Summer League Grades: Spurs vs. Kings - July 7, 2024

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-kings-summer-league-2/

That was terrible basketball.

[Ice009]

Glad I didn't watch it then ;). Just about to read your grades instead. Thanks for posting.

Edit : Darn, not sure what to think about Kenny Trevino as the coach. I feel bad for him as I don't know if he's just lacking too much talent on the court, or just isn't a very good coach. Good luck to him anyway. I hope he and the team does well the rest of the way.

[Uriel]

Ingram is like a poor man's version of the idealized combo forward archetype in today's NBA. In order for him to make it in the NBA, he will have to improve in all areas of his game. If he doesn't, he would've been better off staying at Stanford, getting his degree, and leveraging his educational pedigree in corporate America.

In order to make it in the NBA as a second round pick, you usually have to have a niche, some skill you're elite at (a specialist, in other words), and develop the rest of your game from there. A poor man's generalist like Ingram will have a major uphill climb going forward.

[Raven]

Ingram is like a poor man's version of the idealized combo forward archetype in today's NBA. In order for him to make it in the NBA, he will have to improve in all areas of his game. If he doesn't, he would've been better off staying at Stanford, getting his degree, and leveraging his educational pedigree in corporate America.

In order to make it in the NBA as a second round pick, you usually have to have a niche, some skill you're elite at (a specialist, in other words), and develop the rest of your game from there. A poor man's generalist like Ingram will have a major uphill climb going forward.

if he gets his percentages to what they are projected to be, he should be just fine. Unlike the malaki's of the world, the middletons are very easy to put in a team.

[Mal]

Fire whole scouting deparment or whoever is responsible for putting out this roster. Bad drafting will finally catch with this team

[Thunder1]

Not sorry that I missed this one...

[exstatic]

Fire whole scouting deparment or whoever is responsible for putting out this roster. Bad drafting will finally catch with this team

? SL teams are generally bad. You’re usually grabbing guys off the street to fill out a roster. I think there are two draft picks on this team.

[Darkwaters]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-kings-summer-league-2/

That was terrible basketball.

I see some positives with Ingram but you really have to squint to see them. At this point a 2-way contract would be generous. Any discussion of actually putting him on the main roster should be over (if it ever got started).


? SL teams are generally bad. You’re usually grabbing guys off the street to fill out a roster. I think there are two draft picks on this team.

Yea, it's technically 3 picks. But Sidy and Ingram are both mid-late 2nd rounders. Castle is of course a top 5 pick.

But last night the only one that played was Ingram.

[Pauleta14]

1st game I miss in a while. Good call I see ^^

[timtonymanu]

Maybe Ingram figures it out and turns his game around. But he's a low 2nd round pick for a reason. I know people want him to be the next Danny Green but aside from Tre Jones, can you think of any Spur selected in that range that had a career that panned out? They didn't even pick him over the draft and stash Spanish guy.

[DPG21920]

Im still perplexed that Spurs continue to have so many non-shooting non-athletes in their pipeline


To walk away last draft with no shooters is wild to me.

[siraulo23]

easy decision to skip after hearing Castle wasnt playing

[RC_Drunkford]

just like the main team. Pop hates the 3-point shot. Furphy would've been the 2nd best player on the roster behind Castle, but we had to trade him for some cash $$$

[Russ]

The disastrous second round drafting of the last two years may be coming home to roost, even if on a small stage.

All the more perplexing because the Spurs had four second round picks, two of which were premiere top five in the second round.

[Uriel]

just like the main team. Pop hates the 3-point shot. Furphy would've been the 2nd best player on the roster behind Castle, but we had to trade him for some cash $$$
Imagine this SL team with Castle, Dillingham, and Furphy. *sigh*

[onechance87]

just terrible

[wildbill2u]

? SL teams are generally bad. You’re usually grabbing guys off the street to fill out a roster. I think there are two draft picks on this team.

So could they have put a team on the court that included Wesley, Mamu, bassey, branham, Champagnie, etc to give them a final look before cuts and waivers are made. I don't know but I'm sure you do

[Mugen]

Furphy was literally picked by them and was a good fit for this roster but of course they cheaped out :lol

[Darkwaters]

Maybe Ingram figures it out and turns his game around. But he's a low 2nd round pick for a reason. I know people want him to be the next Danny Green but aside from Tre Jones, can you think of any Spur selected in that range that had a career that panned out? They didn't even pick him over the draft and stash Spanish guy.

It's a fair point that most 2nd rounders (especially later ones) never do anything.

Looking at Spurs history over the last 20-30 years the players that have been at least moderately successful include:
Manu Ginobili (obviously) - 57th, 1999
Luis Scola - 55th, 2002
Dejuan Blair - 37th, 2009
Nando de Colo - 53rd, 2009
Chimezie Metu - 49th, 2018
Tre Jones - 41st, 2020

Some of the lack of success comes from the Spurs consistent desire over those years to draft guys that they could stash overseas. Even domestic players like Jaron Blossomgame and James Gist were stashes that didn't materialize. So history is certainly not on the side of Harrison Ingram.

But the growth and expansion of the D-League and now the creation of 2-way contracts has really made future development a lot more intriguing. There are better options going forward and I think Ingram probably has enough potential to sit on a 2-way for a season or two to see if he can develop his game. If not then so what? It's not much of a loss.

[LeBowen]

Furphy was literally picked by them and was a good fit for this roster but of course they cheaped out :lol

Furphy got a 4 year, $8.59 million guaranteed deal.

RC's ice-creams aren't going to buy themselves.

[Darkwaters]

Furphy was literally picked by them and was a good fit for this roster but of course they cheaped out :lol

I still don't get that move.

[jeebus]

Edit : Darn, not sure what to think about Kenny Trevino as the coach. I feel bad for him as I don't know if he's just lacking too much talent on the court, or just isn't a very good coach. Good luck to him anyway. I hope he and the team does well the rest of the way.

That's why folks like that get their start in summer league. The players suck, nothing counts or matters, and if you fuck up or aren't cut out for it, then no big deal.

[Kevin]

The Spurs have more second round picks than they can possibly roster over the next few years and the vast majority of them don't amount to anything. Bearing this in mind I'd be completely fine with attaching some second rounders to jettison Mal and Blake so we can keep Champ, Barlow and Bassey. Its not a bad use of second rounders because its not like Nunez or Ingram are doing anything anyway.

[montgod]

Yeah the summer league this year seems to be the worse I've seen it honestly. I probably won't watch if Castle or Sidy aren't playing. Castle does super well but the players can't convert any of his great passes atm. I'll give some grace to Sidy just coming off injury, but he doesn't look good at all like he did a yr ago. It's really bad where I can't even watch it unless I'm trying to see a player from another team to see how they do.

[BackHome]

The difference between early first to second round is like night and day hence why I am still kind of upset trading our 8th pick.

[bigfan]

P.U., they stunk, plain and simple.

[exstatic]

The disastrous second round drafting of the last two years may be coming home to roost, even if on a small stage.

All the more perplexing because the Spurs had four second round picks, two of which were premiere top five in the second round.

If you care about second rounders as roster assets, you’re doing it wrong. Examine those two seasons, and take that to the bank as the pattern going forward. They’ll sell/trade the first one, and the second will most likely be a two way. We have almost too many FIRST rounders to roster. Second rounders would really have virtually no chance.

[Darkwaters]

Exactly exstatic.

The primary utility of 2nd rounders is to facilitate trades (like the Graham salary dump, or as a contribution to the Harrison Barnes pickup) or to fill out the 2-ways. But to actually grab rosterable players? Pretty unusual. Dejuan Blair and Tre Jones are good examples of players that were drafted and immediately joined the main club and contributed. But their experiences are very atypical.

[Ice009]

Couldn't they have drafted Furphy, let him play in the summer league and showcase him to other teams, then trade him (or is this not allowed?). If Indiana gave him that big of a contract, I wonder if they would have given more had they seen him play well in the SL for the Spurs.

[onechance87]

Couldn't they have drafted Furphy, let him play in the summer league and showcase him to other teams, then trade him (or is this not allowed?). If Indiana gave him that big of a contract, I wonder if they would have given more had they seen him play well in the SL for the Spurs.

it seems we are getting second rounders just to sale them.We are just cheap and dont want to develop players anymore.Indiana got
the pick from us cause they are willing to pay and try to develop furphy.Guess will see how that goes in a couple of years.

[DAF86]

For a team that has sucked as much as the Spurs have for almost the entire decade, one would think their summer league team would be way better than it is. At what point should we worry about PATFO's inability to detect talent and, at the very least, not have the absolute worse summer league roster in the entire NBA by a huge distance? I remember some years ago when we had intersting prospects playing in these tournaments. Now even draft picks are completely underwhelming. Recent 2nd round picks have been atrocious, they need to get their head out of their asses and start doing a better job at selecting 2nd round talent, tbh.

[pad300]

Exstatic is right about our roster crunch. We got Wemby on essentially our first deliberate Tank season, which was really lucky, but the FO was not planning based on that stroke of luck. So they have accumulated many extra FRP's in the next three or so seasons. These get guaranteed contracts and roster spots. Unless we spend some on a major trade (eg Markkannen), we are pretty much full up on rookies for the immediate future. Thus, second round picks are a) trade bait or b) Draft and Stash, or c) close to unusable...

Which is why the Furphy thing doesn't bother me a bit. They definitely didn't want to give him a roster spot and ~$3 million of our cap space. I'm pretty sure Nunez was our target anyways, as he (I suspect) had already agreed to a draft and stash strategy. Trading down to get an extra $1 million out of Indy was just good business. The other thing we should be exploring is any kind of a deal to push seconds into future assets; 5 or 6 SRP's in the next few drafts in return for their 2031 FRP would be a great deal for us, and would give them some picks to fill bench slots on the cheap...

[spurraider21]

Furphy was literally picked by them and was a good fit for this roster but of course they cheaped out :lol
like dillingham, its probably the case that they picked Furphy specifically for Indiana. not necessarily the case that they were going to take Furphy for themselves and only then agreed to move him to Indy

[spurraider21]

Exstatic is right about our roster crunch. We got Wemby on essentially our first deliberate Tank season, which was really lucky, but the FO was not planning based on that stroke of luck. So they have accumulated many extra FRP's in the next three or so seasons. These get guaranteed contracts and roster spots. Unless we spend some on a major trade (eg Markkannen), we are pretty much full up on rookies for the immediate future. Thus, second round picks are a) trade bait or b) Draft and Stash, or c) close to unusable...

Which is why the Furphy thing doesn't bother me a bit. They definitely didn't want to give him a roster spot and ~$3 million of our cap space. I'm pretty sure Nunez was our target anyways, as he (I suspect) had already agreed to a draft and stash strategy. Trading down to get an extra $1 million out of Indy was just good business. The other thing we should be exploring is any kind of a deal to push seconds into future assets; 5 or 6 SRP's in the next few drafts in return for their 2031 FRP would be a great deal for us, and would give them some picks to fill bench slots on the cheap...
this is why taking Cissoko was poor planning. aside from the whole "he cant shoot" thing... they took a player at the beck end of the second round who wasnt eligible for a two-way deal. i mean sure we can waive him if we wanted to but his money for this year is guaranteed

[Das Texan]

Once I saw that Castle wasnt playing I quickly made the decision this game wasnt for me.

Seems like a top notch decision was made. This team is awful and only Castle makes this even remotely palatable to watch.

[timvp]

On one hand, I think a lot of the criticism is valid because the choices for this roster are pretty bad. Going with seven short guards and no tall centers is weird. Too many players who have no hope of even sniffing the NBA.

On the other hand, the Spurs were out arguably their five best summer league prospects: Castle, Cissoko, Duke, Gray and Minix. You take the top five players off any summer league team and it gets gross fast.

[exstatic]

it seems we are getting second rounders just to sale them.We are just cheap and dont want to develop players anymore.Indiana got
the pick from us cause they are willing to pay and try to develop furphy.Guess will see how that goes in a couple of years.

Would you rather draft and cut them? Because, I assure you, that’s what would happen if we selected all of the SRPs. We likely can’t even roster all of the first rounders we have in the chute.

:lol. You people are like the kid you take to the pet store for a puppy, and they want ALL of the puppies.

[Russ]

If you care about second rounders as roster assets, you’re doing it wrong. Examine those two seasons, and take that to the bank as the pattern going forward. They’ll sell/trade the first one, and the second will most likely be a two way. We have almost too many FIRST rounders to roster. Second rounders would really have virtually no chance.

Even accepting your argument, the Spurs haven't done very well with their later second round picks.

Last year they could have had GG Jackson at #44. Memphis took him at #45 as a two way as you suggest (although admittedly he didn't last as a two way, he ended up 2nd Team NBA All Rookie).

In other words, just because you resign yourself to two ways later in the second round doesn't mean you have to choose bad ones, like the Spurs have.

[onechance87]

Would you rather draft and cut them? Because, I assure you, that’s what would happen if we selected all of the SRPs. We likely can’t even roster all of the first rounders we have in the chute.

:lol. You people are like the kid you take to the pet store for a puppy, and they want ALL of the puppies.

why would i draft a player just to cut them.If they are flat out bad and dont have potential and not improving,Yeah cut their ass obviously.
But if they are decent and keep em like we did with tre jones.Its not that complicated my guy.

[TrainOfThought5]

it seems we are getting second rounders just to sale them.We are just cheap and dont want to develop players anymore.Indiana got
the pick from us cause they are willing to pay and try to develop furphy.Guess will see how that goes in a couple of years.

It’s like these guys have never seen money all before. We’re the Oakland A’s.

[palangi]

This franchise roster construction has been bad for years now. And it isn’t getting any better. Furphy was the perfect second round type pick. He had an elite skill in shooting and was 6’8”. But we wanted the 6’5” wing who can’t shoot.

It’s time for Pop to retire and for a change at GM.

[Mal]

? SL teams are generally bad. You’re usually grabbing guys off the street to fill out a roster. I think there are two draft picks on this team.

You basically know that - Branham sucks, Wesley sucks, Cissoko sucks, Ingram sucks, I will be very surprised Nunez will play in NBA at all.
Noone from this SL roster would be anywhere near g-league.

You have to put a roster, but come on, this team should be young and there is noone in 15-20 place in organisation worth developing.

[Dex]

On one hand, I think a lot of the criticism is valid because the choices for this roster are pretty bad. Going with seven short guards and no tall centers is weird. Too many players who have no hope of even sniffing the NBA.

On the other hand, the Spurs were out arguably their five best summer league prospects: Castle, Cissoko, Duke, Gray and Minix. You take the top five players off any summer league team and it gets gross fast.

Also...no one gives a shit about the Cali Classic. Pretty much a glorified pick-up game

Hopefully we come correct in Vegas.

[ChumpDumper]

You basically know that - Branham sucks, Wesley sucks, Cissoko sucks, Ingram sucks, I will be very surprised Nunez will play in NBA at all.

Noone from this SL roster would be anywhere near g-league.:lol like half of them already have been.

Relax guys. Save your bile for the regular season.

[exstatic]

Even accepting your argument, the Spurs haven't done very well with their later second round picks.

Last year they could have had GG Jackson at #44. Memphis took him at #45 as a two way as you suggest (although admittedly he didn't last as a two way, he ended up 2nd Team NBA All Rookie).

In other words, just because you resign yourself to two ways later in the second round doesn't mean you have to choose bad ones, like the Spurs have.

They were never going to choose GG. He has an absolute shit reputation.

[exstatic]

You basically know that - Branham sucks, Wesley sucks, Cissoko sucks, Ingram sucks, I will be very surprised Nunez will play in NBA at all.
Noone from this SL roster would be anywhere near g-league.

You have to put a roster, but come on, this team should be young and there is noone in 15-20 place in organisation worth developing.

Summer league rosters aren’t for development. They are warm bodies to put out on the court around the 1-3 players you ARE looking to develop.

They
Don’t
Matter.
Summer
League
Doesn’t
Matter.

[timvp]

On one hand, I think a lot of the criticism is valid because the choices for this roster are pretty bad. Going with seven short guards and no tall centers is weird. Too many players who have no hope of even sniffing the NBA.

On the other hand, the Spurs were out arguably their five best summer league prospects: Castle, Cissoko, Duke, Gray and Minix. You take the top five players off any summer league team and it gets gross fast.

No wonder no one would tell me where Gray was and/or why he wasn't playing. I couldn't figure out what could possibly make it a top secret. I halfway thought he Primo'ed someone by how suddenly it was like he never existed. Turns out, the Spurs were just using a loophole by trading a two-way player in order to satisfy the new "touch" rule in trades. Pretty brilliant, tbh :lol

[Mal]

Summer league rosters aren’t for development. They are warm bodies to put out on the court around the 1-3 players you ARE looking to develop.

They
Don’t
Matter.
Summer
League
Doesn’t
Matter.

But outside Castle, who was selected with 4 OA, there is noone worth developing. I dont care about SL results, the roster put there is just so bad and would make me thinking about whole scouting department.

[exstatic]

But outside Castle, who was selected with 4 OA, there is noone worth developing. I dont care about SL results, the roster put there is just so bad and would make me thinking about whole scouting department.

Did you not even read the first sentence of the post you quoted?

[Mal]

Did you not even read the first sentence of the post you quoted?

Yes, I understood that, but later you wrote about looking for players to develop later on. There is noone like this there, Castle should be taken as far as they could from this team.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, I understood that, but later you wrote about looking for players to develop later on. There is noone like this there, Castle should be taken as far as they could from this team.

You only get one or two of those guys who aren't already on the team. That guy this year is probably Minix.