Spurs are last in the NBA in box outs

[RC_Drunkford]

somebody has to explain to me why our players are not boxing out? Is our coaching staff not teaching them basic basketball? We are dead last in the NBA and this has been a huge problem for a while now. Sniffers will probably say this is another genius stealth tank strategy :lol

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/box-outs?dir=D&sort=BOX_OUTS

[Mnky]

This bothers me more than anything else. The majority of the team is a safety cone when they don't have the ball or their match up doesn't have the ball.

They aren't ready to intercept passes, pickup loose balls, rebound, or box out.

Spurs have talent. These guys really just don't know ball well. Got to wonder about the coaching and accountability with such consistent inability to play a full game of normal basketball.

[stnick2261]

I wish we had Rasho still. For as much heat as he took for not rebounding as much as he should, he definitely boxed out effectively and helped teammates get the rebound.

[TDomination]

Not boxing out and not rebounding cost us a championship already.

Extremely frustrating when we allow so many 2nd chance opportunities.

[Duncan2177]

That is ridiculous.

[SpursBills]

This is actually one of my biggest complaints with Castle so far. I’m fine with him shooting it poorly early in his career, and the playmaking will come along. But if you know you’re a liability shooting and your advantage is that you’re stronger than most guys and literally as tall and long as jimmy butler, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be contributing more on the boards.

[LeBowen]

This is actually one of my biggest complaints with Castle so far. I’m fine with him shooting it poorly early in his career, and the playmaking will come along. But if you know you’re a liability shooting and your advantage is that you’re stronger than most guys and literally as tall and long as jimmy butler, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be contributing more on the boards.

Ther's a reason, he's the point of attack defender.
His rebounding is underwhelming, but in most situations help defenders are the problem because they just ball watch and don't box out their matchups attacking the glass after a shot goes up.

[SpursBills]

Ther's a reason, he's the point of attack defender.
His rebounding is underwhelming, but in most situations help defenders are the problem because they just ball watch and don't box out their matchups attacking the glass after a shot goes up.

No argument there regarding his role, but he lags behind other smaller POA defenders like Suggs, holiday, and Derrick white in rebound rate. I’m not going to hold him to the standard of say Amen Thompson, who’s bigger and more athletic and predictably crushes him in those metrics. I agree a lot of it is on his help defenders, but he should probably be doing more as well.

[Raven]

this doesn't surprise me at all, we keep playing large parts of the game without either a pf or a c on the floor.. Just because you have wemby, it doesn't mean you can get lazy and put shooters in.

[RC_Drunkford]

the funny thing is we were a top 10 rebounding team early in the season and now we got the same problem that we had last year. One should think the Spurs coaching staff teaches players how to box out, but I guess they don't.

[LeBowen]

No argument there regarding his role, but he lags behind other smaller POA defenders like Suggs, holiday, and Derrick white in rebound rate. I’m not going to hold him to the standard of say Amen Thompson, who’s bigger and more athletic and predictably crushes him in those metrics. I agree a lot of it is on his help defenders, but he should probably be doing more as well.

Doesn't really lag behind if we take their early seasons into account.
Anyhow, out of all the major issues we have, I don't think this is the one we should be concerned for, he's got way more important things in his game that need fixing.

[Spurminator]

I wish we had Rasho still. For as much heat as he took for not rebounding as much as he should, he definitely boxed out effectively and helped teammates get the rebound.

He's 48 now so I don't think he'd hold up too well.

[KobesAchilles]

somebody has to explain to me why our players are not boxing out? Is our coaching staff not teaching them basic basketball? We are dead last in the NBA and this has been a huge problem for a while now. Sniffers will probably say this is another genius stealth tank strategy :lol

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/box-outs?dir=D&sort=BOX_OUTS
so what you’re saying is our players have low basketball ball iq? That can’t be the case. I was told by the OP how great our player’s basketball iq was. In fact, I was told that it was laughable for me to even mention it or to even suggest our players don’t know how to play winning basketball…

[z0sa]

There is no coaching staff. I'm serious when I say, these guys would struggle to coach high schoolers.

[LeBowen]

so what you’re saying is our players have low basketball ball iq? That can’t be the case. I was told by the OP how great our player’s basketball iq was. In fact, I was told that it was laughable for me to even mention it or to even suggest our players don’t know how to play winning basketball…

It's not just that we're dead last in boxouts, but we're so far behind in last place. :lol
Spurs 4.0
Blazers 4.6
Pelicans 5.3
Wizards 5.8 and then it's just increments of .1 with most teams in 6 to 8 range.

Defensive box outs
Spurs 3.2
Blazers 3.5
Pelicans 4.2

25% less defensive boxouts than the third worst team.
We're the Process Sixers of boxing out. :lol

[baseline bum]

Wemby is horrible at boxing out and instead uses his length to reach over bigs who are in better position. That's the reason Anthony Davis always kills the Spurs on the offensive glass every time they match up and he has the length to still grab boards over Vic when AD is in better position.

[objective]

Sochan last night in 26 minutes including back-up center minutes had 0 rebounds

"But but but he's a legit power forward! He's the next Rodman!"

Give me a break and trade this guy already. 63 year old Dennis Rodman would destroy him on the boards.

[ambchang]

Not surprised by this at all as the spurs are so poorly coached and developed.

That said, I’m not sure how to read this table. How can an entire team only have 4 to 8 box outs a game? There are multiple players boxing out in any given possession. I would imagine there will be something like hundreds a game.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan last night in 26 minutes including back-up center minutes had 0 rebounds

"But but but he's a legit power forward! He's the next Rodman!"

Give me a break and trade this guy already. 63 year old Dennis Rodman would destroy him on the boards.

Are you seriously thinking teams are dumb enough to want our players?

[LeBowen]

Are you seriously thinking teams are dumb enough to want our players?

Kings traded a reliable wing who's a good shooter on a team-friendly for 35 year old Demar and gave up an unprotected FRP to do so.
Also gave him a 3 year deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

so what you’re saying is our players have low basketball ball iq? That can’t be the case. I was told by the OP how great our player’s basketball iq was. In fact, I was told that it was laughable for me to even mention it or to even suggest our players don’t know how to play winning basketball…

I never said that, don't twist my words. Everybody knows our team is dumb as fuck. We just disagreed on Vassell, who's actually one of our better rebounders.

I'm also not saying this is our players fault. This is mostly on the coaches. If you can't get your players to do basic things like boxing out, you shouldn't be a coach period.

[polandprzem]

Clips 57rebs - Zubac 22/ 9 ofensive
Spurs 30 rebs !

[polandprzem]

Spurs are just not a tough team

[Pauleta14]

Sochan last night in 26 minutes including back-up center minutes had 0 rebounds

"But but but he's a legit power forward! He's the next Rodman!"

Give me a break and trade this guy already. 63 year old Dennis Rodman would destroy him on the boards.

He played the last 7mins of the game and didn't bring/do anything on the stats sheet...

Doesn't do shit on D and handicap on O :lol

[dbestpro]

He played the last 7mins of the game and didn't bring/do anything on the stats sheet...

Doesn't do shit on D and handicap on O :lol

Trade him to the Wizards for Jonas Valančiūnas.

[objective]

Clips 57rebs - Zubac 22/ 9 ofensive
Spurs 30 rebs !

Clippers had 17 offensive rebounds
Spurs 23 defensive rebounds

Weak weak weak

[Pauleta14]

Trade him to the Wizards for Jonas Valančiūnas.

I don't know enough about WAS's FO incompetence tbh but that is the key criteria to get rid of him.

If I'm the Wiz I don't have any interest in Sochan unless it's just salary dumping with the idea of not extending him this summer.

I have genuinely never seen such a limited player having so much playing time in NBA in 30 years I've watched... It's mind-boggling :lol

[rjv]

sochan ultimately has to be relegated to the bench but we have to get a legit big on this roster. that player does not currently wear a Spurs uniform.

[scott]

What's fascinating to me is how this stat exists but we are still 3rd in the league in ADJ REB CHANCE%, and 6th in the league in REB CHANCE%.

What this tells me is that when we do get in position for a rebound, we are one of the best at getting it - but we get boxed out of a lot of rebound chances (since if you are boxed out, it doesn't count as a rebound chance. For those unaquainted, a Rebound Chance is any time a player is the closest player to the ball at the time it crosses below the rim after a shot. Adjusted rebound chances add in Deferred Rebound Chances, where you have a REB CHANCE but let your teammate get the ball).

[Russ]

Spurs are last in the NBA in box seat occupants.

[Obstructed_View]

That stat, if true, surprises me not at all.

[itzsoweezee]

They also don’t take charges much either. I wouldn’t be surprised if the spurs are bottom 10 in all of the “hustle” stats

[KobesAchilles]

I never said that, don't twist my words. Everybody knows our team is dumb as fuck. We just disagreed on Vassell, who's actually one of our better rebounders.

I'm also not saying this is our players fault. This is mostly on the coaches. If you can't get your players to do basic things like boxing out, you shouldn't be a coach period.
oh don’t back track on me now. You 100% did say that. I don’t need to twist anything. I said that DV doesn’t know how to play winning basketball and has low bb iq. You went post after post saying how DV does know how to play basketball. How his iq was high. How dumb I am for even suggesting that somebody doesn’t know how to play winning basketball when their whole job is basketball. And then you come in 2 months later saying the same shit like it’s some big revelation to you.
Our young guys don’t even know how to set good picks. They don’t know how to move effectively without the basketball. They all just stand around the 3 point line like idiots without the ball. They watch the ball on defense and are constantly out of position and help when they don’t need to help and don’t help when they should help. The worst part about this team isn’t that we are lacking talent, it’s just how stupid this team is. Like they mess up on basic shit.

And now you want to bring up coaching? This shit was easy to see years ago and I posted 6 years ago that we are a bottom run organization. And everyone said how dramatic and macabre I was being. I’ve been saying we are the new Kings and tried to explain how we could go a decade without making the playoffs. Well it’s 6 years now. And I can easily see it going another 2 years without playoffs.

Everyone thinks we are one trade or one draft away from contending for the next decade. But We have bad ownership. Bad head coaching. We don’t have any good assistant coaches. We have a bad drafting GM. Our player development is shit too. When the top of the organization is bad, the entire team tends to be bad as well. The franchise as a whole needs a change. But it won’t happen bc again we are a bottom 5 run organization.

[Obstructed_View]

oh don’t back track on me now. You 100% did say that. I don’t need to twist anything. I said that DV doesn’t know how to play winning basketball and has low bb iq. You went post after post saying how DV does know how to play basketball. How his iq was high. How dumb I am for even suggesting that somebody doesn’t know how to play winning basketball when their whole job is basketball. And then you come in 2 months later saying the same shit like it’s some big revelation to you.
Our young guys don’t even know how to set good picks. They don’t know how to move effectively without the basketball. They all just stand around the 3 point line like idiots without the ball. They watch the ball on defense and are constantly out of position and help when they don’t need to help and don’t help when they should help. The worst part about this team isn’t that we are lacking talent, it’s just how stupid this team is. Like they mess up on basic shit.

And now you want to bring up coaching? This shit was easy to see years ago and I posted 6 years ago that we are a bottom run organization. And everyone said how dramatic and macabre I was being. I’ve been saying we are the new Kings and tried to explain how we could go a decade without making the playoffs. Well it’s 6 years now. And I can easily see it going another 2 years without playoffs.

Everyone thinks we are one trade or one draft away from contending for the next decade. But We have bad ownership. Bad head coaching. We don’t have any good assistant coaches. We have a bad drafting GM. Our player development is shit too. When the top of the organization is bad, the entire team tends to be bad as well. The franchise as a whole needs a change. But it won’t happen bc again we are a bottom 5 run organization.

Shocking how good the Spurs were when they had nine veterans in the rotation who could pass, screen, move without the ball and shoot.

"Greatest coach of all time"

[scott]

And now you want to bring up coaching? This shit was easy to see years ago and I posted 6 years ago that we are a bottom run organization. And everyone said how dramatic and macabre I was being. I’ve been saying we are the new Kings and tried to explain how we could go a decade without making the playoffs. Well it’s 6 years now. And I can easily see it going another 2 years without playoffs.

Everyone thinks we are one trade or one draft away from contending for the next decade. But We have bad ownership. Bad head coaching. We don’t have any good assistant coaches. We have a bad drafting GM. Our player development is shit too. When the top of the organization is bad, the entire team tends to be bad as well. The franchise as a whole needs a change. But it won’t happen bc again we are a bottom 5 run organization.

tough but fair, tbh

[TD 21]

Amazingly and despite mostly drafting defense first and having the best defensive anchor in the league, they're 18th and haven't ranked above average in 7 years.

The drafting/developing here has been a colossal failure. Excluding Wembanyama (obviously a no brainer, so he doesn't count), not one young or youngish player has shown marked improvement. Some have actually regressed.

[Limguogolo]

Aren't box-outs the remnants of basketball from before the Warriors era and the three-point shot? The leading teams in this ranking are not necessarily the best defenses and the best teams.

This statistic is mainly correlated to whether you have big men or not, no?

But perhaps a new era has opened and after the Warriors era, there was a reaction with bigs capable of passing and shooting three-pointers.

If everyone shoots three-pointers, rebounds take longer and boxing out can be totally counterproductive. For long rebounds, you need length, dynamism and presence. Boxing out especially helps you win 50/50 baskets close to the basket.

You have to be wary of these kinds of stats.

[RC_Drunkford]

oh don’t back track on me now. You 100% did say that. I don’t need to twist anything. I said that DV doesn’t know how to play winning basketball and has low bb iq. You went post after post saying how DV does know how to play basketball. How his iq was high. How dumb I am for even suggesting that somebody doesn’t know how to play winning basketball when their whole job is basketball. And then you come in 2 months later saying the same shit like it’s some big revelation to you.
Our young guys don’t even know how to set good picks. They don’t know how to move effectively without the basketball. They all just stand around the 3 point line like idiots without the ball. They watch the ball on defense and are constantly out of position and help when they don’t need to help and don’t help when they should help. The worst part about this team isn’t that we are lacking talent, it’s just how stupid this team is. Like they mess up on basic shit.

And now you want to bring up coaching? This shit was easy to see years ago and I posted 6 years ago that we are a bottom run organization. And everyone said how dramatic and macabre I was being. I’ve been saying we are the new Kings and tried to explain how we could go a decade without making the playoffs. Well it’s 6 years now. And I can easily see it going another 2 years without playoffs.

Everyone thinks we are one trade or one draft away from contending for the next decade. But We have bad ownership. Bad head coaching. We don’t have any good assistant coaches. We have a bad drafting GM. Our player development is shit too. When the top of the organization is bad, the entire team tends to be bad as well. The franchise as a whole needs a change. But it won’t happen bc again we are a bottom 5 run organization.

well then you are a year later to the party than me, cause I said that this franchise has been trash since 2017 and made a longass thread about it that I have to bump multiple times per year :lol

I been one of PATFO's biggest critics here and want everybody fired. From FO to assistant coaches. This organization needs a huge overhaul. You seem to mistake me for a sniffer, just cause I give Devin a longer leash cause he came off surgery. I was here during the Bryn Forbes era when sniffers were saying Trey Lyles is a good PF and I made a list of all the starting PFs in the NBA and pointed out that he's by far the worst PF in the league. We are the only franchise in the NBA that couldn't win 5 games in a row since the 2020s, so we're effectively worse than the Kings, Pistons, etc. I don't disagree with you on that at all.

[Obstructed_View]

Aren't box-outs the remnants of basketball from before the Warriors era and the three-point shot? The leading teams in this ranking are not necessarily the best defenses and the best teams.

This statistic is mainly correlated to whether you have big men or not, no?

But perhaps a new era has opened and after the Warriors era, there was a reaction with bigs capable of passing and shooting three-pointers.

If everyone shoots three-pointers, rebounds take longer and boxing out can be totally counterproductive. For long rebounds, you need length, dynamism and presence. Boxing out especially helps you win 50/50 baskets close to the basket.

You have to be wary of these kinds of stats.

No. When you watch an opposing player take a tough contested layup and your man slices in for a putback layup it's bad enough. When that guy misses the putback and one of his teammates dunks it, that's 2025 Spurs basketball. No three pointers were threatened.

[Pauleta14]

Aren't box-outs the remnants of basketball from before the Warriors era and the three-point shot? The leading teams in this ranking are not necessarily the best defenses and the best teams.

This statistic is mainly correlated to whether you have big men or not, no?

But perhaps a new era has opened and after the Warriors era, there was a reaction with bigs capable of passing and shooting three-pointers.

If everyone shoots three-pointers, rebounds take longer and boxing out can be totally counterproductive. For long rebounds, you need length, dynamism and presence. Boxing out especially helps you win 50/50 baskets close to the basket.

You have to be wary of these kinds of stats.

You're right about the 3pt shooting effect but it's not the case for our Spurs at all.

The eye test only is enough to see how badly we rebound, there's no real collective effort/preparation as many teams have.

Yesterday I saw multiple time Nephew not giving a care of the rebound but just coning in the paint to put Wemby off balance so Zubac could grab it more easily.

Nobody does that in our team

[scott]

well then you are a year later to the party than me, cause I said that this franchise has been trash since 2017 and made a longass thread about it that I have to bump multiple times per year :lol

I been one of PATFO's biggest critics here and want everybody fired. From FO to assistant coaches. This organization needs a huge overhaul. You seem to mistake me for a sniffer, just cause I give Devin a longer leash cause he came off surgery. I was here during the Bryn Forbes era when sniffers were saying Trey Lyles is a good PF and I made a list of all the starting PFs in the NBA and pointed out that he's by far the worst PF in the league. We are the only franchise in the NBA that couldn't win 5 games in a row since the 2020s, so we're effectively worse than the Kings, Pistons, etc. I don't disagree with you on that at all.

I'll vouch for you. You definitely ain't a sniffer, you're just a Devin Apologist. But I feel like you are coming around :)

PS, I like both you and KobesAchilles :)

[KobesAchilles]

well then you are a year later to the party than me, cause I said that this franchise has been trash since 2017 and made a longass thread about it that I have to bump multiple times per year :lol

I been one of PATFO's biggest critics here and want everybody fired. From FO to assistant coaches. This organization needs a huge overhaul. You seem to mistake me for a sniffer, just cause I give Devin a longer leash cause he came off surgery. I was here during the Bryn Forbes era when sniffers were saying Trey Lyles is a good PF and I made a list of all the starting PFs in the NBA and pointed out that he's by far the worst PF in the league. We are the only franchise in the NBA that couldn't win 5 games in a row since the 2020s, so we're effectively worse than the Kings, Pistons, etc. I don't disagree with you on that at all.
Bryn was tough to watch tbh. Made me question my entire fandom. The problem is that there’s no real quick fix. I would like there to be one. But this team is just full of players who don’t fit together at all. We are a solid piece away from being a solid piece away. Like as bad as the Robinson era was (management wise) we had Elliot paired with him. And we had Cummings to let Robinson not have to take the whole weight of the franchise on his shoulders. People forget that part. And Larry Brown was a hell of a coach.

But now there’s so many problems. I don’t even know where to start. Ownership is bad. We can’t fix that. It is what it is. Next then would be the GM and the coach. Our GM has shown he can’t put a winning team together. And the players he chooses don’t fit each other. The Spurs are the island of mismatch toys.

But then you have to wonder is it the GM or is it the coaching or a combination? Bc if the GM wanted Vassell for instance to be a 3&D player and Pop wants him to create for himself and shoot up 20 shots a game and mold his game away from his initial drafting idea. That is more on coaching. But maybe Wright didn’t want to trade for a 20 point scorer and instead wanted to develop one and thought Vassell could be that guy and now both the GM and the coach are at fault. It’s too convoluted for me to know one way or the other. And the same can be said of Sochan.

And the Spurs were picked on for years from other organizations where they just kept stealing our coaching talent. After a while, it isn’t a surprise that we have shitty assistants. But again that is a management thing. If we paid better salaries we would get better assistants. Instead we are cheap and that’s why our assistant coaches are lower level guys. No reason why Forcier or Chip should’ve been poached other than bad/cheap ownership.

I think what needs to be fixed before anything is the GM/coaching. We need 2 new ones that actually work well together and know wtf they are doing as a team instead of a yes man and an old man. The GM and coaching also need to be analytical based and focus on team building instead of only BPA. And they need to have an actual structured plan for each player they draft instead of this let’s wing it and fly by the seed of our pants approach we have today. Also how about we poach some guys from other organizations and bring in new blood and new ideas. It’s stale here in SA and we need new people from winning organizations.

[100%duncan]

KobeAchilles and RC Drunkford making a lot of good depressing points here :lol

[Slippy]

Considering spurs main bigs are out of the rotation currently You'd think coach would put boxing out as their main focus on defense.

[tbdog]

Barnes has always been a bad rebounder. Vassell isn't great either, nor Julian. On the bench, Keldon is a plus for his position, Castle poor as well I suppose. Collins has always been below par here. Sochan has been injured. Cp is to undersized. Jones as well.

It's more about personale at this stage.

[Raven]

They also don’t take charges much either. I wouldn’t be surprised if the spurs are bottom 10 in all of the “hustle” stats
very true

[RC_Drunkford]

Bryn was tough to watch tbh. Made me question my entire fandom. The problem is that there’s no real quick fix. I would like there to be one. But this team is just full of players who don’t fit together at all. We are a solid piece away from being a solid piece away. Like as bad as the Robinson era was (management wise) we had Elliot paired with him. And we had Cummings to let Robinson not have to take the whole weight of the franchise on his shoulders. People forget that part. And Larry Brown was a hell of a coach.

But now there’s so many problems. I don’t even know where to start. Ownership is bad. We can’t fix that. It is what it is. Next then would be the GM and the coach. Our GM has shown he can’t put a winning team together. And the players he chooses don’t fit each other. The Spurs are the island of mismatch toys.

But then you have to wonder is it the GM or is it the coaching or a combination? Bc if the GM wanted Vassell for instance to be a 3&D player and Pop wants him to create for himself and shoot up 20 shots a game and mold his game away from his initial drafting idea. That is more on coaching. But maybe Wright didn’t want to trade for a 20 point scorer and instead wanted to develop one and thought Vassell could be that guy and now both the GM and the coach are at fault. It’s too convoluted for me to know one way or the other. And the same can be said of Sochan.

And the Spurs were picked on for years from other organizations where they just kept stealing our coaching talent. After a while, it isn’t a surprise that we have shitty assistants. But again that is a management thing. If we paid better salaries we would get better assistants. Instead we are cheap and that’s why our assistant coaches are lower level guys. No reason why Forcier or Chip should’ve been poached other than bad/cheap ownership.

I think what needs to be fixed before anything is the GM/coaching. We need 2 new ones that actually work well together and know wtf they are doing as a team instead of a yes man and an old man. The GM and coaching also need to be analytical based and focus on team building instead of only BPA. And they need to have an actual structured plan for each player they draft instead of this let’s wing it and fly by the seed of our pants approach we have today. Also how about we poach some guys from other organizations and bring in new blood and new ideas. It’s stale here in SA and we need new people from winning organizations.

I said the same thing. Add Ime to that list. Once he left, our defense left with him. Same can be said for Chip and the shooting. Spurs need to hire established people instead of trying to develop the janitor into the video guy, then develop the video guy into an assistant coach and so on. They need some new blood in the FO and the coaching staff.

One would think they take a close look at the roster and say: Alright Castle can't shoot, Sochan can't shoot. The rest of our guys should be able to shoot so we can run a modern NBA offense that Wemby can develop in. But no, let's add Tre Jones, Blake Wesley and Zach Collins to the mix and play a bunch of non-shooters, so our spacing is fucked up. :pop: "Timmy didn't care about spacing when he dropped 25/12 every night in 2003."

The job security is another thing. Name one GM who can draft a player mocked in the 2nd round at 11, make him the face of our jersey sponsor, then waives him after he pulled his dick out everytime he saw a woman and keeps paying him for another 2 seasons, without having to justify any of this. He just keeps his job, cause he's the right guy. Can't make this shit up tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

Somebody tell Mitch, he doesn‘t seem to understand that you have to box out to secure rebounds. I guess Pop only taught him about penguins

[BackHome]

My biggest fear is that Pop comes back as the head coach as that should not happen and the owners need to step in to make sure that doesn’t happen. It is clear that Mitch is not head coach material and if next season Pop or Mitch is coaching well I can only assume we are tanking again.

[MannyIsGod]

I think many people think this is an effort thing and I think that's completely wrong. You can only box out when you're in position to box out. If you're having to rotate then that means you leave your player to contest another player and unless someone can easily rotate over to your man to box out then there's no chance to box out. The Spurs are CONSTANTLY rotating and it often times leads to uncontested offensive rebounds where there is no box out. This is a reality of the defensive system the Spurs are running, not a stat that shows the Spurs are playing with no effort or are too stupid to understand that boxing out gets you rebounds.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Amazingly and despite mostly drafting defense first and having the best defensive anchor in the league, they're 18th and haven't ranked above average in 7 years.

The drafting/developing here has been a colossal failure. Excluding Wembanyama (obviously a no brainer, so he doesn't count), not one young or youngish player has shown marked improvement. Some have actually regressed.

Sochan maybe?

[MannyIsGod]

The idea that the Spurs drafting has been a "colassal" failure is also incredibly stupid. The Spurs have had 2 high lottery picks and one mid lottery pick recently that all seem either excellent or good. Primo was obviously shit, but was also not a high pick. Vassel is the same. Keldon is still a GREAT pick considering he was late first.

Just exactly what do you guys expect from these picks other than that? I think you might be able to make an argument that the Spurs are below average in that time (probably not though considering Wemby and Castle) but a "colossal failure" is just fucking ridiculous.

Y'all have me on Spurstalk after a bad loss sounding like a sniffer because some of you have the emotional stability of a 13 year old who just broke of with the love of their life that they've known for all of 3 days.

[xellos88330]

I miss Malik Rose. Hell, I miss DeJuan Blair. Rebounding is absolute shit for the Spurs. We need a big with some dog in him that actually acts on it. Don't get me wrong, I am lovin Wemby, but it would be nice to have a consistent person to box out and set brick wall screens. It may be enough despite the lack of 3pt defense.

[TD 21]

Sochan maybe?

Not really; his role has just been more streamlined.

In typical Spurs fashion, instead of improving from 3, he's virtually given up on it.

[Mal]

Not really; his role has just been more streamlined.

In typical Spurs fashion, instead of improving from 3, he's virtually given up on it.

Whether you like it or not, Sochan is improving every year