Any other team would have hired a coach by now.

[Obstructed_View]

Youngest most exciting player in a generation. Small market team garnering worldwide attention.

And still being held hostage by Popovich. No media has the guts to question anything they do, no matter how questionable. Team is struggling with a placeholder coach who fumbles around with lineup changes waiting for a 75 year old man to recover from a stroke and come back to coach?

But by all means, let's make sure we address Victor's lazy play as the Spurs rack up losses and go on the same droughts that have cost them games for years.

Is it time for an over/under for when Victor demands a trade?

Apologies if local media is talking about this. National media and ST seem not to be.

[spursistan]

:stirpot:
https://x.com/spurs/status/1879934456901038429

[spursistan]

Real talk: It would be remiss if ownership, RC Buford and whoever with stakes in the franchise do not a have yet a shortlist of candidates who would take over as permanent coach. Pop would likely have a significant input in such decision, but the idea of him coming back and coaching beyond few token games to end the season would be both silly and dangerous, imo.

[tbdog]

Real talk: It would be remiss if ownership, RC Buford and whoever with stakes in the franchise do not a have yet a shortlist of candidates who would take over as permanent coach. Pop would likely have a significant input in such decision, but the idea of him coming back and coaching beyond few token games to end the season would be both silly and dangerous, imo.

There would be contingency plans. Better candidates will come forward in the off season. I dare say the main offseason question would be how to utilise Wemby on both ends.

Also, usually you don't let a coach go unless you know what's out there.

[spursistan]

There would be contingency plans. Better candidates will come forward in the off season. I dare say the main offseason question would be how to utilise Wemby on both ends.

Also, usually you don't let a coach go unless you know what's out there.
I think the prospects of coaching Wemby might be so enticing that even currently employed NBA coaches might accept to terminate their current contracts and jump at the opportunity (Will Hardy in Utah comes to my mind). Bud would have been the clear favorite if he didn't sign with Phoenix. Wish Spo didn't sign that gigantic extension in Miami, i would absolutely throw the bag at him. I think early candidates include Mitch Johnson (duh), James Borrego, Steve Kerr, Becky. I think Pop will go for the in-house option, someone who gets rewarded with a relatively great level of job security as a result.

[RC_Drunkford]

let's make the janitor the head coach. He does a good job, he deserves it.

The time of the Spurs being the gold standard of the NBA are long gone. We're a mediocre franchise at best, with mediocre coaches, players, marketing department, etc., etc. There is nothing elite about the Spurs, except Wemby.

[dbestpro]

The Spurs front office used to be a well oiled machine. Now it’s a rust bucket of bolts.

[mo7888]

I think the prospects of coaching Wemby might be so enticing that even currently employed NBA coaches might accept to terminate their current contracts and jump at the opportunity (Will Hardy in Utah comes to my mind). Bud would have been the clear favorite if he didn't sign with Phoenix. Wish Spo didn't sign that gigantic extension in Miami, i would absolutely throw the bag at him. I think early candidates include Mitch Johnson (duh), James Borrego, Steve Kerr, Becky. I think Pop will go for the in-house option, someone who gets rewarded with a relatively great level of job security as a result.

What about Quin? Where is he on his Atlanta contract?

[tbdog]

I think the prospects of coaching Wemby might be so enticing that even currently employed NBA coaches might accept to terminate their current contracts and jump at the opportunity (Will Hardy in Utah comes to my mind). Bud would have been the clear favorite if he didn't sign with Phoenix. Wish Spo didn't sign that gigantic extension in Miami, i would absolutely throw the bag at him. I think early candidates include Mitch Johnson (duh), James Borrego, Steve Kerr, Becky. I think Pop will go for the in-house option, someone who gets rewarded with a relatively great level of job security as a result.

The thing is, coaches wouldn't leave a head coaching job to interview for another position. The spurs would require permission from the team to speak to them. I have heard of coaches being traded. Pat Riley was ironically one and it cost a first round pick. Realistically, how much would Spo cost?

[Pauleta14]

I'm afraid PATFO is more than satisfied with Mitch and yes it's depressing tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Piss and Moan Thread #14038

[ginobilized]

First off, I have no real problems with Mitch. I feel he has gotten more out of this roster than Pop did.

IF he's not the guy long-term, my list would include:

Dan Hurley
Becky Hammon
Quin Snyder
Erik Spoelstra
Maybe Manu Ginobili
Looking under rocks for the next Mark Daigneault

[baseline bum]

I really hope they're just waiting out Hurley to offer him the job in the summer but my expectation is Mitch is head coach again next season.

[ambchang]

All I want is a coach who would design a system that works with the strength of the players rather than change the players to fit into a system.

Pop used to be great at that where he would design a scheme with the player skill sets in mind. He integrated the wildness and unpredictability of manu and the speed of Tony into the offence starting around 2005 or so, moving away from the strictly four down style earlier on. The offence he will featured manu from 2008 to around 2010/11 then Tony took the reins in 2012/13. And then it shifted to a pass heavy motion offense. It’s not a clear cut change but a gradual change over the years to incorporate one element at a time. Same thing for defence going from the twin towers to Bowen to Kawhi. With very different philosophies. But now it appears that he has a system in mind (I can’t figure out what it is) and then forcing these players to adapt to it, and as a result have these players do things they can’t do.

[rjv]

Piss and Moan Thread #14038

i think you really underestimated.

[Tyronn Lue]

let's make the janitor the head coach. He does a good job, he deserves it.

The time of the Spurs being the gold standard of the NBA are long gone. We're a mediocre franchise at best, with mediocre coaches, players, marketing department, etc., etc. There is nothing elite about the Spurs, except Wemby.
The janitor deserves his turn in the coaching carousel. I'm for it.

[Obstructed_View]

let's make the janitor the head coach. He does a good job, he deserves it.

The time of the Spurs being the gold standard of the NBA are long gone. We're a mediocre franchise at best, with mediocre coaches, players, marketing department, etc., etc. There is nothing elite about the Spurs, except Wemby.
With every passing year the true greatness of Tim Duncan becomes more obvious. No single player has ever buoyed such a mediocre franchise so much. I hope the team addresses its weaknesses before Victor figures that out.

[GAustex]

Hiring a gal
Lol

[Dex]

You are better than this, Obstructed_View

You seriously think that the Spurs are going to dismiss the winningest coach in NBA history after having a near-death experience? Show some goddamn respect to a Spurs legend.

Pop probably isn't coming back, so all you fuckers wishing for him to leave got your wish.

But Mitch is going to be our coach until the end of the season, and then the Spurs will make their decision, so STFU

[GAustex]

Bring the Silver Dancers back too

[Obstructed_View]

You are better than this, Obstructed_View

You seriously think that the Spurs are going to dismiss the winningest coach in NBA history after having a near-death experience? Show some goddamn respect to a Spurs legend.

Pop probably isn't coming back, so all you fuckers wishing for him to leave got your wish.

But Mitch is going to be our coach until the end of the season, and then the Spurs will make their decision, so STFU
He only won because of his players. He gets way too much credit, thinks too highly of himself, has abused the local media for decades and is retirement age and too fucking stubborn to let the team move on from him after a stroke.

If he wants respect, he should have quit years ago. Fuck him. .

[GAustex]

^yep

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

OP and many others have covered it. You have the 1/1, a multi-generational talent, and you give him shit coaches and wore players. Wake up, ownership.

[hater]

The coach sucks sure. But hes not the reason we lose so mich


Our team sucks. Deal with it

[z0sa]

There's argument to be made that Wemby deserves consistency. As much as he's a Pop fan, he's also our player, and our professional whom we have billions of dollars of city money (indirectly and directly) riding on. Pop is being an egotist, like usual. Hang em the fuck up, and let's try for somebody else.

Plenty of great players played for multiple coaches. I wish Pop could be Wemby's ... uh, Pop, or basically PJ to MJ if you will, but he's too fucking old. Wemby's Pop or PJ is WAITING IN THE WINGS right now, tbh. If such a relationship is fated. We're wasting fuckin' time, how is this not hard to figure out ....

[RC_Drunkford]

we need a new coach who brings in some of his own staff and then goes to Brian Wright's office and tells him he needs some fuckin NBA players on the team. Somebody who changes that weakass tone in this organization and demands accountability.

[dbestpro]

Low BB IQ of head coach and players not named Wemby, Barnes, and Paul is killing this team.

[KingKev]

Make PATFO Great Again

[ChumpDumper]

Who's available now? Head coach and entire new staff?

[dn0774]

we need a new coach who brings in some of his own staff and then goes to Brian Wright's office and tells him he needs some fuckin NBA players on the team. Somebody who changes that weakass tone in this organization and demands accountability.

Basicallly this, our FO and coaching staff has gotten so stale thanks to no expectations/tanking. Ownership should be lighting a fire under everyone but they seem completely content to just pound rocks and hope something happens. Other teams are making actual roster improvements using their draft capital but we just expected Atlanta to magically tank for our benefit. I guarantee ownership is questioning why we need a legit backup big when we pay Collins $17 mil for that, Wright should be feeling all kinds of pressure from above yet we don’t make any moves.

I really feel they were banking on another tankish year (28 wins or so) but didn’t account for Wemby taking a step and the fact that Chris Paul is an absolute maniac competitively. They figured our pick would be top 5ish and Atl pick would be good too but that just isn’t playing out so we need to pivot.

[Duncan2177]

Brian Wright is not a good GM, there's a reason Detroit and Orlando fired him.

[cutewizard]

Manu , GM

Becky, Coach

[CorrectCrusader]

Tom Landry was shown the door after he couldn't coach anymore.
Time for the geriatric old timer to leave.

This is a business that only has one goal, to win. If you can't do that, get lost.

[ginobilized]

Manu , GM

Becky, Coach

Hmmmm.....I'd probably sign off on that.

Never considered Manu for front office, he seems like a coach to me. He's creative, crazy-smart, ultra-competitive and maybe the most popular Spur of all time. Cool idea!

Becky, is a hell yes!

[baseline bum]

He only won because of his players. He gets way too much credit, thinks too highly of himself, has abused the local media for decades and is retirement age and too fucking stubborn to let the team move on from him after a stroke.

If he wants respect, he should have quit years ago. Fuck him. .

He was amazing until a couple years ago. David Robinson's prime being wasted is what happens when you have trash ass coaching. Nobodies and extremely flawed young guys being developed into significant players like Malik Rose, Tony Parker, George Hill, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Derrick White, and Dejounte Murray is a pretty nice feather in Pop's hat going against your revisionism. Should probably also remember Pop was able to keep Tim Duncan when dude had the chance to team up with Grant Hill in Orlando. I know you're old like me so you remember when Hill was a better Tatum. Just like it was the right decision to move on from a legend like Landry in Dallas it's time here but bullshit on trying to go back and rewrite history with Pop's incredible contributions to this team censored out.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He only won because of his players. He gets way too much credit, thinks too highly of himself, has abused the local media for decades and is retirement age and too fucking stubborn to let the team move on from him after a stroke.

If he wants respect, he should have quit years ago. Fuck him. .


:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

[scott]

If Becky is at all in play, the window is open now, and doesn't stay open for very long.

WNBA's Free Agent tampering period begins in two days, and teams can start signing Free Agents on Feb 1. Basically Becky's preparations for next season start in two days.

The WNBA draft is on April 14 and training camp begins April 27.

If the Spurs want Becky, they probably need to get a deal done (which includes a buy-out for the Aces) by the end of February at the latest. After that, the ship will have sailed. The WNBA playoffs go through October, and there is no way Becky would just abandon the Aces midseason, so there is no way to get her after the end of February, maybe March at the absolute latest. She absolutely cannot wait until the NBA offseason.

Whether the Spurs are interested in Becky at all, we have no clue.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lol

1881092459268358384

[Trill Clinton]

Monty Williams is coach in waiting.

[dn0774]

Missed the game, did Mitch at least call a timeout as the Heat hung 46 points on us in the 3rd quarter this time?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Missed the game, did Mitch at least call a timeout as the Heat hung 46 points on us in the 3rd quarter this time?

Maybe. But he didn't do jack in the second while they ran off a 14-0 run. Didn't even call any plays on offense, just street ball.

[AusSpur]

Missed the game, did Mitch at least call a timeout as the Heat hung 46 points on us in the 3rd quarter this time?

Called timeouts, but again made no substitutions. Occasionally checked the paper in his pocket.

[Russ]

If Becky is at all in play, the window is open now, and doesn't stay open for very long.

WNBA's Free Agent tampering period begins in two days, and teams can start signing Free Agents on Feb 1. Basically Becky's preparations for next season start in two days.

The WNBA draft is on April 14 and training camp begins April 27.

If the Spurs want Becky, they probably need to get a deal done (which includes a buy-out for the Aces) by the end of February at the latest. After that, the ship will have sailed. The WNBA playoffs go through October, and there is no way Becky would just abandon the Aces midseason, so there is no way to get her after the end of February, maybe March at the absolute latest. She absolutely cannot wait until the NBA offseason.

Whether the Spurs are interested in Becky at all, we have no clue.

If the Spurs actually want to hire Becky as head coach, "open windows" likely won't be a problem.

[eric365]

Low BB IQ of head coach and players not named Wemby, Barnes, and Paul is killing this team.

In the last few games Barnes doesn’t know how to pass and is driving to the basket (sometimes vs 2 or 3 defenders) no matter how open teamates are (keldon like)

[Dverde]

Front office is more to blame. Their talent observations have mostly been bad. Mitch has been terrible lately tho.

[Spurs Homer]

Someone wemby respects…like a timmy or a tony or manu…

needs to privately talk to him about making demands on the franchise;

“Start signing talent and a championship level coach or im going to start looking at my options”

that falls on wembys shoulders…and its time that he grows up fast and begin acting like the GOAT in all phases of his career.

Period.

[objective]

Spurs have a short list, a very short list and the only name on it is Mitch Johnson

[baseline bum]

If Becky is at all in play, the window is open now, and doesn't stay open for very long.

WNBA's Free Agent tampering period begins in two days, and teams can start signing Free Agents on Feb 1. Basically Becky's preparations for next season start in two days.

The WNBA draft is on April 14 and training camp begins April 27.

If the Spurs want Becky, they probably need to get a deal done (which includes a buy-out for the Aces) by the end of February at the latest. After that, the ship will have sailed. The WNBA playoffs go through October, and there is no way Becky would just abandon the Aces midseason, so there is no way to get her after the end of February, maybe March at the absolute latest. She absolutely cannot wait until the NBA offseason.

Whether the Spurs are interested in Becky at all, we have no clue.

I don't want Pop's coaching tree, it's time to move on. Please give me Hurley this summer.

[baseline bum]

Monty Williams is coach in waiting.

Gross, think I'd rather bring Bob Hill back

[mo7888]

I'm in for Quin..

If we can't get him, then Manu is 2nd on my list because the other names are uninspiring..

[scott]

Quin has two more years left on his deal after this one, he's not going anywhere

[Robz4000]

I'm in for Quin..

If we can't get him, then Manu is 2nd on my list because the other names are uninspiring..

Manu did a surprise interview on the Blitz last week and said he had no interest in coaching tbh.

[slick'81]

Spurs getting figured out and exposed

[Kawhi Duncan]

We are ruining Wemby's career... I said it when he was a rookie... If we don't right the ship by his 3rd, year, this is who he is going to be, and I'm afraid his mentality will be what it is for the rest of his career... A talented big that settles for threes and is afraid of contact because he hasn't been placed in positions to learn how to use his size... They just let him do what he wants... No real coaching or accountability

[Bruno]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1881064870055194795

I'm not a fan of that. Pop should either come back or not interfere at all with the coaching.

[slick'81]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1881064870055194795

I'm not a fan of that. Pop should either come back or not interfere at all with the coaching.


pop gonna pop. Hes like vince McMahon hes got nothing else

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t want Brian Wring choosing our next coach tbh. Fire him and THEN hire a new coach.

[cutewizard]

"Till the wheels fall off" .......

Is not good in this context......

[dn0774]

"Till the wheels fall off" .......

Is not good in this context......

1-5 in our last 6, tons of road games coming, this could get ugly...

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1881064870055194795

I'm not a fan of that. Pop should either come back or not interfere at all with the coaching.

holding the franchise hostage as usual. I can't wait for the old man to be out the door and just let young hungry people run things. I'm sure they won't play defensive schemes that were successful in the 90s.

[kxs783kms]

No they wouldn't. Who's going to fire a head coach when he's on medical leave, just to bring in another head coach in the middle of the season? Especially for a team that you know isn't built to win a title? And if you're not going to fire Pop, then what coach in their right mind that's a head coach or in line to become a head coach, would come here for half a season, just to hand the job back over to Pop when he's fully recovered? Makes no sense at all.

[Pauleta14]

No they wouldn't. Who's going to fire a head coach when he's on medical leave, just to bring in another head coach in the middle of the season? Especially for a team that you know isn't built to win a title? And if you're not going to fire Pop, then what coach in their right mind that's a head coach or in line to become a head coach, would come here for half a season, just to hand the job back over to Pop when he's fully recovered? Makes no sense at all.

I'm not sure about replacing him half way the season, but I don't get the end of your post tbh

It would be insane from the Spurs to let Pop take his job back, whether this or next season. With a job that is so demanding emotionally and physically, the risk of him having another attack is just too important and the Spurs would get killed by fans and medias if it happened.

Pop is not coming back.

[RC_Drunkford]

somebody has to explain to me how we can be 29th in defense in the last 5 games while playing Wemby 35 minutes per night? It's almost a miracle to be able to achieve that. That's 100% on the coaches.

[Tyronn Lue]

Kerr goes down and the team wins what, 33 in a row or something obscene under the Oracle of Oracle, Luke Walton. Pop goes down and the team thinks they are at Rucker park.

[Tyronn Lue]

somebody has to explain to me how we can be 29th in defense in the last 5 games while playing Wemby 35 minutes per night? It's almost a miracle to be able to achieve that. That's 100% on the coaches.
Spurs are like 2nd in fewest fouls a game, meaning they are traffic cones because they certainly aren't all Bruce Bowen or JJJ.

[ambchang]

somebody has to explain to me how we can be 29th in defense in the last 5 games while playing Wemby 35 minutes per night? It's almost a miracle to be able to achieve that. That's 100% on the coaches.

Because Sochan, who Spurstalk experts talk about being a scrub and useless player, is out. As much as people hate Sochan with his terrible outside shooting, he is 2nd on the team in defence by most objective measures, behind Wemby. People often treat Castle as the defensive equivalent as Sochan and it simply isnt' the case, Castle is ranked low in almost all advanced defensive measure, and he is only 25 percentile in over CraftedDPM, while being 21st percentile in CraftedOPM. Sochan, meanwhile, is 51st in CraftedDPM and 24th in CraftedOPM. Not great, but he does make a difference, especially with his defensive versatility score (91st percentile) and offensive rebounding (90th).

These are very different players, and bring different things to the table. What Castle brings is the ability to drive to the basket and some playmaking, which other players (Paul, *gulp* Keldon, and Wemby brings to the table), Sochan's role is rather unique, and nobody else on the Spurs really replaced that role.

Vassell also hasn't been up to standard yet. It's good to see him at least trying on defence, and his offence seems to be getting sort of on track, other than the overly aggressive shot selection.

Sochan and Castle can't be played together because of questionable offensive schemes. Amen Thompson and Sengun plays heavy minutes for the Rockets and both shot worse than Sochan and Castle, with less attempts. Ja Morant and Marcus Smart both shoots in the low 30s, Kevin Porter Jr. and Kris Dunn plays about 20mpg for the Clippers and both are comparably bad to Sochan and Castle shooting 3s. Jarret Allen and Mobley plays heavy minutes for the league leading Cavs (yes, Mobley shoots 42% but he rarely shoots them). Orlando has Anthony Black, Isaac, Cole Anthony, Suggs and even Franz Wagner, all poor to below average shooters.

The Spurs should be able to put something together now in terms of offensive and defensive schemes, there just wasn't any.

[RC_Drunkford]

Agree with the Sochan take, but even without him you can’t be 29th in defensive rating while having the DPOY playing most of the minutes. The Spurs should be top 10 defensive team since they can’t shoot, but somehow they can’t even accomplish that.

[scott]

Because Sochan, who Spurstalk experts talk about being a scrub and useless player, is out. As much as people hate Sochan with his terrible outside shooting, he is 2nd on the team in defence by most objective measures, behind Wemby. People often treat Castle as the defensive equivalent as Sochan and it simply isnt' the case, Castle is ranked low in almost all advanced defensive measure, and he is only 25 percentile in over CraftedDPM, while being 21st percentile in CraftedOPM. Sochan, meanwhile, is 51st in CraftedDPM and 24th in CraftedOPM. Not great, but he does make a difference, especially with his defensive versatility score (91st percentile) and offensive rebounding (90th).

These are very different players, and bring different things to the table. What Castle brings is the ability to drive to the basket and some playmaking, which other players (Paul, *gulp* Keldon, and Wemby brings to the table), Sochan's role is rather unique, and nobody else on the Spurs really replaced that role.

Vassell also hasn't been up to standard yet. It's good to see him at least trying on defence, and his offence seems to be getting sort of on track, other than the overly aggressive shot selection.

Sochan and Castle can't be played together because of questionable offensive schemes. Amen Thompson and Sengun plays heavy minutes for the Rockets and both shot worse than Sochan and Castle, with less attempts. Ja Morant and Marcus Smart both shoots in the low 30s, Kevin Porter Jr. and Kris Dunn plays about 20mpg for the Clippers and both are comparably bad to Sochan and Castle shooting 3s. Jarret Allen and Mobley plays heavy minutes for the league leading Cavs (yes, Mobley shoots 42% but he rarely shoots them). Orlando has Anthony Black, Isaac, Cole Anthony, Suggs and even Franz Wagner, all poor to below average shooters.

The Spurs should be able to put something together now in terms of offensive and defensive schemes, there just wasn't any.

Great take. There is a lot to be critical of Sochan for, and most certainly Castle and Sochan are currently unplayable together, but Sochan is a critical cog to our defense. 48 minutes of Wemby/Sochan/Castle is what makes our defense work best.

[RC_Drunkford]

what is Mitch telling them at halftime?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ghu63JxWcAANTsf?format=jpg&name=small

[scott]

To OP's statement "Any other team would have hired a coach by now"

This is most certainly true, and it has nothing to do with Pop's stroke.

This franchise and this coach are the only combination willing to tolerate being this bad, for this long. Not even other HOF GOATs get this length of rope. Another other team would have hired a new coach before this season even started (and probably even before that).

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, more teams would have an interim coach and hire a permanent one in the offseason when new head and assistant coaches are actually available.

[ChumpDumper]

I do acknowledge that the timing of a potential Hammond hire would be different but that would still bring up the issue of availability for assistants.

[kxs783kms]

I'm not sure about replacing him half way the season, but I don't get the end of your post tbh

It would be insane from the Spurs to let Pop take his job back, whether this or next season. With a job that is so demanding emotionally and physically, the risk of him having another attack is just too important and the Spurs would get killed by fans and medias if it happened.

Pop is not coming back.

Ok, even if he doesn't come back after this. No team is going to hire a new coach mid season like this. It's always going to be an interim coaching off the bench stepping in to take over until the end of the season, no matter how bad he/she is coaching. After that, that's when they look at potential candidates. OP's title is way off.

[BatManu20]

1881750952207937584

[RC_Drunkford]

biggest need after finding a back up C tbh. And the answer ain't Pop

[Gandalf]

I can understand any sentimentality in not wanting to force Pop out, but it’s time for him to retire, for his own sake and the Spurs.

The coaching was bad for years before he left (I think R.C. Drunkford started another thread that we’ve been last in box-outs for a while), and if we go another year like this, Wemby might not extend, and you can safely guarantee the Lakers (or some other teams) will be tampering like crazy to encourage him to leave.

Spurs need to grow a spine and do what MUST be done. Then kick the tires on the UConn coach, Spoelstra, etc.

[Sugus]

I can understand any sentimentality in not wanting to force Pop out, but it’s time for him to retire, for his own sake and the Spurs.

The coaching was bad for years before he left (I think R.C. Drunkford started another thread that we’ve been last in box-outs for a while), and if we go another year like this, Wemby might not extend, and you can safely guarantee the Lakers (or some other teams) will be tampering like crazy to encourage him to leave.

Spurs need to grow a spine and do what MUST be done. Then kick the tires on the UConn coach, Spoelstra, etc.

It's his own sake I'm worried most at this point, tbh :lol

I really hope the Spurs don't plan to subject elderly, post-stroke Pop to highly stressful situations like NBA games, and last night's game in particular. Nobody expects anything to happen, until it does... And I seriously don't want anything like that to happen in the middle of an NBA game, on live TV.

Pop's own medical staff should be strictly forbidding him from any sort of "returning to work" activities for his own health. It's not like he's a 9-to-5 office, sit-on-his-butt administrative assistant. The travel alone increases his risk factor significantly.

[Gandalf]

It's his own sake I'm worried most at this point, tbh :lol

I really hope the Spurs don't plan to subject elderly, post-stroke Pop to highly stressful situations like NBA games, and last night's game in particular. Nobody expects anything to happen, until it does... And I seriously don't want anything like that to happen in the middle of an NBA game, on live TV.

Pop's own medical staff should be strictly forbidding him from any sort of "returning to work" activities for his own health. It's not like he's a 9-to-5 office, sit-on-his-butt administrative assistant. The travel alone increases his risk factor significantly.

Yep. It sucks to do it, but it’s time to ‘take the keys away from Grandpa.’

[scott]

It's his own sake I'm worried most at this point, tbh :lol

I really hope the Spurs don't plan to subject elderly, post-stroke Pop to highly stressful situations like NBA games, and last night's game in particular. Nobody expects anything to happen, until it does... And I seriously don't want anything like that to happen in the middle of an NBA game, on live TV.

Pop's own medical staff should be strictly forbidding him from any sort of "returning to work" activities for his own health. It's not like he's a 9-to-5 office, sit-on-his-butt administrative assistant. The travel alone increases his risk factor significantly.

Yeah, assuming we are firmly out of the play-in race at that point, I say bring him back for the last home game of the season, with the assistants doing most of the work, let him grab the mic during the game as many times as he wants, and have a nice farewell.

[z0sa]

^ I think that's exactly what the Spurs brass are planning. There's no such thing as a "minor stroke RTW process" for a 75 year old in terms of one who is working in a high-stress environment.

No doctor will give the go-ahead to return to a high stress environment for an elderly person who should be retired, at least, that I've heard of.

Pop literally dying on the sidelines during a game would be massively bad PR from a Spurs ownership (and NBA) standpoint, as well.

If I was a betting man, I'd say the Pop is era is over in all but name. They simply must want Pop to coach one last game, preferably a meaningless one, and bow out "on his own terms."

[LeBowen]

Final game of the season is against the Raptors, should be winnable and a nice send-off for Pop.
Having him anywhere near the team when the next season starts would be malpractice.

[BackHome]

What was the name of the coach that keeps coming up as Pop replacement it is not one of Pop ex coaches or assistants?

[RC_Drunkford]

What was the name of the coach that keeps coming up as Pop replacement it is not one of Pop ex coaches or assistants?

Dan Hurley. It‘s a long shot to ever get him to coach an NBA team, but if there’s one it’s the Spurs. NBA teams would hate us even more if we pull this off.

[TD 21]

Hurley is an egomaniac, expensive and not part of the "family".

Johnson is predictably receiving far too much blame for clearly carrying on or out what Pop (who he's in constant contact with) wants.

Unfortunately, politics and stature play a major role in rotational decisions in this league. A relative neophyte like him isn't bringing a future 1st ball HOF'er off the bench, or not closing with him or excising a once core player making $20M from the rotation.

Come the off season, all the excuses are out the window though. Can't be half pregnant. Size and shooting must be added and decisions have to be made on if/where Vassell, Johnson, Sochan fit.

[RC_Drunkford]

Hurley is an egomaniac, expensive and not part of the "family".


sounds exactly like Pop to me. Would fit right in :lol

[Gandalf]

Johnson is predictably receiving far too much blame for clearly carrying on or out what Pop (who he's in constant contact with) wants.


Is Pop telling Mitch not to let anyone box out (we’re dead last in the NBA)? Even if Pop is, why would Mitch listen?

If and to the degree you’re suggesting they should stick with Mitch after Pop retires, hoping he’ll magically get better than he has been this year, I think that’s a horrible, horrible plan. We can’t risk wasting yet another year of Wemby on the hope that Johnson might pan out (despite all evidence to the contrary). We need a good coach (Hurley, Spoelstra, etc.) next year. We can’t wait any longer. If Wemby doesn’t extend and other teams tamper to get him to leave (which a third down year would make exponentially more likely), the Spurs are toast for a decade, if not permanently.

[TD 21]

Is Pop telling Mitch not to let anyone box out (we’re dead last in the NBA)? Even if Pop is, why would Mitch listen?

If and to the degree you’re suggesting they should stick with Mitch after Pop retires, hoping he’ll magically get better than he has been this year, I think that’s a horrible, horrible plan. We can’t risk wasting yet another year of Wemby on the hope that Johnson might pan out (despite all evidence to the contrary). We need a good coach (Hurley, Spoelstra, etc.) next year. We can’t wait any longer. If Wemby doesn’t extend and other teams tamper to get him to leave (which a third down year would make exponentially more likely), the Spurs are toast for a decade, if not permanently.

So Johnson is telling his players to not box out?

I'm not suggesting they should or shouldn't stick with Johnson, I'm simply explaining how the league works. Johnson is a mere figurehead.

What constitutes a "good coach"? If they add shooting + size and have internal improvement from Wembanyama and Castle next season, they'll likely be a good team and it won't be because of whoever the coach is.

[RC_Drunkford]

So Johnson is telling his players to not box out?

I'm not suggesting they should or shouldn't stick with Johnson, I'm simply explaining how the league works. Johnson is a mere figurehead.

What constitutes a "good coach"? If they add shooting + size and have internal improvement from Wembanyama and Castle next season, they'll likely be a good team and it won't be because of whoever the coach is.

yeah I'm sure the Cavaliers' improvement had nothing to do with changing the coach

[Knoxxx]

Any other team doesn’t have the coach with the most wins in NBA history.

[TD 21]

yeah I'm sure the Cavaliers' improvement had nothing to do with changing the coach

Nah, it mostly had to do with the core + Jerome getting healthy (check their on/off #'s from 2 seasons ago) and Mobley and Garland getting closer to their prime.

If you're going to pretend otherwise, then make sure to give Bickerstaff the same credit you give Atkinson for the Pistons turnaround.

[Gandalf]

So Johnson is telling his players to not box out?

He’s apparently not coaching them to box out - or he is, and they’re completely ignoring him for an entire season. Either way, not good.

I think it’s fair to say that if your relatively inexperienced interim coach has you dead last in the NBA in boxing out, you should never risk hiring him to be your permanent coach - and particularly when Wemby and your franchise may well depend on your next coaching hire and season.

[OldMan88]

Pop’s done. They’ll maybe let him coach the last game of the season then he’ll announce his retirement. Agree his doctors won’t approve his return to work.

[Gandalf]

Any other team doesn’t have the coach with the most wins in NBA history.

You could still be repeating this same sentence after three more losing seasons, with Wemby in LA, and the Spurs thinking about Vegas. How has Pop’s coaching looked the last few years?

Two things can be true: 1) Pop might have been one of the best coaches, but 2) he isn’t now. As has already been said, it’s in both his and the Spurs’ best interest that he retire now. An 82-game NBA season and that travel / stress is not good for a 75-year-old recovering from a stroke. What happens if he has another in the middle of next season? What about Pop, and what about the Spurs, who can’t likely hire a good coach mid-season (see this season)? It’s time (if not long past time) for Pop to retire.

[rankingtear]

Hope it is CP3 i think that is why they wanted him on board this year. Nobody really has that intensity young Pop had. Hurley is another but he comes off just as a major asshole than a competitor. With Victor usually calm demeanor a aggresive type coach is a good compliment.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nah, it mostly had to do with the core + Jerome getting healthy (check their on/off #'s from 2 seasons ago) and Mobley and Garland getting closer to their prime.

If you're going to pretend otherwise, then make sure to give Bickerstaff the same credit you give Atkinson for the Pistons turnaround.

you are missing the part of using Mobley as an offensive initiator to improve spacing which has everything to do with coaching, but it's all Ty Jerome apparently :lol

[TD 21]

you are missing the part of using Mobley as an offensive initiator to improve spacing which has everything to do with coaching, but it's all Ty Jerome apparently :lol

They did some of that under Bickerstaff too and probably would have done more anyway given that Mobley "taking the next step" was both low hanging fruit and their best bet to raise their ceiling.

Forgot to add, the core also has more continuity.

[LeBowen]

They did some of that under Bickerstaff too and probably would have done more anyway given that Mobley "taking the next step" was both low hanging fruit and their best bet to raise their ceiling.

Forgot to add, the core also has more continuity.

They went from 18th ORTG last season to 1st this season.
It's the closest thing to when Kerr took over for Mark Jackson.

[TD 21]

They went from 18th ORTG last season to 1st this season.
It's the closest thing to when Kerr took over for Mark Jackson.

They were 9th two seasons ago, when the core was healthier, younger and lacking in continuity and shooting around them.

All of those things have been remedied this season, but somehow it's the genius coach who apparently knows something the previous one didn't, but random message board posters do.

[LeBowen]

They were 9th two seasons ago, when the core was healthier, younger and lacking in continuity and shooting around them.

All of those things have been remedied this season, but somehow it's the genius coach who apparently knows something the previous one didn't, but random message board posters do.

Stop digging yourself deeper.
Last season Cavs fans were mostly down on Bickerstaff because their offense got stagnant and it was about Mitchell and Garland taking turns.
You say they were 9th best offense two seasons ago? Correct and they were dead last in pace. This season they're 6th.
A completely different approach despite roster and individual numbers looking more or less the same.

[itzsoweezee]

ONE player on the current roster has drawn a charge this season. Victor has drawn 8, every other Spurs has drawn ZERO.

[LeBowen]

ONE player on the current roster has drawn a charge this season. Victor has drawn 8, every other Spurs has drawn ZERO.

Last night there was a situation with Devin perfectly set up to draw a charge and he just moved out of the way. :lol
I really miss Derrick in that regard.

[TD 21]

Stop digging yourself deeper.
Last season Cavs fans were mostly down on Bickerstaff because their offense got stagnant and it was about Mitchell and Garland taking turns.
You say they were 9th best offense two seasons ago? Correct and they were dead last in pace. This season they're 6th.
A completely different approach despite roster and individual numbers looking more or less the same.

Relax and stop being brainwashed.

The roster is different though because Mobley and Garland are closer to their prime + they added shooting.

Of course they play slightly different, but the success is on the players. It always is. With reasonable health, this team was always going to be a regular season wins machine.

[LeBowen]

Relax and stop being brainwashed.

I'm not brainwashed, you just had a bad take and would rather embarrass yourself than admit you're wrong.


Of course they play slightly different, but the success is on the players. It always is. With reasonable health, this team was always going to be a regular season wins machine.

Noone said Bickerstaff Cavs were a bad team, it's just that Atkinson took them to another level.
Those it's all about the players stories can work only on casual fans. Unless you have a stacked team led by one of the best players in the league, coach makes the most difference.
Idk why am I even engaging in this nonsense, just research for yourself and see what non-casual Cavs fans think about the coaching change.

[TD 21]

I'm not brainwashed, you just had a bad take and would rather embarrass yourself than admit you're wrong.



Noone said Bickerstaff Cavs were a bad team, it's just that Atkinson took them to another level.
Those it's all about the players stories can work only on casual fans. Unless you have a stacked team led by one of the best players in the league, coach makes the most difference.
Idk why am I even engaging in this nonsense, just research for yourself and see what non-casual Cavs fans think about the coaching change.

I'm wrong because I brought up facts and you brought up theories?

Whatever, I'm done here. I don't care enough to expend the time or energy to do this anymore.

Think what you want and continue on being miserable and filled with rage.

[LeBowen]

I'm wrong because I brought up facts and you brought up theories?

Which fucking facts you retard, I told you they were way worse offensively last year, you brought the year before and I told you they played completely different basketball, evidenced by their pace difference which can't be an outlier.
Why is this fucking board full of such massive egos that would rather hang themselves than accept they had a bad take?

[TD 21]

LeBowen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54457)
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[exstatic]

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So you come back to put people on ignore when they have a different opinion than you?

[LeBowen]

So you come back to put people on ignore when they have a different opinion than you?

I personally have nothing against him ignoring me, but letting everyone know he ignored me is teenager level pettiness. :lol
Especially after he said I'm making things up and my only argument were literally numbers.
This place is a freakshow, tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

They did some of that under Bickerstaff too and probably would have done more anyway given that Mobley "taking the next step" was both low hanging fruit and their best bet to raise their ceiling.

Forgot to add, the core also has more continuity.

the fact that you think players come up with style of play and in-game strategy themselves is almost as hilarious as your hard on for Anthony Davis :lol

[ambchang]

I personally have nothing against him ignoring me, but letting everyone know he ignored me is teenager level pettiness. :lol
Especially after he said I'm making things up and my only argument were literally numbers.
This place is a freakshow, tbh.

He’s been on his coaches don’t matter train for years. The cavs change in offensive style is well documented and various articles by basketball analysts were pointing that out in December or so about how the cavs offense if much more difficult to guard due to those changes. it was obvious and to say they ran the same plays two years ago was asinine. The cavs did not have mobley and Allen as offensive hubs in the past and they did this year. The pace is way faster, and this is all written about during the preseason. The change in offensive philosophy wasn’t only clear, Atkinson said it himself.

Just save your breath, coaching is more important now than ever before. The complexity in offensive sets have mandated a system rather than a bunch of guys trotting around. The precision is high in order to execute properly. Obviously players matter but they are there to run a system they won’t be able to just magically come up with on their own.

[objective]

ONE player on the current roster has drawn a charge this season. Victor has drawn 8, every other Spurs has drawn ZERO.

That's CRAZY if true.

That means it's a team full of Bryn's. Anti-Hustle. And one area where Anti-Hustle really shows itself? Defensive rebounding. Far too many times this year where the ball drops in the middle of some Spurs but no one moves to grab it resulting in a lost rebound to the other team.

Hell the only guy I remember diving on the floor for loose balls? Wemby.

This is where coaching matters. Mitch tolerates this nonsense. He's not getting into players. At all. He refuses to immediately sub out lazy for some kind of spark players who would love minutes like Mamu or Sidy, and sadly some of the remaining end of bench players themselves are Anti-Hustle like Branham. He subs out Castle for rookie mistakes no problem, but it's open season for everyone else to eat ass

[TD 21]

So you come back to put people on ignore when they have a different opinion than you?

Nah, I put them on when they're ranting, raving lunatics who resort to ad homenim and/or trolls.

If it was just about difference of opinion, I'd have put many on ignore long ago.

As I've said, my memory is not what it was. I can't recall all these squabbles of the past, but whoever can't move by it, I won't be wasting my time with. Also makes it easier to sift through.



the fact that you think players come up with style of play and in-game strategy themselves is almost as hilarious as your hard on for Anthony Davis :lol

Base offenses and defenses utilize the same concepts, they just use different terminology. Of course, they'll use more or less of something based on personnel, but no one is reinventing the wheel and any player that's been in the league more than five minutes has seen and heard it all.

I didn't argue that the Cavaliers' style hasn't been tweaked, I argued that's not the primary driver of their success.

I'm not even Davis fan, he's just near the top of the list of players who are constantly underappreciated or criticized.

[z0sa]

That's CRAZY if true.

That means it's a team full of Bryn's. Anti-Hustle. And one area where Anti-Hustle really shows itself? Defensive rebounding. Far too many times this year where the ball drops in the middle of some Spurs but no one moves to grab it resulting in a lost rebound to the other team.

Hell the only guy I remember diving on the floor for loose balls? Wemby.

This is where coaching matters. Mitch tolerates this nonsense. He's not getting into players. At all. He refuses to immediately sub out lazy for some kind of spark players who would love minutes like Mamu or Sidy, and sadly some of the remaining end of bench players themselves are Anti-Hustle like Branham. He subs out Castle for rookie mistakes no problem, but it's open season for everyone else to eat ass

That's because Mitch is honestly, fucking terrible at his job.

[dbestpro]

Pop needs to shit or get. Either, come back and coach this team or get out of the way so a real coach can take over. That means taking Johnson with you.

[RC_Drunkford]

Base offenses and defenses utilize the same concepts, they just use different terminology. Of course, they'll use more or less of something based on personnel, but no one is reinventing the wheel and any player that's been in the league more than five minutes has seen and heard it all.

I didn't argue that the Cavaliers' style hasn't been tweaked, I argued that's not the primary driver of their success.

I'm not even Davis fan, he's just near the top of the list of players who are constantly underappreciated or criticized.

sure it's a copycat league, but coaching still matters regardless. I know you think it's the players and coaching is overrated which is true to a certain degree, but not all the way. Rotations matter, line ups matter, time outs matter and a coach being able to motivate his players to execute the gameplan matters as well. I don't see any of it on the Spurs.

[Light]

ONE player on the current roster has drawn a charge this season. Victor has drawn 8, every other Spurs has drawn ZERO.

We'd rather do a half-assed swipe at the ball to ensure the and-1

[objective]

Nah, I put them on when they're ranting, raving lunatics who resort to ad homenim and/or trolls.

If it was just about difference of opinion, I'd have put many on ignore long ago.

As I've said, my memory is not what it was. I can't recall all these squabbles of the past, but whoever can't move by it, I won't be wasting my time with. Also makes it easier to sift through.




Base offenses and defenses utilize the same concepts, they just use different terminology. Of course, they'll use more or less of something based on personnel, but no one is reinventing the wheel and any player that's been in the league more than five minutes has seen and heard it all.

I didn't argue that the Cavaliers' style hasn't been tweaked, I argued that's not the primary driver of their success.

I'm not even Davis fan, he's just near the top of the list of players who are constantly underappreciated or criticized.

This whole back and forth is giving me flashbacks of when reporters were asking Vinny Del Negro about his coaching system and he responded by basically saying all systems were the same, everyone ran everything, it's all pick and rolls and pops and post ups and cuts, it was all the same.

I'm sure Vinny would love a chance to coach again, and he's even part of the 'family'.

No thank you for me, but I suppose some fans might be into him and his philosophy.

[MannyIsGod]

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You might as well just wave a white flag against this person because showing someone that you have them on the ignore list is the biggest self own of all. I swear some of you are so damn pathetic.

[TD 21]

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sure it's a copycat league, but coaching still matters regardless. I know you think it's the players and coaching is overrated which is true to a certain degree, but not all the way. Rotations matter, line ups matter, time outs matter and a coach being able to motivate his players to execute the gameplan matters as well. I don't see any of it on the Spurs.

Fair enough, just spare me the "system" crap when they're all more or less utilizing the same menu of options (of course tailored to their own personnel).

Rotations are by far most important, but again politics play a role.

I agree that Johnson probably doesn't have a firm enough personality to be a head coach. The key to commanding a room and getting them to buy into what's (perceived) best for the team, is to be something of a prick without having them resent you for it.

[scott]

ONE player on the current roster has drawn a charge this season. Victor has drawn 8, every other Spurs has drawn ZERO.

Vassell seems actively afraid of taking a charge.

[scott]

Relax and stop being brainwashed.

The roster is different though because Mobley and Garland are closer to their prime + they added shooting.

Of course they play slightly different, but the success is on the players. It always is. With reasonable health, this team was always going to be a regular season wins machine.

It’s entirely possible that Bickerstaff was no longer the right coach for CLE, and Atkinson was, while Bickerstaff was simultaneously the right coach for where DET is and they are headed.

It’s also possible that Bickerstaff could have learned from his time in CLE and made some adjustments in how he’s approached the job in DET. I know us Spurs fans aren’t used to coaches making adjustments…

TBH, Atkinson deserves COY consideration, but so does JB. He’s done an amazing job in DET, a team that looks better than ours despite not getting much from their last two lottery picks right now.

[TD 21]

Sure. It's also entirely possible that they'd more or less be in the same position had they brought in virtually any other coach (Mitchell had supposedly soured on Bickerstaff), given the factors I said.

I just don't like the lazy, cliche default credit to the coach narrative.

The few who I see as having a tangible impact are the ones I described in my last post, but they often have a limited shelf life because their gruff demeanor generally burns players out fast.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55WVapTINRQ

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1sU3gKNeao

[Gandalf]

Who else might be a good option next year aside from Hurley or Spoelstra (if we’d have a chance with either)? I remember liking what I saw from the Knicks’ coach at one point, though I’m sure he’s locked into a decent contract. Any good Assistants out there?

[Twisted_Dawg]

A couple of long shots here,
but maybe Pop has had quiet talks with Kerr about him taking over after his contract is up in 2026?

Second, if Quinn Snyder gets fired in Atlanta, that might be a candidate.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqc8DKQ6U84&t=7s

Spurs talk beginning at 23:40. They rip Paul starting and the bad rotations. Also talk about Castle playing only 20 minutes yesterday.

[itzsoweezee]

It was refreshing hearing PJ Carlisimo on the broadcast last night. He was not afraid to call out the bad decision making and lazy play by the spurs. Imagine having a guy like that, who actually holds players accountable coaching this team.

[exstatic]

Who else might be a good option next year aside from Hurley or Spoelstra (if we’d have a chance with either)? I remember liking what I saw from the Knicks’ coach at one point, though I’m sure he’s locked into a decent contract. Any good Assistants out there?

You ABSOLUTELY do not want Thibs as a coach. He’ll run everyone into the ground playing a 7 man rotation.

[lefty]

:lmao Thibs

[LeBowen]

Tbh, get one of those European lunatics who curse the players out on every time-out. :lol

[Chomag]

It was refreshing hearing PJ Carlisimo on the broadcast last night. He was not afraid to call out the bad decision making and lazy play by the spurs. Imagine having a guy like that, who actually holds players accountable coaching this team.

I still think PJ was the real masterind behind Pop that set the Spurs tone of achieving the next level but I digress

[rjv]

PJ was a great assistant and i love him as an analyst. he was great at Seton Hall but just never seemed to cut the mustard as a head coach in the league. makes no sense because he did a pretty decent job with the blazers and the nets.

[Gagnrath]

PJ was a great assistant and i love him as an analyst. he was great at Seton Hall but just never seemed to cut the mustard as a head coach in the league. makes no sense because he did some pretty a decent job with the blazers and the nets.


The Nets are a big part of the problem. You also have to have a decent ownership to be successful as a coach. I don't know much about the Blazers but the Nets are a joke on that front.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqc8DKQ6U84&t=7s

Spurs talk beginning at 23:40. They rip Paul starting and the bad rotations. Also talk about Castle playing only 20 minutes yesterday.

it‘s like starting Bryn Forbes. Everybody sees that it’s idiotic, everybody knows what the starting line up should be, but our coaching staff „keeps pounding the rock“ :lol

[TDomination]

It was refreshing hearing PJ Carlisimo on the broadcast last night. He was not afraid to call out the bad decision making and lazy play by the spurs. Imagine having a guy like that, who actually holds players accountable coaching this team.
yes, it was great listening to PJ's takes. He called out so many spurs, lazy defense, not going for the rebounds, not rebounding and not finishing defensive possessions with rebounds, taking ill advised shots and so forth.

This young team is polar opposite to our Duncan/Parker/Manu days with not only style of play but simply making the right plays. Nothing fancy, just simple things like attacking the paint instead of settling for a 3.

[BatManu20]

KOC calling out Mitch Johnson/PATFO for their malpractice. Castle should be starting over CP3, period.

1889341903952367806

[spurraider21]

someone should just point blank ask mitch "what kind of productivity or performance would it take to justify starting stephon"

paul starting isnt just getting in the way of Castle, thats just one piece of it. it also makes for an undersized backcourt, has either him or fox playing out of position, and also makes it a lot harder to stagger minutes between fox and paul to ensure we have at least one of them on the floor at all times

[The Truth #6]

It's funny, this front office has pretty much complete power and autonomy, but they make these decisions that feel like they were overly discussed in meetings and basically the result of an awkward compromise where nothing good happens but no one's too insulted. Like politics.

[Seventyniner]

Tbh, get one of those European lunatics who curse the players out on every time-out. :lol

Get someone who Victor will allow to curse him out on the regular. Then nobody else can ever complain when it's their turn. Pop/Duncan part II.

[Gandalf]

You ABSOLUTELY do not want Thibs as a coach. He’ll run everyone into the ground playing a 7 man rotation.

Good to know, I don’t follow him closely; I just remember a game or two I’ve seen where his team (maybe back when he was with the Bulls) played tenacious team defense.

[baseline bum]

Spurs clearly promised CP3 the starting job to get him here and can't go back on it. Probably didn't think there was any way in hell they'd land a guy like Fox so cheaply without giving up any Atlanta picks nor players so it was a reasonable idea at the time. And CP3 was making the team so much better at the time but yeah he and Fox together is a bad lineup.

[spurraider21]

Spurs clearly promised CP3 the starting job to get him here and can't go back on it. Probably didn't think there was any way in hell they'd land a guy like Fox so cheaply without giving up any Atlanta picks nor players so it was a reasonable idea at the time. And CP3 was making the team so much better at the time but yeah he and Fox together is a bad lineup.
he should still play plenty, but they need to stagger his minutes with Fox's as much as possible. if Fox is playing 36 minutes, then 12 of Pauls' minutes absolutely have to come during those intervals, no question. there is no reason not to, and if starting him is contributing to that, then that should change

there are 96 guard minutes available.

if Fox plays 36 and Caslte plays, say, 30, there are still 30 minutes to go around. let paul play his 25-26 minutes, and the remainder of that time can just be a bigger lineup where one of vassell/champ are occupying the 2.

i dont know exactly what has to change, but steph getting 19 minutes, in a game where he was playing well, and coming off a string of games where he's been a top 3 player on the team... its not working

[exstatic]

he should still play plenty, but they need to stagger his minutes with Fox's as much as possible. if Fox is playing 36 minutes, then 12 of Pauls' minutes absolutely have to come during those intervals, no question. there is no reason not to, and if starting him is contributing to that, then that should change

there are 96 guard minutes available.

if Fox plays 36 and Caslte plays, say, 30, there are still 30 minutes to go around. let paul play his 25-26 minutes, and the remainder of that time can just be a bigger lineup where one of vassell/champ are occupying the 2.

i dont know exactly what has to change, but steph getting 19 minutes, in a game where he was playing well, and coming off a string of games where he's been a top 3 player on the team... its not working

CP3 is arguably a top 3 Spurs FA signing, behind LMA and Findog. If you break a promise like that, it’ll be even harder for us to sign top FAs. It’s not worth it just to chase a playin spot.

[LeBowen]

CP3 is arguably a top 3 Spurs FA signing, behind LMA and Findog. If you break a promise like that, it’ll be even harder for us to sign top FAs. It’s not worth it just to chase a playin spot.

We'll have the best player in the league, you really think anyone will remember CP0's corpse 5-10 years down the line?
It's not about a play-in spot, but about the development of our second best young player.

[TD 21]

I already forgot who, but someone in the national media said recently (Haynes?) that the Spurs didn't intend to fast track their re-build until Fox essentially fell into their lap.

Either way, I would think that has to change this off season, but in the interim they're clearly not all-in to make the play-in.

I still think there's a chance of a "come to Jesus" meeting during the All-Star break with Paul and he gets released to sign with a contender, but if not they clearly won't break their promise to him.

As for not staggering Fox and Paul, I suspect it's to see how Castle does running "his own" unit, to get a sense of how to proceed in the off season as far as secondary play making.

If he can be something of a Ginobili to Fox's Parker, then they can return the same guard corps sans Paul. If not, it'll be another area (albeit down the list) to consider addressing.

The rest of the rotation, this is what happens when you have a jumble of politics, lack positional size + two-way players: You constantly have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

[spurraider21]

I already forgot who, but someone in the national media said recently (Haynes?) that the Spurs didn't intend to fast track their re-build until Fox essentially fell into their lap.

Either way, I would think that has to change this off season, but in the interim they're clearly not all-in to make the play-in.

I still think there's a chance of a "come to Jesus" meeting during the All-Star break with Paul and he gets released to sign with a contender, but if not they clearly won't break their promise to him.

As for not staggering Fox and Paul, I suspect it's to see how Castle does running "his own" unit, to get a sense of how to proceed in the off season as far as secondary play making.

If he can be something of a Ginobili to Fox's Parker, then they can return the same guard corps sans Paul. If not, it'll be another area (albeit down the list) to consider addressing.

The rest of the rotation, this is what happens when you have a jumble of politics, lack positional size + two-way players: You constantly have to rob Peter to pay Paul.
a secondary playmaker doesnt need his own unit. thats what makes him secondary. for all the talk about castle being the point guard of the future, we just traded for and are likely to extend Fox who is a point guard. if they want to see how castle's future looks as a secondary playmaker alongside de'aaron fox, the way to do that would be to play him alongside de'aaron fox

[TD 21]

I meant it in multiple senses. Sure, Castle will eventually be the secondary play maker alongside Fox, but can he also handle primary duties in the non Fox minutes?

They'll have to decide what to do with Vassell, but right now they've invested quite a bit asset wise and financially in the back court and probably want to get a sense of whether they can essentially cross it off the list or not.

[scott]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqc8DKQ6U84&t=7s

Spurs talk beginning at 23:40. They rip Paul starting and the bad rotations. Also talk about Castle playing only 20 minutes yesterday.

These two guys, who probably only watch condensed versions of games on LeaguePass replay, able to diagnose our team better than any of the beat writers who cover the team day in and day out :lol

[exstatic]

These two guys, who probably only watch condensed versions of games on LeaguePass replay, able to diagnose our team better than any of the beat writers who cover the team day in and day out :lol

They must be posters here.

[Gandalf]

Does the Spurs organization follow Spurstalk? You’d figure at least some of them would. Maybe keep bumping this thread until we hire a good coach and staff….

[scott]

If RC isn't spending the ASB negotiating Becky's buyout and contract, then wtf is he doing?

[Extra Stout]

The concern I have is that Peter J. Holt might be just another milquetoast failson who will dither and not take action until Wemby is halfway out the door.

We’ll find out this offseason. If the Spurs have a new president and a new experienced head coach, then maybe they can make something of the Wemby years. If Pop is back, or if they just take the “acting” label off Mitch, then might as well check out as fans.

[BatManu20]

1889868426744885281

[scott]

KOC's criticism has been pretty pointed as of late, but also pretty spot on.

[SequSpur]

They have a head coach is very competent growing gray hair sitting in a chair that they refuse to pay so Mitch coaches…why is this dude still allowed to make topics?

[Ice009]

They have a head coach is very competent growing gray hair sitting in a chair that they refuse to pay so Mitch coaches…why is this dude still allowed to make topics?

Which coach are you referring to that they refuse to pay?

[cutewizard]

Guys, this is out of topic but I wanted to ask

Could the triangle offense be suitable for Wemby and company??

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Guys, this is out of topic but I wanted to ask

Could the triangle offense be suitable for Wemby and company??

Not even if it was 1990.

[MannyIsGod]

The concern I have is that Peter J. Holt might be just another milquetoast failson who will dither and not take action until Wemby is halfway out the door.

We’ll find out this offseason. If the Spurs have a new president and a new experienced head coach, then maybe they can make something of the Wemby years. If Pop is back, or if they just take the “acting” label off Mitch, then might as well check out as fans.

I think this is right. I am really terrified of them keeping Johnson.

[baseline bum]

If RC isn't spending the ASB negotiating Becky's buyout and contract, then wtf is he doing?

What makes Becky any less of a yes man to Pop than Mitch? Almost feel like it's Hurley or bust.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/kevinoconnornba/status/1890210366841667855?s=46

[scott]

I think this is right. I am really terrified of them keeping Johnson.

In the (all too likely) event that we do keep Mitch (which I'm very much against), then I sure hope it at least comes with the hiring of the deepest bench of assistants ever seen. Keeping Mitch without any help behind him would immediately evaporate any good will Brian has earned from his wheeling and dealing. Ugh, I shudder to even think about it.


What makes Becky any less of a yes man to Pop than Mitch? Almost feel like it's Hurley or bust.

She might be, but I get a sense that she's a pretty proud and independent person who wouldn't accept the job if it just meant carrying out Pop's wishes as he plays Shadow Head Coach.

I'd be interested in Hurley, but I don't think he's the end-all-be-all savior he's made out to be either. His sideline antics and gimmicks aren't likely to fly in the NBA. He's just a couple steps shy of that NCAAW LSU coach, Kim Mulkey... probably a very fine coach, but has the benefit of recruiting for a top program and is kind of a circus on the sidelines.

To be clear, I'd be game for Hurley, but it's a risk as well.

Does MEM, OKC, BOS or CLE have some hot stuff assistants we can poach like teams used to do of us? I'd be mostly game for that kind of move.

[Obstructed_View]

Guys, this is out of topic but I wanted to ask

Could the triangle offense be suitable for Wemby and company??
Triangle offense is called the triple post. Victor has zero post game. He has very little face-up game. To get back on topic, the coaches on this team can't even coach Victor to hold the ball above his head before pivoting, and have not run the two-man game with Victor and CP3, Victor and Castle, or Victor and Fox.

The only reason the triple post might be an improvement is because it would require a whole new coaching staff.

[Obstructed_View]

They have a head coach is very competent growing gray hair sitting in a chair that they refuse to pay so Mitch coaches…why is this dude still allowed to make topics?

:stupid:

[Mugen]

I don't want anybody with ties to the organization unless it's Udoka, Hardy or Taylor Jenkins tbh.

Becky is not a serious candidate for an organization that should be looking to contend within the next few years, I'm sorry.

I've already given up on making the play-in this year so I really just want to see a few things before this season ends:
-Castle getting 25+ minutes each game
-Fox/Wemby/Castle getting as much run as possible to see if they have something to build upon
-Devin getting ample opportunity to turn his season around so the org has a clear picture on what to do with him in the offseason

I legit don't really care about anything else that much tbh

[baseline bum]

In the (all too likely) event that we do keep Mitch (which I'm very much against), then I sure hope it at least comes with the hiring of the deepest bench of assistants ever seen. Keeping Mitch without any help behind him would immediately evaporate any good will Brian has earned from his wheeling and dealing. Ugh, I shudder to even think about it.



She might be, but I get a sense that she's a pretty proud and independent person who wouldn't accept the job if it just meant carrying out Pop's wishes as he plays Shadow Head Coach.

I'd be interested in Hurley, but I don't think he's the end-all-be-all savior he's made out to be either. His sideline antics and gimmicks aren't likely to fly in the NBA. He's just a couple steps shy of that NCAAW LSU coach, Kim Mulkey... probably a very fine coach, but has the benefit of recruiting for a top program and is kind of a circus on the sidelines.

To be clear, I'd be game for Hurley, but it's a risk as well.

Does MEM, OKC, BOS or CLE have some hot stuff assistants we can poach like teams used to do of us? I'd be mostly game for that kind of move.

I don't really trust Pop's coaching tree to not try to be him. Which would have been fine if we meant 2003 Pop or 2013 Pop but not mellow 2024 Pop. I believe Victor when he said he wanted to be coached hard. He wants to be the GOAT and I think he believed he was getting the Pop who wasn't scared to yell at Tim Duncan, not the actual one who got scared off from being a hard ass after Aldridge's trade request.

[scott]

I don't really trust Pop's coaching tree to not try to be him. Which would have been fine if we meant 2003 Pop or 2013 Pop but not mellow 2024 Pop. I believe Victor when he said he wanted to be coached hard. He wants to be the GOAT and I think he believed he was getting the Pop who wasn't scared to yell at Tim Duncan, not the actual one who got scared off from being a hard ass after Aldridge's trade request.

I hear ya, and I guess the only thing I'd defend Becky on is that she appears to be kind of a hardass in Vegas, and she left before Pop went into total baby shit softie mode

[Trainwreck2100]

Spurs got cute, and decided to promote someone who wasn't ready. Does Mitch still have the locker room?

[Seventyniner]

Spurs got cute, and decided to promote someone who wasn't ready. Does Mitch still have the locker room?

I don't see what's "cute" about it. The head coach had a stroke 2 weeks into the season. What can you do other than promote the head assistant and hope for the best?

Blame the Spurs for not having better assistants, sure. Blame them for not being able to do a full-blown coaching search after the season already started? Makes no sense.

[RC_Drunkford]

the only one you can blame is the old man who's willing to die on the sidelines instead of letting somebody else take over. Should've just handed the reigns to Udoka years ago.

Our next head coach will be crucial. This has to be a guy who can build a long term relationship with Wemby and Castle, just like Pop did with the big 3. It has to be an elite coach who's under 60 if not under 50 years old. He has to establish a winning system and get rid of all the losers in this organization. This coaching staff hasn't won shit and should not have that kind of job security, while not showing any results.

[OldMan88]

Someone mentioned Steve Kerr…. Oh Hell No! I’m still waiting for Mitch to pull Wemby when he F’s up….. so no to Mitch. Get Fox his surgery now & then finish the tank w/CP coaching on the floor and maybe get him as head coach if he’s interested. He’d bench Wemby in a heartbeat if he F’ed up.

[slick'81]

I wanted budenholzer for years ! Him and udoka could of been had but pop couldn't let go

[Chillen]

I wanted budenholzer for years ! Him and udoka could of been had but pop couldn't let go

With the way the season is going for the Suns if they miss the playoffs he may be fired and likely available unless they can turn it around. I like Mitch but this team should have a better record now than they do. Starting to miss Pop but he needs to retire now after the stroke.

[Sugus]

I'm here waiting for some Spurstalk hero (@scott hopefully?) to come up with a deep dive post analyzing the current coaches for the 30 teams and the likelihood that they'll be fired this off-season based on each team's pre-season expectations VS how their season is playing out.......

Becky ain't coming to save us tbh. And I'm not sure that I want to go with an unknown, rookie first-time head coach for such a delicate and important position. But who is realistically going to become available in this very off-season? Spurs can't afford to delay the search for another season; next year looks to be very important for the team's development.

It is maybe the team's most important question to answer this off-season.

[SpursBills]

Would anyone be willing to give up draft capital for an existing coach? Say for example Will hardy - has this been done before and how much would it cost?

[Obstructed_View]

Would anyone be willing to give up draft capital for an existing coach? Say for example Will hardy - has this been done before and how much would it cost?
Will Hardy sucks. He has a team full of good players and can't win.

[Gandalf]

I like Joe Mazzulla and Eric Spoelstra, but no way the former leaves the Celtics to come here. Maybe Spoelstra could use a change of pace after the Butler fiasco?

No idea what it would take, but if it’s anything more than minimal, that’s one more reason to go after Hurley first.

[scott]

I'm here waiting for some Spurstalk hero (@scott hopefully?) to come up with a deep dive post analyzing the current coaches for the 30 teams and the likelihood that they'll be fired this off-season based on each team's pre-season expectations VS how their season is playing out.......

Becky ain't coming to save us tbh. And I'm not sure that I want to go with an unknown, rookie first-time head coach for such a delicate and important position. But who is realistically going to become available in this very off-season? Spurs can't afford to delay the search for another season; next year looks to be very important for the team's development.

It is maybe the team's most important question to answer this off-season.

Appreciate the vote of confidence, but that one might be a little outside of my depth. I'd be interested in reading that myself!

[scott]

Will Hardy sucks. He has a team full of good players and can't win.

Huh?