Anti-American Kerry Calls Our Soldiers Terrorists!

[jochhejaam]

Few politicians sicken me like John Kerry! The man is such an ignoramus!


SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me shift to another point of view, and it comes from another Democrat, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. He takes a very different view. He says basically we should stay the course because, he says, real progress is being made. He said this is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists. He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?
Sen. KERRY: Let me--I--first of all, there is so much more that unites Democrats than divides us. And Democrats have much more in common with each other than they do with George Bush's policy right now. Now Joe Lieberman, I believe, also voted for the resolution which said the president needs to make more clear what he's doing and set out benchmarks, and that the policy hasn't been working. We all believe him when you say, `Stay the course.' That's the president's policy, which hasn't been changing, which is a policy of failure. I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment. You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis. And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...


Ya think maybe they're looking for the terrorists that our killing Iraqi innocents and our soldiers Kerry? You Blathering Idiot!

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005893.php

[MaNuMaNiAc]

right, Kerry is a blathering idiot, and that makes Bush what? mentally retarded?

[JoeChalupa]

He did NOT call our soldiers terrorists.

[xrayzebra]

No? What did he call them. I am not surprised at any dimm-o-craps statement. I
am just surprised it has taken them this long to put down the military. More will
now come to the good Doctors side before long.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

I'm supposed to take this seriously?

[xrayzebra]

:lol

I'm supposed to take this seriously?

And why wouldn't you take it seriously. He said it seriously.

[MannyIsGod]

Because he in no way called our soldiers terrorists. This is pure spin.

[xrayzebra]

Because he in no way called our soldiers terrorists. This is pure spin.


Read the quote, stupid. American soldiers terrorizing women and children
at night.

[Mr. Peabody]

Read the quote, stupid. American soldiers terrorizing women and children
at night.

So is it your belief that soldiers aren't terrorizing people in Iraq or is it your belief that Kerry shouldn't be talking about soldiers terrorizing people in Iraq?

[xrayzebra]

So is it your belief that soldiers aren't terrorizing people in Iraq or is it your belief that Kerry shouldn't be talking about soldiers terrorizing people in Iraq?

It is my belief that you could care less what is said about our military. And
also my belief that you would support any dimm-o-crap saying absolutely
anything.

[Mr. Peabody]

It is my belief that you could care less what is said about our military. And
also my belief that you would support any dimm-o-crap saying absolutely
anything.

Nice attempt to avoid answering the question.

Also, nice use of the term "dimm-o-crap." It really helped you make your point. :rolleyes

[boutons]

Who TF cares what Kerry, MM, and Sheehan say?

They have NO responsibility for running the country, or even the Democratic party.

All this kind of bullshit is brought up exclusively to distract from the woes of the Repubs, who are the only culprits exclusively responsible for the Iraq, etc, fuckups.

[Useruser666]

If you're not with us, you're with Kerry!

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Read the quote, stupid. American soldiers terrorizing women and children
at night.

You are just too stupid read straight without reading into it your neo-con war mongering ideas. Are you that desperate that you need to be so low?

Sure he could've used better words but you now what he meant so stop being an a-hole!

[Bandit2981]

:lol @ this thread

[MannyIsGod]

Who TF cares what Kerry, MM, and Sheehan say?

They have NO responsibility for running the country, or even the Democratic party.

All this kind of bullshit is brought up exclusively to distract from the woes of the Repubs, who are the only culprits exclusively responsible for the Iraq, etc, fuckups.
Well, just to comment on one thing you said...

Kerry does have a good deal of responsibility of running this country and that war in Iraq considering his voting record and the fact he is in the Senate.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Who TF cares what Kerry, MM, and Sheehan say?

They have NO responsibility for running the country, or even the Democratic party.

All this kind of bullshit is brought up exclusively to distract from the woes of the Repubs, who are the only culprits exclusively responsible for the Iraq, etc, fuckups.


You do realize what people do in the Senate, right?

[DarkReign]

Kerry sux.

But he didnt call the soldiers terrorists.

Reading comprehension FTL!

[Oh, Gee!!]

And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women,

Reminds me of that scene in Platoon when Kevin Dillon (aka Johnny Drama) split that Gook's head open with his rifle.

[xrayzebra]

Nice attempt to avoid answering the question.

Also, nice use of the term "dimm-o-crap." It really helped you make your point. :rolleyes

I answered you. Believe me the military is not terrorizing anyone. If you
believe that then our local police are terrorizing the citizens when they
raid dopers or serving a warrant. You will defend any dimm-o-crap on
any subject on anything they may say. They have a real problem within
their own party, if you can call it that. Liberman maybe the only truly
Democrat left their party. Live in ignorance.

[JoeChalupa]

I answered you. Believe me the military is not terrorizing anyone. If you
believe that then our local police are terrorizing the citizens when they
raid dopers or serving a warrant. You will defend any dimm-o-crap on
any subject on anything they may say. They have a real problem within
their own party, if you can call it that. Liberman maybe the only truly
Democrat left their party. Live in ignorance.

Well...here we go again.

If you don't believe that our great military, and yes I do believe they are great, are NOT a terrorizing prescence then you are fooling yourself.

Read what I'm saying please. When our military is on patrol and searching for terrorists..they ARE a "terrorizing" prescence. NOT terrorists in the way you see it.

Perhaps you don't get what he was trying to say. War is TERROR!

[SA210]

Kerry called pour troops terrorists? :lol

sure, yea, ok

[JoeChalupa]

"Yay though I walk through the valley of evil, I will fear no death. Cuz I'm the meanest motherfucker in the valley."

[boutons]

Kerry is 1/100th of the Senate, is 1/600th of the Congress.

Kerry and his party are marginalized as the minority party in both houses.

The Iraq war is 100% the initiative of WHIG and Repubs.

The planning and execution of the Iraq war is 100% the responsibility of dubya and the people who work for the Executive branch.

Much of the disgusting ballessness of any Dem who voted for the Iraq war can be blamed on the climate of effective, vindictive sliming that the Repugs have created.
Any Congressional dissenter would have been slimed as "soft on terrorism", "weak on national security". The Repubs wanted a rubber-stamp Congress, and they got it. They can't say now the Dems share equal responsibility for the Repub fuckups.

In fact, the Repub's Iraq war:

has not made the USA safer,

has NOT advanced the war on terror,

has proven beyond a doubt that the Repubs are a bunch of lying, incompetent assholes whose Iraq war has materially damaged the USA for NO benefit.

[SA210]

"Yay though I walk through the valley of evil, I will fear no death. Cuz I'm the meanest motherfucker in the valley."Sean Penn

"Casualties of War"
one of the most underrated movies of all time.

[Mr. Peabody]

Believe me the military is not terrorizing anyone. If you
believe that then our local police are terrorizing the citizens when they
raid dopers or serving a warrant.

You will defend any dimm-o-crap on any subject on anything they may say. Live in ignorance.

You're insisting that our military doesn't terrorize anyone and I am the one who lives in ignorance? :lol

[Mr. Peabody]

If you
believe that then our local police are terrorizing the citizens when they
raid dopers or serving a warrant. You will defend any dimm-o-crap on
any subject on anything they may say.

Right, because the only Iraqis who have been affected by this war are the terrorists.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your information from?

[RandomGuy]

Fallacy: Straw Man



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Examples of Straw Man

Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."

"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."

More bad logic from the right. Distortions and misdirection is the only way that conservatives can "think". If jocche REALLY thinks that Kerry thinks our soldiers are on the same level with the terrorists, then he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. IF he is just talking out his ass, well that is also par for the course.

Either way, I can only shake my head at the lack of rationality. :depressed

[xrayzebra]

You're insisting that our military doesn't terrorize anyone and I am the one who lives in ignorance? :lol

absolutely, that is what I am insisting.

[RandomGuy]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW12-07-05.jpg

[xrayzebra]

Fallacy: Straw Man



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Examples of Straw Man

Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."

"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."

More bad logic from the right. Distortions and misdirection is the only way that conservatives can "think". If jocche REALLY thinks that Kerry thinks our soldiers are on the same level with the terrorists, then he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. IF he is just talking out his ass, well that is also par for the course.

Either way, I can only shake my head at the lack of rationality. :depressed

Please don't shake it too hard, it might fall off, naw, it wont, it is stuck too far up your rear end. Like your rationalization.

[RandomGuy]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW02-23-05.jpg

[xrayzebra]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW02-23-05.jpg

Ahhhh, so conservatives can only be racist. Not dimm-o-craps. But I agree
with you to the extent that dimm-o-craps aren't racist, cause they oppose
any and all things that Republicans propose or nominate. Of course, then you have New Orleans and Louisiana. Run by dimm-o-craps and the people of color in New Orleans claiming that no one cared for them because they were people of color. How is that?

[RandomGuy]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW2-26-03.gif

[RandomGuy]

Tom all the way baby.

[nkdlunch]

Few politicians sicken me like John Kerry! The man is such an ignoramus!


SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me shift to another point of view, and it comes from another Democrat, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. He takes a very different view. He says basically we should stay the course because, he says, real progress is being made. He said this is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists. He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?
Sen. KERRY: Let me--I--first of all, there is so much more that unites Democrats than divides us. And Democrats have much more in common with each other than they do with George Bush's policy right now. Now Joe Lieberman, I believe, also voted for the resolution which said the president needs to make more clear what he's doing and set out benchmarks, and that the policy hasn't been working. We all believe him when you say, `Stay the course.' That's the president's policy, which hasn't been changing, which is a policy of failure. I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment. You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis. And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...


Ya think maybe they're looking for the terrorists that our killing Iraqi innocents and our soldiers Kerry? You Blathering Idiot!

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005893.php

:lmao what a moron! terrorizing people doesn't make u a terrorist :lol

[xrayzebra]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW2-26-03.gif

Ahhh yes, the old ignore the facts, just keep pushing the same old
junk. Bush bad, Military bad, the US of A bad, tell everyone that
the war is bad. Ignore 9/11.


Bye the way, do any of you fine folks remember what day this is? Like
Pearl Harbor day. Another day of sorrow. Like 9/11 you all so conveniently
disregard or forget.

[RandomGuy]

You make it toooooo easy. Are you doing it on purpose?

[jochhejaam]

right, Kerry is a blathering idiot, and that makes Bush what? mentally retarded?
Let's try to keep the discussion to the issue at hand if possible.

Why would Kerry degrade or attempt to undermine the troops in the middle of a War, these men and women are putting their lives on the line every day!?
Can anyone offer a rational reason why he would make such a scurrilous statement and what benefit there might be in making it?

Does anyone believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with what he said (other than bouts)?

And he wanted to be Commander in Chief?

[nkdlunch]

Let's try to keep the discussion to the issue at hand if possible.

Why would Kerry degrade or attempt to undermine the troops in the middle of a War, these men and women are putting their lives on the line every day!?
Can anyone offer a rational reason why he would make such a scurrilous statement and what benefit there might be in making it?

Does anyone believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with what he said (other than bouts)?

And he wanted to be Commander in Chief?

Not to defend that Munster looking dude, but he said some Iraqi ppl were being terrorized by US Army. That is a fact. Ppl who terrorize are not necessarily terrorists. Anyone who actually beleives Munster was calling the Army terrorists is got serious mental issues and needs help.

[bigzak25]

Few politicians sicken me like John Kerry! The man is such an ignoramus!


SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me shift to another point of view, and it comes from another Democrat, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. He takes a very different view. He says basically we should stay the course because, he says, real progress is being made. He said this is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists. He says we're in a watershed transformation. What about that?
Sen. KERRY: Let me--I--first of all, there is so much more that unites Democrats than divides us. And Democrats have much more in common with each other than they do with George Bush's policy right now. Now Joe Lieberman, I believe, also voted for the resolution which said the president needs to make more clear what he's doing and set out benchmarks, and that the policy hasn't been working. We all believe him when you say, `Stay the course.' That's the president's policy, which hasn't been changing, which is a policy of failure. I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment. You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis. And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...


Ya think maybe they're looking for the terrorists that our killing Iraqi innocents and our soldiers Kerry? You Blathering Idiot!

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005893.php

Kerry is not Anti-American. He's just a puppet that gets his viewpoints from dust in the wind. He's a good man. But he has no backbone. Thank Goodness he didn't win. 60 million bush supporters vs 59 million bush haters.

Woohoo! Lets do it again in 08! :elephant

[jochhejaam]

All this kind of bullshit is brought up exclusively to distract from the woes of the Repubs, who are the only culprits exclusively responsible for the Iraq, etc, fuckups.
It's more than a distraction and the Republicans didn't bring it up, Kerry did!
If he's got them raping and plundering at homes in the middle of the night okay but they're not, they;re trying to locate and capture/kill enemy combatants before they kill them, anything wrong with that?
Maybe they should knock on the door and ask the lady or man of the house if they're harboring terrorists and move on if the answer is no...?

[SA210]

RandomGuy, :lol

it just continues, i think that's the "ignore" part. :lol

[jochhejaam]

Not to defend that Munster looking dude, but he said some Iraqi ppl were being terrorized by US Army. That is a fact. Ppl who terrorize are not necessarily terrorists.
I intentionally over-emphasized to draw attention to another lame-brained statement by the wannabe C in C Kerry.
Justified war or not our soldiers are laying there lives on the line and we don't need a U.S. Senator making an asinine statement of that nature!

Politicians make lots of foolish statements but that one pisses me off more than most!!

[jochhejaam]

Fallacy: Straw Man



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Examples of Straw Man

Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."

"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."
Everyone know about the strawman, how many times are you going to post this?

More bad logic from the right. Distortions and misdirection is the only way that conservatives can "think". If jocche REALLY thinks that Kerry thinks our soldiers are on the same level with the terrorists, then he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. IF he is just talking out his ass, well that is also par for the course.

Either way, I can only shake my head at the lack of rationality. :depressed
Nice use of ad hominem which you have railed against in the past.

If you had put even a small amount of time attempting to comprehend what it was I was getting at then you wouldn't have had to jump the gun with the strawman crap and the personal attack.

Thanks for putting your critical thinking skills to use!

[gtownspur]

THis is stupid to even give credit to. Random Guy just proved that he believes any bad generalization of the military.

Guess what, the military has killed innocents. Does that mean that they purposely engage in the slaughter of innocents? That's utter idiocy. John kerry has no facts to prove that soldiers and the military have been terrorizing innocent Iraqi's. Unless you count Abu Graib, you already lost the argument. Abu Graib was a terrorist detainee center and if you're easily led to believe that the detainees there are innocent as easliy as you believe the military terrorizes citizens, then you are just that. a moonbat.

Random Guy, you seemed to have sided with Kerry's statement that the military terrorizes innocents. You bring all of these stupid Tom TOmmorow cartoons to illustrate your point of how conservatives are shallow in your beliefs.

let me get this straight.

Cause:You blame the conservatives for using strawmen tactics.

Effect: You take the moral high ground by using Tom Tomorrow comics to boost your point.

Question.

Do you really think you're any better?:lol

Let me see if you can actually have a take on this forum worth debating.

You sympathize with Kerry saying troops use terror tactics. Do you then by the same token call them terrorist?

I'd like to see you awnser that.

[SA210]

The comics show how conservatives lie and how they try to cover up for themselves, spin and change the subject. Dumb things, like when someone says we need to get our troops out of Iraq, all of a sudden "we're" against the troops and "how dare u insult the troops in this time of war" :rolleyes. Because yall know that bs actually works on some ppl.

That's really evil, actually. To defend a bogus war, just make the ppl trying to bring our troops back home look like they are against our troops who are risking their lives for our great country. What a tactic. Talk about spin, talk about actually defending a view, side, argument or whatever u wanna call it with facts. You don't want to talk facts. If we talked about facts, u would spit only the truth and admit that this is a bogus war and we do have a dumb president.

Instead you resort to try and win an arguement by making fun of comics being posted. Just more conservative baloney to take away from what's really going on. Instead of really talking about the bogus war, u wanna talk about something Kerry said, which wasn't bad btw, and u wanna do this because u have nothing else. And the normal response to this would be to talk about my statement on what Kerry said was bad.

This is ridiculous. when Clinton did what he did with Monica, it was "hanging time" for Bill, constantly everyday, just because he got laid. Never let the issue rest. yall wanted his head. :rolleyes. All of a sudden now, when the tables have turned, and really, boy did they turn for something that's actually valid, all i hear is, "Now is not the time to play the blame game".

There's some truth for u. there is a fact for you.

Have some decency for the ppl who have died, and if not for them at least be honest to yourself. This admistration and this dumb president got us into a mess. misled us, lied, yes lied as much as u don't like to hear it, he is a liar, and alot of ppl are dead. We are in bad hands right now. Usually at this time someone would say ,"oh if kerry were pres" whatever... or "Democrats don't even have a plan themselves.." If that's your response, then it further proves my point. Just pure Spin.

Man up, take the responsibility to say the truth. Stop the spin already. THIS administration screwed up. No matter what subtopics derive from politics, this fact still remains.

[gtownspur]

I am going to ignore your post, your full of hate.:princess

[SA210]

Because that is the best u can do.
Otherwise you'd be namecalling or doing what i said you'd do.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I am going to ignore your post, your full of hate.:princess
typical ignorant response

[SA210]

typical ignorant responseOh, don't worry, he's trying to come up with a bs response, just because we criticised him for it. Pure baloney is coming.

[gtownspur]

The comics show how conservatives lie and how they try to cover up for themselves, spin and change the subject. Dumb things, like when someone says we need to get our troops out of Iraq, all of a sudden "we're" against the troops and "how dare u insult the troops in this time of war" :rolleyes. Because yall know that bs actually works on some ppl.

That's just to show how intelectually bankrupt leftist on this board have gotten. We get fun of because we conservatives are accused of using Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh talking points to articulate conservative positions. Yet through out this forum your side has been saying how what kerry has said wasn't deragatory towards troops, yet what he said is so derogatory that he puts them on the same level as terrorist. You then were told that terrororizing is not the same as commiting an act of terrorism because the first term is too broad and doesn't indicate severity like the word "terrorsim". The left on this board then countered with saying that it's ludicrous to suggest that "terrorizing" and "acts of terrorism" aren't one and the same. All of you then get called on it for siding with terrorist, and siding with Kerry's remark, and you get so offensive. You want to say that both the army and the terrorist both commit acts of terror. Yet no matter how adamant you are in your deciet, you could'nt honestly call our troops terrorist. They either are terrorist or they're not. You can't have a shade of gray. But you chose not to clarify your positions. You chose to sling mud at your opponents and hope it sticks, no matter how low you'll get to accomplish victory.

SO now you're stuck defending Kerry's characterization of the troops, and denying the troops are terrorist. Who knows? maybe you all believe both. But you cannot logically defend your beliefs, so then You have Random Guy using A Tom Tomorrow Cartoon using a strawman description of conservatives to attack conservatives, after bitching about conservatives using strawman.

Face it. Your Party is full of sellouts like bill clinton, they sold you bastards for defense votes in 04 and the midterms by supporting the resolution for iraq. They didn't even believe in this war, but they sold out their principles and their followers for fear of losing power. You want to say, that supporting a bogus war is evil? How bout selling out your constituents defending a bogus war, even when you knew it was evil, because you had no backbone. You and your buddies cannot take a stand and tell the public what you really believe. YOu are afraid of the comments of the conservative character of Tom TOmorrow no matter how foolish you might think they are. You're scared of them because you know they have some truth behind it.

Deep down inside you tell yourself that the military is worse than alqueda, but all you do is make cheap allusions to it, and falsely proclaim you support our troops. You can't ever say what you really think because deep down inside you know you're thoughts are way too extreme.

You look right now at your Democrat party and you see sellouts and people who are afraid to speak out. But what you're looking at is your own reflection. You too are sellouts and weakminded.

I dare you. Say it. Take a stand. Say what you really think. Are our troops terrorist, or not?


That's really evil, actually. To defend a bogus war, just make the ppl trying to bring our troops back home look like they are against our troops who are risking their lives for our great country. What a tactic. Talk about spin, talk about actually defending a view, side, argument or whatever u wanna call it with facts. You don't want to talk facts. If we talked about facts, u would spit only the truth and admit that this is a bogus war and we do have a dumb president.

What's evil, is the party who you trusted in not voting against an "imperialistic war resolution", not voting with it's conscience. And what's more evil, is the fact that you will put these sellouts back in power. If you're a person of conviction, you should be against hillary since she's the main reason why your anti war stance has not taken flight. But you know what? Eventually you'll have to sellout and vote for her. YOu're sad, and you know it. I feel sorry for you.


Instead you resort to try and win an arguement by making fun of comics being posted. Just more conservative baloney to take away from what's really going on. Instead of really talking about the bogus war, u wanna talk about something Kerry said, which wasn't bad btw, and u wanna do this because u have nothing else. And the normal response to this would be to talk about my statement on what Kerry said was bad.

IF what's going on is a third rate comic strip, then we conservatives have every reason to be optimistic. If what's really going on is a strawman description of conservatives, who gives a rat's ass.


This is ridiculous. when Clinton did what he did with Monica, it was "hanging time" for Bill, constantly everyday, just because he got laid. Never let the issue rest. yall wanted his head. :rolleyes. All of a sudden now, when the tables have turned, and really, boy did they turn for something that's actually valid, all i hear is, "Now is not the time to play the blame game".

There's some truth for u. there is a fact for you.

Have some decency for the ppl who have died, and if not for them at least be honest to yourself. This admistration and this dumb president got us into a mess. misled us, lied, yes lied as much as u don't like to hear it, he is a liar, and alot of ppl are dead. We are in bad hands right now. Usually at this time someone would say ,"oh if kerry were pres" whatever... or "Democrats don't even have a plan themselves.." If that's your response, then it further proves my point. Just pure Spin.

We hear the "liar" thing all the time. Trust me it fades it's significance. You can't prove he's a liar. But we as hell can prove your party is all talk and no plan. And even if they did, they're to chicken and pussy to put it up to a vote. Their cowards, and they sure as hell glad for your lemming vote. You're their usefull idiot.




Man up, take the responsibility to say the truth. Stop the spin already. THIS administration screwed up. No matter what subtopics derive from politics, this fact still remains.

IF you say i'm blind, then you must first remove the plank from your own eye.
Even if this administration did screw up, they have alot of time to fix this, and they are on the right side in this day and age. The republican party as of the 50's has been on the side of the US. The democrats, were always pro soviet, pro castro, and pro Ayatollah Khomeini.

If america has to fail and be shamed for your party to succeed, then you should go hide and coil into your fetal position because your party won't survive. No spin here, just common sense.

[SA210]

Spin, spin , spin, and to think u actually were happy with that post and actually thought u said something. It's kind of like when everyday the news says Bush made a speech today and they play a clip and u hear the same bs broken record that's full of nothing.

You did spin, Democrats voted to go to war ONLY if it were absolutely necessary as a last resort. Now one thing i will and have always agreed on is back then Dumbya was so popular , only because of 9/11 and his photos with the firemen, Demos didn't want to get against him. I understand that, doesn't make Dumbya right all of a sudden. And what the troops do is what W sent them to do, so stop that spin right there, this baloney, that we either think they r terrorists or not.

the truth is what i was talking about.

[gtownspur]

Spin, spin , spin, and to think u actually were happy with that post and actually thought u said something. It's kind of like when everyday the news says Bush made a speech today and they play a clip and u hear the same bs broken record that's full of nothing.

You did spin, Democrats voted to go to war ONLY if it were absolutely necessary as a last resort. Now one thing i will and have always agreed on is back then Dumbya was so popular , only because of 9/11 and his photos with the firemen, Demos didn't want to get against him. I understand that, doesn't make Dumbya right all of a sudden. And what the troops do is what W sent them to do, so stop that spin right there, this baloney, that we either think they r terrorists or not.

the truth is what i was talking about.

^My, your an idiot. If they did have a problem with the way the resolution for war was used, and if they did intend for it to be used as a last resort, then they should of raised hell back then, rather than waiting like pussies to have the polls sink for the war.

I don't have to spin. the fact is. The Democrats sold out, and you're justifying it. No matter how you look at it.


They sold out iraqi children to "Bush's popularity" and photo ops. Maybe, that justifies it in your world. But you're a sick sad lemming who follows all their propaganda.

[SA210]

Spin, spin, spin

Dumbya, your greatest president ever was the ONE who led this country to war. And that is a fact.

[gtownspur]

Sure did, and your pussy ass democrats, followed like the sleazebags they are.:lmao

[SA210]

And u act like your still in elementary school with all your name calling. how old r u?

[SA210]

so if they r sleazbags for following , what does that make Dumbya?

[gtownspur]

Back then, if bush told the democrats to jump, they'd say how high.

If tom delay told them to sell out the Iraqi children, they said, what price?

If Bush told them to sellout the poor and homeless by giving the rich a tax cut, the democrats said "The tax cut's to small."

All we need is high poll numbers, and we'll have your party discard your sorry self.

[gtownspur]

so if they r sleazbags for following , what does that make Dumbya?


The war pimp, and the democrats his ho's.

[SA210]

Maybe the dems actually wanted to work 2gether because of the tragedy of 9/11. The sleazebags were this administration, to take advantage of that in an evil way to get this country in a bogus war.

[gtownspur]

And u act like your still in elementary school with all your name calling. how old r u?
YOu're such a :baby, this is a sport's forum. nobody here takes you seriously.

[SA210]

The war pimp, and the democrats his ho's.
again, acting childish. when a republican isn't in office after this term, we'll see how much laughing you'll be doing.

[SA210]

YOu're such a :baby, this is a sport's forum. nobody here takes you seriously.
coming from someone with no credibility

[gtownspur]

Maybe the dems actually wanted to work 2gether because of the tragedy of 9/11. The sleazebags were this administration, to take advantage of that in an evil way to get this country in a bogus war.


I thought the democrats were way too smart. how could an "idiot" like Bush fool a bunch of "smart" democrats? C'mon, that wanting to work 2gether stuff is weak.

You truly don't know why. You're just guessing.

[SA210]

like your guessing that Bush isn't a liar?
nah, u know he is, just won't admit it.

[gtownspur]

again, acting childish. when a republican isn't in office after this term, we'll see how much laughing you'll be doing.


I'll be fine, it's a democracy. We'll be back in power, and then another dumb republican will rise again and fool all the smart democrats once again.:lmao

[gtownspur]

like your guessing that Bush isn't a liar?
nah, u know he is, just won't admit it.

WTF?

Ok, i get. Tag! your it! :lol

[SA210]

and u always have to suffer , cuz you'll always be your sorry, low class, hateful self. That's worse.

[gtownspur]

WEll..:tired.

Got to go nap.

Have a good nights rest. Maybe when you wake up, you'll know that this is all a terrible dream, and that George Bush is just an idiot and not someone who fooled and tricked all those smart brainy democrats.

There will be no war, and we'll be speaking arabic and wearing burkas.

[SA210]

nah, i'll pray for you.

[SA210]

WTF?

Ok, i get. Tag! your it! :lol
i make a point, but u spin it again. nuff said.

[smeagol]

What I said on another thread about gtown. Annoying and stupid.

[Vashner]

Spin, spin, spin

Dumbya, your greatest president ever was the ONE who led this country to war. And that is a fact.

That's his job... Commander & Chief...

And if you think GW Was about to let Osama pull off an attack bigger than Pearl and leave nothing for us to blow up in return your wrong.

Of course Al Gore would not of invaded Iraq. He might not of gone into Afganistan. Clinton didn't even bother to visit NYC after the first WTC bombing. Only a few people died so It was no big deal.

9/11 made Pearl look like a cakewalk. In terms of civilian target instead of a navy base and ships.

The president decided Saddam was no long a safe risk. And he was re-elected without WMD found.

Get over it.. Kerry Looses.. .he's done. toast...

Kerry will never be President or Vice President... NEVER!

[RandomGuy]

Everyone know about the strawman, how many times are you going to post this?

As often as you commit this logical fallacy. If you get tired of seeing it, stop doing it. Easy.


Nice use of ad hominem which you have railed against in the past.


Actually my post wasn't quite ad hominem, and if you were more familiar with logic and reasoning, you might know that.


If you had put even a small amount of time attempting to comprehend what it was I was getting at then you wouldn't have had to jump the gun with the strawman crap and the personal attack.

Thanks for putting your critical thinking skills to use!

I know exactly what you are getting at and I find the assertion to be intellectually dishonest.

[JoeChalupa]

Osama been hiden.

[DarkReign]

Gtown, you ruin every thread you touch. You drag every comment thats bias-but-relevant to bias-without-relevance. I have seen "some" of your posts that actually cut the act you portray and you...actually...make....a....point. Youre bias, but so is everyone else. Why do you enjoy elementary ravings and schoolyard arguments?

Seriously, youre board poison and you relish in it.

[DarkReign]

That's his job... Commander & Chief...

And if you think GW Was about to let Osama pull off an attack bigger than Pearl and leave nothing for us to blow up in return your wrong.

Of course Al Gore would not of invaded Iraq. He might not of gone into Afganistan. Clinton didn't even bother to visit NYC after the first WTC bombing. Only a few people died so It was no big deal.

9/11 made Pearl look like a cakewalk. In terms of civilian target instead of a navy base and ships.

The president decided Saddam was no long a safe risk. And he was re-elected without WMD found.

Get over it.. Kerry Looses.. .he's done. toast...

Kerry will never be President or Vice President... NEVER!

You on the other hand...

While Gtown actually attempts at times to qualify his position, youre just a lapdog. A pet, a fucking hack sorry excuse for sheeple.

I have never seen someone so blindly loyal to ANYTHING like you except religious types. Except politics arent religion.

Cattle like you should be lead to the slaughter forcefully.

Nobody cares youre a staunch Conservative....its a free country, youre entitled. The Boutons (explitive laced) and NBADans (liberal-laced) of the world at least try to post facts and references and news items. But youre a condescending prick with little substantive contributions save for your "killer" mullet and an "I <heart> Bush" sign.

I have never ignored anyone on any board. Youre so useless and over-wrought, I could predict your "insight" after a case of beer and a small window in viewership of FoxNews.

"Baaa...Baaaa"

"Think for yourself. Question authority."

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You on the other hand...

While Gtown actually attempts at times to qualify his position, youre just a lapdog. A pet, a fucking hack sorry excuse for sheeple.

I have never seen someone so blindly loyal to ANYTHING like you except religious types. Except politics arent religion.

Cattle like you should be lead to the slaughter forcefully.

Nobody cares youre a staunch Conservative....its a free country, youre entitled. The Boutons (explitive laced) and NBADans (liberal-laced) of the world at least try to post facts and references and news items. But youre a condescending prick with little substantive contributions save for your "killer" mullet and an "I <heart> Bush" sign.

I have never ignored anyone on any board. Youre so useless and over-wrought, I could predict your "insight" after a case of beer and a small window in viewership of FoxNews.

"Baaa...Baaaa"

"Think for yourself. Question authority."
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif

[Useruser666]

Kerry was a terrorist when he was in VN. :lol

[Mr. Peabody]

You on the other hand...

While Gtown actually attempts at times to qualify his position, youre just a lapdog. A pet, a fucking hack sorry excuse for sheeple.

I have never seen someone so blindly loyal to ANYTHING like you except religious types. Except politics arent religion.

Cattle like you should be lead to the slaughter forcefully.

Nobody cares youre a staunch Conservative....its a free country, youre entitled. The Boutons (explitive laced) and NBADans (liberal-laced) of the world at least try to post facts and references and news items. But youre a condescending prick with little substantive contributions save for your "killer" mullet and an "I <heart> Bush" sign.

I have never ignored anyone on any board. Youre so useless and over-wrought, I could predict your "insight" after a case of beer and a small window in viewership of FoxNews."Baaa...Baaaa"

"Think for yourself. Question authority."

:lol

[xrayzebra]

like your guessing that Bush isn't a liar?
nah, u know he is, just won't admit it.

What lies did he tell. You keep saying he is a liar, but never any proof.
Guess you couldn't call Kerry a liar, since he is on both sides of every
issue. Clinton never lied although he just got his law license back for
lying to a court. Burglar didn't lie, just stole documents from the National
Archives. Get real.

[JoeChalupa]

Bush gets a pass on this since he believes his own BS so to him it is not lying.

[SA210]

That's his job... Commander & Chief...

And if you think GW Was about to let Osama pull off an attack bigger than Pearl and leave nothing for us to blow up in return your wrong.

Of course Al Gore would not of invaded Iraq. He might not of gone into Afganistan. Clinton didn't even bother to visit NYC after the first WTC bombing. Only a few people died so It was no big deal.

9/11 made Pearl look like a cakewalk. In terms of civilian target instead of a navy base and ships.

The president decided Saddam was no long a safe risk. And he was re-elected without WMD found.

Get over it.. Kerry Looses.. .he's done. toast...

Kerry will never be President or Vice President... NEVER!
Bullcrap, there yall go again with trying to link Osama to Saddam. Sounds like spin to me. And Kerry or Clinton would have gone into Afganistan. I don't even think u believe he wouldn't. i think your saying that for the sake of the argument.

And so what if Kerry is or isn't prez. The point is Bush is an evil liar and this country is in bad hands right now. The spin continues, and here comes more.....

[SA210]

What lies did he tell. You keep saying he is a liar, but never any proof.
Guess you couldn't call Kerry a liar, since he is on both sides of every
issue. Clinton never lied although he just got his law license back for
lying to a court. Burglar didn't lie, just stole documents from the National
Archives. Get real.
This is that conservative "change the subject and blame others" part.

What did Bush lie about? Does this even deserve a respons? :lol yea, Bush doesn't lie. :rolleyes

This is about Bush, stop bringing up Clinton and Kerry. This country is in bad hands, period. Those hands are Dumbyas.

[xrayzebra]

This is that conservative "change the subject and blame others" part.

What did Bush lie about? Does this even deserve a respons? :lol yea, Bush doesn't lie. :rolleyes

This is about Bush, stop bringing up Clinton and Kerry. This country is in bad hands, period. Those hands are Dumbyas.

No it is about lying. And you all keep bringing it up. But you forget about
the real liars in this country. Does this even deserve a repons (sp) (response).
You tell me. You are the ones making the accusations. I just ask for
facts.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Does this even deserve a repons (sp) (response).[sic]

ray, stop pointing out spelling errors.

[SA210]

Bush lied about a link between Bin Laden and Saddam so that he could fight HIS war. This led to thousands dead and more by the day.

If u need proof on that at this stage, there is no use discussing anything with u.

Gov. Bush even promised that HE and this administration would restore integrity to the White House. this doesn't even need explaining. So spin again, i expect it, Clinton this, Kerry that, liberals this, liberals that,

Bush is the one in power, Bush is the one damaging our country.

[SA210]

ray, stop pointing out spelling errors.
it was a typo, but that's what i expect from him and Gtown, namecalling, or making fun of spelling errors, because that what the conservatives do, change the subject and spin. The error didn't change that Bush is a liar.

[Oh, Gee!!]

it was a typo, but that's what i expect from him and Gtown, namecalling, or making fun of spelling errors, because that what the conservatives do, change the subject and spin. The error didn't change that Bush is a liar.


those two are the last two posters that should give lessons in grammar. if you catch my drift.

[SA210]

yup

[Oh, Gee!!]

yup


yep.

[xrayzebra]

Bush lied about a link between Bin Laden and Saddam so that he could fight HIS war. This led to thousands dead and more by the day.

If u need proof on that at this stage, there is no use discussing anything with u.

Gov. Bush even promised that HE and this administration would restore integrity to the White House. this doesn't even need explaining. So spin again, i expect it, Clinton this, Kerry that, liberals this, liberals that,

Bush is the one in power, Bush is the one damaging our country.

I guess Hillary didn't lie, just Bush.



"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

Or did Hillary Clinton lie too.

[SA210]

keep on trying,

Bush still claims these stupid things.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

Can't you freakin' read!?!? Nowhere does she tie Saddam with 9/11!!

Get your facts straight before trying to blow smoke up my ass. :cuss

[xrayzebra]

Can't you freakin' read!?!? Nowhere does she tie Saddam with 9/11!!

Get your facts straight before trying to blow smoke up my ass. :cuss

Yes I can, can you:

"He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members"

Who blew up the WTC?

[SA210]

^^^ terra :lmao

[SA210]

Yes I can, can you:

"He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members"

Who blew up the WTC?
which are bogus claims that Bush still tries to make us believe even now. And Dick Cheney lying that he never said that, but he's on tape saying that on "Meet the Press".

[xrayzebra]

which are bogus claims that Bush still tries to make us believe even now. And Dick Cheney lying that he never said that, but he's on tape saying that on "Meet the Press".

Ah, then I guess this little missive fits your way of thinking:

"The Daily Kos - the political web site widely read by the party's base - is urging Democrats to move beyond Mrs. Clinton and her husband, declaring: "Shame on the Democratic Party if they ever nominate her" for president.

The scathing editorial, written by Kos contributor "Trifecta," states outright: "More than anything else, I am ashamed of Hillary Clinton."
"When you look dispassionately at some of the things [Bill and Hillary] are capable of, it should leave one very skeptical and concerned about a 'third term' for this pair."

The Kos writer compares Hillary - unfavorably - to President Bush, saying she's an unprincipled opportunist when it comes to key issues while Bush shows leadership in the face of adversity.


"When faced with low poll numbers on his crappy ideas, Bush plods on," the Kos pundit says. "And [he] still gets them passed, pushing his agenda forward."


Meanwhile, Trifecta complains the Clintons "they put their fingers to the wind" and run away from the fight.


The left-wing blast at Hillary also compares her unfavorably to Sen. Joe Lieberman, whose defense of the war last week contrasted sharply with Mrs. Clinton's weaselly claim that she was tricked into voting to give Bush the authority to attack Iraq.


"Holy Joe Lieberman is a true believer in this war," says Trifecta. "He may be scorned, but as idiotic as his views are, I genuinely believe these are his views."

You dimm-o-craps sure have some problems. Wonder if you will ever get
them solved. Cant even standby your past President and her husband. :lol

[Mr. Peabody]

You dimm-o-craps sure have some problems.

"dimm-o-craps" :lol :lol

[xrayzebra]

"dimm-o-craps" :lol :lol

Yep that what they be. dimm-o-craps. Enjoy. :lol
:elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant

[RandomGuy]

Bush hasn't lied?

Did someone seriously say that?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush+lies&btnG=Google+Search

[SA210]

RandomGuy, what is wrong with you? How dare u call our President a liar at a time of war? U must be against the troops. Oh, and btw, how dare u prove Bush is a liar by using facts. That's not fair. Can't u just realize what is really important; Clinton got a blowjob.

[RandomGuy]

THis is stupid to even give credit to. Random Guy just proved that he believes any bad generalization of the military.

Guess what, the military has killed innocents. Does that mean that they purposely engage in the slaughter of innocents? That's utter idiocy. John kerry has no facts to prove that soldiers and the military have been terrorizing innocent Iraqi's. Unless you count Abu Graib, you already lost the argument. Abu Graib was a terrorist detainee center and if you're easily led to believe that the detainees there are innocent as easliy as you believe the military terrorizes citizens, then you are just that. a moonbat.

Random Guy, you seemed to have sided with Kerry's statement that the military terrorizes innocents. You bring all of these stupid Tom TOmmorow cartoons to illustrate your point of how conservatives are shallow in your beliefs.

let me get this straight.

Cause:You blame the conservatives for using strawmen tactics.

Effect: You take the moral high ground by using Tom Tomorrow comics to boost your point.

Question.

Do you really think you're any better?:lol

Let me see if you can actually have a take on this forum worth debating.

You sympathize with Kerry saying troops use terror tactics. Do you then by the same token call them terrorist?

I'd like to see you awnser that.

I would if I took this seriously enough to bother with it. The whole thing is ridiculous and flimsy. I have better things to do.

[RandomGuy]

What lies did he tell. You keep saying he is a liar, but never any proof.
Guess you couldn't call Kerry a liar, since he is on both sides of every
issue. Clinton never lied although he just got his law license back for
lying to a court. Burglar didn't lie, just stole documents from the National
Archives. Get real.

Bush's Great Debate -- With Himself


Borrowing from George W. Bush’s favorite new joke about the Democratic debates, one could say that the Republican Party’s presidential choice is featuring a wide variety of opinions – favoring action on global warming and doing nothing; calling for a balanced federal budget and charting a future of endless deficits; advocating a “humble” foreign policy that decries “nation-building” and running a foreign policy that is arrogant and deeply involved in devising how other countries govern themselves.

The punch-line of that joke would go: And the Republican debate covers the opinions of just one candidate, George W. Bush.

Of course, Bush has used his version of this knee-slapper to mock Democratic Sen. John Kerry for supposedly flip-flopping on issues. But the joke could play as well against Bush, who sold himself to the voters as one thing in 2000 and performed quite differently in office.
----------------
FLIP
Greenhouse Effect
Global warming represented Bush’s first major flip-flop. In a clear campaign promise on September 29, 2000, Bush proposed regulating carbon dioxide as one of "four main pollutants" released into the environment by the burning of fossil fuels at power plants.
FLOP
But two months after taking office, Bush suddenly jettisoned the carbon-dioxide pledge. Bending to the wishes of the energy industry and its lobbyists, Bush pulled the rug out from under his Environmental Protection Agency director, Christie Whitman. She had believed that Bush meant what he said during the campaign and was stunned to learn in March 2001 that the initiative had been scrapped. [For an insider account of Bush’s maneuver from former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, see Ron Suskind’s The Price of Loyalty.]
---------------
FLIP
Bush made an unequivocal pledge not to raid the Social Security trust fund to pay for deficits in other parts of the federal budget. “We’re going to set aside all the payroll taxes for one thing, Social Security,” Bush said in a stump speech four days before the presidential election.
FLOP
Over a little more than three years, however, the balanced-budget promises have gone by the boards. Bush has pulled more than $350 billion out of Social Security surpluses to pay for discretionary government spending. Overall prospects for the future look even bleaker. With record deficits replacing record surpluses and the Baby Boom generation nearing retirement age, the current Social Security surpluses are expected to join the rest of the federal government in a bath of red ink.

-----------
FLIP
Humble No More
Possibly Bush’s most striking departure from his rhetoric as a candidate has been in the area of foreign policy. During the campaign, he called for a “humble” foreign policy and disparaged President Clinton’s interventions to bring stability to international hot spots as fuzzy-headed “nation-building.”

FLOP
Far from a “humble” foreign policy that treated other nations with respect, Bush chose to browbeat and bully even close U.S. allies, such as France and Germany. Rather than avoiding “nation-building,” Bush’s occupation of Iraq amounts to a wholesale restructuring of the country, including plans to sell off Iraqi national assets to outside businesses.

-------------

FLIP

Shortchanging Veterans
Critics have noted other reversals from Bush’s campaign positions. During the campaign, one of Bush’s favorite lines was that under Clinton, the “military is over-deployed, under-trained and underpaid.”

FLOP

Under Bush, however, the military has been stretched even thinner and has faced administration efforts to trim expected pay raises. The Army Times, an independent newspaper that covers military affairs, reported that Bush tried “to significantly cut the 2004 military pay raise” from 3.7 percent to 2 percent. The Bush administration also got into trouble last year when it tried to cut combat pay and family separation pay for the men and women serving overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"A vigorous debate could be arranged by splicing together clips of Bush-2000 with Bush-2004."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/030204.html

[SA210]

:lmao ^^^ :lmao Bush isn't decietful. W's not a liar.

[xrayzebra]

Bush's Great Debate -- With Himself


Borrowing from George W. Bush’s favorite new joke about the Democratic debates, one could say that the Republican Party’s presidential choice is featuring a wide variety of opinions – favoring action on global warming and doing nothing; calling for a balanced federal budget and charting a future of endless deficits; advocating a “humble” foreign policy that decries “nation-building” and running a foreign policy that is arrogant and deeply involved in devising how other countries govern themselves.

The punch-line of that joke would go: And the Republican debate covers the opinions of just one candidate, George W. Bush.

Of course, Bush has used his version of this knee-slapper to mock Democratic Sen. John Kerry for supposedly flip-flopping on issues. But the joke could play as well against Bush, who sold himself to the voters as one thing in 2000 and performed quite differently in office.
----------------
FLIP
Greenhouse Effect
Global warming represented Bush’s first major flip-flop. In a clear campaign promise on September 29, 2000, Bush proposed regulating carbon dioxide as one of "four main pollutants" released into the environment by the burning of fossil fuels at power plants.
FLOP
But two months after taking office, Bush suddenly jettisoned the carbon-dioxide pledge. Bending to the wishes of the energy industry and its lobbyists, Bush pulled the rug out from under his Environmental Protection Agency director, Christie Whitman. She had believed that Bush meant what he said during the campaign and was stunned to learn in March 2001 that the initiative had been scrapped. [For an insider account of Bush’s maneuver from former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, see Ron Suskind’s The Price of Loyalty.]
---------------
FLIP
Bush made an unequivocal pledge not to raid the Social Security trust fund to pay for deficits in other parts of the federal budget. “We’re going to set aside all the payroll taxes for one thing, Social Security,” Bush said in a stump speech four days before the presidential election.
FLOP
Over a little more than three years, however, the balanced-budget promises have gone by the boards. Bush has pulled more than $350 billion out of Social Security surpluses to pay for discretionary government spending. Overall prospects for the future look even bleaker. With record deficits replacing record surpluses and the Baby Boom generation nearing retirement age, the current Social Security surpluses are expected to join the rest of the federal government in a bath of red ink.

-----------
FLIP
Humble No More
Possibly Bush’s most striking departure from his rhetoric as a candidate has been in the area of foreign policy. During the campaign, he called for a “humble” foreign policy and disparaged President Clinton’s interventions to bring stability to international hot spots as fuzzy-headed “nation-building.”

FLOP
Far from a “humble” foreign policy that treated other nations with respect, Bush chose to browbeat and bully even close U.S. allies, such as France and Germany. Rather than avoiding “nation-building,” Bush’s occupation of Iraq amounts to a wholesale restructuring of the country, including plans to sell off Iraqi national assets to outside businesses.

-------------

FLIP

Shortchanging Veterans
Critics have noted other reversals from Bush’s campaign positions. During the campaign, one of Bush’s favorite lines was that under Clinton, the “military is over-deployed, under-trained and underpaid.”

FLOP

Under Bush, however, the military has been stretched even thinner and has faced administration efforts to trim expected pay raises. The Army Times, an independent newspaper that covers military affairs, reported that Bush tried “to significantly cut the 2004 military pay raise” from 3.7 percent to 2 percent. The Bush administration also got into trouble last year when it tried to cut combat pay and family separation pay for the men and women serving overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"A vigorous debate could be arranged by splicing together clips of Bush-2000 with Bush-2004."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/030204.html

Greenhouse effect:

Myths and Envirotruth Regarding Climate Change

Some of the Experts Who Contest Kyoto's Scientific Foundation and Alternative Energy

"There are many myths and misunderstandings related to the topic of climate change. To help inform the public debate, Envirotruth has amassed a list of the "Top Climate Change Myths" that we often hear cited by supporters of the Kyoto Accord and other greenhouse gas reduction treaties. Click on a myth below to read the "Envirotruth"."


NOTE: It is important for citizens in countries that are outside of Kyoto to understand that Canada's recent ratification was driven largely by the mistaken belief that climate science is sufficiently mature to warrant a severe greenhouse gas reduction treaty. Since many environmentalists now claim that the United States and Australia should follow Canada's lead, it is useful to see the extent to which the science debate was skewed in Canada. Consequently, Envirotruth has now included, immediately following each Myth, a link to "What was said in Canada" - a listing of quotes from some of Canada's leading politicians and environmentalists. Such pseudo-science must be opposed at every possible opportunity.

More resources on climate change

Myth #1: Humanity is the primary cause of global climate change. Myth #1a: Computer models show catastrophic warming in the future. Myth #1b: The consensus of world scientists, as revealed by the un’s ipcc, agree - humanity is causing significant climate change.
MYTH #1C: Climate change is occurring at an unprecedented rate. Myth #2: Recent global temperature rise has been dramatic. Myth #3: The buildup of human induced greenhouse gases, and carbon dioxide (CO2) in particular, will cause a catastrophic planetary warming.
Myth #3a: Historical records confirm that global warming has resulted from increasing levels of CO2 in our atmosphere. Myth #4: If the earth warms, it will be disastrous for the environment and human society. Myth #5: Extreme weather events are expected to be more common if the world warms. This has already started - drought, floods, forest fires, etc. are on the rise as a result of our greenhouse gas emissions.
Myth #6: Sea level is rising quickly and it will get worse if the polar ice caps melt due to global warming. Coastal settlements and low-lying islands will be submergeda. Myth #7: Humanity is causing earth's polar regions to warm quickly resulting in unusual rates of ice melting. Myth #8: Kyoto will save thousands of lives by cutting air pollution.
Myth #8a: Scientists are able to make meaningful climate predictions based on observed, and anticipated, changes in CO2 levels. Myth #9: Associated Energy Myth: Solar and Wind Power Can Soon Be Significant Contributors to the Base Load Energy Needs of Load Energy Needs of Canada and the United States. Myth#10: The Kyoto Accord, and Other Climate Change Initiatives, are Focused Solely on Solving Environmental Problems.
Myth#11: Those Who Question Whether Human Activity Contributes in Any Significant Fashion to Climate Change are Secretly Funded by Coal, Oil, Gas and Other "Smokestack" Industries.



Sponsored by the National Center for Public Policy Research
777 N. Capitol St. NE #803 Washington, D.C. 20002
(202) 371-1400 * Fax (202) 408-7773 [email protected]


Social Security:

The Trust Fund, the Surplus, and the Real Social Security Problem
by June O'Neill

June O'Neill is Wollman Professor of Economics at the Zicklin School of Business and director of the Center for the Study of Business and Government at Baruch College, City University of New York. She was director of the Congressional Budget Office from 1995 to 1999.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive Summary

Recent discussions of Social Security's future solvency have been dominated by misleading and inaccurate portrayals of the Social Security Trust Fund and the impact of budget surpluses on the program's finances.

In reality, the Social Security Trust Fund is an accounting measure, not an accumulation of real assets that can be used to pay future benefits. That means current discussions of Social Security "lock boxes," or whether the Social Security "surplus" is being "raided," are essentially irrelevant to the program's future. The federal government lacks a mechanism that would allow it to save today against the future demographic and financial pressures that will make Social Security's current structure unsustainable over the long term.

Congress should stop playing verbal games over what are essentially accounting gimmicks and begin the serious project of Social Security reform. Ultimately, that reform will have to involve allowing workers to privately invest a portion of their Social Security taxes through individual accounts.

I could go on and on with this, but what you posted is BS. A President
has to make decisions on many matters. Some please some and not
others.

You are just going to have to do better than you have. I will take Bush
over anyone you have on your side, any day.

Three more years, live with it.

[SA210]

^^^ Seeing as how you find humor in W's lies and his screwups by repeatedly saying :lol and "he's here for 3 more years", "live with it" futher proves that u are not about the facts, but only to back up this president on all the wrong he has done at all costs, no matter how bad the damage and gloat about it. That u find humor in it, even though u know he's bad, shows loss in your credibilty just ike Gtown.

This is not about what is right or wrong for u. It's humorous to u that W is wrong and he's got 3 more years.
Maybe he'll get impeached. And it won't be for oral sex.

[xrayzebra]

^^^ Seeing as how you find humor in W's lies and his screwups by repeatedly saying :lol and "he's here for 3 more years", "live with it" futher proves that u are not about the facts, but only to back up this president on all the wrong he has done at all costs, no matter how bad the damage and gloat about it. That u find humor in it, even though u know he's bad, shows loss in your credibilty just ike Gtown.

This is not about what is right or wrong for u. It's humorous to u that W is wrong and he's got 3 more years.
Maybe he'll get impeached. And it won't be for oral sex.


No what is incredible is that the fact of you and others on this board
think you are doing no harm to your country through not supporting your
President. Like I have told you before, you live in a wonderland if you
think he is going to be impeached. To you and others like you, your only
thought is to bring this country to it's knees in defeat so Bush and his
administration can be blamed, never thinking of the country as a whole.
And compare me to anyone who supports their country. Just don't ever
compare me to someone like the filthy mouthed boutons, who you
so wholeheartly support.

[SA210]

^^^^ and it keeps on spinnin'

Keep up the lies about "we don't support our country because we are against the Bush lies". And the 'your harming your country" bs. It's nonsense and u know it. Your really trying your best to get away from the real issue.

Bush is a liar.

[Oh, Gee!!]

No what is incredible is that the fact of you and others on this board think you are doing no harm to your country through not supporting your President.

Can't the same be said about people who bashed Clinton at every turn and wanted to see him removed from office?

[SA210]

^^^ Oh, Gee, don't u know, in that case, it's not time to be playing the blame game?

[RandomGuy]

No what is incredible is that the fact of you and others on this board
think you are doing no harm to your country through not supporting your
President. Like I have told you before, you live in a wonderland if you
think he is going to be impeached. To you and others like you, your only
thought is to bring this country to it's knees in defeat so Bush and his
administration can be blamed, never thinking of the country as a whole.
And compare me to anyone who supports their country. Just don't ever
compare me to someone like the filthy mouthed boutons, who you
so wholeheartly support.


Traitors that blindly support their leader no matter how failed his policies are, no matter how much he has been proven to be dishonest, give hope to the communists and totalitarian terrorists out there.

Your support of this president gives hope to our enemies. The most informed and free nation on the planet can be blinded and led around like sheep to the slaughter makes the terrorists job easier.

You say that people who oppose the president are in line with "the communists" et al, but your point of view is directly in line with some basic tenets of maoism.



"Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people ...

They should help to consolidate, and not undermine or weaken, democratic centralism.

(5) They should help to strengthen, and not discard or weaken, the leadership of the Communist Party."

http://art-bin.com/art/omao4.html

Substitute the word "communist" with "Republican" and you have the essence of what the GOP is trying to achieve.

Your "support the president at all costs" is an anathema to democracy.

If you don't love our country, please find a totalitarian government somewhere that you would be more happy in.

[Mr. Peabody]

Can't the same be said about people who bashed Clinton at every turn and wanted to see him removed from office?

Oh, Gee!, so young and naive. Of course it wasn't wrong to bash Clinton. He was a dimm-o-crap.

[RandomGuy]

Unpatriotic can go both ways. (snorts)

[SA210]

::crickets::

[RandomGuy]

I get tired of the "support your president or you're unpatriotic" crap, so turning it around to let those who spew that particular venom has a certain poetic justice.

:p

[SA210]

^^^^ they know it's a bogus claim. they just follow the best spinners of them all, this administration and Gov. Bush.

[gtownspur]

SPIn Spin Spin., SPin the black circle... ah.. Pearl Jam just doesn't come out with the hits anymore.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy]Traitors ...<kerry>

...gives hope to our enemies <thanks for assisting them JK>.

"Words and actions should help to unite, and not divide, the people ...

They should help to consolidate, and not undermine or weaken, democratic centralism.
Thanks for summarizing what John Kerry did when he thoughtlessly ran his yapper (par for the course of John) about our troops "terrorizing" people in Iraq.

-Treasonous statement, betraying our troops in time of war

-Assisting an objective of the enemy by attacking his Country's troops

-A divisive, undermining statement