Two point guards on the court at the same time

[Dejounte]

I have been thinking about this since the OKC game ended. It wasn’t noticeable until this game, but for maybe 40 minutes we had two point guards on the floor (combination of Paul+Castle, Tre+Castle, etc.) where the offense ran fine and then maybe 8 minutes where only one point guard was on the floor (for example, Castle or Paul with Barnes, Keldon, Champ, Bassey) where the offense looked way worse. In that one point guard-only line-up, one of the non-point guards would initiate the offense himself from time to time (because it’s our offensive scheme), and it ran miserably.

It just made me believe that I never want to see a line-up put out there without two players with point guard skills— I don’t care how good you are as a scorer (like Vassell). I just think if this is the scheme going forward (and maybe it has been that way for more than a year) and that we’re going to let players “take turns” initiating the offense, then I want it only to be initiated by the point guards on the floor.

The purpose of this post? If Castle IS the point guard of the future, I don’t think it means we shouldn’t draft another point guard in this upcoming draft. Draft another guy like him even and watch those two monsters take turns initiating the offense and wreak havoc. I’m OK if we draft Dylan Harper, Traore, or whatever popular point guard from this draft. This idea applies to future trades as well. A trade opens up for DeAaron Fox and we’re keeping Castle? Go for it and play them together.

This isn’t the 2000’s anymore. Let’s welcome this new era and get away from traditional lineups. We have a center who wants to play like a wing on offense. A new age is here.

[scott]

https://i.ibb.co/FKxFj9X/two-pgs.png

[spursparker9]

How about 3 PG at the same time? Castle, Tre, CP3

Phoenix once had Bledsole, Isisah Thomas and Dragic - the 3 PGs death lineup!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

How about 3 PG at the same time? Castle, Tre, CP3

Phoenix once had Bledsole, Isisah Thomas and Dragic - the 3 PGs death lineup!

I don't think a third PG is the exact need but just like every other team in the league nowadays a wing with self creation ability would be a fantastic addition that the team currently lacks.

Wouldn't be opposed to seeing more of Paul-Castle-Vassell lineups, they've played very little together so far this season - only 14 mins - and have a slightly negative net rating but it seems like a good idea to give it a serious go.

[RC_Drunkford]

I mean that's basically the point of positionless basketball. Ideally you get an SF who can do that, but since Castle can play 3 positions you just take BPA. Somebody with elite speed at the 1 would do wonders for our offense.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't look too much into it right now, it's just the way our roster is constructed.
The best players are on the floor, regardless of their role.

We have 4 PGs and 2 SGs on the roster, with Devin being injured yet again.
If it persists when both Tre and Devin are available, then we can talk. Tre came back after Devin got injured again.

Two point guards can be a thing if their off ball offense and defense are good enough. Jrue and Derrick work well together because they're not a defensive liability.
Luka and Kyrie have overwhelming offensive talent, but Luka doesn't do shit off the ball and they're poor defensively.

If we can get a point guard who's also good off the ball and can defend to play alongside Castle, then by all means.
My opinion is that you should always go with BPA in the lottery.

[Dejounte]

LeBowen fine, whether it’s by design or not that we’re playing two point guards at the same time it doesn’t matter to me. When or if we start rolling out the “traditional” line-ups once we’re at full strength I believe I’d still feel the same way about the offense looking smoother when Castle and Paul (or some other variation) are out there together. I have no qualms about having our version of the Celtics PG duo, that would be nice.

[LeBowen]

LeBowen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54457) fine, whether it’s by design or not that we’re playing two point guards at the same time it doesn’t matter to me. When or if we start rolling out the “traditional” line-ups once we’re at full strength I believe I’d still feel the same way about the offense looking smoother when Castle and Paul (or some other variation) are out there together. I have no qualms about having our version of the Celtics PG duo, that would be nice.

The point I was trying to make is that every team in the league would play multiple point guards if those point guards were big enough threats (and literally, size wise) off the ball and good enough defensively.
Castle is already a very good defender and good off the ball if we're talking being in the right position. His shooting is a work in progress, but he's way ahead of where we thought he'd be.

Most point guard duos fail because it's just about taking turns with defensive issues on the other end.
You mentioned Fox, Kings decided against keeping both him and Haliburton and I'd say that it was a smart choice.

I'd personally rather have one of those point forwards in the starting lineup together with Castle, would make us a matchup nightmare. For example if that Demin kid turns out to be the real deal and is available.

[Dejounte]

The point I was trying to make is that every team in the league would play multiple point guards if those point guards were big enough threats (and literally, size wise) off the ball and good enough defensively.
Castle is already a very good defender and good off the ball if we're talking being in the right position. His shooting is a work in progress, but he's way ahead of where we thought he'd be.

Most point guard duos fail because it's just about taking turns with defensive issues on the other end.
You mentioned Fox, Kings decided against keeping both him and Haliburton and I'd say that it was a smart choice.

I'd personally rather have one of those point forwards in the starting lineup together with Castle, would make us a matchup nightmare. For example if that Demin kid turns out to be the real deal and is available.

All this has led me to warm up to Kasparas, tbh. But yes, Egor is most ideal and IMO, heads and shoulders above everyone else in this draft class.

[Bruno]

In last year NBA final, both Boston with White/Holiday and Dallas with Irving/Doncic were playing starting lineup featuring 2 players able to play PG. Cavs, the best record of this season, is also starting 2 "PGs" with Garland and Mitchell. 2 PGs lineups can work and work very well.

However, it doesn't always work with the best failure example being the Murray/Young experiment in Atlanta. In Castle case, pairing him with a PG, who isn't a good shooter, likely won't work. I have nothing against pairing him with a PG that can shoot.

Another consequence of adding a PG is that it will move Vassell to the SF spot and having him playing more off ball. It isn't the best way to use him.

[stnick2261]

All this has led me to warm up to Kasparas, tbh. But yes, Egor is most ideal and IMO, heads and shoulders above everyone else in this draft class.

This is what I was going to say, but you beat me to it. I would take Egor Demin (right now) as high as #2 behind Flagg. 9.1 assists per 36min as a 6'9" SG? While shooting 55% from 3? And looking like a beast on defense? Yes, please.

[Seventyniner]

The point I was trying to make is that every team in the league would play multiple point guards if those point guards were big enough threats (and literally, size wise) off the ball and good enough defensively.
Castle is already a very good defender and good off the ball if we're talking being in the right position. His shooting is a work in progress, but he's way ahead of where we thought he'd be.

Most point guard duos fail because it's just about taking turns with defensive issues on the other end.
You mentioned Fox, Kings decided against keeping both him and Haliburton and I'd say that it was a smart choice.

I'd personally rather have one of those point forwards in the starting lineup together with Castle, would make us a matchup nightmare. For example if that Demin kid turns out to be the real deal and is available.

Another way of putting this is that if the Spurs had two copies of Tre Jones they would never play together, but if they had two copies of Castle they would play lots of minutes together, right?

[LeBowen]

Another way of putting this is that if the Spurs had two copies of Tre Jones they would never play together, but if they had two copies of Castle they would play lots of minutes together, right?

Castle that could shoot, yeah. That's why I made Derrick/Jrue comparison.

I'd say that our biggest advantage with Castle at point would be that opponents wouldn't be able to hide their point guards anywhere.
Adding another traditional point guard would give them that opportunity. But if we had a 6'6+, 5 out lineup, it would be impossible to stop.

[cutewizard]

this could qualify ...........

6'9


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW3NQOZvOvI

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3XXxeIb0Rw

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lzX-izc5K4

[Atl Spur]

I have been thinking about this since the OKC game ended. It wasn’t noticeable until this game, but for maybe 40 minutes we had two point guards on the floor (combination of Paul+Castle, Tre+Castle, etc.) where the offense ran fine and then maybe 8 minutes where only one point guard was on the floor (for example, Castle or Paul with Barnes, Keldon, Champ, Bassey) where the offense looked way worse. In that one point guard-only line-up, one of the non-point guards would initiate the offense himself from time to time (because it’s our offensive scheme), and it ran miserably.

It just made me believe that I never want to see a line-up put out there without two players with point guard skills— I don’t care how good you are as a scorer (like Vassell). I just think if this is the scheme going forward (and maybe it has been that way for more than a year) and that we’re going to let players “take turns” initiating the offense, then I want it only to be initiated by the point guards on the floor.

The purpose of this post? If Castle IS the point guard of the future, I don’t think it means we shouldn’t draft another point guard in this upcoming draft. Draft another guy like him even and watch those two monsters take turns initiating the offense and wreak havoc. I’m OK if we draft Dylan Harper, Traore, or whatever popular point guard from this draft. This idea applies to future trades as well. A trade opens up for DeAaron Fox and we’re keeping Castle? Go for it and play them together.

This isn’t the 2000’s anymore. Let’s welcome this new era and get away from traditional lineups. We have a center who wants to play like a wing on offense. A new age is here.

This has been said multiple times by ME referencing Okc; why the long post as if you had an epiphany? Dejavue…most certainly.

[Pauleta14]

Correlations, causations, blabla

Personnel and profiles matter more

[R. DeMurre]

This sort of situation goes way back, with maybe one of the best examples being the Laker team that drafted Magic Johnson and paired him with Norm Nixon, who the year before had been the starting PG. A decade before that, the Knicks paired Clyde Frazier and Earl Monroe, and in the 90s the Bulls variation on this was to have a starting back court of two tall SGs who were both capable of playing minutes at PG while Pippen played the role of point forward. It never hurts to have multiple initiators of an offense.

[LeBowen]

Correlations, causations, blabla

Personnel and profiles matter more

What happened to you, tbh?
It's like a completely different person started using the account over the summer.

It's a topic with valid arguments and points to discuss. They can be wrong, doesn't matter, it's just a forum.
Yet you just come in here, much like in a lot of other topics and are so negative and dismissive of everything.

Noone is forcing you to read it, I don't read a lot of stuff in here. It's not like we went off-topic on a game thread.

[spurraider21]

i havent watched closely at this point, but if there are signs that Demin can develop into a reasonable defender, yeah you have to consider that. with his length, iq, and shooting he could easily thrive off-ball on possessions where castle runs the show or vassell runs the occasional pick and roll

[LeBowen]

i havent watched closely at this point, but if there are signs that Demin can develop into a reasonable defender, yeah you have to consider that. with his length, iq, and shooting he could easily thrive off-ball on possessions where castle runs the show or vassell runs the occasional pick and roll

Wemby is already by far the most impactful defender in the league.
Jeremy and Castle will be elite in no time.
Devin is solid enough, not a negative when fully healthy and engaged.
We don't need the fifth guy to be a good defender, just to not be a negative that gets hunted.
If that fifth guy is an elite scorer and playmaker, we'd definitely be able to live with his defense. Especially if it's a wing with good size.

[spurraider21]

Wemby is already by far the most impactful defender in the league.
Jeremy and Castle will be elite in no time.
Devin is solid enough, not a negative when fully healthy and engaged.
We don't need the fifth guy to be a good defender, just to not be a negative that gets hunted.
If that fifth guy is an elite scorer and playmaker, we'd definitely be able to live with his defense. Especially if it's a wing with good size.
yeah thats why i used "reasonable" defender tbh :lol

and frankly, despite how good he should be, vassell has been a pretty mediocre defender last couple of years. if he doesnt have the stamina to a full effort guy on both ends, then i'd rather he sell out on defense. he doesnt need to exert as much energy in the shotmaking department if we have Paul/Castle leading the show and Wemby still handling quite a bit

[MannyIsGod]

I have been thinking about this since the OKC game ended. It wasn’t noticeable until this game, but for maybe 40 minutes we had two point guards on the floor (combination of Paul+Castle, Tre+Castle, etc.) where the offense ran fine and then maybe 8 minutes where only one point guard was on the floor (for example, Castle or Paul with Barnes, Keldon, Champ, Bassey) where the offense looked way worse. In that one point guard-only line-up, one of the non-point guards would initiate the offense himself from time to time (because it’s our offensive scheme), and it ran miserably.

It just made me believe that I never want to see a line-up put out there without two players with point guard skills— I don’t care how good you are as a scorer (like Vassell). I just think if this is the scheme going forward (and maybe it has been that way for more than a year) and that we’re going to let players “take turns” initiating the offense, then I want it only to be initiated by the point guards on the floor.

The purpose of this post? If Castle IS the point guard of the future, I don’t think it means we shouldn’t draft another point guard in this upcoming draft. Draft another guy like him even and watch those two monsters take turns initiating the offense and wreak havoc. I’m OK if we draft Dylan Harper, Traore, or whatever popular point guard from this draft. This idea applies to future trades as well. A trade opens up for DeAaron Fox and we’re keeping Castle? Go for it and play them together.

This isn’t the 2000’s anymore. Let’s welcome this new era and get away from traditional lineups. We have a center who wants to play like a wing on offense. A new age is here.

I dont' think Castle is a point guard. I think he's capable of being a point guard, but he's also capable of being a two. I think you're conflating being a PG with a player who's able to create offense for themselves and for others which doesn't only come from PGs but on our roster those 3 that you named happen to be the ones who can do that. But if we had a 3 or 4 who could do that then there would be no problem with only have one of our PGs out there.

We just lack players who can penetrate and create shots on a regular basis.

[MannyIsGod]

I will say that that's the great thing about Castle. You can play him with both Paul and Tre because he's a big guard. Definitely agree with Dejounte that we need to have as many creators - if you want to call them PGs thats fine - as possible because there are too many people on this team who can't create offense for shit.

[Pauleta14]

What happened to you, tbh?
It's like a completely different person started using the account over the summer.

It's a topic with valid arguments and points to discuss. They can be wrong, doesn't matter, it's just a forum.
Yet you just come in here, much like in a lot of other topics and are so negative and dismissive of everything.

Noone is forcing you to read it, I don't read a lot of stuff in here. It's not like we went off-topic on a game thread.

Are different opinions THAT tough for you to deal with?

Am I a hater or nazi for thinking different? :lol

I hope ur question is just rhetorical tbh, unless u missed the last few months, I'm a chill dude by nature who like exchanging with diff pov, I admit I don't care any more about the form here bc of he insane amount of ad hominem attacks and internet bullies living here.

As for the topic itself, like 90% of the debates, not specifically basketball related, ppl over interpret correlations as causations. It's no rocket science, just common sense and part of human nature.

Basketball didn't become positionless last summer, and there is no scenario where having undersized (P)guards is a good thing. Just maybe not as bad as the other available options.

It wasn't a "FU" to the thread or OP but a simple touch or irony. Is it THAT bad bro?

Like on most other topics, it seems that self deprecation has become a lost art

[LeBowen]

Are different opinions THAT tough for you to deal with?

Not if people argument them. Dejounte and some of the replies were thought out with explanations. As I said, even if those opinions are wrong, at least there was some effort put in.
I don't like dismissive one-liners.


Am I a hater or nazi for thinking different? :lol

Wrong guy to ask that question, I just instantly skip over every political discussion, not just in here, but everywhere.
You can keep getting into that with other posters, I don't even read that shit.


It wasn't a "FU" to the thread or OP but a simple touch or irony. Is it THAT bad bro?

It wasn't just about this topic, I just noticed how most of your opinions became really negative over the past months, kind of strange.
I also often shit on PATFO for some of their decisions and I think some of our rotation guys are really overrated, but being negative for the sake of it...idk.

[scott]

this could qualify ...........

6'9


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW3NQOZvOvI

Egor looks like all the things that folks tried to convince themselves Topic could be, actualized.

[scott]

Are different opinions THAT tough for you to deal with?

Am I a hater or nazi for thinking different? :lol

I hope ur question is just rhetorical tbh, unless u missed the last few months, I'm a chill dude by nature who like exchanging with diff pov, I admit I don't care any more about the form here bc of he insane amount of ad hominem attacks and internet bullies living here.

As for the topic itself, like 90% of the debates, not specifically basketball related, ppl over interpret correlations as causations. It's no rocket science, just common sense and part of human nature.

Basketball didn't become positionless last summer, and there is no scenario where having undersized (P)guards is a good thing. Just maybe not as bad as the other available options.

It wasn't a "FU" to the thread or OP but a simple touch or irony. Is it THAT bad bro?

Like on most other topics, it seems that self deprecation has become a lost art

French Karen can't take a simple question, lol

[R. DeMurre]

Egor looks like all the things that folks tried to convince themselves Topic could be, actualized.

People were saying that about Traore a few months ago too, and now he's sinking out of the Top 5 due to some mediocre performances... Egor looks great so far, but the sample size is miniscule.

[Pauleta14]

Not if people argument them. Dejounte and some of the replies were thought out with explanations. As I said, even if those opinions are wrong, at least there was some effort put in.
I don't like dismissive one-liners.

They can be very useful and save time tho, can't they? It wasn't dismissive at all, I often go on ST when I take a short break, especially since I stopped smoking, sometimes I go deeper in analysis, sometimes I don't find it necessary when a cple words can sum up my thought.
And I really think the confusion between correlations and causations, is the source of 99% of debates and is very hard for anyone to get out when stuck in it.


Wrong guy to ask that question, I just instantly skip over every political discussion, not just in here, but everywhere.
You can keep getting into that with other posters, I don't even read that shit.

I should have mentioned that I wasn't talking about you, who indeed stays bb and don't recall attacking ppl, my bad.

But context matters and you asked me "what happened?", honesty not much, I'm the same, I like brainstorming sometimes and it triggers some in here when it's just freaking basketball :lol

I've been patient, been diplomatic but at some point why should I make any effort towards bullies who insult around like they breathe? I'm not victimizing myself (I know some will be quick to conclude that ^^), just being pragmatic.



It wasn't just about this topic, I just noticed how most of your opinions became really negative over the past months, kind of strange.
I also often shit on PATFO for some of their decisions and I think some of our rotation guys are really overrated, but being negative for the sake of it...idk.

I don't think it weird, I think it should only be that way, that's how intelligence works, by confronting and doubting what the general consensus is. Not by alwasy finding silver linnings.

Like on other topics, those ARE JUST WORDS, there is no justification to be triggered or getting all emo towards any pov even the one you consider the stupidest. We've all been on ST for years, we all have a decent aount of stupid predictions, one would think it'd bring more humility but no... some still hold the truth it seems.

I'm a Spurs fan since the late 90' bro and I'll die one whoever plays for them, criticizing players or FO's decisions doesn't mean I'm a hater.

When I said (I know that one got a lot of u pissed^^) that MAYBE Wemby didn't end up in the right franchise or MAYBE entertaining a trade wouldn't be absurd (In Spurs inerests), it's not hating, it's a lot more interestng than u think but u need to actually take some distance from ur naural "emotional" position of fan.

An other example, last season I went on Vassell pre ASG bc of his limitations and fragility, boy I got attacked from all over the place with "the worst take of all time", "Wemby stan" etc :lol

Not only my pov evolved post ASG because facts changed (Vassell vastly improved his attitude and game)but today I might be in the minority to defend him as most Spurs fans don't seem to realise what we could lose in term of shooting.

Again, I come here to chill and exchange pov, there aren't any that should be held, the same way (sorry to digress but it's related) even if you despise racists or conservatives, those should be able to express their pov as extrem or idiotic they could be. There isn't another way to get better at something that making mistakes/being wrong first.



What's the worst case scenario? That they're wrong? Is it worth all the insultS and constant aggressivity towards some posters in here? (not even talking about me be what i'm seing like "koriwhat" being presented as a horrible human being when I'm still waiting to see any proof of it).

[Pauleta14]

French Karen can't take a simple question, lol

Thx for making my point scotty

Now go back chasing the nazis :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Wasn‘t Demin mocked at #12? He‘s been on my radar since last season. Didn‘t really scout anybody else except 3-4 other guys from this class, but I‘d be happy if we can get him

[Knoxxx]

Wasn‘t Demin mocked at #12? He‘s been on my radar since last season. Didn‘t really scout anybody else except 3-4 other guys from this class, but I‘d be happy if we can get him

Demin has flown up the Tankathon board all the way to #4, he’s under the radar no more…

[MannyIsGod]

They can be very useful and save time tho, can't they? It wasn't dismissive at all, I often go on ST when I take a short break, especially since I stopped smoking, sometimes I go deeper in analysis, sometimes I don't find it necessary when a cple words can sum up my thought.
And I really think the confusion between correlations and causations, is the source of 99% of debates and is very hard for anyone to get out when stuck in it.



I should have mentioned that I wasn't talking about you, who indeed stays bb and don't recall attacking ppl, my bad.

But context matters and you asked me "what happened?", honesty not much, I'm the same, I like brainstorming sometimes and it triggers some in here when it's just freaking basketball :lol

I've been patient, been diplomatic but at some point why should I make any effort towards bullies who insult around like they breathe? I'm not victimizing myself (I know some will be quick to conclude that ^^), just being pragmatic.




I don't think it weird, I think it should only be that way, that's how intelligence works, by confronting and doubting what the general consensus is. Not by alwasy finding silver linnings.

Like on other topics, those ARE JUST WORDS, there is no justification to be triggered or getting all emo towards any pov even the one you consider the stupidest. We've all been on ST for years, we all have a decent aount of stupid predictions, one would think it'd bring more humility but no... some still hold the truth it seems.

I'm a Spurs fan since the late 90' bro and I'll die one whoever plays for them, criticizing players or FO's decisions doesn't mean I'm a hater.

When I said (I know that one got a lot of u pissed^^) that MAYBE Wemby didn't end up in the right franchise or MAYBE entertaining a trade wouldn't be absurd (In Spurs inerests), it's not hating, it's a lot more interestng than u think but u need to actually take some distance from ur naural "emotional" position of fan.

An other example, last season I went on Vassell pre ASG bc of his limitations and fragility, boy I got attacked from all over the place with "the worst take of all time", "Wemby stan" etc :lol

Not only my pov evolved post ASG because facts changed (Vassell vastly improved his attitude and game)but today I might be in the minority to defend him as most Spurs fans don't seem to realise what we could lose in term of shooting.

Again, I come here to chill and exchange pov, there aren't any that should be held, the same way (sorry to digress but it's related) even if you despise racists or conservatives, those should be able to express their pov as extrem or idiotic they could be. There isn't another way to get better at something that making mistakes/being wrong first.



What's the worst case scenario? That they're wrong? Is it worth all the insultS and constant aggressivity towards some posters in here? (not even talking about me be what i'm seing like "koriwhat" being presented as a horrible human being when I'm still waiting to see any proof of it).

Your post was 100% dismissive and I'm not sure if you understand that due to some misunderstanding of English, but there is no way you can say your first post in this thread is anything but dismissive. I didn't even read anything you put after that because if you don't even acknowledge that simple fact I'm not sure what the value in this post is.

[Pauleta14]

Your post was 100% dismissive and I'm not sure if you understand that due to some misunderstanding of English, but there is no way you can say your first post in this thread is anything but dismissive. I didn't even read anything you put after that because if you don't even acknowledge that simple fact I'm not sure what the value in this post is.

What kind of ultra sensitive woke era do we live in, ffs??? :lol

I was ironical... wow how shame on me! :lmao

The point remain the same and only a few words were necessary, it's a basic confusion between correlation and causations. THAT IS MY OPINION

Had I been dismissive I'd have said it's 100% intellectual masturbation from someone bored... But I didn't.

[MannyIsGod]

What kind of ultra sensitive woke era do we live in, ffs??? :lol

I was ironical... wow how shame on me! :lmao

The point remain the same and only a few words were necessary, it's a basic confusion between correlation and causations. THAT IS MY OPINION

Had I been dismissive I'd have said it's 100% intellectual masturbation from someone bored... But I didn't.

My dude, I am not offended by your bullshit. I think you're a terribly inconsistent poster who makes X statement then tries to pretend that its Y and says that people are being "sensitive" when they point it out. Ironic that you, the person who practically filled the ocean with tears because Curry dared talk a little bit of shit, is calling anyone else sensitive. I don't care if you feel shame or not, but I was just pointing out that your post was dismissive whether you think so or not. You obviously have problems communicating with the people here and I suspect its a language/cultural barrier but that's a YOU problem my friend. Whether or not something you say is considered dismissive is not up to you, tbh. It's up to those who you are communicating with.

For someone who wants to call other people sensitive you sure do spend quite a lot of time bitching that people don't let you have opinions. My opinion is that you project onto others because you know you are a crybaby.

[tonight...you]

My dude, I am not offended by your bullshit. I think you're a terribly inconsistent poster who makes X statement then tries to pretend that its Y and says that people are being "sensitive" when they point it out. Ironic that you, the person who practically filled the ocean with tears because Curry dared talk a little bit of shit, is calling anyone else sensitive. I don't care if you feel shame or not, but I was just pointing out that your post was dismissive whether you think so or not. You obviously have problems communicating with the people here and I suspect its a language/cultural barrier but that's a YOU problem my friend. Whether or not something you say is considered dismissive is not up to you, tbh. It's up to those who you are communicating with.

For someone who wants to call other people sensitive you sure do spend quite a lot of time bitching that people don't let you have opinions. My opinion is that you project onto others because you know you are a crybaby.
yup

[ambchang]

Pauletta has a habit of accusing others of the exact same thing s/he is. It’s really weird. Almost comical.

[Pauleta14]

My dude, I am not offended by your bullshit. I think you're a terribly inconsistent poster who makes X statement then tries to pretend that its Y and says that people are being "sensitive" when they point it out. Ironic that you, the person who practically filled the ocean with tears because Curry dared talk a little bit of shit, is calling anyone else sensitive. I don't care if you feel shame or not, but I was just pointing out that your post was dismissive whether you think so or not. You obviously have problems communicating with the people here and I suspect its a language/cultural barrier but that's a YOU problem my friend. Whether or not something you say is considered dismissive is not up to you, tbh. It's up to those who you are communicating with.

For someone who wants to call other people sensitive you sure do spend quite a lot of time bitching that people don't let you have opinions. My opinion is that you project onto others because you know you are a crybaby.

Who the fuck do you think you are?? :lmao

Do you have (woke) meetings with your mates establishing rankings on who's a good poster or not? who's consistent enough or not?? :lol

GTFO you mentally deficient dickhead with your judgemental bs

[Pauleta14]

Pauletta has a habit of accusing others of the exact same thing s/he is. It’s really weird. Almost comical.

Hey Karen! you missed me I see...

[MannyIsGod]

Who the fuck do you think you are?? :lmao

Do you have (woke) meetings with your mates establishing rankings on who's a good poster or not? who's consistent enough or not?? :lol

GTFO you mentally deficient dickhead with your judgemental bs

Why so sensitive?

[Pauleta14]

Why so sensitive?

I didn't notice you among those other woke nerd Karens in here, but no worries, I'll put u in the same box my darling.

You're a good boy repeating stuff you've read but incapable of supporting any of ur points.

Let's just write shit down :lol

[ambchang]

Hey Karen! you missed me I see...

You seemed to be very sensitive about this topic. How old are you? You have to understand the nuances of the argument.

Are going to accuse me of being a woke transsexual? :lol

[Atl Spur]

Only thing I know is Dejounte stop biting my shit! lol You know I put you on :) it’s all love, don’t give me that whole fuck you barage:(

[Pauleta14]

You seemed to be very sensitive about this topic. How old are you? You have to understand the nuances of the argument.

Are going to accuse me of being a woke transsexual? :lol

I don't recall having once engage any discussion with u Karen, You must be in love to follow me in every thread like that :lol

Also I don't care about your sexuality, too much information

[Chinook]

Pop's been trying to run two-PG lineups since the days of Ford. I mentioned that Paul/Jones minutes were likely, even in a healthy rotation. Castle hasn't been slotted in as a PG in the depth chart this year, so it was likely he was going to get a lot of minutes with Paul and/or Jones. I think a lot of posters wanted him to get solo run to build his skills, but he seems to be building those just fine even with those guys. Paul is letting Cast bring the ball up. I think this is for a lot of reasons (Paul has a better history as an off-ball spacer, Paul may need to save energy and can use his wing spot to communicate with the other players and coaches, etc) but I think a big part of that is development. I hope the Spurs don't shy away from PG prospects in this draft, because they can pretty easily incorporate a BPA talent into their lineup. Even if they don't want a small PG like Dillingham, they could still use another scoring threat given Vassell's reliability issues and the real possibility he's a big piece in a trade. I could see a (Drafted PG), Castle, (Star Forward), Sochan, Wembanyama lineup within a year or two.

[TimmehC]

Manu and Tony both played like PGs and the oughts Spurs teams were at their best when both were on the floor. So this is not exactly groundbreaking, it's an established blueprint for success. But long term, it'll be interesting to see if they go back to it by drafting/signing another initiator to partner with Castle.

[cutewizard]

i havent watched closely at this point, but if there are signs that Demin can develop into a reasonable defender, yeah you have to consider that. with his length, iq, and shooting he could easily thrive off-ball on possessions where castle runs the show or vassell runs the occasional pick and roll

Agree with the Egor Demin thing......could be a good gamble hmmmm

[cutewizard]

We still have Nunez right ?

[rankingtear]

OKC wanted 3 PG like the Paul-Schroder-SGA era. Problem is Spurs legend Chip failed to develop Giddey shot so they are resetting with Topic.

[Atl Spur]

Caruso played pg in college & the pros.

[couchman]

The position is less important than the skill sets of setting up the offense and initiating he play.
As others have noted, Manu and Tony often shared floor time and took turns doing that.
The skill sets doesn’t even have to be a guard.
Guys like Jokic, Sabonis, Kawhi, and Tatum are just a few examples of play initiators who aren’t guards.
Right now Paul and Castle are the only players on the Spurs who’ve shown an ability to regularly break down the defense and initiate. Vassell was showing glimpses late last year.
We need more of those guys.
One of the many reasons Paul helps teams win is that when the game is being decided late in the game he can still ensure we get good shots when the defense is most engaged.
DDR did that for us when he was here.
In the interim we’ve seen Vassell and Kelton try to be the heroes in those situations with mixed results.
I hope Paul stays with us at least one more year to keep teaching Castle and our young guys how it’s done.

[ambchang]

I don't recall having once engage any discussion with u Karen, You must be in love to follow me in every thread like that :lol

Also I don't care about your sexuality, too much information

If I can’t look back a few posts I never would’ve know that it was you who responded to me, but I’m trying to extend an olive branch here. You missed the nuances in my comments. What is wrong with you? And why are you trying to have the last word like a Karen?

Given your mental state I’m not surprised you forgot your nuanced suggestions that everything wrong with the spurs is everyone else’s fault, and that sochan is Wembys kryptonite, then promptly got your shit pushed back in by the entire forum. I’m worried about your mental state, take care.

I won’t have time to respond to you as you’re not worth the time, but don’t take my comments out of context because I’m really concerned about you and also hope you would grow up and not act like a Karen.

Take care. I wish the best for you.

Back to topic, the spurs can run a two PG lineup because those two PGs happen to be players who can play off ball, while doesn’t require to hold on to the ball all day to make something happen, like a tre jones. The spurs are looking to move towards a movement offence and having more initiators and facilitators is the goal, which is why Vassell has to improve his court vision, the team can’t stand around and watch wemby hero ball, and KJ doesn’t fit.

[cutewizard]

Egor Demin

Josh Giddey

Austin Reeves

.................................

Of the retired

Paul Pressey

Boris Diaw

Grant Hill

Scottie Pippen

[spurraider21]

Reaves/Castle woulda been nice

[John B]

It works now because you have a gracious maestro in CP3 who is teaching Castle the ropes, slowly giving him the reins. But during Dejounte and DWhite, it seems a competition for the lead act, more so on Dejounte who likes to be the star. At times it’s best to decide early who’s the main act and get that out of the way. That reminds me of SJax complaining about Pop wanting him to step-back for Manu, or Pop barking at TP to give the ball to Kawhi. Those are needed to establish pecking order. Drafting a dominant PG could create that unhealthy rivalry. It’s best if the players could learn to work it out. And it will depend if they can work out a chemistry or you’re stuck with Team DJ vs Team Trae finally splitting them. I grew up watching the Pistons multiple guard offense, but Isiah was clearly the leader. In Spurs motion offense it works to have connectors, but not necessarily two PG’s imo.

I rather they draft an athletic SF/PF tbh.

[Atl Spur]

Steph should be the pg and they should draft that point forward type ( Egor ) so they can initiate p & roll at every position depending on the matchup. No hiding the Trae Young’s of the world.

[spurraider21]

It works now because you have a gracious maestro in CP3 who is teaching Castle the ropes, slowly giving him the reins. But during Dejounte and DWhite, it seems a competition for the lead act, more so on Dejounte who likes to be the star. At times it’s best to decide early who’s the main act and get that out of the way. That reminds me of SJax complaining about Pop wanting him to step-back for Manu, or Pop barking at TP to give the ball to Kawhi. Those are needed to establish pecking order. Drafting a dominant PG could create that unhealthy rivalry. It’s best if the players could learn to work it out. And it will depend if they can work out a chemistry or you’re stuck with Team DJ vs Team Trae finally splitting them. I grew up watching the Pistons multiple guard offense, but Isiah was clearly the leader. In Spurs motion offense it works to have connectors, but not necessarily two PG’s imo.

I rather they draft an athletic SF/PF tbh.
it also works because both know how to play off ball. CP3 knows how to slide to space so he can take a 3. castle knows how to make timely cuts into space.

murray was never a good off-ball player... which is fine if he's just the lead guard. ATL experiment failed because neither murray nor young could play off ball, even though young in theory has the skillset to play off-ball, he just doesnt do it for some reason

[John B]

If you think of greatest Point Guards, it’s hard not to mention Nash, Kidd and Kevin Johnson. Funny how in Nash rookie year, he was a backup to those two greats. Surprisingly that trio never passed the 1st round of the playoffs. There’s only 1 ball with 3 dominant PG’s who liked to pound the ball. Again in Spurs motion offense, it works best to have connectors instead.

[ambchang]

It works now because you have a gracious maestro in CP3 who is teaching Castle the ropes, slowly giving him the reins. But during Dejounte and DWhite, it seems a competition for the lead act, more so on Dejounte who likes to be the star. At times it’s best to decide early who’s the main act and get that out of the way. That reminds me of SJax complaining about Pop wanting him to step-back for Manu, or Pop barking at TP to give the ball to Kawhi. Those are needed to establish pecking order. Drafting a dominant PG could create that unhealthy rivalry. It’s best if the players could learn to work it out. And it will depend if they can work out a chemistry or you’re stuck with Team DJ vs Team Trae finally splitting them. I grew up watching the Pistons multiple guard offense, but Isiah was clearly the leader. In Spurs motion offense it works to have connectors, but not necessarily two PG’s imo.

I rather they draft an athletic SF/PF tbh.

What I liked about the castle cp3 duo is that they are very clear who is doing what at certain times. They take turns taking the lead and when they are not the lead initiator (mostly castle in that role) the off ball person would be able to pick up that off ball role seamlessly. Ultimately I think the FO is looking to have four players doing that around wemby, where an initiator and wemby will manage the offence, while the other three players can cut and weave, while also acting as a connector in the process. They then take turns being the initiator and it can confuse the living lights out of the defence, as well as allowing them to start the offence at multiple points on the court.

Sochan was clearly groomed to do that last year with the PG experiment. Vassell isn’t there yet and likely need more reps.

[scott]

Assuming this team is healthy, I think the ideal rotation would be:

G: Three Man Rotation with CP3/Castle/Vassell with Tre picking up spot minutes as circumstances dictate (fouls, fatigue, etc)
F: Four Man Rotation with Champ/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes
C: Wemby with situational rotation of Collins and Bassey, depending on match up.

I don't expect CP3 to be back performing at this level next year (but who knows), so that leaves a pretty important hole in the lineup that I'd rather not fill will increased Tre Jones minutes. A "Point Guard" can fit that spot (Traore), or a combo guard (Harper) or a Point Forward (Egor). Good news is that is 3 different options to fill that role. The bad news is that those are kind of the ONLY three options in the draft (that have identified themselves thus far) and all may end up out of our range. This draft seems tilted more towards SGs, Wings and Bigs.

[LeBowen]

^At some point we're going to have to add some actual NBA players to the roster via trades, I'm not that worried about the draft.
We need one more legit guard and at least two more legit wings.

Since wing market is poor, getting a good one in the draft and trading for a guard also works.

As for my personal wishes, here's a list of legit starters who could become realistic targets before the next season starts:
Cam Jonhson - the most obvious one.
Myles Turner he's shooting 41% from 3pt on 5 attempts this season and is on an expiring contract. If he'd be happy with 18-20 million a year, I'd consider him.
MPJ - he's overpaid, but his contract ends before Wemby's extension kicks in. 6'10 forward who's a career 40% 3pt shooter on high volume, would be a perfect combo with Jeremy.
Booker - If there's a chance, I'd go for it. Suns are looking pretty bad after their hot start, KD had to carry them against bad teams, Booker's departure is inevitable. If Devin can't stay healthy...who knows.
Naz Reid - another obvious one, they really fucked up with that Randle trade and I think Randle will take that $30M option for the next season since noone will offer him as much. They'll be well over the cap. Sidenote, but NAW will also be a free agent and he'd be a perfect bench guard for us.
Fox - I'm not the biggest fan, but Kings are treadmilling and he might ask for a trade next summer. The issue would be that he'd need to get extended and he'll ask for a lot of money.
Markkanen - I'll never give up! Maybe he gets tired of losing.

I actually thought there would be more realistic targets, but the market is really poor these days and I wouldn't waste a lot of assets on players older than 30.

[scott]

^At some point we're going to have to add some actual NBA players to the roster via trades, I'm not that worried about the draft.
We need one more legit guard and at least two more legit wings.

Since wing market is poor, getting a good one in the draft and trading for a guard also works.

As for my personal wishes, here's a list of legit starters who could become realistic targets before the next season starts:
Cam Jonhson - the most obvious one.
Myles Turner he's shooting 41% from 3pt on 5 attempts this season and is on an expiring contract. If he'd be happy with 18-20 million a year, I'd consider him.
MPJ - he's overpaid, but his contract ends before Wemby's extension kicks in. 6'10 forward who's a career 40% 3pt shooter on high volume, would be a perfect combo with Jeremy.
Booker - If there's a chance, I'd go for it. Suns are looking pretty bad after their hot start, KD had to carry them against bad teams, Booker's departure is inevitable. If Devin can't stay healthy...who knows.
Naz Reid - another obvious one, they really fucked up with that Randle trade and I think Randle will take that $30M option for the next season since noone will offer him as much. They'll be well over the cap. Sidenote, but NAW will also be a free agent and he'd be a perfect bench guard for us.
Fox - I'm not the biggest fan, but Kings are treadmilling and he might ask for a trade next summer. The issue would be that he'd need to get extended and he'll ask for a lot of money.
Markkanen - I'll never give up! Maybe he gets tired of losing.

I actually thought there would be more realistic targets, but the market is really poor these days and I wouldn't waste a lot of assets on players older than 30.

I like Turner as a player, but unless we plan on revamping our philosophy into more of a two-big approach, I don't think it makes sense to pay a big anything more than $10MM/year. Big Daddy got 3/30. I think that's the range that makes sense for us, and if Bassey continues to emerge I'd try to lock him up for something like 3/20 and then find a 3rd string big on the cheap. (Shame we had to cut lose his bargain contract to make the Barnes trade).

Love all of the big names on your list. Booker/Fox/Markk would each be epic... don't expect us to even really consider any of them except for maybe Markk (next summer baby LFG).

Would not hate a move for Cam once the Nets get the memo that they're supposed to be tanking. Keldon and Collins for Cam and DFS works salary wise :hat would just need to add like a zillion picks :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

^At some point we're going to have to add some actual NBA players to the roster via trades, I'm not that worried about the draft.
We need one more legit guard and at least two more legit wings.

Since wing market is poor, getting a good one in the draft and trading for a guard also works.

As for my personal wishes, here's a list of legit starters who could become realistic targets before the next season starts:
Cam Jonhson - the most obvious one.
Myles Turner he's shooting 41% from 3pt on 5 attempts this season and is on an expiring contract. If he'd be happy with 18-20 million a year, I'd consider him.
MPJ - he's overpaid, but his contract ends before Wemby's extension kicks in. 6'10 forward who's a career 40% 3pt shooter on high volume, would be a perfect combo with Jeremy.
Booker - If there's a chance, I'd go for it. Suns are looking pretty bad after their hot start, KD had to carry them against bad teams, Booker's departure is inevitable. If Devin can't stay healthy...who knows.
Naz Reid - another obvious one, they really fucked up with that Randle trade and I think Randle will take that $30M option for the next season since noone will offer him as much. They'll be well over the cap. Sidenote, but NAW will also be a free agent and he'd be a perfect bench guard for us.
Fox - I'm not the biggest fan, but Kings are treadmilling and he might ask for a trade next summer. The issue would be that he'd need to get extended and he'll ask for a lot of money.
Markkanen - I'll never give up! Maybe he gets tired of losing.

I actually thought there would be more realistic targets, but the market is really poor these days and I wouldn't waste a lot of assets on players older than 30.

good list. I was thinking which piece we could add via trade/FA to take us to contender level once we're a playoff team. Still seems like Markkanen would be the best option by far. I don't really see Ingram as a needle mover. Naz would be nice cause he can play C and PF, so he can get starter minutes by playing both positions coming off the bench.

[LeBowen]

Naz would be nice cause he can play C and PF, so he can get starter minutes by playing both positions coming off the bench.

John Collins would also make sense in that role. Natural PF who can also play C, especially against bench bigs.
Barnes/John Collins
Wemby/Bassey would be solid enough if we don't get anyone better.

Free agents list looks really poor, tbh.
Can't see a single starter in there, just some solid bench players.

[spurraider21]

Booker also fits the "combo guard" role for the 2 point guard lineup we're talking about in this thread. he also accepted a reduced role in the olympics and really honed in on his defense during that experience.

with that said, its the least likely scenario of the above by quite some margin

[LeBowen]

with that said, its the least likely scenario of the above by quite some margin

I think it's unlikely Spurs get him, but I don't think this Phoenix team has much left in them. Should be done after another playoffs disappointment this season.
Their wages are projected at $224M for the next season. With just 9 players on the roster. And Grayson Allen being the best role player.
They're done.

Most reports expect Rockets to go for Giannis, but I actually think they'll go for Booker since they have those Suns picks they got from the Nets. That's why they traded from them. Rockets aren't a franchise that's going to patiently rebuild.

[itzsoweezee]

While it makes a lot of sense as a general approach, the spurs’ implementation has had major issues when they try to force a non-point guard into these roles. Specifically, Branham has been horrible when forced to do this stuff. Similarly, Wesley has been hit and miss. The Spurs can’t seem to get over the foolish idea that point guards can be created at the nba level.

[spurraider21]

I think it's unlikely Spurs get him, but I don't think this Phoenix team has much left in them. Should be done after another playoffs disappointment this season.
Their wages are projected at $224M for the next season. With just 9 players on the roster. And Grayson Allen being the best role player.
They're done.

Most reports expect Rockets to go for Giannis, but I actually think they'll go for Booker since they have those Suns picks they got from the Nets. That's why they traded from them. Rockets aren't a franchise that's going to patiently rebuild.
they'd jettison everything and just build around booker again. i didnt realize he's already 28, but thats still time to build another version of the team with the spare parts they'd get back in a fire sale

[Dejounte]

Barnes is 32, is a decent contributor, probably has several more years of effectiveness.

Paul is 40, is making everlasting impact on our young core.

There is nothing wrong with giving up assets for players over 30. There will be many eras with Wemby.

[scott]

Barnes is 32, is a decent contributor, probably has several more years of effectiveness.

Paul is 40, is making everlasting impact on our young core.

There is nothing wrong with giving up assets for players over 30. There will be many eras with Wemby.

Especially since outcomes like Blake and Malaki aren't that uncommon for late FRPs. FRPs are generally overvalued relative to actual outcomes. Let's use that to our advantage if the opportunity arises.

[exstatic]

they'd jettison everything and just build around booker again. i didnt realize he's already 28, but thats still time to build another version of the team with the spare parts they'd get back in a fire sale

Booker is not an Alpha,and as you said, he’s 28. That’s definitely a cash out scenario.

[LeBowen]

Booker is not an Alpha,and as you said, he’s 28. That’s definitely a cash out scenario.

He's a perfect #2.
I don't like him, but he's averaging 28/5/5 on 48/39/90 in 47 playoff games. Can't dispute that.
His game doesn't rely on athleticism and he never had a major injury.

[Dejounte]

If we could get CP3 right now at 28 we would, and what a monster he would be with this current team. This whole dismissive of players over 27 thing is stupid.

[LeBowen]

If we could get CP3 right now at 28 we would, and what a monster he would be with this current team. This whole dismissive of players over 27 thing is stupid.

I'm personally dimsissing players over 30 who aren't legit all-stars if we're talking giving up more than one FRP for them.
I'm also dimissing 33+ year olds if we're talking free agency and giving them 4 year deals unless it's an all-time great like KD or something.
PG contract backfired for the Sixers before it even started and he'll be on the payroll until he's 38.

[scott]

Great, are we going to do this thing again where other team's All NBA players aren't good enough for the Spurs? :lol

If you get a chance to pick up Devin Booker at a fair price, you take it. Don't turn simple things into complicated things.

[exstatic]

If we could get CP3 right now at 28 we would, and what a monster he would be with this current team. This whole dismissive of players over 27 thing is stupid.

I don’t have a problem with players over 27. What I have a problem with is trying to build around a 28 YO clearly non alpha player. He could have little to no value by the time you get your alpha, and that process could have been faster by cashing that player out for more picks.

[exstatic]

Great, are we going to do this thing again where other team's All NBA players aren't good enough for the Spurs? :lol

If you get a chance to pick up Devin Booker at a fair price, you take it. Don't turn simple things into complicated things.

Of course you do that, because we have our alpha player. Phoenix should absolutely sell him though, and not attempt to build around a clear number two.

[spurraider21]

eh, booker is clearly good enough to be a #1. he was the suns best player when they were a finals team. it was a very good cast around him, yes, but its not like Tatum isn't a #1 even though he has a great cast as well. they're just not elite #1's like Doncic/Giannis et al

[scott]

Devin Booker: 4-time all star, 2 time All NBA (1x first team), 28.0ppg career scorer in the playoffs (47 games played) on .603 TS%, led a team without any other 20ppg scorers to the NBA finals... not an alpha, should be traded immediately. LOL this site sometimes.

[exstatic]

Devin Booker: 4-time all star, 2 time All NBA (1x first team), 28.0ppg career scorer in the playoffs (47 games played) on .603 TS%, led a team without any other 20ppg scorers to the NBA finals... not an alpha, should be traded immediately. LOL this site sometimes.

Why are they so bad with Durant out if Booker is an alpha? They weren’t even a playoff team with Booker filling the box score until CP showed up.

Oh, and Chris Paul led that team to the Finals. Devin just followed because that’s what he is: a follower.

[scott]

Why are they so bad with Durant out if Booker is an alpha? They weren’t even a playoff team with Booker filling the box score until CP showed up.

Oh, and Chris Paul led that team to the Finals. Devin just followed because that’s what he is: a follower.

Maybe it was Jalen Smith who led that team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Devin Booker: 4-time all star, 2 time All NBA (1x first team), 28.0ppg career scorer in the playoffs (47 games played) on .603 TS%, led a team without any other 20ppg scorers to the NBA finals... not an alpha, should be traded immediately. LOL this site sometimes.

you're talking to exstatic. He would rather trade for Jalen Smith than Devin Booker

[exstatic]

you're talking to exstatic. He would rather trade for Jalen Smith than Devin Booker

Since we have our alpha, I would actually like Booker on this team. That’s not the discussion. I’m saying that if Phoenix blows it up, they should trade a 28 YO Booker rather than try to build around him.

[Pauleta14]

If I can’t look back a few posts I never would’ve know that it was you who responded to me, but I’m trying to extend an olive branch here. You missed the nuances in my comments. What is wrong with you? And why are you trying to have the last word like a Karen?

Given your mental state I’m not surprised you forgot your nuanced suggestions that everything wrong with the spurs is everyone else’s fault, and that sochan is Wembys kryptonite, then promptly got your shit pushed back in by the entire forum. I’m worried about your mental state, take care.

I won’t have time to respond to you as you’re not worth the time, but don’t take my comments out of context because I’m really concerned about you and also hope you would grow up and not act like a Karen.

Take care. I wish the best for you.

Back to topic, the spurs can run a two PG lineup because those two PGs happen to be players who can play off ball, while doesn’t require to hold on to the ball all day to make something happen, like a tre jones. The spurs are looking to move towards a movement offence and having more initiators and facilitators is the goal, which is why Vassell has to improve his court vision, the team can’t stand around and watch wemby hero ball, and KJ doesn’t fit.

:lol

Nah gtfo Karen, it's too late, I extended a few of those already but you chose to go ham bc I'm not a fan of Tre Jones or think Sochan and Wemby aren't compatible offensively. You literally went under each of my posts for a week with your usual passive aggressiveness and condescending tone when I tried to explain to you that my pov was A LOT MORE nuanced (that leads you and ohers to think I'm playing both way which is another fucked up reflex a lot of u have btw) but as usual nowadays, it seems ppl have to choose a camp, either fan or biased and uneducated hater...smh

Nice one on the olive branch followed by my supposed mental state tho, no contradiction there...^^

You, like a few here are acting as if ST was your home and whoever has different pov is the worst person ever, it matches your attitudes on the political topic that probably started your (and others) aggressive posts when all I did was reporting basic facts and at no point debated on my political pov.

You can't expect to be respected when you (and your mates) go ALL THE TIME ad hominem vs a diff opinion, it's a sickness and I don't have the time nor the will to have any more patience with you tbh. I come here to chill, not to have to fight.

I, contrary to you guys it seems, love exchanging with diff pov, those are actually the only ones that are worth a discussion, as I've never learned anything debating with ppl who share the same pov.
For that to happen tho, there needs basic rules like don't go at the messenger and stick to the facts not what you think they could mean depending on how I say them or where I live, my nationality etc.

How am I supposed to take u seriously when it's always your M.O? :lol

Evidently this is an impossible task for some of you who prefer a good collective "intellectual" masturbation rather than questioning your "beliefs" and forgetting how often you've been wrong in the past.

I have zero issue admitting I'm wrong, I've done it on Vassell and I'll do it on Tre or Sochan if things change, that's how life works and basketball/sports aren't an ego thing to me, I'm not a 15yo fanboy or hater as some are (too) quick to imagine if I defended Wemby last season for ex.

Just look when I subscribed to ST and tell me how I could be a "fanboy" as you kept attacking me with non stop, dismissing any points I made. I'm actually one of the most critic towards Vic for weeks now as I'm quite disappointed by his evolution and childish attitude not compatible with all he nice words he uses to describe himself in front of a microphone at any opportunity.

Am I gonna be in the "hater" box now? Soon?

Now the topic...

Again, my answer is the same, correlations aren't causations, and it's not the fact that 2 PGs are being used that is a strategy, that's just a correlation, the causation is the simple facts to have guards/backcourt that can handle the ball, pass and have a good court vision, as basketball is more and more positionless.

Spurs used to have Manu who isn't a PG but has those abilities I mentioned. Ideally, we need to find the same type of SG (without necessarily the genius).

It's just a matter of available personnel and Spurs have so many one trick pony with huge limitations, they have to use what they can. Despite being undersized or a liability on offence Tre, for ex is A LOT more reliable with his ball handling than Brahman, Wesley or Champ.

That's why Vassell's progression in his playmaking and ball handling is so important for his future with the Spurs as he's shown difficulties to create space and handle the ball (end of games for ex). (his fragility/availability might end up being the main issue tho)

Why did some of you suddenly went all defensive with my ironical post, I genuinely have no idea but it reminded me some of the stereotypes of Karens or über sensitive leftists (doesn't mean I'm a conservative of a white supremacist tho ^^).
It's probably hard for u to put yourself in my shoes, but imagine how ironical it is to have to the biggest bullies on ST acting as victims. It genuinely made me laugh.

:pop: Get over youselves ffs

[MannyIsGod]

Ain't no one reading that but I'm glad you got it off your chest or whatever.

[Pauleta14]

Ain't no one reading that but I'm glad you got it off your chest or whatever.

It wasn't meant for u dummy, your reading comprehension difficulties are well known.

[ambchang]

:lol

Nah gtfo Karen, it's too late, I extended a few of those already but you chose to go ham bc I'm not a fan of Tre Jones or think Sochan and Wemby aren't compatible offensively. You literally went under each of my posts for a week with your usual passive aggressiveness and condescending tone when I tried to explain to you that my pov was A LOT MORE nuanced (that leads you and ohers to think I'm playing both way which is another fucked up reflex a lot of u have btw) but as usual nowadays, it seems ppl have to choose a camp, either fan or biased and uneducated hater...smh

Nice one on the olive branch followed by my supposed mental state tho, no contradiction there...^^

You, like a few here are acting as if ST was your home and whoever has different pov is the worst person ever, it matches your attitudes on the political topic that probably started your (and others) aggressive posts when all I did was reporting basic facts and at no point debated on my political pov.

You can't expect to be respected when you (and your mates) go ALL THE TIME ad hominem vs a diff opinion, it's a sickness and I don't have the time nor the will to have any more patience with you tbh. I come here to chill, not to have to fight.

I, contrary to you guys it seems, love exchanging with diff pov, those are actually the only ones that are worth a discussion, as I've never learned anything debating with ppl who share the same pov.
For that to happen tho, there needs basic rules like don't go at the messenger and stick to the facts not what you think they could mean depending on how I say them or where I live, my nationality etc.

How am I supposed to take u seriously when it's always your M.O? :lol

Evidently this is an impossible task for some of you who prefer a good collective "intellectual" masturbation rather than questioning your "beliefs" and forgetting how often you've been wrong in the past.

I have zero issue admitting I'm wrong, I've done it on Vassell and I'll do it on Tre or Sochan if things change, that's how life works and basketball/sports aren't an ego thing to me, I'm not a 15yo fanboy or hater as some are (too) quick to imagine if I defended Wemby last season for ex.

Just look when I subscribed to ST and tell me how I could be a "fanboy" as you kept attacking me with non stop, dismissing any points I made. I'm actually one of the most critic towards Vic for weeks now as I'm quite disappointed by his evolution and childish attitude not compatible with all he nice words he uses to describe himself in front of a microphone at any opportunity.

Am I gonna be in the "hater" box now? Soon?

Now the topic...

Again, my answer is the same, correlations aren't causations, and it's not the fact that 2 PGs are being used that is a strategy, that's just a correlation, the causation is the simple facts to have guards/backcourt that can handle the ball, pass and have a good court vision, as basketball is more and more positionless.

Spurs used to have Manu who isn't a PG but has those abilities I mentioned. Ideally, we need to find the same type of SG (without necessarily the genius).

It's just a matter of available personnel and Spurs have so many one trick pony with huge limitations, they have to use what they can. Despite being undersized or a liability on offence Tre, for ex is A LOT more reliable with his ball handling than Brahman, Wesley or Champ.

That's why Vassell's progression in his playmaking and ball handling is so important for his future with the Spurs as he's shown difficulties to create space and handle the ball (end of games for ex). (his fragility/availability might end up being the main issue tho)

Why did some of you suddenly went all defensive with my ironical post, I genuinely have no idea but it reminded me some of the stereotypes of Karens or über sensitive leftists (doesn't mean I'm a conservative of a white supremacist tho ^^).
It's probably hard for u to put yourself in my shoes, but imagine how ironical it is to have to the biggest bullies on ST acting as victims. It genuinely made me laugh.

:pop: Get over youselves ffs

I was actually going to take the time to respond to this, but after thinking about it, it’s just pointless. The root issue is your self awareness is just off the charts bad. Every single thing you accuse others of you are doing it 10 fold. The “passive aggressive” stance I had was just imitating you, it was painfully obvious and I thought you would lose your shit over the sarcasm but instead you just lost your shit over the tone, which was basically how you talk to everyone for months.

The inability to change your stance is a signature. The Vassell example was just hilarious as very single time Vassell did anything that don’t allow wemby to stat pad more you just got full bonkers. You changed your stance as long as Twitter verse changes it stance, it is so obvious that your entire motto is following social media and has no insight of your own, then just come in as some expert with original thought, as if you’re the only person who knows the secret of social media on ST.

Tre and sochan are not superstars, they are not even good players at this point, (sochan may turn the corner, need many more games to tell), but they are incredible role players who do their jobs. Tre clearly improved the team when he’s playing, smart limited player who does his job and does it well. Perfect backup for a decent team. Sochan is a fantastic glue guy who defends well and complements wemby on defence. His cutting opens up large swaths of real estate for wemby and the rest of the team to operate but you’d never understand it because Twitter casuals don’t. Are they superstar perfect compliments for wemby? No. They definitely can be upgraded, but to who? And how? Id like to get a prime curry and Dirk nowitzki next to wemby too, but that’s not happening. You just spend every single post complaining about them not being perfect to wemby and make wemby look better when it was wemby who puts up highly questionable shots to start the season. He did it again yesterday vs the warriors at the beginning of the game, but once he got his shit together the team turned it around.

I’m grateful to have wemby, but treating like his shit don’t stink is hilarious. You blamed the entire French team the entire freaking summer, and yet they won silver. Then it’s all because wemby is great and his teammates and the committee let him down because the team didn’t win gold.

Saying your takes are nuanced is the funniest part. It’s not. It’s constant shitting on any non wemby player or the coaches. In the jazz game thread when the spurs were down you immediately jumped to clown on people who supported Tre and mitch as if you’re bringing receipts, then it’s all crickets when Tre came up big(ish) and Mitch made good coaching decisions for the comeback. You don’t own up to shit. All you do is coming up with excuses for wemby all day every day. You went on for months criticizing wemby? Bullshit, every single “criticism” always come with triple the amount of excuses and how the useless scrub teammates are actually the main cause for concern.

You throw out terrible one liners, got called out and then throw hissy fits and change goal posts and talk about nuances. GTFO, you had a bad take, got called out, then pretended you meant something else, then got called out more, throw a bigger tantrum on how people couldn’t read into the 17th level of depth in your nuanced comment that was only 24 characters long. You suck in your basketball knowledge, tried to troll and get all sensitive when people clown you for your bad takes, as if you forgot that you were trolling to begin with.

Accusing others of comprehension issues when it’s your shit composition. Check.
Accuse others of being emotional when you’ve been spending weeks complaining about people being mean to you. Check.
Accusing others of not taking other povs. Check. Really, when did you ever take another pov? When the games are so bad that even you can’t defend it, you either drop the conversation as if you’ve never typed it up, or you just say “I was joking and didn’t care, you guys go all apeshit, I got you” bullshit response.

Grow the fuck up. The entire board is calling you out constantly, maybe it’s you and not everyone else.


Edit: how fucking stupid can you be for not getting the olive branch sarcasm. Like really?

[Chinook]

:wow

[Pauleta14]

I was actually going to take the time to respond to this, but after thinking about it, it’s just pointless.

WTF were all those words that followed about then?? :lol

Thx Karen, that's all I needed, you're just a desperate case

[ginobilized]

2 point guards on the floor simultaneously is 2 more than we had much of the time last season. Based on the current results, I'm all for it.

[Seventyniner]

If you like multiple PGs on the floor, that Jones/CP3/Castle/Barnes/Wemby lineup at the end of the game is right up your alley.

[cutewizard]

What I liked about the castle cp3 duo is that they are very clear who is doing what at certain times. They take turns taking the lead and when they are not the lead initiator (mostly castle in that role) the off ball person would be able to pick up that off ball role seamlessly. Ultimately I think the FO is looking to have four players doing that around wemby, where an initiator and wemby will manage the offence, while the other three players can cut and weave, while also acting as a connector in the process. They then take turns being the initiator and it can confuse the living lights out of the defence, as well as allowing them to start the offence at multiple points on the court.

Sochan was clearly groomed to do that last year with the PG experiment. Vassell isn’t there yet and likely need more reps.

...............

On point here good Sir.....

I have been imagining this set up too, something like Wemby (point center) being surrounded by four point forward archetypes...... incredible idea.....

Hypothetically,

Wemby
Castle
Austin Reeves equivalent
Egor Demin
Sochan......

[DAF86]

Egor Demin would be ideal for this train of thought the Spurs seem to follow of having an entire lineup of tall guy with PG skills.

Too bad the Spurs seem to be playing their way out of Denmin's range.

[exstatic]

Egor Demin would be ideal for this train of thought the Spurs seem to follow of having an entire lineup of tall guy with PG skills.

Too bad the Spurs seem to be playing their way out of Denmin's range.

Atlanta isn’t, though. :)

[DAF86]

Atlanta isn’t, though. :)

The East is just too shitty. They are gonna be in the play in with a 32-50 record.

[exstatic]

The East is just too shitty. They are gonna be in the play in with a 32-50 record.

I’m seriously doubting that. They just can’t defend anyone, regularly giving up high 120s and 130s. The worst thing they could do to us is trade a Trae away. He’s the sea anchor, dragging them down. They played better when he was out.

The East is shitty, but they’re the shittiest of the Shitty, or nearly so. Even teams like Detroit that I had penciled in as tankers are ahead of them in the standings.

[ambchang]

I am actually souring more and more on Vassell, I liked his ability to score in isolation, but he doesn't seem to fit where the team is headed. He can be that change of pace guy for sure, but I had bigger hopes for him. I think he has the skills to be that creator on the team, not just for himself but for his teammates as well, and I definitely thinks he can play D a bit harder.

Still think he's a good pick, just not sure if he is the type of player the Spurs is trying to build on.

On that train of thought, not sure what Branham is on the team for. I can see the outline with Wesley with the defence and the passing, but Branham with his no d-playing trigger finger is just not what the team is headed towards. Perhaps the team wanted someone who can score in a hurry, but there are way better options on the market for that.

[John B]

I am actually souring more and more on Vassell, I liked his ability to score in isolation, but he doesn't seem to fit where the team is headed. He can be that change of pace guy for sure, but I had bigger hopes for him. I think he has the skills to be that creator on the team, not just for himself but for his teammates as well, and I definitely thinks he can play D a bit harder.

Still think he's a good pick, just not sure if he is the type of player the Spurs is trying to build on.

On that train of thought, not sure what Branham is on the team for. I can see the outline with Wesley with the defence and the passing, but Branham with his no d-playing trigger finger is just not what the team is headed towards. Perhaps the team wanted someone who can score in a hurry, but there are way better options on the market for that.

Branham needs to be a shooting specialist, which Champ already beat him to it (plus rebounding and defense), like Patty, Beli, Neal. Spurs always had knockdown shooters during the championship years.

[spurraider21]

I’m seriously doubting that. They just can’t defend anyone, regularly giving up high 120s and 130s. The worst thing they could do to us is trade a Trae away. He’s the sea anchor, dragging them down. They played better when he was out.

The East is shitty, but they’re the shittiest of the Shitty, or nearly so. Even teams like Detroit that I had penciled in as tankers are ahead of them in the standings.
he missed one game :lol

for the season, the team's net rating is -2.6 with him on the floor, -9 with him off

[exstatic]

he missed one game :lol

for the season, the team's net rating is -2.6 with him on the floor, -9 with him off

…and 1-0 without him playing. That was the huge game by Dyson Daniels.

[Mr. Body]

I am actually souring more and more on Vassell, I liked his ability to score in isolation, but he doesn't seem to fit where the team is headed. He can be that change of pace guy for sure, but I had bigger hopes for him. I think he has the skills to be that creator on the team, not just for himself but for his teammates as well, and I definitely thinks he can play D a bit harder.

Still think he's a good pick, just not sure if he is the type of player the Spurs is trying to build on.

On that train of thought, not sure what Branham is on the team for. I can see the outline with Wesley with the defence and the passing, but Branham with his no d-playing trigger finger is just not what the team is headed towards. Perhaps the team wanted someone who can score in a hurry, but there are way better options on the market for that.

Wesley and Branham were picked late 1st round in a draft that was nearly depleted at that point, before we had Wembanyama. I don't blame the team for continuing to develop them. It costs nothing to work with them right now.

- Branham has improved on defense. Never be a stopper, but to me he's more passing the eye test, working harder, staying engaged. My big swing is whether he can be aggressive and confident. It still seems like he's playing apologetically. There's still a good bench scorer in there.

- Wesley has improved his decision making especially when to attack the rim. He's too small to be a true stopper, but can be disruptive off the bench. He's also very fast. Unfortunately his outside threat is non-existent.

As for Devin, if he can't play, that's a completely different thing. But when he's on the court, I worry about his lack of separation. That's a serious problem. He's able to make tough shots, but he may not be the one-on-one playmaker the team badly needs.

[spurraider21]

…and 1-0 without him playing. That was the huge game by Dyson Daniels.
holy sample size batman

[exstatic]

holy sample size batman

:lol Not a requirement on this forum.

[scott]

Spurs have at least gone to a "one of PG3, Tre, or Castle on the court at all times the last 3 games:

https://i.ibb.co/g3gjrc6/pgs.png

[Seventyniner]

It's a lot easier to have two PGs on the floor when one of them is Castle who plays well off the ball too.

[ambchang]

Wesley and Branham were picked late 1st round in a draft that was nearly depleted at that point, before we had Wembanyama. I don't blame the team for continuing to develop them. It costs nothing to work with them right now.

- Branham has improved on defense. Never be a stopper, but to me he's more passing the eye test, working harder, staying engaged. My big swing is whether he can be aggressive and confident. It still seems like he's playing apologetically. There's still a good bench scorer in there.

- Wesley has improved his decision making especially when to attack the rim. He's too small to be a true stopper, but can be disruptive off the bench. He's also very fast. Unfortunately his outside threat is non-existent.

As for Devin, if he can't play, that's a completely different thing. But when he's on the court, I worry about his lack of separation. That's a serious problem. He's able to make tough shots, but he may not be the one-on-one playmaker the team badly needs.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m ok with those picks at those positions. I actually liked Blake especially at 25. He’s gotten better the last few games so hope he is trending up. I always liked his defence and tenacity. I felt he has decent passing and passable vision. The issue as everybody knows is his scoring, and more precisely finishing. He has no problems getting to the rim or getting a decent shot off, he just can’t finish and sometimes just refuse to even take the shot because he knows he can’t finish. So if he just works on that I think he’d be a really good backup guard.

Branham, I don’t know. He can score and that’s it. Good pick at 20. But not sure if that’s what the spurs need.

Vassell I agree, will have to wait and see. I started disliking some of what he does starting last year, where he just keep shooting (and making) these tough shots. His defence is also getting lazy. If he gets his defence back on track and be more discriminant on his shots then he’d be awesome.

[Obstructed_View]

We hoped Branham would develop into what Jared McCain, Rob Dillingham and Dalton Knecht already are after 20 games.

[cutewizard]

Egor Demin would be ideal for this train of thought the Spurs seem to follow of having an entire lineup of tall guy with PG skills.

Too bad the Spurs seem to be playing their way out of Denmin's range.

---------------------------------------------

Good Sir, at what point do you project him to be? And what are the odds/chances we can get him?

Thanks

[John B]

We hoped Branham would develop into what Jared McCain, Rob Dillingham and Dalton Knecht already are after 20 games.

Dilly is averaging 3.8 pts. Branham was averaging 10.2 pts in his rookie year, and have had several 20+ pts.

[quentin_compson]

Branham was getting 23.5 MPG on a bad team in his rookie season, whereas Dillingham so far has been getting 8.4 MPG on a playoff team. Both per 36 minutes and per 100 possessions, Dillingham would actually outscore Branham in their respective rookie seasons as of now.

[exstatic]

Branham was getting 23.5 MPG on a bad team in his rookie season, whereas Dillingham so far has been getting 8.4 MPG on a playoff team. Both per 36 minutes and per 100 possessions, Dillingham would actually outscore Branham in their respective rookie seasons as of now.

Per36 is only really useful above a certain level. No one comes in and burns it up for 30 or36 minutes, but you will for 8.4.

[Mr. Body]

Malaki Branham is now and probably always will be a far, far better defender than Rob Dillingham ever will be.

[DAF86]

---------------------------------------------

Good Sir, at what point do you project him to be? And what are the odds/chances we can get him?

Thanks

Probably top 5. I don't see us getting that high without extreme luck, tbh.

[quentin_compson]

Per36 is only really useful above a certain level. No one comes in and burns it up for 30 or36 minutes, but you will for 8.4.

I agree with that. I was just replying to the nonsensical argument that rookie Branham put up 10 PPG, ergo he must be better than rookie Dillingham with 4 PPG.

[Obstructed_View]

Dilly is averaging 3.8 pts. Branham was averaging 10.2 pts in his rookie year, and have had several 20+ pts.

Lol. You go with that. Good luck.

[spurraider21]

Malaki Branham is now and probably always will be a far, far better defender than Rob Dillingham ever will be.
0 is not greater than 0

[LeBowen]

Dejounte

Seems like a relevant topic again.

Without going into detail, I think we could be onto something by inversing the traditional basketball principles.
Assuming we get Fox and keep Castle, two of them in combination with Wemby and two great shooters could be unstoppable.

Fox is one of the best in the league at getting to the rim and finishing, Castle is projected to be a guard that's all about bullying inferior matchups and scoring in the paint.
With Wemby's obvious wishes of being a 7'4 KD, on paper it looks like a potentially unstoppable system if everything develops according to plan.

How do you even defend a team with such structure?

[Seventyniner]

If the Spurs do trade for Fox while keeping both Castle and CP3, they would be all but forced to run a ton of two-PG lineups. And that's without Tre Jones, though I assume he would be included in the Fox deal if CP3 wants to stay.

[spurraider21]

Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342)

Seems like a relevant topic again.

Without going into detail, I think we could be onto something by inversing the traditional basketball principles.
Assuming we get Fox and keep Castle, two of them in combination with Wemby and two great shooters could be unstoppable.

Fox is one of the best in the league at getting to the rim and finishing, Castle is projected to be a guard that's all about bullying inferior matchups and scoring in the paint.
With Wemby's obvious wishes of being a 7'4 KD, on paper it looks like a potentially unstoppable system if everything develops according to plan.

How do you even defend a team with such structure?
fox has at least developed into a capable and willing shooter. not a good one, but good enough. castle absolutely would have to get there. and then sochan becomes even more of a problem

[scott]

fox has at least developed into a capable and willing shooter. not a good one, but good enough. castle absolutely would have to get there. and then sochan becomes even more of a problem

Yeah, I think people overstate Fox's shooting limitations. He's not a knockdown sniper, but he's not a guy who teams are going to leave wide open and dare to shoot like Sochan. So long as Fox develops into a decent 3P shooter, that pairing would be fine.

A Barnes/Aldama wing pairing in 2025 would be my dream.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I think people overstate Fox's shooting limitations. He's not a knockdown sniper, but he's not a guy who teams are going to leave wide open and dare to shoot like Sochan. So long as Fox develops into a decent 3P shooter, that pairing would be fine.

As I wrote earlier, Booker is just 1% better from 3pt than Fox over the past 2.5 seasons, identical volume.


A Barnes/Aldama wing pairing in 2025 would be my dream.

I'd be happy with any of Aldama, Naz or John Collins.
I'd maybe even prefer Collins since he'd probably accept a lower extension than what those two will ask for.

[scott]

As I wrote earlier, Booker is just 1% better from 3pt than Fox over the past 2.5 seasons, identical volume.



I'd be happy with any of Aldama, Naz or John Collins.
I'd maybe even prefer Collins since he'd probably accept a lower extension than what those two will ask for.

I'd be happy with either of the other two as well, but I really like Santi. John Collins I'm probably the least excited about, but I wouldn't hate it. We won't need any of them when we get Flagg though :lol

Also still hope we take a good look at LaRavia.

[LeBowen]

Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342)

Seems like a relevant topic again.

Without going into detail, I think we could be onto something by inversing the traditional basketball principles.
Assuming we get Fox and keep Castle, two of them in combination with Wemby and two great shooters could be unstoppable.

Fox is one of the best in the league at getting to the rim and finishing, Castle is projected to be a guard that's all about bullying inferior matchups and scoring in the paint.
With Wemby's obvious wishes of being a 7'4 KD, on paper it looks like a potentially unstoppable system if everything develops according to plan.

How do you even defend a team with such structure?

Relevant bump, let's call it inverse basketball!
This probably means Spurs fully bought into the Wemby is a wing on offense idea.

[cutewizard]

San Antonio Spurs updated roster:

De’Aaron Fox
Victor Wembanyama
Chris Paul
Stephon Castle
Devin Vassell
Keldon Johnson
Harrison Barnes
Julian Champagnie
Jeremy Sochan
Malaki Branham
Blake Wesley
Charles Bassey
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Jordan McLaughlin