Spurs moves so far do not move the needle

[lebomb]

........for me. I see lots of publications that say we had an A to A+ off season so far. Two "older" veterans past their prime added to Wemby, Sochan and Vessel do not say much in my opinion. Draft picks in 2030 and 2031 do not say anything in my opinion. I thought we would at least get a prime highend player in a trade by now. No Markkanen, no Brandon Ingram.......nothing. Yes, Im excited about Castle but he is a rookie. I just wish we could have done more using assets we have with picks and KJ available. :wakeup

[SpursFan86]

It was never likely that the Spurs were going to try and go all in this year. You don’t go from 22 wins to a contender in one offseason. I wouldn’t give them an A+ but it was a pretty damn solid offseason IMO. At the same time, I think it’s absurd to argue that they should intentionally be as bad as possible to tank for the 2025 draft. They made some clear incremental improvements, added some valuable assets down the road, and mostly kept their cap space free going forward to allow for flexibility. No, they’re not a playoff team now but they should at least play more structured and competitive basketball this season which is a step in the right direction.

Now, if they have this same sort of offseason the next year or beyond then it’ll be less acceptable. At some point it’ll be time to leverage some of these picks into making a move that gets them contending again.

[LeBowen]

I just want to hear which players that were traded this offseason you think Spurs missed out on?
I still want Markkanen and I'll be really upset if he goes somewhere else for a reasonable price, but there weren't many players that were realistic targets Spurs missed out on.

My biggest concern is that Collins will be on the opening night roster.

[mookie2001]

All we need is a prime Bruce Bowen and a 92 Shaq and we're good.

[Spurs Homer]

Still have not done enough (or anything) to make up for giving away our #draft pick and possibly a future star -

to a rival -

for absolutely nothing until 2031...

[Mr. Body]

Folks consistently don't understand why they went out and got Paul and Barnes.

[rascal]

Spurs still not a playoff team and that's the best result towards building a dynasty, with the 25 draft with year.

[rascal]

Still have not done enough (or anything) to make up for giving away our #draft pick and possibly a future star -

to a rival -

for absolutely nothing until 2031...

Dillingham won't be as good as some still believe here at Spurstalk.

[Seventyniner]

The moves so far aren't meant to move the needle this year in terms of raw wins and losses. They were all made with the future in mind, both in terms of picks and swaps being years out, and late or end career vets that can pass on their accumulated knowledge.

I don't think the Spurs ever even thought about a pivot like the Rockets did last year.

[itzsoweezee]

........for me. I see lots of publications that say we had an A to A+ off season so far. Two "older" veterans past their prime added to Wemby, Sochan and Vessel do not say much in my opinion. Draft picks in 2030 and 2031 do not say anything in my opinion. I thought we would at least get a prime highend player in a trade by now. No Markkanen, no Brandon Ingram.......nothing. Yes, Im excited about Castle but he is a rookie. I just wish we could have done more using assets we have with picks and KJ available. :wakeup

Markkanen would be great. Is he even available? Several teams want him and he hasn’t been moved.

Ingram wants a max contract and isn’t a max level player. Giving max contracts to guys like that is a great way to sabotage your team’s future.

What else do you have in mind that the Spurs aren’t pursuing? The whole point is to stack assets so the team can be opportunistic when a valuable player becomes available. The spurs appear to be doing just that.

[Arguendo]

I’ve been very happy with the offseason, so far, but never expected them to swing for the fences coming off 22 wins with a roster filled with 20-24 y/

Relatively high chance we added to best prospect in the draft. Castle showed enough PG skills to be far less concerned about his shooting which doesn’t actually look broken.
Adding Paul & Barnes plugs most of the glaring holes in rotation & stabilizes the team, while adding first class vet presence & oncourt coaching. Both are competent shooters & Paul will not tolerate laziness & slopiness, he will dress these guys down & he has the All-Time stature to do that while Barnes brings champ experience. That will help a ton for development.

Vessel is a legit 19/4/4 on 6.5/.380 the last two years on garbage teams w/o a PG to help. He’s got room to grow, but right now is a legit #3.
Wemby is all world, already. There is a solid chance Castle is the PG of the future with legit #2 upside & a really high floor.
The third yr guys all need to show big improvement, but next season will be their first playing on a real team, rather than a dumpster fire.
The cap situation is good & we have tons of movable pieces- Keldon is a solid 6/7man bucket getter on a good K, Tre a high-end backup on a rookie deal, Barnes a very durable vet who hits 3s.

I never thought they were gonna blow their load this yr, with a 20y/o Wendy. They’ll look to start making moves around the trade deadline & next offseason, with 4 potential 1sts. Plus, while that Chi pick is a lot less likely now, the Cha pick is a lot more likely. BMiller is damn good, Cha had a very good offseason, & the East is trash.

I think our floor is now 33 wins= the post All-Star break pace, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see 38+ wins, which is crazy improvement in a loaded West.
IMO Castle has a good shot at ROY (if only because weak comp) your heading into next offseason with an MVP level guy & maybe thinking you already have your #2 & 3 guys but still have all of the assets (top 4 war chest) to go land another or maybe just sign Mark as a FA.
Not over yet, but I’m giving this offseason a B+

[drpill]

I think the Spurs are trying to thread the needle between making substantial improvements to team IQ and developing their core while still getting a pair of lottery picks next year in a draft they've been planning for for a long time. I wouldn't say they're tanking but it feels like their ideal situation is an accelerated learning season with Paul and Barnes, just missing out on the playoffs and hopefully getting lucky again with the lotto balls. They're not going to want or be able to hold Wemby back though, so who knows what ends up happening. If we end up a playoff or play-in team, that's a win too, so it's hard to go too wrong this year.

This season is less of an experiment than last year. It's Vic's team now and everyone knows it and a direction has been chosen. But there's still a lot of learning to do and a final season of evaluation for some of the guys on the edge of the roster.

[kht]

CP3 and Barnes are great pickups for a team that didn't know how to close games and hold leads last season. Not to mention, they fit a positional need.

[fafo]

2025 is objectively a better summer to push the chips in. We still got better too. Not much more to it than that.

[Arguendo]

This season is less of an experiment than last year. It's Vic's team now and everyone knows it and a direction has been chosen. But there's still a lot of learning to do and a final season of evaluation for some of the guys on the edge of the roster.
This, speaking of evaluations, pretty sure they need to make decision to exercise both Bran & Blake before the season, neither will be cheap at 4.96M & 4.72M for 25-26. Kinda hoping they find someone/anyone who’s willing to take a flyer on one. The guard rotation has a lot less minutes with Paul & Castle onboard. 1 or 2 of Tre/Bran/Blake being shipped for (hopefully) an expiring wing helps the 25-26 cap & to balance the roster this season.

[LeBowen]

2025 is objectively a better summer to push the chips in.

We went over it in detail many times and it's not.
The only relevant free agent young enough and worth the money is Naz Reid.
Young stars all have long-term deals and even if they were to become available, we'd be looking at the biggest asking price ever.

[Davidicus]

The needle has been moved. Just not in obvious ways.

[sfernald]

Actually I do think we make the playin. I think the big guy in the center makes a huge jump upward and makes All NBA this year and gets DPOY and gets top five in MVP voting. I think with some decent vets and a star stud rookie #2 in castle who reminds everyone of Kawhi, they play really well. It all starts to come together. And the whole game now goes through Wemby with the help of Paul and Barnes. He absolutely dominates and they win at least 45 games.

[montgod]

Markkanen would be great. Is he even available? Several teams want him and he hasn’t been moved.

Ingram wants a max contract and isn’t a max level player. Giving max contracts to guys like that is a great way to sabotage your team’s future.

What else do you have in mind that the Spurs aren’t pursuing? The whole point is to stack assets so the team can be opportunistic when a valuable player becomes available. The spurs appear to be doing just that.

Just curious, what do you think Markkanen would want contract-wise? There is no doubt he's going to want a max as well and he hasn't played one full season his whole career.

[Spurs Homer]

Dillingham won't be as good as some still believe here at Spurstalk.

we both have the same amount of knowledge of that ^

zero.

[Arguendo]

Actually I do think we make the playin. I think the big guy in the center makes a huge jump upward and makes All NBA this year and gets DPOY and gets top five in MVP voting. I think with some decent vets and a star stud rookie #2 in castle who reminds everyone of Kawhi, they play really well. It all starts to come together. And the whole game now goes through Wemby with the help of Paul and Barnes. He absolutely dominates and they win at least 45 games.
Love the optimism but more than doubling wins is a TALL task. But otherwise agree, could easily see 38+ wins, Wemby AllNBA/MVP top 10. Lakers didn’t improve, GSW prolly worse, but Sac is better & MEM takes a huge jump, maybe Hou too. West is loaded
Pumped for next season!

[fafo]

We went over it in detail many times and it's not.
The only relevant free agent young enough and worth the money is Naz Reid.
Young stars all have long-term deals and even if they were to become available, we'd be looking at the biggest asking price ever.
The landscape is always changing and the Spurs are continuing to collect assets in the form of picks and trade friendly contracts. There's still time for a Markkanen trade as well, but I'm not going to mark a chapter of their downfall because they didn't trade for Lauri or Trae or whoever. A year of development with reliable vets is a good thing.

[exstatic]

Love the optimism but more than doubling wins is a TALL task. But otherwise agree, could easily see 38+ wins, Wemby AllNBA/MVP top 10. Lakers didn’t improve, GSW prolly worse, but Sac is better & MEM takes a huge jump, maybe Hou too. West is loaded
Pumped for next season!

Houston added two players last year who are really chuckle fucks, and jumped from 22 wins to 41.

Recipe:
Add a couple of veterans
Stop trying to lose on purpose
Cheap wins against tankers will follow

[LeBowen]

The landscape is always changing and the Spurs are continuing to collect assets in the form of picks and trade friendly contracts. There's still time for a Markkanen trade as well, but I'm not going to mark a chapter of their downfall because they didn't trade for Lauri or Trae or whoever. A year of development with reliable vets is a good thing.

I agree that a lot of unexpected things happen and I agree that we shouldn't overspend on Markkanen, but chances of getting another all-star forward are slim.
Here's my detailed take on the wing situation around the league.
I don't really want a max contract guard, I think we should focus on getting a wing as Wemby's running mate.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303986&p=11093268&viewfull=1#post11093268

[Arguendo]

Houston added two players last year who are really chuckle fucks, and jumped from 22 wins to 41.

Recipe:
Add a couple of veterans
Stop trying to lose on purpose
Cheap wins against tankers will follow
It’s a lot easier to get to 41 wins than 45, 41 is also closer to 38. Going from 22 to 41 is not doubling wins. Hou also went on a 11gm streak to get to 41. I’m not making a prediction, Wemby could very well be Top5, variance could get us extra wins but
Hou roster is WAY deeper, Eason & Whitmore are their 6/7 guys (if u count Thompson as 8), both would be fighting to be our #3/4
I don’t know what a chuckle fuck is, but VanVleet is a 17/8/4 PG at .38+ % on 8/per with a 4.75:1 A:TO. They have good depth, we have prospects we hope provide depth

[sfernald]

Love the optimism but more than doubling wins is a TALL task. But otherwise agree, could easily see 38+ wins, Wemby AllNBA/MVP top 10. Lakers didn’t improve, GSW prolly worse, but Sac is better & MEM takes a huge jump, maybe Hou too. West is loaded
Pumped for next season!

I just wanna say to everyone here on this forum, don’t underestimate Wemby. I feel like you guys did last year. I was like the only one here it seemed supporting the idea of them to start out in “Luka” mode with Wemby getting vets immediately and going for the playoffs.

I saw him and I see him as historically good. That means everything you have seen with player development does not stand at this moment for Wemby. There’s no reason he couldn’t take a leap shortly that puts him into historical numbers that no one has ever sniffed before and then the wins will just start to pile up.

[itzsoweezee]

Just curious, what do you think Markkanen would want contract-wise? There is no doubt he's going to want a max as well and he hasn't played one full season his whole career.

No one really plays whole seasons anymore. And at least some of his missed games the last two seasons were because the jazz were desperately trying to lose. I think he’s definitely worth the max. He’s an elite level offensive player and would fit perfectly with wemby.

[Arguendo]

I saw him and I see him as historically good. That means everything you have seen with player development does not stand at this moment for Wemby. There’s no reason he couldn’t take a leap shortly that puts him into historical numbers that no one has ever sniffed before and then the wins will just start to pile up.
Look I generally agree, but people really need perspective. Wemby is the best since Lebron. How many wins did a that translate in yr #2? 42 wins for 4th in his division in a very weak Eastern conference (Only Pistons & Heat were good, rest of PO teams were 42 to 47 wins. Cavs also won 35 the yr before & had a vet team.
Yr 2 Wemby may well b better than LeBron but how many 50 win teams in the West, how many clearly superior teams today?
Im just saying wining 38 games is not a disappointment, winning 40 or 42 would be amazing, 45 astonishing. If there’s someone to do it, it’s Vic, the greatest have a way of developing wayyyy faster & wayyyy better than others, but manage expectations & understand LeBron only got to 42 in a very weak East, Vic is in a loaded West.
Jumping from 21 to 45 wins is crazy, possible & hope it happens but I have a happy life bc I set reasonable expectations & live to be pleasantly surprised. (again) It’s a TALL task

[Strategic]

Only time will tell. With all the pre draft (lack of talent) hype, I’m hoping Castle comes in with a big chip on his shoulders. While the reasoning for bringing in the 2 aging vets looks sound, I was wanting the team to bring on a mid career wing. Now even more since the 2031 draft pick it could be a wing to team with VW. I liked Aaron Wiggins this season and he’s 25. He didn’t fit in OKC’s plans in the playoffs, but I think Daigneault got out coached looking back on the Giddy fiasco. Thunder have enough talent that I could see a solid rotation player getting lost in the shuffle. Then again, we can always hope that KJ improves enough, and I didn’t see any indication Presti was shopping Wiggins.

[rjv]

for whom?

[exstatic]

It’s a lot easier to get to 41 wins than 45, 41 is also closer to 38. Going from 22 to 41 is not doubling wins. Hou also went on a 11gm streak to get to 41. I’m not making a prediction, Wemby could very well be Top5, variance could get us extra wins but
Hou roster is WAY deeper, Eason & Whitmore are their 6/7 guys (if u count Thompson as 8), both would be fighting to be our #3/4
I don’t know what a chuckle fuck is, but VanVleet is a 17/8/4 PG at .38+ % on 8/per with a 4.75:1 A:TO. They have good depth, we have prospects we hope provide depth

Chuckle fuck= idiot personality.

[montgod]

Only time will tell. With all the pre draft (lack of talent) hype, I’m hoping Castle comes in with a big chip on his shoulders. While the reasoning for bringing in the 2 aging vets looks sound, I was wanting the team to bring on a mid career wing. Now even more since the 2031 draft pick it could be a wing to team with VW. I liked Aaron Wiggins this season and he’s 25. He didn’t fit in OKC’s plans in the playoffs, but I think Daigneault got out coached looking back on the Giddy fiasco. Thunder have enough talent that I could see a solid rotation player getting lost in the shuffle. Then again, we can always hope that KJ improves enough, and I didn’t see any indication Presti was shopping Wiggins.

Yeah I wouldn't mind some how getting Tor to agree to some kind of trade (Keldon or Collins comes to mind) for Bruce Brown who has a yr left on his contract.

[Arguendo]

No one really plays whole seasons anymore. And at least some of his missed games the last two seasons were because the jazz were desperately trying to lose. I think he’s definitely worth the max. He’s an elite level offensive player and would fit perfectly with wemby.
I guess part of this is how you define “whole season” but 17 guys played 82 games, 29 played 80+, 53 played in over 95%, & 98 played in over 90%.
Add in I think 5 of the tanking teams combined for 2 guys playing 90+%.
No question there’s less Ironman, your not seen as a bitch for missing back-2-backs, resting sore soft tissue, prolonging careers. But some dudes do still they every game, Mikel Bridges has never missed a game, I guarantee that factored into giving up 5 1sts likely to be in to 20s.
To me, playing in 90+% of games is showing up the whole season by today’s standards (& that’s like an avg 4 guys per team for most non-tanking teams). But showing up 71% over your career is worrying as us never topping 81% (as a rook at that).

[Arguendo]

Chuckle fuck= idiot personality.
Gotcha, Im very down for less of that. That’s my fav thing with Paul, he’s got that Jordan will tear you apart for being an idiot thing, missing the rings but otherwise ALL-timer who cares & will b a future coach + has Pops backing (although I’m not convinced Pop is still engaged)

I think it’s just what’s the Sochans, Brans, Wesley’s need- like hey dipshit your a 3rd yr pro, learn the f-ing offense, learn rotations, pay attention, make good decisions or get your ass to Europe. Bill has come due, think Paul will make them show or run them out & hopefully do for Steph what is supposedly did for SGA

[exstatic]

Gotcha, Im very down for less of that. That’s my fav thing with Paul, he’s got that Jordan will tear you apart for being an idiot thing, missing the rings but otherwise ALL-timer who cares & will b a future coach + has Pops backing (although I’m not convinced Pop is still engaged)

I think it’s just what’s the Sochans, Brans, Wesley’s need- like hey dipshit your a 3rd yr pro, learn the f-ing offense, learn rotations, pay attention, make good decisions or get your ass to Europe. Bill has come due, think Paul will make them show or run them out & hopefully do for Steph what is supposedly did for SGA

I think CP and Barnes are much better mentors than FVV and Brooks.

[sfernald]

Look I generally agree, but people really need perspective. Wemby is the best since Lebron. How many wins did a that translate in yr #2? 42 wins for 4th in his division in a very weak Eastern conference (Only Pistons & Heat were good, rest of PO teams were 42 to 47 wins. Cavs also won 35 the yr before & had a vet team.
Yr 2 Wemby may well b better than LeBron but how many 50 win teams in the West, how many clearly superior teams today?
Im just saying wining 38 games is not a disappointment, winning 40 or 42 would be amazing, 45 astonishing. If there’s someone to do it, it’s Vic, the greatest have a way of developing wayyyy faster & wayyyy better than others, but manage expectations & understand LeBron only got to 42 in a very weak East, Vic is in a loaded West.
Jumping from 21 to 45 wins is crazy, possible & hope it happens but I have a happy life bc I set reasonable expectations & live to be pleasantly surprised. (again) It’s a TALL task


I get your perspective and reservations. I’m just saying I don’t have em. There’s a big difference between Wemby and LeBron. Wemby is potentially a DPOY next year in a way that would put him as DPOY of the last decade. If the team defense is realized, then that’s why I think the games won number can change so dramatically. Look at how it worked for Okc with Chet. He was the defensive piece that suddenly made that team click and win relentessly.

im going all in on shooting for a playin spot for this team next year and I don’t think that’s crazy at all. You can post this at end of the next season if I’m wrong.

i also don’t think they are done at all. Right now assuming Atlanta wants their picks back, we basicallly own the return for Trae Young. We literally can own whatever Atlanta gets for him. We can direct them to trade with certain teams for what we want. If that’s the case, we may be trying to do that and then direct that return to Utah plus whatever else we need to get Lauri. I’m not saying it’s gonna be Lauri, but I’m saying they have set themselves up for one more big move this offseason and I think the Lauri trade is most likely.

[z0sa]

They haven't moved the needle that much for me, either. CP probably doesn't even last past February, so we've got an actual, clearly planned built-in soft tank this season if things go even somewhat south before the deadline.

Barnes and Castle don't make us a playoff team. Play-in, I hope, yes.

[slick'81]

Spurs will be improved assuming castle hits and cp3 has something left. Ultimately its on wemby's shoulders to get spurs in the playin picture

[Arguendo]

I think CP and Barnes are much better mentors than FVV and Brooks.
Agree & I think they compliment each other really well, one will call you out/demand your best & the other will pick you up & lead by example…All-time great who couldn’t get over the hump vs career role guy who knows what it’s like to win & how very hard it is to get back

[Arguendo]

You can post this at end of the next season if I’m wrong.

i also don’t think they are done at all.
Nah man,that’s not me- I won’t be calling anyone out, I just like the sports discussion & appreciate getting peoples perspective, that’s how I grow my own.

Also think they’re not done, but I’d prefer Spurs see what it looks like a month (post Olympics) then maybe in Dec/Jan when some apron team is underperforming & maybe panics. If Castle shows real PG potential then he may well be a future high-end #2 and you have a much bigger runway & better bargaining position to go OKC route, see if you want a new max guy (like Lauri) or if it’s better to get a 2-yr rental, etc.

But I do just want to point out the jump your expecting from Wendy, who just had the best 19/20 y/o season ever, one if the best rook seasons ever (even compared to a 22 y/o Kareem & a 24 y/o DR).
Bron Yr1 20.9/5.5/5.9/1.6s .417/.290 9th in MVP
Yr2 27.2/7.4/7.2/2.2s 6th in MVP behind 5 first ballot HOFers who all won MVPs

Wemby 21.4/10.6/3.9/3.6b .465/.325 with obvi DEF1 & robbed of DPOY bc team play
That jump would b something like 28/13/5/5 likely top3 MVP & DPOY
I honestly think that’s very possible, but Bron got 42MPG that yr, I think Vic gets closer to 33. Bron was way more physically developed & not 7’4” with the always looming possibilities of foot/back injuries that ended so any great bigs early.
I simply doubt PATFO give him the chance to play huge minutes& totally carry the team to get to 45-47W. Like I honestly think every 1MPG Vic plays is worth 1/2 to 1 win. But Pop is extremely conservative with min, the FO is secure, & I doubt they view the risk/reward of big minutes after of summer of international ball positively atm.

That said, I think your largely right, esp about the D. It seems like your expecting Vic to pretty clearly be a Top2 player ever (with proper durability) and that may well prove right.
I think we will have a much clearer picture by early August (Lauri extends 8/6, can only be traded on 2/6 or he’ll b free). If Vic dominates the American all-star team, has an international “holy shit” Olympics as a 20 y/o, esp if he leads them to gold, there is a lot more pressure to make those win now moves bc it’s clear he’s ready & continuing to slow roll simply wastes a (very cheap) yr.

[LeBowen]

If Vic dominates the American all-star team, has an international “holy shit” Olympics as a 20 y/o, esp if he leads them to gold, there is a lot more pressure to make those win now moves bc it’s clear he’s ready & continuing to slow roll simply wastes a (very cheap) yr.

Agreed.
I'm also really optimistic about his second season, especially with CP3 coming in.
His best days are long gone, but he doesn't even need to collapse defense or anything, he just needs to get the ball to Wemby and passing is a skill that never goes away.

Over his final 45 games of the season Wemby averaged 23/11/4.5 and 4 blocks in just 29 minutes. That's with Tre and worse spacing than he'll have in season two.
Worst case scenario is 25/12/4 with 4 blocks.

As for roster moves, while I desperately want Markkanen here, I want him because he's the best available option.
Back to the wing situation analysis, we're not getting anyone else next summer except maybe Naz Reid and even that's a stretch because Minnesota probably keeps him over McDaniels.

If Devin and Castle deliver, we won't be in for big moves at guard positions, either.
Just another stable veteran depending on if CP3/Tre are still here and then it's all about depth.
I just think Markkanen is that guy for us.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but if we get to the playoffs, most teams aren't really equipped to deal with Wemby.
Yeah, we'd lose because the rest of the roster isn't up to the required level, but he'd put up some ridiculous numbers.

[scott]

Nah man,that’s not me- I won’t be calling anyone out, I just like the sports discussion & appreciate getting peoples perspective, that’s how I grow my own.

Also think they’re not done, but I’d prefer Spurs see what it looks like a month (post Olympics) then maybe in Dec/Jan when some apron team is underperforming & maybe panics. If Castle shows real PG potential then he may well be a future high-end #2 and you have a much bigger runway & better bargaining position to go OKC route, see if you want a new max guy (like Lauri) or if it’s better to get a 2-yr rental, etc.

But I do just want to point out the jump your expecting from Wendy, who just had the best 19/20 y/o season ever, one if the best rook seasons ever (even compared to a 22 y/o Kareem & a 24 y/o DR).
Bron Yr1 20.9/5.5/5.9/1.6s .417/.290 9th in MVP
Yr2 27.2/7.4/7.2/2.2s 6th in MVP behind 5 first ballot HOFers who all won MVPs

Wemby 21.4/10.6/3.9/3.6b .465/.325 with obvi DEF1 & robbed of DPOY bc team play
That jump would b something like 28/13/5/5 likely top3 MVP & DPOY
I honestly think that’s very possible, but Bron got 42MPG that yr, I think Vic gets closer to 33. Bron was way more physically developed & not 7’4” with the always looming possibilities of foot/back injuries that ended so any great bigs early.
I simply doubt PATFO give him the chance to play huge minutes& totally carry the team to get to 45-47W. Like I honestly think every 1MPG Vic plays is worth 1/2 to 1 win. But Pop is extremely conservative with min, the FO is secure, & I doubt they view the risk/reward of big minutes after of summer of international ball positively atm.

That said, I think your largely right, esp about the D. It seems like your expecting Vic to pretty clearly be a Top2 player ever (with proper durability) and that may well prove right.
I think we will have a much clearer picture by early August (Lauri extends 8/6, can only be traded on 2/6 or he’ll b free). If Vic dominates the American all-star team, has an international “holy shit” Olympics as a 20 y/o, esp if he leads them to gold, there is a lot more pressure to make those win now moves bc it’s clear he’s ready & continuing to slow roll simply wastes a (very cheap) yr.

Great post. Hopefully Wemby does have that "holy shit" Olympics. While I still hope Team USA wins gold, I hope that it's done in a close finals game where Wemby has a game for the ages. Obviously the Spurs know Wemby better than anyone, but it seems like they don't feel like he's ready for them to make the big moves to put pieces around him yet... maybe Wemby is motivated to show them that they should.

[sfernald]

Agreed.
I'm also really optimistic about his second season, especially with CP3 coming in.
His best days are long gone, but he doesn't even need to collapse defense or anything, he just needs to get the ball to Wemby and passing is a skill that never goes away.

Over his final 45 games of the season Wemby averaged 23/11/4.5 and 4 blocks in just 29 minutes. That's with Tre and worse spacing than he'll have in season two.
Worst case scenario is 25/12/4 with 4 blocks.

As for roster moves, while I desperately want Markkanen here, I want him because he's the best available option.
Back to the wing situation analysis, we're not getting anyone else next summer except maybe Naz Reid and even that's a stretch because Minnesota probably keeps him over McDaniels.

If Devin and Castle deliver, we won't be in for big moves at guard positions, either.
Just another stable veteran depending on if CP3/Tre are still here and then it's all about depth.
I just think Markkanen is that guy for us.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but if we get to the playoffs, most teams aren't really equipped to deal with Wemby.
Yeah, we'd lose because the rest of the roster isn't up to the required level, but he'd put up some ridiculous numbers.

He has one of the sharpest brains all time in the nba. That is the #1 defining trait for hall of famers. As long as he still stays healthy and in great shape, even as he ages, he will be able to do a lot of the Chris Paul-y things that define him. I have great confidence we will love what he brings to Wemby and our Spurs.

[jesterbobman]

I don't think there were realistic options to move the needle to contention. We're young, but the guys they added should both help the level of the team next year (They're not great A+ players at this stage, but better than Blake Wesley / Malaki (CP3) and Cedi Osman (Barnes).
Most importantly, they should help the growth path of our players, with passing on veteran know how (Meaning as politely as possible, some of the fuckery that CP3 gets up to) / training discipline etc.
Play-in / fringe play in seems reasonable, and that would be a decent jump.

Looking at the West,
OKC / Denver / Dallas / Minnesota

Seem like the top 4. I think all four of them expect to end up near the top of the West.

Memphis / Phoenix / New Orleans / Lakers / Kings / Warriors / Clippers / Rockets will all have serious playoff / play-in expectations. If the top 4 are in, at least two of them won't make it.

Spurs probably have play in aspirations. They'll have to be better than some of the teams above to get in, and a team probably gets a serious injury bug, but it'll still be an ask to get to above a bunch of them.

Jazz / Blazers seem like the dregs, though both will be frisky.

I think the big FA year is next year, mostly as Wemby will (hopefully) go from an incredibly promising second year player coming off his rookie year to a guy who was in the MVP conversation (As in, he'll get brought up because of his numbers but dismissed as the Spurs aren't quite good enough). That's a really promising player to join in FA.

[dbestpro]

The needle moved from impossible to possible—still not great odds, but better than before.

[K...]

Bend over, ill show you a needle that will move you

[jmard5]

Be patient, it won't happen right away.

[rascal]

Spurs will be improved assuming castle hits and cp3 has something left. Ultimately its on wemby's shoulders to get spurs in the playin picture

Hope not

I want two top ten lottery picks in 25

[rascal]

Great post. Hopefully Wemby does have that "holy shit" Olympics. While I still hope Team USA wins gold, I hope that it's done in a close finals game where Wemby has a game for the ages. Obviously the Spurs know Wemby better than anyone, but it seems like they don't feel like he's ready for them to make the big moves to put pieces around him yet... maybe Wemby is motivated to show them that they should.

Hope France wins Gold.

Would be great for Wemby. I don't care if the players on USA win Gold.

[exstatic]

Hope France wins Gold.

Would be great for Wemby. I don't care if the players on USA win Gold.

The only way that the crap style of ball in the NBA changes is if the US gets shut out of the medals like they did two years ago in the World Cup. That would be a wake-up call to revamp the pussy ball rules that allow offensive players to do whatever they want, and hunt fouls with impunity.

[Arguendo]

Over his final 45 games of the season Wemby…
Worst case scenario is 25/12/4 with 4 blocks.

As for roster moves, while I desperately want Markkanen here, I want him because he's the best available option.
Back to the wing situation analysis, we're not getting anyone else next summer except maybe Naz Reid and even that's a stretch because Minnesota probably keeps him over McDaniels.

I just think Markkanen is that guy for us.
Pretty much same page club, I still can’t believe how good Wemby is, it’s unprecedented. He clearly wasn’t fully ready for NBA speed & athleticism (no 19 yr old ever has been except may Bron), but dominated on D & was very good on O from day one. Sky is the limit, we are so lucky.

My only except is I view Lauri as a great fit (bc age, D, GP) as opposed to a hypothetical perfect fit, with the only real difference being I’d sale the farm for perfect but hold back for great/would have to be a good deal. With the new CBA I don’t think anyone can afford to sale the farm & miss on a Max guy…but as an expiring or FA, b4 Wendy supermaxes? A miss doesn’t crush you

But damn the thought of Wendy/Lauri, two complimentary giants working out there in ‘25-26, with Castle playing PG at a 2nd yr Jrue level & Vessel doing his current thing…wow. Sprinkle in a few competent role players & that’s a real contender in yr f-ing 3. I also think Lauri’s D could really improve when he’s not shouldering the whole O & in a great D scheme, which we already have the foundational pieces for. God I hope Lauri doesn’t extend, getting him as either an expiring or FA (perfect) sets us short term & long…

[TrainOfThought5]

Dillingham won't be as good as some still believe here at Spurstalk.

Dillingham will be far more valuable than the pick swap and 2081 First round pick we get in the future.

[scott]

Pretty much same page club, I still can’t believe how good Wemby is, it’s unprecedented. He clearly wasn’t fully ready for NBA speed & athleticism (no 19 yr old ever has been except may Bron), but dominated on D & was very good on O from day one. Sky is the limit, we are so lucky.

My only except is I view Lauri as a great fit (bc age, D, GP) as opposed to a hypothetical perfect fit, with the only real difference being I’d sale the farm for perfect but hold back for great/would have to be a good deal. With the new CBA I don’t think anyone can afford to sale the farm & miss on a Max guy…but as an expiring or FA, b4 Wendy supermaxes? A miss doesn’t crush you

But damn the thought of Wendy/Lauri, two complimentary giants working out there in ‘25-26, with Castle playing PG at a 2nd yr Jrue level & Vessel doing his current thing…wow. Sprinkle in a few competent role players & that’s a real contender in yr f-ing 3. I also think Lauri’s D could really improve when he’s not shouldering the whole O & in a great D scheme, which we already have the foundational pieces for. God I hope Lauri doesn’t extend, getting him as either an expiring or FA (perfect) sets us short term & long…

It's possible Lauri's D isn't as bad as some want to portray.

1810343086603604160

[Arguendo]

He has one of the sharpest brains all time in the nba. That is the #1 defining trait for hall of famers. As long as he still stays healthy and in great shape, even as he ages, he will be able to do a lot of the Chris Paul-y things that define him. I have great confidence we will love what he brings to Wemby and our Spurs.
Definitely, Paul’s athletic decline has hurt his D/ability to get to the rim, but has not effected his ability to read the floor, or get the ball where it needs to go. Major difference maker even if just for 55g @ 25/min. And the coach on the floor aspect is huge. Paul significantly raises the floor, even when off the court.

[Arguendo]

Hope not

I want two top ten lottery picks in 25
Take one for the team…fly to ATL, knee-cap Trae & you get your wish!
I actually really like the Hornets moves & think Miller is legit, that Cha pick is way more likely to convey (even if still unlikely). I haven’t been this excited about NBA since ‘14. Lots of fun teams on top of all the Spurs stuff, when is this season gonna start?????

[Arguendo]

The only way that the crap style of ball in the NBA changes is if the US gets shut out of the medals like they did two years ago in the World Cup. That would be a wake-up call to revamp the pussy ball rules that allow offensive players to do whatever they want, and hunt fouls with impunity.
I hope the NBA already started doing this. Bill Simmons & Russillo discussed multiple times the obvious change after AS break, less soft foul calls, more physical, moving away from the Steph Curry breath-on-me fouls towards letting them play. I believe there was a significant reduction in FTAs (in a sub-set of those softer players that were taking advantage) This could be to get them ready for FIBA style play, but they both said their feel was Silver was simply embarrassed by the AS game & put out a mandate to refs to stop rewarding the floppers & let them play. I really hope that’s the case, basketball is much better when your actually allowed to play D.

[Arguendo]

It's possible Lauri's D isn't as bad as some want to portray.

1810343086603604160
To be honest I don’t have a good handle on his D. Watch way less early season then I used to, I’ve only seen him a handful of games the past 2yrs, and never focused on his D. His O very much stood out though.
My perception is from podcasts, articles & comments that generally ranked him from below avg to “adequate”, so I figured he was about average maybe slightly below. Not bad, but not a positive.
Feels like that’s what a C- translates too? C being avg?
what’s your feel for his D?

[scott]

To be honest I don’t have a good handle on his D. Watch way less early season then I used to, I’ve only seen him a handful of games the past 2yrs, and never focused on his D. His O very much stood out though.
My perception is from podcasts, articles & comments that generally ranked him from below avg to “adequate”, so I figured he was about average maybe slightly below. Not bad, but not a positive.
Feels like that’s what a C- translates too? C being avg?
what’s your feel for his D?

I don't have much of a feel either because I don't watch a lot of Jazz games, so my opinion of his D would be anecdotal, so my reading would be about the same as yours. Slightly below average (C-) is easily workable.

[ismael-robert]

Why yall talking about handling n feeling his D

[Big Empty]

We still need a back up center. Collins aint it.

[Ice009]

The only way that the crap style of ball in the NBA changes is if the US gets shut out of the medals like they did two years ago in the World Cup. That would be a wake-up call to revamp the pussy ball rules that allow offensive players to do whatever they want, and hunt fouls with impunity.

I agree with you. Would be good to force the NBA to change those soft rules that allow weak play by the offensive player and reward it with soft fouls that certain players fish for.

[JPB]

The needle has been moved. Just not in obvious ways.

yeah, the famous PATFO grand master plan. Just wait and see, guys. It's all here for whom can see... Betting on pinp pong (again) and about a dozen percents, then praying on not being too good next year and luck so you won't end up with the 6th or 7th pick next year and get a guy who will take 4 years to develop or not.

Because it's "obvious" we're getting another superstar next year in the draft and we're bringing marquee FAs for cheap. It's written, the NBA exists for the spurs and no one else is making any moves to improve around... Ainge will have no choice but to serve us Lauri on a silver plate, Castle will be prime Kawhi his rookie year, and the phantoms of Paul an Barnes are gonna make Wesley Isiah Thomas and Branham Ray Allen.

It's gotta be a very, very long season if spurs are done making moves this year. I do'nt beleive this team as such win 30+ games. But that's the master plan, so it's all good.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pretty much same page club, I still can’t believe how good Wemby is, it’s unprecedented. He clearly wasn’t fully ready for NBA speed & athleticism (no 19 yr old ever has been except may Bron), but dominated on D & was very good on O from day one. Sky is the limit, we are so lucky.

My only except is I view Lauri as a great fit (bc age, D, GP) as opposed to a hypothetical perfect fit, with the only real difference being I’d sale the farm for perfect but hold back for great/would have to be a good deal. With the new CBA I don’t think anyone can afford to sale the farm & miss on a Max guy…but as an expiring or FA, b4 Wendy supermaxes? A miss doesn’t crush you

But damn the thought of Wendy/Lauri, two complimentary giants working out there in ‘25-26, with Castle playing PG at a 2nd yr Jrue level & Vessel doing his current thing…wow. Sprinkle in a few competent role players & that’s a real contender in yr f-ing 3. I also think Lauri’s D could really improve when he’s not shouldering the whole O & in a great D scheme, which we already have the foundational pieces for. God I hope Lauri doesn’t extend, getting him as either an expiring or FA (perfect) sets us short term & long…

I always thought Americans are huge idiots for calling him Wembanyana, but calling him Wendy takes this to another level

[Bruno]

I half agree about that.

The most important for Spurs is to build a core of good players around Wembanyama to be a legit contender in a few years.
To do that, there are 2 sides:
1) Develop good players Spurs have under contract.
2) Expend and/or improve that core through trades, free agency and draft.

Regarding 1): I think Spurs have done a quite good job this summer. Paul and Barnes should bring some stability to the team and help with all their experience. They won't make Spurs a playoff team but Spurs should play a more sound basketball which will help the development of young players. The only negative point for me is that with Paul and Tre Jones, there might not have a lot of playing time at PG for Castle and that's where I want to see him play.

Regarding 2): It's not that good. The current core around Wembanyama isn't great both in quality and quantity with only Vassell, Sochan and now Castle. To me, Spurs are late and they needed to do more in that area this summer. It's true that getting these picks way in the future might help to do a potential blockbuster trade but it's all speculation at that point. What has been done isn't enough.

[Mr. Body]

Now that the dust settled and it appears imo that we will resign two of our castaway friends in Bassey and possibly Mamu, I do find myself disappointed that we couldn't manage to get another rookie or other young player onto the squad. Discounting Harrison Ingram - seems a longshot.

Sidy looking unimpressive doesn't help.

I get that the #8 had to be revoked in order to get the Barnes trade to work. I believe their object was getting Chris Paul, whether with space or going over cap, and use the rest in some other asset-garnering manner. It turned out to work extremely well.

And I sort of get the reluctance to sign a SRP to a guaranteed contract. They are so cheap, though, and they did so for Sidy last year (which may have lead to reluctance this year). In fact, I think they are super-reluctant to get the Blake Wesley/Cidy Sissoko types who are long projects with guaranteed money. Things have changed. And they're nickel and diming cap space for the next year or so.

It just feels peculiar that we're in the SL with only one player of note, as a rebuilding team. Again, part of this is Cissoko's lack of impact. I don't think punting on the #8 was a bad idea in retrospect. It's a fair bet that they might have picked Dalton Knecht or Matas Buzelis, and we'll not have missed much.

Then, for the SRP. Had we picked, say, Furphy, we would have wound up having to use an asset to dump salary to get the Barnes trade through. Something like a SRP to get rid of Wesley, meaning two SRPs used to get Furphy, and I'm not sure that's worth it.

I like that they prioritized established vets over more rookie swings. We've done that enough. I like the Castle pick. I just didn't enter the postseason thinking he'd be the only rookie on the roster, and I expect they didn't, either.

[T Park]

Still have not done enough (or anything) to make up for giving away our #draft pick and possibly a future star -

to a rival -

for absolutely nothing until 2031...



Lmfao future star 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Leetonidas]

If Wemby improves his play from the end of last season coupled with (hopefully) internal development and the addition of a couple solid vets at positions of need, I think their ceiling could be play in territory. I think they'll win 38ish games but wouldn't be entirely surprised to see them at .500 if they're relatively healthy all season

[exstatic]

Now that the dust settled and it appears imo that we will resign two of our castaway friends in Bassey and possibly Mamu, I do find myself disappointed that we couldn't manage to get another rookie or other young player onto the squad. Discounting Harrison Ingram - seems a longshot.

Sidy looking unimpressive doesn't help.

I get that the #8 had to be revoked in order to get the Barnes trade to work. I believe their object was getting Chris Paul, whether with space or going over cap, and use the rest in some other asset-garnering manner. It turned out to work extremely well.

And I sort of get the reluctance to sign a SRP to a guaranteed contract. They are so cheap, though, and they did so for Sidy last year (which may have lead to reluctance this year). In fact, I think they are super-reluctant to get the Blake Wesley/Cidy Sissoko types who are long projects with guaranteed money. Things have changed. And they're nickel and diming cap space for the next year or so.

It just feels peculiar that we're in the SL with only one player of note, as a rebuilding team. Again, part of this is Cissoko's lack of impact. I don't think punting on the #8 was a bad idea in retrospect. It's a fair bet that they might have picked Dalton Knecht or Matas Buzelis, and we'll not have missed much.

Then, for the SRP. Had we picked, say, Furphy, we would have wound up having to use an asset to dump salary to get the Barnes trade through. Something like a SRP to get rid of Wesley, meaning two SRPs used to get Furphy, and I'm not sure that's worth it.

I like that they prioritized established vets over more rookie swings. We've done that enough. I like the Castle pick. I just didn't enter the postseason thinking he'd be the only rookie on the roster, and I expect they didn't, either.

Cissoko was guaranteed and given an NBA contract, because he had a buyout with his Spanish team that loaned him to the Ignite. He’s been pretty awful, and I see him being jettisoned to open a roster spot next year.

[Pauleta14]

I half agree about that.

The most important for Spurs is to build a core of good players around Wembanyama to be a legit contender in a few years.
To do that, there are 2 sides:
1) Develop good players Spurs have under contract.
2) Expend and/or improve that core through trades, free agency and draft.

Regarding 1): I think Spurs have done a quite good job this summer. Paul and Barnes should bring some stability to the team and help with all their experience. They won't make Spurs a playoff team but Spurs should play a more sound basketball which will help the development of young players. The only negative point for me is that with Paul and Tre Jones, there might not have a lot of playing time at PG for Castle and that's where I want to see him play.

Regarding 2): It's not that good. The current core around Wembanyama isn't great both in quality and quantity with only Vassell, Sochan and now Castle. To me, Spurs are late and they needed to do more in that area this summer. It's true that getting these picks way in the future might help to do a potential blockbuster trade but it's all speculation at that point. What has been done isn't enough.

I'm with you on Castle

I wouldn't be surprised if Tre was traded, it'd be the best for him in a contract ending year where he'll have a lot less PT and much lower stats. I don't see a long term future for him in the roster

I don't understand why so many put Castle at the 3, he needs to learn the PG position and alternate at the 2

[Duncan2177]

I'm with you on Castle

I wouldn't be surprised if Tre was traded, it'd be the best for him in a contract ending year where he'll have a lot less PT and much lower stats. I don't see a long term future for him in the roster

I don't understand why so many put Castle at the 3, he needs to learn the PG position and alternate at the 2

I think Castle would hate playing the 3.

[rascal]

I'm with you on Castle

I wouldn't be surprised if Tre was traded, it'd be the best for him in a contract ending year where he'll have a lot less PT and much lower stats. I don't see a long term future for him in the roster

I don't understand why so many put Castle at the 3, he needs to learn the PG position and alternate at the 2

Castle would lose his size advantage at the 3. He needs to play pg and also at times the 2.

[widowmaker]

We still need a back up center. Collins aint it.


They could have drafted Edey at 8 and solved that problem if they really wanted to.

[JPB]

We shouldn't also overstimate the impact Paul and Barnes "mentorhship" will have on the youngsters, specially with the new generation of players...

It's one thing to be a still competitive vet in your prime (or close) who still brings it on the court, can teach by example and earn youger players respect with their game and credibility. It's another to be a washed up, older vet who geths is ass kicked in games and practices... It's not as automatic as it used to be to get younger guys respect who be may be like (in their mind) "yeah, whatever grandpa, try to hit a shot first and you'll talk" before getting back on Tik Tok" checking the new trending vids."

Then Paul helped SGA develop and optimize his skils and talent, but he didn't create them. It have to be there to start with.

[z0sa]

We shouldn't also overstimate the impact Paul and Barnes "mentorhship" will have on the youngsters, specially with the new generation of players...

It's one thing to be a still competitive vet in your prime (or close) who still brings it on the court, can teach by example and earn youger players respect with their game and credibility. It's another to be a washed up, older vet who gets is ass kicked in games and practices... It's not as automatic as it used to be to get younger guys respect who be may be like: "yeah, whatever grandpa, try to hit a shot forst and you'll talk" before getting back on Tik Tok" checking the new trending vids."

Luckily, the main thing CP can teach is how to throw a (entry/lob) pass which never "ages" out. Young bucks also respect legit war stories from their own profession, which Barnes and CP have a treasure chest full of.

[JPB]

Luckily, the main thing CP can teach is how to throw a (entry/lob) pass which never "ages" out. Young bucks also respect legit war stories from their own profession, which Barnes and CP have a treasure chest full of.

Well, he'll throw them, that's for sure. Hopefully others will take notice.As far as war stories, not so sure. Publcily, they'll say all the good things, factually, not sure they care that much and mostly focus on their own story, career and stats, trying to get the best contract they can get.

[Spurs Homer]

Lmfao future star 藍藍藍藍藍


we dont know yet

therefore "possibly"

[ChumpDumper]

If Wemby improves his play from the end of last season coupled with (hopefully) internal development and the addition of a couple solid vets at positions of need, I think their ceiling could be play in territory. I think they'll win 38ish games but wouldn't be entirely surprised to see them at .500 if they're relatively healthy all seasonSounds reasonable. I'm glad this season's owners' cap looks like cap+room exception+minimums; the opportunities were there and the FO took them, getting at least one player casuals are going to know from State Farm commercials. Next summer looks like the one where they might keep more than one first rounder. I expect spending to remain a little skimpy for our tastes until summer 2026.

I can't expect the Lauri situation to be resolved this offseason, but August 6 will be the date to watch there.

[210]

It was never likely that the Spurs were going to try and go all in this year. You don’t go from 22 wins to a contender in one offseason. I wouldn’t give them an A+ but it was a pretty damn solid offseason IMO. At the same time, I think it’s absurd to argue that they should intentionally be as bad as possible to tank for the 2025 draft. They made some clear incremental improvements, added some valuable assets down the road, and mostly kept their cap space free going forward to allow for flexibility. No, they’re not a playoff team now but they should at least play more structured and competitive basketball this season which is a step in the right direction.

Now, if they have this same sort of offseason the next year or beyond then it’ll be less acceptable. At some point it’ll be time to leverage some of these picks into making a move that gets them contending again.

Apparently you don’t remember the rookie years of Tim and Dave. Those two teams went from a 20 win team to a contender in one offseason.

[Obstructed_View]

Needle don't move til October, tbh.

[Barfunk]

Well, a ton of questions will be answered in the 2024-2025 season, that's for sure.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Apparently you don’t remember the rookie years of Tim and Dave. Those two teams went from a 20 win team to a contender in one offseason.

You got it!

The entire league is pretty weak now. Flawed teams like Dallas and Celtic got into the finals. Wemby and Lauri would beat the shit out of their front court. Sochan, Castle, Barnes, will slow down their guards.

[sfernald]

Let’s say they get Lauri.

Does Cp3/Vassell/Barnes/Lauri/Wemby

with Sochan/Castle/(Collins or Bassey) off the bench

move the needle?

And lets play this 8 man roster Tibs minutes with Wemby playing 40 minutes a game…

How many wins?

[scott]

Let’s say they get Lauri.

Does Cp3/Vassell/Barnes/Lauri/Wemby

with Sochan/Castle/(Collins or Bassey) off the bench

move the needle?

And lets play this 8 man roster Tibs minutes with Wemby playing 40 minutes a game…

How many wins?

I would go with a SL of CP3/Vassell/Sochan/Lauri/Wemby. This is a line up with 4 guys who are capable shooters, and 4 guys who are plus defenders.

It avoids the issue of Sochan and Castle sharing the court (until such time one of them proves a capable shooter) and gives a bench corps of Tre/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Collins a little better opportunity to succeed.

Unfortunately I think Collins for Lopez is off the table at this point but it's not the end of the world. At that point, I'd maybe not bring Mamu back and see if there is an opportunity for a little better depth with a 4/5. Can Achuiwa be had on a cheap prove it deal, since no one else seems to want him?

I think that's a 45-48 win team, competing for a 5 or 6 seed.

[exstatic]

Let’s say they get Lauri.

Does Cp3/Vassell/Barnes/Lauri/Wemby

with Sochan/Castle/(Collins or Bassey) off the bench

move the needle?

And lets play this 8 man roster Tibs minutes with Wemby playing 40 minutes a game…

How many wins?

30 wins, Wemby on the shelf from gross over use by Christmas. Seriously, if you play him 40 minutes, he goes down the Porzingas path, chronic injuries and unrealized potential.

[GAustex]

Take the under if it’s set at lol 45 wins

[Arguendo]

Am I falling for a troll trap? Seems to be lots of misery here for a clearly very bright future.

--How have the past two years of obvious tanking have not work beautifully? '23 it was absolutely best case scenario, got Wemby- BEST CASE SCENARIO- A+++++

'24- Pure tank team already in place (no structure, no vet, NO PG team of 20-24 y/o) + a 19 y/o Wemby, SAS 1st + TOR top-6 protected- Wemby goes All-time rookie- DEF1, added DAL unprotected swap and multiple seconds for cap space, both lottery picks hit near best case scenario (salary slots matter, these were the lowest value #1/#2 picks since 2000)- Maybe got the best prospect in Castle (IMO best chance to be an All-Star or high-end #2, moderate flood- Sheppard right there as higher floor/lower ceiling), choose flexibility= #8 for a '30 swap (from bottom tier franchise) after Ant expires + their '31 + >$6M cap money, choose flexibility= #35 into #36 (no one they liked would take a 2-way so they stashed).- Pretty much best case scenario for Prospect + assets + cap, time will tell, IMO thats an A, but whatever its arbitrary

'25 (past few days)- Flip a non-guaranteed K + back-half 2RDer for cap space, use cap space saved by moving #8 and #35= a quality vet role player who started 82 game/fills shooting & positional need on a very movable salary + another unprotected swap from a bottom tier franchise, use remaining cap space to sign Player/coach end-of-career 1st Ballot HOFer who was 12th in league in Ass/g and 28th in Assists overall.
Convince both players to take a combined $5M less than owed/agreed to avoid losing asset(s).
Open Cap Exceptions + good players still on the market (Trent Jr, Okoro, Kennard). - TBD and you are in a much better position to trade for someone like Lauri compared to before the drafts (Uta had no use for the #8, now have '30 and '31 picks with unique value to UTA- and the best tank commander in the league (Keldon- got Wemby, ready to get YOU Flagg) is far more expendable, a matching salary, Ainge can sell (22ppg guy as #1 whose entering his prime) on a great K.


"SUPERSTAR"- what do you mean? I get the sense that to you this means anyone who is even close to making AS or All-NBA even once, so like what 50-70 Superstars?
Superstar is a franchise altering player, these guys are almost exclusively future HOFer (or Penny Hardaway), and will have a sustained period of being a clear top 10/15 player over a long period hence the "Super" part.
More than a star, a foundation your team builds AROUND and that the league must adapt to, not for a yr or two, but for most of a decade.
Point being WTF are you talking about "getting another superstar" like that's a common thing. It's rare (usually one of those SS is a past-prime all-time greatat vet See: Bron and Durant) and it will be much harder with the Aprons. Who in the league is better positioned that the Spurs to acquire either an elite star or a superstar via either trade or draft? OKC and maybe Hou. Both clearly have better/more young NBA talent now, but Spurs are right there and a year/2 behind on the rebuild very possible Sochan or Bran could very good by mid-season.

I'm not a trust the process guy, I look at the evidence and evaluate those results, along with likely potential.
Here's what cannot be argued: Spurs possess the best foundational piece in at least a generation, an extremely clean Cap sheet entering Wemby's 4th season (Only-Wemby, Castle, Vessell, Keldon and non-gauranteed Champ), a top 3/4 pile of draft assets, their '22 guys don't look great, hard to call anyone beyond VW/Vessell obvious core guys atm

Room for opinion/TBD: When does the contention window open yr3/yr4?--Can Vessell be a high-end #3 or nah--- can Steph play PG and what's the actual ceiling wherever he plays--- is Keldon a viable #6/7 scorer off the bench long-term or a trade chip--- '25 draft--can we make a deal for Lauri, if so before extension (8/6)/as an expiring/as extended (one day only 2/6 fire sale) or as FA -- did Sochan (Bran,Wes, etc) develop and into what--- how big of a draw is Wemby to other players as potential GOAT- can you flip Barnes for an expiring and asset to clear '26 cap- etc

I understand the frustration after being the most spoiled fanbase in sports for a full generation. PATFO did not ask for Kawhi to shitbag them, its making lemonade without even the lemons, unlike OKC or Hou. Once they decided to tear it down they've seeming done an excellent job. Not perfect and of course it took luck, it always takes luck. I don't think they're particularly good at drafting but they clearly aren't terrible, they are the middle with almost everyone else.
Of course there were misses and those misses contributed to getting Wemby=bad luck turning into good luck. Yes, they missed on a 19th and a 12th pick but hit on #29, #11 & #41. Everyone misses, the draft its a crapshoot. Yr 3 will answer lots of question with the '22 class, Spurs clearly planned to tank and took multiple homerun swings- maybe none hit its really not a big deal. The overall talent looks away better if one of those guys takes a big yr3 step, but either way the overall strategy put them in position to get Wemby, they got lucky, got him and now have the about brightest future moving forward bc Wemby is 5.5yrs younger than SGA and Luka and is already not far off from being in that Top5. Basically the Spurs an unbelievable chance to be the most spoiled fanbase for another generation. The Spurs will be able to make every move under the new CBA rules and tailor their scheme, that's a huge long-term advantage.

If you are unable to enjoy Wemby's 2nd yr because they haven't done exactly what you wanted by day 3 of the new League yr or by opening day, maybe tune in less and you'll likely enjoy it more. It has not been perfect, but they are extremely well positioned, with the only real flaw being lack of development for those '22 guys. Maybe that shows the Spurs can't develop players, maybe its bc their first 1.5 seasons were played in intentional chaos, maybe its bc all 3 were draft as very high risk/high ceiling/low floor guys, most likely its some of each. If Sochan shows reasonable development and Castle shows real promise as PG the core looks really good. If not, you have the assets to get developed players, maybe from teams that put together their teams under the old CBA and now can't maneuver.

"do'nt believe this team as such win 30+"? One, well said. Two, they tanked last yr. Three, they had a 27win pace after Jones got the job (ie any sembalance of a PG), and a 33win pace after AS once everyone had a clear role with sitting guys late. That same team with development wins 30 bc Wemby and no Sochan/Bran experiment, but its not the same team, they added a legendary and current top 15 Ass/g guy & Player/Coach, a durable PF vet who stretches the floor, and a potential ROY and in the process pushed the weaker rotation guys down or out. The team is at least marginally better around him and Wemby will be better, likely much much better and maybe legit MVP candidate better and frontrunner for DPOY. Try to enjoy it.

[Arguendo]

I always thought Americans are huge idiots for calling him Wembanyana, but calling him Wendy takes this to another level
hahahah phone will not accept Wemby, forced autocorrects to Wendy every damn time, should prob just use VW

[Arguendo]

double post

[TrainOfThought5]

yeah, the famous PATFO grand master plan. Just wait and see, guys. It's all here for whom can see... Betting on pinp pong (again) and about a dozen percents, then praying on not being too good next year and luck so you won't end up with the 6th or 7th pick next year and get a guy who will take 4 years to develop or not.

Because it's "obvious" we're getting another superstar next year in the draft and we're bringing marquee FAs for cheap. It's written, the NBA exists for the spurs and no one else is making any moves to improve around... Ainge will have no choice but to serve us Lauri on a silver plate, Castle will be prime Kawhi his rookie year, and the phantoms of Paul an Barnes are gonna make Wesley Isiah Thomas and Branham Ray Allen.

It's gotta be a very, very long season if spurs are done making moves this year. I do'nt beleive this team as such win 30+ games. But that's the master plan, so it's all good.


Wemby automatically has better defense and shooting around him. We’ll win 30 games.

[GAustex]

If 30 is the number that is a tough decision
I say over but barely