MLB (Marlins) in SA?

[gameFACE]

What do y'all think of this. Real possibility or just SA as leverage for a new stadium in Miami? Pipe dream?


San Antonio Business Journal - 10:19 AM CST Tuesday

Florida Marlins may be looking for San Antonio home

W. Scott Bailey

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff has held quiet conversations with Florida Marlins officials that could eventually lead to the Major League Baseball franchise relocating from South Florida to South Texas.

And although the intent, say some local officials, was to keep the situation quiet until plans for where the NFL's Saints will play next season were more firmed up, this latest development could help raise the Alamo City's national profile with both leagues.

Wolff was unavailable for comment. His assistant will only say that the county judge will address the media on the steps of the County Courthouse today at 3 p.m.

Wolff's son, City Councilman Kevin Wolff, says about this latest opportunity for San Antonio to potentially add another major league sports franchise to its lineup: "Dad gets all the credit for this one."

Marlins officials visited with local leaders in Las Vegas last year about a potential relocation of the team, which has failed to gain traction for a new stadium in Florida. But this is believed to be the first meeting of team officials with another city since receiving permission from Major League Baseball to pursue relocation opportunities late last month.

"It's still a long way from done," Councilman Wolff warns. "But he (Nelson Wolff) feels pretty strongly that they (Marlins) are serious."
Los Marlins (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/12/05/daily11.html?jst=b_ln_hl)


Posted on Tue, Dec. 06, 2005

Marlins and San Antonio officials will meet this week

Officials from San Antonio plan to meet with Marlins officials in Texas this week, an official close to the situation said. Though Marlins executives visited Las Vegas last December, this will be the team's first meeting with officials from another city since receiving permission Nov. 21 to explore relocation.

Meanwhile, MLB president Robert DuPuy is expected to meet with Marlins and Huizenga Holdings officials this week to discuss building a stadium on Wayne Huizenga-owned land next to Dolphins Stadium. The proposal still has a funding gap of at least $80 million.

Huizenga has offered the Marlins free land on the site and discussed chipping in $50 million toward construction, sources said. Huizenga, who is believed to be losing patience, has not said whether he would expect a share of the stadium profits.

Miami-Dade County has offered $138 million toward a stadium. County manager George Burgess said Monday he still holds out hope but conceded, ``At the end of the day, we may not be successful, and the franchise may leave.''
Los Marlins 2 (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13338429.htm)

Interesting. The idea of MLB in SA was brought up in ’03 when the Expos were looking to relocate. At that time Wolff said that SA was about 5 to 10 years away from realistically landing another major league sports franchise. I totally agree with that assessment. I’m not sure how big locals are into MLB but the south central Texas market definitely has big potential as a viable market. Possibly even as far down as Monterrey, Mexico which was discussed during the Expos feeler. It will be interesting to hear the news conference and see if this develops into something serious in the future or just SA as leverage for a new Miami stadium. Whatever the case, I would definitely welcome the MLB to SA and support it.

My gut feeling is SA could support one more franchise at this time but not two.

[Extra Stout]

SA is probably a decade or more away from being a viable MLB market. But the conversations are worth having.

Portland is the obvious choice for the Marlins assuming they can get a stadium built. The Marlins will be leaving South Florida as soon as 2008. They have sold off most of their good players this offseason to slash their payroll.

The Devil Rays may be the next to move, and San Antonio could be in that mix, along with cities like Charlotte and Las Vegas, or Miami if they decide to build a new faciliy there once the Marlins leave.

[Das Texan]

well tickle me silly.

my team relocating to my town.

I would be in heaven for centuries.

[Marcus Bryant]

SA used by a pro sport owner part XXIV.

[TheWriter]

Funny how the one guy who said SA was 10 years away if very serious about landing the Marlins.


"It's still a long way from done," Councilman Wolff warns. "But he (Nelson Wolff) feels pretty strongly that they (Marlins) are serious."

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey man, we got VJ Keefe. MLB here we come.

[Das Texan]

we also have the Wolff. Neither of which are anywhere close to MLB standards unfortunately.

[TheWriter]

we also have the Wolff. Neither of which are anywhere close to MLB standards unfortunately.


And Portland has? Las Vegas has? North Jersey has...

[TheWriter]

Hey man, we got VJ Keefe. MLB here we come.

We understand why you're the way you are.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/MarcusB.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

You're right. Pretty soon I'm going to find myself posting on NSYNCfans.com.

[Extra Stout]

And Portland has? Las Vegas has? North Jersey has...
Portland has an ownership group and stadium proposals. They're about as organized as D.C. was. They've grown into a medium-sized market. It's a wealthy area. They have a stronger baseball heritage than S.A. It fits.

Vegas has the mayor and the casinos on board. They have land available for a facility and private financing available. Their lack of a regional TV market is somewhat of an issue. The sports books remain the deal-killer.

S.A. is in a better position for this sort of thing than they were in years past. Ten years ago the Marlins would have laughed them off. I think S.A. has a 10% chance at the Marlins, and maybe a 30-40% chance at the next team looking to relocate. There just aren't as many markets in front of S.A. anymore.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, you're back to trying to involve points north and south. Unlike with the NFL, there isn't a team really that entrenched in SA. The 'stros have their fans, but its nothing like the Cowboys.

Still, trying to pull in 20,000 fans on average for 81 games a season would seem a bit difficult for this area.

[TheWriter]

Portland has an ownership group and stadium proposals.

Marlin's aren't looking for an ownership group. They're looking for a new stadium.



Vegas has the mayor and the casinos on board.

Vegas has the casino's on board? Since when. No way they take MLB bets off their boards.

[TheWriter]

You're right. Pretty soon I'm going to find myself posting on NSYNCfans.com.

You don't already?

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

What would make sense is for someone to come up with a combo football/baseball stadium plan. It would be interesting to see if a publicly financed one could be sold with the Saints and Marlins being somewhat available. If back in the day the Alamodome had been located on a different site, SA would already be set. But it just had to be located downtown...

[Marcus Bryant]

You don't already?

:lol


Nope. That's your role.

[TheWriter]

Nope. That's your role.

Really?

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/MarcusB.jpg

[Extra Stout]

Marlin's aren't looking for an ownership group. They're looking for a new stadium.

Peruse this site: http://www.portlandbaseballgroup.com/


Vegas has the casino's on board? Since when. No way they take MLB bets off their boards.

They have the casinos on board to donate some of their own real estate for a stadium and to help finance it. However, the sports book may be a deal-killer, as I already said.

San Antonio has a lot of catching up to do. But even if they don't land the Marlins, they can lay the groundwork for the next time. Portland missed out on the Expos, but now they're ready for the Marlins.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah. So I went to a GTG and wore a tshirt and hat. Small surprise you are afraid to show up to one.

[TheWriter]

Yeah. So I went to a GTG and wore a tshirt and hat. Small surprise you are afraid to show up to one.

Afraid? Yeah, that's it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Peruse this site: [url]

San Antonio has a lot of catching up to do. But even if they don't land the Marlins, they can lay the groundwork for the next time. Portland missed out on the Expos, but now they're ready for the Marlins.

The best approach for SA is to include a baseball configuration as the part of any new planned stadium. The downside, of course, if that any relocated MLB team would have to play a couple of seasons at VJ Keefe.

[TheWriter]

Peruse this site: http://www.portlandbaseballgroup.com/

Been there, done that.

Again, the Marlins nor the MLB are seeking an ownership group, just a new stadium, whether from Miami or some other city.

[Marcus Bryant]

Afraid? Yeah, that's it.

Apparently you haven't done so. As much time as you have to sit at home and take pics of a TV you would think that you could manage to make one.

Not sure why you are so fascinated by my pic. There is a term for men who like pics of other men...

[Extra Stout]

The best approach for SA is to include a baseball configuration as the part of any new planned stadium. The downside, of course, if that any relocated MLB team would have to play a couple of seasons at VJ Keefe.
Multi-purpose stadiums are not acceptable anymore.

And given that VJ Keefe is not acceptable as a AA facility, of course it could not house a Major League team (are you thinking of Wolff Stadium?). SA would have to finish the new facility before the team arrived.

[TheWriter]

Apparently you haven't done so. As much time as you have to sit at home and take pics of a TV you would think that you could manage to make one.

Sure I could make one, but I don't. Complex concept for you to understand I see.


Not sure why you are so fascinated by my pic.

Funny, could say the same damn thing about you towards me and my hobbies.

[TheWriter]

Didn't the Nationals play in PR before they played in their DC stadium?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure I could make one, but I don't. Complex concept for you to understand I see.

Yeah, you're too much of a pussy to do so.




Funny, could say the same damn thing about you towards me and my hobbies.

I participate in discussions about development in SA. Slight difference.

[TheWriter]

Yeah, you're too much of a pussy to do so.

Sure, we'll go with that.




I participate in discussions about development in SA. Slight difference.

No, you stalk me like that crazy dude did with John Lennon.

[Extra Stout]

Been there, done that.

Again, the Marlins nor the MLB are seeking an ownership group, just a new stadium, whether from Miami or some other city.
If you actually had looked at the site, you would see that the organization is a group of volunteers and civic leaders, not an ownership group.

You also would have learned that the State of Oregon already has passed a financing bill for a new stadium that would provide $150 million in public funding should Portland secure a team. The bill has no sunset provision.

The City also is working to relocate the main Post Office so that a new stadium can be built on that site within five years.

The first sentence one reads upon visiting the site is a plea to Mr. Loria that Portland would be an ideal location for his team.

Take off your Rose-Window sunglasses for a second and recognize that Portland is well ahead of San Antonio in this race, and that S.A. has a ton of catching up to do.

[Marcus Bryant]

No, you stalk me like that crazy dude did with John Lennon.

Funny, I'm not the one following you into threads and posting a pic of you.

[Horry For 3!]

Spurs, Saints, Marlins.....Excellent.

[TheWriter]

Funny, I'm not the one following you into threads and posting a pic of you.

So you saying you never come into my threads and turn it into a 10 page bitch fest. Come on... don't let your nose grow.

[TheWriter]

Spurs, Saints, Marlins.....Excellent.

Spurs, Soldiers, Generals.

[TheWriter]

You also would have learned that the State of Oregon already has passed a financing bill for a new stadium that would provide $150 million in public funding should Portland secure a team. The bill has no sunset provision.

And Miami-Dade county is also offering about 150 million for a new stadium.

Portland has about as much to offer them as we do.

A site (east side) without actually having to go through red tape to relocate any businesses or homes.

We also would have better financing if a increased hotel-motel tax was voted for compared to Portland.

[dknights411]

Didn't the Nationals play in PR before they played in their DC stadium?

The former 'Spos played 1/3 of their home schedule in Puerto Rico in 03 and 04. I think the 04 numbers in Puerto Rico were almost as bad as the Montreal numbers. Is this correct?

[Marcus Bryant]

So you saying you never come into my threads and turn it into a 10 page bitch fest. Come on... don't let your nose grow.

Sure, when appropriate I engage in a discussion about a particular issue, not worry about what you look like.

[TheWriter]

Sure, when appropriate I engage in a discussion about a particular issue, not worry about what you look like.

No, but you sure worry about what my hobbies and interests are (city development; photography)

Don't try to act like your the better man... or a-sexual female (from what I can draw from the "It's Pat" like picture.)

[Marcus Bryant]

No, but you sure worry about what my hobbies and interests are (city development; photography)

So only you can discuss developments on this forum?





Don't try to act like your the better man... or a-sexual female (from what I can draw from the "It's Pat" like picture.)

There's a term for men who view men as women.

[TheWriter]

So only you can discuss developments on this forum?

No, but what does that have to do with your obession of my hobbies?



There's a term for men who view men as women.


I don't view men as woman... you my friend, from that picture, ain't no man.

You are Pat.

[Marcus Bryant]

No, but what does that have to do with your obession of my hobbies?

Funny, I'm not the only one who participates in some of your threads.




I don't view men as woman... you my friend, from that picture, ain't no man.

You are Pat.

Yeah, I guess I'm not a connoisseur of men's looks as you are. You've tried some fairly weak smack, but this takes the cake.

[TheWriter]

Funny, I'm not the only one who participates in some of your threads.

No, but you are the only one obsessed with my hobbies, enough so to alway bring them up for no reason.



Yeah, I guess I'm not a connoisseur of men's looks as you are. You've tried some fairly weak smack, but this takes the cake.

Ok, Pat.

I'm sorry that you look like a androgynous person in your picture. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

No, but you are the only one obsessed with my hobbies, enough so to alway bring them up for no reason.

Yeah, like in this thread, I suppose.

[TheWriter]

Yeah, like in this thread, I suppose.

Yeah.


Apparently you haven't done so. As much time as you have to sit at home and take pics of a TV you would think that you could manage to make one.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm not in this thread to discuss your "hobbies" (sitting on a couch taking pics of your television seems fairly borderline as a "hobby"). That was in response to your obsession with my pic and reluctance to show your mug in public.

[Extra Stout]

And Miami-Dade county is also offering about 150 million for a new stadium.

Portland has about as much to offer them as we do.
SA does not have a funding initiative in place. That is still on the "to-do" list.


A site (east side) without actually having to go through red tape to relocate any businesses or homes.
Likewise PDX/LVN.


We also would have better financing if a increased hotel-motel tax was voted for compared to Portland.
And if my aunt had testicles, she would be my uncle.

Nothing you have said refutes my assertion that S.A. has a lot of catching up to do.

[TheWriter]

I'm not in this thread to discuss your "hobbies" (sitting on a couch taking pics of your television seems fairly borderline as a "hobby").

Yeah, taking requested pictures of renderings shown on the news for a downtown mega project for whcih no online renderings have been made avl. isn't some way connected to my "city development" hobby.

Ok.

[TheWriter]

SA does not have a funding initiative in place. That is still on the "to-do" list.

Again, get a hotel-motel tax voted for, there's your funding.




Nothing you have said refutes my assertion that S.A. has a lot of catching up to do.

Catching up to do?

Get the Marlins to commit to SA. Get a hotel-motel tax voted for. Build the stadium.

We dun caught up.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sitting on your couch taking pics of your TV is not a "hobby". It's called loneliness and despair.

[TheWriter]

Sitting on your couch taking pics of your TV is not a "hobby". It's called loneliness and despair.

Again, there was a reason for the picture taking. Something you have a hard time grasping.

Again, I'm sorry you remind me of Pat. God was the mean one in this.

[Das Texan]

i'm intrigued as to what is being discussed. i mean nelson wolff has done some creative things before so i can only imagine what is being done with this.

factor that with this being my favorite baseball team and i'm fully behind this.

there are many questions that have to be answered, but the bottom line is that miami is a piece of trash market, has been given plenty of opportunity and has failed over and over again.

give this city a winner and who knows what 'could' happen. I really dont know myself.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, there was a reason for the picture taking. Something you have a hard time grasping.

There's no reason to be taking pics of your TV unless you have absolutely, positively, nothing else to do.




Again, I'm sorry you remind me of Pat. God was the mean one in this.

You're right. God was the one who made you see men as women and contemplate killing yourself.

[King]

How old are you, Writer? Still making fun of the way people look? It's pretty ridiculous, especially considering there's really nothing funny about the picture - and it's blatantly obvious that you're completely reaching for anything to go at MB with.

And you're swinging and missing.

[blaze89]

Watcing KSAT, Holly Hills made a statement in which they are trying to lure the NFL into San Antonio. At least that is what I got out of it.

Also, potential baseball sites will be by the SBC Center, the Longhorn Quarry or by Retama Park.

I'm sure there will be more news to follow.

[Extra Stout]

Again, get a hotel-motel tax voted for, there's your funding.
One cannot just squat down one day and shit a successful hotel-motel tax referendum. Is it possible? Sure. Is it easy? No. Has the groundwork been laid to get one approved? Enlighten me.


Catching up to do?

Get the Marlins to commit to SA. Get a hotel-motel tax voted for. Build the stadium.

We dun caught up.
Mas facil dicho que hecho. You're talking about years of work. The other cities are not going to sit there and do nothing while waiting for S.A. to pass a hotel-motel tax or for Holly Hills to issue bids.

So they need to get a move on, otherwise this is all lip service.

I don't think we need to debate anymore San Antonio's hypothetical ability to support another major pro sports franchise. Yes, they can do it. But, having established that they can do it, they should, um, do it.

Preliminary conversations are nice, but they need to pick up the pace and move past the token real estate acquisitions and press conferences.

[Extra Stout]

How old are you, Writer? Still making fun of the way people look? It's pretty ridiculous, especially considering there's really nothing funny about the picture - and it's blatantly obvious that you're completely reaching for anything to go at MB with.

And you're swinging and missing.
From what we can gather, he is a 21-year-old high-functioning autistic who is living independently. He is highly conversant in a few specific topics of interest, specifically urban development and photography, but struggles to understand topics outside his narrow interest, and has problems with social interaction, especially with nuances like humor.

[TheWriter]

One cannot just squat down one day and shit a successful hotel-motel tax referendum. Is it possible? Sure. Is it easy? No. Has the groundwork been laid to get one approved? Enlighten me.

Seemed pretty easy when the County proposed a hotel-motel taxed arena for the Spurs.

Out of thin air they appear to help the team.

[TheWriter]

Marlins begin relocation tour in San Antonio

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Faced with declining attendance and struggles to get a new stadium in Miami, Marlins President David P. Samson met San Antonio officials on Tuesday to discuss relocating the two-time World Series champions.

Major League Baseball permitted Samson to consider alternate sites last month and the ninth-largest U.S. city (Actually 8th) was his first stop.

"The future of baseball in South Florida is no longer assured," Samson told reporters after a day of meetings with San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger and Bexar County Judge Nelson W. Wolff, who is a former semi-pro baseball player and namesake of the city's minor league stadium.

Samson insisted the trip was not calculated to force a new stadium deal back home.

"We are certainly not going to lead anybody on," Samson said. "Our timeline involves us going through this first stage for three to five months, but certainly there is an immediacy to this."

Wolff estimated an open-air ballpark could be built for $250 million and without new taxes.

Samson said the Marlins' current lease in Miami expires in 2010, but the team could move in 2008.

He said cities that jockeyed for the Montreal Expos, before they moved to Washington, D.C., would be possibilities for the Marlins, including Portland, Oregon; Las Vegas, Nevada; and Norfolk, Virginia.

Samson said his is not interested in moving to a Mexican city, such as Monterrey.

San Antonio's only big-league franchise is the Spurs of the NBA, although the city is serving as a temporary home for the New Orleans Saints after Hurricane Katrina.

Officials also are vying to keep the Saints, although Wolff said the city probably can support just one additional pro sports franchise.

Samson declined to speculate how the owners of Texas' two major-league franchises -- the Texas Rangers and Houston Astros -- would react to a third Lone Star team.

However, he said all owners would benefit if the Marlins found a home that offered stronger financial footing.

"Right now the Marlins franchise receives way too much revenue sharing, and that comes from other owners like the owners of the Rangers and the Astros who are putting money into the pot, so they are trying to find a way to get the Marlins in a different financial position," he said.

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2005-12-06T231042Z_01_HAR683415_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-MARLINS.xml

[gameFACE]

Extra Stout you have some solid posts! The process of getting a funding mechanism worked out and approved (hotel-motel tax), selecting a site and design team (politics involved) and then getting the construction process process going is three years MINIMUM. It's tedious and time consuming. Portland does seem to be ahead way ahead. Fortunately, the Dolphins Stadium lease doesn't end until 2010 so there is some time to play with.

The SA/south central market is a viable one but probably right on the edge. Companies like Toyota and ancillary businesses are not yet established and haven't produced a single truck. They need a few years to produce and make $$$.

Funny but the last MLB game I went to was the Marlins vs. Braves when I was in Atlanta this past September. Mojo...... :smokin

[TheWriter]

The process of getting a funding mechanism worked out and approved (hotel-motel tax), selecting a site and design team (politics involved) and then getting the construction process process going is three years MINIMUM.

WTF are you smoking?

[gameFACE]

Explain........

[TheWriter]

Explain........

Actually, I may have misread you. Do you mean it'll be a 3 year process to get everything together and for construction of a stadium to start and finish or... that the process leading up to the start of construction would take 3 years?

You may not know this, but the Marlin's contract runs until 2010 with their current stadium, but they can opt out in 2008 (which would be when they relocate if they do so).

So, San Antonio has three years to make this happen.

[gameFACE]

Yes I meant three years total until completion of the stadium. I just noticed my typo. If I remember right the SBC hotel-motel tax referendum was passed in late '99 and it was completed in '02. A baseball stadium is larger. If the Marlins were to opt out in '08 for the '09 season then you would have three years. That's cutting it close. Otherwise it's only two full years ('06 & '07). No way it could be complete for the '08 season. From what I heard on the news report the Marlins will take about five months to study their options.

[TheWriter]

Yes I meant three years total until completion of the stadium. I just noticed my typo. If I remember right the SBC hotel-motel tax referendum was passed in late '99 and it was completed in '02. A baseball stadium is larger. If the Marlins were to opt out in '08 for the '09 season then you would have three years. That's cutting it close. Otherwise it's only two full years ('06 & '07). No way it could be complete for the '08 season. From what I heard on the news report the Marlins will take about five months to study their options.

It was reported an official announcement of where they'll go to or stay will happen within 6 months.

The thing you may not know, is that Bexar county already has the land and architect in place.

All that's missing is funding which could and most likely will be a new hotel-motel tax.

[LilMissSPURfect]

spring sports complex ?? :lol :lol

IF YOU BUILD IT ....THEY WILL COME I TELL YA :fro

[Extra Stout]

They may want to reconsider the open-air stadium. In San Antonio. In the summer.

"The white people are melting."

[CubanMustGo]

I dunno, the stadium in Arlington seems OK in the summer time. Have lots of night games ...

Here's an article from today's E-N:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA120705.1C.BBOmarlins.121c14ad.html

Marlins looking at S.A.

Web Posted: 12/07/2005 12:00 AM CST

David King
Express-News Staff Writer

Florida Marlins president David Samson came away from Tuesday's tour of San Antonio impressed with both the city and its leadership.

But he wasn't ready to commit to move the Major League Baseball team, which has received permission from commissioner Bud Selig to look for a new home, perhaps as soon as the 2008 season.

"Over the next three to five months, we expect to visit several more cities," Samson said at a news conference after the tour, which was conducted by Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, Mayor Phil Hardberger and District Attorney Susan Reed.

"We're going to do our homework, review things like the finances and the fan base, and see what we can do."

Samson did not name the six other cities that have expressed interest, although he said the list was similar to the one Major League Baseball compiled when it announced the move of the Montreal Expos. That list included Portland, Ore.; Las Vegas, and Norfolk, Va.

The Expos eventually moved to Washington, D.C.

"One thing we're not going to do is play one city against another," Samson said. "We're not going to take what San Antonio said today and run to another city and say 'match this.'

"It's not like we're a free-agent pitcher. We're not going to play it that way. We're looking for the right fit for our team."

Samson, who was impressed with the city's feel, said the decision about moving the team — which has struggled to attract fans in South Florida — would depend more on a gut feeling among its directors than a set number of commitments for season tickets or corporate sponsorships.

"We expect to move to a good baseball town," he said. "You want a big city that can feel like a town — that makes a good baseball town."

Wolff said the tour included several potential sites for a stadium, which he said would be financed with a public-private partnership that would not include new taxes. The city's Double A Missions play at Wolff Stadium.

"Obviously, we don't know yet where a deal might get done," Wolff said.

A spokesman for a development group looking to build a complex of sports facilities and related amenities on the East Side said it would be willing to put together private investments for much of the cost of a venue.

"If HollyHills can do anything to make the Florida Marlins a reality in San Antonio, then HollyHills is behind this 100 percent," said T.J. Connolly, a spokesman for Los Angeles-based HollyHills Development Inc., which recently unveiled ambitious plans for MLB, NFL and NASCAR facilities near the SBC Center and the city-owned Willow Springs Golf Course.

"We have the plan, the land and the credibility."

Credibility was an issue for Samson, who for his four years as team president has been working with Miami-area politicians on a plan for a baseball-only stadium. The team has played its home games in all 13 of its seasons at Dolphins Stadium, home of the city's NFL team. But the Marlins can get out of their lease there after the 2007 season.

"It was great to deal with San Antonio's political leaders and see how they work together," said Samson, who also was introduced to members of the Bexar County Commissioners Court and some City Council members Tuesday. "It feels good to be wanted."

City leaders emphasized that Tuesday's visit was preliminary, a step in the process that Wolff has said in the past might take up to 10 years.

"We don't know where this might lead, but you don't know if a road leads anywhere unless you get on it," Hardberger said.

[email protected]

[Das Texan]

any stadium built for MLB had better be a retractable roofed stadium. thats all i'm gonna say.

[TheWriter]

"If HollyHills can do anything to make the Florida Marlins a reality in San Antonio, then HollyHills is behind this 100 percent," said T.J. Connolly, a spokesman for Los Angeles-based HollyHills Development Inc., which recently unveiled ambitious plans for MLB, NFL and NASCAR facilities near the SBC Center and the city-owned Willow Springs Golf Course.

"We have the plan, the land and the credibility."

Nice to hear HollyHills is 100% behind getting the Marlins.

[gameFACE]

The thing you may not know, is that Bexar county already has the land and architect in place.
Very unlikely that they have an architect at this point. There is no stadium project which requires one. And being a public building the county would issue Request For Proposals for design teams if the project becomes a reality. Legally the county can't negotiate with an architect. There is always a selection process. Maybe you're thinking of the architects (Kell Munoz & Ellerbe Beckett) who are doing the feasibility study at SBC. And that study is separate from the HollyHills vision. Both HollyHills and the county have land available.

It's great that HollyHills could offer something. That means there are options. But right now they are just that - an option.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

TheWriter, just like the rest of SA, is getting played.

[rr2418]

I've always thought that SA would be a great baseball city even though football and basketball are at the front. Back when they were thinking of building the Alamo Dome, I thought that they should've included basball in the mix. I'm not big on baseball ( too slow of a game, though I don't mind going in person to see a game ), but a MLB team here would be great. Hope it works out for SA!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nice to hear HollyHills is 100% behind getting the Marlins.

They're not. They're getting behind the idea of taking San Antonio for a lot of money.

[TheWriter]

TheWriter, just like the rest of SA, is getting played.

Yeah, and the reason I and the city is getting played is...

[TheWriter]

Very unlikely that they have an architect at this point. There is no stadium project which requires one.


Yeah, they do.


After hearing two competing presentations, Bexar County commissioners decided Wednesday to go with the EDAW/Kell Muñoz Architects group to devise a master plan for the SBC Center grounds.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA101305.01B.Arena.181b7d90.html

[TheWriter]

They're not. They're getting behind the idea of taking San Antonio for a lot of money.

Doesn't your ass get burnt from having to talk so much?

[SA210]

We understand why you're the way you are.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/MarcusB.jpgMB is white?

[T Park]

The Writer can never discuss anything right.

Always has to be a defensive prick.


No way the Marlins move here.

No way they go for playing at Wolff field or wahtever for a year.


The Spurs are all thatll be here.

Get used to it.

[SA210]

i'm for it.

[gameFACE]

Yeah, they do.


After hearing two competing presentations, Bexar County commissioners decided Wednesday to go with the EDAW/Kell Muñoz Architects group to devise a master plan for the SBC Center grounds.

A master plan is not a stadium project. There is a big difference between a master plan and an actual project. A master plan is just a study for how to use land including a feasibility study. :smokin It may also include conceptual or sketch ideas like the HollyHills vision. Also when a portion of a master plan is built - it doesn't mean the same architects will design it.

HollyHills is hired by no one. They are salesmen trying to pitch something. If you want a better idea of what they really are read Buck Harvey's (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA120805.1C.COLharvey.17c15cb2.html) column in today's paper.

[TheWriter]

Always has to be a defensive prick.

Should I just quit than?



No way they go for playing at Wolff field or wahtever for a year.

They can't leave Miami until 2008 at the earliest.



The Spurs are all thatll be here.

Get used to it.

If currect city and county leaders had the same defeatist mentality as you, that might always be true.

Luckly they don't quit after a couple of losses.

[TheWriter]

HollyHills is hired by no one. They are salesmen trying to pitch something. If you want a better idea of what they really are read Buck Harvey's (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA120805.1C.COLharvey.17c15cb2.html) column in today's paper.

I really don't feel like re-reading someone's cynical POV.

You might wanna read this (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/12/05/daily34.html)

[gameFACE]

You might wanna read this (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/12/05/daily34.html)
Nothing set in concrete there. Just a "hope" to make their project a reality.

[blaze89]

The more I think of it, the more I have doubts about the HollyHills project. They can hire anyone they like, they appear to have a good pitch man but this project will probably go down the crapper due to finances. I'm thinking they'll end up building a subdivision and a strip mall cause it will be all they can afford.

[gameFACE]

Updated: Jan. 10, 2006, 12:25 AM ET
Mayor: Most Portlanders don't care about getting team
Associated Press

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Mayor Tom Potter said Monday he has a "very strong sense" that most Portlanders don't care about landing a major league baseball team and reiterated his position that the city will not help finance a ballpark for the Florida Marlins.

Potter spoke after meeting with Marlins president David Samson and other team officials, who are touring potential new homes for the franchise.

"My concern is that Portland is facing a crisis is education," Potter said. "That's my top priority, to find funding for that. And I expressed that today."

Samson said a "public-private" partnership is a must because there's no way the Marlins would pay for an entire stadium project.

"Governments do make decisions when they attract businesses to the community," Samson said. "Baseball is not the only industry, by any stretch, to ask for government help when deciding where to have its corporate headquarters."

In 2003, Oregon legislators approved a stadium plan that would allow the income taxes from players and other team personnel to be diverted to a fund to pay off bonds used to build the stadium.

"What the state does is its own business," Potter said.

Samson compared Monday's meeting to a first date and said it was too soon to consider Potter's position a potential obstacle.

"Today it was just about meeting the mayor and getting to know him, and that's what I focused on," he said. "I don't really focus too much on public comments -- positive or negative -- because it's too premature."

Portland is the second stop on Samson's tour of potential sites, following San Antonio.

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2286405)

[vincerodriguez23]

i'm for it.

me too

[CubanMustGo]

me too

Pony up $300M for a stadium and another $300M for the team and your dream can come true.

[vincerodriguez23]

Pony up $300M for a stadium and another $300M for the team and your dream can come true.

ok, ill start by holding a carwash at my house, and then setup a lemonade stand

[Melmart1]

I absolutely love baseball. I would love for SA to have a team. That being said, however I don't think this is a baseball type of town. Once the initial novelty of having a second pro team wears off, I wonder how many people would be out at the ballpark, especially day games in August.

Think about it- the Spurs don't sell out every game (even though they come close). They play 1-3 times a week at home. Imagine now playing a 10-game stretch at home for baseball. One game each day for 10 days, at a ballpark that I would assume would seat roughly 3x the 18k seats of the spurs arena. I am just not sure there is enough interest in baseball in SA to make it work. I would hate for them to relocate here, then relocate again due to lack of attendance. Oh, and the fire sale the Marlins seem to be having this offseason does not bode well for them, either.

That being said, my ass would be out there early and often.

[gameFACE]

I don't think attendance would be a real issue, Mel. Baseball is more affordable for families. Most teams don't sell out every game. And even the Cubs or Red Sox have few people in the stands at a noon game on Tuesday. I think average attendance is something like 20,000 per game. And if your ass is out there and my ass is out there with all the others it should be fine.

BTW, last time the marlins had a fire sale it led them back to winning another World Series. :)

[Melmart1]

I actually thought about that, Hector. It might mean good things. I baseball is much more affordable than a Spurs game, but there are also twice as many home games, so I guess that is my concern. I would hate for us as a city to have egg on our faces because we couldnt bring up the numbers.

I also wonder if those who still think we could get an nfl team would reject this. SA might be able to support two pro teams, but three is a stretch, to put it mildly. OH well, its all speculation anyhow for now...

[Buddy Holly]

Pony up $300M for a stadium and another $300M for the team and your dream can come true.

Funding for a stadium is already in place. :spin

[Buddy Holly]

Think about it- the Spurs don't sell out every game (even though they come close).

Might wanna rethink that. They've sold out every game so far this season.

[Extra Stout]

I don't think attendance would be a real issue, Mel. Baseball is more affordable for families. Most teams don't sell out every game. And even the Cubs or Red Sox have few people in the stands at a noon game on Tuesday. I think average attendance is something like 20,000 per game. And if your ass is out there and my ass is out there with all the others it should be fine.

BTW, last time the marlins had a fire sale it led them back to winning another World Series. :)
Teams like the Cubs and Red Sox draw 3 million fans a year. Teams like the Pirates and Royals draw 20,000 a game.

[Melmart1]

Might wanna rethink that. They've sold out every game so far this season.

YOU might want to re-read what I said. I said they don't sell out every game, I didn't say THIS SEASON. I been to plenty of home games on a Monday or Tuesday vs. lowly teams like the Hawks where they were short of a sellout. Now imagine the Marlins playing not one but 3-4 home games IN A ROW vs. a crappy team like the Padres, with 3x as many seats to sell. That's the point I was trying to make.

Also, its easy to point out a team selling out all their home games when they just came off a championship season. The Marlins are in rebuilding mode. Big difference.

[Das Texan]

Funding for a stadium is already in place. :spin

we voted on that when?

[dknights411]

YOU might want to re-read what I said. I said they don't sell out every game, I didn't say THIS SEASON. I been to plenty of home games on a Monday or Tuesday vs. lowly teams like the Hawks where they were short of a sellout. Now imagine the Marlins playing not one but 3-4 home games IN A ROW vs. a crappy team like the Padres, with 3x as many seats to sell. That's the point I was trying to make.

Also, its easy to point out a team selling out all their home games when they just came off a championship season. The Marlins are in rebuilding mode. Big difference.

It won't be like SA would be the ONLY place with THAT problem. The average MLB game averages about 26,000 or 27,000 anyway.

[Buddy Holly]

YOU might want to re-read what I said. I said they don't sell out every game

They have so far this season.



I didn't say THIS SEASON.

You said it as if that's the case this season. It's not. Rephrase what you write.

[Buddy Holly]

we voted on that when?

Oh Texan... I guess you got bored at the Marlins board.

Funny how I got a PM from a guy who said you're one of the biggest "pricks" over there. :lol :lol

The funding is in place, that is a true fact, the activation of said funding has yet to be happen, that will take a vote.

[Melmart1]

It's not. Rephrase what you write.

I don't need to rephrase anything. YOU are the only one who didn't get my point. I stated they didn't sell out every game, period. I gave no parameters as to time. Nowhere did I say "this season". You added that to suit your agenda.

As for the person who said that every team has that problem, you are mostly right. Other than NY or Boston or rabid baseball towns like that, the attendance is not great. I guess my worry is that SA may go even lower than that if the Marlins (or whatever team) really suck at first.

If it was football, I think peeps would go no matter what, as this is football-hungry Texas. But baseball, I am not so sure. But I would love for it to work out.

[Buddy Holly]

I don't need to rephrase anything. YOU are the only one who didn't get my point. I stated they didn't sell out every game, period. I gave no parameters as to time. Nowhere did I say "this season". You added that to suit your agenda.

Then neither has any team in any league in the history of american sports. So what's the purpose of even bringing it up? To suit your flawed agenda.

[Melmart1]

Pot, meet kettle.

You really do know how to ruin a perfectly good discussion. And the worst part is, you ruin it with semantics, and still don't answer the question at hand. All I did was suggest that this may not be a baseball town and ask for opinions. THERE IS NO AGENDA IN ASKING FOR OPINIONS. So why don't you give your opinion instead of zeroing in on one part of my post that still has nothing to do with whether or not this is a baseball town.

[samikeyp]

She has a right to her opinion bro, as do you. Don't attack her opinion...give us your take.

[Das Texan]

Oh Texan... I guess you got bored at the Marlins board.

Funny how I got a PM from a guy who said you're one of the biggest "pricks" over there. :lol :lol

The funding is in place, that is a true fact, the activation of said funding has yet to be happen, that will take a vote.

ya i got bored at the marlins board.

Good to hear that I'm regarded as a 'prick' there...where most of the users there make TPark look like a damn genius.

The funding is in place, but it doesnt exist until voted on. Which means nothing until its approved.

You are like that crooked politican who tells nothing but half truths.

[gameFACE]

Teams like the Cubs and Red Sox draw 3 million fans a year. Teams like the Pirates and Royals draw 20,000 a game.

The Cubs thing was kind of an inside joke for Mel. She's a big Red Sox fan. But yeah, SA's market would be more like the Royals. Also I saw where the lowly Tigers have low attendance when the Indians came to town for a series with as low as 13,000 and 15,000 people. Damn, that sucks but it happens. And yeah, the Marlins might really suck at first but that’s the nature of a relocated franchise in any sport.


funding is in place, but it doesnt exist until voted on. Which means nothing until its approved.

You are like that crooked politican who tells nothing but half truths.
:lmao Yeah, that's like saying i'm going to buy a house that's for sale and I know that banks have money. Oops but I forgot - I have to talk to the realtor first and then get approved for a loan. Small details like that.

There is no funding or official plan for a baseball stadium as of right now. Only ideas and schematic funding mechanisms.

[gameFACE]

If it was football, I think peeps would go no matter what, as this is football-hungry Texas. But baseball, I am not so sure. But I would love for it to work out.

I agree to a degree. It brings up a really interesting question that you asked:

Is San Antonio a baseball town?

I’ve heard this discussed and it’s definitely a good question. I would start by also asking if Phoenix was a baseball town prior to it being awarded the Diamondbacks? Or Tampa Bay with the Devil Rays? They are the two most recent franchises. Anyone a good historian?

I think San Antonio CAN be an MLB team since it’s allegiance to the Astros and Rangers might not be as strong as the allegiance to a team like the Cowboys which has been marketed heavily here for decades.

I’ve only been a casual follower of the Astros but when I’ve had the chance to go to a live MLB game it’s been a blast. And I would definitely go if SA had a team and follow the MLB closer.

[Melmart1]

The Devil Rays are in deep trouble and may be looking to relocate, although if the Marlins do so, one would think something would happen to keep at least one team in FL. I have no clue about the Diamondbacks, though. I don't follow the NL as closely as the AL.

I agree, San Antonio COULD be a baseball town. But baseball just seems to get so much of a shaft here. I mean, Astros in WS for first time and only one local TV news outlet sent a crew. Not too many people seemed to be into it locally. That could change, though and I posted looking for others' opinions (and without 'flawed agenda, I promise).

I am a HUUUGE Rangers fan and made the trek to Arlington last summer for the Johnny Oates retirement ceremony and even caught a double header vs. the White Sox. I always bought prime tickets and paid for a hotel, so I am willing to spend some money on baseball should it come to SA.

Oh and Hector- I am a Red Sox fan, but second to the Rangers. Since Rangers have only made the playoffs like five times in their history, you gotta have someone to cheer for in October, and it sure as hell isn't gonna be A-Rod and the Skankies.

[samikeyp]

A-Rod and the Skankies

sounds like a bad girl group! :lol

[Melmart1]

Well, there have been rumors about A-Rod...

[samikeyp]

allegedly.. :lmao

[Buddy Holly]

The funding is in place, but it doesnt exist until voted on. Which means nothing until its approved.

Yes, exactly.


You are like that crooked politican who tells nothing but half truths.

How is it a half truth?

The funding is in place. I never said a stadium is going to be built or that no vote needed to be taken.

You're just grasping.

[Buddy Holly]

There is no funding

Yes there is. A five year extention of the arena hotel-motel tax. That's it.

[j-6]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_rolfe/01/17/getting.loose/index.html

Well, isn't this a fine How-'bout-that? The deal for the Nationals' new stadium in Washington, D.C. has hit a snag.

D.C. had until Dec. 31 to sign a lease on the site and secure the needed shekels ($535 million), but the city council grew concerned about rising costs (now estimated at $667 million) and asked Major League Baseball, (the Nats' owner), to cover any overruns. MLB balked. The deadline passed.

MLB has filed for mediation, hoping an arbitrator will force D.C. to put out. Competent government may be an oxymoron, but this move still comes across as a ham-handed attempt by MLB to get its way when further negotiation and compromise are in order.

The Nats now find themselves in a situation much like the one the Minnesota Twins have been enjoying. The Twins have been bedeviled for years by the hobgoblins of budget shortfalls and disagreements about how to cover overruns. A Dec. 31 deadline for the team's latest deal passed after Minnesota's state legislature opted not to fund the $508 million ball orchard by hiking a county sales tax without public consent. The Twins saw a referendum as a deal-breaker.

Gee, I wonder why?

Of the 80-odd columns I have written for this site, the one that generated the most passionate response was the screed last May 25 that questioned the wisdom and value of public funding for buildings that mainly help billionaires pay millionaires. Horror stories (see this June 1 column) poured in from cities struggling to pay the tab and upkeep on stadiums while teams keep the lion's share (or more) of the revenue as real civic needs go wanting and, in some cases, perfectly usable arenas sit idle. Yet wealthy owners keep holding out the tin cup.

This racket is akin to a fat guy in a silk suit, with gravy on his chin and hundred dollar bills falling out of his pockets, knocking on every door in the neighborhood and asking for a handout so he can open a new upscale restaurant. Team owners love using your dough instead of theirs, but cities such as D.C., Minneapolis, Miami, Oakland, and even New York are now more inclined to follow the lead of San Francisco and close the door on the fat guy's foot, or at least drive a hard bargain.


In places like D.C., where baseball has already whiffed twice, political leaders, especially those who are up for re-election (hello, Minnesota), feel heat to provide the wider public with more than just the right to pay $50 to watch Alfonso Soriano sulk. The Nats' new stadium is part of a package that also includes offices, housing, parkland and other goodies.

MLB and D.C. set themselves up for a lovely legal quagmire and public relations nightmare by agreeing to move the team in with such a tight deadline. But MLB president Bob Dupuy grumped in the Jan. 3 Washington Post that D.C. is not easy to do business with and city leaders "frequently quibble with baseball about its commitments."

Well, gosh Becky Lou, why wouldn't they? In recent years, the word "contraction" has been batted around, the Expos were allowed to become neglected ragamuffins in Montreal, and the Twins and Marlins often threatened to move. I won't be surprised to see the Nats threaten to amscray from D.C. if things go awry long enough, but the promised land is turning into a mirage.

Now, roughly one Manny Ramirez contract ($60 million) shy of a new stadium after the Florida state senate declined to enact a sales tax subsidy, the Marlins dispatched emissaries to Portland, Ore., where mayor Tom Potter voiced doubts about public interest in acquiring a team and even uttered an over-my-cold-stiff-carcass declaration of opposition to publicly financed baseball while an education crisis exists in his city.

Potter echoed Florida Senate Majority Leader Alex Villalobos, who told the Miami Herald last May, "Do I think that [a new stadium] is more important than Medicaid reform? No. Do I think it's more important than class size? No. Do I think it's more important than tort reform? No. Do I think it's more important than growth management? No."

DuPuy claims that the Nats will generate $250 million for D.C. in sales taxes and rent payments, but the chorus of scholars crying in the wilderness counters that this kind of pronouncement is so much standard-issue oil de snake. (Google: economic impact benefits new stadiums.) New stadiums rarely deliver on promises, and their main civic value is as a status symbol.

MLB is flush with all-time high revenues, so now might be an auspicious time for it to find ways to consistently pick up the tab on its own houses and avoid fiascos like the ones in D.C, Minnesota, and Miami.

Stow the tin cup, fat man, and cough up the cake.

[gameFACE]

Don't know how accurate this is but I thought it was pretty interesting:

Marlins may fall short if they move
South Florida Business Journal - February 10, 2006
by G. Scott Thomas and Kevin Gale


An analysis of personal income data indicates the Florida Marlins could strike out financially in another market, even if a viable stadium-funding plan is developed.

Bizjournals.com used data on team revenue and ticket prices to estimate how much total personal income a market needs to support a professional sports team. It found only northern New Jersey and the San Bernardino-Riverside area near Los Angeles have the income that would likely support another baseball team.

One problem for the Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria: Southern California already has three teams and the New York metropolitan area has two. Major League Baseball, which has an antitrust exemption from Congress, can prevent a team from moving anywhere it wants.

Among the nation's four major sports, the Bizjournals.com study indicates an MLB team requires the most personal income from a region - at least $89.2 billion, which is more than double the other three sports. A National Basketball Association team is viable in a market with $38.4 billion, a National Hockey League in a $35.7 billion market and the National Football League, with its revenue sharing and lucrative TV contracts, can work in a market of $33 billion.

Baseball needs a lot of personal income for support because there are twice as many home games and 2.5 to three times as many seats as basketball and hockey. That creates a lot of sales inventory. Baseball also lacks the salary caps and has limited revenue sharing among teams.

Here's the breakdown of income levels in cities where the Marlins are looking:

* San Antonio: The market has $55.4 billion in personal income and is home to the NBA-champion Spurs. Bizjournals.com estimates there is only $17 billion in personal income left to support another team.
* Las Vegas: The gambling and tourism Mecca has no pro teams and $56.2 billion in personal income - enough for any of the other three leagues, but $30 billion short for baseball.
* Portland, Ore.: The NBA's Trailblazers have one of the NBA's nicest arenas in the Rose Garden. Without them, the $86.5 billion in personal income would be almost enough to support the Marlins, but in reality, there's only about $48.1 billion left to support the team.
* Charlotte, N.C.: The city has the NFL's Carolina Panthers and NBA's Charlotte Bobcats. Charlotte has $74.3 million in personal income, but there's only $3 billion left for the Marlins.

For pro sports in general, South Florida seems to be a market pretty much in balance. The region has $194.7 billion in personal income, which leaves a deficit of only $1.6 billion with four teams.

But it's also clear two of the teams are doing better than the others:

* The Dolphins are the region's oldest pro franchise, with a storied history. Forbes says the Dolphins, at $856 million, ranked 12th in value among the NFL's 32 teams. The team's operating income was estimated at $15.8 million.
* The Miami Heat, with a modern arena and stars Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade, ranked eighth out of 30 NBA teams, with a value of $362 million, Forbes said in December. The team's operating income was put at $11.5 million
* The Florida Panthers, despite playing in a modern arena in Sunrise, ranked 21st out of 25 NHL teams in 2004, with a value of $121 million, but it lost $3.7 million, Forbes said. A lockout eliminated last year's season.
* The Marlins last April were ranked 26th out of 30 Major League baseball teams in value, at $206 million. Loria has said the team lost more than $20 million in 2003 and 2004. (Forbes notes an operating loss of $11.2 million in 2003 and an operating profit of $3 million in 2004.)

Despite winning two World Series titles, the Marlins have usually ranked near the bottom in attendance, despite playing in the nation's sixth-biggest urban area with a population of 5.28 million.

Getting a stadium is a priority for Loria and he has good reasons to seek one: Dolphins Stadium is primarily designed for football and the trend in baseball is parks that hearken to an earlier era. Dolphins Stadium is open-air and Loria says the threat of rain keeps fans away.

While the Marlins have an ongoing tour of potential suitors, they haven't given up on South Florida despite numerous concepts - such as a park by the Orange Bowl - falling short of financing.

The latest discussion has centered on two sites in Hialeah.

link (http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/othercities/southflorida/stories/2006/02/13/story3.html)

[Das Texan]

You know...


The more and more I hear about this...


the more 'real' I think this could actually become...


Kinda cool, and as I have said...I would just be thrilled beyond belief that my team would pull into town.

[gameFACE]

I'm glad they're doing this:


Baseball: S.A. baseball in wait-and-see mode with Marlins

Web Posted: 03/15/2006 12:00 AM CST

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Saying Major League Baseball needs more time to determine if San Antonio is a viable market, the Florida Marlins told Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff on Tuesday that it could be "weeks" before he learns whether relocation talks would continue.

In a conversation with Marlins president David Samson, Wolff said he learned baseball and the Marlins are doing a joint market analysis of San Antonio. News of the study comes six days after Wolff offered the team a deal that called for Bexar County to cover two-thirds of the cost for a $300 million stadium.

"I knew (an analysis) had to be done at some point," Wolff said. "I'm glad it's going to be done up front before we waste a lot of time negotiating (a memorandum of understanding) that might not be approved (by MLB).

"I'm still cautiously optimistic we are going to get to the next step. But the next step is a big one, and I want (the Marlins and MLB) to be comfortable taking it. Baseball has to give the Marlins a red light, a green light or maybe a caution. It's not just what the Marlins want. It's what baseball will agree to."

The Marlins declined comment. A MLB spokesman said its involvement with the World Baseball Classic has prevented officials from taking a close look at Bexar County's plan to spend up to $200 million, contingent on voter approval, to build an open-air stadium.

"We are not in position to make a comment until we study the proposal," said Rich Levin, MLB vice president of public relations.

MLB has allowed the Marlins to explore relocation, but the team has not applied for permission to move. Relocation requires the approval of three-quarters of baseball's owners.

Wolff speculated MLB needs a couple of weeks to learn if there is support among the owners for the Marlins to move to San Antonio.

"(Samson) doesn't want to run down here and make a deal and then have Major League Baseball say, 'Sorry, you can't move,'" Wolff said. "It has to be a tandem decision."

Wolff plans to generate money for a stadium through an extension of the hotel and rental-car taxes used to build the AT&T Center. He said he would call a November election if the Marlins agree to a memorandum of understanding and find local investors.

Samson, stepson of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, visited San Antonio in December. Wolff said he expects Samson and other team officials to make another visit soon.

In the meantime, Wolff said he's ready to help the Marlins and baseball with their analysis.

"They are going to look at everything from the stadium deal to the city's corporate base to what kind of cable television deal they can get," Wolff said.

FSN Florida, which is affiliated with Fox Sports Net, recently received exclusive rights to televise Marlins games in South Florida beginning this season. The cable channel declined to reveal the amount it is paying the Marlins to televise as many as 150 of the 162 games.

Such deals typically generate millions for teams. The Los Angeles Angels, for example, reportedly have negotiated a 10-year contract with Fox Sports Net that could be worth as much as $500 million.

"A cable deal could be the thing that moves this thing along or stops it," Wolff said. "It wouldn't make sense for the Marlins to come down here and spend any time looking around without knowing that piece of the puzzle."

The Marlins are looking to move because stadium talks in South Florida have stalled. Marc Ganis, a national sports marketing expert, said the speed in which the county submitted a stadium proposal is impressive.

"It shows San Antonio can get things done," Ganis said. "Think about this from the Marlins' perspective: They have been working for three years to get a stadium deal in South Florida, and then San Antonio comes up with something in no time. It demonstrates the can-do attitude San Antonio has."

But Ganis questions whether a quality ballpark could be built for $300 million.

"The good news is construction costs are relatively modest in that part of the country," Ganis said. "The bad news is bells and whistles such as scoreboards, seats and concession equipment are usually bought from other markets, and you don't get reductions on those items.

"But the biggest number is for concrete, and you can get that at a lower cost in Texas."

link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA031506.1C.MLBmarlins.127cbae4.html)

[MoSpur]

I don't know why San Antonio is so cheap. The Marlins want a sun-roof stadium. Give it to them. Its almost the same as it was with the Alamo Dome. The Alamo Dome was new to us (residents of SA), but to everyone else outside of SA it was outdated because no luxury suites. Now SA has to spend more money to update the Alamo Dome. SA should do this baseballl stadium done the right way the first time.

[CubanMustGo]

"Give it to them?" Maybe SA has better things to spend $400-$500M on than a baseball stadium. SA can hardly support the Missions.

[T Park]

Maybe SA has better things to spend $400-$500M on than a baseball stadium. SA can hardly support the Missions

So you don't think SA would go to an air conditioned stadium, more than an open aired stadium in august??

derrr nahh guess not, her her her.


Id rather they spend the 400 million on that, than some more bullshit social programs.


Bring on the Marlins.

[MoSpur]

"Give it to them?" Maybe SA has better things to spend $400-$500M on than a baseball stadium. SA can hardly support the Missions.

THEY DO, BUT I DON'T SEE THE LEADERS OF THIS CITY ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES AS HARD AS WOLF IS ADDRESSING THE BASEBALL ISSUE. THIS CITY NEEDS A LOT OF THINGS THAT SHOULD COME BEFORE A BASEBALL TEAM AND A NEW STADIUM. I TOTALLY AGREE, BUT YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THIS LEADER PROPOSING THOSE ISSUES AS FAST AND AS HARD AS WOLF IS DOING FOR THE MARLINS.

[T Park]

What does this city need?

The city's the most prosperous its ever been, and you bleeding hearts act like its on its last legs financially.

[MoSpur]

Its Doing Very Good. Agreed, But There Are A Lot Of Issues In This City That Need To Be Addressed. However, If They Have The Opportunity To Get The Marlins. Do It. If Wolff Is Trying His Best And Hardest To Do It, I Don't Blame Him.

I Would Just Like The City To Approach Other Issues As Hard As He Is.

[Kori Ellis]

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060315&content_id=1351376&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

Marlins, MLB looking into San Antonio
03/15/2006 8:30 PM ET
By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com

JUPITER, Fla. -- A great deal of talking has been going on behind the scenes between the Marlins and the city of San Antonio regarding the possible relocation of the club.
Right now, the negotiations are in a holding pattern, because before pursuing it further, the team and Major League Baseball will look into the feasibility of the market.

The league and Marlins want to analyze San Antonio's stadium proposal, the media market and the economics of the city. This process likely will take a couple of weeks.

If San Antonio is deemed big-league ready, a second visit from Marlins officials is expected in the near future.

The Marlins are entertaining relocation options along with exploring stadium possibilities in South Florida. Talks with Miami-Dade County officials have stalled.

Marlins president David Samson and other team officials visited San Antonio in early December.

Bexar County, Texas, has offered to ask voters to extend a hotel and car rental tax for a possible baseball stadium. This tax already exists to help fund the AT&T Center, a four-year-old arena that is home to the NBA's Spurs.

The tax would raise about $200 million toward a $300 million stadium. The climate in San Antonio may not require a roof on the building.

For the Marlins to remain in South Florida, the team maintains it needs a facility that has a roof. Such a deal would cost in the $430 million range.

[TheTruth]

too bad it has to be the marlins

unless you like it when the owner purges the team for salary reasons every few seasons
The second title was built more around the teams homegrown talent (cabrera, gonzales, beckett, willis, etc.). They just got too damned expensive after winning the title. Unlike the first one in which they spent millions on superstars, and gave them away the next year.

They still have great talent in the minor league levels, and young superstars at the major league level.

[MoSpur]

i won't root for them, but nobody really cares about that i guess

You're right. Nobody really cares if you root for them or not.

[yavozerb]

A stadium here in SA does not need a roof!!! Have any of you guys been to the park in arlington, its great...Only a couple days out of the season is the opening pitch between noon and 5:00 (hottest part of day). I've been to mission games and they are fun for the faimly, but to compare them to major league games is stupid..You go see MLB to see some of the best baseball players in the world not try and enter a contest that involves spinning in circles with a bat and racing (which is funny as hell)

[T Park]

A stadium here in SA does not need a roof!!!

Dude.

A 12 o clock sunday day game in August would disagree.


Retractable roof, or sunroof thats able to open, and that fixes the problem.


Minute Maid Park is fine in May with the roof closed.

[T Park]

Im still waiting to hear whats more important that the city or county that NEEDS to be adressed IMMEDIATELY!!

[Das Texan]

The second title was built more around the teams homegrown talent (cabrera, gonzales, beckett, willis, etc.). They just got too damned expensive after winning the title. Unlike the first one in which they spent millions on superstars, and gave them away the next year.

They still have great talent in the minor league levels, and young superstars at the major league level.


if only you knew the real reasons behind the salary purge.


try having the worst stadium lease in baseball that you cant do anything about.


marlins make nothing off parking.

make nothing off concessions.

make pretty much nothing on luxury boxes.

they are lucky to make money off ticket sales.

that and attendance is shit in miami.

if this franchise had a real financial base like the other 29 ballclubs, this would never have happened.

[T Park]

if only you knew the real reasons behind the salary purge.


try having the worst stadium lease in baseball that you cant do anything about.


marlins make nothing off parking.

make nothing off concessions.

make pretty much nothing on luxury boxes.

they are lucky to make money off ticket sales.

that and attendance is shit in miami.

if this franchise had a real financial base like the other 29 ballclubs, this would never have happened.




Damn.

More facts.

Gotta hate that.....

[CubanMustGo]

Im still waiting to hear whats more important that the city or county that NEEDS to be adressed IMMEDIATELY!!

Homelessness
dropout rate
low overall education and skills
lack of good-paying jobs
roads


Nah, let's spend $500M on a stadium with a retractable roof. Bread and circuses worked just fine for the Romans, after all.

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA032106.1A.marlins.34e99c9.html

Hall of Fame pitcher backs S.A. Marlins idea

Web Posted: 03/21/2006 12:00 AM CST

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan on Monday endorsed Bexar County's efforts to lure the Florida Marlins to San Antonio, saying Texas could support a third Major League Baseball franchise and this city is the right spot for it.

"The demographics of the state allows for another team to come here," Ryan said. "Given the projected growth of the state and the exciting things happening in San Antonio, I think (San Antonio) would support (a team)."

Ryan also suggested he would consider investing in the Marlins should they move here.

"You never rule things like that out," Ryan said. "We would be interested in seeing where the (Marlins) ownership is on that."

Ryan's comments came after he had lunch with County Judge Nelson Wolff, County Commissioner Tommy Adkisson, County Budget Officer David Smith and County Chief of Staff Seth Mitchell at the Plaza Club atop Frost Bank's downtown tower. Ryan's sons, Reid and Reese, also were there.

Wolff, who is spearheading local efforts to land the Marlins, said he was thrilled to hear Ryan's comments. Wolff has a framed picture of Ryan, baseball's career strikeout leader, at his office at the Bexar County Courthouse.

"What Nolan said adds credibility to our efforts and will have an impact locally and with Major League Baseball," Wolff said. "It's great to hear he thinks Texas can have a third team and that (San Antonio) can support one. Those are key statements."

Wolff has said the Marlins must include local owners in a minority role if they move here. Auto magnate B.J. "Red" McCombs said recently he would "seriously consider" investing if it would ensure relocation to San Antonio.

"I'm going to pass on what Nolan said to the Marlins, and we'll see where it goes," Wolff said.

Texas has two Major League Baseball franchises, the Houston Astros and the Rangers in Arlington. Ryan, who played for both in a 27-year career, is a special assistant to Astros general manager Tim Purpura.

The Marlins are exploring relocation options because stadium talks in South Florida have stalled.

Last season, the Marlins drew 1.8 million fans to rank near the bottom of the National League. Team officials believe attendance would increase if the club played in a baseball-specific stadium rather than the stadium it shares with Miami's NFL team.

The Marlins are waiting to hear from MLB on whether they can engage in more serious relocation talks with Bexar County.

MLB decided to take a closer look at the San Antonio market after Wolff faxed a stadium-financing proposal to the Marlins on March 8 that called for the county to pay two-thirds of the cost for a $300 million open-air ballpark.

Wolff says the county could raise $200 million if voters were to extend hotel/rental-car taxes used to build the AT&T Center. The deadline to call a November election is August.

Wolff hinted Ryan would campaign for the tax extension.

"It would help us tremendously to have his name attached to this," Wolff said. "It would make an election in November a lot easier."

Marc Ganis, a national sports marketing expert who was a relocation consultant for the NFL's Cardinals, Raiders and Rams, said Ryan adds "celebrity cache" to Wolff's project.

"He has credibility, which can be helpful from a marketing standpoint," Ganis said.

Ryan and Houston businessman Don Sanders are the principal owners of the Round Rock Express and the Corpus Christi Hooks, both minor-league teams. Reid and Reese Ryan also have stakes in the teams.

"Our teams are San Antonio's neighbors to the north and the south," said Reid Ryan, chief executive officer of the Express and the Hooks.

"We wanted to go down and talk to the judge and find out what his take was about the possibility of the Marlins moving to San Antonio and how it would affect our fan bases. It wouldn't be wise for us to sit around and do nothing."

[email protected]

[gameFACE]

^^I was about to post that.:fro


Im still waiting to hear whats more important that the city or county that NEEDS to be adressed IMMEDIATELY!!
How about education and infrastructure? For a city it's size SA has a low literacy rate. IF taxes are going to come out of my pocket I would rather it be spent on schools and libraries. I would love to see infrastructure improvements on whatever land deal gets done for the A&M campus on the southside (assuming it gets done) for example. Those things have more importance to me than a pro sports team. Teach Joe Six Pack to read and write. I'm also a strong supporter of the arts and recommend that to anyone.

For now the Marlins ahave knocked on our door and the funding mechanism in place for the stadium is neither a sales nor a property tax. I'm down with that. Now i'm anticipating the reports on SA's viability. Those will be revealing.

[yavozerb]

I also agree that thaer are more important issues to the city than a sports franchise. I also realize that with sports franchises comes $ which over time should pay back the city two fold...Look what the spurs brought to the city, Robinson, Bowen, TD, and many other quality athletes..I cant even imagine how much these players have donated and also have endorsed organizatios to raise $ mentioned before....

[Peter]

Naturally a new stadium and pro team will improve SA's poor schools and streets.

[scott]

Education? Who cares? This thread is about BASEBALL. MLB would bring like the 27 highest paying jobs in the city. You don't have to be able to read if you can throw a ball, just ask Vince Young!

[StylisticS]

The demographics of the state allows for another team to come here," Ryan said. "Given the projected growth of the state and the exciting things happening in San Antonio, I think (San Antonio) would support (a team)."

I love Nolan Ryan and what he did with the Rangers when he played at Texas back in the 90s. But I will have to play devil's advocate right here. San Antonio is a metropolitan area of 1.8 million people. It has the 37th largest market in the country. No matter the projections that it predicted, it will be very hard for the San Antonio region to support Major League Baseball year in and year out.

Bud Selig now has baseball favoring large markets. Small markets like San Antonio and Sacramento can survive in the NBA because the NBA caters to small markets. Same with the NHL and to a lesser degree, the NFL. But MLB is a different story. Kansas City, a bigger market than San Antonio, has a hard time selling out 1 of 81 games in a season. Tampa and Minnesota(both small markets), was about to be contracted because of lack of money, fan support, and lack of interest within the community. You will not have enough money and you will have a hard time winning. Therefore, San Antonio could start out consistently losing and the franchise would be answering questions.

I would love to see another team in Texas, but considering how the MLB kisses the large markets ass. Would it be wise for San Antonio to have a team now? You practically have to be in a top 15 market to succeed nowadays. Because those teams have the money, enough fan support, and power to make a run. Rarely does a market team like Kansas City even has a chance to win.

I hope I am wrong. But stating an opinion.

[T Park]

Homelessness
dropout rate
low overall education and skills
lack of good-paying jobs
roads

Plenty of jobs available, MORE govt social bullshit doesn't need to be poured into that.

Drop out rates wont be helped by throwing money at it, nor will education.

The whole system needs to be overhauled. Throwing money at it ISNT WORKING!!!!


Lack of good paying jobs? Govt money needs to create that?? Uh no...

Keep making deals with big companies like Toyota and Washington Mutual and those jobs will come.

Roads??

What, the construction on 410 isn't enough more roads have to be torn up and left for crap?

No thanks..

The tax is a carry over, its not a new one.




I would love to see infrastructure improvements on whatever land deal gets done for the A&M campus on the southside (assuming it gets done) for example

Cut some bullshit social programs and i am right with you.

No more new taxes.


Naturally a new stadium and pro team will improve SA's poor schools and streets.

No, but more jobs are created.

Lots of ushers, vendors and what not.

Oh, right, those arent "the right jobs"

of course....

[T Park]

Would it be wise for San Antonio to have a team now? You practically have to be in a top 15 market to succeed nowadays. Because those teams have the money, enough fan support, and power to make a run. Rarely does a market team like Kansas City even has a chance to win

If the Marlins spend a little money, and are a good team that goes to the playoffs, they will have fan support.

The Marlins have a great farm system and have a good core.

Spend a little money on FAs and they will be good again.

This, when given a good budget, is a very good franchise.

[StylisticS]

Agreed and I hope you're right because the Rangers have not found pitching in over 30 years(hopefully this year is different though). But with the market size of San Antonio, can the money easily be attainable? In Miami, it is easy to get the revenue because it is one of the largest markets in the nation. San Antonio on the other hand is not. Therefore it could be harder to get that same money which would get those same free agents. I don't know. We shall see and I hope I'm wrong.

I am glad that you mentioned the farm system though. That, of course in any sport, is how you build a successful team. They got really lucky in 97 by getting all those players but there 03 championship was homegrown talent.

[Vashner]

San Antonio IS one of the largest markets. You have to look at recent data on growth and numbers.

[Horry For 3!]

If the Marlins spend a little money, and are a good team that goes to the playoffs, they will have fan support.

The Marlins have a great farm system and have a good core.

Spend a little money on FAs and they will be good again.

This, when given a good budget, is a very good franchise.
Marlins team can be very good in the future. They are very young.

[StylisticS]

San Antonio IS one of the largest markets. You have to look at recent data on growth and numbers.

No it's not. Especially in MLB standards. San Antonio is one of the smallest markets.

[gameFACE]

Mike Greenberg: Big league ballpark should be part of the urban center

Web Posted: 03/26/2006 12:00 AM CST
San Antonio Express-News

Memo to County Judge Nelson Wolff and Mayor Phil Hardberger:

I'm all for bringing Major League Baseball to San Antonio, and I hope the Florida Marlins can be persuaded to move here on terms that will benefit the team and this community.

They'll have to change their name, of course. We don't have marlins in San Antonio, except maybe at SeaWorld. The San Antonio River Rats? I like that.

The idea of paying for a ballpark with hotel occupancy and rental car taxes, the way we financed the AT&T Center, makes sense. We pay such taxes when we travel to other cities, and we might as well get it back somehow.

But it's a good idea to acknowledge reality. Express-News columnist Ken Rodriguez's analysis in Wednesday's paper was correct: The full cost of building a ballpark and its related infrastructure is not the $300 million figure that's been floated, but probably closer to $400 million.

Assuming the public has to pick up $275 million of that cost, the voters need to be presented with a proposition for $400 million.

Why's that?

Well, Nelson and Phil, old pals, since you're going to the refrigerator anyway, you might as well get me a $125 million performing arts center, including a 2,000-seat concert hall, a 500-seat black-box theater and the full cost of renovating the Alameda Theater, with the addition of a state-of-the-art stage.

You know we need the arts facilities as much as we need a ballpark, and you know they'd bring at least as much economic benefit as a ballpark, so why not?

Well, actually, major-league sports facilities don't produce much economic benefit, but Major League Baseball offers the best hope for generating economic cheer beyond the stadium boundary because of the large number of home games. The benefits can vary widely with location, however.

We can't just let the Marlins pick a site somewhere on the I-35 corridor, as has been suggested.

Sports franchises like a location where the attendees are captive and will spend all their money within the facility. That means a location that's accessible mainly by freeway, with all parking on site.

It means, in other words, a location like that of Wolff Stadium, the city's minor league ballpark out on U.S. 90 West. Though that location was chosen, ostensibly, for the economic benefits it would bring the West Side, no discernible benefits have occurred.

Most people drive directly from the freeway to the parking lot, and then walk directly into the stadium, and then reverse course after the game. There are no opportunities to spend money — no opportunities for entrepreneurs — in the neighborhood outside the park gates.

To create opportunity, a ballpark needs to be part of the urban fabric, not separate from it. Most of the parking has to be scattered a few blocks off-site, so that attendees walk past restaurants, bars and stores between the parking lot and the ballpark.

And a lot of the traffic has to be dispersed on regular streets, with locally owned businesses, rather than channeled directly onto freeways. High property values on freeway access roads favor large chains and disfavor small, locally owned businesses.

The downtown fringe has several strong potential sites for a ballpark. The old Lone Star brewery is one possibility. There are industrial properties that could be converted north of St. Paul Square, just east of downtown, and very near the former site of Mission Stadium to the south.

A Major League ballpark also would fit neatly on VIA Metropolitan Transit's bus parking and maintenance facility just north of downtown, and that site could allow mutually beneficial shared parking arrangements with San Antonio College, freeing some of the college's sprawling parking lots for more valuable uses.

The point is, we shouldn't just say we're going to build a ballpark. We need to think carefully about how to make a ballpark maximize its contribution to the community, and where that can best happen.

Why settle for a single if we can have a grand slam?

link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/columnists/mgreenberg/stories/MYSA032606.4J.greenberg.13126.html)

[gameFACE]

Good article by Greenberg. I totally agree with the cost estimate. It will be much closer to $400mil. BUt I think all Wolff has done is throw the "first offer" on the table. If the MLB decides that SA is a viable market then "real" negotiations can begin. I would think the hotel/car rental tax would have to fund more like $250-275 million when all is said and done.

I also like the location suggestions. The old Lone Star Brewery is a gread idea. Lone Star Stadium. That's probably better than H.E. BUTT Stadium ("come on down to da Butt!")


Cut some bullshit social programs and i am right with you.

No more new taxes.

Such as......................

I assume you would be against raising city taxes for upgrading the Alamodome (city owned) then if an NFL team were to come here

[T-Pain]

^^I was about to post that.:fro


How about education and infrastructure? For a city it's size SA has a low literacy rate. IF taxes are going to come out of my pocket I would rather it be spent on schools and libraries. I would love to see infrastructure improvements on whatever land deal gets done for the A&M campus on the southside (assuming it gets done) for example. Those things have more importance to me than a pro sports team. Teach Joe Six Pack to read and write. I'm also a strong supporter of the arts and recommend that to anyone.

For now the Marlins ahave knocked on our door and the funding mechanism in place for the stadium is neither a sales nor a property tax. I'm down with that. Now i'm anticipating the reports on SA's viability. Those will be revealing.


100% agreed and correct. I would rather see my tax dollars go toward things this city really needs to improve on, such as homelessness, education, and most important of all, the roads and highway system. What good is it gonna do for middle to lower-class citizens like me? How am I gonna benefit from having a baseball team in SA? How is the Spurs benefitting me? Now dont get me wrong, I did previously say that i would love to have another pro team in SA, but if its gonna require tax dollars, im voting against a new stadium.

[gameFACE]

Check out the Wolffman's latest on marketing locally:

Will Florida Marlins jump into city's net?
Wolff has gut feeling Alamo City will snag team

San Antonio Business Journal - March 24, 2006
by W. Scott Bailey

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/33057-120-97.jpg

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff helped bring minor league baseball back to San Antonio in the late 1960s, and he helped keep it here three decades later. Now he is the local leader swinging for the fences in an effort to lure Major League Baseball to the Alamo City via a relocation of the Florida Marlins.

Such a move will require a vote of approval from Major League Baseball owners, and Wolff hopes he will eventually have the support of Texas' two existing teams -- the Texas Rangers and Houston Astros.

The Rangers and Astros both have a history in San Antonio. Each have fielded minor league affiliates here in the past. And each have also worked, with varying degrees of success, to build up fan and media support in this area.

Wolff says he has not heard anything from the Astros or Rangers that would indicate they are working against San Antonio's drive to secure the Marlins.

Contacted by the Business Journal, a spokeswoman for the Astros would only say that the organization has "no comment" on the Marlins situation at this time.

"I don't know what issues there may be with the Astros," Wolff says. "I do know they have some fans down here. That could be a problem. But hopefully they'll be supportive."

Wolff says Rangers owner Tom Hicks reached out to San Antonio through Clear Channel Communications Inc. co-founder Lowry Mays when Major League Baseball was trying to find a new home for the Montreal Expos, which have since settled in Washington, D.C.

"So I assume there are no issues with the Rangers," Wolff says about the American League team, which plays its home games in Arlington, Texas.

But Gregg Elkin, senior vice president of communications for the Rangers, suggests the American League team is not anxious to see a franchise enter the San Antonio market. "Anytime there is talk of another team that close to us," he says, "there is concern that there will be an impact."

Elkin adds, "We want baseball fans in San Antonio to be Rangers fans. Two teams in Texas -- one in each league (American and National) -- makes more sense than three teams."

Wolff says if California can have five Major League Baseball franchises (Dodgers, Angels, Padres, Athletics, Giants), there is no reason Texas cannot make enough room for three. His son, Kevin Wolff, a huge baseball fan and a member of City Council, says neither the Astros or Rangers have worked that hard to embrace San Antonio over the years.

New direction

Should San Antonio convince the Marlins and Major League Baseball owners that the Alamo City is a better fit than South Florida, there will need to be a new stadium constructed here. To date, much of the talk about where such a venue might be located has centered on the Interstate Highway 35 corridor as a means of attracting the Austin market, too.

But San Antonio may want to look to the south, where business leaders say a more passionate base of baseball fans exists.

Bill Summers is president of the Rio Grande Valley Partnership, a pro-business organization that has worked to try and help bring the NFL to the border region. He says the area is blessed with a large Hispanic population that is hungry for more professional baseball.

There are some examples to support such an argument. Last year, Corpus Christi, for example, christened a new $23 million Whataburger Field, which is home to the Texas League's Corpus Christi Hooks. In Mexico, leaders have lobbied Major League Baseball to put a team in that nation.

Wolff, who admits that the Spurs have enjoyed only limited success in their efforts to attract interest in Austin, says those South Texas leaders might be right.

"There may end up being more of a pull from there," says Wolff about the area stretching south from San Antonio to northern Mexico. He says the Marlins are open to the idea of perhaps playing some exhibition games in northern Mexico should the team move to San Antonio.

"I think that makes a lot of sense," Summers says. "The people down here are great baseball fans. I think he (Wolff) is looking in the right direction."

Gut feeling

The Rangers' Elkin says he believes the Marlins will remain in the Miami area.

"Major League Baseball is working hard to keep the Marlins in Florida," he says.

Wolff, however, remains confident that San Antonio will reel in the Marlins.

"My gut feels good right now," Wolff says.

If the Marlins decide to relocate to San Antonio, they will not arrive until a stadium is constructed. That means the team could be forced to ride it out in Florida as a lame-duck franchise until as late as 2010, likely bleeding even more red ink.

One solution might be to move the team into a temporary home closer to San Antonio until a new stadium could be completed here. But Wolff says such a scenario is highly unlikely.

"I don't think the Marlins are interested in a temporary home," he says. "I think they feel like it would not be a good representation of Major League Baseball."

The only alternative, Wolff says, is to expedite stadium construction here and try to cut down on the length of time the Marlins would have to play in Florida. (i.e., it will cost more - gF)

For now, Wolff and other local leaders are left to play a waiting game while they try to keep their eye on the ball.

Meanwhile, Wolff says Marlins officials continue to keep an eye on San Antonio.

"They're monitoring everything that is going on down here," Wolff notes. "It's like when we started working on the Toyota deal. The first thing they (Toyota officials) said was, 'We want to know if we're wanted.' It's the same with the Marlins. They want to be wanted."

link (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2006/03/27/story1.html?i=33057)

[Buddy Holly]

I also like the location suggestions. The old Lone Star Brewery is a gread idea. Lone Star Stadium. That's probably better than H.E. BUTT Stadium ("come on down to da Butt!")

Lone Star Brewery? That's being redeveloped into a major mixed-use center.

I assume you mean the old quarry on the northeast side.

[Buddy Holly]

San Antonio Can Support A Major League Team

Posted By: Mandi Bishop
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.woai.com.

The future's so bright. San Antonio leaders say the city could easily support another major league team. News 4 WOAI has obtained a study that shows the city's growth makes now the right time.

Between this report and Fortune magazine's favorable ranking of San Antonio, Mayor Phil Hardberger says we should be seen as a major player for any team looking to relocate, especially the Florida Marlins baseball team.

Mayor Hardberger says San Antonio is definitely a contender. "A very serious contender. I think our chances are excellent. It's not a certainty and there are other towns that have something to offer other than San Antonio, but I really have a feeling that the Marlins are making serious consideration of San Antonio."

And why not? A new economic report shows San Antonio's employment rate is expected to go up 3.4% annually, San Antonio's income should go up by 8% each year and our population will increase 2.7%.

For our neighbor's up North, Austin's employment rates are expected to increase 2.7% annually, personal income will go up 6.9% and population will grow at a rate of 2.4%.

What that means for us is, when combined to form the I-35 region, there will be more than 2.2 million jobs that create 245 billion in income and nearly 5 million people to entertain by the year 2015.

Hardberger adds, "We are the third fastest growing city in the United States. That's pretty good...and we are the fastest growing city in the state of Texas."

We asked Mayor Hardberger what are our chances of disappointment are, like what we saw when we tried to lure the New Orleans Saints to town. He says one indicator that we'll have success this time is that the owners of the Marlins have invited him to sit with them on opening day in Houston next week.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=413107BF-7646-41B5-B0CB-DF06A8AB0881

[Buddy Holly]

Sports teams may cheer for S.A.

Web Posted: 03/29/2006 12:00 AM CST

Travis E. Poling and William Pack
Express-News Business Writers

A new long-term economic forecast for the San Antonio and Austin areas is being touted as proof that the region can support two or more major league sports teams.

Although Bexar County officials who commissioned the study say they will use the data for long-range planning, it comes at a time when the county and the city are looking to land Major League Baseball's Florida Marlins and perhaps a National Football League team.

The report by Jon Hockenyos, managing director of Austin economic consulting firm TXP Inc., analyzed possible growth patterns over the next decade for the 39 counties within a 100-mile radius of San Antonio.

The population of the region, which includes Austin, should increase by about 1 million in the next 10 years, and the number of jobs should climb by half a million, according to Hockenyos' projections.

"This shows that we are at the cusp of a major economic expansion," County Judge Nelson Wolff said. "Looking to the future, we know that we have the capacity to support two or more major league clubs in our town."

Wolff is offering a deal to the Marlins, now in South Florida, of $200 million in tax revenue toward a new stadium in the San Antonio area. The money, which voters would need to approve, would come from an extension of the hotel and car rental taxes now paying for the Spurs' AT&T Center.

The Marlins estimate a new stadium in San Antonio will cost $310 million, not including a retractable roof or the cost of land.

But any sports team that might look to San Antonio as a new home needs proof of a regional fan base, disposable income and a strong corporate base to pump up sponsorship and luxury suite revenue.

The study found population in the region should increase to 4.92 million by 2015 from an estimated 3.99 million this year, or 2.3 percent a year.

The number of jobs is forecast to increase 2.8 percent annually to nearly 2.2 million, up from 1.7 million this year.

Total personal income could increase 7.2 percent annually to $238.9 billion from an estimated $128 billion this year.

Hockenyos' report says recent growth in the regional economy, mostly along the Interstate 35 corridor from San Antonio to Austin, has led to 478,000 net new jobs, or 3 percent above the previous year.

In contrast, national employment grew 1.5 percent.

"Growing appeal of the region as a site for expansion and relocation of both people and firms helps San Antonio/I-35 consistently perform 'above the line' relative to the U.S. as a whole," the report said.

San Antonio's "economic roll" includes the new Toyota manufacturing plant and suppliers, the selection of Fort Sam Houston as the new headquarters of U.S. Army South and new high school work force academies that help produce skilled workers.

Wolff said the study grew out of discussions about four or five months ago when the city was trying to lure the New Orleans Saints to town. Officials sensed the area was on the brink of a major economic expansion but needed an analysis to prove that those feelings were correct.

"We wanted a better idea of where we were headed" in the San Antonio Metropolitan Statistical Area, the judge said. "It's an exciting time to be here, and this data shows it."

Wolff said the purpose of the study, in part, was to show Major League Baseball that San Antonio could support a second major sports team, such as the Marlins, who've expressed interest in San Antonio as they seek a new stadium deal in South Florida.

The study clearly demonstrates that San Antonio could support a second professional team, the judge said.

By describing how much the regional economy will grow over the decade, the report also shows that in addition to the Spurs, two additional major league teams — baseball and football presumably — could be sustained by San Antonio in the near future.

If baseball still is three or four years away from opening here, at best, the region should be financially strong enough to host a third professional team shortly after that, Wolff said.

The San Antonio data is strong by itself, but additional information from Austin and other booming communities along I-35 should prove the region's long-term economic strength, Wolff said.

"I think we're right on the cusp of having both of them," he said.

Wolff said that aside from its value in the discussion over the Marlins, the study should help the county understand its economic prospects in the coming decade and guide decisions about infrastructure improvements.

County and city leaders will meet with Marlins officials at their season opener Monday against the Houston Astros at Minute Maid Park.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA032906.01A.EconomicGrowth.12d91050.html

[T Park]

Boy oh boy.

Hope this works out.

Having a pro baseball team would be so awesome its not even funny.



Do they have an idea, as to where they would play, if the Marlins moved here?

A temporary site so to speak.

[CAGE]

It's about time we get a MLB team in our city

All we need is an NFL team and the whole enchilada is complete

[CAGE]

It's about time we get a MLB team in our city

All we need is an NFL team and the whole enchilada is complete

[T Park]

Move the Marlins here.

Then, move the Jaguars here.

Then were set. :smokin

[T-Pain]

Move the Marlins here.

Then, move the Jaguars here.

Then were set. :smokin


dont forget an NHL team

[Old School Chic]

It's about time we get a MLB team in our city

All we need is an NFL team and the whole enchilada is complete

That's right!

I'm an NBA, MLB, & NFL fan :)

[dknights411]

dont forget an NHL team

Non-Hodgkins lymphoma? :wtf :wtf

I think we can live without hockey. ;)

[Silver21_Black20]

dont forget an NHL team

Eh...I don't know about that. Have you been to a Rampage game before? The most I've seen there is around 3500 people and that's when the military folk come. Hockey doesn't bring a huge crowd, especially in San Antonio.

I'm all for an MLB team here though. Bring It!!!!

[RealEstateDude]

How did I miss this thread?? Leverage pipe dream?? Maybe but it seems they are disgruntled with Florida and are truly looking to relocate. I hope it's here because watching baseball on tv suks....

[El Fuego]

dont forget an NHL team

Austin can have the NHL team. Austin can help support our NBA, NFL, and MLB teams and San Antonio can help support their NHL team. Oh, and Longhorns

[El Fuego]

Here's the pitch on Marlins

Web Posted: 04/01/2006 12:00 AM CST
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

A proposed baseball-specific stadium in Bexar County that would serve as a home for the Florida Marlins likely would seat 38,700 and include 69 suites, County Judge Nelson Wolff said Friday during a meeting with local business leaders.
With their first face-to-face meeting with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria just days away, Wolff, District Attorney Susan Reed and other county officials spoke to a gathering of nearly 30 people about Bexar County's plans to lure the Marlins to San Antonio.

Mayor Phil Hardberger and former mayor Henry Cisneros also were present at a meeting that was part pep rally and part strategy session for a group that included the heads of most of the area's chambers.

"There is communitywide support already being generated, and the message today was how much support can we take to the Marlins," said Duane Wilson, president and CEO of the North San Antonio Chamber of Commerce. "We want to show them we can fill the suites, and that the community as a whole loves baseball."

Wolff said he has received 36 non-binding, oral commitments from area businesses to rent suites. That information, he said, will be passed on to Loria on Monday in Houston, where a San Antonio contingent led by Wolff, Hardberger and Reed will watch the Marlins' season opener against the Astros as Loria's guest.
The highlight of Friday's hourlong meeting hosted by the San Antonio Chamber of Commerce was a computer-generated slide show that included details about the proposed stadium and the outline for a memorandum of agreement between the county and the team.

According to the Marlins, the ballpark likely would sit on 18.2 acres, require an additional 100-140 acres for parking and include 38 luxury suites with 16 seats each.

There also would be 24 premium suites (20 seats each) and seven party suites (30 seats). The four newest ballparks in MLB have an average of 64 suites.

The presentation didn't address the cost of the proposed ballpark, the possible sites or whether it would have a retractable roof. Wolff said the Marlins told him weeks ago the stadium would cost $310 million, not including a retractable roof or the cost of the land.

Wolff's plan to pay for the proposed stadium requires the county to provide as much as $200 million, with the Marlins picking up the rest of the tab. The county's share would be generated, pending voter approval, through an extension of the hotel and car rental taxes paying for the AT&T Center.

Should the Marlins decide to enter into serious negotiations, county officials say they hope the talks would mirror their arena negotiations with the Spurs in 1999. That process began with the team sending the county a letter of intent.

The parties then entered into a memorandum of agreement, which was needed for the county to call an election.

After voters approved a 1.75 percent tax on hotel stays and a 5 percent tax on car rentals to pay $147.5 million in county bonds, a lease agreement was negotiated. The Spurs paid the rest, including cost overruns.

"That's the template we want to use," said Seth Mitchell, Wolff's chief of staff.

To reach a memorandum of agreement, county officials say the Marlins must commit to the following:

A long-term presence in Bexar County.

A cap on the county's fiscal contribution.

Responsibility for construction and operation of the ballpark.

Meaningful local ownership.

Wolff said several parties have approached him about becoming minority owners in the Marlins.

San Antonio billionaire B.J. "Red" McCombs confirmed Friday he spoke last week with Marlins president David Samson in a "friendly, get-acquainted" phone call.

McCombs told the San Antonio Express-News last month he would give serious consideration to buying into the Marlins if it would help the team move to San Antonio.

Samson "just called to introduce himself," McCombs said Friday. "He said he appreciated the comment about my interest in the Marlins and that he enjoyed his discussions with Judge Wolff and that the team's interest in San Antonio was serious. There was no commitment given and none was asked.

"I think San Antonio has a great shot (at landing the Marlins). Obviously, a lot has to be done before that can be accomplished. But when you have the president of the club just calling an interested citizen saying, 'I want to thank you for making a positive comment and am interested in San Antonio,' it's a good sign."

[TheTruth]

Red was talking about all the great signs he was getting from Tom Benson a few months ago.

[Das Texan]

David Samson told me that he really enjoyed San Antonio, would make for a good market, but that the Marlins preference is to remain in South Florida.


Not really news, but.....


Miami has brought this all onto themselves.

[Buddy Holly]

Red was talking about all the great signs he was getting from Tom Benson a few months ago.

Yeah well luckly Tags isn't the commish for the MLB.

Hell, if Tags was the commish for the NBA he'd have the Spurs relocating right now. :lol

Thank god that guy is retiring.

[Buddy Holly]

David Samson told me that he really enjoyed San Antonio, would make for a good market, but that the Marlins preference is to remain in South Florida.


Not really news, but.....


Miami has brought this all onto themselves.


You actually spoke to David Smason personally?

[TheTruth]

Yeah well luckly Tags isn't the commish for the MLB.

Hell, if Tags was the commish for the NBA he'd have the Spurs relocating right now. :lol

Thank god that guy is retiring.

Thank god for san antonio? or the business that he turned into a multi billion dollar a year company? he did what he thought was best for the NFL. Probably the right decision.

[Das Texan]

You actually spoke to David Smason personally?



via email.


do it on a semi-regular basis.

[gameFACE]

Das Texan is right. The Marlins prefer to stay in south Florida. They have openly mentioned that several times. Don't be surprised if they do. Who cares if SA is used as leverage. What this has done is brought out legitimate studies about SA"s ability to support another pro team. If the Marlins don't pan out for SA there will be another opportunity. Get over the leverage arguement, already. If SA really wants another team it may take several tries. This is the first "real" shot at a team. But keep in mind there are no commitments by anyone yet on either side.


Lone Star Brewery? That's being redeveloped into a major mixed-use center.

I assume you mean the old quarry on the northeast side.
No. I'm referring to the Lone Star Brewery south of Blue Star on Lone Star Blvd as Greenberg mentions. The development you are referring to is the old Pearl Brewery just north of the SA Museum of Art. It's being developed by Silver Ventures (Kit Goldsbury).


Do they have an idea, as to where they would play, if the Marlins moved here?

A temporary site so to speak.
No temporary site available. They would not play here until a new stadium is built. Probably 2010. If we’re lucky 2009 but I doubt it.

[T-Pain]

Loria: Marlins' talks about San Antonio move 'serious'

Associated Press


HOUSTON -- Florida Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said Sunday that discussions with San Antonio officials about the possibility of relocating the team there are serious.

San Antonio has been trying to lure the team and county officials have offered to put up $200 million toward an estimated $300 million ballpark if voters approve extending a tax on hotel and car rentals.

The Marlins slashed their payroll to about $15 million in the offseason because of poor attendance and no progress in Loria's bid for a baseball-specific stadium. Florida plays at Dolphins Stadium, home of Miami's NFL team.

"We're still looking at all our options, but our talks in San Antonio are serious," Loria said on Sunday at Minute Maid Park before addressing his team.

Loria said several officials from San Antonio would join him on Monday when the Marlins open the season against the Houston Astros.

"I've invited them to join us to learn more about San Antonio," he said.

He remained evasive when asked whether he has any hope the Marlins can remain in South Florida, but said no negotiations are ongoing there.

"I really don't know how to answer that," he said. "I can only tell you at this moment that there's nothing going on in South Florida."

Loria doesn't think the relocation issue will be a distraction to his team this season.

"That will get settled one way or another," he said.

Loria has repeatedly said that the Marlins' would prefer to remain in South Florida, but he was less adamant about the issue on Sunday. He has said they will not remain in Dolphins Stadium past 2010.

"We're going to look at all options there and we're also going to look at some other cities," he said.

The tax proposal that Bexar County, where San Antonio is located, has offered would ask voters to extend a hotel and car rental tax approved in 1999 by 20 to 30 years to fund the stadium.

The vote could come as early as the November elections.

[T-Pain]

this is actually one of very few times i will go out and vote in a local election for the hotel and car rental tax to bring the marlins here. as long as it doesnt affect me, im cool wit it. i think the outcome of this vote will determine how interested SA is in bringin in another pro team into town.

[CubanMustGo]

Now that the Marlin (apparently) has talked the city/county into footing the bill for a stadium, another shoe drops:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA2006040306.1A.marlins.8414f41.html


Marlins boss says S.A. TV deal crucial
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

HOUSTON — A lucrative television contract tops the conditions that would persuade the Florida Marlins to seek permission from Major League Baseball to move to San Antonio, a high-ranking team official said Sunday.

For the first time since preliminary talks about a possible Marlins' move to San Antonio began in December, team President David Samson spelled out many details that would have to be met for the club to agree to relocation.

No. 1 is the team's need for a TV deal that would generate millions of dollars per season.

"(Stadium) naming rights, suite deals, season-ticket sales, corporate support — without all of that there is no franchise," Samson said. "But TV revenue is the engine that keeps the train rolling."

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, who is spearheading local efforts to lure the Marlins, has received 36 nonbinding commitments from area businesses and individuals to rent suites at a cost of $100,000-$200,000 a season. A proposed stadium for the Marlins in Bexar County would include 69 suites.

"I'm not trying to say suites aren't important, because that is very high on the list," Samson said. "But all those suites put together don't add up to what can be generated through broadcasting."

Samson addressed the team's relocation needs in an interview with the San Antonio Express-News before the Marlins' opener tonight against the Houston Astros. Several local leaders, including Wolff, District Attorney Susan Reed and Mayor Phil Hardberger will attend the game as guests of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria.

Loria kept his comments to a minimum and spoke mainly in generalities Sunday, but he made it clear San Antonio is the team's top relocation option.

"Our talks with San Antonio are serious," Loria said. "We like what we see and will continue this process. But like all processes it takes time, and we want to be thorough and deliberate."

Bexar County has offered $200 million toward a ballpark, which the team estimates would cost at least $310 million, if voters approve an extension of the tourism taxes paying for the AT&T Center. An election could come as early as November.

The Marlins repeatedly have said they wish to remain in South Florida, but the team says it needs an additional $100 million and free land to put together a deal with Miami-Dade County for a $400 million baseball-specific stadium. The Marlins have offered to spend as much as $212 million for the project.

The Marlins play at Dolphins Stadium, home of Miami's NFL team. It ranked near the bottom of the National League in attendance last season.

The team's lease expires after the 2007 season, but a series of one-year options would allow it to remain through 2010.

"It's overstating it to say talks have stalled (in Florida)," Samson said. "We aren't going back and forth with term sheets, but we are still having global discussions not unlike the talks we are having with Nelson."

Samson called Bexar County's stadium financing plan "an extraordinarily good start to the framework of a deal" but said the Marlins need more specifics and revenue guarantees from Wolff before committing $212 million for a stadium in San Antonio.

"When baseball examines this deal at the end of the day, it is my opinion they would not allow us to move anywhere for the same deal," Samson said. "They would want us to be in a better position."

That's where TV comes into play, Samson said.

FSN Florida, an affiliate of Fox Sports Net, recently received exclusive rights to televise Marlins games in South Florida beginning this season. Samson declined to reveal the amount Fox is paying the Marlins to broadcast as many as 150 of their 162 games.

"The biggest issue we are having right now as we go through the numbers in San Antonio is trying to figure out where we fit in the broadcast market," Samson said.

"It's the No. 1 factor we can't firmly come to grips with, and it's a huge area of competition between Major League Baseball teams and a huge factor in revenue sharing."

Sources said the Marlins already have had exploratory talks with Fox Sports Southwest.

"They are aware of our current situation and recognize the possibility of us moving into one of their markets," Samson said.

San Antonio is the nation's No. 37 media market. Fox Sports Southwest broadcasts Astros games to San Antonio.

Asked what would happen with the Astros and Fox if the Marlins move to San Antonio, Samson said: "It's complicated. A TV territory would have to be carved out and then monetized."

Samson said he is convinced San Antonio's impressive "growth cycle" will continue. But it's not clear whether MLB agrees, he said.

"The worst thing that can happen with a relocation is that it doesn't work," Samson said. "So baseball has to make sure about San Antonio. Beyond the honeymoon, what is the market going to look like. Is this the right move? That's critical."

But there are other factors, Samson said.

"They are looking at revenue, they are pondering the impact relocation would have on divisional alignments, they are pondering the historical significance of a relocation, they are pondering a two-time World Series-winning franchise relocating," Samson said.

"Relocation is hard in all sports. It doesn't just happen overnight. And that's not a stall tactic to get leverage in Florida by any stretch. It's just the reality of the process baseball has embraced for relocation. It's a seldom used, very burdensome process, and it takes intestinal fortitude on behalf of a city and an owner to get to the end of the day."

[Buddy Holly]

No. I'm referring to the Lone Star Brewery south of Blue Star on Lone Star Blvd as Greenberg mentions. The development you are referring to is the old Pearl Brewery just north of the SA Museum of Art. It's being developed by Silver Ventures (Kit Goldsbury).

You're right. My fault, I just saw brewery and my mind when to the Pearl.

That is a great location.

And if you could relocate those rail lines, you could probably have a light rail conttecting that site with both the Alamodome and the AT&T Center.

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA040406.1A.marlins.d7906d6.html

S.A. makes first pitch to Marlins owner
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

HOUSTON — If San Antonio fails to land the Florida Marlins, the blame will land squarely on the city's ranking as the nation's No. 37 media market, county and city officials said Monday after their first meeting with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria.

"The meeting went great and their interest in San Antonio is sincere," Mayor Phil Hardberger said. "But our small media market is a significant obstacle. It's there and you can't sell yourself around it."

Loria, who entertained a San Antonio contingent that also included Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff and District Attorney Susan Reed at the Marlins season opener against the Houston Astros, declined to comment.

The Marlins, who enjoy what team President David Samson calls "very impressive" television ratings in South Florida, recently received a lucrative television contract from Fox Sports Network Florida.

Team officials say they aren't sure what kind of a deal they would get in San Antonio because FSN Southwest already must broadcast Astros and Texas Rangers games in South Texas.

But industry experts and sources with knowledge of the relocation talks between city and county officials and the Marlins, say the Marlins won't get a better television deal in San Antonio. Miami/Fort Lauderdale is the nation's No. 17 media market.

Samson told the San Antonio Express-News on Sunday that a rich local television contract tops the list of conditions that would convince the Marlins to seek permission from Major League Baseball to move to San Antonio.

"(Stadium) naming rights, suite deals, season-ticket ticket sales, corporate support — without all of that there is no franchise," Samson said. "But TV revenue is the engine that keeps the train rolling."

But Samson also said it has been difficult to determine how much television revenue is available in San Antonio because it doesn't know what kind of territory MLB would carve out for the team. Wolff said the Marlins are considering asking MLB to include northern Mexico in the equation.

"The stadium deal we've offered will work fine and the economic forecast for San Antonio is favorable," Wolff said. "The two big unknowns are the media piece and what kind of territory MLB would give."

Said Fox Sports senior vice president for communications Lou D'Ermilio:

"The Marlins and FSN signed a new long-term TV agreement last year that makes FSN Florida the local television home of the Marlins well into this century," D'Ermilio said. "At the time the deal was consummated, both parties knew relocation was a possibility and took that into consideration. While the Marlins and FSN have had preliminary conversations about potential relocation markets, specific conversations can't take place until the Marlins and the team determine what the process and timetable can be."

Hardberger said the Marlins like the growth potential for San Antonio, which has a booming corporate base and is expected to grow in population in the next five years.

But the television problem could be insurmountable, Hardberger said.

"We are growing tremendously and our media market will grow and time is on our side, but right now it's small compared to (the Marlins) standards," Hardberger said.

Minutes before sitting down with the San Antonio contingent in a box behind the Marlins' dugout at Minute Maid Park, Samson insisted the team isn't using the Alamo City as leverage to squeeze a better stadium deal from Miami-Dade County or other municipalities in South Florida.

"If that was what we were trying to do, we have miserably failed," said Samson, referring to the team's inability to strike a deal for a baseball-specific stadium in the Sunshine State.

Wolff and Hardberger flanked Loria for much of the game. They also took turns chatting with Samson, Loria's stepson, who also spent an inning or two talking to Reed.

Other San Antonians seated in the box included Wolff's wife, Tracy; Hardberger's wife, Linda; Lyle Larson, County Commissioner Precinct 3; Seth Mitchell, Wolff's chief of staff; and Ed Schweninger, chief of Bexar County's civil section.

Joel A. Mael, Marlins vice chairman, and P.J. Loyello, Marlins senior vice president for communications and broadcasting, also were present.

The Marlins say they want to remain in South Florida. But stadium talks there have slowed, mainly because the team insists it needs $100 million and free land to complete a deal for a $400 million stadium in Miami-Dade County. The Marlins have offered to pay as much as $212 million to fund the project, mainly through rent payments.

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium expires after the 2007 season, but a series of one-year options would allow the team to continue to play there through the 2010 season.

Bexar County has offered $200 million to build a $310 million stadium should voters extend the hotel and rental-car taxes that are paying for the AT&T Center.

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA040506.4C.BBNmarlins.update.4266898.html

Baseball: Wolff ponders setting deadline for Marlins
Web Posted: 04/05/2006 12:00 AM CDT
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer


County Judge Nelson Wolff said Tuesday he is considering giving Major League Baseball a deadline for announcing whether it plans to allow the Florida Marlins to enter into serious relocation negotiations with Bexar County.

The county wants to accelerate talks because it faces an Aug.15 deadline to put an item on the Nov. 7 ballot asking voters to extend the tourism taxes paying for the AT&T Center.

"If the objective is to go with a November vote, you have to get some decisions made," Wolff said. "We don't need to drag this on forever. I might tell (the Marlins), 'You just need to punt if we don't get it done by so and so a date.' I have to think of timing and things like that."

The Marlins are waiting for MLB to say whether San Antonio, which already has one major-league franchise in the NBA's Spurs, is a viable baseball market.

One question that must be answered, the Marlins say, is whether the team could gain a lucrative local television deal in San Antonio, the nation's No. 37 media market.

Wolff said the Marlins are exploring ways to increase the revenue they would receive through broadcasting rights.

"They are stretching every way to make this work," Wolff said. "We just don't know yet if they can make it work."

Wolff said the Marlins are even studying the prospects of gaining television revenue from northern Mexico.

Former mayor Henry Cisneros is prepared to assist Marlins president David Samson in that effort, Wolff said.

"He and David were going to talk about the Mexico market," Wolff said. "Henry's got a pretty good grasp of that with his connections with (Univision)."

Cisneros stepped down in 2000 as president and chief operating officer of Los Angeles-based Univision Communications Inc., ending a 31/2-year stint with the nation's largest Spanish-language television network.

Wolff, who heads San Antonio's recruitment of the Marlins, spent the past two days in Houston meeting with Samson and Marlins president Jeffrey Loria. On Monday, Loria and Samson entertained Wolff, Mayor Phil Hardberger and District Attorney Susan Reed at the team's season opener in Houston.

Lyle Larson, County Commissioner Precinct 3, also attended the game as Loria's guest. Larson said he thinks there is a 30 percent chance San Antonio will land the Marlins.

"Major League Baseball and the TV situation represent significant hurdles for the Marlins," Larson said.

Larson also speculated that Astros owner Drayton McLane would oppose the Marlins moving to San Antonio, which has long supported the Astros.

"I think Nelson needs to meet with McLane to discuss this with him," Larson said.

The Astros have declined to comment about the Marlins' flirtations with San Antonio. Tom Hicks, the owner of the state's other baseball team, the Texas Rangers, told the Dallas Morning News on Monday he would welcome the addition of a third team.

"It's pretty unbelievable that Texas is the second-largest state in terms of population and that we have only two baseball teams," Hicks said. "California has five. I think eventually we will have another team. Whether this is the time or not, I'm not sure. If the voters in San Antonio support it, we certainly would, too."

The Marlins also have talked to officials from Portland, Ore., and Norfolk, Va., about relocation. Charlotte is also on the Marlins' list, but that city's mayor told The Charlotte Observer he doesn't believe it could support a third major-league team.

"We're not ready," McCrory said. "If (the Marlins) see the same numbers we have, you question why they're interested. I want to make sure we're not being played."

[gameFACE]

The TV deal isn't really another shoe drop. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that SA is a smaller market all around than Miami. Smaller population, income, stadium AND TV market. Duh! The Marlins know that. But you have to go through the PR motions, I guess. Even the NFL and NBA have talked about Mexico. But is the MLB willing to be the first and take a risk to see if it really can generate revenue using Northern Mexico as a TV market? My gut feeling is no. Maybe if there is some creative way they can divy up the tv market SA might still have a good chance. And if SA is taken out of consideration and they still don't get a deal worked out in Miami then Marlins are butt fucking themselves.

I'm glad the Wolffman is considering a deadline. It's okay if you use SA as leverage but only for so long. If you're really not interested, GTFO. Next please.

[El Borracho]

Los San Antonio Aztecs :clap

[Extra Stout]

The Marlins would want Austin as part of their TV territory. Drayton McLane would never let that happen.

[Buddy Holly]

The Marlins would want Austin as part of their TV territory.

And the Valley and northern Mexico.



Drayton McLane would never let that happen.

Money speaks, bullshit walks.

[Extra Stout]

Money speaks, bullshit walks.McLane tiene mucho dinero y mucho poder. No permite que los Marlins tenga este mercado. El equipo de Round Rock, que pertenece a los Astros, tiene mucha popularidad alli.

[Buddy Holly]

McLane tiene mucho dinero y mucho poder. No permite que los Marlins tenga este mercado. El equipo de Round Rock, que pertenece a los Astros, tiene mucha popularidad alli.

I agree, you are a moron.

[lil'mo]

You people in San Antonio are more gullible than the cows standing in line for the slaughterhouse.

[Old School Chic]

McLane tiene mucho dinero y mucho poder. No permite que los Marlins tenga este mercado. El equipo de Round Rock, que pertenece a los Astros, tiene mucha popularidad alli.


Bien dicho :lol

[gameFACE]

You people in San Antonio are more gullible than the cows standing in line for the slaughterhouse.
That's udderly ridiculous.

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA041206.1C.BBOmarlins.city.12d3ed08.html


Baseball: Marlins tout S.A. at home

Web Posted: 04/12/2006 12:07 AM CDT
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Ratcheting up his relocation rhetoric an hour before the Florida Marlins' home opener Tuesday, owner Jeffrey Loria called San Antonio a "very viable market" and threatened to move his team if it is unable to secure a deal for a new ballpark in South Florida.

"I need resolution, because there are other options," Loria said. "We need to act on those options — out of town."

Loria reiterated San Antonio remains the most serious suitor for the Marlins, who lost 9-3 to San Diego before a crowd of 31,308 at Dolphins Stadium, which has a baseball capacity of 36,331.

"Read my lips — they're serious," Loria said of County Judge Nelson Wolff, Mayor Phil Hardberger and other elected officials leading the charge to lure the Marlins to San Antonio.

Bexar County is proposing $200 million in hotel and car-rental tax money, pending voter approval, to finance a $310 million baseball-specific stadium for the Marlins. But the Marlins, who presumably would pick up the rest of the tab, say they can't begin negotiations for a memorandum of agreement with the county until Major League Baseball gives them permission to proceed.

MLB's decision reportedly hinges on whether it believes San Antonio has a large enough media market to support a team. It is unclear when baseball will finish its analysis of the market, but Wolff said he expects word sometime in May or early June. If baseball gives the Marlins the green light and a stadium deal is reached, the county would try to put the issue on the November ballot.

The Marlins, meanwhile, continue to study how much they could generate from a television deal with Fox Sports Network Southwest, Wolff said. Wolff also has met with local Time-Warner officials to discuss the possibility of San Antonio's largest cable provider working a deal with FSN Southwest to carry Marlins games.

"The only thing I know that the Marlins are doing at this time is the media thing, and you can't do that alone," Wolff said. "That has to be done in connection with Major League Baseball."

Wolff said he puts the odds of the Marlins coming to San Antonio at 50-50. Those numbers could improve if baseball allows the Marlins to broadcast games to Austin and northern Mexico and gives the team a share of territory held by the Houston Astros and Texas Rangers.

The San Antonio media market consists of 26 counties and includes 760,410 television households, ranking 37th nationally according to Nielsen Media Research. The Miami-Fort Lauderdale market ranks 17th with three counties and 1.52 million television households.

Media market size is important to owners because television contracts are among the main sources of revenue for baseball teams. The Marlins recently signed a lucrative deal with FSN Florida.

"(San Antonio) is going to come up short, no doubt about that," Wolff said, referring to the difference in market size. "But what baseball is trying to find out is where will San Antonio be five or 10 years from now. Is the market going to grow? Will it be better than Miami? Where is Miami going? Then you have the issue of Mexico."

Wolff said former San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros, also a former Univision Communications Inc. executive, is working the Mexico angle. A Marlins spokesman said the team is "looking at every opportunity out there when it comes to television."

Although baseball would prefer the Marlins remain in South Florida, team officials say they can't do so without a baseball-specific stadium that includes a retractable roof. The final option year of the Marlins' lease with Dolphins Stadium is 2010.

Loria said San Antonio's interest in the team hasn't resulted in any new stadium-financing offers from officials in South Florida.

"I'm optimistic and hopeful that a new stadium will materialize," he said. "I'm basically an optimistic person. But some of that optimism disappeared in the last year."

Seventeen South Florida politicians attended the home opener as Loria's guests.

"I'm hoping we can get this thing moving along," Loria said. "I'm hoping to re-energize (South Florida elected officials). We all have to get together to make this thing happen — everybody who wants to save baseball in South Florida."

So, basically, SA is primarily being used as the foil to get what the Marlins really want - a fancy new stadium in FL. Surprise, surprise.

[METALMiKE]

Baseball: Wolff plans to give Marlins a deadline

Web Posted: 04/16/2006 12:00 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

County Judge Nelson Wolff said Saturday his patience is wearing thin over the length of time it is taking the Florida Marlins to say whether they will pursue relocation to San Antonio.

With that in mind, Wolff promised to slap a deadline on the team this week.

"We are not going to play this game too long," Wolff said. "We know the Marlins need to get a stadium deal done in Florida. They've made that clear. But they're going to have to burn a little midnight oil. We aren't going to wait on them too much longer."

A team spokesman did not return a phone message seeking comment.

Wolff declined to give the date of the deadline, saying he wants to talk to Mayor Phil Hardberger, District Attorney Susan Reed and members of Bexar County Commissioners Court before making it public.

"I'm working on what I am going to write (the Marlins), but I need to talk to some people here first before sending the team a letter," Wolff said.

Wolff wants to ask Bexar County voters in November to extend the hotel and car-rental taxes paying for the AT&T Center to raise $200 million for a proposed $310 million ballpark. He says he needs an answer from the Marlins soon because he faces an Aug. 15 deadline to put the issue on the Nov. 7 ballot and the county and team need to negotiate a memorandum of understanding before that happens.

But the Marlins say they need baseball's permission to enter into memorandum talks with the county and that baseball won't give them an answer until it finishes an analysis of the market.

On Saturday, a high-ranking official disputed that claim. MLB president Bob DuPuy said baseball already has a "good feel for the market" and is waiting for the team to notify MLB of its plans.

"No one is waiting for a green light," DuPuy said. "This is a fluid process. This is not a black-and-white thing where (baseball says), 'We are going to do it in such and such a date.' We are trying to get this done in the best interest of the fans, the Marlins and the game. We are going to let it play out.

"The press always wants to get to the end, and I understand that. But right now we are in the middle. It's a lava light and we will continue to watch it flow until it gets to the end."

DuPuy also said commissioner Bud Selig wants the Marlins to remain in South Florida but hasn't discouraged them from talking to San Antonio. The Marlins' final option year on their lease at Dolphins Stadium expires in 2010.

"We are mindful of what San Antonio's timetable is, but the commissioner's goal remains to try to get a stadium for the Marlins in South Florida," DuPuy said. "The commissioner has given (Marlins owner) Jeffrey Loria permission to review alternatives, and that is where it sits right now."

Told DuPuy's comments, Wolff said DuPuy indicated two weeks ago by phone that baseball would tell the county next month whether it would give the Marlins permission to pursue a move to San Antonio.

"He said, 'We will try to have something to you by May 15,'" Wolff said. "It seems to me baseball and the Marlins are using each other as an excuse for not getting something done."

DuPuy declined to say whether baseball believes San Antonio can support two major-league sports franchises.

"I will say this: We have not told the Marlins not to talk to San Antonio," DuPuy said. "You can draw whatever conclusions you want from that."

The Marlins ranked near the bottom of baseball in attendance last season. They say a new stadium with a retractable roof would give them a significant boost at the turnstile and strengthen their revenue streams. The team remains in talks with elected officials in Miami-Dade County, but it needs free land and an additional $100 million to close a deal.

"The commissioner has never wavered from his view that baseball should be in South Florida, but — and it's a big but — the team needs a new facility," DuPuy said.

[email protected]

[gameFACE]

"He said, 'We will try to have something to you by May 15,'" Wolff said. "It seems to me baseball and the Marlins are using each other as an excuse for not getting something done."

Way to go Wolffman! I'm glad he said that and is setting a timetable. A city has to be willing to do a great deal to land a pro sports franchise but that doesn't mean you have to bend over and take the leverage chorizo from anyone. We have to deal with you. But you also have to deal with US!

San Antonio WILL eventually land another pro franchise. If not the Marlins then some other team. Maybe another MLB team. Maybe the Jags.

[Melmart1]

I totally agree, Hector. I am sick and tired of SA being used for leverage only. I don't see the Marlins leaving South Florida. I say they end up on Palm Beach County, they have already been offered a plot of land there for free to build on, and the cities there support them coming. It's just a matter of time, methinks.

[METALMiKE]

Wolff to Marlins: 'Fish or cut bait' ... by May 15

Web Posted: 04/17/2006 12:36 PM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Bexar County officials have decided to play hardball on the subject of a second major league sports franchise for San Antonio.

County Judge Nelson Wolff, the point man in discussions about the possible relocation of Major League Baseball's Florida Marlins to the city, said today he is imposing a May 15 deadline for the team to commit to a plan to move here.

Wolff said he will fax a letter to Marlins president David Samson this afternoon informing the team of the deadline.

"David knows it's coming," said Wolff, who spoke with Samson via phone today. "He understands."

Wolff tells the Marlins in the letter, obtained by the San Antonio Express-News, that: "We need to fish or cut bait by May 15."

The letter states: "There are only a few moments in the life of a city when political will and leadership are coupled with the financial ability to forge a public-private partnership to build a major sports facility for a relocating team. That moment now exists in San Antonio. It would be in the 'best interest of Baseball' for the Marlins to seize this moment.

"But as I state in my letter of March 12 there are time restraints. In order to leave adequate time to reach required agreements, find a suitable stadium location and organize a campaign, we need to fish or cut bait by May 15."

Bexar County has offered to ask voters to extend the tourism taxes paying for the AT&T Center to raise as much as $200 million toward a new ballpark for the Marlins.

To reach an Aug. 15 deadline to put the stadium measure on the November ballot, the county and the Marlins would need to forge a memorandum of understanding, Wolff said.

"We need to organize a campaign, select (a stadium) site and reach an MOU," Wolff said. "You need time to do that right."

Wolff said setting a deadline is the smart business move.

"I've been in business for a long time and have sold two companies," Wolff said. "I know this game a little. You need to get off the ship or stay on. They need to see if they can get (a stadium deal) in Miami and this sets a time frame for them to do that."

The Marlins need another $100 million in funding and free land to close any stadium deal in Miami-Dade County.

Wolff said the Marlins have told him a baseball stadium in San Antonio would cost $310 million.
[email protected]

[Clandestino]

fuck baseball

[Melmart1]

fuck baseball

:flipoff

[gameFACE]

I totally agree, Hector. I am sick and tired of SA being used for leverage only. I don't see the Marlins leaving South Florida. I say they end up on Palm Beach County, they have already been offered a plot of land there for free to build on, and the cities there support them coming. It's just a matter of time, methinks.

Melissa! What's up, girl? You switched over to the astros yet? :smokin

The leverage game just goes with the territory. It's the nature of team "relocation". But the real problem is between the MLB and the Marlins. That's why i'm glad Wolff just came out and said it. TV market aside the Marlins still don't have a stadium deal. Let them work it out with SA out of the picture. SA has to leave itself open for other opportunities. If for some reason they can't work out a deal SA is the Marlins only real alternative and in that case SA is holding the aces. If SA is told thank you for playing nothing has been lost. The deadline is not just a good business move by Wolff but realistic. Site selection will be politically charged and that will take some months (hoefully by August 15). Then design and construction of the stadium is 2 to 3 years not including the selection of a design team. That would make the Marlins arrival at about 2010. Wolff's deadline is also partly based on the time frame the Marlins have on their current stadium deal.


fuck baseball
Bullshit! If SA were to get an MLB team your ass will be there. You and all the others who say fuck baseball or who bitch about wanting NFL instead of MLB. Your asses will all be there.
:lmao

[Melmart1]

Melissa! What's up, girl? You switched over to the astros yet?

Shiiiiit, ain't happening! RANGERS FOREVER.

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

Written by Rob Neyer: • This whole Marlins moving to San Antonio thing doesn't make any sense to me. For one thing, they keep talking about building a new ballpark for $300 million (with the county kicking in two-thirds of that). Really? The new Busch Stadium cost $345 million ... and that's without a roof, which I'm assuming is going to be a requirement in southwest Texas. And for another -- and here's the real problem -- unless my math is wildly off, the San Antonio market simply isn't large enough to support Major League Baseball. According to Nielsen, San Antonio ranks No. 37 in the U.S ... behind (among others) Sacramento, Calif.; Portland, Ore.; Indianapolis; Charlotte, N.C.; Columbus, Ohio; and Salt Lake City. Perhaps it's simplistic to say the Marlins are simply using Bexar County for leverage, but I think that's exactly what they're doing.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2411138&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_r ob%26id%3d2411138%26lpos%3dspotlight%26lid%3dtab1p os1

[Buddy Holly]

I'm assuming is going to be a requirement in southwest Texas

Yeah, before that pecker starts explaining why SA is not fit for MLB he should first learn something besides media rank.

[gameFACE]

Hey you forgot to add Monterrey-Salinas, wey.........
(I know they're really referring to Monterrey, Ca)

Seriously I wonder how much Monterrey, Mexico would add to the DMA. It has to be a chingon addition. They could get El Pollo Loco as a sponsor. :sombrero:

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA041906.1C.BBOmarlins.city.12506a94.html

Baseball: Hopes fade in pursuit of Marlins
Web Posted: 04/19/2006 12:00 AM CDT
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

One day after setting a May 15 deadline for the Florida Marlins to accept their offer to help fund a stadium, Bexar County officials expressed pessimism that the team is serious about leaving South Florida for South Texas.

Precinct 3 commissioner Lyle Larson, who this week warned local leaders against "groveling" in pursuit of professional sports teams, said he senses the chances of the Marlins moving here have diminished because neither the Marlins nor Major League Baseball seem inclined to reveal their intentions.

"Two weeks ago after we met with (Marlins owner) Jeffrey Loria in Houston, I put the odds of the Marlins coming here at 30 percent," Larson said. "The odds have diminished even more since then. And I say that based on their public comments and the representations they have made to us."

Larson was part of a contingent of county and city officials the Marlins invited to the team's season opener in Houston on April 3. He said Marlins spokesman P.J. Loyello told him during the game he couldn't imagine "us leaving the South Florida market," although unspecified recent events made it more possible.

Still, Larson said he doubts the team has a real interest in moving here. The final option year of the Marlins' lease agreement at Dolphins Stadium is 2010, and team officials say the club can't remain in Miami-Dade County without a new ballpark.

The Marlins, who need free land and an additional $100 million to close a deal in Florida, continue to hold stadium talks with Miami-Dade officials and cities within that county.

"It definitely looks to me like they are using us to leverage a (stadium) deal in Florida," Larson said. "I say that because I've seen their owner on national TV on two different occasions saying his preference is to stay in South Florida. He's not mentioning us.

"It's like we're a boy who's asked a girl to the prom and she says, 'I'd love to go with you, but I'm waiting on another boy to ask me. If he doesn't accept my offer, then I'll get back to you.' We shouldn't have to sit by the phone like that."

Still, Larson declined to call the matter dead.

"I guess they could move here if there was a perfect storm of events," Larson said. "And the perfect storm would be the Miami community deciding not to help build a stadium, baseball consenting to allow the team to move (from the nation's No. 17 media market to the 37th) and the voters of Bexar County embracing building a new complex for these folks. I don't know if all that's going to happen."

County Judge Nelson Wolff, who is spearheading local efforts to lure the Marlins, didn't dispute Larson's "perfect storm" scenario.

"It's pretty close to that, especially with the time limit facing us," Wolff said. "It would be different if we had more time."

The Marlins declined comment.

Wolff said Marlins president David Samson told him by phone Tuesday he was not pleased to hear of the May 15 date, which Wolff said is necessary because the county faces an Aug. 15 deadline to place a stadium-financing measure on the November ballot.

Wolff told the Marlins on March 8 the county could raise as much as $200 million toward a $310 million ballpark if voters approve an extension of hotel and rental-car taxes paying for the AT&T Center.

"(Samson) said he would prefer not to see (a deadline), but he understood because of our time constraints," Wolff said. "He said he would do everything possible on his end of the deal to try to push it."

But Wolff said he is skeptical baseball shares his sense of urgency.

"Baseball, as we all know, tends to move slow," Wolff said. "That's fine if they want to do that, but we can't do that faced with a November election.

"It's all a little frustrating. ... But I'm still smiling. I'm the eternal optimist. It's like Yogi Berra said, 'It's not over 'till it's over.'"

[email protected]

[METALMiKE]

Failing bid for Marlins teaches Wolff a lesson

Web Posted: 04/28/2006 12:00 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

When it comes to courting professional sports franchises, County Judge Nelson Wolff says he's ready to explore new possibilities — and try a new approach — now that talks with Major League Baseball's Florida Marlins appear to have flamed out.

Wolff acknowledged Thursday that lines of communication with the Marlins have gone dead since his decision two weeks ago to give the club a May 15 deadline to commit to San Antonio.

"Every day that goes by, I think there is less and less chance of getting anything done," Wolff said.

Apparently put off by Wolff's deadline, the Marlins are considering at least one new proposal designed to keep the team in South Florida. According to the Miami Herald, officials in Hialeah, Fla., are putting together a plan to provide free land for a new stadium and impose a new business property tax to raise funds for construction.

The money from property taxes paid by businesses that locate in a proposed 1,100-acre industrial park would be split between Hialeah and Miami-Dade County, with shares from both entities going toward the stadium, a Miami-Dade official said.

For the proposal to go forward, it would need approval from the Miami-Dade County Commission and the Hialeah City Council.

"The concept is simple — it's capturing incremental tax revenue," Miami-Dade County Manager George Burgess said. "It looks like a viable way to get a stadium built and could raise significant money."

Miami-Dade already has pledged $110 million to $120 million from other sources toward a $400 million ballpark. The Marlins, meanwhile, have offered as much as $210 million.

Wolff presented the Marlins with a stadium-financing plan March 8 that called for Bexar County to contribute as much as $200 million toward a $310 million ballpark.

"Maybe that will work for them," Wolff said of the Hialeah plan. "I'm not going to get into a bidding war with Miami. I have made that clear. If (the Marlins) can work something out (in South Florida), they need to work it out."

While Wolff says he doesn't consider the Marlins matter dead, he confirmed he canceled a meeting with the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce next week during which local business leaders were to be updated on the relocation effort.

"I don't think there is any reason to meet until we know if this thing is going to go any further," Wolff said.

Signaling his dissatisfaction with the course of discussions with the Marlins and with the NFL's New Orleans Saints last fall, Wolff said he now favors a harder tack in future talks with teams considering relocation.

Echoing comments made two weeks ago by County Commissioner Lyle Larson, Wolff said in the future San Antonio should deal with teams and leagues simultaneously. That way, Larson has said, the city can avoid being used by owners seeking leverage for stadium deals in their own cities.

"If there is a next time, they need to come in a united way and not just in a 'we're-thinking-about-it' mode," Wolff said. "The league and the team considering relocation need to come hand-in-hand and say, 'We need to come to your (city). What will you do?'"

Wolff's comments came after a lunch meeting with Mayor Phil Hardberger.

"They talked about it, and they are on the same page," a spokesman for Hardberger said.

Wolff said he regrets the city hasn't received a "clear signal" from Major League Baseball or the NFL that San Antonio is a ripe relocation option. Still, he said he's optimistic the leagues will come to that conclusion.

"When this is over, assuming the Marlins don't come here, I think baseball has had a good look at San Antonio, and so has the NFL," Wolff said. "Next time — and I think it is only a matter of time — the team and the league need to come with a united banner."

Larson applauded the new approach.

"We have to take a different strategy and focus on talking to the leagues, the commissioners and their relocation committees," Larson said. "They are the ones that are going to make the decisions, not the teams."

[gameFACE]

Seems like this is a "go through the motions" type of thing:

Marlins to view S.A. sites: Officials will visit as planned with Florida park talks continuing

Web Posted: 05/03/2006 12:20 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Although they remain cautiously optimistic about a new stadium-financing plan in Miami-Dade County, the Florida Marlins are sending three team officials to San Antonio today to tour possible stadium sites with Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff.

Wolff said he and Marlins president David Samson set the date several weeks ago. The two spoke by phone Friday to confirm the details, Wolff said.

Claude Delorme, the Marlins' senior vice president for stadium development, will head the contingent, Wolff said.

The tour comes as Hialeah (Fla.) and Miami-Dade County officials are exploring using property taxes generated by industrial and office park development proposed for Hialeah to raise funds for a ballpark.

"We'll see how it plays out, what happens," Wolff said Tuesday. "I had a long, long talk with David on Friday, and I think they really are struggling with what to do and exploring every opportunity there is so they can come to their decision.

"It's a tough deal for them. I don't envy them."

Wolff presented the Marlins on March 8 with a stadium-financing plan that called for Bexar County to contribute as much as $200 million toward a $310 million ballpark.

The property taxes in Hialeah would be paid by businesses that locate in a proposed 1,100-acre industrial park. The funds collected then would be split between Hialeah and Miami-Dade County, with shares from both going toward the stadium.

Approval from the Miami-Dade County Commission and the Hialeah City Council would be needed to go forward.

Samson reiterated the team wants to remain in South Florida.

"We have continued to tell San Antonio that South Florida is our first choice," Samson told the Miami Herald. "We are pleased with the very recent progress that has been made with Miami-Dade County and the city of Hialeah."

Wolff said most potential sites for a stadium in San Antonio are in northeast Bexar County.

"They've done quite a bit of research on their own, but we'll brief them on the major population areas," Wolff said.

Mayor Phil Hardberger is also expected to meet with the Marlins' officials before they return to Miami on Thursday, Wolff said.

Wolff's conversation with Samson last week was his first with anyone from the organization since his decision to give the club a May 15 deadline to commit to San Antonio.

The Marlins say they need a new baseball-specific stadium to improve attendance.

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium expires after the 2007 season, but they could continue playing there through 2010 by exercising a series of one-year options.

link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA050306.1C.BBOmarlins.city.2f3e4e1.html)

[gameFACE]

By the way, here is a link to Ken Rodriguez' "I'm a bitter small town minded San Antonian who is just appalled by the leverage card" type column: bitter man (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/columnists/krodriguez/stories/MYSA043006.03A.krod.7b4af9f.html)

It's not worth posting the article. It just reaks of laughable little league bitterness. :lol

[METALMiKE]

Marlins Back In SA For Stadium Sight Seeing
LAST UPDATE: 5/3/2006 6:08:54 PM
Posted By: Michael Campion
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.woai.com.

The Florida Marlins may not be out of San Antonio's reach just yet, after the Major League Baseball team's executives pay another visit to the Alamo City.

On Wednesday, Marlin executives were scouting four different areas for potential stadium sites. One was at the Longhorn Quarry on the city's northeast side, where the Spurs looked at before going to the east side.

"You can take Wurzbach Parkway off of I-35", said Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff. "You could take Thousand Oaks to Perrin-Beitel, so you've got a lot of different ways to get to it. so it makes it very attractive."

Wolff also points out that it's more than just accessibility, the Longhorn Quarry offers almost twice the 120 acres needed to accommodate a stadium. So with all that land, he says the old quarry leaves a lot of room for expansion and other developments around it. :smokin

[METALMiKE]

just a quick question but, if SA did get the Marlins (or any other MLB team) what would be a good name?ive heard some ppl saying the Marlins could buy the naming rights to the Missions,sounds good to me. :)

also

What would be a GOOD location for the stadium in YOUR mind? Personally I think the grounds of the at&t Center.

[mike detroit]

San Antonio won't get the marlins. the perception, nationwide, is that san antionio is a small town that can barely support one major sport team. is that a wrong and unfair perception? absolutely, but it exists nonetheless.

[fyatuk]

just a quick question but, if SA did get the Marlins (or any other MLB team) what would be a good name?ive heard some ppl saying the Marlins could buy the naming rights to the Missions,sounds good to me. :)

also

What would be a GOOD location for the stadium in YOUR mind? Personally I think the grounds of the at&t Center.

Well, we might know by the end of the day on the Marlins. State Senate should be voting on a subsidy that will probably make or break the current talks with Hialeah. If it passes there, it'll likely pass the House and get Gov. Bush's sig as well. If it doesn't, the deals basically dead.

Personally I think the Longhorn Quarry is the best location in terms of potential success. The AT&T center is probably the best in terms of city development though.

Of course unless negotiations would change it, you still have $110 million gap (at least, you'd have to assume the county would make the team responsible for overruns) that the Marlins don't have the on-hand cash to fund. And given the market, average income of the area, and Marlins historic financial struggles, it might be hard to get a private sector loan. Wonder if they could talk Perry into a low/no interest loan from the TEF since that's completely under his control.

[dtk]

So, basically, SA is primarily being used as the foil to get what the Marlins really want - a fancy new stadium in FL. Surprise, surprise.


No no no, Surprise is in Arizona...

Seriously, I'd love it if San Antonio got a Baseball team.

[Extra Stout]

Of course unless negotiations would change it, you still have $110 million gap (at least, you'd have to assume the county would make the team responsible for overruns) that the Marlins don't have the on-hand cash to fund. And given the market, average income of the area, and Marlins historic financial struggles, it might be hard to get a private sector loan. Wonder if they could talk Perry into a low/no interest loan from the TEF since that's completely under his control.
Stop looking to the state for handouts to get a professional sports team.

[fyatuk]

Stop looking to the state for handouts to get a professional sports team.

1) I didn't ask for a handout, I asked for a loan from an account meant to give loans and grants to entice corporations to move into/stay in the state and assist small businesses. Perfectly valid use of the TEF in line with its purpose.

2) I really wasn't serious anyway. It was more of a comment on the fact that Hialeah is looking for state funds to get the Marlins on their site.

[METALMiKE]

I live on a street called Hialeah. :spin

[Buddy Holly]

Of course unless negotiations would change it, you still have $110 million gap

Actually, you have to add the Marlins portion to the stadium which I believe would be over 200 million.

Although, I think they'd def. want a roof on the thing so that adds about 40-50 million to the cost.

[Buddy Holly]

BTW, the bill/amendment did not pass the Senate.....

[METALMiKE]

Marlins denied state funding for stadium

Team still determined to get new home in Miami-Dade County
By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com

MIAMI -- For the third straight year, the Marlins had their bid to secure state funding to help build a stadium shot down.

But less than an hour after the Florida Legislature adjourned without approving state assistance, Marlins president David Samson told MLB.com that the team is determined to get a new stadium built in Miami-Dade County.

"We are disappointed with the result that occurred in Tallahassee," Samson said early Saturday morning. "But I've talked to officials from the county and city of Hialeah, and we agreed to wake up tomorrow and continue building the momentum we've had the last few weeks."

The Marlins are negotiating with Hialeah officials on a 38,000-seat, retractable-roof stadium. Those talks will continue, even without state funding.

At midnight Friday, the Florida House of Representatives adjourned without putting the Marlins' stadium issue up for a vote.

Actually, the push for state funding was a mild surprise. On Wednesday, politicians from Miami-Dade County and the city of Hialeah pursued state help in the form of a sales tax subsidy.

At 11:45 p.m. ET, the Florida Senate, which had opposed assisting the Marlins in the past, approved the $60 million sales tax subsidy by a 20-16 vote.

The subsidy would have given the Marlins a $2 million tax rebate on sales tax generated by the stadium over the next 30 years.

But with just 15 minutes left in the session, time ran out in the House.

Samson thanked the politicians who supported and pushed hard to get state help. Samson didn't speculate if Florida Gov. Jeb Bush would call a special session to revive state support.

"We continue to have a lot of momentum locally to get this done," Samson said.

The Marlins were granted permission to seek relocation last November. San Antonio has made a strong push should the team opt to leave the state of Florida.

Encouraged by discussions with Miami-Dade County and Hialeah, Samson repeated early Saturday morning that remaining in South Florida is the Marlins' primary objective.

"We remain resolute to keep the Marlins in South Florida," Samson said.

Joe Frisaro is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[fyatuk]

Actually, you have to add the Marlins portion to the stadium which I believe would be over 200 million.

Although, I think they'd def. want a roof on the thing so that adds about 40-50 million to the cost.

Using the figures supplied by Judge Wolff and the Marlins, in SA the Marlins contribution would be $110 million. That is probably a low ball estimate.

A retractable roof stadium in Miami would cost $480 million supposedly, and I doubt the difference in land/construction costs would be $130 million, so I think a retractable roof is probably closer to $100 million. And they should do a roof, since outdoors in July and August around here SUCKS!

And about your other posts, it DID pass the Senate, but with only 15 minutes until the end of session there was no chance to vote on it in the House, so it is dead. The Senate most likely timed that on purpose since it was pretty much assured of passing in the House. Makes the Senate look good for approving it without it really having a chance of going through.

[word]

I read that the Fla legislature just gave the Marlins a $50 million subsidy to keep 'em alive, as they do their other teams. I think I read the attendance at the Marlins last home game was around 6600, which is lower than what their AAA farm team gets on average.

[gameFACE]

^^You must be thinking of the $60 million subsidy that was denied last night. It passed the Senate but time ran out for the bill to be heard by the House. Seems kind of silly but there must be some political reason for this to have happened. What a bummer. Now they've lost eight straight games, the lights went out at Dolphin Stadium last night, and funding doesn't get passed. Damn, if you're a fan living in Florida things must really suck!

They still have plenty of options though.

[word]

Good deal. SA still has a chance. I think they would do well here. Hell they couldn't do worse than where they are.

[gameFACE]

:smokin Looks like Richard Oliver may have read my posts in here before he wrote this article for the Snooze:


The lesson learned, at long last?

We deserve better than being patronized as part of someone's bureaucratic shell game. Accordingly, the message now should be blunt for whichever disgruntled franchise owner comes calling next, whether Jeffrey Loria or Tom Benson.

We'd love to have you join one of the nation's ascendant communities.

But make no mistake.

Just because we lust after you, it doesn't necessarily mean we need you.

And that the games people play don't always take place on the field.

But we knew that already.

That dealing with sports franchises looking to move is dirty business is nothing new to us, of course. The recent years have shown us that such courtships demand more than deep pockets and a willing citizenry.

It often requires soap, hot water and heavy gargling.

No one comes away from these things feeling completely clean, and we can now survey the grime from this most recent flirtation and see it for what it is: another layer of needed experience.

Certainly, reeling in the Marlins would be a home run. But San Antonio should understand, more and more, that it is the real catch.

The ambitious Wolff, who is rightfully admired for his dogged spearheading of attempts to elevate the city's national identity, appears to recognize this with more certainty than ever before. Stung by recent criticism by Bexar County Commissioner Lyle Larson, who accurately reflected a growing national perception that San Antonio sometimes appears to be "groveling," the judge set a May 15 deadline for Florida to accept an offer of $200 million in public funding and free land toward a stadium.

The Marlins are expected to ignore the date. Major League Baseball, by its silence, has indicated no desire to surrender the nation's No. 17 media market in favor of No. 37.

Big deal.

Others will come sniffing around, and the past few weeks show that San Antonio officials increasingly appear ready to negotiate with more than crossed fingers and dreamy stares.

Wolff has joined Larson in stressing that any future discussions will only be pursued with teams and leagues simultaneously. It's a sound game plan designed to eliminate the city being used as a political pawn, and it may be in play soon.
full article (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/roliver/stories/MYSA050706.3C.COL.BBNoliver.marlins.77fa566.html)

[METALMiKE]

San Antonio, Marlins end courtship for now

By Carlos Frías

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Thursday, May 11, 2006

The Marlins won't be moving to San Antonio, at least not any time soon.

Officials in Bexar County, Texas, had set a May 15 deadline for the Marlins to pledge a move west. But the team this week declined to meet the deadline, saying its preference was to work out a deal in South Florida, according to a San Antonio official.

"Major League Baseball wants them to exhaust all the possibilities in South Florida. That's what the Marlins indicated they want to do. That's their preference," Bexar County Commissioner Lyle Larson said Wednesday.

The Marlins made the decision despite a recent setback in their quest for money to build a South Florida stadium.

Friday night, with less than half an hour before the end of the 2006 legislative session, the Florida Senate passed a bill to give the Marlins $60 million in subsidies to help build a stadium. But as the clock struck midnight, the session ended before the House could vote on the bill.

Judge Nelson Wolff, who presides over the Bexar County Commission, spoke with Marlins President David Samson after the no-vote and Samson said they still were intent on working out a deal in South Florida, Larson said.

San Antonio, which has failed to land baseball and football teams in the past, again feels like it has been rejected, Larson said.

"We're going to stop courting them for now," Larson said. "As in a classic courtship, we're hurt and they're getting what they want."

Wolff wanted a written commitment from the Marlins by May 15, expressing their intention to move if voters in November approve $200 million in rental car and hotel taxes to help build a stadium.

Wolff did not return calls Wednesday and a Marlins spokesman said the team had no comment.

South Florida leaders hoping to work out a deal with the Marlins remain confident, despite the recent failure in Tallahassee.

Hialeah Mayor Julio Robaina, who approached the Marlins about building a stadium in his city on land east of Florida's Turnpike, said he was told there were sufficient votes in the House to pass the bill. That legislation would have offered up to $60 million in subsidies to the Marlins and Florida's eight other professional teams.

The Marlins remain at least $100 million short of the $420 million the team says it needs to build a retractable roof stadium, although recent cost estimates have the project reaching $500 million.

Robaina said they will eventually need that $60 million commitment from the state for the deal to happen.

"I think our doors are open for next year," Robaina said. "It's important to have that component. I wish we had it today. I'm sure we'll get it next year."

Bexar County's Larson said the courtship of the Marlins is "definitely over this year," but San Antonio will reconsider the Marlins' interest if a deal reaches an impasse in South Florida.

"I don't think that door is closed completely," Larson said.

[CubanMustGo]

Bexar County's Larson said the courtship of the Marlins is "definitely over this year," but San Antonio will reconsider the Marlins' interest if a deal reaches an impasse in South Florida.

"I don't think that door is closed completely," Larson said.

How many times does this need to be said:

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Horry For 3!]

They just talked about this on the news right now, that a deal didn't get done and they proposed a deal to build a statium worth 200 mil.

[METALMiKE]

yah,the Marlins didnt meet the deadline. :madrun

[gameFACE]

They were never going to. Please tell me you're not really upset.

[METALMiKE]

ok :) im not upset AT ALL,I knew it all along that SA wouldnt get the Marlins.

[Vashner]

I say we dump 200 mill into the alamodome..

Make it all fancy with wood floored lux boxes and shit.

[Extra Stout]

I say we dump 200 mill into the alamodome..

Make it all fancy with wood floored lux boxes and shit.
The Alamodome cannot be configured for baseball unless the roof is removed.

That was part of Henry Cisneros' conspiracy to keep SA a small market.

[METALMiKE]

The Alamodome cannot be configured for baseball unless the roof is removed.

That was part of Henry Cisneros' conspiracy to keep SA a small market.

I think he's saying that to lure a NFL team,not to put MLB in the dome...

:drunk

[METALMiKE]

just thought of a good name for a SA mlb team;

the San Antonio Admirals :fro

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Milwaukee_admirals_200x200.png
with something like this as the logo.