Vassell + Johnson + Barnes + Collins = $83,089,026 / 59.1% of the cap

[scott]

Just a subtle reminder about the four highest paid players on our team

Today against the Knicks they combined for 16 pts, 6-16 FG, 1-5 3P, 3-4 FT, 7 Reb, 7 Ast, 2 Blk and a lot of shitty defense.

To Zach Collins credit, at least he didn't even play. (Also, minor shout out to Keldon who was at least a +5 during his 18 minutes. Team leading -13 for Devin).

This sounds like a complaining thread... but it's actually a silver lining thread.

That's $83MM and 59% of the cap currently spent on garbage. That's a lot of salary matching that can be used for actual talent if we stop hording picks and start making deals.

Merry Christmas.

[Jordan Jackson]

This place is going to be a real good time when they eventually over pay Sochan.

If they paid Johnson and Vassell they are going to pay him too.

[onechance87]

Dumb ass front office.Wasting money on a trash roster.

[Mal]

It does not matter, core of Castle, Sochan and Wemby are on rookie deals and need more time.

Shedding those deals wouldnt be a problem

[weebo]

Only one worth keeping is Vassell. He's a nice bench piece.

[onechance87]

Only one worth keeping is Vassell. He's a nice bench piece.

we signed this dude big money to be a star not a bench player.Dude needs to be gone,And whoever signed him needs
to be fired.

[Jordan Jackson]

Only one worth keeping is Vassell. He's a nice bench piece.

The problem is - the only thing other teams would want via trade is him.

[Spurminator]

Didn't like today's small ball lineup and would have liked to see Collins at least get a few minutes in there for some size (first time I've ever felt that way), but hindsight is 20/20.

[KingKev]

I’d go Lavine for Vassell and one of those players above if Chicago was interested. Even give them their FRP back.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh it's a complaining thread.

[Mr. Body]

And?

[scott]

Oh it's a complaining thread.

I recognize you're uncapable of holding any basketball opinion that timvp doesn't write first (shame he died, RIP LJ), so let me spell it out for you:

It's actually a "we're 15-15 and hanging with some very good teams despite getting, at best, inconsistent output for our 4 highest paid players and nearly 60% of our cap space." This is a cause for optimism, because the FO will eventually make moves to upgrade the roster.

This is a much better spot to be in than 15-15 with every part of our roster overachieving or operating at it's ceiling. There is a lot of optimization of this roster still to come, along with a lot of growth from Wemby, Castle and Sochan to come as well. This is a cause for optimism.

Hope that helps, you can go back to whacking it to 2014 Game Grade articles, simp.

[ChumpDumper]

I recognize you're uncapable of holding any basketball opinion that timvp doesn't write first (shame he died, RIP LJ), so let me spell it out for you:

It's actually a "we're 15-15 and hanging with some very good teams despite getting, at best, inconsistent output for our 4 highest paid players and nearly 60% of our cap space." This is a cause for optimism, because the FO will eventually make moves to upgrade the roster.

This is a much better spot to be in than 15-15 with every part of our roster overachieving or operating at it's ceiling. There is a lot of optimization of this roster still to come, along with a lot of growth from Wemby, Castle and Sochan to come as well. This is a cause for optimism.

Hope that helps, you can go back to whacking it to 2014 Game Grade articles, simp.
*incapable

[itzsoweezee]

When you have a superstar on a rookie contract, you need to use that cap space to surround him with elite talent. The spurs have this offseason to get this right. They can contend for a championship if wemby gets the right supporting cast around him. Time to be bold. This conservative pounding the rock stuff is not going to work in 2024.

[scott]

When you have a superstar on a rookie contract, you need to use that cap space to surround him with elite talent. The spurs have this offseason to get this right. They can contend for a championship if wemby gets the right supporting cast around him. Time to be bold. This conservative pounding the rock stuff is not going to work in 2024.

Bingo. The fact that 60% of cap is currently used on these four guys and we’re still competing the way we are is a positive sign. It’s like finishing 4th in a race with half your engine blown out. Imagine if the whole thing were functioning.

[paperboy77]

I bet Trump would fix this shit.

[100%duncan]

Wemby is starting to get pissed. Look at his post-game comments. That kid is a menace :lol The roster is better than last year but is still shit obviously. I mean what the hell is happening?

1. Why do we have 3 useless guards (Branham, Wesley and Cissoko assuming cissoko is a guard cause I couldnt really care less about reviewing his games)?

2. Why are there no capable back-up bigs for Wemby and Sochan? Bassey is nice but has a short leash. Collins is fucking useless. Mamu is nice but has a short leash. Clearly the FO doesn't trust Bass and Mamu, but are also sitting on their assess not getting good enough "vets" that they can play.

3. Our highest paid players are losers, plain and simple. When you've tanked this long enough, I guess it's really hard to play the game the right way.

[mo7888]

It definitely feels like it's time to consolidate assets and picks for a couple players. If we make a couple good moves we can compete in the West this year instead of just striving for the play-in.

[scott]

Wemby is starting to get pissed. Look at his post-game comments.

Yep... I think this is pretty clearly pointed at some of his teammates:

"I don't think it was a game about momentum," said Victor (https://x.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1872010824811974885). "I think it was a game about being dogs. When the clock starts going down, five minutes, three minutes, we let them get some rebounds on us. We let them move us a little too much. So that is what it was about. They didn't win against us because they played better basketball. Not at all.”

[Spurminator]

I would like to hope Wemby was speaking for the whole team including himself, if not, I'd point to the defensive FT rebound he should have gotten at the end of the game.

[cjw]

When you have a superstar on a rookie contract, you need to use that cap space to surround him with elite talent. The spurs have this offseason to get this right. They can contend for a championship if wemby gets the right supporting cast around him. Time to be bold. This conservative pounding the rock stuff is not going to work in 2024.

They have two more offseasons with Wemby on a cheap rookie deal. This coming offseason both Barnes and Collins are expirings that can be used to match salaries in trades.

You don’t have to push your chips all in yet. They need to be canvassing the market for upgrades but shouldn’t panic. None of the contracts are albatrosses.

[Ice009]

Yep... I think this is pretty clearly pointed at some of his teammates:

"I don't think it was a game about momentum," said Victor (https://x.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1872010824811974885). "I think it was a game about being dogs. When the clock starts going down, five minutes, three minutes, we let them get some rebounds on us. We let them move us a little too much. So that is what it was about. They didn't win against us because they played better basketball. Not at all.”

Wow, nice quote from Victor. I wonder if he also (to a lesser degree) includes himself in that quote, though. I know he had a monster game and the Spurs would be screwed without him, but he also could have gotten a rebound or two and the end of the game. Very true quote, though, IMO, he's right. Victor and CP are pretty much the leaders of the team.

[J_Paco]

They have two more offseasons with Wemby on a cheap rookie deal. This coming offseason both Barnes and Collins are expirings that can be used to match salaries in trades.

You don’t have to push your chips all in yet. They need to be canvassing the market for upgrades but shouldn’t panic. None of the contracts are albatrosses.

Right, panicking and going for a 'win-now' move is how you end up trading for an aging DeMar DeRozan in the offseason, while possible losing your cornerstone piece (Fox) in-season.

Internal improvement is happening, yet that still isn't good enough around here. LOL

They need to be thinking long-term still and building a core that can compete with Dallas, Minnesota & Oklahoma City.

I'm all for a move - or moves - that can improve our depth and add more shooting + defense, but not at the cost of future assets yet.

[scott]

Wow, nice quote from Victor. I wonder if he also (to a lesser degree) includes himself in that quote, though. I know he had a monster game and the Spurs would be screwed without him, but he also could have gotten a rebound or two and the end of the game. Very true quote, though, IMO, he's right. Victor and CP are pretty much the leaders of the team.

I'm sure he does. Seems like he holds himself to a pretty high standard and isn't afraid to admit when he needs to do better. Dude has a drive and hunger for greatness that we haven't seen in awhile around here. We're lucky that the skill, natural gifts, and dedication all align with this guy. And some people around here think he is "lazy"

[baseline bum]

Right, panicking and going for a 'win-now' move is how you end up trading for an aging DeMar DeRozan in the offseason, while possible losing your cornerstone piece (Fox) in-season.

Internal improvement is happening, yet that still isn't good enough around here. LOL

They need to be thinking long-term still and building a core that can compete with Dallas, Minnesota & Oklahoma City.

I'm all for a move - or moves - that can improve our depth and add more shooting + defense, but not at the cost of future assets yet.

The internal improvement is all Victor, Jeremy, C-Bass, Champagnie, and Castle. Vassell is starting to slide this year the same way Keldon did last year and between his lazy defense while having the physical tools to be a plus defender and his constant injuries I think it's time to try to convert him into something this team can actually build around.

[Maddog]

Collins and Barnes are expiring next year and with the cap rising Johnson's contract at 2 years past this year looks ok.
Vassel's is starting to look a bit of a problem. Not crazy bad, but the length. Still not crazy if you look at it

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/player/_/year/2027/sort/cap_total

[Vince Carter's ankle]

we signed this dude big money to be a star not a bench player.Dude needs to be gone,And whoever signed him needs
to be fired.
27 mln isn't big by todays standarts and certainly not the amount that star players receive

[CGD]

Heading into the summer I see:

- 37M in expiring contracts (more with Maliki)
- two good players on declining contracts

Not a bad position to be in honestly.

[scott]

Heading into the summer I see:

- 37M in expiring contracts (more with Maliki)
- two good players on declining contracts

Not a bad position to be in honestly.

It's a great position to be in, as is having 60% of your cap being used on the players who aren't actually helping you win. That means we're driving a .500 records after 30 games with only 40% of the cap. When we start optimizing that other 60%, there will be monumental gains.

It's like a factory (Factory A) that produces 100 widgets a day, operating at full capacity with everyone doing their jobs perfectly and the equipment perfectly optimized. Down the street is another factory (Factory B) producing 100 widgets a day, but with a staff that half-asses it, the machinery is not properly maintained, and is operating at a fraction of it's capacity. Factory A is better managed today, but Factory B has more long-term potential. The Spurs are Factory B right now - I'd much rather have that then Factory A at the moment.

[poopbox]

Of those 4 players other teams might only want 2 of them.

[CGD]

It's a great position to be in, as is having 60% of your cap being used on the players who aren't actually helping you win. That means we're driving a .500 records after 30 games with only 40% of the cap. When we start optimizing that other 60%, there will be monumental gains.

It's like a factory (Factory A) that produces 100 widgets a day, operating at full capacity with everyone doing their jobs perfectly and the equipment perfectly optimized. Down the street is another factory (Factory B) producing 100 widgets a day, but with a staff that half-asses it, the machinery is not properly maintained, and is operating at a fraction of it's capacity. Factory A is better managed today, but Factory B has more long-term potential. The Spurs are Factory B right now - I'd much rather have that then Factory A at the moment.

That, and when Factory B finally upgrades its machinery to industry standards it will be in line to also receive decent tax credits for doing do (e.g., 20131 FRPs). The fun part is watching the optimization.

[scott]

That, and when Factory B finally upgrades its machinery to industry standards it will be in line to also receive decent tax credits for doing do (e.g., 20131 FRPs). The fun part is watching the optimization.

Good point!

[scott]

60% Update:

Game 2 since I started this thread: 34 pts on 12-34 (35%) FG, 3-9 3P (33%), 7-8 FT (87.5%), 14 reb, 6 ast, 6 stl, 1 blk, 3 TO, +7

[Seventyniner]

I've been thinking about this, and I wonder if instead of finding a true #2 guy and paying him as such, the Spurs could just try to find three #3 guys instead. Those three might make the same type of money as a normal #2/3/4 but would help make the team more versatile.

The Nuggets are in a similar position (J Murray is overrated imo) but unfortunately overpaid both Murray and MPJ, fucking their cap situation and thus their depth.

I had thought for a while that Vassell could be a #3 guy on a contender, but his recent play has me doubting that take.

[LeBowen]

I've been thinking about this, and I wonder if instead of finding a true #2 guy and paying him as such, the Spurs could just try to find three #3 guys instead. Those three might make the same type of money as a normal #2/3/4 but would help make the team more versatile.

Easy to say in hindsight, but most people didn't want Garland when he was available for a trade. Too late now.
He's one #3 guy.

I agree that Wemby doesn't need a clear cut #2, it's just that it's really hard to find the right targets.
If Castle can develop into a Derrick level player, it would be good enough.

[scott]

I've been thinking about this, and I wonder if instead of finding a true #2 guy and paying him as such, the Spurs could just try to find three #3 guys instead. Those three might make the same type of money as a normal #2/3/4 but would help make the team more versatile.

The Nuggets are in a similar position (J Murray is overrated imo) but unfortunately overpaid both Murray and MPJ, fucking their cap situation and thus their depth.

I had thought for a while that Vassell could be a #3 guy on a contender, but his recent play has me doubting that take.

I think this is definitely worth folks thinking about - Wemby is just that good. Of the champions of the last decade or so, who really had legit 1-2 punches?

2024 Boston - yes (Tatum, Brown)
2023 Nuggets - nope. One mega star and two "#3s" surrounding him (Murray, MPJ)
2022 GSW - nope. One mega star and three "#3s" around him (Klay, Wiggins and Poole:lol)
2021 Bucks - nope. One mega star and two "#3s" around him (Middleton, Jrue)
2020 Lakers - yes (Bron, AD)
2019 Raptors - no. Newphew and a handful of role players (Lowry, early Pascal, FVV, Ibaka, Danny Green)
2018 Warriors - yes. Curry/Durant.
2017 Warriors - yes. Curry/Durant.
2016 Cavs - I would say yes. Bron + Kyrie.
2015 Warriors - I don't think Klay is a #2, so no.
2014 Spurs - an entire team full of #3s? On the short list of title teams without a 20ppg scorer.

[LeBowen]

^
The issue is that those mega stars are also on max deals. Not supermax, but if you're going to have #1+#3+#3 there goes most of your cap unless you can have some discounts.

Tbh, we're too deep into this shit, we just need one solid trade to happen, status quo is killing us for like a year now. :lol

[scott]

^
The issue is that those mega stars are also on max deals. Not supermax, but if you're going to have #1+#3+#3 there goes most of your cap unless you can have some discounts.

Tbh, we're too deep into this shit, we just need one solid trade to happen, status quo is killing us for like a year now. :lol

Good point. It's doable if you get them on rookie max deals (not rookie Supermax), but those guys are gonna cost an arm and a leg to acquire. Honestly it's why guys like DJM got the hauls they did. Maybe Vassell's contract will really pay off when we finally move him to SAC.

[Seventyniner]

^
The issue is that those mega stars are also on max deals. Not supermax, but if you're going to have #1+#3+#3 there goes most of your cap unless you can have some discounts.

Tbh, we're too deep into this shit, we just need one solid trade to happen, status quo is killing us for like a year now. :lol

Yeah, the 1/3/3/3 model only works if the #3 guys each take appreciably less than the max. If you have to max out a second guy you gotta make sure he's a true #2, or even a 1b if your #1 guy isn't in the tier of getting first place MVP votes.

That's another reason I was hoping Vassell could be a #3; he makes enough less than the max that it wouldn't be too hard to fit Wemby, Vassell, and two other guys that make Vassell money into the cap and still leave room for decent depth.

[LeBowen]

Good point. It's doable if you get them on rookie max deals (not rookie Supermax), but those guys are gonna cost an arm and a leg to acquire. Honestly it's why guys like DJM got the hauls they did. Maybe Vassell's contract will really pay off when we finally move him to SAC.

I mentioned McDaniels in that other topic because Minnesota might just be dumb enough to move him because of his shooting slump.
I think they should be the team to watch.
McDaniels, Reid and NAW are all really interesting pieces that would be solid for us.
Especially NAW siince he's a FA and they can't pay him. Arguably the best FA target for us this summer.

[RC_Drunkford]

I mentioned McDaniels in that other topic because Minnesota might just be dumb enough to move him because of his shooting slump.
I think they should be the team to watch.
McDaniels, Reid and NAW are all really interesting pieces that would be solid for us.
Especially NAW siince he's a FA and they can't pay him. Arguably the best FA target for us this summer.

yup had Alexander-Walker on my free agency target list as well. Of course Naz Reid too. They would be huge 3-and-D upgrades to our roster.

Not that I want it, but I think the Spurs might even be interested in DiVincenzo. Wolves want to move him and he's only making 11 million per year. Donte for Tre Jones would work and actually make sense for both teams. I remember Pop really liked him in the draft back in the day. Spurs get some shooting off the bench while the Wolves get a back up point and free up another 10 million for free agency with Tre's expiring.