Summer League Grades: Spurs vs. Hawks - July 14, 2024

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-hawks-summer-league-grades-5/

I know it's meaningless summer league but Stephon Castle previously looked a lot better than whatever that was out of Risacher, tbh.

[JPB]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-hawks-summer-league-grades-5/

I know it's meaningless summer league but Stephon Castle previously looked a lot better than whatever that was out of Risacher, tbh.

No, he didn't, that's pure cognitive dissonance. Castle had a bad summer league, shooting 37% overall and 25% on 3. That's very bad. It somehow look that he's standing out because he looks a bit more physical than the other bunch skinny rookies around, whch won't be the case in the NBA... As Barkley said, BB is not just about running and jumping, or being "active". Ask non spurs fans, and no one is impressed buy Castle so far.

then, I'll just copy and past what I posted in another thread

Risacher is actually a somehow decent (but also not that great) summer league so far dropping 17pts (7/16, 3/9 on 3, 5rbs, 2blk, 1 steal the game before) getting nice reiviews for his high BBIQ, lengh and mobility... Many Hawks fans I'm reading are actually seeing the potential and rather excited.

Not to mention Risacher's never been sold as a playmaker or 30pt a night guy. Summer league is not really made for that kind of players... He's coming from a pro team with vet PGs. Playing in disorganised BB, among wannabees or rookies trying to assert themselves in messy games isn't the best configuration for him to let his high BBIQ speak... He'll be more comfortable with a real NBA PG and environment, living off of real playmakers in organised BB.

I' still take him everyday over Castle. I see the potential as a 3&D, versatile elite role player. I'm still not sure what Castle role or position even is tbh (just like Sochan) He's not a real PG and not a shooter. that's another young, suposedly versatile prospect who is actually not really elite at anything ...

[Ice009]

How are you not seeing a PG from Castle? Yeah, his shot doesn't look the best/consistent, but he's a very hard worker from the looks and sounds of it, so if anyone can improve their shot, I believe he can.

The PG stuff, sounds like a bit of hate there.

[JPB]

How are you not seeing a PG from Castle? Yeah, his shot doesn't look the best/consistent, but he's a very hard worker from the looks and sounds of it, so if anyone can improve their shot, I believe he can.

The PG stuff, sounds like a bit of hate there.

Being able to play the point in summer league doesn't make you a starting PG on a contender. He's not a natural nor elite at that position, nor a natural passer with great court vision, comparing to others PGs in the league... you guys are too easily impressed or set the bar much too low... It's not about being OK or good, but a GREAT PG.

Many people believed Sochan could play the point too when the "experiemnt" started because he somehow had playmaking skills... But that's the hardest position in the NBA... If spurs find a real natural PG in next year's draft or via trade, Castle won't be our starting point guard.

[LeBowen]

Since you've picked a really strange to hill to die on, there's no point in discussing Castle with you anymore.
I just can't wrap my head around your takes. Have you even watched full summer league games and not just his highlights?

[siraulo23]

it sucks, summer league is a lot less interesting now with Castle out the rest of the games

[JPB]

The PG stuff, sounds like a bit of hate there.


Since you've picked a really strange to hill to die on, there's no point in discussing Castle with you anymore.

I just can't wrap my head around your takes. Have you even watched full summer league games and not just his highlights?

Why would I hate on Castle? I'm a spurs fan, I hope he'll do good. Do I believe he'll be a bonifide star? No, but I'll happily say I was wrong if he does. I'm only judging what I'm seeing hic et nunc, not fantisizing.

But the takes I'm reading here about a kid who objectively didn't have a good summer league are just epic homerism and wishful thniking (I know, just like every year). "Russel Westbrook with skills", "a better Jimmy butler..."... we went from "I'll be happy if we can get an elite role player in this weak draft" to "Castle is the next big thing" after 3 mediocre summer outings. just because the kid can somehow play BB against mostly scrubs... You can put it any way you want, 37% shooting (25% on 3) doesn't keep you on an NBA court, even if he should improve that ofc (hopefully).

You want a more objective opinion? Read what other fanbases are saying. And guess what? There's barely any real chatter around Castle, or just to mention he can't shoot. No one is saying "Crap, we missed on Castle!". And there's barely any hawk fan regretting picking Risacher over him...

but we know how it works, would have the spurs picked Risacher, everyone would praise his BBIQ, versatiltiy, court vision and be happy we didn't get that Castle guy who can't shoot instead. Same for Sheppard who showed much more interesting things than Castle.

Time will tell, but yeah, the overration is glorious probably because spurs despearatly need that seconsd star.

[LeBowen]

I'm only judging what I'm seeing hic et nunc, not fantisizing.

Then you're not seeing things very well.
His point guards skills and PNR ballhandling are way above every expectation and he's definitely going to be a natural point guard.
His passing is also great for a kid his age. Has all the right reads and instincts.
As we're seeing in the playoffs, the biggest quality a player can have other than physical talents (which Castle has) is playing at their own pace and having high IQ.


But the takes I'm reading here about a kid who objectively didn't have a good summer league

Why didn't he have a great summer league? Because of shooting splits?


"Russel Westbrook with skills"

You keep repeating this and noone ever said it, at least not on this forum.
He couldn't be any further away from Russ' playstyle.


"a better Jimmy butler..."

Noone said this, either.
Jimmy was just mentioned because Castle's methodical, slow style of dribbling into the paint with a defender on his back is similar to what Jimmy does.
And Jimmy was also mentioned when someone asked about perimeter all-NBA players who don't have a reliable shot.


"Castle is the next big thing"

I told you already, there are about 5 guards in the entire league who are good enough to be primary ballhandlers while being all-NBA level defenders.
Way less common than being a great shooter and playmaker.


just because the kid can somehow play BB against mostly scrubs

I also have to repeat this one, because your entire post is just copy/pasting the same thing over the past few days.
We're high on his point guard skills and when your teammates are as bad as the opposition, it's hard to be a good point guard.
His passes have great timing and accuracy, they look seamless and not something he's doing just because those sets were practiced.
We've seen every kind of pass of him and most were on point. Even turnovers were the right passes to make, just lacked a bit of communication and execution.


37% shooting (25% on 3) doesn't keep you on an NBA court

You know what else doesn't keep you on NBA court in the playoffs? Being a bad defender.
Even if you're among the best shooters in the league.


You want a more objective opinion? Read what other fanbases are saying. And guess what? There's barely any real chatter around Castle, or just to mention he can't shoot. No one is saying "Crap, we missed on Castle!".

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not many NBA fans follow summer league, especially not if they're fans of teams without lottery picks.

How about this one:
https://old.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1e359p8/stephon_castle_looks_extremely_poised_in_the_pnr/


And there's barely any hawk fan regretting picking Risacher over him...

Yeah, Hawks really needed another point guard after Dejounte fiasco.
It's all about the fit and need.
Not many teams in top10 needed a point guard.


but we know how it works, would have the spurs picked Risacher, everyone would praise his BBIQ, versatiltiy, court vision and be happy we didn't get that Castle guy who can't shoot instead.

What if I told you both can become good players?
Risacher didn't offer anything in terms of self-creation last night, as someone said, we got Risacher in Barnes.


Same for Sheppard who showed much more interesting things than Castle.

We'll see how those interesting things translate against the big boys who are going to hunt him on defense all game long and when he won't be able to rack up steals because of bad execution by the opposition.
Getting into the paint against actual NBA defenders when you lack size is also way harder.


Time will tell, but yeah, the overration is glorious probably because spurs despearatly need that seconsd star.

Your overreaction is also glorious because Sheppard's game wasn't much better than Castle's and Rockets have a way more functional roster.

We're overreacting because we expected a combo guard who's going to need to learn all the point guard nuances and tricks, but instead we got a 6'6 point guard with high IQ who plays like a veteran.
As I wrote, two-way point guards are extremely rare in today's league.

It's fine if you don't like Castle, we all have our preferences and concerns about his shot are valid, but you saying that he's not a point guard just makes you look like you either didn't watch the games or don't know what you're talking about.

[Ice009]

Being able to play the point in summer league doesn't make you a starting PG on a contender. He's not a natural nor elite at that position, nor a natural passer with great court vision, comparing to others PGs in the league... you guys are too easily impressed or set the bar much too low... It's not about being OK or good, but a GREAT PG.

Many people believed Sochan could play the point too when the "experiemnt" started because he somehow had playmaking skills... But that's the hardest position in the NBA... If spurs find a real natural PG in next year's draft or via trade, Castle won't be our starting point guard.

If you're going to bang on about this. How many games of his have you watched? You do know the system at UCONN wasn't built around him playing PG, but his college coach seems to have full confidence in him.

Tony Parker wasn't a great PG. I think Castle is already showing things TP didn't as far as vision and passing goes. TP was a great player, but I don't think he was the best PG. He could play PG, but was more of a scoring guard, not really a traditional PG (Pop sort of tried to balance it out and have him meet in the middle). Early on, it seems to me that the Spurs wanted to move TP to SG when they went after J Kidd. I don't think they're going to do that with Castle as I think they're already seeing him as a PG.

Just because Castle hasn't shot well, doesn't mean he hasn't show other good things out there that look very promising.

[Dejounte]

Will you guys stop paying attention to JPB? The guy is clearly doubling down on his bad takes. Giving Risacher a lot of room for error while giving Castle none. Then taking Hawks fans feedback on how well Risacher is playing while ignoring Spurs fans feedback on Castle. The guy might as well be a Hawks fan with how much he’s hugging Risacher’s nuts tbh.

The guy is more concerned about other people’s opinions on Castle than putting in any effort to correct his own. He wants you all to have the same opinion as him and will write endless paragraphs about it. It’s clear he’s spent zero minutes on actually watching Castle play. What we have here is a bonafide troll who doesn’t care about being wrong and has an inflated ego that will never admit he’s wrong.

[Uriel]

I'll admit, Risacher was #1 on my big board before the draft and I thought he was the perfect fit for the current roster. But after the Spurs went ahead and got Barnes and Castle showed off his playmaking skills, I've become much happier with the Castle pick.

I haven't seen enough of Risacher's play to make a judgment on who between him and Castle has had the better summer league so far. But I definitely don't agree with the notion that Castle has had a bad summer league, or that only Spurs fans have been impressed with his play. This tweet from Kevin O'Connor, for instance, shows him getting plaudits from the national media:
1812505586581614925
Again, this isn't a judgment of who between Castle and Risacher is better. But it is to say that I like what I've seen from Castle so far and I'm excited for his future.

[exstatic]

No, he didn't, that's pure cognitive dissonance. Castle had a bad summer league, shooting 37% overall and 25% on 3. That's very bad. It somehow look that he's standing out because he looks a bit more physical than the other bunch skinny rookies around, whch won't be the case in the NBA... As Barkley said, BB is not just about running and jumping, or being "active". Ask non spurs fans, and no one is impressed buy Castle so far.

then, I'll just copy and past what I posted in another thread

Risacher is actually a somehow decent (but also not that great) summer league so far dropping 17pts (7/16, 3/9 on 3, 5rbs, 2blk, 1 steal the game before) getting nice reiviews for his high BBIQ, lengh and mobility... Many Hawks fans I'm reading are actually seeing the potential and rather excited.

Not to mention Risacher's never been sold as a playmaker or 30pt a night guy. Summer league is not really made for that kind of players... He's coming from a pro team with vet PGs. Playing in disorganised BB, among wannabees or rookies trying to assert themselves in messy games isn't the best configuration for him to let his high BBIQ speak... He'll be more comfortable with a real NBA PG and environment, living off of real playmakers in organised BB.

I' still take him everyday over Castle. I see the potential as a 3&D, versatile elite role player. I'm still not sure what Castle role or position even is tbh (just like Sochan) He's not a real PG and not a shooter. that's another young, suposedly versatile prospect who is actually not really elite at anything ...

French Nationalism, at its finest.

[ginobilized]

Castle looks great to me, the nuances and micro-skills of his game are so strong, especially for a 19 yr old.
He'll raise the IQ of the team a bit just by himself. It will be wild to see the low-IQ guys (you know who) trying to get to their places and make better decisions.
CP3, HB, Wemby and Castle will be leading the way for them, hopefully, they can follow.

[Darkwaters]

Castle's shooting is about where we expected it to be. But with everything else he's better than advertised.

Now if we want to talk about prospects that are underwhelming we can have a conversation about Ingram and Cissoko. But Castle is not a party to that conversation.

[Mr. Body]

No, he didn't, that's pure cognitive dissonance. Castle had a bad summer league, shooting 37% overall and 25% on 3. That's very bad. It somehow look that he's standing out because he looks a bit more physical than the other bunch skinny rookies around, whch won't be the case in the NBA... As Barkley said, BB is not just about running and jumping, or being "active". Ask non spurs fans, and no one is impressed buy Castle so far.

then, I'll just copy and past what I posted in another thread

Risacher is actually a somehow decent (but also not that great) summer league so far dropping 17pts (7/16, 3/9 on 3, 5rbs, 2blk, 1 steal the game before) getting nice reiviews for his high BBIQ, lengh and mobility... Many Hawks fans I'm reading are actually seeing the potential and rather excited.

Not to mention Risacher's never been sold as a playmaker or 30pt a night guy. Summer league is not really made for that kind of players... He's coming from a pro team with vet PGs. Playing in disorganised BB, among wannabees or rookies trying to assert themselves in messy games isn't the best configuration for him to let his high BBIQ speak... He'll be more comfortable with a real NBA PG and environment, living off of real playmakers in organised BB.

I' still take him everyday over Castle. I see the potential as a 3&D, versatile elite role player. I'm still not sure what Castle role or position even is tbh (just like Sochan) He's not a real PG and not a shooter. that's another young, suposedly versatile prospect who is actually not really elite at anything ...

Man, I don't know how you can't see the difference between these two players right now. It's like night and day.

[Mr. Body]

The whiners will hate it, but this is a well-coached team. Trevino's done very well.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

French Nationalism, at its finest.

You likely found the reason behind. Everyone watched castle can see he has great PG skills except a French Nationalist.

[onechance87]

Castle's shooting is about where we expected it to be. But with everything else he's better than advertised.

Now if we want to talk about prospects that are underwhelming we can have a conversation about Ingram and Cissoko. But Castle is not a party to that conversation.

well they are late second round picks.Tho i believe we could of got some better player then ingram like spencer and alexander.But ingram
does play hard,But does nothing really special just like sidy.

[exstatic]

well they are late second round picks.Tho i believe we could of got some better player then ingram like spencer and alexander.But ingram
does play hard,But does nothing really special just like sidy.

Our second SRP has to be someone who agrees to a 2 way, because we’ll have a full 15 man roster.

[onechance87]

Our second SRP has to be someone who agrees to a 2 way, because we’ll have a full 15 man roster.

spencer and alexander are on two way contracts rn.Spurs just didnt want them.

[JPB]

What this team and Wemby needs around him, to space the floor and so he's not triple teammed is (braeking news!) shooters, which everyone agreed during the year and before the draft. This team needs shooting all around Vic.We already have Sochan who can't shoot, adding another chucker in the SL wouldn't do it. Teams would pack the paint.

If Castle can't knock his shots, and notably his 3s, his value massively drops around Vic. Everyone can make cuts or knock a FT line shot here or there. Hell, Tre was pretty decent at that with Wemby. That's why I also beleve spurs could have been after Sheppard, which could have been great for this team. probably not a superstar but a great complementary player. the finding their PG next year.

Now let's hope Castle can "fix" his shot, and why not. But factually, spurs drafted another guard/player who can't shoot in hope he'll learned how to.

[SpursBills]

How well someone shoots in summer league isn't the end-all, be-all, the reason people are excited about both Castle and Sheppard's performances in summer league is that they are showing parts of their game that defy what their doubters claimed and increases their star equity.

Castle's detractors claimed that he was a non-shooting wing with average size who had a high chance of not developing in the league. But he showed the ability to be a true point guard and decision making chops far and above that of a connective wing. His jump shot is still in doubt, but even that looked slightly better than the timid shooting that we saw at times at UConn last year. The list of guys his size with his poise and passing acumen in the league is a thimbleful, making his upside unique.

Sheppard's detractors claimed that he was a 6'1" shooting guard who would max out as a bench shooter. But he clearly showed ability to be a primary initiating point guard as well as a assortment of floaters and an advanced in-between game that allows him to leverage his touch and become a high level creator. This unlocks his passing vision, which many of his detractors also doubted as well as his advance BBIQ. The list of guys with his shooting touch and feel for the game primary consists of stars in the league, which again makes his upside unique.

Risacher didn't show me much more than what I already knew in the games that he watched, his handles were shaky at best, and his value continues to be leveraged based purely on his shot. Maybe he shows more once he gets started, but unlike the above two players he didn't necessarily show anything that defied what his critics were claiming which is why people are more excited about Castle and Sheppard.

In my last big board, I had Sheppard in his own tier at 1, Castle in his own tier at 2, and everybody else below them. Before the draft, I thought that Sheppard would more likely be a good player, while Castle had the higher potential to be a great one if he developed properly. I'm still sticking by that assessment and comparison, but I've leveled up the caliber of players that both Sheppard and Castle can develop into as both have shown things beyond what their respective detractors claimed.

[MannyIsGod]

No, he didn't, that's pure cognitive dissonance. Castle had a bad summer league, shooting 37% overall and 25% on 3. That's very bad. It somehow look that he's standing out because he looks a bit more physical than the other bunch skinny rookies around, whch won't be the case in the NBA... As Barkley said, BB is not just about running and jumping, or being "active". Ask non spurs fans, and no one is impressed buy Castle so far.

then, I'll just copy and past what I posted in another thread

Risacher is actually a somehow decent (but also not that great) summer league so far dropping 17pts (7/16, 3/9 on 3, 5rbs, 2blk, 1 steal the game before) getting nice reiviews for his high BBIQ, lengh and mobility... Many Hawks fans I'm reading are actually seeing the potential and rather excited.

Not to mention Risacher's never been sold as a playmaker or 30pt a night guy. Summer league is not really made for that kind of players... He's coming from a pro team with vet PGs. Playing in disorganised BB, among wannabees or rookies trying to assert themselves in messy games isn't the best configuration for him to let his high BBIQ speak... He'll be more comfortable with a real NBA PG and environment, living off of real playmakers in organised BB.

I' still take him everyday over Castle. I see the potential as a 3&D, versatile elite role player. I'm still not sure what Castle role or position even is tbh (just like Sochan) He's not a real PG and not a shooter. that's another young, suposedly versatile prospect who is actually not really elite at anything ...


This is nonsense. I've seen a LOT of excitement over Castle from general NBA types.

[Darkwaters]

Our second SRP has to be someone who agrees to a 2 way, because we’ll have a full 15 man roster.

And that's a fair point. And it's possible Ingram was the best player they were both willing to draft and was willing to take a 2 way.

That doesn't change the fact that he's been underwhelming.

Cissoko was drafted last season though knowing full well he'd have to come over immediately because of his buyout. It's strange that the Spurs traded away the #33 but then kept the #44 pick and took a guy they had to put on the main club and not a 2-way.

[JPB]

How well someone shoots in summer league isn't the end-all, be-all, the reason people are excited about both Castle and Sheppard's performances in summer league is that they are showing parts of their game that defy what their doubters claimed and increases their star equity.

Castle's number one red flag was shooting and summer league games (for what they're worth) confirmed it.


Castle's detractors claimed that he was a non-shooting wing with average size who had a high chance of not developing in the league. But he showed the ability to be a true point guard and decision making chops far and above that of a connective wing.

he didn't show anything that indicates he could be an elite/top PG in the NBA, along the SGAs, Brunsons or Maxeys of the wordl, which is what this team needs. Again, I believe you guys are setting the bar too low. Same reasoning that lead to Sochan at PG.




His jump shot is still in doubt, but even that looked slightly better than the timid shooting that we saw at times at UConn last year. The list of guys his size with his poise and passing acumen in the league is a thimbleful, making his upside unique.


that's why I mean by epic homerism. Most people had never heatd about the guy 4 months and no one even before the draft was presenting him like you do or giving hi mthat ceiling... But Spurs draft him, the bam! and after 3 meh summer leagues games, he's "one in a thimbful" with a "unique upside"... No one here would say that of him if another team drafted him.

[spurraider21]

Guy says you should talk to non spurs fans about castle but then makes an argument that hawks fans are seeing something in RisacherTho castles reviews have been good everywhere I’ve read

[Frenchfred]

Castle is as expected but if he cannot improve his shooting then he is useless. This year is another tanking year for the Spurs are they are aiming for a high pick for the next draft so no pressure on Castle, he will have a full season to improve his shot

[JPB]

Guy says you should talk to non spurs fans about castle but then makes an argument that hawks fans are seeing something in RisacherTho castles reviews have been good everywhere I’ve read

I raised my case, If he can't shoot, he'll actually be a poor man's Russell westbrook out there, who thrived at the start of his career then started to decline when the NBA became all over the 3.

But that's strange that Russ could never "fix" his shot (30% 3 point career shooter)... iI's the easiest thing to fix I've heard.

[Mr. Body]

Have to really agree with Bill here, as usual his assessments are strongly considered. Shooting is sort of chaff, or fluff, at this point. It's such a small sample of games. Shooting can be ephemeral but also improved.

The huge thing here is how those shots are achieved, how a player is using the court and sees what's going on, how they're processing and involved in stepped-up circumstances. Those micro-skills, as mentioned above. Thrown into a new situation with new players, how is this guy playing basketball under new orders? There was a possession where Risacher was isolated on the wing trying to breakdown his defender. I'm sure Atlanta wanted to see how he did in that situation. (Multiple dribble moves going nowhere, coughed the ball up - but this isn't a bad thing, just information.)

Risacher often faded into the background, needed to be activated, showed the issues he's shown before with a lack of creation skills, both for himself or others. He's fleet of foot and mobile and gets his shot off very quickly and willingly. I think there's a player here, but possibly a role-player at most.

Castle showed dominant skills. No, it's true he was busting his mid-range jumpers and not executing exactly at all times, but that comes with polish. It's how he was using his body, snaking screens, re-setting, seeing the floor, picking guys out. Yeah, as said, this is a point guard or dangerous secondary playmaker. It's not the lack of polish (here or there) or a jumper that needs to be worked on. He's nineteen and has ten, maybe fifteen years ahead of him. What he's showing is a great feel for the game that can't be taught plus superb skills for a young player.

As for Reed, he's looked phenomenal, but my thoughts from college still linger, that he's going to get targeted and that he's a stat-stuffer who doesn't always dominate. Not bad things! Houston can hide him and they don't need a leader or focus. He's perfect for them, a connector who can hit phenomenal passes and shoot highly efficiently. I still take Castle for the Spurs at this point, and Sheppard fits Houston better.

[SpursBills]

Castle's number one red flag was shooting and summer league games (for what they're worth) confirmed it.



he didn't show anything that indicates he could be an elite/top PG in the NBA, along the SGAs, Brunsons or Maxeys of the wordl, which is what this team needs. Again, I believe you guys are setting the bar too low. Same reasoning that lead to Sochan at PG.





that's why I mean by epic homerism. Most people had never heatd about the guy 4 months and no one even before the draft was presenting him like you do or giving hi mthat ceiling... But Spurs draft him, the bam! and after 3 meh summer leagues games, he's "one in a thimbful" with a "unique upside"... No one here would say that of him if another team drafted him.

Let's see if your point is valid - you may be conflating what I say by using the word "unique" with "great" - I'm just saying that his archetype of a big defending wing with passing chops is more rare than other archetypes

But to put this to the test, let's take a look at some other guys of his archetype in the league

Marcus Smart
Jrue Holiday
Dyson Daniels
Anthony Black
Jalen Suggs

I don't remember what Holiday looked like at age 19 and the same holds for Daniels; I think that age 19 Castle showed more than what age 20 Black showed thus far at summer league with regards to control on his handle and his passing acumen
I remember Marcus Smart when he first started, I had significant reservations about his ability to play lead guard at the time, concerns that I don't have with Castle after seeing him play in that role this summer league
Suggs I think looked decent in summer league, but again I don't remember liking his passing as much as I did Castle

All this to say, yes you are right, nobody knows if Castle is going to do anything in the league. But he has shown more as a passer than many guys of his similar archetype have shown at a similar age. It doesn't mean that he'll develop in the same way, and his shot will still be what holds him back if he fails, but people still have a right to get excited over what they've seen.

[LeBowen]

What this team and Wemby needs around him, to space the floor and so he's not triple teammed is (braeking news!) shooters, which everyone agreed during the year and before the draft. This team needs shooting all around Vic.We already have Sochan who can't shoot, adding another chucker in the SL wouldn't do it. Teams would pack the paint.

Why would Sochan be a guaranteed feature on future rosters?
Sochan has zero offensive skills.
He's shooting 52% at the rim if we exclude dunks, which are uncontested due to his lack of athleticism.
He's below 50% if we exclude uncontested fastbreak layups.

He's shown that he can't handle the ball well enough and that he lacks passing IQ.
Castle is already better in every aspect of the game than him. He just has like 3 inches on Castle and that's about it.


If Castle can't knock his shots, and notably his 3s, his value massively drops around Vic. Everyone can make cuts or knock a FT line shot here or there. Hell, Tre was pretty decent at that with Wemby.

Exactly, our net rating was great with Tre who got torched by every competent point guard.
Tre's 3pt percentage is deceiving beacause he can't shoot anything other than corner 3pts well enough.


That's why I also beleve spurs could have been after Sheppard, which could have been great for this team. probably not a superstar but a great complementary player. the finding their PG next year.

I don't understand this bit.
Sheppard won't be a point of attack defender in the NBA, so you'd draft another point guard next year. Then Sheppard would be a bench player, I guess?
You'd use a #3 pick to draft a 6'3 guard who's not a great defender and can't be the lead guard?


Now let's hope Castle can "fix" his shot, and why not. But factually, spurs drafted another guard/player who can't shoot in hope he'll learned how to.

You're really trying to spin the narrative here, so I'll repeat once again.

SGA
Ant
Derrick
Jrue
Suggs
Smart

That's the entire list of all-defense players who can consistently initiate the offense.

The difference between "can't shoot" (Jeremy) and "bad shooter" (Castle) is exponentially bigger than the difference between a bad and a good shooter.
Forget about the percentages, Jeremy is alone in the gym and given Ben Simmons treatment and is still at 28% from 3pt in two seasons.
Castle's off the dribble threes he made are lightyears ahead of Jeremy's shooting and while he's a bad shooter, his form is fine. Just needs some tweaks to his base and back to make it more consistent.

I'm not going to lie, it's really annoying that you just keep parroting the same nonsense over and over again, only to ignore any arguments that point out how wrong you are. Then you come back a day or two later and repeat the same stuff over and over again.



I raised my case, If he can't shoot, he'll actually be a poor man's Russell westbrook out there, who thrived at the start of his career then started to decline when the NBA became all over the 3.

But that's strange that Russ could never "fix" his shot (30% 3 point career shooter)... iI's the easiest thing to fix I've heard.

How the hell can a 6'6 guard who's entire game right now looks like it's about forcing the defense to play at his pace and methodical snake dribbles in the paint be compared to a 6'3 specimen like Westbrook who just ran at people full speed all game long?

You can't name any other players in the league so you just mention Westbrook?
Also, if Castle is a poor-man's MVP at his peak, then we're good.

You don't have a case to rest.

[SpursBills]

I raised my case, If he can't shoot, he'll actually be a poor man's Russell westbrook out there, who thrived at the start of his career then started to decline when the NBA became all over the 3.

But that's strange that Russ could never "fix" his shot (30% 3 point career shooter)... iI's the easiest thing to fix I've heard.

:lol I'm not usually very confident in my predictions, but I'm pretty confident that you're going to get some shit for this comp

[Pauleta14]

How are you not seeing a PG from Castle? Yeah, his shot doesn't look the best/consistent, but he's a very hard worker from the looks and sounds of it, so if anyone can improve their shot, I believe he can.

The PG stuff, sounds like a bit of hate there.

I'm with you on Castle, he's worth the patience at least to see if he can become an elite PG.

But I understand JPB's pov, he's right factually, Castle isn't a prototypical PG and is a bad shooter. Having doubt is perfectly legitimate imo

You can both be right, Castle will technically be used at the PG position but might not have the attitude and leadership of one bc of his (present at least) limitations, the fact that Wemby will idealy take a lot of the playmaking duties and Spurs will as usual play "positionless" bb with movement and passing that will mitigate Castles's lack of "floor general" abilities.

Castle has great chances of becoming an elite role player for us and who knows what impact Cp3 will have on him?

Either an SGA or a Jrue profile...

[rjv]

timvp > jpb < ST

[Pauleta14]

You likely found the reason behind. Everyone watched castle can see he has great PG skills except a French Nationalist.


French Nationalism, at its finest.

I hope you're just being sarcastic especially if you're both americans :lol

I'm french and happy with Castle, but that's some weak copping ad hominem technic right here ...

[Bruno]

With Castle out, SL games are quite useless to me.

Spurs have done a decent job a building a quite good main rotation but after that, their roster is just plain bad.
The main rotation with 11 players (Paul, Vassell, Barnes, Sochan, Wembanyama, Jones, Castle, Branham, Champagnie, Johnson and Collins) isn't playoff material but it's well build.
After these 11 players, there isn't a single player who looks promising. I find that Spurs could have do a way better use of these 4 regular roster spots and 3 two-way spots. Cissoko, Wesley, Ingram and Bouyea are "meh" prospects.

[Dejounte]

I'm with you on Castle, he's worth the patience at least to see if he can become an elite PG.

But I understand JPB's pov, he's right factually, Castle isn't a prototypical PG and is a bad shooter. Having doubt is perfectly legitimate imo

You can both be right, Castle will technically be used at the PG position but might not have the attitude and leadership of one bc of his (present at least) limitations, the fact that Wemby will idealy take a lot of the playmaking duties and Spurs will as usual play "positionless" bb with movement and passing that will mitigate Castles's lack of "floor general" abilities.

Castle has great chances of becoming an elite role player for us and who knows what impact Cp3 will have on him?

Either an SGA or a Jrue profile...

Castle looked very much the part of a floor general every minute he played. That is why everyone who is now getting the chance to see him play that role is impressed. They are seeing him set everyone up almost flawlessly. These are abilities that were not showcased during his college career. The opinions of many are lagging behind on this aspect of Castle’s abilities, and downplaying what’s being shown just because it’s summer league. The thing is, nearly every prospect that has played has shown the same stuff they showed before they were drafted. Castle is one of the few that’s showing something new. If you have time, find a full game to watch of the summer league games that Castle played in. It’s a far cry from past attempts at the PG spot by other players.

[JPB]

Again, I hope Castle wii do good and I believe he will, he got skills. Good/Elite role player would just fine with me. I don't believe he's Wemby's Robin.

But experience tells me to wait and see how his rookie season goes before determining his ceiling. And I'm certainly not gonna hype myself and fall into what seems a collective hysteria after 3 summer league games where he shot terribly, just because he showed intersting things against other rookies or fringe NBA players... And I don't care if he's a #4 or #15 pick.

I believe some of you guys are putting your expectations way too high, way too quick, with way too little, so far. It takes much more than that for me and I'll wait for Castle to show me he's legit and frst of all, that he can shoot the ball before tagging him as a future HOFer (which reading your comments many of you already do). His first season should be growing pains, specially if he doesn't have defined role and shots the ball poorly.

[KobesAchilles]

Unfortunately Castle has proven that he can’t be our starting PG this coming year. He couldn’t even beat out a 75yo CP3. That’s not a good thing. And the reason he won’t start is bc he can’t shoot.

Sure you have posters like LeBowen who have convinced themselves that learning how to shoot is easy for guards :lol and that by no time at all Castle will be a 40% 3point shooter on high volume. Or you have posters like Dejounte who for some reason think that a PG not being able to shoot/make high volume 3s is no big deal for a championship team going forward. Even though 9 out of the past 10 championship teams have had PGs shooting/making a high volume of 3 pointers. I’m still shocked that was even said tbh.

So i am rooting for Castle to beat out Tre Jones as the back up point guard. If he is our back up SG going forward then it’s just another waste of a season for our young talent. Something that Pop loves to do, Wemby included.

[LeBowen]

Unfortunately Castle has proven that he can’t be our starting PG this coming year.

Based on a couple of Summer League games?
He hasn't proven or disproven shit.


He couldn’t even beat out a 75yo CP3. That’s not a good thing.

The only reason CP3 agreed to come is the starting role.


And the reason he won’t start is bc he can’t shoot.

Yet Jeremy will start.
I'm willing to bet that Jeremy will lose his spot to Castle within a couple of months if he doesn't improve as not just a shooter, but as a player overall.

This following part is such a low level strawman I honestly don't know why I bother with some of you.


Sure you have posters like LeBowen who have convinced themselves that learning how to shoot is easy for guards

Is English your first language? If it is, then I feel sorry for you because your reading comprehension skills are very low.
Or you just skim through posts, read out of context and don't read the entire discussion.

I didn't say learning how to shoot is easy, I just said we've had plenty of cases where poor shooters improved drastically, even in their late 20s or early 30s, but on the other hand I can't recall any guards who had no point guard skills when they entered the league and developed them later.
Learning how to shoot isn't easy, but is way easier than developing nuances of point guard position.

I also said that people who just look at percentages without context don't actually watch games.
Jeremy's career 28% on Ben Simmons contests where he's dared to shoot is already a few years back from what we've seen from Castle because he actualy hit a few off the dribble.
Is he a bad shooter? Obviously.
Is he a non-shooter? That would be Jeremy.

I'll repeat it again. The gap between non-shooters and bad shooters is bigger than the gap between bad shooters and good shooters.


:lol and that by no time at all Castle will be a 40% 3point shooter on high volume.

Noone said that, you're just talking out of your ass because you've got no actual arguments.


Or you have posters like Dejounte who for some reason think that a PG not being able to shoot/make high volume 3s is no big deal for a championship team going forward. Even though 9 out of the past 10 championship teams have had PGs shooting/making a high volume of 3 pointers. I’m still shocked that was even said tbh.

2024 Celtics: Derrick was a career 33% 3pt shooter in his first 6 seasons. Jrue was a career 35% shooter on low volume in his first 11 seasons.
2023 Nuggets: Didn't have an actual point guard. Murray despite his explosions is a career 38% shooter. In his first 4 seasons he was at 35% from 3pt.
2022 Warriors: Steph.
2021 Bucks: Already mentioned Jrue who shot exactly 30% on 6 attempts in 2021 playoffs.
2020 Lakers: No actual point guard.
2019 Raptors: Career 36% shooter up to that point and shot 36% in 2019 playoffs. Was at 30% in his first 4 seasons.
2018 Warriors: Steph
2017 Warriors: Steph
2016 Cavaliers: Kyrie
2015 Warriors: Steph

Where's your 9/10?
Stop talking out of your ass.

The worst thing of it all is that you name players in their late 20s or even 30s as great high volume shooters, but other than Steph and Kyrie none of them came into the league as great 3pt shooters.
Other than obvious all-time great prospects, but you're not getting a point guard who's a great defender, playmaker and shooter in his rookie year. Especially with #4 pick in a weak draft.

I'll say it again.

Jrue
Derrick
SGA
Ant
Suggs
Smart

That's the list of all-defense level guards who are also solid enough as traditional lead guards.
I'd say that Jrue, Derrick and SGA are the only traditional point guards with all-defense capabilities.

It's as rare of an archetype as elite 3pt shooting big men and not having to cross match or hide your point guard gives massive value to the team.

Castle's ceiling will be limited and determined by his shot, but it's just amazing how some of you are so confident with your claims only to be so off the mark it looks like blatant trolling and baiting.

[TD 21]

Why would I hate on Castle? I'm a spurs fan, I hope he'll do good. Do I believe he'll be a bonifide star? No, but I'll happily say I was wrong if he does. I'm only judging what I'm seeing hic et nunc, not fantisizing.

But the takes I'm reading here about a kid who objectively didn't have a good summer league are just epic homerism and wishful thniking (I know, just like every year). "Russel Westbrook with skills", "a better Jimmy butler..."... we went from "I'll be happy if we can get an elite role player in this weak draft" to "Castle is the next big thing" after 3 mediocre summer outings. just because the kid can somehow play BB against mostly scrubs... You can put it any way you want, 37% shooting (25% on 3) doesn't keep you on an NBA court, even if he should improve that ofc (hopefully).

You want a more objective opinion? Read what other fanbases are saying. And guess what? There's barely any real chatter around Castle, or just to mention he can't shoot. No one is saying "Crap, we missed on Castle!". And there's barely any hawk fan regretting picking Risacher over him...

but we know how it works, would have the spurs picked Risacher, everyone would praise his BBIQ, versatiltiy, court vision and be happy we didn't get that Castle guy who can't shoot instead. Same for Sheppard who showed much more interesting things than Castle.

Time will tell, but yeah, the overration is glorious probably because spurs despearatly need that seconsd star.

:lmao Homer logic = anyone being objective is a "hater".

Castle has been fine and more or less what I expected. The bar has just been so low for non Wembanyama youth for so long that anyone who looks more promising than the usual riff raff is immediately deemed a future star.

[Mr. Body]

All this about Castle and it's his playmaking and point skills and no one's even talking about his defense. Once he's engaged in a team structure this may also really pop.

Great size, strength, and pace for his position, mature skills for his age, evidently strong bbiq, strong passer, and potentially very good defender. I don't even think he lacks value if he's a variable shooter: you'd have to retool the lineup, but a basic pick and roll busts him free and if he and Wemby can develop some chemistry, then it's a lot of trouble to guard. Basically, I don't think he has to have a deep threat to immediately punish defenses.

And then if he does become a threat.

[KobesAchilles]

Based on a couple of Summer League games?
He hasn't proven or disproven shit.



The only reason CP3 agreed to come is the starting role.



Yet Jeremy will start.
I'm willing to bet that Jeremy will lose his spot to Castle within a couple of months if he doesn't improve as not just a shooter, but as a player overall.

This following part is such a low level strawman I honestly don't know why I bother with some of you.



Is English your first language? If it is, then I feel sorry for you because your reading comprehension skills are very low.
Or you just skim through posts, read out of context and don't read the entire discussion.

I didn't say learning how to shoot is easy, I just said we've had plenty of cases where poor shooters improved drastically, even in their late 20s or early 30s, but on the other hand I can't recall any guards who had no point guard skills when they entered the league and developed them later.
Learning how to shoot isn't easy, but is way easier than developing nuances of point guard position.

I also said that people who just look at percentages without context don't actually watch games.
Jeremy's career 28% on Ben Simmons contests where he's dared to shoot is already a few years back from what we've seen from Castle because he actualy hit a few off the dribble.
Is he a bad shooter? Obviously.
Is he a non-shooter? That would be Jeremy.

I'll repeat it again. The gap between non-shooters and bad shooters is bigger than the gap between bad shooters and good shooters.



Noone said that, you're just talking out of your ass because you've got no actual arguments.



2024 Celtics: Derrick was a career 33% 3pt shooter in his first 6 seasons. Jrue was a career 35% shooter on low volume in his first 11 seasons.
2023 Nuggets: Didn't have an actual point guard. Murray despite his explosions is a career 38% shooter. In his first 4 seasons he was at 35% from 3pt.
2022 Warriors: Steph.
2021 Bucks: Already mentioned Jrue who shot exactly 30% on 6 attempts in 2021 playoffs.
2020 Lakers: No actual point guard.
2019 Raptors: Career 36% shooter up to that point and shot 36% in 2019 playoffs. Was at 30% in his first 4 seasons.
2018 Warriors: Steph
2017 Warriors: Steph
2016 Cavaliers: Kyrie
2015 Warriors: Steph

Where's your 9/10?
Stop talking out of your ass.

The worst thing of it all is that you name players in their late 20s or even 30s as great high volume shooters, but other than Steph and Kyrie none of them came into the league as great 3pt shooters.
Other than obvious all-time great prospects, but you're not getting a point guard who's a great defender, playmaker and shooter in his rookie year. Especially with #4 pick in a weak draft.

I'll say it again.

Jrue
Derrick
SGA
Ant
Suggs
Smart

That's the list of all-defense level guards who are also solid enough as traditional lead guards.
I'd say that Jrue, Derrick and SGA are the only traditional point guards with all-defense capabilities.

It's as rare of an archetype as elite 3pt shooting big men and not having to cross match or hide your point guard gives massive value to the team.

Castle's ceiling will be limited and determined by his shot, but it's just amazing how some of you are so confident with your claims only to be so off the mark it looks like blatant trolling and baiting.
I’m too lazy to find it but you 100% did say that learning to shoot was easy. Don’t backtrack that now. Also you want to say strawman to me but your whole post is strawman. Sochan is the fucking power forward. I expect my power forward to struggle with shooting. I don’t expect it with my starting point guard. Also why would Castle replace Sochan as a starter? Special kind of stupid if you want Castle to play power forward. Only on fucking Spurstalk man.

Castle shot 26% from 3 in college. He’s sub 30 on the GL from 3. But yet you think he’s going to magically rise that up to 35% or something? Dude can’t shoot. Also bringing up career 3 point percentage is the ultimate strawman. You make it seem like Kyle Lowry wasn’t a good shooter. You keep bringing up Derrick whites first 6 seasons in the league like that means something. I didn’t know that White won 7 championships in a row.

To quote Lebowen: is English your first language? Bc otherwise I feel sorry for blah blah blah insert bullshit here. I clearly said championship teams and you bring up Whites first 6 seasons in the league. Dumbass. But my my my reading comprehension:cry

What was Whites 3 point percentage this year when he won the actual fucking championship dipshit.
Basically you proved me correct anyways. Jrue shot a high percentage and high amount of 3s. Same with White. Same with Kyle Lowry. Same with Jamal Murray who is the actual point guard of the Nuggets. You just don’t watch basketball so you make it seem like he isn’t. Dude averaged 27 and 8 in the playoffs that year and brought the ball up court and ran the offense and yet he isn’t a point guard bc… Lebowen says so. Oh yeah and he shot and made a buncha 3s when they won. You can’t discount Steph Curry either bc he’s the one who made people realize that the 3 point shot can and will win you a championship.

The one team that didn’t rely on it was the Lakers. Every other team did. Even Jrue was jacking up 3s like crazy in 21 bc the volume is important. You can make up whatever shit you want but analytics and recent history says if you’re gonna win the title, you’re point guard better take a lot of 3s and make a good bit of them.

Also I bet Castle doesn’t make all nba defense in his first 5 seasons.

[The Truth #6]

He may not be explosive in a sense but if he's athletic enough for Rascal, then good enough for me. Lol. But really, he's doing fine for his age and expectations. He will help make the team better. Yes, I still want a more explosive player somewhere on the roster but he fits what the FO wants and isn't a reach like Primo so I'm content.

[LeBowen]

I’m too lazy to find it but you 100% did say that learning to shoot was easy. Don’t backtrack that now.

Easy compared to learning point guard skills.
And easy for guards compared to big men.
I'm not backtracking.


Also you want to say strawman to me but your whole post is strawman. Sochan is the fucking power forward. I expect my power forward to struggle with shooting. I don’t expect it with my starting point guard. Also why would Castle replace Sochan as a starter? Special kind of stupid if you want Castle to play power forward. Only on fucking Spurstalk man.

I'd expect my power forward who's got other skills to struggle with shooting, but Jeremy has nothing going for him on offense.
His EFG last season was the worst on the entire roster. Actually an amazing feat considering the assortiment of scrubs we assembled.
And it didn't even improve by 1% from his rookie year. His FT shooting is the only thing he improved.

With the Barnes addition, Jeremy is not a power forward anymore. At least not on defense.
If we assume CP3, Devin, Barnes and Wemby are guaranteed to start, whether it's Jeremy or Castle on the floor, one of them is going to be the POA defender.
There goes his power forward role on defense and on offense roles or lineup size don't even matter anymore, it's all about being functional. Which can be done in many different ways. Having a 48% EFG starter isn't one of them.
If he's the POA defender, his size works against him because he's got to chase way quicker guards around which isn't fair to expect of any forward.
Then what's the point of starting him over Castle who already looks like he has a functional jumpshot and is obviously a better playmaker, passer than Jeremy? His layup package actually looks normal for an NBA player, while Jeremy just throws shit up and hopes for the best.


Castle shot 26% from 3 in college. He’s sub 30 on the GL from 3. But yet you think he’s going to magically rise that up to 35% or something?

Where did I say he's going to magically rise that? I don't major improvements in the first few years.
He's still way ahead of Jeremy or if you want a closer comparison, Dejounte who's jumper looked even worse than Jeremy's early on.
But that doesn't really matter if everyone else can shoot. It's good enough if he doesn't hesitate on wide open threes.


Dude can’t shoot.

He can, he's just bad at it.
Jeremy can't shoot because taking a 3pt is his last resort, even when left wide open and dared to shoot it with however much time he needs.


Also bringing up career 3 point percentage is the ultimate strawman. You make it seem like Kyle Lowry wasn’t a good shooter. You keep bringing up Derrick whites first 6 seasons in the league like that means something. I didn’t know that White won 7 championships in a row.

How is it a fucking strawman, do you even know what strawman is?
All those players I mentioned weren't good shooters early on. And that's your problem. Your entire argument was based on championship teams and you strawmanned it in a way which assumes Castle won't ever be able to shoot and that those guys on championship teams were all good shooters from year one. Which couldn't be any further from the truth.

Rookie point guards who can shoot and defend are rarely a thing.


To quote Lebowen: is English your first language? Bc otherwise I feel sorry for blah blah blah insert bullshit here. I clearly said championship teams and you bring up Whites first 6 seasons in the league. Dumbass. But my my my reading comprehension:cry

You want to go with insults now, fucking retard?
Yes, it's your fucking reading comprehension you moron because you make it sound as if those players never developed any skills during their time in the league and that Castle will never become a decent shooter.


What was Whites 3 point percentage this year when he won the actual fucking championship dipshit.

And how much time did it take for him to get there you imbecile? How many years did it take Jaylen Brown to develop his shot and learn how to dribble with his left hand?
If we're talking about finished products, then why are we even bothering with rookies?
Trade those picks and get some help.
But if you want rookies, then look at their potential and the early days of players you're comparing them to.


Basically you proved me correct anyways.

No, you're just a retard who doesn't understand the game of basketball. Fitting for someone with Kobe in his avatar.


Same with Jamal Murray who is the actual point guard of the Nuggets.

If he's a point guard, then most shooting guards are also point guards.


Dude averaged 27 and 8 in the playoffs that year and brought the ball up court and ran the offense and yet he isn’t a point guard bc… Lebowen says so.

Demar averaged 7 assists with us, was he the point guard? He also brought the ball up a lot.
Not because I say so, but because you don't actually watch games. He's a primary playmaker only when Jokic sits.
Otherwise his only action with the ball are PNRs and handoffs with Jokic, with most of his assits being created off Jokic's gravity.


Oh yeah and he shot and made a buncha 3s when they won.

Yeah, threes he worked on for many years and finally caught fire for the first time after the bubble.
Why did he shoot 31% in the playoffs this year? Streaky chucker.


You can’t discount Steph Curry either bc he’s the one who made people realize that the 3 point shot can and will win you a championship.

Why did all the elite shooters who can't defend for shit collect DNPs in these playoffs, then?
Hield, McDermott, Burks, Robinson to name a few?
Because defense has become as important as 3pt shooting now that everyone has caught up to it.

Btw, this was also a great strawman because you pivoted all the way from player development discussion into pointing out gimmicks about Murray being a real point guard or not, while completely ignoring the defense.
We'll see how Denver does this year without KCP while Murray has to hide because he's a one-way player.
Of course that we wouldn't have picked Castle if he wasn't projected to be a great defender. But let's just ignore than bit and focus on how point guards must shoot, despite all of those high volume, efficent 3pt point guards having to be hidden on defense, because I guess you can just get good POA defenders on the roster out of thin air.


Even Jrue was jacking up 3s like crazy in 21 bc the volume is important.

Now volume is important and not just efficency? You're telling us Castle won't even be a 30% 3pt shooter?


You can make up whatever shit you want but analytics and recent history says if you’re gonna win the title, you’re point guard better take a lot of 3s and make a good bit of them.

I'm not making anything up, I've written many times that Castle's ceiling is as high as his jumpshot takes him, but here you are writing him off because he's not a good shooter at 19, despite almost all the guards you keep mentioning also being anywhere between awful and underwhelming shooters as rookies.

As I said before, if all of them are prime examples of 3pt shooting improvement, then how's it not easier to develop a jumpshot than playmaking skills since players who become good playmakers later on are very rare?


Also I bet Castle doesn’t make all nba defense in his first 5 seasons.

Yeah, let's make a bold claim that goes 5 years down the road. :lmao
If we're not a top5 defense, we're not getting a second all-defense player because Wemby will (deservedly) get all the credit.

Whole lot of nothing except for a bunch of stramwans after you completely missed the point and decided to dig yourself deeper.

TL;DR
Let's compare our rookie to 30 year old two-way point guards while completely disregarding the fact they were also bad shooters when they entered the league.
Because we're competing for championship this season, right?

Fuck off with your insults, moron.


Oh look, Sheppard just shot 6-17 with 0-2 on 3pt in a summer league game, better get the pitchforks out!
2 assists, 4 TO and 6 fouls.

[Obstructed_View]

Honestly no point in watching SL. Nobody on the current team is going to get more than some garbage time outside of Austin. The good news is that Castle looks good, and having Chris Paul as a mentor should be good for him.

[Pauleta14]

You likely found the reason behind. Everyone watched castle can see he has great PG skills except a French Nationalist.


French Nationalism, at its finest.


Castle looked very much the part of a floor general every minute he played. That is why everyone who is now getting the chance to see him play that role is impressed. They are seeing him set everyone up almost flawlessly. These are abilities that were not showcased during his college career. The opinions of many are lagging behind on this aspect of Castle’s abilities, and downplaying what’s being shown just because it’s summer league. The thing is, nearly every prospect that has played has shown the same stuff they showed before they were drafted. Castle is one of the few that’s showing something new. If you have time, find a full game to watch of the summer league games that Castle played in. It’s a far cry from past attempts at the PG spot by other players.

I've watched each of his games, I like what I saw but I'll wait to have a better idea when I see him vs a better opposition.

I hope you'e right, I just find doubts legitimate at this point, that's all

[Degoat]

I think Wemby is gonna really elevate Castles game, some have mentioned it but those pick and rolls where wemby has the ball up top and castle screens and rolls to the basket will be nasty!!! Plus we’ve seen Castle can pass so there will be lots of options with that play.

[Mr. Body]

I think Wemby is gonna really elevate Castles game, some have mentioned it but those pick and rolls where wemby has the ball up top and castle screens and rolls to the basket will be nasty!!! Plus we’ve seen Castle can pass so there will be lots of options with that play.

He and Clingan had a great thing going and if Clingan has a huge catch radius, Wembanyama's is gargantuan.

[rankingtear]

I can see the vision with Castle and Sochan even though I dont like them predraft. Jokic has done well with their projected outcome like Gordon and Brown. When your pivot center is this versatile you have to have personells that match it. You still have to look at them as developmental pieces, but they have the base that fits our desired playstyle.

[TVI]

Why would I hate on Castle? I'm a spurs fan, I hope he'll do good. Do I believe he'll be a bonifide star? No, but I'll happily say I was wrong if he does. I'm only judging what I'm seeing hic et nunc, not fantisizing.

You want a more objective opinion? Read what other fanbases are saying. And guess what? There's barely any real chatter around Castle, or just to mention he can't shoot. No one is saying "Crap, we missed on Castle!". And there's barely any hawk fan regretting picking Risacher over him.

I’m not sure why this is relevant. It’s not like the Spurs passed on Risacher. Everyone wanted him. That’s why he went #1.

I do think you’re missing some important aspects to Castle’s game. He impressed me with his patience, and his ability to let the play develop. That’s instinct that I didn’t know he had. That’s what people mean when they say he has natural point guard skills. You can also see that in the way he knows how to draw contact from a trailing defender. Again, this is instinct and maturity that he already possesses.

Yes, his shot is remarkably inconsistent. But those mechanics that are making it inconsistent are easily fixable for someone who demonstrates his high BBIQ and his work ethic. He’s strong, and isn’t afraid of contact, so he won’t be intimidated by hard fouls.

The Spurs need a floor leader who knows how to make the right play based on what’s available, and he’s showing he can be that guy. Add that to his defensive abilities, and we could be witnessing something special.

I can’t wait to see what a year with CP3 does for his game.

[ambchang]

Fwiw, my boy watched castle and said his offensive game resembles Luka doncic. Not that he is as good but how he hesitates, uses fakes, the way he passes, the way he uses his hips to carve out space, resembles doncic. His shooting is inefficient for sure but so was doncic.

Not saying castle will turn into anything closely even resembling doncic, but when my boy (huge fan of doncic) mentioned it I see there are some similarity in style.

[Ice009]

Has your friend seen them both playing live/in person?