Victor and the 3 pts

[Brazil]

I think this topic deserves its own thread, this will be a point of discussion for many years especially after last Pop answer to the question "you want Victor take that many 3s ?" answer: "absolutely"

Not that one could imagine Victor shooting 3s like a mofo against Pop will but this quote clarifies once and for all any doubts about it. It is clear that Victor does not see himself as a traditional big, he aims to be an elite player on both end of the floor and on offense he will use the 3s as a primary weapon and that vision is totally accepted and encouraged by Pop.


I believe he has a point, in today's NBA if you want to win it all, you have to be elite at shooting 3s (see Boston last year, Warriors...) and all recent and past MVP candidates shoot the 3s.

- Jokic with 3 3PA (he is at 5 3PA this season so far) at .35 first year .33
- Luka with 10 3PA at .35 first year .33
- Lebron with 5 3PA (carreer high at 8) at .35 first year .29
- Tatum with 7 3PA at .37 first year .43
- KD with 5 3PA at .39 first year .29
- SGA with 3,5 3PA (5 3PA this season) at .35 first year .37
- Curry with 9 3PA at .42 first year .43

- Victor with 5,5 3PA at .32 and an abmyssal .19 this year so far

I certainly forgot dudes but you get my point. Now you can argue that high volume 3 pts shooter is 5 3PA or above so Jokic and SGA does not enter in this category, fair but in Victor mind he won't achieve what he is aiming without an healthy amount of 3s (how many, thats the debate).

In terms of attempt he is on par with Lebron and KD, he shot better than both in their first season and is on par with Jokic first season (much less attempts) and Luka in %.

Can Victor become an elite 3 pts shooter ? Well he may not be as good as Curry, Tatum and other specialists but nothing seems to prevent him from being as good as most of curent and past MVP candidates in that regard. .32 seems bad but if you put it in a more global context it is quite solid for a 19 y/o who gives effort on both end of the floor.


You can now argue about the method to get there, shooting from the logo, in transition with plenty of time on the shot clock, off balance, on one leg.... but his shooting mechanic is pretty good, with his size most of his attempts are not really contested and I guess if he can convert some of the most difficult ones, the easiest will be a piece of cake. Nevertheless he may try to get inspired by Lebron. In 21 22 he was shooting a high 7 to 8 3s per game at .32 / .35 not great obviously, he decided to adjust his shooting mechanic after 22/23 season, reduced his attempts per game cutting off the most contested ones and in 24 he converted at .41 clip which is elite even for Curry. He may just do that in the long run but this is not the way he has chosen so far.

[spurraider21]

I mean the concept is clear. If he becomes proficient at them, there’s no meaningful way for the defense to take it away. He’s going to get open looks his whole career.

but i don’t see the need for him to be shooting with THIS volume NOW. Go shoot a hundred of them in practice, in shootaround, until you improve enough to unleash more in game

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think it’s been quite obvious since last season that they’re letting him work on everything and the volume three point shooting is a part of what they envision for his future. The team can afford it because they’re not quite good enough to contend yet so let him find out exactly what he wants to be.

It has been suggested that they also don’t care about efficiency right now, it’s more important for Wemby to find the right spots and moments to launch his threes. Last season’s numbers were weird in the sense that he shot better off the dribble than in spot ups. They need to figure out which shot is a good one within the offensive flow and which isn’t. They can take their time with it and they’re doing exactly that.

Now, a 7’5 player who’s a volume 3 point shooter on decent efficiency would be impossible to stop and would open up the court for him and his teammates. Right now the offense and spacing are horrible, even with Paul, so they need to figure out counters for opposing team defensive coverages against Wemby. OKC walled him path to the rim, Utah decided to put a traditional big on him and I suppose it was almost by design that he’d go and shoot a ton from the get go.

Once the spacing gets better they might explore other things but for the time being it’s totally fine letting him shoot 10+ threes a game.

[slick'81]

Wemby can do whatever the f he wants until san Antonio puts a competitive team around him

[Spurs Homer]

Im already sick of posting this....

relax spurs fans.

Wemby is a threat from anywhere on the court and by allowing him to do as he pleases he will develop into...
a long distance threat
a mid level threat
a low post threat

the absolute best defender to boot.

Unless, you are on the side of the opponents who want nothing more than to stifle wembys development and turn wemby into a one dimensional threat who can be triple teamed and forced out of basket area.

Open your mind and accept that wemby knows what he is doing and unbelievably Pop is not scared and nervous about it!

[BacktoBasics]

They want to play him like a wing. The shooting doesn’t bother me. The problem will be turnovers because he’s tall and his dribble is too high. These guys are getting their hands in and defending him without much of a problem.

I prefer Wemby around the elbow.

[Leetonidas]

He has really good form and it's not like his misses are awful. It sounds like Pop is fine with him chucking so all we can do is hope he starts making them at a respectable clip eventually and I suppose the best way to do that is to get reps in during games

Still wish he'd stop being so adverse to maximizing his greatest advantage

[Spurs Homer]

He has really good form and it's not like his misses are awful. It sounds like Pop is fine with him chucking so all we can do is hope he starts making them at a respectable clip eventually and I suppose the best way to do that is to get reps in during games

Still wish he'd stop being so adverse to maximizing his greatest advantage

Did you ever stop to think that by shooting from anywhere- that is exactly what he is doing?

If you only shoot from the easiest place- you are also making defenses comfortable by only worrying about a limited range, but by shooting from anywhere and where no one in the league can block your shot from anywhere on the court -

now defenders are comfortable nowhere on the court.

[Mugen]

I'm not overly concerned with his 3pt attempts this season given the roster construction and the quality of the '25 draft :lol

I'm mostly concerned about the bad habits he's building chucking from the logo, chucking as his first look, etc. He'll never be a good enough shooter where his 3 should be his primary weapon tbh. If it develops, it'll be a nice counter. But he needs to develop his game from 15 feet in, otherwise a lot of the advantages he has with his height are essentially negated tbh.

[Kuvai]

Last night he took more threes in 1st half when entire team starting with Sochen weren’t passing the ball and simply doing what ever they want. I felt like he protested by just doing the same way entire team is playing low BBIQ.


In 2nd half every one played better with good team work.

[Leetonidas]

Did you ever stop to think that by shooting from anywhere- that is exactly what he is doing?

If you only shoot from the easiest place- you are also making defenses comfortable by only worrying about a limited range, but by shooting from anywhere and where no one in the league can block your shot from anywhere on the court -

now defenders are comfortable nowhere on the court.

Seems like they're pretty content to let him chuck 30 footers all night rather than playing inside the three point line. Until he becomes a good shooter he is bailing out the defense, period

And obviously I thought about it considering I said it in the post you're quoting:lol

[rankingtear]

Playoffs is too perimeter oriented that is why the coaching staff is letting him be a guard/wing on offense most of the time.

[Mr. Body]

Last night he took more threes in 1st half when entire team starting with Sochen weren’t passing the ball and simply doing what ever they want. I felt like he protested by just doing the same way entire team is playing low BBIQ.


In 2nd half every one played better with good team work.

Opposite. Everyone else was doing what they could to activate the offense when Vic was just jacking shots.

Vic can get his three anytime he wants. Shooting them in every single possession to start a game is a problem. It fails to establish any team rhythm, lets the defense off the hook, and is feast or famine. If they don't fall -- and by nature they often don't -- then you're already two digits down.

[Spurs Homer]

Seems like they're pretty content to let him chuck 30 footers all night rather than playing inside the three point line. Until he becomes a good shooter he is bailing out the defense, period

And obviously I thought about it considering I said it in the post you're quoting:lol

Really?

How many of his shots were blocked?

hmmm

sounds like the defense was not bailed out too much...so just give him time and he will improve his already good-looking shot.

[z0sa]

Eh, it is what it is. If he hits one more thats .384 for the game. If someone shoots .384 from 3 you let them shoot it when they're wide open. I get it's hypothetical but only barely.

Just keep shooting them. It's become clear to me that Wemby, at least for the time being, is not going to go the Wilt or Kareem route and is instead following his KD dream. I'll be happy to be along for the ride, whether it works out and he's scoring 30+ from the perimeter most nights, or if he decides to take it inside if that doesn't work for him.

[exstatic]

Really?

How many of his shots were blocked?

hmmm

sounds like the defense was not bailed out too much...so just give him time and he will improve his already good-looking shot.

Sean has a saying: a bad shot is better than a turnover. He was turning the ball over way too much in the previous three games.

[NASpurs]

Really?

How many of his shots were blocked?

hmmm

sounds like the defense was not bailed out too much...so just give him time and he will improve his already good-looking shot.

You're bailing them out because you're inefficient. It's not a hard concept to grasp. It's why Sochan and Collins are left open to shoot 3s as well. It's what the defense wants you to do and you're playing into their hands

[Leetonidas]

Really?

How many of his shots were blocked?

hmmm

sounds like the defense was not bailed out too much...so just give him time and he will improve his already good-looking shot.

His shots are never going to get blocked because he's so tall. That doesn't mean it's a good shot :lol and considering he shot 30% on 13 attempts I'd say he bailed the defense out plenty

[exstatic]

Eh, it is what it is. If he hits one more thats .384 for the game. If someone shoots .384 from 3 you let them shoot it when they're wide open. I get it's hypothetical but only barely.

Just keep shooting them. It's become clear to me that Wemby, at least for the time being, is not going to go the Wilt or Kareem route and is instead following his KD dream. I'll be happy to be along for the ride, whether it works out and he's scoring 30+ from the perimeter most nights, or if he decides to take it inside if that doesn't work for him.

If he’s facing the basket, and they triple him, he can see the two players unguarded. Train them to cut to the basket, and it’s an easy two points off the pass.

[Spurs Homer]

You're bailing them out because you're inefficient. It's not a hard concept to grasp. It's why Sochan and Collins are left open to shoot 3s as well. It's what the defense wants you to do and you're playing into their hands

He had a monster game...what game were you watching?

He wont continue to miss...his legs are just beginning to get back to game shape...he is thinking way beyond your comfort zone/imagination -

why so scared?

[Leetonidas]

Besides I don't think any of us mind him shooting threes but it's the volume he's shooting them at and the type of threes he's shooting. He shouldnt be taking multiple logo 3s every night. There is only one player in the league and probably ever that a logo 3 is a "good" shot and that's Steph Curry

[NASpurs]

He had a monster game...what game were you watching?

He wont continue to miss...his legs are just beginning to get back to game shape...he is thinking way beyond your comfort zone/imagination -

why so scared?

He's not Steph brah. Sorry to break it to you. He'll miss and that's when he has to figure out what else to do besides chucking 10 3s a game.

[Spurs Homer]

He's not Steph brah. Sorry to break it to you. He'll miss and that's when he has to figure out what else to do besides chucking 10 3s a game.

try to get this in your limited imagination:

he will be better than steph and he wont be limited by being 6'2''

he will shoot from the logo and make them most of the time and no one will ever block those shots and they will demoralize a team even more than when steph demoralizes a team because he will then go near the basket and dominate there also

but YOU will still be scurred that his shooting is making YOU uncomfortable

[NASpurs]

Besides I don't think any of us mind him shooting threes but it's the volume he's shooting them at and the type of threes he's shooting. He shouldnt be taking multiple logo 3s every night. There is only one player in the league and probably ever that a logo 3 is a "good" shot and that's Steph Curry

Yeah definitely the quality of those threes is important. If he hits a couple of 3s and decides to throw a couple of heat checkers from the logo, no one would bat an eyelash. If you're 0-5 and chucking logo threes... that's some Jordan Poole shit

[z0sa]

If he’s facing the basket, and they triple him, he can see the two players unguarded. Train them to cut to the basket, and it’s an easy two points off the pass.

Exactly - agreed 100%. The further outside and medial your comfort zone is, the weaker double/triple/quadruple teams become and the stronger cutting and hitting open shots is. These guys need to be constantly moving when he gets the ball high. I thought we did a decent job of it last night, just don't have much talent on the roster to take advantage of such situations.

If only our guys could hit some open shots and weren't afraid to take it strong into the paint repeatedly, we'd be a play-in team. Of course, that's wishcasting at this point but the concept remains true.

[Mugen]

Him working out with Jamal Crawford should have been a bigger red flag tbh :lol

[Leetonidas]

So victor will eventually be shooting logo 3s at over 50% ? :lmao :lmao now THAT is a laughable take

[Leetonidas]

Him working out with Jamal Crawford should have been a bigger red flag tbh :lol

Still waiting to see results from that tbh. Because all I've seen thus far is Wemby constantly fumbling the ball or getting stripped and turning it over

[NASpurs]

try to get this in your limited imagination:

he will be better than steph and he wont be limited by being 6'2''

he will shoot from the logo and make them most of the time and no one will ever block those shots and they will demoralize a team even more than when steph demoralizes a team because he will then go near the basket and dominate there also

but YOU will still be scurred that his shooting is making YOU uncomfortable

:lol I should've known from the screen name you would've had reddit takes

[exstatic]

He's not Steph brah. Sorry to break it to you. He'll miss and that's when he has to figure out what else to do besides chucking 10 3s a game.

Taking 3s, even at this %, is better than posting up, being triple teamed, and getting stripped 6-8 times in a game.

[NASpurs]

Taking 3s, even at this %, is better than posting up, being triple teamed, and getting stripped 6-8 times in a game.

Then it sounds like he's not being put in position to succeed from the post if he can't pass out from a triple team.

[exstatic]

So victor will eventually be shooting logo 3s at over 50% ? :lmao :lmao now THAT is a laughable take

He doesn’t have to. Making 34-35% will open up a lot of dunking lanes for him, and also passing angles as they have to actually come out on him, even 8 feet beyond the arc.

[exstatic]

Then it sounds like he's not being put in position to succeed from the post if he can't pass out from a triple team.

It’s MUCH tougher to pass out of the post than to pass INTO the lane area and hit cutters while facing up.

Tim was an AWFUL post passer until year three or so, and that would have been at 24-25. Victor is 20.

[Leetonidas]

He doesn’t have to. Making 34-35% will open up a lot of dunking lanes for him, and also passing angles as they have to actually come out on him, even 8 feet beyond the arc.

Duh. But that's not what SH said. He literally said Victor will be better than Steph Curry and will make most of his logo threes. The term most obviously implies over 50%

[exstatic]

Duh. But that's not what SH said. He literally said Victor will be better than Steph Curry and will make most of his logo threes. The term most obviously implies over 50%

So, I’m agreeing with you, and you give me a duh?

[NASpurs]

It’s MUCH tougher to pass out of the post than to pass INTO the lane area and hit cutters while facing up.

He has access to Tim right? Ask TD how he did it.

[Leetonidas]

So, I’m agreeing with you, and you give me a duh?

Well yeah, because it's obvious that shooting 34-35% is much more realistic compared to what SH is claiming. sorry if that sounded crass, wasn't intended

[exstatic]

He has access to Tim right? Ask TD how he did it.

I edited that post, but Tim, while he knows now, hadn’t a clue until like year three. He was 24-25. Victor is20.

[Spurs Homer]

:lol I should've known from the screen name you would've had reddit takes

ok genius...
keep being scared and keep trying to turn a unicorn with unlimited talent...
into a one dimensional tall guy who sits under the basket

im going to enjoy having the unicorn do things no one has ever seen yet...

it reminds me of the years living in los angeles and hear people whining that the fucking weather is always perfect- it never rains, it doesnt get cold "i miss having cold weather at christmas" " i wish it would snow"

ok

im hoping wemby jacks up 20-40 threes a game lol

[Kuvai]

Opposite. Everyone else was doing what they could to activate the offense when Vic was just jacking shots.

Vic can get his three anytime he wants. Shooting them in every single possession to start a game is a problem. It fails to establish any team rhythm, lets the defense off the hook, and is feast or famine. If they don't fall -- and by nature they often don't -- then you're already two digits down.

that’s in the 2nd quarter

for 1st 8-9 minutes Vic was passing the ball and playing team ball which no one cared.o

[spurraider21]

So victor will eventually be shooting logo 3s at over 50% ? :lmao :lmao now THAT is a laughable take
arguably with his height and release point, his ideal shooting spot when accounting for trajectory would probably be from farther back than anybody else. but logo shit is probably not it :lol

[Russ]

Exactly - agreed 100%. The further outside and medial your comfort zone is, the weaker double/triple/quadruple teams become and the stronger cutting and hitting open shots is. These guys need to be constantly moving when he gets the ball high. I thought we did a decent job of it last night, just don't have much talent on the roster to take advantage of such situations.

If only our guys could hit some open shots and weren't afraid to take it strong into the paint repeatedly, we'd be a play-in team. Of course, that's wishcasting at this point but the concept remains true.

The problem is they won't triple team him when he's outside the arc. They'll let him have that shot and collapse in.

He'll be trying to pass to four guys being defended by five guys. No amount of cutting will make that efficient.

[exstatic]

The problem is they won't triple team him when he's outside the arc. They'll let him have that shot and collapse in.

He'll be trying to pass to four guys being defended by five guys. No amount of cutting will make that efficient.

Then if not tripled, he needs one dribble inside the arc, probably a crossover, and he can step from there into a dunk. Getting space, and one defender will never be a bad thing. If they slide another defender or two over when he puts the ball the floor he can pass at that point. He’s shown an ability to pass on the move.

[MannyIsGod]

The name of this thread should be opportunity cost. Victor can be right around break even percentagewise on 3s and shoot 8 a game, OR, he can shoot enough 3s to make it a legit threat and then develop much more efficient shooting opportunities closer to the bucket. Shooting a high volume as a starting place is an atrocious development strategy and its why you never see anyone do it. Even in today's NBA. Not only that, but not all 3s are the same. Logo pullup 3s are not the same as a catch and shoot at the line wide open and in rhythm. How many of Wemby's 3s come off the dribble? It's just not good the way he's being coached right now. It's backwards and I have no idea what Pop is doing.

[Brazil]

I mean the concept is clear. If he becomes proficient at them, there’s no meaningful way for the defense to take it away. He’s going to get open looks his whole career.

but i don’t see the need for him to be shooting with THIS volume NOW. Go shoot a hundred of them in practice, in shootaround, until you improve enough to unleash more in game

I don't mind him shooting this volume now tbh... training is one thing, game is entirely another. As it seems Spurs are considering beginning of the season as a training camp so let if fly I guess, they will probably tight things up later in the season like last year.
The Pop answer indicates clearly that, you go there and shoot not even mentionning the need to clean up the contested, unbalanced, logo ones... mind blowing for a professional organization that get used to analytics and obssessive optimization of everything. It seems like Spurs have discovered an inovation like was google, don't know yet how to use it or how to make money out of it but decided to launch it on the market and figure out the business model later.

As said by another Spurs, last night what I disliked was having all those attempts at the very beginning of the game not letting the team getting in the flow of the offense;

[exstatic]

The name of this thread should be opportunity cost. Victor can be right around break even percentagewise on 3s and shoot 8 a game, OR, he can shoot enough 3s to make it a legit threat and then develop much more efficient shooting opportunities closer to the bucket. Shooting a high volume as a starting place is an atrocious development strategy and its why you never see anyone do it. Even in today's NBA. Not only that, but not all 3s are the same. Logo pullup 3s are not the same as a catch and shoot at the line wide open and in rhythm. How many of Wemby's 3s come off the dribble? It's just not good the way he's being coached right now. It's backwards and I have no idea what Pop is doing.

He shot a better percentage last year on step backs than he did on C&S 3s. Counter intuitive, but true. As someone else pointed out, at 7’4”, his ideal trajectory would come from further out.

[Russ]

Then if not tripled, he needs one dribble inside the arc, probably a crossover, and he can step from there into a dunk. Getting space, and one defender will never be a bad thing. If they slide another defender or two over when he puts the ball the floor he can pass at that point. He’s shown an ability to pass on the move.

You're right. But it assumes he'll actually exploit that opening rather than just shoot the wide open three.

[Brazil]

that’s in the 2nd quarter

for 1st 8-9 minutes Vic was passing the ball and playing team ball which no one cared.o

he shot 2 3s on first 2 possessions tbh

[baseline bum]

The name of this thread should be opportunity cost. Victor can be right around break even percentagewise on 3s and shoot 8 a game, OR, he can shoot enough 3s to make it a legit threat and then develop much more efficient shooting opportunities closer to the bucket. Shooting a high volume as a starting place is an atrocious development strategy and its why you never see anyone do it. Even in today's NBA. Not only that, but not all 3s are the same. Logo pullup 3s are not the same as a catch and shoot at the line wide open and in rhythm. How many of Wemby's 3s come off the dribble? It's just not good the way he's being coached right now. It's backwards and I have no idea what Pop is doing.

Honestly I'd rather have him shooting logo threes than constant catch and shoot ones. He's elite shooting threes off the dribble in transition. Not far behind guys like Doncic and Harden, shooting 37.5% on pull up threes last year. What drives me nuts is seeing Victor always going to the three point line in the halfcourt where he is an awful catch and shoot shooter. Last year he shot 28.3% on catch and shoot threes. Top 1/3 of the league in pull up threes, bottom third or quarter of the league in catch and shoot threes.

[John B]

I commented on this in the game thread. It was horrendous to watch him hurl 13 3pt attempts. But, I see the rational. If he’s open, take the shot. And at 7’3” he will be open his whole career. And he’s capable and has great form. If he can get close to Curry, Tatum, Dame percentage, Wemby would be unstoppable. We all know that Wemby is an anomaly, someone we’ve never seen before. So Pop and his trainers are in the same boat. It will be up to them to strategize and maximize Wemby’s skills and how they will translate to W’s. It’s a growing pain but very exciting to envision the final product.

[TDomination]

I'm on the side that he takes too many 3's. If he's open and shoots after a drive and dish or passes around the perimeter thats fine. But sometimes he just dribbles up and pulls the trigger. At that point he is simply settling. He can get a 3 whenever, don't just pull up and shoot a 3 with 20 sec left on the shot clock.

And its also an inefficient shot when he has a PG or SG guarding him. You take him down low, force them to double you and then you can pass it out to someone open. Or you simply go to work down low against the PG/SG and score at will over him.

[CorrectCrusader]

Victor should be shooting 10 threes a game till he gets to at least 36%

[exstatic]

I commented on this in the game thread. It was horrendous to watch him hurl 13 3pt attempts. But, I see the rational. If he’s open, take the shot. And at 7’3” he will be open his whole career. And he’s capable and has great form. If he can get close to Curry, Tatum, Dame percentage, Wemby would be unstoppable. We all know that Wemby is an anomaly, someone we’ve never seen before. So Pop and his trainers are in the same boat. It will be up to them to strategize and maximize Wemby’s skills and how they will translate to W’s. It’s a growing pain but very exciting to envision the final product.

I think at even 35%, he’d be lethal, because they’d HAVE to come out beyond the arc and at least show on defense. Once that happens, it unlocks the one dribble/three steps dunk from the 3 point line.

[Chinook]

Not all threes are created equal. Wemby's off-dribble threes are there mainly to help his growth as a star. As said by others, if he's able to hit those at a high rate, defenses basically have no meaningful way to guard him outside of fouling. You simply could not let him have a clean catch. However, unless the Spurs' plan is the get Wemby to be a star and then start trying to build a whole new team around him, they should be trying to build something more cohesive. Like a functional offense is great for Wemby, but it's also necessary for Castle, Vassell, Sochan and the guys coming up in the draft. You don't want Wemby being this great iso player and then the rest of the roster being stunted, if only because then you really do create situations where Wemby is triple-teamed.

So Wemby perfecting set threes seems like a more worthy short-term goal. In a world where Wemby is guarded by centers, him being able to pull that center out of the paint would be really helpful to creating space for others. Victor becoming a more consistent pick-and-pop/pick-and-fade threat is also a worthy goal for building up the his perimeter co-stars.

I've never really hated the threes, especially early in the game, so long as everything else is there. I am more annoyed with them when they come in crunch time, especially if Wemby isn't hot. But it's a bit concerning that he seems to shoot better off the dribble than on catch-and-shoot. Spotting up is an essential NBA skill, even for stars.

[exstatic]

I'm on the side that he takes too many 3's. If he's open and shoots after a drive and dish or passes around the perimeter thats fine. But sometimes he just dribbles up and pulls the trigger. At that point he is simply settling. He can get a 3 whenever, don't just pull up and shoot a 3 with 20 sec left on the shot clock.

And its also an inefficient shot when he has a PG or SG guarding him. You take him down low, force them to double you and then you can pass it out to someone open. Or you simply go to work down low against the PG/SG and score at will over him.

As bb pointed out earlier, he shot 37% on pull-ups last year, and 27% on catch and shoot oppos. At this point, you WANT him dribbling into one.

[Brazil]

I think at even 35%, he’d be lethal, because they’d HAVE to come out beyond the arc and at least show on defense. Once that happens, it unlocks the one dribble/three steps dunk from the 3 point line.

Yes .35 is good enough, thats what Jokic is shooting for his carreer on 3 3PA per game and it opens a lot for him and his teammates, he would not be the same passer without this constant threat. Jokic is what wemby could come close on offense but also with an elite defense, the near perfect package. One thing is being on both end ala prime Kawhi is extremely demanding in terms of stamina and Victor still lacks on that regard.

[Arcadian]

I'm fine with him shooting 3s fairly liberally. I just don't think it should be the primary weapon in his bag. He has too many weapons to put so much emphasis on that one.

Plus, I believe the traditional logic of "if you're a big man, shooting too much from distance is wasting your main physical advantage" is still fundamentally true. As easy as shooting 3s may be for him, you know what's even easier? Scoring close to the basket. So quite simply, he will score more total points if he attempts more shots around the basket.

If anyone can refute this, I'd love to hear it.

[Brazil]

In a world where Wemby is guarded by centers, him being able to pull that center out of the paint would be really helpful to creating space for others. Victor becoming a more consistent pick-and-pop/pick-and-fade threat is also a worthy goal for building up the his perimeter co-stars.



thats some of the bread and butter of Jokic tbh... a great example of what Victor should aim for, he has the court vision and passing skills for that imho fwiw (:lol)

[Pauleta14]

Pop also had this answer as a "Fuck you" to not give any weapon to the media to create a polemic imo

Pretty sure he ripped Wemby a 2nd one in the lockeroom

[RC_Drunkford]

The name of this thread should be opportunity cost. Victor can be right around break even percentagewise on 3s and shoot 8 a game, OR, he can shoot enough 3s to make it a legit threat and then develop much more efficient shooting opportunities closer to the bucket. Shooting a high volume as a starting place is an atrocious development strategy and its why you never see anyone do it. Even in today's NBA. Not only that, but not all 3s are the same. Logo pullup 3s are not the same as a catch and shoot at the line wide open and in rhythm. How many of Wemby's 3s come off the dribble? It's just not good the way he's being coached right now. It's backwards and I have no idea what Pop is doing.

statistically he shot a way better percentage off the dribble than on catch-and-shoot 3s last season

[Brazil]

I'm fine with him shooting 3s fairly liberally. I just don't think it should be the primary weapon in his bag. He has too many weapons to put so much emphasis on that one.

Plus, I believe the traditional logic of "if you're a big man, shooting too much from distance is wasting your main physical advantage" is still fundamentally true. As easy as shooting 3s may be for him, you know what's even easier? Scoring close to the basket. So quite simply, he will score more total points if he attempts more shots around the basket.

If anyone can refute this, I'd love to hear it.

yes but shooting 3s is also a way to open up and scores more around the basket. Victor for now has not the frame, weight and ass to bully centers around the basket but he can roll which for him is one step from the 3 pts line taking advantage of centers chasing him

[Brazil]

Pop also had this answer as a "Fuck you" to not give any weapon to the media to create a polemic imo

Pretty sure he ripped Wemby a 2nd one in the lockeroom

I don't think so, you can tell when Pop is ironic, his "absolutely" was dead serious, also not the first time he takes 10 or more 3s

[Pauleta14]

I don't think so, you can tell when Pop is ironic, his "absolutely" was dead serious, also not the first time he takes 10 or more 3s

High volune yes but 13?

Maybe, we'll see the trend soon enough

[Brazil]

High volune yes but 13?

Maybe, we'll see the trend soon enough

he won't take 13 on a regular, 13 is in fact the most he took in his carreer, so far he averages 5 pg same as last year

[MannyIsGod]

He shot a better percentage last year on step backs than he did on C&S 3s. Counter intuitive, but true. As someone else pointed out, at 7’4”, his ideal trajectory would come from further out.


Honestly I'd rather have him shooting logo threes than constant catch and shoot ones. He's elite shooting threes off the dribble in transition. Not far behind guys like Doncic and Harden, shooting 37.5% on pull up threes last year. What drives me nuts is seeing Victor always going to the three point line in the halfcourt where he is an awful catch and shoot shooter. Last year he shot 28.3% on catch and shoot threes. Top 1/3 of the league in pull up threes, bottom third or quarter of the league in catch and shoot threes.


statistically he shot a way better percentage off the dribble than on catch-and-shoot 3s last season

I'll eat crow if this turns out to be the case long term, but that's a short term aberration IMO.

[exstatic]

I'll eat crow if this turns out to be the case long term, but that's a short term aberration IMO.

Could be, but could also be what one poster said: that his height and release point requires a longer shot for optimal arc, and that’s what he gets on the pull-ups. A corner three could be the equivalent for him of the dreaded 8-10 foot jumper for most players. Maybe he could learn to consistently bank them like a regular player might on that 8-10 footer.

[Fireball]

Victor can take as many threes as he wants, but for a team that values ball movement and "from good to great" passing I just feel bad to see him walk up with the ball and just chuck it up without anyone else touching the ball once. Well, Pop has no problem, so what do I know

[Davidicus]

Let him rip it. We can complain about the post, but what’s the point right now with no one to pass to out of a triple team (maybe that changes with Vassell back, with say CP3 and Champ on the court). Getting obliterated isn’t the way to build skills or confidence in the post.

With the draft this is the year to chuck as many 3s as possible. And no, 3s in practice can’t replace in-game 3s.

[Davidicus]

Not to mention he has the skills to pump fake, drive and dish. Start seriously working on post moves when he bulks up and has more shooters around him.

[Seventyniner]

:pop: The shooting will continue until morale improves.

[Arcadian]

yes but shooting 3s is also a way to open up and scores more around the basket. Victor for now has not the frame, weight and ass to bully centers around the basket but he can roll which for him is one step from the 3 pts line taking advantage of centers chasing him

I don't see him ever being a bully in the post, but that isn't the only way to play post. He can and should be a finesse post player. He can use his skill and quickness to out-maneuver and work his way around opposing centers...or simply rise up and shoot right over them. He might not have a traditional hook shot, but that doesn't matter. He knows how to shoot the ball from different angles from different spots on the floor. I want to see more of that.

[ambchang]

It’s not how many threes, it’s what kind of threes. Out of rhythm threes with 21 seconds on the shot clock is and always will be a bad shot. He should focus on shooting in the flow of the offence.

[poopbox]

Victors 3's are born out of 40% of our roster refusing to take 3's, somebody has to shoot them. When Devin comes back he will shoot less of them. If we actually get a real shooter on this team he'll take even less.

Some of it is also having him vacate the paint to give Sochan room to work, since he can't score at all outside of 7 feet. If Victor is going to be around the rim then what is even the point of Sochan, who can't score anywhere else?

[Obstructed_View]

He was +43, folks.

:lmao fuckin Spurstalk.

[itzsoweezee]

The problem is not that he’s taking threes. The problem is that he’s not taking twos. He’s not even trying hard to score within the three point line. His effort has been terrible.

How many times has he rolled (hard) on screens versus popping out or standing still? He and Chris could be devastating as a duo but victor’s not putting in the effort. Hopefully it is just a conditioning thing, but anyone that says he’s not playing worse than he did the latter part of last season is just lying to themselves

[TDMVPDPOY]

should be scoring inside to score easy points and keep the defense in foul trouble to open up the game instead of pulling a nve everytime he dribbles the ball down the half court

[ambchang]

So far it’s almost like he shoots threes to start the game and if they go it, forces the defence to come out then he goes inside. But if they don’t it’s a bad game ahead.

[CGD]

Damn, he’s at 22% so far.

[stephen jackson]

lol this is hilarious pop is senile

[scott]

Here is a good breakdown of Vic’s 3’s last season. As you can see, he does much better on off the dribble vs. Catch and shoot, but the stats show he also does SIGNIFICANTLY better the more dribbles he takes and the longer he has the ball in his hands… unfortunately I’m not sure either of these things are all that productive, considering how easily the ball gets stolen from him and how him trying to ISO usually is one of his least successful moves.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1641705/shots-dash?Season=2023-24

I’m trying to see if I can find the data on the Step-back threes, because that seems to be his most successful 3pt shot

[Limguogolo]

It's a balance to find. Let Victor shoot three-pointers, make mistakes because the team is in a process of learning more than winning, OK. But you also have to win to gain confidence. As we saw last year, the cycle of defeat can be extremely demoralizing.

Yesterday, he made his first three-point shot (very complicated) and missed the other six. Six FA is still acceptable within this framework defined by Pop. 15 FA is already much more suspicious. It was in a victory so why not...

No, the major problem is not the number of three points and its ineffectiveness. The problem is how he takes them. I'm not asking him to catch and shoot, but to define spots that could become threats in the future. The question is not the 15 FA, it's the distance and the off balance uncontested rushed threes. 28 or 29 feet away makes no sense. And if it was a question of developing three-point spots, why among all these shots are none in the corner? None. It's a guard game, not even a wing game. And why all these rushed shots? He's open and he's 7,5, no one will block him. Take your time, control your body.

Shooting from three points will ultimately be essential anyway if he wants to facilitate access to the paint. For now, if he takes these shots, it's also because teams let him shoot. If his percentage increases, Victor will be able to attack the close out more easily and get to the basket.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3A&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022400146&PlayerID=1641705&RangeType=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612759&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3A&GameID=0022400130&PlayerID=1641705&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

[libertarian4321]

Wemby is 7'4". Why is he trying so hard to play like he's 6'3" Steve Kerr?

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://youtu.be/NaniO3tJdaY

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNW9ibDFna2o3MWRqOG1lMTR6ODIyeW9 jb21iYjJjOHJ0cmJ5Y3JrZiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/uo6Kk1Oq66UAaQ4AXv/giphy.gif

[SupremeGuy]

Yeah his 3 has been crap so far...

Let him keep shooting because it has to get better tbh.

[ambchang]

https://youtu.be/NaniO3tJdaY

Why can’t he do it more? If he keeps this up the perimeter will be so open even zollins, sochan and castle will be nailing threes.

[Raven]

as someone mentioned in other topics, wemby shooting threes and sochan attacking the pain is far more desirable than wemby attacking the paint and sochan shooting threes

[Raven]

Wemby is 7'4". Why is he trying so hard to play like he's 6'3" Steve Kerr?

because there is no physical reason why he can't if the length balance is kept

[widowmaker]

Wemby grew up in the curry era and wants to emulate the same gameplay. He wants to play like a guard in a center’s body. All good and dandy if he was actually knocking down shots.

[ambchang]

The problem with wemby playing at the perimeter is actually spacing imho. His length and stride requires a lot of room and if he is at the top of the three point line, the other four spurs players have very little room to move and cut because one wemby stride and he’s at the side of the court. So the only reasonable areas for them to move around is around the baseline up to maybe 10 feet, that’s not a lot of room to move and cut.

It’s either Wemby takes one dribble and he’s right at the teeth of a double team, or he passes to a teammate and his teammate immediately gets doubled.

However, if he is in the high post, specifically the corners, he’s one step (not even a dribble) from a dunk, his teammates can circle the three point line with screens and movement, and there is still room to cut into the paint for layups and dunks on the opposite side of the paint. It actually makes the spacing better.

Wemby doesn’t yet have the handles to deal with two or three guards swilling at him. And honestly I don’t think anybody does. He has long arms, extremely agile so he can dribble low but it’s still a hard game to play.

Why fit a square peg in a round hole?

[Brazil]

12 attempts tonight making half

[Frenchfred]

at least he is back above 30%

[scott]

12 attempts tonight making half

Coming off of 6/9 - he’s on a hot streak. He’s making the threes he SHOULD be taking, and airballing the dumb “wtf are doing bro” threes.

[John B]

6 of 12 tonight. Just keep shooting.

[CorrectCrusader]

Keep that chucking going Wemby they'll fall!!!!

[TrainOfThought5]

Coming off of 6/9 - he’s on a hot streak. He’s making the threes he SHOULD be taking, and airballing the dumb “wtf are doing bro” threes.

watching 20 year olds grow is tough

[Pauleta14]

He only took one bad 3 today, the one leaning on his right

It starts with his shots selection

[jesterbobman]

Close to the line (rather than 5 foot deep), off of some other offensive set seems much better than the off the dribble one legged runner nonsense is much more likely to be a good shot - fewer variables and adjustments in balance. He shot better off the dribble last year, but that's rare. Likely that he's going to be a better shooter off the catch / as a pick and pop threat than as an iso god, but the iso god stuff is part of why the ceiling is is high - if that goes in, you basically can't guard him 1:1 on the perimeter, have to tilt help to him even off ball, and then everyone is attacking a bent defence.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Close to the line (rather than 5 foot deep), off of some other offensive set seems much better than the off the dribble one legged runner nonsense is much more likely to be a good shot - fewer variables and adjustments in balance. He shot better off the dribble last year, but that's rare. Likely that he's going to be a better shooter off the catch / as a pick and pop threat than as an iso god, but the iso god stuff is part of why the ceiling is is high - if that goes in, you basically can't guard him 1:1 on the perimeter, have to tilt help to him even off ball, and then everyone is attacking a bent defence.
This!

[ambchang]

Good shots I can live with. It’s always about shot selection. I’d be pissed if he was taking off balanced twos for no reason as well.

[spurraider21]

I mean the concept is clear. If he becomes proficient at them, there’s no meaningful way for the defense to take it away. He’s going to get open looks his whole career.

but i don’t see the need for him to be shooting with THIS volume NOW. Go shoot a hundred of them in practice, in shootaround, until you improve enough to unleash more in game
or i guess he could just become elite overnight, what do i know

[John B]

I think his 3’s are more selective now, I think he said same number of attempts but taking better shots, better than 60% the last 3 games, raising his 3pt average to currently to 40%. Not too shabby

[John B]

I think his 3’s are more selective now, I think he said himself he takes same number of attempts but takes better shots, better than 60% the last 3 games, raising his 3pt average to currently to 40%. Not too shabby

[Limguogolo]

I still don't like it. The positive thing is that he seems to take his time shooting more. But these are still circus shots.

I can understand that this has a medium and long term interest in pushing defenses to adapt and come after him high, which should theoretically help him access the paint more easily thanks to a fake and become a triple threat (3s, drive, pass).

Now, it's the volume of shots taken that questions me. If the team consulted before and said that having Sarr in front was the opportunity to welcome him in front of the French GM (Diaw), why not... But it's never good to take as many shots without involving other players on the team. This looks like Kobe without Shaq setting the offensive records and losses.

Seeing Victor say that these “performances” must become the norm makes me rather cautious. Your star scores 50 points, but the others lack rhythm and live in frustration.

[TheBallsbreakers]

I still don't like it. The positive thing is that he seems to take his time shooting more. But these are still circus shots.

I can understand that this has a medium and long term interest in pushing defenses to adapt and come after him high, which should theoretically help him access the paint more easily thanks to a fake and become a triple threat (3s, drive, pass).

Now, it's the volume of shots taken that questions me. If the team consulted before and said that having Sarr in front was the opportunity to welcome him in front of the French GM (Diaw), why not... But it's never good to take as many shots without involving other players on the team. This looks like Kobe without Shaq setting the offensive records and losses.

Seeing Victor say that these “performances” must become the norm makes me rather cautious. Your star scores 50 points, but the others lack rhythm and live in frustration.
His recent performances appear to have helped the team win. Everyone appears to enjoy each other's company thus far.

You have proof of the others lacking rhythm and being frustrated? Are you suggesting Wemby refrain from taking his shots to purposefully involve all-world shooters in Wesley, Branham, et al.? WTF

Did you even watch the game, for crying out loud? NONE OF THOSE WERE CIRCUS SHOTS, FFS. He was mostly open, with even the contested ones he was taking in rhythm.

[Brazil]

:lol well…

[spursgu]

Wemby haters eating crow :lol

[Seventyniner]

I think his 3’s are more selective now, I think he said himself he takes same number of attempts but takes better shots, better than 60% the last 3 games, raising his 3pt average to currently to 40%. Not too shabby

His season average on threes is 34.3% (34/99) now. It was at 22.6% (14/62) after the first 9 games.

34% is acceptable for him, though of course its better for such a high volume shooter to hit a higher percentage. If he could truly become a 38-40% volume 3P shooter long term, gg NBA.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

His season average on threes is 34.3% (34/99) now. It was at 22.6% (14/62) after the first 9 games.

34% is acceptable for him, though of course its better for such a high volume shooter to hit a higher percentage. If he could truly become a 38-40% volume 3P shooter long term, gg NBA.

So he’s 20 for his last 37? Yeah, I think they can live with that.

[Spurs Homer]

:lol I should've known from the screen name you would've had reddit takes


didnt age so well…

[Spurs Homer]

ok genius...
keep being scared and keep trying to turn a unicorn with unlimited talent...
into a one dimensional tall guy who sits under the basket

im going to enjoy having the unicorn do things no one has ever seen yet...

it reminds me of the years living in los angeles and hear people whining that the fucking weather is always perfect- it never rains, it doesnt get cold "i miss having cold weather at christmas" " i wish it would snow"

ok

im hoping wemby jacks up 20-40 threes a game lol

[libertarian4321]

because there is no physical reason why he can't if the length balance is kept

After the last couple of games, it appears I was wrong.

Let Steph Wembanyama shoot!

[ambchang]

The shot selection is better. I have no problems with him shooting open threes within the flow of the game. The issue is shoot. 30 ft from the basket with 21 second left on the shot clock when the offence wasn’t even set and no one was in position to rebound or run back on the break.

Shooting 20/37, in three games is no way sustainable. Go out in context Kyle Korver had the best 3 pt shooting year at 54% and harden with the most attempts at 13.2. 20/37 is close to both numbers.

Wemby shooting half his shots from 3 isn’t a winning formula. He should still go in the paint and high post areas about half of the time, get easy buckets, draw fouls and get some offensive rebounds.

[Sugus]

The shot selection is better. I have no problems with him shooting open threes within the flow of the game. The issue is shoot. 30 ft from the basket with 21 second left on the shot clock when the offence wasn’t even set and no one was in position to rebound or run back on the break.

Shooting 20/37, in three games is no way sustainable. Go out in context Kyle Korver had the best 3 pt shooting year at 54% and harden with the most attempts at 13.2. 20/37 is close to both numbers.

Wemby shooting half his shots from 3 isn’t a winning formula. He should still go in the paint and high post areas about half of the time, get easy buckets, draw fouls and get some offensive rebounds.

Agree with this, and I don't doubt that Wemby and the Spurs acknowledge this as well. No matter how 3pt-heavy the league will become, the 3 is inevitably a high-variance shot, and other tools are always necessary.

But you also don't make omelettes without cracking some eggs, and the last few games are great examples of it. I don't want Victor shooting logo 3's with a full shotclock in the playoffs, and I doubt the coaches do either... But we're very far away from that still. Encouraging his shooting now is planting trees for the future; the trees can be pruned into a shape you like once they've matured.

Wemby will naturally grow to choose better shots, spots, and opportunities as he grows and develops, like any other star NBA player learns to do. Even Jordan had to learn that the high-flying stuff alone wouldn't get him past the Bad Boys.... And Vic's shown a similar intellect and drive.

[Brazil]

Mitch seems also ok with dat volume of 3... last night was his fifth game with 10 or more 3 3PTA. He is at .336 vs. .32.8 from last year and averaging 9 3PTA per game vs. 5.5 last year. Good thing is efficiency wise he is improving by 3 pts at .55.