Interesting Tidbits as Spurs Trade for Harrison Barnes

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/harrison-barnes-trade-interesting-tidbits/

[heyheymymy]

Wow if true that Barnes waived his $3.7MM trade kicker voluntarily that would be interesting.

My theory is that his production is subdued because he became trapped in SAC and was miserable there. Waiving the kicker is like "get me the fuck out of here!" lol

Players play well when they are in good situations. Barnes has a ton of talent. I always thought he held back on effort. Maybe if he buys in at SA that talent shows more than it has recently elsewhere.

[heyheymymy]

3) The Spurs front office found a creative loophole to complete this trade. The NBA requires that all teams must “touch” when completing multi-team trades. Previously, teams would typically send second round picks that were unlikely to convey — but that practice was recently outlawed. Sending the rights to foreign players who were unlikely to ever play in the NBA was also outlawed. But instead of sending a second round pick to the Bulls to satisfy the “touch” rule, the Spurs sent Gray. San Antonio had signed Gray to a two-year, two-way contract last season and had him playing in Austin. It’s safe to say the Spurs had previously spotted this loophole and that’s why they gave Gray the second season in the deal. Expect the NBA to eventually remove this two-way contract “touch” loophole. Theoretically, if the Bulls waive Gray, he could clear waivers and re-join the Spurs summer league team by the time they begin play in Las Vegas.

Two-Way Loophole Architect Brian Wright

Brian Wright = B. CORRECT

[LeBowen]

Wow if true that Barnes waived his $3.7MM trade kicker voluntarily that would be interesting.

Yeah, doesn't happen many times.
The last time I remember it reported was AD to Lakers trade.


My theory is that his production is subdued because he became trapped in SAC and was miserable there. Waiving the kicker is like "get me the fuck out of here!" lol

He's not a player who creats for himself much and he just naturally dropped in their pecking order. Just 9 FGA in 29mpg player, was 5th/6th option with Huerter.
I won't be too critical of his defense, it's kind of hard to be a positive defender without a rim protector.
Most important thing is that he knows how to defend, so even if he lost a step, it's going to be fairly easy for him to not get torched with Wemby protecting the rim.


Players play well when they are in good situations. Barnes has a ton of talent. I always thought he held back on effort. Maybe if he buys in at SA that talent shows more than it has recently elsewhere.

Best case scenario would be him becoming the veteran here. As I said the other day, hopefully he's the next Finley.
Just 32, he probably has 5 more years in him. Team friendly deal after tihs one.

[Mr. Body]

10. No NBA team has ever had two Harrisons on the roster at the same time who were both Tarheels.

[mo7888]

It seems to me if you can get Kennard or GTJ, then ypu do that first and figure out the other spots later. Add that outside shooting... of you can squeeze in Mamu and/or Osman, Reed, etc it's an incredible offseason.

[Mr. Body]

It seems to me if you can get Kennard or GTJ, then ypu do that first and figure out the other spots later. Add that outside shooting... of you can squeeze in Mamu and/or Osman, Reed, etc it's an incredible offseason.

My bet is they won't take on a multi year contract. Barnes was a special case.

[Mal]

Wouldnt chaning tax state from California to Texas covers this 4 mil ? Meaning Barnes moving to Spurs will earn more money, than staying in Sacramento ?

I get he would earn 4 mil more, regardless of tax, but still he gained money agreeing to this trade.

[Mr. Body]

Wouldnt chaning tax state from California to Texas covers this 4 mil ? Meaning Barnes moving to Spurs will earn more money, than staying in Sacramento ?

I get he would earn 4 mil more, regardless of tax, but still he gained money agreeing to this trade.

The tax assessment is per game. He'd play 38 games outside of Texas, so the tax savings isn't as high as you'd think, unless things have changed. Also, property taxes are usually about double in Texas than in California, probably depending on locale. You're always paying for it somehow.

[mo7888]

My bet is they won't take on a multi year contract. Barnes was a special case.

Could be. There are good arguments for avoiding it, but at only $8M/per I think the argument is weighted in favor of acquiring another shooter. The asset outweighs the cost.

[tbdog]

Barnes D slipped a bit. But I think it slipped more so because he has Sabonis playing behind him. Barnes stricktly playing the 4 with Wemby behind him, will do fine. Sochan and Vassell are the point of attack defenders. Not bad.

[spursparker9]

Brian Right righting his mistakes on Primo, Wesley and Branham :lobt:

[CGD]

^ I’m not sure Barnes is an automatic starter btw. It’ll all depend on how Castle does this summer and if his play forces their hand.

[LeBowen]

^ I’m not sure Barnes is an automatic starter btw. It’ll all depend on how Castle does this summer and if his play forces their hand.

He is an automatic starter because he's the only wing with a reliable shot.
Or you want to have horrible spacing with Jeremy and Castle?

It's between Jeremy and Castle for the last spot. CP3, Devin, Barnes and Wemby are guaranteed to start.

[Pauleta14]

Wow if true that Barnes waived his $3.7MM trade kicker voluntarily that would be interesting.

My theory is that his production is subdued because he became trapped in SAC and was miserable there. Waiving the kicker is like "get me the fuck out of here!" lol

Players play well when they are in good situations. Barnes has a ton of talent. I always thought he held back on effort. Maybe if he buys in at SA that talent shows more than it has recently elsewhere.

Didn't he get a 15% salary raise as well? It's a nice compensation in itself, makes it easier to waive (smaller) bonus

[Seventyniner]

Barnes might have been promised a starting spot as (partial) compensation for waiving his trade kicker too.

[Darkwaters]

The tax assessment is per game. He'd play 38 games outside of Texas, so the tax savings isn't as high as you'd think, unless things have changed. Also, property taxes are usually about double in Texas than in California, probably depending on locale. You're always paying for it somehow.

It's true that property taxes are substantially higher in Texas, but that hardly makes things a push between the two states. The cost of living in California is dramatically higher in virtually every single category. While property tax percentages are higher in Texas the valuation of the homes is inflated in California, meaning that even a smaller relative slice is still a lot of money.

And being able to avoid that 12.5% state income tax on every home game is an automatic $1.25M in savings in the first year alone.

It's not easy to quantify how much money he'll save by living in Texas instead of California without knowing other details of his life. But he'll absolutely save a dramatic amount of money.

[NickiRasgo]

Brian Aight :fro

[jjspur]

8 million isn't a lot to play with nowadays. Hope Wright has just a little more magic left in him to make a few key signings and the off season will be complete. One more good vet and a couple of minimums should do it.

[exstatic]

8 million isn't a lot to play with nowadays. Hope Wright has just a little more magic left in him to make a few key signings and the off season will be complete. One more good vet and a couple of minimums should do it.

Just judging by their stated desire to not lose Bassey, they’ll probably use it to re-sign him, and retain Mamu and maybe Cedi. Not many outsiders would sign a one year deal or a multi year with unguaranteed years.

[Mr. Body]

It's true that property taxes are substantially higher in Texas, but that hardly makes things a push between the two states. The cost of living in California is dramatically higher in virtually every single category. While property tax percentages are higher in Texas the valuation of the homes is inflated in California, meaning that even a smaller relative slice is still a lot of money.

And being able to avoid that 12.5% state income tax on every home game is an automatic $1.25M in savings in the first year alone.

It's not easy to quantify how much money he'll save by living in Texas instead of California without knowing other details of his life. But he'll absolutely save a dramatic amount of money.

Just keeping it at a level of taxes and fees, Texas is much more expensive in those terms for the average and low-income person than California. Like any conservative state, the burden has been shifted from the rich onto the shoulders of the normal citizen. It's true that California can be expensive in certain areas, because it's a popular place to live, and often people get better services than in red states, where you see decaying education and even basic things like transportation captured by special interests or non-existent.

For a rich player, yes, he's probably getting a bit more money back for living in Texas in terms of housing costs, although moving etc. is not cheap. The point is that the oft-repeated notion that athletes make so much more for living in 'no tax' states like Texas isn't true at all. The way people pay taxes has just been shifted.

[LeBowen]

We don't really need any more fringe rotation players.
The only smaller trade I'd do would be to upgrade Collins, but it's probably not happening.
Other than that, we're waiting on Markkanen or another legit player to become available.

CP3/Tre as two proven point guards, with Castle getting some minutes in that role.
Wemby/Collins/Bassey as bigs.

Devin/Jeremy/Barnes/Keldon/Champagnie for three perimeter positions, with Castle also getting most of his minutes off the ball.
Bring back Mamu and that's about it, no more minutes available. Branham surely gets what's left over.

CP3/Tre/Wesley
Devin/Castle/Branham
Jeremy/Keldon/Champagnie
Barnes/Mamu/Sidy
Wemby/Collins/Bassey

That's probably our 15-man roster on the opening night if we don't get Markkanen, but he'd just most likely replace Keldon in a 1:1 trade.

[Spurs Homer]

Im sure there are many many things to consider and compare and weigh when making a move from sac to sa -
sacramento is a cool place and a quick scenic drive to the bay area - where barnes lived for many years....

his wife - iirc had some things going on also - so it is a drastic change to move to san antonio and again - there are more things to weigh....maybe more things at play here.

I saw an interview once with barnes and his beautiful wife and what struck me was that they were both pretty well educated and impressive...so im going to guess they have invested well and it might be that his nba salary is not even his main income anymore.

What intrigues me in the barnes and chris paul signings is what they are buying into? What vision were they sold on?
Im sure wemby and pop are two main reasons - but it makes me think they like what is brewing with the spurs future and these decisions are something that two pragmatic intelligent vets seemed to buy into and even sacrificed other higher offers/money -
for something in san antonio they have bought into?

interesting...

[Darkwaters]

Just keeping it at a level of taxes and fees, Texas is much more expensive in those terms for the average and low-income person than California. Like any conservative state, the burden has been shifted from the rich onto the shoulders of the normal citizen. It's true that California can be expensive in certain areas, because it's a popular place to live, and often people get better services than in red states, where you see decaying education and even basic things like transportation captured by special interests or non-existent.

For a rich player, yes, he's probably getting a bit more money back for living in Texas in terms of housing costs, although moving etc. is not cheap. The point is that the oft-repeated notion that athletes make so much more for living in 'no tax' states like Texas isn't true at all. The way people pay taxes has just been shifted.

Now you're just making a generalized red vs. blue argument. I'm not interested in hearing party propaganda or even your personal politics. That's not what the topic was about, and that's not what I'm arguing.

But the comment was whether or not he'd save money coming to Texas. Yes, he certainly will. But likely not the full amount of the trade kicker.

[Darkwaters]

Just judging by their stated desire to not lose Bassey, they’ll probably use it to re-sign him, and retain Mamu and maybe Cedi. Not many outsiders would sign a one year deal or a multi year with unguaranteed years.

By my count they'll only have two roster spots available to sign Bassey, Mamu, Cedi and any others that may interest them. That of course assumes they don't make any further moves to reduce roster count.

They almost certainly need another Center on the roster. Hence Bassey is the most obvious target. Beyond that I would prefer they bring back Mamu.

[exstatic]

By my count they'll only have two roster spots available to sign Bassey, Mamu, Cedi and any others that may interest them. That of course assumes they don't make any further moves to reduce roster count.

They almost certainly need another Center on the roster. Hence Bassey is the most obvious target. Beyond that I would prefer they bring back Mamu.

Yeah, I think it would be Mamu/Cedi not both unless Bassey gets nabbed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If he rents out a place instead of owning, the property tax argument goes away.

And Sacramento is a craphole, SA will be a nicer spot too.

[kobyz]

Wow if true that Barnes waived his $3.7MM trade kicker voluntarily that would be interesting.

My theory is that his production is subdued because he became trapped in SAC and was miserable there. Waiving the kicker is like "get me the fuck out of here!" lol

Players play well when they are in good situations. Barnes has a ton of talent. I always thought he held back on effort. Maybe if he buys in at SA that talent shows more than it has recently elsewhere.

Worth to mention that Barnes still makes more money with this trade because of no income tax in Texas, and also Barnes know he has good chance being traded to a contender at the deadline

[Darkwaters]

If he rents out a place instead of owning, the property tax argument goes away.

And Sacramento is a craphole, SA will be a nicer spot too.

That's a really good point. And if I'm Harrison I wouldn't be putting down serious roots. San Antonio has been flipping expiring deals like it's going out of style and he only has two years on his deal. He's probably secure for the next year, but after that who knows?

[jjspur]

Paul Reed recently got waived by Philly, would he be a decent replacement if Bassey's knees are shot ? We could use another decent big who can rebound.

[Darkwaters]

Yeah, I think it would be Mamu/Cedi not both unless Bassey gets nabbed.

If Bassey gets nabbed I would imagine the Spurs would need to consider getting another Center. Carrying only Wemby and Collins means you're only one injury away from either a one-man rotation or persistent very small ball.

So unless somebody gets waived/traded I don't think the Spurs bring back both of Mamu and Cedi.

[kobyz]

Paul Reed recently got waived by Philly, would he be a decent replacement if Bassey's knees are shot ? We could use another decent big who can rebound.

Spurs need to sign one of Paul Reed and Precious Achiuwa, bigs with defensive powers with still promise to develop a 3 point shot

[exstatic]

Paul Reed recently got waived by Philly, would he be a decent replacement if Bassey's knees are shot ? We could use another decent big who can rebound.
Philly fans loved him at first, and really Stanned for him, but supposedly as time went by, he was just never in the right place on O or on D, and didn’t really know the plays. Sounds low IQ. The fans weren’t sorry to see him leave.

[exstatic]

If Bassey gets nabbed I would imagine the Spurs would need to consider getting another Center. Carrying only Wemby and Collins means you're only one injury away from either a one-man rotation or persistent very small ball.

So unless somebody gets waived/traded I don't think the Spurs bring back both of Mamu and Cedi.

You could run Mamu as 3rd string/emergency center.

[Mugen]

Kennard & Mamu would be nice tbh.

[Mugen]

Did people not watch Cedi after the first 20 games last year? I'd rather have Champ in that role than Osman tbh.

[Darkwaters]

You could run Mamu as 3rd string/emergency center.

Yea, I suppose that's true. And they could also get a 2-way guy that plays Center as well. I still think they're likely to target somebody at that position, but they do have other options in a pinch.

I'm just really down on bringing back Cedi. While I liked him a lot I think he'd end up playing a Devontae Graham role where he's racking up more DNPs than minutes.

[ChumpDumper]

If he rents out a place instead of owning, the property tax argument goes away.

And Sacramento is a craphole, SA will be a nicer spot too.

You think landlords eat their property tax costs to the benefit of their tenants?

That really just goes back to the valuation argument, which is valid.

[Arguendo]

Wouldnt chaning tax state from California to Texas covers this 4 mil ? Meaning Barnes moving to Spurs will earn more money, than staying in Sacramento ?

I get he would earn 4 mil more, regardless of tax, but still he gained money agreeing to this trade.
I did the quick math the other day, think it was 48 games in Tx vs in Cali, net saving was about 6.5%, about $2.4m for those games…significant but he’s still leaving will over $1M on the table

[Arguendo]

Just keeping it at a level of taxes and fees, Texas is much more expensive in those terms for the average and low-income person than California. Like any conservative state, the burden has been shifted from the rich onto the shoulders of the normal citizen. It's true that California can be expensive in certain areas, because it's a popular place to live, and often people get better services than in red states, where you see decaying education and even basic things like transportation captured by special interests or non-existent.

For a rich player, yes, he's probably getting a bit more money back for living in Texas in terms of housing costs, although moving etc. is not cheap. The point is that the oft-repeated notion that athletes make so much more for living in 'no tax' states like Texas isn't true at all. The way people pay taxes has just been shifted.
Acting like a 1.6% property tax is in the same realm as a 12.5% income tax is pretty absurd, especially for a high earner. Are you expecting him to buy a $50M house in SA. Is there a $50m dollar house in SA? Even if he bought a $50M dollar house, he’d still save almost a million dollars in taxes over those two yrs in his baller house.

[Darkwaters]

I did the quick math the other day, think it was 48 games in Tx vs in Cali, net saving was about 6.5%, about $2.4m for those games…significant but he’s still leaving will over $1M on the table

Conclusion?

Maybe Barnes is a pretty good guy after all that left money on the table to come to San Antonio?

I could live with that.

[Arguendo]

Conclusion?

Maybe Barnes is a pretty good guy after all that left money on the table to come to San Antonio?

I could live with that.
Definitely. I’m also curious if Spurs are able to reinstate that kicker or add a new one in, that make him whole (better than whole actually as the whole kicker would be state tax free) if he gets moved again
& Spurs rep def factors in, they go out of their way to take care of guys, agents remember that & factor it in

[Spurs Homer]

If he rents out a place instead of owning, the property tax argument goes away.

And Sacramento is a craphole, SA will be a nicer spot too.

Dude, these guys are multimillionaires and have been for over a decade -
they have probably invested and have financial advisors to take care of all that -


they could buy the wife a nice house and then in a couple years - recoup that investment - also -
they probably make way more than their nba salary on investments and endorsements...

what you mention is what you or i would be worrying about...

chris paul's state farm gig probably pays way more than what the spurs will be paying him...

sac is a nice place and a short drive to the bay area - so - just no

[baseline bum]

Conclusion?

Maybe Barnes is a pretty good guy after all that left money on the table to come to San Antonio?

I could live with that.

Probably did it to be in a situation where he gets more minutes. Don't really see how taking a paycut makes someone a good guy, none of us would take paycuts at our jobs.

[baseline bum]

Dude, these guys are multimillionaires and have been for over a decade -
they have probably invested and have financial advisors to take care of all that -


they could buy the wife a nice house and then in a couple years - recoup that investment - also -
they probably make way more than their nba salary on investments and endorsements...

what you mention is what you or i would be worrying about...

chris paul's state farm gig probably pays way more than what the spurs will be paying him...

sac is a nice place and a short drive to the bay area - so - just no

Have financial advisors ripping them off like Tim and Kareem did.

[baseline bum]

If he rents out a place instead of owning, the property tax argument goes away.

And Sacramento is a craphole, SA will be a nicer spot too.

I like Sacramento just for being close enough to take easy weekend trips to Yosemite.

[Spurs Homer]

Have financial advisors ripping them off like Tim and Kareem did.

Id be shocked if there are any sucessful vets who do NOT have advisors...timmy just had some bad luck...im guessing those years barnes lived in the bay area and won a title were years he was banking some real money and investing and so was his wife who i believe is a journalist or editor or something...

interesting story here imo;

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/08/23/how-mavs-forward-harrison-barnes-and-wife-brittany-are-taking-a-sledgehammer-to-the-typical-nba-stereotype/

[baseline bum]

Id be shocked if there are any sucessful vets who do NOT have advisors...timmy just had some bad luck...im guessing those years barnes lived in the bay area and won a title were years he was banking some real money and investing and so was his wife who i believe is a journalist or editor or something...

interesting story here imo;

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/08/23/how-mavs-forward-harrison-barnes-and-wife-brittany-are-taking-a-sledgehammer-to-the-typical-nba-stereotype/

Shady financial advisors and investments are how a ton of players end up broke. ESPN did a documentary about it a few years ago and it was pretty ugly.

[exstatic]

Id be shocked if there are any sucessful vets who do NOT have advisors...timmy just had some bad luck...im guessing those years barnes lived in the bay area and won a title were years he was banking some real money and investing and so was his wife who i believe is a journalist or editor or something...

interesting story here imo;
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/08/23/how-mavs-forward-harrison-barnes-and-wife-brittany-are-taking-a-sledgehammer-to-the-typical-nba-stereotype/

He was on his rookie contract with GS. He made bank later, with Dallas, and then Sacto.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You think landlords eat their property tax costs to the benefit of their tenants?

That really just goes back to the valuation argument, which is valid.

Oh for sure it's getting passed on, just saying that someone like him would see renting as 'rent' as opposed to having to cut that fat county property tax check every January.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I like Sacramento just for being close enough to take easy weekend trips to Yosemite.

It's good for that, no disagreement here. Just meant in general, living in general in Sactown is the suck.

[Mal]

I did the quick math the other day, think it was 48 games in Tx vs in Cali, net saving was about 6.5%, about $2.4m for those games…significant but he’s still leaving will over $1M on the table

He gained 2,4$M from moving from Sacto. He still left 3,7$ M (minus tax) on the table, if trade kicker wasnt blocking whole trade from going through.