inexcusable to me and goes in complete opposite directions of the spirit of this thread: being patient and developing young prospects.

The logic of the Dilly trade indicates that PATFO are trying to stockpile assets to make a move for a player. My fear is they are going to go for a 34 year old player, that will be long gone by the time we're actually ready to contend for real, or a flawed player, that will hinder us for years (I don't know why I have a feeling they might be targeting Garland).

The point of this thread was to state my preference of waiting for next season to start being agressive, or, if you want to move now, do it for players that make sense, which, imho, would be players like Markkanen or Cunningham.

[MarCowMar]

The trade from a value PoV was fine and will give us a nice injection of talent in the middle of Wemby's career.

To me the trade says a combination of things (some of them conjecture):

1) We've got enough kids on the team that need playing time to develop. No sense in adding more.

2) The talent available at 8 would have created a logjam or wasn't high enough to justify keeping the pick.

3) Some of our existing players are ready for bigger roles this season.

4) We see tanking for the 2025 as a viable strategy to secure our 2nd star. No 3PG ability on the team creates a natural ceiling for our win total, and that deficiency is intentionally being left unaddressed.

I think it's great that the franchise has a long-term outlook. As long as Wemby is on board with it we're fine.

[Chinook]

You are so confused about this whole thing is comical, tbh. :lol

Let's say we get Paul George, what happens then? Tell me your expected scenario.

I've put out like 36 Million scenarios. You can comment on any of those.

This reply isn't even trying, man. I get it was late on a deflating evening, so I'm legit not gonna hold it against you. The Spurs getting a floor of a play-in team (which is where the 12th pick would be before you argue) using cap space and non-premium assets, it doesn't make sense to not do it. There are contenders who don't have that high of a floor. If we were talking about going all in to do that, that's one thing. But when it's a team full of young players with a ton of future picks? You take that every day. Take that and then build off it. That's much smarter than trying to be horrible, hoping the rihht guys fall and dump picks if they don't, then try to compete.

[scott]

Next year's draft vs this year's is apples and oranges man, I don't think punting on this one means they would next year with two lottery picks. I wanted Buzelis too but maybe he sucked in workouts or teams thought he was an idiot or some other thing we're not privy to but front offices saw that caused his slide to 11 in a weak draft. I absolutely would rather have the pick and the swap than pissing the pick away on Salaun. You talk about the FO gaslighting but maybe Carter hype was just that: the Spurs gaslighting the league to thinking Carter was better than he was and who the Spurs were targeting.

I posted this in another thread... but this year's class wasn't always expected to be so weak (it was only known that there wasn't a Wemby at the top), and there is absolutely no assurance that next year's won't also be weak. And I think overtime we will see that it was only weaker than a "normal class" in the Top 5 or so, and it was pretty "normal" after that.

If you look at the recruit rankings (admittedly, this excludes international prospects not going into the NCAA), last year's class had no 100 rated prospects, but had seven 99 rated, and eleven 98 rated. https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

The 2025 Draft Class has two 100 rated prospects (Flagg and Bailey), five 99 rated, and eleven 98 rated. https://247sports.com/season/2024-basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

The only real difference in the two classes going into their freshman year is at the very top - but the 2025 Draft Class may even up flopping just as hard as this one, we just never know.

[JuneJive]

It's all about Wemby as I see it.

Who fits best, and most importantly when.

Blowing it prematurely would be exciting but not smart.

[DAF86]

I've put out like 36 Million scenarios. You can comment on any of those.

This reply isn't even trying, man. I get it was late on a deflating evening, so I'm legit not gonna hold it against you. The Spurs getting a floor of a play-in team (which is where the 12th pick would be before you argue) using cap space and non-premium assets, it doesn't make sense to not do it. There are contenders who don't have that high of a floor. If we were talking about going all in to do that, that's one thing. But when it's a team full of young players with a ton of future picks? You take that every day. Take that and then build off it. That's much smarter than trying to be horrible, hoping the rihht guys fall and dump picks if they don't, then try to compete.

Ok, so we get Paul George, we make the playoffs, lose in the first round, miss on a lottery pick. Year two, make the second round. Third year, George is gone, we get worse and have no co-star to help Wemby. How does that make sense?

[objective]

The mistake is thinking the Spurs have a plan or know what they're doing.

They don't.

The whole front office follows from the top down: And Pop is the old confused assisted living escapee who actually commandeered the PA System at a game to chastise sports fans for .... Booing. Not throwing things. Not hurling slurs. Not cursing. Not fighting. But ... Booing.

Pop is completely gone. He's the guy who after taking the Sochan expiriment weeks too long replaced him with Cedi Osman at point guard.

This is pop who spent almost an entire season LIMITING Derrick White to 23 minutes a game and never allowed him to play with Dejounte until a pandemic hit.

And they take their cues from Pop. RC might not be able to string 2 sentences together anymore, he needed BWright to talk to the media.

Wright has held the title of either GM or Assistant GM for 10 years but still has so little to make a good reputation off of that people's go to excuse for him is that he's new to the job.

They lucked into Wembanyama, hallelujah! But they don't know what's happening, they don't know how to draft. They thought Primo was an on ball superstar!

[scott]

The trade from a value PoV was fine and will give us a nice injection of talent in the middle of Wemby's career.

To me the trade says a combination of things (some of them conjecture):

1) We've got enough kids on the team that need playing time to develop. No sense in adding more.

2) The talent available at 8 would have created a logjam or wasn't high enough to justify keeping the pick.

3) Some of our existing players are ready for bigger roles this season.

4) We see tanking for the 2025 as a viable strategy to secure our 2nd star. No 3PG ability on the team creates a natural ceiling for our win total, and that deficiency is intentionally being left unaddressed.

I think it's great that the franchise has a long-term outlook. As long as Wemby is on board with it we're fine.

I 100% believe that the Spurs think this... and that's part of the problem.

[vy65]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

Everyone needs to read this.

[vy65]

What Spurs got for a 8 pick in an historical weak draft is great value tbh... I don't get why people get so upset about 2030 / 2031, the chances of the Spurs keeping those assets are near 0, assets will be used before that.
Also there is no news breaking shit here, patience has always been what Spurs FO was telling us right after getting the first pick last year.

Spurs did not see value in this pick and time will tell if they were right or not. I guess the choice was between adding and developing yet another young prospect for what they see as a limited ceiling or getting more cap flex and future assets.

Spurs, next year, should improve significantly anyway, FO should also finally understand what they have in their hands. Spurs will also keep an eye on trade possibilities if they see value for Wemby development.

Also next year we should be free of experimental stuff like Sochan at PG for the first half of the year... so yeah there is that

They're upset because it demonstrates PATFO's strategy is to just collect assets, without any semblance of an understanding on how to deploy those assets to improve the team. That's what posts like this and others ignore: Morey'ing the team by collecting assets - trading assets into more assets - without any guiding vision on how to use those assets to better the team is what you'd expect from a hedge fund manager, not the front office of a basketball team. The point here is to put the best team together. Collecting assets is a part of that. But so is understanding how to use those assets to better the team. People are upset over the trade because it screams collecting assets for assets' sake -- Brian Wright admitted to as much during yesterday's press conference.

And that is to say nothing about how insulting it is for the team to intentionally tank 1 year of Wemby - only to throw the fruit's of that tanking 2 presidential terms into the future. Are we just supposed to sit back and marvel at Wright et al doing a shitty hedge fund manager imitation act and swallow it all because Wemby is fucking good? If you think the answer to that is yes, then you're lost beyond repair.

People shouldn't just give the front office a pass because "they got some assets." That's not the fucking point of this exercise. The fucking point is to collect assets - and - use them to build a good team. There has been nothing but negative movement on the latter front. There has been nothing out of Blake, Branham, Zollins, Champegnie, etc... that could or should inspire a feeling that we have a good "core" together. They're just not that good. They had an opportunity to add one of the highest picks in the history of the franchise, and instead deferred action to 3/4 of a decade from now.

These should be wringing major alarm bells.

[vy65]

The logic of the Dilly trade indicates that PATFO are trying to stockpile assets to make a move for a player.

The next time the team uses a stock pile of draft assets to get a star player will be the first time. I don't get why so many people here have confidence that this will happen. Could it? Of course, anything is possible. Will it? I think the chances are slim-to-none.

[objective]

The logjam of talent are toilet logs

[vy65]

And for the refrain that this draft sucks - according to who? A front office who's evaluation took Josh Primo over Sengun and Vassell over Halliburton. You're trusting those guys' assessment?

[widowmaker]

Just as long as wemby doesn’t pull a kawitter, I won’t be mad when he decides to leave.

[widowmaker]

Just as long as wemby doesn’t pull a kawitter, I won’t be mad when he decides to leave.

[scott]

They're upset because it demonstrates PATFO's strategy is to just collect assets, without any semblance of an understanding on how to deploy those assets to improve the team. That's what posts like this and others ignore: Morey'ing the team by collecting assets - trading assets into more assets - without any guiding vision on how to use those assets to better the team is what you'd expect from a hedge fund manager, not the front office of a basketball team. The point here is to put the best team together. Collecting assets is a part of that. But so is understanding how to use those assets to better the team. People are upset over the trade because it screams collecting assets for assets' sake -- Brian Wright admitted to as much during yesterday's press conference.

And that is to say nothing about how insulting it is for the team to intentionally tank 1 year of Wemby - only to throw the fruit's of that tanking 2 presidential terms into the future. Are we just supposed to sit back and marvel at Wright et al doing a shitty hedge fund manager imitation act and swallow it all because Wemby is fucking good? If you think the answer to that is yes, then you're lost beyond repair.

People shouldn't just give the front office a pass because "they got some assets." That's not the fucking point of this exercise. The fucking point is to collect assets - and - use them to build a good team. There has been nothing but negative movement on the latter front. There has been nothing out of Blake, Branham, Zollins, Champegnie, etc... that could or should inspire a feeling that we have a good "core" together. They're just not that good. They had an opportunity to add one of the highest picks in the history of the franchise, and instead deferred action to 3/4 of a decade from now.

These should be wringing major alarm bells.

To further this point, it is one thing to collect assets - but there are real questions about the Spurs ability to actually convert those assets into the literal only way assets can eventually help the team: turning them into real players.

And here today we have another great example, pick #35 (which hey, is a pretty good asset!), that they used on a stash who will likely never even come over because they didn't want to give a guaranteed contract. Here is situation where trading for more assets would have been a better more - but instead it is an asset that has been extinguished into NOTHING (unless Nunez eventually comes over, which I doubt).

Assets have no value when put into the hands of people who don't know how to use them.

The number 8 pick in the NBA draft is a huge asset, but one we couldn't find anymore value for other than just punting into future assets down the road.

This FO invites all the sharp criticism of it that it is receiving. It is fortunate that the local media are full of sniffers, just like a big portion of it's fan base. It provides cover for the culture of unaccountability.

[Mr. Body]

I don't understand the incredible reluctance to have any guaranteed contracts or even try an early second round pick out.

Something has changed drastically in two years and I can't figure out what it is. They went to giving Branham, Wesley, Cissoko out, to having nothing to do with these sorts of players. If we went into the 2022 draft with this mindset, they'd throw those picks away.

But the team isn't in that position. It needs to try out talent. It's not in cap hell.

Unless ownership has said not to waste money (on potentially cut players). If that's the case, we're in big, big trouble.

[J_Paco]

I don't understand the incredible reluctance to have any guaranteed contracts or even try an early second round pick out.

Something has changed drastically in two years and I can't figure out what it is. They went to giving Branham, Wesley, Cissoko out, to having nothing to do with these sorts of players. If we went into the 2022 draft with this mindset, they'd throw those picks away.

But the team isn't in that position. It needs to try out talent. It's not in cap hell.

Unless ownership has said not to waste money (on potentially cut players). If that's the case, we're in big, big trouble.

Yeah, being a bottom - 5 team and making 'cost cutting' moves like trading away pick while draft & stashing another is alarming. Not sure how they plan on improving the team of they won't take on (more) draft prospects, are hesitant to make big trades and can't/won't attract big free agents.

This has been a very bizarre, alarming and disappointing draft even if it's was/is 'historically weak.'

[scott]

I don't understand the incredible reluctance to have any guaranteed contracts or even try an early second round pick out.

Something has changed drastically in two years and I can't figure out what it is. They went to giving Branham, Wesley, Cissoko out, to having nothing to do with these sorts of players. If we went into the 2022 draft with this mindset, they'd throw those picks away.

But the team isn't in that position. It needs to try out talent. It's not in cap hell.

Unless ownership has said not to waste money (on potentially cut players). If that's the case, we're in big, big trouble.

I'm going to switch gears and put my optimistic hat on for a moment to present a possible explanation - the only explanation I think that can redeem this FO in my mind.

It is possible that the FO has decided that it is time to reshape this team with veteran talent this offseason and that they are avoiding filling the roster with guaranteed money that will potentially block this pursuit.

I will caveat this in saying that if this is the case, we will see this happening THIS offseason (not some "we are keeping flexibility for the future" kind of bullshit), because using an SRP on a prospect doesn't actually hamper your flexibility in future years. This pure avoidance of adding any more rookies beyond Castle only makes sense if they plan on being aggressive with trades and FA this summer (and by being aggressive I don't necessarily mean a move for a star, just being active to reshape the roster).

That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.

The only other explanation is that they really believe in the talent they have on the roster and they don't want to create distractions to that... which is a completely delusional and out-of-whack opinion to have, so I hope it's not the case.

[LeBowen]

If we were under a front office that was competent, all these would be seen as win-now moves.
Drafted the most NBA ready high upside prospect and didn't get any project players, even in the second round.
Getting all the possible cap space and picks to make a trade while having 3.5 useful players on the roster.

Too bad PATFO won't make a big move.
I'd be happy with them getting a couple of actual NBA players to make the team functional.

[RC_Drunkford]

The trade from a value PoV was fine and will give us a nice injection of talent in the middle of Wemby's career.

To me the trade says a combination of things (some of them conjecture):

1) We've got enough kids on the team that need playing time to develop. No sense in adding more.

2) The talent available at 8 would have created a logjam or wasn't high enough to justify keeping the pick.

3) Some of our existing players are ready for bigger roles this season.


to be fair nothing indicates that Branham, Wesley, Barlow and Bassey are legitimate NBA rotation players. All of them might be gone by 2025.

[SouthernFryd]

I thought this post was going to be a SNL parody type of thing. And I'm still not sure he's serious...but, it seems he is.

And THAT is the biggest problem we have. Not that the SPURS suck and the F/O is the worst of the worst, including POP. But, that there are a lot of SPURS fans who accept and support this bullshit. We need more fans knocking down doors and demanding better.

And no one in their right mind thinks that trading a #8 pick to Minnesota for...nothing...is better than picking Dalton Knecht at 8.

It's all bullshit. And fans need to stop sucking up to it and accepting/justifying the bullshit. Years of horrible basketball and FO/Coaching decisions, has driven the smart basketball fans away...and left us with mostly morons in the stands and supporting the team.

[Mr. Body]

I'm going to switch gears and put my optimistic hat on for a moment to present a possible explanation - the only explanation I think that can redeem this FO in my mind.

It is possible that the FO has decided that it is time to reshape this team with veteran talent this offseason and that they are avoiding filling the roster with guaranteed money that will potentially block this pursuit.

I will caveat this in saying that if this is the case, we will see this happening THIS offseason (not some "we are keeping flexibility for the future" kind of bullshit), because using an SRP on a prospect doesn't actually hamper your flexibility in future years. This pure avoidance of adding any more rookies beyond Castle only makes sense if they plan on being aggressive with trades and FA this summer (and by being aggressive I don't necessarily mean a move for a star, just being active to reshape the roster).

That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.

The only other explanation is that they really believe in the talent they have on the roster and they don't want to create distractions to that... which is a completely delusional and out-of-whack opinion to have, so I hope it's not the case.

Yeah, this is probably the only reasonable take possible at this point. They are nickel and diming their cap space. The cap space has to be spent. Somehow. So... I guess they know what they're going to do.

The idea that they're under orders to not mess around with even relatively cheap contracts is chilling. Say, with Furphy: how much would he be making? Like, Julian Champagnie money? Two million a year? How is that a problem?

And then the roster is hardly set. I'm more patient with these players than others here, but can't no one pretend a good third of these players are anything special that you wouldn't throw a decent wing prospect into the mix.

[SouthernFryd]

This post sounds reasonable, but is really the result of the gaslighting that PAFTO has been laying on us about "patience".

After we have another season with very little development outside of Wemby and maybe Castle, and when we punt more picks for future draft capital, you'll be able to write the same thing. This is the key feature of PAFTO's patience grift: it can be repeated ad infinitum with no deadlines or actual expectations to actually turn the corner.

Everyone is salivating over these swaps - but swaps don't mean shit when YOU continue to be the worst team :lol (this is not directed towards you, OP).

When I first clicked on this, I assumed it was going to be a hilarious parody post... but instead it's exactly what PAFTO has been grooming - just more runway for the fans so they can continue to be the highest paid FO in the league and deliver cellar dweller results. Landing Victor was great for everyone, but especially for PAFTO, who now get to point at something (that they got by luck) and say "LOOK HOW BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS IF YOU JUST BE PATIENT"

If I wasn't a native San Antonian I'd have abandoned this team by now.

Amongst so many absolute garbage takes...this guy gets it.

[ChumpDumper]

I thought this post was going to be a SNL parody type of thing. And I'm still not sure he's serious...but, it seems he is.

And THAT is the biggest problem we have. Not that the SPURS suck and the F/O is the worst of the worst, including POP. But, that there are a lot of SPURS fans who accept and support this bullshit. We need more fans knocking down doors and demanding better.

And no one in their right mind thinks that trading a #8 pick to Minnesota for...nothing...is better than picking Dalton Knecht at 8.

It's all bullshit. And fans need to stop sucking up to it and accepting/justifying the bullshit. Years of horrible basketball and FO/Coaching decisions, has driven the smart basketball fans away...and left us with mostly morons in the stands and supporting the team.So what are you actually going to do about it?

Not watch?

OK.

Then what?

[CitizenDwayne]

I thought this post was going to be a SNL parody type of thing. And I'm still not sure he's serious...but, it seems he is.

And THAT is the biggest problem we have. Not that the SPURS suck and the F/O is the worst of the worst, including POP. But, that there are a lot of SPURS fans who accept and support this bullshit. We need more fans knocking down doors and demanding better.

And no one in their right mind thinks that trading a #8 pick to Minnesota for...nothing...is better than picking Dalton Knecht at 8.

It's all bullshit. And fans need to stop sucking up to it and accepting/justifying the bullshit. Years of horrible basketball and FO/Coaching decisions, has driven the smart basketball fans away...and left us with mostly morons in the stands and supporting the team.
Buddy, I agree with everything you’re saying but I really don’t think that’s what OP is saying

[scott]

Yeah, this is probably the only reasonable take possible at this point. They are nickel and diming their cap space. The cap space has to be spent. Somehow. So... I guess they know what they're going to do.

The idea that they're under orders to not mess around with even relatively cheap contracts is chilling. Say, with Furphy: how much would he be making? Like, Julian Champagnie money? Two million a year? How is that a problem?

And then the roster is hardly set. I'm more patient with these players than others here, but can't no one pretend a good third of these players are anything special that you wouldn't throw a decent wing prospect into the mix.

Agree with you fully here. As I've been saying in my very sharp criticism since yesterday, I don't even have a problem with moving out of #8 in concept, it's just that we got such terrible value in return that really bothers me.

But literally throwing away a SRP rather than taking a flyer on a Furphy (or literally anyone) because you don't want to give a cheap guaranteed deal? It comes down to either extreme thrift at the expense of progress OR complete hubris in regard to the talent currently on the roster. Both explanations are equally as concerning. Trading #35 for two future SRPs would have been better. Just more extremely questionable asset management.

After this draft, I have real questions about how this FO approaches asset management - they clearly seem to value having them, while appearing completely clueless on how to use them.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs were a great team for too long. They don't know how to draft like a young team. They don't know how to utilize assets like a team that doesn't have assets. You have to hope that they luck into another Manu and another Parker and another LDN.

[widowmaker]

If we were under a front office that was competent, all these would be seen as win-now moves.
Drafted the most NBA ready high upside prospect and didn't get any project players, even in the second round.
Getting all the possible cap space and picks to make a trade while having 3.5 useful players on the roster.

Too bad PATFO won't make a big move.
I'd be happy with them getting a couple of actual NBA players to make the team functional.

They would have been the type of moves OKC or MIA makes, organizations that seem to find something useful or at least give them a chance and flip them if they don’t work out.

[Chomag]

If we had a competent FO then maybe I would be more on board of this idea but we don't.

[Mr. Body]

We should probably expect them to boot their picks next year, too.

[MultiTroll]

To any who didn't know, Timmy Duncan just keeps getting better and better. :lol

To have pulled 5 titles out and been completely robbed of a 6th.

7th 8th 9th too. But no one is disputing 2013s robbery.

[DAF86]

I thought this post was going to be a SNL parody type of thing. And I'm still not sure he's serious...but, it seems he is.

And THAT is the biggest problem we have. Not that the SPURS suck and the F/O is the worst of the worst, including POP. But, that there are a lot of SPURS fans who accept and support this bullshit. We need more fans knocking down doors and demanding better.

And no one in their right mind thinks that trading a #8 pick to Minnesota for...nothing...is better than picking Dalton Knecht at 8.

It's all bullshit. And fans need to stop sucking up to it and accepting/justifying the bullshit. Years of horrible basketball and FO/Coaching decisions, has driven the smart basketball fans away...and left us with mostly morons in the stands and supporting the team.


I think many people are missing the point of this thread and think I'm excusing the FO, when it's actually the oposite, tbh.

The Dilly trade is inexcusable to me and goes in complete opposite directions of the spirit of this thread: being patient and developing young prospects.

The logic of the Dilly trade indicates that PATFO are trying to stockpile assets to make a move for a player. My fear is they are going to go for a 34 year old player, that will be long gone by the time we're actually ready to contend for real, or a flawed player, that will hinder us for years (I don't know why I have a feeling they might be targeting Garland).

The point of this thread was to state my preference of waiting for next season to start being agressive, or, if you want to move now, do it for players that make sense, which, imho, would be players like Markkanen or Cunningham.

[DAF86]

Buddy, I agree with everything you’re saying but I really don’t think that’s what OP is saying

Someone that got it.

[DAF86]

Just so that people understand where I'm coming from, a move I would be perfectly fine with doing is taking advantage of the Nets blowing it up (and Marks being a friend of the house) to propose something like:

Cam Johnson for Keldon Johnson and a protected first round pick.

That's both a long and short term move. Cam makes us immediately better but also is young enough that, if the team works and finds chemistry, you know you can keep him for the next 5 to 7 years, at least. You don't have to worry about starting all over again in 3 years.

[TD 21]

I realize you're trying to come to terms with this disgrace of a draft (if I owned the team, I'd have fired the entire front office on the spot), but just stop. You know better.

I'm late to the party, so this'll probably be buried among the rubble in minutes and I'll just be regurgitating what the few knowledgeable, non "sniffer" posters have said but . . .

- This reeks of a toxic combination of zero accountability and hubris. They're so consumed with trying to to look creative and forward thinking that they're outsmarting themselves.

- Yes, in a vacuum this might be good value, but it isn't within' this context.

- I'll believe them continuing to stockpile the "war chest" for a significant trade(s) when I see it. What was the last significant acquisition via trade that they made on their own volition?

- They're clearly trying to do what I've long said, which was recreate the Duncan era, where they can draft their rigid ideals of a Spur, fit them into their militaristic environment and live a utopian existence again.

- The picks they can't/don't want to roster, they'll either combine to trade up or more likely keep kicking the can down the road in virtual perpetuity.

- I also don't buy that this was cap related, since it only added about $6M in space and there were other avenues to do so.

- Nor do I buy the lack of roster space excuse. A team this bereft of talent, that should have an impetus to look like a competent team immediately, can't credibly make that argument.

- The worst part of all of this is that it's not the least bit surprising and that the brainwashed apologists continue to attempt to spin this as part of some grand plan, instead of acknowledging the ineptitude of the past three quarter of a decade that would have got anyone else fired.

[DAF86]

TD21 my dude, read. :lol


I think many people are missing the point of this thread and think I'm excusing the FO, when it's actually the oposite, tbh.

The Dilly trade is inexcusable to me and goes in complete opposite directions of the spirit of this thread: being patient and developing young prospects.

The logic of the Dilly trade indicates that PATFO are trying to stockpile assets to make a move for a player. My fear is they are going to go for a 34 year old player, that will be long gone by the time we're actually ready to contend for real, or a flawed player, that will hinder us for years (I don't know why I have a feeling they might be targeting Garland).

The point of this thread was to state my preference of waiting for next season to start being agressive, or, if you want to move now, do it for players that make sense, which, imho, would be players like Markkanen or Cunningham.

[Mr. Body]

At first I thought they might have a specific cap room number they were trying to get to. This would let them absorb a specific salary (or two) without giving up anything in return. They liked everyone too much to give anyone up or whatever.

But now I think they just don't want new players.

[spurraider21]

I dont think detroit is even considering moving Cunningham

Lauri will be for sale, but the Mikal trade may have broken the market in the same way Gobert did a couple years ago. the other issue is it is historically very hard to strike a deal with Ainge where he doesn't bend you over

[scott]

Before we completely write off the idea of using this cap space on a free agent... let me remind everyone that Doug McDermott is a free agent.

[scott]

I realize you're trying to come to terms with this disgrace of a draft (if I owned the team, I'd have fired the entire front office on the spot), but just stop. You know better.

I'm late to the party, so this'll probably be buried among the rubble in minutes and I'll just be regurgitating what the few knowledgeable, non "sniffer" posters have said but . . .

- This reeks of a toxic combination of zero accountability and hubris. They're so consumed with trying to to look creative and forward thinking that they're outsmarting themselves.

- Yes, in a vacuum this might be good value, but it isn't within' this context.

- I'll believe them continuing to stockpile the "war chest" for a significant trade(s) when I see it. What was the last significant acquisition via trade that they made on their own volition?

- They're clearly trying to do what I've long said, which was recreate the Duncan era, where they can draft their rigid ideals of a Spur, fit them into their militaristic environment and live a utopian existence again.

- The picks they can't/don't want to roster, they'll either combine to trade up or more likely keep kicking the can down the road in virtual perpetuity.

- I also don't buy that this was cap related, since it only added about $6M in space and there were other avenues to do so.

- Nor do I buy the lack of roster space excuse. A team this bereft of talent, that should have an impetus to look like a competent team immediately, can't credibly make that argument.

- The worst part of all of this is that it's not the least bit surprising and that the brainwashed apologists continue to attempt to spin this as part of some grand plan, instead of acknowledging the ineptitude of the past three quarter of a decade that would have got anyone else fired.

Some of these things are so painfully obvious that it is shocking that there are people (led by the local Spurs media) who fail to see it.

[scott]

I dont think detroit is even considering moving Cunningham

Lauri will be for sale, but the Mikal trade may have broken the market in the same way Gobert did a couple years ago. the other issue is it is historically very hard to strike a deal with Ainge where he doesn't bend you over

Fuck it, give Ainge whatever picks he wants. It's not like we're going to do anything with them.

[DAF86]

I'm fully expecting the Spurs to make a (semi?) Relevant move this offseason. This is the only logical explanation I find to not wanting to take on all these rookie contracts and squeezing every little space of the cap room and trying to acquiere future assets. If not, you just have to think that a group full of seasoned veterans that have been extremely succesful at what they do have just completely lost their minds and have gone full blown retards, because there's literally no other reasoning for these moves they are making.

I'm smelling that Darius Garland trade from a mile away, and that's exacty what I don't want.

[The Whopper]

I joined the Go Spurs Go club in my elementary school in 1980.

I don’t wanna wait for my life to be over.

[scott]

I'm fully expecting the Spurs to make a (semi?) Relevant move this offseason. This is the only logical explanation I find to not wanting to take on all these rookie contracts and squeezing every little space of the cap room and trying to acquiere future assets. If not, you just have to think that a group full of seasoned veterans that have been extremely succesful at what they do have just completely lost their minds and have gone full blown retards, because there's literally no other reasoning for these moves they are making.

I'm smelling that Darius Garland trade from a mile away, and that's exacty what I don't want.

This draft was like a Game of Thrones story where George RR Martin sets the characters you love and a perfect setting for a happy ending (two top 10 picks)... and then murders them all in the most horrific way possible.

[Dex]

I think the Spurs can get away with one more year of patience, but they can't be a bottom 3 team again or Wemby is going to start getting anxious.

After that, they better stop sitting on their fucking hands and start playing cards.

[TrainOfThought5]

This draft was like a Game of Thrones story where George RR Martin sets the characters you love and a perfect setting for a happy ending (two top 10 picks)... and then murders them all in the most horrific way possible.

Cody Williams and Carter snatched from our fingers because…… a pick that probably won’t be worth a top ten pick in 2030, or 2031? Insane.

[spurraider21]

I'm fully expecting the Spurs to make a (semi?) Relevant move this offseason. This is the only logical explanation I find to not wanting to take on all these rookie contracts and squeezing every little space of the cap room and trying to acquiere future assets. If not, you just have to think that a group full of seasoned veterans that have been extremely succesful at what they do have just completely lost their minds and have gone full blown retards, because there's literally no other reasoning for these moves they are making.

I'm smelling that Darius Garland trade from a mile away, and that's exacty what I don't want.
if the spurs really do like Garland then they should have just kept Dillingham

it still hurts

[objective]

I'm fully expecting the Spurs to make a (semi?) Relevant move this offseason. This is the only logical explanation I find to not wanting to take on all these rookie contracts and squeezing every little space of the cap room and trying to acquiere future assets. If not, you just have to think that a group full of seasoned veterans that have been extremely succesful at what they do have just completely lost their minds and have gone full blown retards, because there's literally no other reasoning for these moves they are making.

I'm smelling that Darius Garland trade from a mile away, and that's exacty what I don't want.

If they were serious about cap space they would have never extended Zollins, so I don't find that to be a credible explanation.

And the seasoned veterans haven't been successful in over 5 years, and have a lot more misses than hits. And Wright has never been successful at anything other than getting hired.

[vy65]

I'm going to switch gears and put my optimistic hat on for a moment to present a possible explanation - the only explanation I think that can redeem this FO in my mind.

It is possible that the FO has decided that it is time to reshape this team with veteran talent this offseason and that they are avoiding filling the roster with guaranteed money that will potentially block this pursuit.

I will caveat this in saying that if this is the case, we will see this happening THIS offseason (not some "we are keeping flexibility for the future" kind of bullshit), because using an SRP on a prospect doesn't actually hamper your flexibility in future years. This pure avoidance of adding any more rookies beyond Castle only makes sense if they plan on being aggressive with trades and FA this summer (and by being aggressive I don't necessarily mean a move for a star, just being active to reshape the roster).

That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.

The only other explanation is that they really believe in the talent they have on the roster and they don't want to create distractions to that... which is a completely delusional and out-of-whack opinion to have, so I hope it's not the case.

I get that, and to an extent hope it’s true, but who? Trae? Garland? Ingram? None of them are needle movers and probably are net negative going forward. Barnes? Wiggins? More of the same. In theory, what you’re suggesting makes absolute sense. But I just don’t see any needle mover(s) in actuality. I love the idea of Jimmy Butler, but do we stick to a core of Blake and Branham to add a geriatric Butler for 2 years? I don’t get the point of that move, or anything in a similar vein.

[scott]

I get that, and to an extent hope it’s true, but who? Trae? Garland? Ingram? None of them are needle movers and probably are net negative going forward. Barnes? Wiggins? More of the same. In theory, what you’re suggesting makes absolute sense. But I just don’t see any needle mover(s) in actuality. I love the idea of Jimmy Butler, but do we stick to a core of Blake and Branham to add a geriatric Butler for 2 years? I don’t get the point of that move, or anything in a similar vein.

I'm not saying it's a good strategy... just that its the only one that makes this draft debacle make any sense :lol

LeBowen had an interesting approach going after Barnes and Cam Johnson. At least the team would be somewhat watchable at that point.

[Mr. Body]

if the spurs really do like Garland then they should have just kept Dillingham

it still hurts

To be fair, I guess, they were never interested in Dillingham. They traded the pick to Minnesota so picked him.

[vy65]

I'm not saying it's a good strategy... just that its the only one that makes this draft debacle make any sense :lol

LeBowen had an interesting approach going after Barnes and Cam Johnson. At least the team would be somewhat watchable at that point.

No, I get where you’re coming from. I just got caught up on the second round pick fiasco - which only reinforces the wanna be hedge fund manager trope we’ve been commenting on. At this point, this is an unserious team. They are intentionally avoiding getting better. It’s honestly not even worth discussing at this point.

[scott]

This quote from Wright continues to stick with me:

"We felt like the package that we got was one that made sense to move off the eighth pick for."

Just signals a complete lack of understanding of asset value and the management thereof. Just come out and say that you didn't like your options at 8. But pretending like this is some "Offer we couldn't refuse" is fucking embarrassing.

Folks suggested the concept of ATL trading #1 for their 25 pick back, and it was generally agreed ATL couldn't do that because they'd be lambasted by their fans... but here we are trying to justify trading the #8 pick for a pick 7 years away (which is statistically more likely to be worse than #8). I'd normally say it's an insult to the intelligence of Spurs fans... but a lot of them are apparently slurping it up.

[The Truth #6]

I think they like their current roster and aren't ready to move on from anyone. What's weird is they seemed to have the same attitude last year and then came out and got destroyed for the first 20 or 30 games. Yet here we are again? They say they think long term but don't seem very flexible or able to adapt.

[FireMicoHalili]

Unless we trade for a young star player like a Cade Cunningham or a Lauri Markkanen (no Trae Young, nor Garland, please), the best the Spurs can do is just sit tight, develop internal growth and get a top pick in the supossedly stacked upcoming draft.

I've seen a lot of people, like my man Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), asking for the Spurs to get Paul George or Jimmy Butler, they are both fucking 34 years old, what benefit can we possibly get from them? Miss out on a top pick in this upcoming draft for the chance to be a 2nd round exit in the playoffs for a couple of years and having to start all over again in 3 years when George or Butler retire? This doesn't sound smart to me, tbh.

I would have the same approach with free agents, tbh. Unless we get young pieces that can stick for longer, when we are really ready to contend, there's no reason to add a veteran for a couple of seasons to raise our floor and turn a #4 pick into a #12 pick, tbh.

I know we are all tired of sucking, but this is the smart thing to do. Everybody agrees we are lacking a #2 option, but the #2 option can't be 34 years old, nor a midget PG, adding such players would only stunt the process.

I'm not saying outright tank either. Keep an eye for opportunities to add young pieces that can help us for years down the road, when we are ready to compete. On the meantime, just keep developing our young players. See who is a long term piece, and who needs to move on.

Personally, I would start a lineup of Castle, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby. Get Keldon's trade value back up and deal him at the trade deadline.

And who knows, maybe this group shows enough internal growth that we are actually decent by the mid point of next season, Maybe Castle is the shit, maybe Vassell takes his game to another level, maybe Sochan becomes a reliable shooter. Then you change the strategy and pivot into adding some help before the tradeline. Just don't make any offseason moves for no 30 year old to raise our floor from a top 5 pick to a mid teens one.
we clearly missed out on Dilly as the #2 option :(

[TimmehC]

Asking a fanbase who grew up accustomed to cheering on a contender to now be patient after 5 years of failing to make the playoffs is a really tough sell. I can see the vision, but the execution of that vision is obviously yet to come. Let's just hope they have something lined up for when free agency starts, or this is going to be another miserable, frustrating year of very little progress.

[Chinook]

Ok, so we get Paul George, we make the playoffs, lose in the first round, miss on a lottery pick. Year two, make the second round. Third year, George is gone, we get worse and have no co-star to help Wemby. How does that make sense?

If the scenario you lined out happens, why do you think the Spurs wouldn't have a max slot? Vassell and Wemby will still be under their current contracts. If Johnson is on the team, he will be as well. If the Spurs have so much depth that they have good guys already signed going into the summer, they should have plenty of ballast for another trade. We're talking summer of 2026 here. The "war chest" would barely be touched.

The Spurs have double picks in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 and (now) 2031. They aren't going to have to worry about their lottery chances being solely determined solely determined by their record for quite a long time.

I'm assuming George or Butler would be around through 2027 or 2028. But if they weren't then guys like Mark, Young, Garland and whomever else would actually make more sense, because the Spurs would be in their contending window rather than years away like they are now.

Again, getting a guy now means nothing for whether they'll be on the roster in three or four years. The NBA just doesn't work that way. Getting young vets is exactly the wrong way to build around a young franchise player, which is why teams doing so have the bad track record that they do.

[widowmaker]

I wonder if Brian Wright reads “How to be a General Manager” by Jerry Jones?

[BackHome]

If the scenario you lined out happens, why do you think the Spurs wouldn't have a max slot? Vassell and Wemby will still be under their current contracts. If Johnson is on the team, he will be as well. If the Spurs have so much depth that they have good guys already signed going into the summer, they should have plenty of ballast for another trade. We're talking summer of 2026 here. The "war chest" would barely be touched.

The Spurs have double picks in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 and (now) 2031. They aren't going to have to worry about their lottery chances being solely determined solely determined by their record for quite a long time.

I'm assuming George or Butler would be around through 2027 or 2028. But if they weren't then guys like Mark, Young, Garland and whomever else would actually make more sense, because the Spurs would be in their contending window rather than years away like they are now.

Again, getting a guy now means nothing for whether they'll be on the roster in three or four years. The NBA just doesn't work that way. Getting young vets is exactly the wrong way to build around a young franchise player, which is why teams doing so have the bad track record that they do.

I am fine with going with picks but they not even doing that they sale our 8th pick and then for Gods know what let Indiana pick Furpy what are they doing? There is only 3 players that should stay every one else jobs should be on the line every year and tested by our future picks

[scott]

If the scenario you lined out happens, why do you think the Spurs wouldn't have a max slot? Vassell and Wemby will still be under their current contracts. If Johnson is on the team, he will be as well. If the Spurs have so much depth that they have good guys already signed going into the summer, they should have plenty of ballast for another trade. We're talking summer of 2026 here. The "war chest" would barely be touched.

The Spurs have double picks in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 and (now) 2031. They aren't going to have to worry about their lottery chances being solely determined solely determined by their record for quite a long time.

I'm assuming George or Butler would be around through 2027 or 2028. But if they weren't then guys like Mark, Young, Garland and whomever else would actually make more sense, because the Spurs would be in their contending window rather than years away like they are now.

Again, getting a guy now means nothing for whether they'll be on the roster in three or four years. The NBA just doesn't work that way. Getting young vets is exactly the wrong way to build around a young franchise player, which is why teams doing so have the bad track record that they do.

Just one small clarification, we do not have double picks in 2028 or 2030. We only have one pick in those years, but there are Swap Rights.

I do find it an interesting coincidence that our Swap Rights are with the 3 teams last standing in this year's playoffs.

[DAF86]

If the scenario you lined out happens, why do you think the Spurs wouldn't have a max slot? Vassell and Wemby will still be under their current contracts. If Johnson is on the team, he will be as well. If the Spurs have so much depth that they have good guys already signed going into the summer, they should have plenty of ballast for another trade. We're talking summer of 2026 here. The "war chest" would barely be touched.

Let's say the have a max slot available. First, there needs to be a max guy available. Second, said max guy needs to fit the team. It isn't as easy as "we have max cap, let's bring a star" and you just start collecting championships.


The Spurs have double picks in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 and (now) 2031. They aren't going to have to worry about their lottery chances being solely determined solely determined by their record for quite a long time.

The only one I care about is this next season's pick, that's it. Secure a Traore and then you can start going all in trying to maximize winning as much as possible.


I'm assuming George or Butler would be around through 2027 or 2028. But if they weren't then guys like Mark, Young, Garland and whomever else would actually make more sense, because the Spurs would be in their contending window rather than years away like they are now.

Due, just no. :lol Outside of Markkanen, none of the guys you mentioned make sense, because neither would make us championship contenders, not in the short term nor in the long run. Butler and George because they are too old, and Young and Garland because they are too flawed. This is the exact reason why I made this thread and you keep bringing those names up. :lol

Do you really think the Spurs can win it all with Darius fricking Garland as our #2?


Again, getting a guy now means nothing for whether they'll be on the roster in three or four years. The NBA just doesn't work that way.

If getting a Jimmy Butler now, just to lose in the first round in the next 2 seasons, prevents you from getting a Cooper Flagg, it does matter.


Getting young vets is exactly the wrong way to build around a young franchise player, which is why teams doing so have the bad track record that they do.

Which teams would these be?

[Chinook]

Just one small clarification, we do not have double picks in 2028 or 2030. We only have one pick in those years, but there are Swap Rights.

I do find it an interesting coincidence that our Swap Rights are with the 3 teams last standing in this year's playoffs.

So I should clarify. I typically call a pick with a swap attached a "double-pick" because it's the upside of two picks in one. So if I were being consistent I would put 2026 and 2028 as double-pick years and 2030 as a triple-pick year. I should have said that and will try to be consistent in the future. But the point I was making was that the Spurs have two shots at getting a lottery pick basically every year possible through 2031 and don't have to try to be bad themselves like DAF wants in order to get it.

[scott]

I don't think the Spurs need to try to be bad... the FO makes sure of it despite their best efforts.

[Chinook]

Let's say the have a max slot available. First, there needs to be a max guy available. Second, said max guy needs to fit the team. It isn't as easy as "we have max cap, let's bring a star" and you just start collecting championships.

There's always a max guy available if you're willing to pay for them. What's the point in all of these picks if the team is going to be conservative once Wemby actually hits his prime?


The only one I care about is this next season's pick, that's it. Secure a Traore and then you can start going all in trying to maximize winning as much as possible.

If it happens, it happens. But the Spurs shouldn't try to make it happen. They need to take the natural picks they get and make them work rather than dumping them because they have no imagination. Maybe they miss out on another top-five pick. But they should get more top-10 picks and need to have a better showing than they did this time.


Due, just no. :lol Outside of Markkanen, none of the guys you mentioned make sense, because neither would make us championship contenders, not in the short term nor in the long run. Butler and George because they are too old, and Young and Garland because they are too flawed. This is the exact reason why I made this thread and you keep bringing those names up. :lol

If you think that's a counter-argument, then you continue to miss the reasons to bring them in. The only thing -- literally only thing -- that will make the Spurs a contender will be Wemby. You don't sign Young or Garland, tank for Traore anything else to "make the Spurs a contender". Wemby grows into an actual contending centerpiece, and then you bring in guys in their prime to give him help. Until Wemby is ready, the move the team makes should be about helping him get ready. THAT'S the point of the win-now players, not because you're trying to win a title. If Wemby turns into a superstar next year, great, you have an outside chance ala the 2006 Heat. But that's not the point. Mark, Cam, whomever else, will do nothing to boost Wemby's growth rate. None of them know how to do shit. They're all just lotto guys and role-players. They need a Prime Wemby to guide them, which is why they can make sense in a few years.


Do you really think the Spurs can win it all with Darius fricking Garland as our #2?

First, I don't want Garland or Young. They're just as much anathema to me as Mark is. However, yes, of course the Spurs could win a title with Garland as their number two ... when Wemby's in his prime. I don't think people understand what Wemby's prime could look like, but yeah, I actually do expect him to be able to carry a team without another superstar to a title. It would be much better if it were Dillingham on a rookie contract or in the first year of his extension rather than Garland on a max, but the Spurs didn't see it that way.


If getting a Jimmy Butler now, just to lose in the first round in the next 2 seasons, prevents you from getting a Cooper Flagg, it does matter.

What you say suggests you haven't thought things through. Wemby with a decent supporting cast (like Cam level) isn't going to be in the running for a top-five pick based on their natural pick. If they get it, it should be based on the ATL pick, which doesn't care if the Spurs have Butler and are making the playoffs. For the Spurs Cooper Flagg simply doesn't matter if the alternative is getting Wemby the seasoning he needs to reach his prime sooner. Yes, go ahead and keep the lottery odds the Hawks gave up and see if you get lucky. But the Spurs can't afford to waste a year hoping the get a third-straight season of luck with pingpong balls. This year matters. They cannot waste it.

[DAF86]

So I should clarify. I typically call a pick with a swap attached a "double-pick" because it's the upside of two picks in one. So if I were being consistent I would put 2026 and 2028 as double-pick years and 2030 as a triple-pick year. I should have said that and will try to be consistent in the future. But the point I was making was that the Spurs have two shots at getting a lottery pick basically every year possible through 2031 and don't have to try to be bad themselves like DAF wants in order to get it.

Dude, are you being dumb on purpose or you really don't get it? I don't give a fuck about the "double" or "triple" picks 7 years from now. I obviously don't want to be bad for the next 7 years, it's just this upcoming season. Get a high pick, get a higher ceiling prospect than Castle and start building from that. The Hawks' pick next season doesn't project to be all that high (unless a very rare ocurrence like this year), so the high pick would need to come from our own record.

But even then, I'm not really saying to just go and try to lose. I'm just asking for PATFO not to artificially raise our floor with veteran signings that won't be here 3 years from now, that means no Butler/George moves, no Tobias Harrias, no McDermott, etc. Now, if the guys we have, plus some young guys gets that we could add (Cam Johnson, Malik Beasley) get us fighting for a play-in spot, then I would be the happiest man on Earth. Because it would mean that the process is working and we are building a solid fundation that will have time to keep developing together.

[scott]

I get what you are saying DAF86, where I disagree is that I don't want another year to set in the culture of losing. Let's say it all works out and we get Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or Nolan Traore or whomever is going to be the #1 pick. They aren't going to be as good as Wemby and will need a few years to reach a level where they can be that #2 to Wemby. That means we're going to be in Year 4 of Wemby before we can really start thinking about competing. I just feel like that's a bad move.

I largely agree with Chinook except for in one critical area: I think Markannen is more than just a role player - I think he'd be a legit #2, and if acquired this offseason the Spurs would be in a position to still add another player like George or Butler.

Example:

Spurs trade Keldon and picks for Lauri. That actually saves $1MM on the cap for the Spurs, who would now be able (doing rough estimate here) to create up to $27MM in room. Then you are just Collins away from a max slot for Paul George or whoever. You get a long term piece (Lauri) to go with Wemby and a short term piece as well.

Castle
Vassell
George
Lauri
Wemby

(I didn't work out the exact cap details, and I have no clue how to construct the rest of the team with the cap... sorry)

[Mikesatx]

Understanding our history might be helpful.

In 1986 the Spurs went 28-54. That led to the number 1 pick which was David Robinson. His Naval commitment deferred his arrival by 2 years which led to the Spurs drafting Willie Anderson (10) and Sean Elliott (3) before he got there. There was a built in tank. Those two guys became starters and focal points for years to come. In 1989 they also traded Alvin Robertson for Terry Cummings. The 5th spot started with Maurice Cheeks and ended with Rod Strickland. That team and every team except the 96/97 team was a contender. Every one of those teams gave the Spurs fan base the belief that they could win it all. None of those teams made it to a finals. It took a Robinson season ending injury and a lot of luck to get Duncan which led to the success we all know. I remember those years and I remember always being optimistic and the seasons always being fun. I also remember always being crushed when the season ended. The reality with those teams was they never were going to win a title. For everyone upset with the what the Spurs are doing now, if you would be happy with that sort of team then your points make more sense to me. If you want to go for the dynasty they don’t.

Trading the 8th pick is not overly complicated. They still need to get into the lottery next year. If there was a guy that would really move the needle they would have grabbed him. Otherwise you grab a guy that makes you a little better but not a long term piece. They don’t want to be a whole lot better next year.

i think it’s interesting that Cam Johnson has been mentioned. He seems to be the player that Dillingham is projected to be. Johnson can get you 40 or 50 in a given game but then New Jersey doesn’t give him minutes. How is that possible? The guy has no interest in defense.

Last thing, I think we have 10 jersey’s retired. Gervin & Silas go back to the ABA days. Not sure if the organization drafted them. If not we got them young. Johnny Moore similar deal. Robinson, Elliott, Tim, Manu & Tony were drafted. Avery & Bowen were throw away players that exceeded all expectations for us. My point is no guys are there that were stars we traded for or were star free agents we signed. Point being is the draft is our primary ticket.

[Chinook]

Dude, are you being dumb on purpose or you really don't get it? I don't give a fuck about the "double" or "triple" picks 7 years from now.

Nobody cares about what you care about man. YOU might specifically want to tank this year. If they do and fuck it up again, another poster might want tank for 2026. It doesn't matter. We all have our special nuanced takes on this. The Spurs don't have to chase 2025, just like they don't have to chase 2026 and didn't have to chase 2024. They instead should be the best they can and then make the best decisions to the situations they encounter.


But even then, I'm not really saying to just go and try to lose. I'm just asking for PATFO not to artificially raise our floor with veteran signings that won't be here 3 years from now, that means no Butler/George moves, no Tobias Harrias, no McDermott, etc. Now, if the guys we have, plus some young guys gets that we could add (Cam Johnson, Malik Beasley) get us fighting for a play-in spot, then I would be the happiest man on Earth. Because it would mean that the process is working and we are building a solid fundation that will have time to keep developing together.

A three-year floor raise is not artificial. Only a Spurs fan can have that misconception. Basketball is ephemeral, and three years is a long time. You keep repeating this not understanding that a guy being young doesn't mean he'll be on the team longer. That isn't how the NBA works. Not realizing that is undercutting your whole thesis. In "three years" the Spurs will need to do something else regardless of if they have George or Cam, Butler or Beasley. The team can't afford to pay players who are that bad on their next contract, seeing as they need to pay their actual good players the money they deserve. That's why George and Butler having their contracts fall off and them not being at a point where they should be making anywhere near that much, if anything, is good. It's not a quirk. It's the whole point. You get the guy who can actually do the job now, and you draft the guys to come up behind them. You don't pay a premium to guys who can't do the job just because you have a chance to pay them even more money to not be able to do the job in a few years.

These years matter. If they do this right, Wemby, Vassell, Castle and whomever else, will be ready to form a dark-horse core in year four. That requires them to have previously fought against barriers, seen playoff coaching, faced a true contender in a seven-game series. That's how you go from 2019 Jokic to 2023 Jokic. And you know who was the team's highest-paid player? Paul Millsap, who was in the second of his four-year stint with them. He saw them go from what would be a play-in team now to a perennial HCA team. He left Denver two years before they won the title. Dude didn't win a title with them, but he certainly helped put them on the path. THAT'S the point of the vets during the "three-year" window. It's not so that they can win with them. It's so they can learn to win without them.

[Chinook]

Understanding our history might be helpful.

In 1986 the Spurs went 28-54. That led to the number 1 pick which was David Robinson. His Naval commitment deferred his arrival by 2 years which led to the Spurs drafting Willie Anderson (10) and Sean Elliott (3) before he got there. There was a built in tank. Those two guys became starters and focal points for years to come. In 1989 they also traded Alvin Robertson for Terry Cummings. The 5th spot started with Maurice Cheeks and ended with Rod Strickland. That team and every team except the 96/97 team was a contender. Every one of those teams gave the Spurs fan base the belief that they could win it all. None of those teams made it to a finals. It took a Robinson season ending injury and a lot of luck to get Duncan which led to the success we all know. I remember those years and I remember always being optimistic and the seasons always being fun. I also remember always being crushed when the season ended. The reality with those teams was they never were going to win a title. For everyone upset with the what the Spurs are doing now, if you would be happy with that sort of team then your points make more sense to me. If you want to go for the dynasty they don’t.

Trading the 8th pick is not overly complicated. They still need to get into the lottery next year. If there was a guy that would really move the needle they would have grabbed him. Otherwise you grab a guy that makes you a little better but not a long term piece. They don’t want to be a whole lot better next year.

i think it’s interesting that Cam Johnson has been mentioned. He seems to be the player that Dillingham is projected to be. Johnson can get you 40 or 50 in a given game but then New Jersey doesn’t give him minutes. How is that possible? The guy has no interest in defense.

Last thing, I think we have 10 jersey’s retired. Gervin & Silas go back to the ABA days. Not sure if the organization drafted them. If not we got them young. Johnny Moore similar deal. Robinson, Elliott, Tim, Manu & Tony were drafted. Avery & Bowen were throw away players that exceeded all expectations for us. My point is no guys are there that were stars we traded for or were star free agents we signed. Point being is the draft is our primary ticket.

The Nets have two Cams. Thomas is the guard who can light it up but isn't a team player. Johnson is the forward who isn't very good but can shoot well. Dillingham may be like Thomas, but I wouldn't say he's like Johnson.

[Chinook]

I get what you are saying DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102), where I disagree is that I don't want another year to set in the culture of losing. Let's say it all works out and we get Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or Nolan Traore or whomever is going to be the #1 pick. They aren't going to be as good as Wemby and will need a few years to reach a level where they can be that #2 to Wemby. That means we're going to be in Year 4 of Wemby before we can really start thinking about competing. I just feel like that's a bad move.

I largely agree with Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) except for in one critical area: I think Markannen is more than just a role player - I think he'd be a legit #2, and if acquired this offseason the Spurs would be in a position to still add another player like George or Butler.

Example:

Spurs trade Keldon and picks for Lauri. That actually saves $1MM on the cap for the Spurs, who would now be able (doing rough estimate here) to create up to $27MM in room. Then you are just Collins away from a max slot for Paul George or whoever. You get a long term piece (Lauri) to go with Wemby and a short term piece as well.

Castle
Vassell
George
Lauri
Wemby

(I didn't work out the exact cap details, and I have no clue how to construct the rest of the team with the cap... sorry)

To be clear, I had Mark in the "lotto guy" part of the description, same as Young. I don't think the Spurs need a number two right now. I think they need a guy who can Wemby how to be a number one on a contending team. George and Butler know how to do that. I don't think the oft-coveted players do. However, once Wemby does internalize that growth then a number two would be worth the price, and there are a number of players who do fill that role once Wemby really become Wemby. For the right price, I wouldn't be opposed to Mark being around to learn. But considering the assets and cap cost, I don't think the time is right for him.

[Mikesatx]

The Nets have two Cams. Thomas is the guard who can light it up but isn't a team player. Johnson is the forward who isn't very good but can shoot well. Dillingham may be like Thomas, but I wouldn't say he's like Johnson.

My bad, I met Thomas.

[scott]

To be clear, I had Mark in the "lotto guy" part of the description, same as Young. I don't think the Spurs need a number two right now. I think they need a guy who can Wemby how to be a number one on a contending team. George and Butler know how to do that. I don't think the oft-coveted players do. However, once Wemby does internalize that growth then a number two would be worth the price, and there are a number of players who do fill that role once Wemby really become Wemby. For the right price, I wouldn't be opposed to Mark being around to learn. But considering the assets and cap cost, I don't think the time is right for him.

Yeah I understand what you are saying... but I just have a higher opinion of Lauri. However, I do still think you bring in another vet winner. It could be a Paul George but it doesn't have to be. Even a CJ McCollum could fill your Paul Milsap role (Milsap was never an NBA champ, but finished his career with 130 playoff games and 75 playoff starts. CJ at this point has 67 career playoff games and 57 playoff starts). He can't quite teach Wemby how to be a superstar from his own experience, but he has been around other superstars himself (and I wouldn't call Milsap a former superstar either). A 2-year overpay for someone like Klay might even nicely help fill that void, along with some bench additions in a guy like Batum.

That Lauri is a really good fit right now is a hill I'm ready to die on.

[DAF86]

Nobody cares about what you care about man. YOU might specifically want to tank this year. If they do and fuck it up again, another poster might want tank for 2026. It doesn't matter. We all have our special nuanced takes on this. The Spurs don't have to chase 2025, just like they don't have to chase 2026 and didn't have to chase 2024. They instead should be the best they can and then make the best decisions to the situations they encounter.



A three-year floor raise is not artificial. Only a Spurs fan can have that misconception. Basketball is ephemeral, and three years is a long time. You keep repeating this not understanding that a guy being young doesn't mean he'll be on the team longer. That isn't how the NBA works. Not realizing that is undercutting your whole thesis. In "three years" the Spurs will need to do something else regardless of if they have George or Cam, Butler or Beasley. The team can't afford to pay players who are that bad on their next contract, seeing as they need to pay their actual good players the money they deserve. That's why George and Butler having their contracts fall off and them not being at a point where they should be making anywhere near that much, if anything, is good. It's not a quirk. It's the whole point. You get the guy who can actually do the job now, and you draft the guys to come up behind them. You don't pay a premium to guys who can't do the job just because you have a chance to pay them even more money to not be able to do the job in a few years.

These years matter. If they do this right, Wemby, Vassell, Castle and whomever else, will be ready to form a dark-horse core in year four. That requires them to have previously fought against barriers, seen playoff coaching, faced a true contender in a seven-game series. That's how you go from 2019 Jokic to 2023 Jokic. And you know who was the team's highest-paid player? Paul Millsap, who was in the second of his four-year stint with them. He saw them go from what would be a play-in team now to a perennial HCA team. He left Denver two years before they won the title. Dude didn't win a title with them, but he certainly helped put them on the path. THAT'S the point of the vets during the "three-year" window. It's not so that they can win with them. It's so they can learn to win without them.

But Denver already had their core of Jokic and Murray and had gone 40-42 before acquiring Millsap on year 3 of Jokic's career. Don't you see that's exactly what I'm asking on this scenario? :lol

[DAF86]

Warriors in '09 - suck - Draft Curry
'10 - suck in Curry's rookie season
'11 - suck again
'12 - Draft Klay - suck again
'13 - Draft Draymond - start competing

[DAF86]

'07 Sonics suck - Draft Durant
'08 - Suck even harder on Durant's rookie season - change cities and name - draft Westbrook
'09 - keep on sucking - draft Harden
'10 - start competing

[JuneJive]

It's hard to be patient as a fan.

But the amount of wristcutting here, by what I believe are grown men, is laughable.

[DAF86]

'84 Bulls suck - draft Jordan
'85 Bulls suck in MJ rookie season
'86 Bulls suck even harder on MJ's sophomore year
'87 Bulls decent 40-42 - draft Pippen
'88 Bulls win 50 games

[DAF86]

I can keep going, but I think yall understand my point. This idea that the Spurs need to necessarily be good on Wemby's 2nd year or else you can't build a contender is just not true and, actually, the complete opposite of what has happened in the history of the NBA. What the Spurs need to do is find that 2nd core piece that will help Wemby contend for years to come, and that doesn't happen by signing 34 year olds (it doesn't happen gifting away picks for swaps 7 years from now either, tbh).

[venitian navigator]

I'm just disappointed we didnt draft Edey with the 8 pick. I could understand the wiew for future but frankly my impression is still now that we Just misreact After Just missed the actual "french"
targets... The point Is that also with Wemby we are bad at rebounding. Plus Wemby and Edey are imho perfect together on offense and Edey would have faced on defense strong big men likes Embiid. Plus and third reason is that one of our main opponents/challengers in our south west is going tò use against us the combo of strong big man (once Adams, now Edey) and mobile shot blocking big (Jackson for them) I had in mind for us (Edey/Wemby).

[LeBowen]

'84 Bulls suck - draft Jordan
'85 Bulls suck in MJ rookie season
'86 Bulls suck even harder on MJ's sophomore year
'87 Bulls decent 40-42 - draft Pippen
'88 Bulls win 50 games

All we need is Wemby to break his foot in his sophmore year and we're guaranteed top5 odds.

[mudyez]

OP:clap

[SouthernFryd]

Nice to see teams who are smart with their draft picks...get better eventually.

OP trying to suggest Spurs are being smart with their draft picks and will eventually get better because of it?

We just gave away a top 10 draft pick...for nothing.

[John B]

Nice to see teams who are smart with their draft picks...get better eventually.

OP trying to suggest Spurs are being smart with their draft picks and will eventually get better because of it?

We just gave away a top 10 draft pick...for nothing.

Watch Juan Nunez highlights and see who fits better passing to Wemby, and at 6’4 6’7 wingspan, MVP of the Spanish league. Who’s Dilly? I already forgot :lol

[Eaglenole2002]

We don’t have to make a splashy move because I do think it’s valuable to use this year to figure out how Wemby-Castle-Vassell fit, but I would like to see one shooter added, whether it’s a PG or a wing, so we can see functional lineups that will have some mix involving Jones, Castle and Sochan. A league average shooter (hopefully better), should give us a lot of information about how to move forward with Castle and Sochan.

[SouthernFryd]

Watch Juan Nunez highlights and see who fits better passing to Wemby, and at 6’4 6’7 wingspan, MVP of the Spanish league. Who’s Dilly? I already forgot :lol

Yes! I love this guy...from what I've seen anyway.

Juanobili.

Start him right now. No better learning experience than starting for a shitty team. You'll get way more minutes than playing on a good team. Start him tomorrow. This guy is a real point guard.

[daslicer]

They can tank for another year but if they are doing it in year 3 then it just shows their going downhill and have really no vision of how to build a team. I have never seen an organization do well with their superstar player by tanking 3 years in a row or longer and I would say only the Knicks with Ewing did this and Curry with the Warriors. There is an exception with Curry since the Warriors took several years to be a playoff team with him, but Curry didn't become a superstar until like year 5 or 6 of his career right when the Warriors became a playoff team. Victor looks like he will reach superstardom this upcoming season.

I feel the Spurs are more like the Knicks during the 80's when they were building a team around Ewing. I'm starting to see some similar parallels if the Spurs continue to be a lottery team for 3-4 seasons with Victor.

[BatManu20]

Markkanen is my dream pickup but after the Bridges trade, Ainge prob won't sell him for anything less that 5 or 6 FRP's which is just nuts. Not holding my breath on that anymore. I'm going to be paying closer attention to ATL's season next year than our own tbh cause we really need them to suck next year. Hopefully for our sake Risacher busts and the Hawks are even worse than they were this season. A lot will depend on what they trade Dejounte for, assuming he's gone this Summer.

[Chinook]

I can keep going, but I think yall understand my point. This idea that the Spurs need to necessarily be good on Wemby's 2nd year or else you can't build a contender is just not true

No one has ever said this. This has been the weird hat trick of this thread. No one's mad about the Spurs not getting George or Butler both because they haven't actually "not gotten them" yet and because people (or at least I) understand there's a difference between what one personally thinks is best and other okay paths that can be followed. Had the Spurs kept Dillingham/drafted someone else at eight and then proceeded to not make a move for a legit vet, I'd grumble but not really care. The reason why this thread hit so wrong is because you made it in the wake of the Spurs "deferring" a top-10 pick seven years. In other words, instead of being able to evaluate a "Dillingham/Williams and Wemby fit" to see if one of those guys was a long-term piece, they're giving themselves fewer options this year. It suggests they intend to be bad for a long time, not just one more year.

That's a huge reason why your thread is getting the eye-rolls it is. Nobody from the Spurs has indicated that the team is going to stop after this upcoming season. That you personally give them one more year of runway couldn't matter less, just as me giving them last season of runway doesn't matter. Building through the draft has plenty of problems, but it's at least a path forward, but after the draft, it's not clear the Spurs are on that path. So preaching patience about your personal special standard for when the tanking can stop rings hollow. That's not your fault, but it is the team's fault.


and, actually, the complete opposite of what has happened in the history of the NBA. What the Spurs need to do is find that 2nd core piece that will help Wemby contend for years to come.

But this is a different matter. You brought up three examples. The Curry one is inapplicable. He was a ninth pick who was injured so much that his first extension was very small. There was no pathway they built when they drafted him. He was closer to Dillingham than Wemby in terms of his cachet entering the league. I don't care about the Bulls, but seeing as the team drafted Pippen despite being what would be a play-in team, I don't think that's a good counter argument. I used the Thunder as an example last year and know it well. But their success came on the back of Durant's improvement. He blew up in his third year and dragged the Thunder to the playoffs. Wemby was already at second-year Durant level. It's not going to be easy to get a top-five pick from their natural selection, vets or no.

But you seem to misunderstand (somehow again) the issues with the idea of drafting a second and third guy. The Thunder were not going to be able to keep their team together. They chose to keep their two best players and move on from Harden. People blame Perkins, but it would have had to have happened sooner or later. That was under the old cap system too, before the Rose-Max and when all maxes were calculated from a different calculation of the revenue split (which was about 90-95 percent of the actual cap). No matter how many times you stick your fingers in your ears and shout, you can't keep teams together in the modern NBA. You used to be able to keep them together by asking guys to take less. Lebron made sure that didn't happen anymore. Then you used to be able to keep them together if you were willing to pay tax. The NBA severely curtailed that. The Spurs may be able to keep one guy with Wemby on a second max. But they are going to have to cycle players. That's why it's okay/necessary for Wemby to have ephemeral stars around him now -- he's going to be doing that his whole career no matter what, just as Lebron has and Doncic undoubtedly will.

[LeBowen]

Markkanen is my dream pickup but after the Bridges trade, Ainge prob won't sell him for anything less that 5 or 6 FRP's which is just nuts. Not holding my breath on that anymore. I'm going to be paying closer attention to ATL's season next year than our own tbh cause we really need them to suck next year. Hopefully for our sake Risacher busts and the Hawks are even worse than they were this season. A lot will depend on what they trade Dejounte for, assuming he's gone this Summer.

I've been reading some Jazz fan takes and while they're somewhat split between embracing the tank and wanting to keep Markkanen, they all agree that Ainge wouldn't accept just picks.
They have 15 FRPs in the next 6 drafts, they'll definitely want at least one player with high upside. I don't think that even Devin would be enough.
They'd want OKC's Williams or similar.

We can only hope Markkanen refuses to extend and Jazz holds on until the deadline.

[Brazil]

They're upset because it demonstrates PATFO's strategy is to just collect assets, without any semblance of an understanding on how to deploy those assets to improve the team. That's what posts like this and others ignore: Morey'ing the team by collecting assets - trading assets into more assets - without any guiding vision on how to use those assets to better the team is what you'd expect from a hedge fund manager, not the front office of a basketball team. The point here is to put the best team together. Collecting assets is a part of that. But so is understanding how to use those assets to better the team. People are upset over the trade because it screams collecting assets for assets' sake -- Brian Wright admitted to as much during yesterday's press conference.

And that is to say nothing about how insulting it is for the team to intentionally tank 1 year of Wemby - only to throw the fruit's of that tanking 2 presidential terms into the future. Are we just supposed to sit back and marvel at Wright et al doing a shitty hedge fund manager imitation act and swallow it all because Wemby is fucking good? If you think the answer to that is yes, then you're lost beyond repair.

People shouldn't just give the front office a pass because "they got some assets." That's not the fucking point of this exercise. The fucking point is to collect assets - and - use them to build a good team. There has been nothing but negative movement on the latter front. There has been nothing out of Blake, Branham, Zollins, Champegnie, etc... that could or should inspire a feeling that we have a good "core" together. They're just not that good. They had an opportunity to add one of the highest picks in the history of the franchise, and instead deferred action to 3/4 of a decade from now.

These should be wringing major alarm bells.

It is a bit soon to presume Spurs won't do shit with those assets or to think they have no clue. How can you judge assets use end of Wemby first year ? Besides I don't give pass, there is a rational behind Spurs decision to trade that pick that I try to understand.

I think we all agree that throwing around assets last year to sign bunch of players would have been dumb not knowing how Victor would adapt to the NBA, now they have a better vision and in this vision this pick was not worth it in the overall picture. Again way premature to determine Spurs FO does not know what they are doing. In the meantime, meltdowns are fun, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

On a side note unless I am mistaken but this pick has nothing to do with Spurs tanking. The tank brough the number 4 pick we will figure out if it was worth it.

[CitizenDwayne]

'84 Bulls suck - draft Jordan
'85 Bulls suck in MJ rookie season
'86 Bulls suck even harder on MJ's sophomore year
'87 Bulls decent 40-42 - draft Pippen
'88 Bulls win 50 games

I like this time frame but the roster will have to be nearly unrecognizable in 2 years to be a .500 team imo; we're still a long way away from that and still intent developing guys that will never be good. Hoping for the best but in the Brian Wright era this FO hasn't exactly been great at separating the wheat from the chaff

[Brazil]

:lol also funny to see that the reasonable guy is DAF tbh :lol

[Mr. Body]

'84 Bulls suck - draft Jordan
'85 Bulls suck in MJ rookie season
'86 Bulls suck even harder on MJ's sophomore year
'87 Bulls decent 40-42 - draft Pippen
'88 Bulls win 50 games

I fully agree with these timelines, am much more patient than many here, and even still have faith in developing some of the roster.

But I cannot imagine the Bulls, Warriors, or any of these teams throwing away a #8 pick or even an early second round pick at the end of these rookie seasons.

[vy65]

It is a bit soon to presume Spurs won't do shit with those assets or to think they have no clue. How can you judge assets use end of Wemby first year ? Besides I don't give pass, there is a rational behind Spurs decision to trade that pick that I try to understand.

I think we all agree that throwing around assets last year to sign bunch of players would have been dumb not knowing how Victor would adapt to the NBA, now they have a better vision and in this vision this pick was not worth it in the overall picture. Again way premature to determine Spurs FO does not know what they are doing. In the meantime, meltdowns are fun, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

On a side note unless I am mistaken but this pick has nothing to do with Spurs tanking. The tank brough the number 4 pick we will figure out if it was worth it.

I hear you. However, what your asking for is blind faith: faith that they will demonstrate they have a clue or faith that they will do shit with the assets. I prefer to look at the evidence:

- The draft strategy is not consistent with making near-term changes. 2031 is not 2027. Drafting and stashing for cash considerations is not consistent with making nearer term roster changes to visibly improve.
- The DNA of PATFO does not include a willingness to make a blockbuster change. I agree with those who say Pop and RC are still heavily involved, if not driving the ship. I've said this multiple times, but the first time they push all their chips in will be the first (and I'm happy to eat crow on this if/when they do so).
- They've repeatedly said that they have a long runway and are committed to the nucleus of personnel they have. Draft night presented an opportunity to move off of Blake, Branham, etc... They "liked what we have."
- They've also indicated that mindlessly stockpiling assets is "always a good strategy." The fact that they think Vic will stick around is great - I hope they're right. Their strategy is to preserve ability when he's 28/29 - while overlooking the 7-8 years in between that point - which is just stupid.
- They absolutely are tanking. Several reports - including one from Windhorst - have stated they are looking to the 2025 draft. Their stockpiling of what is now looking to be mid-first round picks is consistent with that.

I agree that there is a rationale. I disagree that it is a sane one. If you look at the evidence, you see a front office obsessed with accumulating assets with little-to-no near term vision on how to make improvements. Nor do you see any inclination as to when they'll "flip the switch," much less how they intend on doing so.

[RC_Drunkford]

here's why we traded Dillingham:

1793749621111742470

[vy65]

'84 Bulls suck - draft Jordan
'85 Bulls suck in MJ rookie season
'86 Bulls suck even harder on MJ's sophomore year
'87 Bulls decent 40-42 - draft Pippen
'88 Bulls win 50 games


Warriors in '09 - suck - Draft Curry
'10 - suck in Curry's rookie season
'11 - suck again
'12 - Draft Klay - suck again
'13 - Draft Draymond - start competing


'07 Sonics suck - Draft Durant
'08 - Suck even harder on Durant's rookie season - change cities and name - draft Westbrook
'09 - keep on sucking - draft Harden
'10 - start competing

I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but did any of those teams trade out a top-10 pick during those 4-5 year windows. I'd be surprised if they did, but could be wrong on that.

[Brazil]

I hear you. However, what your asking for is blind faith: faith that they will demonstrate they have a clue or faith that they will do shit with the assets. I prefer to look at the evidence:

- The draft strategy is not consistent with making near-term changes. 2031 is not 2027. Drafting and stashing for cash considerations is not consistent with making nearer term roster changes to visibly improve.
- The DNA of PATFO does not include a willingness to make a blockbuster change. I agree with those who say Pop and RC are still heavily involved, if not driving the ship. I've said this multiple times, but the first time they push all their chips in will be the first (and I'm happy to eat crow on this if/when they do so).
- They've repeatedly said that they have a long runway and are committed to the nucleus of personnel they have. Draft night presented an opportunity to move off of Blake, Branham, etc... They "liked what we have."
- They've also indicated that mindlessly stockpiling assets is "always a good strategy." The fact that they think Vic will stick around is great - I hope they're right. Their strategy is to preserve ability when he's 28/29 - while overlooking the 7-8 years in between that point - which is just stupid.
- They absolutely are tanking. Several reports - including one from Windhorst - have stated they are looking to the 2025 draft. Their stockpiling of what is now looking to be mid-first round picks is consistent with that.

I agree that there is a rationale. I disagree that it is a sane one. If you look at the evidence, you see a front office obsessed with accumulating assets with little-to-no near term vision on how to make improvements. Nor do you see any inclination as to when they'll "flip the switch," much less how they intend on doing so.

:lol Trust the process

I'm not asking blind faith but looking back at the couple of years previous to Wemby arrival they actually did it right, trading players for future assets to ensure a clean tank job to have a shot at Wemby while ensuring great cap space flex was the right move. I maybe in the minority here but I consider last season a great sucess. Wemby has been healthy and his improvement during the RS is mindblowing. Even with the experimental shit, Wemby pulled off the greatest rookie of all time and made the all star defensive team, he must be absolutely thrilled about that. To top it off Spurs having a number 4 pick even in a weak draft is great. For the rest we have, alongside Wemby, a reasonably good starter with Devin, a solid back up PG with Tre, a still potential with Sochan (not giving up yet) and some okay ish role players (Cedi, Julian, Mamu...)... that's not so bad (I'm a half full glass kinda guy).

On my side it is a so far so good state of mind. Regarding the trade of the pick I'm not thrilled about it, it would have been fun to watch Dillighan with Wemby but I understand where the FO is coming from.

[John B]

We’re lucky we didn’t have GM LeBron picking Bronny at 55th pick. That’s just funny

[TekXX]

Well, we'll need to find a Pippen if we're doing a bulls comparison, Vassell is no Pippen, he's a chucker.

[DAF86]

Nice to see teams who are smart with their draft picks...get better eventually.

OP trying to suggest Spurs are being smart with their draft picks and will eventually get better because of it?

We just gave away a top 10 draft pick...for nothing.

Actually, the opposite. Keep reading, tbh.

[DAF86]

I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but did any of those teams trade out a top-10 pick during those 4-5 year windows. I'd be surprised if they did, but could be wrong on that.

Why are folks assuming I'm fine with trading away Dilly? :lol

If you folks would have read just a couple posts below:


BTW, this is why the Dilly trade sucks major ass, tbh. He would have made another season of "internal growth" so much more fun and exciting.

This thread in now way excuses the dumb trades PATFO did during these two draft days, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, the Spurs were never going to take Dillingham. He wasn't the pick, Minnesota called, and then they said, "Well, let's give him up for a pick and swap next decade."

They didn't pick Dillingham for themselves and change their minds. They picked him for the Wolves.

Either they wanted Salaun and got pouty and refused to pick anyone else when Charlotte took him, or they never really liked anyone at 8 to begin with. Once Minnesota called with the deets, they traded the pick away before the draft happened.

[slick'81]

Yea, once we took castle to play pg dilly made zero sense here

[vy65]

Why are folks assuming I'm fine with trading away Dilly? :lol

The point is that the comparison to those three other teams breaks down because they weren't trading out of top-10 picks when they were rebuilding/spooling up.

[z0sa]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the patience or arguments after a couple of nights sleeping on it. Team rebuilding should NEVER trade away an 8th pick for another POTENTIAL lottery pick 7 years out. One that could easily be late teens even if everyone but Ant leaves. It's stupid, it's trading for the sake of trading and having a warchest, only there's literally 0 indication it will ever be used and PATFO are saying it won't. So if you're not trading for a player using the lottery picks and you're not using the actual picks from the lottery picks, WTF are you doing???

We should definitely trade for someone like Butler who can lift this team and help us grow since PATFO/ownership don't think they're a team rebuilding, but one that's already won multiple titles and simply needs retooling.

[CitizenDwayne]

Is it possible that Trae has been the target this whole time? Pelicans and Lakers were starting to show interest, so the two draft night moves may have been to strengthen their trade package.

But in that case would the Minny picks really make or break the deal?

[Bill_Brasky]

Why the fuck would anyone want Jimmy fucking Butler? God this site is retarded.

[ChumpDumper]

I do anticipate another year of salary floor soft tanking. It just makes the most sense from the ownership standpoint. I'm not saying I like it; my seeing it that way reduces wrist-slitting anguish to hopefully temporary resignation.

[Mr. Body]

I do anticipate another year of salary floor soft tanking. It just makes the most sense from the ownership standpoint. I'm not saying I like it; my seeing it that way reduces wrist-slitting anguish to hopefully temporary resignation.

If I see "soft tanking" as "win as many games as possible but don't sweat overdoing it," then I agree. And overdoing it I mean as making big trades for expensive vets. I do see interest in place-holder and instructive vets. I don't think they'll intentionally lose games or do weird lineups anymore, but they're still in "teach these babies how to play" mode.

And with Atlanta's pick probably late lottery, then they need to put theirs in decent position. Where Houston was this year would be good.

[J_Paco]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the patience or arguments after a couple of nights sleeping on it. Team rebuilding should NEVER trade away an 8th pick for another POTENTIAL lottery pick 7 years out. One that could easily be late teens even if everyone but Ant leaves. It's stupid, it's trading for the sake of trading and having a warchest, only there's literally 0 indication it will ever be used and PATFO are saying it won't. So if you're not trading for a player using the lottery picks and you're not using the actual picks from the lottery picks, WTF are you doing???

We should definitely trade for someone like Butler who can lift this team and help us grow since PATFO/ownership don't think they're a team rebuilding, but one that's already won multiple titles and simply needs retooling.

I want no parts of Jimmy 'Cancer' Butler in a Spurs jersey. Yuck!

He'd wear out his welcome in less than a season and would be flipped for a lower return.


Why the fuck would anyone want Jimmy fucking Butler? God this site is retarded.

:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

Right.

I think his short stint in Minnesota proves he isn't the best player for a young, underachieving, bottom 5 team.

[ChumpDumper]

If I see "soft tanking" as "win as many games as possible but don't sweat overdoing it," then I agree. And overdoing it I mean as making big trades for expensive vets. I do see interest in place-holder and instructive vets. I don't think they'll intentionally lose games or do weird lineups anymore, but they're still in "teach these babies how to play" mode.

And with Atlanta's pick probably late lottery, then they need to put theirs in decent position. Where Houston was this year would be good.

I think the only way a big trade happens early is if ownership is convinced it's almost a guaranteed home run by PATFO. I think the owners will follow the Holt tradition of spending big (relatively speaking) when the time is right. They seem to see these first couple Wemby years as a time to maximize profit off the hype which has so far proved immune to the heap of Ls the team has. They know they'll have to start spending that money soon enough.

[z0sa]

I want no parts of Jimmy 'Cancer' Butler in a Spurs jersey. Yuck!

He'd wear out his welcome in less than a season and would be flipped for a lower return.



:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

Right.

I think his short stint in Minnesota proves he isn't the best player for a young, underachieving, bottom 5 team.

THIS team has Wemby. It's time to stop comparing us to other teams when we already have a centerpiece who's the best defender in the NBA and top 25 on offense, probably top 20 or better next season.

Butler is just a name. Someone who can help, and now. It ain't happening but I don't have to align my interests with the ownership/business side as a fan.

and also, supposedly, we have the GOAT coach as well. He's supposed to be able to bring the talent out, maximize player potentials, find diamonds in the rough and he truly has done so before. No more bullshit trades and draft/stashes, let's go big or let's talk shit about how the owners are penny pinchers denying Wemby any help so they can hold on to tens of millions of dollars. Pop is a willing ally but that doesn't mean he's even the one at fault, at least anymore.

[scott]

I hear you. However, what your asking for is blind faith: faith that they will demonstrate they have a clue or faith that they will do shit with the assets. I prefer to look at the evidence:

- The draft strategy is not consistent with making near-term changes. 2031 is not 2027. Drafting and stashing for cash considerations is not consistent with making nearer term roster changes to visibly improve.
- The DNA of PATFO does not include a willingness to make a blockbuster change. I agree with those who say Pop and RC are still heavily involved, if not driving the ship. I've said this multiple times, but the first time they push all their chips in will be the first (and I'm happy to eat crow on this if/when they do so).
- They've repeatedly said that they have a long runway and are committed to the nucleus of personnel they have. Draft night presented an opportunity to move off of Blake, Branham, etc... They "liked what we have."
- They've also indicated that mindlessly stockpiling assets is "always a good strategy." The fact that they think Vic will stick around is great - I hope they're right. Their strategy is to preserve ability when he's 28/29 - while overlooking the 7-8 years in between that point - which is just stupid.
- They absolutely are tanking. Several reports - including one from Windhorst - have stated they are looking to the 2025 draft. Their stockpiling of what is now looking to be mid-first round picks is consistent with that.

I agree that there is a rationale. I disagree that it is a sane one. If you look at the evidence, you see a front office obsessed with accumulating assets with little-to-no near term vision on how to make improvements. Nor do you see any inclination as to when they'll "flip the switch," much less how they intend on doing so.

Spot on. If the draft is the primary mechanism by which team can improve... punting away Top 10 picks doesn't seem to signal a priority on improving the team in the near term.

[scott]

Is it possible that Trae has been the target this whole time? Pelicans and Lakers were starting to show interest, so the two draft night moves may have been to strengthen their trade package.

But in that case would the Minny picks really make or break the deal?

I could buy into the concept that moving #8 for more picks to package up in another move is the play... right up until I look at the return.

We can't trade the 2030 swap on it's own, we'd have to trade out #1, with DAL and MIN swaps attached, so an incremental second swap does very little to strengthen that pick (though it does, indeed, strengthen it - just not by all that much).

I don't think an extra 2031 FRP is going to make or break any contemplated trade.

Had we gotten some extra picks more near-term, I could see the argument.

[scott]

I do anticipate another year of salary floor soft tanking. It just makes the most sense from the ownership standpoint. I'm not saying I like it; my seeing it that way reduces wrist-slitting anguish to hopefully temporary resignation.

I hope we'll at least be a salary dumping ground. If we're going to be in the asset collection business, let's at least go all in on it.

[spurraider21]

Why are folks assuming I'm fine with trading away Dilly? :lol
probably because everybody was justifiably screeching about trading the #8 pick and in the midst of all that you decide a post a thread telling people to relax and be patient

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the patience or arguments after a couple of nights sleeping on it. Team rebuilding should NEVER trade away an 8th pick for another POTENTIAL lottery pick 7 years out. One that could easily be late teens even if everyone but Ant leaves. It's stupid, it's trading for the sake of trading and having a warchest, only there's literally 0 indication it will ever be used and PATFO are saying it won't. So if you're not trading for a player using the lottery picks and you're not using the actual picks from the lottery picks, WTF are you doing???
Agree. Unless I'm mistaken, before Victor, the last pick the Spurs had that was 8 or higher was Tim Duncan. You simply don't waste a pick like that for any reason when you are trying to build a team around a superstar. There is no excuse.

[Obstructed_View]

I could buy into the concept that moving #8 for more picks to package up in another move is the play... right up until I look at the return.

We can't trade the 2030 swap on it's own, we'd have to trade out #1, with DAL and MIN swaps attached, so an incremental second swap does very little to strengthen that pick (though it does, indeed, strengthen it - just not by all that much).

I don't think an extra 2031 FRP is going to make or break any contemplated trade.

Had we gotten some extra picks more near-term, I could see the argument.
Excellent point. Even if the Spurs could justify not adding talent, the asset that they traded for doesn't have equal value.

[scott]

Excellent point. Even if the Spurs could justify not adding talent, the asset that they traded for doesn't have equal value.

That is my biggest complaint and frustration about this whole thing once I move past the concept of a bad team punting a #8 pick. We just got terrible value in return.

[poopbox]

I want no parts of Jimmy 'Cancer' Butler in a Spurs jersey. Yuck!

He'd wear out his welcome in less than a season and would be flipped for a lower return.



:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

Right.

I think his short stint in Minnesota proves he isn't the best player for a young, underachieving, bottom 5 team.


Don't worry. A player as competitive as Jimmy Butler who has been to two finals in 5 years, would never ever play for a garbage ass organization like the Spurs who are more concerned with kicking the can down the road than winning basketball games.

If you ever saw a news article that said San Antonio Spurs trade for Jimmy Butler, the next article you would see would say "Jimmy Butler refuses to report because the Spurs are one of the 4 worst teams in the nba with no chance to do anything but loose their franchise player in 4 years"

I always fine this phenomenon of undesirable groups or people, and that what the Spurs are, an undesirable group, take a stance of "I would never want this person around" or "I never want this thing." It's like when a morbidly obese woman says I would never date this type of person. Bitch you weigh 330 pounds, you don't have to worry about dating anyone because no one wants you.:lol

Spurs fans are always like "I don't want this player who has had some success in the nba because of blah blah blah." Meanwhile the last 10 times that player played the Spurs he won 9 of the games, and he is already telling his agent to block Brian Wright number.:lol

[Obstructed_View]

I do anticipate another year of salary floor soft tanking. It just makes the most sense from the ownership standpoint. I'm not saying I like it; my seeing it that way reduces wrist-slitting anguish to hopefully temporary resignation.
:lol Well said. But the Spurs could have done the same thing with another lottery pick playing in Austin. Worst case scenario is one or both of them blow up and suddenly the Spurs are good. I don't see the harm in that.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Well said. But the Spurs could have done the same thing with another lottery pick playing in Austin. Worst case scenario is one or both of them blow up and suddenly the Spurs are good. I don't see the harm in that.

:lmao it's difficult to comprehend the cascading meltdowns that would be triggered by keeping a lottery pick in Austin.

[DPG21920]

I would be pretty annoyed if SA could have just drafted Dilly and instead uses 4 firsts to trade for Trae or Garland for the ‘honor” of paying them 35+ when they have the same archetype as Dilly who allows you to keep all your picks and majority of cap space.

I don’t think SA is going to do that however thank goodness. I agree with Chump about Spurs plan. Just hoping they sign 2 quality vets that can shoot and play and force some guys down the rotation

[spurraider21]

I would be pretty annoyed if SA could have just drafted Dilly and instead uses 4 firsts to trade for Trae or Garland for the ‘honor” of paying them 35+ when they have the same archetype as Dilly who allows you to keep all your picks and majority of cap space.

I don’t think SA is going to do that however thank goodness. I agree with Chump about Spurs plan. Just hoping they sign 2 quality vets that can shoot and play and force some guys down the rotation
as somebody who loves dilly

same archetype isnt a guarantee that he'll be anywhere near as good (even though i like his chances, personally)

[DPG21920]

as somebody who loves dilly

same archetype isnt a guarantee that he'll be anywhere near as good (even though i like his chances, personally)

Sure, but not having to pay him 35M + give up 4 firsts more than reflects that risk and if you drafted Dilly to see how good he was because you are ok with that archetype then you can still trade for Trae or Garland if you dont like what you see because you still have plenty of picks etc…

[DAF86]

probably because everybody was justifiably screeching about trading the #8 pick and in the midst of all that you decide a post a thread telling people to relax and be patient

I forgot the art of reading is going extinct, tbh. :lol

[spurraider21]

I forgot the art of reading is going extinct, tbh. :lol
kind of. i just think your timing was poor :lol

[Obstructed_View]

:lmao it's difficult to comprehend the cascading meltdowns that would be triggered by keeping a lottery pick in Austin.
Well God forbid someone has a meltdown. Sure a good thing the Spurs shit away a lottery pick to prevent that. Could have been a disaster.

[scott]

I don't think the timing is poor or the thought is wrong in a vacuum, the main problem is that it's caught up in the overall patience grift that this front office is pulling off. It's such a perfect con - just convince people to be patient ad infinitum. If you could pull it off with some kind of real estate investment scheme, you'd be filthy rich (also a criminal, but those are just details).

[Obstructed_View]

I forgot the art of reading is going extinct, tbh. :lol
Lol you make a massive cope post right after the Spurs trade away a lottery pick and blame people's reading comprehension when you get called out.

What exactly were you telling people to chill out about, if it wasn't people being angry at trading the Dilly pick? There must have been some other issue that people were freaking out about for you to be telling everyone to be patient.

Right?

[scott]

Hey... speaking of real estate investment schemes...

Spurs asking the city and county to foot 80% of the bill for the second-most expensive stadium in the league. https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/spurs-proposed-san-antonio-arena-would-cost-12-billion-making-it-nbas-second-priciest-34925290

Makes perfect sense for one of the worst teams in the league the last 5 years to have the highest paid FO and second-most expensive stadium, right? Good thing the Spurs are pinching pennies on their roster, so they can chip in that 20%.

[ChumpDumper]

Well God forbid someone has a meltdown. Sure a good thing the Spurs shit away a lottery pick to prevent that. Could have been a disaster.There will always be a base level of meltdown in ST. It's interesting to see how long it takes for most to calm down after a flare up like this draft.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey... speaking of real estate investment schemes...

Spurs asking the city and county to foot 80% of the bill for the second-most expensive stadium in the league. https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/spurs-proposed-san-antonio-arena-would-cost-12-billion-making-it-nbas-second-priciest-34925290

Makes perfect sense for one of the worst teams in the league the last 5 years to have the highest paid FO and second-most expensive stadium, right? Good thing the Spurs are pinching pennies on their roster, so they can chip in that 20%.

That's just pro sports. I'd say the tourists are lucky the Spurs are paying that much.

[DAF86]

Lol you make a massive cope post right after the Spurs trade away a lottery pick and blame people's reading comprehension when you get called out.

What exactly were you telling people to chill out about, if it wasn't people being angry at trading the Dilly pick? There must have been some other issue that people were freaking out about for you to be telling everyone to be patient.

Right?

Dude, this post is from the 1st page, just a couple of minutes after the OP, before supossedly getting "called out" :lol


BTW, this is why the Dilly trade sucks major ass, tbh. He would have made another season of "internal growth" so much more fun and exciting.

I understand the timing might have messed with the understanding of the message, but if people took the time to read anything other than the title of the thread, they should have known where I was going with it.

I'm not coping for shit, nor am I excusing the FO for the retarded trades they made during draft days. I was just stating my preference of being patient this upcoming season, and it wasn't as much a message for the rest of my fellow SpursTalkers but more towards the FO, because all this cap saving and future assets acquiring moves might indicate that a move is near and I fear is something stupid like trading for Garland. That's it. That's all there is to it. I wasn't coping, I wasn't sniffing. Anyone that read any of my comments regarding the Dilly and Furphy trades in other threads (and even on this same fucking thread :lol) knew how I felt about it.

[J_Paco]

Don't worry. A player as competitive as Jimmy Butler who has been to two finals in 5 years, would never ever play for a garbage ass organization like the Spurs who are more concerned with kicking the can down the road than winning basketball games.

If you ever saw a news article that said San Antonio Spurs trade for Jimmy Butler, the next article you would see would say "Jimmy Butler refuses to report because the Spurs are one of the 4 worst teams in the nba with no chance to do anything but loose their franchise player in 4 years"

I always fine this phenomenon of undesirable groups or people, and that what the Spurs are, an undesirable group, take a stance of "I would never want this person around" or "I never want this thing." It's like when a morbidly obese woman says I would never date this type of person. Bitch you weigh 330 pounds, you don't have to worry about dating anyone because no one wants you.:lol

Spurs fans are always like "I don't want this player who has had some success in the nba because of blah blah blah." Meanwhile the last 10 times that player played the Spurs he won 9 of the games, and he is already telling his agent to block Brian Wright number.:lol

Sure buddy, whatever you say.:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:

Two time Finals loser and consistent bridge burner Jimmy Butler is really gonna prove me wrong, put his ego to the side and win a championship in spite of what I think of him.

I don't believe in all the 'character above all' BS, sometimes you need guys with an edge to win. My issue is that when things get tough, Jimmy Butler starts running his mouth, burning bridges and 'big timing' his younger teammates. If you want a guy like that as the veteran of the Spurs locker room, then you should probably just root for whatever dumbass team trades for him.

[Obstructed_View]

Dude, this post is from the 1st page, just a couple of minutes after the OP, before supossedly getting "called out" :lol



I understand the timing might have messed with the understanding of the message, but if people took the time to read anything other than the title of the thread, they should have known where I was going with it.

I'm not coping for shit, nor am I excusing the FO for the retarded trades they made during draft days. I was just stating my preference of being patient this upcoming season, and it wasn't as much a message for the rest of my fellow SpursTalkers but more towards the FO, because all this cap saving and future assets acquiring moves might indicate that a move is near and I fear is something stupid like trading for Garland. That's it. That's all there is to it. I wasn't coping, I wasn't sniffing. Anyone that read any of my comments regarding the Dilly and Furphy trades in other threads (and even on this same fucking thread :lol) knew how I felt about it.
Fair enough. I stand corrected. It was, at worst, not the greatest timing. So I guess you're right: angry fans tend not to read as clearly as they should. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

There will always be a base level of meltdown in ST. It's interesting to see how long it takes for most to calm down after a flare up like this draft.

Absolutely true. When you have fans invested enough to hang out on a fan page, someone is always going to be outraged about something. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

That's just pro sports. I'd say the tourists are lucky the Spurs are paying that much.

Yep. If SA doesn't want to foot that bill, Seattle or Vegas will.

[BackHome]

I am over it and down with the tank train in 2025 :lma - I just pray the Draft Gods will gift us another blessing and we can come out of it with some real talent to seriously begin the rebuild

[Obstructed_View]

I am over it and down with the tank train in 2025 :lma - I just pray the Draft Gods will gift us another blessing and we can come out of it with some real talent to seriously begin the rebuild

The Spurs just told you that they don't need talent unless they can find it in the back half of the draft on a 2-way contract.