The NBA is pathetic and unwatchable these days

[UNT Eagles 2016]

There was a thread blaming Wemby for laziness and chucking which is accurate but it's not in a vaccuum. The fact is the whole league just fucking sucks these days. The Adam Silver regime has completely fucked the NBA permanently. How did we turn a beautiful sport where players worked to get the best shot selection against players who fought equally competitively on defense, to arcade mode skittleball-chuckball basically a professional sport composed of 7 year olds playing 2k on easy mode?

Heck, in my day the All Star Game (which was East vs West as it SHOULD be, tbh) was actually competitive, people actually played defense and it wasn't a chuckfest and dunkfest. In the ALL STAR GAME. When it started getting that way close to 2010 it was all downhill for the league from there. I remember that, zoomers don't. But now, the "modern" All Star Game is now just about every game. Why play defense if everyone is just going to chuck the first available three?

One solution might be that the three point shot needs to get axed. In the 80s when we last had this stupid frenetic brand of basketball at least there wasn't a gimmick shot available. Oh, and you could foul someone without getting ejected and suspended back then, too. The NBA is a soft basket of pussies these days, sold out to China, sold out to zoomertards, sold out to Stef Curry, Adam Silver, and every faggot associated with them.

People of the ilk of.... Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Bruce Bowen, Manu Ginobili, Stan Kelly, Joel Meyers and Bill Land are never coming back. Why does upstairs still watch?

Fuck Today's NBA.

[Mr. Body]

It worked for a while. They changed the rules to help whatever the Golden State Warriors wanted to do, then changed the rules more to suit whatever James Harden and his followers wanted to do, and here we are. They were hugely popular for a while.

I don't personally think they need to make impossible changes to the 3-pointer. They just need to crank back ignoring the rules violations that got us here. Once you do that, you'll need more comprehensive, more talented players who do more than just ring around the 3-point line and chuck away.

- Get rid of moving screens. The offensive screener gets to set a screen; if he moves at all while the defender tries to navigate, it's an offensive foul. Full stop.
- Get rid of step-backs, side-steps, stopping with the dribble yet still getting two steps. Those are all travels.
- Defenders get the benefit of the doubt on rip-throughs. They tried to correct this but more should be done. If an offensive player moves through a defender's arm to make a shot, there is no call or offensive call.
- Allow actual contact on the perimeter and elsewhere. The league charges defenders often for just standing or slightly moving when an offensive player moves into them. SGA is excellent at this call. The defender has a right to exist and should never get called just because a player runs into them.

If you get rid of the massive rules changes the league made to boost this kind of offense, then things will likely settle back into a better state. Moving screens and those travel step-backs will be a major part of it.

[John B]

I’m glad you got that out of your chest.

Pop for the longest time didn’t like chucking 3pts. But it caught up to him. The league average % for 2pts is 45%, while 3pts is 39%. At 10 attempts it’s 9 pts < 11.5 pts. Easily you take the 3! So unless you remove the 3pt, which would clog the lanes. I doubt Wemby’s body type could handle that. I think it favors Wemby to play in this era, and he’s our guy. So I’m not complaining.

[LeBowen]

https://youtu.be/6IPXSqOhykg?si=VEEhdtQ5ZuIERUnV

Everything is in there.
Carrying is the most egregious thing for me.
Some players legit just carry the ball around.

[paperboy77]

Crazy but today's NBA is crazy... how bout only allow a number like 7 three's per game and 2 in OT and in the last 2 minutes. That's it. That's 7 made until the end.

[Das Texan]

Bring back hand checking as well while we are at it.

Just eliminating some of these moronic step and gather rules alone should help reign in the lunancy that is the NBA today.

[scott]

Boomer thread

[ambchang]

Gather step should be gone as well. It’s three sometimes four steps on a layup, it’s just impossible to guard.

[TheBallsbreakers]

There was a thread blaming Wemby for laziness and chucking which is accurate but it's not in a vaccuum. The fact is the whole league just fucking sucks these days. The Adam Silver regime has completely fucked the NBA permanently. How did we turn a beautiful sport where players worked to get the best shot selection against players who fought equally competitively on defense, to arcade mode skittleball-chuckball basically a professional sport composed of 7 year olds playing 2k on easy mode?

Heck, in my day the All Star Game (which was East vs West as it SHOULD be, tbh) was actually competitive, people actually played defense and it wasn't a chuckfest and dunkfest. In the ALL STAR GAME. When it started getting that way close to 2010 it was all downhill for the league from there. I remember that, zoomers don't. But now, the "modern" All Star Game is now just about every game. Why play defense if everyone is just going to chuck the first available three?

One solution might be that the three point shot needs to get axed. In the 80s when we last had this stupid frenetic brand of basketball at least there wasn't a gimmick shot available. Oh, and you could foul someone without getting ejected and suspended back then, too. The NBA is a soft basket of pussies these days, sold out to China, sold out to zoomertards, sold out to Stef Curry, Adam Silver, and every faggot associated with them.

People of the ilk of.... Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Bruce Bowen, Manu Ginobili, Stan Kelly, Joel Meyers and Bill Land are never coming back. Why does upstairs still watch?

Fuck Today's NBA.
Bill Land?Joel Meyers? Stan Kelley? HAHAHA

[TrainOfThought5]

This is the most old man shakes fist at cloud thread I’ve ever seen.

[couchman]

I just want FIBA style officiating.
The Olympics refs were a breath of fresh air and there was a lot less referee controversy.
Don’t bail people out anytime they struggle against minor contact.
Don’t reward free throw merchants.
I’d rather watch a 3pt contest than a FT contest.

[itzsoweezee]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer

[CorrectCrusader]

I love modern ball. I just want the refs to stop with the ticky tack shit

[rjv]

op-ed misses those old Syracuse Nationals and Rochester Royals battles.

[Spurminator]

The NBA and its players have never been better. The overall shooting talent in the league has evolved to the point where it is a mathematical imperative that players shoot more threes.

If it was just chucking, the league wouldn't be consistently at its highest 3P% in history. You could move the line out but that would probably just clog the lanes more because it's not like players are going to take a bunch of 24-foot 2-pointers. The Harden/Kobe baiting fouls were much worse 10 years ago, now they're at least sometimes called an offensive foul for initiating contact.

So I don't know, maybe get over it and enjoy the NBA's golden age instead of whining like every previous generation about how the good ol' days were so much better.

[Spurminator]

The past nine seasons are the top nine NBA seasons for league-wide True Shooting %.

"Chuckball" :lol

[K...]

it be fun if there was a "every 10m change the rules of the game" like a height restriction, decreased shot clock, double point dunks, etc. would make coaching and teambuilding way funner but would wreck players stats. maybe even do some house rules every home game. people have short attention spans so you need a hook like this, and it would elevate so many random scrubs which expands marketability. Maybe just for the the second quarter so boomers can come in late for their courtside seats, document the memes on their phone and leave.

[rascal]

Change the 3 point shot to 2.5 points.

[baseline bum]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer

I remember the ASG being must watch in the 80s through the early 00s. Especially loved the 2000 ASG seeing Tim, Kobe, and Kidd on the same team.

[scott]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer

100% and thanks for saying this. The exact same thing has happened it other sports as well as stupid old fucks have been pushed out of front office roles by people who know how to do math. "Analytics has ruined the game!!!" are the screams of middle-school educated boomers who miss Bill Russell scoring over 5'7" white dudes who's full time job is accountant and when a 300 yard passing day was a big deal in the NFL. Times change, if you don't like it you can go back to your Readers Digest.

[z0sa]

100% and thanks for saying this. The exact same thing has happened it other sports as well as stupid old fucks have been pushed out of front office roles by people who know how to do math. "Analytics has ruined the game!!!" are the screams of middle-school educated boomers who miss Bill Russell scoring over 5'7" white dudes who's full time job is accountant and when a 300 yard passing day was a big deal in the NFL. Times change, if you don't like it you can go back to your Readers Digest.

Yep. The talent level has never even been close. The "chuckball" people love to reference is a direct reflection of how shooting 3's (and making them consistently) is a more effective (IE winning) game plan than inside out is.

Now, that doesn't mean the rules can't be changed to reflect a more inside-out style of play -- if that's what the consumer wants. I'm not yet convinced it is.

[scott]

Yep. The talent level has never even been close. The "chuckball" people love to reference is a direct reflection of how shooting 3's (and making them consistently) is a more effective (IE winning) game plan than inside out is.

Now, that doesn't mean the rules can't be changed to reflect a more inside-out style of play -- if that's what the consumer wants. I'm not yet convinced it is.

Yeah, I think consumer wants dunks and threes... and that's what the NBA in it's current form caters to. Dudes who wear Oakleys and have Blue Lives Matters stickers on their Chevy Silverados will reply to this with the latest Nielsen ratings

[benefactor]

:lol Andy
:lol guitardude
:lol boomer trapped in an autistic hobbit suit

[exstatic]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer

The math has always been there, but the absolute explosion of threes happened due to a rule change in 2015, making it illegal to fight through screens dictating that everything becomes a switch. Traditional bigs couldn’t defend in space, leading to easier and better looks from three. The secondary effect was the devaluation and near extinction of said traditional bigs.

[Pauleta14]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer

I agree it has nothing to do with the rules of the ASG, imo it has to do with the personnel.

This generation is way too cynical and doesn't have the same competitive mindset/culture. ANT not gaf last season wasn't surprising for ex

All they want is the bag and they forget the fans are the reason they're getting it. MJ's era prided itself for showing up for every game when they dgaf now.

What made past ASG competitive was the players's competitiveness

[Pauleta14]

The past nine seasons are the top nine NBA seasons for league-wide True Shooting %.

"Chuckball" :lol

Not surprising considering nobody defends anymore.

Spurs have a dude who scored 50pts (off the bench :lol) in the Gleague

[GAustex]

I thought the NBA more compelling a watch when the game was played closer to the basket.
Big dudes pushing and jostling made for a good watch. Jorden and Iverson and similar shaking and baking to pull up jumpers. Duncan working the low post.
The problem with this style was it was impossible to referee and there were too many complaints about biased refereeing.
Calling things tighter changed the game and now we have at least a generation of dead eye 3 point shooters which adds to the less desirable spectacle-in my opinion.
Anyway I do not watch as much pretty much aligned with Timmy’s retirement.

[ismael-robert]

Make dunks 4pts

[Splits]

Have the basket move from side to side like at the arcade, the closer you are the easier it is to judge where the basket will be when the ball arrives.

[KobesAchilles]

The NBA is in a weird spot bc financially it’s the best it has ever been. However, today’s NBA has as many issues as the 1970s NBA (just different issues). I guess as long as the money is there nobody is really going to complain too much from a league standpoint. But I see the NBA being taken over by baseball in the near future and being regulated to the 4th American sport (pro and college football being 1 and 2).

But is has 3 major issues as far as I’m concerned

First is that the players give zero effs about the regular season

Second is that players are sitting out games for no reason and pretty soon 100 million a year players are going to be resting back to back games and shit. Embiid is making 70 a year (?) and he’s already resting.

And lastly there’s too much money for the players to actually give a fuck about rivalries and any other shit. It takes the tribalism out of it. They’re too much about themselves and not enough about the team. Hell Zion cares so much for his teammates that he can’t even put down his double quarter pounder to pick up their calls. It’s also why the all star game will be canceled after this season. They make too much to even care about playing the game. And yes it was competitive until like 2010ish. I mean Kobe broke Wades nose in the game (or vice versa I forget) playing defense.

The players being pussys who can’t handle physical play and shoot a buncha threes is far down the totem pole as far as I’m concerned.

[baseline bum]

100% and thanks for saying this. The exact same thing has happened it other sports as well as stupid old fucks have been pushed out of front office roles by people who know how to do math. "Analytics has ruined the game!!!" are the screams of middle-school educated boomers who miss Bill Russell scoring over 5'7" white dudes who's full time job is accountant and when a 300 yard passing day was a big deal in the NFL. Times change, if you don't like it you can go back to your Readers Digest.

Only thing that irks me about the modern game is how unwatchable the All Star game has become. Though I get it, there's no money in that shit and players want to rest in the middle of a long season and not risk injury playing at 70% intensity like in the olden days of the 80s-00s.

[ismael-robert]

Make dunks three points all problem solved teams will start working to get the easy 100% bucket in the middle

[ismael-robert]

Well easy as in percentage but devising plays to get dunks in the NBA and get through an entire defense is probably the hardest shot which is why it should be worth as much or more than three

[ismael-robert]

And that's one of the big debates nowadays you always hear announcer saying do you prefer slam dunks or threes

[tim_duncan_fan]

I’m glad you got that out of your chest.

Pop for the longest time didn’t like chucking 3pts. But it caught up to him. The league average % for 2pts is 45%, while 3pts is 39%. At 10 attempts it’s 9 pts < 11.5 pts. Easily you take the 3! So unless you remove the 3pt, which would clog the lanes. I doubt Wemby’s body type could handle that. I think it favors Wemby to play in this era, and he’s our guy. So I’m not complaining.

Sorry if someone has made this point already:

If the numbers you provided are correct, threes are basically 6% more difficult than twos, but they give 50% more points.

That math ain't mathing.

I say extend the 3 point arc. Move that shit out to 29.6 feet.

[Bill_Brasky]

Its an easy solution. Cap the number of 3s a team can take in a game. Somewhere in the 30-40 range. Once youve used them, you don't get any more. That will make it to where you have to be strategic about who is taking them and when they are taking them.

Last 5 minutes and OT, shoot as many 3s as you want, to still bring maximum excitement.

[Bill_Brasky]

And that's one of the big debates nowadays you always hear announcer saying do you prefer slam dunks or threes

I prefer making rules to where chucking the ball from 25 feet early in the shot clock is a bad shot that hurts your team.

[scott]

Its an easy solution. Cap the number of 3s a team can take in a game. Somewhere in the 30-40 range. Once youve used them, you don't get any more. That will make it to where you have to be strategic about who is taking them and when they are taking them.

Last 5 minutes and OT, shoot as many 3s as you want, to still bring maximum excitement.

It's a solution, but too complicated and confusing for me, having to have a big "3PA" counter so that the players, coaches, refs and fans have to follow along. I think extending the 3p line or eliminating corner 3s is the answer.

[lefty]

OK GRANDPA

[lefty]

Not surprising considering nobody defends anymore.

Spurs have a dude who scored 50pts (off the bench :lol) in the Gleague

:lol thinking they played defense in the 90s

[Pauleta14]

:lol thinking they played defense in the 90s

They didn't need as much bc they were allowed to be physical, you never saw guards having their ways in the paint and scoring 30pts was actually a feat. All that without the advance medicine, the uncomfortable charters and cheap hotels, junks foods daily and no minutes/games restrictions.

Nowadays, anybody can score 30pts, has a dev coach, nutritionist, luxurious hotels/travels and rare are those even aiming for 82 games

And criticizing this era doesn't mean another was PERFECT

[Bill_Brasky]

It's a solution, but too complicated and confusing for me, having to have a big "3PA" counter so that the players, coaches, refs and fans have to follow along. I think extending the 3p line or eliminating corner 3s is the answer.

Really? Counting confuses you? We can count the score but we cant count shots taken?

[scott]

Really? Counting confuses you? We can count the score but we cant count shots taken?

It would be confusing to the casual fan. "Wait, that shot was worth 3 points before, but now it's worth two? But in 10 seconds it's worth 3 again?"

Pretty easy to see that. Maybe we should just make it like MTV Rock N Jock with a 25 foot rim? Or if you shoot a FT with your eyes closed it's worth double? Or if Jeremy Sochan can make more than 30% of his threes, then all the previously made threes retroactively count for 4 points? Or Steph Curry's threes only count for 2 because he's so good?

[ambchang]

https://thesportjournal.org/article/strategically-driven-rule-changes-in-nba-causes-and-consequences/

Haven’t read the entire thing yet and I don’t agree with some of the points in the article / never heard of some of the background details so I can’t verify how true they are.

That said, relevant to this topic and essentially clearly support that rules changes and the subsequent emphasis in training in outside shooting led to the explosion of three point shooters, and not some odd genetic mutations in the human bodies over the last 20 years that somehow allowed shooters to make these ridiculous shots.

[Bill_Brasky]

It would be confusing to the casual fan. "Wait, that shot was worth 3 points before, but now it's worth two? But in 10 seconds it's worth 3 again?"

Pretty easy to see that. Maybe we should just make it like MTV Rock N Jock with a 25 foot rim? Or if you shoot a FT with your eyes closed it's worth double? Or if Jeremy Sochan can make more than 30% of his threes, then all the previously made threes retroactively count for 4 points? Or Steph Curry's threes only count for 2 because he's so good?

It's not confusing at all actually. You literally just count the number of shots.

If you're going to bitch about the league being too much 3 pt chucking, and then someone is going to offer up possible solutions and rule changes to fix it, if your response is "that is too confusing! Then we would have to learn a new rule or 2!" Then you're just being disengenuous at that point.

[twodeep]

I am fine with the shooting bring back defense and some physicality to the game let them fight through screens something. I don't mean bring back the 80's either there is in between of what they have now and what we had before it can be accomplish with rule changes and enforcing rules on the book.

[scott]

It's not confusing at all actually. You literally just count the number of shots.

If you're going to bitch about the league being too much 3 pt chucking, and then someone is going to offer up possible solutions and rule changes to fix it, if your response is "that is too confusing! Then we would have to learn a new rule or 2!" Then you're just being disengenuous at that point.

I'm not the one who was bitching about this, tbqh :lol

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I know this is just some boomer whining shit, but the claim that the all star game was ever competitive is just laughable and makes me wonder if you actually watch the nba outside of the spurs.

You guys can blame the rules all you want, but the play style these days is dictated by math. Smarter prime are running nba teams now and they are maximizing advantages and eliminating non competitive aspects of traditional nba play. It has nothing to do with being “soft” you geezer
yeah. fuck analytics. also, it's time to move back the 3 point line, thereby eliminating the corner three in the process. It is too easy of a jumpshot and shouldn't be worth more than a layup.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

also,

I hate false revisionist history.

If Allen misses the shot, the Spurs rebound and make a free throw and go on to win, the Spurs don't really come close to winning or making the Finals in 2014. The Spurs' 2013 loss was the inspiration for their 2014 revenge tour run. It's likely that Tim Duncan retires as the 5-0 Finals champion and Finals MVP at that point after winning in Miami in 2013, honestly. The Kawhi-led Spurs are still competitive in the West, but with Duncan done and fulfilled and Parker/Ginobili fulfilled and taking backseat roles after many tough playoff outs before that, it's unlikely the Spurs are good enough to beat OKC, GSW, or even LAC in 2015 or beyond.

Your 2014 Finals almost certainly ends up being Miami vs. OKC part two, but OKC is slightly worse this time (no Harden) and Miami is ultra pissed over losing close in 2013, so the Heatles likely beat OKC again in 2014 and LeBron stays in Miami for at least another year. The OKC/GSW rivalry still dominates the West after that, but Miami sort of has to rebuild given the decline of Bosh and to an extent Wade, which is hard on their salary cap, so it's possible LeBron and the Heat lose to the Warriors in 2015 in this timeline (remember, OKC went 47-35 but missed the playoffs due to Durant's injury) and perhaps at that point LeBron realizes Miami's supporting cast is too old and injured and he does end up going back to Cleveland, and potentially the actual timeline essentially continues from there.

[TDMVPDPOY]

either move back the 3pt line another 1metre , if they continue to chuck up 3s which doesnt solve the problem, remove it and have a star 2 metres further back for 3pts...now if they continue to chuck on those star locations?? switch the tv off...

[Obstructed_View]

What makes NBA basketball unwatchable is the terrible officiating. 20 years ago they were the best officials in sports. Now you can't call an out of bounds wrong to avoid calling a foul because they can review it. Then nobody knows what a block or a charge is so a guy can slide under someone going in for a dunk, take contact on his shoulder, fall down and they call it a charge. I'dcoach my guys to stand out there and shoot from 25 feet as well than risk injury from that shit.

[scott]

Having two technical fouls reversed, on the same play, is a pretty good indicator of the state of NBA officiating these days :lol

[lefty]

What makes NBA basketball unwatchable is the terrible officiating. 20 years ago they were the best officials in sports. Now you can't call an out of bounds wrong to avoid calling a foul because they can review it. Then nobody knows what a block or a charge is so a guy can slide under someone going in for a dunk, take contact on his shoulder, fall down and they call it a charge. I'dcoach my guys to stand out there and shoot from 25 feet as well than risk injury from that shit.
Yes we all remember the great Dick Bavetta, Tim Donaghy and Danny Crawford

[Pauleta14]

either move back the 3pt line another 1metre , if they continue to chuck up 3s which doesnt solve the problem, remove it and have a star 2 metres further back for 3pts...now if they continue to chuck on those star locations?? switch the tv off...

Just take the 3pt line away. Period

Scoring in the paint with immediately become the go to move

[exstatic]

Just take the 3pt line away. Period

Scoring in the paint with immediately become the go to move

Scoring in the paint vanishes, as no one cares about guarding shooters, because there is no 50% (3p vs. 2p) penalty for not doing so.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes we all remember the great Dick Bavetta, Tim Donaghy and Danny Crawford
All a thousand times better than every official working today.

[Obstructed_View]

Just take the 3pt line away. Period

Scoring in the paint with immediately become the go to move
Not if someone can just stand underneath someone in the air and theatrically fall on the ground and be rewarded with taking a charge. The NBA is encouraging awkward, injury-inducing collisions in the paint and discouraging guys who slash to the rim.

Make any remotely questionable contact a blocking foul. You'll see inside scoring come back.

[exstatic]

All a thousand times better than every official working today.

All the older refs controlled by David Stern, via the referee travel gate scandal. Anyone remember two playoff series against Dallas, and consecutive game ones where the Mavs shot 50 and 49 FTAs?

[Pauleta14]

Scoring in the paint vanishes, as no one cares about guarding shooters, because there is no 50% (3p vs. 2p) penalty for not doing so.

Taking away this "penalty" can change players's behavior imo, Big men game will again be major (fundamentals will come back) and talented shooters will always have the ability to make the diff on the perimeter.



Not if someone can just stand underneath someone in the air and theatrically fall on the ground and be rewarded with taking a charge. The NBA is encouraging awkward, injury-inducing collisions in the paint and discouraging guys who slash to the rim.

Make any remotely questionable contact a blocking foul. You'll see inside scoring come back.

Obviously the way refs call the game will always be the main issue, whatever rule change happens.

But right now the 3pt has become a way of "cheating" the game and aviding duels and attacking the basket, It makes it easier for more ppl to shine or just play in the NBA. We need to make it difficult again.

I always take the ex of Malachi Flynn who scored 50pts, (off the bench!) ... and couldn't find a contract last summer.

[exstatic]

Taking away this "penalty" can change players's behavior imo, Big men game will again be major (fundamentals will come back) and talented shooters will always have the ability to make the diff on the perimeter.




Obviously the way refs call the game will always be the main issue, whatever rule change happens.

But right now the 3pt has become a way of "cheating" the game and aviding duels and attacking the basket, It makes it easier for more ppl to shine or just play in the NBA. We need to make it difficult again.

I always take the ex of Malachi Flynn who scored 50pts, (off the bench!) ... and couldn't find a contract last summer.

If there is no 50% bonus, there’s zero reason to shoot any shot beyond 15 feet. The percentage of makes is too low. You’d be looking at WWE in the paint, and 70-65 final scores.

[baseline bum]

also,

I hate false revisionist history.

If Allen misses the shot, the Spurs rebound and make a free throw and go on to win, the Spurs don't really come close to winning or making the Finals in 2014. The Spurs' 2013 loss was the inspiration for their 2014 revenge tour run. It's likely that Tim Duncan retires as the 5-0 Finals champion and Finals MVP at that point after winning in Miami in 2013, honestly. The Kawhi-led Spurs are still competitive in the West, but with Duncan done and fulfilled and Parker/Ginobili fulfilled and taking backseat roles after many tough playoff outs before that, it's unlikely the Spurs are good enough to beat OKC, GSW, or even LAC in 2015 or beyond.

Your 2014 Finals almost certainly ends up being Miami vs. OKC part two, but OKC is slightly worse this time (no Harden) and Miami is ultra pissed over losing close in 2013, so the Heatles likely beat OKC again in 2014 and LeBron stays in Miami for at least another year. The OKC/GSW rivalry still dominates the West after that, but Miami sort of has to rebuild given the decline of Bosh and to an extent Wade, which is hard on their salary cap, so it's possible LeBron and the Heat lose to the Warriors in 2015 in this timeline (remember, OKC went 47-35 but missed the playoffs due to Durant's injury) and perhaps at that point LeBron realizes Miami's supporting cast is too old and injured and he does end up going back to Cleveland, and potentially the actual timeline essentially continues from there.

No way he retires that early. Tim literally said he was playing until the wheels fall off and that's exactly what he did, playing until his good knee got hurt and made him a shadow of his former self in 2016. I also think LeBron was out of Miami win or lose in 2014, as there is no way he wasn't livid that the Heat amnestied Mike Miller. LeBron took a paycut so they could sign Miller, not to pad Mickey Arison's bank account. LeBron made it very clear in his prime that he was out the door if you weren't 100% committed to putting a contender around him right then.

[Pauleta14]

If there is no 50% bonus, there’s zero reason to shoot any shot beyond 15 feet. The percentage of makes is too low. You’d be looking at WWE in the paint, and 70-65 final scores.

Same reasons there was before the 3pt line, less crowded areas and incentive on talent

It's not realistic anyways bc the 3pts is entertaining and makes spectacular come backs possible.

Ultimately it's the way refs call fouls that need to change, they need to start calling travels, carrying and stop calling tic-tac fouls

[ambchang]

Yes we all remember the great Dick Bavetta, Tim Donaghy and Danny Crawford

Danny Crawford was great. You’re thinking Joey Crawford.

[ambchang]

There nba created the environment on purpose because there is a larger pool of 6’7” than there is for 7’ players. The league is a star-driven league and the more stars the more mech it sells. It’s much easier to create an environment where there are a bunch of shooters than there are agile and powerful inside players.

[Tyronn Lue]

No way he retires that early. Tim literally said he was playing until the wheels fall off and that's exactly what he did, playing until his good knee got hurt and made him a shadow of his former self in 2016. I also think LeBron was out of Miami win or lose in 2014, as there is no way he wasn't livid that the Heat amnestied Mike Miller. LeBron took a paycut so they could sign Miller, not to pad Mickey Arison's bank account. LeBron made it very clear in his prime that he was out the door if you weren't 100% committed to putting a contender around him right then.
Weird how some think an NBA player hopes to ride into the sunset after a ring, like they are ready to quit any day, just need that ring. They will play as long as they can, it's a lot of money and a lot of fun. When most retire all they do is sit around and talk about basketball. If anything the ring fuels them to keep going. I guess Robinson's retirement coming off a championship is viewed as the right way to retire, but I believe he would have gone another year if he could.

[baseline bum]

Weird how some think an NBA player hopes to ride into the sunset after a ring, like they are ready to quit any day, just need that ring. They will play as long as they can, it's a lot of money and a lot of fun. When most retire all they do is sit around and talk about basketball. If anything the ring fuels them to keep going. I guess Robinson's retirement coming off a championship is viewed as the right way to retire, but I believe he would have gone another year if he could.

Yeah David retired not because of the ring but because of his back. Thankfully he had a pretty healthy run in 02-03 but I remember he had to miss the first two games against LA in the 02 playoffs because he couldn't feel his legs. Like they said in Moneyball, you keep playing the kid's game until you're told you cannot play anymore. I really hope CP3 can avoid knee or hamstring injuries so he can go another year or two because even at 40% of what he was in New Orleans he's still a hell of a player.

[scott]

Scoring in the paint vanishes, as no one cares about guarding shooters, because there is no 50% (3p vs. 2p) penalty for not doing so.

Absolutely. It would be atrocious. All spacing would disappear, and defenses would just camp the perimeter of the key. Then we'd need some other new illegal defense rule to try and correct this, and soon enough we'll have something that doesn't even resemble basketball. Veccenie had a good conversation about this the other day and how even removing the corner 3 would destroy spacing.

[exstatic]

Absolutely. It would be atrocious. All spacing would disappear, and defenses would just camp the perimeter of the key. Then we'd need some other new illegal defense rule to try and correct this, and soon enough we'll have something that doesn't even resemble basketball. Veccenie had a good conversation about this the other day and how even removing the corner 3 would destroy spacing.

I listened to one pod that said you’d never see another dunk if that happened. Just think about how much more ground defenders cover now, basically because they have to.

[scott]

I listened to one pod that said you’d never see another dunk if that happened. Just think about how much more ground defenders cover now, basically because they have to.

Vecenie through out a good suggestion... that the NBA needs to widen the court and eliminate the 22' corner 3 that way - you make it 23'9" just like the rest of the line. Not only would it make that shot more difficult, but it would simultaneously improve overall spacing. I like this idea a lot. Stadium owners probably less so (I doubt they're excited to lose a row of expensive seats)

[John B]

Vecenie through out a good suggestion... that the NBA needs to widen the court and eliminate the 22' corner 3 that way - you make it 23'9" just like the rest of the line. Not only would it make that shot more difficult, but it would simultaneously improve overall spacing. I like this idea a lot. Stadium owners probably less so (I doubt they're excited to lose a row of expensive seats)

That affects Wemby closing 3pt and protecting the rim. Call it bias, but the current system favors Wemby’s skills so why fix?? :lol

[tonight...you]

Vecenie through out a good suggestion... that the NBA needs to widen the court and eliminate the 22' corner 3 that way - you make it 23'9" just like the rest of the line. Not only would it make that shot more difficult, but it would simultaneously improve overall spacing. I like this idea a lot. Stadium owners probably less so (I doubt they're excited to lose a row of expensive seats)
That would make for a lot of tip-toe shots at the corners.
Sean Elliott! We need help with this one!

[Tyronn Lue]

Vecenie through out a good suggestion... that the NBA needs to widen the court and eliminate the 22' corner 3 that way - you make it 23'9" just like the rest of the line. Not only would it make that shot more difficult, but it would simultaneously improve overall spacing. I like this idea a lot. Stadium owners probably less so (I doubt they're excited to lose a row of expensive seats)
They'd lose a row of cheap seats. The 1st row would still be the 1st row, and prices would probably change to reflect it all the way up.

[Tyronn Lue]

That affects Wemby closing 3pt and protecting the rim. Call it bias, but the current system favors Wemby’s skills so why fix?? :lol
NBA is just another large corporation. They will do whatever they can to maximize returns. Back in the day they even changed the ball for a bit.

[scott]

They'd lose a row of cheap seats. The 1st row would still be the 1st row, and prices would probably change to reflect it all the way up.

They'd lose the last row of the lower level before physical concrete structure begins to elevate the seats. Those are still expensive seats. They aren't going to rebuild the entire stadium to accommodate a wider court :lol

[ChumpDumper]

I had fun watching the NBA this Christmas.

[Fireball]

I had fun watching the NBA this Christmas.

This!

[GAustex]

Did not watch a minute

[exstatic]

Did not watch a minute

Just curious why you have 6400+ posts in 6 years on an NBA related forum when you clearly hate the NBA and everything it represents. That’s like 1000+ a year, more than two a day. Is it really important for you to come in here repeatedly and tell us that you don’t like the NBA?

[Leetonidas]

Just curious why you have 6400+ posts in 6 years on an NBA related forum when you clearly hate the NBA and everything it represents. That’s like 1000+ a year, more than two a day. Is it really important for you to come in here repeatedly and tell us that you don’t like the NBA?

He's one of those weird losers that loves to post political bullshit on a basketball forum

[LeBowen]

He's one of those weird losers that loves to post political bullshit on a basketball forum

Like once a month I open the politics subforum...just hell no. I can't believe some of those people are actual human beings. That subforum needs to be nuked and any kind of politics talk needs to be banned from a sports forum.

[lefty]

Danny Crawford was great. You’re thinking Joey Crawford.
no I’m thinking danny crawford, the black ref with a mustache

Joey was actually a good referee, he just hated Timmy

[GAustex]

He's one of those weird losers that loves to post political bullshit on a basketball forum

You lost bitch

[Leetonidas]

:lol see what I mean? Guy has nothing going for him in life and thinks politics are a team sport

[GAustex]

Just curious why you have 6400+ posts in 6 years on an NBA related forum when you clearly hate the NBA and everything it represents. That’s like 1000+ a year, more than two a day. Is it really important for you to come in here repeatedly and tell us that you don’t like the NBA?

Lots of reason for me to not watch

Popabitch sucks fuck him

Spurs suck and play stupid basketball

The style of play in NBA is not a good watch but I stipulate that is my opinion

I think naturally as one gets older things like devoted fandom decreases or it can

I was a Spurs fan before most here were born so I think I have earned voicing my opinion and I thank the owners and mods for the leniency

[GAustex]

:lol see what I mean? Guy has nothing going for him in life and thinks politics are a team sport

You mad I can tell
Cry for me you liberal bitch

[GAustex]

Just curious why you have 6400+ posts in 6 years on an NBA related forum when you clearly hate the NBA and everything it represents. That’s like 1000+ a year, more than two a day. Is it really important for you to come in here repeatedly and tell us that you don’t like the NBA?

Oh I am not sure where the post counter thing came from but I have been posting far longer than 6 years

[tim_duncan_fan]

:lol see what I mean? Guy has nothing going for him in life and thinks politics are a team sport

I don't know why TimVP wants these 4chan posters here. They don't even like people with his skin color.

[ambchang]

no I’m thinking danny crawford, the black ref with a mustache

Joey was actually a good referee, he just hated Timmy

Joey had a gigantic ego. I thought I read somewhere he had a notable impact, statistically, in the road team winning.

Danny Crawford was a decent ref, what beef did you have with him?

[lebomb]

AGREED!!! 100%

I hate the NBA now. I have not made it through 1/2 of a game all season. WTF is going on now? Houston vs Cleveland last night. Teams combined for 31/95 3pt shots. What in the hell? This is straight up chuck it, and chuck it some more basketball. No friggen defense, no looking for a good shot, just run down the court and shoot dat mufawkuh!

Something has to change.

[BatManu20]

Agree that it's definitely a flawed product, but it's not terrible like many are making it out to be. I do miss skilled back-to-the-basket bigs though, wish we had more of those. And the guy who's going to win MVP this year is a notorious foul-baiter which sucks. Great player nonetheless who's having a historical season (literally on pace to have a top-3 season all-time for a SG), but watching guys like him, Trae Young, Harden, etc. shoot a million FT's because they bait for fouls isn't a particularly fun product to watch. But overall the game is more skilled and faster paced than it's ever been.

[lefty]

The only back to the basket big who were watchable were Hakeem, McHale and to a lesser degree Duncan
Every other big wasn’t
Shaq was juat bullying his way to the hoop, Barkley was a ball stopper, Kareem looked goofy ZAF and would shoot a sky hook 90% of the time

Nah today’s bigs are more skilled and fun to watch

[Mr. Body]

The only back to the basket big who were watchable were Hakeem, McHale and to a lesser degree Duncan
Every other big wasn’t
Shaq was juat bullying his way to the hoop, Barkley was a ball stopper, Kareem looked goofy ZAF and would shoot a sky hook 90% of the time

Nah today’s bigs are more skilled and fun to watch

Only Jokic, who is great back to the basket. Embiid just flops and falls down all the time. What other bigs are there?

[Pauleta14]

Only Jokic, who is great back to the basket. Embiid just flops and falls down all the time. What other bigs are there?

Sabonis is super technical

[lebomb]

What the heck? I’m not talkin bigs. I’m talkin chucking tha shiat with no one down or under the rim. I’m talkin fast break 3 pt shots. I’m talkin no mid range easier shot basketball. It’s a lot of bad shooters taking ill advised 3pt shots actin like the are all Steph Curry. This trash basketball has to stop. The NBA is losing fans. It’s fact! Ratings are down big time.

[lebomb]

95 3pt attempts in a game?:lmao

[scott]

The 3PA has almost perfectly displaced long 2s. The league is generally taking just as many close shots as it always has.

Is watching guys shoot 19 footers instead of 23 footers somehow better?

It's all just a function of math. When you make a slightly harder shot worth 50% more points, teams will begin to gravitate towards those shots as the odds of making them approach the odds of making the "easier" shot.

As many have pointed out... the key is just to let defenders defend on the perimeter.

https://i.imgur.com/XA3FhzC.png

[scott]

This random dude on Reddit (who I promise is not me) did a really nice breakdown of it (where I stole the chart above from)

https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/1i2a8bo/we_killed_the_long_two_should_we_feel_bad_oc/

[z0sa]

Defenders are simply handicapped nowadays on the perimeter. Said it a few days ago - there's no such thing as a legal defense against skilled ball-handlers anymore. They WILL get a foot or shoulder past yours unless you foul and/or the ref swallows their whistle.

Let's see a return of some hand-checking and bumping out on the perimeter, especially if a screen is involved. Anything outside the 3 should be looked at with the concept of letting players play. Not everyone can be fucking Iverson for fucks sake. It's the same thing all day now where every "star" backs the ball up to the logo and just rushes at you because you can't bump them at all, be it 1 on 1 or dare I say, when their 7fter is basically laying your ass out every time down.

All these 3's are too much, though. The game is broken in its current state, at least, for me it is.

In less than 20 years, games have gone from defensive stalwarts holding teams to the 90s and even 80s on a nightly basis to even the worst teams scoring well over 100 points every single game. It's "skill creep" if you will.

2 pointers keep games closer and encourage a more traditional and - at least historically speaking - more popular brand of basketball. I think eliminating the corner 3 would do the League a world of good, in all honesty. If guys want to bomb from the logo, go for it. There's just no way to recover to the weak side and guard both the wing and corner 3's on most plays involving a pass out of the restricted area if we're going to let every semi-decent baller in the League enjoy a running start past their defender..

[scott]

^^^ I used to agree with you z0sa that eliminating the corner 3 would be a good idea, but then I listened to some folks smarter than me game it out in regards to what would happen to spacing (long story short, it would not be good). Essentially, no one would ever go to the corners anymore and you'd have a lot more crowded paint areas, perhaps funneling even more offensive to top of the arc 3s. A counter to this was to widen the court and extend the corner 3, which I think makes more sense.

Either way, I think the hand checking and perimeter D is still the answer.

[ambchang]

The 3PA has almost perfectly displaced long 2s. The league is generally taking just as many close shots as it always has.

Is watching guys shoot 19 footers instead of 23 footers somehow better?

It's all just a function of math. When you make a slightly harder shot worth 50% more points, teams will begin to gravitate towards those shots as the odds of making them approach the odds of making the "easier" shot.

As many have pointed out... the key is just to let defenders defend on the perimeter.

https://i.imgur.com/XA3FhzC.png

The league is actually taking more close to the basket shots than ever, just that those shots were usually the results of drives, cuts or putbacks rather than low post moves.

With four or even five shooters on the floor, it is now impossible to defend the paint against drives and that has resulted in so many layups and dunks.

Edit:
I meant close to the basket shots as in layups and dunks types, like within 3 feet of the basket. The percentage of 3-10 footers have decreased as well.

[lefty]

Only Jokic, who is great back to the basket. Embiid just flops and falls down all the time. What other bigs are there?

They actually have a back to the basket game but they are very skilled and don’t ti post up on every possession
:lol acting like not posting up means you are not a “real” center

90s centers :lol

[quentin_compson]

The 3PA has almost perfectly displaced long 2s. The league is generally taking just as many close shots as it always has.

Is watching guys shoot 19 footers instead of 23 footers somehow better?

Exactly! I was about to post something similar. Most of what are now catch and shoot threes used to be catch and shoot midrangers. Do people really find it more appealing to watch players shooting long 2s instead of 3s?

[lebomb]

30/95 3pt shots is the worst basketball one could ever watch. Basically glorified AllStar game where no one cares.

I hate the NBA transformation. It’s unwatchable.

[spurraider21]

30/95 3pt shots is the worst basketball one could ever watch. Basically glorified AllStar game where no one cares.

I hate the NBA transformation. It’s unwatchable.
would you rather watch teams go 5-15 from 3 and then 25-80 from long 2's? is that drastically better?

was it really cool watching KG take 22 footeres but now miserable if the same player takes a 24 foot 3?

to me the more frustrating aspects of the modern NBA are the foul-baiting stuff. the league has clamped down on it some, but its still there. they got better at it 2nd half of last year. basically nba games should be called like playoff games. they also should enforce moving screens a lot more.

i dont think the product is that bad, i just think accessibility is very poor in the post-cable era

[lebomb]

would you rather watch teams go 5-15 from 3 and then 25-80 from long 2's? is that drastically better?

was it really cool watching KG take 22 footeres but now miserable if the same player takes a 24 foot 3?

to me the more frustrating aspects of the modern NBA are the foul-baiting stuff. the league has clamped down on it some, but its still there. they got better at it 2nd half of last year. basically nba games should be called like playoff games. they also should enforce moving screens a lot more.

i dont think the product is that bad, i just think accessibility is very poor in the post-cable era


I would definitely prefere to watch more 2pt shots taken. The percentage of misses will not be nearly as bad since a 3pt shot is more difficult to take. Also, players will not just CHUCK up 3pt shots back and forth all game long. That is so boring to watch. I am not the only one apparently, because the ratings are down a lot in the NBA. They have been going down for awhile with bad shooters chuckin up 3pt shots all game long.

Honestly it doesnt matter to me. I will watch again when the NBA game has been adjusted........if it ever will. *shrugs*

[Pauleta14]

Interesting convo, worth listening.


https://youtu.be/2rwlZKtrfbc?si=BcgCbGnLxfiqQ0Fu

[Bill_Brasky]

The NBA is the only league where someone will cite a game between like the Bulls and Wizards and be like "look at how many 3s they take, look at how awful this is" and its like yeah man, its 2 shitty ass teams. You know you didn't watch that game, you just looked at the box score. Nobody does this with other sports. Nobody in the NFL is like holy shit did you watch that game between the Saints and Jaguars, it's so awful the game is broken, too many pass attempts. We have to completely change rules because two shitty irrelevant teams put out a bad product!

[Pauleta14]

The NBA is the only league where someone will cite a game between like the Bulls and Wizards and be like "look at how many 3s they take, look at how awful this is" and its like yeah man, its 2 shitty ass teams. You know you didn't watch that game, you just looked at the box score. Nobody does this with other sports. Nobody in the NFL is like holy shit did you watch that game between the Saints and Jaguars, it's so awful the game is broken, too many pass attempts. We have to completely change rules because two shitty irrelevant teams put out a bad product!

I assume you haven't watched the video.

You should

[tim_duncan_fan]

I gotta confess.

I really, really, really miss having a transformational traditional big. The back-to-back logo three shootout era is....you know how when, if you are a millenial or older, you were 9 years old and you called everything you didn't like "gay?" That's kind of the feeling I get from the main playstyles in today's league.


The game is at its best when it's just unathletic-ass Jokic absolutely destroying mofos with layups and passes he couldn't possibly have seen but saw anyway.