Is Castle replacing Tre or Champagnie in the starting lineup?

[C-Dub]

If you where PATFO, would you go,

Tre, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby

Or

Castle, Vassell, Champ, Sochan, Wemby

Or bring Castle of the bench to start the season

[lefty20]

Having Castle & Sochan out there together is already killing the spacing. Adding Tre to that mix is just asking opposing teams to blanket Vic with 3 players.

I understand wanting to maximize the in-game reps for Castle/Wemby combo. But you're setting them up for failure with that poor spacing.

[Chinook]

I don't think the should start. I think the Spurs should still acquire a starting forward and play Jones. But considering what Pop's thought of the PG spot, he would 100 percent start Castle there rather than SF.

[objective]

I'm looking forward to 20 games of Castle proving he's not a point guard while shooting 20% from 3, followed by another 10 games of putrid Branham starts before a reluctant return to Jones to finish with about 33 wins

Then they'll draft the next terrible shooting fake point guard bricklayer with their own pick, and Atlanta's pick, which will be between 12 and 18 will be dumped for 3 future seconds and another 2030 swap.

[Leetonidas]

I'm looking forward to 20 games of Castle proving he's not a point guard while shooting 20% from 3, followed by another 10 games of putrid Branham starts before a reluctant return to Jones to finish with about 33 wins

Then they'll draft the next terrible shooting fake point guard bricklayer with their own pick, and Atlanta's pick, which will be between 12 and 18 will be dumped for 3 future seconds and another 2030 swap.

:lmao sad part is how dead on this probably will be

[MultiTroll]

https://news4sanantonio.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/768/center/80/c176b4c5-6d2c-4a26-8aef-13f310c8ff42-medium16x9_905744460612x612.jpg
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.sxK9hagUfxvsmcc3TiL61gHaDt?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain

[spurraider21]

I think they are going to try to make him a point guard. It’s also not really fathomable to have the anti-gravity of Sochan/castle playing together too much, let alone with Tre in addition to them.

[scott]

Well in the OP's question he said I'm PAFTO, so my SL is probably Osman, Branham, Champagnie, Sochan, Wemby.

[3&D_TBH]

Tre is an obvious backup tbh. So Castle, Vassell, Wemby, Sochan, and Keldon (until we have better)

[exstatic]

We could wait to see what the roster looks like. Of course, what fun would that be?

[scott]

For the record, even though I like Castle the wing prospect more than Castle the PG prospect, I'm actually to see him get a little run at PG.

[BacktoBasics]

Here’s how I see it. Castle and Sochan isn’t that big of a problem. Tre, Castle and Sochan is a much bigger concern. I think Castle will actually pair up nicely with Sochan. Seems those two would work in transition and Castle kicks out on the drive pretty well. Good lob combo and two defensive disruptors.

If Tre is on the floor with Castle and Sochan then one of those three will become a bigger liability because they’ll pick their poison on who to leave open on rotation and it becomes a much lower percentage when you got three guys who aren’t legitimate shooters.

This team is a work in progress and this isn’t as big of a problem as people make it out to be. Obviously this is worked out as the make up of this team evolves.

Everyone knows a more dynamic PG or shot creator with range is gonna be a primary focus going forward in drafts, FA and overall development of this roster.

[objective]

I think they are going to try to make him a point guard. It’s also not really fathomable to have the anti-gravity of Sochan/castle playing together too much, let alone with Tre in addition to them.

There's going to be so much anti-gravity next year that DARPA will make a $100 million dollar investment into Spurs Sports & Entertainment llc

[Seventyniner]

We could wait to see what the roster looks like. Of course, what fun would that be?

Yeah, too early to speculate on starting lineups since free agency hasn't started. But last year shows that the Spurs are totally willing to punt their cap space for even more picks and swaps.

[scott]

Here’s how I see it. Castle and Sochan isn’t that big of a problem. Tre, Castle and Sochan is a much bigger concern. I think Castle will actually pair up nicely with Sochan. Seems those two would work in transition and Castle kicks out on the drive pretty well. Good lob combo and two defensive disruptors.

If Tre is on the floor with Castle and Sochan then one of those three will become a bigger liability because they’ll pick their poison on who to leave open on rotation and it becomes a much lower percentage when you got three guys who aren’t legitimate shooters.

This team is a work in progress and this isn’t as big of a problem as people make it out to be. Obviously this is worked out as the make up of this team evolves.

Everyone knows a more dynamic PG or shot creator with range is gonna be a primary focus going forward in drafts, FA and overall development of this roster.

I don't think Castle and Sochan will be a problem together in 2024-25, because we're apparently soft tanking again anyway. But eventually if we're going to be a good team (with those guys on it), one of them will need to be at least a 36% 3P shooter, and the other at least 34%.

I hopeful we can see both of them elevate to 33% this year. Castle is starting from a much better place than Sochan did.

[SpurSpike]

A point gaurd that can shoot still eludes us. Castle should start the season on the bench but they should have ended the season with Dillingham, Vassel, Castle, Sochan, Wemby...

2 shooters one with handles, 2 defenders and the alien.

[mystargtr34]

Castle-Vassell-Keldon-Sochan-Wemby

Keldon can start now because Castle and Sochan have the perimeter defense mostly covered.

Try sign a FA forward who can space the floor like a Tobias Harris and move Keldon back to bench.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't think Castle and Sochan will be a problem together in 2024-25, because we're apparently soft tanking again anyway. But eventually if we're going to be a good team (with those guys on it), one of them will need to be at least a 36% 3P shooter, and the other at least 34%.

I hopeful we can see both of them elevate to 33% this year. Castle is starting from a much better place than Sochan did.

Agreed.

I think Castle will hit 3pt development hard and with any luck that issue is minimized. He’s not gonna be Reed Shepard but I think he’s got the right state of mind to get that liability addressed.

[Big Empty]

I'm looking forward to 20 games of Castle proving he's not a point guard while shooting 20% from 3, followed by another 10 games of putrid Branham starts before a reluctant return to Jones to finish with about 33 wins

Then they'll draft the next terrible shooting fake point guard bricklayer with their own pick, and Atlanta's pick, which will be between 12 and 18 will be dumped for 3 future seconds and another 2030 swap.lmfao spot on

[TD 21]

I'd rather trade for Brogdon (presuming the cost is reasonable which I'd define as Graham, Bassey, Wesley, Hornets 1st and maybe a 2nd(s) than sign Harris.

Not only do I not want to be locked in for probably 3 years to a declining, less athletic version of Gay, but Brogdon is a better shooter, ball hander and play maker than Harris.

He's also big enough all around to tussle with wings when Castle has to crossmatch to defend the POA.

[onechance87]

im hoping to see major improvement in sochan 3 point shot.This is year 3 for him,Gotta be some type of improvement for him.

[SpursFan86]

im hoping to see major improvement in sochan 3 point shot.This is year 3 for him,Gotta be some type of improvement for him.

In his defense, he made some large strides in year 2…going from 25% as a rookie to 31% as a sophomore is meaningful. That being said, his shot still just looks so broke :lol I’d love for him to make another leap and become a ~35% guy from deep but I’m not going to hold out hope.

I think you have to go Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby. Other option would be Tre/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby and have Castle play a 6th man type role where he still gets lots of minutes with Vassell/Wemby. This is probably the best way to actually win games tbh but guessing they’ll want to start Castle for development purposes and I don’t mind that.

Would still love an upgrade over Champagnie. No fucking reason he should be starting for any NBA team :lol

[Arcadian]

Bold of you to assume he'll be a starter.

[scott]

In his defense, he made some large strides in year 2…going from 25% as a rookie to 31% as a sophomore is meaningful. That being said, his shot still just looks so broke :lol I’d love for him to make another leap and become a ~35% guy from deep but I’m not going to hold out hope.

I think you have to go Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby. Other option would be Tre/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby and have Castle play a 6th man type role where he still gets lots of minutes with Vassell/Wemby. This is probably the best way to actually win games tbh but guessing they’ll want to start Castle for development purposes and I don’t mind that.

Would still love an upgrade over Champagnie. No fucking reason he should be starting for any NBA team :lol

He fell of big time in calendar year 2024 as his volume increased though, which is the concern for me. I actually think he's given way too much credit for his shot improving last year, his overall % is really inflated by two good months, the best of which was really low volume.

Sochan 3P shooting by month last season:



Month
Games
Attempts/Game
3P%


Oct
4
2.0
25.0%


Nov
14
2.1
46.7%


Dec
14
2.9
32.5%


Jan
16
3.5
37.5%


Feb
12
3.0
19.4%


Mar
14
4.1
22.8%

[Knoxxx]

https://athlonsports.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/inside-spurs/news/stephon-castle-expected-to-play-point-guard-for-the-san-antonio-spurs

Also a paywall express news article says Castle to play PG.

[VBM]

Bold of you to assume he'll be a starter.

Bad draft or not, he's the 4th overall pick, and the only incumbents in his way are Tre and Julian. Let him get his reps.

[Knoxxx]

Probably dumb to assume he’s not going to be a starter. What do we have to lose, without having any playoff expectations?

[Ddm5]

Since most of you are already jumping off the cliff, I'm gonna add a little fuel to your fires...

Castle, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan, Wemby

Have a nice day!

[Mr. Body]

Since most of you are already jumping off the cliff, I'm gonna add a little fuel to your fires...

Castle, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan, Wemby

Have a nice day!

I would take DDR for a year or so. He'd provide the offense with more structure and wouldn't need to be around forever.

[SpursFan86]

He fell of big time in calendar year 2024 as his volume increased though, which is the concern for me. I actually think he's given way too much credit for his shot improving last year, his overall % is really inflated by two good months, the best of which was really low volume.

Sochan 3P shooting by month last season:



Month
Games
Attempts/Game
3P%


Oct
4
2.0
25.0%


Nov
14
2.1
46.7%


Dec
14
2.9
32.5%


Jan
16
3.5
37.5%


Feb
12
3.0
19.4%


Mar
14
4.1
22.8%




I mean I understand your point and I already conceded I’m not totally excited about the improvement because his jumper still looks broken and unreliable…but improvement is improvement IMO. Even if you want to focus on month-by-month %s instead of overall season averages:

As a rookie: 1 month shooting >30%, 4 months shooting below 25%
As a sophomore: 3 months shooting >30%, 2 months shooting below 25%

Not trying to make it seem like he took some massive step, but I do think the improvement is worth calling out. Hopefully he can build upon it and take another step forward next year…but again, I’m personally not super optimistic.

[TekXX]

Anything that's going to lose us the most games so sure throw Castle in as starter, lots of Sochan too. We're building threw the draft, until we don't like the draft, then we're doing nothing.

[wildbill2u]

Before we crwon Castle as a starter let's look at him in summer League. Of course he will probably be playing with all those unknowns that the Spurs added to the roster during the year plus some of the usual bench players who will get a final look before decisions are made about possible trades and free agents.

[SpursDynasty85]

Tre, Devin, Castle, Sochan, Wemby to start the game. Castle, vassel, Johnson, Sochan, Wemby to finish games.

[couchman]

I expect Castle to begin the season on the bench getting 15 mpg.
He will take a while to look good imo.Guards take longer to adjust, and the shooting weakness is documented…
In fact, I expect people here to be calling him a bust for at least a year.
The shot and his shooting confidence are broken and need to be rebuilt from scratch.
The reality is that his archetype has a high bust potential.
He does so many other things well that it will be worth the investment IF the shooting works out, but let’s get real, he won’t be a good player for a while.
Strap in for the ride or get off now


I’m rooting for the kid and will be thrilled if he proves me wrong and take the league by storm anytime before year 4

[Rosewood]

:lol the crybaby bullshit in every thread is already old.

[Mr. Body]

Before we crwon Castle as a starter let's look at him in summer League. Of course he will probably be playing with all those unknowns that the Spurs added to the roster during the year plus some of the usual bench players who will get a final look before decisions are made about possible trades and free agents.

Having to play with the Spurs' SL crowd of nobodies after playing at UConn may make him quit basketball.

[LeBowen]

Before we crwon Castle as a starter let's look at him in summer League. Of course he will probably be playing with all those unknowns that the Spurs added to the roster during the year plus some of the usual bench players who will get a final look before decisions are made about possible trades and free agents.

Summer League doesn't mean shit, even Wemby had a bad game in SL.

Castle will be the starting point guard on the opening night, not even up for debate, imo.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think he's gonna start. Maybe I'm too bullish, but I think people are severely underrating how good he is.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I think he's gonna start. Maybe I'm too bullish, but I think people are severely underrating how good he is.

Not just underrating, but it's obvious PATFO is fully onboard with big point guard plan.

What I'm interested in is to see if Jeremy and Castle will be starting together. That would be just horrible for spacing.
Hopefully we can upgrade Keldon and move Jeremy into that sixth man role.

[Mr. Body]

Not just underrating, but it's obvious PATFO is fully onboard with big point guard plan.

What I'm interested in is to see if Jeremy and Castle will be starting together. That would be just horrible for spacing.
Hopefully we can upgrade Keldon and move Jeremy into that sixth man role.

Agreed, my only question is fit, not ability.

[The Truth #6]

My personal uneducated opinion is that the front office already see Castle is part of their core, they scouted him extensively, they love him and it's all set. So really they're just looking for a small forward to replace champagne. I don't know for sure but I kind of believe that's how they look at it. They like their young players.

[J_Paco]

Tre is an obvious backup tbh. So Castle, Vassell, Wemby, Sochan, and Keldon (until we have better)

Unless they sign an upgrade and move Keldon for extra draft capital, then I suspect Champagnie will be the starter at SF. I think Julian is better suited in a complimentary, back up role but the Spurs need a player with his size and shooting ability in the SL.

I suspect the starting line up will be Castle - Vassell - Champagnie - Sochan - Wembanyama from day one.

[z0sa]

:lol imagine "tanking" all year to get a sixth or possibly even seventh man off the bench (Keldon would be 6th). This opinion is based on the current roster. Better NOT be true, he better be starting and we're going to deal with the fallout of picking a guy who can't shoot. That simple, or the Spurs are simply trash idiots who don't know what they're doing when they traded away a top3, possibly top1 shooter in the draft.

[Excessive Egotist]

I'd guess he runs point at summer league but the team won't make a decision on his position until training camp.

The main issue is that if you want him to start, he needs to play point because there is no world in which a lineup that features Sochan, Castle, and Jones will play together.

If Spurs intend to start Castle at wing, we will sign a starting quality floor spacing point over the summer.

[Mr. Body]

Castle-Vassell-Champagnie-Sochan-Wemby sounds right.

Champ still suffers from confidence or "I shouldn't be doing anything" issues. When he lets fly, he can be effective. Not a starter, but he can soak up the minutes for now.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Branham there, though, depending on if he makes another step this summer.

[spurraider21]

if castle starts at point, i still think shampenny should start. he is a better and more willing shooter than KJ, and i guess the bench could still use a primary scorer in keldon. hopefully we can further upgrade at that spot during FA

[baseline bum]

We could wait to see what the roster looks like. Of course, what fun would that be?

IDK the Dillingham trade seems more like them loading up to make a trade in a year or two as opposed to now. Probably have no interest in trading for Dejounte or Young now with Castle in hand and short of Booker becoming available after a Durant trade to Houston I don't see any good reason to make a big trade now where they'd have to give up at least one of the 2025 picks.

[jjspur]

The spurs started Sochan last year without any experience and it was pretty much a disaster. Castle at least has some experience at the position in high school and at UCONN. Lets see what he does in summer league before we pronounce him Sochan 2.0 .

[J_Paco]

Castle-Vassell-Champagnie-Sochan-Wemby sounds right.

Champ still suffers from confidence or "I shouldn't be doing anything" issues. When he lets fly, he can be effective. Not a starter, but he can soak up the minutes for now.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Branham there, though, depending on if he makes another step this summer.

I have way more confidence in Blake continuing his improvement as a secondary playmaker/ball handler (needs to get that shooting right, first and foremost) over Malachi magically becoming competent on defense and not a 'black hole' on offense.

[J_Paco]

The spurs started Sochan last year without any experience and it was pretty much a disaster. Castle at least has some experience at the position in high school and at UCONN. Lets see what he does in summer league before we pronounce him Sochan 2.0 .

Right, he at the very least can share ball handling and playmaking duties with Devin, plus he's an actual guard/wing that understands how to play/set up teammates in a complex Motion offense.

Sochan was a disaster mostly cause he has/had no business being the offensive initiator or primary ball handler of a NBA team.

[baseline bum]

Summer League doesn't mean shit, even Wemby had a bad game in SL.


LOL that 2/13 first game and everyone on the youtube highlights saying Spurs should have taken Scoot :lmao

Though Tony Parker's summer league was pretty impressive and all of a sudden realizing the Spurs might have gotten a 19 year-old allstar. Even my Laker fan friends were saying that dude's gonna be an allstar after that summer league. Seattle offering Payton for TP after like two summer league games was funny.

[Mr. Body]

The spurs started Sochan last year without any experience and it was pretty much a disaster. Castle at least has some experience at the position in high school and at UCONN. Lets see what he does in summer league before we pronounce him Sochan 2.0 .

Just want to say everyone loved Sochan his first year. Then he was forced to play PG and now everyone hates him.

Let's come to the middle a little, yeah? Swaying with the masses ain't a place to be.

[AFBlue]

If they see him as a lead initiator (staying away from "PG" title), then I suspect he gets the Tony Parker treatment. TP averaged 30 mpg and started 72 of his 77 games played.

[J_Paco]

If they see him as a lead initiator (staying away from "PG" title), then I suspect he gets the Tony Parker treatment. TP averaged 30 mpg and started 72 of his 77 games played.

Right, we should probably think of him as Ron Harper on the 90's Bulls.

Not really a PG, but another guard/wing that can defend and exploit mismatches with his size. And he shares offensive initiating/playmaking with Vassell (who did make good strides in that area, IMO).

[ChumpDumper]

After starting, what, three guys who never played the point because they were tall the Spurs aren't going to try the tall guy who has played the point and said he wants to play the point?

Seems unlikely. Sticking him at the 3 has to be a pretty disappointing plan B.

If Castle can get his 3pt shooting to around even post-AS Tre Jones levels (~40% on 3 attempts/game), he'll be a pretty impressive multiposition player.

[AFBlue]

This is also different than the Sochan "experiment" because it was never his role at any level. He showed good feel for the game, but it was always going to be a stretch for him to take the role full time. I assume it won't be an "experiment" with Castle and he'll be given a long leash to work through the growing pains.

[kxs783kms]

Castle
Vassell
Paul George
Sochan
Wemby

Is going to be a tough defensive lineup to beat.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXpz48bVGHM

I recommend everyone watch this who hasn't. It's high level, especially for a YT vid, but gets into the basic framework of UConn's sets. Says they have three basic movements - stagger screens, zoom action, pindowns. I wish I understood things at this level.

These actions set everything in motion. At that point, because Hurley has recruited guys with high level processing and has coached them very well, the players are allowed to improvise. See a defender turn his head? Cut. A defender hedges for the shot? Slip the screen.

It's relentlessly forcing defenses to make split second decisions over and over. Poor Stetson, those guys were helpless, but even the top teams like Alabama and Purdue start getting crushed because of the designs. They create feints, decoys, hide what they're doing, but it's also those variations where players are trusted to essentially call audibles.

This is why deciding whether Castle is a PG or not is beside the point. He is... and doesn't have to be. Put him everywhere on the court and he's making plays, because he understands these actions, where to make passes, where the defense is looking for one thing and doesn't expect the other. He's a strong passer, a good ballhandler, strong, a good cutter. Mostly, he gets this stuff at a very high level for a freshman. Very high.

And it's why he didn't want to go to a Charlotte, where he's going to be stuck in the corner watching shit happen. He wants to make these instant decisions. And it's not necessary to have the ball in his hands. At UConn he was deadly off-ball, as everyone was. It's designed for the off-ball players to be deadly. It's designed for one action to pull attention yet the real thing is happening somewhere else.

It's Spurs stuff. It's a perfect fit for him.

[Mr. Body]

It's basically the opposite of Harden pound-the-ball offense, or what Trae does.

And why they might take a player like Ingram, who can handle these reads.

[scott]

Granted, Castle is only the 6th Top 10 pick in Spurs history, but no Spurs top-10 pick has ever NOT been an opening day starter (Robinson, Elliott, Duncan, Sochan, Wembanyama).

[scott]

After starting, what, three guys who never played the point because they were tall the Spurs aren't going to try the tall guy who has played the point and said he wants to play the point?

Seems unlikely. Sticking him at the 3 has to be a pretty disappointing plan B.

If Castle can get his 3pt shooting to around even post-AS Tre Jones levels (~40% on 3 attempts/game), he'll be a pretty impressive multiposition player.

After trying to make non-PGs play PG, Pop has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and make the PG play SF.

[Payote75]

If you have PG13 in our lineup then I'm ok with castles growing pains what I can't watch is another team with the inability to make shots. If it's only vassell and Wemby they are as good as dead even with some improvement by sochan we'd be lucky to score 70 PTS lol. I love castle and all his intangibles but hopefully he works so hard and shocks everyone with at least an average jumper. Call chip enguland (spelling)

[KobesAchilles]

Our PG can’t shoot. Our SF can’t shoot. Out PF can’t shoot. And our Center will be our second be at shooter on the starting line up.

PATFO ruined this team. Better get Klay immediately. Move him to SF and then it will be a salvageable season. We will still suck but it will alleast be watchable.

[ChumpDumper]

Our PG can’t shoot. Our SF can’t shoot. Out PF can’t shoot. And our Center will be our second be at shooter on the starting line up.

PATFO ruined this team. Better get Klay immediately. Move him to SF and then it will be a salvageable season. We will still suck but it will alleast be watchable.

I think sucking isn't a thing they necessarily want to avoid next season.

[itzsoweezee]

The idea of Champagnie starting next season is very bleak stuff. It’s very likely this organization has no clue what it’s doing. We better see some trades this offseason with real players coming in

[SOMA Spur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXpz48bVGHM

I recommend everyone watch this who hasn't. It's high level, especially for a YT vid, but gets into the basic framework of UConn's sets. Says they have three basic movements - stagger screens, zoom action, pindowns. I wish I understood things at this level.

These actions set everything in motion. At that point, because Hurley has recruited guys with high level processing and has coached them very well, the players are allowed to improvise. See a defender turn his head? Cut. A defender hedges for the shot? Slip the screen.

It's relentlessly forcing defenses to make split second decisions over and over. Poor Stetson, those guys were helpless, but even the top teams like Alabama and Purdue start getting crushed because of the designs. They create feints, decoys, hide what they're doing, but it's also those variations where players are trusted to essentially call audibles.

This is why deciding whether Castle is a PG or not is beside the point. He is... and doesn't have to be. Put him everywhere on the court and he's making plays, because he understands these actions, where to make passes, where the defense is looking for one thing and doesn't expect the other. He's a strong passer, a good ballhandler, strong, a good cutter. Mostly, he gets this stuff at a very high level for a freshman. Very high.

And it's why he didn't want to go to a Charlotte, where he's going to be stuck in the corner watching shit happen. He wants to make these instant decisions. And it's not necessary to have the ball in his hands. At UConn he was deadly off-ball, as everyone was. It's designed for the off-ball players to be deadly. It's designed for one action to pull attention yet the real thing is happening somewhere else.

It's Spurs stuff. It's a perfect fit for him.

Enjoyed this video. Reminded me of an interview this year with Sean. He had asked Pop why they quit running certain plays that were gospel during the Timmy years. Pop said his current squad just couldn't grasp the concepts. Kind of depressing. Hoping Castle's BBIQ is as high as advertised and we can continue to surround him and Wemby with guys who can run these advanced sets.

[Joseph Kony]

I would start Castle at PG day one and see how it goes. Keep Champ in the lineup or start Keldon instead. After 30 games we should know whether he has PG chops or not

[onechance87]

I would start Castle at PG day one and see how it goes. Keep Champ in the lineup or start Keldon instead. After 30 games we should know whether he has PG chops or not

agreed

[Mr. Body]

Enjoyed this video. Reminded me of an interview this year with Sean. He had asked Pop why they quit running certain plays that were gospel during the Timmy years. Pop said his current squad just couldn't grasp the concepts. Kind of depressing. Hoping Castle's BBIQ is as high as advertised and we can continue to surround him and Wemby with guys who can run these advanced sets.

The ability to process the court and systems might have played into the draft choices. I'm not sure Dillingham is more than an instinctive player and Furphy wasn't a great creator or passer, for example.

[Pauleta14]

It'll all depend on how secure he is with the ball more than his offensive production.

I can also see PATFO starting him straight away, especially if Tre is the only other option on the roster.

I just don't want to see another season with Tre starting, he has zero connexion with Victor

[Mr. Body]

I like Tre, who will be a great backup, but Castle will provide everything he does plus. And one of those plusses is getting the big man the ball.

[KobesAchilles]

I think sucking isn't a thing they necessarily want to avoid next season.
We are gonna suck either way. I just want the season to be watchable during the 24 non-Wemby minutes. Imagine. Castle kicks out to Champ who is wide open and clanks. Kick out to Sochan who clanks. Beautiful ball movement who hits a wide open castle who clanks the open 3. Collins with clanking wide open 3s. The Spurs might have the worst shooting team of the last decade. Great job PATFO

[thOOdee]

No question, no matter how well sochan plays D, I think spurs start to test the waters if his 3 pt shot doesn't miraculously improve.

[BatManu20]

Granted, Castle is only the 6th Top 10 pick in Spurs history, but no Spurs top-10 pick has ever NOT been an opening day starter (Robinson, Elliott, Duncan, Sochan, Wembanyama).

He'll definitely start tbh. Should start him at the Point for a while and see what we have there and if he's capable, and I think that's what Pop will do.

[BatManu20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXpz48bVGHM

I recommend everyone watch this who hasn't. It's high level, especially for a YT vid, but gets into the basic framework of UConn's sets. Says they have three basic movements - stagger screens, zoom action, pindowns. I wish I understood things at this level.

These actions set everything in motion. At that point, because Hurley has recruited guys with high level processing and has coached them very well, the players are allowed to improvise. See a defender turn his head? Cut. A defender hedges for the shot? Slip the screen.

It's relentlessly forcing defenses to make split second decisions over and over. Poor Stetson, those guys were helpless, but even the top teams like Alabama and Purdue start getting crushed because of the designs. They create feints, decoys, hide what they're doing, but it's also those variations where players are trusted to essentially call audibles.

This is why deciding whether Castle is a PG or not is beside the point. He is... and doesn't have to be. Put him everywhere on the court and he's making plays, because he understands these actions, where to make passes, where the defense is looking for one thing and doesn't expect the other. He's a strong passer, a good ballhandler, strong, a good cutter. Mostly, he gets this stuff at a very high level for a freshman. Very high.

And it's why he didn't want to go to a Charlotte, where he's going to be stuck in the corner watching shit happen. He wants to make these instant decisions. And it's not necessary to have the ball in his hands. At UConn he was deadly off-ball, as everyone was. It's designed for the off-ball players to be deadly. It's designed for one action to pull attention yet the real thing is happening somewhere else.

It's Spurs stuff. It's a perfect fit for him.

Spurs should offer the bag to Hurley once Pop hangs 'em up tbh. The opportunity to coach Wemby + Castle + whoever else we have in a couple years when we (hopefully) are starting to piece things together might be enticing enough to pry him away from UCONN. That'd be a home run hire. Would prefer that over Kerr or any of the other old heads we'd likely consider tbh.

[TD 21]

In about 25 years when the geezer finally retires, they'll obviously "keep it in the family".

I'd rather a cheap organization like this not splurge on a largely irrelevant position like head coach anyway . . . and yes, I'm aware there's no cap on them, but I still feel like the more they spend on that, the less they likely will in the area(s) that actually matter.

It's amazing to me that on a team with the guard play as atrocious as this, that people are seemingly fine with Castle, another player without a primary job description offensively ("short role" play making and cutting are secondary skills and this team lacks the play making and floor spacing to maximize them anyway) replacing Wesley in the rotation being the only change.

[BackHome]

Castle will start but I will say again they need to find Pops replacement and get the right people now rather then latter.

[Obstructed_View]

Is Castle replacing Tre or Champagnie in the starting lineup?

Yes, please.

[Obstructed_View]

Castle will start but I will say again they need to find Pops replacement and get the right people now rather then latter.
Ime should have been brought back the second Boston cut him loose. Don't think there's anyone else from Pop's tree that I'd want.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/duvaltodmv/status/1674090992524222466?s=46

[Knoxxx]

The idea of Champagnie starting next season is very bleak stuff. It’s very likely this organization has no clue what it’s doing. We better see some trades this offseason with real players coming in

I’m not a Champagnie homer but he’s a bargain basement option for us. Plays his 3 and D role, doesn’t need to see the ball much, 8’11” standing reach is fine size for a SF.

You may want to just pull for him to improve a bit rather than spend your life agitating on the negatives. Surely SF is a position we can easily target in the 25 draft. If we shoot all our missiles on an expensive SF option this off season, it is only costing us Cooper Flagg and Ace Bailey 2025 lotto balls.

Think big picture man, for a tiny second at least!

[SouthernFryd]

I think it's totally possible...that this team will even be worse than last year. It's all about Pop.

[Tyronn Lue]

Spurs could have won more games last year if they didn't experiment with Jeremy. They know this. Since no one even knew who was going 1st overall it's pretty safe to say if you're not making the playoffs it really doesn't matter, might as well develop what you can. I am hoping Victor comes back from this summer injury free and ready to start the season. I don't have any expectations above expecting the others to have gotten the memo (assuming it was sent) to include Victor in the offense.

I see no reason to not start Castle, other than the rookie wall.

[jjspur]

Hopefully the spurs let Castle show his stuff in Summer league. It may give an indication what his skills actually are, even if its against other rookie competition. We all know how conservative the spurs are. Oh he broke a nail - lets keep him out of summer league. Letting him play lots of minutes will give fans something to actually root for in this next uncertain season.

[Raven]

obviously he was drafted as a pg for positionless bball. Champagnie is going nowhere, he has showed significant improvement and there is no need to stunt his development when the tools are all there.

[Proxy]

Hoping it’s
PG - Castle
SG - Devin
SF - someone that can shoot
PF - Sochan
C- colins

[Proxy]

Luckily we got Chip

[itzsoweezee]

I’m not a Champagnie homer but he’s a bargain basement option for us. Plays his 3 and D role, doesn’t need to see the ball much, 8’11” standing reach is fine size for a SF.

You may want to just pull for him to improve a bit rather than spend your life agitating on the negatives. Surely SF is a position we can easily target in the 25 draft. If we shoot all our missiles on an expensive SF option this off season, it is only costing us Cooper Flagg and Ace Bailey 2025 lotto balls.

Think big picture man, for a tiny second at least!

If he played even passable defense, I’d be on board.

And this team is not tanking next season. If that’s what you’re hanging your hat (cooper flag lol), you’re going to be seriously disappointed

[SpursBills]

Maybe homerism/wishful thinking, but I think Champagnie is going to surprise some people this year. He'll still be the worst starting 3 in the league if he's asked to start, but I think this year he solidifies himself as a solid rotation guy as opposed to end-of-bench backup. He was playing way better than Keldon Johnson by the end of the year and his defense is decent for a backup 3. He went from a -2 player at the beginning of the season and steadily improved to where he was net neutral by season's end.

[Arcadian]

:lol imagine "tanking" all year to get a sixth or possibly even seventh man off the bench (Keldon would be 6th).

Honestly, that wouldn't be surprising at all. The NBA Draft is such a crapshoot, you can easily draft a lottery guy whose career ceiling is a bench player. Hell, you can draft a lottery guy who completely busts. It happens all the time.

Not saying Castle will bust, but just saying lottery picks in general can bust, and it's not even out of the ordinary.

[RC_Drunkford]

Prime example

1807078205641146749

[z0sa]

Honestly, that wouldn't be surprising at all. The NBA Draft is such a crapshoot, you can easily draft a lottery guy whose career ceiling is a bench player. Hell, you can draft a lottery guy who completely busts. It happens all the time.

Not saying Castle will bust, but just saying lottery picks in general can bust, and it's not even out of the ordinary.

Sure, but don't understand the point of you playing devil's advocate. You'd rather Castle fight Tre Jones, Wesley, et al for minutes? Why did we tank then?

[exstatic]

IDK the Dillingham trade seems more like them loading up to make a trade in a year or two as opposed to now. Probably have no interest in trading for Dejounte or Young now with Castle in hand and short of Booker becoming available after a Durant trade to Houston I don't see any good reason to make a big trade now where they'd have to give up at least one of the 2025 picks.

I think at least they’ll onboard a couple of vets like Houston did last year, although maybe shoot to not sign assholes.

[Arcadian]

Sure, but don't understand the point of you playing devil's advocate. You'd rather Castle fight Tre Jones, Wesley, et al for minutes? Why did we tank then?

Well it's not like we tanked specifically for Castle. He's just who we ended up with. We tanked with the hope that we could get help for Wemby, but whether Castle will be that guy is far from determined.

[J_Paco]

Sure, but don't understand the point of you playing devil's advocate. You'd rather Castle fight Tre Jones, Wesley, et al for minutes? Why did we tank then?

Castle - unless he's completely incapable of making perimeter shots and his defense doesn't fully translate - is a virtual lock to get big minutes, while Jones will either play beside in the starting lineup or be his primary backup.

Wesley could be paired with Tre or Malaki off the bench as the guard pairing, but I see Malaki and Blake competing against one another for minutes.

My money is on Blake emerging as the back up 2 guard, yet that is really contingent on his outside jumper coming along (as much as his defense and playmaking has).

[DAF86]

So, what now? Does he play SF? Does he come off the bench? Does he still start at PG and Paul comes off the bench? What happens with Tre on that case?

[DAF86]

I don't see Tre falling out of the rotation, tbh. This probably means Castle plays more as a wing than as a PG in his rookie season, tbh.

[C-Dub]

With the addition of CP3, it seems that Castle will be replacing Champagnie in the starting lineup.

[cutewizard]

Wemby
Paul
Markkanen
Cassell

Sochan or Castle

[Obstructed_View]

I’m not a Champagnie homer but he’s a bargain basement option for us. Plays his 3 and D role, doesn’t need to see the ball much, 8’11” standing reach is fine size for a SF.

You may want to just pull for him to improve a bit rather than spend your life agitating on the negatives. Surely SF is a position we can easily target in the 25 draft. If we shoot all our missiles on an expensive SF option this off season, it is only costing us Cooper Flagg and Ace Bailey 2025 lotto balls.

Think big picture man, for a tiny second at least!
Sorry, but calling a guy who plays no defense a 3 and D guy is kind of a homer take.

[CGD]

Prime example

1807078205641146749

And, still, some team will give him another contract

[Mr. Body]

And, still, some team will give him another contract

Mo Bamba somehow keeps getting contracts.

[Knoxxx]

Sorry, but calling a guy who plays no defense a 3 and D guy is kind of a homer take.

Correct, except that most think his defense is decent. I haven’t really noticed him one way or another on D so I don’t need to disagree with the consensus that he plays some passable level of D. When it comes to paying someone $30 million who is a marginal upgrade on him at ten times the cost, I’d like to see a bit more Champagnie first (and cowbell while we are at it).

[Obstructed_View]

Correct, except that most think his defense is decent. I haven’t really noticed him one way or another on D so I don’t need to disagree with the consensus that he plays some passable level of D. When it comes to paying someone $30 million who is a marginal upgrade on him at ten times the cost, I’d like to see a bit more Champagnie first (and cowbell while we are at it).
Not anybody who has seen him play.

[Knoxxx]

Not anybody who has seen him play.

I've seen him play, making your statement false single handedly.

Now there is an article saying Castle starts at the 2 and Vassell at the 3. I am not bothering to post it since it is obviously just an opinion piece rather than gospel.

[Obstructed_View]

I've seen him play, making your statement false single handedly.

Now there is an article saying Castle starts at the 2 and Vassell at the 3. I am not bothering to post it since it is obviously just an opinion piece rather than gospel.
Yeah, but we've established that you're a homer. I like Julian, but he is a fringe NBA player at best, and only because of his shooting. I hope he steps up this season, but he's on a rather long list of young Spurs that we all hope develops into contributors.

[SouthernFryd]

I don't think I've ever seen a worse use of 2 top 10 draft picks in NBA history.

[C-Dub]

CP3 (26mpg) - Jones (22mpg)
Vassell (34mpg) - Branham (18mpg)
Castle (27mpg) - Johnson (26mpg)
Sochan (28mpg) - Mamu (15mpg)
Wemby (34mpg) - Collins (18mpg)

[John B]

I think Champagnie was an experiment but he wasn’t starting material. Keldon is being mold as the Manu 6th man. Tre is a good backup PG where he should be. I suspect Castle will be playing SF, but should’ve opportunities to facilitate and learn from the point-god.

[J_Paco]

With CP3 in the fold that makes the starting line up a lot clearer. IIt would likely be Paul/Vassell/Castle/Sochan/Wembanyama with a combination of Tre/Malaki (or my preference of Blake)/Keldon/Champagnie (or Mamu)/Collins (or Bassey) off the bench.

I would love for them to retain Cedi while moving on from one or both of Keldon and Zach, but that might not be in the cards just yet.

[Raven]

yeah, no he is not.

[SpursFan86]

Very interested to hear peoples’ thoughts on this now. This thread was made before the start of FA, and with the addition of CP3/Barnes I think the decision will be a bit tougher.

I’m guessing it’ll be CP3/Vassell/Sochan/Barnes/Wemby to start the year. I know Castle coming off the bench will piss people off here, but I just don’t see them benching Sochan or Barnes for him out of the gate.

CP3 will inevitably miss games due to rest or legitimate injury, and isn’t going to be playing much more than 25 mpg anyways…so I think Castle will still get plenty of opportunity to play with the starters + land in ~25 mpg territory.

[Mr. Body]

Very interested to hear peoples’ thoughts on this now. This thread was made before the start of FA, and with the addition of CP3/Barnes I think the decision will be a bit tougher.

I’m guessing it’ll be CP3/Vassell/Sochan/Barnes/Wemby to start the year. I know Castle coming off the bench will piss people off here, but I just don’t see them benching Sochan or Barnes for him out of the gate.

CP3 will inevitably miss games due to rest or legitimate injury, and isn’t going to be playing much more than 25 mpg anyways…so I think Castle will still get plenty of opportunity to play with the starters + land in ~25 mpg territory.

I think that's what we'll see, and many combinations throughout the game. We should see Castle with Wemby, Castle with Paul, those sorts of things.

[BackHome]

It will be interesting to see of Paul is kept or is he going to be traded or let go to sign with a team looking to make a serious Playoff push. Will also have to wait if they decide to package Keldon, Collins, Blake, for a player and picks.

[mystargtr34]

I think to start the season it will be this.

Paul/Tre
Vassell/Castle
Sochan/Keldon
Barnes/Champ
Wemby/Zach

Barnes and Sochan will be interchangeable at the forward spots but Barnes will mostly guard the 4 man or bigger forward and Jeremy takes the quicker perimeter forward.

I can see a scenario where Castle starts instead of Barnes but the spacing with Sochan and Castle seems like it would be a problem.

Depending on how soon Castle develops then eventually he takes the starting PG spot once CP3 is traded to a contender.

[C-Dub]

CP3
Vassell
Castle
Sochan
Wemby

Tre
Branham
Keldon
Barnes
Collins

[rankingtear]

More than likely an upgraded lineup we saw last season with Barnes starting instead of Champ. Maybe KJ back to the 4 where he played his best season so far.