For real this time, Keldon Johnson needs to go ASAP

[DAF86]

Sochan brings defense, hustle and great finishing. Vassell has his moments on defense and is our best 3pt shooter. Keldon does nothing but eat up minutes that need to go to Castle and Champagnie.

[DAF86]

Transform Keldon into Cam Johnson or a backup C, and while you're at it, trade Mitch too. A Johnson fest trade party.

[Extra Stout]

It’s bad for the team and its culture that a player as ass as Keldon Johnson is a vocal leader. His atrocious defense and out-of-control play is infectious.

[objective]

Keldon-Barnes-Branham-Wesley and worse of 2025 pick for Durant

Get it done B.Wrong. Give them Sochan too but that leaves the frontcourt too thin

[LeBowen]

We have to thank the Bulls for helping us get Fox.
No better way to repay the debt than to give them a perfect tank commander.
Keldon for Vucevic straight up, get it done.

[DAF86]

We have to thank the Bulls for helping us get Fox.
No better way to repay the debt than to give them a perfect tank commander.
Keldon for Vucevic straight up, get it done.

That really wouldn't help the bench defense, tbh.

[scott]

Get Ready to Speak Utah, Buddy

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Vassell and sochan can kick fucking rocks too. No more low iq guys

[LeBowen]

That really wouldn't help the bench defense, tbh.

Wouldn't help rim protection, but rebounding is as much of an issue, Vucevic is a great rebounder.
Our bench doesn't have to be elite defensively, not being a net negative is enough. Vucevic would torch almost every single bench big with ease.
And he's shooting 40% from 3pt on 4.6 attempts.

Wemby obviously has conditioning issues, barely managed to play 31 minute tonight.

[NASpurs]

Get Ready to Speak Utah, Buddy

Get ready to learn about Joseph Smith buddy.

[NASpurs]

Vassell and sochan can kick fucking rocks too. No more low iq guys

There was a sequence in the third that Vassell called people off and dribbled the air out of the ball while clanking a shot. The dude is obviously not a winner.

[benefactor]

Is that Blackjack I see viewing the thread?

[spursistan]

Getting the rookie treatment sadly. Mitch Johnson like every unestablished coach without authority takes it out on the rookies. Taking Castle off Trae was a horrendous decision that nearly costs us the game.

[Blizzardwizard]

Uh excuse me buddy I think you're forgetting the value Keldon's post-game bear hugs have on team morale?

[scott]

Vassell and Sochan have earned the benefit of the doubt to see how they look with Fox the rest of the season, IMO, but Keldon is a lost cause. He should be traded in the next 12 hours, or be demoted to deep bench (which unfortunately would further erode whatever trade value remains)

[DAF86]

Wouldn't help rim protection, but rebounding is as much of an issue, Vucevic is a great rebounder.
Our bench doesn't have to be elite defensively, not being a net negative is enough. Vucevic would torch almost every single bench big with ease.
And he's shooting 40% from 3pt on 4.6 attempts.

Wemby obviously has conditioning issues, barely managed to play 31 minute tonight.

I'm actually a fan of Sochan as the backup C, mainly because it allows us to give him the minutes he deserves without messing too much with our spacing.

Also, there's more and more evidence that no center lineups can be elite on the defensive end. That end of the 1st, start of the 2nd quarter defense looked awesome tonight. Everybody switching and deflecting passes left and right. OKC are elite on defense using that formula, the Cletics too. Prime Warriors is another example.

I think Sochan as the backup C can work in the long run.

[hater]

Sochann and Keldon both suck

How anyone can say Sochan is any good is beyond me

Trade both fucks as soon as possible

[100%duncan]

Someone tell KJ the deadline hasn't passed yet tbh so he goes back into emo mode and drops 20 again.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

There was a sequence in the third that Vassell called people off and dribbled the air out of the ball while clanking a shot. The dude is obviously not a winner.
He’s not even Kobe from temu, he’s bargain barn Kobe.

[hater]

Vassell is also very shaky player. And dont even mention Champagne whos a 3rd string at best

With any luck we miss the playoffs so the team can trade in the summer and save us some grief

[james evans]

It’s bad for the team and its culture that a player as ass as Keldon Johnson is a vocal leader. His atrocious defense and out-of-control play is infectious.
He literally shoots almost everything he gets his hands on. If he's driving to the basket, no matter how many people are guarding him, he's shooting it.

[Blackjack]

I’m alive. :smokin

[baseline bum]

Get Ready to Speak Utah, Buddy


Get ready to learn about Joseph Smith buddy.

Wouldn't be so bad with all them hot Mormon bitches who give up the anal to stay virgins

[baseline bum]

There was a sequence in the third that Vassell called people off and dribbled the air out of the ball while clanking a shot. The dude is obviously not a winner.

He really needs to learn that his game is catch and shoot. Otherwise pass the ball to Victor or De'Aaron.

[Atl Spur]

Vassell will be ok but Keldon needs to go...

[z0sa]

Vassell had a decent game, dunno where the hate is coming from there.

KJ sucked ass though. Losing the ball without guys in arms' length, giving up layups and 3's, the usual. He's only good when he's scoring in bunches, which is a rarity nowadays

[rankingtear]

He barely survived the trade, he was on the original package in that 4 team trade that was already done according to Fox. It has been twice that someone injures an achilles when we are about to complete a deal.

[DAF86]

He barely survived the trade, he was on the original package in that 4 team trade that was already done according to Fox. It has been twice that someone injures an achilles when we are about to complete a deal.

What was this suppossed trade? What other team and players were in play?

[SpursGenius]

Getting the rookie treatment sadly. Mitch Johnson like every unestablished coach without authority takes it out on the rookies. Taking Castle off Trae was a horrendous decision that nearly costs us the game.
noticed this. He is bad. really want CP3 to be player coach. Eventual coach too.

[Mugen]

The Keldon trade is gonna hit like
crack when it finally happens tbh

[benefactor]

I’m alive. :smokin
Good to see you bro. Hope life has been treating you well

[RC_Drunkford]

What was this suppossed trade? What other team and players were in play?

it was a 4-team deal with NOLA and Keldon going out. Then DJ got injured and NOLA didn't want to ship out the pieces that were in the original trade. That made Brian Wright pivot to the Bulls, which in hindsight is even better. Don Harris talked about it.

[mo7888]

it was a 4-team deal with NOLA and Keldon going out. Then DJ got injured and NOLA didn't want to ship out the pieces that were in the original trade. That made Brian Wright pivot to the Bulls, which in hindsight is even better. Don Harris talked about it.

Well, well... that gives me hope that we may have another trade up our sleeve.

[John B]

Keldon just had a big game the other night. But he’s inconsistent and that’s the definition of a role player, otherwise he’ll be a starter. I think Keldon is okay for what he brings. Some nights he will be big. I’m okay with Keldon where he’s at. But if he’s part of the chips to get a defensive stretch big, then ship his ass. :lol

[rankingtear]

What was this suppossed trade? What other team and players were in play?

ATL is the likely partner with Capela + Bogi to NO and SAC. Probable involves some picks back with SAC and ATL. Probably turned out better for us cause the Doncic deal reset the market.

[Bill_Brasky]

Keldon bakes the best cookies though, that's important for team morale. :pop:

[Arguendo]

Vassell and Sochan have earned the benefit of the doubt to see how they look with Fox the rest of the season, IMO, but Keldon is a lost cause. He should be traded in the next 12 hours, or be demoted to deep bench (which unfortunately would further erode whatever trade value remains)
Exactly this plus both may really improve their trade values the rest of the season on this new Spurs squad.
I love Keldon when he's not on the court, but that 15min he got last night is where he needs to be (or less) the rest of the season, hopefully they can move him in the next 4.5hrs.

[Blackjack]

Good to see you bro. Hope life has been treating you well

Yessir. Doing my best to keep up with the Spurs over the last year or so. Can’t tell you how many apps and services I pay for, but still having to stream games. This league done fucked up with all the apps and networks you have to get to watch your team when you ain’t local. It’s a beating I ain’t paying any more for.

Hope you and the fam are well, brotherman.

[Manu-of-steel]

Keldon must go, or be glued to the bench. He is just a negative. Low IQ, non shooter. Shoots well once every 20 games. Not a good defender

[slick'81]

Dude is trash but his value is tanked

[SpursBills]

Between him and Vassell, that' $45 million a year in salary. What would this team look like if they just had $45 million in salary in decent wings? Say, instead of Keldon and Vassell, have:

Royce O'Neale, Dorian Finney-Smith, Nickeil Alexander-Walker just to pick 3 decent wings that are probably worth around $15 million each per year. I'm not even picking bargain wings or anything.

Fox, Castle, DFS, Barnes, Wemby
Paul, NAW, Royce O'Neale, Sochan, Bassey

Substitute Bassey for a halfway decent backup center, and that's a legit playoff team, right?

[onechance87]

How do you have this dude come off the bench over castle?Its not cute and is terrible coaching and bad development.
Keldon not playing much in the second half pretty much got us back in the game.But it was to late.

[z0sa]

That whole 2 points was really 6th man material

[Spurs Brazil]

16 minuts - 2pts, 0rebs, 0asts, 0stls, 0blks

How a coach can play this guy 16 minutes I don't know

[LeBowen]

He's garbage, but he does his best every game.
It's not his fault that his best isn't good enough.
Mitch started DNPing Collins, it's time to do the same to Keldon. He offers absolutely nothing out there.

[slick'81]

16 minuts - 2pts, 0rebs, 0asts, 0stls, 0blks

How a coach can play this guy 16 minutes I don't know


$80 million reasons i guess

[scott]

The Spurs would never say it (nor should they) but I've gotta believe that Brian was working his hardest to trade Keldon yesterday and just couldn't make it happen. Brutal.

[jesterbobman]

I imagine the Spurs will be trying to trade him to Orlando for one of Goga/ WCJ / Mo Wagner / Isaac. Keldon isn't good, but they have a lot of depth at C, and Keldon's break glass in case of emergency / energy offense would be helpful for them, given the scoring weakness outside of Franz / Paolo.

At the most extreme, could see a 3 team deal where Atl gets Keldon, 26 swap and 27 back, Orlando gets Trae, we get a C (WCJ?) and a bunch of Orlando picks - Get the main value pick this year, Atlanta gives up 4 for 2 in picks so they can tank unrestrained.

[100%duncan]

Fuck this guy





I dont give a fuck how much “good vibes” he brings off the court. Grow up and get over it.

[mo7888]

I imagine the Spurs will be trying to trade him to Orlando for one of Goga/ WCJ / Mo Wagner / Isaac. Keldon isn't good, but they have a lot of depth at C, and Keldon's break glass in case of emergency / energy offense would be helpful for them, given the scoring weakness outside of Franz / Paolo.

At the most extreme, could see a 3 team deal where Atl gets Keldon, 26 swap and 27 back, Orlando gets Trae, we get a C (WCJ?) and a bunch of Orlando picks - Get the main value pick this year, Atlanta gives up 4 for 2 in picks so they can tank unrestrained.

We aren't giving up that swap for any C they have. Also, if Orlando was sending "a bunch of picks" back they'd better all be 1st's.

Any deal that gives up 26 swap and 27 in an Orlando trade should net us Paolo or Franz

[Knoxxx]

The only way we trade any ATL pick is if we know it’s not lottery and/or getting us a big name player.

[Davidicus]

KJ was our creator / instigator on second unit. With CP3, Fox addition, and Castle explosion, we now have enough creators to span 48 minutes. That puts KJ in a more spacer / shooter role, which is a disaster for him (see last night against the Hornets). 2/0/0/0/0.

[jesterbobman]

I wasn't meaning give up the Atlanta swap in 2026 and the pick in 2027 for just WCJ. That'd be stupid.

With Trae in Atlanta, they're probably a 35 - 40 ish win team, with upside in the draft in 2026 and 2027 - it's a good asset - probably think of them as around 10 - 14 with a chance to get a lot better. If Atlanta sees the writing on the Wall and wants to move on from Trae, they'd be a worse team, and be desperate to find some way of getting their picks back.

A Trae trade (to whatever destination, Orlando makes a bunch of sense, so using that as example) probably means Orlando is giving up Cole Anthony, Black, some other matching salary and a load of picks that project to be late-ish firsts, in - 25, 27, 29, 31...Don't know the exact value on Trae, but probably a few. If we got those 3 of those picks and WCJ for the 27 Hawks pick, the 26 swap and Keldon, we'd be in a good spot and the Hawks would be able to fully commit to the Tank - rather than being a mid level / fringe playoff team with Trae / Jalen Johnson etc.

Essentially, we'd be trading from a position of strength to get 3 picks for 1 and a swap. Same logic in a Houston trade - getting some of the Phoenix / Brooklyn picks with Atlanta getting theirs back, etc.

(I get that this is not a Keldon point and belongs better in the general trade thread).

[Spurs Brazil]

The worst 11 minutes of basketball that I ever seen.

Johnson was a disaster tonight

[Extra Stout]

I have thought Keldon Johnson was a worthless piece of shit who not only is a bad basketball player but also is bad for team culture for years now. But he is useful as a tank commander to keep the team down around 30 wins in the hopes the lottery balls will smile on the Spurs again. Mitch just has to keep his minutes in the range of plausible deniability.

[Cry Havoc]

The worst 11 minutes of basketball that I ever seen.

Johnson was a disaster tonight

What are you talking about? He was only 2-8 (nearly a shot per minute) and made 3 turnovers including a 2v1 fast break he threw away.

My favorite play of the entire game for him was actually on defense, though, where the Wiz got out in transition with one player, and rather than doubling said player as he posted in the paint, Keldon floated to the rim and waited to try to stat pad a rebound, which turned into an easy bucket.

I would sit him for the rest of the fucking season if I were Mitch. So I'm looking forward to Johnson getting a cool 32 minute stint while Castle rots on the bench next game.

-7 in 11 minutes tonight. We lost the lead by almost a point per minute he was on the floor.

Not just bad for him, that was some Bronny James "you might not be good enough for the G-League" shit tonight.

[scott]

Too bad Brian Wright didn't do a press conference and would never answer this question anyway... and too bad not a single Spurs beat writer will ever do the work to find out... but I really want to know how much effort was put into moving Keldon at the deadline. Aside from the fact that he's been complete dogshit outside of those two SadKeldon games, but he just crowds the rotation in trying to force his minutes. We have one SF too many in the rotation (not that either of them are particularly good, but Keldon is the worst of them).

[RC_Drunkford]

We have to keep him cause he wears cowboy hats

[100%duncan]

This guy makes basketball look depressing.

[ismael-robert]

If he gets us below Philly love da guy

[TDomination]

Man, I’ve been a fan of Johnson tbh. I always liked his energy, gave me Malik rose vibes.

but it’s been painfully obvious that he’s been a net negative.

[Dverde]

https://x.com/texas_4l/status/1889847772272271803?s=46
It’s time.

[spurraider21]

Too bad Brian Wright didn't do a press conference and would never answer this question anyway... and too bad not a single Spurs beat writer will ever do the work to find out... but I really want to know how much effort was put into moving Keldon at the deadline. Aside from the fact that he's been complete dogshit outside of those two SadKeldon games, but he just crowds the rotation in trying to force his minutes. We have one SF too many in the rotation (not that either of them are particularly good, but Keldon is the worst of them).
ehh, no GM would ever say "yeah we tried our best to move player X, but we couldnt find a deal so here he is"

[scott]

ehh, no GM would ever say "yeah we tried our best to move player X, but we couldnt find a deal so here he is"

A GM wouldn't say it, but there beat reporters often find out and report on it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A GM wouldn't say it, but there beat reporters often find out and report on it.

This wouldn’t help the team though, would it?

[onechance87]

mamu should be playing over him.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/texas_4l/status/1889847772272271803?s=46
It’s time.

:pop: "that's why we can't trade Keldon. He does so much important stuff off the court. He's our leader and loves cowboy hats."

[scott]

This wouldn’t help the team though, would it?

Does local media reporting on the team to keep them accountable help teams? IDK, it's debatable. Does local media being slurping mouthpieces for the FO instead help the team? Also debatable I guess. Has it helped the Spurs?

[TDomination]

https://x.com/texas_4l/status/1889847772272271803?s=46
It’s time.

perhaps they saw this and thought they'll do their own version of it...idk lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwWpjYsmC6Y

[BatManu20]

Keldon playing like the Trade Deadline hasn't passed yet.

1895468999951225301

[scott]

Keldon deserves some props. Been the only one playing with heart since the ASB.

[Ice009]

I've wanted to give him props, but I don't know if it's because there is now no pressure. If he was playing like this a lot more often, then I wouldn't have wanted him gone.

[scott]

I've wanted to give him props, but I don't know if it's because there is now no pressure. If he was playing like this a lot more often, then I wouldn't have wanted him gone.

This is a really fair and valid point. It’s kind of how like Devin seems to wake up in the second half of games we’re already losing badly in. It’s like KJ and Dev only know how to perform in losing time.

[Ice009]

This is a really fair and valid point. It’s kind of how like Devin seems to wake up in the second half of games we’re already losing badly in. It’s like KJ and Dev only know how to perform in losing time.

He has been playing great and I'd love to give him credit for it, but I just can't.

I hate to say it, but what you said might play into the losing culture of the past 3 or 4 years. KJ and Devin have been conditioned into it. They're not used to playing with any kind of pressure to get wins, so maybe this feels more normal to them and they can perform under these circumstances. I wouldn't be suprised if Devin starts having good games now too, but hopefully with him, it's because of the foot and he's not fully healed.
When the urgency was on to win games (before Victor was ruled out), they were nowhere to be found.

[Bruno]

A 3 and D player can be put basically in any kind of system/lineups and turns into a positive player for the team.

Keldon is the opposite of that. He is a quite good player but if he isn't put in the proper setup, he will hurt the team. I don't know how Spurs roster will be built next year, but if they don't a have a spot for a player with Keldon's skillset, he should be traded this summer.

[R. DeMurre]

Keldon is prime evidence that holding on for too long can be a big issue. At one point he was a 20 ppg starter and Draymond Green was saying he'd be a future All Star. He almost certainly would've brought a worthwhile return at that point, but that shipped has sailed. Now he's viewed as a low impact bench player. I think sometimes the Spurs get lost in generic statements like "you have to take all of the steps" or "there are no shortcuts," which are often just unintended code for "we're very cautious by nature." I mean, trading for an impact player, underrated guy, or a high draft pick IS a shortcut to team building, and maybe another generic statement the Spurs should embrace equally is something like "strike while the iron is hot" or "there's no time like the present." They lost out on a return for Aldridge and waited too long (imo) on DeRozan, so I think it's a legit concern. I'm not as high on Fox as many here, but I'm glad they made that move, even if he's eventually just a stepping stone to an eventual playoff level team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Keldon is prime evidence that holding on for too long can be a big issue. At one point he was a 20 ppg starter and Draymond Green was saying he'd be a future All Star. He almost certainly would've brought a worthwhile return at that point, but that shipped has sailed. Now he's viewed as a low impact bench player. I think sometimes the Spurs get lost in generic statements like "you have to take all of the steps" or "there are no shortcuts," which are often just unintended code for "we're very cautious by nature." I mean, trading for an impact player, underrated guy, or a high draft pick IS a shortcut to team building, and maybe another generic statement the Spurs should embrace equally is something like "strike while the iron is hot" or "there's no time like the present." They lost out on a return for Aldridge and waited too long (imo) on DeRozan, so I think it's a legit concern. I'm not as high on Fox as many here, but I'm glad they made that move, even if he's eventually just a stepping stone to an eventual playoff level team.

you forgot the most famous one: "keep pounding the rock"

Meaning if it doesn't work, just keep trying the dumb shit you been doing.

[BackHome]

I am fine at this point just having Keldon be a starting player for the second unit as he is on a good contract and he seems to still care and compete hard. The player who we really need to look at is Vassell as he is getting starting level money and at this point I would not even want him in the 6th man role. If his play is because of his foot surgery then I would have to seriously think of drafting a SG in the next draft.

As far as need:

1st. Starting SF
2nd. Big Man PF
3rd. Sixth man SG
4th. Backup Center
5th. Backup PG

[exstatic]

Keldon playing like the Trade Deadline hasn't passed yet.

1895468999951225301

Wonder what his before/after USG% is. I’ll bet it skyrocketed.

[scott]

Wonder what his before/after USG% is. I’ll bet it skyrocketed.

21.0 for the season, 21.0 for the last 5 games. It’s not his USG that’s up, it’s his efficiency. 78.6% TS% over the last 5 games compared to 57% for the season.

[Knoxxx]

We should be featuring Keldon as much as possible to up his trade value.

[baseline bum]

A 3 and D player can be put basically in any kind of system/lineups and turns into a positive player for the team.

Keldon is the opposite of that. He is a quite good player but if he isn't put in the proper setup, he will hurt the team. I don't know how Spurs roster will be built next year, but if they don't a have a spot for a player with Keldon's skillset, he should be traded this summer.

I don't see where he'd be successful as a no 3, no D wing in this league that prioritizes both. He's one of the prime parts of the roster that needs to be churned.

[CGD]

I don't see where he'd be successful as a no 3, no D wing in this league that prioritizes both. He's one of the prime parts of the roster that needs to be churned.

In theory he’s a good change of pace guy off the bench in the mold of Bonzi Wells. That dude would come in and beat up on second units with his physicality. A team like Miami or New York could value.

[baseline bum]

In theory he’s a good change of pace guy off the bench in the mold of Bonzi Wells. That dude would come in and beat up on second units with his physicality. A team like Miami or New York could value.

IDK Bonzi had a skillset tailor made for an era everyone played through the post where he was devastating, while Keldon seems to have the exact opposite skillset vs what is valuable in today's NBA.

[scott]

We should be featuring Keldon as much as possible to up his trade value.

Works both ways though… featuring Keldon has the possibility of further lessening his trade value. Though he and Dev seem to have a back for performing once the games no longer matter

[rankingtear]

Keldon is prime evidence that holding on for too long can be a big issue. At one point he was a 20 ppg starter and Draymond Green was saying he'd be a future All Star. He almost certainly would've brought a worthwhile return at that point, but that shipped has sailed. Now he's viewed as a low impact bench player. I think sometimes the Spurs get lost in generic statements like "you have to take all of the steps" or "there are no shortcuts," which are often just unintended code for "we're very cautious by nature." I mean, trading for an impact player, underrated guy, or a high draft pick IS a shortcut to team building, and maybe another generic statement the Spurs should embrace equally is something like "strike while the iron is hot" or "there's no time like the present." They lost out on a return for Aldridge and waited too long (imo) on DeRozan, so I think it's a legit concern. I'm not as high on Fox as many here, but I'm glad they made that move, even if he's eventually just a stepping stone to an eventual playoff level team.

Should they trade Castle for a legit star? Holding out on the DJ trade is what kick started the rebuild and holding out on Jakob reinforced it. Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. Waited too long for Derozan is what the Fox is trade is rooted from that sign and trade with CHI a few years back.

[The Truth #6]

It feels like he is playing PF a lot in small lineups. Seems like that's where his heart is - near the rim, slamming into people, occasionally stretching the floor with an open 3. Just my uninformed eyeball assessment.

[Bruno]

I don't see where he'd be successful as a no 3, no D wing in this league that prioritizes both. He's one of the prime parts of the roster that needs to be churned.

I put Keldon ceiling with a good team is to be a 20mpg bench player. I wouldn't call that "successful" but he could be an useful rotation player.

Offensively, his best setup is to be the 2nd/3rd offensive option and to be surrounded with enough outside shooting. For example, he is fine offensively in a Fox/Vassell/Keldon/Barnes/"Defensive minded C" lineup. When Spurs main players are all on the court (Fox, Castle and Wembanyama), Keldon is an atrocious fit with them.

And I agree with you, it's tough to make a player like Keldon work in today's nba.

[Knoxxx]

Keldon Johnson Makes Spurs History vs Clippers (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/keldon-johnson-makes-spurs-history-vs-clippers/ar-AA1CzhR3?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ASTS&cvid=fc97aa192ad74adaa9f82c721a78082a&ei=29)

The San Antonio Spurs aren't likely to create more chaos in the Western Conference Tuesday night against the LA Clippers, but they did witness another milestone.
Keldon Johnson, still logging minutes from the bench, became the highest-scoring Spur in the second unit in a single season, passing Manu Ginóbili. He's logged 928 points in 74 games played.
The entire list is as follows:
1. Keldon Johnson - 928 (this season)
2. Manu Ginóbili - 927 (2007-08)
3. Dave Corzine - 857 (1980-81)
4. Chuck Person - 845 (1994-95)
5. Marco Belinelli - 820 (2018-18)

[Ice009]

Darn, what do you think the Spurs are going to do with that stat? Try and keep him, or still look to trade him hoping he has higher value?

[spursparker9]

:lol was Manu injured for most of that season ?

[BatManu20]

1909809618714296694

[Ice009]

Darn man, Keldon is such a nice guy, but I'm not sure I want him on the team anymore. If only he had Manu's basketball smarts and decision making on the court, he'd be worth keeping around. His decision making feels like a Westbrook lite.

[stnick2261]

Manu never logged huge minutes on a tanking team and the game is faster pace now and higher scoring overall. I can't imagine the difference in team results if we had prime Manu instead of Keldon this year.

[ambchang]

:lol was Manu injured for most of that season ?

Manu started 23 games that season.

[T Park]

Darn man, Keldon is such a nice guy, but I'm not sure I want him on the team anymore. If only he had Manu's basketball smarts and decision making on the court, he'd be worth keeping around. His decision making feels like a Westbrook lite.

“If only he was more like the greatest 6th man in NBA history”

People’s expectations for any player post big three era are so damn out of whack and unrealistic it’s ridiculous.

[Ice009]

“If only he was more like the greatest 6th man in NBA history”

People’s expectations for any player post big three era are so damn out of whack and unrealistic it’s ridiculous.

Well, maybe I don't expect him to have Manu's BBIQ (I probably shouldn't have used Manu as the example), but the Spurs are looking to be a Championship level team. Can you trust his decision making in Championship level games? I'm just not sure, as he seems very Westbrook like at times (not as bad) with the decisions he makes on the court.
Great game from Keldon last night, though.

[Phenomanul]

Keldon seems to be flourishing in his solidified bench role. The sooner he understands that embracing this role is how he will maximize his value to the Spurs the sooner he can ensure his tenure on the squad. He's a glue guy. He gets along with everyone and seems to care enough. If Wemby, Fox, Castle are the future stars on the Spurs you will still need guys like Keldon to make deep playoff runs. I know it would help his case if he could further refine his 3 point shooting accuracy - but honestly the mechanics are there, mentally he is in a better spot and that's when they seem to drop for him.

[Knoxxx]

Since Wemby went out Keldon has been rock solid off the bench. He punishes the other team and imposes his will with his relentless drives to the basket. If you watch the games, it was him or Castle when we needed to just bully our way to the basket to try and draw a foul or and one. Other teams, I can assure you, have to account for KJ. Other teams would like to acquire KJ.

I made the mistake of wanting Derrick White gone because of too low a 3PT shooting percentage. Lo and behold, he gets on a better team and the looks are more open and he's deadeye from three. Not saying KJ is going to shoot at that level, but he only needs to come up a little and we have one of the more formidable bench scorers in the league.

Though he has no midrange game, otherwise he has a little bit of Charles Barkley (lite) in him. I like KJ and think he has solidified his place on the team and role. Much more so than Vassell did down the stretch consistently. If KJ does get traded, it is only because he was a valuable trade chip on a deal too good for us to pass up.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Since Wemby went out Keldon has been rock solid off the bench. He punishes the other team and imposes his will with his relentless drives to the basket. If you watch the games, it was him or Castle when we needed to just bully our way to the basket to try and draw a foul or and one. Other teams, I can assure you, have to account for KJ. Other teams would like to acquire KJ.

I made the mistake of wanting Derrick White gone because of too low a 3PT shooting percentage. Lo and behold, he gets on a better team and the looks are more open and he's deadeye from three. Not saying KJ is going to shoot at that level, but he only needs to come up a little and we have one of the more formidable bench scorers in the league.

Though he has no midrange game, otherwise he has a little bit of Charles Barkley (lite) in him. I like KJ and think he has solidified his place on the team and role. Much more so than Vassell did down the stretch consistently. If KJ does get traded, it is only because he was a valuable trade chip on a deal too good for us to pass up.

Yes trade Vassell definitely . Trade Keldon only if there is a much better player wants to sign with Spurs, like Naz Reid.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Edit: nevermind, I don't feel that strongly.

[baseline bum]

Since Wemby went out Keldon has been rock solid off the bench. He punishes the other team and imposes his will with his relentless drives to the basket. If you watch the games, it was him or Castle when we needed to just bully our way to the basket to try and draw a foul or and one. Other teams, I can assure you, have to account for KJ. Other teams would like to acquire KJ.


He was dogshit until Wemby went out. If you don't fit with Victor you don't fit on this team.

[dbestpro]

Glad he improved his trade value down the stretch. Sochan, not so much.

[Ice009]

Yeah, Baseline Bum has brought up a good point. Some of these guys were playing terrible with Victor. It's all good and well that they started played well after he went out, but if they can't play well with him, then it's a question of whether or not they fit on this team and/or should be on the team.

[Knoxxx]

Don’t overthink this, the 3 guys that showed out after Fox left were Barnes, Castle, and Keldon. Beyond just the stats, I’m starting to wonder which of my fellow monkeys even watched the Spurs play.

[DAF86]

Don’t overthink this, the 3 guys that showed out after Fox left were Barnes, Castle, and Keldon. Beyond just the stats, I’m starting to wonder which of my fellow monkeys even watched the Spurs play.

Dude, how much do you have to watch Keldon to realize he's empty calories? He's a no 3, no D, role player that puts up empty stats when the games don't matter.

[scott]

Don’t overthink this, the 3 guys that showed out after Fox left were Barnes, Castle, and Keldon. Beyond just the stats, I’m starting to wonder which of my fellow monkeys even watched the Spurs play.

I'm curious what you are trying to suggest here?

To me, Keldon's performance (which really picked up right before the trade deadline) after the season was effectively over does less to give me confidence that he should be an important part of the team going forward and more to just tell me that his true nature is tank commander who excels in a role that we don't need him to play. Similar with Devin... they are best in heavy usage situations, but they aren't actually good enough to warrant that kind of usage when you're trying to win. Both Devin and Keldon look best when put in a primary scorer role... but they are way down on the pecking order of our roster of who we want being primary scoring options. That's different from Barnes, who was able to play that role for us when Wemby and Fox were out, but also looked very good as the 4th option on offense. If Devin and Keldon could similarly show they can thrive as that 4th/5th option, they'd look like more viable long-term pieces.

[Knoxxx]

Keldon passed the audition. He can come in and get his off the bench in a viable 6th man role. If we bring in two 1st round rookies it will depend a lot who those are as to whether they can supplant Barnes as a starter or KJ as our top bench option anytime soon. KJ is the real deal when it comes to attacking off the dribble against other team’s second units in particular. I’m setting aside any potential trades or free agent veteran acquisitions in that analysis. For now, Keldon is one our 5 or 6 best players if you possibly include Paul in that conversation.

[DAF86]

Keldon passed the audition. He can come in and get his off the bench in a viable 6th man role. If we bring in two 1st round rookies it will depend a lot who those are as to whether they can supplant Barnes as a starter or KJ as our top bench option anytime soon. KJ is the real deal when it comes to attacking off the dribble against other team’s second units in particular. I’m setting aside any potential trades or free agent veteran acquisitions in that analysis. For now, Keldon is one our 5 or 6 best players if you possibly include Paul in that conversation.

Dude, no. Just. No. This team can only start to compete for real once they get rid of Keldon. How old are you? Have you watched the Duncan years? How can any Spur fan see those years and not realize Keldon isn't winning basketball?

[timtonymanu]

Player that’s great for tanking. Where was this level of play when the Spurs actually needed him to win games? He legit was one of the worst players during the games that mattered.

Good 3rd unit player that can give instant offense in some spurts but the Spurs are paying him to be way more than that.

[Knoxxx]

Learn to think for yourself, stop parroting.

[Sugus]

It's all about the role you put players on. Yes, you aren't winning playoff games with Keldon starting or maybe even as a main bench piece; but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the team in the right context.

I'll exaggerate for argument's sake, but I see no reason why Keldon can't be the "15th best player" on a championship-level roster. People tend to narrowly limit their analysis to on-court performance, but basketball is a team sport first and foremost - sometimes you need glue guys and bench pieces like Keldon, in a similar vein that Miami had a lot of use for Udonis Haslem besides the point where he wasn't a positive on-court contributor anymore.

Of course, Keldon himself might believe he's suited for more than a 15th-man role, and I don't doubt the Spurs will open the proverbial door for him to find that opportunity elsewhere, like they did with other players like Boban in the past. But as long as he's happy to stay, hustling hard and being a solid bench piece? I'm hard pressed to find reasons why he has to go, especially "ASAP".

Now, Devin, though........ That's another matter entirely.

[spurraider21]

It's all about the role you put players on. Yes, you aren't winning playoff games with Keldon starting or maybe even as a main bench piece; but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the team in the right context.

I'll exaggerate for argument's sake, but I see no reason why Keldon can't be the "15th best player" on a championship-level roster. People tend to narrowly limit their analysis to on-court performance, but basketball is a team sport first and foremost - sometimes you need glue guys and bench pieces like Keldon, in a similar vein that Miami had a lot of use for Udonis Haslem besides the point where he wasn't a positive on-court contributor anymore.

Of course, Keldon himself might believe he's suited for more than a 15th-man role, and I don't doubt the Spurs will open the proverbial door for him to find that opportunity elsewhere, like they did with other players like Boban in the past. But as long as he's happy to stay, hustling hard and being a solid bench piece? I'm hard pressed to find reasons why he has to go, especially "ASAP".

Now, Devin, though........ That's another matter entirely.
if he's not a starter and not a "main bench piece" then he shouldnt be signed for anything more than 6-7 mil per year

[Ice009]

It's all about the role you put players on. Yes, you aren't winning playoff games with Keldon starting or maybe even as a main bench piece; but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the team in the right context.

I'll exaggerate for argument's sake, but I see no reason why Keldon can't be the "15th best player" on a championship-level roster. People tend to narrowly limit their analysis to on-court performance, but basketball is a team sport first and foremost - sometimes you need glue guys and bench pieces like Keldon, in a similar vein that Miami had a lot of use for Udonis Haslem besides the point where he wasn't a positive on-court contributor anymore.

Of course, Keldon himself might believe he's suited for more than a 15th-man role, and I don't doubt the Spurs will open the proverbial door for him to find that opportunity elsewhere, like they did with other players like Boban in the past. But as long as he's happy to stay, hustling hard and being a solid bench piece? I'm hard pressed to find reasons why he has to go, especially "ASAP".

Now, Devin, though........ That's another matter entirely.

Because he's like a Westbrook lite in decision making, and that can cost the Spurs badly in big games. All the games earlier this year while the Spurs were still in the playoff hunt, he was atrocious for the majority of them. Gave Victor no help at all.

[scott]

It's all about the role you put players on. Yes, you aren't winning playoff games with Keldon starting or maybe even as a main bench piece; but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the team in the right context.

I'll exaggerate for argument's sake, but I see no reason why Keldon can't be the "15th best player" on a championship-level roster. People tend to narrowly limit their analysis to on-court performance, but basketball is a team sport first and foremost - sometimes you need glue guys and bench pieces like Keldon, in a similar vein that Miami had a lot of use for Udonis Haslem besides the point where he wasn't a positive on-court contributor anymore.

Of course, Keldon himself might believe he's suited for more than a 15th-man role, and I don't doubt the Spurs will open the proverbial door for him to find that opportunity elsewhere, like they did with other players like Boban in the past. But as long as he's happy to stay, hustling hard and being a solid bench piece? I'm hard pressed to find reasons why he has to go, especially "ASAP".

Now, Devin, though........ That's another matter entirely.

I generally agree with you. Every player has their place... I can even make a decent case for Malaki Branham as the 15th man on your roster.

I actually like Keldon. He's fun, energetic, loves being a Spur, loves the city, is a great teammate from everything we can see... all things people should love.

The questions of course, as they are with any player:

1) Are the happy with and willing to accept the role that is best for them?
2) Are you paying them appropriately for that role?

Who knows with #1... but the cat is out of the bag with #2. If you're paying Keldon $17MM/year to be your 8th/9th man (let alone the 15th), you've harmed the team with poor asset allocation. And that's where maybe Keldon no longer has a place here. At times I almost convinced myself that he could be the 6th man going forward... but I think his deficiencies are too great for a playoff team to have him in that role.

Would love to hear your breakdown on Devin though.

[ambchang]

I think keldon is a decent player, fantastic player giving his draft position even. I love to watch him bully ball. His enthusiasm is contagious but his contract is bad. I’d even live with $10m per, which is an overpay. But c’est la vie.

[SpursBills]

I'm not sure how much this affects things, but the other problem with Keldon and especially Vassell getting the contracts that they got is that their contracts are basically looked at as benchmarks for future draftees/young players.

"If Vassell's making 150 million for showing up every 4th game and turning it on when the games don't matter, maybe I deserve 120 million for showing up every 5th game".

I'm all for players getting paid and it's obviously not my money, but the second apron acts as a hard cap which does, in fact, make resources finite.

I actually applaud Houston for the contracts they handed out to Green and Sengun last year - to an outsider Green's contract looks like an overpay, but it's honestly a better contract than Vassell's and it takes a lot of discipline to hold strong against a former #2 overall pick. Sengun could have probably gotten a max extension from a more undisciplined front office, but got extended for a reasonable deal. Those deals will probably make potential team-friendly deals for Eason and/or Jabari more palatable this offseason.

[twodeep]

So if we can get marks to trade cam Johnson for Keldon and some 2nd round picks would you

[Mal]

So if we can get marks to trade cam Johnson for Keldon and some 2nd round picks would you

If we can trade Keldon + Branham + 2 SRP for Nikola Vucevic, would you do it ?

[Sugus]

if he's not a starter and not a "main bench piece" then he shouldnt be signed for anything more than 6-7 mil per year

Sure, that's something I can get behind - when's his contract running up? I've no idea, he was signed what, 2 years ago already?

And then yes, I'd much rather sign Keldon to a $7m/year contract than have to ship him out "ASAP". Again, his contributions have value in the proper context and role.


Because he's like a Westbrook lite in decision making, and that can cost the Spurs badly in big games. All the games earlier this year while the Spurs were still in the playoff hunt, he was atrocious for the majority of them. Gave Victor no help at all.

Well, there's your issue - what's Keldon doing on the court on a "big game"? The Spurs have had clear talent/roster issues which made playing him there a necessity, but that's not what my point is.

If you're putting your bench energy guys on the court for the closing minutes of a Big Game, that's on the coach, or the GM that built the roster. And this is not Spurs-specific, it's a pretty obvious and league-wide concept. Reminds me of the Albert Einstein quote - "If you judge a fish for its ability to climb a tree..."

[Sugus]

I generally agree with you. Every player has their place... I can even make a decent case for Malaki Branham as the 15th man on your roster.

I actually like Keldon. He's fun, energetic, loves being a Spur, loves the city, is a great teammate from everything we can see... all things people should love.

The questions of course, as they are with any player:

1) Are the happy with and willing to accept the role that is best for them?
2) Are you paying them appropriately for that role?

Who knows with #1... but the cat is out of the bag with #2. If you're paying Keldon $17MM/year to be your 8th/9th man (let alone the 15th), you've harmed the team with poor asset allocation. And that's where maybe Keldon no longer has a place here. At times I almost convinced myself that he could be the 6th man going forward... but I think his deficiencies are too great for a playoff team to have him in that role.

Would love to hear your breakdown on Devin though.

Yeah, and I would add that he's a great guy to have at practices and internal scrimmages. This is again something most people overlook since cameras don't show it; but the same way you have your lazy-ass Iverson's "We talkin' 'bout practice!" who don't give a shit about anything besides their on-court play, you also have your "100% energy all the time" guys like Keldon or Westbrook. And (again in the right context) I'd much, much rather have the latter on my team. It makes everyone adjust to their energy and have to play harder and meaningfully, setting the tone.

Your questions are fair.... Keldon did seem mysteriously down around the trade deadline, very bummed on interviews. Maybe it was just "hot seat nerves" as he's a perfect trade candidate, but I can also see him not staying eternally content as his role diminishes further when the team brings in more promising, talented, and younger players that take away his minutes.

How he takes that is a measure of his professionalism - he's already been paid life-changing money, so it's not a Scottie Pippen situation. Looking at him from the outside, having followed him since he was a rookie on the Austin Toros, I kinda have a hard time imagining him "souring" on the team and his role -- especially if the Spurs start to seriously trend upwards and win games, as they're expected to. "Winning cures all" remains true and applies here; nobody wants to be the 15th man on a tanking squad, of course.

I asked this to Spurraider and ask you too, since you brought it up; how many years does Keldon have left at that salary? I can absolutely see the FO negotiating a low-ball for his next contract. Something of a "we did right by you when we were bad, now it's your turn to sacrifice" kinda thing. Again, we'll see if and how he takes it.... But he's always seemed to value being a Spur, and that has value beyond the dollar amount.

As for Devin? No breakdown to be had - I'm tired of him! :lol I stopped expecting his shots to go in last season, and he frustrates me as a player. As others mention, he's also a very prominent vestige of the tanking seasons, and I'd love to see the Spurs ship him up, open up that role and minutes, and fully "turn the page" there.

[Knoxxx]

The discussion inched towards improvement rather than reactionism. Nobody said Keldon was untouchable in a trade.

Sugar is having some of the better takes, kind of what I was thinking re maybe he does not get as big a salary next time he reups. He's got a few more seasons to determine that. And it's nothing like the (gag) Vassell deal.

Keldon beating the shit out of people is fun to watch. As sugs also stated, it's about COACHING and the ROLE, which for him the simpler the better. When he can simply come in and be a battering ram, that's what he does best. Currently he is our best bench player too, though Champagnie may be inching into contention on a two-way basis. Since everyone always gripes about KJ's defense.

[LeBowen]

I asked this to Spurraider and ask you too, since you brought it up; how many years does Keldon have left at that salary?

Two more seasons after this one, $17.5M a year.


fully "turn the page" there

Exactly.
The first trade I can think of is that I'd offer him and Jeremy for John Collins, assuming Collins agrees to a fair extension, around 80/4.

Devin will be more difficult to get rid of because his contract just started and no competent GM will rate him highly.

Anyhow, I can't see all three of them staying this summer. Even if we keep the current rotation, someone is the odd man out since Jeremy obviously can't be the backup center.
Even if we're stuck with Devin as the starter, that's still Keldon/Jeremy/Champ as bench wings with two incoming FRPs and we'll obviously target a legit 6'9-6'11 PF in either draft or trade market.

[stnick2261]

My problem with Keldon is that it seems like he doesn't read the defense. He decides what he's going to do and just goes for it. There is no decision-making after his first step. I don't think he would be good in a "Read&React" offense where he has to read the defense and make split second decisions. If we get Jenkins as coach, I hope Keldon gets moved (or he gets taught how to play correctly).

[Bill_Brasky]

Dude only plays well when it doesn't matter. Do some of yall have amnesia and forget this happening every single year? Ths guy was on the graphic of "worst shooters in the NBA" ffs.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol posters here still thinking Keldon is useful on the roster because of the Power of Friendship

[John B]

Keldon is 5th among bench-scorers in the league. He's actually embraced that Manu 6th man role and always plays with energy.

It's Devin's inconsistencies that bothers me. I'm thinking it was after surgery. He was my MIP candidate before when they gave to Ja.

[scott]

Keldon is 5th among bench-scorers in the league. He's actually embraced that Manu 6th man role and always plays with energy.

It's Devin's inconsistencies that bothers me. I'm thinking it was after surgery. He was my MIP candidate before when they gave to Ja.

Are you thinking of Dejounte? The year Ja won MIP, DJM finished second in voting. That was Devin's sophomore season - no one seriously would have been considering him for MIP.

[scott]

Yeah, and I would add that he's a great guy to have at practices and internal scrimmages. This is again something most people overlook since cameras don't show it; but the same way you have your lazy-ass Iverson's "We talkin' 'bout practice!" who don't give a shit about anything besides their on-court play, you also have your "100% energy all the time" guys like Keldon or Westbrook. And (again in the right context) I'd much, much rather have the latter on my team. It makes everyone adjust to their energy and have to play harder and meaningfully, setting the tone.

Your questions are fair.... Keldon did seem mysteriously down around the trade deadline, very bummed on interviews. Maybe it was just "hot seat nerves" as he's a perfect trade candidate, but I can also see him not staying eternally content as his role diminishes further when the team brings in more promising, talented, and younger players that take away his minutes.

How he takes that is a measure of his professionalism - he's already been paid life-changing money, so it's not a Scottie Pippen situation. Looking at him from the outside, having followed him since he was a rookie on the Austin Toros, I kinda have a hard time imagining him "souring" on the team and his role -- especially if the Spurs start to seriously trend upwards and win games, as they're expected to. "Winning cures all" remains true and applies here; nobody wants to be the 15th man on a tanking squad, of course.

I asked this to Spurraider and ask you too, since you brought it up; how many years does Keldon have left at that salary? I can absolutely see the FO negotiating a low-ball for his next contract. Something of a "we did right by you when we were bad, now it's your turn to sacrifice" kinda thing. Again, we'll see if and how he takes it.... But he's always seemed to value being a Spur, and that has value beyond the dollar amount.

As for Devin? No breakdown to be had - I'm tired of him! :lol I stopped expecting his shots to go in last season, and he frustrates me as a player. As others mention, he's also a very prominent vestige of the tanking seasons, and I'd love to see the Spurs ship him up, open up that role and minutes, and fully "turn the page" there.

With this FA class being weak, Keldon's salary isn't too much of impediment now and theoretically he would be part of what gets moved out if a better option comes along via trade, so it's not a huge deal. Next summer he'll be an expiring so even more moveable, so he's really not a problem.

I don't have a problem if we still roll with Keldon as a bench piece, even as the 6th man, but one of he or Devin has got to go. They are wholly incompatible together (I started a thread on this during the season). And Devin's only viable path on this team is as 6th man IMO (at which point he's really overpaid, but we can manage).

[DAF86]

Yeah, and I would add that he's a great guy to have at practices and internal scrimmages. This is again something most people overlook since cameras don't show it; but the same way you have your lazy-ass Iverson's "We talkin' 'bout practice!" who don't give a shit about anything besides their on-court play, you also have your "100% energy all the time" guys like Keldon or Westbrook. And (again in the right context) I'd much, much rather have the latter on my team. It makes everyone adjust to their energy and have to play harder and meaningfully, setting the tone.

Your questions are fair.... Keldon did seem mysteriously down around the trade deadline, very bummed on interviews. Maybe it was just "hot seat nerves" as he's a perfect trade candidate, but I can also see him not staying eternally content as his role diminishes further when the team brings in more promising, talented, and younger players that take away his minutes.

How he takes that is a measure of his professionalism - he's already been paid life-changing money, so it's not a Scottie Pippen situation. Looking at him from the outside, having followed him since he was a rookie on the Austin Toros, I kinda have a hard time imagining him "souring" on the team and his role -- especially if the Spurs start to seriously trend upwards and win games, as they're expected to. "Winning cures all" remains true and applies here; nobody wants to be the 15th man on a tanking squad, of course.

I asked this to Spurraider and ask you too, since you brought it up; how many years does Keldon have left at that salary? I can absolutely see the FO negotiating a low-ball for his next contract. Something of a "we did right by you when we were bad, now it's your turn to sacrifice" kinda thing. Again, we'll see if and how he takes it.... But he's always seemed to value being a Spur, and that has value beyond the dollar amount.

As for Devin? No breakdown to be had - I'm tired of him! :lol I stopped expecting his shots to go in last season, and he frustrates me as a player. As others mention, he's also a very prominent vestige of the tanking seasons, and I'd love to see the Spurs ship him up, open up that role and minutes, and fully "turn the page" there.

You stopped expecting Devin's shots to go in but still want to keep Keldon when Keldon is even less efficient than Devin? At least if Vassell stopped thinking he's Kobe, he could be semiserviceable as a guy that can shoot and defend (if he puts his effort into it) at least at average levels. Keldon has no redeeming quality whatsoever.

[DAF86]

:lol posters here still thinking Keldon is useful on the roster because of the Power of Friendship

Basically this. Lol :lol

[exstatic]

:lol posters here still thinking Keldon is useful on the roster because of the Power of Friendship

I think he’s useful because he’s one of only two players on this team that can bully their way to the rim and score.

[LeBowen]

I don't really want KD, but a part of me wants Devin+Keldon+Jeremy package to be traded for him just so we're fucking done with hoping they'll eventually turn a corner and become consistent, positive contributors.
It's time to actually compete, Castle has shown huge improvements during his rookie year, meanwhile these three scrubs haven't done shit over many years despite having no pressure to win games or perform.

[scott]

I don't really want KD, but a part of me wants Devin+Keldon+Jeremy package to be traded for him just so we're fucking done with hoping they'll eventually turn a corner and become consistent, positive contributors.
It's time to actually compete, Castle has shown huge improvements during his rookie year, meanwhile these three scrubs haven't done shit over many years despite having no pressure to win games or perform.

I'd do it if KD doesn't expect an extension (or will extend for 2/20 or some other absurdly low ring-chasing discount). Great way to clear up a bunch of cap space for 2026.

[ss1986v2]

I have been wondering what people's temperatures would be about something involving Cam Johnson? Have liked his game for several years now, think he fills a role offensively. I think there were reports that Brooklyn was looking for 2ish 1st round picks for him, so I'd assume they didn't find takers at that price. So maybe something around the price of 2 "fake" picks (ie, heavily protected/late 1sts) or 1 real pick plus lesser assets?

So something built around Keldon and figuring out what of Spurs '25, ATL '25, Sochan, poo-poo platter of future 2nds gets the rest of the way there. What would be the price point that people would be willing to pull that trigger? Or are people more out on Cam than I am?

[LeBowen]

I'd do it if KD doesn't expect an extension (or will extend for 2/20 or some other absurdly low ring-chasing discount). Great way to clear up a bunch of cap space for 2026.

I'd be fine with offering him a 1 year max for 26-27 season. Wemby's extension kicks in for 27-28.
Those three and a bunch of seconds would be my offer to the Suns. Maybe a lottery protected FRP.
They're in no position to negotiate.


I have been wondering what people's temperatures would be about something involving Cam Johnson? Have liked his game for several years now, think he fills a role offensively. I think there were reports that Brooklyn was looking for 2ish 1st round picks for him, so I'd assume they didn't find takers at that price. So maybe something around the price of 2 "fake" picks (ie, heavily protected/late 1sts) or 1 real pick plus lesser assets?

So something built around Keldon and figuring out what of Spurs '25, ATL '25, Sochan, poo-poo platter of future 2nds gets the rest of the way there. What would be the price point that people would be willing to pull that trigger? Or are people more out on Cam than I am?

Cam is a good player, but this season it looked like we need a physical presence at PF.
Neither Cam nor Barnes are strong enough for a PF role in serious matchups.
I don't think Wright would trade for him unless the price is fair.

[ss1986v2]

Cam is a good player, but this season it looked like we need a physical presence at PF.
Neither Cam nor Barnes are strong enough for a PF role in serious matchups.
I don't think Wright would trade for him unless the price is fair.

I agree with that assessment. Who would your target be there?

I've not hated the idea of John Collins, but the actual player, I have a hard time selling myself on sometimes. Add that every team he's on seems fine to move on from him gives me pause. Still, the archetype is intriguing. But I worry about looking for the perfect fit gets in the way of a good fit. Which is why I like a guy like Cam. Open to other options, of course.

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree with that assessment. Who would your target be there?

I've not hated the idea of John Collins, but the actual player, I have a hard time selling myself on sometimes. Add that every team he's on seems fine to move on from him gives me pause. Still, the archetype is intriguing. But I worry about looking for the perfect fit gets in the way of a good fit. Which is why I like a guy like Cam. Open to other options, of course.

he played for 2 teams in his entire NBA career :lol

[ss1986v2]

he played for 2 teams in his entire NBA career :lol

And both have been more than willing to move on from him lol. I still find him intriguing. Especially on what I would hope is the best team he's played for.

[Mal]

I think he’s useful because he’s one of only two players on this team that can bully their way to the rim and score.

Or turn it over

[MannyIsGod]

17 million is pretty fair for the scoring production you get from Keldon. People just look for someone to blame. The idea that you HAVE to move him right now is just dumb.

[Knoxxx]

I think he’s useful because he’s one of only two players on this team that can bully their way to the rim and score.

When I pointed out same it was tank king and worthless playing with Wemby as the retorts. Those are not invalid complaints or observations. But, being able to beat your man 1 v 1 and punish defenses physically are not common skills at the NBA level. Most of all KJ played with HEART. I can see him having a productive role off the bench for us. Sure I would be happy with an upgrade if that’s in the cards, but I can also see a path for him to contribute for us in a well defined bench role in 2025-6.

[Knoxxx]

Or turn it over

That’s why the role needs to be simple and well defined. Being able to have one of our big 3 and Keldon on the floor and avoid going negative while the other main two stars catch a breather is valuable.

[spurraider21]

17 million is pretty fair for the scoring production you get from Keldon. People just look for someone to blame. The idea that you HAVE to move him right now is just dumb.
the reason i would say its the right time to move keldon is not because we can't afford to pay 17.5 mil for his production...

its that in the second half of the season i think he played well enough to rehab some of his value. he has 2 years left on his deal for 17.5mil apiece which isnt awful. so he may actually be a somewhat appealing trade piece to certain teams. better to deal him now than wait a year and a half and then try to get anything for him. whether or not we move on from him asap, i think we can all agree he's probably not a fit for our long term plans

[exstatic]

And both have been more than willing to move on from him lol. I still find him intriguing. Especially on what I would hope is the best team he's played for.

Atlanta has had a rolling four year roster fire sale to cut costs. That’s why they moved him. Ainge took him, plus some assets as a salary dump. That’s why he’s willing to move him.

[tbdog]

Just looking at players salary between 14 and 20 mil, nothing jumps out as a straight up swap for Johnson that would make sense for both teams. Maybe a low key move for Mitchell Robinson, just to get some backup center out there. I would eye Jalen Mcdaniels and the Twolves cap situation with Reid's looming pay rise.

But to be honest, I think the Spurs are willing to go after someone bigger or package a bigger deal involving Johnson. Like could Bam be put on the market. He would be a good pairing with Wemby and Fox.

[Arguendo]

I agree with that assessment. Who would your target be there?

I've not hated the idea of John Collins, but the actual player, I have a hard time selling myself on sometimes. Add that every team he's on seems fine to move on from him gives me pause. Still, the archetype is intriguing. But I worry about looking for the perfect fit gets in the way of a good fit. Which is why I like a guy like Cam. Open to other options, of course.

PJ Washington could be a great fit, feels like he should be gettable.
Real world he's insurance for AD, but in fairytale world where Nico still has a job and must assume AD will be healthy, there's just no minutes with Lively & Gafford. He's an expiring at just over $14M next yr, Mavs have 12 under contract $3M below the 1st Apron and need a starting PG (maybe Tyus Jones?). They've gone all-in with a 2 yr window, gotta do something now and prolly want to stay under the apron for roster flexibility.

PJ for Wesley, Branham, and a min works money wise +2nds or a highly protected '27. Mavs free up $5Mish.
Or PJ/Caleb Martin for Sochan/Wes/Bran+min and a 2nd(s) frees about $7M, although they're prolly not ready to salary dump Martin.

Maybe not a bad gamble for 22 y/o with "potential" that give you needed depth (PG/PF/.408% 3pt shooter) and have movable, expiring contracts with team control. Gafford is also expiring at $14.4M so maybe more likely they look to trade him to make it a AD/Lively/PJ rotation, but both where brought in to play with Luka and Gafford has a much clearer role with a healthy AD and Lively doesn't look ready to play 30mpg yet.

The PJ price can't be high, roster is F-d & against the apron, expiring who doesn't fit with AD at PF. Strong, switchable forward with hops and length, 38% last yr, 36% career.
I would love him & would rather pay him vs Sochan, arguably addition by subtraction alone of the '21 draft class for us but all 3 have some legitimate change-of-scenery potential, and Mavs need to get busy. If any of the 3 turn a corner suddenly the Mavs have an extra asset or two plus the pick(s) to do something in the AD/Kyrie/(Klay?) window.

Mavs can get more for PJ if he extends (I'd be open to giving the ATL '25 depending where it lands w/ PJ on a reasonable 3-4yr K), but I doubt anyone would give up a potential lottery 1st as an expiring, and we know Nico doesn't feel the need to seek better offers. I'm prolly dreaming, but PJ would fit this roster well. Fox/DV/Castle/PJ/Wemby is fighting for that 4 seed. One can dream.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't really want KD, but a part of me wants Devin+Keldon+Jeremy package to be traded for him just so we're fucking done with hoping they'll eventually turn a corner and become consistent, positive contributors.
It's time to actually compete, Castle has shown huge improvements during his rookie year, meanwhile these three scrubs haven't done shit over many years despite having no pressure to win games or perform.

I'd do it in a heartbeat, I'd do Devin + Keldon + pick 8 for Durant too. He makes the Spurs significantly better, can fit in his massive contract for the next couple of years and he addresses so many needs for this roster. If they're going to play Fox and Castle they're going to need elite spacing because these two are unlikely to turn into good three point shooters.

Also, another vet would help a ton and the way Wemby speaks about KD he'll be all in on this as well. Just get Phoenix to accept somehow. Indications from Houston are that they're reluctant to trade for KD and the Spurs should use this and strike before Houston come to their senses.

I'd also prefer it if the Spurs stay over the cap and split the MLE between Brook Lopez and CP3 in this scenario.

[Arguendo]

Just looked at the Naz Reid thread, and saw:
Bruno's post -The blueprint of a S&T move with Spurs getting Naz Reid would be:

Spurs trade:
- 2 second round picks.
- 2030 first round pick swap with Minny.
- Branham
- Wesley
- One of Mamu, Bassey or McLaughlin S&T with a $3M/1 year guaranteed salary
Spurs get:
- Naz Reid with a $91M/4 years contract.

This is very similar to what I was thinking for PJ, except I would not give up the Dallas Swap-too valuable w/o Luka- and I'd expect PJ to make less than Naz, more like $80-85/4 yrs, vs $100/4 with Naz. Naz is prolly a better shooter, is a yr younger, more durable, and slightly longer/taller and much heavier, but I think PJ is the better defender, rebounder, and much more versatile/switchable. I'd rather have Naz at C but I think he'll be way harder to get and cost more assets and money.
But maybe I'm crazy to think PJ is as available as he looks. Mavs off-season will be very interesting.

[Ice009]

I think he’s useful because he’s one of only two players on this team that can bully their way to the rim and score.

So with this, yes, I like that he can get to the rim, but IMO, he predetermines those drives to the basket and doesn't see anything else along the way. Sometimes, he needs to adjust and maybe a pass is a better option.
Steph bullies his way to the rim too, but he can also pass the ball out if need be. I've hardly ever seen Keldon do that ever.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

This summer will be a busy and happy one for spurs fans.

Since we clearly have a big-3 foundation for championship, the FOs strategy will be different from past years. Will be more aggressive than usual.

We will get one of Reid, PJ or John Collins plus a proven wing shooter. In order for this to happen, , one or two of Devin, Keldon, Sochan will have to be moved.

Our draft strategy will be different from before. Will be more likely t pick safe, 3-D, NBA ready guys than long-term potential, unless a candidate's potential is too overwhelming to ignore.

[Jordan Jackson]

The guy is a no 3 or D wing. He has a roster spot because he’s the equivalent of the team’s mascot. If you’re serious about winning - he’s nowhere near your top rotation.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The guy is a no 3 or D wing. He has a roster spot because he’s the equivalent of the team’s mascot. If you’re serious about winning - he’s nowhere near your top rotation.

Who are you referring to?

[exstatic]

So with this, yes, I like that he can get to the rim, but IMO, he predetermines those drives to the basket and doesn't see anything else along the way. Sometimes, he needs to adjust and maybe a pass is a better option.
Steph bullies his way to the rim too, but he can also pass the ball out if need be. I've hardly ever seen Keldon do that ever.

Castle was drafted #4 overall. Keldon was drafted #30. They are not the same type of player. They don’t even play the same position.

[Raven]

This summer will be a busy and happy one for spurs fans.

Since we clearly have a big-3 foundation for championship, the FOs strategy will be different from past years. Will be more aggressive than usual.

We will get one of Reid, PJ or John Collins plus a proven wing shooter. In order for this to happen, , one or two of Devin, Keldon, Sochan will have to be moved.

Our draft strategy will be different from before. Will be more likely t pick safe, 3-D, NBA ready guys than long-term potential, unless a candidate's potential is too overwhelming to ignore.


who are the big 3 exactly? i hope you don't seriously intend to pair fox with castle :lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Fox and castle can coexist if we add shooters around them. Say, Kon and Naz Reid.

[Leetonidas]

I think he’s useful because he’s one of only two players on this team that can bully their way to the rim and score.

When exactly does Sochan bully his way to the rim and score? Most of his scores at the rim come off cuts or pick and rolls where he ends up wide open. Usually when he "bullies" someone to the basket he stops in front of the restricted area and then tosses it back out :lol dude has zero ability to score when someone is on him at the basket. He settles for little hooks or fadeways that rarely connect

Edit: I can't fucking read :lol thought I clicked the Sochan thread

[exstatic]

When exactly does Sochan bully his way to the rim and score? Most of his scores at the rim come off cuts or pick and rolls where he ends up wide open. Usually when he "bullies" someone to the basket he stops in front of the restricted area and then tosses it back out :lol dude has zero ability to score when someone is on him at the basket. He settles for little hooks or fadeways that rarely connect

Do you understand which thread you’re in? We’re not discussing Jeremy.

[Ice009]

Castle was drafted #4 overall. Keldon was drafted #30. They are not the same type of player. They don’t even play the same position.

I understand what you're saying, but pick number is irrelevant to me. Manu was the 57th or whatever pick, and he was a master at adjusting on the fly and passing out if he had to. I don't expect Keldon to be at either Manu or Steph's level passing wise, but darn, a pass every now at then instead of having blinders on when driving to the rim would be a good thing.

[exstatic]

I understand what you're saying, but pick number if irrelevant to me. Manu was the 57th or whatever pick, and he was a master at adjusting on the fly and passing out if he had to. I don't expect Keldon to be at either Manu or Steph's level passing wise, but darn, a pass every now at then instead of having blinders on when driving to the rim would be a good thing.

Manu was drafted before extensive Euro scouting. I mean, he was the euro league MVP, and MVP of the Euroleague final four. You’re still not talking the same caliber of player as Keldon.

[Leetonidas]

Do you understand which thread you’re in? We’re not discussing Jeremy.

:lmao shit youre right I thought I clicked on the Sochan thread. Now your comment makes a lot more sense tbh. My bad lol

[spurraider21]

Manu was drafted before extensive Euro scouting. I mean, he was the euro league MVP, and MVP of the Euroleague final four. You’re still not talking the same caliber of player as Keldon.
there was no overalle euroleague mvp until 2004

manu did win euroleague finals mvp in 2001, which was 2 years after he was drafted

[scott]

This summer will be a busy and happy one for spurs fans.

Since we clearly have a big-3 foundation for championship, the FOs strategy will be different from past years. Will be more aggressive than usual.

We will get one of Reid, PJ or John Collins plus a proven wing shooter. In order for this to happen, , one or two of Devin, Keldon, Sochan will have to be moved.

Our draft strategy will be different from before. Will be more likely t pick safe, 3-D, NBA ready guys than long-term potential, unless a candidate's potential is too overwhelming to ignore.

Local derp media, by way of Jeff McDonald this time, has a story in the E-N about Keldon and trade rumors: https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/keldon-johnson-endure-another-offseason-trade-20279036.php

This was the interesting tidbit to me:


With the Spurs perhaps less active on the trade market this summer than they were two months ago, it is possible – if not probable – Johnson survives to see a seventh season with the Spurs.

I wonder if the Spurs have already spoon fed to their media puppets that they don't intend on any big moves this offseason.

I've been saying for awhile, I kind of expect the Spurs to run it back next season with some minor changes (CP3 not returning as a starter being the biggest) and our draft picks. I don't think this is what many of us want, but I think we should prepare for it to happen.

[Ice009]

Oh, geez. Spurs are just too slow to realize things. They dragged the DeRozan thing on too long. I hope they don't do the same with this.

Probably won't be hiring any of these coaches either. I also hope they don't come to this realization too late if Pop does decide to step down and all the coaches are hired by other teams.

Edit : Holy crap. I hadn't been to the front page and refreshed it before I posted the thing about Pop. Did not see that TMZ thread. At this point, I hope he's alright and I don't care about the coaching. I thought he'd be fine if he doesn't coach, but that might not be the case :(. I really hope he's going to be OK.

[spurraider21]

i think its fair to speculate that. in previous years the spurs were somewhat active making moves because they were selling cap space. trading the draft pick last year, trading for barnes, dealing away Graham. the previous offseason with the osman/payne/bullock trades.

and to the extent the spurs were primed to make one big trade for a star, while they haven't emptied the cubpoard, the Fox trade has already fulfilled that

if the right trade falls into their lap im sure they'll look but im not expecting massive activity either. keldon's contract is solid for trade purposes, but next offseason he'd be a 17.5m expiring deal, even better.

[DAF86]

17 million is pretty fair for the scoring production you get from Keldon. People just look for someone to blame. The idea that you HAVE to move him right now is just dumb.

Scoring production? What about the rest of his game? He's not a winning player, never will be. He doesn't have the skillset that championship winning role players posses (defense, shooting, IQ, clutchness). The sooner we get rid of him, the better for the franchise.

[Sugus]

You stopped expecting Devin's shots to go in but still want to keep Keldon when Keldon is even less efficient than Devin? At least if Vassell stopped thinking he's Kobe, he could be semiserviceable as a guy that can shoot and defend (if he puts his effort into it) at least at average levels. Keldon has no redeeming quality whatsoever.

Missed this reply.

Yes, of course, why would you draw the comparison? They fulfill entirely different roles on the team.

I wouldn't keep Keldon because of his efficiency - I've already explained why I like him on the team, and it's not exactly his 3pt% :lol. And one of the reasons I'd rather have him over Vassell is exactly why you're wrong here -- I have much more faith in Keldon adapting to, and embracing his bench role-playing, glue-guy role, than I do in Vassell waking up tomorrow and completely changing his game and inspirations in order to become the player you wish he would be instead of what he actually is.

Keldon is cheaper, already has taken a backseat for the team, has a non-crucial role that the Spurs have no trouble building around, and most of all, is not a Kobe chucker (and can be easily benched if he starts to become one). Your starting SG isn't as easily benched, and has a much larger impact on the team, while also having the bigger opportunity cost in terms of occupying a place that could be filled by superior players.

I'm a fan of the saying "Believe people when they tell you who they are". Devin has clearly chosen his game and it's nothing like you fantasize here. But sure, let's keep him bogging down the team for years on end, in the hopes that he'll snap out of it and become this selfless, defense-first, sniper.... :rolleyes

[DAF86]

Missed this reply.

Yes, of course, why would you draw the comparison? They fulfill entirely different roles on the team.

I wouldn't keep Keldon because of his efficiency - I've already explained why I like him on the team, and it's not exactly his 3pt% :lol. And one of the reasons I'd rather have him over Vassell is exactly why you're wrong here -- I have much more faith in Keldon adapting to, and embracing his bench role-playing, glue-guy role, than I do in Vassell waking up tomorrow and completely changing his game and inspirations in order to become the player you wish he would be instead of what he actually is.

Keldon is cheaper, already has taken a backseat for the team, has a non-crucial role that the Spurs have no trouble building around, and most of all, is not a Kobe chucker (and can be easily benched if he starts to become one). Your starting SG isn't as easily benched, and has a much larger impact on the team, while also having the bigger opportunity cost in terms of occupying a place that could be filled by superior players.

I'm a fan of the saying "Believe people when they tell you who they are". Devin has clearly chosen his game and it's nothing like you fantasize here. But sure, let's keep him bogging down the team for years on end, in the hopes that he'll snap out of it and become this selfless, defense-first, sniper.... :rolleyes

If it were up to me, trade both, but if we have to keep one, I'd much rather keep Vassell in hopes of him accepting a lesser role than keeping Keldon to be the same exact player he is now. Why would you want to keep Keldon on his current role when he so clearly sucks at it? :lol at least with Vassell you get the hope of him becoming a better player with a changed role.

[spursistan]

This dude is already acting like he is the Spurs' Udonis Haslem. Zero chance he gets moved. :lol

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1918353788970193199

[Ice009]

Mitch would move up a notch or two for me if he trades Keldon a little while after that phone call for a player that fits better on the team.

Again, I really like Keldon the person, but he's not the best fit on this team. I've been hoping he could become better, have more awareness on drives to dish instead of only seeing the basket with bliders on, and also being a decent defender, but if it hasn't happened by now, not sure he still has room for growth. If the Spurs keep him, I really do hope he can still somehow improve and become a key player for a Spurs team looking to make deep playoff runs.

[Sugus]

If it were up to me, trade both, but if we have to keep one, I'd much rather keep Vassell in hopes of him accepting a lesser role than keeping Keldon to be the same exact player he is now. Why would you want to keep Keldon on his current role when he so clearly sucks at it? :lol at least with Vassell you get the hope of him becoming a better player with a changed role.

I see, interesting. I'm honestly just way down on Vassell and don't have hopes that he can become a player anywhere worth his salary, nor accept a bench role he could be better-suited for, which Keldon has already embraced. Major difference there in my eyes.

I would give Keldon at the least another season under his bench role before completely discarding him; and it's because I think his playstyle is very well suited for a bench player. If (IF) he can find his 3pt shot back, then a bench-spark player that is a tough driver and also space the floor definitely has value for the Spurs. This season had a lot of moving pieces and I'd like to see him under the new Castle-Fox-Wemby hierarchy or lineups.

And again, the sticking point for me is that Vassell occupies a much more important, central role for team building. I don't think Vassell is our SG (much less SF) of the future, and since I want the Spurs to find that ASAP, he's the player who fits the post title to me.

[The Truth #6]

I'll defer to the statisticians here, but the team's high offensive rating at the end of the season, I have to wonder, it may in small part be from Kelson playing small ball 4 again during that time his natural position, honestly, despite all his impressive weight loss.

His bullying drives to the rim are a good thing. If his 3 is dropping, I think he is the lesser of two eveils, so to speak, compared to Devin.

[The Truth #6]

I'll defer to the statisticians here, but the team's high offensive rating at the end of the season, I have to wonder, it may in small part be from Kelson playing small ball 4 again during that time his natural position, honestly, despite all his impressive weight loss.

His bullying drives to the rim are a good thing. If his 3 is dropping, I think he is the lesser of two eveils, so to speak, compared to Devin.

[DAF86]

In the wake of the Kornet signing, I'm simply going to say that our bench unit projects to be this one:

Harper, Champagnie, Keldon, Sochan and Kornet.

For those of you counting at home that is one average shooter, two below average ones and two complete non-shooters. I'm anticipating it right now, so that there's no one that can act surpised later: THAT UNIT IS GONNA SUCK MAJOR ASS.

It is imperative that we move Keldon for some actual shooting, and it needs to be now. There's no point in starting the season with this extremely flawed rotation, get our hopes crushing down, the confidence of our players down and the trade values even lower. Just a heads up, tbh.

[Spurs Brazil]

Johnson must go. Spurs desperately need a shooter in the 2nd unit

[TimDunkem]

He needs to be the first of the turd trio to be moved. Vassell has more trade value, and Barnes can actually hit a shot. Keeping KJ quite literally makes no sense at this point.

[timtonymanu]

Only reason he’s still here is the front office loyalty, but he desperately needs to go. He’s part of the remnants of Pop’s “bigger than basketball” coaching mentality. I wish they traded him last year.

Can’t wait until he misses 5 3’s a game but wins the sniffers over because he made an and-1 layup and yelled

[ambchang]

In the wake of the Kornet signing, I'm simply going to say that our bench unit projects to be this one:

Harper, Champagnie, Keldon, Sochan and Kornet.

For those of you counting at home that is one average shooter, two below average ones and two complete non-shooters. I'm anticipating it right now, so that there's no one that can act surpised later: THAT UNIT IS GONNA SUCK MAJOR ASS.

It is imperative that we move Keldon for some actual shooting, and it needs to be now. There's no point in starting the season with this extremely flawed rotation, get our hopes crushing down, the confidence of our players down and the trade values even lower. Just a heads up, tbh.

I’m not sure how many teams play a 10 man rotation, let alone have an entire second unit lineup play any meaningful trio minutes.

[DAF86]

I’m not sure how many teams play a 10 man rotation, let alone have an entire second unit lineup play any meaningful trio minutes.

The Spurs have a history of doing just that, tbh.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

If you were an NBA team, would you trade for KJ?

[spurraider21]

If you were an NBA team, would you trade for KJ?
I’d trade for second round picks

[SpursFan86]

I don’t even necessarily think Keldon is some terrible player, but it’s just obvious at this point he isn’t really needed on this team.

Between Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Barnes/Bryant the vast majority of minutes at the 3/4 are taken. It seems decently likely we add Yabusele. What’s the point of keeping Keldon? At this point I’d move him for pretty much anything as even just getting rid of his contract would be a positive. Those other guys all have their calling cards, but what is Keldon’s strength that we’d sorely miss if he got moved?

[DAF86]

If you were an NBA team, would you trade for KJ?

If I'm getting additional assets, sure. There's also the chance of some GM still overrating Keldon, like you do, and get rid of him without giving up anything else.

[scott]

It would be funny if signing Yabu is what finally led to Keldon being shipped out, since Yabu is kind of like a dump truck-ier version of Keldon's unrealized potential

[TimmyBuckets]

They'll package him for a good, not great player. That or they'll put him with Vasell for Giannis and picks or something like that. Right now though, he's an energy guy off the bench who'll fight for the ball. I don't hate him cuz we have so much damn depth!!

[DAF86]

They'll package him for a good, not great player. That or they'll put him with Vasell for Giannis and picks or something like that. Right now though, he's an energy guy off the bench who'll fight for the ball. I don't hate him cuz we have so much damn depth!!

What depth are we talking about here? 6 straight losing seasons depth? Sure.

We added 2 rookies and a third string center, while doing nothing to adress our biggest weakness. I think folks are overrating our off season so far. Until we add a shooter or two to the rotation, I don't see us making the playoffs, tbh.

[baseline bum]

He needs to be the first of the turd trio to be moved. Vassell has more trade value, and Barnes can actually hit a shot. Keeping KJ quite literally makes no sense at this point.

You don't trade Barnes, as he's a very useful player and one of the big reasons the team was a lot better this year than last. You purge the losers from the tank core like every other team does when they get the players to start winning. Vassell has to be first to go because of his horrendous contract even though Keldon is a way worse player. But they both have to go. Sochan can join them too if he doesn't show up big this season.

[TekXX]

What depth are we talking about here? 6 straight losing seasons depth? Sure.

We added 2 rookies and a third string center, while doing nothing to adress our biggest weakness. I think folks are overrating our off season so far. Until we add a shooter or two to the rotation, I don't see us making the playoffs, tbh.

It happens every off season. We forget just how badly they played last season and convince ourselves they'll be good next season. If Vassell, Johnson and Sochan continue to be important players on this team it will be a repeat, they can't win in this league.

[baseline bum]

They'll package him for a good, not great player. That or they'll put him with Vasell for Giannis and picks or something like that. Right now though, he's an energy guy off the bench who'll fight for the ball. I don't hate him cuz we have so much damn depth!!

He's our get torched constantly defensive traffic cone and miss a bunch of open threes guy off the bench. He's genuinely awful and the team can't purge him from the roster soon enough.

[TimmyBuckets]

What depth are we talking about here? 6 straight losing seasons depth? Sure.

We added 2 rookies and a third string center, while doing nothing to adress our biggest weakness. I think folks are overrating our off season so far. Until we add a shooter or two to the rotation, I don't see us making the playoffs, tbh.

We got shooters: Vassell, Champ, Barnes, Wemby, Bryant (rook). We can add 1 sharpshooter and be fine. We needed a 3-D wing, and we got an elite one in the draft. We needed a backup big? We got one. I'm sure they'll pick up a sharpshooter.

[mo7888]

Send him to Miami for DR, then trade Devin +Castle + Sochan + Branham + Wesley + a few picks for Giannis. Fill in the remaining spots with Minix and ring chasing vets.

[spurs10]

It would be funny if signing Yabu is what finally led to Keldon being shipped out, since Yabu is kind of like a dump truck-ier version of Keldon's unrealized potential No rumours on Yabusele? Thought we''d hear something, if only he went elsewhere.

[Ice009]

No rumours on Yabusele? Thought we''d hear something, if only he went elsewhere.

He's not going to be getting a big money deal from the Spurs, so he might want to think about it. He might want to play for a team that gives him more court time so he can raise his value for a bigger contract. Not sure his biggest priority is.

[scott]

No rumours on Yabusele? Thought we''d hear something, if only he went elsewhere.

Have only seen that one Spurs reporter saying they have serious interest in him. My guess is as good as any beyond that.

I like the Keldon for Duncan Robinson idea.

[DAF86]

We got shooters: Vassell, Champ, Barnes, Wemby, Bryant (rook). We can add 1 sharpshooter and be fine. We needed a 3-D wing, and we got an elite one in the draft. We needed a backup big? We got one. I'm sure they'll pick up a sharpshooter.

I loved the Bryant pickup but let's pump the breaks. He's not elite at anything, he's a rook. For all we know he could be the next Primo. He doesn't even project to be in the rotation.

You named 5 shooters, 1 of those is the rookie we talked about, that won't even play. Of the remaining 4, 2 shot a below average % (Wemby and Champagnie). That leave us with only two above average 3pt shooters in the entire roster. Compare that to what the last two finalists had, where seemingly every rotation player was capable of hitting open 3s and you'll see how far behind we are on this regard.

[TimmyBuckets]

I loved the Bryant pickup but let's pump the breaks. He's not elite at anything, he's a rook. For all we know he could be the next Primo. He doesn't even project to be in the rotation.

You named 5 shooters, 1 of those is the rookie we talked about, that won't even play. Of the remaining 4, 2 shot a below average % (Wemby and Champagnie). That leave us with only two above average 3pt shooters in the entire roster. Compare that to what the last two finalists had, where seemingly every rotation player was capable of hitting open 3s and you'll see how far behind we are on this regard.

Spurs aren't competing for a chip this year. That was never going to be the case. Let's pump the breaks on that. You want a roster full of all shooters? Then trade almost everyone. There's only so much the Spurs can do with what they have. They picked up 2 positions of need. That's already really good. Did they expect to get the #2 pick? No. Were there any trade offers worth trading a Cade Cuningham comp/easily #2 pick? No. The rest either comes in FA or by trade. Give me some trade ideas to get 3-4 extra shooters that OKC had. It's not happening. We're not OKC. They started their rebuild years before us. They got Shai years before us. He's an MVP. You work with what what you have. Yea Keldon sucks balls. Who are they going to trad him for? 29 year old Yabusele in a sign and trade? Come on. You can't make everyone happy. Spurs didn't get 4 3 shooters and only got the second best player in the draft and the best player available at 14, and a desperately needed backup center position. Man what a disappointment lol.

[DAF86]

Spurs aren't competing for a chip this year. That was never going to be the case. Let's pump the breaks on that. You want a roster full of all shooters? Then trade almost everyone. There's only so much the Spurs can do with what they have. They picked up 2 positions of need. That's already really good. Did they expect to get the #2 pick? No. Were there any trade offers worth trading a Cade Cuningham comp/easily #2 pick? No. The rest either comes in FA or by trade. Give me some trade ideas to get 3-4 extra shooters that OKC had. It's not happening. We're not OKC. They started their rebuild years before us. They got Shai years before us. He's an MVP. You work with what what you have. Yea Keldon sucks balls. Who are they going to trad him for? 29 year old Yabusele in a sign and trade? Come on. You can't make everyone happy. Spurs didn't get 4 3 shooters and only got the second best player in the draft and the best player available at 14, and a desperately needed backup center position. Man what a disappointment lol.

I'm not expecting a championship, but I do expect a playoffs push, but if we don't adress the glaring shooting issue, we're not achieving that either. That's why I'm not asking for 3 or 4 shooters, just one or two.

Just replacing Keldon with one shooter, would make a World of difference for the overall fit and production of the entire rotation.

Sing and trade with Miami for Duncan Robinson. That's an option.

[scott]

I'm not expecting a championship, but I do expect a playoffs push, but if we don't adress the glaring shooting issue, we're not achieving that either. That's why I'm not asking for 3 or 4 shooters, just one or two.

Just replacing Keldon with one shooter, would make a World of difference for the overall fit and production of the entire rotation.

Sing and trade with Miami for Duncan Robinson. That's an option.

I'm with you, but I am concerned over what Miami would require back to take Keldon. They can just let Robinson walk and clear the money off their books, I don't think they're thinking they need a Keldon Johnson. If I were the Heat, I'd want an FRP - and if I were the Spurs I'm not sure it would be worth it.

[TimmyBuckets]

I'm not expecting a championship, but I do expect a playoffs push, but if we don't adress the glaring shooting issue, we're not achieving that either. That's why I'm not asking for 3 or 4 shooters, just one or two.

Just replacing Keldon with one shooter, would make a World of difference for the overall fit and production of the entire rotation.

Sing and trade with Miami for Duncan Robinson. That's an option.

I like DR but he's 31 and a sign and trade would probably be a 2-4 year deal on a guy who's past his prime. He can put the ball on the floor a bit, but his defense is arguably worse than Keldon's. He has elite shooting of course, but the age difference is took big I think. This will lock you in a declining player for a swap on a 24 years old declining contract. If all you want is shooting you can pick that up in Yabu or another FA, but a straight up trade for KJ a negative. I agree we need shooting, but not in that deal.

[DAF86]

I'm with you, but I am concerned over what Miami would require back to take Keldon. They can just let Robinson walk and clear the money off their books, I don't think they're thinking they need a Keldon Johnson. If I were the Heat, I'd want an FRP - and if I were the Spurs I'm not sure it would be worth it.


I like DR but he's 31 and a sign and trade would probably be a 2-4 year deal on a guy who's past his prime. He can put the ball on the floor a bit, but his defense is arguably worse than Keldon's. He has elite shooting of course, but the age difference is took big I think. This will lock you in a declining player for a swap on a 24 years old declining contract. If all you want is shooting you can pick that up in Yabu or another FA, but a straight up trade for KJ a negative. I agree we need shooting, but not in that deal.

Utah wants to get rid of Collins, I wonder if they would take on Keldon's contract if we attach some 2nd rounders.

Fox-----------------Harper
Castle-------------Champagnie
Vassell-----------Sochan
Collins------------Barnes
Wemby-----------Kornet

You would be adressing two needs here: better shooting and more size at the PF position.

[TimmyBuckets]

Utah wants to get rid of Collins, I wonder if they would take on Keldon's contract if we attach some 2nd rounders.

Fox-----------------Harper
Castle-------------Champagnie
Vassell-----------Sochan
Collins------------Barnes
Wemby-----------Kornet

You would be adressing two needs here: better shooting and more size at the PF position.

I mean no one here's going to say no to that deal loll. That would be an insane fleecing. They're going to want a first rounder at least though I think, but if not then perfect. Starting Center/PF in Collins and PF/Center in Wemby.

[DAF86]

I mean no one here's going to say no to that deal loll. That would be an insane fleecing. They're going to want a first rounder at least though I think, but if not then perfect. Starting Center/PF in Collins and PF/Center in Wemby.

Ainge has been giving away talent for virtually nothing this offseason, tbh.

[Extra Stout]

Keldon is hot garbage and would require draft assets to unload unless he is salary ballast in a bigger deal. There are no trades where the Spurs get to dump a poor-shooting traffic cone for a valuable rotation player.

[scott]

Ainge has been giving away talent for virtually nothing this offseason, tbh.

I think most people (save for a few) would be down for that deal... but again I wonder if Ainge would be. In the Sexton deal, they took back expiring money. They may not want to add anything on the books for the summer of 26, when by my estimation they can open up anywhere from $65-80MM of cap space (though I'm not sure there will actually be any FA worth chasing). Are they willing to put a $17MM dent in that for a couple of SRPs?

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t even necessarily think Keldon is some terrible player, but it’s just obvious at this point he isn’t really needed on this team.

Between Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Barnes/Bryant the vast majority of minutes at the 3/4 are taken. It seems decently likely we add Yabusele. What’s the point of keeping Keldon? At this point I’d move him for pretty much anything as even just getting rid of his contract would be a positive. Those other guys all have their calling cards, but what is Keldon’s strength that we’d sorely miss if he got moved?

emotional leadership. And I'm not even joking. That's what the Spurs FO would probably tell you if you ask them.


Utah wants to get rid of Collins, I wonder if they would take on Keldon's contract if we attach some 2nd rounders.

Fox-----------------Harper
Castle-------------Champagnie
Vassell-----------Sochan
Collins------------Barnes
Wemby-----------Kornet

You would be adressing two needs here: better shooting and more size at the PF position.

Will Hardy loves Keldon. If there's one coach in the league who would want Keldon on his roster, it's him.

[ambchang]

The Spurs have a history of doing just that, tbh.

Show me a season where they played a full bench lineup any meaningful minutes. I struggle to find one.

[eric365]

Even at the cost of a pick, he has to go
We need shooting and let the ball to Harper in the second unit

[Ariel]

Spurs should have pushed to include him in the Fox deal, I think one of Sacramento or Chicago would have taken him. Same thing for Vassell, it was sold as a coup that the Spurs managed to get Fox without giving up either Vassell or Keldon, but if Sacramento or Chicago saw any of them as positive value, they should have been included rather than some of the picks. I'd rather have Nickeil Alexander-Walker at 16 million a year than Vassell at 27 TBH.

[kobyz]

i just don't get why he's not transforming his game to a Lu Dort type

[DAF86]

Show me a season where they played a full bench lineup any meaningful minutes. I struggle to find one.

Every year of the beatiful basketball and pretty much every year from that moment onwards. There's always at least a moment where the 5 subs share the court.

[DAF86]

i just don't get why he's not transforming his game to a Lu Dort type

'Cause he can't.

[Mr. Body]

i just don't get why he's not transforming his game to a Lu Dort type

Only Lou Dort and Draymond Green get to play the 'foul every single possession' style of defense.

[LeBowen]

Only Lou Dort and Draymond Green get to play the 'foul every single possession' style of defense.

Don't forget KAT, but he doesn't get away with it. :lol

[TD 21]

Utah wants to get rid of Collins, I wonder if they would take on Keldon's contract if we attach some 2nd rounders.

2025 NBA Offseason Thread - Page 23 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305247&page=23&p=11267449#post11267449)

[ambchang]

Every year of the beatiful basketball and pretty much every year from that moment onwards. There's always at least a moment where the 5 subs share the court.

Again, I looked up the lineups. Cannot find a year where the full bench went out to play meaningful minutes.

[RC_Drunkford]

Show me a season where they played a full bench lineup any meaningful minutes. I struggle to find one.

2013 finals?

[ambchang]

2013 finals?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013/lineups/

That playoffs Duncan is in the top 9 lineups. Number 10 played 17 mins the entire playoffs and had a +51, I don’t recall that lineup playing meaningful minutes.

[DAF86]

Spurs' 10 best players (in no particular order, although, maybe):

Wemby
Fox
Harper
Castle
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
Kornet
Champagnie
Olynyk

Keldon is a 17 mil per year player that isn't even a rotation guy. There are 3 options:

1) You force him into the rotation, making yourself a lesser team.

2) You keep him out of the rotation and have your 17 millions per year guy's value plummet even more.

3) You trade him now and get back as much value as possible.

Which one do yall think is the better option?

And yes, that's a rethoric question.

[scott]

^pretty sad, considering there are only 12 guys on the team, and the other one is a project rookie :lol

At the same time... kind of nice to see the vast improvement in roster quality from when Keldon was our best player

But to your question... it's #2. We just had a $17MM/yr player sitting on the bench doing absolutely nothing in the penultimate year of his deal become useful in a trade for a Top 30 player. This appears to be Keldon's future sometime between now and this time next year (though probably not for another Top 30 player).