For those who believe ...

[Yonivore]

... the 14th Amendment confers citizenship on anyone who manages to get born here, what is the purpose of the second part of the opening sentence? "...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."?

I mean if your mother manages to cross the border and give birth to you on U. S. soil, why is there a qualifier that you be subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

To me, and most thinking people, this is a constraint on who can be born here AND become a citizen. If not, why bother putting that language in the amendment?

We know why Senator Howard (the author) included the language but, that's not good enough for you who believe birth on U.S. soil, alone, confers citizenship. So, let's hear it. Why is the language there. Why not just leave it off and say, if you're born here, you're a citizen, as you all seem to believe?

[Thread]

Silence is golden.

[Blake]

Funny how you guys fight so hard to nitpick the 14th Amendment but have no problem going all in on the 2nd amendment on one little phrase of "right to bear arms".

Morons

[Thread]

Funny how you guys fight so hard to nitpick the 14th Amendment but have no problem going all in on the 2nd amendment on one little phrase of "right to bear arms".

Morons

That above "right" keeps you fellows on the curb, otherwise, you'd be on the front stoop.

The founders, Blake,,,they knew just as sure as the turnin' of the earth, son.

[Winehole23]

everyone residing in the US except for foreign ambassadors are subject to US law. that includes people born here.

the idea that the 14th Amendment contains magic words that invalidate the plain meaning that's been followed -- even taught in law schools -- for 160 years, is dumb.

[Thread]

everyone residing in the US except for foreign ambassadors are subject to US law. that includes people born here.

the idea that the 14th Amendment contains magic words that invalidate the plain meaning that's been followed -- even taught in law schools -- for 160 years, is dumb.

...we're gonna see, son. Just be grateful you got the Barrett chick doubting her pootie..."Oh, I don't know. I'm fraught with doubt now. Oh, me. Oh, my."

& that fuck Roberts is just waitin' for a hard break Left outta her.

[ChumpDumper]

... the 14th Amendment confers citizenship on anyone who manages to get born here, what is the purpose of the second part of the opening sentence? "...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."?

I mean if your mother manages to cross the border and give birth to you on U. S. soil, why is there a qualifier that you be subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

To me, and most thinking people, this is a constraint on who can be born here AND become a citizen. If not, why bother putting that language in the amendment?

We know why Senator Howard (the author) included the language but, that's not good enough for you who believe birth on U.S. soil, alone, confers citizenship. So, let's hear it. Why is the language there. Why not just leave it off and say, if you're born here, you're a citizen, as you all seem to believe?High level foreign diplomats were and are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. You probably remember the concept of diplomatic immunity from the classic legal drama Lethal Weapon 2.

We also used to consider native American tribes as sovereign nations and their members were also not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States on their reservations.

That's it.

If you think no non-American citizen is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States of America then you believe no illegal alien can be prosecuted for any crime committed in the US in any regular criminal court in the US.

Is this what you believe?

Yes or no.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you think jurisdiction means, dude?

[ChumpDumper]

everyone residing in the US except for foreign ambassadors are subject to US law. that includes people born here.

the idea that the 14th Amendment contains magic words that invalidate the plain meaning that's been followed -- even taught in law schools -- for 160 years, is dumb.

"Learn this one weird trick that will keep the yellows and browns from replacing you!"

[Yonivore]

everyone residing in the US except for foreign ambassadors are subject to US law. that includes people born here.
From where do you get this nugget?


the idea that the 14th Amendment contains magic words that invalidate the plain meaning that's been followed -- even taught in law schools -- for 160 years, is dumb.
Never said they were magic. The author, Senator Howard, explained the phrase but, foreign ambassadors weren't the only exception to "birthright citizenship" intended. And, the courts have never decided on birthright citizenship for illegal aliens -- in all of the past 160 years. Now, it will finally get decided, I hope.

[Yonivore]

everyone residing in the US except for foreign ambassadors are subject to US law. that includes people born here.

the idea that the 14th Amendment contains magic words that invalidate the plain meaning that's been followed -- even taught in law schools -- for 160 years, is dumb.
Ask yourself this, Winehole; why are the children of foreign ambassadors excepted from birthright citizenship?

Hint: It's for the same reason illegal aliens are excepted from birthright citizenship.


“This will not, [B]of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”
Because, of course, it would be stupid to grant citizenship to an individual that owes allegiance to a foreign power or who does not [through (a) legally present parent(s)] profess allegiance to the United States of America.

[Blake]

Lol Lethal Weapon 2. Riggs didn't care about the South African diplomatic immunity, probably just like Mel in real life.

[ChumpDumper]

Ask yourself this, Winehole; why are the children of foreign ambassadors excepted from birthright citizenship?

Hint: It's for the same reason illegal aliens are excepted from birthright citizenship.

“This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, [B]but will include every other class of persons.”

Because, of course, it would be stupid to grant citizenship to an individual that owes allegiance to a foreign power or who does not [through (a) legally present parent(s)] profess allegiance to the United States of America.
:lol

I mean you could've at least tried to hide this with ellipses or something.

[Yonivore]

:lol

I mean you could've at least tried to hide this with ellipses or something.
Why? He specifically excludes foreigners and aliens.

[ChumpDumper]

Why? He specifically excludes foreigners and aliens.:lol no

He specifically excludes "foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States" -- you should have tried ellipses there too.

"Aliens" is just renaming "foreigners" -- not introducing another group of people. They're one and the same.

The phrase in red is the specificity.

You really can't read.

[Yonivore]

:lol no

He specifically excludes "foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States" -- you should have tried ellipses there too.

"Aliens" is just renaming "foreigners" -- not introducing another group of people. They're one and the same.

The phrase in red is the specificity.

You really can't read.
Commas are important to comprehension. Those are 3 separate and distinct exclusions:

Persons born in the United States who are foreigners
Persons born in the United States who are aliens
Persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States

[ChumpDumper]

Commas are important to comprehension. Those are 3 separate and distinct exclusions:

Persons born in the United States who are foreigners
Persons born in the United States who are aliens
Persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States
:lmao no

How are foreigners different from aliens?

This [being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons

What is the meaning of "who" in this sentence?

[Blake]

Commas are important to comprehension. Those are 3 separate and distinct exclusions:

Persons born in the United States who are foreigners
Persons born in the United States who are aliens
Persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States

Cool, what's your understanding of the difference between foreigner and alien

[ChumpDumper]

Cool, what's your understanding of the difference between foreigner and alien

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdHBrcjltZ2o1djhyZzExaTExZHZjZjA 3andjNmU1ZjY2YzhuengxeSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/AwrtP9lMXtXiM/giphy.gif

[Yonivore]

:lmao no

How are foreigners different from aliens?
All aliens are foreigners but not all foreigners are aliens. In the context of the 14th Amendment, a foreigner refers to someone who owes allegiance to another country, while an alien is a non-citizen residing within U.S. jurisdiction.


This [being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons

What is the meaning of "who" in this sentence?
People not subject to U. S. Jurisdiction. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

[ChumpDumper]

All aliens are foreigners but not all foreigners are aliens. In the context of the 14th Amendment, a foreigner refers to someone who owes allegiance to another country, while an alien is a non-citizen residing within U.S. jurisdiction.Where are these terms defined?

Why couldn't they just be included in the actual amendment?

People not subject to U. S. Jurisdiction. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?So those are neither foreigners nor aliens?

Or could they be both?

You're really twisting yourself in knots. I mean you have to assume the Senator had a stroke or was drunk to leave out the word "and" in the sentence you're trying to create.

It's just easier to accept he was talking about one class of people, as had been the understanding for decades. I can show you an 1830 SCOTUS decision if you're actually interested in the law.

[Yonivore]

Where are these terms defined?

Why couldn't they just be included in the actual amendment?
So those are neither foreigners nor aliens?

Or could they be both?

You're really twisting yourself in knots.

It's just easier to accept he was talking about one class of people, as had been the understanding for decades. I can show you an 1830 SCOTUS decision if you're actually interested in the law.
Why didn't it just say if you're born here, you're a citizen?

[ChumpDumper]

Why didn't it just say if you're born here, you're a citizen?Because the exceptions were already part of common law and Supreme Court precedent. To leave them out of a constitutional amendment would've changed those entirely.

[Spurs Homer]

... the 14th Amendment confers citizenship on anyone who manages to get born here, what is the purpose of the second part of the opening sentence? "...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."?

I mean if your mother manages to cross the border and give birth to you on U. S. soil, why is there a qualifier that you be subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

To me, and most thinking people, this is a constraint on who can be born here AND become a citizen. If not, why bother putting that language in the amendment?

We know why Senator Howard (the author) included the language but, that's not good enough for you who believe birth on U.S. soil, alone, confers citizenship. So, let's hear it. Why is the language there. Why not just leave it off and say, if you're born here, you're a citizen, as you all seem to believe?

Would you support deporting Barron Trump - melania's "anchor baby"

?

[ChumpDumper]

Hell, the citizenship of Trump's entire lineage would have to be proved from the time they got off the boat. Fruit from the poisonous tree and all.

[Yonivore]

Would you support deporting Barron Trump - melania's "anchor baby"

?
Since one of his parents was a U. S. Citizen at birth, he's not an "anchor baby," he's a U. S. Citizen.

[ChumpDumper]

Since one of his parents was a U. S. Citizen at birth, he's not an "anchor baby," he's a U. S. Citizen.How do you really know?

Maybe his parents weren't really citizens.

Or their parents.

We have to see all the documentation to be sure, according to your interpretation of the law.

[Spurs Homer]

Since one of his parents was a U. S. Citizen at birth, he's not an "anchor baby," he's a U. S. Citizen.

One is an immigrant..
the other a Felon

not sure he can stay...

[Winehole23]

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:36eqtmzysqf7wsslczw4uxcd/bafkreic5jzmkcexdm2623qucyog45xlwjugugcxqfp5lsxddo [email protected] (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nhd.64907/gov.uscourts.nhd.64907.79.0.pdf)

[Winehole23]

The defendants advance nonfrivolous arguments in support of a different meaning, primarily focusing on the concepts of “allegiance” and “domicile,” the scope of the government’s regulatory “jurisdiction,” the status of Native Americans under the Fourteenth Amendment, and the precedent of Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884), but in the face of an unambiguous constitutional amendment and unambiguous statute, they do 8 Case 1:25-cv-00038-JL-TSM Document 79 Filed 02/11/25 Page 9 of 11 not persuade.18 “As our Court of Appeals has stated, ‘genuine ambiguity requires more than a possible alternative construction.’” United States v. Potter, 610 F. Supp. 3d 402, 415 (D.N.H. 2022), aff’d, 78 F.4th 486 (1st Cir. 2023) (quoting United States v. Jimenez, 507 F.3d 13, 21 (1st Cir. 2007)). Nothing in the text, precedent, history, or tradition of the Fourteenth Amendment or § 1401 persuasively suggests any other interpretation than the unambiguous ordinary meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States advanced by the plaintiffs. Connecticut Nat. Bank v. Germain, 503 U.S. 249, 253–54 (1992) (internal citations and quotations omitted). The plaintiffs have demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits.


“In any event, canons of construction are no more than rules of thumb that help courts determine the meaning of legislation, and in interpreting a statute a court should always turn first to one, cardinal canon before all others. We have stated time and again that courts must presume that a legislature says in a statute what it means and means in a statute what it says there. When the words of a statute are unambiguous, then, this first canon is also the last: judicial inquiry is complete.”

[Winehole23]

the right has gone so far to the right since 2008 that GWB hardly counts as a Republican anymore

Joseph Normand Laplante - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Normand_Laplante)

[ChumpDumper]

the right has gone so far to the right since 2008 that GWB hardly counts as a Republican anymore

Joseph Normand Laplante - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Normand_Laplante)

Yoni said many times W would be on Mount Rushmore.

Yoni doesn't talk about W anymore.

[SnakeBoy]

the right has gone so far to the right since 2008 that GWB hardly counts as a Republican anymore


Thank goodness

[Yonivore]

the right has gone so far to the right since 2008 that GWB hardly counts as a Republican anymore
Yeah, I took him and Cheney off my Christmas Card list a while back.

[Winehole23]

appreciate the confirmation, fellas

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I took him and Cheney off my Christmas Card list a while back.

What made you do that?

[Winehole23]

that y'all are batshit radical

[koriwhat]

Would you support deporting Barron Trump - melania's "anchor baby"

?

Funny how you're all for illegals and have no clue whatsoever about legal immigration. You truly are a fucking retard!

[koriwhat]

appreciate the confirmation, fellas

So far right, yet you and yours align with war mongers like bush and the Cheneys. Glad not to be one of you tbh!