The SECOND year

[benefactor]

Remember those developmental days? Good times.

[scott]

We have that magical combination of a regressing second-year star, no talent around him, and no coaching to go with it.

[Jordan Jackson]

At the rate these guys are developing the Spurs should be a play-in team in about 10 years.

[Ice009]

At the rate these guys are developing the Spurs should be a play-in team in about 10 years.

Darn, that's umm, looking kinda accurate :(.

[ambchang]

I guess now the youngins finally understand what the admiral went through his entire prime.

[Ice009]

I guess now the youngins finally understand what the admiral went through his entire prime.

I was young, but also didn't have access to watch the games. People on forums such as this told me this years ago and I learned it there. Yep, from what I remember, D-Rob had some shitty rosters that he carried to 50 plus wins. It was amazing, but you can't win anything with those teams in the playoffs, so I guess that is why he always didn't get anywhere as those role players were terrible come playoff time when playing against better teams that took them out of the game. I do remember the Rockets series were Houston were loaded and Hakeem got free reign whereas D-Rob was doubled and tripled, I do remember that, but not many other people other than Spurs fans know.

[ambchang]

I was young, but also didn't have access to watch the games. People on forums such as this told me this years ago and I learned it there. Yep, from what I remember, D-Rob had some shitty rosters that he carried to 50 plus wins. It was amazing, but you can't win anything with those teams in the playoffs, so I guess that is why he always didn't get anywhere as those role players were terrible come playoff time when playing against better teams that took them out of the game. I do remember the Rockets series were Houston were loaded and Hakeem got free reign whereas D-Rob was doubled and tripled, I do remember that, but not many other people other than Spurs fans know.

To be fair to VW, regular season games were much less structured back then and scouting and game prep was no where close to what you have now, where there’s a legion of scouts and video coordinators with the latest tech doing all the work quickly. That was done in the playoffs which is where the admiral struggled mightily. Also the refs swallow the whistle during the playoffs and robinsons go to move was drive and dunk/get hacked.

VW is going through that now in the regular season.

That said, the admiral struggled because his game was so face up/perimeter based. VW is seeing the same. It’s all fine anf good when he’s on fire and raining jumpers like a meteor shower, it’s what happens when his jumpers aren’t falling, what will you do at that point? Right now it’s taking more jumpers at higher degrees of difficulty, which is as stupid as it sounds. To take the next leap VW has to develop a few unstoppable moves. A hook in the low post. A jab step at the high post, turnarounds. I don’t care what it is, but it’s one of those Dirk one footed fade automatic two points that get you flowing in the game again moves.

[Mal]

I would be fine with finishing bottom 5, if Sochan, Castle and Wemby improve. Vassell is already fine, when healthy. I dont care about rest of this roster.

[Ice009]

Good takes both of you guys. I didn't think about the tech these days making it way easier to game plan that back in D-Rob's days. They would have put the effort in for the playoffs, but probably too much hard work to do in the regular season with VHS tapes and less footage to go through.

I guess finishing bottom 5 would maybe be a good thing in the long run to get another really good player, but man, I was hoping the Spurs had a much better season, but looking at this roster, it may not be a good idea to try and win as many games as possible.

One thing really bothering me about Pop is a Youtube video where Tim Legler picked his top 10 players of all-time and didn't put TD in his top 10. Some fans were arguing in the comments, but this one guy kept bringing up the Olympics, saying TD was surrounded by great players on the Spurs and that TD was a poor leader (I rate TD as one of the best leader of all time). This guy wasn't even giving TD credit for being one of the best team defenders of all time either. I was going to actually signup a channel just to comment and to get on this guy about Pop not being the great coach everyone thinks he is. as this guys takes really tweaked me. Surely they can see how exposed he's been after Tim Duncan left? Surely Pop helped TD a little bit, but it was mostly TD IMO that made Pop look better than the other way around.

[DaBears]

I agree about the over talent on this team that surrounds VM. A Starting lineup of non-shooters is terrible ( and if your best shooter is Julian Cham... ) then your in trouble... All the teams we've faced thus far have 3+ actual shooting guards.

[DaBears]

lol... This time at this moment looks worse off than last year.. Not sure what is going on with VM maybe under the weather or something.

[Pauleta14]

I would be fine with finishing bottom 5, if Sochan, Castle and Wemby improve. Vassell is already fine, when healthy. I dont care about rest of this roster.


Vassell isn't only the shooter we badly need but he's also Wemby best connction and the most willing to find him.

He improved massively since the ASG

Bringing Cp3 might end up being a bad idea bc it takes away Wemby's playmaking and movements/flow

[Pauleta14]

lol... This time at this moment looks worse off than last year.. Not sure what is going on with VM maybe under the weather or something.

He's clearly sick but the pb is larger, it seems PATFO didn't anticipate teams would be more agressive towards Vic or exploit our lack of shooting/inability to spread the floor.

[TekXX]

I guess now the youngins finally understand what the admiral went through his entire prime.

Didn't the Spurs put a competitive team around David for most of the 90's? The Spurs don't seem to have a clue now other than collecting a lot of picks.

[J_Paco]

I agree about the over talent on this team that surrounds VM. A Starting lineup of non-shooters is terrible ( and if your best shooter is Julian Cham... ) then your in trouble... All the teams we've faced thus far have 3+ actual shooting guards.



Why do people just parrot the same nonsense over and over.

The starting lineup only has one - two if you include Vic - 'non-shooters' in it. Chris Paul is a career 37% three-point shooter while Harrison Barnes is at 38% for his career. Champagnie is streaky as hell, but shoots them at a career percentage of .370.

None of them are 'non-shooters' but I get this is the new excuse for when Victor struggles like last year's bullshit 'the never get hm the ball' narrative.

And this is nothing like the Admiral cause he came into the league a physical specimen with a 'ready made' game. Victor is a still a work-in-progress both physically and on offense.

[Chinook]

I actually did see last night as progress. I guess we'll see if they can maintain that progress against a much worse team tonight or if they'll regress again.

[ambchang]

Didn't the Spurs put a competitive team around David for most of the 90's? The Spurs don't seem to have a clue now other than collecting a lot of picks.

No. That roster was trash. Robinsons best team was his rookie season, the other teams were heavily flawed. I loved Sean and he was the only player who could somewhat create on offence outside of the admiral.

Once Strickland was gone, Cummings got hurt the entire thing collapsed. Avery Johnson and Vinny del negro were starting. People want to complain about Branham and Wesley? At least they were just backups playing spot minutes. Tre jones is like freaking curry Allen and Thompson all rolled into one compared the the little general. Dennis rodman didn’t give a shit, dal Ellis and chuck person were injured and way over their primes, Antoine Carr tried. Saviour like sweet pea Lloyd Daniels? Negele knight getting meaningful minutes? That shit was embarrassing.

The year robinson got hurt (Sean and Avery did as well) the spurs had to roll out the corpse of Nique and they won 21 games. The roster was that bad.

[Chomag]

This team is not being coached at all... at least not for basketball


Also this team needs major work , I can't believe there are still people here saying they don't think this whole team doesn't need major overall, and I don't even think another lotto Pick or 2 can save that unless you are talking another 4 or 5 years of trying to develop pick in hopes that they turn out becoming anything.

[z0sa]

This team is not being coached at all... at least not for basketball


Also this team needs major work , I can't believe there are still people here saying they don't think this whole team doesn't need major overall, and I don't even think another lotto Pick or 2 can save that unless you are talking another 4 or 5 years of trying to develop pick in hopes that they turn out becoming anything.

100%

I don't understand how people can see these 3rd year guys, or Castle's shot in college, and think that we were okay to roll this team out with any hopes of competing nightly. We suck primarily because we can't spread the floor. The best teams in the league make it rain from 3 erry day. This team is lucky to have any guy on a given night hit more than 1-2 3's.

[LeBowen]

100%

I don't understand how people can see these 3rd year guys, or Castle's shot in college, and think that we were okay to roll this team out with any hopes of competing nightly. We suck primarily because we can't spread the floor. The best teams in the league make it rain from 3 erry day. This team is lucky to have any guy on a given night hit more than 1-2 3's.

What does competing mean? I personally didn't think we can get close to .500, but I at least expected a functional rotation and system.
Wemby was a top10 player in the league post all-star break and a top3 defender at worst.
Devin was a consistent 20ppg scorer.
Jeremy was the question mark, but he's been the biggest positive in these 4 games, despite not fixing his shot.

We added two veterans that are a great fit with the starting lineup and most importantly are supposed to steady the ship and get the team back on track when things start falling apart.
What do we get instead? Pop still didn't get over himself and is trying to re-invent the basics of basketball.

Can't remember if it was the first or second game against the Rockets, maybe even the opener against the Mavs, but we had a situation where CP3 was on the floor and what happened?
Two turnovers in consecutive possessions because Champagnie and Sochan couldn't bring the ball up against full court pressure.
Why the fuck would Sochan or especially Champagnie even be in consideration to bring the ball up if CP3 is on the floor?

Most of our players are severely limited, but they can look way better if put into limited roles that suit them. Instead, Pop is trying to develop everyone into a pure, all-round basketball player, which will never happen.
Bench is pretty bad, one of the worst in the league. But Pop is certainly doing it no favors with those idiotic lineups that have 3 non-shooters.

Mamu had a great pre-season, other than Barnes he was the only wing/big who looked like a somewhat reliable shooter, what happens next? He doesn't get a single relevant minute because Pop plays Castle/Sochan/Wesley together.
In 3/4 games we fell behind because of that specific lineup at the end of first quarter.

Spacing is obviously bad, but if our coach can't generate 10 easy points per game for our 7'4 center with CP3 on the floor, then what are we talking about?

[RC_Drunkford]

100%

I don't understand how people can see these 3rd year guys, or Castle's shot in college, and think that we were okay to roll this team out with any hopes of competing nightly. We suck primarily because we can't spread the floor. The best teams in the league make it rain from 3 erry day. This team is lucky to have any guy on a given night hit more than 1-2 3's.

the supposed GOAT coach begs to differ

[z0sa]

What does competing mean? I personally didn't think we can get close to .500, but I at least expected a functional rotation and system.
Wemby was a top10 player in the league post all-star break and a top3 defender at worst.
Devin was a consistent 20ppg scorer.
Jeremy was the question mark, but he's been the biggest positive in these 4 games, despite not fixing his shot.

We added two veterans that are a great fit with the starting lineup and most importantly are supposed to steady the ship and get the team back on track when things start falling apart.
What do we get instead? Pop still didn't get over himself and is trying to re-invent the basics of basketball.

Can't remember if it was the first or second game against the Rockets, maybe even the opener against the Mavs, but we had a situation where CP3 was on the floor and what happened?
Two turnovers in consecutive possessions because Champagnie and Sochan couldn't bring the ball up against full court pressure.
Why the fuck would Sochan or especially Champagnie even be in consideration to bring the ball up if CP3 is on the floor?

Most of our players are severely limited, but they can look way better if put into limited roles that suit them. Instead, Pop is trying to develop everyone into a pure, all-round basketball player, which will never happen.
Bench is pretty bad, one of the worst in the league. But Pop is certainly doing it no favors with those idiotic lineups that have 3 non-shooters.

Mamu had a great pre-season, other than Barnes he was the only wing/big who looked like a somewhat reliable shooter, what happens next? He doesn't get a single relevant minute because Pop plays Castle/Sochan/Wesley together.
In 3/4 games we fell behind because of that specific lineup at the end of first quarter.

Spacing is obviously bad, but if our coach can't generate 10 easy points per game for our 7'4 center with CP3 on the floor, then what are we talking about?

Yeah, it's more problems being revealed rather than more problems being solved at this point.

CP3 for example, I think, is so old and washed that he's specifically requesting others take on the back-court ball pressure, which basically defeats the purpose of him starting and being here. We don't want Champ or even Sochan initiating - we already saw the results of that experiment.

Likewise, a guy like Barnes is a glue guy who can give you 15 any given night but isn't in there to be the focal point of the offense, basically ever. He's meant to be a ball reversal guy who either makes an excellent pass or is open for a shot. He's found himself going 1 on 1 in the half-court probably more than he has in years, and we're only 4 games in.

Devin Vassell? Man, I hate to say it, but one knows the Spurs are in oh shit territory when we're anxiously awaiting his return. Not that he's bad, far from it. Just that it's pretty insane to think he's made some kind of jump and/or is going to be ready to go after basically taking the off-season, well, off. He's also injury prone, clearly, so there's no guarantee he's even around when we need him most, regular or (God forbid) post-season.

Sochan has been doing well, but it's not because his role has extended or he's really improved. He's just playing the role we all (or most of us) have been calling for him to play for literally years now. His shooting continues to be not just unreliable, but truly bad.

Castle is another guy who has a great skillset - but indeed, like you said, his role needs to be limited to what he does best, which right now is play D and drive the ball. Sitting around the 3 point line bricking shots isn't - or shouldn't - be what we drafted him for.

It's just poor roster construction, and the "only way out is through" argument is quickly burning up what's left of our rope. Sure, Wemby will be here for years unless he's so totally over it and/or doesn't GAF about supermax money that he bails, which I'd put around a 1-2% chance. Yet, here we are with Wemby not even SHOOTING in the second half against his biggest (personal) rival. That points directly to NOT competing being a problem. These men are professionals. Why isn't Pop doing something, you know? Anything to light a fire under some asses - like his job depended on it.

I mean, we just extended Wesley and Branham til the 2026 offseason, for instance. What the fuck did either of them do to deserve an extension? I've tried to be high on Wesley, but when I saw Adams guarding him and he did NOTHING to punish it, I lost all faith he's an NBA player. You can't just be an (on paper) great defender (potentially). You've got to play both sides and have some kind of groove to oppose such mismatches. It's just outrageous at this point. I'm a super-homer and I'll be continuing to watch, but as for discussion, it's basically at an end for me. There's no turning this roster around unless there's some accountability or our players show some solid improvement - and quickly. People might want to act like there's time, but there's really not, not if we want to contend in Pop's window (I'm not saying this facetiously, just trying to be optimistic - and if Pop didn't plan on contending in the next 5 years, he truly is a greedy old bastard).

[scott]

The good news is we get to watch Lauri light our asses up tonight :lol