Somebody upstairs needs to tell Mitch that Castle has to play more

[DAF86]

16 pts, 7-9 shooting, 2-3 from 3. 19 minutes.

Meanwhile CP3 and Vassell stinking up the joint with 6 and 7 pts respectively at 30+ minutes each.

It's evident that Castle has turned a corner these last couple of weeks. He's starting to show flashes of all-star potential, yet our own coach handicaps his development in favour of a 40 year old that won't be here next season and a 5 season player that is starting to look like a role player at best.

One could understand this minutes distribution on a night where Castle isn't hitting and the other guys are doing well. But to have this on a game where the complete opposite is happening is inexcusable.

Mitch, get your shit together because you are squandering your showcase to be the coach of the future and we don't want you to squander Castle's rookie season too.

[dokdok]

He's obviously saving his legs for the dunk contest

[100%duncan]

Mitch is just happy to keep this job tbh

[LeBowen]

Mitch can't get his shit together because he's a placeholder with no authority.
CP0 needs to be the bigger man, state the obvious and offer to come off the bench.

Current starting lineup is just killing us, both CP0 and Vassell are massive negatives.

[DAF86]

Mitch is just happy to keep this job tbh

Well, if he wants to do that, he better play Castle more.

[RC_Drunkford]

You know Pop is calling him everyday telling him to keep starting CP3

[100%duncan]

Well, if he wants to do that, he better play Castle more.

Except that they obviously have a handshake agreement with CP3. Unfortunate.

[BatManu20]

Yea starting to think Mitch has no say in anything. Dude looks like a chained puppy dong on the sideline and feels like he's just trying his best not to piss PATFO off at this point cause his rotations are shit and he keeps benching our best players for guys like Keldon. We need a real HC. Mitch and Pop aren't the answer anymore. Need to bring in a legitimate, young Coach who understands ball and can be here for the long haul. Shouldn't be hard to convince someone to come and coach Wemby and Fox. I wonder if we could rip off ATL again and trade Keldon + a plethora of SRP's for Quin Snyder tbh.

[Mugen]

Castle is gonna be great at least. Hopefully the old man and Mitch won't be anywhere near the bench next season.

[Extra Stout]

If Castle gets let off his leash the Spurs might push .500, which could push them out of the lottery and take away one of their tickets for a Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey. They can’t count on that Atlanta pick because Atlanta is hovering around the play-in. They have to play Vassell and Johnson, and start CP3 to stay down around 30 wins.

[scott]

Mitch's lineups make me think of this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ3ETK7-ZM8

Fox/Castle/Vassell/Barnes/Wemby is the square peg in the square hole... Mitch's lineups are all the other pegs.

[Ice009]

Thanks for starting this thread. I was just about to come here and post asking what the F is going on. Why is Castle the 3rd guy off the bench with 4 minutes left in the first and 3rd quarters. Why is he not playing much? Why was he not there in crunch time. Luckily the Spurs won, otherwise I would have been about 10 times angrier.

[100%duncan]

Thanks for starting this thread. I was just about to come here and post asking what the F is going on. Why is Castle the 3rd guy off the bench with 4 minutes left in the first and 3rd quarters. Why is he not playing much? Why was he not there in crunch time. Luckily the Spurs won, otherwise I would have been about 10 times angrier.

All this limitation and yet he still has 16 on 7/9 :lol they're trying so hard to stunt this kid

[hater]

Thought Castle is injured

otherwise i would Say he shud play 40 mins a nite. I agree

[Ice009]

All this limitation and yet he still has 16 on 7/9 :lol they're trying so hard to stunt this kid

Spurs are going to lose the only players worth a darn on the team with stupid shit like this. Why would he hang around if they're going to do shit like this to him?

[Extra Stout]

Spurs are going to lose the only players worth a darn on the team with stupid shit like this. Why would he hang around if they're going to do shit like this to him?
Because next year Chris Paul will be gone and the starting backcourt will be Fox/Castle.

[Ice009]

Because next year Chris Paul will be gone and the starting backcourt will be Fox/Castle.

How do you know for sure CP3 will be gone. What is he stays another year? Are they still going to yank Castle around? This organization better wake up. I am starting to see why Kawhi left (he'd always get his numbers leveled off by being benched). What the Spurs do half the time, doesn't make sense.

[100%duncan]

Spurs are going to lose the only players worth a darn on the team with stupid shit like this. Why would he hang around if they're going to do shit like this to him?

Hopefully next year, things are straighter. But I doubt. Even if Castle is starting next year, it doesn't matter if Keldon and Vassell plays meaningful minutes.


Travesty tbh. I like to believe that Rookie Steph has more maturity than Rookie Wemby and yet he has to get fucked by whatever off-court hoopla the FO got themselves into.

[Extra Stout]

How do you know for sure CP3 will be gone. What is he stays another year? Are they still going to yank Castle around? This organization better wake up. I am starting to see why Kawhi left.
Because Paul only has a one-year contract, and with Fox on the team they don’t need him past this year.

[cutewizard]

If Castle gets let off his leash the Spurs might push .500, which could push them out of the lottery and take away one of their tickets for a Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey. They can’t count on that Atlanta pick because Atlanta is hovering around the play-in. They have to play Vassell and Johnson, and start CP3 to stay down around 30 wins.


------------------------------------------------------------

The soft, subtle tank is on

Yihhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa lol

Hahaha, but all the NBA can see it so.................

[Extra Stout]

Hopefully next year, things are straighter. But I doubt. Even if Castle is starting next year, it doesn't matter if Keldon and Vassell plays meaningful minutes.


Travesty tbh. I like to believe that Rookie Steph has more maturity than Rookie Wemby and yet he has to get fucked by whatever off-court hoopla the FO got themselves into.

This offseason is where the shit gets real. The Spurs have two stars in place and a potential third star. This summer will be the time to acquire two starting-caliber forwards, whether through the draft or through dealing their draft assets. The players they acquire need to be defense-oriented without being liabilities on offense like Sochan.

[Extra Stout]

I don’t know if there are any teams stupid enough to think Johnson is an asset. There might be teams stupid enough to trade for Vassell.

[Rosewood]

I get that they won’t bench CP3, if that was the agreement then they can’t spurn a legend at the end of his career… just not how the Spurs operate. It’s frustrating, but I absolutely understand it.

…. but I think Castle has already earned a spot over Vassell too. Them sticking with Vassell and especially KJ makes me think PATFO are letting those two have the rest of the year to either prove their value for a bench role or an offseason trade. It doesn’t make sense otherwise because Castle looks extremely promising.

[100%duncan]

This offseason is where the shit gets real. The Spurs have two stars in place and a potential third star. This summer will be the time to acquire two starting-caliber forwards, whether through the draft or through dealing their draft assets. The players they acquire need to be defense-oriented without being liabilities on offense like Sochan.

This is the logical expectation. But this team has too many holes to fix. The #1 problem is the coaching. Mitch is just Pop's puppet, nothing is actually going to change when Pop comes back. We need the old man to retire and just enjoy the legacy he has built.

[Extra Stout]

This is the logical expectation. But this team has too many holes to fix. The #1 problem is the coaching. Mitch is just Pop's puppet, nothing is actually going to change when Pop comes back. We need the old man to retire and just enjoy the legacy he has built.
Yes, this is true. It should be straightforward for the ownership to tell Pop that his health comes first, and that while he can come back for a few games in April to go out on his own terms, it is in fact time to go out. But I don’t know that Squirt or his sister have the cojones to do that. They seem cowed.

[baseline bum]

How do you know for sure CP3 will be gone. What is he stays another year? Are they still going to yank Castle around? This organization better wake up. I am starting to see why Kawhi left (he'd always get his numbers leveled off by being benched). What the Spurs do half the time, doesn't make sense.

Kawhi left because he wanted to play in LA. Otherwise if it was just beef with the Spurs he wouldn't have left that Toronto team that was such an amazing fit around him.

[Strategic]

If Paul stays around for another year, then next year’s agreement will be to come off the bench unless he’s needed to start. He can take it or leave it.

[baseline bum]

This is the logical expectation. But this team has too many holes to fix. The #1 problem is the coaching. Mitch is just Pop's puppet, nothing is actually going to change when Pop comes back. We need the old man to retire and just enjoy the legacy he has built.

Who is Plan B if Hurley says no? The guy I have always wanted if Pop was out of the picture was Ty Lue but shit he signed an extension through 2029 last summer. :pctoss

[spursistan]

Who is Plan B if Hurley says no? The guy I have always wanted if Pop was out of the picture was Ty Lue but shit he signed an extension through 2029 last summer. :pctoss
The coaching market is so dry, man. Which established NBA coach is ready to jump if you make a call right now? Terry Stotts (Warriors asst), James Borrego (Pels asst), Frank Vogel and Mike Brown :lol

[baseline bum]

The coaching market is so dry, man. Which established NBA coach is ready to jump if you make a call right now? Terry Stotts (Warriors asst), James Borrego (Pels asst), Frank Vogel and Mike Brown :lol

Was about to say Kenny Atkinson butt fuck, I forgot he went to Cleveland this year. :lol

[100%duncan]

Who is Plan B if Hurley says no? The guy I have always wanted if Pop was out of the picture was Ty Lue but shit he signed an extension through 2029 last summer. :pctoss

Im not that updated on up and coming coaches tbh. There’s no “vet” coach that interests me. Hopefully Castle can sway Hurley tbh esp now that Uconn isnt good :lol

[KobesAchilles]

I haven’t been keeping up with the Suns at all but is KD still a SF or is he better suited as a PF. Either one would be useful but getting him next year would be amazing for the Spurs. He would fit in seamlessly and covers up a lot of our weaknesses. That’s my target next year. Pick up him. Draft the Wolf. Sign Bogdan. Get Sochan on a 12 million a year deal and then trade his ass and Vassell and 2 FRPs for KD . Re-sign CP3 as our back up.

And our team could be:
Fox
Castle
KD
Barnes
Wemby

Bench:
CP3
KJ
Bogdan
The Wolf
random filler

[DAF86]

I haven’t been keeping up with the Suns at all but is KD still a SF or is he better suited as a PF. Either one would be useful but getting him next year would be amazing for the Spurs. He would fit in seamlessly and covers up a lot of our weaknesses. That’s my target next year. Pick up him. Draft the Wolf. Sign Bogdan. Get Sochan on a 12 million a year deal and then trade his ass and Vassell and 2 FRPs for KD . Re-sign CP3 as our back up.

And our team could be:
Fox
Castle
KD
Barnes
Wemby

Bench:
CP3
KJ
Bogdan
The Wolf
random filler

Why would you post a dream scenario that still contains Keldon on the team? :vomit:

[DAF86]

My dream scenario would look something like this:

Starting lineup

Fox
Castle
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
Wemby

Bench

CP3
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
((Insert rim protecting big))

[ismael-robert]

This offseason is where the shit gets real. The Spurs have two stars in place and a potential third star. This summer will be the time to acquire two starting-caliber forwards, whether through the draft or through dealing their draft assets. The players they acquire need to be defense-oriented without being liabilities on offense like Sochan.

Close thread. Common sense ain't so common

[DAF86]

Close thread. Common sense ain't so common

In what World is it common sense to limit the minutes of your rookie of the year candidate with the excuse of "it doesn't matter, he will get his minutes next season". Imagine if we did that to Wemby last season. :lol

[ismael-robert]

In a world where winning isn't the goal

[tbdog]

Spurs defense is poor due to poor rebounding, unable to secure stops. Spurs heavily relying on Wemby to not only defend the paint but clean up on the boards. This is due to personal and since the trade, it has gotten worse. For example, Barnes is just a bad rebounder. He has played PF for a lot of his career and never avg more than 7 rebounds, despite averaging over 30 mins per game. His career numbers is 4.8 rebounds per game at 31mins per game.

Since the trade, I would have assume Fox would have replaced Paul in the starting line-up, but I suppose the Spurs are not happy who's playing the 3. Sochan has beefed up a bit and I have to assume they told him he will be playing big. Barnes is too slow as a dedicated 3. Castle is undersize as the 3 as well. Julian just isn't starting quality.

Playing Vassell is kinda the best choice, but his undersize for that position as well. It was painful watching him trying to defend Franz the other night. But regardless, all the guards are not good defenders and are playing down a position for the most part. No wonder Wemby is just gassed this far in the season.

[DAF86]

In a world where winning isn't the goal

That makes even less sense. The logic behind not giving a rookie more minutes is because you want to win and therefore give veterans more minutes.

If winning isn't the goal, then all the more reason to give your promising rookie more playing time to help him develop for the future.

The kick here is that playing Castle more gives us both, a quicker developing curve for him and a bigger chance to win games.

[timtonymanu]

Castle is gonna be great at least. Hopefully the old man and Mitch won't be anywhere near the bench next season.

The old man shouldn’t be anywhere near here at all. Maybe just one game but the front office would need a serious overhaul if they expect a 75 year old man coming off a stroke to save the season. I can’t believe dumb Reddit fans are expecting him to come back and not miss a beat (like his system hasn’t been outdated for years now).

[ismael-robert]

Castle ain't that type of rook. He's already playing like a vet who will win games

[scott]

Who is Plan B if Hurley says no? The guy I have always wanted if Pop was out of the picture was Ty Lue but shit he signed an extension through 2029 last summer. :pctoss

Any assistants on Taylor Jenkins' staff we can poach? Seems like that the team that always finds a way to compete

[DAF86]

Castle ain't that type of rook. He's already playing like a vet who will win games

Well, all the more reason to play him more. Bro, I gotta be honest with you. After calling for it, you aren't displaying a whole lot of common sense, tbh :lol

[ismael-robert]

I just said we're not trying to win games...if castle equals wins...you dont play him

[DAF86]

I just said we're not trying to win games...if castle equals wins...you dont play him

Under that reasoning, why don't we bench Wemby and Fox too? :lol

C'mon dude, you aren't making any sense. The Spurs are clearly trying to win and get Wemby some playoffs experience. Mitch is just sucking with his rotations right now.

[ismael-robert]

Cause they're not winning

[DAF86]

Cause they're not winning

They just did. You don't play Wemby the entire 4th if you are trying to tank. Also, not winning doesn't mean not wanting to win. They wouldn't have traded for Fox if they didn't want to win. Just accept you are wrong on this one and move on.

[dn0774]

I just said we're not trying to win games...if castle equals wins...you dont play him

The kid has RotY sitting there for the taking but go ahead and tell him why he isn't starting/getting bigger minutes despite clearly earning them these last couple weeks. Maybe end of season awards aren't a big deal to some, but they are to others and it might be to him. Wemby certainly cared about his. Meanwhile, CP3 is probably in his last season and we are trending to not be in the postseason/play-in and yet he still has to start which pushes the next couple guys out of position (and it shows). I appreciate CP3 coming this year, but at this point I hope a buyout happens and he can jump to a contender and ring chase.

[onechance87]

Dumbass coach....First you bench castle.Then you give him less min as well.Looks like our own front office is
trying very hard to stop castle getting roty award for sum reason.

[dn0774]

If the Spurs weren't trying to win Fox would have been shut down on arrival to SA and gotten his pinkie surgery. This is Mitch pushing for wins still as sad as that is to say. Barely escaping DC with a win against a team missing multiple main guys is embarrassing.

[SpursGenius]

This offseason is where the shit gets real. The Spurs have two stars in place and a potential third star. This summer will be the time to acquire two starting-caliber forwards, whether through the draft or through dealing their draft assets. The players they acquire need to be defense-oriented without being liabilities on offense like Sochan.
Dream scenerio Flagg and Baily. But if things go where they are trending I like Rasheer Flemming and Asa Newell just fine.

[SpursGenius]

I haven’t been keeping up with the Suns at all but is KD still a SF or is he better suited as a PF. Either one would be useful but getting him next year would be amazing for the Spurs. He would fit in seamlessly and covers up a lot of our weaknesses. That’s my target next year. Pick up him. Draft the Wolf. Sign Bogdan. Get Sochan on a 12 million a year deal and then trade his ass and Vassell and 2 FRPs for KD . Re-sign CP3 as our back up.

And our team could be:
Fox
Castle
KD
Barnes
Wemby

Bench:
CP3
KJ
Bogdan
The Wolf
random filler
Rather have Vassell over asswipe Keldon. Salaries almost the same

[RC_Drunkford]

the weird thing is that if they are looking at next season to start winning you'd want to play the Fox/Castle back court to see how they mesh and what you need to add around them and Wemby. But instead they play Fox/CP3 and play Castle 19 minutes. So next season you have to figure out the back court pairing for the future after adding pieces in the offseason. Makes zero sense, but Spurs gonna Spurs. We can't hurt CP3s feelings :cry

[Ice009]

Kawhi left because he wanted to play in LA. Otherwise if it was just beef with the Spurs he wouldn't have left that Toronto team that was such an amazing fit around him.

It would have played a part. I know it's not the exact reason he left (LA was a big drawcard), but he and his uncle probably thought he could be a megastar and that SA was holding back his numbers a little bit. Plus them being a small market didn't help. I think it would have played a part.


They just did. You don't play Wemby the entire 4th if you are trying to tank. Also, not winning doesn't mean not wanting to win. They wouldn't have traded for Fox if they didn't want to win. Just accept you are wrong on this one and move on.

Exactly, it's like they don't know the trade deadline is over. There's no need to showcase those other guys anymore. If they want to stay here, the need to prove it with whatever role is left for them. Not give them extra minutes over a better player that has sky high potential compared to them. If they want to see if they can fit, just play them in whatever role/minutes is left.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Who is Plan B if Hurley says no? The guy I have always wanted if Pop was out of the picture was Ty Lue but shit he signed an extension through 2029 last summer. :pctoss





The coaching market is so dry, man. Which established NBA coach is ready to jump if you make a call right now? Terry Stotts (Warriors asst), James Borrego (Pels asst), Frank Vogel and Mike Brown :lol
A couple of long shots here,
but maybe Pop has had quiet talks with Kerr about him taking over after his contract is up in 2026?

Second, if Quinn Snyder gets fired in Atlanta, that might be a candidate.

[tbdog]

Just want to add that Kawhi reached out to a few star players. I think Butler was first, then Paul George. Butler supposedly declined teaming up. So Kawhi said to Clippers and Toronto that he wanted to play with Paul George and whoever trades for PG, he will sign for that team. Hence why OKC got such a huge haul for Paul George. It's pretty amazing that really last year SGA became a stud and yet that trade felt eons ago. Anyway, Toronto and Clippers went on a bidding war and Presti was using that as leverage to get the big haul. The rumour was that Toronto wasn't giving up 5 firsts and Clippers were only giving up 4. So it was possible that both had 4 first on the table. Then Balmer greenlit the 5th pick, the deal was made, and Leonard became a Clipper.

[rankingtear]

He does not have to defend the POA attack as much with the switching lineup off the bench and share usage with Wemby and Fox. He is thriving, this is the best 4 game stretch of his career right now. CP3 is the only one that can feed Wemby right now, Fox and Castle kinda alienates him.

[Raven]

last year we were talking about fox, with the fox champ vassell sochan wemby lineup in mind, so now that he's here, why are we not playing that extremely well balanced lineup? Why do we need to play with 2/3pgs and or with either a center or a pf and almost never both?

[Ice009]

Just want to add that Kawhi reached out to a few star players. I think Butler was first, then Paul George. Butler supposedly declined teaming up. So Kawhi said to Clippers and Toronto that he wanted to play with Paul George and whoever trades for PG, he will sign for that team. Hence why OKC got such a huge haul for Paul George. It's pretty amazing that really last year SGA became a stud and yet that trade felt eons ago. Anyway, Toronto and Clippers went on a bidding war and Presti was using that as leverage to get the big haul. The rumour was that Toronto wasn't giving up 5 firsts and Clippers were only giving up 4. So it was possible that both had 4 first on the table. Then Balmer greenlit the 5th pick, the deal was made, and Leonard became a Clipper.

I now do remember that he told the Raptors to get PG (I forgot some of this until you bought it up), but they wouldn't give up what was required. I didn't know he reached out to Butler to team up, though.

[John B]

I like that Castle is now closing games, primarily for his defense. To be fair, he is already ahead of Keldon in minutes. I like that Mitch played him 30+ minutes when Castle scored the game high. I think the minutes comes from CP3 save his legs the next half of the season. Vassell is a 2 and his minutes go to Champ, who I like defending on situations, but I agree Vassell needs to stand his defensive ground to develop.

For now I am okay with CP3 starting over Castle, as long as Castle gets to close.

[LeBowen]

For now I am okay with CP3 starting over Castle, as long as Castle gets to close.

I'd be okay with it if the starting lineup was functional, but it's not.
It just doesn't work.
Fox has to be the point of attack defender and he's not that great at it, uses way too much energy on defense when we need him to be the offensive engine.
CP0 has to be hidden on defense which usually means he's matched up with a wing and any decent wing can attack him as if he's not there. Not to mention we get murdered on the boards.
Devin is also pushed to wing position and overmatched no matter what, makes our rebounding even worse.
Wemby is left alone to battle against multiple players every single possession and then people start bitching about him not putting enough effort in. Our team doesn't box out at all. And a lot of it is on their physical inability to do so.

-4, -15, -11, +1 is the rebounding differential since Fox got here.
Even the damn Wizards had 10 OREBs, this lineup just can't work, it's not even about hindering Castle's development, but everyone else's.

[Ice009]

I like that Castle is now closing games, primarily for his defense. To be fair, he is already ahead of Keldon in minutes. I like that Mitch played him 30+ minutes when Castle scored the game high. I think the minutes comes from CP3 save his legs the next half of the season. Vassell is a 2 and his minutes go to Champ, who I like defending on situations, but I agree Vassell needs to stand his defensive ground to develop.

For now I am okay with CP3 starting over Castle, as long as Castle gets to close.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Castle's only playing 4-5 minutes in the 4th quarter the past two games. He needs to be playing a minimum of 8 minutes each 4th quarter. I don't like seeing him come in cold at the end of the game and expect him to make big plays. Really, he should be playing 8 minute a quarter, or 8 x 2 and 7 x 2, so 30 minutes total minimum.

[LeBowen]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Castle's only playing 4-5 minutes in the 4th quarter the past two games. He needs to be playing a minimum of 8 minutes each 4th quarter. I don't like seeing him come in cold at the end of the game and expect him to make big plays. Really, he should be playing 8 minute a quarter, or 8 x 2 and 7 x 2, so 30 minutes total minimum.

18/4/3 on 50/41/77 in 8 games since Spurs got back from Paris.
4th quarter minutes:
Clippers: 9:34
Bucks: 4:56 (blowout win)
Heat: 5:04
Grizzlies: 5:09 (blowout loss)
Hawks: 5:54
Hornets: 12:00
Magic: 11:36
Wizards: 5:21

Basically if he's not taking the game over and playing too good to be taken out, he'll sit and make way for players who are more familiar with Spurs culture.

[Extra Stout]

There is no good reason not to play Castle 32 to 36 minutes. Those would come at the expense of Vassell and Johnson.

[The Truth #6]

Mitch has already basically said that he talks to Pop after every game, so I'm assuming a lot of these big decisions, like how much Chris Paul is going to play or not, or if he's going to start or not, it's not really up to Mitch. That's not fair to Mitch or the team, but that's the weird middle ground we're in right now. I can only assume there was a conversation about this at the trade deadline and Chris wanted to stay as long as he could keep playing, but that's just me guessing.

[ginobilized]

Why wouldn't the Spurs want Castle to get ROY? It's like they are messing with him.
Maybe they are shortening his minutes as a pre-All Star Weekend precaution? Is he making worse mistakes than other players?
This is not making much sense.

I will say that Castle seems to handle the adversity well and has responded well to coming off the bench. Just doesn't feel right that he's out playing Champagnie (where's he been lately?)KJ and even CP3 much of the time. Oh, come to think of it, Vassell, too.

If he's part of our future don't mess with him!!!!

[Ice009]

18/4/3 on 50/41/77 in 8 games since Spurs got back from Paris.
4th quarter minutes:
Clippers: 9:34
Bucks: 4:56 (blowout win)
Heat: 5:04
Grizzlies: 5:09 (blowout loss)
Hawks: 5:54
Hornets: 12:00
Magic: 11:36
Wizards: 5:21

Basically if he's not taking the game over and playing too good to be taken out, he'll sit and make way for players who are more familiar with Spurs culture.

Thanks. I wanted to check myself, but I am not sure where to get those stats from? Where do I go to find them myself?

I thought some of those games he was playing less than half the 4th quarter. Thanks for confirming what I was seeing. The games the team is struggling badly and he was taking over seem to be the ones he got the bigger 4th quarter minutes in, especially when everyone else is struggling and he's carrying them. That sucks.

This Chris Paul thing is starting to backfire with the Fox trade :(. I'm not liking what is going on at all. Castle seems to be getting squeezed out minutes for no good/valid reason at all.

[onechance87]

Thanks. I wanted to check myself, but I am not sure where to get those stats from? Where do I go to find them myself?

I thought some of those games he was playing less than half the 4th quarter. Thanks for confirming what I was seeing. The games the team is struggling badly and he was taking over seem to be the ones he got the minutes in. That sucks. They seem to be giving him those bigger 4th quarter minutes if they're struggling and need him to carry them. This Chris Paul thing is starting to backfire with the Fox trade :(. I'm not liking what is going on at all.

is gonna backfire for sure when we face bostons giant lineup next.

[LeBowen]

Thanks. I wanted to check myself, but I am not sure where to get those stats from? Where do I go to find them myself?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/


is gonna backfire for sure when we face bostons giant lineup next.

It's already backfired every single game, who knows if we would've beaten Wizards if not for Wemby's barrage of 3s that gave us the early lead.
Current starting lineup is intentional sabotage by whoever makes the decision.

[RC_Drunkford]

the funny thing is not only is Mitch starting Fox and CP3 together, but he's also playing Castle as the lone PG out there instead of having one of them on the floor at all times. That results in more minutes of them playing together :lol

[exstatic]

I get that they won’t bench CP3, if that was the agreement then they can’t spurn a legend at the end of his career… just not how the Spurs operate. It’s frustrating, but I absolutely understand it.

…. but I think Castle has already earned a spot over Vassell too. Them sticking with Vassell and especially KJ makes me think PATFO are letting those two have the rest of the year to either prove their value for a bench role or an offseason trade. It doesn’t make sense otherwise because Castle looks extremely promising.

Keldon hasn’t played 20 minutes since the beginning of the month. He looks to be slotted into the Tre Jones 15 mpg niche. He played 11 minutes last game, and frankly, we need his shooting most nights. Vassell has clearly turned a corner in his starting role, playing more like he did off the bench. Be glad Pop isn’t here and Stephon isn’t in Austin.

[Mugen]

Keldon hasn’t played 20 minutes since the beginning of the month. He looks to be slotted into the Tre Jones 15 mpg niche. He played 11 minutes last game, and frankly, we need his shooting most nights. Vassell has clearly turned a corner in his starting role, playing more like he did off the bench. Be glad Pop isn’t here and Stephon isn’t in Austin.

:lol Keldon is shooting 30% from 3 for the season.

I think Vassell needs to stay in the SL but not because he's "turned a corner," he's still been inconsistent as hell. He needs to stay in there so we can see how he looks next to Fox and Wemby so we can decide on whether or not to ship him out this offseason.

[exstatic]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/



It's already backfired every single game, who knows if we would've beaten Wizards if not for Wemby's barrage of 3s that gave us the early lead.
Current starting lineup is intentional sabotage by whoever makes the decision.

It’s not the starting lineups, it’s the closing lineup. The difference in the Wizards game was that Wemby got his rest break earlier in the 4th, and played the last 7 minutes uninterrupted. We dropped down into a tie earlier than usual in the 4th, but had more time to recover. There was also a 4-5 minute stretch where no one shot except Wemby and Fox, which is exactly what should happen. We won breaking away.

[Mugen]

the funny thing is not only is Mitch starting Fox and CP3 together, but he's also playing Castle as the lone PG out there instead of having one of them on the floor at all times. That results in more minutes of them playing together :lol

This. It's insane that he's not staggering Fox/CP3 with Castle more.

[exstatic]

:lol Keldon is shooting 30% from 3 for the season.

I think Vassell needs to stay in the SL but not because he's "turned a corner," he's still been inconsistent as hell. He needs to stay in there so we can see how he looks next to Fox and Wemby so we can decide on whether or not to ship him out this offseason.

Which is better than Castle, or Fox as a Spur.

Devin has shot 41% on 27 shots spread over 4 games since Fox arrived and he no longer needs to create his own 3s, so yeah, he’s turned a fucking corner.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:lol knew Chris Paul wouldn’t come off the bench due to ego. People said :cry but he came off the bench last year :cry . spurs don’t have Steph Curry and championship pedigree.

[Mugen]

Which is better than Castle, or Fox as a Spur.

Devin has shot 41% on 27 shots spread over 4 games since Fox arrived and he no longer needs to create his own 3s, so yeah, he’s turned a fucking corner.

Mamu is shooting 40% from 3 this season on 50+ attempts so why not him instead of Keldon? That's almost double Devin's sample size in the Fox games so we should be able to say he's turned a corner as well right?

[exstatic]

Mamu is shooting 40% from 3 this season on 50+ attempts so why not him instead of Keldon? That's almost double Devin's sample size in the Fox games so we should be able to say he's turned a corner as well right?

52 attempts in 42 games isn’t a sample size, it’s a rounding error. It’s not the same as Vassells nearly 7 per game since Fox got here. That being said, Mamu has been playing more recently, he’s just not a guard, and not interchangeable with the players we’ve been discussing. Do better.

[Mugen]

52 attempts in 42 games isn’t a sample size, it’s a rounding error. It’s not the same as Vassells nearly 7 per game since Fox got here. That being said, Mamu has been playing more recently, he’s just not a guard, and not interchangeable with the players we’ve been discussing. Do better.

Just absolutely preposterous that we "need Keldon out there for his shooting" and "Devin has turned a corner based on 4 games." You're better than that. :lol

[NASpurs]

Which is better than Castle, or Fox as a Spur.

Devin has shot 41% on 27 shots spread over 4 games since Fox arrived and he no longer needs to create his own 3s, so yeah, he’s turned a fucking corner.


:lmao :lmao :lmao

[LeBowen]

Reading this topic and thinking about optimal rotations, I feel like a lot of these random combinations are throwing players off and it's not like most of them have high basketball IQ.
They just get lost in all the random shit Mitch throws out.

Ideal rotation would be way simpler. No chance of it happening, but still.

Point guard: Fox/CP3 - Mutually exclusive on the floor. One is always out there, never together.
Point of attack defender: Castle/Jeremy - One is always on the floor. Mutually exclusive when Wemby is playing, can play together when Jeremy is playing as a backup big.
Center: Wemby/backup - This is obviously the biggest issue, I guess Jeremy will have to do, but we really fucked up by not getting a serious backup.
Shooters: Devin/Champ/Barnes - Any combination works, at least two should be on the floor at all times.

240 minutes available.
Wemby 33
Jeremy (backup C) 15
Fox 32
CP3 16
Castle 32
Jeremy (POA defender) 16
Devin/Champ/Barnes have 96 minutes available, adjust accordingly depending who has the hot hand, throw in some pity mintues for Keldon or Mamu if needed.

Would this be so hard to do?
Tbh, I wish we kept Tre instead of CP3, he'd be fine for those backup PG minutes.

[Mugen]

Saying the Spurs need Keldon out there for shooting is like me saying I need a kidney stone to pee better tbh.

[MannyIsGod]

At this point with the play in basically slipping away after a month plus of pretty shit play, there's probably reason for the rest of the season to be experimental. Spurs should learn what they can about this collection of dudes I guess, but long term the truth is half of them have to go. The defense the Spurs run is just not it, there's no way a team with Wemby and Castle and Sochan should be this bad at defense. Like I don't expect them to be Boston but the current level of defense is abysmal night in and night out against the worst inthe league. I don't know how you could look at those results and not immediately scrap the current system.

Spurs desprately need a break from Pop's coaching style. I don't think coaches matter all that much but right now they are taking what should be our biggest strength and turning it into a huge weakness. It's incredible how bad we are defensively and I can't even blame the players at this point.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

At this point with the play in basically slipping away after a month plus of pretty shit play, there's probably reason for the rest of the season to be experimental. Spurs should learn what they can about this collection of dudes I guess, but long term the truth is half of them have to go. The defense the Spurs run is just not it, there's no way a team with Wemby and Castle and Sochan should be this bad at defense. Like I don't expect them to be Boston but the current level of defense is abysmal night in and night out against the worst inthe league. I don't know how you could look at those results and not immediately scrap the current system.

Spurs desprately need a break from Pop's coaching style. I don't think coaches matter all that much but right now they are taking what should be our biggest strength and turning it into a huge weakness. It's incredible how bad we are defensively and I can't even blame the players at this point.

Preach Manny.

Pop and his sycophantic coaching staff still think it's 2007 and they just need to protect the paint at all costs (even with Wemby in there), while every other team is running plays, setting screens, etc. to get their shooters open threes. It's idiotic.

[Chomag]

Vessal and Sochan BB IQ is that of a rock. I know people are high on Jeremy but he just does to many boneheaded things to play consistent at a high level wining basketball.

He's a good player to have as a high energy and effort player coming off the bench to stirr things yp but you won't get very far if you try to make him an important part to the main team makeup.

[Gagnrath]

Vessal and Sochan BB IQ is that of a rock. I know people are high on Jeremy but he just does to many boneheaded things to play consistent at a high level wining basketball.

He's a good player to have as a high energy and effort player coming off the bench to stirr things yp but you won't get very far if you try to make him an important part to the main team makeup.
I agree on the Vassel part but now that he's being fed spot up shots off a collapsing defense it looks alot better for him. Sochan I disagree, I actually see him over thinking things and not flowing. I think not having a set role/position is causing part of the issue. Give the guy a somewhat consistent role and it'll help a lot.

[rjv]

typical ST. just last week, half this place had no problem with shipping castle off for Fox.

[KobesAchilles]

Rather have Vassell over asswipe Keldon. Salaries almost the same
In my hypothetical make believe fantasy NBA, the Suns don’t want KJ at all and only agree to trade KD for Sochan, Vassell and 2 FRPs :lol

[rjv]

I agree on the Vassel part but now that he's being fed spot up shots off a collapsing defense it looks alot better for him. Sochan I disagree, I actually see him over thinking things and not flowing. I think not having a set role/position is causing part of the issue. Give the guy a somewhat consistent role and it'll help a lot.

yeah, he's like a basketball midfielder right now.

[scott]

Just absolutely preposterous that we "need Keldon out there for his shooting" and "Devin has turned a corner based on 4 games." You're better than that. :lol

In this 4 game sample, Vassell has gone 2-8 from 3 twice, and the other two games went 4-7 and 3-4. "Turned the corner" :lol

[exstatic]

In this 4 game sample, Vassell has gone 2-8 from 3 twice, and the other two games went 4-7 and 3-4. "Turned the corner" :lol

The numbers and percentage I quoted were accurate for the four game set. No one is dead consistent game over game. LDN was a 40% 3 ball shooter, and I used to joke that he alternated games of4-5 with games of0-5.

[scott]

The numbers and percentage I quoted were accurate for the four game set. No one is dead consistent game over game. LDN was a 40% 3 ball shooter, and I used to joke that he alternated games of4-5 with games of0-5.

I'm excited for the looks Devin has been getting since Fox came on board. Let's give it a little more time before saying things like "he's turned the corner"

Likewise, let's not read too much into Jeremy making 4 of 6 3PA over the last 5 games.

[dbestpro]

Less Vassell more Castle for the playin. If we are not going to make the playin then lots of Vassell to raise his trade value.

[tonight...you]

In my hypothetical make believe fantasy NBA, the Suns don’t want KJ at all and only agree to trade KD for Sochan, Vassell and 2 FRPs :lol
Lol. I dig it.

[Brazil]

I know this is not cool or trendy but Spurs just added a very significant piece to the puzzle, finding the right rotation takes time especially when you have an abundance of depth guards and lack of depth for pretty much everything else. It is what it is tho Spurs had a plan you get 2 vets to help the young grow and in particular CP3 with Castle then you get Fox pretty much out of nowhere half season. That's a complex equation for a variety of reasons.

Fact is more often than not, you bench Victor and here goes opponent run, that's frustrating as hell. You have no center back up, so you play 38 minutes with a 7'5 center and the rest of the time with no center at all

[scott]

I know this is not cool or trendy but Spurs just added a very significant piece to the puzzle, finding the right rotation takes time especially when you have an abundance of depth guards and lack of depth for pretty much everything else. It is what it is tho Spurs had a plan you get 2 vets to help the young grow and in particular CP3 with Castle then you get Fox pretty much out of nowhere half season. That's a complex equation for a variety of reasons.

Fact is more often than not, you bench Victor and here goes opponent run, that's frustrating as hell. You have no center back up, so you play 38 minutes with a 7'5 center and the rest of the time with no center at all

Absolutely, and thanks for raising this.

While I see some value in shutting Fox down and getting the surgery done if the play-in starts to slip away (especially if it means more ping pong balls), I think there is equal value in just getting maximum minutes of the guys we think are going to be here long term (Fox, Castle, Wemby for sure, Vassell and Sochan most likely) playing TOGETHER. That doesn't mean they all need to play at the same time in one lineup, but I want to see over a long stretch how Devin plays with Fox caving in the defense. I want to see how Castle and Fox fit together. I want to see Fox and Wemby develop chemistry, etc.

I'm curious what the recovery time for Fox's surgery realistically looks like. If it's something that can get done in May and he's ready to go by August either way... then there is no need to rush it. Then it just becomes a matter of how much you have to gain by soft tanking to close the season (my guess is that there probably won't be much).

[Knoxxx]

Reading this topic and thinking about optimal rotations, I feel like a lot of these random combinations are throwing players off and it's not like most of them have high basketball IQ.
They just get lost in all the random shit Mitch throws out.

Ideal rotation would be way simpler. No chance of it happening, but still.

Point guard: Fox/CP3 - Mutually exclusive on the floor. One is always out there, never together.
Point of attack defender: Castle/Jeremy - One is always on the floor. Mutually exclusive when Wemby is playing, can play together when Jeremy is playing as a backup big.
Center: Wemby/backup - This is obviously the biggest issue, I guess Jeremy will have to do, but we really fucked up by not getting a serious backup.
Shooters: Devin/Champ/Barnes - Any combination works, at least two should be on the floor at all times.

240 minutes available.
Wemby 33
Jeremy (backup C) 15
Fox 32
CP3 16
Castle 32
Jeremy (POA defender) 16
Devin/Champ/Barnes have 96 minutes available, adjust accordingly depending who has the hot hand, throw in some pity mintues for Keldon or Mamu if needed.

Would this be so hard to do?
Tbh, I wish we kept Tre instead of CP3, he'd be fine for those backup PG minutes.

You could have just typed reduce CP3 minutes to 16 minutes off the bench and saved yourself some typing. Everything pretty much just falls into place from there. KJ is not to be benched - 1) harms his trade value, 2) if that’s a winning move to bench him it costs us lottery balls and gains nothing.

Now I am not trying to defend KJ by any means, but they said on the broadcast he was 5th in the league in bench points.

[T Park]

You’re not gonna reduce Paul’s minutes cause you promised him big minutes in the off season.

[spurraider21]

You’re not gonna reduce Paul’s minutes cause you promised him big minutes in the off season.
promised him 11 million big things

[John B]

You’re not gonna reduce Paul’s minutes cause you promised him big minutes in the off season.

I think we’ll see a reduced (managed) minutes in the 2nd half to prolong CP3 body, especially if they have plans of getting into play-in and beyond.

[RC_Drunkford]

Absolutely, and thanks for raising this.

While I see some value in shutting Fox down and getting the surgery done if the play-in starts to slip away (especially if it means more ping pong balls), I think there is equal value in just getting maximum minutes of the guys we think are going to be here long term (Fox, Castle, Wemby for sure, Vassell and Sochan most likely) playing TOGETHER. That doesn't mean they all need to play at the same time in one lineup, but I want to see over a long stretch how Devin plays with Fox caving in the defense. I want to see how Castle and Fox fit together. I want to see Fox and Wemby develop chemistry, etc.

I'm curious what the recovery time for Fox's surgery realistically looks like. If it's something that can get done in May and he's ready to go by August either way... then there is no need to rush it. Then it just becomes a matter of how much you have to gain by soft tanking to close the season (my guess is that there probably won't be much).

:pop: "I want to see CP3 and Fox together"

[spursparker9]

:lol

I get a feeling that it was Pop, Castle would get even lesser min.

Pop would play Malakai and Wesley over Castle :lol

[SpursBig3s]

My dream scenario would look something like this:

Starting lineup

Fox
Castle
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
Wemby

Bench

CP3
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
((Insert rim protecting big))


this x1000... Cam Johnson and PJ Washington would be awesome for those forward slots

[Darkwaters]

My dream scenario would look something like this:

Starting lineup

Fox
Castle
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
Wemby

Bench

CP3
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
((Insert rim protecting big))

But where does Malaki Branham fit?

[sfernald]

My dream scenario would look something like this:

Starting lineup

Fox
Castle
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
Wemby

Bench

CP3
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
((Insert rim protecting big))

my dream lineup would be:

fox
castle
cam Johnson
cooper flagg
wemby

i think we might win a championship with that team.

we just need a little luck again in the lottery and the cam trade should be doable with our assets!

[Ice009]

:lol

I get a feeling that it was Pop, Castle would get even lesser min.

Pop would play Malakai and Wesley over Castle :lol

Sadly you might be right. Maybe it's better that Pop isn't coaching him right now.

[MannyIsGod]

Does anyone actually even know what if any promises were made to CP3? Because to me it just reads like making excuses for this coaching staff making stupid lineup decisions and after years of this nonsense I think we all know they just make stupid decisions and we don't need to invent promises out of thin air in order to give them cover for that. Chris Paul has utility both as a player and as a mentor to our youth but a lot of that is eroded if the only reason he's starting is because of a fucking promise. More than likely Mitch is just scared or dumb. Take your pick.

[Strategic]

Prolly lucky that Jones was traded away or he would be some of Castles’ minutes.

[spurraider21]

:wow

1889864941697638576

[onechance87]

:wow

1889864941697638576

U dont need the break to see whats wrong with this lineup.Bench cp3 for castle.Also bench vassell for champ.
Guy dont deserve to be starting.

[Manu-of-steel]

U dont need the break to see whats wrong with this lineup.Bench cp3 for castle.Also bench vassell for champ.
Guy dont deserve to be starting.

Agree with this!

[scott]

:wow

1889864941697638576

This season has been full of a lot of pleasant surprises...

We actually traded for Fox... we actually got rid of Collins... if would actually make the obvious lineup adjustments (even if 5 games too late) it would be rather amazing.

[LeBowen]

Castle might replace Devin, CP0 isn't going anywhere.

[Extra Stout]

Minutes should be:
Fox 36
Castle 36
Paul 32
Wemby 36
Barnes 36
Sochan 24
Champagnie 28
Bassey 12
Vassell 0
Johnson 0

[emanueldavidginobili]

1889868426744885281

[CGD]

1889868426744885281

Pretty much. CP3 tank commander tbqh

[SequSpur]

I agree, he should be playing 40’minutes

[NASpurs]

:wow

1889864941697638576

Evaluate lineups to see which one guarantees a lottery pick. I fully expect the only change is Keldon to start over Barnes.

Imagine being so stupid and blind that you need to evaluate for a week instead of what a simple eye test tells you.

[spurraider21]

1889868426744885281
i agree the lineups are a joke

i think "quiet tank" is giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt, that they are intentionally making a mistake.

[Ice009]

1889868426744885281

This is what the local SA media should be saying. I don't know why they never call out the team.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is what the local SA media should be saying. I don't know why they never call out the team.

that's San Antonio media for you :lol



It’s that substance the Spurs crave. They love the young players in their organization. Among those young players who’ve been around the longest, they have guys who’ve worked hard to set positive examples, and who try to say the right things.

But those around the team say they don’t yet have anyone who speaks with the authority – with the substance – that Paul does. A young team needs that.

So why not indulge the old fella? Walking and talking Monday night in Washington, Paul explains that he always thought he could play off the ball, next to another point guard. He’s excited about that chance now.

“Just to be honest with you, I can really shoot the ball,” Paul says. “It’s a role I’ve wanted for a while now.”

And if the Spurs keep giving him that chance? It’s not because they’re doing him a favor.

By keeping him happy, and keeping him talking, they’re doing themselves one.

1889421294283985028

[Ice009]

Geez, I wonder if CP3 said that to keep his starting spot? He's a really good shooter and can play off the ball? I could be wrong, but that sounds like someone who doesn't want to lose their starting spot.

[weeks]

i mean, if they have a handshake agreement with paul there's a zero percent chance they move him to the bench. i'd love to be wrong but i get why they would feel obligated to honor that, it's just how they do business in SA - for better or worse

[Dejounte]

:lmao i told y’all Paul’s number one goal is to play a lot of minutes and not chase rings with contending teams but naahhh “he’s leaving for by the trade deadline for sure”

[exstatic]

i mean, if they have a handshake agreement with paul there's a zero percent chance they move him to the bench. i'd love to be wrong but i get why they would feel obligated to honor that, it's just how they do business in SA - for better or worse

Very rarely does it work out worse. This business model got us draft picks and stuff in two Demar DeRozan trades where he wasn’t signed to play for us.

[venitian navigator]

I Hope the agreement Is tò start him this season and let him run the second unit next season...
Imho for the style of game Vassell works Better with Fox and Paul works well with Castle. This could be the idea for next season too...next year we are probably try tò add via trade or draft more wings and big men...

[Strategic]

This season has been full of a lot of pleasant surprises...

We actually traded for Fox... we actually got rid of Collins... if would actually make the obvious lineup adjustments (even if 5 games too late) it would be rather amazing. There have been some positives and as far as raw talent I’m ok with most of the roster. My let downs come from a general lack of BB fundamentals. I guess today’s NBA isn’t so reliant on basics. Although there are different conclusions as to why the Spurs were handled by the Celtics, rebounding really sticks out to me. Spurs had 2 guys with more than 2 boards while the Celtics had 7 dudes with more than 2. Add this to the amount of points the Spurs were out scored behind the arc and nothing makes sense. Even with what looks like zero effort put into offensive plays, I think the team scores enough points. I once heard a coach say that anybody can play defense. I don’t think there’s any coaching going on here. It almost looks like a more subtle tank. That’s my take, but be warned, my views are usually wrong.

[J_Paco]

Mitch is showing why he isn't a legitimate head coach candidate after a nice honeymoon period. His lineup choices and rotations have been absolute dogshit and aren't making much sense. He's too concerned with 'not hurting feelings' and seemingly can't - or won't - make hard decisions (like not starting CP3, Devin and Harrison together anymore).

Castle was struggling more than people want to admit to start, but he's adjusted to the athleticism and talent of NBA athletes. He needs to start alongside Jeremy, Victor, De'Aaron and either Harrison or Julian.

Unfortunately, I doubt Mitch has the guts or 'pull' to make that needed change. So, more losses are going to continue to pile up as the team defense falters more and more.

[J_Paco]

I Hope the agreement Is tò start him this season and let him run the second unit next season...
Imho for the style of game Vassell works Better with Fox and Paul works well with Castle. This could be the idea for next season too...next year we are probably try tò add via trade or draft more wings and big men...

Why not move Devin to a 6th man role to see if he can take to it, now?

He is struggling, looking bad as a third option in the starting lineup and it isn't helping that he also is forced to play SF. Castle is bigger, has a longer wingspan and has the strength to at least defend SF's better than Devin.

[spurraider21]

Why not move Devin to a 6th man role to see if he can take to it, now?

He is struggling, looking bad as a third option in the starting lineup and it isn't helping that he also is forced to play SF. Castle is bigger, has a longer wingspan and has the strength to at least defend SF's better than Devin.
i still think just due to his contract/age, as painful as it is, think devin has to be given a long leash down the stretch to try and figure things out with the starting unit. but seeing as how paul has no future with the team, the commitment to him makes less sense. just swap him with castle in the starting unit. that gives multiple playmaking guards who are drive threats setting up vassell

but yeah, if i was trying to maximize play-in chances, i'd bench devin at this point too in favor of champagnie who gives a little more size and knows how to play that role better

Fox - Castle - Champagnie - Barnes - Wemby

Paul - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Bassey

[scott]

i still think just due to his contract/age, as painful as it is, think devin has to be given a long leash down the stretch to try and figure things out with the starting unit. but seeing as how paul has no future with the team, the commitment to him makes less sense. just swap him with castle in the starting unit. that gives multiple playmaking guards who are drive threats setting up vassell

but yeah, if i was trying to maximize play-in chances, i'd bench devin at this point too in favor of champagnie who gives a little more size and knows how to play that role better

Fox - Castle - Champagnie - Barnes - Wemby

Paul - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Bassey

This solution seems so apparently obvious that it's rather painful to watch the team go out of its way to avoid it. It's like watching an old person use a computer... JUST HIT CONTROL+C TO COPY YOU FUCKING DINOSAUR!!!

[Joseph Kony]

Someone upstairs also needs to tell the coaching staff that they need to actually coach and develop victor instead of letting him be a soft wuss out there chucking 10 threes a game while getting bodied by smaller players night in and night out

[J_Paco]

Someone upstairs also needs to tell the coaching staff that they need to actually coach and develop victor instead of letting him be a soft wuss out there chucking 10 threes a game while getting bodied by smaller players night in and night out

He needs to get with a developmental coach and work on operating out of the high post and elbow areas. Getting stronger and less reliant on chucking three's is gonna just have to come with time.

Growing pains of him being so tall and skinny, so he can't 'impose his will' like other past big men.

[TD 21]

Why not move Devin to a 6th man role to see if he can take to it, now?

He is struggling, looking bad as a third option in the starting lineup and it isn't helping that he also is forced to play SF. Castle is bigger, has a longer wingspan and has the strength to at least defend SF's better than Devin.

Given his limited creation abilities, he's not even really suited for that.

Castle is stronger, but they're the same height and Vassell is slightly longer.

[exstatic]

He needs to get with a developmental coach and work on operating out of the high post and elbow areas. Getting stronger and less reliant on chucking three's is gonna just have to come with time.

Growing pains of him being so tall and skinny, so he can't 'impose his will' like other past big men.

With him shooting 36%, I’d rather him take 3s than elbow 2s. That’s an inefficient scoring shot. Just from a comparison standpoint, you have to hit an ungodly 54% just to equal the scoring punch of the 3 ball, and the elbow 2 doesn’t space the floor.

[objective]

Re: coaching in general

The February 11 episode of the CHGO Bulls podcast had Will Perdue talking about how when Pop fired Bob Hill he told the team the losing was one thing, but the way they played and the lack of effort was unacceptable. Pop announced he was stripping the playbook to 5 plays, & when they got those right he would add another play, and eventually a 7th. But the effort and desire had to be there period.

This team needs that kind of coaching and end of bench players who are hungry. Every damn game loose balls fall in between a bunch of Spurs who don't grab it. Every game no one sacrifices their body for a charge, hustling to even be in position.

The only guy playing his ass off without bone headed plays is Castle and Wemby pre-Paris.

Mitch ain't about that life.

[Ice009]

Re: coaching in general

The February 11 episode of the CHGO Bulls podcast had Will Perdue talking about how when Pop fired Bob Hill he told the team the losing was one thing, but the way they played and the lack of effort was unacceptable. Pop announced he was stripping the playbook to 5 plays, & when they got those right he would add another play, and eventually a 7th. But the effort and desire had to be there period.

This team needs that kind of coaching and end of bench players who are hungry. Every damn game loose balls fall in between a bunch of Spurs who don't grab it. Every game no one sacrifices their body for a charge, hustling to even be in position.

The only guy playing his ass off without bone headed plays is Castle and Wemby pre-Paris.

Mitch ain't about that life.

Neither is Pop before he went on medical leave, though. I used to love his coaching back in the day. I was really young back then, but I remember that 96/97 team playing really hard. I actually like that team. Then when we got TD, I remember the Spurs never used to tolerate guys that shriveled up in the playoffs. Guys like Hedo that crapped the bed in the playoffs, they were usually never brought back. Also, I remember a big thing being that if you didn't play defense, you don't play at all. Now, up until Pop had to go out on medical leave (I hope he's alright and recovering well), and also after Mitch took over, they're just letting players do whatever. They're not holding anyone accountable for anything anymore and handing out minutes to guys that don't hustle, don't rebound, don't play defense. I don't understand how the philosophy has changed so much.

[z0sa]

I think it's time we played some normal size lineups, with Castle having 28-30 minutes a game.

Fox / Castle (or Vassell or Champ, I guess) / Barnes / Sochan / Wemby would be ideal. Mamu should get playing time every single game if Bassey isn't back. If Bassey is back, he should be in and probably, Mamu too.

I'd rather give up layups and see hustle on rebounding than these ultra small lineups that can't even shoot. That was the essence of Nellie-ball, anyway - having a team that could stretch your bigs out, get out and run every single possession, etc. It was a give and tank with the rebounding, but there's no give and take here - Sochan and 4 wings don't do that.

[scott]

I think it's time we played some normal size lineups, with Castle having 28-30 minutes a game.

Fox / Castle (or Vassell or Champ, I guess) / Barnes / Sochan / Wemby would be ideal. Mamu should get playing time every single game if Bassey isn't back. If Bassey is back, he should be in and probably, Mamu too.

I'd rather give up layups and see hustle on rebounding than these ultra small lineups that can't even shoot. That was the essence of Nellie-ball, anyway - having a team that could stretch your bigs out, get out and run every single possession, etc. It was a give and tank with the rebounding, but there's no give and take here - Sochan and 4 wings don't do that.

If we want to win games, I think the best lineup is:

Fox/CP3
Castle/Vassell
Champ/Keldon
Barnes/Sochan
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu (situational)

If we want to prioritize future development, then I think you go with:

Fox/CP3
Castle/Champ
Vassell/Keldon
Sochan/Barnes
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu

I definitely think option 1 is better than option 2 in terms of Wins and Losses to close out the year. But Option 2 gives you a better look at whether Vassell and Sochan can fit with the new Big 3. Option 1 might give you a better look at how that new Big 3 fit together though, since they won't be overcoming the awkward fit of cramming Vassell and Sochan in there.

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't Castle play with neither Paul nor Fox against the Celtics most of the night?

I like that for now.

[spurraider21]

Didn't Castle play with neither Paul nor Fox against the Celtics most of the night?

I like that for now.
he should play with Fox, since thats presumptively the backcourt of the future. this is the time for them to develop chemistry, learn to play off one another, etc

[ismael-robert]

Daf still clinging to barely beating worst team in league

[ChumpDumper]

he should play with Fox, since thats presumptively the backcourt of the future. this is the time for them to develop chemistry, learn to play off one another, etcEh, that's not as important as Fox/Wemby at this point.

Who knows who they'll draft?

[DAF86]

Daf still clinging to barely beating worst team in league

Dude, you are ain't making any sense. Just stop, tbh. :lol

[spurraider21]

Eh, that's not as important as Fox/Wemby at this point.
are we playing doubles tennis or something?

[SpursGenius]

i still think just due to his contract/age, as painful as it is, think devin has to be given a long leash down the stretch to try and figure things out with the starting unit. but seeing as how paul has no future with the team, the commitment to him makes less sense. just swap him with castle in the starting unit. that gives multiple playmaking guards who are drive threats setting up vassell

but yeah, if i was trying to maximize play-in chances, i'd bench devin at this point too in favor of champagnie who gives a little more size and knows how to play that role better

Fox - Castle - Champagnie - Barnes - Wemby

Paul - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Bassey
This guy always posts the perfect stuff. When spurraider talks you all better listen. Dude should be the coach.

Maybe replace Champ with Sochan in SL only suggestion or atleast try him

[baseline bum]

i still think just due to his contract/age, as painful as it is, think devin has to be given a long leash down the stretch to try and figure things out with the starting unit. but seeing as how paul has no future with the team, the commitment to him makes less sense. just swap him with castle in the starting unit. that gives multiple playmaking guards who are drive threats setting up vassell

but yeah, if i was trying to maximize play-in chances, i'd bench devin at this point too in favor of champagnie who gives a little more size and knows how to play that role better

Fox - Castle - Champagnie - Barnes - Wemby

Paul - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Bassey

If they promised CP3 a starting spot they can't renege and it's almost certain they did.

[ChumpDumper]

are we playing doubles tennis or something?Nope. Having Castle NOT share point guard duties is great for now IMO.

[cutewizard]

My dream scenario would look something like this:

Starting lineup

Fox
Castle
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
((Insert 6'8" 3 and D guy))
Wemby

Bench

CP3
Vassell
Sochan
Barnes
((Insert rim protecting big))


....................

Agree

A very logical structure

Hope we get players to fill up the forward and back up center archetypes

[cutewizard]

PS

But say

6'8 and above height for the forwards

Couple of 6'9 or 6'10s

[SpursGenius]

I think it's time we played some normal size lineups, with Castle having 28-30 minutes a game.

Fox / Castle (or Vassell or Champ, I guess) / Barnes / Sochan / Wemby would be ideal. Mamu should get playing time every single game if Bassey isn't back. If Bassey is back, he should be in and probably, Mamu too.

I'd rather give up layups and see hustle on rebounding than these ultra small lineups that can't even shoot. That was the essence of Nellie-ball, anyway - having a team that could stretch your bigs out, get out and run every single possession, etc. It was a give and tank with the rebounding, but there's no give and take here - Sochan and 4 wings don't do that.

this bottom line play Castle more. Play Mamu and Bassey more. Cut Keldon. sux ass

[Ice009]

Nope. Having Castle NOT share point guard duties is great for now IMO.

Can I ask why? Are you wanting to see how Victor and Fox mesh for the majority of the games?

[ChumpDumper]

Can I ask why? Are you wanting to see how Victor and Fox mesh for the majority of the games?

Until Fox gets shut down, yeah.

As long as the Spurs are honoring this deal with Paul, we can't be expecting to like, win or anything.

[spurraider21]

If they promised CP3 a starting spot they can't renege and it's almost certain they did.
https://media.tenor.com/Yq40P26G2ZkAAAAM/fuckthat-fuckallthat.gif

[NASpurs]

Going back to Mitch, the only thing he's done correctly was to send Zollins, Branham and to a much lesser degree Wesley (I still think he can be useful) to the Shadow Realm. Keldon should be flexing and waving that towel from the end of the bench to finish the season and trading his ass along with Vassell in the summer.

[baseline bum]

https://media.tenor.com/Yq40P26G2ZkAAAAM/fuckthat-fuckallthat.gif

You think breaking a promise to Chris Paul won't get around to every other player in the league? Dude was president of the NBAPA until a couple of years ago.

[scott]

You think breaking a promise to Chris Paul won't get around to every other player in the league? Dude was president of the NBAPA until a couple of years ago.

This is an interesting question that I think deserves a little more debate.

On one hand, you made a promise to a guy who likely knows just about everyone else in the league... but probably 75% of all those guys he knows hate him. Spurs can't afford to be a team with reputation that it doesn't live up to their word, but circumstances have changed to the point that it's clear to pretty much everyone who's ever watched more than 10 minutes of basketball that CP3 should be coming off the bench. It's so painfully obvious that Castle should be starting over CP3, that it might be at the point where CP3 bitching about "broken promises" might get met with "yeah, I hear ya man... but... you see what happened right?"

On the other hand, by continuing to start CP3 you also send the message that you're not an organization who operates on meritocracy. So just like a broken promise to CP3 might hurt us in recruiting old ass FAs who NEED a promise, not starting the guy who has clearly earned it might hurt us with hungry young players looking for a chance to shine. I'm thinking about one of my pet cats, Jake LaRavia. What if he's deciding between destinations and San Antonio is on the list, but he's thinking "but even if I significantly outperform Harrison Barnes I'm still going to be stuck on the bench playing 20 minutes a night... fuck that"

I think there are three pretty obvious solutions here, and I actually expect Mitch to take one of them coming out of the ASB:

1. You go to CP3 and have a sit down. "Things have changed. We've lived up to our promise up until now, we've given you an opportunity to pass up Kidd in steals and assists. We love and value you. But things have changed. Do you want to come off the bench, or do you want to find another team? We'll accommodate either." I actually think this is the least probable outcome, which is okay because the next two make just as much sense, IMO.

2. You just start Castle in place of Vassell. We sure as fuck don't have a promise made to Main Character Dev (though it's possible one exists in the simulated reality his lives in, where he and Kobe are hanging out day after day, going on tour as the two greatest players of all time). You tell Dev that this is his chance to carve out a long-term role on the team as a super 6th man. He could actually be a 6MOY type player if he committed to this role. Our franchise has the greatest 6th man of all time. He can follow in that legacy. Or we can find him a new home on whatever team needs a tank commander next season and he can live out his Main Character fantasies there. This option makes a ton of sense because not only do you get to see Wemby/Fox/Castle together but you also get to audition Vassell for the best role for him going forward. It's not really ideal, and we'll quickly have to rotate one of those guards out (preferably CP3) to ensure that one of CP3/Fox/Castle is on the court at all times (and ideally one of Fox/CP3 is on the court for a majority of those minutes. I'd do this I'm the Spurs.

3. You keep the lineups the same but just adjust the rotation so that CP3 gets a quick hook for Castle after 4 minutes and then it's almost like Castle started anyway. CP3 can play 26 minutes, 34 minutes for Fox, 30 minutes for Castle, and you still have 6 minutes for Dev at the 2 to go with another 24 at the 3. Each guy gets his PT. Problem solved. This is the easiest solution that requires the least amount of guts. So few guts, in fact, that I'm shocked Mitch hasn't already come up with it.

[spurraider21]

thanks for the write-up scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150)

this is assuming the spurs literally promised Paul he can start all 82 games as long as he's healthy enough to play no matter what (something im somewhat skeptical of)

i think option 1 was very obvious, but might be too late. the spurs told paul he can come and start, sure. but nobody in their right minds would fault the spurs for executing the De'Aaron Fox trade. imo they kind of already messed up by starting them together. if they just immediately proceeded as you described, they could have just sold it very cleanly as "fox replaced paul in the lineup", and not a rookie. but now that precedent has been set of paul/fox starting together, now paul will be getting benched for a rookie.

as for option 2... i dont like the idea of having our 3 point/combo guards all starting together. makes staggering them even more difficult. i also thing its best vassell be given more time to try and figure things out. at this point, im about as skeptical as you are of this, but given his age, contract, and talent level... its worth having him go out there among fox/wemby and doing his best to make that work

option 3 is probably the way to go. have paul be the nominal starter but scale back his minutes. paul/fox start together, paul is the first guy to sub out, and then by the time Fox (who plays big minutes) subs out, Paul is ready to come back in, so you have one of them on at all times

with all that said, i'm not convinced they made some unconditional promise, and should just sub paul out for castle anyway

[Bill_Brasky]

The Promise

[Mugen]

Maybe BWrong can pull a Frank Costello on CP3 during the AS break tbh

https://i.gifer.com/3NUC.gif

[Bruno]

For a little context about "the promise":
https://x.com/NBATV/status/1807633204175688178

What complicates the situation is that it is Pop who convinced Paul to sign as a starter. And Pop said his goal is to be back coaching again.

Johnson or Wright aren't really in a situation to have the talk with Paul. Only Pop can have it.

[baseline bum]

This is an interesting question that I think deserves a little more debate.

On one hand, you made a promise to a guy who likely knows just about everyone else in the league... but probably 75% of all those guys he knows hate him. Spurs can't afford to be a team with reputation that it doesn't live up to their word, but circumstances have changed to the point that it's clear to pretty much everyone who's ever watched more than 10 minutes of basketball that CP3 should be coming off the bench. It's so painfully obvious that Castle should be starting over CP3, that it might be at the point where CP3 bitching about "broken promises" might get met with "yeah, I hear ya man... but... you see what happened right?"

On the other hand, by continuing to start CP3 you also send the message that you're not an organization who operates on meritocracy. So just like a broken promise to CP3 might hurt us in recruiting old ass FAs who NEED a promise, not starting the guy who has clearly earned it might hurt us with hungry young players looking for a chance to shine. I'm thinking about one of my pet cats, Jake LaRavia. What if he's deciding between destinations and San Antonio is on the list, but he's thinking "but even if I significantly outperform Harrison Barnes I'm still going to be stuck on the bench playing 20 minutes a night... fuck that"

I think there are three pretty obvious solutions here, and I actually expect Mitch to take one of them coming out of the ASB:

1. You go to CP3 and have a sit down. "Things have changed. We've lived up to our promise up until now, we've given you an opportunity to pass up Kidd in steals and assists. We love and value you. But things have changed. Do you want to come off the bench, or do you want to find another team? We'll accommodate either." I actually think this is the least probable outcome, which is okay because the next two make just as much sense, IMO.

2. You just start Castle in place of Vassell. We sure as fuck don't have a promise made to Main Character Dev (though it's possible one exists in the simulated reality his lives in, where he and Kobe are hanging out day after day, going on tour as the two greatest players of all time). You tell Dev that this is his chance to carve out a long-term role on the team as a super 6th man. He could actually be a 6MOY type player if he committed to this role. Our franchise has the greatest 6th man of all time. He can follow in that legacy. Or we can find him a new home on whatever team needs a tank commander next season and he can live out his Main Character fantasies there. This option makes a ton of sense because not only do you get to see Wemby/Fox/Castle together but you also get to audition Vassell for the best role for him going forward. It's not really ideal, and we'll quickly have to rotate one of those guards out (preferably CP3) to ensure that one of CP3/Fox/Castle is on the court at all times (and ideally one of Fox/CP3 is on the court for a majority of those minutes. I'd do this I'm the Spurs.

3. You keep the lineups the same but just adjust the rotation so that CP3 gets a quick hook for Castle after 4 minutes and then it's almost like Castle started anyway. CP3 can play 26 minutes, 34 minutes for Fox, 30 minutes for Castle, and you still have 6 minutes for Dev at the 2 to go with another 24 at the 3. Each guy gets his PT. Problem solved. This is the easiest solution that requires the least amount of guts. So few guts, in fact, that I'm shocked Mitch hasn't already come up with it.

I like option #3. I think it's important to not just forget all the good CP3 has done for this team just because they got Fox now. Until the Fox trade most of us were pretty thrilled with what CP3 has brought to this team. I don't think someone like LaRavia is going to think the Spurs promised Harrison Barnes a starting spot, that seems like a real stretch. Option #1 is a complete no-go for me, I appreciate the hell out of CP3 and the improvement he has brought this team so there is no way in hell I'm pressuring him to go play somewhere else.

[KobesAchilles]

If I am the Spurs I want Fox, CP3 and Castle in the last 3 minutes of every quarter going forward. It gives Castle experience in what to do during winning time. It gives the Spurs a closer in Fox and it gives us a competent floor general making all our decisions in crunch time. Everything else I don’t really care about

[spurraider21]

I like option #3. I think it's important to not just forget all the good CP3 has done for this team just because they got Fox now. Until the Fox trade most of us were pretty thrilled with what CP3 has brought to this team. I don't think someone like LaRavia is going to think the Spurs promised Harrison Barnes a starting spot, that seems like a real stretch. Option #1 is a complete no-go for me, I appreciate the hell out of CP3 and the improvement he has brought this team so there is no way in hell I'm pressuring him to go play somewhere else.
nobody would pressure him to go play somewhere else. if he's just refusing to give up a starting gig when it makes sense for the club to do so, then thats on him. where else could he even go where he would start?

were it not for the Fox trade, i wouldnt have even considered benching Paul. id have continued to start Paul/Castle/Vassell and proceeded as we were. but things changed.

[scott]

thanks for the write-up scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150)

this is assuming the spurs literally promised Paul he can start all 82 games as long as he's healthy enough to play no matter what (something im somewhat skeptical of)

i think option 1 was very obvious, but might be too late. the spurs told paul he can come and start, sure. but nobody in their right minds would fault the spurs for executing the De'Aaron Fox trade. imo they kind of already messed up by starting them together. if they just immediately proceeded as you described, they could have just sold it very cleanly as "fox replaced paul in the lineup", and not a rookie. but now that precedent has been set of paul/fox starting together, now paul will be getting benched for a rookie.

as for option 2... i dont like the idea of having our 3 point/combo guards all starting together. makes staggering them even more difficult. i also thing its best vassell be given more time to try and figure things out. at this point, im about as skeptical as you are of this, but given his age, contract, and talent level... its worth having him go out there among fox/wemby and doing his best to make that work

option 3 is probably the way to go. have paul be the nominal starter but scale back his minutes. paul/fox start together, paul is the first guy to sub out, and then by the time Fox (who plays big minutes) subs out, Paul is ready to come back in, so you have one of them on at all times

with all that said, i'm not convinced they made some unconditional promise, and should just sub paul out for castle anyway


I like option #3. I think it's important to not just forget all the good CP3 has done for this team just because they got Fox now. Until the Fox trade most of us were pretty thrilled with what CP3 has brought to this team. I don't think someone like LaRavia is going to think the Spurs promised Harrison Barnes a starting spot, that seems like a real stretch. Option #1 is a complete no-go for me, I appreciate the hell out of CP3 and the improvement he has brought this team so there is no way in hell I'm pressuring him to go play somewhere else.

Yeah, I think #3 is perfectly fine, and it's easy. Like... really fucking easy. I only like #2 because I don't think there is any room for the roster for Devin as a #4 option getting paid 20% of the cap, so he really needs to become a high end 6th man or be moved, so this allows us to audition him in that role. However, you can still achieve that in Option 3.

For Option 3, I see it working something like this. This requires moving Keldon out of the rotation, which is something we should have done a long time ago, but that's a topic for another day.

https://i.imgur.com/jBDllL8.png

[RC_Drunkford]

For a little context about "the promise":
https://x.com/NBATV/status/1807633204175688178

What complicates the situation is that it is Pop who convinced Paul to sign as a starter. And Pop said his goal is to be back coaching again.

Johnson or Wright aren't really in a situation to have the talk with Paul. Only Pop can have it.

Pop has been at the Spurs practice facility since the trade deadline and is on calls with players and the bumass coaching staff everyday. He could just tell him to sit his ass down on the bench if he wanted to.

[Mugen]

Pop has been at the Spurs practice facility since the trade deadline and is on calls with players and the bumass coaching staff everyday. He could just tell him to sit his ass down on the bench if he wanted to.

Source?

[RC_Drunkford]

This is the easiest solution that requires the least amount of guts. So few guts, in fact, that I'm shocked Mitch hasn't already come up with it.

3. was my first suggestion as well, just make him the nominal starter and sub him out early. But according to Mitch line ups are "a rubik cube waiting to be solved". :lol (He really said that shit)


Source?

Obviously Mitch and the players, when it comes to Pop talking to them. As far as Pop being in the facility, Don Harris' podcast. They were saying that there were rumblings he was at the facility and then multiple people said the same thing. This happened before the Fox trade.

[scott]

3. was my first suggestion as well, just make him the nominal starter and sub him out early. But according to Mitch line ups are "a rubik cube waiting to be solved". :lol (He really said that shit)




Yeah, I read that Rubik's Cube thing on a Reddit post and it made me LOL. Reddit full of the dumbest sniffers in the Spurs universe, I swear.

My response to the Rubik's Cube thing was that the problem is that the Rubik's Cube seemingly befuddles Mitch, whereas there are 8 year olds who can solve a Rubik's Cube in under 5 minutes.

[dn0774]

Yeah, I read that Rubik's Cube thing on a Reddit post and it made me LOL. Reddit full of the dumbest sniffers in the Spurs universe, I swear.

My response to the Rubik's Cube thing was that the problem is that the Rubik's Cube seemingly befuddles Mitch, whereas there are 8 year olds who can solve a Rubik's Cube in under 5 minutes.

That quote reads like its from the dark ages before analytics were a thing, jfc.

[Knoxxx]

CP3 is most suited to be our head coach in waiting.

[Extra Stout]

I took the Rubik’s cube thing to mean nothing more than that he just needed a chance to put pen to paper on the changes to the rotation, not that it was some kind of unsolvable enigma.

[z0sa]

CP3 is most suited to be our head coach in waiting.

Doesn't have the personality for long-term head coaching in the vein of Pop, in my opinion. Grates on people too much.

Would be good for an up and coming team like us, I'll admit. But for a championship level roster, I don't think he'd be in the players' good graces very long.

[exstatic]

Doesn't have the personality for long-term head coaching in the vein of Pop, in my opinion. Grates on people too much.

Would be good for an up and coming team like us, I'll admit. But for a championship level roster, I don't think he'd be in the players' good graces very long.

Yeah, knowledge of the game isn’t the only qualification. Players take stuff from veteran players that they wouldn’t from a coach. He might well wind up like AJ, an extremely knowledgeable former NBA PG who just grates on players so much that he loses the locker room. Hell, AJ grated on Spurs players when he was active. He got into a fight with Malik, and once told DRob that God should take his gifts away since he did appreciate or maximize them.

[Ice009]

Yeah, knowledge of the game isn’t the only qualification. Players take stuff from veteran players that they wouldn’t from a coach. He might well wind up like AJ, an extremely knowledgeable former NBA PG who just grates on players so much that he loses the locker room. Hell, AJ grated on Spurs players when he was active. He got into a fight with Malik, and once told DRob that God should take his gifts away since he did appreciate or maximize them.

I agree. AJ is great and super knowledgeable, but he seems to really wear on players. He really has all the knowledge to be a great coach, but didn't quite have the personality/demeanor. Pop, when he was at his best had a great balance of people skills, knowledge and also able to be a hard ass and not lose his players.

Darn, I didn't know AJ said that to David. I wonder what he said to Malik to start that fight. I don't remember the details, was too young.

Didn't he also grate on TD? As in, TD wanted him off the team/didn't want him brought back?

[cutewizard]

I like option #3. I think it's important to not just forget all the good CP3 has done for this team just because they got Fox now. Until the Fox trade most of us were pretty thrilled with what CP3 has brought to this team. I don't think someone like LaRavia is going to think the Spurs promised Harrison Barnes a starting spot, that seems like a real stretch. Option #1 is a complete no-go for me, I appreciate the hell out of CP3 and the improvement he has brought this team so there is no way in hell I'm pressuring him to go play somewhere else.


Let's go for Option 3

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think we are just assuming Johnson is starting CP3 because of some promise or his inability to read the strategy to an egoistic veteran who wants to start.

I think there could be a simpler reason. Johnson simply feels that the offense is better with CP3 starting. It might be, but the defense sucks and the Spurs are going nowhere ..neither winning kor losing enough to get a top draft pick. All the Spurs have to do is to tell CP3 and Barnes to take a lesser role because the situation demands it. It might even extend CP3's career to one more year.

[timtonymanu]

Ideally, you bench Vassell and make him the 6th man. But okay with Option 3. This offseason is going to be crucial. It would be annoying if the Spurs run back the same roster. Keldon absolutely has to go and you consider trading Vassell if he just keeps stinking it up out there. His role keeps reducing (should be even less now that Castle is really taking a leap) because he hasn’t done any good with being the 2nd or 3rd option.

So glad that Tre and Zollins are gone after all. The Spurs need difference makers and those guys were not cutting it.

[Dejounte]

If Paul is a big reason for Castle’s development into who he is today, let him start the whole fucking season.

[spursparker9]

Tbh at this point I don't mind starting Castle, Fox, CP3.

Remove that bum Vassell.

[exstatic]

I think we are just assuming Johnson is starting CP3 because of some promise or his inability to read the strategy to an egoistic veteran who wants to start.

I think there could be a simpler reason. Johnson simply feels that the offense is better with CP3 starting. It might be, but the defense sucks and the Spurs are going nowhere ..neither winning kor losing enough to get a top draft pick. All the Spurs have to do is to tell CP3 and Barnes to take a lesser role because the situation demands it. It might even extend CP3's career to one more year.

They start the game with one arm tied behind their back with both Castle and Sochan on the bench. Seems like we’re constantly digging our selves out of a hole.

[rjv]

If Paul is a big reason for Castle’s development into who he is today, let him start the whole fucking season.

i was waiting for someone to write this. watching Castle last night, it was easy to see just how
much of an influence CP has been on Stephon. part of that may even be watching CP operate from the bench. the point is that none of us know the plan. it'd still be great to see an increase in Castle's minutes after the break.

[CGD]

i was waiting for someone to write this. watching Castle last night, it was easy to see just how
much of an influence CP has been on Stephon. part of that may even be watching CP operate from the bench. the point is that none of us know the plan. it'd still be great to see an increase in Castle's minutes after the break.

In the grand scheme of things, we’re only talking about another 7 weeks.

[Knoxxx]

This is ridiculous. We are in this pretend universe like we actually want to win this year. Come on man.

Edit: I do realize it is interesting to debate about lineups and CP3 etc, but the worse our lineups are the more we lose. We should just be rolling with CP3, Wesley, Branham, Mamu, and Biyombo rest of the season. Alternate some games with Castle and Wemby to make sure they get to 65 games played then rest them often with fake injuries such as hamstring tightness or sore ankles.

[Chomag]

Mitch is just honoring Pops wishes on Castle getting over himself

[Mr. Body]

I dunno. Castle's efficiency and production has taken a leap lately and he's coming off the bench in somewhat reduced minutes. I wonder if coming off the bench without those extended minutes is helping him be more efficient? Hmm.

[Obstructed_View]

If Paul is a big reason for Castle’s development into who he is today, let him start the whole fucking season.
If CP3 gets all the credit for Castle, does he get all the blame for the lack of development of everyone else?

[exstatic]

If CP3 gets all the credit for Castle, does he get all the blame for the lack of development of everyone else?

Are they all point guards?

[Obstructed_View]

Are they all point guards?
Sochan, Wesley and Branham ran more point than Castle did going into this season. Tre Jones was a point guard who Paul didn't improve.

[exstatic]

Sochan, Wesley and Branham ran more point than Castle did going into this season. Tre Jones was a point guard who Paul didn't improve.

A brilliant deduction, considering Castle wasn’t here before this season.

[Obstructed_View]

A brilliant deduction, considering Castle wasn’t here before this season.

Neither was Paul. Perhaps it's more likely that Castle is a good player and we shouldn't falsely give credit to CP3 and reward him for that false credit by allowing him to start at the expense of both team success and Castle's development.

[exstatic]

Neither was Paul. Perhaps it's more likely that Castle is a good player and we shouldn't falsely give credit to CP3 and reward him for that false credit by allowing him to start at the expense of both team success and Castle's development.

Or, perhaps, he actually can improve young players like SGA and Book, who credit him with boosting their games.

[Obstructed_View]

Or, perhaps, he actually can improve young players like SGA and Book, who credit him with boosting their games.

Too bad for the Spurs he can't do it from the fucking bench.

[Seventyniner]

Or, perhaps, he actually can improve young players like SGA and Book, who credit him with boosting their games.

Castle himself said CP3 has taught him a lot in last night's interview.

[scott]

CP3's teachings are like Samson's how strength comes from his hair. They disappear if he is on the bench... or something.

[tonight...you]

Too bad for the Spurs he can't do it from the fucking bench.
I like how you have "Out with the old..." while having Mario Elie in your avi with grey in his beard.
I just dig it.

[Obstructed_View]

I like how you have "Out with the old..." while having Mario Elie in your avi with grey in his beard.
I just dig it.
Lmao my old avi was in support of Dom Barlow. I didn't want to make a new one and I love Mario. Tbh I don't even remember what out with the old was. May have gone back to Timmy. :lol

Fuck we got old!

[dn0774]

Castle himself said CP3 has taught him a lot in last night's interview.

I mean, what else would he say? lol

The career CP3 has had at his physical profile is nothing short of incredible, though.

[Knoxxx]

I’m still grappling with how incongruent this thread title with the obvious need to be soft tanking. It’s an even worse look if Mitch is so clever that he’s soft tanking while people lose their shit over him not deciding playing time based on best chance to win. The very definition of soft tanking means it’s not noticeable or provable which would be a master class in this case. Perhaps even gas lighting the entire team.

[DAF86]

I’m still grappling with how incongruent this thread title with the obvious need to be soft tanking. It’s an even worse look if Mitch is so clever that he’s soft tanking while people lose their shit over him not deciding playing time based on best chance to win. The very definition of soft tanking means it’s not noticeable or provable which would be a master class in this case. Perhaps even gas lighting the entire team.

You don't play Wemby the entire 4th quarter if you are trying to "soft tank", tbh. :lol

Do you really think the Spurs traded for Fox and are making him play on a surgery needing injury to "soft tank"? :lol

[Slippy]

It seems the coaches are using Steph as the 1s if not 2nd option no matter the lineup when compared to last year when the season began.

Wpuld prefer him to start over Chris but that's progress for me. The coaches are seeing what we all see

[Dejounte]

If CP3 gets all the credit for Castle, does he get all the blame for the lack of development of everyone else?

If you have been in any kind of mentorship in the workplace, you’d know mentors only have time for 1-2 persons to devote themselves to.

[ginobilized]

I think there are three pretty obvious solutions here, and I actually expect Mitch to take one of them coming out of the ASB:

1. You go to CP3 and have a sit down. "Things have changed. We've lived up to our promise up until now, we've given you an opportunity to pass up Kidd in steals and assists. We love and value you. But things have changed. Do you want to come off the bench, or do you want to find another team? We'll accommodate either." I actually think this is the least probable outcome, which is okay because the next two make just as much sense, IMO.

2. You just start Castle in place of Vassell. We sure as fuck don't have a promise made to Main Character Dev (though it's possible one exists in the simulated reality his lives in, where he and Kobe are hanging out day after day, going on tour as the two greatest players of all time). You tell Dev that this is his chance to carve out a long-term role on the team as a super 6th man. He could actually be a 6MOY type player if he committed to this role. Our franchise has the greatest 6th man of all time. He can follow in that legacy. Or we can find him a new home on whatever team needs a tank commander next season and he can live out his Main Character fantasies there. This option makes a ton of sense because not only do you get to see Wemby/Fox/Castle together but you also get to audition Vassell for the best role for him going forward. It's not really ideal, and we'll quickly have to rotate one of those guards out (preferably CP3) to ensure that one of CP3/Fox/Castle is on the court at all times (and ideally one of Fox/CP3 is on the court for a majority of those minutes. I'd do this I'm the Spurs.

3. You keep the lineups the same but just adjust the rotation so that CP3 gets a quick hook for Castle after 4 minutes and then it's almost like Castle started anyway. CP3 can play 26 minutes, 34 minutes for Fox, 30 minutes for Castle, and you still have 6 minutes for Dev at the 2 to go with another 24 at the 3. Each guy gets his PT. Problem solved. This is the easiest solution that requires the least amount of guts. So few guts, in fact, that I'm shocked Mitch hasn't already come up with it.

I like all 3 options here. Option 2 is the one I'd go with because Castle is stronger and closer to a 3 than Vassell. I'm not sure why Devin is even playing as a 3, he's a clear 2.
Patience is key here, but, it is frustrating nonetheless to keep playing guys out of their natural positions for huge portions of the season. Adding a serviceable 3 and 4 will get us in the play-in race or beyond next season. It will be interesting to see which way it goes.

Here's a wildcard Option 4. Shelve Fox and get his surgery done so he can heal up in time for training camp. Move Castle into the starting lineup with CP3. This honors the Pop's sacred trust and gets our boy Castle back as a starter.

[LeBowen]

If you have been in any kind of mentorship in the workplace, you’d know mentors only have time for 1-2 persons to devote themselves to.

Call me crazy, but I don't think our players aren't competitive, it's just that competitiveness gets you only so far if most lineups are dyfunctional.
Our roster is severely limited with very few players who can do more than one thing on a good level.
Shooting, playmaking, defense (rebounding included for wing positions). How many players outside of Wemby are a positive in 2/3 of those categories?

The league has really evolved over the past years and players who can do just one thing aren't a thing anymore in the playoffs.
Whether it be great shooters who can't defend or great defenders who can't shoot.
Having an elite rim protector is a cherry on top, but wings are as equally as important in modern NBA. That's why Rockets are having a great season despite having no rim protection whatsoever.

It's not about effort if the team is always fighting losing battles with awful lineups, rotations and defensive schemes.
Not to mention that most of them wouldn't be playing any minutes for serious title contenders.

[exstatic]

You don't play Wemby the entire 4th quarter if you are trying to "soft tank", tbh. :lol

Do you really think the Spurs traded for Fox and are making him play on a surgery needing injury to "soft tank"? :lol

There’s some thought that they’ll shut Fox down for the surgery so he can be back for training camp. Would you buy a soft tank in that case?

[Ice009]

There’s some thought that they’ll shut Fox down for the surgery so he can be back for training camp. Would you buy a soft tank in that case?

Has there been talk of shutting him down?

[DAF86]

There’s some thought that they’ll shut Fox down for the surgery so he can be back for training camp. Would you buy a soft tank in that case?

The soft tank would start then, not now and all these games we lost.

[Obstructed_View]

If you have been in any kind of mentorship in the workplace, you’d know mentors only have time for 1-2 persons to devote themselves to.
Lol how convenient.

[ambchang]

I don’t mind having castle come off the bench now that he’s playing well in that role, what I have problems is is that he’s playing like 20 mins a game, wth is that? He’s playing awesome, he’s your rookie who is likely going to be a main part of your future, so play him accordingly. Put him on the floor for 30 mins a game, play him with fox, play him with CP, play him without another PG, he will be in those scenarios. I don’t care, just let him play with wemby because that’s your 1-2.

That’s the other thing, cp3 is like freaking my age. Why are you sitting your future for him? It’s like having Anthony Davis and not play wemby. Is he your future? Well if he is then play him. Show him the team is committed to him. Instead you play cp3, Harrison Barnes, who are nice vets, but most definitely not your future, and Vassell, who’s like, I don’t even know. Show some actual direction and vision.

[cutewizard]

Guys, is it true the rumor that Coach Mitch shall try different combinations after the All Star break?

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/_ZbzLXUxAL8?si=ei-AyQDGkCP_aYLK

[Chomag]

It should be a crime for how little playing time he is getting

[exstatic]

Guys, is it true the rumor that Coach Mitch shall try different combinations after the All Star break?

There was a little blurb that the staff was going to re-evaluate the rotation during the break.

[Knoxxx]

Overall that video is pretty lame because it builds on the false hope that this Spurs team is a contender this year. We have to play .600 ball the rest of the season to get to .500. That might not even get us into the play-in, as of today it would not be enough (GS/SAC .509). We have big problems in the front court that are not going to be addressed this season. Most of our rotation players have not been playing like playoff caliber rotation players.

Castle is averaging 19.0 PPG on 24.8 minutes the last 5 games. He is getting a solid audition as a primary 1 v 1 attacker and looked great doing it. We really don't need to see much more, and playing him a lot more could be better in the win-loss column but bad for our draft position.

Time to do some alternating lineups that include some of our end of bench guys. Give them a last chance audition to make the roster for next season.

[DAF86]

I don't care if they bench CP3 or Vassell. Castle needs to start and play 30 minutes a night.

[DAF86]

Overall that video is pretty lame because it builds on the false hope that this Spurs team is a contender this year. We have to play .600 ball the rest of the season to get to .500. That might not even get us into the play-in, as of today it would not be enough (GS/SAC .509). We have big problems in the front court that are not going to be addressed this season. Most of our rotation players have not been playing like playoff caliber rotation players.

Castle is averaging 19.0 PPG on 24.8 minutes the last 5 games. He is getting a solid audition as a primary 1 v 1 attacker and looked great doing it. We really don't need to see much more, and playing him a lot more could be better in the win-loss column but bad for our draft position.

Time to do some alternating lineups that include some of our end of bench guys. Give them a last chance audition to make the roster for next season.

Stop it. The Spurs need to go for wins. If by the last month of the reg season, they are out of the picture, then you can tank properly, but for now, play to win. It's what's better for the development of Wemby and Castle and the chemestry they need to build with Fox.

[exstatic]

Stop it. The Spurs need to go for wins. If by the last month of the reg season, they are out of the picture, then you can tank properly, but for now, play to win. It's what's better for the development of Wemby and Castle and the chemestry they need to build with Fox.

That’s legit 24 days away, 11 more days in Feb and 13 days in march. I remember in the run up to the Fox trade that if he waits until the end of the regular season, he might miss time next season. Not sure if that was training camp, preseason, or regular season, but I don’t even want him missing open gym runs, let alone any of that. It would be a perfectly legit reason to shut him down after a familiarization period of a few weeks with Wemby.

[Knoxxx]

Stop it. The Spurs need to go for wins. If by the last month of the reg season, they are out of the picture, then you can tank properly, but for now, play to win. It's what's better for the development of Wemby and Castle and the chemestry they need to build with Fox.

Here’s 3 reasons I won’t stop: Flagg, Harper, Bailey.

[scott]

That’s legit 24 days away, 11 more days in Feb and 13 days in march. I remember in the run up to the Fox trade that if he waits until the end of the regular season, he might miss time next season. Not sure if that was training camp, preseason, or regular season, but I don’t even want him missing open gym runs, let alone any of that. It would be a perfectly legit reason to shut him down after a familiarization period of a few weeks with Wemby.

I couldn't find anywhere that it was reported how long Fox's recovery is expected to take, but if I have faith in anything about the Spurs - is that they'll not delay things play Fox in meaningless games that jeopardize next season if we're out of the play-in race. Fox's pinky injury is listed as a "dislocated pinky" in Tom Osborn articles where he talks about it requiring surgery, but I've also heard reports where Fox has mentioned ligament damage. Either way, I'm losing no sleep over the possibility of Fox missing camp or the start of the season... and if he does miss time at the start of next season because we decided some meaningless end of season games were more important, then we have problems bigger than Fox's pinky.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I don't want to tank but I don't want the Spurs to use the veterans to win. Let Fox, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby start...play more minutes and figure out what they need to improve on to win. If they can't win, doesn't matter ....it will help our lottery position. If they do win, they get into the play in and they gain more experience to perform in playoff like situations. But the key is for the core, as it stands, to play together and grow and learn together. The spacing will be cluttered, and the shooting might be bad..but the defense will be top notch and Fox and Wemby can cook on either ends. Rest CP3 and Barnes as much as they can. Play them in a veteran second unit - CP3, Johnson, Champs, Barnes and Biyombo/Mamu/ Bassey.

[scott]

I don't want to tank but I don't want the Spurs to use the veterans to win. Let Fox, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby start...play more minutes and figure out what they need to improve on to win. If they can't win, doesn't matter ....it will help our lottery position. If they do win, they get into the play in and they gain more experience to perform in playoff like situations. But the key is for the core, as it stands, to play together and grow and learn together. The spacing will be cluttered, and the shooting might be bad..but the defense will be top notch and Fox and Wemby can cook on either ends. Rest CP3 and Barnes as much as they can. Play them in a veteran second unit - CP3, Johnson, Champs, Barnes and Biyombo/Mamu/ Bassey.

In a similar vein, I'd like to see Vassell moved to the 6th man role so he can spend the rest of the season auditioning for that role. He makes no sense as a 4th option in the starting lineup, where he'll be asked to play out of position and get hunted on defense, so let's just cut to the chase and play him as the 6th man which honestly is really his only hope at being a productive member of this team going forward.

[Spursfanfromafar]

In a similar vein, I'd like to see Vassell moved to the 6th man role so he can spend the rest of the season auditioning for that role. He makes no sense as a 4th option in the starting lineup, where he'll be asked to play out of position and get hunted on defense, so let's just cut to the chase and play him as the 6th man which honestly is really his only hope at being a productive member of this team going forward.

I would prefer that if we have a Vassell replacement ready for the SL. As serviceable as Champs has been, he isn't that guy for me. I would tell Vassell to look at the next 30 games as an audition for a role in the next Spurs core. Live up to it but if you can't, no more guaranteed SL for you or maybe even you become trade fodder. So, hit your open threes and attack the weak side defense whenever you can, make the smart pass and maximise your help defense and don't be a traffic cone one-on-one. As disappointing as his season has been so far and as maddeningly inconsistent it has been, I don't think Vassell is a lost cause as yet. He can be the Brent Barry in 2005 or Danny Green from 2012 to 2018 for us going forward. Will he be overpaid? Maybe.

If Vassell flops and there is a possibility that he does, it only helps us maximise our odds for a Top pick in the draft. And get a four (floor stretching, defensive minded PF) and a SG in a draft with an abundance of that talent at the top. And then use Vassell and Keldon (who IS a lost cause) plus Barnes for a good third banana to Wemby and Fox. That's my plan.

[scott]

I would prefer that if we have a Vassell replacement ready for the SL. As serviceable as Champs has been, he isn't that guy for me. I would tell Vassell to look at the next 30 games as an audition for a role in the next Spurs core. Live up to it but if you can't, no more guaranteed SL for you or maybe even you become trade fodder. So, hit your open threes and attack the weak side defense whenever you can, make the smart pass and maximise your help defense and don't be a traffic cone one-on-one. As disappointing as his season has been so far and as maddeningly inconsistent it has been, I don't think Vassell is a lost cause as yet. He can be the Brent Barry in 2005 or Danny Green from 2012 to 2018 for us going forward. Will he be overpaid? Maybe.

IDK, seems like you're putting Devin's future on him being something he's not (4th option off the ball offensive player, solid defender) which is just doomed to fail instead of getting a chance to thrive at the thing he might be really good at (6th man, 1st option with the bench unit). And if Devin fails at being that 4th option 3&D wing (which I think he probably will), you've probably done nothing than figured out what you probably already knew and destroyed Devin's trade value in the process.

I understand your POV on wanting something better for the SL before making that move, but I actually think that's the role Champ would be best in (where he'd actually be the 5th option behind Barnes). Yes, we can and should look to upgrade Champ in the offseason, but as far as archetype goes, Champ fits pretty perfectly, IMO.



If Vassell flops and there is a possibility that he does, it only helps us maximise our odds for a Top pick in the draft. And get a four (floor stretching, defensive minded PF) and a SG in a draft with an abundance of that talent at the top. And then use Vassell and Keldon (who IS a lost cause) plus Barnes for a good third banana to Wemby and Fox. That's my plan.

We have the 3rd banana already. He's about to win ROY.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Aah yes. You are right. Castle is getting there but he is still a jump shot away from being a third banana on a contender. And so he will remain a high level starter until he gets there. And I am very optimistic he will get there not long after.

[Spursfanfromafar]

IDK, seems like you're putting Devin's future on him being something he's not (4th option off the ball offensive player, solid defender) which is just doomed to fail instead of getting a chance to thrive at the thing he might be really good at (6th man, 1st option with the bench unit). And if Devin fails at being that 4th option 3&D wing (which I think he probably will), you've probably done nothing than figured out what you probably already knew and destroyed Devin's trade value in the process.

I understand your POV on wanting something better for the SL before making that move, but I actually think that's the role Champ would be best in (where he'd actually be the 5th option behind Barnes). Yes, we can and should look to upgrade Champ in the offseason, but as far as archetype goes, Champ fits pretty perfectly, IMO.




We have the 3rd banana already. He's about to win ROY.

Also, I feel Vassell being tried out in the Manu role is something that the Spurs should work out only after next season. The reason why I say this is that Vassell has been net negative outside the lineups featuring Wemby, CP3 and Castle. He isn't a microwave scorer like Lou Williams or an elite P and R creator/scorer like Manu (in the extreme versions). He has to stay in his lane of being a good three point shooter and a decent finisher against a scrambled defense and a solid help defender when surrounded with on ball talent. That is a better way of maximizing his potential and his play. Considering this, his salary might be overpay, for sure. But with the cap going up, % wise it won't hurt much until the Spurs need a trade if they have to loosen their purse strings for Wemby..which is still 2 years away, right?

[scott]

Also, I feel Vassell being tried out in the Manu role is something that the Spurs should work out only after next season. The reason why I say this is that Vassell has been net negative outside the lineups featuring Wemby, CP3 and Castle. He isn't a microwave scorer like Lou Williams or an elite P and R creator/scorer like Manu (in the extreme versions). He has to stay in his lane of being a good three point shooter and a decent finisher against a scrambled defense and a solid help defender when surrounded with on ball talent. That is a better way of maximizing his potential and his play. Considering this, his salary might be overpay, for sure. But with the cap going up, % wise it won't hurt much until the Spurs need a trade if they have to loosen their purse strings for Wemby..which is still 2 years away, right?

If that's what we need, and you don't like Devin as the 6th man, then I think you just trade him, because there a lot better (and less expensive) guys who fill the role you are describing.

I definitely wouldn't wait 18 months to figure all of this out (after next season). I'd give it the next 30-whatever games are left to figure out and then make the moves that we need to make. I actually expect them to include Vassell, because our FO gives a lot of leash, but I think they should be more critical in this specific evaluation over the next 2 months. Just my personal opinion... but my avatar reveals my bias :)

[DAF86]

Castle only 10 minutes in the first half. Seriously fuck Mitch, tbh.

[PICK-N-ROLL]

Castle 13 minutes 12 points. Fuck Mitch

[Manu-of-steel]

WTF is Mitch thinking. CP3 on a 2nd night of B2B still on the floor!

[Cardinal]

So far basically same amount of playing time as Biyombo

[DAF86]

Seriously, this is so fucking dumb. After Wemby went down, priority #1 should be getting Castle as much developing time as possible. For real, fuck this weak ass pussy, he's not coach material. This guy really made me wish for Pop's comeback.

[spursparker9]

:lol 13 mins 12 pts. 0 min in 4Q

[Manu-of-steel]

Still no Castle. Fuck Mitch!!!!

[tim_duncan_fan]

Seriously, this is so fucking dumb. After Wemby went down, priority #1 should be getting Castle as much developing time as possible. For real, fuck this weak ass pussy, he's not coach material. This guy really made me wish for Pop's comeback.

Pop would do the same lol. Remember begging him to try Dejounte and Derrick White at the same time early on?

[DAF86]

It's gotten to a point where we need to start hoping for injuries on our own players for the fucking coach of the team to do what he's suppossed to do. Fucking pathetic.

[DAF86]

Pop would do the same lol. Remember begging him to try Dejounte and Derrick White at the same time early on?

Well, at least it would be Pop doing it and not this fucking puppet.

[objective]

Obviously he got way too much attention during the all-star weekend and now the coaches are going overboard in burying him so that he can get over himself.

This is the Pop way: sabotage and misuse

[lefty20]

Gotta protect Castle's old legs on a b2b. Good call, Mitch!

[spursparker9]

CIA Mitch giving back Castle his rest time if he did not participate in the AS weekend.

Rest > Overwork. See Wemby's injury. His blood clot on the shoulder is likely due to over repetition doing overhead motion (i.e. shooting motion)

[spurraider21]

It's gotten to a point where we need to start hoping for injuries on our own players for the fucking coach of the team to do what he's suppossed to do. Fucking pathetic.
this had to happen last year. after we mercifully ended point sochan experiment we turned to point branham. we didnt begin starting Tre Jones until after branham got hurt

[CorrectCrusader]

Pop would do the same lol. Remember begging him to try Dejounte and Derrick White at the same time early on?

Bryn Forbes is a recurring member of my nightmares

[ffadicted]

This is a fucking joke. Play Castle of GTFO. Nothing else to say, this is a fucking embarrassment to the fans and the development of our team.

Paul + Barnes + Vassell + Champagnie = 10 points in 80 minutes
Castle = 12 points in 13 minutes

Like what

[objective]

this had to happen last year. after we mercifully ended point sochan experiment we turned to point branham. we didnt begin starting Tre Jones until after branham got hurt

You skipped over point Cedi

[dn0774]

Did Castle get dinged up or something? 13 mins? If not, this is literal coaching malpractice and if the front office/Pop is in on it they shouldn't be surprised when this chases away a talented young kid going for RotY, about the only thing fans have to hope for in this season from hell.

[daslicer]

Seriously, this is so fucking dumb. After Wemby went down, priority #1 should be getting Castle as much developing time as possible. For real, fuck this weak ass pussy, he's not coach material. This guy really made me wish for Pop's comeback.

For all we know Pop could be telling him to do this behind closed doors.

[onechance87]

yea media should be calling out mitch for this.This is not right.What kind of development is this shit.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's gotten to a point where we need to start hoping for injuries on our own players for the fucking coach of the team to do what he's suppossed to do. Fucking pathetic.

well that's how Pop usually found the right line ups too. That's how he figured out he should start Tre Jones at PG last season.

[RC_Drunkford]

also why is the 2nd youngest team in the league starting 3 players over 30?

[Ice009]

I don't understand what the fuck is going on. I like De'Aaron Fox and all, but the reason I'm watching these games without Victor is Stephon Castle. If they're not going to play him, I'm not interested in watching this shit.

Spurs get down in a big hole to start the 3rd quarter and Steph is brought out there with 3 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. Did he do something wrong in the first half (except get underplayed)? I expected to see him start the 4th and he's benched again after a 3 minute stint in the third, so I came on here to see if he played any more of the game as I wasn't interested in watching the rest of the 4th if you guys said he didn't play the rest of the night. Turns out he didn't, so I turned it off.

If this is "get over yourself," Steph needs to ask why he's not playing.

[SpursGenius]

Dumbfuck halfbreed mutant coach. What do you expect. Either that or ole hag senile telling him to.