Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Oct. 28, 2024

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-rockets-grades-2025-game-3/

[Strategic]

Nice work. Looks odd that so many of the guys look like they don’t know what they’re expected to do. Watching this game I didn’t know whether to sit or stand.

[Big Empty]

Wemby shouldnt be hanging out at the 3 point line so much. I know he wants to model his game like Durant, but we’re not using him the way we should. He needs to be on the low block and not shooting 3’s from almost half court. Vassel will be a better closer than keldon when he’s back and in shape

[rankingtear]

Didn't Sochan say they are rebuilding his 3pt shot. His middies looks fine though he was already hitting that toward the end of last season. Not a lot of players can really develop an in between game, KJ and White never did, Sochan and Castle has that potential like DJ even though they are awful shooters.

[Dejounte]

IMO, no coach can remove wemby’s “desires” to play like KD. He’ll eventually see it’s not the most efficient way to win. Nobody wants him to strictly be in the paint is what he needs to realize. He can mix it up from outside here and there, but don’t do it all game, and especially not when you don’t have the lead. His ego is making it look like he has poor bball iq, he’s better than this. But… it’s better to get it out of the way now than later.

sochan is a menace out there. Could have easily had 30 pts if some of those went in.

castle had a blunder of a game where he was faced with good d. Dont come at me atl spur. Fuck off, i dont need to hear your defense of him in every post.

Keldon is a liability for his tunnel vision offense. Seriously could have made a better play if he knew his teammates were around him on a lot of those shots.

[LeBowen]

We'll need more of those CP3 runs this season, he needs to take over and steady the ship whenever we start losing momentum. Especially while Devin is out.
I feel like people will start expecting too much from Champagnie. He's a solid bench shooter, but that's it. It's easy for the opposition to shut him down when he's the only shooter on the floor.
Barnes was completely MIA. We needed him to get a bucket or two during those dry spells, he didn't even try.

As I wrote after the game, Jeremy's inside game looks greatly improved, he's actually bullying players and his footwork looks great.
Jumpshot will take a long time to develop, if it ever does, but we need him to punish every mismatch inside.
I'm actually happy when Wemby's dumb shots don't go in. The only way for him to realize he really shouldn't be chucking some of those.

Castle had a bad game offensively, but a lot of it was on Pop's rotations. What's a rookie point guard with no shot supposed to do while sharing the floor with Wesley and Jeremy? That lineup cost us the most.
Wesley has his moments and I think he's more useful than Branham, but he just can't play when we already have so many non-shooters in the rotation.
Branham looks great when every shot is falling, other than that, not so much.

Keldon and Collins are the difference makers...for the other team. Can't have them be such non-factors, especially Keldon.
Mamu not getting any minutes after a great pre-season is just puzzling, especially with our lack of spacing.

Overall, a decent show of character after a borderline blowout, if they keep playing with this effort level, will surely be a way better season than the last.
And yeah, I think we're better than the Rockets when everyone's healthy.

[tbdog]

That section in the first when Castle and Wesley on the floor was bad. Wemby was doubled before the entry catch. Adams was making Wesley by just ignoring him. This is not going to work. The way the NBA is, 2 pit bull players doesn't translate into easy buckets when the offense has no spacing.

[CGD]

In addition to Sochan, big shout out to Zach. He’s had a great few games all around. Something seems to be clicking for him finally.

[sananspursfan21]

Kind of a weird game where everyone had some good qualities to their game. Nobody got or deserved a flat out F, yet nobody was guiltless either. Because of that, I walked away from the game really conflicted.

The sequence where our guys kept getting those offensive rebounds, yet kept missing gimmes at the rim pretty well sum up the entire game. Excellent hustle, poor shooting execution. Well done and shame on you are in order here :lol

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. They needed Devin’s scoring last night. With Devin, I think they could’ve won. Champ can shoot, play defense, rebound and even had an awesome block. But he cannot manufacture his own shots and not for others. Here’s hoping Devin gets back soon.

Wemby needs to establish himself closer to the rim. He needs to fight more for position. He cannot have somebody like Dillon Brooks bully him off position. Sometimes it’s not just about getting strong, but will to be more aggressive. Wemby is a big target that CP3 can find if he’s there.

Talking about aggressiveness, Sochan displayed his with gusto. This is the Sochan that the fans are waiting for. He’s all over, getting rebounds, playing defense and cutting to the rim with purpose. If he can play like this every night, it would be great.

Castle needed to be more aggressive shooting and scoring at times. And last night against the Rockets’ firepower would’ve helped. Branham, Wesley and Collins were great. I think Keldon could’ve helped with the scoring for the 2nd unit.

The Rockets had so much firepower last night. They have plenty of weapon in that team. And they are just going to get better with Ime. I look forward to the long rivalry!

[DAF86]

Thanks Timvp. They needed Devin’s scoring last night. With Devin, I think they could’ve won. Champ can shoot, play defense, rebound and even had an awesome block. But he cannot manufacture his own shots and not for others. Here’s hoping Devin gets back soon.

Wemby needs to establish himself closer to the rim. He needs to fight more for position. He cannot have somebody like Dillon Brooks bully him off position. Sometimes it’s not just about getting strong, but will to be more aggressive. Wemby is a big target that CP3 can find if he’s there.

Talking about aggressiveness, Sochan displayed his with gusto. This is the Sochan that the fans are waiting for. He’s all over, getting rebounds, playing defense and cutting to the rim with purpose. If he can play like this every night, it would be great.

Castle needed to be more aggressive shooting and scoring at times. And last night against the Rockets’ firepower would’ve helped. Branham, Wesley and Collins were great. I think Keldon could’ve helped with the scoring for the 2nd unit.

The Rockets had so much firepower last night. They have plenty of weapon in that team. And they are just going to get better with Ime. I look forward to the long rivalry!

The Rockets suck ass, they spent all their money in the offseason to go win now and they are still the same mediocre to bad team they have always been. This current Spurs team at full strength might be better than them. If this is how the Spurs look when they decide to go all in, I will be depressed, tbh. :lol

[Strategic]

On one hand I’m happy Vic made it through the 2 rockets games in one piece. Brooks’ history of trying to take out stars is disturbing. He won’t pick on rotation players. Too bad the Spurs don’t have anyone big enough to cover Wemby’s back. I could see Stephen Jackson taking Brooks out.

[onechance87]

Worried about castle 3 point shot.I know its only 3 games,But it looks like hes losing confidence and is trying to
avoid taking them.Was hoping he would make sum here and there,But dont think hes made one yet.

[John B]

The Rockets suck ass, they spent all their money in the offseason to go win now and they are still the same mediocre to bad team they have always been. This current Spurs team at full strength might be better than them. If this is how the Spurs look when they decide to go all in, I will be depressed, tbh. :lol

Nah that’s just hate man. Jalen Green, Sengun, Jabari all can score 20+ points every given night. Brook is a punk but he’s given them attitude and JVV is a calming presence at PG with Reed as a very good understudy. Amen is a sure shot from outside. That team is loaded.

[DAF86]

Nah that’s just hate man. Jalen Green, Sengun, Jabari all can score 20+ points every given night. Brook is a punk but he’s given them attitude and JVV is a calming presence at PG with Reed as a very good understudy. Amen is a sure shot from outside. That team is loaded.

-Sengun is an undersized center that can't defend nor shoot.

-Green is a low IQ chucker that brings nothing to the table when his shot isn't falling.

-and Smith is close to becoming a bust, Rockets fans were asking for him to get benched after the first 3 games of the season.

All of these are extremely flawed players that won't amount to much as a core.

[TDomination]

In the words of Charles Barkley, them midgets need to be punished.
if a small is on Vic, he needs to get as close to the basket as possible, period.

it’s a huge mismatch with a small on Vic and yet he catches the ball against brooks at the top of the key and then shoots a turnaround fadeaway.
That’s low bball iq. Gotta punish the D for putting someone small on you, and that’s only going to happen by establishing position close to the basket

[djohn2oo8]

The Rockets suck ass, they spent all their money in the offseason to go win now and they are still the same mediocre to bad team they have always been. This current Spurs team at full strength might be better than them. If this is how the Spurs look when they decide to go all in, I will be depressed, tbh. :lol
They won’t. Might have 55 losses this year with Paul’s corpse lol

[exstatic]

Nah that’s just hate man. Jalen Green, Sengun, Jabari all can score 20+ points every given night. Brook is a punk but he’s given them attitude and JVV is a calming presence at PG with Reed as a very good understudy. Amen is a sure shot from outside. That team is loaded.

Lolwut? He shot 14% from 3 in 62 games last year.

[LeBowen]

Worried about castle 3 point shot.I know its only 3 games,But it looks like hes losing confidence and is trying to
avoid taking them.Was hoping he would make sum here and there,But dont think hes made one yet.

Imo, the problem is that he's not standing at the line, every time he catches it in a position to take an open shot, he's a couple of feet behind the line and not many players have the range to hit those, let alone bad shooters.
I'm more worried about Pop, we don't want Castle to have a short leash. He made too many mistakes last night, hopefully his role isn't reduced for the upcoming games.

[BacktoBasics]

It seems Wesley as the lift on these drives to dunk the ball but chooses to lay it up. That alone would make a huge difference in his game.

[onechance87]

Imo, the problem is that he's not standing at the line, every time he catches it in a position to take an open shot, he's a couple of feet behind the line and not many players have the range to hit those, let alone bad shooters.
I'm more worried about Pop, we don't want Castle to have a short leash. He made too many mistakes last night, hopefully his role isn't reduced for the upcoming games.

He made forced mistakes cause he cant shoot.He just dribbles and if cant find nobody he will just force it and it just dont end well.Gotta work
on that jumper and work on his handles.

[LeBowen]

He made forced mistakes cause he cant shoot.He just dribbles and if cant find nobody he will just force it and it just dont end well.Gotta work
on that jumper and work on his handles.

It's not like others looked better in that lineup with three non-shooters. Way better players wouldn't have been able to drive inside.
Castle/Wesley/Jeremy/Keldon/Zach, like what the hell is that? If I was the opposing coach I'd tell my players to stay below the FT line.

The first thing he needs to develop is a mid-range jumper. We saw him hit one last night.
In a year he'll be able to bully almost every guard in the league, he'll draw FTs, he just needs a reliable FT line jumper and maybe floater. Similar to how Dejounte developed his scoring game.

[Mugen]

A lot of it is on Wemby but the lack of action (screens/rubs) to get him free'd up heading towards the hoop is nuts. Year 2 of not having a sufficient counter when a much smaller guy is guarding him is a little ridiculous... I know him getting the ball 20ft out with Brooks guarding him isn't the solve tbh.

Castle eventually replacing Keldon in the closing lineup should lead to significantly more wins tbh. I'm sure it'll take the old man 20+ games after it's pretty clear to figure it out but it'll happen eventually.

[onechance87]

It's not like others looked better in that lineup with three non-shooters. Way better players wouldn't have been able to drive inside.
Castle/Wesley/Jeremy/Keldon/Zach, like what the hell is that? If I was the opposing coach I'd tell my players to stay below the FT line.

The first thing he needs to develop is a mid-range jumper. We saw him hit one last night.
In a year he'll be able to bully almost every guard in the league, he'll draw FTs, he just needs a reliable FT line jumper and maybe floater. Similar to how Dejounte developed his scoring game.

yup i agree

[Mugen]

They won’t. Might have 55 losses this year with Paul’s corpse lol

I'll take 55 losses heading into this loaded draft as opposed to another treadmill season the Rockets will have tbh.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I like how this team plays defense. They have really perked up their defensive schemes and execution compared to last year from the small sample size of action so far. But on offense, there is still lot of talent gap and the Spurs' are some steps/ways away from being one of the better modern offenses. While Wemby's positioning and decision making is partly to blame, it is also a product of his trying to do too much from the perimeter. What I dont like are players like Branham who have the ability to play well on offense but even on their better days are capable of lethargy on one or two loose possessions that matter for margins of victory. We can cut some slack for Castle, whose outside game is still work in progress but who is so mature and smooth in other aspects of the game. But Sochan's lack of 3P shooting, Barnes' Richard Jefferson act, CP3's decline due to age and Keldon's wildness on offense -- these are showing up as clear liabilities.

[Mr. Body]

Flip of last game, as the breakdown mentions. Rubber match next week, but it feels like these teams are pretty equal, which is a bit wild. Devin would be a big boost.

Need to figure Vic out on offense. He takes up such a massive amount of space and when his outside shot isn't going, it's not clear how to activate him. Will need more work.

This is the Branham I think we can see. I liked the confidence. I'm telling you guys, he's going to be a weapon. Most importantly he was staying in front of guys and working on D.

Wesley is a good full-court and disruptive defender. He struggles guarding guys one-on-one. He separates too much at times, doesn't read them right, and his size is a problem. Things to work on.

Last game vs. the Rox we made plays, they didn't, this time they made plays, we didn't. But I like the run and development.

[KingKev]

Kind of a weird game where everyone had some good qualities to their game. Nobody got or deserved a flat out F, yet nobody was guiltless either. Because of that, I walked away from the game really conflicted.

The sequence where our guys kept getting those offensive rebounds, yet kept missing gimmes at the rim pretty well sum up the entire game. Excellent hustle, poor shooting execution. Well done and shame on you are in order here :lol

Preach! I saw so many sequences where guys really showed me aspects of their game that were missing last year. We are very far from contention so in the meantime it’s going to be about giving guys leashes and having to pull them back real quick!!!

The talent is burgeoning, defensive end is getting better but scoring ability isn't there. DV will be back soon.

[Seventyniner]

Imo, the problem is that he's not standing at the line, every time he catches it in a position to take an open shot, he's a couple of feet behind the line and not many players have the range to hit those, let alone bad shooters.
I'm more worried about Pop, we don't want Castle to have a short leash. He made too many mistakes last night, hopefully his role isn't reduced for the upcoming games.

I wonder how much of that is getting used to the distance of the NBA three point line. Sure he has had all summer to practice and undoubtedly worked on it even before the draft, but getting that intuition of just how far away from the basket the line is without having to look down at it takes a while to develop.

Is this a common thing with rookies?

[Atl Spur]

IMO, no coach can remove wemby’s “desires” to play like KD. He’ll eventually see it’s not the most efficient way to win. Nobody wants him to strictly be in the paint is what he needs to realize. He can mix it up from outside here and there, but don’t do it all game, and especially not when you don’t have the lead. His ego is making it look like he has poor bball iq, he’s better than this. But… it’s better to get it out of the way now than later.

sochan is a menace out there. Could have easily had 30 pts if some of those went in.

castle had a blunder of a game where he was faced with good d. Dont come at me atl spur. Fuck off, i dont need to hear your defense of him in every post.

Keldon is a liability for his tunnel vision offense. Seriously could have made a better play if he knew his teammates were around him on a lot of those shots.

Damn son, I’m the low hanging fruit / whipping boy on this board? lol No need for me to “ Fuck Off “, he did not have a good game. I will say this though, Pop won’t let him get comfortable in his role….

[rjv]

spurs (specifically Wemby) were doomed with the abysmal three-point shooting. the rockets clogged the paint whenever possible. when they didn't wemby had a cleaner look with the inside the arc opportunities. also, brooks is still too strong for wemby as victor just can't back him up. he is most effective when he catches the ball clean in the post and there is no immediate double, which allows him to get a clean jumper off. he had one of those late which was a thing of beauty. but the play where he had the ball at the top of the key and motioned everyone to clear out was not a good decision. that turned out to be a big play because it blew an opportunity to tie the game.

[Atl Spur]

Castle will start killing teams in the pic & roll, his mid range / driving / post up is good enough right now. He’s gonna be a weapon on both ends because he has a high bbiq and is super competitive ie. Vic and Sochan.

[Atl Spur]

This day and age, the more players on the court who can initiate pic & roll / iso post ups the better. No hiding bad defenders

[spurraider21]

spurs (specifically Wemby) were doomed with the abysmal three-point shooting. the rockets clogged the paint whenever possible. when they didn't wemby had a cleaner look with the inside the arc opportunities. also, brooks is still too strong for wemby as victor just can't back him up. he is most effective when he catches the ball clean in the post and there is no immediate double, which allows him to get a clean jumper off. he had one of those late which was a thing of beauty. but the play where he had the ball at the top of the key and motioned everyone to clear out was not a good decision. that turned out to be a big play because it blew an opportunity to tie the game.
the spurs havent really drafted a plus shooter since they took vassell in 2020 (unless you count wieskamp). its been guys like primo, sochan, branham, wesley, wemby, cissoko, castle, ingram

right now we rely heavily on champagnie for spacing and we kinda lucked into a waiver claim for him

on a team with limited shooting, having a big one in vassell out really makes it difficult to constantly have spacing with their lineups.

[rjv]

the spurs havent really drafted a plus shooter since they took vassell in 2020 (unless you count wieskamp). its been guys like primo, sochan, branham, wesley, wemby, cissoko, castle, ingram

right now we rely heavily on champagnie for spacing and we kinda lucked into a waiver claim for him

on a team with limited shooting, having a big one in vassell out really makes it difficult to constantly have spacing with their lineups.

yup. it's the main reason i have the spurs off to around a 4-6 start; the absence of vassell and having to add in three new players. (and the difficulty of the schedule)

[poopbox]

Sochan an A - when he one of the main culprits of the terrible spacing on this team :lmao

Us having Wemby throw lobs to Sochan. I am sure Ime was grateful we featured this doof so much:lmao

[scott]

Do we think Keldon has ANY value throughout the league right now? Because if he does, we should be looking to trade him.

I like Keldon, He seems like a great dude. He is an emotional spark plug for the team... he just does not fit the roster at all, and has hit his ceiling.

I think even just giving away Keldon for some SRPs and an expiring matching contract would be addition by subtraction, especially when Vassell comes back.

[DPG21920]

The lack of shooting is such a glaring issue unfortunately and again CP looks washed. Really hoping Castle can show something as the year progresses on his 3 ball. We really need him to pan out as a solid enough shooter.

But the guys are playing hard and man its so much better watching them defend this year than last years. Miles ahead.

[rjv]

Do we think Keldon has ANY value throughout the league right now? Because if he does, we should be looking to trade him.

I like Keldon, He seems like a great dude. He is an emotional spark plug for the team... he just does not fit the roster at all, and has hit his ceiling.

I think even just giving away Keldon for some SRPs and an expiring matching contract would be addition by subtraction, especially when Vassell comes back.

yeah, he's very loyal and a great character player but i can's see him as a long-term value fit for this squad.

[Joseph Kony]

Victor was atrocious on offense but found ways to impact the game via rebounding, passing, and some timely blocks. But it was encouraging to see them not get blown out when they fell into a hole and actually fight to get back in the game. Braham showing signs of life. Paul showing he might still be able to put the ball in the hole, though honestly he's looked pretty cooked so far. hopefully he's just ramping up more slowly since he's old. Barnes was fucking invisible, forgot he was even out there most of the night. Collins was surprisingly decent. Keldon looks like he has no role on this team anymore, spurs should trade him asap.

spurs had some decent defensive possessions in the 2nd half but made some really stupid mistakes that cost them the game in the end. seriously why does this team overhelp and give up so many wide open threes after all these years :pctoss

overall not a terrible game from our guys, they probably win if Vic isnt such a big puss on O.

[spurs10]

They came out flat..and that was that.

[timtonymanu]

Reason why I was excited for the potential Lauri trade was just to get rid of Keldon. Keldon is just not a reliable 6th man or for the role he’s playing.

Unfortunately our front office is all about loyalty and doing right by their guys so I expect Keldon to stay for the duration of his contract.

[spurraider21]

Reason why I was excited for the potential Lauri trade was just to get rid of Keldon. Keldon is just not a reliable 6th man or for the role he’s playing.

Unfortunately our front office is all about loyalty and doing right by their guys so I expect Keldon to stay for the duration of his contract.
keldon is in the beginning of year 2 of his 4 deal deal, and in the last 2 seasons of his deal he'd only be earning 17.5m per year. i think its a safe bet he'll be moved, though i dont believe it will be this year.

[baseline bum]

the spurs havent really drafted a plus shooter since they took vassell in 2020 (unless you count wieskamp). its been guys like primo, sochan, branham, wesley, wemby, cissoko, castle, ingram

right now we rely heavily on champagnie for spacing and we kinda lucked into a waiver claim for him

on a team with limited shooting, having a big one in vassell out really makes it difficult to constantly have spacing with their lineups.

Branham was supposed to be a three point shooter when they drafted him. Vassell shot a little more in his sophomore season than Branham in his freshman season (3.5 vs 2.8 3FGA) but they had basically the same percentage.

[Gibbz]

From one of Zollins' biggest haters last season--the dude is balling in his reduced minutes so far.