Preseason Grades: Spurs at Heat - Oct. 15, 2024

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-heat-2025-preseason-4/

[John B]

Thanks for the grades. 22 TO’s is all that struck to me. If not for the 52% shooting, the game would’ve been long decided. But I guess it’s the pre-season. I need to see more CP3 orchestrating more, finding opportunities for Wemby to score. I want to see more pick and roll, and diss to an open 3.

I like Kelton’s energy coming off the bench. Already he was aggressive as soon as he got in.

I like Castle’s strong finish to the basket. I thought he’s really advanced at attacking the rim with contact. He’s just going to get stronger.

I like Malaki’s efforts tonight. I think they made it a game towards the end. Malaki has a knack for scoring. But right now, Champagnie is way ahead of him.

Bassey was a traffic cone out there. I like Collins energy more.

You mentioned Jones, Johnson, Collins, Castle and Wesley as the 1st 5 to complete the 10 players rotation. You’re forgetting Champagnie is only covering for Devin at starting 2. Champ brings much needed scoring. That’s interesting who gets pushed out of that 10-players rotation. It’s a good problem.

[Pauleta14]

Too soon to worry about Wemby's total absence of evolution in is game?

Maybe he's just a bit banged up as Pop suggested, but he doesn't look good to me

[onechance87]

Too soon to worry about Wemby's total absence of evolution in is game?

Maybe he's just a bit banged up as Pop suggested, but he doesn't look good to me

Yea...still looks like he still trying to figure it out and dont really know what to do.Was hoping he would improve his shooting to have
sum type of scoring option cause posting up he seems to struggle with or avoid.

[Davidicus]

I unfortunately don’t have any paper trail, but I always thought Wemby might start overthinking things in season 2. It’s just natural, with any rookie season you’re so present because everything is so new. He’s smart enough to snap out of it soon though.

Castle continues to wow. You put him in and his athleticism, handles, footwork, and body awareness (to the rim) make his teammates look like G leaguers. Put him in coach.

[polandprzem]

Too soon to worry about Wemby's total absence of evolution in is game?

Maybe he's just a bit banged up as Pop suggested, but he doesn't look good to me

He looks pretty good tbh.

[polandprzem]

Good game for Sochan- hopefully this is going to be his breakthrough year. Looks better physically and position he is in suits him better. Still his hands are not there. :)

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Too soon to worry about Wemby's total absence of evolution in is game?

Maybe he's just a bit banged up as Pop suggested, but he doesn't look good to me
if he continues to play with Jayson Tatum's shot selection, San Antonio might be ready to open a brickyard

[Pauleta14]

He looks pretty good tbh.

I'd have like to see a couple moves near the basket he'd have worked on, he himself admited he has to go straight at his move once he receives the ball for ex, rather than waiting and allowing to defense to position itself better.

He knows he has to spend more time in the paint and I don't see him being enthousiatic about it.

My question was rethorical of course it's early but I'm kinda disapointed to see the exact same Vic and usual choices/moves

[Pauleta14]

if he continues to play with Jayson Tatum's shot selection, San Antonio might be ready to open a brickyard

His skinny ass is going to be an issue. I like the bulk on the shoulders and arms, but hips and ass are key in post moves and I don't see any improvement in that area.

[Brazil]

improvement in ass and hips ? you want him to become a fatass ? :lol

[John B]

The Admiral had like the skinniest hips when he was playing. And had a HOFer career with those hips :lol

[Pauleta14]

improvement in ass and hips ? you want him to become a fatass ? :lol

You don't need a fat ass but you need a solid core and hip mobility/strength

There are plenty of exercices to work on it, it usually shows on the glutes. area where Vic is flat as fuck :lol

[Pauleta14]

The Admiral had like the skinniest hips when he was playing. And had a HOFer career with those hips :lol

Go watch pictures of him, he was a lot thicker and muscular than Vic in that area

I'm not talking about hip width

[John B]

Go watch pictures of him, he was a lot thicker and muscular than Vic in that area

I'm not talking about hip width

I’ll take your word for it :lol

[polandprzem]

I'd have like to see a couple moves near the basket he'd have worked on, he himself admited he has to go straight at his move once he receives the ball for ex, rather than waiting and allowing to defense to position itself better.

He knows he has to spend more time in the paint and I don't see him being enthousiatic about it.

My question was rethorical of course it's early but I'm kinda disapointed to see the exact same Vic and usual choices/moves

Hey there is a thread about his physical attributes :)

And he played close to zero minutes. Pre season to him is vastly irrelevant as he had Olympics etc.

He do look way better this year then the last one. His gate is better he got stronger and this year not gonna be experiment at the PG position. He [plays just to shake some bball rust and IMO he still not ended his S&C cycle so he is gonna be bit slower then later in a season.

Place your worries about the game in January not in minor preseason minutes. :)

[Pauleta14]

Hey there is a thread about his physical attributes :)

And he played close to zero minutes. Pre season to him is vastly irrelevant as he had Olympics etc.

He do look way better this year then the last one. His gate is better he got stronger and this year not gonna be experiment at the PG position. He [plays just to shake some bball rust and IMO he still not ended his S&C cycle so he is gonna be bit slower then later in a season.

Place your worries about the game in January not in minor preseason minutes. :)


Yeah I'm probably tripping with these meaningless games

[Mr. Body]

It's apparently not uncommon for a star to have a step back in the second year. Hopefully we don't see that with Wemby.

Turnovers were ugly, ugly. I watched a Sacto game this week -- vs. Portland -- where they were just awful, seemingly bored, and TO'd like crazy. This game for the Spurs looked more like players not quite being on the same page. Miami is also a way step up over the Utah second string.

Surprisingly, of all the guys on the roster the one who seems to get his role the most right now is Keldon.

Collins looked pretty good. If his shot never comes back, that sucks, but he was moving and using space and all that pretty well.

Branham had a good game. If he can hit his shots, that would be great. I'm not too concerned yet. But his cutting and movement were good. Most important, he was in the right places on defense and staying in. I want him to affect the stat sheet beyond shots and he did. Even a steal and a block. But I don't know where he's going to get minutes.

[Mugen]

I'd much rather see Mamu get minutes over Wesley....

There's nothing that Blake adds that Castle already doesn't do off the bench, at a much higher level tbh. Mamu gives you so much needed shooting on a team with very, very little of it.

[itzsoweezee]

Wemby is fine. He definitely needs to be quicker with his decision making. But overall, he and the rest of the spurs did a good job of moving the ball to find the open man. It’s going to be an adjustment to play with the ball a little less in his hands this season. There’s a good chance it won’t look pretty for the first month or so of the season

[Mugen]

Wemby's turnovers come mostly from when he's parked 2 feet beyond the 3pt line and dribbling for 5 seconds.

When he gets the rock within 10ft, he's unguardable and his interior passing is much better.

He really, really needs that Embiid face up jumper. It shouldn't be so hard for a 7'4" as skilled as he is to get easy looks tbh.

[LeBowen]

The biggest issue with Wemby is that most of his touches are too far away from the basket.
Some of it is on his lack of strength, but most is on his teammates' inability to get him the ball.
Those few passes CP3 had against Utah wouldn't have been attempted by anyone else.

[z0sa]

Wemby needs to find his bread and butter move, and it's not shooting 3 pointers. Unfortunately, our lack of shooting once again looks like it will tank several of his possessions a game as they all start orbiting around him as soon as he has the ball inside the 3pt line. Unless he can somehow find some space, it's going to be some more struggling for him on the interior. If his 3 isn't falling, it's too easy to pack the paint on him and disrupt our Wemby-centric plays. Sure, guys like CP3 can still make plays happen, and we've got better cutting thus far this pre-season (especially from Sochan).

But he either needs to be able to break down players in isos or high post actions very quickly, or he's going to be meeting 3 defenders once again time after time...

[rankingtear]

The biggest issue with Wemby is that most of his touches are too far away from the basket.
Some of it is on his lack of strength, but most is on his teammates' inability to get him the ball.
Those few passes CP3 had against Utah wouldn't have been attempted by anyone else.

Batum is the best entry passer in the league and he still struggled to get deep post in the olympics.

[spurraider21]

Wemby's turnovers come mostly from when he's parked 2 feet beyond the 3pt line and dribbling for 5 seconds.

When he gets the rock within 10ft, he's unguardable and his interior passing is much better.

He really, really needs that Embiid face up jumper. It shouldn't be so hard for a 7'4" as skilled as he is to get easy looks tbh.
he can just rise up and shoot over guys the way KD does. doesnt need a little rocker step fade like embiid to get it off tbh

[rjv]

1) it's the preseason and no one is going to risk an injury and 2) they were in miami.

[heyheymymy]

Almost won on the road with no Vassell and mins restrictions Vic against Bam Butler and Herro while playing Blake, Bran and Zollins together for the entire 4Q

I'll also say a tip of the cap to MIA who always seem to play greater than the sum of all parts since the Heatles era. So many plays last night where the MIA experience made mincemeat out of SA.

[Mugen]

he can just rise up and shoot over guys the way KD does. doesnt need a little rocker step fade like embiid to get it off tbh

KD generates a lot of those rise and shoot opps by being elite at coming off screens and moving without the ball tbh. I don't trust the old man to generate that same action nor do I think Vic will ever be at KD's level on that front.

I basically just want him to establish the same early position that Embiid does and go from there. Granted, Embiid is significantly stronger but it still shouldn't be too hard to get him the ball there. I lose my shit when he's getting the ball 25ft out and everybody stands around waiting for him to do something with it. Wemby and the coaching staff need to be much better on cutting that out.

[spurraider21]

KD generates a lot of those rise and shoot opps by being elite at coming off screens and moving without the ball tbh. I don't trust the old man to generate that same action nor do I think Vic will ever be at KD's level on that front.

I basically just want him to establish the same early position that Embiid does and go from there. Granted, Embiid is significantly stronger but it still shouldn't be too hard to get him the ball there. I lose my shit when he's getting the ball 25ft out and everybody stands around waiting for him to do something with it. Wemby and the coaching staff need to be much better on cutting that out.
obviously he's not going to move as well as KD, but it doesnt take as much to shake a center compared to the wings guarding KD. but yeah if vic is being guarded by a small, he should just do what KP does

agreed that too often we see vic dancing with the ball 25 feet out. its ugly offense and half the time he stumbles over his own feet :lol. im not sure if thats the plays being designed or if its just him bringing the ball up the floor hoping to walk into a pull-up 3, and then improvising when its not there. given what we've seen from him, i think a lot of that stuff is still his own immaturity as a player and less of a team strategy.

[Mugen]

obviously he's not going to move as well as KD, but it doesnt take as much to shake a center compared to the wings guarding KD. but yeah if vic is being guarded by a small, he should just do what KP does

agreed that too often we see vic dancing with the ball 25 feet out. its ugly offense and half the time he stumbles over his own feet :lol. im not sure if thats the plays being designed or if its just him bringing the ball up the floor hoping to walk into a pull-up 3, and then improvising when its not there. given what we've seen from him, i think a lot of that stuff is still his own immaturity as a player and less of a team strategy.

Agreed. But I think it's also an extension of the "we don't want to pigeonhole him into a box..." or "we're still figuring him out" that the old man was spouting last year.

If CP0 can get on him about staying away from that shit more then his contract would be well worth it. I'd have to imagine PATFO is still probably walking on eggshells around Wemby considering he's their first actual superstar since Nephew screwed them tbh.

[Pauleta14]

Agreed. But I think it's also an extension of the "we don't want to pigeonhole him into a box..." or "we're still figuring him out" that the old man was spouting last year.

If CP0 can get on him about staying away from that shit more then his contract would be well worth it. I'd have to imagine PATFO is still probably walking on eggshells around Wemby considering he's their first actual superstar since Nephew screwed them tbh.

He talked about it this Summer with France after the struggles of the NT, he acknowledged that he needs to make quicker decisions and slash as soon as he gets the ball in the paint/post.

He must use his mobility at its fullest to compensate his lack of weight in the paint

[Vince Carter's ankle]

obviously he's not going to move as well as KD, but it doesnt take as much to shake a center compared to the wings guarding KD. but yeah if vic is being guarded by a small, he should just do what KP does

agreed that too often we see vic dancing with the ball 25 feet out. its ugly offense and half the time he stumbles over his own feet :lol. im not sure if thats the plays being designed or if its just him bringing the ball up the floor hoping to walk into a pull-up 3, and then improvising when its not there. given what we've seen from him, i think a lot of that stuff is still his own immaturity as a player and less of a team strategy.
I think he'll shoot 7-8 threes and most of them will be pull-up jumpers like at the end of last season

-shot 32.5% on 5.5 3s per game (6.1 3PA per 33min)
-in his first 20 games shot 25.5% on 5.1 3s per game (5.6 3PA per 33min), (started the season with around the same volume than in europe)
-in his last 50 games shot 34.9% on 5.7 3s per game (6.4 3PA per 33min), (took 1.3 more 3pts per 33min than at 18yo)
-in his last 30 games shot 35.3% on 6.3 3s per game (6.6 3PA per 33min)
-in his last 20 games shot 33.8% on 7.0 3s per game (7.1 3PA per 33min)
-in his last 10 games shot 33.3% on 8.1 3s per game (8.1 3PA per 33min)

The Spurs’ season ended in early April and by May, Wembanyama was back in San Antonio. Popovich gave him a list—three pages long— of things to drill down on. Half offense, half defense. For six weeks, Wembanyama worked. After a monthlong Olympic tour with the French national team—Wembanyama averaged 15.8 points per game in a silver-medal-winning effort—he was back. Individual work in the morning. Scrimmaging in the afternoon. At night, Wembanyama was back in the gym getting up a thousand shots—mostly threes. Around the Spurs these days, there is a palpable energy. Like, what you saw from Wembanyama last season was special—but you ain’t seen nothing yet.

The message was surprising. Since retiring from the NBA in 2020, Jamal Crawford, a slick-handling scorer, has dabbled in individual coaching. Guards, mostly, a position Crawford adeptly played for 20 seasons. In March, Crawford’s phone buzzed. Victor would like to work out with you, Ndiaye texted. Do you have time to come to Texas after the season? Wembanyama, in tinkering with ways to improve his pull-up three, admired how Crawford was able to shake defenders and was hoping to collect a few pointers. In June, Crawford flew to San Antonio. For several days, the two ran drills. “It’s actually scary how fast he learns,” Crawford says. “He was picking up footwork and rhythms that took me years in a matter of minutes.” At night, the two went to dinner, where Wembanyama would mine Crawford’s mind. “I’ve never met a 20-year-old like him,” Crawford says. “When it comes to basketball, working with him is one of the greatest things I’ve ever been a part of.”

Popovich, 75, embraced the challenge. He has polished Tim Duncan, developed Tony Parker and harnessed the skills of Manu Ginobili. In Wembanyama, Popovich was gifted a player with more raw talent than any of them. The task was refining it. Initially, they focused on footwork. Popovich showed Wembanyama film of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Rocker steps, pivots, pump fakes. “We talked to him about how important it was to get that base really solid and disciplined,” Popovich says. He encouraged Wembanyama to watch how Stephen Curry moved after the pass. “Chasing space,” Popovich says. “We weren’t teaching him Kareem’s skyhook. Simple concepts.”

Indeed, Wembanyama expects his game to grow as he does. Not up, but out. Officially, Wembanyama weighed 210 pounds last season. He will weigh more in this one. Spurs coaches pushed him to be more aggressive last season. Opponents, looking for advantages, would often use sturdier wing players to try to push him off his spots. Among the things he worked on with Crawford was how to deal with physical defenders. “I think my physical potential,” Wembanyama pauses. “I don’t know where it can lead me. I’m sure it’s not complete at all. I want to work so that I have the chance one day to invent new things.”

Pop’s offseason program focused on defensive fundamentals. How to close out better. How to use his hands, his length. How to get between two spots on the floor and remain balanced. Offensively, it was decision-making. “He intuitively understands space and where people are, but he tends to dribble in crowds,” Popovich says. Shooting drills to become more efficient from beyond the three-point line. Popovich estimates Wembanyama worked with eight to 10 different Spurs coaches this summer.

https://www.si.com/nba/2024-25-season-preview-the-seeker-spurs-victor-wembanyama-journey-just-beginning

[Dex]

The first five players off the bench were Jones, Johnson, Collins, Castle and Wesley. If that is indeed the ten-man rotation, that means Branham, Mamukelashvili and Bassey will begin the season on the outside looking in.

I really want Mamu over Collins but understand that is unlikely given how Pop treats his "veterans"

Collins had a better outing against Miami but I am still just so over this dude. He's lost his outside shot, he's a foul machine, and the best thing he provides is fake toughness while not really presenting much of a challenge on defense.

Mamu is not perfect either but has proven he can shoot and pass, both things the offense desperately needs on a regular basis.

[exstatic]

I really want Mamu over Collins but understand that is unlikely given how Pop treats his "veterans"

Collins had a better outing against Miami but I am still just so over this dude. He's lost his outside shot, he's a foul machine, and the best thing he provides is fake toughness while not really presenting much of a challenge on defense.

Mamu is not perfect either but has proven he can shoot and pass, both things the offense desperately needs on a regular basis.

Mamu isn’t a five, and struggles in the position. He can’t displace Collin’s or Bassey. He needs to hope that Barnes really is washed and not going 75% because it was preseason. That’s his only shot at the rotation.

[Dex]

Mamu isn’t a five, and struggles in the position. He can’t displace Collin’s or Bassey. He needs to hope that Barnes really is washed and not going 75% because it was preseason. That’s his only shot at the rotation.

I'd argue Collins isn't really a five either, he just pretends to be one.

But your point is well taken and probably accurate..

[spurs10]

Mamu isn’t a five, and struggles in the position. He can’t displace Collin’s or Bassey. He needs to hope that Barnes really is washed and not going 75% because it was preseason. That’s his only shot at the rotation. If Barnes starts at the 4, who comes off the bench at the 4?

[LeBowen]

If Barnes starts at the 4, who comes off the bench at the 4?

Lineups get staggered.
It's going to be Jeremy, Barnes or Keldon at 4 if Mamu doesn't get minutes.

CP3/Tre
Devin/Castle
Jeremy/Champagnie
Barnes/Keldon
Wemby/Collins

It's going to be between Tre, Champagnie, Branham, Wesley and Mamu for those two final rotation spots.
That's why all off them need to be on their A game in the first two weeks while there are more minutes available before Devin comes back.

[exstatic]

If Barnes starts at the 4, who comes off the bench at the 4?

Keldon

[heyheymymy]

If Barnes starts at the 4, who comes off the bench at the 4?

Maybe Mamu