Is there a case AGAINST making a trade at the deadline?

[KobesAchilles]

And if there is: what is that case?

If there isn’t: Who would you trade for? Fox? Butler? Somebody else?

[z0sa]

I don't understand how a moron who flicks off refs like Zollins is still on the fucking team. Hope that answers your question.

[scott]

Well we are a season and a half into seeing what we have, and what do we think this FO has learned? I think that, along with what they hope to accomplish this season, are the key variable to this question.

Scenarios:

1. The Spurs want to make a play-in/play-off push

a. The Spurs feel like their young players are progressing on schedule and they think more developmental time is the key to growth. If this is true, then you'd think at a minimum the team would want to upgrade the backup C position UNLESS they feel like Bassey is also progressing on schedule and they view him as the backup of the future (I love Bassey, but I don't think he's anything more than a 3rd C/situational backup).
b. The Spurs feel like an injection of more talent or veteran experience is needed. If this is true, you'd think the Spurs would be very active in the trade market, as we have several rotation pieces that are not cutting it.


2. The Spurs want another high draft pick


a. The Spurs feel like their young players are progressing on schedule and they think more developmental time is the key to growth. This is one case where I feel like maybe you could justify not making any moves. Perhaps they feel that CP3 and Barnes are important mentors to the youth, and that having them around is key to their development. On the other hand, they could just as easily feel like moving CP3 and/or Barnes opens up more playing time for young guys and also helps us get a higher pick. So here is one scenario where maybe you are against making a trade at the deadline.
b. The Spurs feel like an injection of more talent is needed. I think in this case you'd definitely want to try and move CP3 and Barnes for picks or young prospects.


3. The Spurs are completely indifferent as to their finishing position, perfectly content with the 12th pick if that's where things finish up. (As an aside... the would be a pathetic level of complacent apathy and a good reason to believe the entire FO needs an overhaul)




This kind of just follows scenario 2a and 2b above.


So essentially, we should be against making a deadline move if 1) we don't have about the play-in and 2) we are happy with our young core and feel they just need more time and 3) we feel like CP3 and Barnes are instrumental to the young cores continued development.

It would be a pretty passive, rather chickenshit approach to long-term team building. Maybe the team would end up looking like geniuses if a core of Wemby/Vassell/Sochan/Castle became championship caliber... but I'll go ahead and say the odds are pretty heavily stacked against that.

[SpursBills]

Is there a possibility that the FO is just waiting until next year to make a move? I don't even know what targets / disgruntled stars would be available next year. But they have Collins, Barnes, Wesley, Cissoko, Branham expiring at the end of 2026 - that's 50 million in matching salary. Wemby still on a rookie contract at that time. Probably costs a lot fewer assets to trade expirings compared to 2 year contracts for neutral to negative players. Maybe a Fox-type guy requires 4 first rounders with 2 year contracts for salary match but only 2-3 lesser picks if you're giving expirings.

They might still take this year as a "development" year (stop if you've heard that before). Gives the FO as much time for growth and optimize their draft pick as possible while still taking advantage of Wemby's rookie contract.

Otherwise they're just incompetent which is also a distinct possibility.

[LeBowen]

I don't even know what targets / disgruntled stars would be available next year.

We went over it many times, there are very few suitable candidates for the Spurs if we're talking positional fit, age, asking price and contract.
Markkanen was the best option last summer, Fox will probably be the best one this summer.

Them not making any smaller moves is just incompetence. It's not like we'd instantly become good with just one trade.
We need a few smaller moves to make the roster functional. A solid backup big, another 3-D rotation wing and a second option instead of Vassell would be a cherry on top.

[scott]

This offseason is going to be pretty pivotal.

Right now, we have 5 excess FRPs (including the pseudo CHA pick). But at least 40%, and possibly 60% of them come due this summer (ATL25, CHA25, CHI25). After that, your massive war chest isn't looking all that massive any more.

If the Spurs end up having, and taking, picks 11, 12 and 16 in this draft, IMO it should be considered a MASSIVE failure by this FO. The team did an excellent job positioning itself to have excess draft capital in order to acquire a second star player. To come away instead with some shit like Asa Newell, Ben Saraf and Liam McNeeley would be a major let down. Those guys each may all turn out to be fine pros, but you're going to have to wait 3 more years for them to develop and deal with a developmental crunch. We couldn't even successfully develop 3 rookies when we were tanking and had no blockers in those guys way... how are they are going to get playing time while Wemby is trying to win?

The Spurs could reset the clock on those excess FRPs by doing another MIN20131 style trade, and while I didn't love the ROI for the #8 pick last year, I think a move like that would be far better than actually taking a handful of mid-round picks this year. Of course, this also just has the effect of pushing back the timeline and giving the FO more rope on their "patience" bullshit. It's quite the grift... preach patience and keep punting the future down the road, avoiding accountability forever. Not that they even need to do that, the head coach and President of Basketball Operations flat out said the goal was to win last season, and then went out and matched their previous 22-game win total anyway.

[scott]

I think Lauri might be back on the table this year, and maybe even cheaper than the presumed asking price last summer. A lot of that might depend on where Utah ends up in the lottery.

I also think a key driver is going to be what kind of movement we see this trade deadline, how badly (or not) certain experiments end up, and if current momentum swings certain ways. For example:

SAC is currently in the 9th seed, but surging and only 2 games back of the 6th seed. If they make the playoffs outright, that will greatly reduce the odds Fox is available. Likewise, if Fox makes All NBA, he definitely won't be available this summer (as he'll extend and at a minimum have the 6-month moratorium)
PHX has seemingly straighten themselves out somewhat, but if all they can do is finish in the 10th seed at .500, do they try to send KD or Booker to HOU for their own picks back? That would certainly leave the other one as available, you'd think. Or does PHX find a way to somehow shed Beal and get Jimmy? So much uncertainty here.
Do the Pacers try to make a consolidation move? Does that perhaps make some of their promising young guys available on the periphery for a 3rd team?
Similar question of Orlando?


Frankly there just are not a lot of "second stars" out there that are available. The team is going to have to dig deeper and possibly overpay to pry a young guy with second-star potential away from a team that is still rebuilding. I've thrown Trey Murphy III out there before. He's a guy I wouldn't mind overpaying for. Great length, good enough of a defender, high level athleticism, on a bargain contract. He started the year off in a bit of a shooting slump, but his 3 ball is starting to come around. He's historically been a good shooter in his career. NOP doesn't want to trade him (rightfully so), but they might be in a position where they can't afford to pass up a great offer. We need to be thinking of other guys in this mold (or perhaps even sneakier), because there are not going to be a lot of teams eager to give up established stars. It might be in our interest to look at teams like OKC, BOS, CLE and see if there is some talent on those teams that is blocked by established players and just need an opportunity. Likewise, we need to be looking for the Derrick White's of the world: solid role players stuck in losing situations who need a change in scenery and usage (not to be confused with USG%) to unlock their full potential.

TL;DR: Spurs FO needs to do their fucking jobs.

[LeBowen]

SAC is currently in the 9th seed, but surging and only 2 games back of the 6th seed. If they make the playoffs outright, that will greatly reduce the odds Fox is available. Likewise, if Fox makes All NBA, he definitely won't be available this summer (as he'll extend and at a minimum have the 6-month moratorium)


Fwiw, Fischer is saying Kings are leading the race for Cam Johnson.

As you said, if we can't get a second star we need to get like 4 elite role players which would transform the team.
Hope that Castle develops, surround him and Wemby with good 3-D players and a 6th man scorer.

[mo7888]

The only argument for not making a trade is if Wembanyama doesn't want one for some reason. I'm really hoping the FO makes a positive move before Wembanyama requests one though. I prefer when stars aren't calling the shots, but in our case it may become necessary.

[mo7888]

I think Lauri might be back on the table this year, and maybe even cheaper than the presumed asking price last summer. A lot of that might depend on where Utah ends up in the lottery.

I also think a key driver is going to be what kind of movement we see this trade deadline, how badly (or not) certain experiments end up, and if current momentum swings certain ways. For example:

SAC is currently in the 9th seed, but surging and only 2 games back of the 6th seed. If they make the playoffs outright, that will greatly reduce the odds Fox is available. Likewise, if Fox makes All NBA, he definitely won't be available this summer (as he'll extend and at a minimum have the 6-month moratorium)
PHX has seemingly straighten themselves out somewhat, but if all they can do is finish in the 10th seed at .500, do they try to send KD or Booker to HOU for their own picks back? That would certainly leave the other one as available, you'd think. Or does PHX find a way to somehow shed Beal and get Jimmy? So much uncertainty here.
Do the Pacers try to make a consolidation move? Does that perhaps make some of their promising young guys available on the periphery for a 3rd team?
Similar question of Orlando?


Frankly there just are not a lot of "second stars" out there that are available. The team is going to have to dig deeper and possibly overpay to pry a young guy with second-star potential away from a team that is still rebuilding. I've thrown Trey Murphy III out there before. He's a guy I wouldn't mind overpaying for. Great length, good enough of a defender, high level athleticism, on a bargain contract. He started the year off in a bit of a shooting slump, but his 3 ball is starting to come around. He's historically been a good shooter in his career. NOP doesn't want to trade him (rightfully so), but they might be in a position where they can't afford to pass up a great offer. We need to be thinking of other guys in this mold (or perhaps even sneakier), because there are not going to be a lot of teams eager to give up established stars. It might be in our interest to look at teams like OKC, BOS, CLE and see if there is some talent on those teams that is blocked by established players and just need an opportunity. Likewise, we need to be looking for the Derrick White's of the world: solid role players stuck in losing situations who need a change in scenery and usage (not to be confused with USG%) to unlock their full potential.

TL;DR: Spurs FO needs to do their fucking jobs.

Probably our best chance is facilitating a trade as a 3rd party by supplying the picks that a contender may not have for a choice young player. Something like the Brooklyn/ indy deal we discussed or maybe Herb from nola if a contender tries to acquire Zion or Ingram... Something along those lines.

[LeBowen]

Probably our best chance is facilitating a trade as a 3rd party by supplying the picks that a contender may not have for a choice young player. Something like the Brooklyn/ indy deal we discussed or maybe Herb from nola if a contender tries to acquire Zion or Ingram... Something along those lines.

Murphy and Herb are unrealistic targets, NOLA has no reason to even consider trading them.
Btw, Herb injured his shoulder again.

They're actually in a very good position. They'll get a top5 pick and they have a solid core if they can stay healthy.
DJ/Hawkins/Murphy/Herb/Missi with $30M cap space if they cut Zion. $60M if they trade CJ's expiring.

Would be a perfect landing spot for Flagg, tbh.

[dn0774]

I don't understand how a moron who flicks off refs like Zollins is still on the fucking team. Hope that answers your question.

Competent front offices know better than to willingly pay a Zach Collins $18 million next season. He has literal negative value in a trade.

[mo7888]

Murphy and Herb are unrealistic targets, NOLA has no reason to even consider trading them.
Btw, Herb injured his shoulder again.

They're actually in a very good position. They'll get a top5 pick and they have a solid core if they can stay healthy.
DJ/Hawkins/Murphy/Herb/Missi with $30M cap space if they cut Zion. $60M if they trade CJ's expiring.

Would be a perfect landing spot for Flagg, tbh.
Im not suggesting targeting anyone specifically. I'm saying that being opportunistic may be our best chance to grab a young player. For instance if Nola trades Zion somewhere and Herb is part of the deal to make salaries and player spots work, and the receiveing team doesn't have draft capital, then we might be able to steal something out of it by supplying picks. That said, don't focus on Herb, Murphy, or anybody in particular because we aren't 'targeting', we're looking for a scenario where we have leverage. It could be any larger deal out there.

[scott]

Murphy and Herb are unrealistic targets, NOLA has no reason to even consider trading them.
Btw, Herb injured his shoulder again.

They're actually in a very good position. They'll get a top5 pick and they have a solid core if they can stay healthy.
DJ/Hawkins/Murphy/Herb/Missi with $30M cap space if they cut Zion. $60M if they trade CJ's expiring.

Would be a perfect landing spot for Flagg, tbh.

Yeah, I hope they get Flagg, tbh, though it wouldn't be great for us in the Southwest Division. New Orleans is full of great people, they deserve better. I'm of the opinion they should get whatever they can for Zion and BI now, because they don't really need either of those guys to have an exciting core going forward. That core is significantly better than ours outside of Wemby.

[scott]

Im not suggesting targeting anyone specifically. I'm saying that being opportunistic may be our best chance to grab a young player. For instance if Nola trades Zion somewhere and Herb is part of the deal to make salaries and player spots work, and the receiveing team doesn't have drsft capital, the we might be able to steal something out of it by supplying picks. That said, don't focus on Herb, Murphy, or anybody in particular because we aren't 'targeting', we're looking for a scenario where we have leverage. It could be any larger deal out there.

Yep, we need to be looking for creative ways to make use of our excess draft capital. If we're still holding those picks on draft day, their value is going to be diminished and teams will dare us to simply take the picks if we don't accept their bargain offers. Getting left holding the bag on those picks will be malpractice.

[scott]

I'd happily send Vassell, ATL25 and the worst of ATL/SA27 for Trey Murphy III. Is anyone against that? Does NOP accept that?

[LeBowen]

Im not suggesting targeting anyone specifically. I'm saying that being opportunistic may be our best chance to grab a young player. For instance if Nola trades Zion somewhere and Herb is part of the deal to make salaries and player spots work, and the receiveing team doesn't have drsft capital, the we might be able to steal something out of it by supplying picks. That said, don't focus on Herb, Murphy, or anybody in particular because we aren't 'targeting', we're looking for a scenario where we have leverage. It could be any larger deal out there.

I get what you're saying, it's just that some users in here, mainly scott, suggested Murphy. I like him as a player, but he's not a realistic target.
My suggestions are NAW (FA), Naz Reid (FA), LaRavia (FA) and Aldama (RFA). I doubt Grizzlies will throw a bag at him and he'd be great for us. He's having a better season than Naz, tbh.


Yeah, I hope they get Flagg, tbh, though it wouldn't be great for us in the Southwest Division. New Orleans is full of great people, they deserve better. I'm of the opinion they should get whatever they can for Zion and BI now, because they don't really need either of those guys to have an exciting core going forward. That core is significantly better than ours outside of Wemby.

NOLA had their fair share of talent influx.
As I said before, I want Mormons lead by Danny Ainge to get the next great white hope just because of the outrage it would create among mainstream media and casual fans. :rollin
And if anyone deserves at #1 pick, it's Utah. The only franchise that never lost 60 games.

[mo7888]

I'd happily send Vassell, ATL25 and the worst of ATL/SA27 for Trey Murphy III. Is anyone against that? Does NOP accept that?

I actually think there's a decent chance that they would.

[mo7888]

I get what you're saying, it's just that some users in here, mainly scott, suggested Murphy. I like him as a player, but he's not a realistic target.
My suggestions are NAW (FA), Naz Reid (FA), LaRavia (FA) and Aldama (RFA). I doubt Grizzlies will throw a bag at him and he'd be great for us. He's having a better season than Naz, tbh.



NOLA had their fair share of talent influx.
As I said before, I want Mormons lead by Danny Ainge to get the next great white hope just because of the outrage it would create among mainstream media and casual fans. :rollin
And if anyone deserves at #1 pick, it's Utah. The only franchise that never lost 60 games.

I like those targets that you list, but those are summer deals. I'm looking for something sooner knowing I'll probably be disappointed.

[Mr. Body]

Deadline trades come at a premium and are usually short-term patches. It's going to be hard enough to make more of the play-in as it is. Despite how much people are desperate for any trade to happen - as if trading was the point - I don't see much beyond a possible small move here or there. Not until draft and summer.

[scott]

I get what you're saying, it's just that some users in here, mainly scott, suggested Murphy. I like him as a player, but he's not a realistic target.
My suggestions are NAW (FA), Naz Reid (FA), LaRavia (FA) and Aldama (RFA). I doubt Grizzlies will throw a bag at him and he'd be great for us. He's having a better season than Naz, tbh.




Yep, I might be the only one riding the Murphy train. I agree he's not a realistic target, at least not without paying a significant price. If people want to bargain shop, you aren't going to get guys like Murphy. 6 months before Dejounte was traded, everyone here said he was untouchable. My point is that everyone has their price. Murphy is attainable, but it's going to take an offer NOP can't refuse and you only make that kind of offer if you really believe in the player (I happen to be that high on Murphy, but I might be on an island amongst Spurs fans in that regard).

I like all of the guys on your list, but none of them have second star potential, which is more what I'm talking about at this point. There are always opportunities to pick up the supporting cast.

[mo7888]

Yep, I might be the only one riding the Murphy train. I agree he's not a realistic target, at least not without paying a significant price. If people want to bargain shop, you aren't going to get guys like Murphy. 6 months before Dejounte was traded, everyone here said he was untouchable. My point is that everyone has their price. Murphy is attainable, but it's going to take an offer NOP can't refuse and you only make that kind of offer if you really believe in the player (I happen to be that high on Murphy, but I might be on an island amongst Spurs fans in that regard).

I like all of the guys on your list, but none of them have second star potential, which is more what I'm talking about at this point. There are always opportunities to pick up the supporting cast.

More than a 2nd star, I'd rather have a few rotation players so Wemby has a supporting cast. Then look for the 2nd star this summer

[LeBowen]

I like all of the guys on your list, but none of them have second star potential, which is more what I'm talking about at this point. There are always opportunities to pick up the supporting cast.

I don't think we'll have an opportunity to get a potential second star in free agency any time soon, I've given up on that idea.

[scott]

I don't think we'll have an opportunity to get a potential second star in free agency any time soon, I've given up on that idea.

Yeah, those streets are pretty rough. I'd be down for a build where we have multiple #3s instead of a true #2, but we don't even have one #3 right now unfortunately (and I don't see any of the guys you mentioned as being one of those either). Vassell is closest, but honestly I think he's more like a 4th option on a playoff team (and Naz, the best guy on your list, I'd say the same about). Castle has a chance to elevate to that level, and deserves a long leash.

Our FO needs to get creative and take swings with the kind of upside to at least be a solid #3 (I don't even love Cam Johnson that much, but he's one of those guys). Otherwise, I still don't particularly love where we are going.

Let's say we sign Naz and Aldama to be our starting front court next to Wemby. Let's say we also use the #11, #12 and #16 in the draft to take Saraf, Philon and McNeeley (I guess?) and somehow move Keldon for something tbd

2025-26 Spurs:

Castle/Philon/Jones
Vassell/Saraf
Aldama/Champ/McNeeley
Reid/Sochan/Barnes
Wembanyama/Bassey/Collins

That team has a lot fewer holes, but looks like it still caps out as the 6 seed unless Castle or one of those rookies really breaks through.

I actually like the idea of adding two of the 3 guys on your list (with Naz and Aldama as my favorites), but we still need something.

Kind of depressing, tbh :lol

[The Truth #6]

Most FO make drastic moves to buy time to convince their owner they are making progress. We have the opposite problem. Our FO can keep their jobs by doing nothing and preaching patience. Patience helped in the past with the Big 3, but we are in a much more dynamic situation. I'm taking the economic self preservation interpretation of our FO's approach and saying they will continue to do the minimum because they can.

[Strategic]

It’s not a case that I like, but the FO may believe this roster needs another year to develop. After all, if the Spurs would have won just 5 of the 20 games they’ve lost, they would be sitting 5th in the West. I think most of us can recall at least 5 loses they should have won. FO may be banking on another years maturity to remedy these baffling loses. If this is their thinking, I hope they can add a couple of dudes before the start of next season. Yes BB Gods, I’ll have a serviceable 6’10” forward and a perimeter ace.

[mo7888]

Yeah, those streets are pretty rough. I'd be down for a build where we have multiple #3s instead of a true #2, but we don't even have one #3 right now unfortunately (and I don't see any of the guys you mentioned as being one of those either). Vassell is closest, but honestly I think he's more like a 4th option on a playoff team (and Naz, the best guy on your list, I'd say the same about). Castle has a chance to elevate to that level, and deserves a long leash.

Our FO needs to get creative and take swings with the kind of upside to at least be a solid #3 (I don't even love Cam Johnson that much, but he's one of those guys). Otherwise, I still don't particularly love where we are going.

Let's say we sign Naz and Aldama to be our starting front court next to Wemby. Let's say we also use the #11, #12 and #16 in the draft to take Saraf, Philon and McNeeley (I guess?) and somehow move Keldon for something tbd

2025-26 Spurs:

Castle/Philon/Jones
Vassell/Saraf
Aldama/Champ/McNeeley
Reid/Sochan/Barnes
Wembanyama/Bassey/Collins

That team has a lot fewer holes, but looks like it still caps out as the 6 seed unless Castle or one of those rookies really breaks through.

I actually like the idea of adding two of the 3 guys on your list (with Naz and Aldama as my favorites), but we still need something.

Kind of depressing, tbh :lol

It's depressing but, we'd still have Keldon + Zollins expiring contract and a lot of picks to try and acquire a true #2. It's much better than where we currently stand.

[Pauleta14]

I don't get why some of you are acting as if there was a supermarket where, whenever we feel the need, we could go a make a trade...

Market opportunities and needs are what drives trades.

I don't expect any trade personally because I'm afraid PATFO is more than satisfied why where the team's at.

I'm sure guys like Sochan Vassell or even Keldon are 100% part of the future plans so won't see any trade in their positions and nobody will ever take Collins's contract, which eliminates the option of trading for a backup big man.

[scott]

It’s not a case that I like, but the FO may believe this roster needs another year to develop. After all, if the Spurs would have won just 5 of the 20 games they’ve lost, they would be sitting 5th in the West. I think most of us can recall at least 5 loses they should have won. FO may be banking on another years maturity to remedy these baffling loses. If this is their thinking, I hope they can add a couple of dudes before the start of next season. Yes BB Gods, I’ll have a serviceable 6’10” forward and a perimeter ace.

I think this is wholly in the realm of possibility, and it's very depressing to think about... because I don't think there is a single player on our team aside from Wemby who would start on any of the top teams in the league. If they were all rookies, that would be one thing, but only Castle has that excuse. Vassell and Sochan should be further ahead by now if they were gonna be those dudes.

[Mr. Body]

I think this is wholly in the realm of possibility, and it's very depressing to think about... because I don't think there is a single player on our team aside from Wemby who would start on any of the top teams in the league. If they were all rookies, that would be one thing, but only Castle has that excuse. Vassell and Sochan should be further ahead by now if they were gonna be those dudes.

Sochan and Vassel are both very good players who are still developing. Castle, too. Leaving aside Barnes and Paul. Champ and Tre are good rotation guys. It's just endemic of this board to think all these players are crap and that's just straight up wrong.

[timtonymanu]

Tre a good rotation guy :lol :lol

[Mr. Body]

It’s not a case that I like, but the FO may believe this roster needs another year to develop. After all, if the Spurs would have won just 5 of the 20 games they’ve lost, they would be sitting 5th in the West. I think most of us can recall at least 5 loses they should have won. FO may be banking on another years maturity to remedy these baffling loses. If this is their thinking, I hope they can add a couple of dudes before the start of next season. Yes BB Gods, I’ll have a serviceable 6’10” forward and a perimeter ace.

The team seems to have made it pretty clear that they're thinking the next decade plus rather than the next year. They want to win games but they're not going to make expensive moves in terms of burning assets or using up valuable cap space. I don't know how many times this has to be said. Many people on ST are completely out of step with the franchise and think we should burn lots of assets and cap space on maybe players instead of sound moves. Where would that get us? In three or four years, screwed. We're like the Cavs with early LeBron.

I don't know what the right moves are, and a problem is that how good Barnes and Paul have been, they won't be here much longer and have to be replaced. But I am confident that when they tell us their timeframe they aren't lying.

[Mr. Body]

Tre a good rotation guy :lol :lol

Yeah. Are you a fucking dope or what.

[Strategic]

I don't know what the right moves are, and a problem is that how good Barnes and Paul have been, they won't be here much longer and have to be replaced. But I am confident that when they tell us their timeframe they aren't lying.
I don’t have problems with Barnes age. Kinda wishing Tobias Harris would have walked thru Spurs’ door instead, though. They’re the same age, but Harris seems to bring a little more court attitude than Barnes. Maybe an attitude would help this team bounce back in some of these mid game meltdowns. Oh well. PATFO we’re always bringing in different timeline guys to try to fit with the big 3. One of the keys to the big 3’s success was that Manu and Tony were both younger than Timmy. If we’re wanting that scenario for Vic, then we’re still waiting on the draft.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I hope they get Flagg, tbh, though it wouldn't be great for us in the Southwest Division. New Orleans is full of great people, they deserve better. I'm of the opinion they should get whatever they can for Zion and BI now, because they don't really need either of those guys to have an exciting core going forward. That core is significantly better than ours outside of Wemby.

Last thing I want to see is a team with a front office that can turn crap picks around 20 into solid players like Murphy and Missi getting a superstar talent like Flagg or Harper. The conference is already enough of a bloodbath with OKC, Houston, Memphis, Denver, Dallas, and Minnesota all with high end young talent. If we don't luck into Flagg or Harper jfc I hope they both go east.

[scott]

Last thing I want to see is a team with a front office that can turn crap picks around 20 into solid players like Murphy and Missi getting a superstar talent like Flagg or Harper. The conference is already enough of a bloodbath with OKC, Houston, Memphis, Denver, Dallas, and Minnesota all with high end young talent. If we don't luck into Flagg or Harper jfc I hope they both go east.

That would definitely be best for the Spurs... but I'm also a fan of the sport overall, and a DJM/Murphy/Flagg/Missi team would be entertaining. Let's face it BB, our FO isn't equipped to have us competing anytime soon anyway, might as well enjoy the rest of the league.

[baseline bum]

That would definitely be best for the Spurs... but I'm also a fan of the sport overall, and a DJM/Murphy/Flagg/Missi team would be entertaining. Let's face it BB, our FO isn't equipped to have us competing anytime soon anyway, might as well enjoy the rest of the league.

Hell naw Wemby is still enough to have this team competing for titles in 3-4 years if they can even be mid in the draft and trades. Let Flagg resurrect the Hornets or the Bullets

[scott]

Hell naw Wemby is still enough to have this team competing for titles in 3-4 years if they can even be mid in the draft and trades. Let Flagg resurrect the Hornets or the Bullets

bruh, we're looking at 1991-1996 DRob era Spurs all over again, except this time without the playoff appearances. We're gonna be in Year 8 of Devin, talking about how he's still developing :lol

[ismael-robert]

We'll compete next year...its about year 6 dev n tre

[tbdog]

Several reasons.

More options during the offseason.
Due to new salary floor rules, unbalanced salary trades are more available during the offseason.
Roster spots allow unbalanced 3 for 1 deals in offseason.

[Jordan Jackson]

I'd happily send Vassell, ATL25 and the worst of ATL/SA27 for Trey Murphy III. Is anyone against that? Does NOP accept that?

I’d personally drive him to the airport. But I don’t think NOLA takes that.

It’s really something that the Pelicans have a better crop of young players than the Spurs. Their season has been riddled with injury and Zion is a fat ass tanking the team and his value. But when healthy they’ve been pretty good.

I watch them because I’m a big Herb and Trey fan.

Really amazing. So much talent in the league and Brian Wright has found a way to avoid most of it. Impressive stuff.

[jjspur]

The spurs are pretty close to the point where they say we need a small trade to help us get to the play in ( I think that's all they'll do if anything) or they say screw it and just go with the squad we currently have and not waste any assets. The issue is that we have a lot of assets and we should use some of them before they start losing some of their value. We have at least two firsts and 2 seconds for this next draft. I don't see the spurs adding 4 young players so maybe trading 1 or 2 of them for a decent player could help the team in the short run and the long run. We'll see soon enough. So long as they don't trade away the farm for a few magic beans, they'll be ok.

[KobesAchilles]

The team seems to have made it pretty clear that they're thinking the next decade plus rather than the next year. They want to win games but they're not going to make expensive moves in terms of burning assets or using up valuable cap space. I don't know how many times this has to be said. Many people on ST are completely out of step with the franchise and think we should burn lots of assets and cap space on maybe players instead of sound moves. Where would that get us? In three or four years, screwed. We're like the Cavs with early LeBron.

I don't know what the right moves are, and a problem is that how good Barnes and Paul have been, they won't be here much longer and have to be replaced. But I am confident that when they tell us their timeframe they aren't lying.
When is the last time we made the playoffs? Do you even know the answer to that. And when you google the answer I want you to ask yourself: is going on year 6 of not making the playoffs not patient enough for you? Is it 10 years of not making the playoffs in a row? Is that how patient we have to be? Bc of all the stupid shit you’ve said, you can’t be taken seriously when you say shit like: Sochan and Vassell are “very good player.” Very good? Very good? How? Explain how either one is very good.

Then you continue and say stupid shit like we have to be patient or else we will be the Cavs and LeBron. They made a fucking finals. And they had several first round picks to surround LeBron they just chose the wrong players. They kept LeBron surrounded by shitty players who wouldn’t be starters on any other title contender. I wonder what team that sounds like. Hmmm. Also your dumbass thinks that making a trade automatically means we are getting rid of every single one of our FRPs. I don’t know why you think that way. I don’t know if you’re unaware that when you trade for a player there isn’t a rule that says we have to trade all of our draft picks for that player. Hopefully now you can live your life knowing this fact and stop saying the same tired line about we would get rid of all our draft capital for player X. It’s annoying as fuck.

If Vassell and Sochan remain starters on our team going forward I can guarantee that we will not make the playoffs any of those years. Also last thing you’re wrong about is that Tre is a good rotation player. He isn’t. He is undersized, can’t shoot and can’t defend and can’t beat his man off the dribble. He’s pretty fucking useless as a player and I hope he is gone next year too.

[scott]

Great news, KobesAchilles, it looks like DET has a decent shot at the playoffs, leaving us in sole possession of the 2nd longest active playoff drought. If only that pesky Hornets team could get out of their own way we might have a shot at the top all by ourselves while waiting for Devin to make that 9th year leap

[dn0774]

I know BWright has had the Pop/RC training wheels on for awhile but how can his job security not even be a question? I am just mentally preparing myself for a massive Sochan overpay this summer, we are once again going to bid against ourselves (Zack Collin’s style) and end up with a fundamentally flawed player for an amount no other team would’ve come close to offering.

I would actually rather the Spurs not make a move before the deadline, but only because it’s looking like it will be slim pickings and any needle moving trades will have to be overpays most likely. This summer on the other hand will be career defining for Wright (good or bad), huge draft, Sochan extension, pressure to find Wemby legit help/2nd star. Not outright making the playoffs in year 3 of Wemby would be a massive embarrassment and leave 1 more year of Vic on a cheap rookie deal. The “Wemby wants out” narratives will appear and gain steam quickly etc.

[z0sa]

Competent front offices know better than to willingly pay a Zach Collins $18 million next season. He has literal negative value in a trade.

Yeah, in a vacuum. Nobody should want him.

Used to be, our FO got over on other front offices.. What happened? You don't fix a fuckup (the contract overpay) without finding some other guy who's even more of a sucker than you were, just saying. Or is the League so smart now? More like, our FO sucks too much now.

Honestly don't want to hear about their struggles. They need to find a way.

Or get fired.

[Bruno]

What Spurs should do is one thing. What Spurs will do is another one.

Right now, everything point towards Spurs sticking to their slow rebuild plan and doing no significant trades at the trade deadline.

Not my fault, sorry...

[RC_Drunkford]

even worse is that we're the only franchise in the NBA that hasn't been able to string a 5-game winning streak together in the 2020s :lol Let's start with that

The Spurs should absolutely try to package Tre Jones expiring contract and one of the other end of the bench scrubs for a legit rotation player. That would be a nice start.

[rankingtear]

The case is CP3 is a few months from 40 one hamstring strain and were done. You can rebuild the bench and it wouldn't matter if he goes down.

[CGD]

Dylan Harper and Cooper Flagg

[LeBowen]

The case is CP3 is a few months from 40 one hamstring strain and were done. You can rebuild the bench and it wouldn't matter if he goes down.

What kind of reasoning is that? Sometimes I'm just amazing how awful your takes can be.
Noone is talking about stop-gap solutions, we're mostly mentioning players in their prime who would be good for at least 3 years, if not more.

You're in for a bad surprise if you think that we can rebuild a horrible team in one summer and start competing right away.
With each passing deadline with no movement, we're just setting ourselves further behind.
Wouldn't it be better to have two legit rotation pieces right now so they can get adapt to the team and be ready at the start of the next season?

We're not getting anywhere this season, but it doesn't mean that we can't improve the team for the future.

For example, C is our biggest need right now, the entire rotation is broken without a reliable backup for Wemby.
There are a handful solid backups available and we'd only have to use some of our 20 SRPs.
If we're talking summer and free agency, these are the best available players: Brook Lopez, Capela, Adams, Looney, Drummond, Deandre, Plumlee, Horford.
Just a bunch of old and washed players.
We should be in for Aldama and Naz Reid, but they're not actual bigs, more of a PF/C hybrids.

We could've had Richards for nothing, he just had a 21/11 game in his debut for the Suns.
Valanciunas, Vucevic and John Collins are available. There's not a single valid reason why PATFO shouldn't pursue one of them.

[Dex]

Dylan Harper and Cooper Flagg

We are WELL past the point of being high enough in the draft for those two...unless we get some luck from our other draft picks. Winning or losing doesn't affect those.

[scott]

What Spurs should do is one thing. What Spurs will do is another one.

Right now, everything point towards Spurs sticking to their slow rebuild plan and doing no significant trades at the trade deadline.

Not my fault, sorry...

This is a true statement, and bears repeating... but that should also not stop fans from discussing what they think the FO should do on a fan discussion board. Some posters (not you, per se) seem to not grasp that.

[scott]

Valanciunas, Vucevic and John Collins are available. There's not a single valid reason why PATFO shouldn't pursue one of them.

While I agree with your overall premise, I actually think there are quite valid reasons why PAFTO shouldn't pursue Vooch and Collins.

1) Vooch - high priced and probably wants to start. If we plan on starting two bigs again (which maybe we should?), then Vooch makes sense. Otherwise, he doesn't really make a lot of sense as a backup C (which is the problem we are trying to solve), IMO
2) Collins - need to get a feeling on whether he will opt this summer or not. If he does, then there is no need to spend assets to acquire him now. He also doesn't solve the backup C issue, if we got him he should be out starting 4.

We shouldn't be looking to pay our backup C $20-26MM/yr. If not for Nurkic getting benched, we'd already have the highest paid backup C in the entire league (Nurk has Zollins beat by $90k :lol). Even if Zach Collins were the best backup C in the entire league, our backup only plays 12-15 mpg and we don't need to pay the backup C position over $1MM/mpg.

It should be easy to find a backup C with a few SRPs that is on a cheap deal though. There really isn't any reason for any backup C to make more than $10MM/yr these days.

[LeBowen]

1) Vooch - high priced and probably wants to start. If we plan on starting two bigs again (which maybe we should?), then Vooch makes sense. Otherwise, he doesn't really make a lot of sense as a backup C (which is the problem we are trying to solve), IMO

While I agree that he would want to start, the reported asking price is two seconds because they want to keep their pick.
I don't think Chicago would deal with us as long as we have that pick and it wouldn't be smart to help them get worse.


2) Collins - need to get a feeling on whether he will opt this summer or not. If he does, then there is no need to spend assets to acquire him now. He also doesn't solve the backup C issue, if we got him he should be out starting 4.

He'll definitely opt in, noone is giving him $26M a year with so little cap space around the league.
He can match up against most backup bigs and we'd have Bassey or another energy guy to fill in when needed.
I actually think getting Collins and one of Aldama/Naz would make us a really interesting team.

Wemby/Collins/Aldama(or Naz) would be able to cover the C position with Bassey as a situational option.

[scott]

Interesting, I see Aldama as more of a big wing, like a Lauri-lite on offense who can actually play defense, but he probably can withstand some backup C minutes. (Side note, I also view Naz and as much more of a big wing as well. He'd definitely be our starting PF, but capable of some small ball C minutes, similar to what Sochan has done at times though Naz would be more effective just because he's bigger).

Wemby/Jollins/Aldama I'd actually like more as a starting frontcourt. We'd have unmatched length, but each of those guys has some perimeter versatility on defense and they can all shoot. I think Wemby/Naz/Aldama does the same thing, but I probably like Jollins slightly more than Naz because of the rebounding, but I'd be more than happy with either. Naz and Jollins doesn't work as well, IMO, because they are a little more redundant. I think Santi is a little more versatile with his movement.

I'd go for Jollins or Naz and Aldama and still get a legit backup C, personally. And I think LaRavia is a good, less expensive, fallback option to any of those guys if you can't land them.

Edit:

In this scenario, my ideal lineup would entail Vassell and Sochan moving to the bench unit, and look something like this:

CP3*/Tre/Blake
Castle/Vassell/TBD
Aldama/Champ/Barnes
Jollins/Sochan/Barnes
Wemby/Jonas/Bassey

This is before factoring in any potential draft picks. PG still remains the biggest hole - who knows if CP3 retires or comes back, which is why I have an *. I just assume Tre Jones for now. You could dream for a moment that you get lucky and land Dylan Harper, and he slots into your starting PG if the BBall gods deemed us worthy of such fortune.

[Mal]

Current standing is ahead of the schedule for this team, so they let it play out

[LeBowen]

Current standing is ahead of the schedule for this team, so they let it play out

Yeah, we're doing great. Might break the magical 35 wins threshold after 6 years!

[timtonymanu]

When is the last time we made the playoffs? Do you even know the answer to that. And when you google the answer I want you to ask yourself: is going on year 6 of not making the playoffs not patient enough for you? Is it 10 years of not making the playoffs in a row? Is that how patient we have to be? Bc of all the stupid shit you’ve said, you can’t be taken seriously when you say shit like: Sochan and Vassell are “very good player.” Very good? Very good? How? Explain how either one is very good.

Then you continue and say stupid shit like we have to be patient or else we will be the Cavs and LeBron. They made a fucking finals. And they had several first round picks to surround LeBron they just chose the wrong players. They kept LeBron surrounded by shitty players who wouldn’t be starters on any other title contender. I wonder what team that sounds like. Hmmm. Also your dumbass thinks that making a trade automatically means we are getting rid of every single one of our FRPs. I don’t know why you think that way. I don’t know if you’re unaware that when you trade for a player there isn’t a rule that says we have to trade all of our draft picks for that player. Hopefully now you can live your life knowing this fact and stop saying the same tired line about we would get rid of all our draft capital for player X. It’s annoying as fuck.

If Vassell and Sochan remain starters on our team going forward I can guarantee that we will not make the playoffs any of those years. Also last thing you’re wrong about is that Tre is a good rotation player. He isn’t. He is undersized, can’t shoot and can’t defend and can’t beat his man off the dribble. He’s pretty fucking useless as a player and I hope he is gone next year too.

Notice how he turns into crickets when you rebuttal his retarded takes with evidence.

[Raven]

unless you're trading castle, you are guaranteed to get robbed in a trade. We have done a pitiful job at raising the value of tradable players.

[Mal]

Yeah, we're doing great. Might break the magical 35 wins threshold after 6 years!

I mean, that maybe the goal. There is non superstar, that matches Wemby prime years, available.
Stupid trade for Cam Johnson may require 2 frp

[Bruno]

This is a true statement, and bears repeating... but that should also not stop fans from discussing what they think the FO should do on a fan discussion board. Some posters (not you, per se) seem to not grasp that.

Yep, it wasn't at all a post to say don't talk about that.
It was more like a friendly advice not to get too caught in all these trade rumors because Spurs will likely do nothing and you might end up being disappointed if you think otherwise.

As fans, we have no other choices that to accept this slow rebuild. To me, the best way to deal with that is not to be too much invested in Spurs right now. It's kinda frustrating to know Spurs could be significantly better if they decided it (Spurs could have improved quite a lot their team by trading for Nick Richards, for example).
I find it's interesting to see how the potential future pieces are either looking good like Wembanyama, Castle and Sochan or not so good like Vassell or Johnson but I'm not overly happy/sad by wins/loses. It's hard to root for a team that isn't build to win.

[scott]

Yep, it wasn't at all a post to say don't talk about that.
It was more like a friendly advice not to get too caught in all these trade rumors because Spurs will likely do nothing and you might end up being disappointed if you think otherwise.

As fans, we have no other choices that to accept this slow rebuild. To me, the best way to deal with that is not to be too much invested in Spurs right now. It's kinda frustrating to know Spurs could be significantly better if they decided it (Spurs could have improved quite a lot their team by trading for Nick Richards, for example).
I find it's interesting to see how the potential future pieces are either looking good like Wembanyama, Castle and Sochan or not so good like Vassell or Johnson but I'm not overly happy/sad by wins/loses. It's hard to root for a team that isn't build to win.

Yep, at the end of the day - this website is just the virtual water cooler. Hopefully no one gets invested in any of the ideas shared on this board... since none of us get a vote behind those closed FO doors!

[100%duncan]

Yep, it wasn't at all a post to say don't talk about that.
It was more like a friendly advice not to get too caught in all these trade rumors because Spurs will likely do nothing and you might end up being disappointed if you think otherwise.

As fans, we have no other choices that to accept this slow rebuild. To me, the best way to deal with that is not to be too much invested in Spurs right now. It's kinda frustrating to know Spurs could be significantly better if they decided it (Spurs could have improved quite a lot their team by trading for Nick Richards, for example).
I find it's interesting to see how the potential future pieces are either looking good like Wembanyama, Castle and Sochan or not so good like Vassell or Johnson but I'm not overly happy/sad by wins/loses. It's hard to root for a team that isn't build to win.

Most sensible take here but really hard to apply in reality when the team just plays awful poor BBIQ games. And then you also remember that there's actually no plans being done by the FO :lol

[slick'81]

We all knew it was a slow rebuild through the draft. Shits getting ugly

[CGD]

We are WELL past the point of being high enough in the draft for those two...unless we get some luck from our other draft picks. Winning or losing doesn't affect those.

No. It’s a lottery ticket regardless. Case in point: 2024 Atlanta Hawks.

To be clear I’m not advocating for this position, it’s just a response to this thread’s title. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Spurs FO isn’t thinking this way though.